Episode 167

This week, Matt and Ian stall for as long as humanly possible in an effort to avoid discussing one of the saddest episodes of Sword and Scale ever. Damn you Mike Boudet and your emotional storytelling!

Episode Transcript

(00:05):
Welcome to Sword and Scale Rewind withyour hosts Matt Fondelier and Ian Bag.

(00:39):
Hey, everybody, welcome back toSword and Scale Rewind. This is the
show where we talk about that othershow, Sword and Scale. You know
what, You'll love it. Hopefullyyou like us too. I'm one of
the hosts. My name is MattFondelier. I've written some episodes of the
show, but I just love it. I just love Sword and Scale.
Scared the crap out of me manymany years ago. I just got totally

(01:00):
hooked on it. And if you'relistening to the show, I sort of
feel like you're probably feeling the sameway. Now I'm joined once again by
one of my good buds, IanBag. Well, this is how I
found the show. How did youfind out about it? Well, I
reached out to you. I reachedout to me. He said, Andy,
let this be scared shitless. Iwas like, who is this and
he's in It's finally and I said, oh, well found Eller and uh.

(01:21):
And then I listened to the show. I'm like, wow, I
had a chance and maybe I'm partof this. And you said, well,
it's a matter of fact. Asa matter of fact, yes,
come in in and now we talkedmurder every week. We just loved the
way that you talked about dead babiesand horrible murders. That we are like,
this guy is our guy. Thisguy has no shame, but we
love him. Well, if youlisten to me last week, then you

(01:44):
did your homework and you already listenedto episode one sixty seven, And if
you listen to one sixty seven,you're probably curled up in a little ball
in the fetal position in your Sothis one, this is uh, definitely
one of the more aft up storiesthat we've done, which is really seeing
something because everyone's they're all mess Sothis one is just this is just sadness.

(02:08):
It's just there's a couple parts inhere where I know, I don't
think we're victim blaming, but we'lldiscuss sure. That's what we do on
the show. This is a reactionshow. If you've never listened to it
before, what we do is welisten to the same thing you just listen
to, and then we say allthose things that you're probably thinking, yeah,
and let us know if you thinksome of these things, like let

(02:30):
us know what you thought when youher first heard this. Wow, that
came out hard. Yeah. Whenit starts the episode, I'm I'm blaming
mom instantly. Yeah, just likea matter because I don't know about these
cases. So just the way youlisten to it, you just go,
this bitch killed her kids. Ofcourse it's true. I have the exact
same problem when you're when you getreally into the true crime podcast genre,

(02:55):
you find yourself becoming what's called anarmchair detective, where just you're lean back
and you're you're doing the facts,searching yourself. You're trying to figure it
out before the answers are revealed,just the facts. Mike, Yes,
and I am like you two andthat when this episode started and you hear
them, well, really, evenbefore they mentioned the mom, they just
mentioned the dad. They mentioned KevinKrim, who's like on an airplane back

(03:21):
from a trip. He's looking forwardto seeing his kids, and then police
are boarding the plane and I'm like, this guy did it. That's why
I thought. I was like,now he was fucking around in Chicago,
that son of a bitch was havingall sorts of orgies. Well and Matt
his wife murdered, right, Yeah, And it's not at all the story,
No, at all, there's twotwists right off the bat. Yeah,
I was shocked. Were you shockedthat they made that announcement on the

(03:45):
plane? The police stay seated thepolice, I think they have to,
but he wasn't being arrested. Ofcourse they wanted they wanted to get to
him before, you know, butit didn't make sense that they wouldn't have
just been waiting for him or madethe announcement for or him. Kes that
made it sound like there was acriminal onboard. I think I agree with
you. They could have handled thisin a much more subtle way. Right.

(04:10):
I'm assuming that the reason it tookplace on the plane was because they
knew that this guy was in seattwenty two F or whatever, and so
they could very easily identify this person, right versus waiting at the end of
that ramp when you get off theplane and then just knowing which of these

(04:30):
passengers is the guy. It wasjust it was just weird. And when
when I gotta say this, whenI say things about they handle this wrong.
You know, at the end ofthe day, we're all human,
Like they may be the police,but they're humans. Sure, they don't
they don't we don't know, youknow, they may be experts, but
at the same time we're just human. So absolutely. Yeah. So when

(04:51):
I when I say, oh,these fucking douche and wetpts, yeah I
was more so. I was moreshocked than a MSNBC suppressed sends our eyes
out and coach, Yeah that's funny. I was like, really it was
in coach, that's weirder. Comedianwas upfront. Yeah that's right, baba.
I fly first class. Wow,look at you, and I like

(05:14):
to brag about it every so often. What's that like, I've never done
it? Shut up, Let's justtake a minute away from this case.
I'm totally serious. Look, Idon't have never, I've never flow never.
Okay, I'm gonna tell you.Hold on, let me tell you
the one first class experience. Nooh. This was me coming home from
my honeymoon with my beautiful wife,flying home from London and through circumstances that

(05:36):
were out of our control, wenearly missed our flight from London back to
California and running like home alone style, running through the airport trying to make
this flight. We finally got onthe flight and we had to walk through
first class and I looked at twoseven year old boys who had these full

(06:00):
cliners, and I'll never forget justsipping from a cup of orange juice,
and I was like, I'm sweatingand panting from running through the airport,
and I was just like, thesefucking kids, they're never gonna understand they're
seven years old. They're never gonnaremember this experience. This is my honeymoon.
This is my honeymoon that I think, honestly, I don't think kids
should be allowed in first class.No, I really don't think it should
be a twenty one and over club. You should be required to drink.

