Episode 97 -William starchfield

This week on Twisted Britain Ali tells us of the very sad murder of 5 year old William Starchfield, whoes body was found on a London train in 1914, but not only do ŵ look at this case but we introduce the first ever Metasode, a podcast with in a podcast

Episode Transcript

(00:32):
Hello, and welcome to Twist toBritain, a podcast on true crime in
Britain with a sprinkling of the weirdin the cab and your host Sammy Bubbdale
and me Ali Downey. Good evening, Ali Downey, Good evening, Bob
Dale, how are you, sir? Fabulous? Have you had a wonderful
day. I've had a wonderful day. I saw you drinking whiskey it to
o'clock this afternoon. That was yeah? Was doing that? Is that what's
counting his research these days? Yeah? I also noticed there was a Japanese

(00:53):
whisky you were drinking. It wasIt was delicious. It was yakatri.
I'm not quite sure how you preceit. I think it's is it so
yakaty sr yakatory or something like that. It's quite a nice whiskey though.
It was a delicious whiskey, butit didn't taste like a whiskey's. Yeah,
it's a bit. It was verybrandy. It was a lovely experience.

(01:14):
Nice, but I don't know ifI would classic as a whiskey.
Were at a couple of other niceJapanese ones, which I would that particular
one, I would say it wasmore closer to a brandy, but it
was still nice. It wasn't sobrandish that I didn't like it. Thank
you very much for listening to Ali'sreview of WHISKEYSR. We don't even know
which one though. We don't knowwhich one, but it was yummy.

(01:34):
We tried it at the Whiskey Festivalthat a bunch of the pub quizzards and
I went down to in London andit was lovely. Very much enjoyed it.
Yeah, so that's probably enough aboutit, kay? How you doing
fabulous? Your turn this week?It is my turn this week, and
I have a mammoth episode for you. I'm strapped in and ready to go.

(01:56):
We are going to have to rerecord my episode from last week,
yes, because it is this loudin the background. That's not that loud.
I've turned it down a bit,all right, So I thought we
would do people the honors re recordingthat one because it's actually a good story.
Yes, you enjoyed it, sowe'll do it again. But do
you this evening have a case forme that I have never even seen the

(02:20):
name of. No, you've neverseen an it. You know nothing,
I know nothing. You're going intothis completely blind. I love it.
Let's nice. I can't know becauseI'll end up pouring my pint down my
front if I do that. Absolutelyright. But yeah, this week's case
is going to take us to England, not that far, not that far
British this week I mean, thankyou. Yeah, I thought you'd appreciate
that. England London to be specific. No, no, no, no,

(02:46):
go back to London. And alsoit's going to take us to the
early twentieth century. Nineteen fourteen,A very new one for you, Alistair,
It is quite new. The beginningof nineteen fourteen, the eighth of
January was a cold morning across thecountry, as the nation was in the
groups of a freezing winter. Agood winter. Yeah, all of the

(03:06):
ski runs would have been open,all the ski runs would have opened.
Yeah, you'd have been loving it, absolutely love winter. London was not
loving. They don't love winter.They hate winter. One one flake close
England. Yeah, pretty much.It's good. On the tracks of the
London Railway network, engineers strove tokeep the lines unfrozen and unblocked by the
relentless snow. Well a big brush, massive brushes on the end of trains

(03:30):
that it was actually like a likea draft excluder on a door. That
is one of the things they did. Yeah. Nice. Meanwhile, more
workers swarmed like ants all over theengines to keep them running. I'm using
a slight bit of poetic license.I'm enjoying it. Character right, England,
do just close down at the merestwip of ice. Let's not alienate
most of our listeners. We loveEngland, just not the reaction to snow.

(03:53):
No One train, though, whichhad already been working since the early
hours of the day and hadn't shutdown was the North London Railway Chalk Farm
Station to broad Street train, whichwas a single line train which just zipped
along the one track and at everysingle station you got on one side and
off the other side at every stop. Okay, yeah, the simplest use

(04:16):
of a train line. Yeah,and it just is it back and forward.
I like it. By the timeof the four to fourteen pm train
from Chalk Farm station, the trainwould have made roughly half hour journey okay,
about maybe twenty times that day already, so it's half an hour from
one end of the line to theother. Yeah, roughly okay. However,

(04:38):
the four to fourteen train would reveala ghastly and sad crime. Oh
we've gone British and crime early here, Al, I'm proud of you.
Thanks. Crime isn't coming. Crimeis boom here. There's double crime in
this one, double maybe triple orquadruple. Because it's so much crime in
this Episode't make promises, you're notgonna keep Passtill, let's go with this
crime. Okay, this crime,well, there's so much crime. Approximately

(04:59):
four to twenty nine, the trainarrived at Maiden Lane station, where a
young man called Robert Stillwell, whoworked as a messenger, boarded the third
class carriage. Okay, he verylikely heard something much like this before getting
on the train. Here is asecurity announcement. Please do not leave luggage
unattended anywhere on the station. Anyunattended luggage will be removed without warning and

(05:26):
maybe destroyed. I love the factthat my inability to be bothered to plug
in the sound desk to my laptopand delete that has come in useful at
least two or three times there,And you're so happy when it brings me
great joy. To see how muchjoy it brings me, I was poised
with my finger anyway. The traincontinued along the line with Robert Stillwell aboard,

(05:46):
calling at Caledonian Road, Highbury andCannonbury stations. Okay, passengers boarded
one side of the carriage as Isaid, and exited the other side at
each stop, but not too manythis early in trains journey. It wouldn't
become busy until farther along the line. It builds up as it picks up.
Yeah, everyone who was out thatcold day, I eat. All

(06:08):
the few passengers that actually wear werealso wrapped up in coats and hats and
mittens as some flimsy attempt fight againstthe cold. You say that, like
you go out your shorts and tshirt. Yeah, baby, in the
winter, I laugh at the coldfrom inside, from inside, next to
the fire with a hot chocolate.This would mean, though that most everyone

(06:32):
was later described as androgynists, sortof piles of winter clothing. Oh yeah,
I suppose you're not. You're notdoing an easy photo fit for somebody
when they all look the same.You're seeing trench coat hat mittens for everyone.
Yeah. Anyway, After Midway Parkstation, Robert Stillwell became quite unwell

(06:53):
when he noticed what he was surewas a child's hand sticking out from below
the seat in front of him.Oh, dear, would Indeed, I
was going to make a joke aboutstill Well not being well, but then
you said child's hand, and Ithought about it or not, and yeah,
all jokes stop out of the window. Robert Stillwell was, as I
mentioned, working as a messenger,which was a poorly paid job, almost

(07:15):
always done by the young. Ican't find his exact age, but he
would probably have been in his earlyteens most likely. I was gonna say,
like eleven through fourteen, that canI age? Yeah, yeah,
kids were working early, as we'llsee later. Upon seeing what was a
child's hand sticking out from under theseat in front of him, still Well
became quite upset and scared. Understandably, Yeah fair. There were still a

(07:38):
few other suspicious trench coat wearing passengerson the carriage, and the train conductor
had already gone through, so hewas unlikely to come back down the train
anytime soon. Yes, so there'sno backup coming, exactly, there's no
backup coming. So Robert still Wellwaited until the train reached the next stop
without informing anyone. The next stopwas Shoreditch. As the train pulled up

(08:01):
to the station as soon as thedoors opened, Robert Stillwell leapt out and
ran across the platform to the stationmaster's office, where he hurriedly told the
station manager what he'd seen. Soat this point, he's seen a hand
under it, hand under a seat, and I'm presuming by his reaction a
very limp. Oh yeah, deadhand, dead hand, dead hand.
Okay. The station manager, onhearing Stillwell's story, immediately stopped the train

