Episode 276

In the rare moments where love and fate converge, Reggie and Carol Sumner uncover a decades-old romance after years of being separated. Just as they begin a new life together in Florida, tragedy strikes them both, leading them to their darkest hours. When they turn up missing, their frantic daughter living in another state sets out on a quest for their return and discovers that time is running out.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence, and is
not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Listen, I don't know what to do if I tell
you this, Well, I don't want We got a friends.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
Hello and welcome. This is season eleven, episode two hundred
and seventy six of Sword and Scale, the show that.

Speaker 4 (00:32):
Reveals that the worst monsters are real.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
You ever take a road trip for a couple of
days or maybe even weeks?

Speaker 5 (01:28):
I have.

Speaker 3 (01:30):
Those days were fun. Gotta admit. Trading in the brand
new sports car for an SUV so I could pack
my dog Alie with all of my worldly possessions and
head north from South Florida one of the best things
I've ever done in my life, to be quite honest,
one of the most rewarding, enjoyable times of my life.

(01:55):
And things happen on trips like that. You run into delays,
like aphic jams, detours, bad weather. I got stuck in
a hurricane and had some shenanigans happen in a men's
bathroom in northern Florida. And no, it's not what you're thinking.
But the point is that all kinds of things happen

(02:16):
sometimes you lose your wallet or your keys, or you
lock yourself out of your car, and pretty soon the
trip you're on isn't even close to the one you've
imagined in your head in your cabeza. Sure, you've met
some cool people and even eaten at the dingy diner
at the corner of nowhere. Food was fucking great, But

(02:40):
you missed out on a few really important things too,
because life just threw a few curveballs your way. And
everybody knows, everybody that's been on this earth for more
than three seconds knows that shit happens, but it usually
ends up okay in the end. Usually in a quaint

(03:32):
South Carolinian town. In the early sixties, the love story
of a married couple named Carol and Reggie unfolded like
a fairy tale. Their tale began during high school when
they were just fifteen and started dating the classmates. Soon
became the ideal couple, inseparable and deeply in love. Nothing

(03:55):
like that high school love. It's life or death for
some Graduation in nineteen sixty two was supposed to mark
the beginning of their married life, but Reggie's called to
military service disrupted their plans. Somewhere In the midst of this,
they took different roads and went their separate ways. Carol,

(04:16):
resilient and determined, found security in a job in the
nearby Air Force base and briefly explored another marriage before
eventually marrying a man named Richard. Unfortunately, richard struggles with
alcoholism cast a dark shadow over their relationship. A domineering
and abusive figure, he harbored an intense desire to keep

(04:39):
Carol within his grasp. Any hint of independence from her
would trigger merciless beatings. Regrettably, their young daughter saw a
lot of the explosive scenes her father's anger and chaos
seemed to dominate their family home. Carol mustered every viber

(05:00):
of strength she had and filed for divorce in nineteen
eighty seven. The late nineties brought another cruel twist of
Carol's life with a diagnosis of liver cancer. Her courageous
battle left her a survivor, but one with a lifetime
of daily medication and regular checkups what a consistent horror cancerous.

(05:28):
To accommodate her medical needs, she took a job at
a call center answering phones for the local cable company,
where she could continue to work in a way that
wasn't physically demanding. Reggie also had his share of life's challenges,
including a marriage that eventually ended and a number of

(05:49):
health problems of his own. Years passed for both Carol
and Reggie until a fateful day in two thousand. Carol,
working at the call center, received a call from a
familiar voice. Her body trembled at the sound because it
was Reggie. He had no idea he was speaking to Carol,

(06:12):
but she recognized the voice belonging to the love of
her life. This mere phone call triggered a reconnection with
her high school sweetheart after thirty eight years of separation.
Can you even imagine? Their reunion was sweet and profound,

(06:33):
leading to daily meetings, moving in together within weeks, and
exchanging vows in just a couple of months. I mean,
it's not like they didn't have years to think about
what they were missing. Rnda, Carol's daughter, vividly remembered her
mother's happiness that day and how the couple's love story

(06:54):
came back to life. Despite their challenging medical histories, they
found solid in each other, creating a life filled with
happiness and love and comfort. They settled into Reggie's home
in Charleston, partly to be near an ill friend who
also needed their help. Carol's daughter felt like she truly

(07:16):
had a father and a loving family. Carol and Reggie's
love story, marked by tragedy and triumph, continued as they
took each day as it came, with gratitude for the
love they had finally found in each other. This is
Reggie's brother talking about both him and his sister in law, Carol.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
I would like to tell you about my brother and
his wife, Carol. Reggie and Carol were the most innocent,
kind hearted, and wonderful members of my family. They were
good neighbors. They were kind, and they were trustworthy. Hell
those that were in need and they had to give

(08:02):
the hospitality, Reggie would give you the shirt office back
if you knew you needed it. They were givers. They
were contributors to society. We were raised in a large family.
Reggie was a life of the family. He was a
party of the family reunions. He was always funny, telling

(08:25):
jokes and keeping people happy was his trademark. He would
always insist on paying bills at a restaurant, and he
had a habit of showing up at your door, unannounced
with goodies and cheers. He was a wonderful brother. Reggie
had a rough grown up in the house of eleven
brothers and sisters. He was the seventh child of the

(08:48):
Sumner family. He was the baby. Our father was killed
in a motorcycle accidents when Reggie was just six weeks
sold at thirty two. There was a little with seven children.
She remarried and had four more children. Mister Clark, our stepdad,

(09:10):
passed away in nineteen fifty three, and as the older
and brothers and sisters were moving out, getting married or
joining the military, Reggie stepped up to the plate and
became the fatherlike figure and helped raise the younger siblings.
He was such a good leader. He always sat a

(09:32):
wonderful example for everyone. He was so loved by his siblings.
Reggie was retired from sea such railroad and although he
and Caow were in port health, they loved each other.
They loved staying together.

Speaker 3 (09:47):
In love and relationships, many people, myself included, run through
several partners trying to find the right one. It's not easy.
I think that's pretty obvious. You make a lot of
mistakes along the way. Often circumstances, timing, or personal growth

(10:08):
lead people to just settle. Life has a habit of
moving on and sometimes even getting in the way, so
sometimes it's just easier to find comfort, stability, and companionship
and marriages that didn't start up or end up like
Reggie or Carol's. Unlike fairy tales, it's a rare couple

(10:30):
who meet and marry in high school without divorcing just
a few years later, But rare and extraordinary love stories
like theirs do exist. I happen to know firsthand, and yes,
I know how lucky I am. Two people who have

(10:50):
been through it marriage and divorce and then rediscovered each
other after decades. They become even more extraordinary when they
stayed again until their golden years of retirement. Finally they
get to spend quality time with their loved ones, free
from all the immaturity and the bullshit that goes with

(11:11):
any relationship. At any point, when you've worked on yourself
through trial and error for decades and you finally meet
someone else that has done the same thing, it's kind
of magical. This is how Carol and Reggie felt about
each other, like their love was the rarest in the world.

(11:31):
And they were the luckiest people on earth.

Speaker 6 (11:36):
Reggie and Carroll dated in a high school, and many
years later they connected and got married. They lived in Charleston,
and by this time we lived in Jacksonville. Carol was
easy going person and.

Speaker 7 (11:49):
A good cook.

Speaker 6 (11:50):
She kept Reggie well fed and enjoyed the good food
and the good cook.

Speaker 1 (11:56):
She was.

Speaker 6 (11:57):
The first time I visited them when they lived in
lands Since South Carolina. I spent a couple of nights
with them on that trip there again, Reggie came the
neighborhood big brother, dad and friend. Reggie and Carol were
only married a few years.

