Episode 261

65-year-old Marilyn Gandert worked for the U.S. Postal Service for over 30 years. She was a solitary woman who lived alone and was getting ready to sell her house and retire. Tragically, Marilyn was never able to enjoy her retirement. In January of 2018, her mangled and charred remains were found on a backroad in Rio Rancho, New Mexico. Someone had brutally beaten and stabbed Marilyn to death, covered her in gasoline, and burned her body.

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Sword and Scale contains adult themes andviolence, and is not intended for all
audiences. Listener discretion is advised.Is there anything you would want to tell
her or anyone else? Or didyou burn her body? No? I
have no idea of it. Youdon't know how she ended up burned.

(00:26):
Hi. This is Sword and Scaleseason eleven, episode twudred sixty one,
a show that reveals that the worstmonsters are real. Thank you for joining
us this week. We have alot to tell you about. First of
all, Swordan Scale Television premieres veryvery very soon, if not already,

(00:46):
you can watch right now if yougo to Swordanscale dot com and a click
watch now. It's it's not thathard. But just so that you know,
we are still making lots of improvementsto the app and the website,
lots of little things, lots ofthings you've been telling us over and over
again. You know. One ofthe things we'd like to encourage you to

(01:06):
do is to read more. Ithink it's important for all of us to
become more educated and read more.So read the comment before you comment,
because someone else may have had,oh I don't know, exactly the same
thought two seconds ago and already expressedit for all to read. Listen,

(01:26):
I'm cranky. I haven't had mycoffee yet. Anyway, have you heard
of the store? Go on overto store do Towardskill dot com. We
got all kinds of new merch,all kinds of cool shit. Check it
out if you like murdery stuff withour logo on it. I don't.
I don't know. I don't Whyam I even still doing this? Just
go ahead and do whatever you wantall the time. I don't care whatever

(01:48):
you want. Really, That's that'sall I got to say. Enjoy the
show. You owe me. Youowe me for the hundreds of true crime

(02:23):
stories that I've told you over theyears. You owe me for the many
hours of entertainment that I've graciously givenyou. You owe me for all the
hard work I've put into the show. You owe me, And don't you
forget it. I'm sorry. Didthat sound a little entitled? If my

(02:49):
sense of entitlement strikes you as unflattering, that's because it is. It's quite
ugly. In fact, a senseof entitlement is a narcissistic personality trait,
and it's pretty obvious. Most peopledon't like it when someone insists that they
deserve something, when in reality,they don't deserve a damn thing. I

(03:15):
was kidding, by the way,you don't owe me anything. No one
owes anyone anything, generally speaking.But I can admit and acknowledge that I
do carry around a little bit ofentitlement. Most of us do. But
we either consciously or subconsciously recognize thatit's an unflattering characteristic, so we work

(03:43):
on it. We try to suppressit, or at the very least,
we try to keep it in check. There are some, however, that
have no problem letting their extreme senseof entitlement shine. You've ever watched any
number of Karen videos online, thenyou know exactly what I'm talking about.

(04:05):
Some of you may have even caughtthe Karen bug, you know, the
ones perpetually complaining about what they're notgetting from a ten dollars optional podcast subscription
in the comment section of every singleepisode. You know who you are.
Those of us with a slightly moreacute sense of self awareness wonder what makes

(04:31):
people act this way. An extremesense of entitlement can be developed in a
number of ways. One of themost common ways usually relates to how a
person has been treated in the past. When someone or a group of people
are routinely given what they want,they can develop the idea that their wants

(04:56):
are just owed to them. Itscommon for children to have this mentality,
but they usually grow out of itand begin to understand that life is about
give and take. They learn that, in general, if you want something,
you have to earn it. Unfortunately, not everyone develops this understanding.

(05:21):
Some full ass grown adults hold firmto their sense of entitlement, and when
things that were once handed to themare suddenly taken away, well that's when
they lash out. They get angry. They might scream or yell, they

(05:41):
might get violent. In fact,they might even commit murder. On the

(06:10):
night of January twenty sixth, twentyeighteen, a middle aged woman in Rio
Rancho, New Mexico, was drivinghome from work. Her commute was one
that she had made many times before, but on this particular night, she
noticed something unusual. While driving alonga somewhat well traveled back road, she

(06:32):
saw a smoldering pile of well somethingthat was laid out on the road in
front of her. The pile letoff a small cloud of black smoke and
its glowing orange umbers suggested that whatevershe was looking at was very recently on

(06:55):
fire. I was coming home.I could see it off to the side,
but I couldn't see what it wasat all. When you drove through,
were you able to drive around itor did you? I drove around
it. No, I drove aroundit. I couldn't see anything because it
was dark. My headlights are verygood, but I wasn't going to get

(07:15):
out of my car either. Youknow, I'm not stupid. But so
I came home and we talked aboutit for a while, and so I
went to bed, woke up atabout ten tinish and said, I'm going
to go up and take a look. The woman drove home, She told

(07:36):
her roommates about what she saw,and then she went to bed. The
next morning, she decided she wantedto take a closer look at what she
had seen the night before. Iwent up there, and I still didn't
think it was real, and itjust did not look real to me.
It was horrible. It looked likewhat you saw. For me. I

(08:00):
could see the head, I couldsee the two arms, the face.
It looks like a female. Ican tell you that. Now that the
sun was up. The woman returnedto what she saw during her commute home,
and she couldn't believe what she discovered. Lying on a burned mattress was

(08:22):
a severely mangled and charred human corpse. Actually, as I was walking away,
I could see the restraints restraints.Yeah, the person was bound with
metal, with wire or something.The arm was broken. I could see
that the mouth looked round like formingan o. The right foot was missing.

(08:50):
It looked like it had been cutoff from about here, maybe even
higher. It was creepy. Imean, there's no nice way to put
it. You know, some personlest their life and whoever decided to dump
it on a road that is welltraveled. You can tell the roads well
travel why most people would not dumpa body on a well traveled road.

(09:16):
This woman had a good question,why would someone dump a body in a
well traveled road? Along with thatquestion, the cops in Rio Rancho were
wondering a few other things too,like who was this dead person, how
did they die? And more importantly, who put them there. Meanwhile,

(09:37):
about twenty miles south, a concernedman in Albuquerque was making a phone call
to nine one one Albuquerque Police operatedthree four six months. How can I
help you? Yes? This acourage and we're going to have called about
And I also rooms enough for somepersons. My sister's house and she's not

(09:58):
here in the modus I was sendingoffice. What's the address where you're out,
sir. Sixty two year old HarryGandert lived in Albuquerque, and for
the last day or two he'd beentrying to reach his sister, Marylyn,
who he knew was pretty reliable whenit came to returning his phone calls.

