April 29, 2025 • 21 mins
What is the true meaning of commitment? Is it really "till death do us part"? Brian breaks down the purpose of our vows, how to navigate partnership challenges, what happily ever after means, getting through sickness and health, and much, much more!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is pod Popular podcast for the people, the Great
Love Debate. It's the Great Love Debate, the Great Love Debate.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
It's a great love de bab Hi again everyone, It's
Brian Howie. Welcome to the Great Love Debate, the world's
number one dating and relationship podcast since twenty fifteen. I
am here in the very fine studios of Pod Populi,
podcast for the People. I am back at the one
in Scottsdale, Arizona. It is very very early. It's a
(00:36):
very early desert morning in the gloaming as they say,
So you get me yet, just me today? Uh?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
And I know.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
One of the the fundamental tenets of podcasting, which which
I do subscribe to and I preach to people whose
podcasts I help produce, is to always keep your content evergreen,
Meaning if you're listening to this, if you're listening to
this within you know, four minutes of an episode dropping,
which some of you are, or four years after it drops,
(01:07):
the content of what I'm talking about still has to
have relevancy. So I'm gonna beend the rules on that
at TAD because I'm gonna reference something that happened within
a few days of me recording this. But it triggered
something that I think has a bigger purpose and conversation
and meeting, and I think you're gonna find relevancy in
(01:27):
it no matter when you are listening. So the means
do justify the ends, or the ends do justify the
means one of the two. So a few days ago,
as of this moment, this morning, Sandra Day O'Connor died.
So those of you who don't know who she was,
she was the first female Supreme Court justice, uh back
(01:50):
in the eighties because Reagan imported her.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
So it's back.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Then, and that is always an accomplishment that will be
ever green. She will have that in her oh bit
and in her bio forever. And she served in that
position for about twenty five years, and that position is
normally a lifetime commitment, but she left after two and
a half decades to spend more time with and to
(02:16):
care for her husband of more than forty years, the
love of her life, because he was suffering from Alzheimer's.
And this is one of the first circumstances where we
started to have a conversation in this country about about Alzheimer's.
Back then, it's a very public thing. She stepped down
from a Supreme Court justice to care for this husband.
(02:39):
So you might think, as you're listening, is this a
health episode? This is a podcast about love and relationships.
I think you'll see the relevancy here, so stick with me. So,
after a few years of trying to care for her husband,
it became beyond her capacity, and Justice O'Connor's husband he
(02:59):
was entered into a facility to get full time professional care,
and she kept visiting him just about every day. But
it got to the point where his Alzheimer's he no
longer recognized her, but she kept visiting him even after that,
to the point where she went to the facility and
(03:21):
one day she noticed that he was spending a great
time with and was apparently completely smitten with another woman,
which has got to be one of the strangest feelings
and complicated bunch of emotions. Ever, he doesn't recognize her,
but she's gonna he's with her. She couldn't be mad
(03:45):
at him, I guess you know, she could be frustrated
with the fact that he could he could still feel
and express emotion, just not to her. And I guess
you know she apparently she could be happy that he
that he loved that her loved one, the love of
her life, felt this happiness and peace, even if it
(04:09):
was with someone who wasn't her after all these years,
his last days, months or whatever, where him feeling some
bond with somebody who wasn't her. And the whole story
is I was reading it, and it was and it
was sort of made public by, of all people, Patty Davis,
who is Ronald Reagan's daughter, and she had heard it
(04:31):
from Santa Deal O'Connor's son. They felt this kinship over
Alzheimer's because Ronald Reagan had a tune whatever. And the
son revealed that this is what his mother was going through,
that she goes into the facility and she sees that
her husband is having a relationship with another woman. And I,
you know when I when I read it, I was like,
(04:52):
I had probably the same reaction as Justice O'Connor did.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Namely, what the fuck? And then I thought about.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Which is why we're here this morning, What is our obligation?
What does it mean to love forever and quote unquote unconditionally,
and how do we deal with life and matrimonial curveballs?
