April 17, 2024 • 38 mins
The Masters has cornered its market when it comes to the high-status sports fan but it doesn't really cater to Gen Z. StreamTime Sports host Nick Meacham offers his thoughts on a 'tradition unlike any other' before introducing a panel from SportsPro New York which sought to answer how sports can attract younger generations of fans.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:11):
Welcome back to another edition of Stream Time Sports.
I'm your host, Nick Meacham, CEOat Sports Pro and thrilled to be
back with you after a few intense days following the
action at Masters Golf. Now, a couple of things really
stuck out with me as I was triedmy hardest to dodge daddy duties
to take in the event. Now let's caveat.
But. I would wouldn't really classify
(00:31):
myself as a golfer these days, but definitely used to be and
followed the sport passionately as a kid and only have really
stopped playing of late as I struggled with time commitments.
But let's say I I have a a lightinterest in the sport, but
rarely time to tune in except between some of the majors if I
stumble across it. Which surprisingly the Golf
Channel is one of the top ten key sports channels available
(00:54):
here in Jamaica despite the factthere isn't that many courses.
But anyway, I digress a little. I thought the the event itself
is is a really impressive piece of coverage for those that do
follow it. I know in the uka lot of friends
and colleagues really get into the masters.
Even if they aren't. Major golf fans, I have to say I
was impressed with the coverage of the event, including it's app
(01:15):
that's built by I think it's tech giant IBM and the app
really acts as a nice interactive tool when you're
watching the event. A nice companion, but it also
has the right balance of access to non live, you know,
highlights and other content during the event, even if you
aren't around to to tune into it.
But what was really surprising about the event from a broadcast
(01:37):
perspective was the fact that nothing's really changed over
the. Years other than perhaps extra.
Data points like bull speed and track man on the screen.
And also, one of the things thatkept getting brought up in the
broadcast was really the Live Golf PGA Tour issue, which I was
a bit uncomfortable. The softly negative tones that
kept being displayed by the commentators about the fact that
(02:00):
some of the players were no longer in the, I guess,
invisible anymore because of their lack of exposure, and live
golf. Now that was all very
interesting. I also can't believe that I
don't know if everyone's heard this, but there's so much money
that is actually left on the table by the Masters when it
comes to meteorites. I mean, fun fact for you if you
(02:22):
didn't know already, they give it away free to CBS in return
for an interesting array of extra controls on the broadcast
and content they put in. For example, only four minutes
of ad spots available per hour for CBS to sell, when usually
the load is around I think 10 to15 minutes.
They also have interesting ruleswith the the broadcasters.
(02:45):
Well, they can't talk about attendees or fans, but they have
to call all the people that are attending the event as patrons
when they're talking about them during the broadcast.
And interestingly, now the broadcasters can talk about the
prize purse, which was a ridiculous $18 million for the
entire event. I think the winner, Scottish
Scheffler won something like 3.6alone.
(03:08):
Now estimates range that if theydid sell their media rights to
the highest bidder, they could get something between 1:00 to
200 million a year just for those rights.
But hey, it doesn't always pay to.
Have control or in this. Case It always pays to have
control if you can afford to outside of the event.
There's constant coverage about the fact that they still run the
(03:29):
same prices they've run for decades, with sandwiches selling
for as little as $1.50. If egg and salad sandwiches are
your type of thing now, they're personally not my thing.
But this event is also has an interesting layer to it which
only merchandise is available onsite during the four days
apparently That brings in a reported 60 to $70 million per
(03:51):
year. And look, whilst they might be
keeping these prices low for some sort of noble reason, let's
be clear that this event is an incredible sporting moment once
in a year. But it's not an event built on
serving the younger generation or Gen.
Z fans. It's a status things for the top
money earners in the world. In fact, younger created groups
(04:12):
are the ones really bringing golfers, golf to the masses.
It'd have to be the one celebrated here, not an event
like the Masters who brings in something like I think I saw the
number of 1500 private jets thatweekend arriving at the nearest
airport for the event to attend.And let's put that in
perspective that live golf allowing shorts to be worn in a
(04:33):
tournament was a huge revelation, let alone the change
in format they achieved. The sport of golf needs to sort
of sort out this merger fast andneed to jump on the timing of
the fact that there's so many top players under the age of 35
right now, including I think it's something like the top five
players leading in the final round of the Masters this
weekend. The Masters is clearly about
(04:54):
status, but I'm a very differentera of sports fan and not the
one sports needs to be worried about, and that's fans from Gen.
Z or younger. But fear not golf, because we
might have some ideas. And insights just for you.
Last month I ran a pretty awesome panel on stage at Sports
Pro New York with three of the leading voices around reaching
(05:15):
younger sports fans. I was joined by Katie Amelia
who's the Vice President of Programming for Bleacher Report,
Harry Salma, who's the Global Head of Sports for TikTok, Becky
Kimbrough, who's the Senior VicePresident of Brand Engagement
for the San Antonio Spurs. Now there's a nice range of
content in there about stats backed misconceptions around
Gen. Z and how on earth do you
(05:36):
leverage a once in a lifetime athlete joining your ranks?
And yes, we're talking about Victor, Wenber, Nyama.
We also covered how to build a media offering around creators
and athletes and whether it's worth trying to push fans to
your own platforms or just prioritise being where they are.
And of course, let's not forget the most important word in
(05:57):
sports business, monetisation. Honestly, I think this is one of
my favourite panels I've done, so please do take a listen and
see if you can take away as muchas I did from it.
And before you go anywhere. I will be in London next week
for Sports Pro Live, which is onthe 23rd and 24th of April,
right in the heart of London at the Kia Oval, the cricket ground
for those that aren't familiar with it.
(06:18):
So if you're about, please drop me a line and I would love to
connect with you across the event.
I'll also be running a live recording of the podcast on day
one of the event in the afternoon to keep an eye out for
that on the agenda and look really excited to get back to
London after six months away. But right, that's enough of a
lead in. Without any further ado, it's
time for me to hand over to me speaking with some gurus about
(06:40):
Gen. Z
We've got Hari Sama from. TikTok We've got Becky Kimbrough
from the San Antonio Spurs and Katie O'melia from Bleacher
Report. So very different opinions and
(07:02):
angles into this. Both platforms and from the
sports property. So the best of the best to give
us a take on these things. But let's start with the
question. So firstly, what's 1 stat or
insight that characterizes A Gen.
C sports fan starting with you Katie.
I think the percentage of Gen. Z fans who get their sports
content from social media, I think one example is last week
(07:26):
with all the moves in the NFL, there was someone who commented
on an animation we did of Kirk Cousins with his move to Atlanta
who was like, I didn't even knowthis happened.
So it was interesting that it's both like serving that
entertaining content in the way we packaged it for TikTok, but
also newsworthy of he's now on anew team.
Becky, and I'll build on that bysaying the stat I'd like to
(07:46):
share is 25%, only 25% of Gen. Z ERS engaged with live sport.
So only 25% come to games, only 25% watch live broadcast.
And I think it's just another example of the way that Gen.
Z is sort of disrupting our traditional institutions and
which is a good thing for all ofus to think more creatively.
(08:08):
Especially when the players are Gen.
Z exactly Harrisse. Yeah, it's actually interesting
when Gen. Z becomes the representative
group, right. And that's sort of the the, the
shift we're seeing not just on the consumption side but as you
said the athletes are really like the core and they're all
they're all Gen. Z in fact and and the vast
majority of them and then now trending to Jen Alpha soon and
(08:30):
if you think about what we are seeing on our side and and
you've had two references already.
They're they are not restrained by traditional frameworks.
Right. So this idea of and this has
happened and I don't know if there's a few people who would
recognize this but you might be scrolling through TikTok and
then realize that something had happened in the world of sports
because it's now being actively discussed on the platform.
(08:52):
And then you say, oh wait a minute, I don't even know that
happened. Let me go catch up now.
I mean and the highlight, let mefind something about it because
I didn't even know it happened, because so much is happening in
the world of sport. So for the very first time, the
aggregator component is actuallycoming through social and it's
something that is very natural to this, to this group.
