November 28, 2025 • 21 mins
In this episode of StreamTime Sports, CEO Nick Meacham is joined by Moe Hamdhaidari, Director of Content at Two Circles, to dive into the rapidly evolving ‘For You’ economy. Moe breaks down how algorithm-driven discovery, shifting audience behaviours, and the rise of Gen Z and Gen Alpha are transforming the way sports organisations build content strategies.
The discussion explores why sports continue to outperform entertainment, how rights holders can expand into new genres without inflating budgets, and what data-driven content models look like when executed well.
Key Points:
- Why traditional content consumption is flattening while sports continue to grow.
- What the ‘For You’ economy means for rights holders, and why content now needs to find fans.
- How sports organisations can double content output without increasing production spend.
- What “tripling your genres” looks like as culture, fashion and lifestyle become essential.
- Why YouTube is becoming the new TV, and how to build bespoke strategies for TikTok and other platforms.
- How Gen Z and Gen Alpha behaviours are shaping the next era of content consumption.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Hello everyone and welcome to another edition of Streaming
Time Sports. I'm your host Dick Meacham, CEO
at Sports Pro Now. Today's hot topic is about
content and the attention economy.
Now 2 Circles, one of the major media consultants, management
consultants that exist in sports, has recently released a
study called For You. It talks about the changes in
(00:27):
how the consumption of content, video and social is changing at
our such a rapid rate. It's a really interesting study
and I got a chance to spend sometime talking to the Director of
content about the study and its findings at the Sport for Media
Summit in Madrid. Now, some big things that come
out of it is consumption is flattening.
(00:48):
We need to double our output andtriple our genres.
Not sure what I mean? Well, take a listen to my
conversation with Moe Hamtai Dowry from 2 Circles recorded
backstage at the Sports Pro Media Summit and it'll explain a
little bit more. I hope you enjoy.
So Mode 2 Circles touches prettymuch every aspect of sports
(01:11):
business these days. Today we're going to look at
some of the work you've done with a couple of key partners,
particularly around content and media.
Now take us through particularlysome of the work you've been
doing with the UEFA Women's Champions League.
Yeah. Look, I think it's a good point.
To say we've had a 12 month of transformation would be an
understatement. We've almost doubled in size.
(01:31):
We've taken on new capabilities with the acquisition of Spring
Media and core technologies in the state.
And what that has enabled us to do is bring a whole new set of
capabilities for our partners. So the UEFA Women's Champions
League that you mentioned, we are going to market globally for
them to sell their media rights and their sponsorship.
And that's something that wasn'tnecessarily in our arsenal
(01:53):
before. In in addition to that, we're
also providing a whole host of marketing services that will
help grow the value of their audiences and the value of their
media rights. And it's a really exciting time
because as I mentioned, we didn't necessarily have this
capability a year ago and now wedo.
And, and that has enabled us to to, to go to market and find new
(02:15):
partners. So another one that is worth
mentioning is L&R Top 14. Again, we are globally selling
their media rights. We are about to relaunch their
OTT platform. So maybe next year at this, at
this event, we'll come and see you again, we'll talk, we'll
talk about that. And also we're helping them with
their global audience growth by looking after their social
(02:38):
platforms. So it is an interconnected sets
of capabilities that we're bringing to, we're bringing into
the fore and we're we're very proud of it. 2 Circles exists to
make a better future for the sport and entertainment
industry, and we do that by knowing fans best and it.
Seems like content and media seems to be the the end point, I
(02:59):
suppose of all the work that youguys do around strategy that you
doing a lot of strategy work with a lot of the sports
properties. Can you just paint a bit of the
picture for those that aren't quite familiar with what is 2
circles role typically these days with a sports property?
I know it's varied, but can you paint a bit maybe the ideal
picture of what that relationship looks like and some
more specific examples of maybe more bit more tailored the work
(03:22):
you're doing? Absolutely.
So in essence, there are 5 sub capabilities, if you like, of
what 2 circles can bring for itspartners and the industry.
And those are the traditional work that we did, which was in
effect consulting. There is then a technology arm,
which we haven't even touched upon, but we can do at maybe
your April events. There is then the content world,
(03:44):
which is the one that I sit in and straddle and work with with
my colleagues and the other teams.
There is then the media rights business and then there is the
rights management and sponsorship sales.
So if you think about that as a whole host of services,
effectively we can look to bringa solution to any of the
challenges that our partners in sport and entertainment industry
(04:05):
are having. And to touch upon your point
there in content, content is theshop window, right?
It is what connects with fans. And we're working with a whole
host of our clients to to ensurethat we're helping them grow
their audiences and grow their revenues.
And those two things go hand in hand.
If you're growing the value of your brand, if you're growing
your audiences, you can then grow your revenues as well.
