Episode 257

Sue Taynor was worried about her 21-year-old daughter, Jessica Sacco. She was bipolar, depressed, and vulnerable, having just gotten out of a bad relationship. When Jessica moved into a one-bedroom apartment in Urbana, Ohio, she began to open her home up to people who were a negative influence on her. Soon enough, there were six people living in the small unit. By the end of March, 2012, there would only be five.

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Sword and Scale contains adult themes andviolence, and is not intended for all
audiences. Listener discretion is advised.She was pleading with me to sash her
throat, Sasha rest do something,and I told her, no, I

(00:23):
can't do that to you. Goodmorning, good afternoon. How you doing.
If you're the type of person thatusually skips the intro, you may
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the future of Sword and Scale.By the way, that's what you're listening
to. And this is season eleven, episode two hundred and fifty seven.

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Here we go. Okay, sothis is kind of important. We're launching

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(02:19):
better than everybody else. Puff yourchest a little bit. There you go.

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You ever hear that term cut theapron strings. It's a phrase that
encapsulates the idea of letting go.Every parent is aware of this idea.
I think it's part of life,allowing your children to grow up and become

(03:21):
independent individuals, hoping you made allthe right choices and hoping they'll do the
same, much like a mother birdpushes her fledglings out of the nest and
onto the brave new world, encouragingthem to learn to fly on their own.

(03:42):
Cutting the apron strings symbolizes the momentwhen parents must release their tight grip
on their children's lives. It's asignificant transition from a state of dependency to
complete independence, from childhood to adulthood. If you would argue against allowing kids
to become independent and venture out ontheir own as they grow and mature,

(04:09):
it's a vital part of their development. It's necessary. This little push from
parents often creates young adults with solidself reliance, responsibility, and the ability
to make choices and base the consequencesof them. It's a natural progression,

(04:30):
but it's worth acknowledging that sometimes thisjourney doesn't always end in a picture perfect
way. Parents are often forced tosit back and watch as their children make
the same mistakes over and over again. Trust me, I was one of

(04:53):
them. My poor mom. Thatwoman's a saint. It's not always the
best thing for parents to swoop inand rescue their children from every emergency that
they may find themselves in. Butsitting back to watch it all unfold,
knowing you just can't help, there'snothing you can do, it can be

(05:16):
heart wrenching. Many parents watch theirchildren in the throes of addiction, for
example, knowing that their child musthit rock bottom before they finally decide to
make a change in their lives.All parents can do is sit back and
wait for this to eventually happen.Now, the story we're about to get

(05:40):
into isn't about drugs or addiction,but it's about a family who was forced
to watch their child continue to makedangerous decisions with no regard for the consequences.
This story, like many others,does not have a happy ending.

(06:27):
Sue Tayner was nervous about her twentyyear old daughter, Jessica Sacko, living
on her own. Jessica wasn't movingout of her family home for the first
time, but she was moving backfrom Urbana, Ohio, after a relationship
in Florida took a bad turn.It was the start of twenty eleven,

(06:49):
and after returning from Florida, Jessicawould be moving into her own apartment,
a duplex. Her mom, Sueagreed to help pay rent a mere three
hundred and sixty dollars a month forthe unit. Urbana is about forty miles
west of Columbus. It's a smalltown with a little over eleven thousand residents.

(07:13):
Jessica's new apartment was in a smallcream colored building. Two doors sat
side by side for each of thetwo separate tenants. The ripe bold age
of twenty may seem a bit oldto be worried about sending your kid out
into the world, but Jessica wasmedicated her bipolar disorder and had extremely low

(07:38):
self esteem. These things, pairedwith her naive outlook on life and her
lack of experience, could result indisaster if Sue didn't keep an eye on
her daughter. After all, theirrelationship was already on a treacherous footing due
to Jessica's mental illness. Jessica hadalready showed own her repeated poor choices and

(08:01):
friends and in men, but Suedidn't want to push Jessica away even further.
Sue didn't want to be bugging herall the time or sharing too many
opinions about how she thought Jessica wouldbe living her life, so she towed
a careful line. Soon after Jessicagot settled into her new one bedroom unit,

(08:26):
she began seeking out new friends,but because of her lower social latitude,
Jessica found it easiest to make newfriends through Facebook. Her profile read
this, I'm very outgoing and sweet, kind hearted, caring, passionate,
compassionate, and I love learning newthings. I love animals and going to
the beach and taking a walk.I like cooking good and delicious meals.

(08:50):
In my spare time, I liketo read, write down my thoughts and
my poetry. I love playing videogames and doing puzzles. I'm also family
oriented. I love kids, andI love helping others. Maybe in an
open year to people is what makesme a good person. I'm an understanding
person as well, and try tohelp solve problems. I'm talented and intelligent
too. I do not take bullshit, and no drama or whining. You

(09:11):
cross me, you will wish younever did. If you don't, you're
good. Well that escalated quickly.Jessica's grade school and high school friends recall
that Jessica was bullied a lot,but she was too shy to stand up
for herself. Now that she wasan adult and she had the Internet and

(09:33):
social media at her disposal, shecould create a facade of confidence and strength,
because we all know that that's whatsocial media does for us. Right
At first, Jessica tried several datingsites, but nothing really panned out,
so she began putting more and moreof her time and energy into Facebook.

(09:58):
Soon enough, Jessica connect with ayoung man named Matthew Puccio. Matthew was
a twenty four year old dude wholived in Texas and was a self proclaimed
juggalow. Now these folks, we'vetalked about them before in other episodes.

(10:18):
You may have heard of them,but just to give you another rundown.
The term juggalo or Juggallette for womenis used to describe the dedicated inner fan
club of the hardcore hip hop groupcalled Insane Clown Posse or ICP for short.

(10:41):
They perform what is called horror core, a form of hip hop that
includes themes of the supernatural, occult, and psychological horror in their lyrics.
Think music for Jerry Springer fans.Here's Matthew's childhood friend, a guy named
Andrew Forney, also a self proclaimedjuggalaw. I was born here. Mister

(11:07):
Fritchier was born in Montana, movedthere when he was about five years old.
I met him when his family startedgoing to the church that I was
going to, and then we werein elementary school together as well. Before
they reached middle school, matt movedaway and he and Andrew lost contact until

(11:28):
about twenty ten. I was filledin on a story later on. I
did not know where he went atthe time that he left. What I've
been told is that he moved toBanning, California, lived with his dad
and stepmother for a little while.He said that after he lived with them
for a little while, he endedup getting moved into a group home until

(11:50):
he was eighteen. He claims someincarceration during that period of time as well.
After he turned eighteen, his brother, who was in the Air Force,
moved him out to Virginia and helived there for several years, and
she's moved around a few more timessince then. Matthew had been shuffled around

(12:13):
all his life and continued those nomadictendencies into adulthood. Just like Jessica's tone
shifting Facebook bio, Matt's bio saidthis, I believe in God, Shanngry
Law, and the Dark Carnival.I am a proud father of four wonderful

