How are teams like the Buffalo Bills saving $120,000 a year while delivering content faster than ever? In this episode of StreamTime Sports, co-hosts Nick Meacham and Chris Stone are joined by Andrew Fingerman, CEO of PhotoShelter, to explain how AI is revolutionizing content creation. The conversation dives into how sports organisations can turn content chaos into commercial value.
Key Points:
- How can teams save money by automating content production and reinvest their resources?
- What does it take to get gameday content from camera to social media in under 60 seconds?
- How are teams empowering athletes to become real-time content distributors — and why does it matter?
- Why is your content archive one of the most valuable tools for fan engagement and long-term ROI?
- How are sports organisations turning everyday content into sponsor-ready, revenue-generating assets?
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:10):
Hello everyone and welcome back to the next episode of Stream
Time Sports. My name is Chris Stone, the
community lead, joined as alwaysby our CEO, Nick Meacham.
Now Nick, we do have another guest with us today, so I won't
spend too much time on it, but I'm conscious of the fact we are
recording this podcast the day after the Club World Cup final.
We might not get to talk about it again because I'm going on
holiday next week. Just really quickly, Nick, did
you get to watch it? Any top line thoughts because I
(00:31):
got a couple. OK, well I did TuneIn, but I
tuned in at basically a two. It was already 2 nil by that
time. So in the immediately I'm like,
oh, OK, well I'll I'll stick it out for a bit.
Then I turned away for a bit because I had it on my phone
because I didn't have any designaccess on any of my smart
devices in the house. And then there was another goal
and I missed that. So it was a three nil down.
(00:52):
I'd missed the all the action. So I, I basically gave up pretty
quickly after that and started keeping another eye on the
Lionesses in the EUR happening in Switzerland after Wimbledon
earlier. So lots to consume over a few
hours. But I sadly, I, I think that
should want to make one obviously for business purposes
(01:13):
as well as leisure to see everything was going OK.
I didn't get to see the aftermath or pre pregame with
various leaders popping up for the for the match, but yeah.
Did you get a chance to see it yourself?
So I did and those are some of my complaints, Nick.
And you know, the, the broadcastwas fine, coverage was fine.
I had no issues getting to zone up on my smart TV, things like
(01:33):
that. And I'm not even going to blame
FIFA because UEFA have tried doing the same thing with like
Champions League finals. I know people want to make it
into like a Super Bowl, but likethe pregame, like music shows,
the halftime shows, like they just don't feel right.
Like they were. I thought, I thought they were
pretty rough, to be honest. Like I just, yeah, I I wasn't a
(01:54):
huge fan of some of that. And I'll just admit it's kind of
weird seeing like APIF Saudi Arabia commercial for like an
American broadcast just because of our history in the region.
But yeah, I just, I think some of the shows, I'm not sure
they're cut for it, Nick. Yeah, I think it's still a work
in progress to add the half timeand pregame action to the likes,
but the likes of the NFL and theNBA have.
(02:16):
So football and soccer experts are still working at that, and
we still feel as far away from it as we were about 20 years
ago. Despite all the US execs I've
met I've met over the years thathave told me they're the ones to
solve the problem, we're still still in waiting.
But look, 12 months now to the World Cup in the US.
They'll sort it out by then, I'msure.
(02:37):
Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, I'm really optimistic.
But nonetheless, we will move things along.
I will bring in our guest, who'sAndrew Fingerman, who's the CEO
at Photo Shelter. Now, Andrew, before I start, you
know, peppering you with questions, do you have any
thoughts on what Nick and I have, you know, said did you get
a chance to watch the Club WorldCup final given it's, you know,
was in New York where you're based at?
I did. I did, actually.
It's practically in my backyard at the Am I allowed to say it,
(03:01):
given that this is such an official show broadcast?
It was the MetLife Stadium, of course.
Yeah, no, we have don't have anynaming rights restrictions in
place for the governing bodies of of the world.
Don't worry. It'll be interesting to see how
that all gets handled when when they're playing, you know,
across the US various stadiums. But the, you know, it was as
much a barometer as how the US fans will react to how the New
(03:23):
Jersey, New York area and traffic will react.
Sprinkle in the fact that a president was was coming to join
the fun as well. And Needless to say, I was able
to get around and I was pleased about that.
But did did Nestle in to see thebulk of the game.
It was a big sports day and you know, big sports week too,
between Wimbledon and and the the Club World Cup.
(03:45):
And now we're heading into the All Star break for Major League
Baseball as well. So it's it's an exciting time.
It's not that kind of Midsummer low that some businesses get.
Well, about 21 years ago now, I actually went to New Jersey to
stay with a family friend and wegot tickets to the NFL to watch
The Jets play the Texans. I remember it well, and I don't
(04:07):
remember exactly what happened because it was a long time ago,
but we ended up getting to the Netherlands at the time, and
after the game, everything was gone.
We didn't actually know how to get home because we didn't have
Google. We didn't have those things
there. We're just left in this middle,
this massive vacant car park. Go What do we do here?
I I don't remember exactly what happened, but it took us hours
to get home. But so we learned the hard way.
(04:28):
Through the traffic getting out of those games is not pleasant.
You just reminded me of a momentgrowing up when it was the dead
of winter after a Giants game and my dad lost the car.
And you don't have your like, alarm remote, you know, start
where you can hear things far. So we we want to be around for
hours until everybody was out ofthe parking lot and finally
(04:49):
found the car, got home. Oh gosh, that sounds beyond a
nightmare. That sounds beyond a nightmare
for me. And particularly that's the
thing because in the States, in a lot of countries, particular
states, driving to the game is so normal.
Obviously because of tailgating and stuff as well.
But that is not as big a thing in other sports here.
Like you can go to a game in thePremier League and there's just
no parking anywhere. You you can't get to the ground
(05:10):
if you're driving basically, unless you park further afield.
So definitely different experience, that's for sure.
Now, before we jump into, you know, all the juicy things we're
gonna talk about today, one of the things I just wanted to call
first, Andrew, is, you know, I mentioned you're the CEO of
photo Shelter. You've been there for 17 years.
That is a it's a very good run. I feel like in any walk of life.
So I just, you know, I guess it would help aid to kind of give
(05:31):
people a little bit of a background on photo shelter, but
also just, you know, your experience, how much you've
seen, whether it's, you know, you guys don't just work
exclusively in sports. Like you can probably give us a
little bit of history lesson sort of on, you know, what
you've noticed over that time. Sure.
Thanks for asking that, Chris. It has been a a career for me,
even though I did a few things beforehand as well.
(05:52):
I was a sort of started as a marketer, joined Photo Shelter
as Head of Marketing way back in2000, oh, 2008, counting the 17
years and, and at the time, we were a fledgling company with a
really, really bright idea around how to store and archive
content online for the working professional photographer.
(06:14):
Even early in the company's history, we were very popular
with sports photographers, photojournalists, a lot of the
folks that were travelling and needed to get content from point
A to point B in a hurry. Our founders have figured out
you can, you can string togetherservers all across the globe,
upload that content, store it efficiently, access it wherever
(06:36):
you are and then deliver it to clients.
And so this was 2005 before anybody was using the word cloud
and release anybody, you know, like now my mom and my grandma
and, and my kids know it like, like, and they know exactly what
it is and the companies that power it and what not.
But so at the time we were, we were actually educating content
(06:57):
producers about the value of putting your content online,
making it accessible, making notjust to you, but to your, your
clients, your customers. Let's say you're on a shoot in,
in London and somebody wants theimage that you shot at the World
Series two years ago. Suddenly, thanks to what the,
the founding team here at Photo Shelter built in 2005, we, we
(07:19):
could do that. Even so early on we were, we
were archiving that content, we were looking at the metadata, we
were providing search based on metadata.
But this was to the individual working, working pro, not the
large, large brand. Over time, we saw more and more
brands kind of stumbling over themselves to produce more
(07:40):
content and kind of going back to, let's call it 2012.
The, the first inkling we got ofall this content is just piling
up on people's computers and, and outside agency providers
and, and, and, and, and, you know, marketers throughout your
(08:02):
organisation and the, when, whenyou needed it in the moment,
let's say the rise of social media, of course, everybody
identified the fact that contenthelps people connect and the
more visual content you can provide, the better reactions
and engagement you would get. So suddenly it was like, where's
all that content that we made? How can we use it?
(08:23):
How can we deploy it faster? So we started leaning into that
and we built more tools for the brands and, and now we have
this, this thriving community ofthousands and thousands of
independent creators, as well asa few thousand world class
brands that we work with, not just in the sports world.
We work with folks like Delta Airlines and Kenneth Cole and
(08:45):
and travel brands and consumer brands and B to B folks that you
wouldn't even believe need content to get their job done.
So the number one kind of insight is that it's almost
across industries. The the need to kind of take
content from the moment is produced to all this messy stuff
(09:05):
that happens after, get it in one place, edit it, collaborate
over it, choose what needs to gointo what campaign and then get
it into the hands of the people that need it to do their jobs.
That became a high value function that we could serve and
that that's what we do for the the organisations that we work
with. What we identified in the sports
(09:27):
world was that most often that needs to happen within seconds
of the action unfolding. And so we built some very unique
custom workflows to both identify what's happening in the
content. So who are the players, who are
the brands? You know what's actually taking
place and, and then where does that content need to go?
(09:49):
So these real time work flows. Now we have this system that
enables from the moment of capture, let's say a home run, a
touchdown, a slam dunk, a goal. If that's happening within 60
seconds, it could be moving fromthe camera on the field, whether
it's photo or video into our system through our AI, tagged
(10:12):
with who the player is, team, etcetera.
