Episode 94 - Twistedpedia - Some pirates and a holy Rood

As Ali in rance (apparently for the last time!) The wonderful hosts of Crimepedia, Morgan and Cherry have joined Bob over the interweb for a speacial recording this week.

Bob tells Cherry and Morgan about some pirates with a twist! Mary Read, was a bad ass pirate but did the crew know her real identity.

And then....... Morgan blows the socks off the oldest case and possibly the weirest one too! A Cross tried for murder!

Thanks for listening

Episode Transcript

(00:35):
Hello, and welcome to Twisted Britain. The podcast and two Crime and Britain
was a sprinkling the weird of mycat and a host would normally be me
Bob Dale and him Ali Downey,but him Ali Downey has buggered off to
France again. So I am Ihave the absolute pleasure of being joined by
two wonderful podcasting friends. Hi,I'm more. Hello, I'm Jerry,

(01:03):
and you guys are the wonderful horseof Crimepedia. Thank you thanks for having
us. It's lovely to be Yeah, not, thanks very much for joining
me. This kind of dug meout of the hole because I was going
to have fuck all to upload nextweek if we didn't do this so tight

(01:23):
to the line. We fucking runit here on this ship. Cramepedia is
a wonderful podcast. Let me seethat from the off it is. It's
got some twisted britain esque feeling toit at times, doesn't it. It's
the two of you, Yeah,yeah, and you take it in turns
to tell each other some ship fromhistory. Is that about right? Well?

(01:47):
Yeah, I'm usually the old I'mabout the old time. I'm about
the old time. Cases in Morgan'sa little bit more up to date.
But yeah, I do love it. I do. I must say I
do love it when you guys doold cases. I love it of this
right up my streets. I dolove listening to Twisted Britain. So I
am fan girling being on your show, which is amazing. Oh no,
it's an absolute pleasure to have you. And because I knew you liked historical

(02:10):
cases, I've gone way back foryou. So I will tell you the
case this evening that I think we'lltickle your fancy cherry because of its age.
But I think, Morgan, you'regoing to join this one because it's
just a bit fucking mad. Ican't wait, and you're going to do
me the pleasure after I've told youa tale, Morgan of returning the favor

(02:31):
I am, and I think Imight one up you with a even order.
Yeah, I like an old casechallenge. I've been called for many
a thing in my time, butan old case challenge is probably the best
one. I'm looking forward to this. I'm just going to sit back and
listen. I was gonna say,you get the easy stick out of this,
just then listening to us till hetalks shape for a while but here

(02:54):
we are love it. I loveit. Before we go any far though
we did. We have recorded monthsbefore, which how was it? Crime
corn in London of this year?And might I say it was one of
my favorite podcasting recording experiences for manymany different reasons. The fact that we

(03:14):
had a wonderful panel. I thinkit was probably one of the best,
like independent podcast panels that they couldhave put together. It was great fun.
I really enjoyed it, and Ireally enjoyed an audience. It was
very cool to have people that engagedin front of you. It was talking
to them, wasn't It was areally good audience. They were lovely yea.
So we will do that again nextyear. Definitely. We'll maybe find

(03:37):
a different format to do, butwe'll definitely drink clients and talking about podcasting.
I think that's but we'll maybe dosome crime cases in the middle of
it, five minute everybody or something. That's a great idea I have.
They have the genuine pleasure of doingit again. When this comes out this
weekend, I'll be doing it withShoot for British Murders and the girls from

(03:58):
Murder She Spoke and Cherry You aregoing to join us sadly you're not coming
anymore. I'm sure I can't bethere. Sorry, I'm going to put
an punt of cherries on an emptychair for you. Oh bah my love
that I will be with you inspirit, and I'll be with you,
possibly by the medium of video,but not just not in person, not
in person, but I will bethere in spirit. Thank you very much.

(04:21):
And Morgan, I hear that ifyou put up the Patreon of crime
Pedia to three dollars a month,you could come to crime conn in Glassgow
next year as well. That's right, for only three dollars a mine,
which is still do you know what? I listened back to the episode we
did in London and I didn't realizehow quickly off the bat I called your

(04:42):
podcast for I actually don't even apologizefor it. So there you are.
Anyway, we've talked enough shape ifyou want to go Cramecorn, you can't
do. I'm not going to sellyou anything because if you won't go,
you'll go, and I'll be aboutthat. So tonight I was going to

(05:02):
tell you about a case I couldsay. It's from way back when.
It's kind of some of my favoritetopic and savorite favorite time period that we're
going to talk about tonight. Tonight, I'd like to tell you about Mark
Read. Mark Read, Okay,Mark Read was a famous pirate in the
Golden Age of Piracy. A pirate. It's like I've written this down,

(05:27):
It's like the next line is Aliloves witches. I love pirates. That's
kind of how we're at here.I don't know what that says abouts IM
sure some psychologists will think we're bothfucked, but never mind. The Golden
Age of Piracy was just an incredibleperiod in history between the sixteen fifties and
about the seventeen thirties, and Iwould go as far as saying it played

(05:49):
a huge part in shaping the NewWorld in both directions, changing the histories
of the Atlantic. It kind ofin your direction, Morgan. In fact,
the part of it was well justbefore the American what was the seventeen
seventy six was revolution period, Sowe're talking about right up to the kind

(06:10):
of seventeen thirty seventeen fifties, justoff the American coast. So it's a
huge part of American history. Andagain in the other direction, towards the
East India Company, we've all heardof them and that was the piracy that
went render Cape and good hope thatkind of direction and the Golden Age of
Piracy covers all of them. Andit's a kind of period. Like I

(06:30):
say, it's of about one hundredyears. But i'll borre you a little
bit on piracy just now, ifthat's all right, go ahead before I
come back to tell you about Markread so the Golden Age of Piracy,
which I just enjoy saying. So. I've written it down probably more times
than I should have done, inthis what I call script, which is

(06:53):
wonderful. I would take yourself becauseI've got it propped up and everything and
I'm dancing around. It's great funESSI nothing about twisted Britain as professional you
can the Bucking T shirt and Ialso want Golden dad Age of piracy on
it as well. But every dy. So we'll just split the time period

(07:18):
that we're talking about up at akind of three. There's three parts.
The first would be the seventeen fiftiesto the late eighteen eighties, and we
call them the buccaneers. That's thekind of buccaneer and they, yeah,
it was the Spanish. I thinkbuccaneering. It's something to do with them.
Tobacco trading and smoking and things likethat, So they became the buccaneers

(07:40):
and Spanish lot that set off towardswell, just fighting with the English all
over the place because they all wantedto nick everything from everywhere. And then
from eighteen and sorry, from thesixteen eighties, we moved through into the
early seventeen hundreds, and this iswhere we're talking about the stuff that goes
around the Cap of Good Hope.That's that long distance travel, the kind
of basis of and set up inthe earlier period, and they can go

(08:01):
off and rob the East now.And then we get back to the bit
that we all know about as pirates, and that's the bit from the kind
of seventeen ten onwards till the endof piracy or this kind of piracy,
and you kind of get to yourpirates, the Caribbean type thing and what
we think of as Hollywood pirates.I suppose it's probably the way to put

(08:24):
it. Yeah, not quite,Johnny Depp, because they weren't they all
chasing mythical ship through the oceans.Well, some of them were, I
suppose. But that kind of piratescode pirates honor the stuff we know of
it is that period, and thatkind of time frame overlapped with p privateering,

(08:46):
which were basically pirates under the employmentof a state power who were used
at the knife edge of war,so the powers that be the British Navy
didn't have to send their own ships. Yeah, it's quite a good thing.
It's quite a good thinking. It'sthe most mad period of history.
When I ever talk about pirates,I'm kind of like, I don't know

(09:07):
when it's the romanticism of it alland stuff like that, but I mean,
it was fucking brutal that whole onehundred years. It's still pretty fucking
cool. Yeah, before I finishboring you about piracy, can I think
it comes to I think it's fairto say that it changed history for most

(09:30):
of the world. They covered tensof thousands of miles of ocean, ended
thousands of life, and although Ihave simplified it, I think it was
necessarily to kind of set up whatwe're about to talk about. So I'd
like to get back to Mark Reador I could say Mary Read. Oh
okay, because one of the thingsabout piracy is we can all name pirates,

(09:56):
but very few of us can namefemale pirates. No, I don't
know any so you can. Youcan name Blackbeard whose Edward teach black Sam
Bellamy, and the male that willfeature in our till this evening Calico Jack.