(12:33):
kids. I may not open upright away with people because they usually don't
ask the right questions. My lifeis an open book, but I don't
mention my life story unless it's aperson in need or fam that needs help
keeping their hatchet high. I'm athirteen year old wicked clown who takes the

(12:54):
psychopathic views, beliefs, and musicvery seriously, and if you don't like
it, then you can fuck off. I'm honest and blunt, but very
true to the woman I love.I don't play petty high school bullshit.
So if you expect sympathy over somedumb shit, you may not get it

(13:16):
from me unless I know you wellenough to swing a hatchet for whoop whoop
mmf w K cl which, incase you're wondering, stands for much motherfucking
wicked clown love. Yeah, that'swhat we're dealing with, folks. And
about that, uh whoop woop yeah, help me out brother woop woo to

(13:43):
marry Yeah, that's the Juggalo matingcall. I guess we can't really be
sure. It's really confusing. Weshould get David Attenborough in here to explain.
By the way, Jessica was enthralled. The two quickly connected over bands
like Corn Cross, Fade, andof course, insane clown Posse, who

(14:07):
once again do not understand how magnetswork. I'm not kidding, look it
up anyway. Jessica clearly an emotionallyimmature person quickly took the honorable role as
Juggallette and began referring to Matt asher Juggalow husband. The clip you're about

(14:28):
to hear isn't Jessica herself, buta young woman from the exact same time
period in which Jessica was becoming involvedin the Juggalo subculture. As far as
it goes, first, all youknow my opinion on what diyoglou let minghoos,
thumbwall collar and someone who don't givea book, you know, so

(14:54):
you know, people who are kindof outpassed, never really got along with
them, but they don't really care. A big family browcast before it is
in case you couldn't understand her,she said that ICP is basically a big
family for outcasts. Just a fewmonths after Jessica began talking with Matt Puccio
online, he made a trip fromTexas to visit her in Urbana, Ohio.

(15:20):
The two hit it off romantically suddenlyon Facebook, Jessica was a lifelong
Juggallette and Matthew was her Juggalo husband. It was official Facebook official when fall
was turning to winter of twenty eleven, Jessica's family noticed a shift in the

(15:41):
way she was interacting with people online. Because Jessica was the kind of person
who posted her every thought and feelingon Facebook, it was easy to see
when something was awry in her life. Just a year prior, in twenty
ten, Jessica's Facebook posts were ofstatuses like this, My life was so

(16:02):
bad back in the days when Iwas young and stupid, restless. Now
I live for God, and asI turned my life around, I think
of how I was back in theday, and I thank God my sister
and my brother in law and Jakeand Leah for being there for me through
thick and thin. Thanks guys,love you all. But by the time
the holiday season of twenty eleven rolledaround and Jessica was in the throes of

(16:25):
her new relationship with Matt Puccio,her statuses and comments began to look more
like this, Today was a prettyfucked up day. A good friend of
mine was a whore and tried stealingmy fiance, but him and I took
care of the drama and told herto lose our numbers and excuse my language,
but I'm still mad at her.But it is what it is.
And it's just petty that she is. Misty is a whore and needs to

(16:45):
mind her own damn business, andshe needs to die and keep to herself
and quit causing drama. Anyways,I'm happy and she ain't, so woop
woop. The very next status said, well, my days just keep getting
more complicated to explain, and yesterday, the day before that really caught me
off guard. So last night Ibought a bottle of good wine and a
couple of beers and got drunk athome, and my life was peachy keen.

(17:08):
So all I can do is justsay wow and fuck my life?
What should I do? God?Please help me overcome my fears, and
please tell me what to do.I need you right now more than my
own kid and everybody else. Pleaseforgive me whoop to all my lows and
lets. Given that she was basicallypretending to be married, using online slurs
and publicly wishing people dead, Jessica'smother began to suspect that she may be

(17:34):
off her medication, you think,and to make matters worse, she had
a sneaking suspicion someone was living withher daughter. This was not part of
their agreement. When Sue originally toldjess she would help pay rent and get
her on her feet. When Suedrove over to Jessica's house to confront her

(17:56):
one day, when altercation ensued.Apparently Matthew, also bipolar surprise Surprise,
had convinced Jessica to get off ofher medication. At the end of their
screaming match, Sue asked Jessica ifthis is what she truly wanted, and

(18:18):
Jessica said yes, so Sue leftdisappointed. If Jessica wanted to be on
her own with this quickly boiling potof problems, then so be it.

(18:57):
Twenty one year old Jessica Sacho hadrecently secured her own one bedroom apartment in
Urbana, Ohio with the help ofher mother, suit tainer. Jessica was
trying to get back on her feetafter a messy breakup and had to struggle
her whole life to choose and keepgood friends and boyfriends. Jessica was medicated

(19:21):
for bipolar disorder, and her motherknew how she could get if she went
off her meds, so it wasimportant for Sue to keep an eye on
her adult daughter. By the holidaysof twenty eleven, Sue had begun to
distance herself from Jessica after confronting herat her apartment holed up with Matt.

(19:45):
During that visit, not only didshe confirm that Jessica now had a roommate,
but she was calling this guy herhusband and he had convinced her to
get off her bipolar medication. Fastforward to Thursday, March twenty ninth,
twenty twelve, Sue had become veryconcerned about her daughter after realizing she hadn't

(20:07):
heard from her in seven days.When Sue went to Jessica's Facebook page,
she saw that jess hadn't posted astatus since March twenty second, exactly seven
days prior. The most recent statuseson Jessica's timeline were alarming, to say

(20:30):
the least. On March nineteenth,she wrote this, tired, frustrated,
feeling like shit, crying and feelinglike I'm not worth anyone's time. All
I'm doing is just digging myself ahole and I need to get out of
it quick, So I need tofocus more. But all what I'm dealing
with and going through isn't helping none. So time to get rid of things,

(20:51):
stress, anger, frustration, etc. Were walks and exercise The most
recent status on March twenty second readpissed off beyond belief, but yet I'm
super calm. That's when I'm ina very snappy and dangerous mood. This
is when I need a bottle ofwine and a hug and a girlfriend to
spend time with. Board Send meyour best bottle of red wine, smiley

(21:12):
face. Sue decided to drive overto Jessica's apartment and make sure everything was
okay. When she got there,no one answered the door. It was
locked, so she let herself inwith the spare key. I mean,
she had paid for it after all. As soon as she pushed the door

(21:37):
open, a decaying stench hit herlike a brick wall, assaulting her lungs.
As the outside light hit the darkand dank apartment, Sue could see
the disaster inside. Flies buzzed allaround the room. Maggot's rawled on crusty

(22:00):
food, stuck on dirty dishes.The carpet was stained and crummy. Disposable
cups and bottles were toppled over everysurface. Boxes, a lamp, but
TV and other clutter was pushed intothe far right corner of the room.