So when you're talking to these different rights holders that
(04:26):
exist in the market, what are the main, let's call it, let's
say, weaknesses that they need most help on?
Is it the commercial side or is it the content just creation
itself? It's a bit of chicken and egg
sometimes, right? It is, and that you've hit.
You've hit the nail on the head.There it is, chicken and egg.
What we are seeing is that the global IP rights holder business
(04:46):
last year was worth $170 billionand we're projecting that by
2020, 2032, beg your pardon, it will be worth $260 billion.
So there is growth. We are in a golden age for
sports and there is going to be a whole amount of growth for
rights holders. What we're seeing is that there
(05:08):
needs to be innovation because the big will get bigger and the
percentage at which they get bigger arguably may remain the
same or or decline. But for those that aren't
necessarily in those premium, premium spaces, if you like,
they need to find additional ways of building relationships
and direct consumer routes with their fans.
And that means by looking at howthey can expand their content
(05:31):
services, but also their engagement techniques and their
experiential and their, and their international growth,
etcetera, etcetera. And my, my belief is that high
content sat at the heart of everything that you do.
Connected to the brand is a key driver in that.
Not to labour on the point too much, but the work that two
circles does, there's a real strong strategy component, but
(05:51):
then there's also the execution component.
So, and sometimes you're doing both of those things for people,
sometimes it's just one or the other.
Absolutely. We look at them as levers that
our clients can pull on so they can take the whole suite of
services if they like, or they can just come to us for a small
bid. We worked with international
federations that want us to justwrite their content strategy and
(06:13):
then hand it over. Equally, we've worked with
international federations like the International Canoe
Federation, where we are their host broadcast partner.
So we are effectively creating their unilateral feed that goes
to all their broadcasters. And we've done that by bringing
in our expertise in audience growth and overlaying that on
top of the host broadcast services that we provide.
(06:35):
And that means that the ICF haven't had to compromise on
quality. So the output for the, for the
feeds was remained the same. And in fact, I was, I was with
our partners. And he said that a couple of
their broadcasters have come back to them and said, are you
spending more on your, on your broadcast feed?
And he said, no, we're spending less because what we've been
able to do is think smartly about where we're putting our
(06:56):
investment. And in effect through that
savings that we've been able to bring for the ICF, we've been
able to then create new digital strands for them and create
outputs on their social platforms that has effectively
helped bring more people into their ecosystem.
And, and this there is a, there is a report going out because
ultimately we believe you're in a for you economy.
(07:19):
And you'll see in the report that the ICF have reported that
that savings that we've been able to bring them has enabled
them to 10X their content output.
That's a pretty, pretty big juicy number.
You mentioned that for you economy report which I saw came
out very recently. Just talk to me a bit about what
the thesis there is around for you.
Absolutely. The hypothesis is that we are
(07:40):
now in a in an age where you don't find content anymore.
Content finds you serve, not search.
And that's quite a big thing to say.
The reason we believe we've reached out is because of the
algorithms and because of socialmedia.
And we can talk about that untilthe sun goes down, but I think
you're on stage in a minute, so we won't.
What we've seen is that from 2008 to 2022, there was a growth
(08:07):
in the amount of time people were spending with media.
And by media, we're talking about everything from TV and
radio to computers to tablets tosmartphones.
Now, if you recall, the iPhone came out 2000 and nine, 2010,
and that consumption exploded. But interestingly, what we've
seen is that between 2022 and 2024, the rate at which people
(08:30):
are consuming content has plateaued.
It's not it's not got any bigger.
And that's not really a surprisebecause ultimately we've all got
24 hours in a day. And so the amount that we're
spending with media has remainedstagnant.
But what we are seeing and what is really fascinating is that
during that same period, the amount of time people are
(08:51):
consuming sports content has grown from 6% to 10%.
So from 2008 to 2000 and to 2024.
And that effectively means that sport is starting to eat
entertainment. And that's A and that's a.
That's an interesting phrase that that we like.
Interesting, interesting start that I remember hearing, I think
it was the Netflix Co CEO stating that their biggest
(09:13):
competitor was sleep right, which I think probably gives a
bit of a bit of insult to where that's all going.
You mentioned consumption, you know, appears to be going up
from a sports perspective, whichis obviously interesting.
One of the things that was interesting in that study was
the supply versus demand aspect.Just talk a bit more about how
you're seeing supply grow, you go up in terms of consumption
(09:35):
generally. Yeah.
Look, I mean, supply seems to beinfinite, demand is finite and
those those two things don't match, right?
There's 8 billion people in the world probably right now.