And then routed automatically toto the people that you have
designated who need it to deployit into the market, whether that
be your social team, your web team, all the way down to even
your athletes. And the last part of this is
what's happening with it. So we have data that tells you
(10:36):
what kind of engagement is that content getting once it's out in
the wild and it's left the platform.
And that's where things become really interesting and really
rich in 2025 to say what kind ofreturn on investment am I
getting on my content and what do I need to be doing more to
resonate with the feds. So that's that's the quick, the
quick version maybe quick. That's a pretty good wrap up in
(10:58):
17 years. I think, Andrew, to get that
into like a couple of minutes. I'm curious then where you've
got to now. It sounds like there's a lot of
enablement as part of it taking a step back and the idea of
having a dam in this industry isessential.
It's every media or every sportscompany is trying to be a media
business in particular in some way, shape or form.
(11:19):
And we've seen a number of them who do different things, but it
sounds like I don't know if it is the key thing, but one of the
key things is the enablement, the cross utilisation by people,
all sorts of different stakeholders in the mix.
Is that what you think and see as the main driver of value for
when you're working with other sports properties?
Is that part or is it actually just actually back to the the
(11:41):
origins of making sure you've really managed your assets
really well so you can pull on them, pull that lever whenever
you do need them. Because sometimes The thing is,
obviously we catch a lot to digital stuff, is that it gets
stuck in the digital, what you call digital library and then no
one can find it again because ithasn't been sorted and assessed
properly. What's that?
What's that dynamic like? Yeah, it's enablement is a very
(12:05):
key piece. I, I almost look at it as, as
three different universes of stakeholders.
You have the, the contributors who is capturing and producing
this content. How can you make it as seamless
as possible for from the moment that that's being captured, the
moment the action's unfolding, how can they get it into the
system? So, so first you have to kind of
(12:27):
corral those producers. And, and if you think about kind
of in a, in a game day setting, you might have your staff,
photographers, videographers, you might have a few freelancers
that have been hired for, for game day or someone that parks
themselves in the tunnel as the players are arriving to see what
they're, what they're wearing. So you can quickly get that
(12:47):
those kind of game day videos and photos out into the, into
the audience or, but then you'vegot even the PR team.
You might have to reference your, your tailgate comment from
earlier. You may have folks wandering,
wandering in the parking lot, taking pictures of what people
are cooking in the parking lot before a game.
And so, so it's identifying where's the content coming from
that needs to get into this one central place.
(13:11):
Then you have the team that needs to actually work on it,
kind of the air traffic control,right?
The routing of the content that might be your, your photo
editors, your video editors, andthey're essential.
So getting them kind of up to speed and understanding how to
work with the system and making sure that they have all access.
(13:31):
And that's key. And for them, what's what's most
important? Making it fast, making it as few
clicks as possible, building in alerts so that they know what's
arriving and when and enabling them to get in and get out,
collaborate. Sometimes we have some real time
messaging capabilities. The boss wants to comment, don't
use this one, use that one, etcetera.
(13:52):
But then to your point about enablement, the stakeholders.
So what we've seen there is years ago it might have been the
social media intern and your social media intern can go in,
do a search, download something,get it out as leisurely as they
care to. And, and now that universe has
(14:13):
expanded, you have scoreboard operators, you have VIP
executives in the company who maybe are in the executive suite
and just got a photo with the Hall of Fame quarterback that
just showed up to take pictures with the with the sponsors.
And you know that they need that.
They want to be putting that outto social media during the game.
(14:35):
Obviously you do have a larger social team, you have your web
team, you have your media relations team.
This goes on and on all the way to the athletes themselves.
After they shower, they take a look at their phone.
They should have a ready made package of content that they can
push out social media to help amplify your brand.
And let's not forget the fans. So the fans themselves, pictures
(14:58):
with the Stanley Cup or the Super Bowl trophy, the Lombardi
trophy. And so the, the consumption of
all this content and the, the ecosystem of, I'm going to use
the term loosely, influencers, the influential people who can
help amplify your brand and share that experience into the,
into the social media audience. It's just expanded so much.
(15:20):
So the savvy leagues and the savvy teams are figuring out how
to map that ecosystem and take advantage of it in a positive
way by getting those people the right content at the right time
to share with the right audience.
Andrew, I just had a follow up question on that.
I'm just wondering with all thiscontent you are helping manage,
(15:40):
whether it be sport or otherwise, you talked a lot
about the real time access or near real time access that
you're sort of looking to enablefor stakeholders.
Do you have any idea on how muchis it all about real time, near,
real time, let's call it and theold archive side of things?
Because The thing is that with adam you've got so much in there.
Sports is a lot of it is built around the now the near, the
(16:03):
near access, the near action. But is it obviously it's
enabling the archive component like do you have any idea what
that whether it's the split of that, that that consumption or
use? What's that look like?
So it you'd be surprised, it's about 5050.
And so it's, it's not just aboutreal time game day, get through
(16:24):
the system, engage the fans in the moment, but you're producing
these, these assets, these are real assets and they don't
depreciate over time. They appreciate if you're able
to, if you're able to get more return on that investment by
using it, finding it and using it in in the future.
So, so I like to think of a veryactive real time workflow of 60
(16:47):
seconds. It's out, it's you're counting,
you know, your your, your likes and your shares and and
everything like that. And that's that's amazing.
And people are, you know, peoplebeing our customers are are so
excited to just move as quickly as possible.
Be efficient, get it into the infront of the audience, but but
(17:09):
then you have all kinds of ways you can use this content in the
future to generate engagement and generate sponsor activation
as well. So think about, I'll confess
this morning as I was having coffee and on Instagram and you
know, they always say you're notsupposed to do that till
whatever time it is of the day, but.
We're all guilty. We're all guilty of that,
(17:30):
Android. Right, theoretically, I'm
working right? And what do I stop in my
scrolling? But a there's a famous baseball
game, Yankees against the Red Sox, where it went into extra
innings. It was a tie game.
The playoff, playoff contention was on the line and and there
was a foul ball hit towards the stands.
(17:52):
Derek Jeter goes running at it, lunges towards the ball, catches
it, flies directly into the stands.
And I'm sitting there watching it like it happened yesterday.
And you know what I'm doing? I'm I'm engaging, I'm engaging
with the brand. And so my point there is it's
not just about the the, you know, the game day usage and
getting it in front of the audience as quickly as possible.
(18:14):
You have player birthdays, you have great moments, clutch
moments, all kinds of additionalways to kind of resurface and
repurpose this content. I'll tell a I'll tell a quick
story if you have. We have a minute.
We've got time. There's a photographer who for a
very long time worked for the Arizona Cardinals by the name of
Gene Lauer, and Gene took a veryfamous photo.
(18:40):
Didn't know it was going to be afamous photo, but I'm sure you
remember Pat Tillman, who was the player for the Arizona
Cardinals who when the after 911enlisted in the military, went
to fight in Afghanistan and ultimately was was killed in
action. And there was a very iconic
(19:01):
photo of him running, helmet in hand, hair is flying in the
wind. There's an enormous, enormous
iconic character. And this photo became the photo
that everyone remembers of Pat Tillman to the point where it's
a statue in front of the ArizonaCardinals stadium now.
And that was just sitting in in Gene's archive, the Arizona
(19:23):
Cardinals archive. And, and it was surfaced in the
moment. But if it wasn't there, tagged
and searchable, it would have been lost.
Lost to history. Yeah.
And I think that that raises oneof the questions I have.
It's just to give people a bit of an idea of like the tangible
impact that a technology like this can have.
(19:44):
Because I think one of the one of the things when I speak to my
friends who don't work in sports, there's always this
assumption. They're like all they see is big
flashy lights. They assume everybody must have
lots of money, lots of resources.
And, you know, we got to speak to the head of social media, PSG
last week in an event we hosted,and he said he's got 18 people
on the ground for the Club WorldCup final.
I know for a fact most clubs do not have 18 people in their
(20:06):
social media team, let alone 18 people they can just go send to
an event. Most of these are typically like
one employee. That's got to be like 6 or 7
jobs. And to your point, the sheer
amount of like photos that are taken a game, videos taken at a
game. Can you talk us through tangibly
the amount of time that a technology like this can save?
Because to your point, I can imagine just 10s of thousands of
(20:26):
photos to find that one Pat Tillman photo which is now done
in literally a second. Yeah.
So the, the teams that we work with, they do tell us a a few, a
few things about the value of the technology.
If you think about some of the, the rigour that needs to go into
kind of the movement of this content as it's captured prior
(20:48):
to tools like ours being able totag, tag the players, tag the
brands and then move that content remotely to where it
needs to go and, and enable the people then to deploy it.
That has been kind of messy people intensive as as recently
as a few years ago. And I guarantee there's still a
(21:09):
few teams doing it. They're removing the memory card
from the camera in the, you know, at the at the quarter
change, handing it to a runner. The runner's running into the
media room. They're downloading and figuring
out what needs, what needs to happen next.
So fortunately we've enabled, we've enabled that to be cut
out. We've enabled the kind of human
(21:29):
level tagging to be cut out. By and large, I think you can't
always trust the machines 100%, especially if let's say you
know, you have a guy that's the number 17 and they're turning
and it's, you see the number 7. So you have to use technology to
look at other factors in the, inthe image.
(21:52):
That's not always the case that we can see their face.
It's not always the case that wecan see the name on the back of
the jersey. So we have built, we have built
kind of the sort of very best here and now measures to to see
if we can still identify that player based on reasoning.