(08:26):
before he even left the station,and he also informed the authorities of the
very probable situation. There's a deadhand, there's a dead hand. The
police would be on the scene quickly, and they would immediately confirm Stillwell's fear
when they found the body of afive or six year old boy stuffed under
the seat in front of where he'dbeen sitting. I'm really not all right

(08:48):
with the start of this story.Al It's no, it's not it's no.
It's not a happy story. It'snot a happy happy stories, None
of them are. The corpse ofthe child was healthy, with long curls
of golden blonde hair, except forthe blood on his lips and around his
mouth, suggesting strangulation, and alsothe marks on his neck, which looked
like those left by a thin cord. The boy had been well fed and

(09:11):
fit. Okay, good, Nope, bad okay. His face was also
bruised, consistent with being restrained bysomebody far stronger than he was. This
would have been lighter bruising around thejaw and on the side of the head,
which could have been caused by thehands of a grown man. I'm
gonna go where they were. Theycertainly were. Investigations obviously began immediately in

(09:35):
a French word. I don't knowwhy. The remaining passengers who hadn't been
allowed to leave were interviewed, andthey were quickly eliminated as suspects, but
nor was any of their testimony particularlyuseful. Most of them just remembered nondescript
people in thick winter clothing getting onand off the train, but little more.
Yeah, because, as you say, the ability to say somebody's wearing

(09:56):
a fancy T shirt or something iscompletely removed the weather going on outside,
and I suppose everybody's probably walking aweave, hunched up for the cold,
and like, yeah, and Isee what you mean, like an almost
well androgen. This is the bestway to put it in. Like you
said earlier, I was gonna gowith like clone like almost you know.

(10:16):
Now, there was a cleaner atChalk Farm station, Okay, a train
cleaner. He cleaned the carriage atthree point thirty six pm. Had he
seen anything, He was sure thebody could not have been there when he
cleaned the carriage. He was positivehe would have noticed a dead body,
you would hope. So. Sohe wasn't working for scott Rail obviously,

(10:39):
other's got other chains, noether ornot. That's the only chain service.
Yeah, yeah, he would havenoticed the body of a young boy as
he was picking up the empty McDonald'sbags and presumably half drunk bottles of Lambrini
off the carriage floor. Lambrini isa strong choice in that moment there,
Well done. Thanks, So we'vegot a time frame, Yeah, we
have a time now. That leftabout an hour during which the body could

(11:03):
have been dumped under the seat onthe train, more than a dozen stations
at which anybody could have easily goton and then gotten off at the next
station, after leaving the neglected bodyof a five or six year old boy
behind them. Very grim sentence.Yep, it's not a happy one this
week now. That was very muchwhat the police initially believed happened that the

(11:24):
young boy was killed somewhere else completelybefore being brought to the train for disposal.
I was going to ask you thatthere, just like how I presume
the weather basis would have meant itwas quieter than normal the train. Probably,
yes, So there's every possibility itcould have happened on the train,
every possibility, every likelihood. Willsee later. An autopsy, which was

(11:48):
quickly carried out, concluded that thevictim had died within two hours of the
body's discovery, at roughly four fortypm, so that ties in with a
cleaner exactly. It was a doctorSpillsbury who examined the body. Good names
this week, not bad. Afterthat, the body was taken by the
authorities to Old Street Police station toawait identification. I can't even place this

(12:11):
part of London that you're talking about, if I'm being honest. I've recognized
the word Highbray next to Camden.Okay, fine, I can place that
now, thank you. Anyway,Well, this was going on, a
young boy had coincidentally gone missing fromthe nearby Hampstead Road area. Was that
a small boy with golden locks andwell fed. William's Starchfield was a young

(12:33):
golden haired boy who lived with hismother and their landlady at one hundred and
ninety one Hampstead Road. He wasfive years old in nineteen fourteen. His
father lived separately and took little,if anything, to do with the small
family. William's mother was poor butnot starving, living mostly off of church
handouts and a possible one pound aweek from her mildly estranged husband. Okay,

(12:56):
on the afternoon of Thursday, theeighth of January, before William went
missing, the landlady of one nineone Hampstead Road and missus Longstaff had sent
him on a number of errands.Fucking honestly, Like I have a six
ye old I can't imagine sending himon errands. Oh yeah, and these
aren't these aren't small errands either,first to the Baker's or some bread.

(13:18):
Yeah, and next, after Williamhad returned from the Baker's to the stationers
at one hundred and forty seven HampsteadRoad to obtain an advertising card for an
empty room at one nine to one. Okay, so they were putting a
room up for right, Yeah,exactly. Yeah, that baffles me.
I could maybe send Isaac to theBaker's to get bread if it was on

(13:41):
the same street. Yeah, Imean he'd probably say no, one,
can I play more Pokemon on theswitch? But that's my bad parenting.
Well done, Bob, Thanks man, pat yourself on the back for the
listeners. Bob was patting himself onthe back. However, the clerk at

(14:03):
the Stationers was unsure if the advertisementthat Missus Longstaff wanted was for a furnished
or an unfurnished room, and thatmade a difference as to what he gave
them exactly, so he sent Williamback with two preview ad cards. Okay,
missus Longstaff now sent that, probablyby this point quite tired, William
first field back to the Stationers withthe more specific instructions that it was an

(14:26):
unfurnished household room. To right,the boy's been back forward then, yes,
he's been around now. After halfan hour, Missus Longstaff began to
worry when William didn't return from thesecond from the third errand Baker Stationer.
Second trip to Stationer, but hissecond trip out of the house exactly.

(14:48):
It was only about twenty doors downto the stationers, and William had returned
promptly. The previous time. Afteran hour, missus Longstaff put on her
coat and traced Williams would be rooted. She spoke to the baker and to
the clerk at the stationers, misterChapman, who told her that William had
not come back to the shop afterhis first visit, so he'd never made

(15:09):
it back to the stationers. Nevermade it back to the stationers the second
time. Do we know what kindof time this was at? This would
have been about two so after lunch, after lunch, not that long before
the cleaner's been on the train exactly, Okay. Missus Longstaff was becoming more
concerned by the minute, and shehurried home to one nine one Hampstead Road

(15:33):
in case William had returned there.Fair. Yeah. She got back there
around three pm, just in timefor the return of Missus Starchfield, William's
mother. She had been out lookingfor work all day, right, she
was an out of work seamstress.When William's mother returned and was informed that

(15:54):
her only son was missing, shewas understandably upset. Yeah. Yeah,
every parents were nightmare. Yeah.And since she had already lost to older
sons in the past five years tonatural causes, she was in fact rightfully
frantic she'd be in bits Man.Yeah. Yeah. The two women began
an anxious search of the area,including reporting the incident to the police.

(16:15):
Initially, officers who spoke to MissusStarchfield and Missus Longstaff tried to stop the
women from thinking the worst. HampsteadRoad was after all a very busy and
will use their affair. There werepeople walking the pavements virtually twenty four hours.
It seemed unlikely that a young childcould be abducted in broad daylight without
somebody noticing something. Fair point.But also it's a busy area, and

(16:37):
I don't know if I think Iwould probably worry more if it's a busy
area, as counterintuitive as that maybe, Yes, I think a busy
area is probably a place where you'dgo there's more opportunity to snatch, rather
than he's more likely to have beenseen snatched, if you know what I
mean. I agree, but thisis certainly a much more I mean,

(17:00):
it's one hundred and twenty years ago, but it's a much more lax time
in that regard. Yeah, theywere happy to send their five year olds
out stationers. However, as timepassed and word circulated through the force about
the body of the young boy foundon the train. The police rapidly changed
tact with the two women and theytook a more prepare for the worst stance,

(17:22):
as Missus Starchfield was taken early thatevening to identify the body of her
son lying at Old Street Police station. Right, so they'd have been investigating
a missing boy and then a boygets found and they can put two and
two together. Yeah. Missus Starchfieldwas interviewed by officers. They learned that
she was separated from her husband,John Starkfield, after unemployment and the death

(17:47):
of their first two sons put toomuch strain on their marriage. He lived
in a boarding house in Hanover Court. Instant suspect. Instant suspect. Of
course, she'd lived alone with herremaining son, William, at one nine
one Hampstead Road, for over sixmonths, and although she lived below the
breadline, she was a carrying anddevoted mother. So they didn't suspect her.