So what's 1 stat or insight thatdemystifies the notion that Gen.
(09:16):
Z have a short attention span again?
Now let's go with you, Katie. Almost 500 million views to the
series. Who did I marry or who the F did
I marry? From Marisa Tisa.
For anyone who's not familiar, it was someone who learned all
the stuff about her husband. You can also find digest of it.
Those now exist, but it was 5010minute long episodes of her
(09:40):
explaining her, actually findingout about what her husband's
background was. And I think that that's a great
example of that's an incredible amount of content that was
consumed by so many people and the series kind of like took
off. And I think that that just if
you then apply that to sports, it's basically taking the
(10:02):
concept of compelling content. It's it's still sticky, it still
resonates. It's both the subject matter
meeting format now where I thinkin the past it was just put the
subject matter on a specific format that people are used to
consuming in television and it will do well.
Now it's trying to take that subject matter and package it in
a way that's native to the way that people are consuming the
content on that specific platform.
(10:23):
So I think a great example of that on the Blueshare report
side is Shack Cam. So for anyone who's not familiar
with that, during All Star Weekend this past year in the
Dunk Contest, we had Shack fitted with an actual like live
camera and we live streamed Shack experiencing the Dunk
contest. It was trending on YouTube, got
(10:44):
millions of views that did incredibly well in the Bleacher
Report app. So I think it's just showing
that if you put the right content out there and if if you
package it in a way that makes sense for that platform, still
going to land and resonate. Hurry jumping to you there.
Yeah. I'd say from my side it's it's
much more a question of what is compelling about the content
(11:05):
that keeps the consumer on. And I'd say this, I guess this
assertion that Gen. Z have a lower attention span as
not as a non Gen. ZI take issue with it.
And the reason I take issue withit is because ultimately the
plethora of optionality that exists today for the consumer
has never existed ever, especially as a sports fan.
(11:27):
And so I would actually hazard to guess every single person in
this room while they're watchinglive sport is doing something
else on their phone or somethingelse like they're not really
committed to the to the long form like version of that in
whatever format that is. And that's not.
I don't think that actually takes away from the experience.
I think some will say it does, but I think you're sort of
(11:48):
making a decision that given whatever's happening, there's a
break in play, there's a lull inthe game.
You now want to either learn more because of what you've
seen. You're learning about players
like Victor and I'm sure, like, we'd love to hear how that's
transitioning and for the Spurs,But like, you may have learned
something about this individual because of what they did on the
court, but you want to learn waymore about them and you can
really only do that through thisother medium.
(12:09):
So to me, it's actually just optionality and how compelling
the content is. When it comes down to almost the
redefinition of what a second screen is these days, Becky for
you what's what demystifies A Gen.
Z? Yeah, I think it's exactly what
these two brilliant humans have said.
I I think you know, a stat that I read is that Gen.
Z spends more than 4 hours a dayon social media.
(12:32):
So there's not a lack of attention.
I think there's a lack of quality Gen.
Z Content and I think the The Who the F Did I Marry series was
a really good just case study and how Gen.
Z does appreciate story and whatthey're really looking for is to
be captivated and as a rights holder that's that's what we're
(12:53):
always trying to do is captivateour audience in the most
interesting way. OK, so what's 1?
Stutter Inside That amplifies the importance of prioritising
Gen. Z fans over the other audience
segments. Harish, start with you.
So for me, I'd say and again I think you mentioned that 25%
(13:13):
stat. It's interesting, when I was at
the at the NBA, we used to say that less than 1% of actual fans
show up in the arena, right? So if you think about what does
fan development look like and hold it what what it was in
previous times, it used to be you would go to the game with
someone who took you to the gameand that was your introduction
(13:33):
to the game. If you were in England, for
example, it would be your local team and that would be sort of
how you'd build a kinship. If that's that holds, which I
think it does, then the reality is that fan development is not
happening at all in that structure.
And so how are fans being birthed?
And so if Gen. Z are not your focus, then I'm,
(13:55):
I'm asking a much bigger question, right?
So I think the answers we've seen are the mediums are where
they are going to, where they are right now, where they're
spending all their time and ultimately how they're being
converted into fans is through these experiences.
So I I mean I don't think it's athey're more important.
I think it's how are you thinking about your fan
development? Katie and I think building on
(14:18):
what both of you have said, I think the amount of time that
they're spending just creates more opportunity for you to
spend time with them and it's are you doing the right things
when they're spending those fourhours on social media to be
reaching them in those moments? Vicky yeah, the other
interesting thing about Gen. Z, at least from my perspective,
(14:39):
you talked about the model of play Watch Go and the sort of
generational fandom being disrupted.
This is also a very, very diverse population.
And I think for that reason it'salso imperative that anybody
looks at their methods of of sort of targeting and and their
levels of authenticity when they're kind of building their
brand. So keep keeping a quick fire.
(15:01):
What's one piece of content thatyou've seen or produced that was
a massive hit to The Gen. Z when it was published?
Maybe Becky is that with you? Yeah.
So I'm actually not going to talk about Wenby here.
We're going to save that for a little later down the road.
But we recently published a highlight of one of our players,
Sandro Mamu Kilishvili, standingat the underneath the basket
(15:26):
during shoot around, heaving thebasketball over his head and
making a full court shot from behind his back.
And that was the most watched content that we've ever
published on TikTok. And I think it's just a symbol
that again, Gen. Z is here to be entertained and
they want to see, you know, sortof these incredible feats.
And that one was that one was big for us.
(15:47):
Katie. Another one that was big for us.
It's it's a series really it's we call it courtside
correspondent but we apply it towe can apply it to ringside.
We've done it at baseball games and what the execution is, is it
basically puts someone who is relevant in other sports, pop
(16:08):
culture. We have Lil Wayne at a
basketball game, so we send likeLil Wayne as an example,
courtside to a game, a basketball game, and then we
film in a very like innovative way.
I think our content team is so creative and so really just like
pushing the boundaries with whatwe can do.
And so using a long lens capture, what is the
(16:30):
conversation of Lil Wayne with his son, Lil Wayne with a
different player? We had Travis Hunter and
shoulder Sanders at a basketballgame and we threw that
mechanism, got Travis saying hello to LeBron.
And like, that's the thing you dream up when you're talking
like creatively about like what's the best version of this
execution? And then what happens is that
(16:50):
content looks so it looks so organic because it is organic,
but we're basically creating theopportunity for that to happen
and then pushing it out across our platforms in a way that then
can take off with a Gen. Z audience.
Harris. Yeah, I'll go in slightly
different direction. I think the, the more obvious
things that would trend on TikTok are these big moments
(17:14):
that you would assume, right? Like the big highlights, the big
whatever sporting achievements and those absolutely have done.
So I think what has been really interesting to see is something
like what CBS has been doing with Collazo and around the
Champions League coverage, specifically around what their
hosts are talking about. There's no actual footage at all
(17:36):
the the banter, that's just between that those hosts.
I mean some of the comments thatwe've seen, which is really
interesting is when you say Jamie Carriger on Galazzo is a
different person than the personhe is when he's in the UK, when
he's actually. And so this is obviously like an
intentional thing. But what's really interesting is
how that's manifesting on TikTok, because now there's a
secondary conversation that's taking place about the
(18:00):
interpersonal, you know, conversations that are taking
place, whether they have a favorite host, whether that host
now is getting, you know, their fair share of of banter or are
they not. And it's so interesting to see
that none of those things have anything to do with rights.
None of those things have anything to do with the
traditional things that I would say hold people back when they
(18:20):
say, well, I don't have access to music, I don't have access to
footage, I don't have access to XY and Z.
Well, guess what? Like this show by itself is
astounding. And so I, I bring that up.
And and again, there's a number of other partners that I would,
I would call out that are doing versions of this.
But I would say that's the one that sort of stands out to me
because it it's so evident because even that that that that
(18:41):
content now has travelled outside of the US and now is all
over the world, specifically in the UK, which I think it's
really hilarious because there'sother coverage there that is
very, very, I would say, different than what you would
expect. I can't get away from that.
Keeps popping up. The algorithm is serving me
well. What's?