And, and So what the, what the teams have told us is that they,
(22:14):
they have been able to eliminatea number of people.
So I'm recalling a, a Buffalo Bills quote where it's 33 humans
aren't needed at game time to, to work thanks to thanks to our
tools. So, so there's some savings
there which ideally can be redeployed towards creativity
(22:38):
instead of just kind of grunt work of running around and sort
of manually processing and tagging content.
So enabling the teams there to either employ more content
creators or more marketers. So one, one of the teams that
we're working with that has seenincredible success with how
they're using our tools across the platform to, to create
(23:00):
efficiencies using the AI tagging to not just identify the
content, but also get it to the right people and then get it out
to market. The Bills tell us they're able
to save $120,000 a year just by using the AI tagging and the
workflow capabilities. So, so it's introducing
efficiencies that then can be deployed elsewhere towards the
(23:23):
the team's general marketing success.
Makes your commercial case a little bit easier, Andrew, when
they start sharing those sorts of numbers.
So when you start talking to renewal time.
But that that's a huge thing, right?
And one of the things we see, Chris, is across the entire
ecosystem of sports media is howdo we become more effective and
more efficient with with content, content creation,
(23:43):
distribution and life? Because the margins for
commercial success around sportsmedia content, it's still quite
tricky to get that balance right.
So marginal, some of those costsmight be massive for some, might
be marginal for others, depending on the scale we're
talking. But that can be enough.
Those percentages here and therecan make a huge difference in
moving the needle and extractingthat value that's needed out of
sports media to make it worthwhile to invest more and
(24:06):
more into that space. So a good example to share for
sure. I was just to say even on that
point about like teams and things like that, I was speaking
to someone in the Premier Leagueclub.
They launched a YouTube channel in about the last two years and
they said like we're not making a tonne of money from YouTube,
but we make enough money that I can hire 2 new people to my
team. And those two new people to the
point Andrew is making aren't necessarily there to do the
(24:28):
grunt work, but it's to make thecontent even better.
So even those marginal things interms of money might also enable
further creativity to do even better things or particularly
stuff I think like branded content with partners.
So all those little cost savingscan add up to bigger things down
the road. Yeah.
What one thing that I'm observing that it also goes
(24:49):
beyond the cost savings, but howcan content be an enabler to
generating more sponsorship revenue?
And that's where things are starting to get really fun.
I don't think it's a a giant secret that the, the content
producers, they're not at the kind of SVPCMO level of either
(25:10):
compensation and budgeting in the organisation.
So they've had to fight over time for more investment.
And I think the organisations that we've seen that have leaned
in to investing more in the content production starting to
see more return on that investment because they're
finding more monetizable, monetizable visual content that
(25:31):
they can then go out and engage sponsors with.
I'm thinking about the Boston Red Sox are a good example where
for a long time they have been doing a a sponsored slideshow
after a game, just images of thegame.
And so imagine getting an LL Bean to spar Sam Adams to
sponsor, sponsor that. And it's just taking the content
(25:52):
and seeing how does this resonate with the fans and who
is The Who is a great sponsor? If it happens to feature a, you
know, LL Bean logo or Sam Adams logo somewhere in that content,
even even better. And I'm not saying the standard
kind of drop a logo on it and share it, but rather if you
have, you know, the sponsor logos in the background at the
(26:14):
stadium, that's great. And we recently launched a user
generated content collector tool.
So the ability to collect fan content.
And what we're seeing there is that the content and social
teams are working with the sponsorship teams to say, how
can we create a fan photo or video contest?
(26:35):
What's an appropriate sponsor? We can mash up like a pet food
sponsor with your dog in the favourite team jersey and and
then fans love sharing that content.
So monetize and monetize. Andrew, the those are some great
examples of how you can really bring your assets to life.
How do you just talk us through the nuts and bolts on how they
(26:57):
actually get access to the platform?
So are fans going to a white label solution by the club or is
it all just photo shelter as a standard app that everyone has
to download and access? Well, how are you giving
everyone access to the platform?I'm, I'm glad you're asking that
because really we built the platform to be as flexible as
possible for whatever the specific teams workflow or
(27:19):
specific customers workflow might be.
So you can, you can decide this is just a platform that's going
to be used internally inside of my organisation for my approved
people to search and download and and then do their jobs.
So the marketers, the PR team, the media team, so that might be
kind of like closed example number one, but probably the
(27:43):
most common that we see because it affords the brands the most
control. And we know that kind of control
and control of your IP is very, very critical when it comes to
the the large sports brands. But then we've seen some teams
take a kind of a very modern, very 180° view of the more hands
(28:04):
I can get on my content, the better because the more sharing,
the more my brand will be amplified.
So we see organisations like Premier Lacrosse making the
content widely open, widely accessible through there.
We call it a portal. So you're having access to your
portal. We give the customer a branded
portal and where you can go and search and or kind of go on a
(28:26):
journey game by game, collectionby collection.
And that's fun. That's fun too, because more of
that content is accessible and and visible.
And then you'll see you'll see things in between.
So what we try and do is make itjust as as flexible as possible
to get that the content in the hands of whoever might, might
need it. We have a great mobile app and
(28:47):
when it comes to the athlete, wehave a seamless system that can
either send them a, a, a text link at SMS or WhatsApp link
through our web web app. You can the other we can go and
get the content already with already made captions from the
the social team, whoever might be sharing it with them.
(29:10):
I love to use the Philadelphia Eagles as an example where they
just won the Super Bowl with photo shelter.
We, we had the NFL full photo team using photo shelter to
capture the content, put it intoour platform.
We have the Eagles team, we havethe Chiefs.
They're all using photo shelter and, and as the game is
(29:31):
unfolding, they're all pushing content into their respective
photo shelter as well as the leagues and, and then the the
player social team is 1 instanceof who needs to get that
content. They're packaging that content
and pushing it to the Jalen Hurts and Saquon Barclays.
And when they are celebrating their victory, they get in, get
(29:54):
into the locker room, hopefully,you know, celebrate, take a
shower and, and right on their phone, they're already
captioned, already ready to pushout in one Click to their pre
pre assigned social media profiles.
And what's really exciting is that the league cares so much
about this. They, we are aggregating the
(30:14):
analytics on who's putting content out to the market.
What, what content is getting the most engagement, putting
that all together. And it's being presented as
reports to the highest of high levels at the NFL.
And and then the content team can decide what to do next.
(30:35):
So what players to lean into, what content is resonating most
with those players fans. So the the level of analysis is
becoming more and more powerful on what's happening on the
various platforms and that's empowering next iterations of
content production and content distribution and and social and
(30:56):
sponsorship success. Interesting.
I was just saying before we diveinto the athlete portion,
because I do want to spend some time on there because Nick and I
have talked about there's not enough freedom given to athletes
be content creators. We were still talking about the
sponsorship side of things. And I think once we talk about
sponsorship, we talk about return on investment.
I think it's historically been abit difficult, but now we're
seeing more and more scrutiny under where people choose to
(31:19):
spend their sponsorship. So obviously the brands are
important part of this. You're talking about analytics,
data, things like that within the platform.
Are you able to help, you know, someone one like a Philadelphia
Eagles, the Bills help them withtheir brands to determine sort
of what the value is on that, that sponsorship based on, you
know, exposure that they're thatthey're generating through that
(31:39):
partnership by just, you know, being in the background of, you
know, the game-winning touchdown, something like that.
Yeah. So that requires a little bit of
off platform legwork, but there are a few tools out there that I
think are just fascinating. Like I'm not sure if you're
familiar with MVP index is 1 andI'm sure you guys are familiar
with a handful of others that I'm.
I'm just fascinated with them. I could see us combining with
(32:03):
with teams like that, companies like that that have great, great
kind of next level analytics on helping our customers understand
that value. It's an important thing, right,
Because I think that's what thatjust that that's one of the the
challenges. I think it's the what's that
cliche saying about if a tree falls over in the woods and no
ones hears it as as it happened.And I think you really do need
(32:26):
to the better and more effectiveways you can measure and see
what the true reach of that content is.
Only then do you start to realise how widespread the
impact and audience you actuallyhave.
Because typically whether it's the major leagues or even the
ones underneath, they only know through their official channels
and that is only a fraction of that.
(32:48):
That region arguably is probablythe smallest percentage of it
versus all the other stakeholders that are
contributing to that. So I think it's a really, really
important evolution of where we've been because it has been
pretty blind to that visibility for quite some time.
Yeah, I could. I could see us getting there in
a hurry. The Yep folks are thrilled about
(33:11):
engagement statistics, but then they want to know what did that
motivate? What did did that motivate more
deodorant purchases in the Kansas City area, for example?
I would love to see if they could, if they can thread, if
they can get to a point where they can thread the consumer
goods consumption in a region that then we are on to absolute
gold, I think across this industry.
(33:32):
It's true. Well, I, well, I, I think we're
not far off because I've seen tools not specific to the sports
world, but that can analyse and help brands target specific
social communities that would lend themselves to more kind of
behaviour drivers. So I guess if we were to stick
with the deodorant example, theydo use kind of first party data
(33:54):
from like the shop, like the I guess like the drug stores and
the supermarkets and what not. You can know get a baseline of
what kind of behaviour is happening.
You could say, well, you might want to target this team in this
market. If you're low, you know your
results are low or your share ofmarket is low.
And then you can actually say dothe campaign for six months a
(34:17):
year and then we'll tell you howis it performing after all of
this exposure that's been generated in market.