(10:18):
Okay, and I'm sorry, canI get your name one more time?
Ryder Tomas other? And what's yoursister's name, Marylyn Ganders? Okay?
How well? Did Okay? Vehicleshere and that's how she travels. I
mean, my note that I leftyesterday is still in the door. I'm

(10:45):
getting worried now. Okay, Ineed to make a bitter First we went
inside the house that it was yesterday, So vehicles here. So if he
went with afraid of his Okay,if she was a he, she should
have called him. She was amother. Room. Okay, Well,

(11:07):
just right light there, I'm goingto get an offer make contact with you
shortly. Sixty five year old MarilynGandert worked for the US Postal Service for
over thirty years, and according toher co workers, she was very dependable,
a colleague that was a joy tobe around, working when Maryland was
just relaxing. That's the best wordto use is that she put it ease

(11:30):
to you if you know, thingsdidn't get to her. She didn't sweat
this more stuff. When asked,Harry described a sister as a great person.
In fact, he told police thatMarylyn was the perfect sister and that
she was always there for him whenhe needed her. Harry reported Marylynd missing,
but unfortunately he couldn't direct the AlbuquerquePolice towards many leads. Marilyn Gander

(11:54):
lived alone and was a solitary person. She mostly kept to herself and didn't
have a lot of close friends.She did, however, have a best
friend. Her name was Nancy Robinson. Nancy worked alongside Marilyn at the post
office for a long time, andover the years the two of them had

(12:16):
to come quite close. How didyou know, Marilyn? We were together
in the post office, same station, thinks probably twelve fifteen years years and
then we were friends outside of that, went to Bible study together, spent
time with her and her husband fordays. You know that kind of stuff.

(12:39):
Marilyn's husband passed away long before Marilynwent missing. Several years later,
tragedy struck again when Marilyn lost heronly child. Marilyn's forty two year old
son, Ryan Bickett, killed himselfwhile playing Russian Roulette. If for some
reason you're not familiar, Russian Rouletteis a deadly game of chance where a

(13:05):
person places one bullet and a revolverspins the cylinder, points the muzzle at
their head, and pulls the trigger. You basically have a one in six
chance of killing yourself. In casethis isn't obvious, people usually don't play
this game unless they're severely suicidal.In Ryan's case, he was both severely

(13:31):
suicidal and extremely unlucky. Ryan's deatheffect m J's heartbroke. Of course,
it's your only child she had,you know, Like most mothers, cremated
remains that she wore around her andin She's paid the extra money to bring

(13:54):
the report to her house. Shehad all the pictures. She would wake
up every morning at a certain time. When he lost his life, it
was a big deal. As expected, the death of her son was devastating
for Marilyn, but the silver liningwas that she still had her daughter in

(14:15):
law in Ryan's wife. Ryan's wifewas forty three year old Elisa Bickett,
and Marilyn also had a grandchild inRyan's son. He was twenty year old
Drake Bickett. Marilyn had a bigheart. Her interaction with Drake that I
would see she was trying to begrandmotherly with him. Same thing with Elissa.

(14:43):
She looked at Elisa as her daughter. She treated her like her daughter,
much like Harry Gandert. When Marilynwent missing, Nancy was quick to
notice that Marilyn wasn't responding to phonecalls or text messages, which was quite
out of character. And so whendid you start becoming concerned? Honestly,

(15:07):
I started to get a real badvibe on Thursday night I called her,
and then I called her later.I couldn't get a hold of her,
and the feeling got worse, worseand worse. And you would text.
When you text Maryland or call Maryland, you get pretty much an immediate response.
Called her on Saturday and said didyou go back to work? I
haven't heard from you. I'm concerned, etc. Etc. And then by

(15:33):
the time Sunday morning came. WhenI woke up six or seven o'clock,
I left the house in my pajamas, in my robe and said, Marylynd,
I'm coming for you, because youjust knew something was wrong. After
Marylyn was reported missing, the firstplace that police went looking was Maryland's home.

(15:54):
The responding officers discovered that Maryland's backdoor was left wide open, so
they went inside, but there wasno sign of Marylyn. The house seemed
undisturbed, but the police did noticesomething strange. Marilyn's house keys were left
hanging on her front door. Knobwho leaves their house without their keys.

(16:18):
The responding officers knew something was wrong, so they decided to visit another house
that Marilyn owned. It was aneighboring property that Marilyn had been renting out
to her daughter in law Alissa.When police arrived at this second house,
they spoke to Alyssa, who wasin the process of moving out and was

(16:41):
half expecting Marylyn to pop on by. Yeah. I haven't expected her to
come on, but I didn't thinkanything of it though. She probably just
you know, like sometimes she getsmad and at even talk to the Marilyn's
brother, her best friend, andher daughter in law were almost always in
regular contact with Maryland, but thethree of them told police that they didn't

(17:04):
know where Maryland was. She hadseemingly just vanished. Meanwhile, back in
Rio Rancho, a middle aged womandiscovered a mangled and smoldering corpse on a
back road. After she told roommatesabout what she found, one of those
roommates called nine one one, SaniboCounty, nine one one, what is

(17:27):
the exact location of the emergency outhere? Encino and Northern We think we
found a body out here. It'sit's in a road and somebody had put
it on like a mattress or somethingand burned it. And so it's a
mattress with something burned on the topof it. Yeah, and it looks

(17:49):
like it has boned in it andyou can see intestines and guts and I
don't know, it looks like ithas a head and hands and arms,
and well, okay, and areyou going to be around for officers?
Why care? And I can walkfor us up there. After the police
arrived on the scene, they quicklyconfirmed there was indeed a charred human corpse

(18:15):
lying on a road in Rio Rancho, after which they promptly questioned the people
that reported it, when you gotthere, what did you There was smoke?
You can tell something bringing I waslike, what was that? I
think it's a body? Okay,did you walk up to what you suburning?