They've only got a certain amount of time that are able to
consume content. And so that clash means that
(09:56):
sports within the next decade, within that golden decade and
already knowing that they're starting to eat entertainment's
lunch, has a real opportunity toincrease the amount of time that
people are spending within new media by bringing their
attention back. And, and what we tend to say
(10:16):
there is the way to do that is to look at your content output.
And one of the, one of the otherfigures that's the study talks
about is doubling your content output as a, as a sports rights
holder. Now that doesn't mean that you
have to go and create a whole host of new content that just
talk, talks about smarter ways in which you can repackage what
you've got. It's not, we're not talking
(10:37):
about creative chaos. We're talking about creative
clarity and being able to repackage content for different
platforms and feeding the algorithm so that you can
interject at various points during that for you economy and
ensure that you're in people's vision rather than their
periphery. And stop putting a lot of time
and effort into things that aren't really working
(10:58):
ultimately. Exactly that and and and
ultimately what feeds that doubling of your content should
be data. You should be data-driven.
You should know about your audience segmentation and where
your growth opportunities are. And this is something that
clearly are two circles we XLS by identifying the personas,
they are more likely to interactwith your brands.
(11:19):
You can then create plans that effectively target the low
hanging fruit, bring more peopleinto your ecosystem and thereby
stay more relevant and keep growing your brand.
So when you're talking to some of the rights holders you're
working with, how does that conversation go with like you're
talking to them and saying, look, the stuff you've been
doing, this is not really working and they're telling you
we're doing or this is what we do.
(11:39):
This is what we've always done. We're going to be letting down
this set of our audience by not doing this piece of content.
Are they pretty receptive these days or do you still have to
find a lot of, you know, education I suppose going on?
They are receptive and yet it isa journey to go on because there
are, to your point, some alreadywithstanding systems and and
(12:00):
elements that might not be working and our and our
expertise is to go in and to be able to challenge the status quo
and bring what is needed. Another stat that we haven't
touched upon is that by the end of this year, 26% of the world's
population will be 14 and under.They will be younger than the
iPhone and they are consuming content in a whole different
(12:22):
way. And so when we talk to our
partners and our clients about future proofing their business
to ensure that they can keep growing within the next 10 years
and and be a part of that $260 billion that I mentioned, we're
not. We often talk about future fans
and bring in some clarity to theway in which they can connect
(12:42):
with them in the future as well.And that's in addition to all of
the other bits that we talked about, which is right now, how
can I grow? How can I connect more?
How can I make sure that I am within the 4U economy, at the
forefront of people stores, so acomplex challenge for the sport
industry. That 260 billion, I mean, you
mentioned, I remember seeing thereport that was produced for
that. In fact, I spoke to Gareth and
(13:03):
your your CEO about that report and host one of you the events
that you guys had at out in Stockholm.
And it was interesting to get aninsight into know the economics
model there. And the fact, you know, not
double counting some of the revenue, which I think people
might not understand or appreciate how difficult that
is, because you'll see reported numbers from different sources,
but to see find a single source for that revenue.
(13:25):
Is it, is it quite a bit a big piece of work?
So look, I think it's definitelyworth checking out those reports
and the the for you piece of work that you guys have done.
What's other some of the other advice that perhaps you and the
team are sharing. There was something I think in
the report around tripling your genres.
I'm curious to know what what that means.
It's a good question. The sports industry, as I
(13:46):
mentioned, is starting to eat the entertainments lunch, but
there are sport adjacent verticals that are in our fans
periphery and we're talking about fashion, we're talking
about music, we're talking aboutculture, lifestyle, mental
well-being and, and, and, and sothe advice that we're giving is
that to make sure you don't juststay within life sport, go a bit
(14:08):
wider. Think about what could resonate
with your fans. So if you remember, I talked
about genre mapping and finding out where your fans are and
where you could bring the most return, look to see what they're
doing and then triple the genresthat you're putting out for them
to bring them into your, into your ecosystem.
Another start that we often talkabout is then 5X in your big
(14:29):
moments, making moments massive.This is a this is a mantra that
we have, which effectively meansthat when your biggest thing is
happening, when your crescendo is happening, plan, plan and
then plan for the unplanned and make sure that you are putting
in as as much content as you canto make sure that you're staying
in within the people's within the people's periphery in that
(14:51):
for you economy. Now we're.
Here at the Sports for Media Summit, and a lot of the
conversation has been around offplatforms.
Let's call, you know, let's say YouTube is clearly the top, top
topic this year. They've raised themselves to the
top of the conversation in, in almost every aspect of sports
media right now, but also all the other social media platforms
are, are playing such an important role.
Where do you do you see any trends from the clients you're
(15:14):
working with as to where they'refocused on?
Is it focusing on YouTube and, and doubling down there?