And sadly, Justice O'Connor a few days ago died of Alzheimer's,
(05:24):
and her husband ultimately did dieve of it too, possibly
in the arms of another woman, and obviously the president
who appointed her, Ronald Reagan, he famously suffered from it
as well. It's such a devastating thing that a lot
of you guys have had a parent or loved one
suffer from Alzheimer's, dementia, all of these things where the
mind goes, possibly before the heart can go, And it
(05:50):
is about as frustrating and confusing and heartbreaking condition as
you could possibly imagine. So I want to think about that,
and the obligation and the partnership. So I pulled up
the wording, the exact wording of excuse me of the
(06:11):
I guess the most traditional of vows, the wedding vows,
the one that to this day, probably two thirds of
marriages begin with, I take you to be my husband wife,
to having to hold from this day forward, for better,
for worse, for richer, for poor, in sickness and in health,
(06:36):
to love and to cherish till death do us part.
And that's some serious shit I think about it. That's
a serious oath, especially the death part. There's no wiggle
room for we're going to be gather for eternity or
afterlife or reincarnation. In that sentence, that is that is
our end of the road. And I've obviously never said
(06:58):
those words until now because I've never been married. But
I do believe in the fundamental premise of them, even
though I don't necessarily believe in quote unquote unconditional love.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
There are always conditions. And when you.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Say these words, sure, they're basically saying we're going to
stick together through the tough times. That's what they're saying.
But how tough, career, job loss, addiction, infidelity, emotional instability,
(07:40):
all of it, all of it has its qualifiers. So
that's what I want to get into. I want to
take a bit of a dive on all of this,
but I gotta take a quick break, and I hope
you stay with me for better or for worse, for richer,
for poor, And if I don't hear from our sponsors,
we will definitely be poor. So we will be back
right after this, and we are back now. Me I've
(08:09):
been somebody who has always believed that you, as much
as possible, you've got to stick through your partner's shit
as long as four things happen. I think four things
have to happen for you to stand by or stick
with your partner when.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Something comes up. I think they have.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
To own their shit. I think they have to demonstrate
that they are working on their shit. I think they
have to be seriously remorseful about the situation that led
to their shit, and that they understand the effect that
their shit has had on the relationship. And I think
(08:53):
those four things can get you through a whole lot
of stuff and at least find the both of you
at a place where you can see some light or
some possibility to get through it to continue. Because if
this person did or didn't do something simply because they
no longer cared about you, or they're completely indifferent about
(09:15):
the effect on you, or they never really cared about it,
I think at least two of those conditions won't apply.
They probably won't work on it, and they probably won't
own it, and they don't really give a shit how
it affects you. So let me circle back to the
Sanderdal O'Connor situation for a second. Was her husband consciously
(09:38):
or subconsciously always craving attention and affection from another woman,
and once the part of his brain that could could
reason with or suppress that stopped functioning. Was he suddenly
liberated to seek love somewhere else? I don't know. I
don't know she thought about that. She's a very smart woman.
She is Supreme Court justice, I mean, and I hope
(10:02):
she didn't have to spend time thinking about that or
overthinking it, because the why of it all and the
when did this start? Or and how did this happen?
That will kill you. So back to the vows for
a second. If two thirds of the people getting married
are saying these words and the other third of you,
(10:23):
I've been to some of your weddings and heard some
of your original vows, and all I have to say is, yikes,
you guys are some of you are not great at
the vows.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Stick to the script, stick to those I think. But anyway, if.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Two thirds of the people are saying the traditional words,
what percentage of them have thought about what they really
mean and are truly prepared to go the distance, no
matter what better or worse.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
I hope lots.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
I mean, I hope lots me because I'm sort of
romantic that way, and I do believe in one guy
and one girl. If it's right forever and beyond caveat
is always if it's right. But I think that should
be the goal of both of you when you say it.
We are taking this leap, and it is into decades
together and a life together, and a life together that's
going to be filled with at best twist and turns.
(11:23):
And you're probably like, but you've never been married, Brian Howie,
doesn't mean I don't believe it and still aspire to it.
You've heard me on this podcast many times talk about
when people get divorced, and I always ask them, not
when did you know the marriage was over? I asked them,
when did you know it wasn't going to last forever?