1. Thing you're still trying to
work out about a Gen. Z audience, Becky?
(19:02):
Yeah, I think this is a a fairlyobvious one for any team folks
in the room. But there is still I think a
question about how do we take this new model where Gen.
Z Ers are generally coming into their fandom via athlete
personalities and create affinity towards the brands that
we all own and manage. And I think a lot of that boils
(19:24):
down to we have to approach Gen.Z in a very authentic way this
generation because you know they've been raised with cell
phones in their hands. They've had access to the world
from the jump. It's this, they sort of take a
verify then trust approach. So showing up as an authentic
brand I think is critical in building that affinity because
(19:46):
past generations were trust and verify and that model has
changed as well. Appointment viewing.
In a world of algorithms, it's very hard to get someone to see
a piece of content at a very specific time.
So how do you navigate that across platforms I think?
In the Bleacher Report app, you have the beauty of people having
(20:08):
selected like this is what I'm interested in.
So we have the ability to send push notifications based on that
news. So I'm a Yankees fan.
Someone gets traded for the Yankees.
I will get that news on a platform where it's more
algorithmically driven and whereyou have scale there, how do you
notify your audience or people even beyond your audience about
(20:31):
something happening at a very specific time?
And I think that's something that we're continually
experimenting with. One example is on YouTube
leveraging shorts to then use that shorts content there ways
that you can just use the tools within shorts to then push to
the full episode. So trying to leverage the
(20:53):
different tools within other platforms where we don't control
our destiny and we don't have stated interests given by our
user base to then drive people throughout like the full content
funnel of maybe it is starting with the very short bite sized
piece of content. They like that piece of content
you get to funnel them into the longer form piece of content.
Once they consume the longer form piece of content, you know
(21:15):
you could see this at a very specific time in the Bleacher
Report app at 12:00 every Wednesday.
So it's trying to use that full funnel of both content type to
then drive appointment viewership.
So. Really good point around the app
and we've talked a lot mainly about social media activity
through this conversation so far.
So what about the prospect of? The challenge the, the.
(21:38):
The. Tension point between driving
audiences to a platform to an app versus being where they are.
So is serving more and more great content on a platform like
TikTok or do you want to get them to the Spurs app, the
Bleacher Report app, etcetera? Harish, what's your your view
obviously might be slightly biased on this one, but do you
feel like there it really is just about being where they are
(21:59):
or do you think there is a balance to that?
There's absolutely a balance andactually you'll be surprised
that I actually feel that it's much more aligned with the goals
of every one of our publisher partners.
As an example, Tiktok cannot be all things to all fans.
It it doesn't really make sense.Like we have a role to play
(22:20):
which is on the discovery side, a really big role to play.
On the discovery side, I would argue we're really top of funnel
and in many ways you are, your core fans are going to know
where to find you. There's no world in which your
core fan is discovering you through Tiktok.
Like I don't think that's real, but the vast majority of your
casual and non fans don't actually know.
(22:43):
My guess is that you exist or your owned exists and so how do
you get them there? I think that's the journey,
right? And and Katie you were talking
about this earlier which is likethe that that that like funnel
that you create. I think people are too focused
on if I start here, how quickly do I convert them into a fan
versus The journey of convertinga fan can take a long time.
(23:07):
But if you are really methodicaland thoughtful about it, you
actually are going to start in aplace, ideally on TikTok, where
you're going to find a lot of this stuff.
And it's going to be very innocuous because you're going
to either be somebody who likes celebrity content or somebody
who likes fashion content or somebody who likes sport
adjacent content. And that sort of gets you
interested. Then you get interested in a
(23:27):
player like Victor because of whatever it is, his profile, his
story, his background, his ethnicity could be anything.
And then you start to get sort of roped in at the right time.
That fan is sort of going to say, wait a minute, the Spurs
are on and they're on Turner. And I can't wait to figure out
or Bleacher. And I kind of figure out like,
how I can watch this. And so then you have like a
funnel in and it's very natural.It's not forced.
(23:50):
And so from a from a TikTok, it's a platform perspective.
We sort of see ourselves as thatonto it that helps you sort of
engender that interest and then ultimately get you there at the
right time. And then hand it over to Becky.
So you've got them all engage onTikTok.
I mean, where's the balance there for you?
Yeah, and I'm I'm so glad that someone from the platform side,
Harish said. That it takes time to to convert
(24:12):
people and build fandom because that on the property side, I
think we all need to continue, like get it tattooed on your
forehead. Building fandom takes time and I
think the other piece of that isonce they've entered into the
first party ecosystem, it's building value.
So it's really understanding what drives value for this fan
(24:33):
and how is that different than sort of previous generations of
fans. But we can't just have people,
you know, engage with the brand on TikTok and discover the brand
and you know, build more affinity in that way and then
come over to the first party platform and just think that
they're going to give all of their information to us.
Like we have to have some sort of value exchange there before
(24:53):
that happens? Before you jump in, Katie, just
in terms of then driving return on building an audience at scale
on a platform let's say like TikTok where is that value
tangibly created for the business?
Is it just audience and we'll work it out?
Is there a OK first party date is worth X to us as a business
that we that's why we need to drive it or just the commercial
(25:14):
opportunities that come with having a scaled audience for
commercial partners, Yeah. Generally the latter at this
point. I do think you know properties
are still working through getting a little bit more
sophisticated on articulating that exact value for all of the
first party data that we have. And I think there's, you know,
there's the obvious, you purchase a ticket.
(25:37):
OK, well, tickets are limited. You know, our, our venues are
not as big as our social footprint and our and our
digital footprint. But then there's, you know, lots
of ways for properties to monetize those audiences via
retail, via partnerships, and, you know, lots, lots of other
ways. Katie to you there?
Yeah, the What's the balancing point?
(25:58):
Yeah, I think Becky touched on it really well with talking
about value and it's about understanding what is the value
proposition of each platform to the fan.
So and not trying to just replicate and trying to
differentiate in terms of how you're showing up for fans.
So in the Bleacher Report app value proposition, our alerts
(26:19):
are very fast, you follow the specific teams that you want.
So you it's kind of you're choosing your own destiny and
that a way that we have been working to enhance the fan
experience is a live streaming platform where something big
happens with your team. You can go into our app and see
someone talking about that at any given moment.
So last week, really big week inthe NFL, it was our best week
(26:43):
since the NFL Draft last year, which is like Christmas for our
app user base, but but which is really telling.
Like when I'm talking about the different value propositions, if
you think about Bleacher Report and the Bleacher Report app and
stats and scores and news and rumors about who's going where,
that is what the NFL draft is made for.
So that's where we see massive, massive amounts of audience
(27:06):
sitting with us and seeing our live stream that's keeping them
up to date on everything that's happening with the NFL Draft.
So it's really taking that nugget and that insight of like,
OK, that's been Christmas for usfor years.
How can we extrapolate and provide something of value to
sports fans in continuing way that when you have NFL free
agency, that is something where we have live streams
(27:30):
consistently going throughout the app.
So if you don't need to be just a general NFL fan, you can find
your pocket of fandom and you can find a stream that's
specifically talking about the Steelers or you can find a
stream that's specifically talking about the Falcon.
So it's really trying to lean into that differentiated value
proposition that they may not begetting from a platform.
(27:50):
So just on that point, Katie, doyou have to take more of an
events based approach or a moments based approach in how
you're looking more longer term?So the activity between those
big temple Christmas moments, let's call them, are you having
to say, OK, we're doing all these?
Things now. To build up to that point.
So when it's time that everyone wants to come to the platform,
(28:11):
we're ready to really maximise. And yeah, there's extra couple
percentage points of growth because we put all the effort in
beforehand versus trying to be always on.
Exactly. And I think it's then building
repeatable habits from that for when we get to that always on
stage. Now.
We've seen obviously everyone has been following no doubt the
the change in behaviour over thelast, I don't know how many
(28:32):
years now, but the number of years to that athlete, first
creator, first influencer, firstconsumption we're seeing.
And a lot of the examples we've talked about here are very
squarely built around individuals, you know,
individuals or first person typecontent.
Are you seeing Katie back to youfor a second here on?
