November 28, 2021 • 35 mins
Didn't get a chance to listen to this week's Sword and Scale? Don't worry, neither did Ian! In one of the first episodes we ever taped, Matt attempts to catch Ian up on the tragic story of Baby Maddox, and the McLovin look-alike who murdered her.
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(00:00):
Sort Scale. Rewind is an aftershow, which means it's meant to be
(00:02):
listening to after listening to Sword andScale for your convenience. Each episode number
of rewind corresponds to its counterpart onSword and Scale. It's not that hard.
People. Welcome to Sword and Scalerewind with your hosts Matt Fondelier and
Ian Bag. Hey, what's up, everybody? Welcome back to Sword and
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Scale Rewind. I'm one of yourhosts, Matt Fondelier, and I am
joined once again by comedian and hostof the fifth most popular hockey podcast and
all of us, Raila, IanBag. Welcome back. Hello, Matthew,
Let's talk murder. Let's talk murder. This is episode one hundred and
sixty two, And if you've neverlistened to this episode, you're not alone.
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I have never heard this episode,and I'm very excited. Also,
I know is there's murder and there'sbeen a podcast about it that's correct,
and we are gonna rate it andreview it and love it and all of
the above. Yeah. Um,now, this is another Dead Baby episode.
What I know. Ian, You'vejust getting into this world of true
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crime, and so far, everyepisode you've listened to involved the dead another
dead baby. I've tried to explainto you off microphone that there are other
episodes that don't involve dead. Isn'tthere one word? Guy just gets busted
with pod. Yeah, it's oneof the early episodes. Mike hadn't developed
it yet. Pot crimes. Thissky head put in his pocket will He
tried to go through the security atthe airport. Yes, mistakes were made,
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everybody's a sorry, and everything wentwell. Episode four. That's right,
it's a classical one. One ofmy all time favorites. This is
a very interesting episode because it's verysad, but at the center of it
is such a bizarre character who's kindof like the last episode we covered,
he's kind of an asshole, andthat makes elements of this story worth talking
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about. So it's not just goingto be an hour long compression. Yeah,
let me try to dive into whatyou miss And again, if if
this is your first time listening tothe show, you're welcome. I'm just
explaining it for you. So,at the center of the story, we
have a husband and wife, RyanLawrence and his wife Morgan Lawrence, and
they met while working at a tstore in a shopping mall. I already
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want to kill somebody. Yeah,it's called the Destiny USA shopping Mall and
it's in sort of like Central NewYork, New York state that is now.
They were married pretty quickly after that, and then they had a baby
girl who is known as Baby Maddoxand a D D o x um.
(03:07):
But before the baby's first birthday,they discovered that one of her brown eyes
was turning darker. And what itended up meaning is that she had something
called rhett no blastoma, which isa type of eye cancer. Again,
hilarious stuff right right from fun funtimes. So this baby is going to
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need chemotherapy, radiation, possible removalof the eye, of course, and
they're working at the tea store.I'll just take it over from here.
They're working at the tea store.They don't have that kind of money,
so they just sell her to thisweird cult and they kill her. Yeah,
So what happens, Well, Ryanthe dad, in addition to working
at the tea store, he alsodelivers pastries. He works at a gas
(03:53):
station. But now they're just arethese insane medical bills. Yeah, and
there's a special cancer center that's inNew York City and it's just a multi
hour commute. They're growing back AndI guess which they're going to? Which
cancer Sloan kettering. I think that'sactually right. Yeah, okay, I
(04:14):
used to do shows there, ohthe cancer center. Yeah, I used
to. It's funny. It's howI learned to not be afraid of people.
It's I had all these people thatwere dying of cancer, and they
had they had the medication with them, they'd hit the morphine, you know,
because it became the pain became great. Wow. And I noticed that
if you didn't face on treat themlike humans, they were bored of you.
(04:39):
They wanted to be treated like ahuman. And I'm like, if
these people want to be treated likea human, this is how I'm always
going to treat my my crowds.So we don't we don't we don't go
away from things? Yeah, goright at things. So you just started
roasting them? Yeah? Absolutely,Yeah, I'm like, ever go waterskin?
Yeah? I remember that wasn't onepart. I remember the guys got
the big thing? O you evergo water sking? Or is that thing
getting away? Like? I feellike people love that though they need to.
(05:01):
They want to feel like a normalperson. You want to be.
You want to be recognized, Youdon't want to be just a shadow.
Yeah, you know, and peoplecan be ignored because it is too hard
for the person to deal with what'sgoing on with somebody else, which is
crazy because the person's going on withit. So they need you to be
the pillar. Yeah, exactly,Well that's got off. We're can look
(05:25):
out a little off course there,but now and that's it's all part of
this conversation though, because at thebeginning of this episode, I think the
idea is to try to put youin the mind of this guy Ryan Lawrence
to some deliveries. I got towork at a gas station. I'm at
a T sor oh my god,that's right now. During this time,
he also has his license suspended,so another delivering thousand dollars fee. Yeah,
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no longer going to be able todeliver. It really sounds to me
like he's the cooler like William H. Macy in that movie, Like just
just everything is just stacking up againstthis guy. It's funny because when you
said that, I'm just like,there's people that have that happened to them.
Yeah, and they just can't getout from underneath the rock doesn't matter
how hard they try. Right,So, right now, I don't feel
(06:10):
like he's an asshole. I justfeel like he is stuck. Yeah,
well prepared to have your opinion ofthe man changed. Okay, we got
some good news and some bad news. Here's the good news to tell you
if he murders him, I wasdefinitely gonna Yeah. Good news is that
baby Maddox is responding to Oh good. The cancer care is probably still going
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to have a long road ahead ofher, but it kind of seemed like
she's gonna be out to go,Maddie. But the bad news is that
the family dog has gotten sick andhe can't afford the vet for the euthanasia.
So he does what I found tobe kind of despicable. Takes his
dog out on a nature walk andthen he strangles his dog. If you
(06:54):
strangle something anything, you are apsychopath. Yes, So using your hands
to kill something like, even thoughyou want to put it out of its
misery, Like, there's got tobe a different way other than strangling something.
That's exactly what I would think worsewalk Ever, totally now, it's
not really clear if he ever sharesthat information with you know, his wife.
(07:18):
You know, he may have justsaid that the dog ran away.
I don't really know. I don'tknow, but the dog's name was Trooper,
so definitely definitely a Maltese exactly.Um, so I should also say
it's about to get a lot worse. Okay, great, yep, And
Ryan Lawrence looks like mclovin from theSuper Bad. So for people listening,
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if you google Ryan Lawrence trial,you can see this guy and he just
looks like an angry mclovin. He'sgot a super high pitched voice. And
I'm gonna play a clip for youtowards the end of this episode, kill
that dog it. Honestly, hedoes not sound too far off from that.
I was trying. I realised,Hey, you want to some tea?
