Episode 264

In 2002, high school senior Stacy DeGrandchamp died after getting into a physical fight with her schoolmate, Holly Boisvert. For many, the assumption was that Holly had murdered Stacy, but the police could never figure out how she did it, if she did it at all. The case eventually went cold, and nobody would get any real answers about Stacy’s death for almost twenty years.

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Sword and Scale contains adult themes andviolence, and is not intended for all
audiences. Listener discretion is advised.What do you remember it was? Man?
It was just it was all Itwas bad blood. You know what
I'm saying. Stuff was coming outof her mouth. Did you think that

(00:22):
she was dying? I didn't thinkthat she was gonna die. Hello and
welcome the season eleven, episode twohundred and sixty four of Sword and Scale,

(00:46):
a show that reveals that the worstmonsters are real. Speaking of real,

(01:21):
boy, nothing makes a really horrifictrue crime story real for you as
much as standing in front of thebuilding where a young woman was tortured to
death by people who she thought wereher friends, and it all comes to

(01:42):
you all, well, it's like, oh, this really really happened.
You know, Otherwise you're just sittingin a dark room talking in a microphone.
But producing Sword and Scale television hasreally solidified in my mind just how
awful people can be. I hopeyou get a chance to see it,
because I think we're doing something incredible. I think we're elevating the true crime

(02:04):
platform to a new place. Thestories we're telling, the way we're telling
them. This has never been donebefore, so I really do hope that
you do get a chance to seeit. I know it's expensive, but
we do have plans to add additionalofferings to the video tier. You know,
eventually we have to start somewhere,and I think we started at the
very top, at the very pinnacleof true crime, which is Sword and

(02:29):
Scale Television. I think you're gonnalove it. If you're interested in checking
it out and also supporting independent media, head on over to Sword and Scale
dot com or download the Sword andScale app on your iOS or Android phone.

(03:12):
During the course of a murderer investigation, and especially if a particular murder
is ultimately solved, there is aword that gets thrown around a lot.
That word is closure. Oftentimes,family members of a murder victim seek answers
in an effort to obtain that everelusive closure. Aside from wanting to know

(03:35):
who is responsible for their loved one'sdeath, they also want to know why
that person committed the murder in thefirst place. Then they usually want to
see that person punished. Many familieswait years to get all of these things
if they're lucky enough to get themall, but after they get them does
closure actually ever truly come in amurder case? Is closure really even possible?

(04:05):
Just over twenty years ago, inmid August of two thousand and two,
a middle aged mom in Fort Wayne, Indiana, received a voicemail from
her only daughter's ex boyfriend. Itwas the kind of voicemail that no mother
wants to hear. She was toldthat her daughter had been badly injured and

(04:25):
was being rushed to the hospital.D write in love, I'm over here
at Gumfria Thompson, thank you overhere, she had heard she heard the
name of her here. I don'tknow away, We'll get a whole call.

(04:45):
I mean, that's the only thingI sing. Earlier that night,
Fort Wayne police were called to afairly chaotic scene and a residence where a
small house party had been taking place. The attendees were mostly young adults in
their late teens and early twenties.The lead investigator that was eventually assigned to

(05:06):
this case was Fort Wayne homicide DetectiveBrian Martin. Fort Wayne police officers arrived
to what was put out as aparty. When they arrived, they discovered
a female who was suffering from sometype of cut or stabloun to the chest
and abdomen area. They observed thatthere were approximately eight to ten individuals standing

(05:31):
around, with one or two ofthe individuals providing aid to the victim.
The young female victim was rushed toa hospital as the responding officers turned the
house party into a crime scene andbegan questioning the witnesses. The police learned
that shortly after the victim arrived atthe house party, a physical and fairly

(05:54):
brutal fight broke out in the backyardbetween her and another teenager. She pulled
up. Everybody was outside in theback and that's that's when all hell broke
loose came Where were you at here? And all this? She I was
upstairs in the bedroom with a bunchof people smoking weed. So you're upstairs
smoking weed? What do you remembershe got into an altercation with another female

(06:18):
when it comes to the fight.Do you remember the fight? I don't
know, man, They were justscuffling around and all they were on the
ground when you left. Did youknow that? Did somebody say the cops
were coming right? Did you?Oh? We heard them? Oh you
could hear them. We heard them. The police also learned that the victim
in this case was soon to beHigh school senior. Stacy the Grand Champ.

(06:42):
So Stacy the Grand Champ was avery popular young lady, approximately sixteen
seventeen years old. Everybody that wespoke to about Stacey described her as a
popular, young, energetic young ladywho had goals of going to college and
they were very, very excited aboutwhere life was going to take Stacy.

(07:02):
Her personality was that energetic, charismaticand everybody, including Stacy herself, had
high hopes and big plans for life. Stacy was an only child, but
she found sisterhood and her cousin,Jamie McMillan, who lived only a few
houses away from Stacy. I amJamie McMillan and I am the cousin of

(07:24):
St. C. Deering Champ.Our moms are twins and we definitely grew
up extremely close. It was onlytwo years difference between the two of us.
Stacy was an extremely fun person tobe around. She was always full
of energy. She enjoyed playing volleyball. She loved her family very much.
She was the oldest of all thegirls, and there's about twenty eight cousins

(07:46):
between all of us. Stacy wasgetting ready to start her senior year at
Wayne High School, which back intwo thousand and two was pretty standard public
high school. Among the halls inthe class aassrooms were the typical cliques of
jocks, stoner's band, geeks,and the like. In the social hierarchy,

(08:07):
Stacy was undeniably at the top.With her blonde hair, bright eyes,
and prowess and volleyball. She wasone of the most popular students at
Wayne High if not the most popular. I feel like a lot of people
were jealous of Stacy just based offhow beautiful she was and her outgoing personality.