Are you seeing any definitive? Changes in consumption on your
(28:53):
platform as you've tried to change and align more with
personally in your your content.Totally.
One of the things that we've really been investing in
strategically is giving athletesa voice and giving athletes a
platform. So one example is our show with
Mookie Betts. We came back for Season 2 last
week. He had an episode with Dansby
Swanson, and I think that's a great example of #1.
(29:17):
Mookie is just an incredibly, incredibly talented interview
where it's so natural. It's really, really just special
to see that come to life and talking with these different
people in in the baseball space,which they may not have
historically have had that platform to speak.
And I had always known Dan B Swanson as like, oh, Mal P's
husband. And now from after watching the
(29:40):
episode with Mookie, it just gives you so much more insight
into that athlete and into that athlete's story.
And I think that the way that weneed to approach it
strategically, like going full circle to how we talked about
packaging content and the way the different platforms are
leveraged is and it starts with a live stream in the Bleacher
Report app and then we put that into different clip outs.
(30:03):
So within the app, you don't need to get like super fancy
with it. It's just here's the clip of
what actually happened. But then by the time it gets to
a TikTok or a YouTube short, it's taking that small, specific
moment of him talking about why Kobe's inspirational to him and
trying to figure out what are those little glimmers of of a
theme that I think would make this transcendent to an audience
(30:25):
beyond someone who just cares about baseball or who might
have, might have already known who Mookie Betts is.
So that's really the challenge for us of like as we are working
with these athletes and giving them a voice and a platform, how
do we extend the potential audience of that piece of
content using the different levers at our disposal?
So maximizing, maximizing the piece of content itself.
(30:46):
Right, yes, exactly. Now Becky, to you, you talk
about athletes. You've had a pretty well known
athlete, talked about a lot in the media, pretty much all over
the world from the. Probably a year before you.
Even got to actually start working with him.
So just talk a little bit about the experience of having Victor,
Wayne Manayama as part of the team and what you've had to do
(31:06):
to maximize the opportunity and maybe even some of the
challenges along the way. Could spend about half an hour
talking about that probably, but.
Wemby could be his own conference really, and maybe I'm
a little biased, but I do think he's just an absolutely
incredible, obviously his athletic accomplishments, but as
a human being, he's just an incredible person.
It's interesting on the team side because especially for the
(31:28):
Spurs, we are always a team thatwill prioritize team.
We are not a team that talks about individuals and so this
was a really interesting sort oflandscape for us to to welcome
this absolute superstar into. So we have been very thoughtful
about trying to balance the amount of content from Victor
that we're putting out on our channels to make sure that we
(31:50):
are prioritizing the entire team.
I will say given that this is a Gen.
Z focused panel and Victor is a fresh 20 years old.
When we drafted Victor we saw an8X increase in followers from a
24 hour period year over year. Looking at the draft from the
prior year and the biggest gainsthat we made and that follower
(32:12):
growth was on TikTok. And since then we have seen
incredible engagement in all of the clips that do feature
Victor. I mean, I'm certain everyone in
the room knows that his dunk on New Year's Eve against Boston is
the NBA's most viewed clip of all time.
So it's it's really wild just tothink about the the impact of of
(32:34):
one individual on our content. And how much it transfers to to
the team, right the the exposurethe awareness but your point
before you made a really interesting point about this,
right about that and. I'm conscious of time.
We. We will try and get one or two
questions from the audience in in after this but.
How do you make sure that? All this hysteria, this
excitement, whatever you want tocall it around an athlete,
(32:54):
transcendent athlete and talent like him does make it better as
someone becomes a fan of the club and not just a fan of the
athlete. Because we are seeing a lot of
activity where this class, dozens of examples where fans
just follow these top stars rather than becoming a true fan.
So how do you try and hold on tothose?
Yeah, I think for us, we take, you know, we go back to focusing
on who we are authentically as abrand.
(33:15):
And I think one of the nice things, we're very fortunate
that we prioritize social impactas a brand and as an
organization and serving our community is incredibly
important to the Spurs and always has been.
And I think that really aligns well with the values that Gen.
Z bring into the equation. They are incredibly focused on
equity and inclusion and belonging and that's also
(33:37):
something that as an organization we prioritize and
and we value. So my goal is to help the next
generation of fans understand that while they may be
interested in us because of an athlete, we actually do have a
lot more to offer our fans than than just amazing highlights.
And ultimately, as we've said before, you can't shortcut
(33:58):
fandom, so you can't just make someone a fan of the Spurs
instantly just because of one guy's just popped turned up all
of a sudden. So right.
Do we have any questions for theaudience?
Go for it. Hi Ken Golden from BMG Music.
I was just wondering, given overthe last few years we've seen a
huge position from active fan bases watching the games
(34:18):
themselves, and this is across multiples of sports to being
more involved in the transactional aspects of sports.
You know, a lot of the offseasonstuff, the free agency stuff and
that you see that happening not just within the confines of the
NBA, but you'll see it in the NFL and NHLMLS.
And I was wondering if any of you, and I'm especially
interested in hearing what what Becky has to say about it being
(34:38):
representing of a team. If you've seen any types of
content or types of media that have drawn fans, whether they be
casual or non existent or avid fans from you know, the
transactional aspects of sports.Back into actually watching
games and watching game play andbeing involved in the actual
day-to-day aspects of what's happening in a season rather
(34:59):
than just who's getting signed or who's going to be the next
reagent or where the draft is going to fall.
That's a really good question. And I'll say on the team and
property side of things, we don't dabble in the business of
speculation about who's going where, although I think that's
an extraordinarily fun part of fandom.
I mean, for my money, the NBA isthe best reality show ever.
(35:20):
And I think what we do then is we come in once an athlete has
landed somewhere and we try to tell the story.
We try to help fans in our market and our fans understand
who that person is and and try to generate interest in who they
are before they ever put the uniform on.
So one super quick question because we are out of time from
myself, which we haven't dug into too much.
(35:41):
We talked about a lot about audience and scaling and
engagement. Quick quick answers from all of
you on how do you turn that intogood old hard cash, Katie?
I think you create content that doesn't look sponsored and then
sponsor it. I'll say two things.
One, make better retail, like find designers to collaborate
(36:03):
with. Retail is an extraordinarily
amazing way to build the brand and to create the things that
Gen. Z want to engage with.
So quick example of that, last year we celebrated our 50th
anniversary and we played a gamein the Alamodome, which was
originally built for football. So we opened up the entire place
and had a crowd of over 68,000 people in the building and saw
(36:25):
an increase, a 10% increase in Gen.
Z attendees. So understanding that they build
their social capital by having their digital receipts to prove
that they were there, create theplaces that they want to be.
Couldn't have said it better than these ladies.
They articulated the the core challenge which is there's no
silver bullet. So stop looking for a silver
(36:45):
bullet. The answer is it's a basket.
It's a combination of branded content that doesn't look
branded, It's a combination of affiliate based revenue tied to
e-commerce. It could be ticketing, it could
be a host of things. There's also the live gift
world, which exists, has existedfor a while, and also exists on
on social platforms as well, so there's a bunch of ways to do
(37:06):
it. Well, lots of answers, hopefully
for you all on how to. Tackle the Gen.
Z cracking the code. I've certainly taken a lot from
it, so a big thank you to our panelists Katie, Becky and
Harish. Thank you everyone.
Before you go, myself and Nick would just like to thank you for
tuning into this episode of Stream Time.
If you found the episode insightful, please make sure you
(37:26):
like and subscribe on whichever platform you listen to.
As a growing podcast, we'd greatly appreciate your support
and sharing or writing a review.Ultimately want this podcast to
not only entertain you, but alsohopefully help you navigate the
digital sports landscape. If you have any feedback on
previous episodes or any topics and speakers you'd like to hear
from in the future, please don'thesitate to reach out.
You can find myself and Nick Meacham on LinkedIn or on
(37:49):
Twitter. My Twitter handle is at Sports
Pro Chris. One Nick can be found at Sports
Pro. Nick, of course, if you want to
stay fully up to date on the sports business news cycle,
please make sure to visit the Sports Pro Media website or sign
up to one of our several newsletters to make sure you
don't miss anything. Once again, thank you and we
look forward to you joining us next week on the Streamtime
Podcast.