(08:07):
I have time. I gotta dosome deliver make sure I get to
the gas station. You know,you said you didn't listen to this episode,
and and now I'm starting to thinkyou live. I didn't. Is
that a great impression. Yeah,I'm so talented. So by all appearances,
we know about the dog thing,but most people don't, and they
just assume that he's just a loving, doting father. He takes the baby
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with him when he does the pastrydeliveries. And where the action of this
episode starts is his wife is startinga new job at the mall. And
the idea is that picture yeah,sorry, there's coffee. Bean has moved
in. Tea store is a thingof the past. Coffee is a new
rage. So the plan is they'regonna drop Morgan off at work. He's
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gonna take the baby with him forthe day, and then at the end
of the shift they come pick herup. But he's got no license,
right and this time he does nothave a license. So this is where
it takes in gonna take a turn. So Morgan, the wife, she
goes to work and she's expecting themto be there for her when her shift
is over, but instead, what'sthat She's had a tough one. She's
(09:11):
been working at the kiosk. Yeah, exactly, Coffee stains all over the
places that job. Instead, Ryanand the baby did not return. She
got a series of texts saying thatthe cars in the parking lot. The
keys are inside the car. Healso apparently sent her an eight minute video
saying I can't do this anymore.I want you to have the life that
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you deserve. I'm taking the babywith me. That video was never released
to the public, so it's notclear exactly what he said, but all
those texts about the keys being inthe car all verifiable. Most of the
story in this episode is being toldby the grandpa, who is his daughter,
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is the wife, And so I'mgoing to play a clip just because
he's This audio is from his impactstatement in court where he's talking about kind
of how his life has changed sinceall these events have happened. So he's
kind of speaking from the point ofview of somebody who's already experienced the tragedy
that's going to unfold. But Ijust want to play this clip because he
(10:18):
is an incredibly emotional storyteller and thismoment, this is about a minute long
of him just talking about the fearthat the family was feeling when they just
had a series of texts in acar in the parking lot. I don't
know what's going on. Our Nightmarehit series, we sat together waiting and
(10:39):
wondering where Max was, how Urningcould do this power. After hour,
we just waited, continually answering questionsfrom police while Morgan replayed the events of
the night to each new officer shehad waiting with Morgan and seeing her grief
was god runching. The thoughts thatran through my mind stifling. So my
(11:03):
Defensio's granddaughter is twenty one month oldbaby who was now in an unfamiliar place.
I had questions, was she withstrangers, how was it being treated,
was she seeing? How scared wasshe? And then I just wanted
her back in my arms. Iwanted her regrated with her mother. I
(11:26):
wanted her to feel safe and lovedagain. I wanted her home. I
was confused and scared that I mightnever see my granddaughter again. Reactions.
He sounds younger than I thought hewas going to sound. Yeah, Grandpa
is misleading. Yeah, I don'ttell you about a fam I want here
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to take the dog out for awalk. But he sounds younger. He
sounds terrified, you know, andall those questions that are going through his
head are fine. But you'd belike, be like I would be like,
what is he doing? Not whereshe had like why is he doing
this? That's that was a littlebit weird to me, because I'd have
(12:11):
why why is he doing this?It's you know, we got to get
the baby back. We'll take careof the baby. We're not worried about
my daughter having the you know,lengthen text messas the life she deserved.
Whatever, Well, we'll get herjob at Applebee. She'll meet a fine
young man there. Yeah. Right, so it's it's weird. It's weird
(12:31):
so far. But Dad, fromthe conversation, they don't sound like they
have money, do they. That'sa good point it I would imagine either.
I do know that they had todo like a go fund me at
some point to try to help raisesome funds for Okay, but even if
they have money, if you suddenlyare dealing with cancer patient, I feel
(12:52):
like that being accounts getting right,Yeah, the bank account, but they
would probably have medical if they hadmoney. Um, and just what the
daughter's doing and the what the otherthe murderer his jobs are? Do you
think I will say this about themurderer. He's not lazy. He's got
three jobs. Yeah, that's that'sthat's something. Yeah, if you,
(13:13):
if you had a daughter, you'dwant for your for the a guy that's
gonna put the effort out. Butthen maybe got over his skis a little
too far and lefty. I can'tI can't work but I don't know that
the story is maybe he was justa well, it's a little bit of
all the above. Um. Thegrandpa does state that before all these events
happened, there was a conversation thathe had in the car with Ryan sort
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of talking about this responsibility of havinga family, and the grandpa really misjudged
this guy because he really felt thatRyan was being honest about doing the right
thing and trying to like make agreat family. So a lot of what
he says later in the episode isabout just being deceived by this guy.
Um. So, after uh anamber alert is issued, they have the
(14:01):
mom go on to like a reallysad like if anyone has any information,
you know, right, because hedoesn't have a car, right right,
They just have no idea where heis or where anybody is. But then
sixty hours later there's a nine oneone call. Now his picture has been
posted all over the city. Everybody'slooking for him, and the person who
(14:22):
called nine one one said that someonematching his description has been seen. But
this guy was wearing a disguise,a wig, a baseball hat, sunglasses,
camo pants, plastic grocery bags overhis boots. People actually thought he
was homeless. He was carrying likea big comforter blanket and he smelled like
(14:45):
a campfire, so people just assumedthat he was a homeless guy. This
is to me one of the mostbizarre parts of this entire story. So
the police come to this guy andhe says that his name is our Low
Rivers. They ask him for hisbirthday. He gives his actual birthday,
(15:07):
so they look up Arlow Rivers findthat there's nobody with that ridiculous name,
first of all, and second ofall, nobody with that ridiculous name born
on September twelfth or whatever. ButRyan Lawrence was born on September twelfth,
and this is the guy that everybody'sbeen looking for. So, like a
scene straight out of a movie,they ask him to take his hat off,
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and then his wig falls off,and his exact words were, you
got me. My god, itall right. So that's just he had
got me, you got me?I would it leaves that all right?
No idea, I was wearing awig. Now you got me, you
got me. That's his exact quote. Oh Arlow, I want to know
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where he came up with that name. Also, in his possession camping gear
a handcuff key a book called onehundred Deadly Skills, which was written by
a retired Navy seal. But there'sstill no baby, and the reason he
smells like a fire, that's absolutelyright. Sadly, when he's questioned by
police, he tells them, actually, kind of what you predicted early on.
(16:17):
He says that he gave the babyto his friends, to Chris and
Taylor, and now everybody's out ofthe country safe, So you're a weird
cult theory. There's a thread there, But it turns out those are not
real, fake right, totally fake. The detectives were taking him to all
these different sites throughout the day wherehe had said he had been for the
last sixty hours, and sixty hoursis how many days, twenty four times
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two forty eight and a half days, two and a half days. Eventually,
the detectives kind of build a rapportwith him and they keep asking him
about Chris and Taylor, and hefinally comes clean and says that that's not
really a true story, and hetells the detectives, you're not going to
look at me the same way onceI tell you what I did with the
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body, And that, of courseis another dramatic cliffhanger in the episode.