(08:30):
I think a lot of people enviedher. The police also learned that
the teenager who had gotten into afight with Stacy was Holly Boisvert, another
student at Wayne High. So Hollyboys as a young lady. She also
attended Wayne High School. Sixteen seventeenyear old girl. She kind of kepture
herself, maybe ran with a littlebit tougher crowd. She could be standoffish

(08:54):
at times. Holly, I don'tbelieve initially was the kind of girl that
you would think of as a troublemaker, but she definitely had a little
bit of a rough side to her. In many ways, Stacy and Holly
were very opposite people. They wereboth attractive teenage girls, but Stacy was
known to be bright, bubbly,and outgoing, while Holly was pretty introverted

(09:16):
and carried herself with an edge justbecause of I remember her as a teenager
through my group of friends, shewas the tough one, you know,
she was the I'll beat anybody upor you know, like out of our
group of friends, she was alittle rough, roun edge. Okay.

(09:37):
Needless to say, Stacey and Hollyweren't close, but they did know each
other through mutual friends. Several monthsbefore the two girls had their fight at
a house party, Stacy began datinga young man named Brandon Muff. To
know Stacy and Brandon was to alsoknow that they really didn't make much sense

(09:58):
together. Stacy was a preppy teenagerwho always did her school work, and
twenty year old Brandon had a reputationfor being a local bad boy. Actually,
come to think of it, mosthigh schools have this sort of arrangement.
Pretty popular girl dating the older baddude with a leather jacket used to

(10:20):
be a popular trope. Stacy starteddating Brandon Muff back when she was about
sixteen years old. The relationship didn'tseem to last very long. We automatically
knew that that was not a goodfit for her. That was terrible decision,
and we were pretty voiicitous about thatas her family. So Brandon Muff
is a gentleman who was a littlebit older, early twenties, ran with

(10:43):
a little bit rougher crowd. Well, Brandon was the kind of guy that
you liked the attention, You likeddating these younger ladies a little bit,
and liked to party and have fun. Stacy dated Brandon for a few months
and it just so happened that Brandonwas Holly's ex boyfriend. Though the term
ex boyfriend should be used loosely herebecause Brandon was playing both girls. So

(11:05):
Holly dated Brandon and I'm not quitecertain on how long the relationship lasted,
but ultimately Brandon broke up with Holly, and then later on Stacy started dating
Brandon. It appeared Brandon was kindof playing both sides of the field,
if you will, or dating bothgirls at the same time, or there
may have been some overlap or somebad communication as to what his intentions were

(11:31):
with the young ladies. After Stacybegan dating Brandon, Holly went out of
her way to make life hard forStacy. In an attempt to drive a
wedge between Stacy and their group offriends, Holly began spreading rumors about Stacy.
Holly was extremely upset once she foundout that Brandon and Stacy started dating.

(11:52):
She went around spreading different rumors andjust bad through Stacy's name completely under
the bus where friends that were mutualfriends decided that they either couldn't retain their
friendship with her or that they kindof sided with Holly based off of the
rumors that Holly was spreading. Bymid August of two thousand and two,

(12:15):
Stacy had broken off things with Brandonand was preparing to start her senior year
at Wayne High. But about aweek before school was scheduled to start,
Stacy was invited to a house partywhere Brandon lived. Stacy was reluctant about
going, but was ultimately convinced toattend by her friend Abby. Stacey ended

(12:37):
up going to the Guthrie home thatnight. She was there with a mutual
friend of Brandon's named Abby, andAbby ended up taking Stacy there that night.
Stacy was reluctant, she didn't reallywant to go but for whatever reason,
Abby head her talked into let's goto this party, and so Abby
drove her there that night. Naturally, after Stacy was rushed to the hospital,

(13:01):
Abby was one of the first peoplethat the police questioned. According to
Abby, as well as many otherwitnesses, the fight between Stacy and Holly
broke out pretty much as soon asStacy arrived at the party. So we
end up going and I park inthe driveway when the girl comes out and
they get in this altercation. BothHolly and Stacy had a verbal exchange verbal

(13:26):
argument. They got pretty heated bythe back door of the residence. The
girls had this rather firing exchange andthen it led to physical push and shoving,
which led to kicking and hitting andthe girls being on the ground fighting,
wrestling, kicking one another. Eventually, the fight between Stacy and Holly

(13:46):
was broken up and Abby suggested toStacy that they should just leave. When
she stood up and I was talkingto her, there was no blood.
And then she went around the sideof my car. And then I look
back and she wasn't standing there,and you were next to the car with
her. Yeah, I was bythe driver's side. She went over to
the passenger side. According to Abby, she and Stacy walked towards Abby's car,

(14:11):
and for a brief moment, Abbylooked away from Stacy, but when
she looked back, Stacy was nolonger standing. She was suddenly lying in
the driveway and clutching her chest.Shortly after, many of the other partygoers
began to gather around Stacy. Whatwhat do you remember about Stacy laying there?

(14:35):
It was, man, it wasjust it was it was bad.
You know what I'm saying. Blood, you know what I'm saying. Stuff
was coming out of her mouth.You know, I didn't know. It
scared the fuck out of me.You know what I'm saying. I ain't
never seen anything like it. Didyou think that she was dying? I
didn't think that she was gonna die? Right. Eventually nine one one was

(14:58):
called, an ambulance showed up,and Stacy was rushed to a hospital.
Tragically, the cops had some verybad news for Abby. And at this
point in my call nine one one, call nine one one, and then
everything went so freaking fast. Atthat point, the paramedics came, the
police got there, and I waslike, she okay, is she okay?

(15:18):
I'm going to freak it out andhe's the police officer looked at me
down in the face that she's notgonna make it, and right then it
was complete devastation. Abby held onto hope that Stacy was going to survive,
but ultimately her hope was in vain. Just a few hours after she
arrived at the hospital, seventeen yearold Stacy de Grand Champ was dead.

(15:43):
Following her death, Fort Wayne homicidedetectives went to work trying to figure out
exactly how this happened and who wasresponsible, but the case turned out to
be much more complicated than they anticipated. In fact, this case remained unsolved

(16:06):
for quite a while, and nobodywould get any real answers about Stacy's death
for nearly twenty years. On thenight of August fifteenth, two thousand and

(16:37):
two, two high school students inFort Wayne, Indiana, Stacy to Grand
Champion Holly Boisburt, began fighting eachother at a small house party. The
fight started as a shouting match,but quickly escalated to shoving, hair pulling,
punching, kicking, and rolling aroundon the ground typical girl fight.