(06:24):
I have required to drink in firstclass, and then you have everybody turned
into oasis, going to calling peoplepan heads for no apparent race. I
tell me about this glory, becauseagain I've only I walked through. And
then they closed those two little hampercurtains. I don't see the curtain.
The curtains close on international flights,but they don't on on just a regular

(06:45):
yeah, domestic. I looked atthe curtain and they were like, sir,
turn your head away to look that. Don't even think about moving that.
We're gonna have you exit from theback of the Blaney. Um.
It is the best flying drink.You get a snap, you get,
you get sometimes you get a hottowel. They used to give you hot
towels, and uh and uh,stay, give you a little package when

(07:05):
you fly international. Then you justput on some socks and aren't you own.
You can get pajamas. You canwear pajamas. It's the best.
But the problem with first classes oneday you end up flying private jet.
Once you're facing the dragon, Dude'schased because once you're fly private jet,
you come back to first class andoh this is bullshit because on private jet

(07:27):
you have estimated time of leaving adeparture, and on a on a on
this first class you're still leaving atexact times. So yeah, it is
be honest with me. And anotheraudio is going out to a lot of
people. But you're living the highlife. You're flying private jets. You
know you're flying first class. Everbeen to the mile high Club? Have
I ever been to male high?Up? For the listener step been shipping

(07:49):
on an airplane? I'm not answeringthis. All right means yes on Southwest
back years ago, sad dumb allof say, I'll tell you fish sticks,
that's all us. I don't wantto know what that means. We
have to laugh up front here becauseI just don't want to get into this

(08:11):
exist and I don't want to doit. I don't want to talk about
these things. As soon as weget there, it's no more, no
more first class, no more firstclass talk. Yeah, I have to
reluctantly try to bring us back tothe story here. Now, neither of
us have to let you know,just let you people know. Michael's looking
through it at us through a windowover there, telling us to keep on
track. Yeah. Probably he's justlike you guys telling this story. Mike

(08:35):
doesn't care. He he cares howwe roll. He cares, he does,
he cares too much, he carestoo much. All right, let's
try to let's try to get throughthis story. This one's really messed up.
I don't have kids. I knowyou don't have kids. So neither
of us have had to deal withhaving a caretaker, somebody that you trust
too. How about a dog walker? Oh, there you go, you
have to trust him. So I'venever had a dog walker before. Yeah,

(08:58):
my wife, My wife makes themrigorously fill out for him. And
yeah, we have to have theywould to be suggested I gotta yeah,
all sorts of things, but aswe learn in this, you can't trust
them. Mean shit. I meanhonestly, this is the type of story
that makes me feel like if Iwere to have kids, I would I
don't care how hard it would be. I would have to just constantly be
watching them. I would not allowanybody, nobody allowed to look at It

(09:22):
sounds like, according to my friends, that's what happens on the first child.
If you have another one, youstopped caring as much as much.
Yeah, it kind of slowly slipsdown. Yeah. I was actually this
past week and I hung out withsome friends of mine, just punched a
microphone, some friends of mine thatI hadn't seen in forever, but somebody
that I grew up with, andI was reminded that at age eight,

(09:46):
my friend and I were dropped offby my parents at the movie theater to
go see a classic film called HotShots Part And I always remember that it
was like the first time I evergot to see a movie in the theater
by myself without my parents. Butyou're eight, eight years old, and
I had it in my memory thatthis happened. But as I've gotten older,
I have thought that can't be true. I can't possibly be true.

(10:11):
And I hung out with my friendand I was like, do you have
this memory? And he remembered theexact movie title and everything, and we
know when that movie was released,and it just my parents are incredible.
I have amazing parents. Can youimagine in twenty twenty one or twenty twenty
two having dropping off your eight yearold child to go see a movie and

(10:33):
this was something that was just happeningall the time. I'll go a reverse
on you. Isn't it sad thatwe can't? Yes, that's the problem,
Like not that. Can you believeyou could? You could? It's
like, right, well, you'reright. Why why have we gotten to
that point? What? What havewe let take over the internet? Is
that what it is? I thinkthere's just two Like it used to be.

(10:54):
You only found out about a missingkid if you were a milk drinker
and you bought write carton of milk, you know what I mean? Like
now I want to check my emailand they're seventeen links, especially because I
read true crime stuff. My Facebookwall is my Google search engine. I'm
surprised police have not come to mydoor before. I've got to Google some

(11:16):
very upsetting things. Oh my god, but christ, Google just hasn't shut
you down. Hey man, canyou come down a little bit. Yeah,
I'm sure it's only a matter oftime. But I think, honestly,
that's why I think it is.I think, my You know,
all of the people now who havekids have heard more stories than they could
ever ever, so you expect tohear, so you don't think there's more.

(11:39):
You don't think more stuff is happening. You think it's the same amount.
But we know more. I'm gonnaeven go a step further. I'm
willing to bet that there's a littlebit less than they're used to be,
but now we know more. Andthe reason I think there's less is because
of like security cameras and stuff.I think back in the day, people

(12:03):
could be just completely carefree about kidnappingsomebody without anyone finding out, Like there
was just so many ways to getaway with X, y Z. But
now I think there is a deterrentto having everybody having the camera and their
hand cameras being installed in buildings allthe time. So I feel like there

(12:24):
has been a slight decrease, butthe amount of information has just exploded that's
my hot take. That's a goodhot take. Thank you. I'll tell
you mine. I mean it's nota hot take. I just something about
that what you just said. Icould never get my camera open on my
phone and time to tape anything.I don't know how people actually tape stuff.
Yeah, I can describe about whatjust happened my camera. But well

(12:48):
again, i'll tech talkie after theshow. Here, let's get let's get
that baby on your home screening,and I feel like we can figure this
out. That's two episodes and arail you've called my grandpa. That is
awesome. O love it. Yeah, all right, Hot Shots Part two?
What was your favorite part? Ohmy god? Well, I think
at the very end of the moviewhen mister Bean, who's the long lost

(13:11):
husband is rex rescued from prison andCharlie Sheen, who's rescuing him, is
carrying him on his shoulders and isgetting shot repeatedly, and mister Bean,
who's not the one being shot,is the one who's like complaining about how
long it's all taking. And there'sjust a big finale with the American Gladiators.
I mean, it's it's one ofthe all time greats. I love

(13:35):
those kind of dumb movies. Yeah. Yeah, it's sad that there's not
more in the month anymore. Yeah, anyone else is sad in this horrible
case. I know, I'm tryingto push it off. I don't know
if let's go to that. Let'snot, let's not review hot Shots Part
two. Oh no, Well,let's go back to this idea of needing

(13:56):
somebody to take care of your kids. It's not going to be just anybody.
You want to make sure that youget references, right, And in
this particular story, that's exactly whathappened. They the parents were very conscientious
about who's gonna watch their kids,and well, they weren't even planning on
getting a nanny, were they right? They were just making it work,

(14:16):
just working from home. Mega Network, Mega Network, And then they were
The wife was approached by somebody,Celia, who said, hey, you
should hire my sister. She's greatwith kids, Celiac, She's worked with
kids before. And she said,when you guys have your third child,
you guys are gonna need her.You're gonna need it. Now we find

(14:39):
out the very third child you're gonnaneed, You're gonna need this babysitter to
get rid of two of them.Oh no, horrible, but if you
done in sorry, I apologize toeverybody at home work. Well, we
find out at the very end ofthis episode that can I stop. Yes,
I want to put it out thereto people children. Yeah, I'm

(15:01):
available. Look when I'm not flyingfirst class, let me take care of
it. Yeah. I want toknow. How many people have a nanny
And there's there's different rates of nanni's, like one that just is in the
afternoon, that comes over after likeafter school, or do you have a
full full day nanny? Because Iknow a couple of friends that have nanny's

(15:22):
um and there they I have onethat has a full time nanny, and
then I have one that just youknow, they come over and they do
stuff when when after school? Sodo you do you think it's unnecessary?
Do you think do you think it'sgross that somebody has one? Or I
need to know take on nanny's Yeah, because I don't. I don't know.