Speaker 3 (12:14):
A few years with Reggie already seemed like a blissful
lifetime compared to what Carol had to put up with
in her longest second marriage to Richard. Being married to
this tyrant made meeting Reggie all the sweeter. One afternoon
back in the past, when Carol was at home with

(12:35):
just her daughter Rohnda, Richard, who was now her ex,
had decided to carry out a bit of a nefarious plan.
You see, Richard was depressed and he didn't want to
live anymore. So, you know, if he wasn't going to
be on this earth anymore, then neither would his wife, Carol,

(12:55):
So that afternoon, he entered the home, started an argument,
and shot Carol multiple times in front of their ten
year old daughter. Gunshots shattered the tranquility of their home
and the vicinity. Neighbors knew something bad was happening, so
they called police immediately. Emergency responders rushed Carol to the hospital,

(13:21):
where her life hung in the balance. Miraculously, she emerged
from this whole ordeal, but her right eye bore the
scars of the tragic incident for the next year. Ten
year old Ronda was compelled to act as her mother's nurse,
pulling her back from the brink of death. After the

(13:45):
trauma of her abusive marriage and nearly losing her life,
Carol had strong doubts about getting involved with anyone ever again.
That is until she reunited with Reggie, who brought a
ray of light into her life. It was like finding
a favorite blanket tucked away in the closet, one that

(14:07):
you thought you had accidentally thrown away. They already knew
and trusted each other. They already knew who they were,
they had known for decades. Yet as the years unfolded,
an unforeseen tragedy loomed. Little did they know that their
love story would face yet another poignant chapter, a chapter

(14:32):
that would include burying their love forever. In rural South Carolina.

(15:12):
During the nineteen sixties, Carol and Reggie's teenage love was
abruptly interrupted when Reggie answered the call of military service,
leading them on separate paths. Carol faced some pretty tough years,
previously living through an abusive marriage to Richard, who mercilessly

(15:32):
shot her numerous times in front of their ten year
old daughter before ending his own life. Such a horrible
thing to experience. Such a selfish prick you have to
be to do that to someone you claim to love.
Carol's next challenge would be battling liver cancer in the
late nineteen nineties. As life's winding path unfolded, Reggie two

(15:57):
faced challenges, including the end of a marriage. Remarkably, fate
intervened in two thousand, reuniting Carol and Reggie after thirty
eight years. They picked up right where they left off
and were the happiest they'd ever been, But fate was
about to force the loving couple into a dark detour.

(16:21):
The couple were now living in Jacksonville, Florida, where they
relocated to be near some of Reggie's family, while Carol's
daughter remained in South Carolina.

Speaker 8 (16:32):
Yes, I am in Charleston, South Carolina, and I need
someone to go to my mother's home to CFC is
alive issue there. I can't reach her. See have I
He'll follow?

Speaker 9 (16:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (16:46):
She get liver cancer and her husband is a severe
diabetic two zero one five Reed Avenue. And the last
time we saw it with her Tuesday morning.

Speaker 7 (17:00):
What's her name?

Speaker 8 (17:02):
Her name is Carol Sumner.

Speaker 9 (17:05):
You know why.

Speaker 8 (17:05):
I'm a female. Yes, And her husband is Reggie and
he's dead. Written and so he walked into the door.

Speaker 3 (17:15):
Ronda had just embarked on a lengthy mission to locate
her mom and stepdad, a long journey that was just beginning.

Speaker 9 (17:23):
And I like you.

Speaker 8 (17:24):
I've liked probably twelve messages today alone, and they are
both the sort of part of hearing. So I need
somebody to really really beat on the door. I just
feel something's wrong.

Speaker 3 (17:35):
At that point, she was told she couldn't file a
missing person's report over the phone, and that she would
need to call the Jacksonville Police to make arrangements.

Speaker 8 (17:45):
May help you, Well, I need to file I seeing
persons report and I'm out of the town. Can I
do it over the phone? I'm sorry missing my mother
and her husband.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
And while you said they're missing them, let's play on.

Speaker 8 (18:04):
Nobody has hurt or seen from seen him or heard
from them since Friday. Uh huh. They are in very
poor help. And Officer Nelson spent several hours last night
over at their home and he said that it was
just you know, it looks like they had they just
up and left, but they left the dog there and

(18:26):
the dog is inside and something something, something's wrong because
they called me over a week and nobody. The last
time they were seeing or heard from was Friday, and
Officer Nelson told me I needed to file I'm missing
person's report, but I'm in Charleston, South Carolina. Okay, is
there anybody here's a finer reports for them here in Jacksonville. No,

(18:50):
the family have a key to their residents. Yes I do,
I mean here is Jacksonville. You know the door was unlocked.
Officer Nelson was in there her house.

Speaker 9 (19:01):
The door was unlocked.

Speaker 8 (19:02):
He was inside their house. Yeah, okay, one was the
report felt last night. I called Directonville Police Department in
last night to have an officer go to the and
why wasn't her report out last night?

Speaker 3 (19:18):
Exactly? That's what Rohnda wanted to know. Why wasn't a
report filed? They were both disabled, hadn't responded to calls
for days, and left the dog alone. Again, she was
passed on to another dispatcher when she asked for Officer Nelson,
the officer who actually entered the home and saw that

(19:41):
her parents were gone.

Speaker 8 (19:43):
Hello mea yes, yes, this is miss for instance. Yes, okay,
did you talk to the officer yesterday? Yes, m I
talked to him numerous times last night. He was He
went to the house and he said the door was
unlocked and the dog was still insign He got a
little dog and he said, there are several hours trying

(20:04):
to He found her address book and he called the
sister in law, but by bound if anybody has heard
of someone, and the last time anybody has seen or
her from them was Friday, and they are in very
she's being treated for liver cancer and he's a diabetic.
So he went into the house. He was Yes, he
was in the house because I'm charge. He made a report,

(20:27):
but I don't know if it's a mission personal report.

Speaker 9 (20:29):
Let me show you.

Speaker 8 (20:30):
He said he did not file on Miss Carson report.
And that's what I'm calling to do. Now, Okay, and
where are you ave? I'm in Charleston, South Carolina, trying
to get down there.

Speaker 10 (20:41):
Are you driving?

Speaker 7 (20:41):
Now?

Speaker 8 (20:42):
What do you mean by trying?

Speaker 1 (20:43):
Now?

Speaker 8 (20:44):
I'm trying to make a racist to get there. I've
got two small childress. I'm trying to make a racists
to get down there. I said, I don't want to
if I get in at midnight, I don't want to,
you know, I'd like to set the filed as soon
as possible. She's something's wrong.

Speaker 3 (20:58):
My god. Don't ever lose your disabled parents in another state.
I guess.

Speaker 8 (21:04):
He also was able to retrieve the license tag number
of their car, because their car was also missing. They
have a South Carolina Drubbers bison and the South Carolina
driver license tag if they just moved to Florida, And
he was able to retrieve that information, and he told
me I needed to report the car stolen.

Speaker 9 (21:26):
It's okay, I'm.

Speaker 10 (21:27):
Thinking, And they're not are they They're not on a hospice.

Speaker 11 (21:34):
Or anything like that.

Speaker 8 (21:35):
No, I talked every I talked probably nine hospitals in
that area, and Andrea is it admitted or treated? And nobody,
nobody had them in their in their system. Officer Nelson
was able to retrieve information about if an ambulance had
transported them, and that came up negative. Well, you know

(21:57):
what I mean, the ambulance did not visit the house.

Speaker 9 (21:59):
Right there's the does.