(17:00):
After the fight ended, Stacy collapsedin the driveway as she was attempting to
leave when an ambulance and police arrived. It became a parent that Stacy had
life threatening injuries, and she wasrushed to a nearby hospital. A few
hours later, Stacy died, andthe following morning, her cousin Jamie was

(17:22):
made aware of Stacy's passing. Ilearned from my mom waking me up with
my aunt in our family room,very sobbing, crying, and I just
said, Mom, what is it, well, what's wrong? What's wrong?
And she said, Stacy died,She's gone. I just remember feeling
this numb feeling just over my entirebody and just feeling extremely weak, the

(17:45):
shock feeling. There wasn't so muchemotion right away. It was the shock
feeling. And all I could saywas, no, this isn't this isn't
happening now, It's not true.And then I proceeded to go into the
living room where seen Rita, hermom. I felt the way that she
looked, that'd be how I lookedat that point in time. Just a

(18:07):
feeling of loss. You couldn't evenspeak. All you could do was stop
crying together as a family and askyourself, you know. Then the million
and one questions as to why.When Jamie and the rest of Stacy's family
learned that Stacy had died, theyweren't given much information about how or why

(18:30):
this all happened. Again, atthis point in time, we still had
no idea really what had happened.We met with the detectives told us a
little bit about what had happened.They didn't have any idea who did it.
They did not have a murder weapon. They just had stated that that
Holly and Stacy were in an altercationin the backyard and that they're going to

(18:51):
get who who did this? Andyou know, of course our fingers immediately
said Holly did it. She hadthe altercation, But at that point in
time, we still weren't certain onwhat involvement Bringdan had. Twenty year old
Brandon Muff dated both Holly and Stacy, and he was the host of the
house party where Stacy was injured.Naturally, the police interviewed Brandon, and

(19:14):
during that interview, Brandon freely admittedthat he had invited both girls to his
party while being well aware of thefact that they didn't like each other.
Stacy and Abby came over and theytold me that they would be coming over
later because I told him they we'regoing to have a couple of people over.
Wasn't a party or anything like that. So later in the day,

(19:36):
about I say about three or four, I talked to Holly. She said
that she was going to come over. Brandon explained that when Holly arrived at
his house, she had been droppedoff by a few friends. A short
while later, Stacy's friend Abby pulledinto the driveway with Stacy sitting in the
car's passenger seat. She got there, it was just getting dark. She

(19:57):
got dropped off by a whitney andsome friends went inside. Justin told me
that Stacy and Abby were there,so I went outside to meet him.
Abby told police that almost immediately aftershe and Stacy showed up to the party,
Holly and Stacy got into an argument, with each girl shouting at the

(20:19):
other. Then the physical fighting began, and Stacey had You know, she
could be a little hot head sometimes, and you know, if somebody had
problems with her, she wasn't scaredto confront it, and I think she
wanted just to have a conversation andmaybe it would have gotten heated. You
know, I believe that the conversationwould have gotten heated. But then it
just and this was a matter ofa few minutes. This all happened.

(20:42):
It was just insane, and I'mlike, Brandon, help me stop this.
Help me. After the two girlsstarted hitting each other, Abby called
upon Brandon to break it up,but Brandon wasn't too keen on stopping two
attractive young girls from fighting in largepart about him. And I stepped in

(21:03):
and I said, well, ifthey're gonna fight, lit the fight.
So they started fighting. It endedup both of them on the ground,
and Stacy was kicking Holly in theface. So I decided that it was
time to break up the fight.So I grabbed Stacy's ankle and I yanked
her away from Holly or she fellinto some recycling bins, and she stood

(21:25):
up like everything was fine when youor Stacy from Holly. Why did you
do that? Because Stacy was shewas getting the best of follow she was
kicking Holly in By all accounts,Stacy won the fight, and after it
ended, she seemed fine. Brandonpulled her away from Holly and Stacy stumbled

(21:45):
into some recycling bins. Then Abbysuggested that they leave the party, and
they stand up Stacey's standing there,and I was like, let's just fucking
go. So she walks around theside of my car. I look the
other way. I look back onthe ground. When I go over there,
I see blood and start coming throughher shirt. But after I saw
what was going on, I screamedfor Brandon, and then I went over

(22:07):
there and got on the ground andI noticed that, you know, she
she was had blood on her shirtand she was bleeding. So I lifted
up her sherr hatway and there wasa hole in her stomach. Stacey was
choking, and she had started chokingat that point, and I turned her
on her side because I thought,maybe, you know, she was an
Obama or something, and she didand I asked her what. I asked

(22:30):
her what happened, and she toldme the pain started when I broke up
the fight. Brandon's account of whathappened was consistent with the statements that all
of the witnesses at the party hadgiven to police, so Brandon probably wasn't
lying, but none of his versionsof events explained how Stacy got injured or

(22:52):
how this fight led to her death. When Stacy was taken to the hospital,
they knew right away that she hada cut to her middle of her
chest, just under her breast,as well as her abdomen, and by
the time that she had gotten pickedup by the ambulance and transported a very
short distance to a trauma center,there was nothing that could be done to
save her life. After Stacy diedin the hospital, her family was put

(23:17):
into a truly awful position. Stacywas a vibrant seventeen year old girl with
a bright future ahead of her,and her family had to bury her without
any answers as to how this happenedor who was responsible. DC went out
shopping for her senior year outfit theday that she died, and those were

(23:38):
supposed to be for her senior picturesthat she was going to be taking that
following week as she entered into hersenior year, and instead of being able
to wear those for her senior pictures, she was wearing those in that outfit
in her casket in very poor taste, and to the shock of Stacy's family,
Brandon Muff made an appearance at theviewing for Stacy. Brandon showed up

(24:03):
and my one aunt said, Brandon, you look at her, and you
look what you did to her.You did this, you put her there,
And he turned around and yelled backand said, I love that girl.
I would never do anything to hurther, and continued to yell profanity
as he exited out of the funeralhome. During the police investigation, detectives

(24:26):
were hoping that they could find amurder weapon, if there even was one.
Stacy's injuries suggested that she could havebeen stabbed, so a search effort
was made to find the knife.Law enforcement during the search of the residents
as a crime scene, went throughthe entire house. They went through the
exterior of the home. They documentedthe area around the home. Knives from

(24:48):
the kitchen and from the kitchen sinkwere removed from the residence and tested.
At this time and shortly thereafter,it was learned that none of the knives
that were taken from the resident orin fact a weapon used to kill Stacy.
When Brandon was questioned, he toldpolice that during the fight he never
saw Holly or anyone with a knifeor any kind of weapon at all.

