April 23, 2025 • 41 mins
The Phoenix Suns became one of the first American sports franchises to launch a direct-to-consumer streaming platform while other regional sports networks collapsed under financial pressure. In this episode of StreamTime Sports, co-hosts Nick Meacham and Chris Stone explore what it takes for sports properties to go DTC. They’re joined by Dan Costello, Chief Revenue Officer of the Phoenix Suns, and Wim Sweldens, Co-Founder of Kiswe, to discuss how they brought this groundbreaking platform to life.
Key Topics:
- The unique challenges teams face when launching a direct-to-consumer platform, compared to leagues and broadcasters
- Why you're leaving money on the table if you don’t offer multiple monetization options
- How the Phoenix Suns proactively pivoted to DTC as traditional models faltered
- Key considerations when selecting the right technology partners
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:09):
Hello everyone. Welcome back to the Stream Time
Sports podcast. My name is Chris Stone, the
community lead, joined as alwaysby our CEO, Nick Beacham.
Now Nick, this this past weekendwas a big weekend individually
for Rory McIlroy and was also apparently a big weekend for Sky
Sports. If I, if I saw correctly, it's a
single largest day in Sky Sportshistory in terms of viewership.
And I'm going to go out there and say, Nick, I was not one of
(00:30):
those people. I didn't watch a single second
of the Masters. I know I'm putting myself out
there. There's people to PGA Tour like
Scott Gutterman that I really like and I, you know, appreciate
some of the work they're doing. I always find it really
interesting what they're doing. But Nick mentioned it before the
podcast. I don't really watch any
individual sports. So did you watch Roy's historic
day? Am I the?
(00:51):
Am I the only one? I don't know if you're the only
one, I mean, and this comes backto a bigger conversation about
what do you define as someone following it and watching it,
right? Because people could follow a
lot of the action through the app and through the social media
with the near live highlights. And that might be enough for
some to quote UN quote follow itversus tuning in for the live
(01:14):
experience, which is what Sky was promoting.
I actually have to say my experience was pretty disastrous
because I was, I haven't really signed up to any of the, the
local subscription platforms where not bore people with
details, but we're renting, we've got ATV that's on ours and
they haven't got a lot of apps that aren't available on it.
So we've kind of just doing a minimal standard of just one or
(01:36):
two based layer based platforms like Netflix.
And I think, I think that's it. And SVT, which is the, the local
public air BBC equivalent, let'ssay, and that's about it.
And the masters weren't available on those channels.
And I can't even, we don't even have antenna access to watch
the, the other broadcast channels in general terms
(01:57):
anyway. So I couldn't watch it.
Then I was like trying to find how to get access.
And then I look, I think that my, the, the conclusion I came
to was I have to sign up to Viaplay, who has the right here?
I believe I've not done any research on this because I
didn't know you asked me this, but I would, I believe they have
the rights to it. And when I went on there, I, I
(02:17):
couldn't do it on my TV. So I went to on I was on my
phone and that was going to costme the equivalent of about it
only gave me a monthly subscription option.
I think on on my phone. Now someone might tell me
there's another way, but I didn't find that.
And this is thinking about the user experience thing, which I
was living a living and breathing first hand at the
moment. And I remember last year, I
really wanted to watch it. So I, and actually the year
(02:39):
before that, sorry. And I watched it via the now TV
option, which is in in on sky, which is you just get like a 24
hour access or a week long access and pay a premium.
It's it's stupidly expensive forwhat I wanted.
It was like, I don't know, 20 something pounds I think for,
for a day to watch or, or something like that.
I'm like, I'm going to do it because I really, really want to
(03:00):
have the evening cleared. Nothing to annoy me.
But this summer out I couldn't, I wanted to.
I would have been up for that sort of microtransaction.
I just pay a little fee for now.I still don't know if I want to
sign up to via play or the otherbig telcos in the market here.
So so the the cable providers inthe market here or the pay TV
solutions. So that left me in between a
(03:20):
rock and a hard place and then Icouldn't really find a way to
get access to it there. So I was left left a bit
disappointed how all my friends who were, you know, GG fanatics
texting me. Oh, look at that.
Well, this is great and I'm liketrying to find highlights and
there was a really negative experience I have to say.
So I was quite disappointed though I wasn't able to get on
onto the platform and to watch it.
(03:42):
So I'll hopefully be more prepared next time around.
You should have messaged our friend Magnus Fenson.
You know, he, he should know everything about that region.
He could have helped you out, I'm sure.
I should have, you know, but it was about 6-7 in the in the
evening and I was like, at what point do you just give up?
And I think this has come, this comes back to some of the stuff
we're even going to touch upon alittle bit today.
Is this this whole challenge of getting people onto platforms
(04:04):
and and not making it easy enough?
Like I'm a pretty ever fan. I kind of would have been
willing to pay for it, but I haven't made it easy enough and
I'll have to commit to a long term subscription.
It's just that's just not their ideal scenario for someone who
wants to just have an events based experience.
And I would have been happily topay a premium for it if it was
offered to me. So I was a bit let down, happy
for Rory. I would not have watched it to
(04:25):
the end because I think the finishing time was the
equivalent of 1:30 in the morning here because I went to
playoffs. So I wouldn't have been able to
watch it all through and I wouldhave been a bit disappointed
with that. So I I will, I will live to
fight another day. But the different this
definitely I think the you know,the masters, I think if you ask
anyone has a very unique place in the sporting calendar for
(04:46):
those that do follow it. So quite I know people that
aren't golfers that will lock itin their Diaries.
It's something they'll watch hour or shot by shot for the
last few hours of pretty much. Well, definitely the Sunday, if
not the days beforehand. So it's a very uniquely
positioned event that is for sure.
Well, not to get into the political drama between PGA Tour
(05:07):
and live golf, but I saw an interesting photo.
I was comparing side by side where Rory, I forget which
tournament he won, but the the purse was 18,000,000.
I believe the purse, the mastersis only 4 million.
So you're talking 25 less than 25% of the and it's just the
degree of emotion. And like the point of the post
was like, you know, it's not about the paychecks, it's about
the prestige of it all. And it was interesting.
(05:29):
And like I said, I'm, you know, to your point, like Augusta is
different than the other ones, but it was interesting seeing
those photos side by side. You know, maybe Roy had a bigger
celebration and like, the camerajust didn't capture that
particular $18 million paycheck moment.
But it was interesting to your point, sort of, it's not always
about the money, although we spend a lot of time talking
about the money in sports. Well, I don't believe, I think
(05:50):
this is a bit that catches some people out about the majors is I
don't believe that the Masters is officially like owned by the
PGA Tour. It's it's owned stand alone, the
majors and similar to to tennis.So PGA Tour has a huge
influence. I believe that I don't know,
there must be some ranking points are attached to it, but I
do believe there's some, what doyou call it, autonomy there in
(06:11):
how they're operated. I'm in a pretty good position
for the Masters if they can justpay what they like.
And it's got so much privilege behind it that you know, they,
they, they can charge what they like or they can give whatever
they, they like out. And they're obviously very well
known and well regarded for their, I think talked about
probably a little bit too much about the low price food and
drinks and beverage and everything on site.
(06:32):
I think they get a little bit too much coverage on that,
primarily because it's still, it's impossible to get into that
event. You, you need to know someone,
you need to all pay an absolute huge garage to an amount of
money. So whilst it feels noble that
you, the prices are lower, you try and get a ticket in there.
It's one of the most priced tickets in in sports.
So there's a reason for that as well.
(06:52):
Well, the last sort of Side Story I'll talk about with the
PGA Tour, I don't know if you'rea baseball fan at all, Nick
Meacham, but he was one of my idols growing up, despite his
photo not being behind me on my wall of fame here.
But did you see who took the photo that was going around on
social media of Rory on the ground celebrating?
Yeah, I did. That was quite surreal enough.
Did you see the the final shot? Kenny King, Griffey Junior,
(07:14):
obviously the one you're talkingabout.
Did you see the photo that he took at the end?
That got a lot of coverage on social media?
It's with Rory basically celebrating the end.
Yeah, that's, that's the photo I'm talking about.
When I saw it, I was like, what are the odds?
Is there's another man named Kane Griffey Junior then like,
no shit. Like it is actually the Kane
Griffey Junior that took that photo.
I'm glad retirement's going wellfor him, but I I just thought
that was an incredible little Side Story.
(07:36):
What an epic pastime. He's probably got so much money
in the banking industry, what hewants to do and like, you know
what, I'm just going to be really good at photography and
get to travel the world and get,he got basically a full of full
blown media accreditation to, todo because I actually sort of
talked about prior to the event.But this is, you know, for those
that don't know baseball, he's one of the most famous baseball
names. I think that I, I, I remember
(07:57):
hearing of him decades ago or, and his dad, I don't know what,
what the timelines were, but also all I know is that name is
very, very famous in, in baseball.
And so for him to just pop up randomly in the crowd taking
photos, ironically, no one else can take photos.
Remember as well, because of thethe rules there that you have to
put your phones away for the thetournament.
(08:17):
It's a quite a quite a cool vibe, a quite a cool opportunity
for him and he clearly, it clearly paid off.
Yeah, well, he, he's like Tiger Woods in the sense of he used to
have his own video game. It was Ken Griffey Junior on
N64. So he was he was Tiger Woods
status with his own game. And I you mentioned his father.
One of the fun facts is him and his father actually homered.
I believe it was back-to-back inthe same game.
(08:38):
It's like the only time like father and son have ever done
that in baseball history. His father is part of the Big
Red Machine since that. Reds fan here.
So Ken Griffey grew up in Cincinnati, so when he got
traded to the Reds, that was oneof the happiest days of my
childhood. So yeah.