(10:16):
Now Calico Jack had not one buttwo members of female pirate crew.
But I don't think he knew thatat the start of his sailings. Oh
my god. So I'm going togo with Mark slash Mary for a bit

(10:39):
until we make a decision whether webelieve we should go with Mary or Mark.
Okay, I'll give you I'll giveyou a clue. I'm going to
call this episode Mary Reid. Thereyou go. Let me just say,
I just want to make a commentreal quick, right, Yeah, there's
something completely just badass about a femalepirate because it's such it's it's a male

(11:01):
thing, right, It's very masculine, the idea of a pirate. Right,
you you have if you say pirateand imagine what a pirate looked like,
you have that that that look?Does that pirate look right? Kind
of like scraggly hair. Maybe they'renot like completely clean shaven. They got
a peg leg, they got theirsword, they're ready to go. But

(11:22):
the idea of a female pirate inthat world, especially at that at that
time right where it's a world wherewomen aren't don't have the same rights as
a male right there. They arestay at home, they're watching the kids,
they're tending the house. So tohave a female pirate in this day

(11:43):
and age, it's absolutely amazing.Kind of sexy, right, I think
it's quite sexy. It's like theshield Mason, like the shield Maidens,
you know, like in their vikings, like they're bad ass sexy women that
like fighting. Oh yeah, spitand cars and beat people up. And
yeah, it's great. I loveit, trust me. I mean yeah,

(12:03):
every Halloween, you know, youhave those sexty pirates walking around.
That's me, baby, I said, your pictures with my sexy pirate out,
Phil Morgan, I love it thatdescription that you just made there Moregan,
I'd like you to hold on tothat because I'll come back to it
in a bit, and not specificallyfor the men. But Mary got all

(12:26):
the way with a lot of shitthat baffles me. But before we skip
onto that, let me tell youwho Mary actually was. Slash Mark sorry.
She was born in Plymouth in Englandand somewhere around about sixteen eighty five,
and she spent most of her youth, dressing as a boy for separate

(12:46):
reasons, depending on what she wasdoing at time, but pretty much always
at her mother's assistance. It wasoriginally so they could claim an inheritance,
but as she got bit older,it was so that she could join the
military. And Ali and I've talkedabout several women who dressed as men who
kind of join military and serve ondifferent ways. And it's maybe just my

(13:09):
brain, but it always makes methink of Bob from Blackadder. And I'm
not sure whether that's possibly too nichefor a US audience, but if you
are listening to this and you've neverwatched Black Adam before, it is fucking
wonderful, brilliant. And Ball fromBlack Adam was exactly that. She's a
female, just as a man tohelp to serve in the First World War,

(13:33):
but nobody knew it was a girl. It always amazes me kind of
what people got away with your people, what what whether it being con Sorry
I'm just spat words out without actuallymeaning anything anyway, move on from Bob
and from Black Ada. But whatamazes me about it is that most of

(13:56):
the time these women either got awaywith it. I managed to can sealed
themselves and nobody knew that they werewomen, or as I probably believe was
they all fucking knew they were women, they just didn't say anything. Yeah,
I ready, that's right, whichis in itself when we're talking about
seventeen early seventeen hundreds, you know, the acceptance of a woman into a

(14:20):
group of men, especially on apirate ship, that we're going to go
on and talk about, is insanefor the reasons that you listed. Morgan.
Yeah, Mary's mother had been marriedbefore Mary was born, and she'd
had another child with her husband.Sadly, her husband died quite young.
We don't know specifically what of buthe was a sailor, so there's every

(14:45):
chance he died at sea, andwhat he left behind was a widow with
a child. Noddy's mother said widowmet another man and became pregnant, so
they had a lot of fun together. And because of the pregnancy and the
time period, women who were notmarried but with child weren't normally allowed to

(15:09):
stay within the city they were in, especially London. In places like that,
you know, they were sent tothe countryside, or maybe headed to
the countryside to have a child insecret. Sadly, Mary's older half brother
died of an illness when he wasquite young. And this is the kind
of marking point as to when Marystarted dressing as Mark. Mark was the

(15:33):
name of her elder brother. Andfor Mary's mother to continue to receive the
I can't remember the actual word forit now. I was going to say
dowry, but that's not right.She was given an allowance from her mother
in law that would help bring upthe child. So well, sadly the
child's dead, so we'll just usethis other one dressed up. As baffling

(15:58):
as it may sound, the motherin law bought it, and they continued
to receive a weekly allowance from them, which we kept them alive. And
I've just got this picture in myhead and turning up to this old woman's
house with like and she's got thethick molass glasses on, so she's definitely
pretty much blind. And they justhide the glasses and present this very different

(16:22):
child in front of them, goingit's Mark, Sup saying yeah, good
enough for me. You fuck it. They'll dude, clearly my grandson not
even related. Oh my, whatlarge breast you have. Now we'll come
on to that in a bit.Oh, that was a terrible sentence.

(16:45):
No, we won't. All right, We'll take that as a good point
to skip on a bit in Mary'slife, because I'm not going to see
in her teenage years, which makesbut even came before even worse. She

(17:07):
joined the military in her teenage years. Certainly by the time she was about
twenty, she was in the Britishmilitary, and she served fighting in the
Nine Years War that took place againstthe French. The French against the French
in Flanders. So they fought alongsidethe Dutch against the French for the Nine
Years War. And by all accounts, Mary slash Mark was a very good

(17:32):
soldier. If it hadn't been forthe fact that the best and pretty much
only way to become an officer atthe time was to buy your commissionship,
she probably would have gone down thatroute and becoming an officer. Ali and
I and I could. I wasracking my brain on the walk up here
tonight. Al and I have talkedabout a female soldier and it was it
was not in this time. Hewas just slightly later who became an officer

(17:56):
and went through and received an armypension and all sorts before anybody a female
serving and it's that's a and I'llif I can remember what it is,
I'll send you a link. Becauseit's just it's Alie telling a story.
So it's wonderful at start, butit's also just a mad one in itself.
Yeah, that would have been herkind of normal route if it had

(18:17):
been at a point where she couldhave afforded a commission. But like I
said, she was on a weeklyallowance at that point, and so she
didn't stay with the regiments she wasin for very long. After the Nine
Years War, she joined a cavalryregiment, which, if you read my
script says carvery regiment. Delicious carverydo like a carvery only one way.