Is it just being, you know, omnipresent across all of them
or is there one that's really standing out as becoming more of
a of a focus right now? It's interesting because we are
getting a lot of queries about YouTube.
YouTube is TV now. I think last year for the first
time YouTube consumption on big screens overtook on smaller
(15:38):
screens. So if you're like 10 foot
devices in the US and I am almost convinced we'll see the
same in EMEA this year. So we are getting a lot of
queries about what what should Ido on YouTube.
YouTube clearly has a whole hostof monetization that are
prevalent within it. And again, we're advising our
partners on clients on how to dothat because YouTube isn't just
(16:01):
necessarily throw a video on there and hope for the best.
You need to have a clear strategy around what your long
form content's doing, what your short form content's doing, what
your shorts are doing, what yourcommunity management is.
And, and, and, and, and the other piece that we get asked a
lot about is what should I do on, on Omni channels, as you
mentioned. And what we often tie that back
to is the goals of that business, because you could
(16:22):
throw money at it all, but ultimately, if you're not
aligned to what the business is trying to do, you might not get
the return on investment. So we spend a lot of time at the
start of our journeys with our clients strategizing based on
the business goals and then we can give them our
recommendations in terms of their content output.
So I want to wrap up shortly, but one, one or two more
questions to go really on the the content side, we have
(16:45):
platforms like YouTube and YouTube Shorts, Instagram and
Reels, and then of course, TikTok.
This vertical video format. I mean, everyone will tell you
you need a different strategy for both or all three.
But do you see it mainly that sports basically needs to have a
always on distributing that content across all three?
(17:07):
Or do you really even have to for those vertical video swipe
platforms? Do you still need to be even
more bespoke for them as well? Our view would always be
bespoke, A1 size fits all model doesn't work.
TikTok, for example, you can be a bit more fun, you can be a bit
more personality driven. You don't have to be as, and I
use this this this term lightly as dry as maybe as some of your
(17:30):
other platforms. Instagram can be a bit more
authentic, can be a bit more behind the scenes.
So our view is that each of those will need its own bespoke
ish strategy. It doesn't have to be from
scratch, but there does need to be nuanced between those between
those platforms. But to your point about vertical
video, what the data is showing us is the vertical video has 58%
(17:51):
more engagement on mobile videos.
We know that, that just makes a lot of sense.
And the other piece of data point is that people will tend
to remember the brand 90% more through a vertical video than
any other than any other format.So vertical video is here to
stay. And our our advice really is to
have a global vertical video strategy, but then have those
(18:12):
nuances in terms of the tone of voice, the cadence at which
you're feeding the algorithm andthe type of content that you're
putting out based on that, basedon the platforms I.
Was speaking to Rolo Goldstalb from TikTok yesterday and he
basically said from Tik Tok's perspective, you can't do
enough. Basically on the platform you
can just keep pushing out more stuff.
Obviously the better, more better the the better it'll do,
(18:35):
but you just got to keep going and keep pushing hard on those
on those platforms. So I'd be interested to see how
does where we get to in the coming years with regards to
content production. And if doubling your content is
is where, where's the point where enough is is enough,
right? Yeah.
Well, yeah, indeed. And I think the algorithms will
tell us, right, because the platforms do change every every
day, every every every couple ofmonths they change.
(18:58):
We're very fortunate to have relationships with those
platforms and we get foresight of what's coming.
And that's, that's what enables us to, to be able to help our
partners the best. But to your point around TikTok,
you know, the consumption that we're seeing around that in
terms of Gen Z and Gen Alpha is,is huge.
It's humongous. But actually the other thing
that we're seeing is that that that Gen Z and Gen Alpha put a
lot of emphasis on different types of content, on
(19:19):
sustainability, mental well-being.
And those are elements that I fundamentally believe as we, as
sports marketeers and the platform that we have should be
at the forefront of what we're doing.
Because ultimately, as I said, at 2 Servers, we're trying to
build a better future for the sport and entertainment
industry. But we don't just mean that
commercially. We mean that sustainably.
We mean that inclusively and we mean that responsibly as well.
(19:41):
Final question for you. You talked about the different
types of content, different types of genres.
The thing that stands out to me is that these different types of
genres are stepping away from what the core sports product is.
You know, it's leading into culture, leading into
entertainment, music, etcetera. And some people get a little bit
resistant to that. My question for you is, doesn't
matter. Doesn't matter if you're
(20:02):
surfacing, serving content that isn't just a live natural
highlights. If you're getting engagement on
the platform, what what should do you need?
Sports need to be apprehensive of publishing, I don't know,
content that isn't truly closelyaligned with the sport itself.
No, no, I I don't. And the reason for that is that
we're already seeing that Shift.Gen Z and Jan Alpha consume
(20:23):
sport content in a different way.