(18:37):
Yeah, we're parked, you cango around like but we didn't go
around it. We just backed uppoint of left too. And we were
there for maybe three minutes of that. Oh really, well, because you
both feel really creeped out, likesomeone was watching us. Okay, I
really feel like something is needless tosay, finding a dead body is a
terrible experience for anyone to have,but in this particular case, and because

(19:03):
of the horrific state of the body, it was especially traumatic for everyone that
happened to witness it. Tell meagain what you observed. I'm bad,
bad thing. It was really badman. But it's important for me to
understand what you saw. Right.That person suffered, bad man, the

(19:26):
suffered bad. What makes you thinkit's a person? I don't know.
I can't. I could tell thatthere was a sugar like sticking out and
there was intestine on the other side. It was bad. It's the first
thing I ever saw in my life. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm
sorry you saw it. Man,you get to see with us on how

(19:49):
you do that. I mean tomorrowwe'll putting a cross up there, because
that's soul hasterus. It's not underWithin a day, the news of this
dead body reached the Albuquerque area andthe detectives that were searching for Maryland.

(20:11):
Soon after, the body was identifiedthrough dental records and confirmed to be sixty
five year old postal worker Marylyn Gandert. Following that revelation, Albuquerque homicide detectives
went to work and they expected tofind out who had brutally murdered this poor

(20:33):
woman, who had dumped the body, who had burned it, and why.

(21:10):
In January of twenty eighteen, themangled and smoldering corpse of sixty five
year old postal worker Marilyn Gandert wasfound on a back road in Rio Rancho,
New Mexico. After the body wascollected and an autopsy was performed,
the medical examiner and homicide detectives wereable to determine what likely happened to Maryland.

(21:36):
Someone had brutally beaten and stabbed herto death after she was dead.
The killer or someone else drove thebody to Rio Rancho, dropped a mattress
on the road and put Marylyn ontop of it. Then they doused her
in gasoline and lit the body onfire before away. The medical examiner also

(22:03):
determined that there were no signs ofsexual trauma to Marilyn's body, but there
were ligature marks on her wrists andankles, so Marylyn was likely bound either
before or during the murder. Whendetectives began investigating this homicide, one of
the first things they tried to figureout was where the murder happened. They

(22:29):
examined Marilyn's house, but didn't findany signs of a struggle or any significant
traces of blood. They quickly determinedthat the murder probably didn't happen at Maryland's
home. Then they set their eyeson another property that Marilyn owed. It
was a neighboring house that Marilyn hadbeen renting out to her daughter in law,

(22:52):
Elissa Bikett, who happened to bein the process of moving out when
Marylynd was first reported missing. Namesare first off for investigating for disepurance,
I believe with your mom, weactually want to secure the hours. Okay,

(23:12):
I'm just trying to get all mystuff out there, like all right,
so unfortunately I can't want see whatI can. Sorry, I need
to get I have things in there. I literally have everything that I'm taking
to my hotel, and so myparents we understand that, okay, but
at this point we're going to securethe residents. Why okay, we're doing
the search walk, I can relyutil Do you have the warrant? Then

(23:34):
I want to get my things outfirst? Why secure for WALK? I
need to get my fans win.My name is Alissa. Forty three year
old Alyssa Bickett wasn't overly thrilled thata bunch of cops were about to be
invading her home and rifling through allher stuff, but given that she had
no other options, she relented anda search warrant was executed on her home.

(24:00):
After that was being done, Alyssawas informed that Marilyn's body had been
found, and Alyssa was taken tothe local police station for questioning. Do
you know why you're here today?They told me because Marilyn died. I
didn't know she died. Okay,so you said that you had heard she

(24:21):
was dead. Yes, okay,how did you hear that? One of
the detectives told me, so itis. It is true that Marilyn is
deceased. Okay, how do youknow Marilyn? She's my mother in law,
mother in law. I don't knowhow to say it. It was
my husband, but he passed away. It's her, it was his mom.
Okay. And when he passed away, you were still married to yes,
okay. Do you and her sonwhat's her son's name, Ryan?

(24:44):
Ryan? How long were you andRyan married? Twenty three years? Twenty
three years? And how did youpass away? Shut himself in front of
me? Okay, I'm sorry tohear that. How long ago was that?
August twenty fourteen? Again, thiswasn't the first horrific tragedy that had
struck this family. Back in twentyfourteen, Alyssa's husband and Marilyn's son,

(25:07):
Ryan Bickett, killed himself while playingRussian Roulette. According to Alyssa, that
suicide happened right in front of her. How is your relationship with Marilyn prior
to that before Ryan committed Okay?I mean and you were married twenty three
years? Wow? Okay? Andyour relationship was okay with Marylyn. Okay,

(25:32):
and since Ryan has passed away,how is your relationship? I was
okay, I'm just off and on. I just really didn't talk to her
very much after the death. Okay. Any hard of feelings, I guess
you could say about she was aboutyou. How come sometimes she thought I
should have left him because he wasvery abusive. Oh, then if you
would have left him, you wouldn'tknow he might not have killed himself.

(25:56):
So maybe a little figure pointing aswell. Yeah. Alyssa claim that Marilyn
had some resentment towards her, andMarilyn seemed to believe that if Alyssa wasn't
in Ryan's life, Ryan wouldn't havekilled himself. Despite this, Marilyn allowed
Alyssa to remain living in the samehouse that she and Ryan shared, which

(26:18):
was owned by Marilyn. The onlycondition that Marilyn had was a reasonable one.
She expected that Alissa pay rent.Unfortunately, Alyssa didn't live up to
her end of the deal, soMarilyn began the process of evicting Alyssa.

(26:40):
When Marilyn was first reported missing,and responding officers went to the house that
Alyssa was renting, Alyssa didn't mentionanything about being evicted. She only told
him that she was moving out fordetectives. That was kind of a big
red flag. And I didn't workfor six years when he was alive.

(27:00):
He didn't let me work, soyou know, I got a job right
away, but I sometimes, youknow, I wouldn't have a job sometimes,
So okay, yeah, so isit? When I tried to talk
to her and she kind of workedwith me, she said she was going
to meet me, and I said, okay, you know whatever, Okay,
who lives at the forty seventy fifteentwo of the Ridge with you?
It was Annie Rael. Melissa sharedthe house she was renting with two people,

(27:26):
her twenty year old son Drake andher close friend, twenty eight year
old Annie Rael. So how didyou end up meeting Alyssa? How long
ago was that? We'd be like, it's been over a year over here
probably, And then how did youend up moving in with her? I'm

(27:47):
going through the worst, and shewas unhappy, and she kind of offered
and I accepted. Alissa and Anniemet in twenty seventeen and became friends.
Before long, Alyssa offered to letAnnie live with her in the house she
was renting. While there, Anniemet and occasionally interacted with Marilyn gandert if

(28:12):
it was like exciving her chrisiss orone of those she gave us. Well
then ham and like food, likethey did get long. Okay, you
know I have seen them get along. According to Annie, the relationship between
Alyssa and Marilyn was on occasion cordial, but on other occasions it was clear

(28:37):
that the relationship was breaking down,mostly because Alyssa wasn't paying rent and because
you know, she wasn't even takinggood care of the house anyway. Well,
it seems like Marilyn and Alyssa arehaving a dispute over the conditions of
the house, maybe some payments,just not really getting along about stuff.
Right. But I went out therewhile she was getting ready to leave and

(29:02):
just talked to her and was like, Alyssa's trying, she's she's a good
girl, like she does try andshe I don't know. I was just
trying to make the peace. Itwent really well. But I guess she
didn't know who that I was outing. She didn't know it was me.
Did she know that you were stayingthere? Well? Speaking with detectives.