(18:40):
You're allowed all three weeks because they'vebeen limited. They might to meets you
have and you can fuck right off. Mary slash Mark managed to prove themselves
and as a skilled soldier in battle, and actually during the war she fell
in love with a Flemish soldier,a Dutch soldier. Now I don't know
if he knew she was a she, but I don't think it would take

(19:03):
much rummaging around to find that shewas a she. So whether it was
whether he went through parts of thiswar with a very confused mind. That's
why he fancied this man along theway. And then she went yade or
he was maybe gay and she turnedit back. We don't know. Either

(19:30):
way, love blossomed and they bothleft the military and did the right thing
in opening a pub. Oh mygod, that's brilliant. That's great,
And this is probably no an awkwardconversation. They were like, if they're
flirting with each other and he believesthat she's a man, or whether I
wonder if he actually like knew shewas a woman, and like let her

(19:52):
know that he knew so they couldlike, you know, because I mean,
quite awkward if you were thinking youare floating with a man and then
actually, you know, you're missinga couple of things, but you've got
a couple of extra things. There'sa huge amount going on in my brain
right now that none of which I'mallowed to see it out loud. But

(20:14):
I would like to think that asthey became closest friends, she found a
confidante and they moved on from there, that the story, yeah, probably
happened in the war might have beenvery, very different, But no,
this reminds me of a of amovie in the eighties called Ah, your

(20:37):
dodgy Movie. It was so tolydodgy movie, just one of the guys.
So that was like, that's howI'm pretty sure that how they came
up with the script to just oneof the guys. Just one of the
guys was a was a movie abouta college girl woman who decided to go
back and write an expose on highschool life, but she did it as

(20:59):
a boy and at the end,her and her love interest, uh well,
he found out that that that hewith a she when she decided to
flash her breath at him, andthat might have been the first breath I
saw on TV and not the last. And from then on they were together,

(21:22):
happy, and they opened a pubsomewhere. Yeah, yeah, absolutely,
I like that. I like that. You've been watching lots of like
My best Friend's Diaries, movies orsome shi that they opened their pub.
In this case, however, theyfelt love they didn't, and they opened

(21:44):
the pup together, the Three Horseshoes. I believe it's cold. It was
in Holland. It is sadly likeone of these cases that we talked about,
and Ali and I've talked about loadsof cases were like, oh,
they's got that pub fucking closed.It's now it's now a block of flats
or whatever. This one doesn't existat all other than I think it's remembered
in a brewery. They've got abeer that's kind of immemorial, obviously,

(22:12):
And if that was the story ofMark slash Mary, I wouldn't be telling
you about it, because that's justalthough it's weird, it's not twisted,
and we always like to think ofsome kind of crime to put to hone
our way into telling stories on twistedBritain. And although piracy in itself as

(22:33):
a crime of actually told you aboutMary being a pirate at all. Yet,
so sadly this takes a bit ofa turn here and Mary and her
husband and the pub doesn't pub wasdoing really well to start with, Sonny,
but sadly Mary's husband dies in theshort period after they started they opened
the pub. Now I'm thinking aboutthis out loud. Actually, she's lost

(22:56):
a lot of people in her lifeso far, and we're talking early twenties
at this point, so that's apretty sad life to be going through.
But as if that wasn't bad enough, the end of the war meant that
there was less soldiers about that neededto get absolutely mortled of an evening.
So there was a distinct downturn inthe finances that came into the pub,

(23:18):
and sadly she had to close thepub and then open up her wardrobe of
male clothes again. Oh no,back to the balls. Back to the
ball. I'm not sure she strappedon, but she certainly got on a
pair of trousers, popped on herbreeks and went back to the military.

(23:44):
But because you know, the pub, the finances of the puber gone down,
because there's no soldiers about it.Because actually, for a very rare
period in the seventeen hundreds, nota huge amount of war going on.
We entered a small slice of timeof peace, and that's not good for
years in the military. So that'swhere she quit the military for the second

(24:04):
time and joined a ship that washeading for the West Indies. And this
is where we went to Pirates are. She joined a ship heading across the
Atlantic towards the Caribbean. This ship, however, was attacked by pirates.
And where that might scare the shitout of most people, I can't think,

(24:26):
genuinely can't think of anything more terrifyingthan just like mosing off on a
cruise to Jamaica and some dude likeyou described earlier, Morgan with a big
smoking beard and the coolest hell hat, jumps on board and goes, you
ain't going fucking nowhere? Yep not. Mary slash Mark saw the pirates jump

(24:52):
on board and went I want tobe like you, and she oh,
yeah, I mean probably a betteroption than being a victim of them m
hm. And they all believed thatMark, Mary was Mark, and she
joined them as a pirate during hertime on this boat that had and I

(25:15):
actually I thought i'd written down thename of the boat that havn't apologies for
that, but during her time onthis boat, they all accepted the King's
pardon. Now, I don't knowif you guys would come across the thing's
pardon ever talking about this kind oftime period, but basically what it was
was offered to pirates to become privateers. It was in that period that we

(25:36):
went right, you can British ships, you can attack the French and the
Spanish, but we get the goodsand you get a share of it.
So you become a freelance pilot forthe state. Yeah, you take you
do a danger. We get allthe money. Yeah, but they get
they get the fun life and asmall amount of it. Yeah, which

(26:00):
I suppose it would have probably beena decent career option for some for people
who were pirates. Mary it wasn'tactually a pirate at this point, or
she had been for a small periodon that boat. I'm becoming a privateer
was probably a safer bit because theyall had They would have genuinely carried a
king's pardon, They would have carrieda document on board that would go with

(26:22):
the captain that says we have theright of blah blah blah blah bad to
do this whatever, And that wouldhave been fine. But that didn't last
for very long, and she couldhave stayed in that line of work if
it hadn't been for the fact thatthe ship she was on was attacked by
another pirate ship, and this timeby the influence Calico Jack. So in

(26:44):
seventeen twenty we find Mark slash Maryon board a ship that didn't have a
big crew, and by all accountsthat I could read, it's somewhere around
eleven of them on the ship KalicoJack's ship. There was not. It's
not a huge No, it's not. It's not like a galleon like you
imagine. It's I don't know,I don't know. Well, I was
going to say a schooner, butI don't know what boats are. It's

(27:06):
a smaller boat. Would you believeit? Mary isn't the only one on
board that was lacking an appendage betweenher legs. Oh, Okay. On
that ship was also a woman bythe name of Anne Bonnie, whose life
had been incredibly similar to that ofMary's. Anne was born in Ireland around

(27:29):
about the same time as Mary.They were kind of of the same age,
and by all accounts, she spenther life growing up pretending to be
a man, just to kind ofget on in life. Sad sentence that
I hate saying, but here weare she had, however, as Rihanna
put it, found love in anawkward place. Oh. She'd fallen in
love with Kaliko Jack whilst in theBahamas and they became partners, not to

(27:52):
just in piracy, but in lifenow. So I'm imagining that Jack will
have known that Anna was a woman, but to get on board and become
a pirate with the rest of thecrew, she would pop on the breeks
and the loose fitting clothing and actuallyvery much what you were talking about earlier,

(28:15):
Morgan, and that was how theyhit themselves. No being there's not
a fake beard or anything, notlike a shitty Santa one or anything.
But they're described as very much dressingin loof's clothing so as to hide boobs
and curves. Boobs and hips,I suppose is what you're hiding in it.
Yeah, so see what I'm confusedabout this. This is where I'm