Now we do get the reveal ofwhat happened, but we don't know why
it happened. So one of thereally sad parts here is that police divers
find the remains of baby Maddox tiedto a cinder block and left like in
(17:26):
the river. Now, there's aclip that I want to play. There's
this news reporter that's been covering thisbreaking story throughout the entire day, and
there's a moment, it's right atthe very beginning of this clip where I
just felt like the humanity of thisnews reporter really comes through in this.
The quote, the phrase is rightat the top where he just says,
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it's a rotten day. It's arotten day here in Syracuse, New York.
So I just want to hear thathe talks a little bit about kind
of how the community was really hopingthere would be a happy ending to the
story but didn't turn out that way, and what a rotten day here in
Syracuse. We have just learned fromSyracuse Police that a body that is believed
to be twenty one month old,the Maddox Lawrence, has been pulled from
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the Inner Harbor where we have beenreporting all morning long, where we have
been where members of the community haveturned out, some of them with their
children, concerned mothers, hoping againsthope that this would end a different way,
but it is just not. Solet's take you down to the Inner
Harbor, just along the creek walk, this place that brings so many people
in central New York Joy, oneof the absolute best places to walk your
(18:36):
dog or just take a walk witha friend and catch up. We'll now
be etched in people's minds as theplace where the body of this little girl
was found. Pretty pretty fucked out, to say the least. Now we
learn at this point that the lastquestion, oh, of course, So
do we hear him talking to thepolice? Now, okay, because I
(18:56):
want to I want to know ifyou could feel any guilt. You can't.
You can't get that audio. Um, it's really was just sort of
conversation between this detective and the killer. So the only way to really hear
that part of the story is tohear the detective tell it, because he
kind of talks about well, firsthe said this, and then the detective
(19:18):
thing he's got guilt or he's justlike, yeah, you got me Oh
my god, I feel bad becauseI shouldn't have done that, but I,
you know, really wanted to doit too. Despite the joke of
a line of you got me,it does sound like he has some legit
guilt and remorse for what he did. Okay, so this is different from
from most of these stories because mostof these people I don't have any guilt
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about this murder. That is.That is true and part of the big
kind of I don't know if it'sreally a twist in this episode, but
the final reveal we'll get into isreally the why, like why this all
happened. I thought it was veryinteresting. I'm pretty excited about it.
But before that, before that,there are actually two different rhyme scenes that
are being investigated. One is theriver walk where the baby was found.
(20:03):
Was a mother good looking, she'spretty cute, cool? Yeah, she
was pretty cute. Um, shedefinitely could have done better than a super
bad mcloup. Well what do youdescribe? I'm like, I wonder what
you look like? You know?Yeah, Well, here's the thing,
Like all the pictures of her orthe videos of her, is she's so
sad because her baby's gone and herwhole life has fallen apart sexually sad woman.
(20:25):
Yeah, so it's a little weirdto be like, oh yeah,
she was hot, but it's like, yeah, yeah, it's it is
pretty. It's pretty sad. ButI could see And if you guys are
saying at home, you guys arehaving way too much fun. We gotta
have fun. It's gotta be fun. Yeah, so stupid. Yeah,
yeah, I've said on this showmany times, this is a defense mechanism.
We're laughing about it because you don'twant to just hear us crying.
(20:47):
Yeah, that's not really a goodpart if you If you do, there's
the opposite of laughters crying. Sowe're gonna laugh. So there's two crime
scenes, like I mentioned, Oneis the River Bad and the other is
this place out in the woods wherehe had great crime scenes. Yes,
he had taken authorities there a littleearlier in the day and they found basically
the remnants of a camp fire,and as you alluded to earlier, they
(21:12):
did drop the hint of him smellinglike a camp fire when he got picked
up. But we've learned at thispoint that basically he took his baby out
to the woods. He struck herin the head with a wooden baseball bat
and then burned the baby, burnedthe bat, you know, dumping oil
on the fire, and just kindof let it burn out overnight. And
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then he scooped up the remains,put it into a container, tied it
to a cinder block, and thendrove twenty minutes north to where he threw
it in the waters. And thenhe took the car and dropped it off
at the mall. That's when hedropped it out of the mull. So
he did this all while she wasat work, that's right. And we
do also learn he does say thathe took the baby to that location the
(21:59):
day before, but he couldn't gothrough with it, which I thought was
good for him for now. Healso he's no quitters, that's true.
Man works three jobs for christing Umcertainly after this um. He also apparently
had spray paint that he was goingto use to change the color of his
skin. And he had this wholepook of that neon man that's not suspicious
(22:25):
at all. Let a safety cone. What a weird colored man. Yeah,
So his plan was that he wasgoing to make it look like he
and the baby had run away andthen he was going to commit suicide.
Now stay with me for a minutehere, because again this gets a little
(22:45):
a little weird, But this isjust how this guy's mind works. He
wanted to commit suicide somewhere along theOhio River, and he hoped that his
body would make its way to theCaribbean, which is where his mother's ashes
were dispersed. So where to gomake loving? Yeah. In court,
Ryan gives a huge apology to allthe family members, saying that he doesn't
(23:10):
expect forgiveness. You're goddamn right,you don't. It is a legitimate,
heartfelt, sad monologue, which reallydoes not happen a lot in these cases.
Like you pointed out, can Ican I and I push it out.
If you're gonna I'm gonna bring itup again. I've done. This
is my second show, and I'mwant to say it right now. If
you're gonna kill yourself, just killit. Please, just don't bring other
(23:32):
people and just do it. Iknow, and there's somebody who go out
there can complaint, but no,if you're planning on killing other people and
yourself, just do yourself. Yes, there we go. Well, here's
the thing were respect. He getssentenced to twenty five years to life,
which means that on his fiftieth birthday, which will be in two thousty one,
Jesus, he will appear before aparole board and he might be let
(23:56):
might be let back out. Nowwe mentioned earlier the wife in this story.
I want to play a clip ofher begging the court to not let
him out of prison. Okay,as there's all the rise actions I need
for him to spend for rest ofhis lifetime in prison. I fear for
(24:18):
my safety and fear for the stillgirl histec in the community. He's a
safe everyone flayed he's and he's beentrying all of us for his actions.
He's carried that unbelievable when he wantsnidulous situation in his favor before parole would
(24:38):
par five years from now, hemay see a remorseful he may vague to
be released to make av changeful.He's a monster. Should I truly don't
believe you don't kill a go gettinga chance. Don't give him a chance.
(24:59):
This He is the most horrible thingI've ever endured in my life.
I want you to know you willnot Da and my daughter in my whole
life. You told me therefore,you don't deserve another chance of your own.
So I got a couple of questions. Please she does Were they having
(25:26):
problems? Well, I was goingto move into a segment that I like
to call what's my trauma? AndI was going to give you three choices
and you can decide what you thinkwas the actual trauma. One of those
three was did he have some maritalproblems think that his wife was having an
affair and didn't know what to dowith it. Was he abused as a
(25:48):
child, unable to play his favoritesport of baseball? Or was he sad
that his mommy died? Oh?I would have If it's those three,
I'd say probably number one because ofhim wanting her to have the life that
she deserved. A great guess,but it's incorrect, son of a bitch.