(11:45):
And I'm always astounded by how many, especially women, give
the answer when he proposed or before.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
We got married.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
And so if that's the case, clearly the richer and
the poor thing wasn't gonna be a deal breaker. You know,
richer one of you will probably leave poor. You almost
assuredly gonna leave sickness and in health, you know. I
think people do understand that should be a fundamental part
of your commitment to each other. If one gets ill
(12:18):
or God forbid, incapacitated, don't those vows create kind of
this oral oath of I'm not leaving you no matter what,
and I'm gonna visit you at that care facility, even
if you're holding hands with another woman, because you don't
really know what you're doing, and you can say to me, ah,
(12:39):
that's easy for you to say, you know till you've
faced it.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Yeah, all of us, damn right, You're probably right.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
None of us can really know how we're gonna act
in a situation or when confronted with the reality of, oh,
this is it. You know, I personally have stuck with
a whole lot of relationships with partners who were, no
doubt struggling with some things, all sorts of things emotionally
and physically. And I do think that's the obligation of
(13:09):
being a partner, whether it's your actual spouse or not.
It says I've got you and we've got this together.
I think that's the very best part of a relationship
is being able to say that and feel that. I
don't think the's anything more romantic than that, and I
don't think there's anything more bonding than getting through the
(13:31):
storm together. But all sorts of things can change. All
sorts of things. So when you're saying those words on
the altar or wherever you're having your ceremony, you got
to think, are they just words rooted in tradition or
are you really giving some thought.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
And commitment to the meaning and some meaning to the commitment.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
I mean, you got two hundred friends and families at
the ceremony, you know, waiting to get to the bar
and the reception. So I suppose listing off a bunch
of well, unless this happens, you know, qualifiers, It isn't
really a solid recipe for a fun wedding or probably
a lasting marriage. But is there any thought given in
the moment of what you are prepared to deal with?
(14:24):
Everyone can do the honeymoon and the house hunting and
the gift receiving and the pro creating and all the
fun stuff, but not everyone can deal with the emotional
breakdowns and the problem children and the midlife crisis and
(14:44):
the meddling in laws, and the gambling addiction and the
and the hot nanny and the handsome tennis coach and
the job loss and I don't know, insecurity, impotence, infidelity,
anything else that might come up. And there's obviously a
million examples of oh my god, fuck that, obviously I
(15:04):
would be out, And there was also the obvious of
course I would take care of them or stick with
them through this and that, you know, but a circumstance
like what happened with the O'Connors, she did continue to visit.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Would you.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Would you be like, this doesn't make me feel right,
but I'm going to be there for him till the end,
no matter what, because I don't know what they're going
through and I just have to be there, because that's
the commitment I made every time you visited. Would you
beat yourself up trying to find explanations or would you
be selfless enough in the moments to be like, it
(15:47):
doesn't matter what it means for me. I care about
what this means for him and to him, and I'm
gonna be there for him. You got to think about
things like what if I stop visiting and then this
part of the brain does remember me and wonders where
I've been all this time, and who is this new
(16:09):
woman holding his hand? What if the brain clicks back
on I don't know.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
The diseases is.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
An unpredictable thing, or is it like Helen Hunt and
Tom Hanks and castaway. She thought he was dead in
in order to heal, she had to move on, I
think too quickly, but as quickly as possible. So when
does self preservation kick in over any sort of matrimonial obligation.
(16:37):
These are tough questions, and I think every circumstance an example,
does have some nuance, and the answers aren't always easy
to come by. So I guess I'm just curious as
to about how much thought, if you've gotten married or
gotten divorced or in a relationship, have you given to it,
And how much thought is even healthy to give, because
you could you could drive yourself nuts thinking about every
(17:00):
single scenario and you probably wouldn't even come close to
thinking of ninety percent of them. I personally think if
you love them and they love you, you are together
pretty much no matter what, even the hard part. But
I guess the details are in your different definition of
(17:20):
pretty much. Life's hard and love is one of the
hardest aspects of that hard life because there's no straight
path and there are no assured outcomes. But I think
there can be a happily ever after, which is the
(17:44):
you know leads into the misnomer of the hopeless romantic.
The hopeless romantics are the ones who are absolutely riddled
with hope.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
And I think if you're in.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
And you hope for the best and try to navigate
the worst, I think that's it, which really isn't a
bad way to end your vows. I love you, you
love me. Let's hope for the best and try to
navigate the worst. May you kiss the bride, Let's get
to it. Try that on for size at least as
a philosophy. You engage with age couples out there, and
(18:17):
there are a lot of you, because a lot of
you email us and tell us you got engaged after
meeting one of our great love debate shows. You are
welcome very much. Have just have that conversation with your
partner to be. Don't list all the well I think
I'd be okay with this, but not if you do that.