Speaker 8 (22:01):
Not make a chance that they are just and my
mother and I are very close. We talk every single day,
every day, and I've not heard from her since Monday.
I'm sorry, last Tuesday. Last Tuesday morning, after the fourth
of July, he called me, and I've not talked to
her since then. And I figured that maybe they were
sleeping or something, and then I I'm on yesterday I

(22:22):
called the police department to have an officer go over
there to see, right, they were dead. I didn't know, right,
but the house, the house was unlocked, the car was missing.
And who said that the house right next door, either
yesterday or the day before it had been burglarized. And
with me being a state and half away, I'm very

(22:45):
in there. So did you need contact with the neighbors?
He said, he did, but I don't. The last time
he said the neighbors saw a light on Friday. That's
what I'm saying. The last time they were heard or
seen was on Friday.

Speaker 3 (23:00):
Foul play was becoming obvious. You don't need a little
badge for that. The neighbors just had their house broken into.
Poor Ronda knew something was really wrong, but found herself
answering twenty questions with each operator she reached, But the
next question just seemed MM silly. She wanted to know

(23:25):
if they had maybe just gotten in the car and
gone on vacation.

Speaker 8 (23:31):
No, absolutely not, not without calling me. He's a diabetic,
his health is extremely poorced and he's got a broken leg.
She has an IVY suture to her arms for her
seamilar therapy. I mean, it's not like I'm just they're
not bedridden, but it's not like they can just get
up and go. They're just there. She's got liver. Answer,

(23:52):
they're extremely ill.

Speaker 9 (23:54):
What what's your last saying? Miss Branson?

Speaker 8 (23:58):
My life name is Branson?

Speaker 3 (24:00):
What's your last name? Miss Branson? Do that just a second?
Did you get the joke yet? N Maybe you don't
belong here?

Speaker 8 (24:10):
Then would I also file a missing the car missing
with that part?

Speaker 12 (24:13):
With you?

Speaker 1 (24:14):
Well?

Speaker 9 (24:14):
If you have the you have a tag number and all.

Speaker 8 (24:16):
The officer Nelson retrieved it from South Carolina records or whatever.
But I don't know it. I can win, they can
be at it on later. But if somebody took them
and they're you know, you've got them somewhere and they's
got the car, I mean, we won't find the car
before we find them. You can think, right, I see
what you're saying, but I don't have any way to

(24:38):
He didn't make a note in the record, and now
I don't see it. Any idea when he'll we got
on duty at seven o'clock tonight.

Speaker 3 (24:47):
We've all been there right stuck in a chat message
loop or automated phone tree, or pushed through from one
person to the next. You'all have comcast right, all for
a simple question. But this was about her missing parents,
not about her cable bill. Every passing second could be

(25:10):
a crucial second. Ronda was desperately trying to make arrangements
for her children so she could make the seven hour
drive to Jacksonville, Florida. She asked for any officer to
call her as soon as possible and what the address
of the police department was, so she could go there herself,

(25:31):
but then she was directed to go straight to the
house of her parents. The next call you hear is
the one Ronda made once she reached Jacksonville.

Speaker 10 (25:45):
Yes, I need to have an officer out so ease,
I need to saw a missing Parkingsy Court.

Speaker 9 (25:50):
Let's the address man, twenty fifteen, three Avenue.

Speaker 10 (25:56):
Car Computers, Johns, my mother, her husband.

Speaker 9 (26:03):
What's your name, Fonda Franson? Did you already fall into report?

Speaker 1 (26:08):
You know?

Speaker 10 (26:08):
I haven't.

Speaker 9 (26:09):
I called into a report.

Speaker 10 (26:10):
And I live in Chelton, South Carolina, and I just
came into town, and I was told you to call
when I got here, And I'm here and a new
officer here so I can call the report.

Speaker 3 (26:20):
Every time she spoke with a new nine to one
one operator, she was asked the same repetitive questions, leaving
her caught in a whirlwind of frustration when all she
wanted to do was locate her parents as quickly as possible.

Speaker 9 (26:35):
What was time to do?

Speaker 10 (26:36):
Is we have your call in the system already. I
seemed like somebody said, oh, had you set up have
an officer to come talk to you with trying to
figure out your parents?

Speaker 9 (26:47):
And you were appointing both of them missing? Your mother
and her husband?

Speaker 13 (26:51):
Yeah?

Speaker 9 (26:52):
Okay? How long have they been missing? Since Friday'll find me?
Wait in the car? Yeah, as far as I don't know.

Speaker 10 (27:01):
I live in Charlston, South Carolina, and I okay they
all have any other relatives here?

Speaker 14 (27:06):
No?

Speaker 9 (27:07):
Okay?

Speaker 15 (27:07):
There?

Speaker 10 (27:07):
And you're in Jacksonville? Now on at their house? Oh,
you're at the house and now yes, okay? What's your
okay to call? What's your mother's name?

Speaker 9 (27:19):
Carol Thunder? Okay? How did she? She is sixty two?

Speaker 10 (27:27):
Sixty Q?

Speaker 9 (27:27):
Your wire? Black female? White?

Speaker 8 (27:30):
White female?

Speaker 9 (27:32):
What's the houseless lang? James Reginald Sumner?

Speaker 10 (27:37):
How the nine eighteen forty three is his birthday?

Speaker 9 (27:42):
What kind of call of the lasting driven?

Speaker 10 (27:45):
Uh?

Speaker 9 (27:46):
Blue? Town? Are Lincoln Town?

Speaker 8 (27:47):
Far blue?

Speaker 9 (27:48):
Lincoln Town?

Speaker 8 (27:48):
Car?

Speaker 9 (27:50):
You know the tag number on that? Yeah, ma'am? Is
it also you're gonna come out? Yes, but you'll need
to put this air for matonus. So we bowlow? Can
we point listed is Branson? You may be upset, but
we are doing.

Speaker 10 (28:02):
Our job and this is what we have to do
because if they're missing, that loss and they're probably.

Speaker 9 (28:07):
Lost, so we could have put a bolo out and
if anybody see them somewhere else in the city.

Speaker 10 (28:11):
They can notify the offer for this on the way.
So that's why I'm getting this. I don't know the
tag members. Think you don't know the tag member.

Speaker 8 (28:19):
Go ahead.

Speaker 10 (28:21):
Officer Nelson was able to retreat the tag member from
South Carolina.

Speaker 9 (28:24):
I didn't get it from him.

Speaker 3 (28:26):
He is he got it interesting that one of the
reasons her parents had been missing for so long was
that no one in the system was communicating with each other.
Every call she made to nine one one er the
police was like starting all over again, entering a new
ticket in your customer support system.

Speaker 9 (28:49):
Ah.

Speaker 3 (28:49):
The efficiency of government, and then this lady gets an
attitude with her on top of everything. By this time,
Rondo was exhausted, wouldn't you be.

Speaker 9 (29:00):
That's when I want sarapox. Yeah, I called one hour ago.
A police officers. Just come out to the house.

Speaker 10 (29:08):
I can folly missing person three ft address twenty fifteen
read avenue.

Speaker 9 (29:15):
Two zero one five read avenue. Yes, my mom, you
know what's going on?

Speaker 16 (29:21):
Now?

Speaker 9 (29:24):
Well this folks, come out. There's you what is fo
call you?

Speaker 5 (29:26):
That what the phone?

Speaker 9 (29:27):
Yeah, there's just a zero one five yes.

Speaker 10 (29:31):
Two zero five zero Now twenty fifteen two zero one five.

Speaker 8 (29:39):
I came in and I can't.

Speaker 9 (29:40):
I called from the driveway the second I drove in
from a just second. Let me do this group of
five book okay.

Speaker 10 (29:46):
Okay, thank you, yes, hello, yes, yes, I'm waiting on
an officer and meet me at my mother's house.

Speaker 9 (29:53):
I can follow missing person three four, I call it
three forty okay, what's your address? Twenty fifteen Avenue? Okay.