Welcome back to another edition of Stream Time Sports.
I'm your host, Nick Meacham, CEOat Sports Pro and thrilled to be
back with you after a few intense days following the
action at Masters Golf. Now, a couple of things really
stuck out with me as I was triedmy hardest to dodge daddy duties
to take in the event. Now let's caveat.
But. I would wouldn't really classify
(00:31):
myself as a golfer these days, but definitely used to be and
followed the sport passionately as a kid and only have really
stopped playing of late as I struggled with time commitments.
But let's say I I have a a lightinterest in the sport, but
rarely time to tune in except between some of the majors if I
stumble across it. Which surprisingly the Golf
Channel is one of the top ten key sports channels available
(00:54):
here in Jamaica despite the factthere isn't that many courses.
But anyway, I digress a little. I thought the the event itself
is is a really impressive piece of coverage for those that do
follow it. I know in the uka lot of friends
and colleagues really get into the masters.
Even if they aren't. Major golf fans, I have to say I
was impressed with the coverage of the event, including it's app
(01:15):
that's built by I think it's tech giant IBM and the app
really acts as a nice interactive tool when you're
watching the event. A nice companion, but it also
has the right balance of access to non live, you know,
highlights and other content during the event, even if you
aren't around to to tune into it.
But what was really surprising about the event from a broadcast
(01:37):
perspective was the fact that nothing's really changed over
the. Years other than perhaps extra.
Data points like bull speed and track man on the screen.
And also, one of the things thatkept getting brought up in the
broadcast was really the Live Golf PGA Tour issue, which I was
a bit uncomfortable. The softly negative tones that
kept being displayed by the commentators about the fact that
(02:00):
some of the players were no longer in the, I guess,
invisible anymore because of their lack of exposure, and live
golf. Now that was all very
interesting. I also can't believe that I
don't know if everyone's heard this, but there's so much money
that is actually left on the table by the Masters when it
comes to meteorites. I mean, fun fact for you if you
(02:22):
didn't know already, they give it away free to CBS in return
for an interesting array of extra controls on the broadcast
and content they put in. For example, only four minutes
of ad spots available per hour for CBS to sell, when usually
the load is around I think 10 to15 minutes.
They also have interesting ruleswith the the broadcasters.
(02:45):
Well, they can't talk about attendees or fans, but they have
to call all the people that are attending the event as patrons
when they're talking about them during the broadcast.
And interestingly, now the broadcasters can talk about the
prize purse, which was a ridiculous $18 million for the
entire event. I think the winner, Scottish
Scheffler won something like 3.6alone.
(03:08):
Now estimates range that if theydid sell their media rights to
the highest bidder, they could get something between 1:00 to
200 million a year just for those rights.
But hey, it doesn't always pay to.
Have control or in this. Case It always pays to have
control if you can afford to outside of the event.
There's constant coverage about the fact that they still run the
(03:29):
same prices they've run for decades, with sandwiches selling
for as little as $1.50. If egg and salad sandwiches are
your type of thing now, they're personally not my thing.
But this event is also has an interesting layer to it which
only merchandise is available onsite during the four days
apparently That brings in a reported 60 to $70 million per
(03:51):
year. And look, whilst they might be
keeping these prices low for some sort of noble reason, let's
be clear that this event is an incredible sporting moment once
in a year. But it's not an event built on
serving the younger generation or Gen.
Z fans. It's a status things for the top
money earners in the world. In fact, younger created groups
(04:12):
are the ones really bringing golfers, golf to the masses.
It'd have to be the one celebrated here, not an event
like the Masters who brings in something like I think I saw the
number of 1500 private jets thatweekend arriving at the nearest
airport for the event to attend.And let's put that in
perspective that live golf allowing shorts to be worn in a
(04:33):
tournament was a huge revelation, let alone the change
in format they achieved. The sport of golf needs to sort
of sort out this merger fast andneed to jump on the timing of
the fact that there's so many top players under the age of 35
right now, including I think it's something like the top five
players leading in the final round of the Masters this
weekend. The Masters is clearly about
(04:54):
status, but I'm a very differentera of sports fan and not the
one sports needs to be worried about, and that's fans from Gen.
Z or younger. But fear not golf, because we
might have some ideas. And insights just for you.
Last month I ran a pretty awesome panel on stage at Sports
Pro New York with three of the leading voices around reaching
(05:15):
younger sports fans. I was joined by Katie Amelia
who's the Vice President of Programming for Bleacher Report,
Harry Salma, who's the Global Head of Sports for TikTok, Becky
Kimbrough, who's the Senior VicePresident of Brand Engagement
for the San Antonio Spurs. Now there's a nice range of
content in there about stats backed misconceptions around
Gen. Z and how on earth do you
(05:36):
leverage a once in a lifetime athlete joining your ranks?
And yes, we're talking about Victor, Wenber, Nyama.
We also covered how to build a media offering around creators
and athletes and whether it's worth trying to push fans to
your own platforms or just prioritise being where they are.
And of course, let's not forget the most important word in
(05:57):
sports business, monetisation. Honestly, I think this is one of
my favourite panels I've done, so please do take a listen and
see if you can take away as muchas I did from it.
And before you go anywhere. I will be in London next week
for Sports Pro Live, which is onthe 23rd and 24th of April,
right in the heart of London at the Kia Oval, the cricket ground
for those that aren't familiar with it.
(06:18):
So if you're about, please drop me a line and I would love to
connect with you across the event.
I'll also be running a live recording of the podcast on day
one of the event in the afternoon to keep an eye out for
that on the agenda and look really excited to get back to
London after six months away. But right, that's enough of a
lead in. Without any further ado, it's
time for me to hand over to me speaking with some gurus about
(06:40):
Gen. Z
We've got Hari Sama from. TikTok We've got Becky Kimbrough
from the San Antonio Spurs and Katie O'melia from Bleacher
Report. So very different opinions and
(07:02):
angles into this. Both platforms and from the
sports property. So the best of the best to give
us a take on these things. But let's start with the
question. So firstly, what's 1 stat or
insight that characterizes A Gen.
C sports fan starting with you Katie.
I think the percentage of Gen. Z fans who get their sports
content from social media, I think one example is last week
(07:26):
with all the moves in the NFL, there was someone who commented
on an animation we did of Kirk Cousins with his move to Atlanta
who was like, I didn't even knowthis happened.
So it was interesting that it's both like serving that
entertaining content in the way we packaged it for TikTok, but
also newsworthy of he's now on anew team.
Becky, and I'll build on that bysaying the stat I'd like to
(07:46):
share is 25%, only 25% of Gen. Z ERS engaged with live sport.
So only 25% come to games, only 25% watch live broadcast.
And I think it's just another example of the way that Gen.
Z is sort of disrupting our traditional institutions and
which is a good thing for all ofus to think more creatively.
(08:08):
Especially when the players are Gen.
Z exactly Harrisse. Yeah, it's actually interesting
when Gen. Z becomes the representative
group, right. And that's sort of the the, the
shift we're seeing not just on the consumption side but as you
said the athletes are really like the core and they're all
they're all Gen. Z in fact and and the vast
majority of them and then now trending to Jen Alpha soon and
(08:30):
if you think about what we are seeing on our side and and
you've had two references already.
They're they are not restrained by traditional frameworks.
Right. So this idea of and this has
happened and I don't know if there's a few people who would
recognize this but you might be scrolling through TikTok and
then realize that something had happened in the world of sports
because it's now being actively discussed on the platform.
(08:52):
And then you say, oh wait a minute, I don't even know that
happened. Let me go catch up now.
I mean and the highlight, let mefind something about it because
I didn't even know it happened, because so much is happening in
the world of sport. So for the very first time, the
aggregator component is actuallycoming through social and it's
something that is very natural to this, to this group.
So what's 1 stat or insight thatdemystifies the notion that Gen.
(09:16):
Z have a short attention span again?
Now let's go with you, Katie. Almost 500 million views to the
series. Who did I marry or who the F did
I marry? From Marisa Tisa.