(15:43):
Like when I hear the story,I'm like, well, my mom
didn't work and my dad worked andmy mom was able to keep it all
together, Like why us all together? Why? Why does she need why
does she need a nanny. Imean, listen, everybody, I gotta
just preface it by by trying toapologize as an advance for people who do
live this kind of a life.I do think that if you don't have

(16:06):
a job, one of the peoplein the relationship doesn't have a job,
that person can be the full timeis the nanny, right skin maybe should
be the nanny. But I alsounderstand that people have ambitions, people have
things that they want to do intheir lives. They don't want to be
seen as just a mother or ahousewife or insert word here. So I

(16:27):
understand that if again, just inthis nineteen fifties view of Americana where the
husband goes off to work and it'sjust a wife's job to watch the kids.
That's kind of like an old schoolof thinking. So I can see
how having a caretaker at home tohelp lighten the load if you have multiple
kids, it requires a lot ofwork. I get it, I understand,

(16:51):
and I know this is this isweird, but it's part of the
story. I'm like, how muchmoney is this guy making at CNBC?
Right, he can afford a nanny, but not a first class ticket.
M still on this first class thingbut you know it's and they're paying cash
for right At least i'd have todo as half a dense attacks right off.

(17:14):
Yeah, well, I mean again, I just like you. I
feel like I've known people on allparts of the spectrum. I know people
who had nanny's, people who didn'thave nannies. I never did. Both
my parents worked, so I don'treally know. I guess that's why they
dropped me off at the movies whenI was eight years old. A lot
I hired about. I was takencare of by the man theaters movie staff.

(17:38):
Um. But yeah, I wasraised on popcorn. I just it
does seem story yoh yeah please.So I'm on LinkedIn and for some unknown
reason, I get a job opportunityfor a comedian. It's for a nanny,
for a comedian to nanny a comedian. No, it's an it's to

(18:00):
be a nanny of a comedian's kids. Okay, there we go right now.
And it was full time and itwas sixty thousand dollars a year or
something like that. There you go. But I was just like, this
is weird, And as I readthrough it, I figured out it was
one of my friends. Oh really, Yes, he's a little pale,
he's blonde, he's from New York. If you can't figure out what that
is. But it was. ButI when they said paid cash, I

(18:23):
was, I was like, this, doesn't you know even though they did
so much, they wanted to referencesand stuff. I felt they paid what
they they got what they paid for, even though they didn't pay for a
murder. They but they still didn't, you know, and I didn't do

(18:45):
enough. Yeah, because if theyhad paid them over the counter, I
don't know what they under the tableis. If they had paid them in
a more professional way, maybe you'renot getting a professional. If you're paying
cash, you're not a professional unlessit's a side job for a professional that
you know. You know, Butit's at the same time, I was

(19:06):
just like, ah, it reallybothered me. It bothered me a lot.
And I'm not blaming the parents.It's just because we know that there's
so many of this happens, andnone of that happens, right, Yeah,
you know, because babysitters don't getpaid cash and they don't murder us
all, you know, so onemore kids so basically get paid cash,
right, I'm saying they get paidcash and none of them barely have references
and stuff like that. Usually teachyour kid how to smoke and stuff.

(19:30):
But then it's it's it's it's Idon't know why it bothers me that they
paid cash for a nanny, butI felt like they didn't get a professional.
Yeah, it's sort of like inthe dating world. What I heard
was that there's certain dating sites thatyou go to if you're actually serious about

(19:51):
having a relationship. You want togo on one of those apps. You
know it's a free site or whatever. You're not going to have high quality
dates. Yeah, you gotta goto plenty of Fish, right, is
that what it is? Somebody thisweekend they'd met on plenty of Fish.
I'm like, is that free?And I like, am I won't be
careful? Yeah exactly. I knowit's a weird thing to equate it too,
but I can I can see whatyou're saying. You do want to

(20:11):
have a nanny, that's I guesslicensed in blah blah blah. But well,
do you go to the mechanic thathas a shop or the guy that
you know has another job that's nothingto do with being a mechanic. But
does it? Does it for funin his garage. Yeah. Yeah,
no, I mean again, Ifeel like I have except and I don't
know why I'm so mad that like, that's that least. Yeah, that's

(20:34):
the least of the situation. Yeah, but it annoys the fuck Adamy.
Well, i'll tell you what bothersme about it. Okay, Well,
besides the by that she murdered children, it's very upsetting a fact. But
what is like really disturbing about thisand kind of messes with my brain is
that allegedly this woman was a prettyokay employee for like two years. Right,

(20:59):
So even if you can get pastthe whole notion of the we are
paying under the table, after ayear, she's proved herself, she's proven
herself, and I feel like atthat point the walls are really coming down.
I mean, you people are gettingtoo relationships with partners that last less
time than that, you know whatI mean. So to me, the

(21:19):
really upsetting part is that this womanjust had this like hatred and stuff just
like festering for two years and neversaid anything about being uncomfortable, and then
she just snapped. And nobody,at least the way this story's told,
nobody had any clue that that wasgoing to happen. It was. It

(21:41):
was interesting that she would say things, but she would put on a different
face with the people, right,you know. They said that she was
being she was annoyed that they offeredher more work because she needed more money.
Like instead of asking her saying saying, no, can you pay me
more? Yeah, she instead wasjust like incredulous that they would even suggest

(22:04):
that. And the hours weren't crazy. It was like twenty five hours a
week at is one of the partsof this episode I have like bulleted and
outlined in my outline. We canget to it right now. Though she
was only working twenty five hours aweek, right, that's the part that
blew my mind. I didn't haveanother job and was able to live in
New York and pay for her son'sprivate school. There's this whole thing where

(22:29):
she's like, it doesn't want herkid to repeat a grade, so they
let's get into that. Let's let'sget into private school. Sure, Catholic
private school seven thousand dollars down payment? Yes, what what's Christian about?
Then? That's a great question.I don't get. I think Catholic private

(22:51):
school should be free, and theypick who they want, but it shouldn't.
You shouldn't be making a profit offof there's no church that should be
make a profit off of teaching somebody. Yeah, I guess when I hear
private school though, if whether ornot it's a religious school, I just
feel like the like school institution takespriority over that church institution, you know

(23:12):
what I mean. Like, I'mnot saying it's right, but I just
feel like, if you're a school, you are, like you're allowed to
charge people tuish in I don't thinkthat should be exorbitant. And I'll tell
you from personal experience, I'm stillpaying my college loans because I went to
an extremely expensive college. My wifeis, yeah, and it's it's ridiculous.