(29:23):
Alyssa and Nannie seemed to downplay theissues that Marilyn was having with Alyssa in
the house, But according to Marilyn'sbest friend Nancy, Marilyn was at her
wits end. She had just hadwith Alissa. She loved Alyssa. Over
the years, she did everything shepossibly could for Alyssa, and it was

(29:45):
actually Alissa who was angry with Marylyn. Marilyn supported them entirely for many years,
as opposed to her own so,and then after Ryan died, there
was a period of time where shewanted the whole situation to change. She

(30:07):
was hoping that Alyssa could begin topair some rent, that kids could work,
something could happen so that they couldstill live there and she wouldn't have
to be able to support them entirely. Again, Marilynd's expectations were entirely reasonable.
If Alyssa was going to live inMaryland's house, she would have to

(30:30):
pay rent. But apparently Alissa justdidn't like that arrangement. Well This's response
was that too okay? Now,because Ryan's not here, You're not going
to take care of us anymore?She said, yeah, I can't,
You know, you have to havesome income. You have to help me
here. I want to retire.So as she attempted to make that work

(30:53):
with them, and Alyssa was veryunhappy with the fact that she was now
going to have to pay some Shetell me about the bits and pieces of
money that would come in, andit never came in like it was supposed
to, and there were promises.Despite her objections, Alyssa did agree to

(31:15):
pay rent, but she never actuallylived up to the promise to do so.
On top of that, Alissa dida pretty poor job of taking care
of the house. It looked whenI was there, it looked as if
somebody got angry, wasn't or drunk. It was my pressure, drunk,
angry whatever, and just trashed it. You know. People do stuff like

(31:38):
that. They put their fists throughthe wall, they bring things, and
it didn't look like it had beenbasically kept up anyway. Finally, after
giving Alissa several opportunities to turn thingsaround, Marilyn decided that Alyssa had run
out of chances and began the processof having a Lisa evicted. Maryland's long

(32:02):
term plan was to eventually sell thehouse. She had resigned herself that she
was done with the whole thing,tired of putting that emotion out there,
tired of putting the bill. Shewas done. She was going to sell
this house because she wanted to retire. We work hard at the post office.

(32:22):
So she was just kind of hadbeen done with it. After hearing
about the drama and conflict between Alyssaand Marylyn, Albuquerque homicide detectives felt like
they had a plausible motive for murder, so they questioned Alyssa about the eviction.

(32:43):
So, am I correct by sayingthat eventually you guys were evicted?
Yes? How did that come about? Because we were paying? She just
said, And I didn't go tocourt, I just because I knew I
didn't want to. There was nothingto argue about. Did she actually take
it to court? Like, oh, okay, and you didn't show up,
you know, because I knew what'sthere? Argue? I mean,

(33:06):
what am I going to go say? I know I'm not paying rent,
you know, so I'm just letit go. And you know, I
mean, but I did ask her, you know, maybe we can work
this out still, and she saidno, And I said, okay,
you know, how did you feelabout her evicting you? I was a
little upset, but then I cameto terms with it. I was like,
my husband died here. You know, my son doesn't get it's not

(33:27):
good for him. It's not goodfor his mental So but it's not like,
I mean I don't hate her.I just you know, I don't
I mean, never tell her out, you know, I mean, none
of us would. We were justlike, let's just go, you know.
According to Alyssa, the eviction processwas as cordial as it could possibly
be, and Alyssa's friend Annie echoedthat claim. Oh, it's about through

(33:52):
to her that we're just we aretrying to get out. We're not trying
to be in a brawl. We'renot trying to destroyer in her house.
We want to leave in peace ongood terms. Was you going to understand
how those terms were starting to happen? Like good? Yes? Okay,
yeah. Alyssa and Annie admitted thatthey weren't happy about being evicted, but

(34:15):
they claimed that they accepted it andwere willing to just move on. So
they began the process of moving out. But that process wasn't easy because Marilyn
changed the locks on the doors.How are you now getting back into the
house? Would come Anita said,oh okay, she had a key.

(34:35):
Yeah, oh says okay, sothe locks are changed. Marylyn has the
key. And then when you guysare packing your stuff, Maryland conjured here
come inside. So everything was goingokay, yes, okay. The court
filings and eviction notice granted Alyssa threedays to move her things out of the
house. Out of the concern thatthe house might be further damaged, Marilyn

(35:00):
decided that Alissa could only move herstuff out while Marylyn was there. She
wanted to oversee what was going onso they wouldn't cause a bunch of damage
to this house that she needed tosell eventually, So she decided to take
off work so that she could watcheverything and make sure the move out process

(35:21):
was, you know, going well. Yeah. According to Alyssa, Marilyn
eventually decided that she didn't need tokeep an eye on things for some reason,
and so Marylyn you were get alongand she was like, you know,
I noticed you, and I saidI'm not going to get to sun
today, and I know, youknow, She's like, yeah, few

(35:42):
days or whatever, get so that, you know, they said get out.
She's like, but I would workon Monday. I took off this
week, so I'm going to takethe weekend. I want you to come
and get to key tomorrow. I'mgoing to let you, guys just hang
help me to you know, likenot hang up, but you know I
want to relax. You guys,go ahead. And and so that was
aversation you had. On Friday.Alyssa claimed that on the day before Marylyn

(36:07):
was reported missing, Marylyn gave herthe new house keys so that Alyssa could
finish moving out. I'm not surewhy anyone in their right mind would give
someone that they are actually in theprocess of evicting a set of the new
house keys to the new locks they'vejust installed. It kinda makes no sense

(36:30):
whatsoever. But I'm sure you knewthat already. Alissa even had a text
exchange with Marylyn to show detectives andback up this claim. But again,
Marylynd's friend Nancy contradicted what Alyssa toldthe police. When Nancy was shown the
text messages between Alyssa and Marylyn,she knew it didn't make any sense come

(36:54):
get the key on Friday. Thatis so not Maryland. That's somebody to
see from Marylyn's follow needless to say, the story that Alssa told police was
pretty suspicious. Why would Marilyn gothrough all the trouble of filing court paperwork,
changing the locks, taking time offof work, and then just allow

(37:15):
Alissa to have free access to thehouse. It made zero sense. And
because of that, the homicide detectivesbegan to push back on Alyssa's story.
Marilyn didn't allow you guys in thehouse without her present at the beginning,
Yes, and it was because shethought we were going to damage the house.