It's not about the details. It's about the philosophy and
(18:40):
the understanding of where you are as a couple and
where you want to be.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Till death to you part.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
We're going to give it all and we're going to
try the fuck out of this marriage for as long
as we can and with everything we have. And if
you're like, well, no, I'm gonna give it about eighty
percent because I think is my starter marriage and in
my thirties, I'm gonna get it right.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Please don't go through with it. That's my advice to you.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
I think you have to be prepared to go hard,
go all out, leave everything on the table, gas in
the tank, whatever metaphor you want to use, and.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Hope for the absolute best.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
The old baseball saying lots of people can hit the fastball,
it's dealing with the curveball. That's where the talent lies.
That's where the payoff is. And together, I think you're
gonna have to try and handle the curves. And you
got to recognize that going in. Every couple can do
the easy part, can you do the hard parts? And
(19:47):
if at the end of the day your best wasn't
good enough, oh well your best was good enough, maybe
not for the marriage, but for you. And you could
say the vows mattered and I met them. The death
was of the relationship and thus you parted the end,
but you gave it a full go. So I'm not
(20:10):
saying you need to put all your chips on the
table and give all the love and get nothing back.
And I'm not saying you need to give love to
somebody who's clearly gone or clearly not worthy of it
from you, or they're just absent from any aspect of reality.
They're just they're not on the same page and they
never will be. And that can change two days or
twenty years into a relationship.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
It can change.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
What I'm saying is to find some initial sincerity and
some real intent into what this commitment means to the
marriage and to each other, for better or worse, to
have and to hold, to love and to cherish. Because
I think that's worth saying, and if it's worth saying,
(20:55):
I think it's worth having.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Go to Great Love Debate.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
At gmail dot com. Send us your thoughts on this
or anything else. Please like, share, follow, and review this podcast.
Your reviews still mean a lot in the podcasting ecosystem
because till death to us part as always at the
Great Love Debate, we.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Never stop making love. See you next time.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
The Great Love Debate. It's the Great Love Debate.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
The Great Love Debate. It's a Great Love Debase.
This is pod Popular podcast for the people, the Great
Love Debate. It's the Great Love Debate, the Great Love Debate.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
It's a great love de bab Hi again everyone, It's
Brian Howie. Welcome to the Great Love Debate, the world's
number one dating and relationship podcast since twenty fifteen. I
am here in the very fine studios of Pod Populi,
podcast for the People. I am back at the one
in Scottsdale, Arizona. It is very very early. It's a
(00:36):
very early desert morning in the gloaming as they say,
So you get me yet, just me today? Uh?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
And I know.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
One of the the fundamental tenets of podcasting, which which
I do subscribe to and I preach to people whose
podcasts I help produce, is to always keep your content evergreen,
Meaning if you're listening to this, if you're listening to
this within you know, four minutes of an episode dropping,
which some of you are, or four years after it drops,
(01:07):
the content of what I'm talking about still has to
have relevancy. So I'm gonna beend the rules on that
at TAD because I'm gonna reference something that happened within
a few days of me recording this. But it triggered
something that I think has a bigger purpose and conversation
and meeting, and I think you're gonna find relevancy in
(01:27):
it no matter when you are listening. So the means
do justify the ends, or the ends do justify the
means one of the two. So a few days ago,
as of this moment, this morning, Sandra Day O'Connor died.
So those of you who don't know who she was,
she was the first female Supreme Court justice, uh back
(01:50):
in the eighties because Reagan imported her.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
So it's back.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Then, and that is always an accomplishment that will be
ever green. She will have that in her oh bit
and in her bio forever. And she served in that
position for about twenty five years, and that position is
normally a lifetime commitment, but she left after two and
a half decades to spend more time with and to
(02:16):
care for her husband of more than forty years, the
love of her life, because he was suffering from Alzheimer's.
And this is one of the first circumstances where we
started to have a conversation in this country about about Alzheimer's.
Back then, it's a very public thing. She stepped down
from a Supreme Court justice to care for this husband.
(02:39):
So you might think, as you're listening, is this a
health episode? This is a podcast about love and relationships.