And if we're not providing them with those cultural moments,
with those crossovers into fashion, into music, into all of
those things that they're already consuming, then I think
we're missing an opportunity. And so whilst the product
remains the same and will alwaysbe consumed in that way, I have
a belief that sports needs to goa bit wider.
(20:44):
Interesting. Well, look, it's been really
great to talk to you, MO and learn a bit more about your
views on what we need to be doing around content and media
and do what 22 Circles is up to.But that is all we've got time
for for today. Thanks very much, MO.
Thanks, Nick.
Hello everyone and welcome to another edition of Streaming
Time Sports. I'm your host Dick Meacham, CEO
at Sports Pro Now. Today's hot topic is about
content and the attention economy.
Now 2 Circles, one of the major media consultants, management
consultants that exist in sports, has recently released a
study called For You. It talks about the changes in
(00:27):
how the consumption of content, video and social is changing at
our such a rapid rate. It's a really interesting study
and I got a chance to spend sometime talking to the Director of
content about the study and its findings at the Sport for Media
Summit in Madrid. Now, some big things that come
out of it is consumption is flattening.
(00:48):
We need to double our output andtriple our genres.
Not sure what I mean? Well, take a listen to my
conversation with Moe Hamtai Dowry from 2 Circles recorded
backstage at the Sports Pro Media Summit and it'll explain a
little bit more. I hope you enjoy.
So Mode 2 Circles touches prettymuch every aspect of sports
(01:11):
business these days. Today we're going to look at
some of the work you've done with a couple of key partners,
particularly around content and media.
Now take us through particularlysome of the work you've been
doing with the UEFA Women's Champions League.
Yeah. Look, I think it's a good point.
To say we've had a 12 month of transformation would be an
understatement. We've almost doubled in size.
(01:31):
We've taken on new capabilities with the acquisition of Spring
Media and core technologies in the state.
And what that has enabled us to do is bring a whole new set of
capabilities for our partners. So the UEFA Women's Champions
League that you mentioned, we are going to market globally for
them to sell their media rights and their sponsorship.
And that's something that wasn'tnecessarily in our arsenal
(01:53):
before. In in addition to that, we're
also providing a whole host of marketing services that will
help grow the value of their audiences and the value of their
media rights. And it's a really exciting time
because as I mentioned, we didn't necessarily have this
capability a year ago and now wedo.
And, and that has enabled us to to, to go to market and find new
(02:15):
partners. So another one that is worth
mentioning is L&R Top 14. Again, we are globally selling
their media rights. We are about to relaunch their
OTT platform. So maybe next year at this, at
this event, we'll come and see you again, we'll talk, we'll
talk about that. And also we're helping them with
their global audience growth by looking after their social
(02:38):
platforms. So it is an interconnected sets
of capabilities that we're bringing to, we're bringing into
the fore and we're we're very proud of it. 2 Circles exists to
make a better future for the sport and entertainment
industry, and we do that by knowing fans best and it.
Seems like content and media seems to be the the end point, I
(02:59):
suppose of all the work that youguys do around strategy that you
doing a lot of strategy work with a lot of the sports
properties. Can you just paint a bit of the
picture for those that aren't quite familiar with what is 2
circles role typically these days with a sports property?
I know it's varied, but can you paint a bit maybe the ideal
picture of what that relationship looks like and some
more specific examples of maybe more bit more tailored the work
(03:22):
you're doing? Absolutely.
So in essence, there are 5 sub capabilities, if you like, of
what 2 circles can bring for itspartners and the industry.
And those are the traditional work that we did, which was in
effect consulting. There is then a technology arm,
which we haven't even touched upon, but we can do at maybe
your April events. There is then the content world,
(03:44):
which is the one that I sit in and straddle and work with with
my colleagues and the other teams.
There is then the media rights business and then there is the
rights management and sponsorship sales.
So if you think about that as a whole host of services,
effectively we can look to bringa solution to any of the
challenges that our partners in sport and entertainment industry
(04:05):
are having. And to touch upon your point
there in content, content is theshop window, right?
It is what connects with fans. And we're working with a whole
host of our clients to to ensurethat we're helping them grow
their audiences and grow their revenues.
And those two things go hand in hand.
If you're growing the value of your brand, if you're growing
your audiences, you can then grow your revenues as well.
So when you're talking to these different rights holders that
(04:26):
exist in the market, what are the main, let's call it, let's
say, weaknesses that they need most help on?
Is it the commercial side or is it the content just creation
itself? It's a bit of chicken and egg
sometimes, right? It is, and that you've hit.
You've hit the nail on the head.There it is, chicken and egg.
What we are seeing is that the global IP rights holder business
(04:46):
last year was worth $170 billionand we're projecting that by
2020, 2032, beg your pardon, it will be worth $260 billion.
