October 28, 2025 • 44 mins
Are the wrong couples getting divorced? Can the end of a relationship be the beginning of a better part of life...and love? "Your Amazing Divorce" host Doreen Yaffa drops by to answer all the tough divorce questions - how to know when it's over, what to do when it is, the most common causes, the simplest solutions, and everything else you need to know when you know it's not going to last. Plus...who really needs a prenup, and why!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Pod Popular podcast for the people, the Great
Love Debate. It's the Great Love Debate, the Great Love Debate.
It's a Great Love Debate. Hi again everyone, It's Brian Howie.
Welcome to The Great Love Debate, the world's number one
(00:23):
Dating in a Relationship podcast since twenty fifteen. I'm here
in the fine studios of Pod Popular in Boca Raton, Florida.
It's very very nice here, and over the last I
don't know years, so we've done quite a few shows
about the end of relationships. And we're not doing that
(00:43):
to try and put a down around things. We are
in the love business here. We're selling hope around here.
But sometimes the best way to get into a good
relationship is to get out of a bad relationship. And
we've had authors on here, and we have had broken
hearted people on here, and we've had therapists on here.
And I've got somebody I've tried to get in here
for a couple of months now. I finally got her
(01:05):
busy schedule to sync with mine. She's the host of
Your Amazing Divorce podcast. She's been a marriage, family lawyer,
life coach, helping out the ladies maybe even the men.
For many, many years, and she's going to answer a
lot of my questions, which I know are a lot
of your questions, because you guys have been emailing me
(01:25):
this about for a long time during yaffa. How are you?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I'm great?
Speaker 1 (01:29):
How are you?
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Thank you for having me?
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Are there too many divorces or not enough?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Oh, that's a good question. I don't know. I guess
it's just about right.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
It's right about Maybe it's not the right ones.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
You know, things just kind of happen in relationships. People
just grow apart.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
So yeah, I think so. We talked about this on
a prior podcast where you know the old stat that
half of marriages and in divorce, But there's a big
chunk that stay together unhappily. And there's a bunch of
reasons for that, kids, money or whatever. But a lot
of people stay into it because they just don't either
know how or they're afraid of the process.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Of divorce, absolutely one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
And what are they afraid of? Are they afraid the
legal paperwork? They're afraid that it's going to be a mistake.
Are they afraid that they don't know where to turn?
The cost? Why? Why do all of it?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
I think that people generally when they're in an unhappy relationship,
on a happy marriage, they they're afraid of the unknown,
you know. The people tend to stay in relationships because
they know what they're getting, even though it's bad.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
The devil, you know.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Oh yeah, And so you know, just as the humans
that we are, we're just most of us are not
looking for change. We might want change, but getting there
is difficult, and especially when you're in a bad relationship.
So it's a cost, it's the kids, it's you know,
what am I going to do? I'm going to lose
(02:52):
half of everything. So and the fear of the legal
process itself is always, you know, something that's of great concern.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
How often you run across I get that the two
biggest issues traditionally in divorce are money and custody. Sure,
how often is it that one just doesn't want to
get divorced? The emotion? How much of it is just
they're not on the same page?
Speaker 2 (03:14):
I think most of the time, you know. You know,
I've been practicing now in Florida for twenty eight years,
and I've seen a great evolution in the law and
because of the legal standard that as lawyers were basically
governed by it's pretty simple, it's not complicated. You know,
there's an equitable distribution, there's asset division, presumption of fifty
(03:38):
to fifty not so challenging to figure out.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Maybe they have issues as to the value of a
business or the value of a real state or something,
but easy. You have custody issues, which nowadays most of
the parents work out. It's primarily they just don't want
to get divorced. Basically, maybe one party doesn't or again
they're in the process, but they're just fearful, and so
(04:03):
everyone's in this emotional state that they're just kind of
stuck in. I think as lawyers it's our responsibility to
help nudge them in that direction and let them know
it's going to be okay, we're going to get through this.
You're going to get to the better side of your life,
and you will.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
And that's a big part of it, understanding when they
get through this storm that there's new opportunities in bright
sunny skies or whatever. But in the heat of the
emotion and whatever the reasons are for people getting divorced,
it's never a good thing that something has to end
that you at some point had high hopes.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
For absolutely, you know, but they do get there. And
I have to tell you, in my twenty eight years
of doing this, I can maybe name on one hand
how many people went through the divorce process and ended
up being in a worse position. Very few, if I
was to statistically look at it, I am sure most
(04:57):
got to a better place.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
And most, like I wish they did this years ago.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, and you know it just because your family is
ending in the traditional sense, it's still a family if
you have children together, right, and so you know, many
people see it as a failure. I tend to see
it or help people to see it's the beginning of
some different relationship that you're going to have with your
ex and that can be a beautiful thing. I mean,
(05:20):
I'm a prime example of that.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
We were in the state of Florida as we record this,
and you practice in Florida. Florida is easier than some
other states. Some other states is like a long cooling off,
like I think Maryland is like that, where like you
can't do anything for a year.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, I'm not sure, but I know that we are
one of the easier states, and there are requirements like
here you have to be a resident for six months
before you can get divorced. But there's no like if
after you fulfill the residency requirement, you can get divorced.
One party can want the divorce, the other doesn't need
to want it. It's still going to happen, and there's
(05:55):
no cooling off period. There's steps to get through it,
but it's not like you have to wait and consider
things and take you know, an abatement. No, it's not
like that now.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
I asked a big network TV exec one time, I go,
how come there's not shows about divorce lawyers? And he said,
I go, there's a lot of legal shows, but very
rarely as one devoted to it, to a divorce law,
family law practice. And he goes, it hits too close
to home and people don't want to watch it. But
(06:26):
you've dove it into this, you're passionate about it. Yeah,
and you spin it on your podcast in real life
as I am doing something that's going to help people's lives,
How did you get interested in this aspect of law.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
I came from a divorce family, so my parents divorce
when I was five, my sister was three, and my
dad didn't want anything to do with us. After that.
A lot of it had to do with the fact
that we were living in Massachusetts. My mother purposely relocated
to Florida, so you know, distance wise, and he married
the woman he was having an affair with, So I
(07:00):
guess that kind of put you know, put it into
some perspective that you know, he chose them and his
new step daughter over me and my sister. So I
got into it because I saw my mom and I
saw what she went through, and she had a really
tough time. I remember, as a child and a young,
you know person, just seeing her really not recover from
the divorce in a very healthy way and go into
(07:23):
a lot of depression now and back. You know, when
I became older, I realized what it was. I thought
there's got to be a better way, you know, And
I was affected by that by not seeing my father.
So between that and it's really an very interesting practice.
It's not just about divorce. I mean, there's a lot
of complicated business issues and valuation can be very sophisticated.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Right, So.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Not every when somebody comes to you, everybody, the first
meeting that somebody usually has from you, they use the phrase,
I'm thinking about it and how do you engage how
far along the line they are in there process.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
I can usually gauge that pretty quickly. So if I
was statistically to look at, I think that women when
they come to see me are pretty much ready to
get divorced. Generally. Generally, they're getting information, they've kind of
made up their mind. Men are kind of feeling it
out more. What am I going to lose? How much
am I going to pay? What is it going to
cost me?
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Oh no, that's so sad, and uh BIG's the check?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Yeah, and they're concerned about that, you know, rightfully, So
I get it.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
You talked about the fifty to fifty earlier. Yeah, I know,
states differ. It's fifty to fifty of what you made
while you were married. So if you're a wealthy guy
and you got married and your wealth sort of stayed
the same, she doesn't get half of that, right or
does that depend on the state.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Well, first of all, if you're a wealthy person, not
just male, but female, you should have a prenup side note,
but but yeah, So basically, you look at the date
of the valuation, let's say, the marital estate before you
got married, and then you look at the date as
of the date of the filing of the divorce, and
you see what you had then and remained intact and
(09:08):
stayed separate and apart, and what you have now.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
And so she spent a bunch of your money and
it went down.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
That's it. It's gone, It's gone.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
How do you have that conversation, though? How do you
have the prenup conversation without? I mean, that's got to
be so awkward unless you're super rich, and then you're like,
my board is making me do this?
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Well, you know what, a lot of times, especially here
in South Florida, we have children of wealthy parents, trust children.
We have people that have already been through divorce that
have substantial wealth. They're smart, most of them. I have
to tell you that that I've had more prenups signings
(09:47):
in the last let's say, sixty days and I've had
in a long time. I'm getting them on a regular basis.
It's just smart. If you think about it, if fifty
percent of the people get divorced, I don't know, kind
of have to figure that out. Yeah, and why wouldn't you?
And I hear a lot of younger people getting prenups.
They just want to tie that part up and not
have to worry about it.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
You focus mainly on women, Not.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Really, I focus on women for my life coaching, right well,
for both male and female. As a divorce lawyer, what.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
How is the process other than what you said? And
they come to you and they're not quite sure, but
the breakup, you know, take the infidelity out of it.
Take it we just grew apart out of it. Do
you try and get into the why you're getting divorced?
And try and said or you're just like, okay, you
want to get divorced and I'm going to How much
of you are you blending life coaching with divorce? Well?
Speaker 2 (10:43):
I blend it, but I think any good divorce attorney
first question is is your marriage irritatedly broken? Because that's
one of the criteria for getting divorced, and if you
can save the marriage, Like I have a case right
now where he doesn't want to be divorced, but the
wife has some severe substance abuse issues. He'd rather her
get help, but this has been ongoing for years and
(11:03):
as we know, we can't force people into treatment. So
he's made a decision to get divorced. Would he prefer
not of course. So when I spoke to him, it
was all about what have you tried? Have you tried
to get her in therapy? And how have you tried that? First?