I think you'll see the relevancy here, so stick with me. So,
after a few years of trying to care for her husband,
it became beyond her capacity, and Justice O'Connor's husband he
(02:59):
was entered into a facility to get full time professional care,
and she kept visiting him just about every day. But
it got to the point where his Alzheimer's he no
longer recognized her, but she kept visiting him even after that,
to the point where she went to the facility and
(03:21):
one day she noticed that he was spending a great
time with and was apparently completely smitten with another woman,
which has got to be one of the strangest feelings
and complicated bunch of emotions. Ever, he doesn't recognize her,
but she's gonna he's with her. She couldn't be mad
(03:45):
at him, I guess you know, she could be frustrated
with the fact that he could he could still feel
and express emotion, just not to her. And I guess
you know she apparently she could be happy that he
that he loved that her loved one, the love of
her life, felt this happiness and peace, even if it
(04:09):
was with someone who wasn't her after all these years,
his last days, months or whatever, where him feeling some
bond with somebody who wasn't her. And the whole story
is I was reading it, and it was and it
was sort of made public by, of all people, Patty Davis,
who is Ronald Reagan's daughter, and she had heard it
(04:31):
from Santa Deal O'Connor's son. They felt this kinship over
Alzheimer's because Ronald Reagan had a tune whatever. And the
son revealed that this is what his mother was going through,
that she goes into the facility and she sees that
her husband is having a relationship with another woman. And I,
you know when I when I read it, I was like,
(04:52):
I had probably the same reaction as Justice O'Connor did.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Namely, what the fuck? And then I thought about.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Which is why we're here this morning, What is our obligation?
What does it mean to love forever and quote unquote unconditionally,
and how do we deal with life and matrimonial curveballs?
And sadly, Justice O'Connor a few days ago died of Alzheimer's,
(05:24):
and her husband ultimately did dieve of it too, possibly
in the arms of another woman, and obviously the president
who appointed her, Ronald Reagan, he famously suffered from it
as well. It's such a devastating thing that a lot
of you guys have had a parent or loved one
suffer from Alzheimer's, dementia, all of these things where the
mind goes, possibly before the heart can go, And it
(05:50):
is about as frustrating and confusing and heartbreaking condition as
you could possibly imagine. So I want to think about that,
and the obligation and the partnership. So I pulled up
the wording, the exact wording of excuse me of the
(06:11):
I guess the most traditional of vows, the wedding vows,
the one that to this day, probably two thirds of
marriages begin with, I take you to be my husband wife,
to having to hold from this day forward, for better,
for worse, for richer, for poor, in sickness and in health,
(06:36):
to love and to cherish till death do us part.
And that's some serious shit I think about it. That's
a serious oath, especially the death part. There's no wiggle
room for we're going to be gather for eternity or
afterlife or reincarnation. In that sentence, that is that is
our end of the road. And I've obviously never said
(06:58):
those words until now because I've never been married. But
I do believe in the fundamental premise of them, even
though I don't necessarily believe in quote unquote unconditional love.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
There are always conditions. And when you.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Say these words, sure, they're basically saying we're going to
stick together through the tough times. That's what they're saying.
But how tough, career, job loss, addiction, infidelity, emotional instability,
(07:40):
all of it, all of it has its qualifiers. So
that's what I want to get into. I want to
take a bit of a dive on all of this,
but I gotta take a quick break, and I hope
you stay with me for better or for worse, for richer,
for poor, And if I don't hear from our sponsors,
we will definitely be poor. So we will be back
right after this, and we are back now. Me I've
(08:09):
been somebody who has always believed that you, as much
as possible, you've got to stick through your partner's shit
as long as four things happen. I think four things
have to happen for you to stand by or stick
with your partner when.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Something comes up. I think they have.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
To own their shit. I think they have to demonstrate
that they are working on their shit. I think they
have to be seriously remorseful about the situation that led
to their shit, and that they understand the effect that
their shit has had on the relationship. And I think
(08:53):
those four things can get you through a whole lot
of stuff and at least find the both of you
at a place where you can see some light or
some possibility to get through it to continue. Because if
this person did or didn't do something simply because they
no longer cared about you, or they're completely indifferent about
(09:15):
the effect on you, or they never really cared about it,
I think at least two of those conditions won't apply.