(23:32):
I mean, I had a greatexperience there, but I mean I've
been in a college for over tenyears now, I mean at least tubes.
Yeah. So I mean I understandthat a nice university is going to
cost you some money. And Iguess, like the people in this story,

(23:52):
my parents sent me to a schoolthat they were not prepared to pay
for financially and thus still paying forloans and whatever. But this situation in
this case, I mean the womanhadn't seen her son for like ten or
eleven years, which was a littlebit unclear to me, but she like
fourteen or something left the family andthen I guess maybe started to make a

(24:15):
little bit of money here and thentold him to come on out. And
then now her expenditures are just goingthrough the roof. But I'm she was
also sending money to different charities,you know, all over the place.
And it seemed like she had beentold by somebody that her kid has to
go to a private school. Yeah, if you want your kid to be

(24:36):
anybody, or if you don't wantthem to go to hell, because mom
and dad there's they're they're they're ableto pay for a nanny and they're sending
their kid to public school. Right, So what what? Where? Did?
Where did this twist off? Like? What what happened that this lady
has been talked talked into or toldthat her kid needs to go to private

(24:59):
Christian Catholic school? Right? Yeah, I mean that's one of the larger
questions in this first part of thestory. I one can only surmise that
she it was almost, at leastin my brain, like the seeds of
her envy like just starting to seehow she's trying to be like Marina,
Like she wants to be able togive her kids the kind of thing that

(25:22):
she's seeing and being a part ofevery day. And she's going home to
this you know, shitbox apartment andforgive the term. And so maybe in
her mind this is a an elitestatus that my kid is attending this school.
I'm better than you. Yeah,trying to find a way to get
a little bit weird, weird jealousy, weird jealous weird, weird kind of

(25:44):
thing. We're about twenty five minutes, twenty six minutes into the show,
and I'd like to bring up thatmy sister's name is Jocelyn. Oh,
it is funny when like a nameyou're closed with. It's like the killer
in the story and my sister hasall these attributes. Well, let me
ask you, though, is yoursister name Jocelyn or is it Yoselin.
Well, from now on, she'sgonna be al a lot tonight, Yosel

(26:07):
Yocelin. When you recommend this showto people, maybe don't recommend that your
sister listens to that one. Oh, jos BOSSI uh uh I. I
think the family, not the familythat hired her, but her family was

(26:30):
setting up somebody. It wasn't specificallythese people, but what were they setting
them up for, like putting thislady in charge. Hmm. It was
very bizarre, the whole as it. I don't may have gotten too far
ahead of the story. The factthe fact that they wrote fake recommendations and

(26:53):
stuff from people that didn't have children. Yeah, um is it's not just
a scam, it's evil, rightbecause they had no idea how this lady
took care of kids. Yeah,especially when it's with kids, Like if
you want to write like a fakereference letter because you've got a job at

(27:14):
the Domino's Pizza and you want tosay that you worked at Little Caesar's before,
but you really did it. Yeah, I'm not. I feel like
that's a little bit more okay,right, if you're going to be in
charge of children. Though, let'sbe honest here, it's not School of
Rock. Yeah, you know theythey the twenty five hours thing though.

(27:36):
Yeah, that's that's what's wild tome. And I'm glad that we have
circled back to this because there isa line in the episode where they're saying
that Yosselyn could either have quality timewith her son hayeseus or have money for
hayeseus. Right, And at thetime hearing that sentence, it made sense

(27:56):
to me that, Okay, she'seither got to spend time with her kid
or she's got to be at workto make money for the kid. I
get that she can't have both.But then when you hear that she was
only working twenty five hours a week, now, I'm like, how does
she not have plenty of time tobe and still hang with a kid.
She could work two more part timejobs and still hang with a kid,

(28:18):
or she could work one more fulltime job and still have time with a
kid. She won twenty five hours. Let's commute time for most people,
right, and it's I mean,it is exhausting work to be dealing with
kids. I get that, Buttwenty five hours. Let's just say on
a five days a week, Yeah, Monday to Friday. That's five hours

(28:40):
for Monday to Friday. So that'sten o'clock to three o'clock or three to
three to eight or four to nine, right, four to nine probably actually,
I know you just were trying tomock me, but I'd probably say
no, would probably be two tosix. What what would you think?
What do you think her hours were? Well, they do talk about this

(29:02):
idea of the like dance classes,so it's after school kind Yeah, it
was like an after school thing,so three thirty three. Yeah, but
also one of the kids is liketen months old, it's not even in
school, so my mom probably takescare of that child more. Yeah.
Right, either way, I thinkeven if she showed up at two in
the afternoon, which sounds pretty lateto me, that's a sweet job.

(29:26):
Yeah, that's like, that soundspretty great to me. And you still
have the weekends. Yeah, chugyour beers with your other child, do
you unless do you think it wastwo and a half hours in the morning,
two and a half hours and theswing shift, yea swing shift,
and she's traveling back and forth.But even then maybe, But that's that's
that's a school bus driver. That'sa school bus driver job exactly. And

(29:51):
the idea that the wife, Marinastarted to say to her, Hey you
need some extra money, I'll giveyou some extra hours. Here, your
son can dog sit. And forsome warped, fucked up reason she got
she saw that. Yeah, shetook it as an insult, like,
how dare you say I do morework. I already playing work like I

(30:15):
just that's the disconnect that I'm justnot understanding. She's offering you further employment
and add ten more hours to yourweek. Which what have they created this
over the two years that she's workedshe's worked for them? Correct? Have
they created this jealousy? Like didit start out different? Which isn't said
in the show? You know she'sbasically they've made it seem like she was