Because he doesn't want this, we tried a few more things,
gave him some advice, and now we had to file.
(11:24):
That's a first question. But from there the life coaching
for me, it is just part of what I already
did because I truly care about my clients and I
want them to get to a better place. But like anything,
it's a cost benefit. Sometimes you can stay and work
things out, and if you can, I encourage that and
maybe open their their thoughts to some of the ideas
(11:46):
to keep the marriage together that maybe they didn't consider,
like a post nuptial agreement, like maybe we have financial
issues the wife is spending too much, or the husband's eeropsychloboge.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
You know you can take on this, let's stay together,
but you can I don't want to be responsible for
this dad if it gets out of hand.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Right, And that can work in some cases, you know
where now they've resolved that and they can really focus
in on other issues in their relationship.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
So is custody easier to work out than the money.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
It depends. Most of the cases that I deal with,
I would say that the parties pretty much have the
best interests of the children in line, and they're able
to work it out. It's a little you know here
and there, but they work through it. Other cases not
so much. And I can kind of identify those clients
that have an agenda with the children really far away.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Okay, you don't want to use the children as absolutely
as a weapon. Way. I'm always surprised at how often
women or a man they hate each other and think
they are the devil, and then they're like, oh, but
he's a good father. Oh sure, and they really can compartmentalize,
which is shocking to me. Or they're like, we made
(12:53):
this child together who we both love and we share
this and I see the good things in the child.
But they're they're really able to the compartment which is amazing.
Props to them.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
It's good for them. I mean my ex husband Sam,
who's also a lawyer but doesn't touch family law. He
does medical mail practice and PI stuff him and I
I would consider him one of my best friends. Like literally,
I could call him at three in the morning.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I need him.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
He's there for me same here, we just the kids.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Wherever do you handle your own divorce?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Is not because you have a fool for a client, right.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
O.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
No, I had somebody else handle it. But at the
end we really put our client, our lawyers aside, and
we went to mediation ourselves and we banged it out
in eight hours and we went to dinner.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
How often does somebody either change their mind on the money, like,
oh my god, I can't I sign that and I
want to go back and do it again, or you
know what, I realized I still love him. Can we
can we get this back together? That's not your problem.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
No, No, I've had the I call my annuities. I've
had that happened. But most of the time, when we
get through the process, the legal system is still you know,
it's got a lot of problems. So just no matter
how amicable, you have to do, certain things in the
legal process that kind of push people further apart, and
it's changing slowly, but by the end they usually don't
(14:17):
really consider reconciliation. But I have had a few.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yeah, So we talked about that on a podcast couple
of years ago. That boyfriend and girlfriends break up and
they get back together all the time, but rarely and
people are like, once the legal gets involved, it's.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
A it changes everything.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
It does. It changes the tone and how you see them.
When somebody gets divorced, how do they understand the process
of it or how much of it? Like you have
to teach them here are the steps, and here's what's
going to work. And it's not just you know, we
sit in a room and here's how we find the money,
(14:53):
and here's how we realize who gets what and whatever.
It's complicated. You're earning your money on this.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
It's complicated. I call it the Ian one of divorce.
You know, they need an education, not to a level
of knowing it like I do, but they certainly need
to make educated decisions. And I look to them for
the answers. Here's your option, we can do this. Here's
how much it's going to cost you. What's the cost
benefit here? You know, if you have a man who
(15:19):
let's not say man, if you have someone who's going
to pay support and you're talking a five hundred dollars
a difference month, and we're gonna fight that. I do
the actual math with them, and I'll sit with them
and say we're fighting this. Could we look at this
like how much it's going to cost you in litigation
and time and trial, and you know, let's see if
we can come to a compromise here.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
And you must run into man or woman again not
to stereotype somebody who has not worked in twenty years
or more and maybe the assets were nothing and suddenly
they're like, oh my god, I'm fifty four years old
and I got to find a job.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah. That happens a lot scary a lot of traditional
marriages here.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Yeah, you know that.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
I that in our community where we live here in Boca,
and you know it's changing. But I always said, listen,
if you get married young or whenever you get married,
and you're going to give up your career, you got
to think about that because the courts are not awarding
support alimony like they used to years ago, and they
are expecting you, whether you're fifty four or sixty to work.
(16:23):
They're going to impute income to you. Yeah, and you
gave up your career, and you got to take that
into consideration.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Yeah, if somebody gave up their career to raise the kids,
take care of the house. He was a doctor, had
a gambling problem. He lost it all and now we're divorced,
and then he can continue working. Sure is that factor in?
And then it's like, well, she gave it up, so
until she can get up to a certain point, he
(16:51):
still has to pay.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Absolutely that matters. And it looks at you look at
the standard of living. You look at what is considered
a need versus extras. You know, somebody has a clothing
habit every month of ten grand. That's probably not a need, right,
but there is some allowance for clothing. Let's just say
as an example. And then they're going to say, what
is her capacity for work? And let's say, and I'm
saying he, it's he, shey because women pay alimony as well.
(17:14):
I have it both ways. But she can work and
she can make X amount of dollars. We have experts
that come in and actually do an evaluation and it's
called a vocational exam, and they will basically impute income
to the under earning spouse and offset the alimony need,
and then the difference is paid by the one that
can pay based on his or her ability.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Most alimony stops when she remarries.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yes, that would be considered what they call permanent alimony.
You know, long term alimony and generally or if they're
in support of financial relationship, that changed, right, you know,
So now if you're living with somebody and you're you know,
you don't have as many expenses, you're being you know,
either directly or indirectly provided support.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
You can can he make the case like listen, she
loves him and they're just not marrying because they want me.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
To pay right, Well, you could rate, you could, yeah, yeah,
but we get really dig you know, you start digging
deep into finances and subpoenaing records and figuring it out.
So you know, I understand that it seems fair. You know,
it seems fair.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
All right, We got to take a quick break because
we need to take care of our finances, but we
will be back on them here with Duran Yaff and
we're talking about all things love and divorce right after this,
and we are back our second marriage. Second divorce is easier.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
I think, so is it?
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Is it because they've been through it or so it's
you do get.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Better at Remember we started talking about the unknown. Right
now they know and so they're more That's maybe why
the divorce rate for second time marriages is higher. I
don't know, but but.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
They because the fantasy of the fifth ever after is gone,
I think, so.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
I think there's more realistic. They're just a wiser, you know,
as we all get in our age.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
But and I went through it and I survived it,
which is a big part of recidivism if you're talking
about criminal Actually they did the time, and they survived
and they got out. So they're like part of the
scariness of oh my god, I went to jail for
five years is gone. Yeah, yeah, you know, and so
part of the you know, people look at whether it's dating,
a relationship is a game of musical chair chairs and
they don't want to get stuck without a seat. So
(19:28):
a lot of times people would rather stay in a
bad relationship than no relationship. If they got divorced and
then got remarried again, a third time is not nearly
as far fetched as a second time was to them, absolutely,
you know. And how is it changing that the women
are paying more alimony and child support than they used to.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
I think that certainly they're better earners now than they
were many years ago. So that's all factored into it
when you look at support, either child support or alimonies.
So you know, I have cases where women are the breadwinners,
and I think with the younger generation even more so.
You know, there's automen that stay home and take on
that responsibility and that's okay, it's good.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
You know, how often do you run into how did
you ever marry this person?
Speaker 2 (20:18):
But you know what, it's that expression elephants don't marry
giraffes or giraffes don't marry. You always wonder, like you
see this other person on the other side and you're like, oh, okay,
this is really not a good person. How did you
even get there?
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Right?
Speaker 2 (20:31):
But then you start to uncover things about your client,
You're like, oh, I see how you guys connected. But sometimes, yeah,
I had I had a really sad case where he
was absolutely a para what do they call it?
Speaker 1 (20:43):
A liar?
Speaker 2 (20:45):
You pathological liar diagnosed one hundred percent could fool anybody.
And that was a really sad case because she happened
to be one of the most amazing women I've ever met,
came from a great family. But he was able to
convince her of things that you know, others couldn't and
he was good at it. But other than that, I think,
you know, what people generally are just good relationships.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Just I think if you walk down the aisle, you
are hoping for the best. I think the men are
a lot of times the women. He you know, he's
be a good parent, could provide her get all these
kinds of things, all the stereotypical things. It's still she
dreams of the house, the dog, the white pick offense.
He's not even in that list. But well, I think
when he enters into it, which is why. You know,
(21:26):
some very very wealthy men who have written very big
checks for divorce, you see, get married for the fifth
or sixth time.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
I love.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
I think they do. I think they are hoping in
the moment or they're like, if I marry her, she
won't leave me. There's something about like, oh I'm gonna
lock her down, and they don't. They don't learn their
lesson after all that time.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Yeah, you know, we all are just in this world
trying to love. Yeah, I think, and we all want that.
That's one of the higher needs you know that we
all have.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Yeah, And even when somebody goes through something incredibly painful
and they have been arguing every Tuesday in court for
three years or whatever, there's a part of them, and
that's part of your job, and that's part of our job,
and that sort of society's job is to flame that
hope again and have them because once they can see
there's a possibility of all right, once I get through this,
(22:17):
or once I stop thinking about this or the anger
or the sadness subsides, I can start new again. And
there's still time to do that. That's look.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
I have people getting prenuptials that are in their eighties.