(25:12):
And during the time that Stacey andHolly was fighting, was there anyone else
around or involved in the fight?Yep, and you were the only person
that it kind of got involved inthe fight when you called Stacy right right?
Did you stab Stacey did? Tomy understanding, and from what I

(25:33):
saw that, I never really sawanybody sab anybody and you and I waited
a couple of days to see,if you know, if they would find
a weapon at the same but theynever found a weapon. As for everyone
else who witnessed the fight, theytold police the very same thing. Nobody
saw a knife. Nobody saw aweapon the day the fight happened. Did
you see or talk to Holly atall? Do you recall, yes,

(25:55):
I dropped her off to the location. When you dropped her off, do
you know if she hadn't she'd beencarrying a knife with her, right,
I don't remember seeing a knife.I'm not going to say she didn't have
a knife, though, you don'tremember seeing seeing a weapon? No,
I don't know anybody. I haven'tseen no weapons. I has seen this.
Two girls getting into a fight.Did you see the other girl's hands,

(26:17):
I mean I've seen him. Itlooked like she didn't have anything in
her hands. You know what I'msaying. Yeah, it was just looked
like a fight, you know whatI'm saying. Yeah, Let me ask
you this, anytime did you seeHollywood a knife? Though, anytime after
the fight or even since she passed, did you ever hear that she had
a knife. I never heard anythingabout a weapon. I never saw a

(26:40):
weapon. And that's why this isso hard, given that no weapon was
found in that nobody ever saw one. The detectives began to wonder if Stacy
had been cut or stabbed in someway. Brandon and other witnesses told police
that the fight ended when Brandon draggedStacy away from Holly. Stacy then stood

(27:00):
up and stumbled or fell into anearby collection of recycling bins. Maybe Stacey
was somehow and unknowingly injured. Thenthese puncture wounds are these stab wounds initially
were described as possibly being some kindof cup from glass or metal, And
it was described by people at thescene that during the altercation between Holly and

(27:25):
Stacy that a recycle bin with glassand bottles was knocked over, and I
believe everybody initially thought that possibly Stacywas cut by glass. There was,
of course, one other very importantperson that the police talked to, and
that was the girl who fought withStacy, Holly Boisbird Unfortunately, for the

(27:48):
sake of this episode, the copsdecided to record the audio of this interview
with a potato And then and shegot on hair and pulled me across the
arm and tied me in my face, and I put my army on the
way from both arms, and shejust started hitting me in my head the

(28:12):
arms, and then Brandon pulled her, letting dragged off the ar my angles
and then she let and so thatwas like, let's go one her glee
and she walked over to the car. When Holly gave her statement to police,
she claimed that she had no ideahow Stacy got stabbed. She admitted

(28:33):
that she had gotten into a fightwith Stacy and that Stacy won the fight,
then Brandon broke it up and afew moments later Stacy collapsed in the
driveway. It was the same storythat everyone else had told police. Holly
did give the information about a recyclebend the head glass and bottles in it

(28:56):
being knocked over, and that sheinitially thought that possibly that was how Stacy
had received her injuries. Holly furtherindicated that she was kind of getting the
uh ar was on the losing endof this fight. She claimed that she
had no idea how the injuries toStacy occurred. The physical evidence and witness
statements ultimately led police nowhere, sothey began considering motives. Who would want

(29:22):
Stacy dead and why. As theylooked into this, they learned something interesting.
On the night that the fight happened, Holly Boysfurt had been dropped off
at the house party by two teenagefriends, Amanda Richards and Whitney mcgeehee,
both of whom went to high schoolwith Stacy. The police eventually discovered that

(29:45):
just before Stacey died, Whitney McGeheehad called Stacy and left her an odd
voicemail. When he called Stacy theday that she died, and left a
voice message on the answer machine thatStacy would never get. She never got
that voice message, but Whitney lefta very threatening message that you're going to

(30:07):
get it tonight. I maybe puthome for I'm alive when you do,
being older me because otherwise people arelooking for you. Based on the rumors
that Holly had been spreading about Stacy, Whitney falsely believed that Stacy was bad
mouthing Whitney behind her back and tellinglies about her. It was all petty

(30:30):
high school drama, but that didn'tstop Whitney from calling Stacy and seemingly threatening
her. Sadly, Stacy never gotthis message because she died before she could
hear it. The person who discoveredthe voicemail was Stacy's mom, who promptly
gave it to police. You alsocalled Rita, Stacy's mother, and did

(30:56):
you leave a message? And Idon't know exactly what I said at that,
but from what I remember, theywere both dating the same guy and
basically what had happened is he wasgoing back and forth. So Holly,
I don't remember her wording, Idon't remember what she said since a long
ago, was basically like not okaywith Stacy. So I had called and

(31:18):
left a message and said something alongthe lines of you need to call me
watch out for her, something likethat. When questioned, Whitney couched her
voicemail as a friendly warning. Sheclaimed that she wasn't making a threat and
was only trying to actively warn Stacythat Holly was going out toget her.