(18:10):
They were just questioning her. No, they didn't suspect her. They
were just questioning her. Okay,very early on the morning of Friday,
the ninth of January. We're talking, you know, half past twelve in
the morning, just after midnight halfas well, just after midnight, half
past twelve. Obviously that's the morning, but yeah, okay. Inspector Goff
went to the boarding house where misterStarchfield now lived. He was shown to

(18:33):
mister Starchfield' store, where he knockedpolitely. When John Starchfield answered, Inspector
Goff explained that John would have tocome down to the police station with him
right now, this very minute,this very minute. John went willingly,
if a little bewilderedly, it's probablybeen woken with Inspector Goff. As soon
as he arrived at Bow Street policestation, he was questioned about the movements

(18:56):
and it's whereabouts the previous day.John Starchfield told the police that he slept
until almost three pm before getting upand going to his newspaper seller's pitch at
Tottenham Court Road station. Right oncehe was there, he sold his papers
like he always does every single day. Many other newspaper sellers could corroborate this

(19:17):
if needed. Also, he stoppedon the way for a coffee from presumably
nineteen fourteen Starbucks a costa yeah maybe. When he was casually asked when the
last time he'd seen his son,was he replied, at least three weeks
ago? Now okay, so hewas properly estranged. He was, Yeah,
nothing to do with the family,now okay. The officers now kindly

(19:38):
wrote the news to John that hislast remaining son was also dead. Shit.
Probably quite upset. John Starchfield leftboth street police stationed at around twelve
fifty. It wasn't it that longthen, No, Missus Starchfield and this
is long staff would also be broughtin that day to give formal statements.

(20:00):
Was he like, I don't knowhow to frame this because they upsetness is
that you can't gauge it. Butwas when when John left? Was he
like in bits or was he going, oh my god, I just the
reason I asked, is I findthat out to get He seemed upset?

(20:21):
He seemed upset. Yeah, AndI suppose if he didn't have an engagement
with the family, then you're notgoing to expect the break down upset.
But he wasn't. So he wasn'tcold or aloof he wasn't so feeling that's
what I was meaning yet or indifferentor anything like that. No, his
reaction didn't give them any reason tobelieve further that he was a suspect.
No, not his reaction, Okay. Police were theorizing at that point that

(20:45):
William was murdered somewhere close to theHampstead Road and then transported in a sack
or a large bag to the trainto be abandoned or a perambulator or a
perambulator wouldn't be the first, wouldn'tbe the first. The area was,
as I mentioned, very busy,and someone carrying a back or even taking
a train with one would not havebeen unusual, okay, especially that Yeah,

(21:06):
everyone's covering big coats and all that. Ye, someone could without great
difficulty pass unnoticed through the streets andonto a train with a small body in
a bag or a sack. Iwas gonna say it wouldn't have been It's
not that it wouldn't have been unusual, It's just it wouldn't have been noticeably.
Yeah, exactly, it wasn't noticeablyunusual. But then why remove the

(21:29):
bag? Yeah? True, Williamwasn't found in any wrapping or bag.
So did the killer empty the bodyout of the bag. That seems a
harder thing to cram the body underthe seat and then take the bag with
them to conceal Evans. Yeah,that seems a harder thing to do.
Yeah. No, you just stuffedthe bag and body all under the seat
and get out of there. Andif as morbid as it sounds, being

(21:52):
in a bag, probably would havehelped you escape quicker because somebody's not likely
to see a hand exactly. Thetheory was that William had been killed in
Regent's Park, which was just tenminutes walk away. I know, exagerate.
The park was also ten minutes walkfrom Chalk Form Station. Could William
have been killed in some secluded spotin the park before being bundled up for
disposal. It could have been,but for the same reason as we've just

(22:17):
discussed. Probably not. Yeah,I agree, probably not transportation, you'd
be noticed carrying a child. Yeah. It's at this point that the newspapers
pick up the story, as theydo. Boy found strangled on train was,
if your pardon the term, agood story in itself, tragic event,

(22:37):
true story, true crime, podcastingalistair. Yeah. Add to that
the authority's initial apparent failure to makeany headway with the investigation, and the
tabloids had a field day. Yeah, headlines like lunatic crime unsolved, and
train mystery deepens. Had the nationon the edge of their proverbial seats,
first class seats, third class,third class seats. Everybody was interested,

(23:03):
I'll bet they were. William's pictureand also John's, were printed in every
newspaper in the country. Meanwhile,the police made door to door inquiries,
and they supplied the press with photosof William in the hopes that someone would
recognize the boy. Yeah, okay. The next day a length of cord
with some hair attached was found atthe Tufnel Park tube station. And it's

(23:25):
on the same line, yes yea. Also, an ominibus conductor told the
authorities that he'd seen a boy ofWilliam's description board his bus along with a
foreign looking man with a mustache.He told police that the pair had got
off at Tuffnel Park, and addedthat the boy had seemed rather reluctant to
go with the man, but yethe did nothing about it. Nothing though,

(23:48):
right good. The cord found matchedmarks on William's neck, and Toughnel
Park was a little used station witha secluded stairwell where someone could strangle a
child and then conceal the body forboarding a train. Certainly much more plausible
than in the park. Yeah.On the thirteenth of January, an inquest

(24:08):
was opened into the death. It'sonly a couple of days later, really.
Yeah. An inquest for clarity isan investigation into the death which appears
to be due to unknown, violentor unnatural causes. It's designed to find
out who the deceased was and where, when and how, meaning what by

(24:30):
what means their death occurred. Yeah, because when you think about inquests these
days, you think of big onesthat run for months and months and months,
if not years. Yeah. TheShiko Bayo case in Scotland, for
instance, the inquest into the police'sresponse into that it's going to be massive,
but that we're not talking about thatkind of thing. This is more
are This is a small investigation,small inquest into an unusual death, which

(24:55):
you would have before any arrest.Really, right, So this is part
of the investigation process. Yes.It was also announced at the same time
that Dr Spielberg had conducted a secondand more thorough post mortem, okay,
and he now believed that it wasmost likely that William was alive when he
boarded the train. Oh okay,and had been killed in the carriage somewhere

(25:17):
between Chopped Farm and Maiden Lane.This was concluded from the lack of the
usual post mortem bruising you would findon a body that had been instantly bundled
into a small, enclothed space likea bag or a suitcase, or a
perambulator or a perambulator. As theinvestigation continued, more witnesses came forward to
tell their chance meetings with young Williamand the unidentified man with the mustache.

(25:44):
Many of the witnesses that came forwarddescribed a man remarkably similar to John Starchfield
right. One important witness who cameforward was Miss Clara Woods. She saw
a boy who looked like William witha man in a dark overcoat who had
a mustache. The pair were walkingtogether holding hands, heading towards Camden Station.

(26:06):
She also remembered that the boy waseating a slice of fruitcake. Lovely,
where do you get the fruitcake from? He bit the baker's There was
a cake stall this outside Toughnel Station. Okay, this was important because the
second autops they had identified undigested sultana'sand currants in William's stomach, so he'd
seen The witness had definitely seen him, Yes, almost certainly. With this

(26:30):
glint of corroboration, the police askedClara Woods to pick out the man she
saw from a book. She choseJohn Startfield's picture, starting to believe it
might have been John. Maybe anotherman called John White, who identified John
Startfield as the man he had seenwith a young boy, fitting William's description.