(26:12):
This kid deserves to die. Thecorrect answer is that Ryan was sad
that his mommy died. So,but it doesn't make sense. It's a
douche move. I'm gonna I'm gonnago visit my mom, but I'm gonna
take my kid with me. Right, Oh, I decided I'm not going
just sending the kid. Well,here's where we get you're laughing because this
(26:32):
is crazy. It SIPs absolutely insane. This is truly the biggest batch crazy
part of the whole story. So, after he was arrested, similar to
another episode that we covered, areporter was granted the rights to a prison
interview, and it is creepy asfuck. Here we go. Now.
I mentioned not too long ago thatRyan wanted his own dead body to drift
(26:59):
to where his mother's ashes were scattered. Right well, because that's gonna happen.
Jesus Christ, you know anything abouttidal waves and tides. Come on,
man, I do want to thinkabout a beaver. Damn, you're
not gonna get You're gonna be stuck. You never think about the beavers.
You have everything all charted out,and then there's an unexpected damn just shows
(27:21):
up and ruins everything. So Ryantells this reporter that a week before he
kidnapped and murdered his baby, hestarted to hear the voice of his dead
mother in his head. I wastelling him that he should give baby Maddox
to her so that she could helpsolve his family's problems. Ryan, bring
(27:42):
me the baby so you can livelonger. Right now. Ironically, his
mother was a social worker who spentmost of her life helping victims of violent
crimes. And she did that becauseher brother was murdered back in the nineties.
Wow, So I don't really thinkthere's a vengeful mother ghost that's really
(28:03):
telling him to do this. Wealso learned that when when Ryan's parents got
divorced, he reacted to that lossby hurting himself. He's a cutter.
He's a cutter, and he'd youknow, burn his skin with metal and
other objects. When his mother died, he burned a heart onto his chest
(28:27):
with incense. And then on whatwould have been his mother's fifty ninth birthday,
that's when he kidnapped and murdered hisdaughter, who was like, yeah,
the daughter was named after his mother, which makes it even weirderdie pretty
crazy, right, And in prisonhe apparently burned his zodiac symbol into his
(28:51):
hand, and he burns his legwith heated broken bottles. I'm sure in
prison he should be just getting punchedin the face every day. Right.
They don't like baby killers in prison, They certainly don't. And I've teased
it now. I'm not going toplay you a clip. This is from
the prison interview You're going to hearRyan talking about why he did what he
did, and the reporter asks somepretty pointed questions as well, I'm not
(29:15):
this monster that people try to portrayme to be on the media. What
I did was horrible, What Idid was wrong, What I did was
unfair. What I did was illegal. Yeah, and evil. But it
wasn't me. It wasn't me.It wasn't it was this storm. It
(29:36):
was this madness that it was takingover. You couldn't just be evil that
come to you. I don't thinkso, because what I was trying to
do was not evil. I wasn'ttrying to hurt anybody. I was trying
to save Max. I was tryingto save my life. I was trying
to save my family from from hurtainstrong ever and the most selfish act I've
(30:02):
ever done. I thought irrationally thatit was going to be the most selfless
thing I would ever do. Andyou realize how crazy that sounds. I
mean, yes, yeah, itsounds crazy. Yeah, And it sounds
like he's just he's an idiot.And also he sounds like mcloven with a
higher word. Later, I waslike, he's got the same kind of
lisp going on. I'm telling you, dude, Oh man, that's crazy.
(30:26):
Um, I don't know, man, It's just he must be getting
beaten every day in prison, right, I mean I imagine that he is,
like you said, they don't likebaby killers in prison, and he's
just that voice that look. Imean, he really it's just not a
good situation for him, but hefucking deserves it. Absolutely, Yeah,
(30:47):
absolutely, I just don't it doesn't. I don't. Did you say he
was an asshole of a person toher? Would like to like, what's
their relationship bad? Or was heactually a loving guy? You know?
From all accounts, it would seemthat he was a loving guy. I'm
imagining that he definitely had to havehad some major issues kind of going into
(31:10):
all this, Like like we said, we learned when he was younger,
he had all this trauma from hisfamily splitting up, So he's probably not
a well balanced guy. I wouldhave liked to have heard from the wife
when she gave that speech, likeI loved you and you trade or you
you fooled me the whole time,you know, you'd like, I would
never suspected that you would do anythinglike this from the way you treated me,
(31:32):
or I would have. I should. It's my fault. Yeah,
But you know, there aren't likea lot of these stories you hear about
all of the domestic violence that ledup to this, like there's none of
that in this case. It reallythat's part of what makes this such a
strange episode or a strange case,is that it just seemed like he snapped,
like he suddenly was. It happens. It does. I don't want
(31:53):
to do, but it happens.It does. And you know the bottom
line is that Ryan had all ofthese resources to help him. You can
hear from like the grandpa stuff,like there was a close family unit,
and so the idea that Ryan decidedthat it would be up to him when
his daughter would die, instead ofshe's gonna have a tough life, but
(32:14):
she's gonna still have a life,right, And so not to end it
on such a depressing note, Ishould say that there's also a memorial bench
alongside the riverwalk where the baby wasfound, and you know, it was
a crime that impacted the entire community, and even years later, there's still
like an active Facebook group of peoplelike just from the community trying to show
(32:36):
support, and like every year theyyou know, pay tribute to this baby.
So there's a little bit of humanitythat comes out of it. But
what a piece of shit, Whata piece of I wish. Yeah,
it's weird how it can bring peopletogether. Yeah, I know. And
that poor girl, I don't knowhow she's how the mother's doing, you
(32:59):
know, why she moved on andhad kids with somebody else, or or
didn't ever want to have kids again, or didn't even became a lesbian.
You know who knows? You know. Um, it's just it's just I'm
glad they caught him because there wasa way he probably could have got away.
But it sounds like he's kind ofdumb. Yeah, I think so.
But Neon Spring ain't was really verya stand out for sure. I
(33:23):
just don't. I don't get thewhole I'm going to jump in the river
and I like, yeah, Idon't. Yeah, it's when it starts
to border on like crazy person.Yeah, and you're just you're just wondering,
well, was he crazy at anyof these jobs or is he just
another guy that just this kind ofwent out And it is sad, but
(33:44):
yeah, gives us something to talkabout. Therefore, thank you, Maddie.
Yes, I hope terrible. It'sterrible. It's absolutely terrible. But
oh you gotta laugh. That's right. I hope I was able to impart
the story well enough for you,you made and just he just yeah,
I paint pictures with my words.You did, and I just see that
neon man walking down the street andit was fan right. Well, thanks
(34:06):
everybody for listening. We'll be backwith another episode in due time. And
until next time, don't be adouchebag, don't be a douchebag, don't
murder people sort of scale. Rewadis a production of Incongruity Media. If
(34:29):
you enjoyed the show, leave usa five star rating at a glowing review.
No criticism please, it hurts ourfeelings. Be sure to tell your
friends about us, but not yourfamily or co workers because they'll think you're
weird. Okay, that's it.Until next time, don't be a douchebag.