They probably won't work on it, and they probably won't
own it, and they don't really give a shit how
it affects you. So let me circle back to the
Sanderdal O'Connor situation for a second. Was her husband consciously
(09:38):
or subconsciously always craving attention and affection from another woman,
and once the part of his brain that could could
reason with or suppress that stopped functioning. Was he suddenly
liberated to seek love somewhere else? I don't know. I
don't know she thought about that. She's a very smart woman.
She is Supreme Court justice, I mean, and I hope
(10:02):
she didn't have to spend time thinking about that or
overthinking it, because the why of it all and the
when did this start? Or and how did this happen?
That will kill you. So back to the vows for
a second. If two thirds of the people getting married
are saying these words and the other third of you,
(10:23):
I've been to some of your weddings and heard some
of your original vows, and all I have to say is, yikes,
you guys are some of you are not great at
the vows.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Stick to the script, stick to those I think. But anyway, if.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Two thirds of the people are saying the traditional words,
what percentage of them have thought about what they really
mean and are truly prepared to go the distance, no
matter what better or worse.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
I hope lots.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
I mean, I hope lots me because I'm sort of
romantic that way, and I do believe in one guy
and one girl. If it's right forever and beyond caveat
is always if it's right. But I think that should
be the goal of both of you when you say it.
We are taking this leap, and it is into decades
together and a life together, and a life together that's
going to be filled with at best twist and turns.
(11:23):
And you're probably like, but you've never been married, Brian Howie,
doesn't mean I don't believe it and still aspire to it.
You've heard me on this podcast many times talk about
when people get divorced, and I always ask them, not
when did you know the marriage was over? I asked them,
when did you know it wasn't going to last forever?
(11:45):
And I'm always astounded by how many, especially women, give
the answer when he proposed or before.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
We got married.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
And so if that's the case, clearly the richer and
the poor thing wasn't gonna be a deal breaker. You know,
richer one of you will probably leave poor. You almost
assuredly gonna leave sickness and in health, you know. I
think people do understand that should be a fundamental part
of your commitment to each other. If one gets ill
(12:18):
or God forbid, incapacitated, don't those vows create kind of
this oral oath of I'm not leaving you no matter what,
and I'm gonna visit you at that care facility, even
if you're holding hands with another woman, because you don't
really know what you're doing, and you can say to me, ah,
(12:39):
that's easy for you to say, you know till you've
faced it.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Yeah, all of us, damn right, You're probably right.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
None of us can really know how we're gonna act
in a situation or when confronted with the reality of, oh,
this is it. You know, I personally have stuck with
a whole lot of relationships with partners who were, no
doubt struggling with some things, all sorts of things emotionally
and physically. And I do think that's the obligation of
(13:09):
being a partner, whether it's your actual spouse or not.
It says I've got you and we've got this together.
I think that's the very best part of a relationship
is being able to say that and feel that. I
don't think the's anything more romantic than that, and I
don't think there's anything more bonding than getting through the
(13:31):
storm together. But all sorts of things can change. All
sorts of things. So when you're saying those words on
the altar or wherever you're having your ceremony, you got
to think, are they just words rooted in tradition or
are you really giving some thought.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
And commitment to the meaning and some meaning to the commitment.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
I mean, you got two hundred friends and families at
the ceremony, you know, waiting to get to the bar
and the reception. So I suppose listing off a bunch
of well, unless this happens, you know, qualifiers, It isn't
really a solid recipe for a fun wedding or probably
a lasting marriage. But is there any thought given in
the moment of what you are prepared to deal with?