(30:41):
above it as she was there,which is fine. You can be above
things, right, You can belike, well, look I don't want
any more hours, I'll keep thesehours. I'll figure it out. You
can be above it, but don'ttake it and then be mad that you
got it exactly right. And also, if you are gonna get mad about
it, let's try to find someother ways to blow off steam here,

(31:04):
right, You know, you don'tneed to be like talking back to your
boss or anything. But what shewas she she didn't talk about it like
they never said there was problems withher, like her work was shoddy.
It was the opposite. Yeah,this was extremely reliable and which which is
so bizarre, Like I fucking hateyou. I'm gonna make this so good.
You'll never find anybody as good asme. Yeah, you, son

(31:26):
of a bitch. I'm gonna cleanthis kitchen counter and you won't look like
anyone ate here. Yeah. Yeah, you will eat off this floor.
You will never buy plates again.Well, listen, I know what it's
like to be angry at work.I think we all do, you know,
But no, I love this.Well, this isn't work, man,
this is this is just play.This is this is twenty five hours

(31:47):
a week. I'm gonna kill Mike. I'm above him. I guess it
just became too much to have liketwo different lives. You know, she
was like taking care of these richkids in this huge house and they weren't
her kids. But then when shewas with her kid, then the setting

(32:14):
wasn't right. So, you know, I think it just nothing ever felt
comfortable. Now, why do youthink she was mentally ill? I think
she's mentally ill to the point whereshe diabolically committed a heinous ad. Right,
She's she's not insane, right,she's evil? For Yeah. Yeah,

(32:36):
I think she has a jealousy,a crazy mental disorder that doesn't stop
her from being a functioning person insociety, but one that allowed her to
think it was okay to do this. That's to me, I don't I
don't know how the courts ever drawthat line, like, yeah, you
were insane for doing this, butyou weren't so insane that you didn't know

(33:00):
you were doing this, and thewe should It's been over half an hour.
Now we got to just now talkabout the horrible thing that we have
been avoiding talking about. Can wetalk about something before we go to there?
Please, let's try to get toa whole hour before we talk about.
Let's all just all sit around andwhispered this a second. Anybody else

(33:21):
find it weird that mom said sheliked the boy the best. I actually
remember that line. She talked abouthow much she liked the boy. Oh
no, yeah, So then oneof the boy dies and one of the
girls dies, but one of thegirls lives. And now later on in
life, you're gonna hear that,because yeah, I was like, oh,
and then what do they do?They have two more kids? Yep,

(33:42):
and they're both boys. I wasjust like, oh my god,
I was so bizarre. It wasjust like, holy shit, Yeah,
it was so bizarre, I willsay, And it's brought up in this
episode too. This does seem likea pretty strong family considering all the stuff
that happened. Yeah, you know, it's that is pretty Uh. The
fact that mom and dad are stilltogether and had more kids is probably not

(34:05):
going to happen in many families aftersomething like that, right, and just
it's like one of the clips thatI have is them talking about, like
focusing on like the good things thatcame out of this, which, as
a listener just hearing the case,I'm just like, right, no good
came out of this? And whatdo you what are you talking about?
Because it would have been very easyfor them to blame each other like why

(34:27):
were you out of town? Wherewere you? Where were you? Like?
What? What the fuck? Youknow? Why why weren't you with
two of the kids at least?Right, But thankfully they don't do any
of that. At least I wouldnot that. Yeah, exactly exactly,
So so tell us what happened,man, lets let's get involved. So
they have this whole thing about bothJocelyn and Marina. Again, that's the

(34:52):
mom, the babysitter and the mom. They're sharing this responsibility of taking the
girls to their different classes. Andthis one ends when this one's about to
start. And for two years,this whole system they had in place all
worked out. But on this onehorrible night, the mom goes to pick
up her daughter and meet them atthe ballet class or whatever it was,

(35:15):
and she's not there, and thenshe starts frantically calling where are you,
and the woman's not picking up thephone. And then, of course the
really horrible part, which is themom comes back to the apartment with her
other daughter. It's really dark inthere, which is creepy as hell,

(35:36):
and then they open the bathroom doorand they see that both of her kids
have been brutally murdered, and thewoman who did it is standing there waiting
for her to see it. Andthen that woman tries to kill herself,
but only after she's had this momentof glory of watching the woman that she
hates be miserable. It's so insane. It's just so insane that she's just

(36:04):
waiting there. And the anger thatshe used on these kids is incredible.
Yeah, it's never brought up inthe court case, when when when where
you listen to it? I'm justlike, I'm like, can you like
the anger was insane? They thoughtthey were they were their heads were taken
off, right, Like, that'scrazy, that is so much anger.

(36:29):
And then the way I apparently theybled out slowly yep. Uh so just
just like so watching them, watchingthem, but like, well, that
was the thing that I think,uh, we probably could have spent a
little more horrible time with there probablyjust wasn't enough information about this. But
to me, the part of thestory that didn't really get addressed is the

(36:51):
fact that Yosselyn was in that bathroomwith those two bodies for ninety minutes,
however long it was. It wasn'tthree minutes, it was way longer than
that. And we talked. Theytalked a lot about what happened with the
actual murders, and obviously one ofthe most disturbing things ever is the idea
that the bodies were stacked, whichis so gross and weird. And I

(37:15):
made, yeah, she's an organizationfirst, But then to just sit in
the bathroom with the door closed andjust sit there in that eerie silence.
You know, do you think shewas waiting to kill the mom? Uh?
No, only because that's we're kindof told in the story. Otherwise,

(37:36):
I don't think they tell us.But I was just like, why
would you wait there? Why wouldn'tyou have just stabbed yourself then? Like
you really think you would just wantedto see your face? Yeah, I
mean that, that to me iswhat makes it because even more because you
think you'd see, let mom seethe see the bodies, and then stab
mom and that would be the lastthing they seen. Right. But I
guess there's there are things worse thandeath, you know. It's like you

(37:57):
you you don't get to die.You have to live the rest of your
life knowing that in what her sheher mind is like you were a horrible
parent and blah blah b Yeah.So I just thought that the whole I
mean, the whole bathroom scene isjust so deeply disturbing. And I don't

(38:19):
know why the idea of the bodiesbeing stacked is so upsetting to me.
You joked about it like that,there's like an organizational aspect to it,
because she's a man. You jokedabout it just gives me trouble. You
joked about it. What else I'msupposed to do? Cry? Yeah?
No, But I don't know.For some reason, if the descriptor had