(31:41):
Nonetheless, detectives in this case startedto wonder if they were being lied to
by everyone. Maybe, just maybethere was a larger conspiracy going on here.
Maybe the rumors that Holly had spreadabout Stacy prompted all of these teenagers
you plot a murder. Maybe Stacywas lured to the house party. Maybe

(32:06):
Brandon, Holly, Whitney, andAbbey all knew exactly what was going to
happen when she got there. Soinitially detectives began wondering if this was some
kind of a setup, so tospeak, meaning that Brandon Muff wanted both
girls to be at this party,and that he had an agenda or some

(32:27):
kind of plan. And in fact, when other friends tried to break the
girls up from the fight that washappening, Brandon had made the comment,
no, let them go. Ultimately, if there was some conspiracy among friends
to murder Stacy, the police couldnever prove it, and the case dragged

(32:49):
on. As it did, lifecontinued for everyone involved, but the lives
they were living weren't easy. Inparticular, Holly Boys pretty much became a
social outcast and struggled to finish hereducation at Wayne High School. So after
Stacy's death, it's my understanding,and from everything that I've been able to

(33:10):
gather, is that Holly Boys wereit was kind of not real popular.
There were a lot of people talking. People believed that she was responsible for
the death. They didn't know hownecessarily, but they believed that she was
responsible. And those assumptions were basedon the fact that she was the only
one involved in a physical altercation withStacy de grand Champ and ultimately moments later

(33:35):
she was dead. According to Whitneymcgeey, she and all of Holly's former
friends pretty much cut Holly out oftheir lives. We all washed our hands
on her once to heaven. Didyou talk to her at any point after
this fight took place. I knowthat I had caught her one time and
asked her did she do it?And she basically to me? And I

(34:00):
never talked to her again, andI was just done with it. I
couldn't. Eventually, Holly's family committedHolly to a mental hospital out of fear
that she might kill herself after thatfight. Did she have to go get
a little bit of help because itkind of got in her head a little
bit? Well, my dad saidhe didn't want it to He didn't want

(34:20):
her to hit mess up from it, so he kind of made her going
there where she would part She didbehavioral as Holly was dealing with all of
this. Stacy's family was still waitingfor answers and still waiting for justice to
be handed out. Unfortunately, thoseanswers and justice itself never showed up.

(34:42):
After we met with the detective,he's promised us that he won't stop until
he gets the person that did this. We kind of held on to that
promise in the hopes that justice wouldbe served, you know any day now
where we're waiting for that phone call, any date to come through to say
hey, we've arrested Holly and howshe's going to be charged with murder,
and that phone call just never happened. For Stacy's family, The days,

(35:07):
weeks, and months dragged on andthe de grand Champ case went cold.
Many years passed without any arrests beingmade. Initial detectives took this case,
I believe as far as they thoughtthat they could go. There was a
lot of misconception around the wounds.It was a little baffling as to how

(35:30):
she got stabbed or how she gotcut. Stacy de grand Champ was murdered
in August of two thousand and two, and it wasn't until twenty nineteen that
the case was officially looked into againthat year, Stacy's cousin Jamie McMillan reached
out to cold case detective Brian Martinand asked him to take a look at

(35:52):
it, which he did. Fromthere, Detective Martin began the long process
of tracking down the witnesses and everyoneinvolved in the case. Remarkably, Detective
Martin was eventually able to solve thecrime and deliver just a little bit of

(36:12):
justice to Stacy's family. In Augustof two thousand and two, seventeen year

(36:59):
olds Stacy de grand Champ died aftergetting into a fight with her schoolmate Holly
Boisverd. Stacy and Holly both datedan older guy named Brandon Muff and this
generated a whole lot of pettiness betweenthe two girls and their friends. Insults
were lobbied, rumors were spread,and lies were told. It was teenage

(37:21):
girl drama that most people wouldn't takeseriously, but it all became very serious
when a fight broke out between Stacyand Holly, and Stacy later died as
a result. Unfortunately, when initialhomicide detectives investigated this case, they couldn't
make sense of how Stacy sustained twolife threatening injuries to her chest and abdomen.

(37:45):
Brandon Muff and other witnesses to thefight claimed they never saw Holly or
anyone with a knife, and amurder weapon was never found. For many
years, this case languished and eventuallywent cold, all the way while Stacy's
family waited for answers and for justice. Then, in twenty nineteen, Stacy's

(38:07):
cousin, Jamie McMillan, reached outto cold case homicide detective Brian Martin and
asked him to look into the case, which he did. One of the
first things that Detective Martin did wasconsider some of the original theories that might
have explained how Stacy was injured.This included the possibility that Stacy was cut

(38:29):
by glass after the fight with Holly. According to Brandon Muff, when he
broke up the fight, Stacy stumbledand fell into some nearby recycling bins,
and the thinking was that she mayhave gotten jabbed by broken glass. When
this happened, I can tell youthat when I began looking at this case,
one of the first things I didwas look for blood around the recycle

(38:52):
bin and look for broken glass orlook for sharp objects, and quite Honestly,
I found no blood around that recycleben and the photographs. I did
not find any broken glass. Ididn't see evidence that broken glass was swept
up or cleaned up. I alsolooked at the wounds and the injuries and

(39:13):
the reports from trauma centered doctors aswell as Corners staff, and quickly realized
this was not the type of injuryfrom my training experience and from the reports
I was reading that would have beensustained by broken glass and atens and purposes,
I believe that she was stabbed.It was a knife and she was
stabbed. Another important thing that DetectiveMartin did was reinterview many of the people

(39:37):
who had some sort of link tothis case, and that included Brandon Muff
So I was able to speak withBrandon muff an additional time. He was
very upset, he was emotional.He said he felt horrible. He said
that this had affected him and thathe has a lot of regret over the
fact that he felt that he hadput the girls in the situation or they

(40:00):
fought and it was because of him, and that he was young and doing
dumb stuff, and he really regrettedsome of his choices back then, after
almost twenty years and now thirty eightyear old Brandon Muff acknowledged that inviting both
Stacy and Holly to his house partywas a very poor decision and he deeply

(40:22):
regretted his part in putting the girlsin that position. Even so, when
Detective Martin questioned him, his storyabout what happened didn't change, and he
still couldn't explain how Stacy was stabbed. The other theory about the case that
was tossed around was the possibility thatStacy's death was some kind of conspiracy among