(22:22):
It was just an absolute train wreckof course, this scene also included the
obligatory mountain dew bottle. You'll alwaysfind one of those around when there's a
juggalos. Sue made her way throughthe debris, covering her nose and looking
for her daughter, but it waspretty obvious that no one was home.

(22:45):
Sue came upon the bathroom door,tried to open it and found it locked.
She looked through the crack under thedoor to see if anyone was in
the bathroom, but it looked empty. She left. It wasn't until the
next day that Jessica's landlord went insideand got the bathroom door open. Well,

(23:10):
it turns out that Jessica was inside. After all, she'd been in
the bathtub, something that Sue wouldnot have been able to see from her
vantage point. Jessica was dead,and she had been murdered in a most
gruesome way. Shocking revelations about agruesome murder in Urbana where a woman was

(23:33):
dismembered. Now five people were arrested, and our Jessica Heffner spoke with a
woman who said she took some ofthose suspects in, claiming the killing was
in self defense. She's now alivewith us with more Jessica Well John Paul.
We're still waiting for three of thepeople accused in this Urbana murder to
be brought back to Champagne County,but talking with one of the accused friends,

(23:55):
she said the victim's ex boyfriend killeda woman to protect himself, and
two of his friends were apprehended inHamilton Walling Court. Today. I met
with a friend who said the threestayed with her before being arrested. She
asked us to hide her identity,but told me Puccio said he killed Raysaco
in self defense because she plans tokill him. She also told me why

(24:15):
he said he dismembered her body.He just said that he did that just
to making it where it couldn't reallybe found, because you know, he
scared for his life. Like Isaid, that boy wouldn't really even hurt
a fly. By checking the Facebookpages of each of the accused, we
learned that they're all members of theJuggalo family. It's a hybrid gang.
The FBI has it has its ionand as a woman and fellow member told

(24:40):
us today at court, the exboyfriend of the victim was believed she wanted
him dead, so he acted first. Police say. Jessica Raysaco had been
dead for eight days when they foundher dismembered body in a bathtub in Urbana.
Police moved quickly collecting evidence and arrestedfive people the next day. By
looking at the victims on Facebook page. On the day of her death,

(25:00):
she said she was angry but calm. We also learned she considered herself a
member of the Juggalos, a rapidlygrowing gang according to the FBI. So
was her ex boyfriend Matthew Puccio andfour others accused of killing her. Maybe
he admitted to what he actually did. Yeah. Puccio was arrested in Hamilton

(25:21):
along with two others this weekend.In court today, we spoke with his
friend, a fellow Juggalo named Linda. She didn't want us to show her
face, but said she allowed Puccioto stay with her after the alleged murder.
She told us Sacho threatened to killPuccio when they broke up, so
he decided to take her out first. That's why she says he shouldn't be
in jail. I think that theyshould allow him to go. I mean

(25:44):
that boy, he wouldn't even hurta fly, you know. The only
reason why he did it was aself defense. If I was said,
I would have probably done it too. Oh wow, there's a lot to
unpack there. The news anchor saidthat five people were arrested for Jessica's murder.
You may be wondering how on earthpolice unraveled what actually happened here and

(26:11):
tracked down all five suspects so quickly. Well, let's rewind back to Jessica's
falling out with her mother, Suetoward the end of twenty eleven. Shortly
after Sue discovered Jessica was no longertaking her bipolar medication, jess and Matt's
blazing romance turned into a foursome.Matt invited another couple in a similar scenario

(26:37):
to move in. They were nomadic, living off of Social Security, disability
and or unemployment. You know us. Anyway, they needed a place to
stay. Oh and they were Juggalostoo. The man was Matt's longtime friend,

(27:00):
five year old Andrew Forney, bringingwith him his wife, twenty five
year old Kansas. I've moved arounda few times myself. I left California
in two thousand and six. Iwent to Galina, Kansas. I was
living there with my brother and grandmother. I moved to Hawaii in I believe

(27:22):
it was November of two thousand andsix. I moved back to California in
October of two thousand and seven.I lived in California until March of two
thousand and eight, at which pointI moved back to Galina, Kansas and
lived with my brother for several months. I then moved into o Sage Beach,

(27:47):
Missouri. Lived there was back andforth between there and my brother's house
for a little bit. I leftMissouri to move up to Michigan in June
of twenty ten. I lived upin Michigan with my mother in law and
her husband until December of last year, at which moved in with Matts and

(28:15):
Chess. Remember this was a onebedroom apartment. The front door opened up
to a small living room, thekitchen was back toward the left with a
hallway separating it from the living area, and the single bedroom was off to
the right hand side of the kitchen, next to the only bathroom. It's

(28:40):
hard to imagine Jessica willingly allowing allof these people to move in to that
tiny little apartment. So at thispoint Matt had moved in with jess Matt
hadn't seen his friend Andrew in abouta decade, and he had never met
Andrew's wife, Jessica had never meteither of them until they came down for

(29:02):
Thanksgiving of twenty eleven. Here's Candacetalking about the first time she and Andrew
met Matt and jess in person.It was just great Thanksgiving and we were
trying to figure out if we're livedown her. I don't know who offered
it was mad or Chess at time, but all I know is that we

(29:23):
were going down there to see howthings would be. Did jess know that
these people weren't just visiting for Thanksgivingbut were scoping out or place to see
if it was a good place forthem to live. I don't know,
but I'm guessing probably not. Inall likelihood it was Matt who offered Jessica's

(29:45):
apartment to the forties. What wasjess going to say? What was she
going to do? Andrew and Candacewere fellow Juggalos, They had nowhere to
go, and Matt probably used thisto guilt Jessica into saying, yes,
how could you possibly let your fellowJugglos and Juggallettes go hungry? And homeless.

(30:07):
Jessica, you monster, you absolutepiece of trash. So anyway,
the first time Andrew Forney and hiswife Candace came down to Ohio to meet
Matt and Jess, they stayed fora week, then they drove back up
to Michigan, grabbed all of theirstuff, and drove right back down to

(30:29):
Jess's apartment in Urbana, Ohio.They just moved in, just like that.
It wasn't long before it became clearthat this many personalities stuffed into a
very very tiny space only a couplehundred square feet in size, was not

(30:51):
going to work at first to getalong. But then we started and them
alive. But Jes smidt get alongvery well. I try, I I
don't know what happened. So thefriendship side between you and Jess fell part

(31:12):
once you guys moved back down here. How long hadn't been? How long
would you say you guys were friendlyuntil it started to earning back about I
think a week when we moved backdown. Okay, with four grown adults
living in a one bedroom apartment fulltime with no jobs, things were bound

(31:36):
to get a little bit tense.The few bits and pieces you've heard thus
far are from Candace and Andrew's postplea interviews. These interviews stipulate that you
must tell the truth or your pleadeal is off the table. Now we'll
hear from everyone, just after policefound them using cell tower records hiding in