(38:40):
been that the bodies were just disheveledand thrown into the tub. I don't
think it. I mean, it'sstill very disturbing, but there is something
about the meticulousness of the stacking,and it's there's another episode of Sword and
Scale, one of the ones Iworked on. I think it's actually a
plus one. I don't think itwas one of the main ones. So

(39:00):
unless you want to pay for her, you can't listen to it. That's
what Matt. You said there forSword and Sale plus if you want to
available now. But it was anothercase where the dude like stacked the bodies.
It's got to be some sort ofso weird. It's got to be
some sort of mental disease, right, It's got to be it's got to
be some sort of psychiatry thing.Yeah, I don't. I don't know.
If you're if you're an expert,let us know why people would do

(39:21):
that. Yeah, yeah, Ijust it's got to be something. There's
no there's something to it. It'sit's it's it's definitely specific and calculated.
It's not random. To answer yourquestion, though, I just I guess
I already did. I don't.I don't think that she was ever intended
on killing Marina when she got there. I think she wanted Marie. That's

(39:42):
who she would suffer forever. It'sweird that you don't kill the person that
you're most angry at, because that'swho she was most angry at. They
never say she didn't get along withthe kids or the kids didn't have a
good time, because the kids wouldhave been telling mom, hey, don't
send us with her. You wouldhave you would have seen a change in
the kids, right, Yeah,And they never said that the kids had
that. So all that animosity andanger was built up towards this woman and

(40:06):
just just just wanted to take away. Yeah, just like you said to
Just the anger that this woman had, just the amount of rage is just
so disturbing. And you know,again, there's plenty of other horrible details
to talk about. The idea thatthe little girl who died like tried to

(40:27):
fight for her life, but youknow, she's six years old. The
idea that the other sister was,you know, four years old and she
saw everything was kind of old enoughto understand what was happening. All the
neighbors were calling the shrieks of themom. I mean, there's just what
an awful, awful thing. Yeah, Yeah, that that noise. Mike

(40:49):
brings up one of the sins.I can't remember which sin he brought up.
It was the sin of envy.Envy, but there was. She
probably hit about four or five sins, right, yeah, she wasn't.
She didn't not just the one time, right now, she she because she
was would have been jealousy would havebeen one of them, right, jealous

(41:10):
and vs. Jealousy? What what? What are's? Uh, there's sloth,
she did it slowly. There's rage, rage, rage, there's she's
coveting her life. Yeah, right, there's the one where you eat all
the time, gluttony, gluttony.Maybe she was gluttonous too, and didn't
say They didn't say she didn't.She didn't run away because she couldn't.

(41:34):
Uh. Yeah, murder's got tobe one of them, right, yeah.
Yeah, it's been a while sinceI've seen seven. Yeah, it's
covered pretty exclusively in that movie.Well, there's other signs that, uh,
that Yoselin planned all this, includingthe fact that the night of the
murders, she left a bunch oflegal documents behind with her family and included

(41:59):
essentially a sue A side note,she had every intention of killing herself after
her grand presentation, if you will, and just a real lesson. I
feel like all of us learned inthis episode is you can't cut your own
throat and die. No, youjust can't. People have tried for millennia.

(42:19):
You know, there's the exception thatproves the rule. But this girl,
this monster, excuse me, thismonster sliced so deeply that she broke
bones, she damaged her vocal core. She had to be like intubated.
She lived through it. So youknow, people out there thinking about it,
just don't do it. You don'tdo it. I love the way
when she wakes up in a hospital, she just instantly starts blaming them,

(42:42):
just starts complaining, they made mework twenty three hours a week. Yeah,
these asshotas. I have to imaginethat's where the narrative of she did
all of this because she hated Marinaso much. I'm wondering if that's not
where that part of the story wherehe really gets filled in, because it
sounds like once she's on her inher recovery bed, that she's just a

(43:07):
fountain of complaints and you know,excuses, And I feel like that would
have been the time where she hadmaybe said why she was doing what she
was doing. She doesn't really eversay why though she doesn't really know.
But that's again why I feel likemaybe she this is part of like her
just talking to doctors and people inthe hospital. There's there's got to be

(43:27):
and it felt like she was pretendingto be mentally ill. Well that's the
last part of this entire story,is this is the kind of trial and
the argument over whether or not shewas mentally ill. Can you imagine having
to represent this woman? No,Okay, here's something I wanted to bring

(43:50):
up. The person that represents her, did they believe in her? Because
I was listening to that lady talkand I was like, um, she
sounds like she kind of m believer, which was really disturbing to me.
Well, when you are like adefense attorney, and especially if you're like

(44:10):
a state appointed one. Was thata state appointed one that I believe it's
like a public defender. Okay,this is a real tough case to have
to defend. I mean, theidea that she pleaded not guilty but had
also admitted to killing the kids issuch a one too that like, I

(44:31):
just don't know how you defend thatperson. But instead they just tried to
make it seem like she was guilty, not guilty, but I did it.
Yeah, yeah, like that's Iknow, all the evidence that you
have, all the physical evidence,all points to me doing it, and
I did do it, but I'mnot guilty. What's the one? What's

(44:52):
the what's the mental disease where you'relike arrogant and you just believe yourself all
the time no matter what you do. Narcissism is that? Do you think
that's what she actually has? AndI don't think that's I don't think you
can get off on anything being anarcissist extreme version of narcissism. Yeah,
I mean a narcissist would probably bewould probably be angling that the killing was

(45:16):
more to benefit her life as opposedto doing it to ruin someone else's life.
Well, but she was doing itbecause they had what she deserved,
she felt she deserved. Yeah,I mean that's I think you could be
right. There's like a light narcissismat play here. That's that is probably

(45:37):
part of it. What about thisidea that she went and saw a psychologist
of her own volition, like herfamily never told her to do it,
even though she told him that shewas like having visions of the devil following
her at church and they're like,oh, okay, cool, well see
Tuesday, Like you don't need help. But she went and saw a there

(46:00):
you specialized in criminal behavior something absurdlike that, right, which I don't
know how that was the psychologist thatshe found. I think it was just
by mistake that that that was thatwas his expertise. I mean kind of
not right, but you could havebeen like, that's that's why he would
have thought. She would have beenthought off, I'm feeling crazy, I

(46:20):
gotta go see a psychologist. Shegoes and sees a psychologist. He asked
questions that she's not you know,like expecting, right, and that kind
of maybe gives her ideas well,That's what I was wondering, like what
the fuck did this guy tell her? Because he gave her a clean bill
of health, and then she wentand yeah, murdered two children. I