(14:24):
Everyone can do the honeymoon and the house hunting and
the gift receiving and the pro creating and all the
fun stuff, but not everyone can deal with the emotional
breakdowns and the problem children and the midlife crisis and
(14:44):
the meddling in laws, and the gambling addiction and the
and the hot nanny and the handsome tennis coach and
the job loss and I don't know, insecurity, impotence, infidelity,
anything else that might come up. And there's obviously a
million examples of oh my god, fuck that, obviously I
(15:04):
would be out, And there was also the obvious of
course I would take care of them or stick with
them through this and that, you know, but a circumstance
like what happened with the O'Connors, she did continue to visit.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Would you.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Would you be like, this doesn't make me feel right,
but I'm going to be there for him till the end,
no matter what, because I don't know what they're going
through and I just have to be there, because that's
the commitment I made every time you visited. Would you
beat yourself up trying to find explanations or would you
be selfless enough in the moments to be like, it
(15:47):
doesn't matter what it means for me. I care about
what this means for him and to him, and I'm
gonna be there for him. You got to think about
things like what if I stop visiting and then this
part of the brain does remember me and wonders where
I've been all this time, and who is this new
(16:09):
woman holding his hand? What if the brain clicks back
on I don't know.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
The diseases is.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
An unpredictable thing, or is it like Helen Hunt and
Tom Hanks and castaway. She thought he was dead in
in order to heal, she had to move on, I
think too quickly, but as quickly as possible. So when
does self preservation kick in over any sort of matrimonial obligation.
(16:37):
These are tough questions, and I think every circumstance an example,
does have some nuance, and the answers aren't always easy
to come by. So I guess I'm just curious as
to about how much thought, if you've gotten married or
gotten divorced or in a relationship, have you given to it,
And how much thought is even healthy to give, because
you could you could drive yourself nuts thinking about every
(17:00):
single scenario and you probably wouldn't even come close to
thinking of ninety percent of them. I personally think if
you love them and they love you, you are together
pretty much no matter what, even the hard part. But
I guess the details are in your different definition of
(17:20):
pretty much. Life's hard and love is one of the
hardest aspects of that hard life because there's no straight
path and there are no assured outcomes. But I think
there can be a happily ever after, which is the
(17:44):
you know leads into the misnomer of the hopeless romantic.
The hopeless romantics are the ones who are absolutely riddled
with hope.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
And I think if you're in.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
And you hope for the best and try to navigate
the worst, I think that's it, which really isn't a
bad way to end your vows. I love you, you
love me. Let's hope for the best and try to
navigate the worst. May you kiss the bride, Let's get
to it. Try that on for size at least as
a philosophy. You engage with age couples out there, and
(18:17):
there are a lot of you, because a lot of
you email us and tell us you got engaged after
meeting one of our great love debate shows. You are
welcome very much. Have just have that conversation with your
partner to be. Don't list all the well I think
I'd be okay with this, but not if you do that.
It's not about the details. It's about the philosophy and
(18:40):
the understanding of where you are as a couple and
where you want to be.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Till death to you part.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
We're going to give it all and we're going to
try the fuck out of this marriage for as long
as we can and with everything we have. And if
you're like, well, no, I'm gonna give it about eighty
percent because I think is my starter marriage and in
my thirties, I'm gonna get it right.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Please don't go through with it. That's my advice to you.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
I think you have to be prepared to go hard,
go all out, leave everything on the table, gas in
the tank, whatever metaphor you want to use, and.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Hope for the absolute best.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
The old baseball saying lots of people can hit the fastball,
it's dealing with the curveball. That's where the talent lies.
That's where the payoff is. And together, I think you're
gonna have to try and handle the curves. And you
got to recognize that going in. Every couple can do
the easy part, can you do the hard parts? And
(19:47):
if at the end of the day your best wasn't
good enough, oh well your best was good enough, maybe
not for the marriage, but for you. And you could
say the vows mattered and I met them. The death
was of the relationship and thus you parted the end,
but you gave it a full go. So I'm not
(20:10):
saying you need to put all your chips on the
table and give all the love and get nothing back.
And I'm not saying you need to give love to
somebody who's clearly gone or clearly not worthy of it
from you, or they're just absent from any aspect of reality.
They're just they're not on the same page and they
never will be. And that can change two days or
twenty years into a relationship.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
It can change.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
What I'm saying is to find some initial sincerity and
some real intent into what this commitment means to the
marriage and to each other, for better or worse, to
have and to hold, to love and to cherish. Because
I think that's worth saying, and if it's worth saying,
(20:55):
I think it's worth having.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Go to Great Love Debate.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
At gmail dot com. Send us your thoughts on this
or anything else. Please like, share, follow, and review this podcast.
Your reviews still mean a lot in the podcasting ecosystem
because till death to us part as always at the
Great Love Debate, we.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Never stop making love. See you next time.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
The Great Love Debate. It's the Great Love Debate.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
The Great Love Debate. It's a Great Love Debase.
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