Speaker 3 (30:05):
What Ronda didn't know was that her parents' kindness and
generosity had backfired on them, as happens to good people
from time to time, especially in the world we live
in today. It's always someone trying to take advantage of
you in one way or another. Just look around. Just

(30:27):
look at those plus prices. Am I right? Remember that
the neighbor's home had just been robbed. That was now
becoming the assumption with Carol and Reggie. Their disappearance was
in fact tied to a burglary, but not by the
same burglars who entered the neighbor's home.

Speaker 5 (30:46):
Weird.

Speaker 3 (30:47):
The couple had very recently moved to Jacksonville, Florida, to
be near relatives and also one of Reggie's closest friends
who was dying of cancer. This man was divorced because
he'd been in prison. His daughter, Tiffany was living with
her mom at the time. Tiffany was a good student,
a cheerleader, and a band member, but she also had

(31:11):
a lot of demands at home, like basically raising her
younger brother. By the tenth grade, she had tired of
all of this and was starting to hang with the
wrong drug using crowd. When she discovered that her dad
was ill and no one was around to help him,
it was a win win situation. She would go stay

(31:34):
with him and she would escape her demanding life. Within
that time, she met the Sumners, Carol and Reggie. They
could see that she had a kind heart and a
helpful mindset. After all, she was supporting her dad in
this time of need, despite having serious health conditions of

(31:56):
their own. They had also been helping out their friend
Tiffany's dad in his struggles. The Sumners, in their extreme generosity,
knew that Tiffany needed a car, so they sold her
their extra vehicle. Not only did they give her a
sweet deal, but they also let her make payments on

(32:17):
the car with no interest. During their conversations, the Sumners
made the ultimate mistake of discussing their finances with the
girl they thought they could trust, the one that was
doing drugs. Tiffany returned to her South Carolina home after
her father died months later, but she remembered that the

(32:39):
Sumners extended an open invitation to their home anytime she'd
liked to come and stay. She took them up on
this directly after making the wrongest of wrong turns in
her entire life hooking up with Michael Jackson at Myrtle Beach.
And while hooking up with Michael Jackson was always a

(33:01):
bad idea, this is not the same Michael Jackson you're
thinking of. Apparently it's a pretty common name. This one
didn't have a glittery glove and a couple of weird
dance moves, and also an affinity for children. This one
was a little different, starting with the fact that he
was white, and this particular Michael Jackson was even shadier

(33:26):
than the one you already know in love because when
he robbed her, he stole her heart.

Speaker 15 (33:34):
The girl was feeling me, but I wasn't feeling her.

Speaker 17 (33:35):
It wasn't like that.

Speaker 15 (33:36):
I don't want to I don't want to be in
the same room.

Speaker 17 (33:39):
How long you've been hanging out with her?

Speaker 15 (33:41):
Man? I met Deggar, I met this girl man South Carolina.
I met this girl. Man.

Speaker 17 (33:46):
I robbed the girl.

Speaker 9 (33:47):
Man.

Speaker 15 (33:47):
That's how I met him.

Speaker 11 (33:48):
Man.

Speaker 15 (33:48):
I didn't even rob her.

Speaker 17 (33:49):
Man, it was just like, yeah, rob but he wasn't
like robbing.

Speaker 15 (33:53):
And you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 16 (33:54):
She had a little black box, had cogaon and weed
and it and a munch of money in it, you know.

Speaker 15 (34:00):
What I'm saying that.

Speaker 17 (34:01):
But I was into the room.

Speaker 16 (34:02):
She didn't, you know, let me in the rooms, and
technically I stole it, but I mean, you know, whatever
is whatever, and I mean, you're not gonna call it
this minute. Stole my dope, you know what I'm saying,
You ain't gonna call and saying ship like that.

Speaker 15 (34:12):
I gave it, Coche gave it weight kept it was
like eight hundred and I kept eight honey.

Speaker 16 (34:16):
But I messed up because she had my cell phone
him because me and her chill earlier that day.

Speaker 15 (34:20):
And then she called me like that, like bringing my
box back, and I'm just cligged.

Speaker 16 (34:25):
I ain't talking to that girl even answering the phone,
texting me, I'm gonna do this.

Speaker 15 (34:29):
I'm gonna do this. I'm just you don't even know me.
You know. When was that though?

Speaker 17 (34:32):
I mean, how long have you known Tiffany since? Man,
since May?

Speaker 16 (34:36):
And that, like I said, that ship started in a weed.
Later she calls me, a, I just want to talk
to you.

Speaker 15 (34:41):
I talked to her, and then Tiffany's wself. It was, yeah,
I had coging it. She she thought she was a
little drug dealer.

Speaker 14 (34:49):
Man.

Speaker 17 (34:50):
She had a little bit of tiff Yeah.

Speaker 16 (34:52):
It was like half hours of cold, some hydro weed
and the cash I gave.

Speaker 15 (34:56):
Like I said, you can check my record. I got
no drug problem, drug regular n I was never in
the drug. Everybody keep asking me May how much I
don't crack or something.

Speaker 16 (35:04):
Man, I ain't never been in the drug man. But nah,
I gave it due and kept the money and that
was it. And then, like I said, a week later.

Speaker 15 (35:10):
Man, she I know that's just crazy. It's just I mean,
it's ironic.

Speaker 16 (35:14):
It's help with And then, like I said, man, when
the whole thing started this man, Like I said, Man,
Tiffany knew these people, man, she knew they had money.

Speaker 3 (35:24):
True, Tiffany was making poor choices even before Michael Jackson
came along, but her infatuation with this stereotypical bad boy
intensified matters. Things escalated fast. Whether she really wanted to
take the money or was just trying to impress Michael,

(35:46):
the result was the same.

Speaker 18 (35:48):
How do you get from that to let's go get
the money?

Speaker 16 (35:52):
Because when somebody comes up to me and says, look,
there's a one hundred thousand dollars at stake, you know
what I'm saying.

Speaker 15 (35:58):
It's a one hundred thousand dollars supposedly sold.

Speaker 16 (36:01):
The townhouse for like ninety some thousand, and you know this,
this and this, and I'm just sitting there listening to
this shit, and it's first in my mind it's like, yeah, whatever.
But then again, at the same time, you ain't just
gonna steal somebody credit card and jack no ninety thousand dollars, you.

Speaker 15 (36:16):
Know what I'm saying. But I motherfucker picking up a
phone and say, hey, uh are you are you mean?
Credit card company gonna call and say are you meaning
to take this money off?

Speaker 11 (36:23):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 17 (36:23):
That's common sense.

Speaker 16 (36:25):
So it's like, no, no, no, no, I can I
can do this perfect? You know what I'm saying, they
know me, they trust me, this, this and this.

Speaker 17 (36:33):
Hey, look, I'll do the credit card.

Speaker 15 (36:35):
Y'all get the card. I'm down whatever.

Speaker 16 (36:37):
You know what I'm saying. I'll do the rest. I
got my computer. I'll do the rest. Y'all get the card,
don't matter.

Speaker 17 (36:42):
I'll go to the ATM. I'll show my face.

Speaker 15 (36:44):
I mean, come on, that's bold. You know what I'm saying.
That's fucking bold.

Speaker 17 (36:47):
I'm you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 15 (36:49):
So it's like, y'all do whatever. I'll do the rest.
I mean, man, that's another thing. I'm murdered.

Speaker 12 (36:53):
I'm not gonna show my face at something different.

Speaker 17 (36:57):
Don't you already know they're dead?

Speaker 15 (37:00):
Yes?

Speaker 18 (37:01):
Okay, but feeling hear to the ATM, Yes, okay, you
already know they're dead ATM with them alive.