(46:40):
went to a psycho. I goto a psychologist every once in a while,
and I go because I don't goto I go to a therapist rather
than the one that can give youdrugs, because I prefer to not go
the drug way on things. Andand yeah, right, I've seen you,

(47:04):
uh fan knows puzes um, butI always they never I don't remember
them ever judging me, writing medown, just that they just let me
talk. So I didn't understand whatthat was where you got a clean bill
help because they basically just said,yeah, come back, you know,

(47:24):
come back. They could have justbeen asking that. They never said go,
yeah, no, you're fine,go. They never say that that's
true, although they they do sayin this case that there was just never
a follow up appointment. But thatdoes sound a little a little strange to
me too. Most therapists want wantthat next watch a business. Yeah,

(47:46):
yeah, that's true. That clicheis always we're out of time. Yes,
we don't have time to talk aboutyour murderous impulses, but we'll save
that for next week your love ofnice. Let gets back to that next
week. Yeah, it did.The I thing is just it just grosses
me out and just terrifies me.The person, Yeah, the person that

(48:07):
can kill somebody with a knife isfucking way more like just evil than anybody
that shoots somebody with a gun,pushes anybody. You have to very rarely
is it one knife staff, right, and just to be able to feel
that over and over and over again, and the feel of something being cut

(48:30):
is just that's when. Yeah,that's that's evil. That is completely evil,
but a good person to have aThanksgiving because they will make your turkey
carved. Yeah. If you everneed to vent a potato before you put
it in the microway, I canget it through. Yeah. No,
I agree, And I will saypulling the curtain back a little bit when

(48:52):
we're looking at Sword and Scale episodes, trying to stay away from like Appy
shot Er. Yeah, I meanthere's plenty of episodes that that just there's
enough other circumstances that it's compelling enoughstory. But generally speaking, when you
want to tell a story about somebodywho's super evil, they are generally committing

(49:12):
a first hand, you know,kind of crime. Yeah, I would
agree that the knife crime is reallycreepy. Also, any sort of like
farming equipment, you know, interestinglike a like an axe, Oh okay,
you know, pretty scary. Thereis this guy in Vancouver that would
kill hookers and feed them to pigswho save that for a Sword in Scale

(49:37):
episode? Do you know about him? That's pretty cool? Yeah, that's
pretty cool. Listen, man,this is my business. I call him
the Hooker Bacon, the Hooker Baconmurders, the Hooker Bacon murders. I'm
wow, oh god, how dowe go from as a seriousness that's stupid?
Like a seconds, we should becommitted. Um, you actually provided

(50:00):
a great line here. I canget us right back unless you have a
thought ahead. You talked about yourhooker Bacon trial murders. This trial.
This trial also had a snappy name. They called it the nanny murder trial.
Now, I'm always interested by thelike name with which we refer to

(50:21):
a horrific incident like this. Obviously, like you know, the OJ trial
or whatever. Nanny murder trial isconfusing to me. I first think a
nanny has been murdered, right,Then I have to do the math that
know a nanny did the murdering,right, And then I just don't even
know if nanny is even the rightway to describe this woman. It's just

(50:42):
a very misleading, just like snappyheadline kind of name. The fake nanny
murder trials is what they should be, yeah, or the Nana Boo Boo
trial. See now, where wereyou in twenty and sixteen? And this
could have been called Boo boo trial. They had to it. Do you
think they just overlooked things? Therehad to be some some hey, that

(51:08):
girl is not right, Like yeah, I mean, I just here's the
thing, and I agree with you. But after doing one hundred and sixty
seven episodes of this Bragger, oneof the things that stands out a lot
is the person that it happens toor that like becomes the killer, is

(51:30):
the killer they you didn't, youwould never know. You would never know
that that person would one day justsnap and do all these terrible things.
That's what makes this whole genre sofucking scary. So you know, if
I had been this has been thevery first episode of Sword and Scale I
ever listened to, I would bethinking, yeah, there had to be

(51:51):
other signs that she was a nutterbefore this went down. But frankly,
I'm not surprised that nobody saw itcoming, because I mean, what was
really wild about this particular case isthat all of this talk about the mental
health all came up after like duringthe trial, right, you know,
there wasn't talk about her being crazyin the lead up to this. It

(52:15):
was only after a legal strategy neededto be formed, right, And now
you get all these witnesses in thesestories and all these things trying to like
quote unquote fill in the blanks,but those blanks are not supposed to be
filled in. With the mental illnessangle. It's kind of single white female
kind of though, right, exceptfor the nanny wants to have the life

(52:37):
of the mom. Yeah, yeah, I can see that. Yeah,
it's the same, the themes oflike jealousy and wanting that to have that
life, but in single white femaleit's noticeable, like that bitch of nuts.
Yeah, but they point out specificallythat Yosselin. Yosselin finished college,

(52:59):
she had several old jobs for youknow, major companies. But what you
could still be crazy is what you'resaying. Well, no, mo,
I'm saying, I don't want towork for this family. I don't work
in too many hours. You hadjobs, you fucking have a college education,
and you had jobs with major companies. Get the fuck out of their

(53:19):
home, Yeah, go do somethingelse. Yeah, Like that's like why
are there? But mom and daddon't know. Mom and dad don't know
that the lie that's been committed onto them by the by the family,
So who knows why she's been letgo, or if she was let go
from these major, major jobs,maybe she was showing signs there of being

(53:45):
a complete fucking lunatic. Yeah,just that just makes it all the more
tragic, you know, And that'skind of what's talked about too. Is
I wish we knew if, infact she was telling her family job for
twenty five hours a week. Yeah, I mean too. Actually I already
have one of those. I dothat on top of my other forty hour
week up the family hearing about thevisions of the black man visiting her at

(54:12):
church and it's the sign of thedevil, and the devil made me do
it. All of that talk thenbecomes part of like this circus of it.
It's not a black man, there'snot a black guy. It's a
guy that's just just a shadow.Yeah, I suppose. But the fact
that they have to bring in alike cultural expert to to talk about it

(54:35):
is all just another layer of thisreally sick fucking thing that Yoselin did.
But it's just putting the whole familythrough this trial. You did it,
right, But isn't that mostly isn'tthat most court cases like it's a show
to try you do the show totry to get away with stuff. I
hate to bring up that Kyle rittenhousething, but you're like his mom took

(54:59):
him to a in different state witha gun, like you know, like
what more do you need? Andthen then then there's a show. There's
a show, there's a show onall these cases. It's sorry, it's
just sort of the way that theAmerican media and I'm intal justice similar works
that way. Rum but I don'tunderstand how they don't crush some of the

(55:19):
show. What but with like Aextra upsetting about this one though, is
when you say that you're guilty ofdoing something or no, she said she
was not guilty, so but butshe also admitted to doing it, like
she shouldn't have been allowed. Iguess again, it gets so complicated.
I was gonna say she shouldn't beallowed to say that I'm not guilty by

(55:40):
reason of insanity. But that's notfair either, because there are instances where
somebody does commit a crime and they'reinsane at the time that it happens.
But it's just a great line.It's just very complicated. How many people
get away with being uh mentally insane, you know, and you get away
with a horrible when you have that, like, nobody very rarely works.