(28:37):
kind of confused because, like Iknow, you mentioned like pirate code at
the very beginning. I mean,I don't think there was like a handbook
that you were given on your verymuch. There was pirate Oh there was
so for every ship wow that youwent on too, there was a thing
called the Pirate's Article. And thePirate's article was something so I've not actually
written this in this but we've talkedabout it before, and basically article was

(29:00):
like the rules of the ship,and they like they ran a proper tight
little business unit when they were onthese ships. This this wasn't the rugged
free for all that you other thanmutinies obviously did happen, but like the
captain, the first mate, theyall had their those a huge amount of
hierarchy involved in these ships, andthey were signed for on the Pirates article

(29:23):
by every member of crew that cameon board, So there was a definite
Like I agree that Kaliko is theboss, but it could Kaliga go and
say, okay, hey, I'mthe boss. Here's the code. Women
aren't allowed on the boat except forthis one right here, because this is
my woman. He couldn't do that. That's a very good question. I

(29:45):
don't. I think it was probablymore that she was happy identifying as a
man and wanted the equal stands.Okay, that makes sense, rather than
being the made on the ship orthe captain's misses on the ship. Yes,
she was a badass pirate like therest of you. I'm one of
the boys. Yeah, what aboutthere and one of the boys, like

(30:08):
what about the whole having a weiglike mostly blow? I'm guessing they would
just like piss over the side becauseI don't talk for all pirates, but
I enjoy a sit down pe Yeah, and I actually probably on a boat,
you probably would't be sitting on theedge and pissing. Obviously, you
don't fucking fall over. Yeah,I just thought. I just thought,

(30:30):
like, she's not gonna have atodder in her hand? Is she?
Like? Well, that's because Ithink that that harks back to what I
said in the beginning, is likethere was probably an understanding that they did
know. Yeah, but you drew. Yeah, if you drew your cutlass
alongside me, I don't care what'shanging between your legs. If you cut
that guy's fucking head off, you'rewhat you're Yeah, you're one of us.

(30:53):
So this this might be the firstexample of don't ask, don't tell.
Quite possibly, Yeah, more GonaPolly is like, it's easier to
not know the answer to the questionby not posing the question. That's right,
And that's why I think that's whatit was. I actually think that's
what it was in all these caseswe talk about where women trying to be

(31:15):
men. I think we're doing themen in the trenches or the men in
the ship's very much a disservice thatthey thought that that was a guy when
they've been at sea for fucking howeverlong, but they didn't know. Yeah,
they accept the acceptance and then suckthe equality on. It is unmatched
to be honest right, So thestory of these two women meeting, I

(31:37):
just, honestly I find it.I'm amazing. The thought that you could
actually end up with two of theprobably only female pirates in the world ending
up on the same ship probably saysa lot for Calico Jack, to be
honest, the same small ship too. I mean, pirates are out there
and they he ends up on aboat with eleven pirates, and that one

(31:59):
of them happened to be another womanexactly, And whilst on board, both
women held their part up like theyboth pretended to be men even with each
other, because they had to be. They had to hold that face,
that level of no, no,no, what the fuck you're talking about?
Of course, I don't have boobs. I'm totally ridiculous. This kind
of backfired a wee bit where AnneBonnie who I don't know who she was

(32:22):
identifying as If I'm being honest,I just I wasn't reading about Alan,
there we go, because I wasn'treading about and I was reading about Mary,
but I and Alan started to fallfor Mark slash Mary. Oh no,
Like this probably comes back to whatwe were talking about earlier in the
in the war, Like maybe shewas a bit confused about fancying this incredibly

(32:45):
feminine man, but Mary went,Hannah, right, Okay, we need
to This isn't cool. And thereason she was like, we can't do
this any at all. I can'tdo any of this at all was because
Anne divulged her secret to her.She said to Mary, look, I'm
a woman, I'm on bull board, and I'm kind of fallen for you.

(33:07):
Now she was in she was thecaptain's woman and falling in love with
another pirate on the ship, andyou know, Mark slash. Mary is
not going to last very long ifthat gets found out, especially now that
she's the only other person on theship that knows that Anne's Anne. So
Mary just goes snap me too,So they both know. So we're now

(33:35):
in a weird kind of triangle nowwhere two of them know different secrets about
different people. So Annie knew aboutMary, Mary knew and knew about Annie
kill Kellico Jack knew about Annie butdidn't know about Mary. So we've got
this whole scenario where Annie actually probablyknows the most. Yeah, well Anne

(34:00):
and sorry, but Mary's shipping herselfbecause she's worried the Calico Jack's jealous of
a growing relationship between his women pretendingto be a man and another man who
we knows a woman. They thoughtit best to probably save Mary's throat to
tell Jack as well, and byall accounts, Jack ends up with two

(34:22):
pirate mistresses. Of course he does. Well done, Jack, clever,
Jack, well done. That's exactlywhat I would have done if I was
in too. That right, I'llkeep your secret. You need to sort.
You need us to sort your twopirate mistresses next crime con? Can

(34:44):
I have two? If you're listeningto this and you want to go to
crime Con next year, I'll giveyou an extra five percent of your ticket
if you're willing to become Jenny's piratesmistress, and that offers life. The

(35:05):
best thing about these women were theyseem to be two of the most formidable
pirates to face on the ocean atthe time. There were certainly the most
formidable pirates on that boat. Oneof their victims was quoted as saying they
wore men's jackets and long trousers andhandkerchiefs tied around their head. Each of
them had a machete and a pistolin their hands, and they cursed and

(35:29):
swore the Men to murder. Yes, that is so metal. D oh,
I love it, dude. Therehave to be There has to be
an iron Maid song about these two, right, there have to be there.
There is some contemporary stuff about them, but certainly not as much as
I think there should be. Butthen I'm always by, I'm always by

(35:52):
should we tell these stories? Youguys plating the same way to talk about
things, because you do the sameas we do, talk about things that
most people have probably not heard of. Of. You have heard about it,
You're happy to hear the telling ofYeah, and all the time,
I'm like, why the fuck isn'tthere a movie about these people or at
least are like's definitely, but there'sbooks and things about the ladies were talking

(36:14):
about this evening. But yeah,like a sick ass pirate movie about female
pirates part of a Caribbean Get thesetwo on fucking porn hub now, I
mean kidding, kidding, Just jognext year and want to be Morgan's never
mind carry on. Yeah. Oneof the cases that Alan I talked about,

(36:39):
the only kind of modern take thatwe can find on the the perpetrator
within the story was a tiny partof storyline that happened in one of the
Assassin's creeds. Oh but that's absolutelyuPAR geek novel, our geek area.

(37:00):
So yeah, it was a coolfine. So we come back to Morgan's
fantasy. Sorry, These two womenon a boat dressed as men with machetes
and pistols, and we're aboard Calico. Jack's Calico. It keeps in Calico,
but I think it's Calico, andwould aboard his in the ship in
November of seventeen twenty, and they'vehad a big night during the Caribbean.