And that I think is great for the marketers too, because we
know that the marketers, everybody's thrilled about
getting more engagement. But when you go to the CFO and
(34:37):
ask for more budget, they're going to ask for what's the,
what's the value I'm getting on this engagement?
Now going back towards the athletes and the engagement's
going to be a part of that, one of the things Nick and I have
talked about in previous pods isit does feel like the the
athlete is an underutilised media tool.
There are plenty of examples where the athlete may have more
followers than the team or potentially the organisation
(34:59):
that's involved. And obviously something like the
NFL is quite massive. But you know, in our audience,
we've got things like volleyball, badminton, stuff
like that, where the individual personalities are sometimes
larger than the organisations themselves.
I mean, I think of the example, I forget how many followers it
was, but you know, when Cristiano Ronaldo left Real
Madrid to go to Juventus, Juventus gained like 10 million
followers overnight. And being able to leverage the
(35:21):
power of athletes, particularly today is, you know, they might
not describe themselves as influencers, but they do
influence, you know, the, the people that do follow them.
So you you kind of gave the example of being able to empower
athletes with the ability to have stuff right now because,
you know, they're not necessarily social media
experts, tech experts. You know, I imagine Saquon
(35:42):
probably has a million photos ofthem taken every single game.
But being able to deliver him, you know, here's the top 10,
whatever it is. How how's this kind of
technology helping athletes as brands or those who want to be
attached to those athletes grow?Yeah.
And you know, Chris, I was just thinking about your, your
comment about kind of the, the following that these athletes
are building. Now, of course, with NIL, it's
(36:04):
starting, starting even earlier.And so they're arriving at the
league with enormous followings to, to begin with.
And I should it's worth mentioning that we work with
about 600 colleges and universities through the photo
shelter platform as well. Most cases it's, it's, it's
athletics and beyond. But in the athletics world,
that's the same need to capture the content, get it to whether
(36:29):
it's sponsors, media or players is now it's it's now kind of
increasing kind of following along the same same paradigm
that the pro leagues have set. So, so now you have the
collegiate athletes who are like, get me my content.
I want it right after the game. Let's go, let's go.
You know, it's, it's been an age-old kind of symbiotic
(36:50):
relationship where if you talk to kind of the videographers and
the photographers who work at the various teams, they have,
you know, text based relationships with the, with
the, the, whether it's Major League Baseball case, like
pitchers and, and, and the greathitters and whatnot.
And they will send them not justtheir photos from the game, but
maybe the family is there. Take some photos of the family.
(37:12):
And, and just for, for decades, we've known that the
photographers and the players, they have this great, great
relationship, but it's really onthe teams and the leagues to
kind of lean in and invest. And how do you, how do you
formalise this? How do you use it as a
definitive programme to amplify your, your brand?
(37:34):
And it's really been remarkable to see each of the leagues kind
of get there at some, some level, some capacity.
What we've seen the NFL do is they've, they've left no stone
unturned really, when it comes to how do you amplify, you know,
how do you amplify and grow the value of the NFL brand?
And so not only are they savvy about getting content to the
(38:00):
players themselves, but they also have a college social
programme where, let's say Justin Jefferson of the
Minnesota Vikings scores a incredible touchdown.
They're not just sending it to him, but they're also sending it
to, I believe he went to LSU. So LSU is receiving content as
well so that they can help amplify that moment too.
(38:20):
So so I think if depending on the category, you look at
different leagues and it's we'renot just talking about the, you
know, the top marquee pro leagues, but all the way to kind
of more developing leagues like pro volleyball, like the
pickleball leagues. World Surf League is a fantastic
example that we work with where they're identifying this great
(38:43):
opportunity to activate the athletes in this, you know,
content relationship. Get the content to to them and
make sure that they have it as fast as possible to to be able
to share it after and long term.Andrew, we've talked a lot, a
lot about different stakeholdersranging from the athletes to the
teams to the leagues to all the brands, to all the different
(39:06):
stakeholders, even families and other affiliate universities.
There's quite a lot there. Just do you have a rough feel of
where the bulk of consumption and use typically sits in any of
the examples you shared? Like is it 75% team and a little
bit of a sprinkling of everyone else or is it really disparate?
I'm imagining it's quite disparate across the lot.
(39:27):
But let's, if you anything you can give us a take on there.
It, it is fairly disparate, especially because the
activation and the, the moment is, is different, right?
Like the NFL, it's typically once a week where the actual
game is taking place. Major League Baseball, it's just
about every night. Basketball, it's just about
every night. And so it does really tend to
(39:50):
vary. But what I think is the nucleus,
where it starts is really you have a marketing team and a
creative team and the marketing team, there's some sort of
friction. They need to get their hands on
that content to do their jobs better.
There's tremendous pressure coming on them to produce more
(40:13):
and get it out to market, whether that be actual kind of
social or. Web or the sort of next media
guide or fan even like yearbooksand you know some teams have
their own TV networks and magazines and things like that.
So the pressure on the marketersand the designers, we do actual
(40:35):
surveys and they're telling us they've never been under
pressure like they are under today because of this demand.
The demand is insatiable. And, and so if there's friction
in that process of getting the content, so the like, like
earlier I said, the right content, the right audience at
the right time. If there's friction there,
(40:55):
they're telling us that it's impeding their ability to make
money, not just kind of connect with fans and make everybody
happy, but it's impeding their ability to make money.
So what we've, what we've tried to do is just streamline all
those processes in a way that works best for them.
But the, that nucleus, whether it's photographers,
(41:15):
videographers, designers, the content is there, the marketers
need it. So they come to us screaming and
say, you have to help us. You'd think that we'd be good
about this already, but we're not.
We have content everywhere. Can you help get it in one
place? And so, so then it starts in
that kind of small area. And then the savvy teams,
whether it be kind of our directcustomer could either be the
(41:38):
content creator teams, so the creative teams or the marketers,
then they will figure out how toget more audiences and
stakeholders throughout their organisation using it.
And that's how they then kind ofAtlanta Falcons, great example.
They actually went on a tour, they called it the Dam Tour, and
they met with departments throughout the company to say,
(41:58):
this is this treasure trove of content that's sitting right
here inside of our organisation.Here's how you can use it.
Now let's talk about how you canuse it to do what you do better.
And so amplifying the usage, it's, you know, in software,
it's this concept of user acceptance.
And so the more enablement that we can help the customer do and
(42:22):
do through their organisation, the more hands, the more
searches, the more downloads across our platform, we're
seeing over 60 million searches a year and I think about 20
petabytes of customer data. So there they're sitting on a
lot of photos and videos. I love it when someone
references a number that I don'teven know what that looks like.
(42:45):
It sounds so big, but it sounds like a lot.
It's the only thing I have petabytes there.
Just in terms of looking to start wrapping this up a little
bit, Andrew, you mentioned before like you guys aren't just
working specifically with sports.
And I think maybe one of the things would be interesting is
sometimes in our world there's alot of people that build sports
specific solutions. But I would say the challenge
(43:05):
with that is that's maybe perhaps taking a narrow lens on
things and there is things to learn.
I just be curious whether it's within a product that photo
shelters developed that is then moved on to the sports world or
there's something you think other, you know, organisations
outside the sports world are doing.
What sort of cross learnings have there been or what cross
learnings could there be? I'm just, I'm interested.
(43:26):
We've not necessarily focused onthe other, you know, verticals
within your business, but does any of that tie over to the
sports side? It genuinely does, Chris, if
you, if you think about sports as like a like a capsule or a
microcosm and, and in some cases, especially the real time
nature of sports is causing sports to be out ahead in how
things move quickly. And what we've found is that
(43:49):
when we turn to our other customer verticals, other
categories like education, I referenced other live events
like music and entertainment, but even just the corporate
world generally, people are asking how can we, how can we
move quicker? How can we move content from our
street team that has a event on the streets of New York City to
(44:11):
social media? Same same basic workflow as a
Super Bowl and a sports team. We have actually Chris, we
talked about the the great city of Cincinnati love it and we're
working with the team at at visit Cincy to.
They are using the photo shelterplatform for DAM for content,
(44:35):
workflow and social distribution.
They do a series of events through the year that promote
the city of Cincinnati. There's culinary events, there's
art events, so they need to use content that they've already
produced to promote those events, and they also are
engaging the various participants in those events.
That could be your athletes thatto help promote it.
(44:58):
So capturing the content and andhaving the participants share it
as well. So that's just this is kind of 1
paradigm in the education space.We're seeing that same real time
workflow at graduation and otherspecial events that are
happening on on campus too. Well, I'm glad to hear my
hometown Cincinnati, our innovators, we've always been
(45:19):
leaders, we've always been greatpeople.
So I'm glad if we're going to wrap this up, we've talked about
what an excellent example. I'm just one of many that
present the great city of Cincinnati.
Absolutely. Awesome.
Well, Andrew, I appreciate you taking us through all that.
Some of the different examples, I think if anything comes across
and Nick's mentioned, there's just more and more sports
organisations are no longer just, you know, functioning
(45:42):
bodies that produce competitionsor organised teams.
They have to be media first businesses.
And I think technology like whatPhoto Shelter is providing is
just simply enabling those teamsto leverage that.
And you know, you talked about 5050 between near live versus
the archive stuff. You know, there's probably more
we could have talked about from an archive perspective.
I do appreciate you coming on and giving us so much insights.
(46:02):
Thank you. Well, it's great to be here.
I'm excited to see what's next from Sports Pro as well, so
we'll be in touch. Good stuff.