That's quite cool, but. Your point should have been a
unanimous Hall of Famer. One person did not vote for him,
which would have made him the first unanimous.
But we won't get into that. But yeah, it just it was a cool
(09:00):
little Side Story that, you know, the kind of thing sports
makes happen sometimes. You know what, I think sometimes
there's always seems to be a fewside stories that happen around
the masters. And I do think it's probably
because there's not just a million people walking around
the place with cameras out and there's they, they look for
those more unique stories than, I don't know, just the
sensational viral moments that probably are happening
(09:22):
throughout the event. You could only imagine, right?
But they're probably going to get they'll get caught by
anyone. So they have to find something
else to talk about. Well, we'll transition Nick into
to what we're going to talk about today.
And you sort of kind of talked alittle bit about their kind of
your struggles being able to actually tune into the Masters.
And one of the things we're going to be able to do later on
(09:42):
is we've got an interview with the CRO at the Phoenix Suns.
And one of the stories we're going to talk about there is
they are one of the first teams within the NBA to set up their
own D to C streaming platform. Now, this is obviously been off
the back of anyone that's been following the US broadcast news.
There's been a lot going on withthe regional sports networks.
It's impacted the way teams go about doing their broadcast
(10:04):
deals, particularly in the NBA, Major League Baseball, where
unlike the NFL, there's quite a lengthy season that is not going
to get picked up just by your, you know, typical linear
broadcast deals. And it's forced them to have to
figure out what they need to do.And it's an interesting story,
but it's also an interesting wayfor us to kind of go in and talk
more about direct to consumer. And I suppose the thing with
(10:25):
this thing is like it's not the direct consumers knew, but what
would you say are some of the unique challenges for launching
AD to C when you are someone like the Phoenix Suns, someone
you know historically probably relied largely on distribution
of the league deal or you know, just having AB to B deal with
(10:46):
your regional sports networks and now having to do that D to
C? There's so many challenges,
Chris, there's so many challenges.
I think we've learnt a lot over the last few years looking and
following a lot of the the journeys of people who are
launching these types of platforms.
And I mean, I could rattle off aquick, a quick few of them off
the top of my head. But the first thing is, is the
limited and audience scale, right?
You've got these teams that theymay have passionate fan bases,
(11:09):
but part of the uniqueness and growth of basic and professional
sports in the US was built on that scale that basically that
reads through cable and other other channels.
They will have such unlimited audience to play with.
They would have to be really hyper focused on reaching their
localised audiences and trying to and spending so much time and
effort in marketing that platform to fans who can't just
(11:31):
stumble across and have access to it immediately through the
traditional mediums. The other one is obviously
content volume. So if you want to get people to
start subscribing to these services, well, actually
depending on the rights, if it'sonly home games, I'm not sure
the specifics on their situation, but if it's only home
games, you don't make the play offs.
You're talking 40 odd games a year at best.
Now that's only for a portion ofthe year.
(11:53):
So are you going to create a bespoke subscription solution or
can you monetise other ways? Because that means between games
and between the season, there's nothing basically going on on
your platform and how much more extra content you need to create
to basically make that platform viable and worth continue to to
be subscribed to. The other things are like rights
(12:14):
limitations. Obviously if you there's a
league wide rights deal in place, you only have certain
limitations of what you can and can't do with that.
And probably the different ways you can approach striking
distribution deals to get more visibility.
I think one of the things that lost is lost a lot in this
industry is all about the marketing side and how tough it
is to market these products and propositions.
(12:35):
And that's why the broadcasters who've been doing it for a long
time have a much more bandwidth and financial budgets basically
committed to these type of things can basically get these
products out to market much, much quicker and easier than
someone who's doing it from scratch.
And also there's the the expertise of marketing these
products more effectively. And then there's other things
that really stand out to me are things like the technical side.
(12:57):
You have technical infrastructure, you need to have
a whole new host of basically building a tech stack largely
from scratch to do these things.There's the right monetization
approach and then there's inevitably what fans are
expecting from you from terms ofthe delivery and just what
they're expecting in terms of cost wise as well.
So there's so many factors that exist that as someone going into
(13:19):
the space has to be considerate of it's, it's very difficult to
get the right balance from from day one.
Now, speaking specifically from a monetization perspective, it
used to be, and we've talked about this before, like everyone
always thought subscriptions were the the golden ticket.
That was the thing you wanted. And there are still services out
there that do on a subscription basis.
You know, you got MLBTV, the NBA, what they're doing with
their app. You know, there are subscription
(13:41):
services out there. You've also got ad models like
we're seeing introduced with FIFA Plus.
You're seeing kind of mobile outonly deals.
I'm thinking of what is that NFLPlus where it's a it is a
subscription deal, but it's onlyfor streaming on mobile devices
when it comes at a much lower price point because of the
restriction on where it's at. And then, you know, one of our,
you know, businesses that we've,you know, worked with in the
(14:01):
past, and I've highlighted before you look at someone like
a recast, they've recently just signed a deal with NASCAR, which
is around the microtransactions buying, you know, content in
smaller, biteable sizes at key moments, things like that.
You know, when you're talking about bouncing this up and you
know, we, we've used the PhoenixSuns as an argument, but you
could use it for anyone else. If you're trying to figure out
(14:22):
when you have such limitations around what you can and you
can't do, how you choose, which one of those monetization models
is right for you? I just think this the standard
answer is there is no one monetization model and anyone
trying to do it through one single model is almost doomed
for failure, or at least doomed to leave a lot of money on the
table in some way shape or form and to potentially let down
(14:45):
different sets of fans. My view is in in simple, I would
say you need to have a supplementary product that is
for tier one fans. And actually I'll take a step
back here. You would say there's probably
two types of subscription products that exist. 1 is that
it's targeted toward that tier one set of fans.
So it's extra different tools, whether it be multi screen,
whether it's extra data access and insights and extra bespoke
(15:08):
exclusive content, something that super serves A Tier 1 fan
that you can't and wouldn't expect from a traditional
broadcaster. And there's another sort of
subscription, which is where it's the, it's the kitchen sync
subscription, let's call it. That's, that's basically what a
Netflix does. And also all the major streaming
platforms. It's there's just so much
critical mass on the platform at, at a low price.
(15:30):
You just sort of almost can't say no to it.
You just kind of have to subscribe to it.
So I think you've got to look atthings from, from, from that
lane. So if you're launching it
yourself, you can't do the kitchen sink.
The kitchen sink is not viable to you.
So I said, I think you have to have a subscription product that
is that is premium with lots of cool tools and really a value to
AT1 fan. So they go, yeah, that's really
(15:50):
what I want. Then underneath that you've got
to get the right approach on looking at bringing advertising
into the four and digital sponsorships.
Now we're seeing huge growth in digital sponsorships in the in
the sponsorship industry right across the board.
I think it's something like 16% growth year on year across the
US sports marketplace. That's an area that has to be
continual focus point and we talked about it before New York.
(16:12):
That was a huge topic both in advertising and sponsorship.
So premium top level, reduce thefriction of getting onto the
platform, getting access, make sure you have advertising
sponsorship charged up in terms of your approach and don't treat
it as a secondary thing. And then finally, strike some
distribution deals. See how you can get your content
on other platforms that will be able to expand the reach to help
(16:36):
your digital sponsorships. But also will be willing to
maybe do Rev share on some advertising they're selling on
their own platforms with their established clients or allowing
you to increase exposure of youradvertisers on their platforms.
Or even who knows, maybe pay a little bit of a media rights fee
along the way. But if you try and monetize
through 1 medium, like if you just go down advertising, you're
(16:59):
leaving money on the table for those tier ones.
And if you go just on a subscription, you're leaving
everything under the Tier 1 fan off the table as a potential
customer, which in this day and age is is pretty mad.
And flipping things over to the technology side and this is one
of the things that Dan Costello mentioned.
And like I said, Dan is the Executive Vice President, Chief
Revenue Officer of the Phoenix Suns.
(17:20):
And I would say the Phoenix Sunsare really interesting because
their new owner is very much forward thinking and innovative
and pushing them out there. But he spoke with Wim Sullivans,
who's the, you know, founder andCEO at Kisway, about the fact
that they needed help. You know, this is something that
historically they did not have the internal expertise.
They did not have the internal infrastructure.
(17:42):
So to what degree, you know, I think we take for granted some
of the the tech side of things. And you know, maybe someone like
the NFL, the NBA, it's so established, it's so mature that
like it's just taken for granted.
But for organizations, particularly at the team level
and the Phoenix Suns aren't exactly a a, A and I know the
terms poverty franchise. That's how they refer to the
Cincinnati Bengals. They, you know, they're not a
(18:03):
they're not a small club. They're not in a Tier 2 sports
league. They're one of the, you know,
second, third biggest league in the world.
It's not that they don't have access to certain things, but
this will also be a challenge. Smaller, you know, Tier 2, Tier
3 football clubs in Europe may have what role do those
technology players play for those businesses that simply
just don't have the the expertise, the infrastructure to
(18:24):
do it themselves? There has been so many examples
of where sports teams and lower tier leagues and competitions
have tried to do it themselves and that people typically have
not had the experience any, nearly any experience in the
broadcast or OTT or DTC space and have been tasked to work it
out. And they're really smart people.
(18:45):
But you just can't, you just can't pull that off.
It's way too complex a situationwhen you've got to add both that
complexity around the monetization approach, the
marketing approach. And then there's technical side,
which as we see, even for peoplethat have been established in
the market for years and years, is something you have to be
constantly focused on, on getting the technology right,
evolving it, improving it, making and, and making sure you
(19:07):
pick the right tech. Tech partners is so, so
critical. If you pick the one they, they
can just let everything else down in the mix.