(32:01):
a home in Hamilton, Ohio.This will be fun. Here's the man
we've all been waiting for. Whatis Matthew put? I mean, is
it Matthew or okay? M AT t A, Okay, Matthew's William
start tours? Okay, start CCMatthew star with two rs. By the

(32:30):
way, Puccio, what a name? How are you again? What's a
good address for you? I don'tknow, it's just the wa in arena.
I was just putting Hamilton for now? Is it is the house where

(32:51):
you were at three eighteen North LellStreet? So you you moved in there?
Yeah? And tell them the placeand situated. We got the other
one again, well, I usedto have four of them divers me,
so I'm trying to get the feliswhere's that at Texas? And then her

(33:13):
really puts a team what happened there? She died of her but furr Artery
in the print and was he herethat happened? Do you know, Dad?
I would call that that's rough.And then Jacob my son, his
mom shook him too hard and he'sdying from bleeding from the print. Where's

(33:37):
he at Texas as well? It'sthe same. Wow. So and all
that has been going on since thissure a lot of stress high and it
doesn't help to any of my medicine. What kind of ads take on a
psychotics? How long they do that? Since I was fifteen? What's the

(34:01):
high trade? You completed at school? Two years of college? So you
got fourteen years time? Where's yourcollege at the University of Phoenix? Accident
Brant, It's just deal online program, reige made in business administration. That's
just what was happening. Okay,And I'll say ID two right now.

(34:21):
I'm not sure I came in inthe middle list. All right. I
declare that the following statement is madeof my own pretty will, without anyone
having promised me anything or offered outto me any hope of reward. And
I maybe the statement without any fearof physical harm, without anyone having offered
to do me any favor, andwithout anyone promising me leniency. I've heard

(34:43):
the stay that I am able toread and write the English language and have
completed fourteen years of school. NowI do feel from my life about this
from us my cousin, No,no, no no, they're saying,
we're not faring going to kill you. Who's your who's your cousin? To
to tell them all field? What'shis name? What's wrong with him?

(35:05):
He's the one who ordered me todo all of this because there was a
text message that was sent to myphone that was afforded from the jest putting
the head on me, and hetold me if I didn't do it,
he was gonna kill me. Whywould Why would you put it out of
here? You know he did it? Just it? Why would you just
put it hit out here? Idon't know. She so she was so
mad at me. She just wantsme dead, and she knows the people

(35:27):
to do it. Who is whois the people? This year? I
don't know? So how does yourhow did your cousin find her about?
That? Makes your friends? We'retalking with him and they afforded him the
message, and then he afforded tome, where's that? Where's few of
that? Sister? Right now?He fled the country because of this.

(35:49):
Okay, all right, let meand and and I don't know everything he
talked about, but here's what wejust started hearing. As you're he just
like go to the next page orwhen you think you're the last phase started
there. The cop is like,okay, I smell bullshit right off the

(36:09):
bat. Matt was claiming he wasrelated to the quote godfather of the Italian
Mafia. Interviews with other members ofthis rag tag household would eventually paint a
clearer picture of what was going on. A man named Christopher Wright and his
girlfriend, Sharon Cook were of particularinterest. Christopher was in his thirties,

(36:34):
and boy was he a talker.What came as a shock to everyone in
the investigation was that Christopher and Sharonhad only just met the rest of the
gang a few days prior to Jessica'smurder. But they were there, and
they obviously helped to try to coverit all up. Are you from New

(36:55):
Jersey? Yes? Okay, Imoved from Jersey to Ronald Okay, okay,
from originally from Jersey. I gotmarried him around and came to more
Snell and just I need three andfifty to start the process in like two
thousand. Wow for I guess lawyer'sfast. Yeah, cheaply smoked. All

(37:21):
right, what's your full name?Christopher Joseph Right? W rg st.
Okay, here's what's going on.I need to talk to you about this.
I figured that. Yeah, yeah, I got one thing to say.
I don't mind telling you what Iheard, what was done. I'm
just afraid for me and my girl. I get what I'm saying. You're
afraid he's gonna come back yet.Let's just put it this way. After

(37:44):
all this was done, he saidthat was number two hundred and thirty six.
Okay, and that's I think that'sbullshit. But if you take somebody's
life that you still called loved withlove, what am i? He's locked
up? All right? Well,yeah, we get all I'm saying.
What am mine? Right? I'mlike, right, that's that's the only

(38:06):
thing I don't mind helping. Well, he's got that right. He'll help
anyone out with anything, including dismemberingand disposing of a body. Like we're
here. I just want to findout your sight of it. I just
talked to your girlfriend. She toldme what happened. She's not rest or.
I'm gonna am I going to bearrested for this. I'm gonna tell

(38:28):
you this. Here's here I got. I gotta talk to you, and
then I gotta call him. Igot was going on. I don't know
what else going on yet. Translation. Yes, you're going to be arrested
for this, but if we tellyou that, then you won't cooperate give
us the information we need to putyou away. So well much start from
the beginning. Basically, we wasat the library. I met Andrew and

(38:52):
his wife Candice. We were talking. We're all we're all listen to v
so I haven't had to a ICPon my arm. He says, so
you're a job and I said,we'll not like I listened to music.
I like him. I want toconsider myself, but I guess because I

(39:13):
listened to what they considered it.So we started talking. They said,
oh, Matt, you get alongjust fine with He listens to ICP continuously.
So they a library. Ah,the library one place where people can
loiter and not get kicked out.A masturbatorium for the homeless. This is

(39:34):
the spot Andrew Forney, his wifeCandace, and Matt usually went to trash
talk Jessica and come up with halfbaked quote unquote business plans like growing tobacco,
rolling cigarettes and shipping them up toNew York where they could be sold
for a higher price. Real youknow, cutting edge genius shit. You

(39:57):
know. Anyway, by the timeAndrew and Candice moved into Justice apartment,
her and Matt's relationship already had problems. Once Matt's friends arrived, they kind
of ganged up on Jessica, decidingcollectively that she was annoying, even though
it was her place. They weretogether, you know, before we got

(40:21):
there. They continued to be acouple until early February. At that point
it started to be an on offthing, and then by the end of
February it was just off. Didjust want you out of the apartment?