Thanks, Andrew. Now before you go, if you liked
what you heard today, be sure torate and review and just let me
know what you think on social. You can find me on most social
platforms at Sports Pro Nick. And please do spread the word of
the podcast. There's no better way of
marketing than word of mouth, whether that be in person or on
(46:24):
social media. And if you don't like what
you've heard, what you think we should be doing more or less of
something, then reach out and let me know as I'd love to hear
from you. Thanks.
Stream timers until next time.
Hello everyone and welcome back to the next episode of Stream
Time Sports. My name is Chris Stone, the
community lead, joined as alwaysby our CEO, Nick Meacham.
Now Nick, we do have another guest with us today, so I won't
spend too much time on it, but I'm conscious of the fact we are
recording this podcast the day after the Club World Cup final.
We might not get to talk about it again because I'm going on
holiday next week. Just really quickly, Nick, did
you get to watch it? Any top line thoughts because I
(00:31):
got a couple. OK, well I did TuneIn, but I
tuned in at basically a two. It was already 2 nil by that
time. So in the immediately I'm like,
oh, OK, well I'll I'll stick it out for a bit.
Then I turned away for a bit because I had it on my phone
because I didn't have any designaccess on any of my smart
devices in the house. And then there was another goal
and I missed that. So it was a three nil down.
(00:52):
I'd missed the all the action. So I, I basically gave up pretty
quickly after that and started keeping another eye on the
Lionesses in the EUR happening in Switzerland after Wimbledon
earlier. So lots to consume over a few
hours. But I sadly, I, I think that
should want to make one obviously for business purposes
(01:13):
as well as leisure to see everything was going OK.
I didn't get to see the aftermath or pre pregame with
various leaders popping up for the for the match, but yeah.
Did you get a chance to see it yourself?
So I did and those are some of my complaints, Nick.
And you know, the, the broadcastwas fine, coverage was fine.
I had no issues getting to zone up on my smart TV, things like
(01:33):
that. And I'm not even going to blame
FIFA because UEFA have tried doing the same thing with like
Champions League finals. I know people want to make it
into like a Super Bowl, but likethe pregame, like music shows,
the halftime shows, like they just don't feel right.
Like they were. I thought, I thought they were
pretty rough, to be honest. Like I just, yeah, I I wasn't a
(01:54):
huge fan of some of that. And I'll just admit it's kind of
weird seeing like APIF Saudi Arabia commercial for like an
American broadcast just because of our history in the region.
But yeah, I just, I think some of the shows, I'm not sure
they're cut for it, Nick. Yeah, I think it's still a work
in progress to add the half timeand pregame action to the likes,
but the likes of the NFL and theNBA have.
(02:16):
So football and soccer experts are still working at that, and
we still feel as far away from it as we were about 20 years
ago. Despite all the US execs I've
met I've met over the years thathave told me they're the ones to
solve the problem, we're still still in waiting.
But look, 12 months now to the World Cup in the US.
They'll sort it out by then, I'msure.
(02:37):
Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, I'm really optimistic.
But nonetheless, we will move things along.
I will bring in our guest, who'sAndrew Fingerman, who's the CEO
at Photo Shelter. Now, Andrew, before I start, you
know, peppering you with questions, do you have any
thoughts on what Nick and I have, you know, said did you get
a chance to watch the Club WorldCup final given it's, you know,
was in New York where you're based at?
I did. I did, actually.
It's practically in my backyard at the Am I allowed to say it,
(03:01):
given that this is such an official show broadcast?
It was the MetLife Stadium, of course.
Yeah, no, we have don't have anynaming rights restrictions in
place for the governing bodies of of the world.
Don't worry. It'll be interesting to see how
that all gets handled when when they're playing, you know,
across the US various stadiums. But the, you know, it was as
much a barometer as how the US fans will react to how the New
(03:23):
Jersey, New York area and traffic will react.
Sprinkle in the fact that a president was was coming to join
the fun as well. And Needless to say, I was able
to get around and I was pleased about that.
But did did Nestle in to see thebulk of the game.
It was a big sports day and you know, big sports week too,
between Wimbledon and and the the Club World Cup.
(03:45):
And now we're heading into the All Star break for Major League
Baseball as well. So it's it's an exciting time.
It's not that kind of Midsummer low that some businesses get.
Well, about 21 years ago now, I actually went to New Jersey to
stay with a family friend and wegot tickets to the NFL to watch
The Jets play the Texans. I remember it well, and I don't
(04:07):
remember exactly what happened because it was a long time ago,
but we ended up getting to the Netherlands at the time, and
after the game, everything was gone.
We didn't actually know how to get home because we didn't have
Google. We didn't have those things
there. We're just left in this middle,
this massive vacant car park. Go What do we do here?
I I don't remember exactly what happened, but it took us hours
to get home. But so we learned the hard way.
(04:28):
Through the traffic getting out of those games is not pleasant.
You just reminded me of a momentgrowing up when it was the dead
of winter after a Giants game and my dad lost the car.
And you don't have your like, alarm remote, you know, start
where you can hear things far. So we we want to be around for
hours until everybody was out ofthe parking lot and finally
(04:49):
found the car, got home. Oh gosh, that sounds beyond a
nightmare. That sounds beyond a nightmare
for me. And particularly that's the
thing because in the States, in a lot of countries, particular
states, driving to the game is so normal.
Obviously because of tailgating and stuff as well.
But that is not as big a thing in other sports here.
Like you can go to a game in thePremier League and there's just
no parking anywhere. You you can't get to the ground
(05:10):
if you're driving basically, unless you park further afield.
So definitely different experience, that's for sure.
Now, before we jump into, you know, all the juicy things we're
gonna talk about today, one of the things I just wanted to call
first, Andrew, is, you know, I mentioned you're the CEO of
photo Shelter. You've been there for 17 years.
That is a it's a very good run. I feel like in any walk of life.
So I just, you know, I guess it would help aid to kind of give
(05:31):
people a little bit of a background on photo shelter, but
also just, you know, your experience, how much you've
seen, whether it's, you know, you guys don't just work
exclusively in sports. Like you can probably give us a
little bit of history lesson sort of on, you know, what
you've noticed over that time. Sure.
Thanks for asking that, Chris. It has been a a career for me,
even though I did a few things beforehand as well.
(05:52):
I was a sort of started as a marketer, joined Photo Shelter
as Head of Marketing way back in2000, oh, 2008, counting the 17
years and, and at the time, we were a fledgling company with a
really, really bright idea around how to store and archive
content online for the working professional photographer.
(06:14):
Even early in the company's history, we were very popular
with sports photographers, photojournalists, a lot of the
folks that were travelling and needed to get content from point
A to point B in a hurry. Our founders have figured out
you can, you can string togetherservers all across the globe,
upload that content, store it efficiently, access it wherever
(06:36):
you are and then deliver it to clients.
And so this was 2005 before anybody was using the word cloud
and release anybody, you know, like now my mom and my grandma
and, and my kids know it like, like, and they know exactly what
it is and the companies that power it and what not.
But so at the time we were, we were actually educating content
(06:57):
producers about the value of putting your content online,
making it accessible, making notjust to you, but to your, your
clients, your customers. Let's say you're on a shoot in,
in London and somebody wants theimage that you shot at the World
Series two years ago. Suddenly, thanks to what the,
the founding team here at Photo Shelter built in 2005, we, we
(07:19):
could do that. Even so early on we were, we
were archiving that content, we were looking at the metadata, we
were providing search based on metadata.
But this was to the individual working, working pro, not the
large, large brand. Over time, we saw more and more
brands kind of stumbling over themselves to produce more
(07:40):
content and kind of going back to, let's call it 2012.
The, the first inkling we got ofall this content is just piling
up on people's computers and, and outside agency providers
and, and, and, and, and, you know, marketers throughout your
(08:02):
organisation and the, when, whenyou needed it in the moment,
let's say the rise of social media, of course, everybody
identified the fact that contenthelps people connect and the
more visual content you can provide, the better reactions
and engagement you would get. So suddenly it was like, where's
all that content that we made? How can we use it?
(08:23):
How can we deploy it faster? So we started leaning into that
and we built more tools for the brands and, and now we have
this, this thriving community ofthousands and thousands of
independent creators, as well asa few thousand world class
brands that we work with, not just in the sports world.
We work with folks like Delta Airlines and Kenneth Cole and
(08:45):
and travel brands and consumer brands and B to B folks that you
wouldn't even believe need content to get their job done.
So the number one kind of insight is that it's almost
across industries. The the need to kind of take
content from the moment is produced to all this messy stuff
(09:05):
that happens after, get it in one place, edit it, collaborate
over it, choose what needs to gointo what campaign and then get
it into the hands of the people that need it to do their jobs.
That became a high value function that we could serve and
that that's what we do for the the organisations that we work
with. What we identified in the sports
(09:27):
world was that most often that needs to happen within seconds
of the action unfolding. And so we built some very unique
custom workflows to both identify what's happening in the
content. So who are the players, who are
the brands? You know what's actually taking
place and, and then where does that content need to go?
(09:49):
So these real time work flows. Now we have this system that
enables from the moment of capture, let's say a home run, a
touchdown, a slam dunk, a goal. If that's happening within 60
seconds, it could be moving fromthe camera on the field, whether
it's photo or video into our system through our AI, tagged
(10:12):
with who the player is, team, etcetera.
And then routed automatically toto the people that you have
designated who need it to deployit into the market, whether that
be your social team, your web team, all the way down to even
your athletes. And the last part of this is
what's happening with it. So we have data that tells you
(10:36):
what kind of engagement is that content getting once it's out in
the wild and it's left the platform.