Speaker 3 (37:09):
By the time Michael and Tiffany put the Sumner's money
into their own hands, the couple was indeed dead, but
Michael and Tiffany weren't the only ones who benefited. Two
other players were in the mix, Bruce Nixon and Alan Wade.
Alan Wade was eighteen years old and living with his mom,

(37:33):
who was doing the best she could to keep him
out of trouble. Here, she talks about a call she
received from middle school when he was just a pre teen.

Speaker 7 (37:42):
He never got over me leaving his dad. He never
got over his dad leaving him.

Speaker 13 (37:49):
He had missed so much school, even though I was
dropping him off in the morning, that I either had
to withdraw him from school or I was going to
end up in jail.

Speaker 7 (38:02):
That's what they told me, so I withdrew him from school.

Speaker 5 (38:06):
In the eighth grade.

Speaker 3 (38:08):
A separate phone call resulted in even more dire consequences.

Speaker 13 (38:12):
They said he had said he was going to commit suicide.
I drove out there immediately, and I talked to one
of the councilors, a teacher or somebody, and the police
were there. They were chasing him through the neighborhood because
he had left the school grounds, and when they finally
found him, the Baker Acted him.

Speaker 3 (38:34):
The Baker Act is a law that allows parents or
authorities to place children in psychiatric facilities if they present
harm to themselves or others. Coming from South Florida, I
know all about the Baker Act.

Speaker 14 (38:48):
I know he.

Speaker 7 (38:49):
Thinks I didn't love him. I tried.

Speaker 14 (38:52):
I mean, I love him. He doesn't understand that I
depended on him to be the strong and that was
wrong of me. I threatened to kick him out, never
dreaming that he would go.

Speaker 13 (39:08):
I was thinking, Okay, I threatened to kick him out,
He's gonna say, I'm sorry, Mommy, I'm sorry. I'll behave,
I'll behave. I did not want him to leave, but
he did.

Speaker 3 (39:20):
Alan's dad wasn't in the picture. And now his mom
had cancer because she had to have chemotherapy and radiation.
And my heart goes out to all of you who
are listening right now and have cancer. Some of you
are in the audience right now listening to this. Carol,
I'm thinking about you. The other Carol shout out, stay

(39:43):
healthy anyway. Yeah, cancer is a bitch. But because she
had to go through all this shit, the chemo therapy,
the radiation, the just endless hospital visits, Alan left and
was taken in by a friend of his mother until
she was able to be stronger and take care of him.

(40:03):
He was only fifteen at the time. Unfortunately, this woman
who took care of Allan when he was fifteen, she
wasn't financially capable of taking care of him, so she
asked for compensation embarrassed. Alan's mom didn't want to pay

(40:24):
for someone to take care of her son. According to her,
she took him back because she didn't know what else
to do. He was her baby. A year later, he
met twenty three year old jobless Michael Jackson and started
constantly hanging out with him, eventually moving into an apartment

(40:44):
with Michael.

Speaker 13 (40:45):
Michael seemed to be an intelligent kind of guy. Friendly
when I first met him, just talkative and just kind
of on the showy side, you know, like he had
a big personality.

Speaker 7 (41:00):
He was very.

Speaker 13 (41:00):
Confident, and I thought, well, you know, he's a little cocky,
but you know, he's a boy. It was in the
parking lot. This is after I had learned about Michael's
real personality. I was driving through the parking lot coming
home and I saw him sitting there on the back
of a car, and I said, Michael, do you know

(41:21):
where Alan's at? And he proceeded to tell me that
that was none of my business. He was taking care
of Allan and I just leave Alan alone. He's my
concern now. And I said, is that a stolen car
you're sitting on? And he got right up in my
face in the window and threatened me that you just

(41:42):
stay out of my business and just go on if
you don't want anything.

Speaker 7 (41:47):
To happen to Alan.

Speaker 3 (41:49):
Alan's mom knew immediately that Michael was bad news. Moms
know these sort of things instinctually, so she started apartment
hunting for her and Alan and managed to find a
two bedroom places that she could barely afford. When they
moved in, she begged Allan not to tell Michael where

(42:11):
they were living.

Speaker 7 (42:12):
And I had told him. I said, I don't want
Michael to know where I'm at because I.

Speaker 13 (42:17):
Was afraid of Michael because of he threatened me, and
I was afraid if I got in the middle of
something he would harm Alan. And Michael came to my
apartment and I just exploded on him. I just went
off on this boy. And he sat there and looked

(42:39):
me stone faced in the eye the whole time I
was yelling at him.

Speaker 7 (42:43):
With a stupid smirk on his face. He had no
regard for my feelings, for Alan's feelings, for anybody. And
he finally, just when I finally stopped, he got up
and just sid care what you think, and he walked away.

Speaker 3 (43:03):
There was one more character in this gang of robbers,
it was eighteen year old Bruce Dixon. Bruce was a
follower an NPC if you will, someone with his own
set of troubles and empty family life. Bruce and Alan
were longtime friends, and in fact, he would later state

(43:26):
that he viewed Alan's mom as his own. But Bruce
was about to be a young dad and was stressed
over not being able to provide a life for his
child until he was introduced to Michael Jackson and Tiffany.
Michael and Tiffany were in Jacksonville partying together when the

(43:46):
group met each other. Tiffany would be heading back to
South Carolina, but the couple wanted one more night in Florida.
The four came up with a plan to rob the Sumners,
and it would start with Tiffany and my Michaels spending
a night or two with them. She still needed to
sign papers for the car title and this would be

(44:07):
a way to introduce them to her boyfriend and of course,
get a first hand view of the home the one
they intended to rob. On the evening of July eighth,
Michael Jackson convinced Bruce, who just turned eighteen, to canvass
the Sumner neighborhood for four shovels, one for each of

(44:30):
the robbers. They all took part in digging a four
by six foot hole in the woods nearby, and then
returned to the Sumner home to collect Their accounts differed
from one another in an effort to save their own lives,
but the bare truth was that the Sumners were thrown

(44:52):
into that hole one by one. The teens and young
adults were interviewed, but not one confessed.

Speaker 15 (45:01):
I'm going off with what I was went good that
you didn't have anything to do with the.

Speaker 17 (45:08):
With anybody getting hold Is that right?

Speaker 7 (45:10):
I wanted to wait through everything that was going on.

Speaker 15 (45:13):
Don't know what happened?

Speaker 10 (45:15):
What do you let at the house?

Speaker 17 (45:17):
I know you're at the house.

Speaker 12 (45:18):
What happened when you left the house?

Speaker 17 (45:21):
Well let the house?

Speaker 9 (45:22):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (45:23):
You said you were in the car waiting and they
called you to come around.

Speaker 8 (45:28):
That's when I followed them out to the spot where
and wanted out the woods and.

Speaker 5 (45:35):
I wanted to Bruce and Mike or or why you're
in a car. You were driving and you can pass
your teeth.

Speaker 8 (45:42):
So where's the where's the.

Speaker 15 (45:45):
Where's ready and kill?

Speaker 8 (45:46):
At that point, both of.

Speaker 17 (45:50):
Them in the trunk, you know, if they were alive
at that time, and it said when.

Speaker 19 (45:55):
No one else I thought, I bet the hose.

Speaker 5 (46:01):
How did Ready and Carol'll get in the car?

Speaker 7 (46:04):
In the car pick?

Speaker 3 (46:07):
Let's be very clear here, Carol and Reggie were alive
in the trunk of that car. Their mouths were duct taped,
and they were embracing each other, crying, wondering how a
girl they treated like their own daughter could have done
this to them. I want you to close your eyes

(46:28):
and picture yourself in that situation.

Speaker 18 (46:32):
What about when we let when he let the how
can we got Ellen and both of what part.

Speaker 17 (46:39):
Of the car.