(37:25):
They're on the RUMs, they havea mad party and they're all hanging out
their arsholes. The next day,at this point, somebody else sees their
opportunity and sneaks up on the shipto attack it. And two of the
most fearsome factors were on the deck, or two badass pitches, and most

(37:46):
of the men were down below going, oh, my head hurts and I'm
not doing so well. When thefighting started, there was gunshots traded.
The account of the attack on theirship within the Caribbean was that Mary Anne
and one other male was on thedeck of the ship and they were returning

(38:10):
fire with her cutlasses drawn, andI don't know if that other male was
Calico Jack or not. Certainly didn'tstate that it wasn't anything I'd read about
it. So three of them upthere and the other eight are sitting down
stairs shitting their knickers. So whilethey're there, Mary's like, what the

(38:30):
fuck are you lot up to andshouts at them to come out here and
fight like the men you should be, Yes, Mary, they didn't,
and Mary was faced off. Soinstead of pointing her weapon at the people
attacking the boat, she instead fireda shot into her own ship, killing

(38:52):
one of her crewmates. I mean, to be honest, fine, Ash,
but if you're on a ship ofonly eleven people, don't remove ten
percent of them attack. The mathsand logistics do not work with me.
But you know fine. She wasshouting cool ship and firing a flint locks

(39:15):
and I'm fine with it. Thetack didn't well, The attack went well,
the defense of their boat didn't goso well, and they were overrun
and Calico Jack basically asked for apirate's pardon. So this was part of
the pirates articles that we were talkingabout earlier, like you could ask to

(39:36):
not be killed on the boat byasking They went off quarter. I think
is the was the state which wouldliterally if you clu the flag that you
said you were going off quarter,you would just be slaughtering the ship in
front of you. If if he'dasked for a quarter or a pardon,
he would have been given an opportunityto plead his case in the court.

(39:58):
And they did that. Mad asit may sound. They were taken to
Spanish Town in Jamaica to stand trial. Standard punishment for piracy you get hanged
hung. It's just that's what theydid. Piracy was the fate of piracy

(40:19):
was to be hung until dead.And I think probably a lot of them
understood that, Like I don't thinkit was a fear that they kept in
their mind whilst they were out pirating, because it was that was like fucking
live fast young mentality. Yeah yeah, And once they got there, ninety

(40:39):
nine percent of them, being themales, would have been just sentenced to
hang. The fate of these twowomen, however, was not exactly the
same because they both pleaded the belly, which is a wonderful term for saying
they were pregnant. No way.So in the court, the in court

(41:01):
and Spanish Town in Jamaica, theyboth pleaded to belly and they were both
pregnant by everything I can read aboutit over the last few days, and
they certainly were both pregnant, andCalico would have, I imagine, have
been the father. I'm not castingexpersions on these women, but that's where
Yeah, he was a busy man. He was fighting fights, drinking wine

(41:22):
and pregnanting two women. There's likea lot of effort. M. So
they were basically given stays of execution. They were basically said to them,
we shall wait until you're not pregnantand then we will hang you, which
you know, it's a definitive timeperiod that they would have to wait.
M probably come across cases you guysprobably have as well, where people is

(41:46):
certainly in Victorian London claimed to bepregnant and then they were inspected by a
doctor. And that horrifies me whatthat inspection may have entailed. Yeah,
that's right, that's rotten. Onthis case, their pregnancies were there.
Pleading of the belly was accepted andthey were locked up until they were no

(42:08):
longer pregnant. Mary was never hungas she never made it to the end
of her pregnancy. She died ofa fever in jail and is buried in
Stant Catherine's churchyard in Jamaica. Thereis no written record of her baby,
so I'm going to put it outthere that the resulting fever is either because

(42:29):
of a complicated birth or something thattook both their lives. Yeah, and
Bonnie managed to see out her stayof execution, and her fate is pretty
much unknown. We don't know whathappened to her. There's no record of
her being hanged. There is,however, a record of somebody living under
the same name dying in Jamaica inseventeen thirty three, so pure speculation and

(42:52):
guesswork says that her sentence was probablycommuted and she lived for another thirteen years,
thirteen years making her what we're sayingmid forties somewhere around about there when
she died in Jamaica, but wedon't know whether that was her because her

(43:15):
fate is unknown. I will finishthis by saying, this is what I
will absolutely always say is a storyrather than a case of true crime history,
because what we know about these womenis just literally was the partic pirate
articles and stories of people telling youwhat happened on these boats. I love

(43:38):
it, but I can't say toyou, I looked at the court records
from the old Bailey from whatever yearfor these ones and tell you what happened.
This is a story of piracy andthe story of two of the most
feared female pirates of all time.Brilliant. I love it, really,

(44:00):
well done you. That was awesome. Yeah, I just thought I thought
you guys would enjoy it. Isudadly thought you'd enjoy it. Cherry because
of its age and sex is alwayssomething that everybody gets on board with it.
But I imagine if that was,if that was definitely true, if
that was, if that was,she could have gone on and lived her
life as a man, and shecould be in history books as a man

(44:22):
and no one would know No,indeed, absolutely, if they didn't play,
Like if they didn't play a gameof Booby Snap on a boat,
we would never have known them.We would never have known Booby Snap might
be manu favorite game. However,you can introduce that to Crime Con next
year. I'm sure you'll get sometakers for that. One. Got to

(44:44):
get barred from crack on one ofthese days. Very good. There you
go, a story of piracy andfemale empowerment for you. Both very nice.
Thank you, Thank you well,Bob, As he said, I
have a case for you now,which is not nearly as long, quite

(45:05):
a little, but definitely interesting.Like I said, We're gonna play a
little game called who can go furtherback in time with their case. I
think I won this one, okay, easily. So I'm gonna start this
by going over a quick history oftrials by jury. All right, okay,

(45:29):
so the history of trials by juryhas had quite an interesting history in
England. Now, trial by jurybecame an explicit right in twelve fifteen when
King John signed a Magna Carta.An Article thirty nine of the Magna Carta,
he states, no freeman shall becaptured or imprisoned, or deceased of
his freehold, or of his liberties, or of his free customs, or

(45:52):
be outlawed or exiled, or inany way destroyed, Nor where would nor
will we proceed against him by orproceed against him by arms, but by
the lawful judgment of his peers,or by the laws of the land.
Obviously, King John did not understandthe concept of a run on sentence.

(46:13):
But here we are beautifully red,beautifully written, and beautifully read. Now
While this did set a president forthe right of trial by jury, this
was not the beginning of the jurysystem in England. In fact, by
the twelfth century, Henry the secondwould set up a system to resolve land

(46:34):
disputes using juries. A jury oftwelve freemen would be assigned to arbitrate in
these disputes. Now, unlike modernjuries, these men would be charged with
uncovering the facts of the case theirown, rather than listening to arguments in
court. So there wasn't like areal trial. You don't have you don't
lawyers presenting facts. They're going outand they're asking people what happened, and

(46:58):
then they're determining, you know,what's true and what's not not true.
I guess shit. Version of trialby medieval facebook. Yes, what did
you see? What did you see? What did you see? You're dead?
Exactly exactly now. In eleven seventynine, Henry the Second would also

(47:20):
introduce the grand disease, which isnow known as a grand jury. This
would allow jury of freemen to reportany crimes that they knew of in their
administrative districts to a judge who waswho moved between districts on a circuit hence
the circuit court. Right, Okay. Now, unfortunately for the person's accused

(47:40):
of accused by this type of jury, they would be given a trial by
ordeal and so a trial board bya deal. So you okay, So
easy way to describe it if wego back to Monty Python, right and
we talk about what was it?Was it life or was it was it