And that's where things become really interesting and really
rich in 2025 to say what kind ofreturn on investment am I
getting on my content and what do I need to be doing more to
resonate with the feds. So that's that's the quick, the
quick version maybe quick. That's a pretty good wrap up in
(10:58):
17 years. I think, Andrew, to get that
into like a couple of minutes. I'm curious then where you've
got to now. It sounds like there's a lot of
enablement as part of it taking a step back and the idea of
having a dam in this industry isessential.
It's every media or every sportscompany is trying to be a media
business in particular in some way, shape or form.
(11:19):
And we've seen a number of them who do different things, but it
sounds like I don't know if it is the key thing, but one of the
key things is the enablement, the cross utilisation by people,
all sorts of different stakeholders in the mix.
Is that what you think and see as the main driver of value for
when you're working with other sports properties?
Is that part or is it actually just actually back to the the
(11:41):
origins of making sure you've really managed your assets
really well so you can pull on them, pull that lever whenever
you do need them. Because sometimes The thing is,
obviously we catch a lot to digital stuff, is that it gets
stuck in the digital, what you call digital library and then no
one can find it again because ithasn't been sorted and assessed
properly. What's that?
What's that dynamic like? Yeah, it's enablement is a very
(12:05):
key piece. I, I almost look at it as, as
three different universes of stakeholders.
You have the, the contributors who is capturing and producing
this content. How can you make it as seamless
as possible for from the moment that that's being captured, the
moment the action's unfolding, how can they get it into the
system? So, so first you have to kind of
(12:27):
corral those producers. And, and if you think about kind
of in a, in a game day setting, you might have your staff,
photographers, videographers, you might have a few freelancers
that have been hired for, for game day or someone that parks
themselves in the tunnel as the players are arriving to see what
they're, what they're wearing. So you can quickly get that
(12:47):
those kind of game day videos and photos out into the, into
the audience or, but then you'vegot even the PR team.
You might have to reference your, your tailgate comment from
earlier. You may have folks wandering,
wandering in the parking lot, taking pictures of what people
are cooking in the parking lot before a game.
And so, so it's identifying where's the content coming from
that needs to get into this one central place.
(13:11):
Then you have the team that needs to actually work on it,
kind of the air traffic control,right?
The routing of the content that might be your, your photo
editors, your video editors, andthey're essential.
So getting them kind of up to speed and understanding how to
work with the system and making sure that they have all access.
(13:31):
And that's key. And for them, what's what's most
important? Making it fast, making it as few
clicks as possible, building in alerts so that they know what's
arriving and when and enabling them to get in and get out,
collaborate. Sometimes we have some real time
messaging capabilities. The boss wants to comment, don't
use this one, use that one, etcetera.
(13:52):
But then to your point about enablement, the stakeholders.
So what we've seen there is years ago it might have been the
social media intern and your social media intern can go in,
do a search, download something,get it out as leisurely as they
care to. And, and now that universe has
(14:13):
expanded, you have scoreboard operators, you have VIP
executives in the company who maybe are in the executive suite
and just got a photo with the Hall of Fame quarterback that
just showed up to take pictures with the with the sponsors.
And you know that they need that.
They want to be putting that outto social media during the game.
(14:35):
Obviously you do have a larger social team, you have your web
team, you have your media relations team.
This goes on and on all the way to the athletes themselves.
After they shower, they take a look at their phone.
They should have a ready made package of content that they can
push out social media to help amplify your brand.
And let's not forget the fans. So the fans themselves, pictures
(14:58):
with the Stanley Cup or the Super Bowl trophy, the Lombardi
trophy. And so the, the consumption of
all this content and the, the ecosystem of, I'm going to use
the term loosely, influencers, the influential people who can
help amplify your brand and share that experience into the,
into the social media audience. It's just expanded so much.
(15:20):
So the savvy leagues and the savvy teams are figuring out how
to map that ecosystem and take advantage of it in a positive
way by getting those people the right content at the right time
to share with the right audience.
Andrew, I just had a follow up question on that.
I'm just wondering with all thiscontent you are helping manage,
(15:40):
whether it be sport or otherwise, you talked a lot
about the real time access or near real time access that
you're sort of looking to enablefor stakeholders.
Do you have any idea on how muchis it all about real time, near,
real time, let's call it and theold archive side of things?
Because The thing is that with adam you've got so much in there.
Sports is a lot of it is built around the now the near, the
(16:03):
near access, the near action. But is it obviously it's
enabling the archive component like do you have any idea what
that whether it's the split of that, that that consumption or
use? What's that look like?
So it you'd be surprised, it's about 5050.
And so it's, it's not just aboutreal time game day, get through
(16:24):
the system, engage the fans in the moment, but you're producing
these, these assets, these are real assets and they don't
depreciate over time. They appreciate if you're able
to, if you're able to get more return on that investment by
using it, finding it and using it in in the future.
So, so I like to think of a veryactive real time workflow of 60
(16:47):
seconds. It's out, it's you're counting,
you know, your your, your likes and your shares and and
everything like that. And that's that's amazing.
And people are, you know, peoplebeing our customers are are so
excited to just move as quickly as possible.
Be efficient, get it into the infront of the audience, but but
(17:09):
then you have all kinds of ways you can use this content in the
future to generate engagement and generate sponsor activation
as well. So think about, I'll confess
this morning as I was having coffee and on Instagram and you
know, they always say you're notsupposed to do that till
whatever time it is of the day, but.
We're all guilty. We're all guilty of that,
(17:30):
Android. Right, theoretically, I'm
working right? And what do I stop in my
scrolling? But a there's a famous baseball
game, Yankees against the Red Sox, where it went into extra
innings. It was a tie game.
The playoff, playoff contention was on the line and and there
was a foul ball hit towards the stands.
(17:52):
Derek Jeter goes running at it, lunges towards the ball, catches
it, flies directly into the stands.
And I'm sitting there watching it like it happened yesterday.
And you know what I'm doing? I'm I'm engaging, I'm engaging
with the brand. And so my point there is it's
not just about the the, you know, the game day usage and
getting it in front of the audience as quickly as possible.
(18:14):
You have player birthdays, you have great moments, clutch
moments, all kinds of additionalways to kind of resurface and
repurpose this content. I'll tell a I'll tell a quick
story if you have. We have a minute.
We've got time. There's a photographer who for a
very long time worked for the Arizona Cardinals by the name of
Gene Lauer, and Gene took a veryfamous photo.
(18:40):
Didn't know it was going to be afamous photo, but I'm sure you
remember Pat Tillman, who was the player for the Arizona
Cardinals who when the after 911enlisted in the military, went
to fight in Afghanistan and ultimately was was killed in
action. And there was a very iconic
(19:01):
photo of him running, helmet in hand, hair is flying in the
wind. There's an enormous, enormous
iconic character. And this photo became the photo
that everyone remembers of Pat Tillman to the point where it's
a statue in front of the ArizonaCardinals stadium now.
And that was just sitting in in Gene's archive, the Arizona
(19:23):
Cardinals archive. And, and it was surfaced in the
moment. But if it wasn't there, tagged
and searchable, it would have been lost.
Lost to history. Yeah.
And I think that that raises oneof the questions I have.
It's just to give people a bit of an idea of like the tangible
impact that a technology like this can have.
(19:44):
Because I think one of the one of the things when I speak to my
friends who don't work in sports, there's always this
assumption. They're like all they see is big
flashy lights. They assume everybody must have
lots of money, lots of resources.
And, you know, we got to speak to the head of social media, PSG
last week in an event we hosted,and he said he's got 18 people
on the ground for the Club WorldCup final.
I know for a fact most clubs do not have 18 people in their
(20:06):
social media team, let alone 18 people they can just go send to
an event. Most of these are typically like
one employee. That's got to be like 6 or 7
jobs. And to your point, the sheer
amount of like photos that are taken a game, videos taken at a
game. Can you talk us through tangibly
the amount of time that a technology like this can save?
Because to your point, I can imagine just 10s of thousands of
(20:26):
photos to find that one Pat Tillman photo which is now done
in literally a second. Yeah.
So the, the teams that we work with, they do tell us a a few, a
few things about the value of the technology.
If you think about some of the, the rigour that needs to go into
kind of the movement of this content as it's captured prior
(20:48):
to tools like ours being able totag, tag the players, tag the
brands and then move that content remotely to where it
needs to go and, and enable the people then to deploy it.
That has been kind of messy people intensive as as recently
as a few years ago. And I guarantee there's still a
(21:09):
few teams doing it. They're removing the memory card
from the camera in the, you know, at the at the quarter
change, handing it to a runner. The runner's running into the
media room. They're downloading and figuring
out what needs, what needs to happen next.
So fortunately we've enabled, we've enabled that to be cut
out. We've enabled the kind of human
(21:29):
level tagging to be cut out. By and large, I think you can't
always trust the machines 100%, especially if let's say you
know, you have a guy that's the number 17 and they're turning
and it's, you see the number 7. So you have to use technology to
look at other factors in the, inthe image.
(21:52):
That's not always the case that we can see their face.
It's not always the case that wecan see the name on the back of
the jersey. So we have built, we have built
kind of the sort of very best here and now measures to to see
if we can still identify that player based on reasoning.
And, and So what the, what the teams have told us is that they,
(22:14):
they have been able to eliminatea number of people.
So I'm recalling a, a Buffalo Bills quote where it's 33 humans
aren't needed at game time to, to work thanks to thanks to our
tools. So, so there's some savings
there which ideally can be redeployed towards creativity
(22:38):
instead of just kind of grunt work of running around and sort
of manually processing and tagging content.