And sometimes you can partner with certain organisations who
can do it all for you and then they just, there's a different
commercial approach. I don't think there's one right
way to do it, but there's one wrong, one wrong way and that's
(19:28):
to try and do it all yourself. That is just going to be long
winded, create lots of pain points and will leave you
really, you'll get caught out somewhere along the way.
So you have to start trusting. You have to find the right
partner to trust, the right partners to trust, I should say.
And there's loads of people who are both independent or tech
providers and solution providersand platform providers, let's
(19:50):
say like your endeavor streamings or your kids ways or
your view lifts or delta trays and so on and so forth, or see
those etcetera. That's their baggage to help do
this. And they all have different
levels and ways of approaching it.
And some things they do and somethings they don't do.
But you can't deal without talking to someone like like a
kids way who we're going to hearfrom, who's been able to help
someone like the Phoenix Suns successfully launch the right
(20:13):
approach. So yeah, it's super important
that you you bring the right person on board, the right
company on board to help you. And that'll lead us nicely into
that interview. Like I said, Dan from the
Phoenix Suns is going to take you a little bit through their
their story in terms of, you know, kind of how that all
played out as the RSN market started to collapse.
Because I think that is, you know, you got to understand why
(20:33):
these companies are making thesedecisions and they have a unique
story as to why they were sort of put in that position.
Because I what people may not know from a local team
perspective, they do rely on those Rs and broadcast deals.
Those are a major part of their revenue play.
So and that gets pulled away that that does create a bit of a
vacuum. So there is a, a strong
necessity to try to to do that. So for them, like similar
(20:57):
stories we've heard over the years, like this was something
they had to do to to, you know, stay competitive.
So he breaks down a little bit what's happened in the regional
Sports Network that that drove them to get to this point.
And then he also talks about what you just mentioned there,
Nick, like we simply did not have the expertise to do with
that. And when from, you know, kiss
way who I misspoke earlier, he'sthe Co founder and the CMO, not
the CEO, but CMO and on the leftand Co founder talking about how
(21:19):
they came in to provide that security to help them be able to
get that off the ground on a relatively short notice.
So it's a really interesting case study example of going D to
C in the manner in which they had to go about doing it.
Yeah, a super interesting story.I think it's one of the most
interesting ones actually to follow in the entire industry
because of the predicament you talked about, about their
transition from this RSN poweredand funded world that they lived
(21:43):
in to now having to find a way to shift as quickly as possible
customers, consumers and the whole internal approach around
it. So I think this, it is really,
really an interesting conversation discussing and, and
they go into it in quite, quite a lot of detail.
I do I would say for sometimes it's a good reminder for context
for those that are outside the US on how significant this
regional Sports Network is. You know, in some states, like I
(22:06):
don't know what it is in California, but it's like 50
million people live in the state, right?
That's as big as England in terms of size and scale.
So think about the importance ofthat giving that regional bit,
right, if you're trying to superserve a super fan base because
that's your local market and they're willing to and they've
been consuming this stuff for a long time.
They have high expectations and it's been highly lucrative for
(22:28):
them. But they're going, they have to
go through and stomach a very big transition with some cost
limitations to it. And I think the MLB examples are
really interesting, one when some of those clubs have been
through a similar journey and the actual league had to help
fund them through that, sort of bridge them through some of that
transition. So this whole space is super
interesting and I'm still alwaystrying to get to grips with it
(22:49):
because it's there's so many different examples of moving
parts in the space. So we'll go ahead and hand
things over to Steve McCaskill, our technology editor, who
handles that interview with Dan and Win.
But we appreciate you for joining us.
And by the time you hear this, you'll just come off your Easter
holidays. I hope you all had lots of
chocolate, lots of fun with the kids, Easter egg hunts and all
that fun stuff. We hope you're enjoying this
episode of Stream Time Sports. But we at Sportsburg excited to
(23:11):
announce at the end of this month, we'll be welcoming over
1000 top executives from across the industry to our flagship
event, Sports Pro Live, held here in London at the Kia Oval.
Join us on the 29th and 30th of April as we export the future of
the sports industry across vitaltopics including sponsorship,
media, tech, and women's sports.Head to our website
live.sportspro.com to check out the agendas, speakers, ticket
(23:34):
options, and more. As a podcast listener, you can
also enjoy 15% off your conference pass with the code
POD 15. That is POD 1/5 at checkout.
We'll see you there. Hello, I'm Steve McCaskill.
I'm Technology Editor at Sports Pro, and I'm here at Sports Pro
New York to talk about direct consumer streaming.
I'm joined by Dan Costello from the Phoenix Suns and BIM from
(23:57):
Kizway. Please, gentlemen, can you
introduce yourself? Sure.
I'm Dan Costello. I'm Executive Vice President and
Chief Revenue Officer for the Phoenix Suns and Phoenix
Mercury. Yes.
And my name is Wim Sveldens. I am the Co founder and today
Chief Marketing Officer for Kizby.
So you 2 entered into a partnership, you know, a year or
(24:18):
two in into it now and it was quite, you know, it was quite
ground breaking in terms of the structure that you you, you
know, decided upon in terms of taking, you know, Suns games
have been on cable since 1981. Move, you know, adapting to the
times by taking both the Suns and Mercury from the Women's
National Basketball Association,taking a combination of D to C
(24:40):
and free to air. Can you explain why you chose to
go down this path and how this partnership came about?
What were you looking for in a partner?
Yeah. So, so we, we spent a lot of
time probably 15 months, 18 months, you know, before our
Ascend deal was, was scheduled to complete kind of looking at
the landscape. And obviously if I go back to
(25:02):
those moments, you know, there was a lot of challenges in the
financial markets, in the RSN environment.
And so knowing our deal was up, we had to go through a specific
process and we were the first team to really breakthrough,
break free from the RSN environment, you know, which was
a great partnership for a numberof years.
(25:22):
But when you go on your sales floor and you go talk to fans
and you realize, like even your own team members at times aren't
figuring out how they can't figure out how to watch our
games. You know, they're not paying for
bundles or not, you know, integrated and traditional cable
programming. And so for us, we, we kind of
became focused on this idea of, you know, can we be all things
(25:43):
to everyone with an offering that we thought was really
unique, focused on over the air and a really dedicated
futuristic DTC platform with ourfriends at Kisley.
Yeah, and it goes back a little bit to the defining days of the
company. When we founded the company, we
always felt that something was about to change in in how sports
fans watched their favorite teams and that the traditional
(26:07):
cable model wouldn't continue asit was.
I saw at the time my kids were teenagers and they didn't really
watch TV anymore. So we we felt that there would
be an opportunity. And then it came two years ago
when we first partnered with with the Sun and the sort of the
cable, the RSN model started to break down and people no longer
watch on cable. And so we then came up with
(26:28):
opinion of innovative partnership between US and the
NBA and Grey to sort of make sure we reach all the fans.
And it's something that we always wanted to do when we
started the company. Yeah, we'll talk a bit more
about streaming in a second, butI'd like to hear a bit more
about the free to air component on on Grey and why you decided
that making your game, you know,some of the games available and
(26:50):
to the wise to available audience was was the best move.
And I know, you know, we talked about the decline of pay TV
households and the impact on thecable model to go over over the
air again, that was that was quite, quite something.
As a Brit, the the concept of teams giving away aerials to to
receive matches was a bit of a throwback for us because we all
have aerials. Obviously not the case in in the
(27:11):
US. So tell me about the free to
air, why you felt that was that was so important to this overall
strategy? Yeah.
Listen, I exposing as many people possible to your product
we view as a really great thing.You know, and I think for us it
was also a moment of time. You know, Matt HP had just
bought the franchise. You know, I think Matt as a
(27:32):
youngest owner in sports is really focused on if you do
right by the fan base, you know,the financial aspects, aspects
of a partnership can come. And I think for us, we've also
been a team that's always sold the inventory inside of our
games. So we've had this this team on
my revenue side that's really good at selling, you know,
(27:52):
television advertising and entitlements.
And you know, when you look at going over the air, you're also
looking at creating a much larger audience.
And so that first year we grew over 100% in terms of our
ratings. And, you know, that's math and
we can sell the advertising revenue for more.
Our partners also, you know, ourbrand partners, you know, have
(28:13):
this incredible thirst to get infront of our fan base also.
And so, you know, the combination of, you know, our
partners who want to reach a larger audience and a
marketplace is growing quickly. Phoenix is the 5th largest city
in the country. You know, having access to these
games becomes a really interesting opportunity for us.
It's on us to figure out the monetization strategy, but
(28:36):
again, that's why it's such a luxury to be able to just think
about audience growth. And I think between the over the
air strategy, you know, combinedwith a really unique DTC
platform, you know, we do have an offering for everyone in our
marketplace, But that over the air strategy has been really
unique in a great way for us to talk to the fans all day.
(28:57):
You know, if you're in Phoenix watching the early Morning News
on great television, our partner, you know, the the
broadcast starts off with a countdown clock to our games and
the news. And all day long they're talking
about our game. You know, that type of
partnership is, is valuable. You know when you're trying to
promote your products, you're trying to get people to know the
spirit of your teams. It's been a great partnership.
(29:19):
Yeah. And we're obviously are the the
streaming component in this thing, but we're very
comfortable with this sort of beam and stream a model it it
feels a little bit like you saidto like Back to the Future.
But it's all about what Dan saidis to make sure that you reach
all the fans. There's different viewing
patterns, there's different demographics that people who are
more comfortable with an over the air type viewing over more
(29:40):
traditional viewing. But clearly a younger generation
is more digitally savvy, is moremobile savvy.
And then we always feel as a streaming company, our job is to
not sort of replicate an over the air experiences, but to
really create a new experience. A new experience that is more
interactive, where people can participate, where they can
chat, where there's additional behind the scenes content that
(30:02):
is completely branded by the team, that gives the team a lot
of insights and data on on the users so we can serve them
better. So it's a comfortable model as
part of the transition that the industry is going through.