(48:02):
life or Brian? Which one wasit? Where they had trying someone,
if they were trying to decide ifsomeone was answered or guilty, and they
did it by they had to weighthemselves against ducks, right, So if
if if the ducks were heavier thanthey were, they were innocent. If
they were heavy the ducks, theywere guilty. Right, So that's what

(48:22):
that's what we're talking about, whichby trial by ordeal. So if I
were to if I were to putyou up on a bonfire and catch you
on fire, if you were tolive, then you were innocent obviously.
But if you were a die,obviously you're guilty. So we actually talked
about a version of this to twoor few weeks ago on an episode Valley

(48:43):
that's called a Few Witches. AnAlley rounded up a few different witch cases
which are probably not far off thetime put Oh no, it's probably a
few hundred years after the type podyou're talking about here. Yeah, yeah,
the child that's certainly that child podis famously if she thinks she's innocent
if she swims, yes, exactly, that that kind of most famous like

(49:07):
which is your absolutely fucked from,aren't you? Like? Yeah, definitely
try and save yourself. Then you'regoing to get killed anyway, so you
might as well just drowned. Nah. I came up with the idea a
couple of weeks ago swim like fuck, So as fast as you can just
go out and just just go fullwhat's his name, Mark Phillips, just

(49:28):
go full mark on him. Yeah. Yeah. You think about this,
like the whole witch trial, whichcurred what sixteen hundreds, so we're talking
five hundred years later. They're you'restill using the same concept to de turn
if someone's innocent or guilty five hundredyears and they hadn't figured out Wait,
this doesn't make any sense, ButI'm not sticking up from them here.

(49:53):
But the advancement in criminal investigation oranything in that that five hundred year period
between the kind of reformation of thechurches up to the Witches Acts was unnecessary
because the state was in control.So it was almost as if they weren't
actually trying to make things better.Now I'm very generalizing here, Yeah,

(50:17):
because they didn't need to. Itwas the church or the state said this,
and that's what happened. It wasonly after the kind of introduction of
even even fuck it, even includingthe sixteen early seventeen hundreds technology science moving
on, that they go, well, hang on, we can think about
this just rather than having the churchsay, can the swim Nah, that's

(50:40):
a shame. Insane, it's insane. It's insane. Now. The practice
of juries independently uncovering caith fact canbe traced back to the Leo Code of
Wantage, which was enacted by Kingethel Red the Unready in ninety seven.
Okay, I'm ready, I'm ready. I love that ethel Ready Unready a

(51:06):
really good name. Is it?Like you want to be like, I
don't know, Peter the Destroyer orsomething. You don't want to be the
Unready sounds so crap. Ethel readthe ship had a fund of power though,
Oh yeah absolutely. He was like, I might be unready, but
fuck you, I got all thepower may be ready for ship to watch

(51:30):
this. Mouckers. Now in thewhat I'll go ahead, Bob, I
was gonna say, welcome to tryingto do a podcast with me. I'm
really sorry about this, but Alifaces this challenge every week now. In
the Wantage Your Code, King ethelRead is credited with establishing the custom of

(51:53):
gathering a local investigative body consisting oftwelve minor nobles. They're responsible was to
publicly identify any notorious or wicked individualswithin their respected districts. Rather than introducing
an entirely new custom, it isbelieved that Ethelred may have been expanding upon
an existing practice already in use amongDanish residents in the Dane law. Okay,

(52:19):
so in these so in the exchangedtowns across England, it was customary
to have twelve hereditary law men asprincipal officers. These officers would preside over
legal arguments during tribal assemblies known asthings, and rendered judgments on these disputes.
It's amazing that there's still the hangovertoday of there's still twelve men or

(52:40):
whatever. Yeah, that's right.Yeah, it's interesting, like what made
someone decide we're gonna go twelve,Like, what is what's special about twelve?
What's the fucking point in having aneven number one? It's just all
if you have six and six,will you have a split you have a

(53:00):
split jury, right, I meanI know now it's like you need to
have twelve guilty versus twelve innocents,you know, to get conviction whatnot.
But it was just jury's death matchto see who wins exactly. And if
you have twelve against you know,twelve, well six and six, what
what do you do if six ayes, and sixth and they say no,
well, you probably still fight,you know, find the personct you
fight, Yeah, exactly if youBut here's the thing. If you added

(53:23):
one more person or took away onemore person, you're not And you're never
going to have a split jury either, gonna be Yeah, most people,
more people think you're guilty or morepeople canna think you're innocent. I mean,
let's be honest. And then thesetimes, I'm sure most of the
people that go on trial in frontof these juries are going to be found
guilty. Yeah, and it's it'snot it's not case I'll dwell on a

(53:46):
lot, but they certainly the biggestcase that has gone through the Criminal Coach
in the UK in the last fewwhiles. Then Lucy LETVI case, and
I won't go back too much becauseI've never wanted to scream so much at
anything in my life. But theyactually what They lost one of the jurors
before the end, and I don'tactually know why it was, but I've

(54:08):
been listening to the podcast about itand just the interactions with what the jury
have to do in a trial isjust insane. And then they went away
and came back with a not anot problem because you're going to get an
English course, but they certainly couldn'tcome to an agreement in a majority on
some of the charges she was facing. But any end, it doesn't matter

(54:29):
because she'll never see the last dayand that's absolutely fine. But I just
finds what's the tipping point between thetime period you're talking about matter with twelve
jurors going, did they have toall agree or was it just like eight
verses four? Whereas now I thinkit's pretty much correct me. If I'm
wrong, please do but I thinkit's everybody has to agree on a charge,

(54:51):
yes, yeah one in the Uniteddays, yes, So if you
have eleven guilties, one innocent.It's a hundred. It's a hun trial,
right, hung jury, and thecase is the case is over and
has to be retried. It's fuckingmad, don't it. M M yeah,
yeah, I mean, I'm notgoing to question the court systems.

(55:13):
We've always said this. I'm notI'm not here. I'm here to tell
you a story. I don't knowa huge amount about the law other than
what we read about. But tome, if if eleven people say yep
and one person says nope, youwould tend to lean that way. But
then I suppose, and I genuinelyam thinking out loud here, miscaragers has
just as happened, Maybe that oneperson, Maybe that one person's right.

(55:36):
Yeah, sorry, I'm just interjecting. Perfect. It's difficult. It's very
difficult, isn't it. I wouldnot want to have been on that jury.
I would not want to have beenon that Lucy let Be jury.
No way, that would have beenphysically second more stays, I agree,
that would have been an horrific,horrific jury to be on. But yeah,

(55:59):
I don't. I agree with you. The same strange how they picked
twelve you know, twelve minute.I wonder if it's probably all men back
then. Yep, yeah, theypicked twelve men. I wonder if there
was something to do with like thecounties of are of like England, maybe
there was twelve counties and that's theyneeded a representative from every area. It
will be something weird like that.Yeah, that's a good point. Actually

(56:21):
it could have been goodn't it.Or it's just Someboday's gone, We've got
twelve everyone bring a chair, andonly brought twelve. So they're like,
right, that's it, it's justtwelve of us. Let's go. You
can't have that many technic sets.Let's be honest. It was the Danes
that like brought you know, broughtus over to the aisle, so obviously
has to be something ridiculous, right, Yeah, we're not casting a squis,

(56:44):
thank you, not at all lovethe Danes. Yeah. So this
is the part of the of thestory that I'm going to make an odd
pivot and you're going to question whatthe hell am I talking about it.
I do it every in northern everyweek in Northern England. So in northern