So there is growth. We are in a golden age for
sports and there is going to be a whole amount of growth for
rights holders. What we're seeing is that there
(05:08):
needs to be innovation because the big will get bigger and the
percentage at which they get bigger arguably may remain the
same or or decline. But for those that aren't
necessarily in those premium, premium spaces, if you like,
they need to find additional ways of building relationships
and direct consumer routes with their fans.
And that means by looking at howthey can expand their content
(05:31):
services, but also their engagement techniques and their
experiential and their, and their international growth,
etcetera, etcetera. And my, my belief is that high
content sat at the heart of everything that you do.
Connected to the brand is a key driver in that.
Not to labour on the point too much, but the work that two
circles does, there's a real strong strategy component, but
(05:51):
then there's also the execution component.
So, and sometimes you're doing both of those things for people,
sometimes it's just one or the other.
Absolutely. We look at them as levers that
our clients can pull on so they can take the whole suite of
services if they like, or they can just come to us for a small
bid. We worked with international
federations that want us to justwrite their content strategy and
(06:13):
then hand it over. Equally, we've worked with
international federations like the International Canoe
Federation, where we are their host broadcast partner.
So we are effectively creating their unilateral feed that goes
to all their broadcasters. And we've done that by bringing
in our expertise in audience growth and overlaying that on
top of the host broadcast services that we provide.
(06:35):
And that means that the ICF haven't had to compromise on
quality. So the output for the, for the
feeds was remained the same. And in fact, I was, I was with
our partners. And he said that a couple of
their broadcasters have come back to them and said, are you
spending more on your, on your broadcast feed?
And he said, no, we're spending less because what we've been
able to do is think smartly about where we're putting our
(06:56):
investment. And in effect through that
savings that we've been able to bring for the ICF, we've been
able to then create new digital strands for them and create
outputs on their social platforms that has effectively
helped bring more people into their ecosystem.
And, and this there is a, there is a report going out because
ultimately we believe you're in a for you economy.
(07:19):
And you'll see in the report that the ICF have reported that
that savings that we've been able to bring them has enabled
them to 10X their content output.
That's a pretty, pretty big juicy number.
You mentioned that for you economy report which I saw came
out very recently. Just talk to me a bit about what
the thesis there is around for you.
Absolutely. The hypothesis is that we are
(07:40):
now in a in an age where you don't find content anymore.
Content finds you serve, not search.
And that's quite a big thing to say.
The reason we believe we've reached out is because of the
algorithms and because of socialmedia.
And we can talk about that untilthe sun goes down, but I think
you're on stage in a minute, so we won't.
What we've seen is that from 2008 to 2022, there was a growth
(08:07):
in the amount of time people were spending with media.
And by media, we're talking about everything from TV and
radio to computers to tablets tosmartphones.
Now, if you recall, the iPhone came out 2000 and nine, 2010,
and that consumption exploded. But interestingly, what we've
seen is that between 2022 and 2024, the rate at which people
(08:30):
are consuming content has plateaued.
It's not it's not got any bigger.
And that's not really a surprisebecause ultimately we've all got
24 hours in a day. And so the amount that we're
spending with media has remainedstagnant.
But what we are seeing and what is really fascinating is that
during that same period, the amount of time people are
(08:51):
consuming sports content has grown from 6% to 10%.
So from 2008 to 2000 and to 2024.
And that effectively means that sport is starting to eat
entertainment. And that's A and that's a.
That's an interesting phrase that that we like.
Interesting, interesting start that I remember hearing, I think
it was the Netflix Co CEO stating that their biggest
(09:13):
competitor was sleep right, which I think probably gives a
bit of a bit of insult to where that's all going.
You mentioned consumption, you know, appears to be going up
from a sports perspective, whichis obviously interesting.
One of the things that was interesting in that study was
the supply versus demand aspect.Just talk a bit more about how
you're seeing supply grow, you go up in terms of consumption
(09:35):
generally. Yeah.
Look, I mean, supply seems to beinfinite, demand is finite and
those those two things don't match, right?
There's 8 billion people in the world probably right now.
They've only got a certain amount of time that are able to
consume content. And so that clash means that
(09:56):
sports within the next decade, within that golden decade and
already knowing that they're starting to eat entertainment's
lunch, has a real opportunity toincrease the amount of time that
people are spending within new media by bringing their
attention back. And, and what we tend to say
(10:16):
there is the way to do that is to look at your content output.