(26:51):
The pair were waiting outside Camden Stationwhen he saw them. Was he
eating a fruit loaf? He wasnot eating a fruit loaf at that moment.
Another key witness was a timber merchantand former associate of John Startfield,
whose first name I couldn't find.But if there's a god in heaven,
it was Darth. Was it misterVader? No, it's mister mall Ah

(27:11):
okay, I had one and twochants? Then did? Mister Mall told
the inquest that he hadn't seen Johnfor two years until January eighth, when
in the afternoon he saw him witha young boy he described as being tidally
well dressed with golden blonde hair.Sounds like our boy. But there were
other witnesses who had seen something suspiciouson the train itself. A signalman named

(27:34):
George Jackson testified that while working inthe St. Pancras signal box, he
had seen the train from Chalk Farmpass at four eighteen pm. He saw
a man with a dark coat anda mustache bending over something in the third
class carriage. Okay. Also WilliamMercer, who worked as an engine driver,

(27:56):
had seen as the train passed,a well built man in a coat
with a moose dash in the thirdclass carriage bending over as if he was
picking something up. He's been seenbending over or stuffing something under a seat,
there is always that. But therewere also other contradicting witnesses as well.
One of John Startsfield's fellow lodgers,mister Tilley, testified that on the

(28:18):
eighth of January, he'd woken upat two thirty pm and he was certain
that John had still been asleep ashe remembered John leaving about half an hour
later. Okay, so he Imean, he's a he's a fairly decent
alibi there, Yep, very decentalibi. Also one of William's friends,
a boy named Angelo Portinardi, saidthat he had seen William were in one

(28:40):
PM carrying firewood for an older boy, and this would have been after the
fact. He's testifying it was afterthe discovery of the body he'd seen,
not it would have been before,but he could play this would have been
a before. Okay, William wassnatched or so he was just placing him
somewhere that what hadn't been considered before. Yes. Right. The inquest,

(29:03):
however, returned a verdict that JohnStarchfield was guilty of William's murder on the
strength of the circumstantial evidence of severalwitnesses. Not a great way to do
it, It's not, and therewas nothing connecting John to the scene of
the crime or to the murder weapon. And despite the absolute lack of any
discernible motive, John Starchfield was arrestedfor the murder of his son and charged

(29:30):
with it. And yep, andcharged with it. Do we get to
court with John? We get tocourt with John, But not quite yet.
First William's funeral. William's funeral wasalso national news. On the seventeenth
of January, three thousand people linedthe streets, their heads bowed in respect
and in mourning. The procession endedits sad journey at Kendall Street Cemetery.

(29:51):
It's a good number of people.On Tuesday, the thirty first of March
nineteen fourteen, the trial of JohnStarchfield for the murder of his son began.
The streets around the court in Londonwere also packed with people who came
out in support of John, andthe trial was a media frenzy for the
time. John pled, not guilty. You say that and then look at

(30:17):
me as if you believe he mighthave been not guilty. There alsked.
I doubt he did it okay.In his own defense, he stated,
I am the father of William Starchfield. He will be six next birthday.
He did not live with me.He lived with my wife at one nine
to one Hampstead Road. I don'tknow how many rooms she had. I

(30:38):
have never lived with her there.I believe she lived there alone with her
son. I've been away from herfor about five months. She had no
employment whilst I was at home.She is a tailor wrest by trade.
I have allowed them one pound aweek since I left home. It was
one pound a week, and Ihave always given it to my wife.
I kept myself by selling papers.I last saw the deceased three weeks before

(31:02):
his death, which I heard oflast Thursday. I did not see my
wife either during that three weeks.The police told me of his death.
At twelve thirteen midnight. They foundme in the lodging house just after midnight.
I'd been at home about maybe halfan hour. I'd not gone to
bed. I'd just left a publichouse in Oxford Street on Thursday. I

(31:22):
got up and left my bedroom atthree thirty pm. I was a bit
queer. I've been in bed allday because I was not well, and
I've been ill the day before.I still feel the bullet wound. I
left my bedroom, came down tothe kitchen to have a wash, and
went upstairs again to put my clotheson. I then went direct to a
coffee shop in Endles Street. Iasked the waitress the time, and she

(31:45):
said three forty five. I couldnot see the children coming out of the
school at the back of Endles Street, so I went to stand in Oxford
Street and asked the boy if hehad seen the man who takes over my
stand sometimes. He said no.Oh, so I've got my papers and
I sold them as usual. Fairlydecent account of his day is well read.

(32:09):
By the way, Yeah, andit's probably true you're going with I
genuinely do believe him after his initialstatement, the prosecution proceeded to bring out
the same witnesses that gave statements tothe original inquest. Seems reasonable, Yeah,
yeah, But however, John Startsfield'sdefense team, we're on point and

(32:30):
thoroughly cross examined each one in theirturn. I mean, we are pinning
this man on. A few peoplesay so, like literally, there is
nothing other than the fact that hewas the boy's father. Nope, yep,
that's his only pin other than thisguy said, you've done it.

(32:50):
Yeah, you are the few peoplewho have now fingered him from lineups and
photographs. So yeah, so there'snothing, as you said, there,
there's nothing actually pinning him. Well, everything's purely circumstantial, and that is
never a good case to build againstsomebody because it just introduces conjecture and thought
and humanity into it. Almost exactly. During the cross examination of the witnesses,

(33:15):
it soon became clear that some hadobviously seen John's picture in the newspapers
before they identified him, fucking media, which could have influenced them. Others
had given statements in exchange for rewards, which made their testimony suspect, if
not just invalid or invalid. Thedefense also brought out witnesses who corroborated John

(33:38):
Starkfield's statements, such as mister Tilley, the lodger who had seen him at
the boarding house, and other newspapersellers who had seen him at his pitch,
and the waitress from the cafe wherehe got coffee. These seem like
much better if you're going on circumstantialThese seems like much better witnesses, people

(33:58):
who can actually attest for the wareof the man is in yep, rather
than somebody going I think it washim yep. The lack of motive or
connection to the crime were also hammeredhome, and before long the case against
John Startsfield collapsed good. The judgeinstructed the jury to return a formal verdict
of not guilty, and John Startsfieldwas free. It's a mad thing.

(34:22):
We've talked about this a couple oftimes. I don't know if we've actually
talked about it on the podcast,But like the judge instructing a jury to
bring it back, they still needthe jury to say it. Yeah.
But the fact that the judge islike, I am not going to accept
a guilty verdict on this is it'squite That's just quite a strong statement.
It is. And the crowds outsidewent wild and they cheered as John was

(34:43):
led out of the courthouse a freeman because ah pats were thrown in the
air. Fucking bet they were.The papers were full of pieces about justice
being done and the acquittal of anobviously innocent man. The courts did the
right thing. Great story, yes, but it is interesting the press and
public opinion. We're very much onJohn's side from the very start, like

(35:06):
before before the court case. Ohyeah, way before. And some of
you may have asked earlier why John'spicture would have been in the papers in
the first place for witnesses to haveseen. Yeahfore the trial. We spent
a bit of time on the lastepisode that I released with Morgan and Cherry
talking about jury's So Morgan took thetime out to tell us about the first

(35:30):
juried trial in the UK nine fortyseven. I think it was he wanted
to win up us on history andthe questions come about about like why is
it twelve people? Blah blah blahblah blah. But the one question that
always sticks in my mind is like, how do you isolate a juror from
the outside world? Yeah, likeit's much easier to do in nineteen fourteen

(35:52):
than it is to do in twentytwenty three. Isolating a jura from the
media and the impact of social mediaand an hour interconnected world now must just
be an absolute pain in the tips, absolute bollic. Yeah, no phone.
Whereas nineteen fourteen it would have beeneasier, yes, to say you're

(36:13):
not allowed a paper or whatever,but the fact that they were printing it,
they probably shouldn't have been. Theyprobably shouldn't have been. But also
I don't know when the media codeof ethics kicked in, but I wouldn't
imagine nineteen fourteen is they could justprint what they want. They couldn't.
Really they did, right, Okay, But there is a reason, and
the reason is that John Starksfield wasactually something of a national hero already.