(35:00):
The Departed to Bedpended, the Intendenden, the us
Sort Scale. Rewind is an aftershow, which means it's meant to be
(00:02):
listening to after listening to Sword andScale for your convenience. Each episode number
of rewind corresponds to its counterpart onSword and Scale. It's not that hard.
People. Welcome to Sword and Scalerewind with your hosts Matt Fondelier and
Ian Bag. Hey, what's up, everybody? Welcome back to Sword and
(00:50):
Scale Rewind. I'm one of yourhosts, Matt Fondelier, and I am
joined once again by comedian and hostof the fifth most popular hockey podcast and
all of us, Raila, IanBag. Welcome back. Hello, Matthew,
Let's talk murder. Let's talk murder. This is episode one hundred and
sixty two, And if you've neverlistened to this episode, you're not alone.
(01:11):
I have never heard this episode,and I'm very excited. Also,
I know is there's murder and there'sbeen a podcast about it that's correct,
and we are gonna rate it andreview it and love it and all of
the above. Yeah. Um,now, this is another Dead Baby episode.
What I know. Ian, You'vejust getting into this world of true
(01:33):
crime, and so far, everyepisode you've listened to involved the dead another
dead baby. I've tried to explainto you off microphone that there are other
episodes that don't involve dead. Isn'tthere one word? Guy just gets busted
with pod. Yeah, it's oneof the early episodes. Mike hadn't developed
it yet. Pot crimes. Thissky head put in his pocket will He
tried to go through the security atthe airport. Yes, mistakes were made,
(01:57):
everybody's a sorry, and everything wentwell. Episode four. That's right,
it's a classical one. One ofmy all time favorites. This is
a very interesting episode because it's verysad, but at the center of it
is such a bizarre character who's kindof like the last episode we covered,
he's kind of an asshole, andthat makes elements of this story worth talking
(02:23):
about. So it's not just goingto be an hour long compression. Yeah,
let me try to dive into whatyou miss And again, if if
this is your first time listening tothe show, you're welcome. I'm just
explaining it for you. So,at the center of the story, we
have a husband and wife, RyanLawrence and his wife Morgan Lawrence, and
they met while working at a tstore in a shopping mall. I already
(02:47):
want to kill somebody. Yeah,it's called the Destiny USA shopping Mall and
it's in sort of like Central NewYork, New York state that is now.
They were married pretty quickly after that, and then they had a baby
girl who is known as Baby Maddoxand a D D o x um.
(03:07):
But before the baby's first birthday,they discovered that one of her brown eyes
was turning darker. And what itended up meaning is that she had something
called rhett no blastoma, which isa type of eye cancer. Again,
hilarious stuff right right from fun funtimes. So this baby is going to
(03:30):
need chemotherapy, radiation, possible removalof the eye, of course, and
they're working at the tea store.I'll just take it over from here.
They're working at the tea store.They don't have that kind of money,
so they just sell her to thisweird cult and they kill her. Yeah,
So what happens, Well, Ryanthe dad, in addition to working
at the tea store, he alsodelivers pastries. He works at a gas
(03:53):
station. But now they're just arethese insane medical bills. Yeah, and
there's a special cancer center that's inNew York City and it's just a multi
hour commute. They're growing back AndI guess which they're going to? Which
cancer Sloan kettering. I think that'sactually right. Yeah, okay, I
(04:14):
used to do shows there, ohthe cancer center. Yeah, I used
to. It's funny. It's howI learned to not be afraid of people.
It's I had all these people thatwere dying of cancer, and they
had they had the medication with them, they'd hit the morphine, you know,
because it became the pain became great. Wow. And I noticed that
if you didn't face on treat themlike humans, they were bored of you.
(04:39):
They wanted to be treated like ahuman. And I'm like, if
these people want to be treated likea human, this is how I'm always
going to treat my my crowds.So we don't we don't we don't go
away from things? Yeah, goright at things. So you just started
roasting them? Yeah? Absolutely,Yeah, I'm like, ever go waterskin?
Yeah? I remember that wasn't onepart. I remember the guys got
the big thing? O you evergo water sking? Or is that thing
getting away? Like? I feellike people love that though they need to.
(05:01):
They want to feel like a normalperson. You want to be.
You want to be recognized, Youdon't want to be just a shadow.
Yeah, you know, and peoplecan be ignored because it is too hard
for the person to deal with what'sgoing on with somebody else, which is
crazy because the person's going on withit. So they need you to be
the pillar. Yeah, exactly,Well that's got off. We're can look
(05:25):
out a little off course there,but now and that's it's all part of
this conversation though, because at thebeginning of this episode, I think the
idea is to try to put youin the mind of this guy Ryan Lawrence
to some deliveries. I got towork at a gas station. I'm at
a T sor oh my god,that's right now. During this time,
he also has his license suspended,so another delivering thousand dollars fee. Yeah,
(05:48):
no longer going to be able todeliver. It really sounds to me
like he's the cooler like William H. Macy in that movie, Like just
just everything is just stacking up againstthis guy. It's funny because when you
said that, I'm just like,there's people that have that happened to them.
Yeah, and they just can't getout from underneath the rock doesn't matter
how hard they try. Right,So, right now, I don't feel
(06:10):
like he's an asshole. I justfeel like he is stuck. Yeah,
well prepared to have your opinion ofthe man changed. Okay, we got
some good news and some bad news. Here's the good news to tell you
if he murders him, I wasdefinitely gonna Yeah. Good news is that
baby Maddox is responding to Oh good. The cancer care is probably still going
(06:30):
to have a long road ahead ofher, but it kind of seemed like
she's gonna be out to go,Maddie. But the bad news is that
the family dog has gotten sick andhe can't afford the vet for the euthanasia.
So he does what I found tobe kind of despicable. Takes his
dog out on a nature walk andthen he strangles his dog. If you
(06:54):
strangle something anything, you are apsychopath. Yes, So using your hands
to kill something like, even thoughyou want to put it out of its
misery, Like, there's got tobe a different way other than strangling something.
That's exactly what I would think worsewalk Ever, totally now, it's
not really clear if he ever sharesthat information with you know, his wife.
(07:18):
You know, he may have justsaid that the dog ran away.
I don't really know. I don'tknow, but the dog's name was Trooper,
so definitely definitely a Maltese exactly.Um, so I should also say
it's about to get a lot worse. Okay, great, yep, And
Ryan Lawrence looks like mclovin from theSuper Bad. So for people listening,
(07:44):
if you google Ryan Lawrence trial,you can see this guy and he just
looks like an angry mclovin. He'sgot a super high pitched voice. And
I'm gonna play a clip for youtowards the end of this episode, kill
that dog it. Honestly, hedoes not sound too far off from that.
I was trying. I realised,Hey, you want to some tea?