Speaker 15 (46:43):
At any time?

Speaker 12 (46:45):
Were you in that car in the Lincoln?

Speaker 20 (46:49):
But Mike was in the cart, not a Lincoln, not
in a Lincoln.

Speaker 5 (46:56):
When they got rid of the botom, they ordered to
drop back out, but Mike would have been in the link.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
Yeah, it was down one be now you might get
back from where they were.

Speaker 17 (47:04):
They drove back out then the right, but did dry
might not.

Speaker 9 (47:11):
Walking out earth?

Speaker 7 (47:12):
And then they come out with the car You might
I guess kind of lead they would.

Speaker 15 (47:15):
Get a woods or whatever.

Speaker 7 (47:17):
I don't I don't exactly know how the.

Speaker 17 (47:19):
Act of the Mike came walking out, and then they came.

Speaker 12 (47:22):
Out with the car.

Speaker 11 (47:24):
At any point did they talk about hunting Reggie or
Carol and fronting.

Speaker 17 (47:31):
They didn't say nothing like that.

Speaker 11 (47:32):
And gonn mean when did you first hear them talk
about duc pay?

Speaker 5 (47:41):
Nothing. They were in the out talking about what they
were getting out the fund. Nobody.

Speaker 17 (47:45):
I went out when I heard over the radio today
they hit the button.

Speaker 7 (47:49):
And they were saying coming like where did the duct
paper or something like.

Speaker 5 (47:52):
That, you know thing that I guess them keep them
together or whatever. When you left.

Speaker 17 (47:58):
That's how And Mike was with you, and.

Speaker 3 (48:03):
They alan Scott Bruce baster seat and there a new Lincoln.

Speaker 1 (48:10):
You fall on them.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
M okay, you got talking on the front and back
and forth at that point, well, Michael.

Speaker 8 (48:17):
One, Mike was talking down.

Speaker 17 (48:19):
I mean I would be done, you know, things building
just kind of like.

Speaker 8 (48:24):
You in my old little world behind them, you know anything,
what are.

Speaker 17 (48:26):
You thinking at this point?

Speaker 11 (48:28):
Well then you get all this stuff and you got
thunders in the trunk of the car in front of you.

Speaker 3 (48:33):
I thought, I mean, I don't even never not breaking out,
and I was kind of freaking out, and you.

Speaker 10 (48:38):
Know, and not trying to be.

Speaker 5 (48:41):
Totally obvious about it, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 17 (48:43):
But at the same time, one, you know.

Speaker 9 (48:44):
This was not not kept an idea.

Speaker 5 (48:47):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 9 (48:47):
This is nony.

Speaker 4 (48:48):
You got talked about robbery though, I mean, you're.

Speaker 10 (48:50):
Gonna go get the stuff, but you didn't and you
count on the the end result there is that pretty.

Speaker 15 (48:57):
Much I'm not I don't want word your mouth, opay,
and I mean pretty much you were going to go
get your job. That one did.

Speaker 5 (49:05):
We're supposed to end.

Speaker 13 (49:08):
That was.

Speaker 3 (49:09):
But then Tiffany was a liar and she knew exactly
how to manipulate others. The scheme began with the exploitation
of two elderly souls kind friends who had stood by
her father's side during his darkest hours. Despite dealing with

(49:30):
their own serious problems. They were happy to give a
helping hand simply because they were happy and wanted to
give back. Their altruism reached beyond their own relatives, extending
directly to Tiffany's father and Tiffany herself. Yet beneath the

(49:51):
pretense of Tiffany's gratitude lurked a treacherous plot that she
had masterfully orchestrated. She understood the horrible beginning and the
inevitable conclusion. Next, Michael was brought to the station after
waiting his turn in jail. Michael, the oldest may or,

(50:14):
may not have been the sharpest of the four, but
he sure thought he was. He thought he was so smart,
in fact, that he believed he'd be able to wiggle
out of previous incriminating statements and somehow bargain himself out
of life in prison.

Speaker 16 (50:31):
Played a simple bloode according, what do I gotta do?
What do I gotta say? I don't care what I
gotta write, say do point.

Speaker 15 (50:37):
This, this and this.

Speaker 16 (50:39):
My biggest thing, man is I'm trying to push this
thing a little bit faster. If I got to do this,
this and this, and I'm trying to go home, probably.

Speaker 5 (50:46):
Just start by telling the truth some sort of worse
about what happened in so.

Speaker 16 (50:51):
They ain't no way to like get lesser charged, you
know what I'm saying, Like because.

Speaker 5 (50:56):
I already know like Petty's after something.

Speaker 16 (50:58):
No, no, no, because I already knew y'all got all of
us on the same indictment that right there is pushing
for conspiracy.

Speaker 5 (51:03):
Saying tell me tell me something about Alan Bridge or
Timpany that you think we don't know, said, I don't know.

Speaker 17 (51:10):
What's I don't know?

Speaker 5 (51:12):
Started the beginning there, murder.

Speaker 17 (51:15):
Old on, robery, kidnapping.

Speaker 5 (51:17):
My biggest thing.

Speaker 15 (51:18):
How do y'all charge meat?

Speaker 18 (51:19):
The sounds really good and all, except for I think
you told us something about uh, you tell something about
the graves, graves or the whole?

Speaker 5 (51:33):
Yeah, you no problem with that?

Speaker 15 (51:39):
Well, what about the whole?

Speaker 18 (51:41):
He told us they were pre dug. You told us
that where they put the whole was pre dug. You
told us it was to scare them. And then you
told us she held the flashlight while they shot a
nerd onto. Oh, I don't even want of that night
that night. You hope you hope that would be enough
to get you out of there that night because you
didn't have involvement in your mind and dealing with that

(52:02):
any of those okay, but they ain't know damn White.
You got dropped off somewhere else and you were you
were not even there. You were smoking with somebody else
while everybody else just disappeared, took care of all this
stuff that you had no idea.

Speaker 17 (52:15):
Everybody disappeared.

Speaker 15 (52:16):
Tiffany was there. Tiffany was there with me and Jacob.

Speaker 5 (52:19):
It was physically impossible. He always that hole. For two
people to dig that hole in that amount of time spanding,
it's nothing happened. Can you kind of had a back yeah,
because we had to have a back home to get
him out.

Speaker 16 (52:33):
You can't even say that because, I mean, I don't
know what the whole looked like. I didn't seen marines
man digging six by six man in twenty minutes.

Speaker 15 (52:42):
I mean just because mentally, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 18 (52:46):
Are you Tiffany Alan or Bruce Greens?

Speaker 15 (52:50):
Oh?

Speaker 18 (52:51):
Okay, yeah, probably no, probably digging in a little six
my six.

Speaker 16 (52:55):
You just killed two people in your't mind you digging
a whole ship man? You're gonna be like like if
people feel like he just did als of cole shit,
why would there before shovels?

Speaker 15 (53:07):
Like I said, run prince Man, run forensics, run everything. Man,
damn that.

Speaker 17 (53:12):
I ain't ary no people. I ain't touch no people.

Speaker 3 (53:15):
Michael was shameless, trying every angle he could think of
to escape or minimize charges. Next, he attempted the old
quid pro co. Remember that quid pro qo. We all
learned what that meant at the same time, I think
I give you something, you give me something back, you know. Politics.

(53:37):
He began telling the detectives that he knew the whereabouts
of another criminal they were after, and he would tell
them his secret. Oh I know where to do that.

Speaker 15 (53:49):
Right now.

Speaker 17 (53:50):
I don't know anything about the you know.

Speaker 16 (53:53):
I mean, if y'all can look it up, I mean,
it'll it'll come back accurate.

Speaker 15 (53:56):
He's been in the most wonderful a minute now.