(36:37):
Oh okay, it was sort oflike the John Smeeting of his time.
I'd already kicked a flaming man inthe balls. Yes. John Smeaton,
I'm sure we all remember, wasthe legendary baggage handler at Glasgow Airport who
in two thousand and seven was onhis break during the minor terrorist attack.
But Smito kept a level head andtook the time during the crisis to kick

(36:58):
literally on fire terrorists Kafeel Ahmed inthe balls. It's fucking wonderful. It's
a great story and John Startsfield wasas much, if not more, of
a hero than Smeaton. I mean, it's the perfect welcome to Glasgow signpost.
Yeah, don't funk wells or we'llkick you in the balls exactly.
But that means that now we havea second crime to cover. Hit that

(37:20):
intro again, Bob, do wehave to do the whole thing? Yeah?
Okay, cool. Welcome to thesecond part of Twisted Britain this evening

(37:57):
with your host me, Bob Daleand Ali Downey. What you thought about
however, Yeah, this sudden andincredible meta episode within an episode. You've
really broken my mind yet or metasodemetasode, if you will permit me to
invent a word, please do this. Metasode will take us to London,
okay, and to the year nineteentwelve, two years before the death of

(38:21):
William Starchfield. I really thought youwere going to do an episode on Glasgow
Airport terrorism. There. I waslike, we're not doing this, man,
So before we move on, arewe done? With John No.
Okay, but we're will back tonineteen twelve. In nineteen twelve, Stephen

(38:42):
Titus was a Turkish American currently livingin the Horseshoe Hotel in Tottenham Court.
Okay. Stephen Titus had been bornin Turkey, but at the age of
seventeen, he emigrated with his parentsto America to join his extended family.
He worked for an uncle in Massachusettsfor four years before moving on and getting
a job as a furrier horses.Almost it's a person who prefers and deals

(39:07):
with furs. I thought you saidfairrier. It's not the kinky sex thing.
I thought it was Barbie. Ah, not that I've googled it anyway.
Stephen Titus bounced between quite a fewmore jobs before deciding to try to
return to his native land of Turkey. Okay. Now, many of you

(39:27):
may be wondering why the constant upheavaland shifting of jobs and circles of friends.
Is Stephen Titus a young man tryingto find himself in an ever changing
and challenging world. Was he amiscreant? No? Is he fleeing some
dark crime buried in his past thathe constantly fears. Maybe discover, preventing
him from developing friendships and ultimately drivinghim from place to place like a drifter.

(39:52):
I don't know. No, StephenTitus was clinically insane. Okay,
he was, in quotation marks,bothered by everybody, who the voices in
his head told him were in someways plotting against him if you'd stopped it.
Bothered by everybody, I can geton board with that. Ye.
He believes his parents had tried topoison him when he experienced mild cramps after

(40:14):
a family meal. What his parentshad set on him because he needed a
pooh. Yeah. So he moved, but his paranoia also encompassed coworkers who
he said annoyed him, and thevoices in his head told him, we're
talking about him behind his back.I think I like him, and so
he kept moving from job to job. Finally, to escape what Stephen Titus

(40:36):
saw as his many tormentors, hedecided to go back to Turkey to seek
solitude where you could listen to thevoices in peace, presumably, yeah,
and not be annoyed by the peoplearound him. Exactly. I can't get
it. Stephen Titus traveled from Americafirst to London and then to Paris,
where he tried to get a ticketto Turkey. Okay, Unfortunately, he

(40:57):
was informed by the clerk at Crook'sticket offices that due to the French rail
strikes the journey would not be possiblefor an unknown amount of time. For
just me injurig it fro. Haveyou seen them at Donna with the big
booby very niche reference there? Ifyou're not a fan of a loolo,

(41:22):
you should definitely watch it. Ithoroughly enjoyed that reference. Uh. Stephen
unfortunately incorporated this denial into his delusionsand now believed that the rail and travel
companies were also conspiring against him,probably not helping his mind. This is
it, it's not. He returnedto London on the fourth of August and
checked himself into the Horseshoe Hotel onTottenham Court Road, and that's where we

(41:45):
find him earlier. That's where wefind him. For some weeks he frequented
the hotel bar, and he wasfamiliar to the bar staff. As time
passed, however, they began tobother him as everybody else did, and
they worked their way into his power. Annoyer, Stephen was convinced that the
bar maids were trying to poison himlike his parents had, in his food

(42:06):
and also in the cigars that hebought from the bar. Okay, Leslie's
literally just nodded at me, sayingshe's trying to poison us. Taking notes.
Okay. Stephen became more reclusive aseven the other guests began to annoy
him with their clear complicity in theconspiracy being perpetrated against him. For somebody

(42:27):
in his mindset, living in ahotel is a fucking nightmare. Yes,
I agree, you would want tobe just in a wee studio flat somewhere
away from the world. Yeah,but he's not. He's in like the
most public facing breakfast buffet you've everbeen at. Yeah. And on Friday,
the twenty seventh of September in nineteentwelve, after weeks of not being

(42:50):
seen, Stephen Titus went into thehotel bar at ten forty five am.
He was served by the head barmaidand Miss Esther Towers. She inquired why
she hadn't seen Stephen for some weeksby saying, hello, you are quite
a stranger lately, aren't you lovelystatement Stephen Titus simply replied, yes,

(43:12):
a man of few words. WhenEsther Towers brought Stephen his glass of bitter
ale, she asked, why haveyou neglected us? Then? Have you
been away, to which Stephen replied, no, bitter ale at ten forty
five in the morning's a strong choice. He drank his glass of bitter ale
and then left the bar. Hereturned ten minutes later after retrieving something from

(43:36):
his room. Back at the bar, Stephen asked another barmaid for some cigarettes.
The barmaid complied, along with somematches, and then she went about
her usual business of cleaning glasses andstuff behind the hotel bar. Not poisoning
Stephen, Not poisoning anyone. There'sno poisoning. Stephen now lit a cigarette

(43:58):
and then produced a revolver from insidehis coat and shot Esther Tower fatally in
the chest. Holy fuck man.That escalated. He then shot the other
bar maid in the shoulder before turninghis gun on the other patrons of the
bar. He went mad. ThomasJohns was drinking at the bar along with
an associate. Stephen fired wildly atthe pair, hitting Thomas several times,

(44:22):
although miraculously missing his friend. Thomaswould later die in hospital on the twenty
second of October, after sustaining bulletwounds to one hand, both wrists,
and his cheek. Wow. StephenTitus had said nothing since lighting his cigarette,
and now he ran outside. Hewas pursued into the street by an
unemployed barman who was at that momentapplying for a job at the Horseshoe Hotel

(44:46):
in Tottenham Road. Do I knowwho this man is? No? Oh?
Stephen ran towards Great Russell Street,a few yards away from the hotel.
He realized he was being followed,and he turned around and shot the
employed bartender. Okay in the face. Okay, the bullet entered his mouth
and lodged in the back of hisneck. In his statements to the authorities,

(45:09):
he remembered nothing after being shot.Oh, he lived, but he
was seen to continue to chase StephenTitus down Great Russell Road. Fucking.
That's big bitch, and that's goodman. He would eventually be taking the
hospital and survive that horrific injury.Wow, shot in the face, give
him a job. Stephen Titus ranoff down Great Russell Street, firing off

(45:30):
a few random shots for good measure. How many fucking bullets did he have?
He had like a few of thoserevolver clip magazine replacing things because he's
let off a few shots at thispoint. Then he has but a newspaper
seller on Tottencourt Road saw Stephen Titusrunning and firing his revolver. Wait wait,
wait, do I know who heis? You know who he is?