(37:36):
Okay, So it's just kind ofodd to me that all of a
sudden she would how she likes tolie, and then she would go missing.
Well, I don't know, youknow, all of a sudden you
had to keyse yes because she gaveit to me. Not according to the
friends that we spoke to. Notaccording to Harry. They all stated that
she was not going to allow youguys in that home. He disgusted.

(37:59):
She discussed said that she would naturally. Alyssa maintained that Marilyn had given her
the house keys and permission to gointo the house without being supervised, unfortunately
for her. As detectives began askingfor details about how Alyssa got those house
keys, her story started to bullshitbreakdown. I messaged her on Saturday morning

(38:25):
and said, I'm on my way. It was about night. I said,
well, either about an hour andI went picked up the key.
OK. So I just went inand started packing, and then Annie Andre
came and you know, we're loadingup and stuff, and her brother,
Marilyn's brother Harry, came to thehouse. Song yeah, and asked if
I had on Saturday and asked ifI had seen Marylyn. When when the

(38:46):
last time was? And I saidabout ten this morning. I went picked
up the key. Alissa claimed thatthe last time she saw Marylyn was on
Saturday morning, when Marilyn gave herthe house keys. But police, you
that couldn't be because by Saturday morning, Marilyn was already dead. The woman

(39:07):
who saw Marylyn's body on the backroad in Rio Rancho had spotted it on
Friday night during her commute home.Melissa Bickett was either lying or she'd gotten
her days mixed up. Of course, she claimed the latter when her impossible
story was pointed out to her,I mean, I'm confused. I don't

(39:30):
want to talk anymore. I don'twant to even be here. How you're
sorry because she's gone and I didn'tknow this, you know, and I'm
sorry. It's like and then I'mhere being accused of I don't even know
what we need to get down tome. And I mean, it's simply
because I can't think right now,and it's not unpaired. I probably will
say things that I don't remember,you know. And I know Friday was

(39:54):
the last time I didn't hear,but I've seen her in that robe,
and I think I was just inmy head fully making that I saw her
that morning, Okay, because Idid see her Friday and that was the
last time I saw her. Alissachanged her story. Now, the last
time she saw Marylyn was on Friday, not Saturday. Okay. Fair enough.

(40:16):
Being questioned by the police about thedeath of a family member is a
high stress situation. It's entirely possiblethat Alyssa confused Friday for Saturday. But
there was something else that Alyssa couldnot explain, namely the large amount of
blood the cops found in her house. Would there be any reason that we

(40:42):
will find Marylyn's blood in Annie's room, I don't know. No, there
would be no reason I don't know. Is there going to be any reason
if we pull that carpet up inthat house there's going to be any of
Marilyn's blood on the carpet on me? I don't know. That should just
be a yes or no, that'snot there shouldn't be any Okay, well

(41:02):
there is. Okay, So you'rethe renter of the home, if you
were the last person in the home, so that needs to be explained.
I don't know. Why is thereblood on the walls of that house in
the carpet and Annie's you have noanswer? Does not seem a little suspicious.
I don't know. I have Well, I haven't done anything. I

(41:25):
don't know of anybody doing anything.So we haven't done anything to her.
Who cleaned up the blood in thehallway, You guys didn't do a very
good job on the walls, becausethere's still bloods better on the walls,
very small, But she didn't doa very good job because we were able
to locate it. Eventually, thedetectives made things very clear for Alyssa.

(41:47):
They were trying to solve a murdercase. It was a murder that almost
certainly happened in the home where Alyssawas living, and they knew that Alissa
was lying them. So you've toldDetective Brown that the last time you saw
her was on Saturday mornings time.I lied because I wanted to see her

(42:10):
that morning and I didn't. Okay, No, you're lying now because you
know that we caught you in alot. But I did nothing to her.
I did nothing to her. Maybeyou didn't, but I don't.
Well she's deceased. I'm sorry.Okay, how are your kids going to
feel when you would have trouble orpromises of their grandfather? But I didn't
do it, so I will ifI didn't. Okay, Well, if

(42:35):
these things, you didn't do it, I don't know. It was in
the residence that you're living, andnone of us you have waiting together,
none of us did it. Sonow i'm talking anymore. And you said
I had that right, you dohave that, So I will get an
attorney. After Alyssa was confronted withher lies and the blood in her house,

(42:57):
she asked for a lawyer, whicheffectively shut down this interview, but
the cops weren't done asking questions.Next, they turned to Alyssa's son,
Drake, who having recently been evictedfrom his mom's home, was now living
in a daze in hotel room withhis girlfriend. Detectives met with Drake at

(43:20):
the hotel and asked him about thelast time he saw his grandmother. Drake
explained that he last saw Marilyn theday before she was reported missing, and
when he saw her, she wasparked outside his house. Says Annie and
Alyssa were busy moving things out ofthe home. Annie and my mom and
my grandma were there, and thenI just showed up with Nicky in the

(43:43):
afternoon. I don't know exactly what'son. I'd say one pm, okay,
one pm, me and Nicky goto the hotel because he says,
hey, your mom and Annie meehell at movie so and I was like,
okay, well, then I'll gothere. And then we drove there
and then I go in to helphim, and then my mom was like,
oh, your grandma's kicking us out, and I was like, oh

(44:05):
why because we don't have money forthis place. And then I was like,
okay, we'll go talk to herand then I'll help you guys move
stuff out. So now I wentout to the car and was like,
yo, are you kicking this outat what And she was like yeah,
And I was like, okay,well let me get this stuff out and
then I'm staying at a hotel.I just wanted to let you know that.
She was like okay, by howdid they make her mom feel?
Oh? She was pretty upset.Yeah, she was really upset. What'd

(44:27):
she try? She She's just like, I don't know where I'm going to
stay and stuff like that. ButI like, we told her that she
stay at hotels with us, yeah, until we got a place. According
to Drake, after he helped hismom and Annie move a few things out,
he left. As he was leaving, he saw that Marylyn was still
parked outside the house. And thenFriday, when you left, where was