And one of the, one of the otherfigures that's the study talks
about is doubling your content output as a, as a sports rights
holder. Now that doesn't mean that you
have to go and create a whole host of new content that just
talk, talks about smarter ways in which you can repackage what
you've got. It's not, we're not talking
(10:37):
about creative chaos. We're talking about creative
clarity and being able to repackage content for different
platforms and feeding the algorithm so that you can
interject at various points during that for you economy and
ensure that you're in people's vision rather than their
periphery. And stop putting a lot of time
and effort into things that aren't really working
(10:58):
ultimately. Exactly that and and and
ultimately what feeds that doubling of your content should
be data. You should be data-driven.
You should know about your audience segmentation and where
your growth opportunities are. And this is something that
clearly are two circles we XLS by identifying the personas,
they are more likely to interactwith your brands.
(11:19):
You can then create plans that effectively target the low
hanging fruit, bring more peopleinto your ecosystem and thereby
stay more relevant and keep growing your brand.
So when you're talking to some of the rights holders you're
working with, how does that conversation go with like you're
talking to them and saying, look, the stuff you've been
doing, this is not really working and they're telling you
we're doing or this is what we do.
(11:39):
This is what we've always done. We're going to be letting down
this set of our audience by not doing this piece of content.
Are they pretty receptive these days or do you still have to
find a lot of, you know, education I suppose going on?
They are receptive and yet it isa journey to go on because there
are, to your point, some alreadywithstanding systems and and
(12:00):
elements that might not be working and our and our
expertise is to go in and to be able to challenge the status quo
and bring what is needed. Another stat that we haven't
touched upon is that by the end of this year, 26% of the world's
population will be 14 and under.They will be younger than the
iPhone and they are consuming content in a whole different
(12:22):
way. And so when we talk to our
partners and our clients about future proofing their business
to ensure that they can keep growing within the next 10 years
and and be a part of that $260 billion that I mentioned, we're
not. We often talk about future fans
and bring in some clarity to theway in which they can connect
(12:42):
with them in the future as well.And that's in addition to all of
the other bits that we talked about, which is right now, how
can I grow? How can I connect more?
How can I make sure that I am within the 4U economy, at the
forefront of people stores, so acomplex challenge for the sport
industry. That 260 billion, I mean, you
mentioned, I remember seeing thereport that was produced for
that. In fact, I spoke to Gareth and
(13:03):
your your CEO about that report and host one of you the events
that you guys had at out in Stockholm.
And it was interesting to get aninsight into know the economics
model there. And the fact, you know, not
double counting some of the revenue, which I think people
might not understand or appreciate how difficult that
is, because you'll see reported numbers from different sources,
but to see find a single source for that revenue.
(13:25):
Is it, is it quite a bit a big piece of work?
So look, I think it's definitelyworth checking out those reports
and the the for you piece of work that you guys have done.
What's other some of the other advice that perhaps you and the
team are sharing. There was something I think in
the report around tripling your genres.
I'm curious to know what what that means.
It's a good question. The sports industry, as I
(13:46):
mentioned, is starting to eat the entertainments lunch, but
there are sport adjacent verticals that are in our fans
periphery and we're talking about fashion, we're talking
about music, we're talking aboutculture, lifestyle, mental
well-being and, and, and, and sothe advice that we're giving is
that to make sure you don't juststay within life sport, go a bit
(14:08):
wider. Think about what could resonate
with your fans. So if you remember, I talked
about genre mapping and finding out where your fans are and
where you could bring the most return, look to see what they're
doing and then triple the genresthat you're putting out for them
to bring them into your, into your ecosystem.
Another start that we often talkabout is then 5X in your big
(14:29):
moments, making moments massive.This is a this is a mantra that
we have, which effectively meansthat when your biggest thing is
happening, when your crescendo is happening, plan, plan and
then plan for the unplanned and make sure that you are putting
in as as much content as you canto make sure that you're staying
in within the people's within the people's periphery in that
(14:51):
for you economy. Now we're.
Here at the Sports for Media Summit, and a lot of the
conversation has been around offplatforms.
Let's call, you know, let's say YouTube is clearly the top, top
topic this year. They've raised themselves to the
top of the conversation in, in almost every aspect of sports
media right now, but also all the other social media platforms
are, are playing such an important role.
Where do you do you see any trends from the clients you're
(15:14):
working with as to where they'refocused on?
Is it focusing on YouTube and, and doubling down there?
Is it just being, you know, omnipresent across all of them
or is there one that's really standing out as becoming more of
a of a focus right now? It's interesting because we are
getting a lot of queries about YouTube.
YouTube is TV now. I think last year for the first
time YouTube consumption on big screens overtook on smaller
(15:38):
screens. So if you're like 10 foot
devices in the US and I am almost convinced we'll see the
same in EMEA this year. So we are getting a lot of
queries about what what should Ido on YouTube.
YouTube clearly has a whole hostof monetization that are
prevalent within it. And again, we're advising our
partners on clients on how to dothat because YouTube isn't just
(16:01):
necessarily throw a video on there and hope for the best.