Obviously we discussed the cablemodel and that was a very
successful model for for many years.
It was also, you know, a very, very different model to what you
do now. And so be honest.
(30:22):
Before you went down this route,how much did you know about the
insurance and outs of the streaming market?
What obviously, you know, there's, there's just the, the,
I think we all understand the distribution elements of it, but
it's about, it's more than that.It can't just be taking linear
distribution and digitally, you know, taking it to digital
environment. So what were your priorities?
What did you want to make sure that you were doing?
(30:43):
And then what? How important was it to make
sure you had the right support? Listen, I think anybody who says
that they had it figured out before you, you start.
These are the early days and I Ithink, you know, we've, we're
really grateful that we have great resources at the NBA.
Who's been in this business. You know, I think league pass in
the way that they've partnered in the national side of, of the
(31:06):
game has been, you know, a greatpartnership.
So I, I think so highly of Bill Koenig and David Dennenberg,
they were by our side the entiretime.
You know, we also had support from endeavour, Karen Brock and
Hilary Mandel. You know, we wanted to surround
ourselves with a great group of people to help us evaluate and
make make the right decision. You know, at the end of the day,
(31:26):
we felt like the combination of Gray and Kisly was the perfect
combination for us. And a lot of that spirits built
on the willingness to to try newthings, the willingness to think
bigger, think long term, you know, finding the right partners
that have the fortitude to thinkreally long term and not be so
(31:47):
consumed with next month or nextquarter.
These are really long term strategies that, you know, if
you're just focused on just the pure revenue aspects of it every
day, every month, you know, I think it's way too early to be
focused on that. So I think our wins, you know,
maybe happen in 24 months, 36 months.
(32:08):
But honestly, if we can get insights and data every day that
help make better decisions for the next day, we feel great.
And that one-on-one relationshipwith the fan, you just can't
replace it. And so, you know, I think for
us, surrounding yourself to the right people, but also finding
the right like minded partners with Paramount.
Yeah. And maybe one thing to add to
that. So we're, we're always have a
(32:29):
fair amount of streaming experience.
We, we launched this company with a goal to sort of really be
the DTC partner for sports teamsand leaks.
That market took a little bit longer to develop than we
thought it would. But then one thing that we were
able to do also during COVID is to really go into other
verticals. I mean, we did a lot of things
with, with music streaming during COVID.
(32:50):
We did a lot of K pop. We still do a lot of K pop.
We do a lot of sort of creators and influences and it allows us
to learn a lot about the youngerdemographic.
How do they want to engage? How do you reach them?
How do you market them? How do you make them part of the
stream? And it's all about, like Dan
said, that one to one connection, because ultimately
streaming is a 1 to 1 medium. It's an interactive medium.
(33:11):
It's a bi directional thing. It's not just about bringing the
game to the remote fans. How do you make the fans in a
way feel that they are part of the game?
Just like the people who are in the arena, they feel they're
part of the game. How do you bring that same
feeling to to to fans at home? And because we are sort of in
different verticals, music and creators and influencers, it
(33:32):
allows us to sort of explore different technologies and then
make sure we take the best ones and we'll bring them to the
partnership with the Suns. Yeah, Dan, I think that the, the
data point is actually somethingthat gets lost for, you know, a
lot of casual observers how important it is to, you know,
there's that level of insight you can get on the fan, which
you know, can, can benefit on the organization in, in, in
(33:52):
different ways. And it's something you just
can't get on the on the on the layer front.
When you mentioned that, you know, you perhaps you thought
this market wouldn't develop as as quickly as you thought as you
thought it might. And again, you were, you were
both one of the first to do thisand you know, doing it from a
position of strength as well as relative first movers in this,
in this market or, you know, oneof the first movers in this
(34:12):
market. What learnings have you have you
taken from, from this? Is there anything that you, you
wish you did differently or anything that you can, you can
take to other, other, other clients in, in the future?
And, and, and then similarly, isthere anything that you, you've
learned that that you would, youknow, you now know better or you
were happy that you did? Yeah.
So a couple of things that that we learned and sometimes, you
(34:34):
know, as a entrepreneurial company, you don't know what the
future is going to be. We had no idea obviously that
the lockdown was coming. And, and, and at first there was
an enormous challenge for us. But then we realized, for
example, that some of the interactive features, like we
build an interactive feature where fans could pick their own
camera. And it turns out that became
overnight super popular in the KPop shower.
(34:57):
Now, I'd be the first to admit we didn't really know much about
K Pop. We worked with a bunch of the
Korean bands. We got to work with BTS and we
realized that the fans really wanted that one-on-one
customization. And so there was the ability to
learn and quickly react to the opportunities that we had.
And the other thing we realized,like you were just talking to
that that insight in terms of the fan, the fan demographic,
(35:20):
the fan usage, the fan interactivity and making the
fans feel part of the game. So we built fan walls and cheer
maps and there's sort of a lot of innovation that happened.
And as sort of as we are sort ofin this entrepreneurial mode
together, we are constantly likedance at learning, getting the
data, see how we can engage the fans and see how we can grow the
(35:40):
opportunity. I don't know if I do anything
differently to be candid. I mean, I, I think we went into
this with a feeling of, you know, we're not certain where
this goes, but we know it's correct.
And I think for us, the intention, if anything, would be
how do I plan for more experimentation?
How do I plan for more, you know, AB testing?
(36:02):
How do I plan for crazy ideas? I mean, I, I am also really
focused and our teams really focused on this idea of how
powerful creators can be and, you know, utilizing this DTC
environment to maybe introduce different demographics that
aren't sports fans. Like I'm really interested in in
(36:24):
K pop and the cross cultural opportunities and pop culture
that can happen when you introduce maybe a WNBA broadcast
to that audience. I'm interested in, you know,
ADTC environment maybe that's focused on food and cooking.
You know, obviously, if you lookat behind the scenes during our
games, there's a lot of food, there's a lot of cooking,
(36:46):
there's a lot of cross collaborative things that happen
when you go to a game that maybean audience that's not thinking
about basketball might be interested in.
And so, you know, I want to constantly and our team is
always thinking about how do we introduce new demographics,
completely new audiences into our our game.
And I think, you know, we have to continue to think about
(37:08):
stunning and talking about our games from a different
perspective, not just a super basketball fan.
And, you know, there's a lot of ways to capture our content, you
know, and, and, and acts on Snapchat, on Instagram, Meta has
A, and over different products. You know, I think we're going to
constantly focus our efforts on trying to differentiate what
(37:30):
we're doing D to C wise versus everything else that's out
there. And so, you know, if anything,
I'd probably over commit to experimenting and, and making
sure that I'm screwing up as much as possible because if I'm,
if I'm, if I'm making mistakes, it means that I'm trying, if
it's perfect every time. I don't think this is the right
product for the right for that type of team.
(37:50):
Fail fast, right yeah and when don't put yourself down.
I can guarantee you you know themost about K pop anyone who's
appeared on streams. So you can you can you can take
take that away. But further, you know on a more
serious note, that's absolutely the way we're seeing content
going. It's it's not just about the
game, it's about lifestyle. It's about building on those
stories that that, you know younger fans especially
(38:10):
especially want. So you've touched upon a couple
of the the the content and technological features that
you've you've integrated into the the D2C platform, but what
did you absolutely want to have in there to maximize the
engagement and and the monetization opportunities?
What was it that you felt would really appeal to fans and offer
something completely new? Yeah, What what did you think?
(38:32):
That absolutely had to be in there.
Yeah, I'll, I'll talk a little bit about the technology behind
it and I'll let man fill in withwith the content.
Like one thing that you see if you go to Sun's live, you could
obviously see the games and they're obviously behind the
paywall, but you can also see the the archive games.
You could also see extra behind the scenes content.
And what we find if we look at the analytics behind is that
(38:54):
fans come back much more regularly than there are games
because they are hungry for thatbehind the scenes capability.
So the ability to do live and live engagement, but then also
having archive games and then snippets from players or coaches
or behind the scenes. That thing is definitely
something that the platform does.
The other thing we really enjoy is the fact that people can
(39:14):
actually chat. There's actually ability to chat
and share and interact with eachother and there's always people
chatting and there's always quite a few people who should
like watch the chat. I mean, they don't necessarily
chat themselves, but they like to see some of the commentary
behind it. We always should do some
moderation behind it to make sure it's all, it's all safe.
But what we also notice from theanalytics is that, and we see
(39:35):
this with the Suns and with lotsof other content partners that
people who engage, they actuallytend to stay longer.
We're very happy with the viewing times that we're
getting. They tend to come back.
They tend to bring their friends, they tell, they tend to
tell their friends about it. So it's sort of a, a, a virtual
cycle that happens with technology that is very
different from what a traditional, let's say TV
(39:57):
experience would be. I don't have much more to add,
but I do think. You know, the only thing I'll
add is is probably just a a different word to describe, but
we really love to see from a product perspective.
It's just it builds community. You know, when you have a a like
minded group of people that are watching the game, you know, the
excitement that happens when yougo on a big run or there's a
(40:17):
great play is equal to when the team's having a hard time.
You know, the passion that fandom brings is kind of the,
the point that brings us all together.
And, you know, I think it's funny.
It is, is this one-on-one relationship in D2C.
You know, this product brings people together.
You know, you can watch it with people that are, you know,
(40:39):
sharing and experience at the same time and they enjoy
sharing. And so I, I really love the
community aspect of chats and, you know, bringing people
together. I think it's, it's a game
changer in terms of creating, you know, a really unique
community amongst your fan base.Thank you, Dan.