(44:52):
Grandma still there? Still there?She was still there? And then we
left, where was her car parkedout from? And what did your mom
and Annie do when you left?Talk to him? They were just no,
I was like, I'm leaving,and then they were like, okay,
well, well we gotta leaves intoWe're gonna put stuff in the stores

(45:12):
and then we'll meet you at thehotel. I was like, all right,
I'll see you guys at okay.And then when did you see your
mom and Annie again? Whatever youread down town, did they say anything
too about anything that happened. No, I didn't think that there was anything
that had happened. You didn't knowthat your grandma was missing? No,
I had no idea. I hadseen her those two days and then that

(45:35):
was it as far as Drake knew. When he left the house that day,
his mom, his grandma, andAnnie were still there and everyone was
still alive and breathing. Sadly,detectives had some bad news for Drake.
Your grandma. We found her,but she's dead where well, we believe

(46:01):
that it's suspicious. Okay, wethink so someone killed her. Wait and
I'm really sorry. Okay, howdoes that make you feel? What it
makes you feel? Sad? Verysad? So she's murdered or life is

(46:22):
she? She's just that someone murderher. So now telling you that,
knowing that, is there anything nowthat you think you may have seen or
heard that you think? Okay,that's kind of out of the ordinary.
Something that I saw or someone thatI talked to, or a conversation.

(46:43):
I've never know. I haven't heardor seen anything. After Drake was made
aware of the situation, detectives furtherexplained that Alicia's story just wasn't adding up.
In other words, it was lookinglike Drake's mom had something to do
with the murder. Yeah, andI can tell you that mom's story isn't

(47:07):
matching up with your story or akey story and with yeah your mom,
Yeah, she's fine, she's beingkicking true now and I believe there's a
again at a time that you guysaren't with them. So as I was
asking, when they came back,was there anything that was like awkward that

(47:28):
you noticed. No. According toDrake, when he met back up with
his mom and Annie, he didn'tnotice anything strange or suspicious to him.
Aside from the fact that they hadall just been evicted from their house and
essentially had nowhere to live, everythingseemed finn Essentially, Drake was either unwilling

(47:52):
or unable to give the police anynew information, but this wasn't the last
time that Drake would speak to cops. During the second interview with the detective,
Drake made a startling admission like I'mgonna tell you the honesty. My
grandmother said, I'm too old,Will you please kill me? Do you

(48:17):
remember when she told you that mShe told me, like a couple of
days to several days as I stayedwith her, I was there and then
she would be like depressed. Youknow, so you're saying that at some
point your grandma asked you to killher? Like she was like, yeah,
I get real tired at night andlike I'm I want to die,

(48:42):
you know? So did you dothat for her? Yeah. At this
point, detectives were extremely confident intheir theory that Alyssa and Annie were involved
in murdering Marilyn Gander, But nowMelissa's twenty year old son, Drake,
was taking soul responsibility for it.Perhaps he was just trying to protect his

(49:04):
mom from being charged with murder nonoble. After Drake made this admission,
he was arrested, but the investigationdidn't stop there. The detectives remained determined
to find out the truth, andeventually that truth came out. It turned

(49:27):
out that it wasn't just Alissa thatkilled Marilyn and burned her body. It
wasn't just Annie or Drake either.Marilyn Gandered was murdered by all three of
them. In June of twenty eighteen, twenty year old Drake Bickett confessed to

(50:22):
Albuquerque homicide detectives that he brutally murderedhis own grandmother, sixty five year old
Marilyn Ganderd. According to Drake,his grandmother asked him to kill her,
and he graciously carried out her wishes, just like any decent grandson would.

(50:42):
So I was just like respect becauseI can understand. I don't know if
you guys can understand, but Iexpect you guys to be able to understand.
If an old woman is like oldin having to work for her children,
right, then I'll do where shewants, you know, like,
how did you do it? Justessentially, that's it. That's all the

(51:05):
information without a lawyer or a publicdefender I would like to share. Okay,
So you don't want to talk anymoreafter that? Okay. After Drake
gave his confession, he was cartedoff to jail and did the standard purp
walk. This gave the local mediaan opportunity to put a camera in microphone
in his face. Did you haveanything to do with her death? Oh?

(51:29):
Yes, she asked me to killher. So she asked you to
kill her. How did you doit? I'm not gonna I don't know.
You don't know why. She mentionedthat she was old, tired,
so she wanted you to kill her. Did you burn her body? No?
I have no idea. You don'tknow how she ended up burned.
Is there anything you would want totell her or anyone else? Okay.

(51:50):
Drake told the police and the mediathat he murdered his grandmother, but he
was unwilling to provide any details abouthow he did it how her body ended
up being burned on a back roadin Rio Rancho. Needless to say,
the police knew that there was alot more to this story. In fact,

(52:13):
they didn't buy Drake's claim that Marilynwanted to be killed. They believed
that Drake's mom, Melissa Bickett,and her friend Annie Rayal were responsible for
the murder. When Alyssa was questionedand the detectives pointed out inconsistencies in her
story, she promptly asked for anattorney, and her interview came to an

(52:37):
end. Annie, on the otherhand, did a lot more talking.
I feel like you guys are doingthis because you feel like we did something
to Marly. Yes, we areinvestigating all homicides. Yeah, okay,
and I just love why Marylyn wasmurdered without a doubt or we know that.
Okay, evidence has been collected througha lot of it is pointing towards

(53:01):
you and Alyssa. So you haveone opportunity to give us society your side
of the story. I'm telling youwe didn't do anything. I am telling
you that, Okay. One ofthe main issues with Alyssa and Nannie's denials
was that Marylyn did not give thempermission to enter the house they were being

(53:24):
evicted from unless Marylyn was there yet. Alissa had the keys to the house
when the cops first questioned her.She was there alone without Maryland. You
have not been permitted into that residencewithout Marilyn being there. Is that correct

(53:44):
me? Specifically, I don't anybody. She's the only one that has the
keys. The keys, he right, So when did she obtain those keys?
I don't know if she got thekeys. I don't know that.
So well, she has the keys, you said, Lissa said she got
the keys. She says she talkedto Marilyn. She's that she Marilyn is

(54:08):
giving us more time. That's whatI was told, And I don't care
to ask questions. You don't thinkit's important, you know. All of
that's important is that we need toget their stuff out and clean the house.
That's what's important to me. Thecops knew, or at least strongly
suspected, that Annie was lying,and perhaps the most telling thing about her