(40:42):
Yes? And no. I meanit was one of the weird situations where
we wanted to move out because thestrain of having a broken up couple in
the house is hard on everyone.They would argue a lot tempers with flair,

(41:04):
and it wasn't healthy for anyone.I mean, emotionally speaking, it
wasn't healthy for anyone. What werethey already to go about anything like thered
about money. Occasionally they would argueabout my wife and I being there,
but it was guests who invited usto be there to begin with, and

(41:24):
then she changed her mind later on, at which point we didn't have any
place that we could go to whenwe moved out of my mother in laws.
It's actually her husband who owns thehouse, and he had said,
when you guys moved out, that'sit, you know, moving back.
So if she had kicked us outand we couldn't get an apartment or anything

(41:47):
local, we had nowhere to goto. When did you meet Chris Wright?
And sure, I'd say probably fourdays before then. We met them
at the library in Ravana. Youwho's at the library with you? Because
me and my wife were there andwe ran into Chris and Sharon. You

(42:13):
know the layout of the Urbana library, No I don't, but okay,
describe the computer room that soon closedthat has five computers in it. My
wife and I were in there,Chris and Sharon came in. Chris saw
I was playing a particular Facebook gamethat he also plays. He asked me

(42:35):
how I was doing so well init when he was having trouble. I
gave him some pointers. We startedtalking and then I saw he had a
tattoo on his arm that was aninsane clown posse related and I said,
hey, you listen to IZP.He said, well yeah, we started
talking like that. We decided wewanted to try to hang out with him,

(42:57):
so we left the library and wewent back to the house there.
You know, we told Matt thatwe met this guy and you know,
he likes ICP and all that stuff. And he's like, well, are
they still there at the library,And he said, yeah, they should
be. They still had a goodhour left from the computers. So he
came with us. We drove backto the library. They were just getting

(43:21):
ready to leave. We started talkingand yeah, so you talk with him
there, and then you guys wentand got Matt and then brought Matt back
to the library so that they canmeet. It's like, I can't remember
if the first time I went totheir place or if the first time I
went back to Jess's place, butthe first time we had them over was

(43:42):
when they met Jess. What didthey think of Jess? She was kind
of mixed reaction really at the one. On the one side, they say,
well, she seems nice enough,but there were certain mannerisms of hers
that got on their nerves. Jessliked to get really close to people and

(44:10):
touched them up without permission, likea hand on the shoulder and stuff like
that. She ended up doing thatto Chris, like sitting next to him
with a hand on his shoulder andwas talking to him, and it got
Sharon upset. She you know,didn't say anything right then, but when

(44:30):
when Jess went back into the bedroom, she said, Man, I hate
it when she does stuff like that. Here's Chris's recollection of the first time
they all met. I maybe likehalf an hour later. I think they
came by us and we wanted toshow them me met so I'll always hoped
to meet, you know, newpeople. All made people let her.
So they came to the library andsaid it an hour later, we just

(44:52):
went and we met and he's tellingus that he's Sicilian, and they girl,
Jessica, I'm trying. It's justa lot of shit happens for a
week. Jessica and I didn't likeher, but I wouldn't put it,
you know what I mean. Iwant to do nothing like that to my
worst end. I mean, Igot to like her. She just too

(45:15):
touchy. My girl was upset aboutbecause she always used to do this,
and I tell her she won't listen, but that would be no reason for
you know what I mean. Himand her kept parting. He kept telling
her it was her apartment. Buthe was talking about trying to start up
the family, like an Italian familyor whatever it was, and that he

(45:36):
wanted people in it, my girl, me Andrew Candace, you know,
to start it. And I waslike, I'm Italian. I had a
choice way back then to be partof it. He wanted me to be
his captain. I guess let me. He wanted to be the dome,
which is bullshit? Or don't youdon't just get that. I don't know

(46:00):
if you know anything at the times, you work it way up, You
don't just make that's just like anyof these little so called chet gangs they
have out of here, or youhad to work your way up. According
to the group, three or fourdays passed and the five of them hung
out at Jess's house and at thelibrary, all while talking about how annoying

(46:22):
they thought Jess was. What wereyou guys saying about Jess at that time?
Well, we said, look,this is Matt's x, it's her
place. So she sets rules wehave to you know, live by them
basically, And we said that wewere trying to get our own place to

(46:45):
you know, be able to getaway to talk about how you wish she
wasn't around or your guys as light. That was the whole point of moving
away with we wouldn't have to dealwith her anymore. Well, I think
more long lines of talk about riveror killing her at that time, possibly

(47:06):
in a joking manner, to carryaround a bial of like almond alu or
something like that on an extract thatyou said that, you know, you
could simply get rid of her byputting that in her drink, and she
even Okay, so you said thatwhen I had actually had that for a

(47:30):
couple of weeks and just never doneanything with it. Well understand that.
But you told you told Chris andsharing that though, right, Yeah,
did you talk about that with Matttoo? I didn't tell him that I
had it. He knew that shewas allergic to on an extract. So
yeah, so you guys, youknow, sounds to me like maybe you

(47:52):
guys had somewhat been contemplating some ofthat up to that point. Definitely not
seriously, is it comment for someoneto carry all my extract that in their
pocket. No, no, itis anyway, So you would agree with
this, that's not a common thing, okay. And if someone is potentially

(48:15):
allergic to something and there are commentsbeing made that you'd like to ever kill,
like to get rid of her,liked to something like that, you
could see and then that person stillends up debt. You could see where
we could be in a position tothink maybe there was some more discussions about

(48:35):
that. It's correct. Yeah,But at the same time, Matt was
allergic to peanut butter. We hadpeanut butter in the house all the time.
We had candies with peanut butter allthe time, and we joked at
him whenever one of the person hada racis. We'd say, hey,
look it's chocolate death. But youwould laugh at it. But you didn't
carry that around in your pocket,and you would joke with him about it.

(48:59):
You weren't joking with jests about havingmany elements in your pocket and showing
her and how word Actually one time, yes, I did. We saw
a ball, you know what,cheese ball. It was almond and something
else. She said she was allergictoo, and I said, hey,
look it's a little bottle of death. And she started laughing, and I
said, yeah. When I shood, I pulled the thing out of my

(49:21):
pocket, said hey, look it'sa little bottle of death. And she
started laughing at her. Why wouldyou carry that around your pocket? I
don't know, honestly, as ajoke. When did you start carrying it
around in your pocket? I can'tremember if it was late January or if
it was mid February. It wasit was right about the time they started

(49:45):
to go on again off again.I know that at that time I was
really upset with her, And I'mnot exactly sure what Poochi himself said.
I know that he took Chris asideand went Thomas Street and talked to him.

(50:07):
I heard something to the extent ofwhere he was trying to see if
maybe Chris could do something about itas to take care of her. And
what do you mean take care ofher? What do you mean to kill
her? Go a little bit moreinto that. What do you mean besides

(50:28):
we understand what you mean to takecare of it? You said you had
heard something along What exactly did youhear? Who was around that conversation?
I heard him say that he wasgoing to try to see Chris could kill
her and so that he you know, as an initiation to his little moth

(50:50):
or family. What day would thatconversation have that made this The day after
that we first met Chris, SoTuesday, the day of the actual murder,
nothing truly significant happened. The grouphad just reached their limit with Jessica,
and Matt decided to do something aboutit himself. The crew seemed totally

(51:15):
comfortable discussing the possibility of a murder, so if he did it and asked
for forgiveness later, perhaps they'd bewilling to help him deal with the aftermath.
He knew this would be a multiperson job. Saw like whatever,
So half the stuff he was sayingabout that, I don't believe sometime.