Thank you Ben for your insights.Thank you, I really appreciate
(40:59):
it. Now before you go, if you liked
what you heard today, be sure torate and review and just let me
know what you think on social. You can find me on most social
platforms at Sports Pro Nick. And please do spread the word of
the podcast. There's no better way of
marketing than word of mouth, whether that be in person or on
social media. And if you don't like what
you've heard, what you think we should be doing more or less of
something, then reach out and let me know as I'd love to hear
(41:22):
from you. Thanks.
Stream timers until next time.
Hello everyone. Welcome back to the Stream Time
Sports podcast. My name is Chris Stone, the
community lead, joined as alwaysby our CEO, Nick Beacham.
Now Nick, this this past weekendwas a big weekend individually
for Rory McIlroy and was also apparently a big weekend for Sky
Sports. If I, if I saw correctly, it's a
single largest day in Sky Sportshistory in terms of viewership.
And I'm going to go out there and say, Nick, I was not one of
(00:30):
those people. I didn't watch a single second
of the Masters. I know I'm putting myself out
there. There's people to PGA Tour like
Scott Gutterman that I really like and I, you know, appreciate
some of the work they're doing. I always find it really
interesting what they're doing. But Nick mentioned it before the
podcast. I don't really watch any
individual sports. So did you watch Roy's historic
day? Am I the?
(00:51):
Am I the only one? I don't know if you're the only
one, I mean, and this comes backto a bigger conversation about
what do you define as someone following it and watching it,
right? Because people could follow a
lot of the action through the app and through the social media
with the near live highlights. And that might be enough for
some to quote UN quote follow itversus tuning in for the live
(01:14):
experience, which is what Sky was promoting.
I actually have to say my experience was pretty disastrous
because I was, I haven't really signed up to any of the, the
local subscription platforms where not bore people with
details, but we're renting, we've got ATV that's on ours and
they haven't got a lot of apps that aren't available on it.
So we've kind of just doing a minimal standard of just one or
(01:36):
two based layer based platforms like Netflix.
And I think, I think that's it. And SVT, which is the, the local
public air BBC equivalent, let'ssay, and that's about it.
And the masters weren't available on those channels.
And I can't even, we don't even have antenna access to watch
the, the other broadcast channels in general terms
(01:57):
anyway. So I couldn't watch it.
Then I was like trying to find how to get access.
And then I look, I think that my, the, the conclusion I came
to was I have to sign up to Viaplay, who has the right here?
I believe I've not done any research on this because I
didn't know you asked me this, but I would, I believe they have
the rights to it. And when I went on there, I, I
(02:17):
couldn't do it on my TV. So I went to on I was on my
phone and that was going to costme the equivalent of about it
only gave me a monthly subscription option.
I think on on my phone. Now someone might tell me
there's another way, but I didn't find that.
And this is thinking about the user experience thing, which I
was living a living and breathing first hand at the
moment. And I remember last year, I
really wanted to watch it. So I, and actually the year
(02:39):
before that, sorry. And I watched it via the now TV
option, which is in in on sky, which is you just get like a 24
hour access or a week long access and pay a premium.
It's it's stupidly expensive forwhat I wanted.
It was like, I don't know, 20 something pounds I think for,
for a day to watch or, or something like that.
I'm like, I'm going to do it because I really, really want to
(03:00):
have the evening cleared. Nothing to annoy me.
But this summer out I couldn't, I wanted to.
I would have been up for that sort of microtransaction.
I just pay a little fee for now.I still don't know if I want to
sign up to via play or the otherbig telcos in the market here.
So so the the cable providers inthe market here or the pay TV
solutions. So that left me in between a
(03:20):
rock and a hard place and then Icouldn't really find a way to
get access to it there. So I was left left a bit
disappointed how all my friends who were, you know, GG fanatics
texting me. Oh, look at that.
Well, this is great and I'm liketrying to find highlights and
there was a really negative experience I have to say.
So I was quite disappointed though I wasn't able to get on
onto the platform and to watch it.
(03:42):
So I'll hopefully be more prepared next time around.
You should have messaged our friend Magnus Fenson.
You know, he, he should know everything about that region.
He could have helped you out, I'm sure.
I should have, you know, but it was about 6-7 in the in the
evening and I was like, at what point do you just give up?
And I think this has come, this comes back to some of the stuff
we're even going to touch upon alittle bit today.
Is this this whole challenge of getting people onto platforms
(04:04):
and and not making it easy enough?
Like I'm a pretty ever fan. I kind of would have been
willing to pay for it, but I haven't made it easy enough and
I'll have to commit to a long term subscription.
It's just that's just not their ideal scenario for someone who
wants to just have an events based experience.
And I would have been happily topay a premium for it if it was
offered to me. So I was a bit let down, happy
for Rory. I would not have watched it to
(04:25):
the end because I think the finishing time was the
equivalent of 1:30 in the morning here because I went to
playoffs. So I wouldn't have been able to
watch it all through and I wouldhave been a bit disappointed
with that. So I I will, I will live to
fight another day. But the different this
definitely I think the you know,the masters, I think if you ask
anyone has a very unique place in the sporting calendar for
(04:46):
those that do follow it. So quite I know people that
aren't golfers that will lock itin their Diaries.
It's something they'll watch hour or shot by shot for the
last few hours of pretty much. Well, definitely the Sunday, if
not the days beforehand. So it's a very uniquely
positioned event that is for sure.
Well, not to get into the political drama between PGA Tour
(05:07):
and live golf, but I saw an interesting photo.
I was comparing side by side where Rory, I forget which
tournament he won, but the the purse was 18,000,000.
I believe the purse, the mastersis only 4 million.
So you're talking 25 less than 25% of the and it's just the
degree of emotion. And like the point of the post
was like, you know, it's not about the paychecks, it's about
the prestige of it all. And it was interesting.
(05:29):
And like I said, I'm, you know, to your point, like Augusta is
different than the other ones, but it was interesting seeing
those photos side by side. You know, maybe Roy had a bigger
celebration and like, the camerajust didn't capture that
particular $18 million paycheck moment.
But it was interesting to your point, sort of, it's not always
about the money, although we spend a lot of time talking
about the money in sports. Well, I don't believe, I think
(05:50):
this is a bit that catches some people out about the majors is I
don't believe that the Masters is officially like owned by the
PGA Tour. It's it's owned stand alone, the
majors and similar to to tennis.So PGA Tour has a huge
influence. I believe that I don't know,
there must be some ranking points are attached to it, but I
do believe there's some, what doyou call it, autonomy there in
(06:11):
how they're operated. I'm in a pretty good position
for the Masters if they can justpay what they like.
And it's got so much privilege behind it that you know, they,
they, they can charge what they like or they can give whatever
they, they like out. And they're obviously very well
known and well regarded for their, I think talked about
probably a little bit too much about the low price food and
drinks and beverage and everything on site.
(06:32):
I think they get a little bit too much coverage on that,
primarily because it's still, it's impossible to get into that
event. You, you need to know someone,
you need to all pay an absolute huge garage to an amount of
money. So whilst it feels noble that
you, the prices are lower, you try and get a ticket in there.
It's one of the most priced tickets in in sports.
So there's a reason for that as well.
(06:52):
Well, the last sort of Side Story I'll talk about with the
PGA Tour, I don't know if you'rea baseball fan at all, Nick
Meacham, but he was one of my idols growing up, despite his
photo not being behind me on my wall of fame here.
But did you see who took the photo that was going around on
social media of Rory on the ground celebrating?
Yeah, I did. That was quite surreal enough.
Did you see the the final shot? Kenny King, Griffey Junior,
(07:14):
obviously the one you're talkingabout.
Did you see the photo that he took at the end?
That got a lot of coverage on social media?
It's with Rory basically celebrating the end.
Yeah, that's, that's the photo I'm talking about.
When I saw it, I was like, what are the odds?
Is there's another man named Kane Griffey Junior then like,
no shit. Like it is actually the Kane
Griffey Junior that took that photo.
I'm glad retirement's going wellfor him, but I I just thought
that was an incredible little Side Story.
(07:36):
What an epic pastime. He's probably got so much money
in the banking industry, what hewants to do and like, you know
what, I'm just going to be really good at photography and
get to travel the world and get,he got basically a full of full
blown media accreditation to, todo because I actually sort of
talked about prior to the event.But this is, you know, for those
that don't know baseball, he's one of the most famous baseball
names. I think that I, I, I remember
(07:57):
hearing of him decades ago or, and his dad, I don't know what,
what the timelines were, but also all I know is that name is
very, very famous in, in baseball.
And so for him to just pop up randomly in the crowd taking
photos, ironically, no one else can take photos.
Remember as well, because of thethe rules there that you have to
put your phones away for the thetournament.
(08:17):
It's a quite a quite a cool vibe, a quite a cool opportunity
for him and he clearly, it clearly paid off.
Yeah, well, he, he's like Tiger Woods in the sense of he used to
have his own video game. It was Ken Griffey Junior on
N64. So he was he was Tiger Woods
status with his own game. And I you mentioned his father.
One of the fun facts is him and his father actually homered.
I believe it was back-to-back inthe same game.
(08:38):
It's like the only time like father and son have ever done
that in baseball history. His father is part of the Big
Red Machine since that. Reds fan here.
So Ken Griffey grew up in Cincinnati, so when he got
traded to the Reds, that was oneof the happiest days of my
childhood. So yeah.
That's quite cool, but. Your point should have been a
unanimous Hall of Famer. One person did not vote for him,
which would have made him the first unanimous.
But we won't get into that. But yeah, it just it was a cool
(09:00):
little Side Story that, you know, the kind of thing sports
makes happen sometimes. You know what, I think sometimes
there's always seems to be a fewside stories that happen around
the masters. And I do think it's probably
because there's not just a million people walking around
the place with cameras out and there's they, they look for
those more unique stories than, I don't know, just the
sensational viral moments that probably are happening
(09:22):
throughout the event. You could only imagine, right?