Speaker 5 (53:59):
I mean I don't that.

Speaker 15 (54:00):
It's just I'm trying to figure out.

Speaker 16 (54:01):
Something anyway I get a bond, so okay, I can
tell you right now.

Speaker 15 (54:07):
I ain't trying to go no way.

Speaker 18 (54:08):
I mean, I'm won't be straight up with you, okay,
because we haven't. We've been pretty much straight up from
the good capt You ain't getting the bond, okay.

Speaker 17 (54:15):
It ain't gonna happen. Get a bond okay because this
is a capital murder okay.

Speaker 18 (54:20):
Uh and the capital murder offense has a no bond
in the state of Florida. You're not getting out, okay.
There's no opportunity whatsoever. I mean, you can tell me
right now where Haffa's buried. Who helps you know? Whoever,
shoot Kennedy. It's not gonna matter if you're not gonna
get out.

Speaker 17 (54:37):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (54:39):
Finally, after hours of arguing his case, Michael gave the
detectives some linear information, but he still blamed everyone but himself.

Speaker 15 (54:48):
So anyway, it's already been laid out.

Speaker 17 (54:51):
Tony gonna go in the house.

Speaker 15 (54:53):
She's gonna be like, look, I'm gonna go in there.

Speaker 16 (54:54):
I'm gonna get them all comfortable, relaxed. They're gonna, you know,
feel normal.

Speaker 15 (54:57):
I'm in here. It ain't gonna it ain't gonna be
no worries.

Speaker 16 (55:00):
They saying, you know, y'all gonna come up, Ben, Ben,
can I use a telephone call?

Speaker 15 (55:05):
To use the telephone and then let me get that?
You know what I'm saying next saying, I know, I'm
just you know what I'm saying in the house.

Speaker 17 (55:13):
What No, this was the plan.

Speaker 15 (55:14):
Now, this ain't what happened. This is the plan. Okay.
I'm just sitting there like, damn, that's that's so. You
know that sounds like the word.

Speaker 16 (55:22):
You know what I'm saying, And you're right, then my mind,
I'm sitting there thinking, nobody get paid off of this ship.
You know what I'm saying, these foods are gonna be
dumb asses, and I'm gonna get some money out of there.
You know what I'm saying, It might as well go
for it, you know, be a fool, not too I mean,
I'm damn it clean. I put my hands on nothing.
But then again, I'm sitting there thinking.

Speaker 15 (55:38):
I still don't know why I just walk up to
the ATM shefit. Oh yeah, I know you. Actually, I
don't get it for the money.

Speaker 16 (55:46):
Nah, but it's still at the same time, am I
gonna walk up face showing him? You know what I'm
saying that, I still run that in my head. That's
why I said, Man, it was like some of this
ship was retarded.

Speaker 5 (55:55):
Man, So you don't got a plan?

Speaker 15 (55:57):
So okay, yeah, okay, act on the plane.

Speaker 16 (56:00):
I'm gonna say that the night of the plant is
supposed to unfold. We go all the way to these
people's house.

Speaker 5 (56:05):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 17 (56:06):
We go to the house, all four of y'all in
the master.

Speaker 16 (56:07):
Yeah, all four of us in the Masna, drop me
off in the park. I don't want to be now
where near his house. I don't want to see shit.

Speaker 3 (56:14):
You just heard him say that the other three in
the group dropped him off at the park and he
wasn't anywhere near the house. He was claiming that he
was basically just given the ATM card after the summoners
were robbed and killed for some reason. Yeah, that really
makes sense. Sure does anybody buy this shit?

Speaker 17 (56:34):
Let me explain something to you.

Speaker 18 (56:35):
Okay, by law in Florida. If and this is really
far fetched. If because we've talked in pretty good detail
about what happened and everything else in the past. Okay,
if nothing else happened other than what you told us.
That you were there, and you said Alan and Bruce
did all this stuff.

Speaker 17 (56:56):
But you were there and he had knowledge of it,
you can be charged with everything.

Speaker 15 (56:59):
You're just as skilty as they. And what if I
wasn't there them? What if I just knew about it,
That's the thing.

Speaker 16 (57:04):
What if I actually was not there, I just kind
of knew about it when I was saying that I was.

Speaker 15 (57:08):
Then I'm telling you this, this and that, so you
know what I'm saying. I'm hoping I can go home
right there.

Speaker 18 (57:14):
That sounds really good and all, except for I think
you told us something about uh, tell something about the graves.

Speaker 5 (57:23):
Graves or though the whole.

Speaker 18 (57:28):
Yeah, you're a.

Speaker 5 (57:32):
Problem with that.

Speaker 15 (57:34):
Whoa you what about the whole?

Speaker 18 (57:36):
He told us they were pre dug. You told us
that where they put that the whole was pre dug.
You told us it was to scare them. And then
you told us she held the flashlight while they're onto. Oh,
I don't even want that night that night, you hope
you hoped that would be enough to get you out
of there that night because you didn't have direct involvement

(57:56):
in your mind and dealing with any of this. Okay,
damn White, you got to drop it off somewhere else,
and you were you were not even there, and you
were smoking with somebody else while everybody else just disappeared,
took care of all this stuff that you had no eye.

Speaker 17 (58:10):
Everybody disappeared.

Speaker 15 (58:11):
Tiffany was there. Tiffany was there with me and Jacob.

Speaker 5 (58:14):
It was physically impossible he was that hole.

Speaker 15 (58:17):
For two people to dig that hole in that amount
of time span, It's nothing that happened.

Speaker 3 (58:23):
During the interview with Michael, he had already said some
things that placed him at the hole, for instance, saying
that Carol and Reggie managed to get the duct tape
off their mouths and hands while they were in the trunk,
Like admitting that he heard them praying together and confessing
their love to each other, and like coldly telling how

(58:45):
Carol was moaning when they put her in the hole.
He was moaning because she and Reggie were buried alive.
They died by inhaling the dirt from their early grave.

(59:26):
After thirty eight years, the Sumners rekindled their high school romance.
Carol had already suffered in an abusive marriage that ended
in her husband shooting her in the face and then
killing himself, and currently Carol and Reggie both had significant
health issues that they were struggling with, yet they were

(59:47):
living their dream a life together in sunny Florida. When
their good friend fell ill, they nursed him in his
dying days and rewarded his daughter for her help with
their altruism and ultimately their lives. On July eighth, two

(01:00:08):
thousand and five, Tiffany and three male acquaintances robbed the
Sumners when two of them entered the home and found
them with tape while they pointed a realistic looking toy
gun at them. Carol and Reggie both pleaded, saying they
would give the intruders all the money they had. Michael

(01:00:28):
and Tiffany waited in a car outside because Michael had
given the order that he didn't want the Sumners to
see his or Tiffany's face. According to Michael, he was
going to inject them with a lethal dose of medicine
and wait until they died to bury them. But that

(01:00:49):
is not what happened. The couple was alive when the
dirt was piled on top of them. Think for just
a second of the horror of that, the sounds you
would hear, and then silence and darkness. By the time

(01:01:13):
Michael's last interview occurred, it was too late for him.
Tiffany and Allen weren't saying where the bodies were, but
Bruce Nixon was. Bruce was terrified.

Speaker 17 (01:01:24):
Just tell us where they're at.

Speaker 12 (01:01:25):
Okay, let's just tell us where they're at.

Speaker 5 (01:01:27):
If you want to start look at that. I tell
this mode you will tell you right now.

Speaker 10 (01:01:31):
I can't.

Speaker 12 (01:01:31):
You're you're old enough to make that decision for yourself. Bruce,
I know I can't. I can't do that for you, man.
I'm telling you it's it's it's I'm not allowed to
make that decision for you.

Speaker 17 (01:01:42):
Okay.