They found love again, they found companionship, right, and they
want to make sure that their estates are secure for
their family. So they're going to have their trust all
in place and all this. They just want to be
together and it's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Can you if somebody dies without a will here, that's different.
Every state's different, Every state's different. Yeah, And can they leave?
Can somebody leave their estate to a dog in this state?
Speaker 2 (22:57):
And that's not you know, that's above my.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Pag No, that's not what I mean. Certain states, it's like, yeah,
the dog has a budget, and it's eighty percent of.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
The will dog custody cases. Do you but dogs are
considered chattel property from the old days, right, Yeah, so
I mean, we've had drawn out fights about who gets
a dog. And the bottom line is you can't have
a visitation schedule. You can agree to it separately, but
you can't have The courts won't order that.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
They won't. They won't be like you get the dogs
on weekends.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
There's case all right on point one person gets a dog,
it's considered property and that's it. I know, I know,
I know that'll change because we all love our for friends.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Well, I mean, you know, fifty years ago, until the fifties,
dogs were not in the house. Right, This is a
fairly new development, and a lot of countries are like that.
They're working animals and they're out and their true thousand
horses or whatever. And somewhere time after World War Two,
we decided to let the dog in the house. And
then the dog got in the bed, and the dog
was a child, and then he took over. I mean
(23:57):
he takes over. But yeah, I didn't think about it.
I didn't think about that dog or cat custody.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, I've had a prenup in which
that was going to be. That was one of the issues.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
I get the dog, that's got to be tough. And
then do they do they work out visitation or is
that separate in the courts? Just like whatever you want
to figure out, figure out they ken.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
It's just that if you can't agree, the court's going
to give the dog to one person.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Is it. I've asked some people this who have gotten
divorced because somebody had an affair with somebody else. Yeah,
And I always wondered, is it better if twenty years
later they're still with that person because on some levels,
like well, I guess it worked out for them, or
the pairs of people always were rooting for it to
(24:43):
not work out.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
No, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
I think that would make it easier, while like, oh,
I guess that they were better together than we were.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Have I had those cases of course? And you know
what I mean. Look, I mean unfortunately people aren't faithful
from time to time. I have to tell you it's
not what I see is one of the maze major causes.
It's really more about financials and a lot about just
really communication. I know it sounds so cliche, right, but
(25:11):
really just not growing together. They're just growing separately, and
so you have to work at it right. You have
to really work at your marriage right.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
They got lazy. They went from husband wife to mom
and dad, and then they grew apart, and.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Then you get comfortable. And you know, I say, sometimes
people spend more time on their financials like writing checks
or now we do it online, than they do on
really working on the relationship every month, and you got
to work at it.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Is there a huge rise in divorces when the youngest
kid turns seventeen. That's a real thing.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
That's a real thing because a lot of people have
a perception that it's better to stay together even though
it's bad until the children leave.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
I have my own personal opinion on that. I'm not
a therapist. I'm not into that line of work, but
I just think it's a horrible example.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
You were very very young when your parents got divorced.
You could you remember that? Oh?
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Is there an age where I guess every age is tough.
They're old enough to understand but not quite old enough
to process it. There's that's a pretty big window. What
do you remember about it?
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Just I remember he took my sister and I out
to lunch with her, and I thought, you know, here,
I am like probably four or five, at almost five
at the time, and I thought, why am I with
this lady? It felt weird to me, It felt not
right right. A child other than that don't have a
lot of memory of it, right, but I do remember
it being something was wrong.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Can you work that out in court? Can she say
I don't he can have visitation or partial custody but
not around her.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
The answer is yes and no.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Right he's kept doing force. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
So the courts in Florida very hitch's the word liberal,
but they're very understanding that both parents get to have
our due process, constitutional right to have our children and
to parent them as we see appropriate. And if you
chose to have a child with this person, then they
get to make some decision on who they're going to
expose a child to. So the courts are really reluctant
(27:12):
to say no girlfriend or boyfriend around the child unless
there's some best interest, like the person is using drugs
or just really not a good person. But generally they
they you know, they don't go there. I had a
lady today, She's like, well, I don't want him to
have the child because he has only one bedroom and
(27:33):
he he this is a divorce, you know, like a
year later and he has a new girlfriend. The daughter
is eight from the relationship, and the new girlfriend has
a child who's six, and like, where are they going
to sleep? And all that. I'm like, listen, the courts
are going to say, he's going to figure it out. Yeah,
you know, they're six and eight?
Speaker 1 (27:51):
So does tie go to the mother?
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Does what a tie?
Speaker 1 (27:55):
It's like in baseball? The tie goes to the runner?
Does a tie go to the mother? I don't believe. Okay,
if it's no, I want the no.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Nh uh. That was called the tender year doctrines. That
was way when I first started. Primarily moms got children
because they presumed that up through the age. I believe
it was too that the mothers were necessary to care
and feed and do all the thing's caretaking. That was abolished.
That's gone. It's really many men get more time sharing
than women.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
They do. Yeah, I know, but I thought it was
always tough that the court was going to be like that.
The woman has a lot more wiggle room behaviorally than
the man, would you know.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
I think that is kind of a transception, is because
it really is a caretaker who's been the primary caretaker
and if the mother has been which typically in many cases,
is the case, then they will, you know, but it's Look,
there's no presumption in Florida fifty to fifty time sharing.
That's that's a policy here. That's not something we do.
But do the courts look at them? Sure they do
(29:01):
in their own minds.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Well, what did two people do if they're just like,
he's the worst father, she's the worst mother. Yeah, nobody's gonna.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Cave prove it. You got to prove it to the
court because it's best interest. And it's not easy because
most of these best interest issues of bad dad bad
mom are done in the privacy of your home.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Yeah, you know, can the court rule fifty to fifty
or so? The court can? Yes, What if somebody is well,
which again we're in South Florida, sure wealthy, they want
the custody, But the custody for them means their nanny
is going to do their half of the raising.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Is that That's a good question. You know. I always
say that if dad's let's just say it's dad, right,
and dad's around, and he has somebody that's going to
help with the caretaking as long as he's around, and
you know, he's not every night somewhere else, why not.
You know, the courts are going to permit that an
extra set of hair hands. It takes a village, right.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Is it a myth that the divorces went up from COVID.
I don't know if Florida wasn't quite locked down.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Yeah, you know what. I tried to figure that out,
and I couldn't find stats that conclusively told me that.
I didn't see any change. I mean, I saw some
change in postponed filings.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Right, it might have been an illusion that afterwards because
the courts were so backed up and they still are right,
and so it looked like a spike.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Did you were able to do it the whole time?
They do it online here?
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Yeah, so you know, some out of something bad something good. Right,
So we in our office always had zoom because I
found that clients run in privacy. I had one lady
get in the elevator, wants to come to my office.
Guess who was in the elevator her husband, oh man,
and couldn't explain it at all. Why was she there?
She was a stay at home mom and house maker
and all that.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
And why was he there? Well, he was.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Visiting somebody at one of the offices.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
And so she had no she had no.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Idea, and I thought, oh, this isn't good. So we
got zoom in place. But the courts now do most
of the hearings non evidentiary hearings and smaller hearings by zoom.
Great for clients, yeah, not always good for Like I
had a five day trial. You can't do that by zoom.
I mean, is it possible, yes, but it's going to
add another three days onto. How do you show somebody
(31:18):
a document? You know? How do you It's really challenging.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
And they're not jury trials, right, they're just the judge,
just the judge. How often so a woman comes to
you or a man and they say, I'm thinking about
getting divorced, do you try and tell them how to
sock some money away for the divorce process because some
people don't like some people don't have access to Like
(31:42):
you brought up the woman with sneaking the meeting, Well,
it's tough to sneak the bill the retainer, it is.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Yeah, So listen, everybody out there, have your own money,
have your own resources, just in case you never know.
And I could get into a whole topic on that one.
But because I have three girls, you know some always
telling them to make sure you're your own person, which
I learned from my mother.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Right.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
But the answer is, yeah, someday you need your your
your funds, you know, and we we try to. We're
not like some lawyers are like, Hey, the retainer's ten grand,
and that's what it is. And no, it's not a
one size fits all because I may be able to
do the divorce and be more flexible or have different arrangements.
It depends.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
So but you must charge more if it's a wealthy couple, right, No,
but you have.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
More resources available, right, so all the buildings the same,
it is. Yeah, it's just you're going to probably have
some more complicated issues, maybe with valuation problems.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
And that'll rack up the hours. Absolutely okay, But how
do you what do you do if you're the woman
and she hasn't had her own resources. It's you know,
old school traditional marriage. Are you like, I don't get
this on the back end?
Speaker 2 (32:49):
No, No, I don't personally do that, and I don't
know many good family lawyers that do, or board certified lawyers.
But it's not an injury attorney, no, exactly. You can't
in some cases for like collection of rearg and support.
We can do that. I don't personally do it, but
some lawyers do and that's permitted. But you will get
to a temporary relief hearing and you will ask the
court to impose attorney's fees and costs and you know,
(33:12):
based on need and ability. So you just have you
have to jump through like about probably sixty ninety days
of work.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Are people pretty good with making the payments they're supposed
to make or does that depend on the state they.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Are with my firm?