For anyone who's not familiar, it was someone who learned all
the stuff about her husband. You can also find digest of it.
Those now exist, but it was 5010minute long episodes of her
(09:40):
explaining her, actually findingout about what her husband's
background was. And I think that that's a great
example of that's an incredible amount of content that was
consumed by so many people and the series kind of like took
off. And I think that that just if
you then apply that to sports, it's basically taking the
(10:02):
concept of compelling content. It's it's still sticky, it still
resonates. It's both the subject matter
meeting format now where I thinkin the past it was just put the
subject matter on a specific format that people are used to
consuming in television and it will do well.
Now it's trying to take that subject matter and package it in
a way that's native to the way that people are consuming the
content on that specific platform.
(10:23):
So I think a great example of that on the Blueshare report
side is Shack Cam. So for anyone who's not familiar
with that, during All Star Weekend this past year in the
Dunk Contest, we had Shack fitted with an actual like live
camera and we live streamed Shack experiencing the Dunk
contest. It was trending on YouTube, got
(10:44):
millions of views that did incredibly well in the Bleacher
Report app. So I think it's just showing
that if you put the right content out there and if if you
package it in a way that makes sense for that platform, still
going to land and resonate. Hurry jumping to you there.
Yeah. I'd say from my side it's it's
much more a question of what is compelling about the content
(11:05):
that keeps the consumer on. And I'd say this, I guess this
assertion that Gen. Z have a lower attention span as
not as a non Gen. ZI take issue with it.
And the reason I take issue withit is because ultimately the
plethora of optionality that exists today for the consumer
has never existed ever, especially as a sports fan.
(11:27):
And so I would actually hazard to guess every single person in
this room while they're watchinglive sport is doing something
else on their phone or somethingelse like they're not really
committed to the to the long form like version of that in
whatever format that is. And that's not.
I don't think that actually takes away from the experience.
I think some will say it does, but I think you're sort of
(11:48):
making a decision that given whatever's happening, there's a
break in play, there's a lull inthe game.
You now want to either learn more because of what you've
seen. You're learning about players
like Victor and I'm sure, like, we'd love to hear how that's
transitioning and for the Spurs,But like, you may have learned
something about this individual because of what they did on the
court, but you want to learn waymore about them and you can
really only do that through thisother medium.
(12:09):
So to me, it's actually just optionality and how compelling
the content is. When it comes down to almost the
redefinition of what a second screen is these days, Becky for
you what's what demystifies A Gen.
Z? Yeah, I think it's exactly what
these two brilliant humans have said.
I I think you know, a stat that I read is that Gen.
Z spends more than 4 hours a dayon social media.
(12:32):
So there's not a lack of attention.
I think there's a lack of quality Gen.
Z Content and I think the The Who the F Did I Marry series was
a really good just case study and how Gen.
Z does appreciate story and whatthey're really looking for is to
be captivated and as a rights holder that's that's what we're
(12:53):
always trying to do is captivateour audience in the most
interesting way. OK, so what's 1?
Stutter Inside That amplifies the importance of prioritising
Gen. Z fans over the other audience
segments. Harish, start with you.
So for me, I'd say and again I think you mentioned that 25%
(13:13):
stat. It's interesting, when I was at
the at the NBA, we used to say that less than 1% of actual fans
show up in the arena, right? So if you think about what does
fan development look like and hold it what what it was in
previous times, it used to be you would go to the game with
someone who took you to the gameand that was your introduction
(13:33):
to the game. If you were in England, for
example, it would be your local team and that would be sort of
how you'd build a kinship. If that's that holds, which I
think it does, then the reality is that fan development is not
happening at all in that structure.
And so how are fans being birthed?
And so if Gen. Z are not your focus, then I'm,
(13:55):
I'm asking a much bigger question, right?
So I think the answers we've seen are the mediums are where
they are going to, where they are right now, where they're
spending all their time and ultimately how they're being
converted into fans is through these experiences.
So I I mean I don't think it's athey're more important.
I think it's how are you thinking about your fan
development? Katie and I think building on
(14:18):
what both of you have said, I think the amount of time that
they're spending just creates more opportunity for you to
spend time with them and it's are you doing the right things
when they're spending those fourhours on social media to be
reaching them in those moments? Vicky yeah, the other
interesting thing about Gen. Z, at least from my perspective,
(14:39):
you talked about the model of play Watch Go and the sort of
generational fandom being disrupted.
This is also a very, very diverse population.
And I think for that reason it'salso imperative that anybody
looks at their methods of of sort of targeting and and their
levels of authenticity when they're kind of building their
brand. So keep keeping a quick fire.
(15:01):
What's one piece of content thatyou've seen or produced that was
a massive hit to The Gen. Z when it was published?
Maybe Becky is that with you? Yeah.
So I'm actually not going to talk about Wenby here.
We're going to save that for a little later down the road.
But we recently published a highlight of one of our players,
Sandro Mamu Kilishvili, standingat the underneath the basket
(15:26):
during shoot around, heaving thebasketball over his head and
making a full court shot from behind his back.
And that was the most watched content that we've ever
published on TikTok. And I think it's just a symbol
that again, Gen. Z is here to be entertained and
they want to see, you know, sortof these incredible feats.
And that one was that one was big for us.
(15:47):
Katie. Another one that was big for us.
It's it's a series really it's we call it courtside
correspondent but we apply it towe can apply it to ringside.
We've done it at baseball games and what the execution is, is it
basically puts someone who is relevant in other sports, pop
(16:08):
culture. We have Lil Wayne at a
basketball game, so we send likeLil Wayne as an example,
courtside to a game, a basketball game, and then we
film in a very like innovative way.
I think our content team is so creative and so really just like
pushing the boundaries with whatwe can do.
And so using a long lens capture, what is the
(16:30):
conversation of Lil Wayne with his son, Lil Wayne with a
different player? We had Travis Hunter and
shoulder Sanders at a basketballgame and we threw that
mechanism, got Travis saying hello to LeBron.
And like, that's the thing you dream up when you're talking
like creatively about like what's the best version of this
execution? And then what happens is that
(16:50):
content looks so it looks so organic because it is organic,
but we're basically creating theopportunity for that to happen
and then pushing it out across our platforms in a way that then
can take off with a Gen. Z audience.
Harris. Yeah, I'll go in slightly
different direction. I think the, the more obvious
things that would trend on TikTok are these big moments
(17:14):
that you would assume, right? Like the big highlights, the big
whatever sporting achievements and those absolutely have done.
So I think what has been really interesting to see is something
like what CBS has been doing with Collazo and around the
Champions League coverage, specifically around what their
hosts are talking about. There's no actual footage at all
(17:36):
the the banter, that's just between that those hosts.
I mean some of the comments thatwe've seen, which is really
interesting is when you say Jamie Carriger on Galazzo is a
different person than the personhe is when he's in the UK, when
he's actually. And so this is obviously like an
intentional thing. But what's really interesting is
how that's manifesting on TikTok, because now there's a
secondary conversation that's taking place about the
(18:00):
interpersonal, you know, conversations that are taking
place, whether they have a favorite host, whether that host
now is getting, you know, their fair share of of banter or are
they not. And it's so interesting to see
that none of those things have anything to do with rights.
None of those things have anything to do with the
traditional things that I would say hold people back when they
(18:20):
say, well, I don't have access to music, I don't have access to
footage, I don't have access to XY and Z.
Well, guess what? Like this show by itself is
astounding. And so I, I bring that up.
And and again, there's a number of other partners that I would,
I would call out that are doing versions of this.
But I would say that's the one that sort of stands out to me
because it it's so evident because even that that that that
(18:41):
content now has travelled outside of the US and now is all
over the world, specifically in the UK, which I think it's
really hilarious because there'sother coverage there that is
very, very, I would say, different than what you would
expect. I can't get away from that.
Keeps popping up. The algorithm is serving me
well. What's?
1. Thing you're still trying to
work out about a Gen. Z audience, Becky?
(19:02):
Yeah, I think this is a a fairlyobvious one for any team folks
in the room. But there is still I think a
question about how do we take this new model where Gen.