(57:07):
England, on the border of Wales, sits the cathedral city of Chester Chester
was founded in eighty seventy nine asa Roman fortress during the reign of Emperor
Vespasian. Now, after the fortresswas abandoned by the Romans in ten the
Roman British civilian settlement would continue onand would become a very state strategic fortified

(57:30):
city for the Anglo Saxons. Now, one of the things that Chester is
now known for is the Chester raceCourse, also known as the Rudy,
which is recognized as the oldest racecourse still in operation. Now, if
you were to visit the race coursetoday, you would see a raised mound
decorated by a small cross known asa rude located towards the middle of the

(57:52):
field inside the track. Now,Cherry and Bobby, you might be asking
yourselves, what does any of thishave to do with jury trials? Well,
my friend fucking enjoying it, let'sgo, you're about to find out,
all right. So in the yearninety six, all right, eighty

(58:15):
nine forty six, during the sixthyear of Conan's reign, King of North
or North Wales. So let mesay it again. First off, anyone
that is King Conan automatically one ofthe best kings ever. Right, it
has to be what a badass name, King Conan. Yeah, it's definitely
better than Ethel read the unready.My money's on tone and every time.

(58:40):
If you had to be a king, what's your name going to be?
I like his first name Ethel,Ethel whatever it was called Ethel's Wait or
whatever. It was cool. That'squite a cool name. I just want
to be like Ethel Wait the destroyeror something that's better. So is it?
Am? I? Am? Icorrect? So? In in when
when a king and or queen iscrowned, they can take on could they

(59:04):
take on a name? Yeah,they can choose it. They can choose
a name, can't they They can't. It's not quite like the pope.
Yeah, coming and they can justchoose pretty much whatever. There are like
those royal names. This is whywe've had somebody Henry's and Richards and Edwards
and George and yeah yeah. Andthey tend to be that, I hate

(59:28):
to say the word, like strongEnglish lineage names. They're not going to
be like Harrison or car. You'renot getting King Bob. No, no
King Bob, no King Harry.If I had to be, though,
I'd be King Bob the sellar dwellerthat is brilliant. I love it.

(59:59):
Now, in the village of Harden, there was a Christian temple Okay,
at the time, Harden was governedby a nobleman named Now, I apologize
if I get this name wrong,but let's be quite honest. Anglo Saxon
names are absolutely ridiculous, all right. So a no woman by the name
of STI still syt s y lht. I'm gonna say STI still Okay,

(01:00:27):
yep, I'll go with us.So he was governing this village of
Harden, and he was married toa woman named Lady Trost Okay. Now,
in the summer of ninety six,it proved to be an exceptionally dry
summer, leaving no grass for thecattle and causing great distress among the villagers
of Harden. Now, in theirdesperation, the villagers turned to prayers at

(01:00:52):
the Christian temple, where a largecross held in the hands of the Virgin
Mary adorned the rude law, whichwas known as the Holy Rude. Now,
the prayers thought God's intervention and providingmuch needed rainfall, but no rain
came in the drought persisted. Nowwe have a curified holy root. You

(01:01:15):
do there's a Church of the HolyRoot that is literally three hundred yards from
where I'm stood right now. Wonderfullywhat I'm what's happening next week with the
podcast recording, because at least notback is one of the tour guides at
the Church of the Holy Root isa regular in the settle, and she's

(01:01:38):
going to come on the podcasters andtell us all about the history of the
Church of the Holy Root. Ohthat would be amazing. Hellok forward to
listen to that so very much.I know nothing, So I'm very much
looking forward to you telling what HolyRood is. Yeah, okay, well
here easy, this is this iswhat I Root is. So Root is
actually a crucifix, okay, andthe it's typically located a like up above

(01:02:07):
where churches don't do this anymore,but they used to have a screen like
a screen in churches between like parishionersand the holy men, and that was
called a rude screen. Okay,so they so then they so then the
crucifix that was above this up inthe loft would be a rude So the

(01:02:28):
Holy Rude is just a holy crucifix. Okay, long story short, No,
that's fine, right, it can'tputably make sense. But why there,
I'm sure I'm sure that she's Yeah, it's gonna so I'm sure she's
gonna tell it much better than Iam. What a whole why it's holy
Rude? But do you go oh, I doubt it? Now. Being

(01:02:53):
undeterred by the lack of response byby God, Lady Trost persisted in her
prayers for rain at the temple.However, one fateful day, tragedy struck
as the Holy Rude fell from theloft, striking her on the head and
causing her immediate death. Now,Lady Trost untommy death sent shock waves through

(01:03:16):
the villager Harden, leaving its residentsdetermined to seek justice. All right,
so she was killed by a fallingcross, Yes, yes, so she
was praying the cross fell head onahead and killed her. Yes. And
so instead of thinking, oh man, this is really this is just a

(01:03:37):
sad tragedy, such a terrible accident, the villagers were like, no,
we gotta find justice, justice forLady Trost, right from whom. Well,
you're going to say that's an actof God truly, Like if you're
going to use that term, yeah, so you who are you chasing for

(01:04:01):
redemption for that. So the villagersin Harding determined that it was would be
the Holy Root itself that would standtrial for the murder a lady trust the
actual cross or the mouth the actualcross stand trial for the murder. Lady

(01:04:23):
trust. Yes, you might havestumbled on the weirdest on trial case I've
ever heard of, because Alice talkedabout animals, animals on trial. Alice
talked about rats being on trial andlocust spin on trial, and I thought
that was batshit. But you've you'vegone full like and just you've got full

(01:04:45):
alley tonight, Shall I get readywit tonight? Here? But here we
are. Now what's interesting is ajury would be convened from the community which
comprised of guess how my people,twelve twelve people, And I will tell

(01:05:06):
you the names of these jurors,like this has to be like the most
like colorfully named group of jurors.Okay, So included the jury comprised of
Hincott of Handcott. Okay, thespan of Mancott, Leech and Leech,
Incumber, Beach, Pete and Petewith Corbin of the Gate, milling In,

(01:05:30):
Hewett with gil and Pewett. Nope, you just told me, all
right, that's not that's not realpeople. That's the start of the stale
Hincot of Handcott, the span ofMancott, Leech and Leech, Incumber Beach,
Pete and Pete, with the corbinof the gate milling in Hewett and

(01:05:53):
with Gil and Pewett. Amazing,I love amazing. Could you imagine like
the guy that's like, Okay,I gotta find twelve people for this jury,
and he's like, you know whatthey're gonna Their names are gonna rhyme,
and people are like, what thefuck is this? Like watch pick
Hewitt because because it rhymes with Hewett. Duh, because we've got hut already.

(01:06:15):
So I need a pet because withoutit it is stupid obviously interesting,
he doesn't listen back now. Aftera thorough examination of all the evidence,
the jury reached a verdict of guiltyfor the Holy Rude, convicting it of

(01:06:42):
murder. Set it on fire,now, pining a cross cherry now,
hey, come on now. Additionally, they found the cross culpable for not
answering the many petitioners, presumably notgranting the much needed rain despite the desperate
please of the villagers. It's gotso many rhyming like truths is a weird

(01:07:08):
sentence there, but it's because somany running truths. And Ali was talking
about the animals. There were signsdrop all over the town calling the locusts
or whatever it was, to thecourt, and they didn't appear. So
they were in breach. And you'relike, what and what part of your
mind is a general human? Canyou go that Cross is guilty? Yeah?