But they're probably going to get they'll get caught by
anyone. So they have to find something
else to talk about. Well, we'll transition Nick into
to what we're going to talk about today.
And you sort of kind of talked alittle bit about their kind of
your struggles being able to actually tune into the Masters.
And one of the things we're going to be able to do later on
(09:42):
is we've got an interview with the CRO at the Phoenix Suns.
And one of the stories we're going to talk about there is
they are one of the first teams within the NBA to set up their
own D to C streaming platform. Now, this is obviously been off
the back of anyone that's been following the US broadcast news.
There's been a lot going on withthe regional sports networks.
It's impacted the way teams go about doing their broadcast
(10:04):
deals, particularly in the NBA, Major League Baseball, where
unlike the NFL, there's quite a lengthy season that is not going
to get picked up just by your, you know, typical linear
broadcast deals. And it's forced them to have to
figure out what they need to do.And it's an interesting story,
but it's also an interesting wayfor us to kind of go in and talk
more about direct to consumer. And I suppose the thing with
(10:25):
this thing is like it's not the direct consumers knew, but what
would you say are some of the unique challenges for launching
AD to C when you are someone like the Phoenix Suns, someone
you know historically probably relied largely on distribution
of the league deal or you know, just having AB to B deal with
(10:46):
your regional sports networks and now having to do that D to
C? There's so many challenges,
Chris, there's so many challenges.
I think we've learnt a lot over the last few years looking and
following a lot of the the journeys of people who are
launching these types of platforms.
And I mean, I could rattle off aquick, a quick few of them off
the top of my head. But the first thing is, is the
limited and audience scale, right?
You've got these teams that theymay have passionate fan bases,
(11:09):
but part of the uniqueness and growth of basic and professional
sports in the US was built on that scale that basically that
reads through cable and other other channels.
They will have such unlimited audience to play with.
They would have to be really hyper focused on reaching their
localised audiences and trying to and spending so much time and
effort in marketing that platform to fans who can't just
(11:31):
stumble across and have access to it immediately through the
traditional mediums. The other one is obviously
content volume. So if you want to get people to
start subscribing to these services, well, actually
depending on the rights, if it'sonly home games, I'm not sure
the specifics on their situation, but if it's only home
games, you don't make the play offs.
You're talking 40 odd games a year at best.
Now that's only for a portion ofthe year.
(11:53):
So are you going to create a bespoke subscription solution or
can you monetise other ways? Because that means between games
and between the season, there's nothing basically going on on
your platform and how much more extra content you need to create
to basically make that platform viable and worth continue to to
be subscribed to. The other things are like rights
(12:14):
limitations. Obviously if you there's a
league wide rights deal in place, you only have certain
limitations of what you can and can't do with that.
And probably the different ways you can approach striking
distribution deals to get more visibility.
I think one of the things that lost is lost a lot in this
industry is all about the marketing side and how tough it
is to market these products and propositions.
(12:35):
And that's why the broadcasters who've been doing it for a long
time have a much more bandwidth and financial budgets basically
committed to these type of things can basically get these
products out to market much, much quicker and easier than
someone who's doing it from scratch.
And also there's the the expertise of marketing these
products more effectively. And then there's other things
that really stand out to me are things like the technical side.
(12:57):
You have technical infrastructure, you need to have
a whole new host of basically building a tech stack largely
from scratch to do these things.There's the right monetization
approach and then there's inevitably what fans are
expecting from you from terms ofthe delivery and just what
they're expecting in terms of cost wise as well.
So there's so many factors that exist that as someone going into
(13:19):
the space has to be considerate of it's, it's very difficult to
get the right balance from from day one.
Now, speaking specifically from a monetization perspective, it
used to be, and we've talked about this before, like everyone
always thought subscriptions were the the golden ticket.
That was the thing you wanted. And there are still services out
there that do on a subscription basis.
You know, you got MLBTV, the NBA, what they're doing with
their app. You know, there are subscription
(13:41):
services out there. You've also got ad models like
we're seeing introduced with FIFA Plus.
You're seeing kind of mobile outonly deals.
I'm thinking of what is that NFLPlus where it's a it is a
subscription deal, but it's onlyfor streaming on mobile devices
when it comes at a much lower price point because of the
restriction on where it's at. And then, you know, one of our,
you know, businesses that we've,you know, worked with in the
(14:01):
past, and I've highlighted before you look at someone like
a recast, they've recently just signed a deal with NASCAR, which
is around the microtransactions buying, you know, content in
smaller, biteable sizes at key moments, things like that.
You know, when you're talking about bouncing this up and you
know, we, we've used the PhoenixSuns as an argument, but you
could use it for anyone else. If you're trying to figure out
(14:22):
when you have such limitations around what you can and you
can't do, how you choose, which one of those monetization models
is right for you? I just think this the standard
answer is there is no one monetization model and anyone
trying to do it through one single model is almost doomed
for failure, or at least doomed to leave a lot of money on the
table in some way shape or form and to potentially let down
(14:45):
different sets of fans. My view is in in simple, I would
say you need to have a supplementary product that is
for tier one fans. And actually I'll take a step
back here. You would say there's probably
two types of subscription products that exist. 1 is that
it's targeted toward that tier one set of fans.
So it's extra different tools, whether it be multi screen,
whether it's extra data access and insights and extra bespoke
(15:08):
exclusive content, something that super serves A Tier 1 fan
that you can't and wouldn't expect from a traditional
broadcaster. And there's another sort of
subscription, which is where it's the, it's the kitchen sync
subscription, let's call it. That's, that's basically what a
Netflix does. And also all the major streaming
platforms. It's there's just so much
critical mass on the platform at, at a low price.
(15:30):
You just sort of almost can't say no to it.
You just kind of have to subscribe to it.
So I think you've got to look atthings from, from, from that
lane. So if you're launching it
yourself, you can't do the kitchen sink.
The kitchen sink is not viable to you.
So I said, I think you have to have a subscription product that
is that is premium with lots of cool tools and really a value to
AT1 fan. So they go, yeah, that's really
(15:50):
what I want. Then underneath that you've got
to get the right approach on looking at bringing advertising
into the four and digital sponsorships.
Now we're seeing huge growth in digital sponsorships in the in
the sponsorship industry right across the board.
I think it's something like 16% growth year on year across the
US sports marketplace. That's an area that has to be
continual focus point and we talked about it before New York.
(16:12):
That was a huge topic both in advertising and sponsorship.
So premium top level, reduce thefriction of getting onto the
platform, getting access, make sure you have advertising
sponsorship charged up in terms of your approach and don't treat
it as a secondary thing. And then finally, strike some
distribution deals. See how you can get your content
on other platforms that will be able to expand the reach to help
(16:36):
your digital sponsorships. But also will be willing to
maybe do Rev share on some advertising they're selling on
their own platforms with their established clients or allowing
you to increase exposure of youradvertisers on their platforms.
Or even who knows, maybe pay a little bit of a media rights fee
along the way. But if you try and monetize
through 1 medium, like if you just go down advertising, you're
(16:59):
leaving money on the table for those tier ones.
And if you go just on a subscription, you're leaving
everything under the Tier 1 fan off the table as a potential
customer, which in this day and age is is pretty mad.
And flipping things over to the technology side and this is one
of the things that Dan Costello mentioned.
And like I said, Dan is the Executive Vice President, Chief
Revenue Officer of the Phoenix Suns.
(17:20):
And I would say the Phoenix Sunsare really interesting because
their new owner is very much forward thinking and innovative
and pushing them out there. But he spoke with Wim Sullivans,
who's the, you know, founder andCEO at Kisway, about the fact
that they needed help. You know, this is something that
historically they did not have the internal expertise.
They did not have the internal infrastructure.
(17:42):
So to what degree, you know, I think we take for granted some
of the the tech side of things. And you know, maybe someone like
the NFL, the NBA, it's so established, it's so mature that
like it's just taken for granted.
But for organizations, particularly at the team level
and the Phoenix Suns aren't exactly a a, A and I know the
terms poverty franchise. That's how they refer to the
Cincinnati Bengals. They, you know, they're not a
(18:03):
they're not a small club. They're not in a Tier 2 sports
league. They're one of the, you know,
second, third biggest league in the world.
It's not that they don't have access to certain things, but
this will also be a challenge. Smaller, you know, Tier 2, Tier
3 football clubs in Europe may have what role do those
technology players play for those businesses that simply
just don't have the the expertise, the infrastructure to
(18:24):
do it themselves? There has been so many examples
of where sports teams and lower tier leagues and competitions
have tried to do it themselves and that people typically have
not had the experience any, nearly any experience in the
broadcast or OTT or DTC space and have been tasked to work it
out. And they're really smart people.
(18:45):
But you just can't, you just can't pull that off.
It's way too complex a situationwhen you've got to add both that
complexity around the monetization approach, the
marketing approach. And then there's technical side,
which as we see, even for peoplethat have been established in
the market for years and years, is something you have to be
constantly focused on, on getting the technology right,
evolving it, improving it, making and, and making sure you
(19:07):
pick the right tech. Tech partners is so, so
critical. If you pick the one they, they
can just let everything else down in the mix.
And sometimes you can partner with certain organisations who
can do it all for you and then they just, there's a different
commercial approach. I don't think there's one right
way to do it, but there's one wrong, one wrong way and that's
(19:28):
to try and do it all yourself. That is just going to be long
winded, create lots of pain points and will leave you
really, you'll get caught out somewhere along the way.
So you have to start trusting. You have to find the right
partner to trust, the right partners to trust, I should say.