(54:32):
interview was that she clearly wasn't takingthe situation seriously. Don't talk to me,
you know, don't talk to you. Yes, I don't know how.
I haven't treated you like they're stupid. I'm getting very bad like because
I'm getting upset that you expect menot to lie to you, but you're
gonna sit over there and lie tome. I don't appreciate that you feel

(54:52):
that way because I'm explaining to youmy situation. I don't know. I
don't know what to the Did yourealize you're looking at be in charge with
the homicide? Does that not computewith you? And I'm trying my heart
to you that I to get itout of that. I get it,
okay, you obviously don't. Okay, you're Seneca riling and laughing, jopping

(55:19):
because I know that we're going tobe out of this fine because we have
done nothing wrong here, any feignedconfidence, but the confidence was slowly broken
down as detectives started introducing physical evidenceinto the conversation. Annie owned and drove
a large pickup truck, which wasperfect for transporting a dead body from Albuquerque

(55:42):
to Rio Rancho. As coincidence wouldhave it, surveillance cameras captured Annie's truck
driving through Rio Rancho around the sametime that Marilyn's body would have been dumped
there. Do you like to offeroa because you have a nice truck?
I mean, you cannot that show. They literally told me not to travel
on the highway, So why Well, but you can go off road out

(56:05):
there and there's trails and there's roadsand that, because only I don't do
that. So why did you guysgo out there? Then we went to
Walmart? What what are you askingme? Like? Hey, why did
we all that? Where? Okay? So here we went wrong and beyond
back to the house. Hey,your truck went beyond Walmart and you guys
went west? You a west ofanswer for something? No? Because Annie's

(56:36):
truck was spotted near where Maryland's bodywas found, the cops decided to search
it, and Annie seemed pretty confidentthat they wouldn't find anything incriminating. But
we are going to process the vehiclefor any kind of evidence inside the vehicle.
Okay, okay? Is there goingto be any reason that Maryland's DNA
is going to be inside that vehicle? Unsurprisingly, the police did find Maryland's

(57:00):
DNA in the bed of Annie's truck, along with a few other things.
Court documents show. Five days later, investigators find blood in the bed of
that truck, along with Maryland's purse, medications, pants, and keys to
her car. Obviously, Alyssa andAnnie weren't criminal masterminds. Jesus, these

(57:22):
people couldn't even figure out how topay their fucking rent. They committed this
murder and then did an absolutely horriblejob of covering it up. Not only
did the cops find Maryland's blood inthe back of Annie's truck, but they
also found a whole bunch of Maryland'sblood in Annie's bedroom. Is there going

(57:43):
to be any reason that a largeblood of Maryland's is going to be in
the house? I'm sorry, okay. And if we do locate a lot,
why would you locate any would kimspecifically maybe in your bedroom? Mhm?
Okay? And when we do,because we have okay, what's going

(58:06):
to be the answer to the same. You don't know we've been together just
because you've been together, because Imean, you can't commit a crime together,
right, there's blood in your realOkay, how did it get there?
I don't know. Okay, I'venever lived in It's a lot.

(58:34):
Yeah, I just I guess Iexpect people believing the easy. We are
moving out of that place. We'retrying to do it in peace. We're
not doing wrong here. You guyssee what you need to do. Okay.
When faced with the facts, andhe just denied everything, which wasn't

(58:54):
exactly a sound strategy. The physicalevidence was just overwhelming and detectives made that
very clear. Unfortunately, all theevidence is pointing towards you. I mean,
if that's how, I don't knowwhat else to say. I can't.

(59:15):
I'm not gonna say that I seensomething that I didn't or I was
a part of it, wasn't There'sI mean, but there's if you didn't
do something wrong, then you knowwhat happened and you saw it, and
you know who did and you sawpart of this. There's absolutely no way.
There's no way Annie that you don'tknow what happened, and that you

(59:37):
didn't see someone cleaning cleaning up blood. Yes, and then your trust see
that your truck was your truck.You were on traffic cameras where we found
the body. Like, I feellike you need to explain it, Well,
I don't. I can't because Idon't. I didn't see anything.

(01:00:00):
If I'm going to feel this waythat you guys are trying to switch it
up on me, I'm going toeven talk at this point because I'm telling
you I'm not lying. And theyasked you to help me rid of the
body. Despite the evidence. Anniedenied any involvement with the murder, but

(01:00:21):
in the end it didn't matter.The cops had more than enough to put
both Annie and Alyssa behind bars,and they started with Alyssa. And do
you know why you're here today?No? Yeah, okay, So the
reason I brought you down or hadyou arrested is I have an active Warren
or restaurant for the murder of Maryland. Okay, so that's going to take

(01:00:46):
a little while and then you'll bebooked into the Metropolitan Detention Center. I'm
sorry, Why am I booked formurder? I didn't do it? So
okay, Well that's what the arrestaurarmis for Okay, do you have any
questions for me? At this point, you speak to somebody, a lawyer.

(01:01:06):
In May of twenty eighteen, ElssaBickett was officially arrested and charged with
the murder of Marilyn Gander. Ashort time later, detectives also formally charged
her friend, Annie Rayelle. So, do you know why you're here today?
Okay? So the reason you're heretoday is I have an active arrest

(01:01:28):
warrant for you for the murder ofMaryland. Okay. So at this point,
you're being charged with an open countof murder, conspiracy to commit murder,
tampering with evidence, and conspiracy totemper with evidence. Okay. Months
later, and perhaps after learning thefull extent of the potential consequences they were

(01:01:52):
facing, both Alissa and Annie decidedto confess, though their respective stories didn't
quite match up. According to Alissa, Annie was the primary aggressor and the
one that set Marilyn's murder into motion. So Marilyn, you know, she's

(01:02:13):
sitting in her car and then shewas coming in because she needed to use
a restaurant drink, and it's like, look at my mom, can't this
is our house. Can't we juststay here when study in our own beds?
And she said no, and sohe was crying and we left out
the back door. I stayed inmy room, and at that point I
did hear Marilyn Yale, and Iwent out there and Annie's on her back.