You need to have a clear strategy around what your long
form content's doing, what your short form content's doing, what
your shorts are doing, what yourcommunity management is.
And, and, and, and, and the other piece that we get asked a
lot about is what should I do on, on Omni channels, as you
mentioned. And what we often tie that back
to is the goals of that business, because you could
(16:22):
throw money at it all, but ultimately, if you're not
aligned to what the business is trying to do, you might not get
the return on investment. So we spend a lot of time at the
start of our journeys with our clients strategizing based on
the business goals and then we can give them our
recommendations in terms of their content output.
So I want to wrap up shortly, but one, one or two more
questions to go really on the the content side, we have
(16:45):
platforms like YouTube and YouTube Shorts, Instagram and
Reels, and then of course, TikTok.
This vertical video format. I mean, everyone will tell you
you need a different strategy for both or all three.
But do you see it mainly that sports basically needs to have a
always on distributing that content across all three?
(17:07):
Or do you really even have to for those vertical video swipe
platforms? Do you still need to be even
more bespoke for them as well? Our view would always be
bespoke, A1 size fits all model doesn't work.
TikTok, for example, you can be a bit more fun, you can be a bit
more personality driven. You don't have to be as, and I
use this this this term lightly as dry as maybe as some of your
(17:30):
other platforms. Instagram can be a bit more
authentic, can be a bit more behind the scenes.
So our view is that each of those will need its own bespoke
ish strategy. It doesn't have to be from
scratch, but there does need to be nuanced between those between
those platforms. But to your point about vertical
video, what the data is showing us is the vertical video has 58%
(17:51):
more engagement on mobile videos.
We know that, that just makes a lot of sense.
And the other piece of data point is that people will tend
to remember the brand 90% more through a vertical video than
any other than any other format.So vertical video is here to
stay. And our our advice really is to
have a global vertical video strategy, but then have those
(18:12):
nuances in terms of the tone of voice, the cadence at which
you're feeding the algorithm andthe type of content that you're
putting out based on that, basedon the platforms I.
Was speaking to Rolo Goldstalb from TikTok yesterday and he
basically said from Tik Tok's perspective, you can't do
enough. Basically on the platform you
can just keep pushing out more stuff.
Obviously the better, more better the the better it'll do,
(18:35):
but you just got to keep going and keep pushing hard on those
on those platforms. So I'd be interested to see how
does where we get to in the coming years with regards to
content production. And if doubling your content is
is where, where's the point where enough is is enough,
right? Yeah.
Well, yeah, indeed. And I think the algorithms will
tell us, right, because the platforms do change every every
day, every every every couple ofmonths they change.
(18:58):
We're very fortunate to have relationships with those
platforms and we get foresight of what's coming.
And that's, that's what enables us to, to be able to help our
partners the best. But to your point around TikTok,
you know, the consumption that we're seeing around that in
terms of Gen Z and Gen Alpha is,is huge.
It's humongous. But actually the other thing
that we're seeing is that that that Gen Z and Gen Alpha put a
lot of emphasis on different types of content, on
(19:19):
sustainability, mental well-being.
And those are elements that I fundamentally believe as we, as
sports marketeers and the platform that we have should be
at the forefront of what we're doing.
Because ultimately, as I said, at 2 Servers, we're trying to
build a better future for the sport and entertainment
industry. But we don't just mean that
commercially. We mean that sustainably.
We mean that inclusively and we mean that responsibly as well.
(19:41):
Final question for you. You talked about the different
types of content, different types of genres.
The thing that stands out to me is that these different types of
genres are stepping away from what the core sports product is.
You know, it's leading into culture, leading into
entertainment, music, etcetera. And some people get a little bit
resistant to that. My question for you is, doesn't
matter. Doesn't matter if you're
(20:02):
surfacing, serving content that isn't just a live natural
highlights. If you're getting engagement on
the platform, what what should do you need?
Sports need to be apprehensive of publishing, I don't know,
content that isn't truly closelyaligned with the sport itself.
No, no, I I don't. And the reason for that is that
we're already seeing that Shift.Gen Z and Jan Alpha consume
(20:23):
sport content in a different way.
And if we're not providing them with those cultural moments,
with those crossovers into fashion, into music, into all of
those things that they're already consuming, then I think
we're missing an opportunity. And so whilst the product
remains the same and will alwaysbe consumed in that way, I have
a belief that sports needs to goa bit wider.
(20:44):
Interesting. Well, look, it's been really
great to talk to you, MO and learn a bit more about your
views on what we need to be doing around content and media
and do what 22 Circles is up to.But that is all we've got time
for for today. Thanks very much, MO.
Thanks, Nick.
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