(45:52):
I knew it was coming. Atsome point he saw the unemployed bartender
go down and miraculously get back upagain. Yep, you're never going to
keep him down. You give himup. That's a very different song.
Sorry. The newspaper vendor was noneother than John Starchfield John Smeaton, the
father of William Starchfield, the victimin the episode within this metasode. No,

(46:16):
the metasode within the episode. That'sright. The newspaper vendor was none
other than John Starchfield, the fatherof William Startfield, the victim in the
episode within which this metasode is takingplace. It's a fucking it's a deep
place, like quantum leaping here today. We're going crazy. John Starchfield was
a former army man who would havebeen quite familiar with firearms. When he

(46:39):
saw the unemployed bartender get shot inthe face, he rushed across Tottenham Road
and into Great Russell Street. Hewould have known the danger that he was
in, but regardless, he triedto tackle and then subdue Stephen Titus until
the authorities arrived. So getting thisis the reasoning why people knew who he

(47:01):
was. This is why people knewwho he was. Okay, and just
a fun second episode. And I'vegot a couple of questions for you,
but I'll I'll allow you to tellyour story. And now, Stephen Titus
was a large man, and John'sinitial tackle failed to fail the big man.
A tussle began, during which Johntried unsuccessfully to knock the revolver out

(47:22):
of Stephen's hand. In the midstof this close up tussle, the revolver
went off and John Startsfield was shotthrough the gut, the bullet perforating the
intestine at least five times. Yeah, John went down. I was gonna
say that's that's that's he's been hurt. Oh yeah, but he was still
holding onto Stephen Titus's leg as thelatter proceeded down Great Russell Street, firing

(47:44):
indiscriminately. So Stephen has killed twopeople. The bar made somebody in the
bar wounded a load of people witha load more people, including the other
bar made that unemployed bartender that he'sshot in the face and somehow miraculously survived.
And now John, and now John, he's had a moment. Yeah.

(48:05):
So as Stephen Titus had made hisway down the street, Great Russell
Street, it was he'd been firingat anybody who approached, and he was
seen by an unemployed bath attendant.What's that, uh, toilet attendant?
Oh, he was a toilet.Okay. When you said bath, I
thought you meant like a swimming bath. Yes, spa bath. No,
just he was a toilet. Hewas at unemployed toilet attendant. Okay,

(48:29):
He saw him loading and firing hisrevolver as he walked backwards along Great Russell
Street with John Starchfield hanging off hisleg. The unemployed bath attendant said that
he noticed that as Stephen Titus firedseveral shots, his revolver misfired, and
he took the opportunity to run acrossthe road at Stephen Titus, who shot
at him but missed, and thatas he tried to reload his revolver again,

(48:52):
he bounded at him and took holdof his throat. Loads of folk
have gone for this guy, buthe's still going. A violent struggle then
ensued and Steve Titus started hitting theunemployed bath attendant about the head with the
butt of his revolver. He pistolwhipped him. Yeah. However, the
unemployed bath attendant managed to cling onto Stephen Titus and eventually did succeed in
tripping him and throwing into the groundwith the help of the still clinging on

(49:14):
John Starchfield. Okay. A passingchemist and a scaffolder also came to help
hold Stephen down until the police arrived. There's a lot of people involved in
this out there is. The firstpoliceman on the scene said that he had
been on duty on the twenty seventhof September nineteen twelve at eleven fifteen am

(49:35):
in Tottenham Court Road and said thathe heard two reports coming from that direction,
the direction of Great Russell Street.He said that he then proceeded to
the spot and he saw Stephen Titusstanding on the pavement shooting at random with
a revolver. He then saw thenews vendor, John Starchfield, approach Stephen
Titus and attempt to knock the revolverout of his hand. And then he
saw Stephen Titus fire at the newsvendor twice, saying that the gun misfired

(50:00):
first and then he heard it click, but then he saw Stephen Titus place
his hand into his left hand pocketand produce and load a magazine and then
fire again into the news vendor's stomach, who he then said, dropped onto
the pavement. He said he thensaw the unemployed bath attendant seize hold of
Stephen Titus and said that as heclosed in, all three of them fell

(50:22):
to the ground in a pile.The policeman said that he then seized Stephen
Titus by his right wrist and tookthe revolver. Afterwards, he would say
that the rover had been completely emptywhen it was taken away upon arrest.
Stephen Titus was obviously searched. Yeah, it makes sense. And that description

(50:43):
of the story that you just toldof him running away for the hotel,
that's like the perfect corroboration. Witnesstestimony is an off duty police officer like
that is, if you're going totake a testimony or an evidence witness statement
from somebody, a member of thelaws, a solid place to take it
from. The most solid well shouldbe should be yes, should be the

(51:09):
most solid. That's what, asI said upon rest seven, Titus has
obviously searched, and he's found tobe in possession of one revolver tick,
three spare clips or magazines or thewee revolvery bits that click into a revolver
tick, twenty pounds in gold.I'm presuming you don't mean white. No,

(51:31):
twenty pounds worth of gold, okay, yeah, A ninth of silver,
three and three quarters of bronze,one French coin, one watch,
one gold ring, one knife ina case, one pair of tweezers,
one key, one cartridge live,one comb in a case, one holster
for said revolver, one companion case, three keys, one shoehorn, one

(51:52):
thimble, one belt, three memobooks, one mirror, one match box,
one piece of soap, one packof cigarettes, one pass book,
one piece of rubber, two leathercases, two bills, one silk handkerchief,
and one red stone and a partragein a pear tree. That's how

(52:12):
the fuck was he carrying all that? I don't know, that's a big
list. I just watched you readan entire a four page yeah tense when
he was arrested, though, StephenTitus said nothing other than giving his name
in his basic details, and hecontinued to say nothing for the duration of
his trial. Esther Towers had beenworking at the hotel since May of nineteen
twelve, and Thomas Johns was adraper's assistant, and he had been married

(52:37):
and had lived in Aberdower, MurrayRoad and Northwood. The town of Aberdower,
yes up in the Northlands. Yep, he was just visiting down here.
So the trial for murder, orthe trial for the murder should I
say of Esther Etty May Towers,who was twenty nine years old and Thomas
Morris Johns, who was thirty sevenyears old, and for the attempted murder

(53:00):
of at least two other people byStephen Titus, took place at the Central
Criminal Court on the eleventh of Novembernineteen twelve. Fine he was found guilty.
That does not surprise me. Hewas also found to be insane ah,
and he was ordered to be detainedat his Majesty's pleasure. A doctor
who examined Stephen Titus concluded that hewas insane at the time of the offense

(53:23):
and had probably been so for somelong time previously. The doctor also said
that even if Stephen Titus could rememberthe events of the crime, he doubted
that he would appreciate the quality orthe gravity of his actions. He was.
He's not all there. No.Stephen Titus's mental condition varied quite a

(53:44):
lot, but the doctor stated thatif it remained as it was at the
time of writing the report, thathe would be fit to plead insanity.
The doctor said that Stephen Titus hadbeen suffering from delusional insanity for a long
time. At the true ale,Stephen Titus was found by the jury to
be mute of malice, and heremained silent and apparently indifferent to all that

(54:06):
was going on. Mute of maliceis a strong statement. Just Kenny's refused
to speak in their own defense.I sorry, I thought you meant like,
unable to grasp the gramotask of whathe's done. The illegal term just
means unwilling to speak in your owndefense. Okay, it's a cool term.