(01:02:38):
She's on the ground. So Marilyn'son the ground in her back.
Oh, she's only in her back. And okay. I tied up her
hands and legs and I helped herput this bag over her head. Do
you remember what you did it with? What you tied her up with.
Yeah, it was like phone cordsand stuff like that. Then there's other

(01:02:59):
one that Annie gets floating around her, and I hear this snaw that I
don't know if it's the corn.I'm just like, I gotta go.
Alissa explained that during an argument withMarilyn about the rent money and eviction,
and he unexpectedly attacked her. ThenAlyssa and Annie beat, stabbed, and

(01:03:22):
suffocated Marilyn to death. After shewas dead, they loaded her body into
the back of Annie's truck and drovenorth toward Rio Rancho. Alyssa admitted that
after they stopped on a somewhat desolateback road, they unloaded a mattress and

(01:03:43):
placed Marilyn's body on top of it. Then Alyssa poured gasoline on the body
and lit it on fire. Fordetectives, Alyssa's version of events somewhat aligned
with what they believed happened. Thisis just my and I think that the
argument ensued over the rent or whatever, and frustration started, and it just

(01:04:09):
happened. It wasn't planned, itwasn't intentional. Something happened. And whether
it was straight or whether it waswhom I actually kind to think of,
shoot, but whoever, Oh shit, look what we just did. It
got out of control. Now weneed to get rid of the body.

(01:04:30):
The detectives believed that the murder wasnot planned, and that it happened in
a moment of desperation and anger,a moment where you lose control of your
emotions, a moment where you're facedwith the weight of the world on your
shoulders and you just snap and dosomething really, really, really stupid.

(01:04:54):
And now there's even more consequences facingyou. There's even more problems ahead.
Unless you eliminate what you just did, unless you erase it, unless you
erase this person you've assaulted. Itcan happen so very quickly, and lives

(01:05:16):
are changed forever. It's an incrediblestory, but it's too bad that it's
all bullshit according to Annie. Thatis, you see when Annie decided to
confess, she revealed that the murderwas in fact premeditated. And then when
Drake fought there, we all werein a Lista's room getting high. That's

(01:05:44):
pretty much when oh So like shehad brought it up before about Jane Man,
I still didn't think we were goingto do it, like, and
Marilyn was coming in. Drake waslike, can you just let us stay?
Look at my mom happy? Shewas like no. Alissa looked at

(01:06:09):
me and Drake and nodded, AndI looked at Drake and he started like
walking behind Marilyn, and I gotMarilyn and from behind and took her down.
Annie explained that after she took Marylynto the ground, Alyssa and her
son Drake helped to tie Marilyn up. Then they wrapped a plastic bag over

(01:06:32):
Marilyn's head, beat her with abaseball bat, and stabbed her to death.
One major difference in Alissa's and Annie'sstories involved Drake. According to Alyssa,
Drake let the house before the murderhappened. But in Annie's version,
Annie, who you know, probablydoesn't give a shit about Drake, Drake

(01:06:57):
was the one that finished Marilyn offby slitting her throat. Like mother like
son. I guess the son doesn'tfall far from the murderous mother tree or
something like that. I don't know, Maybe I should be a shirt anyway.
Ultimately, the detectives determined that Annie'sconfession was a more accurate telling of

(01:07:17):
the events, and that Alyssa wasprobably trying to protect her son from a
murder conviction. She was unsuccessful inthat pursuit. After detectives finalized their investigation
and handed things off to prosecutors,Drake, Alissa, and Annie all faced

(01:07:38):
murder charges. All three of themdecided not to take their respective cases to
trial, and they all pled guilty. Alyssa was sentenced to thirty years in
prison, Drake got twenty six,and Annie was given a reduced sentence of
twelve for her willingness to cooperate.You could say that justice has been served,

(01:08:03):
but for Maryland's friends and family,and specifically for her brother, that
justice comes as a small consolation.Harry Gandert continues to live with the tragic
loss of his sister and the realizationthat Marylynd's final moments alive must have been

(01:08:24):
absolutely horrifying and incredibly painful. Shewas just a very kind person, and
she didn't deserve anything like this.It's a useless thing that my sister was
killed. I mean, that wasfor no reason. Actually, Marilyn Gandert

(01:08:44):
was so brutally murdered by these threepeople that she knew that she was kind
to in many ways that they probablydidn't deserve. The mastermind behind that murder,
if you can even call her that, was Marilyn's daughter in law,

(01:09:05):
Alyssa Bikett. For most of herlife, Alyssa was given a place to
live for free. Her husband andmother in law provided that for her.
But when the time came for Alyssato provide for herself, she lashed out
and decided to do something truly horrific. Alissa felt entitled, She felt that

(01:09:30):
Marilyn owed her a home. WhenMarilyn refused to give Alyssa what she wanted,
Alyssa planned and carried out her murder, and perhaps worst of all,
she made her own son, killhis grandmother, and now he's spending decades

(01:09:51):
of his life behind bars. Ironically, Alyssa was able to avoid paying rent,
and you and I are the beneficiaryof that privilege. Beneficiary or benefactor,
what's the what's the right word forthat? Anyway, Alissa has a

(01:10:13):
you know, respectable, decent placeto live now, still for the rest
of her life, still doesn't haveto pay rent. For the next thirty
years, she'll have a free roofover her head. She'll be given three
square meals a day, and shewon't have to pay for any of it.
Though I doubt her accommodations are whatshe was hoping for. Who knows,

(01:10:40):
I mean, I hear prisons thesedays have free basic cable and even
some restricted Internet access. Doesn't soundquite that bad compared to the nine to
five cubicle life. If you askme, if Alyssa's fate tells us anything
gives us any sort of lesson whatsoever, it proves that a sense of entitlement

(01:11:06):
can be a very dangerous thing.As much as we might not want to
admit it, there is at leasta little bit of entitlement in all of
us, So try and be sureto keep yours in check. And remember
that nobody owes you anything, notyour mother in law, not some true

(01:11:30):
crime podcast producer, nobody owes youa fucking thing. So if you want
something, you're going to have todo the work. You're gonna have to
go out there and just like inthe old days, you're gonna have to
earn it. Oh one more thingbefore we go. Uh. If you

(01:12:05):
want to get any of the schnanzzynewmerch over at store dot sortnscale dot com,
make sure you go to sortinscale dotcom first, log in with your
Plus membership and click the store linkon the top of the page so that
you get your discount. It willbe automatically applied at checkout as long as
you click that link. All right, that's gonna do it. Until next

(01:12:26):
time. Stay safe. Hey there, this is Jenny from Tacoma. This

(01:12:50):
is a message for Gerty Gertie.You are a goddess. I am appalled
to find that people are giving youtrouble. For all of you out there
who are know who you are.This is a community of sassholes, not
assholes, so please give reready ofbreak and praiser. All right, thanks
for everything. Have a good dayto