Z Ers are generally coming into their fandom via athlete
personalities and create affinity towards the brands that
we all own and manage. And I think a lot of that boils
(19:24):
down to we have to approach Gen.Z in a very authentic way this
generation because you know they've been raised with cell
phones in their hands. They've had access to the world
from the jump. It's this, they sort of take a
verify then trust approach. So showing up as an authentic
brand I think is critical in building that affinity because
(19:46):
past generations were trust and verify and that model has
changed as well. Appointment viewing.
In a world of algorithms, it's very hard to get someone to see
a piece of content at a very specific time.
So how do you navigate that across platforms I think?
In the Bleacher Report app, you have the beauty of people having
(20:08):
selected like this is what I'm interested in.
So we have the ability to send push notifications based on that
news. So I'm a Yankees fan.
Someone gets traded for the Yankees.
I will get that news on a platform where it's more
algorithmically driven and whereyou have scale there, how do you
notify your audience or people even beyond your audience about
(20:31):
something happening at a very specific time?
And I think that's something that we're continually
experimenting with. One example is on YouTube
leveraging shorts to then use that shorts content there ways
that you can just use the tools within shorts to then push to
the full episode. So trying to leverage the
(20:53):
different tools within other platforms where we don't control
our destiny and we don't have stated interests given by our
user base to then drive people throughout like the full content
funnel of maybe it is starting with the very short bite sized
piece of content. They like that piece of content
you get to funnel them into the longer form piece of content.
Once they consume the longer form piece of content, you know
(21:15):
you could see this at a very specific time in the Bleacher
Report app at 12:00 every Wednesday.
So it's trying to use that full funnel of both content type to
then drive appointment viewership.
So. Really good point around the app
and we've talked a lot mainly about social media activity
through this conversation so far.
So what about the prospect of? The challenge the, the.
(21:38):
The. Tension point between driving
audiences to a platform to an app versus being where they are.
So is serving more and more great content on a platform like
TikTok or do you want to get them to the Spurs app, the
Bleacher Report app, etcetera? Harish, what's your your view
obviously might be slightly biased on this one, but do you
feel like there it really is just about being where they are
(21:59):
or do you think there is a balance to that?
There's absolutely a balance andactually you'll be surprised
that I actually feel that it's much more aligned with the goals
of every one of our publisher partners.
As an example, Tiktok cannot be all things to all fans.
It it doesn't really make sense.Like we have a role to play
(22:20):
which is on the discovery side, a really big role to play.
On the discovery side, I would argue we're really top of funnel
and in many ways you are, your core fans are going to know
where to find you. There's no world in which your
core fan is discovering you through Tiktok.
Like I don't think that's real, but the vast majority of your
casual and non fans don't actually know.
(22:43):
My guess is that you exist or your owned exists and so how do
you get them there? I think that's the journey,
right? And and Katie you were talking
about this earlier which is likethe that that that like funnel
that you create. I think people are too focused
on if I start here, how quickly do I convert them into a fan
versus The journey of convertinga fan can take a long time.
(23:07):
But if you are really methodicaland thoughtful about it, you
actually are going to start in aplace, ideally on TikTok, where
you're going to find a lot of this stuff.
And it's going to be very innocuous because you're going
to either be somebody who likes celebrity content or somebody
who likes fashion content or somebody who likes sport
adjacent content. And that sort of gets you
interested. Then you get interested in a
(23:27):
player like Victor because of whatever it is, his profile, his
story, his background, his ethnicity could be anything.
And then you start to get sort of roped in at the right time.
That fan is sort of going to say, wait a minute, the Spurs
are on and they're on Turner. And I can't wait to figure out
or Bleacher. And I kind of figure out like,
how I can watch this. And so then you have like a
funnel in and it's very natural.It's not forced.
(23:50):
And so from a from a TikTok, it's a platform perspective.
We sort of see ourselves as thatonto it that helps you sort of
engender that interest and then ultimately get you there at the
right time. And then hand it over to Becky.
So you've got them all engage onTikTok.
I mean, where's the balance there for you?
Yeah, and I'm I'm so glad that someone from the platform side,
Harish said. That it takes time to to convert
(24:12):
people and build fandom because that on the property side, I
think we all need to continue, like get it tattooed on your
forehead. Building fandom takes time and I
think the other piece of that isonce they've entered into the
first party ecosystem, it's building value.
So it's really understanding what drives value for this fan
(24:33):
and how is that different than sort of previous generations of
fans. But we can't just have people,
you know, engage with the brand on TikTok and discover the brand
and you know, build more affinity in that way and then
come over to the first party platform and just think that
they're going to give all of their information to us.
Like we have to have some sort of value exchange there before
(24:53):
that happens? Before you jump in, Katie, just
in terms of then driving return on building an audience at scale
on a platform let's say like TikTok where is that value
tangibly created for the business?
Is it just audience and we'll work it out?
Is there a OK first party date is worth X to us as a business
that we that's why we need to drive it or just the commercial
(25:14):
opportunities that come with having a scaled audience for
commercial partners, Yeah. Generally the latter at this
point. I do think you know properties
are still working through getting a little bit more
sophisticated on articulating that exact value for all of the
first party data that we have. And I think there's, you know,
there's the obvious, you purchase a ticket.
(25:37):
OK, well, tickets are limited. You know, our, our venues are
not as big as our social footprint and our and our
digital footprint. But then there's, you know, lots
of ways for properties to monetize those audiences via
retail, via partnerships, and, you know, lots, lots of other
ways. Katie to you there?
Yeah, the What's the balancing point?
(25:58):
Yeah, I think Becky touched on it really well with talking
about value and it's about understanding what is the value
proposition of each platform to the fan.
So and not trying to just replicate and trying to
differentiate in terms of how you're showing up for fans.
So in the Bleacher Report app value proposition, our alerts
(26:19):
are very fast, you follow the specific teams that you want.
So you it's kind of you're choosing your own destiny and
that a way that we have been working to enhance the fan
experience is a live streaming platform where something big
happens with your team. You can go into our app and see
someone talking about that at any given moment.
So last week, really big week inthe NFL, it was our best week
(26:43):
since the NFL Draft last year, which is like Christmas for our
app user base, but but which is really telling.
Like when I'm talking about the different value propositions, if
you think about Bleacher Report and the Bleacher Report app and
stats and scores and news and rumors about who's going where,
that is what the NFL draft is made for.
So that's where we see massive, massive amounts of audience
(27:06):
sitting with us and seeing our live stream that's keeping them
up to date on everything that's happening with the NFL Draft.
So it's really taking that nugget and that insight of like,
OK, that's been Christmas for usfor years.
How can we extrapolate and provide something of value to
sports fans in continuing way that when you have NFL free
agency, that is something where we have live streams
(27:30):
consistently going throughout the app.
So if you don't need to be just a general NFL fan, you can find
your pocket of fandom and you can find a stream that's
specifically talking about the Steelers or you can find a
stream that's specifically talking about the Falcon.
So it's really trying to lean into that differentiated value
proposition that they may not begetting from a platform.
(27:50):
So just on that point, Katie, doyou have to take more of an
events based approach or a moments based approach in how
you're looking more longer term?So the activity between those
big temple Christmas moments, let's call them, are you having
to say, OK, we're doing all these?
Things now. To build up to that point.
So when it's time that everyone wants to come to the platform,
(28:11):
we're ready to really maximise. And yeah, there's extra couple
percentage points of growth because we put all the effort in
beforehand versus trying to be always on.
Exactly. And I think it's then building
repeatable habits from that for when we get to that always on
stage. Now.
We've seen obviously everyone has been following no doubt the
the change in behaviour over thelast, I don't know how many
(28:32):
years now, but the number of years to that athlete, first
creator, first influencer, firstconsumption we're seeing.
And a lot of the examples we've talked about here are very
squarely built around individuals, you know,
individuals or first person typecontent.
Are you seeing Katie back to youfor a second here on?
Are you seeing any definitive? Changes in consumption on your
(28:53):
platform as you've tried to change and align more with
personally in your your content.Totally.