(51:38):
I don't think it was that nightthat night and met him. We stayed
a couple of nights there. Weslew them the floor. I don't know
exactly what. I can't tell youwhat day that he called me in a
room he had a problem with her. I guess out back he understpd a
message from Giovanni from Sicily as shewas trying to get him killed. Don't

(52:02):
out your it was I seen themessage on his home, but I don't
know your what it was, basicallysomething that from an email. It was
an email message that I can't takethat anymore. I don't even know if
it was from her, so Idon't know, but that came through.
Then him and her went the backroom to talk with the door shut.
Me Andrew canvas and sharing her upin the front room, I was playing

(52:28):
all the two desktop computers that wereup there. I'm never The only information
I have on their arguments after theyleft front room is secondhand, all right.
As far as what was happening inthe living room, it was,
you know, all six of uswere in the front watching movies and stuff

(52:54):
on the computers. Jess was wantingattention, and he wanted to take him
into the background to talk, andhe said, look, we have guests.
I don't really feel like going backthere right now. She got upset
and went into the room a littlewhile later he followed her in and they

(53:14):
were in there talking for a while. So the only thing I have on
what they were talking about or arguingabout, is second hand from Matt through
letters that you probably already have.This whole story is so convoluted surely with
five different versions, detectives could siftthrough and uncover something close to the truth.

(53:37):
As per usual, the group ofthem were apparently in the front room,
communicating only through text message. WhenChris got a text from Matt to
come into the back room. Hecalled me in the room. There was
there was a whole year with apole of blood. Her shirt was lifted
up like under moves. There wasa pull of blood. Assist. I

(54:00):
told you if I Ranvera from myit myself. And she's sitting there.
She's feeling cold and this and that. She's barely talking like she wasn't really
she was talking more to him.And when I see the blood, I
have a weak's stomach. That gotme really crazy. So I left the
room. He called me back andI came back in and she was going,

(54:23):
I guess, going in and out, like not of consciousness. But
she was just rambling. You couldn'tunderstand what she was, you know,
like I'm talking to you now youcan hear the words out of my mouth.
I couldn't make half the sentences shewas saying. So he told me
that he said something about he goesthe only reason I did. He's telling

(54:45):
her everything he's doing. The onlyreason that I stabbed you that wasn't to
put you out of your misery.He told her that. He said that
was just to make you weak.And I don't get that one, but
but he told her to make herweak. Then he says, I going
to put a bag in suffragaged tothe room because I'm not. First off,

(55:06):
I almost yet Matt did as hesaid he would, putting a bag
over Jessica's head to suffocate her.She fought him, ripping the first bag
open, so he covered her headwith a second bag until she was no
longer moving. I should have calledyou, guys, and I was,
honestly, I was afraid. Healready suffered with a knife. Once,

(55:30):
what's the same, You guys willmaybe there and I'll be the second one
later there, you know what Imean? I got six kids plus possibly
the way they said, she's notwhat I think she is. Ah,
yes, the old I have tolook out for myself because my children need
me. Excuse where are these childrenanyway? Definitely not with their dad.

(55:52):
So when you leave the room,we hear a little bit, I guess
muffled boys. I mean I startedtalking. No, I think like her
being a suffocated or whatever. Ididn't know what it was exactly. I
didn't know if he did something differentwhatever. Supposedly he coached her and put
the bag over her own head.Do you think she was in any kind

(56:12):
of shape to do that? Thelove that she had for him possibly mean,
I don't think. I don't thinkshe physically could have done that.
She was the way she was righthere, I don't think so. Like
she was just laying on the bed, like like she wasn't moving much.
Her head was moving, But Idon't think she'd actually have the strength to

(56:35):
put a bag and hold it.And plus if I don't myself just to
get a buzz, put my handsthere to make myself do it, you
don't, you don't go out,you'll let gofore it. So he's and
he hitched. I guess scratches onhis arm from her fighting. I guess
back then he called us in theroom, me, my girl, Andrew

(57:00):
Candice all seen in the bag tightly, you know, just she's laying there
lifeless. We're kind of bag andtalking about Walmart bag or Prace right bag
one of a little white plastic bags. Sure, I think it was a
white plastic bag could have been clear. I don't think it was clear though,
and it was just wrap. Eventuallyhe's talking to her when she's not

(57:20):
there anymore, saying, he goes, I told you I got to take
you out, and you know andthis and that. I'm like, oh,
fuck, Now I'm necessary. Idon't want to be, but I'm
in the house. Now I'm necessity. I didn't call the cops, I
said. Oh. Remember Chris Rightand his allegedly pregnant girlfriend Sharon Cook had

(57:43):
only just met the others a fewdays prior, and now they were going
to be intimately involved in helping tocover up a murder for their Juggalo friends.

(58:16):
On March thirty first, twenty twelve, just one day after twenty one
year old Jessica Seco's landlord discovered herpartially dismembered body in the bathtub of her
apartment, five suspects were arrested inconnection to the crime. Urbana police had
in their custody twenty five year oldMatthew Puccio, twenty five year old Andrew

(58:40):
Forny, twenty five year old CandaceForny, thirty eight year old Christopher Wright,
and twenty five year old Sharon Cook. Matthew Puccio was charged with aggravated
murder, felonious assault, felony,gross abuse of a corpse, misdemeanor of
abuse, use of a corpse,possession of criminal tools, and tampering with

(59:02):
evidence. Bail was set at overhalf a million dollars. The rest of
the group faced charges of gross abuseof a corpse, abuse of a corpse,
tampering with evidence, obstructing justice,and failure to report a crime that
bails ranged from thirty thousand dollars toforty two five hundred dollars. Everyone but

(59:25):
Matthew Puccio agreed to take a pleadeal, stipulating that they'd share the whole
truth with investigators. Matthew originally triedto plead not guilty by reason of insanity,
but eventually changed his plea to guilty. Good evening, I'm Eryl mcchanray,
I'm John Paul James Brown is offand Urbana woman suffered for hours before

(59:47):
she was killed. That's according tothe man who told us he's the one
who killed her, he said ofseventh. Jessica Heffner talked to the now
confessed killer in the Tri County jailand has this exclusive interview Jessica. Well,
there are five people in jail forthe murder of Jessica Ray Sacho.
I asked all five to talk tome about what happened, but only the
main suspect, Matthew Puccio, agreed, and he says about that day is

(01:00:13):
disturbing and police are still evaluating howmuch of it they actually believe. Why
did you kill her? Honestly don'tknow. He was brought in from the
jail in handcuffs. He told mehe only agreed to this interview to tell
his side of the story of whathis relationship with Jessica Ray Sacho was really
like. He says her personality drewthem together a year and a half ago,

(01:00:37):
being there for me when I wasgoing through psychotic breaks. She held
me in, told me it'll beall right. But the night of March
twenty first they got into an argument, one, he said, started because
he'd received text messages Sacho wanted himdead. I said, if you help
me out of your life, Ican just do it myself. Once she