Speaker 12 (01:01:44):
Now you want me to be straight up, that's straight up.
I got to be straight up with you too. We
need to know where those bodies are. If you don't
want to tell us anything else, tell us where those
bodies are.

Speaker 5 (01:01:59):
I wouldn't tell you.

Speaker 12 (01:02:00):
Oh I'm just Bruce.

Speaker 17 (01:02:02):
Yeah, look at me.

Speaker 12 (01:02:02):
I wanna tell us, Bruce, I'm I'm looking at this
when I walk in here, I saw this. It's killing you, man, I.

Speaker 5 (01:02:11):
Know it is. If you don't I care where the president.

Speaker 12 (01:02:15):
If you don't wanna tell us anything else, just tell
us where these folks are at.

Speaker 17 (01:02:18):
Bruce, did I want straight to prison?

Speaker 5 (01:02:21):
Bruce?

Speaker 17 (01:02:21):
Just tell us where these folks are at.

Speaker 20 (01:02:23):
Birst I'm right what I tell you? Oh God, yeah,
your head comfort. I'm gonna give you every word about right.
Nobody see about baby or not. Well you it's good
about you.

Speaker 5 (01:02:33):
You well. We we can't change what's happening. I didn't care, Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
Now that's what we got honest.

Speaker 12 (01:02:42):
I said we we don't. That's why we makes weast
you be honest about their truth. I tell you our
pray truth. If you tell me lies, I can't prove lize.

Speaker 11 (01:02:50):
Your prother You be her brother that the whole time
I go good, I will your brothers.

Speaker 5 (01:02:56):
Go you right over the paper and tell me.

Speaker 12 (01:02:59):
I'll tell you right now to your face. I'm walking
through this whole thing, this whole thing. You'll be a
best stay if I tell you the truth that I'm
right here with you. Man, it breaks my heart to
be in here, that you're going through all this, But
I'll be right here. If nobody will be right here
with you, I'll be here. All right, Can you drive better?
Can you tell us? I know you kind of upset?

Speaker 17 (01:03:23):
All right, Okay, just get this here. I'll tell you.

Speaker 15 (01:03:36):
But this is what happened.

Speaker 17 (01:03:37):
Okay, all right.

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
Allan told me that we were gonna rob some people
and with some money and stuff.

Speaker 17 (01:03:46):
Didn't know these people, they all knew carrying the house
and stuff.

Speaker 11 (01:03:52):
Go ahead, I needed money to pay you out of family,
nobody and nobody. So afterbody we went to the house.

Speaker 5 (01:04:10):
We would do planning our.

Speaker 2 (01:04:11):
Growing up there, and we're gonna go to the house.
And I was gonna go to the house and we
were just gonna tell for the money and stuff and
get their eighteen cars and get old enough of this stuff.

Speaker 5 (01:04:31):
Tell him, what if you have to take up her mouth.

Speaker 17 (01:04:35):
And stuff, what's up?

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
We turned up their mouth and eyes, and they wouldn't
tell us we They wouldn't tell us all the bait
over nothing, but that dude, whatever his name.

Speaker 5 (01:04:52):
The bike or saltbody of his name, told.

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
Us to put him, take him up and put him
of the trunk of the wakeed.

Speaker 17 (01:05:02):
He never said we're gonna kill him, you know what
I'm saying.

Speaker 11 (01:05:05):
Probably you know, he sold bring up where it was
that they had a hold out of there.

Speaker 2 (01:05:15):
And then he said that he was just gonna scarel
and the telling him the bumpers.

Speaker 19 (01:05:21):
And then when you were doing it, I walked away
to the car, all right, state and I was walking
up there, and about third later they walked back and
asked the way one.

Speaker 5 (01:05:39):
They said they took care.

Speaker 17 (01:05:47):
Were we all that? Bruce?

Speaker 5 (01:05:52):
I'll be there the whole time.

Speaker 3 (01:05:54):
Those moments in the interview were particularly emotional, not just
because young Bruce Nixon was terrified and heading for a
death sentence or lifetime in prison, but because the detective
had a son the same age as Bruce. When he
saw the boy trembling and crying, he moved his chair
a little closer, threw his arms around him and held

(01:06:18):
him for what seemed like a very very long time.
During a two thousand and seven week long trial, Tiffany
Cole received a guilty verdict for first degree murder. The
jury's vote, nine to three recommended the death penalty after
seeing incriminating evidence, such as photographs capturing Tiffany and the

(01:06:39):
two co defendants reveling in a limousine, toasting with champagne
and clutching wads of cash the sum nurse cash. Five
months later, a judge issued dual death sentences for the murders,
accompanied by a life sentence for the kidnaps. Alan Wade

(01:07:02):
and Michael Jackson also received death sentences, but Bruce Nixon
because he cooperated with law enforcement, because he talked, and
he was guilty, and he had something to offer, he
got off with a little less. Put it that way,
Bruce had taken law enforcement to the locations where the
bodies were buried and testified against the others. He entered

(01:07:26):
a guilty plea for second degree murder, earning him a
forty five year prison sentence instead of life. But fate
would intervene ten years later.

Speaker 21 (01:07:39):
It was Tiffany Cole who was the familiar face that
Carol and Reggie Summoner invited into their home in July
two thousand and five. She and two other friends used
that friendship to plan their crime, asking for a place
to stay during a long trip. News for Jacks brought
updates to the community every step of the way.

Speaker 22 (01:07:57):
A neighbor tells family that she remembers seeing a strange
come and go from the Sumner's house, and family says
that they think that Carol and Reggie probably were just
being nice, allowing the group to stay overnight so they
didn't have to make the trip to and from Charleston
all in one day.

Speaker 21 (01:08:14):
The Sumner's' bodies were found days later in a shallow
grave in Charlton County, Georgia. They had been buried alive,
evidence technicians showing the shovels and crime scene photos at trial.
The three were convicted in separate trials. Tiffany Cole always
pleaded to have her life spared. At her sentencing hearing,
Cole begged for a life sentence so she could help others. Ultimately,

(01:08:36):
that hearing ended in tears for Cole. She was sentenced
to death in a nine to three decision. Something that's
now unconstitutional after a Supreme Court ruling last year that
found death penalty decisions need to be unanimous. Now, Cole
won't get a new sentencing hearing, and it's likely the
two others who were convicted in the murders of the
Sumners will also get new hearings because their death sentences

(01:08:59):
were also not unanimous.

Speaker 3 (01:09:02):
At the re sentencing, Alan Wade was given life due
to mitigating circumstances newly introduced, but Michael Jackson was again
sentenced to death with a unanimous vote. At the end

(01:09:42):
of the road, as we all, eventually we'll turn back
and look behind us, we'll be able to finally see
how some of the winding and narrow detours came back
together on a straight, wide highway to our destiny. We
can make sense of the map. Sometimes. Carol and Reggie

(01:10:07):
experienced some treacherous turns, but they found each other through
it all. They in a way, were both the luckiest
people on earth and the unluckiest. That's how life is,
That's how fate works in unpredictable ways. Yet the same

(01:10:29):
fate that reunited these lovers for a second chance also
brought with it tormented figures from their past, with their
own darkness and their own unresolved issues. Fate was about
to step in yet again and claim the lives of
the Killers as well, but yet another turn at the

(01:10:53):
last second occurred and their lives were spared. None of
it really makes any sense. Sometimes life doesn't make any sense.
Carol and Reggie may have met to dead end, so
to speak, but at least they were able to go

(01:11:15):
out knowing they tried to do some good in the world.
They tried, and life's ultimate surprise was allowing them one
final embrace with each other in their last moments on earth.

(01:11:51):
That does it for another one. Thank you so much
for joining us. If you like to show, Sword in
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