(40:45):
Brandon, Holly, and others.Perhaps Stacy was lured to Brandon's house party
in order to be murdered. Perhapsit was all set up. But ultimately
the initial detectives and Detective Martin couldnever find any evidence to back this up.
Initial detectives, as well as myself, did not really find that there

(41:07):
was anything to substantiate that Brandon Muffhad a hidden agenda to get the girls
together so that something like this couldhappen. For Detective Martin, there was
really only one explanation to account forhow Stacy got stabbed. It had to
have happened during the fight with Holly, and Holly must have successfully concealed the

(41:30):
fact that she had a knife.Holly must have felt that she was getting
the roll end of the deal,or she was pissed off, and she
stabbed Stacy twice, once in theabdomen and once in the upper chest,
and it caused Stacy to begin tobleed to death right there at the scene.
Officially, Holly Boysburt became Detective Martin'smain suspect, and this meant tracking

(41:57):
her down and finding out where shelanded so many years later, and I
was able to find that Holly Boisbergwas actually living in Fond de Lac,
Wisconsin. It appeared that she wasnot working. I found that she was
living in an apartment complex, andthen it appeared she had a younger son.
Detective Martin interviewed several people who wereconnected to the case, but he

(42:21):
saved Holly for last, and hedidn't tell her he was coming. Instead,
he and another detective just showed upat her doorstep, and ultimately Holly
came to the door. She waswearing pajamas and a T shirt. She
came to the door. She lookeda little shot, kind of had a
blank stare on her face. HeyHolly, how are you. I'm Ausin

(42:42):
Martin the soft snow. We werehoping to bend your ear for a minute.
Awesome. Holly did invite us inand let us sit down and begin
speaking with her about the case.At the start of this interview, Holly
was questioned about the fight she hadwith Stacy, and Holly explained the details
of the just kicks and hair pullingthat took place. Her head was closer

(43:04):
to your feet and no, howwas she kicking in the head. Then
she was like on her back andI was kind of half on my side.
I guess how do you think thatStacy got cut? I have no
idea. Everybody there, we wereall friends, like you and Stacy had
kind of had a little beef goingon because of Brandon. It was so

(43:28):
stupid that way it was. Iagree. It was like one of those
just petty high school girl things,right exactly. So you and Stacy had
kind of had this little beef That'swhat led to this fight. Did you
have your pocket knife with you thatday? Honestly? That one like it
was one of the little like foldfolding a folding knife. Is it possible

(43:51):
that you had it with you whenyou guys were having your little tussela match
in the backyard. No. Hollieadmitted that she did usually carry a knife
with her for protection, but sheclaimed that she didn't have it on her
during the fight with Stacy. Sheexplained that she kept the knife in her
purse, but she wasn't carrying whenthe fight happened. Holly insisted that she

(44:13):
would have never stabbed Stacy because despitethe anger they had for each other,
Holly still considered Stacy to be afriend. She was my friend. We
were terrible teenage girls, but shewas still my friend. I would not
have done that to her intentionally.I never would have pulled a knife on
her. Like I had no intentionof fighting her. I didn't know that

(44:35):
she was gonna be there. Wewere terrible bitches to each other, but
she was still my friend. She'syour friend. But you guys were also
in a pretty good pisson match overa boy. If there, if you
had a pocket knife and she gotcut by it, then I just need
to know that I just have stillhad it. It's like, even if

(44:55):
that would have happened when they pulledus apart, I would have still had
Holly attempted to make the very ideaof her having a knife seem impossible.
Surely, if she had a knife, the police would have found it on
her after the fight. Either thator Holly stashed the knife somewhere before cops

(45:15):
arrived on scene, which is exactlywhat Holly allegedly told Brandon that she did.
A couple of days later, whenI called Holly on the phone and
I got to talking to her aboutwhat happened, and she proceeded to tell
her that she, you know,that she didn't stab her, but that
she had a knife, and andasked her, well, what did what

(45:37):
did she do with the knife?And she told me that after Stacy fell
on the ground, she went inthe house, washed her hands, stepped
outside the front door, and therewas a white car park out front of
like a Lincoln some floor door.She said that she placed the knife on
the back of it of the gardenersthe window. Detective Martin and his partner
believed and were confident that Holly didhave a knife on her during the fight,

(46:00):
and that Holly stabbed Stacy to death. They also believe that Holly was
still lying about it. What doyou think happened to her? How do
you think she got those stab wounds. I don't know. I thought at
one point that it was glass.That was the only thing that I could
think of. I have all thereports, all the autopsy reports. Glass

(46:22):
did not cut her. It wasa puncture wound from a knife. Holly.
This this is the time. Ifthere's some stuff you want to get
off your chest, do it.There's no dispute that you and Stacy got
into it, and Stacy's wounds happenedduring the fight. I'm just trying to
figure out how or why. Thereis no way it did. That is

(46:44):
very well articulated by the medical factsthat were gained from the autopsy. There's
no way that that would have happenedwithout me realizing it. If you had
the pocket knife on you and yougot tussling, yeah, I mean,
just tell me, because otherwise itlooks it just doesn't look good. I
know that if I even felt likethat was a remote possibility, then I

(47:05):
would say that. And I neverI never have I never would have pulled
a knife on anybody. Despite theattempts to get her to admit otherwise,
Holly maintained that she did not havea knife and that she never stabbed Stacy.
This left Detective Martin with only oneoption. Holly, I could tell
by looking at you and from talkingto you and watching you, watching you

(47:29):
breathe, just watching your eyes go. You just gotta say it. There's
nothing for me to say. AllRight, I'm gonna tell you what's going
to happen. Then I'm going togo back to Fort Wayne and I'm going
to present the case to the prosecutor'soffice, and I'm gonna charge you with
murder. After this harsh reality wasmade clear to Holly, she did something
that nobody saw coming. Again.Holly did admit to having a pocket knife

(47:52):
in her purse on the night thatStacy was stabbed, but she claimed that
she wasn't carrying it during a fight. On a whim, Detective Martin asked
Holly if she still had that knife. Do you still have that pocket knife?
By chance? I might, soas we're talking, I asked the