(01:00:59):
I can't be so for sec thatyou have four kiss to think about.
That's when he claimed Sacho started begginghim to kill her. A corner ruled
she died of suffocation. Please sayhe used a bag, but Puccio admitted
that's not what happened. First,she was pleading with me to slash her
throat, sasha wrist, do something, and I told her, no,

(01:01:22):
I can't do that to you,and she told me to stab her then,
so I just held my hand aboveher stomach. She grabbed my wrist
and pulled it into her stomach.So how did the bag get into the
situation? The bag that please sayyou put over her head to suffocate her,
that didn't come into the situation untilabout six and a half seven hours

(01:01:45):
later, after I stabbed her.Puccio claims he held a knife in front
of her torso, but she reachedfor it, and he claims she made
him stab her. He also saidhe wrapped the wound, held her,
and, in his words, gaveher a final kiss. She asked me
if I could just let her diarrating. I thought, there's only one way

(01:02:06):
I can do that. There's notgoing to be pleasant, he cried as
he described grabbing a plastic bag andputting it over her head. Weak from
the knife wound, he said itonly took seconds. I just liked next
her and cried, kept telling herI'm sorry for hours. He debated his

(01:02:28):
next move. He then says hecalled four friends also in jail now for
help. Why whine hit up herbody? Scared, he said, they
jumped the body parts in some woodsin Kentucky. He then went to Hamilton
to wait. It would be eightdays before police would find her body.
During that time, Puccio said hetried to come to terms with what he

(01:02:51):
did. When police came for him, he says, he confessed, we
have no right to take someone else'slife. I dont matter what the scenario
is that he did know, andI have to live at death. Our
friend of Sachos told me she'd beenurging her to kick Putio out of her
apartment not long before she was killed. Pouccio told me he plans to plead

(01:03:15):
guilty and deserves the death penalty.Well, Matthew, Puccio was telling one
hundred and one different versions of whathappened and why the others began spilling the
beans in order to keep their pleadeals alive. Unlike Jessica. Of course,
that night we ended up having tostay there me and my girl and

(01:03:37):
little the other two were staying alittle Me and my girl ended up staying
there because he told us to staythere. He's slept next to the boty
indivdure. Wow, that's yeah.And that right there got me even worse
because if he says he said Columbineand all the mother had nothing on him

(01:03:57):
me. So I don't know.I'm still I'm afraid to watch this movie
The Collector. He gave me amovie, or watch The Collector. And
then he says that's nothing to Godof what he could do. And the
description of the collector he keeps bodyparts his trophies. It's just disgusting.
I don't want somebody body part isa trophy to bring in the next No,

(01:04:19):
I don't know the movie. I'mstill refusing to watch it. But
oh it's just And then the nextday by tell me tell me about that
is what was his reason for cuttingit out? To get rid of it.
Okay, so he was collecting partsfrom no, but no, but

(01:04:42):
that's what that's what when he toldme about the movie first, I was
like, oh, don't tell methis. No, he wanted to get
rid of the parts. The partsare not sure where they're at. Okay,
so how did you guys get ridof the top. It took four
of us. It was only himand Andrew in the beginning trying. Then
he asked me, I grabbed Ithink it one of her legs to try.
I don't know why I did it. I was scared of him.

(01:05:06):
I didn't you know what I mean. It's it's just a body who's before
and then three of us. Andrew'sa big boy, and I don't know
if you met Andrew. Andrew's abig boy with me and I'm one hundred
and ninety thousand strong. With threeof us trying to lift her, it
was dead weight, not no punintended, but it was, you know,

(01:05:27):
it was happy we could get thething in the tumble. So Sharon
help him. So we each grabbedthe leg and an arm got her,
got her and then to him.Finally we had to drag her. He
wanted it off in bed for somereason, and I was afraid. So
understand she didn't want to deal with. Trust me right, tell you go

(01:05:47):
off the cutting up? Who elsecutting it off? He had? He
had Andrews start, told him todo it. And what did Andrew do?
Started with what's he using to cuther up? Diving knife? I
think it was. I think itwas a diving n he had. He

(01:06:08):
had about three. There was twoswords. He tried with the sword first,
and then who tried the store firstand try with one of them kata
swords. Right, let's go backto a very first show visual statement.
Yeah, I believe the first onewas when Matt came out and told you
she was dead. That you guyswent then and picked her up and took

(01:06:30):
her into the bathroom and put herin the tub. I was and then
started cutting her left arm off.I was mistaken with that. I was
mistaken. I was a shock.That is part of the ironia statement.
Okay, so you're saying now thathe comes out and says she's dead or

(01:06:51):
whatever, I mean, how isthat how he put it or what did
what did he say? Yeah,he said she's dead. I showed her.
Okay, So then you guys decidedto go to sleep, and then
that's about what time in mor Indieyou know it was. It was between

(01:07:12):
seven and nine in the morning whenwe went to sleep. Woke up somewhere
between eleven and one. Okay,so you wake up between eleven and one,
and the decision at that point iswhat that Matt said, Hey,
look, I've been thinking about it. We should move her into the bathroom
and cut up the body to beable to hide it. Okay, now,

(01:07:38):
when we first thought you said thatwas your idea. Whether it was
my idea or is it was broughtup at that point. Who knew how
to cut her up? It's notsomething that you just do on a whim,
right. I made incision marks superficialat the different joints in whatever to

(01:08:03):
show where Matt should cut. Mattdid the majority of the cutting, and
then I removed the fingers too,because Matt said, well, if we
leave the fingers on there, thenthe body will be easier to identify if
the parts are ever found. Okay, why did you leave the head?
Then we got to a point wherewe felt we just couldn't continue because of

(01:08:30):
what reasons, one time constraints tosmell. It would have been to a
finished cutting up the body in theway that Matt decided he wanted to do
it after the idea was brought forth. It would have involved cutting open the
abdomen and removing you know, theorgans and so forth, which is going

(01:08:54):
to create a unbelievable smell, andthat would have alerted the name to something
going on. And so when itgot two late enough in the day of
cutting, Chris and I just lookedat each other and said, no,
we this needs to stop now becauseit's you know, this is just as

(01:09:18):
far as it should go. Period. This this situation where you've murdered and
partially dismembered an innocent young woman inher own house, that's as far as
it should go, according to Andrewand Chris. Dismember her body. You
don't take the head off, youcan't get the arm off. You're undertime

(01:09:41):
and strange smell, all that stuff. What do you guys do with the
body parts? The body parts wereplaced into those trash bags with the intention
of removing them and ditching them atanother location where the original intention was to

(01:10:02):
leave. Basically, put one limbin each trash bag and leave them at
different dumpsters throughout town here in Urbana, and they would have been in public
trash cans and so forth, andmost likely not searched. Was the thought
process there. We couldn't find locationsthat suited our purposes, so they ended