(54:27):
It is nice. I wish itmeant something better. I would have
gone with incapable of understanding. Butyeah, okay, fine, still might
get it put on a badge.I'm mute of malice. Twisted Britain,
Thank you love you by a really, really really tiny badge, the tiniest
badge I can possibly Yeah, youdo. Tiny badges just don't understand distance

(54:52):
aleist. It turns out, see, Bob, these these the ones out
there, Bob, the ones outthere are far away. I like that
you could not only father said tome, and I very much enjoyed that
boot doubled down on your Irish accent. There I have. I'm sure we've
gone into trouble for your Irish accentbefore I have. After the trial,

(55:15):
the judge himself expressed his appreciation andfor the brave conduct of the people involved,
and he made the following actual rewards. The chemist and the scaffolder both
have warded fifty pounds. Okay,yeah, The unemployed bath attendant fifty pounds.
The unemployed barman who got shot inthe face twenty five pounds. What

(55:37):
the fuck? Don't know why becausehe was lucky to be alive to take
the money, I don't know,that's bullshit, man, and John starts
Field fifty pounds the fuck off.The guy gets shot in the face gets
more. Yeah, I'm really angry. Like the guy that goes shot in

(55:58):
the face got the least amount ofmoney. I was very upset about the
murdered child earlier on, might bemore upset about the fact the guy got
shot in his face got half asmuch as anyone else, Yeah, anyone.
It is worth noting that John Starchfieldspent many weeks in hospital and he
would never truly recover from the bulletwound. But he was also awarded one
pound a week from the fairly newCarnegie Hero Fund. Okay what was that

(56:22):
privately owned charity commission formed to recognizepersons who perform extraordinary acts of heroism in
civilian life, big bitching people gettingsome cash? Yeah, formed by the
famous Scottish American industrialist Andrew Carnegie,founder of the famous Carnegie Hall in New
York. Carnegie that one. Yeah, Okay, I might be wrong,

(56:43):
but I thought it was Carnegie.It probably is anyway, Do I do
it again? Okay? He wasborn in dun Firma. I think he
was born like a boss. CarnegieHall is like one of the most like
incredible theaters in the planet. Yeah, it is very impressed by it.
So to come out of this littlemetaisode and back to our original episode.

(57:06):
Don't need to pay the end,do I? Believe that gunman stopping national
hero John Startsfield had anything to dowith the death of his last son,
William. No. I was goingto say, I think there's no coming
here. No, I don't.He had no motive or connection to the
crime. And furthermore, he gainednothing from it. There was no insurance

(57:30):
payout, there was nothing. It'sall about money, l not. Yes,
it is usually and did you know, and like reinforcing your point there,
if if there had been an insuranceon his family, you could go,
well he did it. Yeah,but yeah, circumstantial evidence, no
monetary gain, no reason for doingit. Like even if you remove the

(57:51):
word motive, which is associated withcrime, there was just he had no
connection with them. There was noneed or reason or or want to do
it. No, I'm literally basingthis off what you've told me this evening
obviously. Yeah, but I couldsee you struggling to associate him with the
crime what you were telling us aboutthe court case and before that earlier on

(58:15):
the fact that he was the sortof man to go out of his way
to save people. Add to thatgravitas of him being not a cunt.
I think it was. Yeah,I think it was just a dude,
just a good just a dude doingthe right thing, doing the right thing,
caught in the wrong moment. Yeah. Two years after the death of

(58:35):
William in nineteen sixteen, John wouldpass away from complications due to his previous
bullet wound, which never truly healed. Okay. William's mother, Agnes Startfield,
had a mental breakdown following the deathof her third and last child.
She turned to alcohol, and afew months after the trial of her husband,
was herself in court for assaulting amarried lady named Lucy Delgano. The

(58:59):
lady had been a friend of AgnesStarchfield's, but on the eighth of July,
had made a enough hand comment aboutWilliam, after which Agnes punched her
in the face twice. Fuck youpretty much. The judge found Agnes Starchfield
to be a neurotic and excitable woman. I mean, she's lost these children.

(59:19):
He found her five pounds and orderedher to keep the peace for twelve
months. Wished he's a fiver.Yeah, we will never know what really
happened to William Starchfield. Was heled off by an older boy, the
one mentioned by a few witnesses,who was the slightly foreign looking man with
the moustache who had been seen byso many with a boy matching William's description.

(59:45):
We'll never know. Two years afterthe trial, which was the same
year that John Starchfield passed away,actually a man named John Fitzpatrick select Rough
in the Liverpool area confessed to themurder. However, his story didn't match
up to any of the facts ofthe case, and upon examination by a
doctor, he was also declared insaneand detained for his own and the safety

(01:00:05):
of others. It was never thoughtthat he was in any way connected to
the crime in real but he wasthe only other person associated with it.
Yes, but he wasn't actually associatedthat he was just a mentalist to confess
to it, or he's just aman who wanted some attention. Maybe yeah,
okay, And that sadly is theend of the tale, so to
speak. William's a doctor and orkiller were never found and the case remains

(01:00:30):
unsolved and mostly forgotten, which isa shame. There is such a vast
need for justice here that it leavesyou almost angry. Justice for William,
the innocent victim, who had alreadyendured the loss of two older brothers,
and the separation of his parents,only to be snatched somehow in broad daylight
and carelessly killed for no discernible reason. Justice for Agnes Starchfield, who broke

(01:00:54):
under the unfathomable grief of burying herthird and last child, and whose struggle
was so familiar to the lower classesat the time. Justice for John,
who, whatever we believe, wasa man who had now also lost three
sons and had been accused of murderinghis third, and also a man who

(01:01:15):
wrestled the craze gvernment in nineteen twelve. However, there would be no justice,
so to speak, as this caseremains unsolved to this day, and
in a secluded corner of Kendall StreetCemetery, William Starchfield's grave still sits today,
very nearly forgotten. I absolutely didnot want to interrupt you at the

(01:01:37):
end. That was beautifully surmised Alistair. What a case. I don't know
how long we've been here for.What a case. We've been talking for
a while now. This will cutdown to about an hour, but the
big one almost a double one though. I've got a couple of questions for
you. You don't believe John.I don't believe John's Archfield killed his son.

(01:02:00):
No, do you think it wasa It was a random act of
violence that will never know the answerto. Yes. I only ask you
this because normally get really angry atyou when you do cases that are unsolved,
because you know, I like aconclusions, no closure. There's no
closure to this. However, basedon the metisode, within the episode and

(01:02:22):
the background that we're given into it, I don't think I personally have any
doubt that John wasn't responsible. WhenI get very angry as well, there's
a possibility of somebody, somebody beingresponsible, but we have no grasp but
any human human being and being associatedwith William's death. So I'm slightly less

(01:02:45):
angry. I'm very angry at afive year old being murdered. That boils
my blood. It's a terrible thingin broad daylight, beyond belief, that
boils my blood. I don't thinkJohn did it. I don't think so
either, Ye, nothing to gainfrom it. He had no connection,
so provable connection. He was sellingnewspapers at the time of the crime.

(01:03:07):
Can we go back to the motherjust briefly, of course, again she
was Agnes starts Field. Agnes wasout of the house when she was sent
when William was sent out for messages, yes, to do his chores or
whatever. Was she ever questioned asa suspect, No, not as a
suspect. Was questioned to see whereher husband was and who her husband was,

(01:03:30):
She was questioned to look for otherpossible suspects, but she was never
questioned as a potential suspect. Ijust wonder, and I wonder with no
fathomable reason, whether that's a missedopportunity there, because she is another direct
relation that, as far as I'maware, what you've told you tonight can

(01:03:53):
only account for her time based offher testimony was never absolutely true. I'm
not saying she did it. Ijust want to I just want that better
closure on that side there. No, I can absolutely understand that she does
not have what you recall as adiscernible alibi. She also doesn't have a
motive, but she also doesn't havea motive. And the death but I

(01:04:14):
would certainly broke her and I wouldcertainly expect the woman to be in a
state of depression or anxiety. Buthaving lost two sons already, I'm not
casting. But we also can't tellhow something that that could affect someone absolutely,
and I'm, like I said,I'm not casting expursions. I just
I'll just find it very interesting thatshe wasn't questioned in the same way as
John was. My other one questionfor you was which did you find first?