And there's loads of people who are both independent or tech
providers and solution providersand platform providers, let's
(19:50):
say like your endeavor streamings or your kids ways or
your view lifts or delta trays and so on and so forth, or see
those etcetera. That's their baggage to help do
this. And they all have different
levels and ways of approaching it.
And some things they do and somethings they don't do.
But you can't deal without talking to someone like like a
kids way who we're going to hearfrom, who's been able to help
someone like the Phoenix Suns successfully launch the right
(20:13):
approach. So yeah, it's super important
that you you bring the right person on board, the right
company on board to help you. And that'll lead us nicely into
that interview. Like I said, Dan from the
Phoenix Suns is going to take you a little bit through their
their story in terms of, you know, kind of how that all
played out as the RSN market started to collapse.
Because I think that is, you know, you got to understand why
(20:33):
these companies are making thesedecisions and they have a unique
story as to why they were sort of put in that position.
Because I what people may not know from a local team
perspective, they do rely on those Rs and broadcast deals.
Those are a major part of their revenue play.
So and that gets pulled away that that does create a bit of a
vacuum. So there is a, a strong
necessity to try to to do that. So for them, like similar
(20:57):
stories we've heard over the years, like this was something
they had to do to to, you know, stay competitive.
So he breaks down a little bit what's happened in the regional
Sports Network that that drove them to get to this point.
And then he also talks about what you just mentioned there,
Nick, like we simply did not have the expertise to do with
that. And when from, you know, kiss
way who I misspoke earlier, he'sthe Co founder and the CMO, not
the CEO, but CMO and on the leftand Co founder talking about how
(21:19):
they came in to provide that security to help them be able to
get that off the ground on a relatively short notice.
So it's a really interesting case study example of going D to
C in the manner in which they had to go about doing it.
Yeah, a super interesting story.I think it's one of the most
interesting ones actually to follow in the entire industry
because of the predicament you talked about, about their
transition from this RSN poweredand funded world that they lived
(21:43):
in to now having to find a way to shift as quickly as possible
customers, consumers and the whole internal approach around
it. So I think this, it is really,
really an interesting conversation discussing and, and
they go into it in quite, quite a lot of detail.
I do I would say for sometimes it's a good reminder for context
for those that are outside the US on how significant this
regional Sports Network is. You know, in some states, like I
(22:06):
don't know what it is in California, but it's like 50
million people live in the state, right?
That's as big as England in terms of size and scale.
So think about the importance ofthat giving that regional bit,
right, if you're trying to superserve a super fan base because
that's your local market and they're willing to and they've
been consuming this stuff for a long time.
They have high expectations and it's been highly lucrative for
(22:28):
them. But they're going, they have to
go through and stomach a very big transition with some cost
limitations to it. And I think the MLB examples are
really interesting, one when some of those clubs have been
through a similar journey and the actual league had to help
fund them through that, sort of bridge them through some of that
transition. So this whole space is super
interesting and I'm still alwaystrying to get to grips with it
(22:49):
because it's there's so many different examples of moving
parts in the space. So we'll go ahead and hand
things over to Steve McCaskill, our technology editor, who
handles that interview with Dan and Win.
But we appreciate you for joining us.
And by the time you hear this, you'll just come off your Easter
holidays. I hope you all had lots of
chocolate, lots of fun with the kids, Easter egg hunts and all
that fun stuff. We hope you're enjoying this
episode of Stream Time Sports. But we at Sportsburg excited to
(23:11):
announce at the end of this month, we'll be welcoming over
1000 top executives from across the industry to our flagship
event, Sports Pro Live, held here in London at the Kia Oval.
Join us on the 29th and 30th of April as we export the future of
the sports industry across vitaltopics including sponsorship,
media, tech, and women's sports.Head to our website
live.sportspro.com to check out the agendas, speakers, ticket
(23:34):
options, and more. As a podcast listener, you can
also enjoy 15% off your conference pass with the code
POD 15. That is POD 1/5 at checkout.
We'll see you there. Hello, I'm Steve McCaskill.
I'm Technology Editor at Sports Pro, and I'm here at Sports Pro
New York to talk about direct consumer streaming.
I'm joined by Dan Costello from the Phoenix Suns and BIM from
(23:57):
Kizway. Please, gentlemen, can you
introduce yourself? Sure.
I'm Dan Costello. I'm Executive Vice President and
Chief Revenue Officer for the Phoenix Suns and Phoenix
Mercury. Yes.
And my name is Wim Sveldens. I am the Co founder and today
Chief Marketing Officer for Kizby.
So you 2 entered into a partnership, you know, a year or
(24:18):
two in into it now and it was quite, you know, it was quite
ground breaking in terms of the structure that you you, you
know, decided upon in terms of taking, you know, Suns games
have been on cable since 1981. Move, you know, adapting to the
times by taking both the Suns and Mercury from the Women's
National Basketball Association,taking a combination of D to C
(24:40):
and free to air. Can you explain why you chose to
go down this path and how this partnership came about?
What were you looking for in a partner?
Yeah. So, so we, we spent a lot of
time probably 15 months, 18 months, you know, before our
Ascend deal was, was scheduled to complete kind of looking at
the landscape. And obviously if I go back to
(25:02):
those moments, you know, there was a lot of challenges in the
financial markets, in the RSN environment.
And so knowing our deal was up, we had to go through a specific
process and we were the first team to really breakthrough,
break free from the RSN environment, you know, which was
a great partnership for a numberof years.
(25:22):
But when you go on your sales floor and you go talk to fans
and you realize, like even your own team members at times aren't
figuring out how they can't figure out how to watch our
games. You know, they're not paying for
bundles or not, you know, integrated and traditional cable
programming. And so for us, we, we kind of
became focused on this idea of, you know, can we be all things
(25:43):
to everyone with an offering that we thought was really
unique, focused on over the air and a really dedicated
futuristic DTC platform with ourfriends at Kisley.
Yeah, and it goes back a little bit to the defining days of the
company. When we founded the company, we
always felt that something was about to change in in how sports
fans watched their favorite teams and that the traditional
(26:07):
cable model wouldn't continue asit was.
I saw at the time my kids were teenagers and they didn't really
watch TV anymore. So we we felt that there would
be an opportunity. And then it came two years ago
when we first partnered with with the Sun and the sort of the
cable, the RSN model started to break down and people no longer
watch on cable. And so we then came up with
(26:28):
opinion of innovative partnership between US and the
NBA and Grey to sort of make sure we reach all the fans.
And it's something that we always wanted to do when we
started the company. Yeah, we'll talk a bit more
about streaming in a second, butI'd like to hear a bit more
about the free to air component on on Grey and why you decided
that making your game, you know,some of the games available and
(26:50):
to the wise to available audience was was the best move.
And I know, you know, we talked about the decline of pay TV
households and the impact on thecable model to go over over the
air again, that was that was quite, quite something.
As a Brit, the the concept of teams giving away aerials to to
receive matches was a bit of a throwback for us because we all
have aerials. Obviously not the case in in the
(27:11):
US. So tell me about the free to
air, why you felt that was that was so important to this overall
strategy? Yeah.
Listen, I exposing as many people possible to your product
we view as a really great thing.You know, and I think for us it
was also a moment of time. You know, Matt HP had just
bought the franchise. You know, I think Matt as a
(27:32):
youngest owner in sports is really focused on if you do
right by the fan base, you know,the financial aspects, aspects
of a partnership can come. And I think for us, we've also
been a team that's always sold the inventory inside of our
games. So we've had this this team on
my revenue side that's really good at selling, you know,
(27:52):
television advertising and entitlements.
And you know, when you look at going over the air, you're also
looking at creating a much larger audience.
And so that first year we grew over 100% in terms of our
ratings. And, you know, that's math and
we can sell the advertising revenue for more.
Our partners also, you know, ourbrand partners, you know, have
(28:13):
this incredible thirst to get infront of our fan base also.
And so, you know, the combination of, you know, our
partners who want to reach a larger audience and a
marketplace is growing quickly. Phoenix is the 5th largest city
in the country. You know, having access to these
games becomes a really interesting opportunity for us.
It's on us to figure out the monetization strategy, but
(28:36):
again, that's why it's such a luxury to be able to just think
about audience growth. And I think between the over the
air strategy, you know, combinedwith a really unique DTC
platform, you know, we do have an offering for everyone in our
marketplace, But that over the air strategy has been really
unique in a great way for us to talk to the fans all day.
(28:57):
You know, if you're in Phoenix watching the early Morning News
on great television, our partner, you know, the the
broadcast starts off with a countdown clock to our games and
the news. And all day long they're talking
about our game. You know, that type of
partnership is, is valuable. You know when you're trying to
promote your products, you're trying to get people to know the
spirit of your teams. It's been a great partnership.
(29:19):
Yeah. And we're obviously are the the
streaming component in this thing, but we're very
comfortable with this sort of beam and stream a model it it
feels a little bit like you saidto like Back to the Future.
But it's all about what Dan saidis to make sure that you reach
all the fans. There's different viewing
patterns, there's different demographics that people who are
more comfortable with an over the air type viewing over more
(29:40):
traditional viewing. But clearly a younger generation
is more digitally savvy, is moremobile savvy.
And then we always feel as a streaming company, our job is to
not sort of replicate an over the air experiences, but to
really create a new experience. A new experience that is more
interactive, where people can participate, where they can
chat, where there's additional behind the scenes content that
(30:02):
is completely branded by the team, that gives the team a lot
of insights and data on on the users so we can serve them
better. So it's a comfortable model as
part of the transition that the industry is going through.
Obviously we discussed the cablemodel and that was a very
successful model for for many years.
It was also, you know, a very, very different model to what you
do now. And so be honest.
(30:22):
Before you went down this route,how much did you know about the
insurance and outs of the streaming market?