(01:10:28):
up being transported down with us toHamilton, at which point the people that
we were staying with, that's SusanHunt, which is Linda and Epstein's mother,
said that she would take him toditch the body parts on their way
down into Kentucky when she was goingto pick up her youngest children. I'm

(01:10:53):
really not sure why this Linda ladywas not arrested. Maybe somebody in the
audience could clue me in. That'sa question we just weren't able to answer.
How on earth did the stars alignso perfectly that at minimum six people
were involved in the cover up.Everyone Jessica surrounded herself with in her final

(01:11:15):
six months of life was against her. Literally everyone did you call ems?
Or nine on one? I didn'twent on Honestly, I've been told that
I'm loyal to a fault, andI would say that was definitely a fault

(01:11:36):
in not calling. I don't thinkthat he was completely in control of himself
when that happened, but and assuch, I became protective of him and
didn't want him to suffer for somethinghe did in a crazy moment. But

(01:11:59):
you when jess took thirty some aspirinand eight tremadil over trimmadol or whatever it
was. You call EMS nine onone and have him come pick her up,
because she didn't want her to die. But Matt stabs her. You
got a little bit of a cuton her shirt, a little bit of

(01:12:21):
a blood. This isn't a wombto her neck, This isn't a womb
to her wrists, This isn't youknow, there's not blood all over the
place. You don't think to callnine on one or EMS at that point
to try to save her life.At that point, even though you tried
to save her life when she tooka bunch of pills with no blood involved,

(01:12:43):
and she try to take her ownlife. I'm sure this is about
to sound screwed up, but Idon't ever believe that suicide is the answer
to anything. I feel extremely strongabout that as such, whether I liked
her at that time or not,I called EMS and made sure she was

(01:13:06):
taking care off. I had actuallywanted her and was trying to convince her
to stay checked in at that mentalhospital for longer, because honestly she needed
that. She was extremely depressed ona long term basis. What we got
to Facebook messages, You guys backand forth that were closer to her death,

(01:13:30):
that where you guys don't like herat all, you're basically just staying
there because you needed a roof overyour head and you didn't want to sleep
in the van. Yeah, okay, so let's not go into a whole.
And they had a representation that's notI mean, the guys didn't light
as the time. The reason whyI didn't call her right then is because,
honestly, since I knew he wasn'tthinking straight or thinking at all,

(01:13:54):
I didn't want him to get butfor a small little, for a small
little is the longest the soul.F two carries the penalty today as opposed
to murder that carries potential death paloty. Again, I was not thinking clearly,
and I'm freely admitting that. Sowould it be safe to say that

(01:14:20):
you guys expressed your displeasure with Jessand how you guys didn't like her care
for you guys talked about wishing hergone with Christ and then never got mad.
Yeah, you guys talk about killingher with Christ and chair I didn't.

(01:14:45):
I mean, I got mad andI said, stupid shiit, what's
the stupid ship? He said like, I did wish her gone. I
got so mad, but after thefact I didn't really don't know. I
guess I wish she would have justbetter mean way or I didn't want just

(01:15:13):
Yes, they did want it tohappen, and then it happened. Cause
and effect consequences to actions. Howmany times have we told this story.
This group of quote unquote loyal peoplewould have been thrilled if Jessica had stayed

(01:15:36):
institutionalized after a suicide attempt so theycould just live freely in her house without
her around. That didn't happen,though, so they took it upon themselves
to allow the craziest among them tocarry out this horrible act while they stood
by and watched, waiting to helpclean it all up when it was all

(01:16:01):
said and done. Now, listen, you're going to be very disappointed when
you hear the prison sentences for thesedegenerate morons. Matthew Puccio received a sentence
of life in prison with the possibilityof parole after thirty years for the aggravated

(01:16:23):
murder charge and an additional twelve yearsfor the other charges. Oh yeah,
and one of the people matt wascheating on Jessica with was a fourteen year
old girl, so he copped anadditional three years for that. His co
defendants received varied sentences. Andrew Fornygot just ten years in prison. Wow,

(01:16:47):
Candice Forni got six years because youknow she's female. She did have
to forfeit her van though the vehicleused to transport Jessica's body parts. Christopher
Wright got just four years, andhis girlfriend Sharon Cook got three With good

(01:17:08):
behavior, that's like a cake walk. The Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Correction
states that Christopher Wright is currently afugitive and is at large, most likely
for violation of the terms of hisparole. Hearing these sentences, you're probably
realizing that everyone except for Matthew isout of prison. Andrew even has his

(01:17:33):
own brand new Facebook account. Believeit or not, go say hi,
Actually, don't just stay the fuckaway. Stay the fuck away from these
people, all of them. Nothinggood can come from surrounding yourself with people
like this, a lesson Jessica shouldhave learned, but didn't. Unfortunately.

(01:17:59):
Isn't it just crazy how some peoplecan make egregious mistakes in their life and
then walk away a few years later, like nothing ever happened. All of
the perpetrators in this case have familymembers who now have to live with this
horrible stain on their family name.Most importantly, this crime took Jessica Saco

(01:18:23):
away from her loving parents and siblings. She may not have been perfect,
she may have had demons and issues. Hell, she may have even been
annoying. Who knows, but whocares. She was innocent. She deserved
a chance to live, to learn, to grow as a person, to

(01:18:46):
realize that insane clown posse is notgood music period. And I don't mean
to make light of the situation.It's a really horrible, horrible thing happened
here, but I can't help butfeel for Jessica's poor mom, who tried
to give her a chance, whotried to steer her in the right direction.

(01:19:12):
But at some point you got tolet the little baby bird out of
the nest and hope for the best. And life doesn't always turn out the
way you hope it will. Allright, that's going to do it for

(01:19:43):
another one. Thank you so muchfor joining us. And again, if
this is the last thing on yourfeed, and this is the last time
you've heard me, and it's beenweeks and weeks. Maybe you want to
head on over to Swordinscale dot comdownload our new app and go check that
out, which is, by theway, launching it just a little over
a week now, So go tellyour friends. It's got a little buzz
going like it's twenty seventeen. Welllet's go. No, we want the

(01:20:34):
calls all the more reasons I havethe calls. If they don't like the
calls, keep the calls. Ilove the call. So that's my opinion.
By a Mike is Jack's don't getrid of the comments. At at
the end, you know people arepaying the app. If I like the

(01:20:54):
comments, there are some people whoreally could use the course of paraphrasing,
so they can just you know,get the point across and then take up.
But that's not your problem. Keepthe comments. I think you need
to hear the love all right,keep doing a good jobs. So by
Mike is Nicole Coomplin. I've beenlistening to you for ten years and the

(01:21:17):
best part of your well the bestversion show is you, of course,
but I really do look forward tothose called Debbie end. Don't ever stop
that you please me. Once itwas the most amazing moment of my life
and please don't stop doing it.It's part of your your signature. Okay.

(01:21:40):
Anyway, looking forward to the TVshow You Say Say Blood not by Dido did