So enabling the teams there to either employ more content
creators or more marketers. So one, one of the teams that
we're working with that has seenincredible success with how
they're using our tools across the platform to, to create
(23:00):
efficiencies using the AI tagging to not just identify the
content, but also get it to the right people and then get it out
to market. The Bills tell us they're able
to save $120,000 a year just by using the AI tagging and the
workflow capabilities. So, so it's introducing
efficiencies that then can be deployed elsewhere towards the
(23:23):
the team's general marketing success.
Makes your commercial case a little bit easier, Andrew, when
they start sharing those sorts of numbers.
So when you start talking to renewal time.
But that that's a huge thing, right?
And one of the things we see, Chris, is across the entire
ecosystem of sports media is howdo we become more effective and
more efficient with with content, content creation,
(23:43):
distribution and life? Because the margins for
commercial success around sportsmedia content, it's still quite
tricky to get that balance right.
So marginal, some of those costsmight be massive for some, might
be marginal for others, depending on the scale we're
talking. But that can be enough.
Those percentages here and therecan make a huge difference in
moving the needle and extractingthat value that's needed out of
sports media to make it worthwhile to invest more and
(24:06):
more into that space. So a good example to share for
sure. I was just to say even on that
point about like teams and things like that, I was speaking
to someone in the Premier Leagueclub.
They launched a YouTube channel in about the last two years and
they said like we're not making a tonne of money from YouTube,
but we make enough money that I can hire 2 new people to my
team. And those two new people to the
point Andrew is making aren't necessarily there to do the
(24:28):
grunt work, but it's to make thecontent even better.
So even those marginal things interms of money might also enable
further creativity to do even better things or particularly
stuff I think like branded content with partners.
So all those little cost savingscan add up to bigger things down
the road. Yeah.
What one thing that I'm observing that it also goes
(24:49):
beyond the cost savings, but howcan content be an enabler to
generating more sponsorship revenue?
And that's where things are starting to get really fun.
I don't think it's a a giant secret that the, the content
producers, they're not at the kind of SVPCMO level of either
(25:10):
compensation and budgeting in the organisation.
So they've had to fight over time for more investment.
And I think the organisations that we've seen that have leaned
in to investing more in the content production starting to
see more return on that investment because they're
finding more monetizable, monetizable visual content that
(25:31):
they can then go out and engage sponsors with.
I'm thinking about the Boston Red Sox are a good example where
for a long time they have been doing a a sponsored slideshow
after a game, just images of thegame.
And so imagine getting an LL Bean to spar Sam Adams to
sponsor, sponsor that. And it's just taking the content
(25:52):
and seeing how does this resonate with the fans and who
is The Who is a great sponsor? If it happens to feature a, you
know, LL Bean logo or Sam Adams logo somewhere in that content,
even even better. And I'm not saying the standard
kind of drop a logo on it and share it, but rather if you
have, you know, the sponsor logos in the background at the
(26:14):
stadium, that's great. And we recently launched a user
generated content collector tool.
So the ability to collect fan content.
And what we're seeing there is that the content and social
teams are working with the sponsorship teams to say, how
can we create a fan photo or video contest?
(26:35):
What's an appropriate sponsor? We can mash up like a pet food
sponsor with your dog in the favourite team jersey and and
then fans love sharing that content.
So monetize and monetize. Andrew, the those are some great
examples of how you can really bring your assets to life.
How do you just talk us through the nuts and bolts on how they
(26:57):
actually get access to the platform?
So are fans going to a white label solution by the club or is
it all just photo shelter as a standard app that everyone has
to download and access? Well, how are you giving
everyone access to the platform?I'm, I'm glad you're asking that
because really we built the platform to be as flexible as
possible for whatever the specific teams workflow or
(27:19):
specific customers workflow might be.
So you can, you can decide this is just a platform that's going
to be used internally inside of my organisation for my approved
people to search and download and and then do their jobs.
So the marketers, the PR team, the media team, so that might be
kind of like closed example number one, but probably the
(27:43):
most common that we see because it affords the brands the most
control. And we know that kind of control
and control of your IP is very, very critical when it comes to
the the large sports brands. But then we've seen some teams
take a kind of a very modern, very 180° view of the more hands
(28:04):
I can get on my content, the better because the more sharing,
the more my brand will be amplified.
So we see organisations like Premier Lacrosse making the
content widely open, widely accessible through there.
We call it a portal. So you're having access to your
portal. We give the customer a branded
portal and where you can go and search and or kind of go on a
(28:26):
journey game by game, collectionby collection.
And that's fun. That's fun too, because more of
that content is accessible and and visible.
And then you'll see you'll see things in between.
So what we try and do is make itjust as as flexible as possible
to get that the content in the hands of whoever might, might
need it. We have a great mobile app and
(28:47):
when it comes to the athlete, wehave a seamless system that can
either send them a, a, a text link at SMS or WhatsApp link
through our web web app. You can the other we can go and
get the content already with already made captions from the
the social team, whoever might be sharing it with them.
(29:10):
I love to use the Philadelphia Eagles as an example where they
just won the Super Bowl with photo shelter.
We, we had the NFL full photo team using photo shelter to
capture the content, put it intoour platform.
We have the Eagles team, we havethe Chiefs.
They're all using photo shelter and, and as the game is
(29:31):
unfolding, they're all pushing content into their respective
photo shelter as well as the leagues and, and then the the
player social team is 1 instanceof who needs to get that
content. They're packaging that content
and pushing it to the Jalen Hurts and Saquon Barclays.
And when they are celebrating their victory, they get in, get
(29:54):
into the locker room, hopefully,you know, celebrate, take a
shower and, and right on their phone, they're already
captioned, already ready to pushout in one Click to their pre
pre assigned social media profiles.
And what's really exciting is that the league cares so much
about this. They, we are aggregating the
(30:14):
analytics on who's putting content out to the market.
What, what content is getting the most engagement, putting
that all together. And it's being presented as
reports to the highest of high levels at the NFL.
And and then the content team can decide what to do next.
(30:35):
So what players to lean into, what content is resonating most
with those players fans. So the the level of analysis is
becoming more and more powerful on what's happening on the
various platforms and that's empowering next iterations of
content production and content distribution and and social and
(30:56):
sponsorship success. Interesting.
I was just saying before we diveinto the athlete portion,
because I do want to spend some time on there because Nick and I
have talked about there's not enough freedom given to athletes
be content creators. We were still talking about the
sponsorship side of things. And I think once we talk about
sponsorship, we talk about return on investment.
I think it's historically been abit difficult, but now we're
seeing more and more scrutiny under where people choose to
(31:19):
spend their sponsorship. So obviously the brands are
important part of this. You're talking about analytics,
data, things like that within the platform.
Are you able to help, you know, someone one like a Philadelphia
Eagles, the Bills help them withtheir brands to determine sort
of what the value is on that, that sponsorship based on, you
know, exposure that they're thatthey're generating through that
(31:39):
partnership by just, you know, being in the background of, you
know, the game-winning touchdown, something like that.
Yeah. So that requires a little bit of
off platform legwork, but there are a few tools out there that I
think are just fascinating. Like I'm not sure if you're
familiar with MVP index is 1 andI'm sure you guys are familiar
with a handful of others that I'm.
I'm just fascinated with them. I could see us combining with
(32:03):
with teams like that, companies like that that have great, great
kind of next level analytics on helping our customers understand
that value. It's an important thing, right,
Because I think that's what thatjust that that's one of the the
challenges. I think it's the what's that
cliche saying about if a tree falls over in the woods and no
ones hears it as as it happened.And I think you really do need
(32:26):
to the better and more effectiveways you can measure and see
what the true reach of that content is.
Only then do you start to realise how widespread the
impact and audience you actuallyhave.
Because typically whether it's the major leagues or even the
ones underneath, they only know through their official channels
and that is only a fraction of that.
(32:48):
That region arguably is probablythe smallest percentage of it
versus all the other stakeholders that are
contributing to that. So I think it's a really, really
important evolution of where we've been because it has been
pretty blind to that visibility for quite some time.
Yeah, I could. I could see us getting there in
a hurry. The Yep folks are thrilled about
(33:11):
engagement statistics, but then they want to know what did that
motivate? What did did that motivate more
deodorant purchases in the Kansas City area, for example?
I would love to see if they could, if they can thread, if
they can get to a point where they can thread the consumer
goods consumption in a region that then we are on to absolute
gold, I think across this industry.
(33:32):
It's true. Well, I, well, I, I think we're
not far off because I've seen tools not specific to the sports
world, but that can analyse and help brands target specific
social communities that would lend themselves to more kind of
behaviour drivers. So I guess if we were to stick
with the deodorant example, theydo use kind of first party data
(33:54):
from like the shop, like the I guess like the drug stores and
the supermarkets and what not. You can know get a baseline of
what kind of behaviour is happening.
You could say, well, you might want to target this team in this
market. If you're low, you know your
results are low or your share ofmarket is low.
And then you can actually say dothe campaign for six months a
(34:17):
year and then we'll tell you howis it performing after all of
this exposure that's been generated in market.
And that I think is great for the marketers too, because we
know that the marketers, everybody's thrilled about
getting more engagement. But when you go to the CFO and
(34:37):
ask for more budget, they're going to ask for what's the,
what's the value I'm getting on this engagement?
Now going back towards the athletes and the engagement's
going to be a part of that, one of the things Nick and I have
talked about in previous pods isit does feel like the the
athlete is an underutilised media tool.