(08:07):
I have time. I gotta dosome deliver make sure I get to
the gas station. You know,you said you didn't listen to this episode,
and and now I'm starting to thinkyou live. I didn't. Is
that a great impression. Yeah,I'm so talented. So by all appearances,
we know about the dog thing,but most people don't, and they
just assume that he's just a loving, doting father. He takes the baby
(08:28):
with him when he does the pastrydeliveries. And where the action of this
episode starts is his wife is startinga new job at the mall. And
the idea is that picture yeah,sorry, there's coffee. Bean has moved
in. Tea store is a thingof the past. Coffee is a new
rage. So the plan is they'regonna drop Morgan off at work. He's
(08:50):
gonna take the baby with him forthe day, and then at the end
of the shift they come pick herup. But he's got no license,
right and this time he does nothave a license. So this is where
it takes in gonna take a turn. So Morgan, the wife, she
goes to work and she's expecting themto be there for her when her shift
is over, but instead, what'sthat She's had a tough one. She's
(09:11):
been working at the kiosk. Yeah, exactly, Coffee stains all over the
places that job. Instead, Ryanand the baby did not return. She
got a series of texts saying thatthe cars in the parking lot. The
keys are inside the car. Healso apparently sent her an eight minute video
saying I can't do this anymore.I want you to have the life that
(09:35):
you deserve. I'm taking the babywith me. That video was never released
to the public, so it's notclear exactly what he said, but all
those texts about the keys being inthe car all verifiable. Most of the
story in this episode is being toldby the grandpa, who is his daughter,
(09:56):
is the wife, And so I'mgoing to play a clip just because
he's This audio is from his impactstatement in court where he's talking about kind
of how his life has changed sinceall these events have happened. So he's
kind of speaking from the point ofview of somebody who's already experienced the tragedy
that's going to unfold. But Ijust want to play this clip because he
(10:18):
is an incredibly emotional storyteller and thismoment, this is about a minute long
of him just talking about the fearthat the family was feeling when they just
had a series of texts in acar in the parking lot. I don't
know what's going on. Our Nightmarehit series, we sat together waiting and
(10:39):
wondering where Max was, how Urningcould do this power. After hour,
we just waited, continually answering questionsfrom police while Morgan replayed the events of
the night to each new officer shehad waiting with Morgan and seeing her grief
was god runching. The thoughts thatran through my mind stifling. So my
(11:03):
Defensio's granddaughter is twenty one month oldbaby who was now in an unfamiliar place.
I had questions, was she withstrangers, how was it being treated,
was she seeing? How scared wasshe? And then I just wanted
her back in my arms. Iwanted her regrated with her mother. I
(11:26):
wanted her to feel safe and lovedagain. I wanted her home. I
was confused and scared that I mightnever see my granddaughter again. Reactions.
He sounds younger than I thought hewas going to sound. Yeah, Grandpa
is misleading. Yeah, I don'ttell you about a fam I want here
(11:48):
to take the dog out for awalk. But he sounds younger. He
sounds terrified, you know, andall those questions that are going through his
head are fine. But you'd belike, be like I would be like,
what is he doing? Not whereshe had like why is he doing
this? That's that was a littlebit weird to me, because I'd have
(12:11):
why why is he doing this?It's you know, we got to get
the baby back. We'll take careof the baby. We're not worried about
my daughter having the you know,lengthen text messas the life she deserved.
Whatever, Well, we'll get herjob at Applebee. She'll meet a fine
young man there. Yeah. Right, so it's it's weird. It's weird
(12:31):
so far. But Dad, fromthe conversation, they don't sound like they
have money, do they. That'sa good point it I would imagine either.
I do know that they had todo like a go fund me at
some point to try to help raisesome funds for Okay, but even if
they have money, if you suddenlyare dealing with cancer patient, I feel
(12:52):
like that being accounts getting right,Yeah, the bank account, but they
would probably have medical if they hadmoney. Um, and just what the
daughter's doing and the what the otherthe murderer his jobs are? Do you
think I will say this about themurderer. He's not lazy. He's got
three jobs. Yeah, that's that'sthat's something. Yeah, if you,
(13:13):
if you had a daughter, you'dwant for your for the a guy that's
gonna put the effort out. Butthen maybe got over his skis a little
too far and lefty. I can'tI can't work but I don't know that
the story is maybe he was justa well, it's a little bit of
all the above. Um. Thegrandpa does state that before all these events
happened, there was a conversation thathe had in the car with Ryan sort
(13:35):
of talking about this responsibility of havinga family, and the grandpa really misjudged
this guy because he really felt thatRyan was being honest about doing the right
thing and trying to like make agreat family. So a lot of what
he says later in the episode isabout just being deceived by this guy.
Um. So, after uh anamber alert is issued, they have the
(14:01):
mom go on to like a reallysad like if anyone has any information,
you know, right, because hedoesn't have a car, right right,
They just have no idea where heis or where anybody is. But then
sixty hours later there's a nine oneone call. Now his picture has been
posted all over the city. Everybody'slooking for him, and the person who
(14:22):
called nine one one said that someonematching his description has been seen. But
this guy was wearing a disguise,a wig, a baseball hat, sunglasses,
camo pants, plastic grocery bags overhis boots. People actually thought he
was homeless. He was carrying likea big comforter blanket and he smelled like
(14:45):
a campfire, so people just assumedthat he was a homeless guy. This
is to me one of the mostbizarre parts of this entire story. So
the police come to this guy andhe says that his name is our Low
Rivers. They ask him for hisbirthday. He gives his actual birthday,
(15:07):
so they look up Arlow Rivers findthat there's nobody with that ridiculous name,
first of all, and second ofall, nobody with that ridiculous name born
on September twelfth or whatever. ButRyan Lawrence was born on September twelfth,
and this is the guy that everybody'sbeen looking for. So, like a
scene straight out of a movie,they ask him to take his hat off,
(15:30):
and then his wig falls off,and his exact words were, you
got me. My god, itall right. So that's just he had
got me, you got me?I would it leaves that all right?
No idea, I was wearing awig. Now you got me, you
got me. That's his exact quote. Oh Arlow, I want to know
(15:52):
where he came up with that name. Also, in his possession camping gear
a handcuff key a book called onehundred Deadly Skills, which was written by
a retired Navy seal. But there'sstill no baby, and the reason he
smells like a fire, that's absolutelyright. Sadly, when he's questioned by
police, he tells them, actually, kind of what you predicted early on.
(16:17):
He says that he gave the babyto his friends, to Chris and
Taylor, and now everybody's out ofthe country safe, So you're a weird
cult theory. There's a thread there, But it turns out those are not
real, fake right, totally fake. The detectives were taking him to all
these different sites throughout the day wherehe had said he had been for the
last sixty hours, and sixty hoursis how many days, twenty four times
(16:40):
two forty eight and a half days, two and a half days. Eventually,
the detectives kind of build a rapportwith him and they keep asking him
about Chris and Taylor, and hefinally comes clean and says that that's not
really a true story, and hetells the detectives, you're not going to
look at me the same way onceI tell you what I did with the
(17:02):
body, And that, of courseis another dramatic cliffhanger in the episode.
Now we do get the reveal ofwhat happened, but we don't know why
it happened. So one of thereally sad parts here is that police divers
find the remains of baby Maddox tiedto a cinder block and left like in
(17:26):
the river. Now, there's aclip that I want to play. There's
this news reporter that's been covering thisbreaking story throughout the entire day, and
there's a moment, it's right atthe very beginning of this clip where I
just felt like the humanity of thisnews reporter really comes through in this.