One of the things that we've really been investing in
strategically is giving athletesa voice and giving athletes a
platform. So one example is our show with
Mookie Betts. We came back for Season 2 last
week. He had an episode with Dansby
Swanson, and I think that's a great example of #1.
(29:17):
Mookie is just an incredibly, incredibly talented interview
where it's so natural. It's really, really just special
to see that come to life and talking with these different
people in in the baseball space,which they may not have
historically have had that platform to speak.
And I had always known Dan B Swanson as like, oh, Mal P's
husband. And now from after watching the
(29:40):
episode with Mookie, it just gives you so much more insight
into that athlete and into that athlete's story.
And I think that the way that weneed to approach it
strategically, like going full circle to how we talked about
packaging content and the way the different platforms are
leveraged is and it starts with a live stream in the Bleacher
Report app and then we put that into different clip outs.
(30:03):
So within the app, you don't need to get like super fancy
with it. It's just here's the clip of
what actually happened. But then by the time it gets to
a TikTok or a YouTube short, it's taking that small, specific
moment of him talking about why Kobe's inspirational to him and
trying to figure out what are those little glimmers of of a
theme that I think would make this transcendent to an audience
(30:25):
beyond someone who just cares about baseball or who might
have, might have already known who Mookie Betts is.
So that's really the challenge for us of like as we are working
with these athletes and giving them a voice and a platform, how
do we extend the potential audience of that piece of
content using the different levers at our disposal?
So maximizing, maximizing the piece of content itself.
(30:46):
Right, yes, exactly. Now Becky, to you, you talk
about athletes. You've had a pretty well known
athlete, talked about a lot in the media, pretty much all over
the world from the. Probably a year before you.
Even got to actually start working with him.
So just talk a little bit about the experience of having Victor,
Wayne Manayama as part of the team and what you've had to do
(31:06):
to maximize the opportunity and maybe even some of the
challenges along the way. Could spend about half an hour
talking about that probably, but.
Wemby could be his own conference really, and maybe I'm
a little biased, but I do think he's just an absolutely
incredible, obviously his athletic accomplishments, but as
a human being, he's just an incredible person.
It's interesting on the team side because especially for the
(31:28):
Spurs, we are always a team thatwill prioritize team.
We are not a team that talks about individuals and so this
was a really interesting sort oflandscape for us to to welcome
this absolute superstar into. So we have been very thoughtful
about trying to balance the amount of content from Victor
that we're putting out on our channels to make sure that we
(31:50):
are prioritizing the entire team.
I will say given that this is a Gen.
Z focused panel and Victor is a fresh 20 years old.
When we drafted Victor we saw an8X increase in followers from a
24 hour period year over year. Looking at the draft from the
prior year and the biggest gainsthat we made and that follower
(32:12):
growth was on TikTok. And since then we have seen
incredible engagement in all of the clips that do feature
Victor. I mean, I'm certain everyone in
the room knows that his dunk on New Year's Eve against Boston is
the NBA's most viewed clip of all time.
So it's it's really wild just tothink about the the impact of of
(32:34):
one individual on our content. And how much it transfers to to
the team, right the the exposurethe awareness but your point
before you made a really interesting point about this,
right about that and. I'm conscious of time.
We. We will try and get one or two
questions from the audience in in after this but.
How do you make sure that? All this hysteria, this
excitement, whatever you want tocall it around an athlete,
(32:54):
transcendent athlete and talent like him does make it better as
someone becomes a fan of the club and not just a fan of the
athlete. Because we are seeing a lot of
activity where this class, dozens of examples where fans
just follow these top stars rather than becoming a true fan.
So how do you try and hold on tothose?
Yeah, I think for us, we take, you know, we go back to focusing
on who we are authentically as abrand.
(33:15):
And I think one of the nice things, we're very fortunate
that we prioritize social impactas a brand and as an
organization and serving our community is incredibly
important to the Spurs and always has been.
And I think that really aligns well with the values that Gen.
Z bring into the equation. They are incredibly focused on
equity and inclusion and belonging and that's also
(33:37):
something that as an organization we prioritize and
and we value. So my goal is to help the next
generation of fans understand that while they may be
interested in us because of an athlete, we actually do have a
lot more to offer our fans than than just amazing highlights.
And ultimately, as we've said before, you can't shortcut
(33:58):
fandom, so you can't just make someone a fan of the Spurs
instantly just because of one guy's just popped turned up all
of a sudden. So right.
Do we have any questions for theaudience?
Go for it. Hi Ken Golden from BMG Music.
I was just wondering, given overthe last few years we've seen a
huge position from active fan bases watching the games
(34:18):
themselves, and this is across multiples of sports to being
more involved in the transactional aspects of sports.
You know, a lot of the offseasonstuff, the free agency stuff and
that you see that happening not just within the confines of the
NBA, but you'll see it in the NFL and NHLMLS.
And I was wondering if any of you, and I'm especially
interested in hearing what what Becky has to say about it being
(34:38):
representing of a team. If you've seen any types of
content or types of media that have drawn fans, whether they be
casual or non existent or avid fans from you know, the
transactional aspects of sports.Back into actually watching
games and watching game play andbeing involved in the actual
day-to-day aspects of what's happening in a season rather
(34:59):
than just who's getting signed or who's going to be the next
reagent or where the draft is going to fall.
That's a really good question. And I'll say on the team and
property side of things, we don't dabble in the business of
speculation about who's going where, although I think that's
an extraordinarily fun part of fandom.
I mean, for my money, the NBA isthe best reality show ever.
(35:20):
And I think what we do then is we come in once an athlete has
landed somewhere and we try to tell the story.
We try to help fans in our market and our fans understand
who that person is and and try to generate interest in who they
are before they ever put the uniform on.
So one super quick question because we are out of time from
myself, which we haven't dug into too much.
(35:41):
We talked about a lot about audience and scaling and
engagement. Quick quick answers from all of
you on how do you turn that intogood old hard cash, Katie?
I think you create content that doesn't look sponsored and then
sponsor it. I'll say two things.
One, make better retail, like find designers to collaborate
(36:03):
with. Retail is an extraordinarily
amazing way to build the brand and to create the things that
Gen. Z want to engage with.
So quick example of that, last year we celebrated our 50th
anniversary and we played a gamein the Alamodome, which was
originally built for football. So we opened up the entire place
and had a crowd of over 68,000 people in the building and saw
(36:25):
an increase, a 10% increase in Gen.
Z attendees. So understanding that they build
their social capital by having their digital receipts to prove
that they were there, create theplaces that they want to be.
Couldn't have said it better than these ladies.
They articulated the the core challenge which is there's no
silver bullet. So stop looking for a silver
(36:45):
bullet. The answer is it's a basket.
It's a combination of branded content that doesn't look
branded, It's a combination of affiliate based revenue tied to
e-commerce. It could be ticketing, it could
be a host of things. There's also the live gift
world, which exists, has existedfor a while, and also exists on
on social platforms as well, so there's a bunch of ways to do
(37:06):
it. Well, lots of answers, hopefully
for you all on how to. Tackle the Gen.
Z cracking the code. I've certainly taken a lot from
it, so a big thank you to our panelists Katie, Becky and
Harish. Thank you everyone.
Before you go, myself and Nick would just like to thank you for
tuning into this episode of Stream Time.
If you found the episode insightful, please make sure you
(37:26):
like and subscribe on whichever platform you listen to.
As a growing podcast, we'd greatly appreciate your support
and sharing or writing a review.Ultimately want this podcast to
not only entertain you, but alsohopefully help you navigate the
digital sports landscape. If you have any feedback on
previous episodes or any topics and speakers you'd like to hear
from in the future, please don'thesitate to reach out.
You can find myself and Nick Meacham on LinkedIn or on
(37:49):
Twitter. My Twitter handle is at Sports
Pro Chris. One Nick can be found at Sports
Pro. Nick, of course, if you want to
stay fully up to date on the sports business news cycle,
please make sure to visit the Sports Pro Media website or sign
up to one of our several newsletters to make sure you
don't miss anything. Once again, thank you and we
look forward to you joining us next week on the Streamtime
Podcast.
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