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Okay, certain states are tougher too, certain states. Some it's
criminal and some are civil. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
I mean here the judges understand what it takes to
get a case through and they understand the issues. And
if it's complicating, you need experts involved. I mean some
cases you got you know, valuation cases where you have
a lot of businesses and you got to bring an
expert in. It's like doing a value for any purpose.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Yeah. What does somebody do who they own a business together? Yeah,
it happens there.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
One person is going to get it if you go
to trial. Now, some cases they have agreements to work together.
I have one couple they are in business together post
divorce and they chose to be in business because they
are amazing business partners together.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Or yeah, and then maybe if the business fell apart,
then neither neither one's going to get any money. Yes,
So yeah, that makes sense too, have.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
An interest, right?
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Huh? What the most common? Is there a length of
time of marriage that it's kids aside and we brought
that they turned seventeen? Is it the three to five
year part where most divorces happened or is it quicker
or longer?
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Longer?
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (34:31):
From my experience, so I think it's somewhere around the
seven year seven years.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
That's a real pay No, it's.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
A real thing, you know, because you're still on the
honeymoon stage right right, and you start settling into more
complacency after a period of time. So yeah, you know
seven plus. I have a lot of long term marriages too,
which is anything over eighteen years?
Speaker 1 (34:51):
What's the longest marriage? Can you say? You can say
over fifty years?
Speaker 2 (34:55):
They were married.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
I had met and she wanted to go back out,
and he was doubt is that?
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Let me tell you. I had one lady come to
me and this is a recent case, and she's in
her eighties and she said, I am not going to
die married to him?
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (35:09):
And you know what, she has a right, she has right.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
And sometimes that's you know, the energy levels, the health levels.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
And remember in Florida, you get fifty percent if you
get through a divorce, right, you get fifty percent generally
from the assets. Right, it's like a net worst statement.
Divide it in half. You get thirty percent if the
person if as an estate through probate, so thirty versus fifty.
Sometimes they get divorced because they want that higher percentage.
(35:39):
How they can do what they want with it. Right,
There's a lot of times there's issues with older children.
They align with one parent over the.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Other over fifty. When they over thirty years and they
get divorced, it's generally more amicable or is It's hard
to say.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
It's hard to say. It's the same.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
What's the quickest you've dealt with divorced? Like they get
married on Friday and they're in there on Monday.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
That's called an annulment. And hopefully they didn't have relationships.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Well, can you get an old? Can you get an
old for no reason? No?
Speaker 2 (36:09):
It has to be based on like fraud.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
What if like we we had never lived together, before
we got married, honeymoon, we moved together. I can't believe
he puts his socks on the floor. I can not
deal with this.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
You're gonna have it.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Yeah, you had an under thirty days and like, this
isn't working.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
I have had a few like that, but they're rare.
They're rare.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
So it's the sweet spot. It's the seven years.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Yeah, seven years plus seven to like eighteen. When they
come to me after like twenty plus years, I'm like,
really really, you know, so I really try to make
sure that this is what they really need to do,
want to do, should do.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Uh how often are you like, oh my god, I'm
on the other person's side. But this is my job
as a lawyer. Like you're a terrible wife or your
terrible husband, But I got to do my job. But
oh man, you know.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
I don't take every case that comes to the door
because I've had people that have agendas and I can
pretty much spot that so or personalities that don't match
with mine. You know, because I'm gonna be a straight
shooter and I'm going to tell you the way it is.
I'm not going to just do it to get paid.
I'm going to tell you listen, you gotta clean that,
you know up, because that personality isn't going to do
(37:20):
well for me, for you or for your case. So
I try to get a little control there, client control.
And then sometimes it doesn't work out and we're just
not a good match.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Or you're like, of course he's going to divorce you
or I like that and I'm like, okay, I get this, yeah,
or it's like oh yeah, I see what you were doing.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Oh boy, I've had those.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Yeah. I mean every you know, divorced woman thinks she
happened to marry a narcissist, right, you know that's statistically
it's like, oh my god, there's such bad luck for everybody.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
You know what that's that that that term is used
so often here I think.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Over you it is statistically it's like two percent of
people are clinical narcissists. And I'm like, maybe maybe he
just didn't like or maybe it's just a jerk, or
it's how how often are the guys like, you know what,
she really just wanted money, She really did just want
my money? And is the courts like too bad? Like
you didn't realize that it's too bad? Right?
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Orts are too bad? It's really it's a mathematical calculation, right,
what are the assets at that data marriage data filing?
Speaker 1 (38:20):
That's it divided. She not quite married you under false pretenses,
but they love you. The I love yous were probably
not as binding as you thought they were.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Look, and we have a lot of second high marriages
where the older person is marrying some of the younger
and you know, typically the and the writings on the wall.
I mean not every case, right, but very often, you know,
but love comes in different forms, and maybe being taken
care of and protected and knowing you're financially secure is
(38:51):
valuable and has.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
You know, that's starting to change more too. There's more
women in that situation, absolutely, more sugar mamas than they're
used to. Yeah, yes, especially down here where she has
her late husband ex husband's money and then she's like,
I'm gonna have fun with the young guy and then
he had spent two years and then that's it. I know,
what is the thing that people be surprised to learn
(39:14):
about getting divorced, the process of it, or.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Surprised about it. It's really not that complicated, really, yeah,
if you can, And that's why being a life coach
too is a helpful. I think asset for my clients,
but if they don't use me for life coaching and
they have a therapist. Look, there's the emotions of divorce,
and it really needs to be separate and apart from
the divorce and your lawyer. But the divorce itself pretty simple.
(39:41):
It's not challenging. It's all those emotions. So the biggest on,
the biggest myth is it's really not that bad. I
know you feel it is when you're in it, right,
but the process itself not overly complicated.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
The process has been honed over time by the courts
and lots of lawyers. I was in a Why is
there such a plethora of injury attorney advertising? I don't know,
was there a law change or something that it's every
billboard because there used to be in the morning. I mean, well,
there used to be liquor. There used to be a
(40:18):
ban on liquor advertising on television. And then I went
away and we see more of it. So nothing changed,
and suddenly everybody's a injury. I mean I went through that.
I was in a car accident a couple of years ago.
I broke thirteen ribs and a lot of other things.
Ribs are nebulous. They hurt a lot, but they're recoverable.
So they said, right, there's no damage, there's no surgery.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
There's no ultimate right, and it's tough to.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Wrap up the bills on it. And so it's one
of those things. So the lawyers like, by the time
we get to court on this, you're going to be fine.
You know, it's hard to describe how much it hurt.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
That's that's what my ex husband does. And you'll have
a horrific accident, you know, and I'm sure it was
extremely painful and lost wages and time and all that.
But if you can recover physically, yeah, and you don't
have the damages, the permanent damage, right from what I know.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
That's not my expertise, you know, because I know. So
it's like, by the time if you heal, people are like, oh, yeah,
broken ribs, terrible, it sucks. I'm like, I had thirteen
of them. They're like, yeah, you're fine now. So I
had we had to settle it long before we went
to cortcause the longer we waited, the or healed. I
was I know, thank god, I know, thank god, it
(41:30):
was a good thing. But I was surprised at how
well this was worth this, and this is worth this,
and then there's pain and suffering, and here's the insurance,
and here's what they were. It was very, very like
people had gone through this a million times.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Yeah, all right, this is your first time on the podcast.
We play something with our guests called worst date or
first date. So you have to you have to think
back to your swinging single days. Give me either the
worst date you've ever had or the best first date
you've ever had.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Your choice first estate, Yes, our best first day.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
Either the best first date or a terrible date of
any number.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
First Okay, and I can see him from where I'm
sitting right now.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
Oh good.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
My husband, my current husband, we met on July third,
twelve years ago, and we met for lunch and at
the mall here and I got out, you know, of
work at the time, and we spent the entire I
canceled my entire day and the next day, that was
on a Friday, July third, and I saw him the
(42:30):
next day and I got married in four months.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Fireworks.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Yeah, wow, amazing chemistry, just like safety chemistry. I can't
even explain.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
How long had you? How long were you single.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
Oh, a couple of years, A couple of years. Yeah,
and I had dated you know that here and there,
but I wasn't. I was never really a dating type.
I am busy, I you know so, and I have
three young children.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
Right.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Yeah, so you.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Married fireworks state fireworks the next night. Yeah, four months later.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
Yeah, good for you. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Can I ask where you met?
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Yeah? We met at the Grand Lux the restaurant. Yeah,
at the mall. Which mall is that in town center?
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Oh? Yeah? Right here in Boca Raton there it all
goes down here.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
I'm there and uh yeah, so good for you.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Yeah, all right, where can everybody find you if they
need a lawyer? Or listen to your podcast?
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Okay, so it's your divorce, your amazing divorce. And then
my email dress is Dorin Yaffa and the last name
is spelled Yaffa at Yaffa Family Lawgroup dot com and
five six one two seven six three eighty zero.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Good job. This was fun. I've never been married or divorced,
but now I'm not so scared of either.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Okay, just remember prenup.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Noted see that to me, it would be hard. I'm like,
I just slip it across the table at Grandlox on
the first day.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
It's okay. It's not for everybody.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
It's not for everybody, but you're right, I can logistically
at least you have something. The worst thing is like
you don't have anything like prenup Like sure.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
True?
Speaker 1 (44:00):
All right, As far as us like share, follow, please
review not just your amazing divorce but our podcast to
Your reviews mean a lot in the podcasting ecosystem. Shoot
us an email, Great Loove Debate at gmail dot COMFG
any questions, comments, thoughts, or divorce horror stories. We might
do a whole episode on that because, as always at
the Great Love Debate, we never stopped making love. See
you next time. The Great Love Debate. It's the Great
(44:28):
Love Debate, the Great Love Debate. It's a Great Love Debate.