The quote, the phrase is rightat the top where he just says,
(17:48):
it's a rotten day. It's arotten day here in Syracuse, New York.
So I just want to hear thathe talks a little bit about kind
of how the community was really hopingthere would be a happy ending to the
story but didn't turn out that way, and what a rotten day here in
Syracuse. We have just learned fromSyracuse Police that a body that is believed
to be twenty one month old,the Maddox Lawrence, has been pulled from
(18:11):
the Inner Harbor where we have beenreporting all morning long, where we have
been where members of the community haveturned out, some of them with their
children, concerned mothers, hoping againsthope that this would end a different way,
but it is just not. Solet's take you down to the Inner
Harbor, just along the creek walk, this place that brings so many people
in central New York Joy, oneof the absolute best places to walk your
(18:36):
dog or just take a walk witha friend and catch up. We'll now
be etched in people's minds as theplace where the body of this little girl
was found. Pretty pretty fucked out, to say the least. Now we
learn at this point that the lastquestion, oh, of course, So
do we hear him talking to thepolice? Now, okay, because I
(18:56):
want to I want to know ifyou could feel any guilt. You can't.
You can't get that audio. Um, it's really was just sort of
conversation between this detective and the killer. So the only way to really hear
that part of the story is tohear the detective tell it, because he
kind of talks about well, firsthe said this, and then the detective
(19:18):
thing he's got guilt or he's justlike, yeah, you got me Oh
my god, I feel bad becauseI shouldn't have done that, but I,
you know, really wanted to doit too. Despite the joke of
a line of you got me,it does sound like he has some legit
guilt and remorse for what he did. Okay, so this is different from
from most of these stories because mostof these people I don't have any guilt
(19:41):
about this murder. That is.That is true and part of the big
kind of I don't know if it'sreally a twist in this episode, but
the final reveal we'll get into isreally the why, like why this all
happened. I thought it was veryinteresting. I'm pretty excited about it.
But before that, before that,there are actually two different rhyme scenes that
are being investigated. One is theriver walk where the baby was found.
(20:03):
Was a mother good looking, she'spretty cute, cool? Yeah, she
was pretty cute. Um, shedefinitely could have done better than a super
bad mcloup. Well what do youdescribe? I'm like, I wonder what
you look like? You know?Yeah, Well, here's the thing,
Like all the pictures of her orthe videos of her, is she's so
sad because her baby's gone and herwhole life has fallen apart sexually sad woman.
(20:25):
Yeah, so it's a little weirdto be like, oh yeah,
she was hot, but it's like, yeah, yeah, it's it is
pretty. It's pretty sad. ButI could see And if you guys are
saying at home, you guys arehaving way too much fun. We gotta
have fun. It's gotta be fun. Yeah, so stupid. Yeah,
yeah, I've said on this showmany times, this is a defense mechanism.
We're laughing about it because you don'twant to just hear us crying.
(20:47):
Yeah, that's not really a goodpart if you If you do, there's
the opposite of laughters crying. Sowe're gonna laugh. So there's two crime
scenes, like I mentioned, Oneis the River Bad and the other is
this place out in the woods wherehe had great crime scenes. Yes,
he had taken authorities there a littleearlier in the day and they found basically
the remnants of a camp fire,and as you alluded to earlier, they
(21:12):
did drop the hint of him smellinglike a camp fire when he got picked
up. But we've learned at thispoint that basically he took his baby out
to the woods. He struck herin the head with a wooden baseball bat
and then burned the baby, burnedthe bat, you know, dumping oil
on the fire, and just kindof let it burn out overnight. And
(21:36):
then he scooped up the remains,put it into a container, tied it
to a cinder block, and thendrove twenty minutes north to where he threw
it in the waters. And thenhe took the car and dropped it off
at the mall. That's when hedropped it out of the mull. So
he did this all while she wasat work, that's right. And we
do also learn he does say thathe took the baby to that location the
(21:59):
day before, but he couldn't gothrough with it, which I thought was
good for him for now. Healso he's no quitters, that's true.
Man works three jobs for christing Umcertainly after this um. He also apparently
had spray paint that he was goingto use to change the color of his
skin. And he had this wholepook of that neon man that's not suspicious
(22:25):
at all. Let a safety cone. What a weird colored man. Yeah,
So his plan was that he wasgoing to make it look like he
and the baby had run away andthen he was going to commit suicide.
Now stay with me for a minutehere, because again this gets a little
(22:45):
a little weird, But this isjust how this guy's mind works. He
wanted to commit suicide somewhere along theOhio River, and he hoped that his
body would make its way to theCaribbean, which is where his mother's ashes
were dispersed. So where to gomake loving? Yeah. In court,
Ryan gives a huge apology to allthe family members, saying that he doesn't
(23:10):
expect forgiveness. You're goddamn right,you don't. It is a legitimate,
heartfelt, sad monologue, which reallydoes not happen a lot in these cases.
Like you pointed out, can Ican I and I push it out.
If you're gonna I'm gonna bring itup again. I've done. This
is my second show, and I'mwant to say it right now. If
you're gonna kill yourself, just killit. Please, just don't bring other
(23:32):
people and just do it. Iknow, and there's somebody who go out
there can complaint, but no,if you're planning on killing other people and
yourself, just do yourself. Yes, there we go. Well, here's
the thing were respect. He getssentenced to twenty five years to life,
which means that on his fiftieth birthday, which will be in two thousty one,
Jesus, he will appear before aparole board and he might be let
(23:56):
might be let back out. Nowwe mentioned earlier the wife in this story.
I want to play a clip ofher begging the court to not let
him out of prison. Okay,as there's all the rise actions I need
for him to spend for rest ofhis lifetime in prison. I fear for
(24:18):
my safety and fear for the stillgirl histec in the community. He's a
safe everyone flayed he's and he's beentrying all of us for his actions.
He's carried that unbelievable when he wantsnidulous situation in his favor before parole would
(24:38):
par five years from now, hemay see a remorseful he may vague to
be released to make av changeful.He's a monster. Should I truly don't
believe you don't kill a go gettinga chance. Don't give him a chance.
(24:59):
This He is the most horrible thingI've ever endured in my life.
I want you to know you willnot Da and my daughter in my whole
life. You told me therefore,you don't deserve another chance of your own.
So I got a couple of questions. Please she does Were they having
(25:26):
problems? Well, I was goingto move into a segment that I like
to call what's my trauma? AndI was going to give you three choices
and you can decide what you thinkwas the actual trauma. One of those
three was did he have some maritalproblems think that his wife was having an
affair and didn't know what to dowith it. Was he abused as a
(25:48):
child, unable to play his favoritesport of baseball? Or was he sad
that his mommy died? Oh?I would have If it's those three,
I'd say probably number one because ofhim wanting her to have the life that
she deserved. A great guess,but it's incorrect, son of a bitch.