There are plenty of examples where the athlete may have more
followers than the team or potentially the organisation
(34:59):
that's involved. And obviously something like the
NFL is quite massive. But you know, in our audience,
we've got things like volleyball, badminton, stuff
like that, where the individual personalities are sometimes
larger than the organisations themselves.
I mean, I think of the example, I forget how many followers it
was, but you know, when Cristiano Ronaldo left Real
Madrid to go to Juventus, Juventus gained like 10 million
followers overnight. And being able to leverage the
(35:21):
power of athletes, particularly today is, you know, they might
not describe themselves as influencers, but they do
influence, you know, the, the people that do follow them.
So you you kind of gave the example of being able to empower
athletes with the ability to have stuff right now because,
you know, they're not necessarily social media
experts, tech experts. You know, I imagine Saquon
(35:42):
probably has a million photos ofthem taken every single game.
But being able to deliver him, you know, here's the top 10,
whatever it is. How how's this kind of
technology helping athletes as brands or those who want to be
attached to those athletes grow?Yeah.
And you know, Chris, I was just thinking about your, your
comment about kind of the, the following that these athletes
are building. Now, of course, with NIL, it's
(36:04):
starting, starting even earlier.And so they're arriving at the
league with enormous followings to, to begin with.
And I should it's worth mentioning that we work with
about 600 colleges and universities through the photo
shelter platform as well. Most cases it's, it's, it's
athletics and beyond. But in the athletics world,
that's the same need to capture the content, get it to whether
(36:29):
it's sponsors, media or players is now it's it's now kind of
increasing kind of following along the same same paradigm
that the pro leagues have set. So, so now you have the
collegiate athletes who are like, get me my content.
I want it right after the game. Let's go, let's go.
You know, it's, it's been an age-old kind of symbiotic
(36:50):
relationship where if you talk to kind of the videographers and
the photographers who work at the various teams, they have,
you know, text based relationships with the, with
the, the, whether it's Major League Baseball case, like
pitchers and, and, and the greathitters and whatnot.
And they will send them not justtheir photos from the game, but
maybe the family is there. Take some photos of the family.
(37:12):
And, and just for, for decades, we've known that the
photographers and the players, they have this great, great
relationship, but it's really onthe teams and the leagues to
kind of lean in and invest. And how do you, how do you
formalise this? How do you use it as a
definitive programme to amplify your, your brand?
(37:34):
And it's really been remarkable to see each of the leagues kind
of get there at some, some level, some capacity.
What we've seen the NFL do is they've, they've left no stone
unturned really, when it comes to how do you amplify, you know,
how do you amplify and grow the value of the NFL brand?
And so not only are they savvy about getting content to the
(38:00):
players themselves, but they also have a college social
programme where, let's say Justin Jefferson of the
Minnesota Vikings scores a incredible touchdown.
They're not just sending it to him, but they're also sending it
to, I believe he went to LSU. So LSU is receiving content as
well so that they can help amplify that moment too.
(38:20):
So so I think if depending on the category, you look at
different leagues and it's we'renot just talking about the, you
know, the top marquee pro leagues, but all the way to kind
of more developing leagues like pro volleyball, like the
pickleball leagues. World Surf League is a fantastic
example that we work with where they're identifying this great
(38:43):
opportunity to activate the athletes in this, you know,
content relationship. Get the content to to them and
make sure that they have it as fast as possible to to be able
to share it after and long term.Andrew, we've talked a lot, a
lot about different stakeholdersranging from the athletes to the
teams to the leagues to all the brands, to all the different
(39:06):
stakeholders, even families and other affiliate universities.
There's quite a lot there. Just do you have a rough feel of
where the bulk of consumption and use typically sits in any of
the examples you shared? Like is it 75% team and a little
bit of a sprinkling of everyone else or is it really disparate?
I'm imagining it's quite disparate across the lot.
(39:27):
But let's, if you anything you can give us a take on there.
It, it is fairly disparate, especially because the
activation and the, the moment is, is different, right?
Like the NFL, it's typically once a week where the actual
game is taking place. Major League Baseball, it's just
about every night. Basketball, it's just about
every night. And so it does really tend to
(39:50):
vary. But what I think is the nucleus,
where it starts is really you have a marketing team and a
creative team and the marketing team, there's some sort of
friction. They need to get their hands on
that content to do their jobs better.
There's tremendous pressure coming on them to produce more
(40:13):
and get it out to market, whether that be actual kind of
social or. Web or the sort of next media
guide or fan even like yearbooksand you know some teams have
their own TV networks and magazines and things like that.
So the pressure on the marketersand the designers, we do actual
(40:35):
surveys and they're telling us they've never been under
pressure like they are under today because of this demand.
The demand is insatiable. And, and so if there's friction
in that process of getting the content, so the like, like
earlier I said, the right content, the right audience at
the right time. If there's friction there,
(40:55):
they're telling us that it's impeding their ability to make
money, not just kind of connect with fans and make everybody
happy, but it's impeding their ability to make money.
So what we've, what we've tried to do is just streamline all
those processes in a way that works best for them.
But the, that nucleus, whether it's photographers,
(41:15):
videographers, designers, the content is there, the marketers
need it. So they come to us screaming and
say, you have to help us. You'd think that we'd be good
about this already, but we're not.
We have content everywhere. Can you help get it in one
place? And so, so then it starts in
that kind of small area. And then the savvy teams,
whether it be kind of our directcustomer could either be the
(41:38):
content creator teams, so the creative teams or the marketers,
then they will figure out how toget more audiences and
stakeholders throughout their organisation using it.
And that's how they then kind ofAtlanta Falcons, great example.
They actually went on a tour, they called it the Dam Tour, and
they met with departments throughout the company to say,
(41:58):
this is this treasure trove of content that's sitting right
here inside of our organisation.Here's how you can use it.
Now let's talk about how you canuse it to do what you do better.
And so amplifying the usage, it's, you know, in software,
it's this concept of user acceptance.
And so the more enablement that we can help the customer do and
(42:22):
do through their organisation, the more hands, the more
searches, the more downloads across our platform, we're
seeing over 60 million searches a year and I think about 20
petabytes of customer data. So there they're sitting on a
lot of photos and videos. I love it when someone
references a number that I don'teven know what that looks like.
(42:45):
It sounds so big, but it sounds like a lot.
It's the only thing I have petabytes there.
Just in terms of looking to start wrapping this up a little
bit, Andrew, you mentioned before like you guys aren't just
working specifically with sports.
And I think maybe one of the things would be interesting is
sometimes in our world there's alot of people that build sports
specific solutions. But I would say the challenge
(43:05):
with that is that's maybe perhaps taking a narrow lens on
things and there is things to learn.
I just be curious whether it's within a product that photo
shelters developed that is then moved on to the sports world or
there's something you think other, you know, organisations
outside the sports world are doing.
What sort of cross learnings have there been or what cross
learnings could there be? I'm just, I'm interested.
(43:26):
We've not necessarily focused onthe other, you know, verticals
within your business, but does any of that tie over to the
sports side? It genuinely does, Chris, if
you, if you think about sports as like a like a capsule or a
microcosm and, and in some cases, especially the real time
nature of sports is causing sports to be out ahead in how
things move quickly. And what we've found is that
(43:49):
when we turn to our other customer verticals, other
categories like education, I referenced other live events
like music and entertainment, but even just the corporate
world generally, people are asking how can we, how can we
move quicker? How can we move content from our
street team that has a event on the streets of New York City to
(44:11):
social media? Same same basic workflow as a
Super Bowl and a sports team. We have actually Chris, we
talked about the the great city of Cincinnati love it and we're
working with the team at at visit Cincy to.
They are using the photo shelterplatform for DAM for content,
(44:35):
workflow and social distribution.
They do a series of events through the year that promote
the city of Cincinnati. There's culinary events, there's
art events, so they need to use content that they've already
produced to promote those events, and they also are
engaging the various participants in those events.
That could be your athletes thatto help promote it.
(44:58):
So capturing the content and andhaving the participants share it
as well. So that's just this is kind of 1
paradigm in the education space.We're seeing that same real time
workflow at graduation and otherspecial events that are
happening on on campus too. Well, I'm glad to hear my
hometown Cincinnati, our innovators, we've always been
(45:19):
leaders, we've always been greatpeople.
So I'm glad if we're going to wrap this up, we've talked about
what an excellent example. I'm just one of many that
present the great city of Cincinnati.
Absolutely. Awesome.
Well, Andrew, I appreciate you taking us through all that.
Some of the different examples, I think if anything comes across
and Nick's mentioned, there's just more and more sports
organisations are no longer just, you know, functioning
(45:42):
bodies that produce competitionsor organised teams.
They have to be media first businesses.
And I think technology like whatPhoto Shelter is providing is
just simply enabling those teamsto leverage that.
And you know, you talked about 5050 between near live versus
the archive stuff. You know, there's probably more
we could have talked about from an archive perspective.
I do appreciate you coming on and giving us so much insights.
(46:02):
Thank you. Well, it's great to be here.
I'm excited to see what's next from Sports Pro as well, so
we'll be in touch. Good stuff.
Thanks, Andrew. Now before you go, if you liked
what you heard today, be sure torate and review and just let me
know what you think on social. You can find me on most social
platforms at Sports Pro Nick. And please do spread the word of
the podcast. There's no better way of
marketing than word of mouth, whether that be in person or on
(46:24):
social media. And if you don't like what
you've heard, what you think we should be doing more or less of
something, then reach out and let me know as I'd love to hear
from you. Thanks.
Stream timers until next time.
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