This is Pod Popular podcast for the people, the Great
Love Debate. It's the Great Love Debate, the Great Love Debate.
It's a Great Love Debate. Hi again everyone, It's Brian Howie.
Welcome to The Great Love Debate, the world's number one
(00:23):
Dating in a Relationship podcast since twenty fifteen. I'm here
in the fine studios of Pod Popular in Boca Raton, Florida.
It's very very nice here, and over the last I
don't know years, so we've done quite a few shows
about the end of relationships. And we're not doing that
(00:43):
to try and put a down around things. We are
in the love business here. We're selling hope around here.
But sometimes the best way to get into a good
relationship is to get out of a bad relationship. And
we've had authors on here, and we have had broken
hearted people on here, and we've had therapists on here.
And I've got somebody I've tried to get in here
for a couple of months now. I finally got her
(01:05):
busy schedule to sync with mine. She's the host of
Your Amazing Divorce podcast. She's been a marriage, family lawyer,
life coach, helping out the ladies maybe even the men.
For many, many years, and she's going to answer a
lot of my questions, which I know are a lot
of your questions, because you guys have been emailing me
(01:25):
this about for a long time during yaffa. How are you?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I'm great?
Speaker 1 (01:29):
How are you?
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Thank you for having me?
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Are there too many divorces or not enough?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Oh, that's a good question. I don't know. I guess
it's just about right.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
It's right about Maybe it's not the right ones.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
You know, things just kind of happen in relationships. People
just grow apart.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
So yeah, I think so. We talked about this on
a prior podcast where you know the old stat that
half of marriages and in divorce, But there's a big
chunk that stay together unhappily. And there's a bunch of
reasons for that, kids, money or whatever. But a lot
of people stay into it because they just don't either
know how or they're afraid of the process.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Of divorce, absolutely one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
And what are they afraid of? Are they afraid the
legal paperwork? They're afraid that it's going to be a mistake.
Are they afraid that they don't know where to turn?
The cost? Why? Why do all of it?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
I think that people generally when they're in an unhappy relationship,
on a happy marriage, they they're afraid of the unknown,
you know. The people tend to stay in relationships because
they know what they're getting, even though it's bad.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
The devil, you know.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Oh yeah, And so you know, just as the humans
that we are, we're just most of us are not
looking for change. We might want change, but getting there
is difficult, and especially when you're in a bad relationship.
So it's a cost, it's the kids, it's you know,
what am I going to do? I'm going to lose
(02:52):
half of everything. So and the fear of the legal
process itself is always, you know, something that's of great concern.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
How often you run across I get that the two
biggest issues traditionally in divorce are money and custody. Sure,
how often is it that one just doesn't want to
get divorced? The emotion? How much of it is just
they're not on the same page?
Speaker 2 (03:14):
I think most of the time, you know. You know,
I've been practicing now in Florida for twenty eight years,
and I've seen a great evolution in the law and
because of the legal standard that as lawyers were basically
governed by it's pretty simple, it's not complicated. You know,
there's an equitable distribution, there's asset division, presumption of fifty
(03:38):
to fifty not so challenging to figure out.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Maybe they have issues as to the value of a
business or the value of a real state or something,
but easy. You have custody issues, which nowadays most of
the parents work out. It's primarily they just don't want
to get divorced. Basically, maybe one party doesn't or again
they're in the process, but they're just fearful, and so
(04:03):
everyone's in this emotional state that they're just kind of
stuck in. I think as lawyers it's our responsibility to
help nudge them in that direction and let them know
it's going to be okay, we're going to get through this.
You're going to get to the better side of your life,
and you will.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
And that's a big part of it, understanding when they
get through this storm that there's new opportunities in bright
sunny skies or whatever. But in the heat of the
emotion and whatever the reasons are for people getting divorced,
it's never a good thing that something has to end
that you at some point had high hopes.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
For absolutely, you know, but they do get there. And
I have to tell you, in my twenty eight years
of doing this, I can maybe name on one hand
how many people went through the divorce process and ended
up being in a worse position. Very few, if I
was to statistically look at it, I am sure most
(04:57):
got to a better place.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
And most, like I wish they did this years ago.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, and you know it just because your family is
ending in the traditional sense, it's still a family if
you have children together, right, and so you know, many
people see it as a failure. I tend to see
it or help people to see it's the beginning of
some different relationship that you're going to have with your
ex and that can be a beautiful thing. I mean,
(05:20):
I'm a prime example of that.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
We were in the state of Florida as we record this,
and you practice in Florida. Florida is easier than some
other states. Some other states is like a long cooling off,
like I think Maryland is like that, where like you
can't do anything for a year.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, I'm not sure, but I know that we are
one of the easier states, and there are requirements like
here you have to be a resident for six months
before you can get divorced. But there's no like if
after you fulfill the residency requirement, you can get divorced.
One party can want the divorce, the other doesn't need
to want it. It's still going to happen, and there's
(05:55):
no cooling off period. There's steps to get through it,
but it's not like you have to wait and consider
things and take you know, an abatement. No, it's not
like that now.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
I asked a big network TV exec one time, I go,
how come there's not shows about divorce lawyers? And he said,
I go, there's a lot of legal shows, but very
rarely as one devoted to it, to a divorce law,
family law practice. And he goes, it hits too close
to home and people don't want to watch it. But
(06:26):
you've dove it into this, you're passionate about it. Yeah,
and you spin it on your podcast in real life
as I am doing something that's going to help people's lives,
How did you get interested in this aspect of law.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
I came from a divorce family, so my parents divorce
when I was five, my sister was three, and my
dad didn't want anything to do with us. After that.
A lot of it had to do with the fact
that we were living in Massachusetts. My mother purposely relocated
to Florida, so you know, distance wise, and he married
the woman he was having an affair with, So I
(07:00):
guess that kind of put you know, put it into
some perspective that you know, he chose them and his
new step daughter over me and my sister. So I
got into it because I saw my mom and I
saw what she went through, and she had a really
tough time. I remember, as a child and a young,
you know person, just seeing her really not recover from
the divorce in a very healthy way and go into
(07:23):
a lot of depression now and back. You know, when
I became older, I realized what it was. I thought
there's got to be a better way, you know, And
I was affected by that by not seeing my father.
So between that and it's really an very interesting practice.
It's not just about divorce. I mean, there's a lot
of complicated business issues and valuation can be very sophisticated.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Right, So.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Not every when somebody comes to you, everybody, the first
meeting that somebody usually has from you, they use the phrase,
I'm thinking about it and how do you engage how
far along the line they are in there process.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
I can usually gauge that pretty quickly. So if I
was statistically to look at, I think that women when
they come to see me are pretty much ready to
get divorced. Generally. Generally, they're getting information, they've kind of
made up their mind. Men are kind of feeling it
out more. What am I going to lose? How much
am I going to pay? What is it going to
cost me?
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Oh no, that's so sad, and uh BIG's the check?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Yeah, and they're concerned about that, you know, rightfully, So
I get it.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
You talked about the fifty to fifty earlier. Yeah, I know,
states differ. It's fifty to fifty of what you made
while you were married. So if you're a wealthy guy
and you got married and your wealth sort of stayed
the same, she doesn't get half of that, right or
does that depend on the state.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Well, first of all, if you're a wealthy person, not
just male, but female, you should have a prenup side note,
but but yeah, So basically, you look at the date
of the valuation, let's say, the marital estate before you
got married, and then you look at the date as
of the date of the filing of the divorce, and
you see what you had then and remained intact and
(09:08):
stayed separate and apart, and what you have now.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
And so she spent a bunch of your money and
it went down.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
That's it. It's gone, It's gone.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
How do you have that conversation, though? How do you
have the prenup conversation without? I mean, that's got to
be so awkward unless you're super rich, and then you're like,
my board is making me do this?
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Well, you know what, a lot of times, especially here
in South Florida, we have children of wealthy parents, trust children.
We have people that have already been through divorce that
have substantial wealth. They're smart, most of them. I have
to tell you that that I've had more prenups signings
(09:47):
in the last let's say, sixty days and I've had
in a long time. I'm getting them on a regular basis.
It's just smart. If you think about it, if fifty
percent of the people get divorced, I don't know, kind
of have to figure that out. Yeah, and why wouldn't you?
And I hear a lot of younger people getting prenups.
They just want to tie that part up and not
have to worry about it.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
You focus mainly on women, Not.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Really, I focus on women for my life coaching, right well,
for both male and female. As a divorce lawyer, what.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
How is the process other than what you said? And
they come to you and they're not quite sure, but
the breakup, you know, take the infidelity out of it.
Take it we just grew apart out of it. Do
you try and get into the why you're getting divorced?
And try and said or you're just like, okay, you
want to get divorced and I'm going to How much
of you are you blending life coaching with divorce? Well?
Speaker 2 (10:43):
I blend it, but I think any good divorce attorney
first question is is your marriage irritatedly broken? Because that's
one of the criteria for getting divorced, and if you
can save the marriage, Like I have a case right
now where he doesn't want to be divorced, but the
wife has some severe substance abuse issues. He'd rather her
get help, but this has been ongoing for years and
(11:03):
as we know, we can't force people into treatment. So
he's made a decision to get divorced. Would he prefer
not of course. So when I spoke to him, it
was all about what have you tried? Have you tried
to get her in therapy? And how have you tried that? First?