(26:12):
This kid deserves to die. Thecorrect answer is that Ryan was sad
that his mommy died. So,but it doesn't make sense. It's a
douche move. I'm gonna I'm gonnago visit my mom, but I'm gonna
take my kid with me. Right, Oh, I decided I'm not going
just sending the kid. Well,here's where we get you're laughing because this
(26:32):
is crazy. It SIPs absolutely insane. This is truly the biggest batch crazy
part of the whole story. So, after he was arrested, similar to
another episode that we covered, areporter was granted the rights to a prison
interview, and it is creepy asfuck. Here we go. Now.
I mentioned not too long ago thatRyan wanted his own dead body to drift
(26:59):
to where his mother's ashes were scattered. Right well, because that's gonna happen.
Jesus Christ, you know anything abouttidal waves and tides. Come on,
man, I do want to thinkabout a beaver. Damn, you're
not gonna get You're gonna be stuck. You never think about the beavers.
You have everything all charted out,and then there's an unexpected damn just shows
(27:21):
up and ruins everything. So Ryantells this reporter that a week before he
kidnapped and murdered his baby, hestarted to hear the voice of his dead
mother in his head. I wastelling him that he should give baby Maddox
to her so that she could helpsolve his family's problems. Ryan, bring
(27:42):
me the baby so you can livelonger. Right now. Ironically, his
mother was a social worker who spentmost of her life helping victims of violent
crimes. And she did that becauseher brother was murdered back in the nineties.
Wow, So I don't really thinkthere's a vengeful mother ghost that's really
(28:03):
telling him to do this. Wealso learned that when when Ryan's parents got
divorced, he reacted to that lossby hurting himself. He's a cutter.
He's a cutter, and he'd youknow, burn his skin with metal and
other objects. When his mother died, he burned a heart onto his chest
(28:27):
with incense. And then on whatwould have been his mother's fifty ninth birthday,
that's when he kidnapped and murdered hisdaughter, who was like, yeah,
the daughter was named after his mother, which makes it even weirderdie pretty
crazy, right, And in prisonhe apparently burned his zodiac symbol into his
(28:51):
hand, and he burns his legwith heated broken bottles. I'm sure in
prison he should be just getting punchedin the face every day. Right.
They don't like baby killers in prison, They certainly don't. And I've teased
it now. I'm not going toplay you a clip. This is from
the prison interview You're going to hearRyan talking about why he did what he
did, and the reporter asks somepretty pointed questions as well, I'm not
(29:15):
this monster that people try to portrayme to be on the media. What
I did was horrible, What Idid was wrong, What I did was
unfair. What I did was illegal. Yeah, and evil. But it
wasn't me. It wasn't me.It wasn't it was this storm. It
(29:36):
was this madness that it was takingover. You couldn't just be evil that
come to you. I don't thinkso, because what I was trying to
do was not evil. I wasn'ttrying to hurt anybody. I was trying
to save Max. I was tryingto save my life. I was trying
to save my family from from hurtainstrong ever and the most selfish act I've
(30:02):
ever done. I thought irrationally thatit was going to be the most selfless
thing I would ever do. Andyou realize how crazy that sounds. I
mean, yes, yeah, itsounds crazy. Yeah, And it sounds
like he's just he's an idiot.And also he sounds like mcloven with a
higher word. Later, I waslike, he's got the same kind of
lisp going on. I'm telling you, dude, Oh man, that's crazy.
(30:26):
Um, I don't know, man, It's just he must be getting
beaten every day in prison, right, I mean I imagine that he is,
like you said, they don't likebaby killers in prison, and he's
just that voice that look. Imean, he really it's just not a
good situation for him, but hefucking deserves it. Absolutely, Yeah,
(30:47):
absolutely, I just don't it doesn't. I don't. Did you say he
was an asshole of a person toher? Would like to like, what's
their relationship bad? Or was heactually a loving guy? You know?
From all accounts, it would seemthat he was a loving guy. I'm
imagining that he definitely had to havehad some major issues kind of going into
(31:10):
all this, Like like we said, we learned when he was younger,
he had all this trauma from hisfamily splitting up, So he's probably not
a well balanced guy. I wouldhave liked to have heard from the wife
when she gave that speech, likeI loved you and you trade or you
you fooled me the whole time,you know, you'd like, I would
never suspected that you would do anythinglike this from the way you treated me,
(31:32):
or I would have. I should. It's my fault. Yeah,
But you know, there aren't likea lot of these stories you hear about
all of the domestic violence that ledup to this, like there's none of
that in this case. It reallythat's part of what makes this such a
strange episode or a strange case,is that it just seemed like he snapped,
like he suddenly was. It happens. It does. I don't want
(31:53):
to do, but it happens.It does. And you know the bottom
line is that Ryan had all ofthese resources to help him. You can
hear from like the grandpa stuff,like there was a close family unit,
and so the idea that Ryan decidedthat it would be up to him when
his daughter would die, instead ofshe's gonna have a tough life, but
(32:14):
she's gonna still have a life,right, And so not to end it
on such a depressing note, Ishould say that there's also a memorial bench
alongside the riverwalk where the baby wasfound, and you know, it was
a crime that impacted the entire community, and even years later, there's still
like an active Facebook group of peoplelike just from the community trying to show
(32:36):
support, and like every year theyyou know, pay tribute to this baby.
So there's a little bit of humanitythat comes out of it. But
what a piece of shit, Whata piece of I wish. Yeah,
it's weird how it can bring peopletogether. Yeah, I know. And
that poor girl, I don't knowhow she's how the mother's doing, you
(32:59):
know, why she moved on andhad kids with somebody else, or or
didn't ever want to have kids again, or didn't even became a lesbian.
You know who knows? You know. Um, it's just it's just I'm
glad they caught him because there wasa way he probably could have got away.
But it sounds like he's kind ofdumb. Yeah, I think so.
But Neon Spring ain't was really verya stand out for sure. I
(33:23):
just don't. I don't get thewhole I'm going to jump in the river
and I like, yeah, Idon't. Yeah, it's when it starts
to border on like crazy person.Yeah, and you're just you're just wondering,
well, was he crazy at anyof these jobs or is he just
another guy that just this kind ofwent out And it is sad, but
(33:44):
yeah, gives us something to talkabout. Therefore, thank you, Maddie.
Yes, I hope terrible. It'sterrible. It's absolutely terrible. But
oh you gotta laugh. That's right. I hope I was able to impart
the story well enough for you,you made and just he just yeah,
I paint pictures with my words.You did, and I just see that
neon man walking down the street andit was fan right. Well, thanks
(34:06):
everybody for listening. We'll be backwith another episode in due time. And
until next time, don't be adouchebag, don't be a douchebag, don't
murder people sort of scale. Rewadis a production of Incongruity Media. If
(34:29):
you enjoyed the show, leave usa five star rating at a glowing review.
No criticism please, it hurts ourfeelings. Be sure to tell your
friends about us, but not yourfamily or co workers because they'll think you're
weird. Okay, that's it.Until next time, don't be a douchebag.
(35:00):
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