(48:13):
question, do you still have thispocket knife from back then that you would
have had the knight of the stabbing. I had no inkling that she was
going to say, yeah, Istill have this knife for oh well,
maybe I still have this knife.But Holly said that she believed that she
did. She got up and shewalked back into a back bedroom. Holly

(48:34):
came back with a small package ora small box and had a knife in
it and hated me the pocket knife. It's not every day that a murder
suspect hands over a potential murder weapondirectly to the police, but sure enough,
that's exactly what happened here. Hollyeven offered up a little bag for

(48:57):
the evidence. Are you saying Ican have it? Yes? Oh yeah,
if you get a zep blog bag, I'll say it. I was
almost speechless because it shocked me.I think that she wanted to show me
that she was trying to be cooperative, and that by showing her cooperation that
maybe I would stop talking to her. I think it's probably one of those

(49:20):
things that for many years she lookedover her shoulder, always wondering when somebody
was going to come try and talkto her about this case, and enough
time had passed that she was startingto feel comfortable. So I think I
really shocked her and took her outof her element. And when you do
that to people, they tend todo bizarre there's oftentimes bizarre behavior. After
receiving this knife Detective Martin headed backto Fort Wayne and had a pathologist examine

(49:45):
it along with photographs of Stacy's injuries, and this pathologist stated that the knife
was completely consistent with a weapon thatwould cause the injuries that killed Stacy.
I then immediately packaged up the knifeand it was sent to the Indiana State
Police Lab for forensic testing. Theknife was completely taken apart down in all

(50:10):
the nooks and crannies. It wasswabbed and no DNA for Stacy de green
Champ and no DNA at all waslocated on this knife. DNA was a
long shot, but given the pathologists'findings, Detective Martin felt he had enough
evidence to arrest Holly for murder,and Fort Wayne prosecutors agreed. In March

(50:32):
of twenty twenty, almost twenty yearsafter the murder, Holly Boysvurt was finally
arrested for the killing of Stacy degrand Chair. I had Holly taken to
an interview room at the fund electPolice Department. I attempted to interview Holly.
She was very stand offish. Isaw a different side of Holly.

(50:52):
I saw a pissed off side ofHolly. She was very indignant with me
and thought that I was messing withher, and she felt that people picked
on her. She felt that shewas the victim of everything. So after
that interview, or our lack thereofan interview, Holly was transported back to
the Fort Wayne Police Department. AfterHolly was arrested, it didn't take long

(51:14):
for this news to reach Stacy's cousinJamie McMillan and the rest of Stacy's family.
I was ecstatic. I was speechless. It brought me back to that
same day that I found out thatshe died. Hours later of saying to
myself, we are going to getthe person that did this, that my
motivation is to see her behind bars, and that feeling of sadness, but

(51:37):
completely overjoyed that this finally happened.It was amazing. I couldn't wait to
call my aunt and for us tosay those words, we got her,
we got her. She's behind barsand she's going to stay there for a
long time. Even though Holly wasbehind bars, the police investigation didn't stop.

(51:57):
If anything, it only ramped upand some very important information came the
light. On the night that Stacywas stabbed, Holly had been previously dropped
off at the house party by twoof her friends, Whitney mcgeehee and Amanda
Richards. Whitney claims she never sawHolly with a knife, but apparently Amanda

(52:21):
did. We got to the housethat night, and before we got there,
Holly always had a knife that shecarried with her, so she always
kept a knife on her for protection. Well, that night she took the
knife with her when we got there. She had me hold it in my
purse. You know. While wewere there, Whitney and I started getting

(52:44):
like just a weird feeling. Wewere just ready to go, and we
tried to get Holly, like conmenceHolly to leave with us, but because
Brandon was still there, Holly didn'twant to leave, okay, So as
Whitney and I were getting ready toleave, Holly asked me for the knife
back, and I didn't think anythingof it, you know, so I

(53:05):
gave it back to her. Thisinformation that Amanda gave to police was a
startling revelation. It was potentially firsthandtestimony of someone putting a knife into Holly's
hands within an hour of Stacy degrand Champ being stabbed to death. This,
of course begged the question why didit take so long for Amanda to

(53:29):
tell this story? Amanda came forwardwith this information. I don't know why
she didn't come up with it prior. Maybe she didn't think about it,
Maybe it wasn't something that really keyedin on her, or maybe she was
in disbelief or or didn't want tobelieve that something like this could happen.
Maybe she was scared that, ohGod, I'm the one that gave Holly

(53:49):
her knife back and led to thisdeath. I don't know that we'll ever
know truly why this information didn't getto us until so late. Amanda's very
of the events could have easily beenscrutinized by a defense attorney during a trial,
but that didn't change the fact thatFort Wayne prosecutors had a pretty solid
case against Holly. This was avery strong case with great physical evidence as

(54:15):
far as a possible murder weapon thatwas obtained. It's consistent with the injuries.
The injuries are definitely stab wounds.We have individual who is putting,
you know, Amanda's putting a knifein Holly's hand just prior to the altercation.
This is all very strong evidence.Initially, Holly Boisberg pleaded not guilty

(54:36):
to killing Stacy, but after beingpresented with the evidence that the state had,
she eventually accepted a plea deal.As part of that agreement, Holly
would finally have to admit in courtthat she killed Stacy the grand cham Holly
took the stand and the judge askedher, do you know while you're here?