Because he doesn't want this, we tried a few more things,
gave him some advice, and now we had to file.
(11:24):
That's a first question. But from there the life coaching
for me, it is just part of what I already
did because I truly care about my clients and I
want them to get to a better place. But like anything,
it's a cost benefit. Sometimes you can stay and work
things out, and if you can, I encourage that and
maybe open their their thoughts to some of the ideas
(11:46):
to keep the marriage together that maybe they didn't consider,
like a post nuptial agreement, like maybe we have financial
issues the wife is spending too much, or the husband's eeropsychloboge.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
You know you can take on this, let's stay together,
but you can I don't want to be responsible for
this dad if it gets out of hand.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Right, And that can work in some cases, you know
where now they've resolved that and they can really focus
in on other issues in their relationship.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
So is custody easier to work out than the money.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
It depends. Most of the cases that I deal with,
I would say that the parties pretty much have the
best interests of the children in line, and they're able
to work it out. It's a little you know here
and there, but they work through it. Other cases not
so much. And I can kind of identify those clients
that have an agenda with the children really far away.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Okay, you don't want to use the children as absolutely
as a weapon. Way. I'm always surprised at how often
women or a man they hate each other and think
they are the devil, and then they're like, oh, but
he's a good father. Oh sure, and they really can compartmentalize,
which is shocking to me. Or they're like, we made
(12:53):
this child together who we both love and we share
this and I see the good things in the child.
But they're they're really able to the compartment which is amazing.
Props to them.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
It's good for them. I mean my ex husband Sam,
who's also a lawyer but doesn't touch family law. He
does medical mail practice and PI stuff him and I
I would consider him one of my best friends. Like literally,
I could call him at three in the morning.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I need him.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
He's there for me same here, we just the kids.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Wherever do you handle your own divorce?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Is not because you have a fool for a client, right.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
O.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
No, I had somebody else handle it. But at the
end we really put our client, our lawyers aside, and
we went to mediation ourselves and we banged it out
in eight hours and we went to dinner.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
How often does somebody either change their mind on the money, like,
oh my god, I can't I sign that and I
want to go back and do it again, or you
know what, I realized I still love him. Can we
can we get this back together? That's not your problem.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
No, No, I've had the I call my annuities. I've
had that happened. But most of the time, when we
get through the process, the legal system is still you know,
it's got a lot of problems. So just no matter
how amicable, you have to do, certain things in the
legal process that kind of push people further apart, and
it's changing slowly, but by the end they usually don't
(14:17):
really consider reconciliation. But I have had a few.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yeah, So we talked about that on a podcast couple
of years ago. That boyfriend and girlfriends break up and
they get back together all the time, but rarely and
people are like, once the legal gets involved, it's.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
A it changes everything.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
It does. It changes the tone and how you see them.
When somebody gets divorced, how do they understand the process
of it or how much of it? Like you have
to teach them here are the steps, and here's what's
going to work. And it's not just you know, we
sit in a room and here's how we find the money,
(14:53):
and here's how we realize who gets what and whatever.
It's complicated. You're earning your money on this.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
It's complicated. I call it the Ian one of divorce.
You know, they need an education, not to a level
of knowing it like I do, but they certainly need
to make educated decisions. And I look to them for
the answers. Here's your option, we can do this. Here's
how much it's going to cost you. What's the cost
benefit here? You know, if you have a man who
(15:19):
let's not say man, if you have someone who's going
to pay support and you're talking a five hundred dollars
a difference month, and we're gonna fight that. I do
the actual math with them, and I'll sit with them
and say we're fighting this. Could we look at this
like how much it's going to cost you in litigation
and time and trial, and you know, let's see if
we can come to a compromise here.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
And you must run into man or woman again not
to stereotype somebody who has not worked in twenty years
or more and maybe the assets were nothing and suddenly
they're like, oh my god, I'm fifty four years old
and I got to find a job.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah. That happens a lot scary a lot of traditional
marriages here.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Yeah, you know that.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
I that in our community where we live here in Boca,
and you know it's changing. But I always said, listen,
if you get married young or whenever you get married,
and you're going to give up your career, you got
to think about that because the courts are not awarding
support alimony like they used to years ago, and they
are expecting you, whether you're fifty four or sixty to work.
(16:23):
They're going to impute income to you. Yeah, and you
gave up your career, and you got to take that
into consideration.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Yeah, if somebody gave up their career to raise the kids,
take care of the house. He was a doctor, had
a gambling problem. He lost it all and now we're divorced,
and then he can continue working. Sure is that factor in?
And then it's like, well, she gave it up, so
until she can get up to a certain point, he
(16:51):
still has to pay.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Absolutely that matters. And it looks at you look at
the standard of living. You look at what is considered
a need versus extras. You know, somebody has a clothing
habit every month of ten grand. That's probably not a need, right,
but there is some allowance for clothing. Let's just say
as an example. And then they're going to say, what
is her capacity for work? And let's say, and I'm
saying he, it's he, shey because women pay alimony as well.
(17:14):
I have it both ways. But she can work and
she can make X amount of dollars. We have experts
that come in and actually do an evaluation and it's
called a vocational exam, and they will basically impute income
to the under earning spouse and offset the alimony need,
and then the difference is paid by the one that
can pay based on his or her ability.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Most alimony stops when she remarries.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yes, that would be considered what they call permanent alimony.
You know, long term alimony and generally or if they're
in support of financial relationship, that changed, right, you know,
So now if you're living with somebody and you're you know,
you don't have as many expenses, you're being you know,
either directly or indirectly provided support.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
You can can he make the case like listen, she
loves him and they're just not marrying because they want me.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
To pay right, Well, you could rate, you could, yeah, yeah,
but we get really dig you know, you start digging
deep into finances and subpoenaing records and figuring it out.
So you know, I understand that it seems fair. You know,
it seems fair.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
All right, We got to take a quick break because
we need to take care of our finances, but we
will be back on them here with Duran Yaff and
we're talking about all things love and divorce right after this,
and we are back our second marriage. Second divorce is easier.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
I think, so is it?
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Is it because they've been through it or so it's
you do get.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Better at Remember we started talking about the unknown. Right
now they know and so they're more That's maybe why
the divorce rate for second time marriages is higher. I
don't know, but but.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
They because the fantasy of the fifth ever after is gone,
I think, so.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
I think there's more realistic. They're just a wiser, you know,
as we all get in our age.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
But and I went through it and I survived it,
which is a big part of recidivism if you're talking
about criminal Actually they did the time, and they survived
and they got out. So they're like part of the
scariness of oh my god, I went to jail for
five years is gone. Yeah, yeah, you know, and so
part of the you know, people look at whether it's dating,
a relationship is a game of musical chair chairs and
they don't want to get stuck without a seat. So
(19:28):
a lot of times people would rather stay in a
bad relationship than no relationship. If they got divorced and
then got remarried again, a third time is not nearly
as far fetched as a second time was to them, absolutely,
you know. And how is it changing that the women
are paying more alimony and child support than they used to.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
I think that certainly they're better earners now than they
were many years ago. So that's all factored into it
when you look at support, either child support or alimonies.
So you know, I have cases where women are the breadwinners,
and I think with the younger generation even more so.
You know, there's automen that stay home and take on
that responsibility and that's okay, it's good.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
You know, how often do you run into how did
you ever marry this person?
Speaker 2 (20:18):
But you know what, it's that expression elephants don't marry
giraffes or giraffes don't marry. You always wonder, like you
see this other person on the other side and you're like, oh, okay,
this is really not a good person. How did you
even get there?
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Right?
Speaker 2 (20:31):
But then you start to uncover things about your client,
You're like, oh, I see how you guys connected. But sometimes, yeah,
I had I had a really sad case where he
was absolutely a para what do they call it?
Speaker 1 (20:43):
A liar?
Speaker 2 (20:45):
You pathological liar diagnosed one hundred percent could fool anybody.
And that was a really sad case because she happened
to be one of the most amazing women I've ever met,
came from a great family. But he was able to
convince her of things that you know, others couldn't and
he was good at it. But other than that, I think,
you know, what people generally are just good relationships.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Just I think if you walk down the aisle, you
are hoping for the best. I think the men are
a lot of times the women. He you know, he's
be a good parent, could provide her get all these
kinds of things, all the stereotypical things. It's still she
dreams of the house, the dog, the white pick offense.
He's not even in that list. But well, I think
when he enters into it, which is why. You know,
(21:26):
some very very wealthy men who have written very big
checks for divorce, you see, get married for the fifth
or sixth time.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
I love.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
I think they do. I think they are hoping in
the moment or they're like, if I marry her, she
won't leave me. There's something about like, oh I'm gonna
lock her down, and they don't. They don't learn their
lesson after all that time.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Yeah, you know, we all are just in this world
trying to love. Yeah, I think, and we all want that.
That's one of the higher needs you know that we
all have.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Yeah, And even when somebody goes through something incredibly painful
and they have been arguing every Tuesday in court for
three years or whatever, there's a part of them, and
that's part of your job, and that's part of our job,
and that sort of society's job is to flame that
hope again and have them because once they can see
there's a possibility of all right, once I get through this,
(22:17):
or once I stop thinking about this or the anger
or the sadness subsides, I can start new again. And
there's still time to do that. That's look.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
I have people getting prenuptials that are in their eighties.