What obviously, you know, there's, there's just the, the,
I think we all understand the distribution elements of it, but
it's about, it's more than that.It can't just be taking linear
distribution and digitally, you know, taking it to digital
environment. So what were your priorities?
What did you want to make sure that you were doing?
(30:43):
And then what? How important was it to make
sure you had the right support? Listen, I think anybody who says
that they had it figured out before you, you start.
These are the early days and I Ithink, you know, we've, we're
really grateful that we have great resources at the NBA.
Who's been in this business. You know, I think league pass in
the way that they've partnered in the national side of, of the
(31:06):
game has been, you know, a greatpartnership.
So I, I think so highly of Bill Koenig and David Dennenberg,
they were by our side the entiretime.
You know, we also had support from endeavour, Karen Brock and
Hilary Mandel. You know, we wanted to surround
ourselves with a great group of people to help us evaluate and
make make the right decision. You know, at the end of the day,
(31:26):
we felt like the combination of Gray and Kisly was the perfect
combination for us. And a lot of that spirits built
on the willingness to to try newthings, the willingness to think
bigger, think long term, you know, finding the right partners
that have the fortitude to thinkreally long term and not be so
(31:47):
consumed with next month or nextquarter.
These are really long term strategies that, you know, if
you're just focused on just the pure revenue aspects of it every
day, every month, you know, I think it's way too early to be
focused on that. So I think our wins, you know,
maybe happen in 24 months, 36 months.
(32:08):
But honestly, if we can get insights and data every day that
help make better decisions for the next day, we feel great.
And that one-on-one relationshipwith the fan, you just can't
replace it. And so, you know, I think for
us, surrounding yourself to the right people, but also finding
the right like minded partners with Paramount.
Yeah. And maybe one thing to add to
that. So we're, we're always have a
(32:29):
fair amount of streaming experience.
We, we launched this company with a goal to sort of really be
the DTC partner for sports teamsand leaks.
That market took a little bit longer to develop than we
thought it would. But then one thing that we were
able to do also during COVID is to really go into other
verticals. I mean, we did a lot of things
with, with music streaming during COVID.
(32:50):
We did a lot of K pop. We still do a lot of K pop.
We do a lot of sort of creators and influences and it allows us
to learn a lot about the youngerdemographic.
How do they want to engage? How do you reach them?
How do you market them? How do you make them part of the
stream? And it's all about, like Dan
said, that one to one connection, because ultimately
streaming is a 1 to 1 medium. It's an interactive medium.
(33:11):
It's a bi directional thing. It's not just about bringing the
game to the remote fans. How do you make the fans in a
way feel that they are part of the game?
Just like the people who are in the arena, they feel they're
part of the game. How do you bring that same
feeling to to to fans at home? And because we are sort of in
different verticals, music and creators and influencers, it
(33:32):
allows us to sort of explore different technologies and then
make sure we take the best ones and we'll bring them to the
partnership with the Suns. Yeah, Dan, I think that the, the
data point is actually somethingthat gets lost for, you know, a
lot of casual observers how important it is to, you know,
there's that level of insight you can get on the fan, which
you know, can, can benefit on the organization in, in, in
(33:52):
different ways. And it's something you just
can't get on the on the on the layer front.
When you mentioned that, you know, you perhaps you thought
this market wouldn't develop as as quickly as you thought as you
thought it might. And again, you were, you were
both one of the first to do thisand you know, doing it from a
position of strength as well as relative first movers in this,
in this market or, you know, oneof the first movers in this
(34:12):
market. What learnings have you have you
taken from, from this? Is there anything that you, you
wish you did differently or anything that you can, you can
take to other, other, other clients in, in the future?
And, and, and then similarly, isthere anything that you, you've
learned that that you would, youknow, you now know better or you
were happy that you did? Yeah.
So a couple of things that that we learned and sometimes, you
(34:34):
know, as a entrepreneurial company, you don't know what the
future is going to be. We had no idea obviously that
the lockdown was coming. And, and, and at first there was
an enormous challenge for us. But then we realized, for
example, that some of the interactive features, like we
build an interactive feature where fans could pick their own
camera. And it turns out that became
overnight super popular in the KPop shower.
(34:57):
Now, I'd be the first to admit we didn't really know much about
K Pop. We worked with a bunch of the
Korean bands. We got to work with BTS and we
realized that the fans really wanted that one-on-one
customization. And so there was the ability to
learn and quickly react to the opportunities that we had.
And the other thing we realized,like you were just talking to
that that insight in terms of the fan, the fan demographic,
(35:20):
the fan usage, the fan interactivity and making the
fans feel part of the game. So we built fan walls and cheer
maps and there's sort of a lot of innovation that happened.
And as sort of as we are sort ofin this entrepreneurial mode
together, we are constantly likedance at learning, getting the
data, see how we can engage the fans and see how we can grow the
(35:40):
opportunity. I don't know if I do anything
differently to be candid. I mean, I, I think we went into
this with a feeling of, you know, we're not certain where
this goes, but we know it's correct.
And I think for us, the intention, if anything, would be
how do I plan for more experimentation?
How do I plan for more, you know, AB testing?
(36:02):
How do I plan for crazy ideas? I mean, I, I am also really
focused and our teams really focused on this idea of how
powerful creators can be and, you know, utilizing this DTC
environment to maybe introduce different demographics that
aren't sports fans. Like I'm really interested in in
(36:24):
K pop and the cross cultural opportunities and pop culture
that can happen when you introduce maybe a WNBA broadcast
to that audience. I'm interested in, you know,
ADTC environment maybe that's focused on food and cooking.
You know, obviously, if you lookat behind the scenes during our
games, there's a lot of food, there's a lot of cooking,
(36:46):
there's a lot of cross collaborative things that happen
when you go to a game that maybean audience that's not thinking
about basketball might be interested in.
And so, you know, I want to constantly and our team is
always thinking about how do we introduce new demographics,
completely new audiences into our our game.
And I think, you know, we have to continue to think about
(37:08):
stunning and talking about our games from a different
perspective, not just a super basketball fan.
And, you know, there's a lot of ways to capture our content, you
know, and, and, and acts on Snapchat, on Instagram, Meta has
A, and over different products. You know, I think we're going to
constantly focus our efforts on trying to differentiate what
(37:30):
we're doing D to C wise versus everything else that's out
there. And so, you know, if anything,
I'd probably over commit to experimenting and, and making
sure that I'm screwing up as much as possible because if I'm,
if I'm, if I'm making mistakes, it means that I'm trying, if
it's perfect every time. I don't think this is the right
product for the right for that type of team.
(37:50):
Fail fast, right yeah and when don't put yourself down.
I can guarantee you you know themost about K pop anyone who's
appeared on streams. So you can you can you can take
take that away. But further, you know on a more
serious note, that's absolutely the way we're seeing content
going. It's it's not just about the
game, it's about lifestyle. It's about building on those
stories that that, you know younger fans especially
(38:10):
especially want. So you've touched upon a couple
of the the the content and technological features that
you've you've integrated into the the D2C platform, but what
did you absolutely want to have in there to maximize the
engagement and and the monetization opportunities?
What was it that you felt would really appeal to fans and offer
something completely new? Yeah, What what did you think?
(38:32):
That absolutely had to be in there.
Yeah, I'll, I'll talk a little bit about the technology behind
it and I'll let man fill in withwith the content.
Like one thing that you see if you go to Sun's live, you could
obviously see the games and they're obviously behind the
paywall, but you can also see the the archive games.
You could also see extra behind the scenes content.
And what we find if we look at the analytics behind is that
(38:54):
fans come back much more regularly than there are games
because they are hungry for thatbehind the scenes capability.
So the ability to do live and live engagement, but then also
having archive games and then snippets from players or coaches
or behind the scenes. That thing is definitely
something that the platform does.
The other thing we really enjoy is the fact that people can
(39:14):
actually chat. There's actually ability to chat
and share and interact with eachother and there's always people
chatting and there's always quite a few people who should
like watch the chat. I mean, they don't necessarily
chat themselves, but they like to see some of the commentary
behind it. We always should do some
moderation behind it to make sure it's all, it's all safe.
But what we also notice from theanalytics is that, and we see
(39:35):
this with the Suns and with lotsof other content partners that
people who engage, they actuallytend to stay longer.
We're very happy with the viewing times that we're
getting. They tend to come back.
They tend to bring their friends, they tell, they tend to
tell their friends about it. So it's sort of a, a, a virtual
cycle that happens with technology that is very
different from what a traditional, let's say TV
(39:57):
experience would be. I don't have much more to add,
but I do think. You know, the only thing I'll
add is is probably just a a different word to describe, but
we really love to see from a product perspective.
It's just it builds community. You know, when you have a a like
minded group of people that are watching the game, you know, the
excitement that happens when yougo on a big run or there's a
(40:17):
great play is equal to when the team's having a hard time.
You know, the passion that fandom brings is kind of the,
the point that brings us all together.
And, you know, I think it's funny.
It is, is this one-on-one relationship in D2C.
You know, this product brings people together.
You know, you can watch it with people that are, you know,
(40:39):
sharing and experience at the same time and they enjoy
sharing. And so I, I really love the
community aspect of chats and, you know, bringing people
together. I think it's, it's a game
changer in terms of creating, you know, a really unique
community amongst your fan base.Thank you, Dan.
Thank you Ben for your insights.Thank you, I really appreciate
(40:59):
it. Now before you go, if you liked
what you heard today, be sure torate and review and just let me
know what you think on social. You can find me on most social
platforms at Sports Pro Nick. And please do spread the word of
the podcast. There's no better way of
marketing than word of mouth, whether that be in person or on
social media. And if you don't like what
you've heard, what you think we should be doing more or less of
something, then reach out and let me know as I'd love to hear
(41:22):
from you. Thanks.
Stream timers until next time.
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