(01:07:32):
Obviously, questions Cross, Why tellme your truth? Oh? My
god, wouldn't it be amazing ifthat's where we got the term cross examination?
Oh? It would it? Really? Fuck? I'm calling it.
That's where we get it from.Okay, So Holy Rood, where were

(01:07:53):
you on this summer day? Andwould it have to right? I think
it would because I think everything hadto rhyme back then. So now I
want I want to challenge you.What would it say in its right?
Oh, Jesus Christ at once witha man from Nantucket. Oh no,
no, no key. Now.Obviously, the decision to find the Cross

(01:08:21):
the Holy Rude guilty led to significantdebate regarding the appropriate punishment for these crimes.
Now, originally the plan was tohang the Rude, but the span
of mont Mancott opposes penalty, arguingthat would be much more fitting to drown
the Rude in the River d giventhe urgent need for rain. Yeah,

(01:08:44):
this proposal, oh obviously you knowyou're you're throwing the river then a half
to rain. Now this proposed recently. We need the rain, so what
should we do the Holy Rude?Throw it in? Now this will face
opposition from Corbyn of the Gate becausea because he was a dick, and
b he believed that they had noright to take its life. Let me

(01:09:09):
say that again, Corbyn, theGate believed that they had no right to
take its life. Seriously, Ithink they were rulling drugs back then.
They were rull inhaling something they shouldn'thave done. They had to. This
is Absolin saying right, it wasa good time. So obviously spanning man

(01:09:33):
casts like, all right, Corbyn, what's your suggestion? Corbyn suggested that
the Rude be left on the sandsof the River D below harden Castle,
effectively leaving it fate to God's will. Now, obviously what happens is the
tide of the River d comes in. It carries the Holy Rood into its

(01:09:53):
waters, eventually depositing it downstream wherewere discovered in Chester. Dead and draft
sound absolutely yeah. So honestly,there's you know, there's no propulse.
It's probably a little bloated the competitionsgoing on. No, obviously it's dead

(01:10:15):
because in the water had to drown. Now the serious is a Chester chose
to bury the Holy Rood near thelocation where it was found and erected a
monument with the following inscription mm hm. The Jews, the Jews God just

(01:10:36):
crucified the Jews, their god didcrucify the hardeners. Theirs did drown because
with their wants she not comply andlies under this cold stone. Fucking Chester

(01:10:56):
people, you had you were doinggood and then you fucked up that whole
rhyme. It's not that hard toget it right. Okay. Look,
the Jews their God did crucify theHardeners. Theirs did drown cause with their
wants she did not comply and liesunder this cold ground. Jesus Christ,

(01:11:17):
come on, Chester Chester, comeon. That's why we call you the
modern podcast. Rappier. Now,Now, Cherry and Bob, if you
were to go today to the Chesterrace Course, the warden weather remains of

(01:11:42):
a cross can be found within it. Now this cross is said to mark
the actual burial place of the HolyRood of Harden. And since this has
to be true and not some madeup legend, that is how the Chester
Race Course got its name and isthe very first recorded jury trial on the
Aisle of Britain. That is brilliant, very much enjoyed. A huge amount

(01:12:12):
of madness involved in that madest maddestpart is the fact that they've put a
cross up to Comory Across. Ireally wonder if that inscription is still in
Chester somewhere. I wonder if anybody'slistening from Chester, please do hit us

(01:12:35):
on either the crime Pedia or theTwisted Brain socials and tell us and if
you can get photods like the inscription, that'd be mad Like, we'd love
to see that. I am notsuggesting that you cause any sort of vandalism
to the inscription if it's there,but take leave a piece of paper with

(01:12:56):
just like pix last line posted notelies under this cold ground. Yeah,
oh my god, they were soclose. How frustrating is that? Like
you're like, man, this isreally fun. It feels good now,
absolutely drive him nuts. I feellike that's annoying you way more than Cherry.

(01:13:17):
He's not going to be happy aboutthis, and surprise, he hasn't
booked to float over to come andfix it himself, to be fair,
but if you paid three dollars amonth on crime might be able to That's
correct, that's do you know whatwe talked about recording a while ago,
Morgan didn't we and we were goingto get you on a night with me

(01:13:40):
and Ali and yourself and and Jerry. Obviously, if you were available,
you're more than welcome to join us, But it was because of this story
you wanted to tell Ali specifically.Yeah, I appreciate you coming on and
telling is it when Ali wasn't here, But you've won up him massively on
mad ship that's been tried. He'sgonna love it. No, I'm also

(01:14:02):
going to allow you to win thatyou went back your further in history case.
I'm not giving you Chester's founding asyou're starting it. You can have
a nine hundred. That's fine,okay, all right? Six is literally
another world? Oh god? Yeah, yeah, I mean it's such another

(01:14:25):
world that they thought that trying acouple of bits of would in a shape
for murder was okay, yeah,yeah. And the fact that they didn't.
They didn't just dub it a suicide, because it quite clearly did just
throw itself off the wall. That'sa very good or just I'm going with
a lemony snicket just as soon exactly. No, I will say that the

(01:14:47):
reason that I even looked up thestory and know the story was actually because
of crime con last year. SoI have a I have a sister that
lives up in Bolton with her husbandand kids, and we we actually went
to Chester and we're just kind ofwalking around and we walked past the race
course and me and my brother inlaw we saw the cross like in the

(01:15:08):
distance and we're like, what thehell is that? And we're so confused
of why there was this random crossin the middle of this race course,
and so obviously being me, Itold him like, Okay, I'm going
to find out what that's all about. And the best decision I've ever made
in my life, like was lookingat up reading about it and like finding

(01:15:28):
the story because the story is amazing. Oh, thank you very much for
taking the time to sell Zone Twistedbusiness very very much and it fits so
beautifully with what we do. It'sjust it's wonderful. Yeah, that was
two good fun stories. I hopeJelly you've enjoyed just listening to him and
Night talking Chip for a couple forabout hour. I have. It's been

(01:15:53):
brilliant, Thank you very much.So I've thoroughly enjoyed it. I can't
thank both of you enough for comingon and joining on the podcast. It's
been an absolute pleasure of talking toyou both. We're going to sign off
this podcast and then continue to havea chat briefly while I show you around
the pub. It's a lot quieternow than it was. I'm actually out

(01:16:13):
in the pub just pasting about talkingto you now. I'm very much this
is the best way I've ever podcast, to be honest. Anyway, I've
rambled enough shite for this evening,and you two have been wonderful. If
you don't follow Crimepedia already, whatthe fuck are you doing with your life
to fix that? Find them onwhatever podcast that age that you use and
subscribe. If you listen to thisand you're not following Twisted Britain, god

(01:16:39):
knows how you found us, butthanks for being here. Follows all the
social media, all that normal nonsense, Facebook, Givestagram, Twitter, I'STI
Twitter, anymore. It's X,isn't it? And freends is a thing
apparently, fuck it. Find meon my Space, I don't care.
You can find me ally by lookingup to Twister Britton, and they can

(01:17:00):
find you guys by looking for Climpediaright ay, anything else you guys want
to say this season? Oh no, but I want to do. They
love you bye, well we'll leaveyou then as always, thank you,
love you, bye, love you, bye love you, bye, thank

(01:17:27):
y you bye. I can hearmeself. Whoo wo woot woot