They found love again, they found companionship, right, and they
want to make sure that their estates are secure for
their family. So they're going to have their trust all
in place and all this. They just want to be
together and it's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Can you if somebody dies without a will here, that's different.
Every state's different, Every state's different. Yeah, And can they leave?
Can somebody leave their estate to a dog in this state?
Speaker 2 (22:57):
And that's not you know, that's above my.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Pag No, that's not what I mean. Certain states, it's like, yeah,
the dog has a budget, and it's eighty percent of.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
The will dog custody cases. Do you but dogs are
considered chattel property from the old days, right, Yeah, so
I mean, we've had drawn out fights about who gets
a dog. And the bottom line is you can't have
a visitation schedule. You can agree to it separately, but
you can't have The courts won't order that.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
They won't. They won't be like you get the dogs
on weekends.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
There's case all right on point one person gets a dog,
it's considered property and that's it. I know, I know,
I know that'll change because we all love our for friends.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Well, I mean, you know, fifty years ago, until the fifties,
dogs were not in the house. Right, This is a
fairly new development, and a lot of countries are like that.
They're working animals and they're out and their true thousand
horses or whatever. And somewhere time after World War Two,
we decided to let the dog in the house. And
then the dog got in the bed, and the dog
was a child, and then he took over. I mean
(23:57):
he takes over. But yeah, I didn't think about it.
I didn't think about that dog or cat custody.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, I've had a prenup in which
that was going to be. That was one of the issues.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
I get the dog, that's got to be tough. And
then do they do they work out visitation or is
that separate in the courts? Just like whatever you want
to figure out, figure out they ken.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
It's just that if you can't agree, the court's going
to give the dog to one person.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Is it. I've asked some people this who have gotten
divorced because somebody had an affair with somebody else. Yeah,
And I always wondered, is it better if twenty years
later they're still with that person because on some levels,
like well, I guess it worked out for them, or
the pairs of people always were rooting for it to
(24:43):
not work out.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
No, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
I think that would make it easier, while like, oh,
I guess that they were better together than we were.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Have I had those cases of course? And you know
what I mean. Look, I mean unfortunately people aren't faithful
from time to time. I have to tell you it's
not what I see is one of the maze major causes.
It's really more about financials and a lot about just
really communication. I know it sounds so cliche, right, but
(25:11):
really just not growing together. They're just growing separately, and
so you have to work at it right. You have
to really work at your marriage right.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
They got lazy. They went from husband wife to mom
and dad, and then they grew apart, and.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Then you get comfortable. And you know, I say, sometimes
people spend more time on their financials like writing checks
or now we do it online, than they do on
really working on the relationship every month, and you got
to work at it.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Is there a huge rise in divorces when the youngest
kid turns seventeen. That's a real thing.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
That's a real thing because a lot of people have
a perception that it's better to stay together even though
it's bad until the children leave.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
I have my own personal opinion on that. I'm not
a therapist. I'm not into that line of work, but
I just think it's a horrible example.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
You were very very young when your parents got divorced.
You could you remember that? Oh?
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Is there an age where I guess every age is tough.
They're old enough to understand but not quite old enough
to process it. There's that's a pretty big window. What
do you remember about it?
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Just I remember he took my sister and I out
to lunch with her, and I thought, you know, here,
I am like probably four or five, at almost five
at the time, and I thought, why am I with
this lady? It felt weird to me, It felt not
right right. A child other than that don't have a
lot of memory of it, right, but I do remember
it being something was wrong.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Can you work that out in court? Can she say
I don't he can have visitation or partial custody but
not around her.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
The answer is yes and no.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Right he's kept doing force. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
So the courts in Florida very hitch's the word liberal,
but they're very understanding that both parents get to have
our due process, constitutional right to have our children and
to parent them as we see appropriate. And if you
chose to have a child with this person, then they
get to make some decision on who they're going to
expose a child to. So the courts are really reluctant
(27:12):
to say no girlfriend or boyfriend around the child unless
there's some best interest, like the person is using drugs
or just really not a good person. But generally they
they you know, they don't go there. I had a
lady today, She's like, well, I don't want him to
have the child because he has only one bedroom and
(27:33):
he he this is a divorce, you know, like a
year later and he has a new girlfriend. The daughter
is eight from the relationship, and the new girlfriend has
a child who's six, and like, where are they going
to sleep? And all that. I'm like, listen, the courts
are going to say, he's going to figure it out. Yeah,
you know, they're six and eight?
Speaker 1 (27:51):
So does tie go to the mother?
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Does what a tie?
Speaker 1 (27:55):
It's like in baseball? The tie goes to the runner?
Does a tie go to the mother? I don't believe. Okay,
if it's no, I want the no.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Nh uh. That was called the tender year doctrines. That
was way when I first started. Primarily moms got children
because they presumed that up through the age. I believe
it was too that the mothers were necessary to care
and feed and do all the thing's caretaking. That was abolished.
That's gone. It's really many men get more time sharing
than women.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
They do. Yeah, I know, but I thought it was
always tough that the court was going to be like that.
The woman has a lot more wiggle room behaviorally than
the man, would you know.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
I think that is kind of a transception, is because
it really is a caretaker who's been the primary caretaker
and if the mother has been which typically in many cases,
is the case, then they will, you know, but it's Look,
there's no presumption in Florida fifty to fifty time sharing.
That's that's a policy here. That's not something we do.
But do the courts look at them? Sure they do
(29:01):
in their own minds.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Well, what did two people do if they're just like,
he's the worst father, she's the worst mother. Yeah, nobody's gonna.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Cave prove it. You got to prove it to the
court because it's best interest. And it's not easy because
most of these best interest issues of bad dad bad
mom are done in the privacy of your home.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Yeah, you know, can the court rule fifty to fifty
or so? The court can? Yes, What if somebody is well,
which again we're in South Florida, sure wealthy, they want
the custody, But the custody for them means their nanny
is going to do their half of the raising.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Is that That's a good question. You know. I always
say that if dad's let's just say it's dad, right,
and dad's around, and he has somebody that's going to
help with the caretaking as long as he's around, and
you know, he's not every night somewhere else, why not.
You know, the courts are going to permit that an
extra set of hair hands. It takes a village, right.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Is it a myth that the divorces went up from COVID.
I don't know if Florida wasn't quite locked down.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Yeah, you know what. I tried to figure that out,
and I couldn't find stats that conclusively told me that.
I didn't see any change. I mean, I saw some
change in postponed filings.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Right, it might have been an illusion that afterwards because
the courts were so backed up and they still are right,
and so it looked like a spike.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Did you were able to do it the whole time?
They do it online here?
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Yeah, so you know, some out of something bad something good. Right,
So we in our office always had zoom because I
found that clients run in privacy. I had one lady
get in the elevator, wants to come to my office.
Guess who was in the elevator her husband, oh man,
and couldn't explain it at all. Why was she there?
She was a stay at home mom and house maker
and all that.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
And why was he there? Well, he was.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Visiting somebody at one of the offices.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
And so she had no she had no.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Idea, and I thought, oh, this isn't good. So we
got zoom in place. But the courts now do most
of the hearings non evidentiary hearings and smaller hearings by zoom.
Great for clients, yeah, not always good for Like I
had a five day trial. You can't do that by zoom.
I mean, is it possible, yes, but it's going to
add another three days onto. How do you show somebody
(31:18):
a document? You know? How do you It's really challenging.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
And they're not jury trials, right, they're just the judge,
just the judge. How often so a woman comes to
you or a man and they say, I'm thinking about
getting divorced, do you try and tell them how to
sock some money away for the divorce process because some
people don't like some people don't have access to Like
(31:42):
you brought up the woman with sneaking the meeting, Well,
it's tough to sneak the bill the retainer, it is.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Yeah, So listen, everybody out there, have your own money,
have your own resources, just in case you never know.
And I could get into a whole topic on that one.
But because I have three girls, you know some always
telling them to make sure you're your own person, which
I learned from my mother.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Right.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
But the answer is, yeah, someday you need your your
your funds, you know, and we we try to. We're
not like some lawyers are like, Hey, the retainer's ten grand,
and that's what it is. And no, it's not a
one size fits all because I may be able to
do the divorce and be more flexible or have different arrangements.
It depends.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
So but you must charge more if it's a wealthy couple, right, No,
but you have.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
More resources available, right, so all the buildings the same,
it is. Yeah, it's just you're going to probably have
some more complicated issues, maybe with valuation problems.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
And that'll rack up the hours. Absolutely okay, But how
do you what do you do if you're the woman
and she hasn't had her own resources. It's you know,
old school traditional marriage. Are you like, I don't get
this on the back end?
Speaker 2 (32:49):
No, No, I don't personally do that, and I don't
know many good family lawyers that do, or board certified lawyers.
But it's not an injury attorney, no, exactly. You can't
in some cases for like collection of rearg and support.
We can do that. I don't personally do it, but
some lawyers do and that's permitted. But you will get
to a temporary relief hearing and you will ask the
court to impose attorney's fees and costs and you know,
(33:12):
based on need and ability. So you just have you
have to jump through like about probably sixty ninety days
of work.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Are people pretty good with making the payments they're supposed
to make or does that depend on the state they.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Are with my firm?
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Okay, certain states are tougher too, certain states. Some it's
criminal and some are civil. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
I mean here the judges understand what it takes to
get a case through and they understand the issues. And
if it's complicating, you need experts involved. I mean some
cases you got you know, valuation cases where you have
a lot of businesses and you got to bring an
expert in. It's like doing a value for any purpose.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Yeah. What does somebody do who they own a business together? Yeah,
it happens there.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
One person is going to get it if you go
to trial. Now, some cases they have agreements to work together.