(54:57):
And she said, yes, Iwas in a fight and I took
a knife and I stabbed these degreemshamp twice. He said, you stabbed
her twice. Yes, I stabbedher twice and that resulted in her death.
And that's what I had been waitingto hear for so many years,
was the confession that she in factdid kill Stacy, even though in our

(55:19):
minds we knew all along. Butto have that confession, Stacy's family finally
got some answers, and after Hollyadmitted to the crime, it was time
for her to be sentenced. Hollywas very quiet in court. They asked
her if she had anything to say. Holly said no. The judge then
said, you know, you shouldapologize to the family and she said,

(55:43):
I'm sorry, and that's it.It was very generic. It was not
heartfelt at all. I can tellyou that I do not believe that Holly
was truly remorseful for what she haddone. During the sentence phase, Holly
didn't do herself any favors. Despitethis, and considering that she committed a

(56:07):
murder, Hollie did walk away witha pretty good deal. Holly's sentencing was
twenty years behind bars, and shealready had served two years in Allen County
Jail before her sentencing almost and sheended up getting which if she has good

(56:30):
behavior, she will get out early, and that would practically mean that she
would only have another additional eight yearsto serve, which is not at all
serving justice in my mind, andthose twenty years should have held up.
I don't feel like her serving tenyears behind bars is enough for murdering someone.
Would I'd like to see her getmore time. Absolutely, I would

(56:52):
have liked to see that because Ifeel that it's very it's just so unjust
for Stacy and Stacy's family to knowthat person who killed their loved one has
been living their life for the lasttwenty years just doing whatever they want to
do, raised the child and Stacynever had that. With good behavior,

(57:12):
Holly could be released from prison asearly as twenty thirty and may only serve
ten years, though that will requireher to petition a parole board, and
Jamie intends to be there when shedoes, along with several other members of
the family. For them, thefight continues to ensure that justice is truly

(57:36):
done. It's worth noting that Stacyand her family aren't the only victims here,
so too are all of Stacy's friends. For example, Abby was the
one who convinced Stacy to go tothis party, despite Stacy's reservations. Abby
also drove Stacy there. She hasto live with that for the rest of

(57:59):
her life. I mean, I'vegone this whole time trying to help my
life and try and get over this, like anxiety and depression took years to
get over, and it's still astruggle with trust. And you think somebody's
your friend and they're going to haveyour back and they love this kind of
stuff happened to you and your friends. Sure, I mean it's hard,

(58:19):
I get it. Similarly, everyonewho was close to Stacy during those important
developmental years of high school mut's copewith the trauma of all of this.
It's one thing to say your friendwas murdered, but then to say,
your friend's murdered by your other friend. That was one of the most messed
up things I've ever had to dealwith in my life. We were all

(58:42):
so messed up from it. Youwere just You're not the first person to
tell me. I mean, itreally screwed melft worst thing that ever happened
in my life. There are manyvictims in this case, and it goes
without saying that nobody has suffered morethan Stacy's family. They continue to feel
Stacy's absence while also always wondering whatcould have been. There's avoid there's a

(59:07):
gap. We all feel it.Every holiday. There's always somebody missing.
No matter how many years have passed, it's still her presence seems to be
there, and it's extremely unfair thatit's not. We think about her all
the time. I think about howmany kids she would have. I think
about how happy her mom would behaving grandchildren, being that Stacy was her
only child and she doesn't get todo that. While Holly's confession and conviction

(59:32):
provided Stacy's family with some relief,it doesn't change the fact that Stacy is
gone forever. As Detective Martin putsit, the idea of getting closure in
a murder case is pretty much abunch of nonsense. I think closure is
a bullshit word and a murder case, and I firmly believe that. And

(59:53):
I believe that because no one canwrap their head around or fully have closure.
I always describe it to people asyour life is a book. Maybe
I helped write a little bit ofthat ending chapter and told them how and
answer some of the questions why andhow their loved one passed away. But

(01:00:15):
then they have to learn the newnormal they have. These families have to
learn what the next chapter of lifeis, how does it look without their
loved one now that they have theseanswers that they've been looking for for so
long. As for Stacy's family,the next chapter and subsequent chapters of life
don't come with much closure, ifany at all. Not only do they

(01:00:37):
have to deal with the fact thatStacy is gone, but also they are
going to eventually have to argue toa parole board that Holly should stay in
prison. For them, the pursuitof justice is a never ending battle,

(01:00:57):
one that they never asked to fight. On top of that, some of
Stacy's family members still aren't entirely surethat Holly was the only person responsible for
Stacy's death. I feel as ifin my mind that there may have been
some type of conspiracy between friends.I do think Brandon was upset that Stacy

(01:01:20):
broke up with him. I dothink he was trying to get back with
her. I'm not one hundred percentcertain on anything, but just in my
own, my own mind, thisconspiracy of thinking that she was brought there
that night and it wasn't what shewanted to do, just nothing made sense
to me. And maybe believe thatthat, you know, Brandon knew something
more than what he's ever told thedetectives. I felt like Abby knew more

(01:01:42):
than what she ever told the detectives. I felt like Amanda handing Holly that
knife that night. Those were thingsthat I did not know. That has
kind of come about over the lastcouple of years. The idea that there
was a conspiracy among friends to murderStacy seems unlikely, mainly because when Holly
confessed, she did not implicate anyoneelse. But that's not the point.

(01:02:08):
The point is that in this case, and in almost all murder cases,
there will always be unanswered questions,and because of that, closure can never
truly happen. There is also another, albeit more broad takeaway from this story,

(01:02:29):
which is don't take life and romancetoo seriously. Life is precious and
life is valuable, and don't sweatthe dumb shit. Boyfriend's girlfriends will come
from our lives in and out,and when you're seventeen years old, that
may seem like, God, thisis the leve of my life. But
we all know that with love there'sheartbreak and we pick up the pieces and

(01:02:52):
we move on. So we can'tget so engrossed in something at such a
young age that caused somebody to losetheir life. The murder of seventeen year
old Stacy de grand Champ happened forabsolutely no reason and could have resulted in
something as simple as a shouting matchbetween two teenage girls, maybe even a

(01:03:15):
fistfight and some hair pulling in aparking lot somewhere. It never had to
escalate to the point that Holly tookit. Tragically, Holly did escalate it
to exactly that point. A youngand promising life was lost, countless victims

(01:03:36):
were made, and almost two yearslater, Holly Boisburg ends up in a
prison cell. Well, that's goingto do it. For another one.

(01:04:25):
Thank you so much for joining us. We'll be right back here for plus
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(01:04:51):
Oh, and stay safe, hey, Mike and Sword and Scale teams.

(01:05:39):
I think this message belongs here forsure, because everybody needs to know how
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(01:06:00):
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That's all for life.