(01:04:42):
Which of these did you find themeticine or the episode first? I
found the episode before the medicine.You actually found this case that's just happened
to have a hero within it.Yes, you searched for the hero inside
the case. I found the heroinside the case. I one hundred percent
thought you were going to say,I found this story about this guy like

(01:05:03):
saving people in the street, andit just so happened that he was associated
with a crime later on. No. Interestingly, no, I found the
story about the child on the trainand then realized that John Startsfield was the
same man who had stopped Stephen Titustwo years before that. That's mad because

(01:05:24):
in my head, like for thelast maybe fifteen to fifteen minutes or so,
I thought you'd written the metasode andthen just found stuff and gone,
fuck, I need to go backand do another bit to lead to this
bit. But it was the otherway around, the other way around.
Well that's cool because you then genuinelyfound a medicode, but a metasode I
did. I found a metode withinan episode. It was great. Metisode

(01:05:45):
has to be a word. Ifit's not, can we get it trending.
We'll do that light barroom hashtag metasode. Well done, well done.
I love that, ok you one. I'm not going to say I enjoyed
that, sat here for very interestingthough. Yeah. I sat here for
periods of time much much longer thanI normally would without interrupting you. Just

(01:06:10):
listening to that story, very much, enjoying it. And I knew it
was a long one based on I'mgoing to put a post up on what
happens when Ali does a long episodebecause it's an absolute fucking horseshit. Eighteen
four pages strewn about the set.It just throws them away. One week
I'm going to do like a weekgift of you just throwing a page away.
This one's done now, this one'sout of my life. People with

(01:06:34):
OCD would hate sitting with you doingan episode. I really enjoyed the week
to Sayah picked everyone up that Idropped put they're not in order? I
checked, she got one out board. Anyway, we'll come back. Yeah,
you know, I don't think Johndid it me neither. I can't

(01:06:55):
see. I can't see the reasonthe motivate. The sad thing about that
is that one of those and Georginistmen or women that was on that train
murdered a child. Yes, Inever paid the penance for that, which
is a horrible thing and will neverbecause it's one hundred and eighteen, one
hundred and eight, one hundred andten years ago some of that. So

(01:07:17):
they're dead. Yeah, So theygot away with it as well as a
human being can get away with something. They took it to their grave and
I hope they rottin whatever version ofhell they believe in, so we'll never
know. Thank you, Alistair,No problem, it was. It was

(01:07:38):
a fascinating case to look into.Where did you find most of it?
Our newspaper archives and bits and pieces. Most of it with newspaper archives.
Yeah, I think the YouTube podcastBriefcase Okay covers the William Starsfield part of

(01:08:00):
it. So you found you listenedto somebody else doing some bits and bobs.
Yeah, cool. Well looked andthen looked into it further and then
realized that there was a whole metaepisode within the episode and what was sorry,
what was their YouTube channel? Briefcase, briefcase. Check them out?
Yeah, why not. I've nevernever listened to them, but if you've
listened and enjoyed and took something fromit, people should check them out.

(01:08:24):
We all do this for the samereason, Alistair. It's everyone's self expression.
Yeah, listen to as much contentas you can. Everybody. Absolutely
well done, Alistair. We'll westayed on social media from there. You've
hashtag twisted Britain. Hashtag twisted Britain. If that trends one day, I'll
be very happy. But you canfind it on social media by looking up
just written on all of your socialchannels, whatever the fuck they're called.

(01:08:46):
This week, Facebook give it toyou, X is gonna give it to
you, Instagram is gonna show itto you, Red's is gonna do something
to you. I spoke to somebodyat work the other day and they told
me about the difference between the socialmedia channels and the age demographics that are
associated with the different social medias.Now, I prefer personally to use Facebook

(01:09:12):
and I fall right into the demographicof forty to sixty year olds that the
other biggest demographic on Facebook, andthen you go from their ex slash Twitter,
then Instagram, then TikTok and allthe other nonsense. But yeah,
apparently I'm falling, falling into oldman's social media. Now take that.
I'm young. No, you're justyoung in social media, which is very

(01:09:35):
different. You did post this evening, and I appreciate that. Do it
more often. I'll try. Otherpeople enjoyed it, You should do it.
I did enjoy it, and Ilove I loved interacting with the people
in the world. Well, it'svery easy to do, so Alistair just
teld people in the world, well, it was lovely to interact with you.
We will take a photo in twominutes time on Alistair's phone of the

(01:09:56):
absolute fucking carnage he's left and apicture of that bad was pack it down
there as well, and Ali willpost it this evening. I think I've
talked enough shit. It's been agood episode. I'm very I did for
all the for all the horrendous content. I mean, you started off with
a dead child train the subject matter. Not to detract from the subject matter

(01:10:19):
it was. It was enjoyable toresearch and finding a metisode within an episode
was great. It was first timein like one hundred episodes, So thank
you for your metisode. You're welcome, pleasure, and thank you very much
to you listening wherever you are,whatever time of the day, Good morning,

(01:10:39):
good afternoon, good evening, goodand aben whatever bond we nice?
So I could do do that's mySpanish. That's it. Two beers please,
Yeah, wherever you're listening, wheneveryou're listening, thank you very much.

(01:11:00):
If you could do is do wetickle of a favor. It doesn't
take much time out of your dayto hit five stars. You don't even
need to write a review. Actually, like if you've got time in your
day to write a review and takethirty seconds to do that, that would
be wonderful. If not, justhit the five stars because some reason,
it makes more people listen to us. It helps us with the agram.
Although if you want to write Aliis the best, that is also absolutely

(01:11:21):
fine. Also, I'm not evenbothered if you if you take the time
to write something great stag ali isthe best, you can just stop with
the hashtags. Now. Yeah,we we love telling our stories. We
would like more people to listen tothem because they tend to be unheard of
stories. So the more people wholisten, the better and the better the

(01:11:42):
world becomes. That's true. Soif you have the time to either recommend
it vocally to somebody or pop uplyreview on the podcast, that would be
wonderful. And we don't do itoften, but if you could that we
work great. We have literally nothingelse. We have a Patreon channel.
You can check that out if youwish to, and if you are a
member of our Patreon channels already nowmistake, I love you. Other than

(01:12:04):
that, I've got nothing else.You've got anything tonight. No, I've
thoroughly enjoyed researching and bringing this caseto you. I can't wait to see
well here, well, well,I know about everybody. Next week,
I'm going on a journey. Idon't get to see your here anybody.
I'm going on a journey, Alijourney. I'm going to do you magical
journey. No, maybe not magicalone based off the Flying Carpet can show

(01:12:30):
me the world shining, shimmering,splended. Let's not do that ever again.
Oh we ow Disney so much moneynow? Yeah? Well no,
I think we cut it off alongearly enough. It's getting pretty fucking rowdy
down the front of the pupp Itturns out I don't know what's going on,
so he's pulling the Benga Boys orsome ship. So quite literally,

(01:13:17):
just based off the fact that Idid the person of the Freud episode last
week that we will record again nextweek because of the volume of the pub,
which is getting a bit rowded downthe front now as it turns out,
and I've started looking into murders onthe Everywhere Express, murders on the

(01:13:39):
Everywhere Express that's death train murders.Basically, I just want to use your
button. No, I'm actually goingto delete the button. I think we've
done it enough times now. Wow. But what we're going to replace it
with just probably needing a pump.I absolutely don't want to, right,
shall we fuk off? Now?Yes? Right everybody? Thank you,

(01:14:00):
love you bye and thank you loveyou bye, thank you bye, thank
claud your few bye again, hearmyself.