I have one couple they are in business together post
divorce and they chose to be in business because they
are amazing business partners together.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Or yeah, and then maybe if the business fell apart,
then neither neither one's going to get any money. Yes,
So yeah, that makes sense too, have.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
An interest, right?
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Huh? What the most common? Is there a length of
time of marriage that it's kids aside and we brought
that they turned seventeen? Is it the three to five
year part where most divorces happened or is it quicker
or longer?
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Longer?
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (34:31):
From my experience, so I think it's somewhere around the
seven year seven years.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
That's a real pay No, it's.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
A real thing, you know, because you're still on the
honeymoon stage right right, and you start settling into more
complacency after a period of time. So yeah, you know
seven plus. I have a lot of long term marriages too,
which is anything over eighteen years?
Speaker 1 (34:51):
What's the longest marriage? Can you say? You can say
over fifty years?
Speaker 2 (34:55):
They were married.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
I had met and she wanted to go back out,
and he was doubt is that?
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Let me tell you. I had one lady come to
me and this is a recent case, and she's in
her eighties and she said, I am not going to
die married to him?
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (35:09):
And you know what, she has a right, she has right.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
And sometimes that's you know, the energy levels, the health levels.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
And remember in Florida, you get fifty percent if you
get through a divorce, right, you get fifty percent generally
from the assets. Right, it's like a net worst statement.
Divide it in half. You get thirty percent if the
person if as an estate through probate, so thirty versus fifty.
Sometimes they get divorced because they want that higher percentage.
(35:39):
How they can do what they want with it. Right,
There's a lot of times there's issues with older children.
They align with one parent over the.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Other over fifty. When they over thirty years and they
get divorced, it's generally more amicable or is It's hard
to say.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
It's hard to say. It's the same.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
What's the quickest you've dealt with divorced? Like they get
married on Friday and they're in there on Monday.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
That's called an annulment. And hopefully they didn't have relationships.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Well, can you get an old? Can you get an
old for no reason? No?
Speaker 2 (36:09):
It has to be based on like fraud.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
What if like we we had never lived together, before
we got married, honeymoon, we moved together. I can't believe
he puts his socks on the floor. I can not
deal with this.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
You're gonna have it.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Yeah, you had an under thirty days and like, this
isn't working.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
I have had a few like that, but they're rare.
They're rare.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
So it's the sweet spot. It's the seven years.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Yeah, seven years plus seven to like eighteen. When they
come to me after like twenty plus years, I'm like,
really really, you know, so I really try to make
sure that this is what they really need to do,
want to do, should do.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Uh how often are you like, oh my god, I'm
on the other person's side. But this is my job
as a lawyer. Like you're a terrible wife or your
terrible husband, But I got to do my job. But
oh man, you know.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
I don't take every case that comes to the door
because I've had people that have agendas and I can
pretty much spot that so or personalities that don't match
with mine. You know, because I'm gonna be a straight
shooter and I'm going to tell you the way it is.
I'm not going to just do it to get paid.
I'm going to tell you listen, you gotta clean that,
you know up, because that personality isn't going to do
(37:20):
well for me, for you or for your case. So
I try to get a little control there, client control.
And then sometimes it doesn't work out and we're just
not a good match.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Or you're like, of course he's going to divorce you
or I like that and I'm like, okay, I get this, yeah,
or it's like oh yeah, I see what you were doing.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Oh boy, I've had those.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Yeah. I mean every you know, divorced woman thinks she
happened to marry a narcissist, right, you know that's statistically
it's like, oh my god, there's such bad luck for everybody.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
You know what that's that that that term is used
so often here I think.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Over you it is statistically it's like two percent of
people are clinical narcissists. And I'm like, maybe maybe he
just didn't like or maybe it's just a jerk, or
it's how how often are the guys like, you know what,
she really just wanted money, She really did just want
my money? And is the courts like too bad? Like
you didn't realize that it's too bad? Right?
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Orts are too bad? It's really it's a mathematical calculation, right,
what are the assets at that data marriage data filing?
Speaker 1 (38:20):
That's it divided. She not quite married you under false pretenses,
but they love you. The I love yous were probably
not as binding as you thought they were.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Look, and we have a lot of second high marriages
where the older person is marrying some of the younger
and you know, typically the and the writings on the wall.
I mean not every case, right, but very often, you know,
but love comes in different forms, and maybe being taken
care of and protected and knowing you're financially secure is
(38:51):
valuable and has.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
You know, that's starting to change more too. There's more
women in that situation, absolutely, more sugar mamas than they're
used to. Yeah, yes, especially down here where she has
her late husband ex husband's money and then she's like,
I'm gonna have fun with the young guy and then
he had spent two years and then that's it. I know,
what is the thing that people be surprised to learn
(39:14):
about getting divorced, the process of it, or.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Surprised about it. It's really not that complicated, really, yeah,
if you can, And that's why being a life coach
too is a helpful. I think asset for my clients,
but if they don't use me for life coaching and
they have a therapist. Look, there's the emotions of divorce,
and it really needs to be separate and apart from
the divorce and your lawyer. But the divorce itself pretty simple.
(39:41):
It's not challenging. It's all those emotions. So the biggest on,
the biggest myth is it's really not that bad. I
know you feel it is when you're in it, right,
but the process itself not overly complicated.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
The process has been honed over time by the courts
and lots of lawyers. I was in a Why is
there such a plethora of injury attorney advertising? I don't know,
was there a law change or something that it's every
billboard because there used to be in the morning. I mean, well,
there used to be liquor. There used to be a
(40:18):
ban on liquor advertising on television. And then I went
away and we see more of it. So nothing changed,
and suddenly everybody's a injury. I mean I went through that.
I was in a car accident a couple of years ago.
I broke thirteen ribs and a lot of other things.
Ribs are nebulous. They hurt a lot, but they're recoverable.
So they said, right, there's no damage, there's no surgery.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
There's no ultimate right, and it's tough to.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Wrap up the bills on it. And so it's one
of those things. So the lawyers like, by the time
we get to court on this, you're going to be fine.
You know, it's hard to describe how much it hurt.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
That's that's what my ex husband does. And you'll have
a horrific accident, you know, and I'm sure it was
extremely painful and lost wages and time and all that.
But if you can recover physically, yeah, and you don't
have the damages, the permanent damage, right from what I know.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
That's not my expertise, you know, because I know. So
it's like, by the time if you heal, people are like, oh, yeah,
broken ribs, terrible, it sucks. I'm like, I had thirteen
of them. They're like, yeah, you're fine now. So I
had we had to settle it long before we went
to cortcause the longer we waited, the or healed. I
was I know, thank god, I know, thank god, it
(41:30):
was a good thing. But I was surprised at how
well this was worth this, and this is worth this,
and then there's pain and suffering, and here's the insurance,
and here's what they were. It was very, very like
people had gone through this a million times.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Yeah, all right, this is your first time on the podcast.
We play something with our guests called worst date or
first date. So you have to you have to think
back to your swinging single days. Give me either the
worst date you've ever had or the best first date
you've ever had.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Your choice first estate, Yes, our best first day.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
Either the best first date or a terrible date of
any number.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
First Okay, and I can see him from where I'm
sitting right now.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
Oh good.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
My husband, my current husband, we met on July third,
twelve years ago, and we met for lunch and at
the mall here and I got out, you know, of
work at the time, and we spent the entire I
canceled my entire day and the next day, that was
on a Friday, July third, and I saw him the
(42:30):
next day and I got married in four months.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Fireworks.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Yeah, wow, amazing chemistry, just like safety chemistry. I can't
even explain.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
How long had you? How long were you single.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
Oh, a couple of years, A couple of years. Yeah,
and I had dated you know that here and there,
but I wasn't. I was never really a dating type.
I am busy, I you know so, and I have
three young children.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
Right.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Yeah, so you.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Married fireworks state fireworks the next night. Yeah, four months later.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
Yeah, good for you. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Can I ask where you met?
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Yeah? We met at the Grand Lux the restaurant. Yeah,
at the mall. Which mall is that in town center?
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Oh? Yeah? Right here in Boca Raton there it all
goes down here.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
I'm there and uh yeah, so good for you.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Yeah, all right, where can everybody find you if they
need a lawyer? Or listen to your podcast?
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Okay, so it's your divorce, your amazing divorce. And then
my email dress is Dorin Yaffa and the last name
is spelled Yaffa at Yaffa Family Lawgroup dot com and
five six one two seven six three eighty zero.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Good job. This was fun. I've never been married or divorced,
but now I'm not so scared of either.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Okay, just remember prenup.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Noted see that to me, it would be hard. I'm like,
I just slip it across the table at Grandlox on
the first day.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
It's okay. It's not for everybody.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
It's not for everybody, but you're right, I can logistically
at least you have something. The worst thing is like
you don't have anything like prenup Like sure.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
True?
Speaker 1 (44:00):
All right, As far as us like share, follow, please
review not just your amazing divorce but our podcast to
Your reviews mean a lot in the podcasting ecosystem. Shoot
us an email, Great Loove Debate at gmail dot COMFG
any questions, comments, thoughts, or divorce horror stories. We might
do a whole episode on that because, as always at
the Great Love Debate, we never stopped making love. See
you next time. The Great Love Debate. It's the Great
(44:28):
Love Debate, the Great Love Debate. It's a Great Love Debate.
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