(56:04):
Yeah, so you know, atsome and at some point, I hate
to say it, just because you'rementally ill doesn't mean you do things.
I don't know why I hate tosay that saying that. No, No,
I hate to like, I don'twant people being blamed because they're mentally
ill, of course, I mean, that's that's it seems like such an

(56:24):
excuse for the people that are nottaking responsibility for what they did. Right,
that's you just hit the nail onthe head there, That's exactly right.
It's the using it as a wayto get out from the responsibility of
your actions. That's what's so disturbingabout it, because, I mean it's
been said a bazillion times on alot of true crime shows just because you

(56:44):
have mental illness doesn't mean you're goingto commit some horrible crime. Nobody is
suggesting that. It also seems likethey kind of went with that mental illness
because they said, well, whathappened in her life? Has she ever
had any mental illness? And theysaid her sister died when she was young
and they had to put her onantidepressants, And then they kind of ran
with it from there. Yeah,which antidepressants doesn't mean you're mentally ill,

(57:08):
it means you're depressed. Right,so yeah, and who you know,
I'm pretty sure, you know,being that young, or anybody losing you
know, somebody close from my spouse, a sister or brother, you know,
is gonna be depressed. Nobody's gonnanobody's gonna go, oh well,
let's go to Disneyland now. Yeah. So and if they are, they're
gonna end up on the show,right, That's right. And by the

(57:30):
way, I'm I was very relievedto hear that nobody on the jury bought
the insanity defense, and I wasshocked. Usually there's one personal well you
know, well, I don't thinkthey did not say it was unanimous.
You know, maybe it was,but it was that specific word. I
did not hear that. So whoknows, we could be We could still

(57:52):
be par for the course here andhave one person she may she may have
luck I was talking about a devilfollower. Isn't that weird people that want
to do jury duty. It isvery strange. If you don't try to
get out of jerry duty. Idon't know if you should be allowed to
be on the jury. I havethe golden ticket now, and so do
you. You work for a truecrime show. You never had the new

(58:15):
jury duty again? Let me shootthese guns there? Yeah, not in
the courthouse. I have for severalyears now. When I get called in
for jury duty, which happened acouple of times, they will ask you
like, what do you do?What's your career? And I'm always like,
I'm a true crime podcast producer.Part of my job is to analyze
cases. Thank you for your time, mister Bondelier. You may leave.

(58:38):
Oh yeah, this episode wasn't thatsad after all because we just found that
out first class. Oh my god, I had no idea use it.
You're welcome. You're from Canada.You don't even get jury duty, do
you? I get them in themail, but I say I'm from Canada,
even though even though I am becominga citizen, I'm green cinted and

(58:59):
I've not trying to become a citizenbecause of jury duty. I mean,
nine times out of ten, youdon't actually get put on a jury or
anything. You just have to bethere for the day, read a book,
and then you're gonna go home.I don't I don't have that kind
of time, but twenty five hoursa week. I definitely the last time
that happened to me. I gotput into like a juror pool room where

(59:19):
they spent like two days going throughjury selection. It was actually for a
murder trial. I swear it wasdid you write down like maybe we should
cover this one? No? Now, it was like, if I remember
correctly, it was like a gangmurder kind of a thing. So it
was I didn't really fit the swordin scale theme so much, but I
totally played the card. And Ialso work for a show hosted by Mark

(59:40):
Garigus, very famous defense attorney calleda reasonable Doubt, and the attorney was
like, I've worked with mister Garigusbefore. And the other attorney just saw
that and was like, your excuse. It was great And if you don't
mind, if you are listening tothis show, I encourage you if you
could call for jury duty, tellthem listen to true crime podcasts, and

(01:00:00):
if you text us on or sendus a tweet that makes it even more
Yeah, and just tell them listen. I spent a lot of my time
analyzing cases. I don't believe Ican be impartial. I would think if
I was in a room with people, I would be trying to explain to
them my logic and reasoning, andI analyze case one sixty seven and gave

(01:00:21):
my opinion. Yes, right throughthis set of tweets and the date on
it. There you go. You'rewelcome. You're welcome everybody. What a
great way to start the new year. Huh. I don't know why I
was hanging Happy Birthday, Happy NewYears? Oh man? Hey, by
the way, have you been toa birthday party since since the pandemic?
I have outdoors very distance. Wasthere a cake? Uh? Yeah,

(01:00:46):
I think there was no candles.No one's blowing. So I went out
for dinner with some friends and theybrought me a cake afterwards with a candle
on it, Like, huh interesting. So I just pulled the candle out
and turned out. Very smart ofyou like that. Nobody know there's a
pat Oh it's Orange County. Well, let's wrap this episode up here,

(01:01:09):
now that we're smiling and celebrating yournow that we're giggling, yosselin life in
prison, no possibility of parole.Good, thank god. She should just
be she should really, they shouldjust finish the job on the throat that's
what I think, but it's notup to me. Unfortunately, we do
hear a clip of Mike reading herquote unquote apology. I hated it,

(01:01:34):
which very quickly. Oh you know, do we play because I just don't
feels it. Seconds? Yeah,twenty seconds of it. Right. I'm
very sorry for everything that happened.But I hope no one goes is this
hers or Mike's. I hope thatno one goes through what I have gone

(01:01:54):
through. So many people wished meall the worst. My life is in
the hands of God. I askfor a great deal of forgiveness from God,
from Marina, from Kevin. Iwish my family. I told my
family I did not feel well.People are so mean me. Executio didn't

(01:02:16):
even bring up the victims. It'sjust I mean we I feel like there's
been a few different categories of apologiesthat we hear on this show. Most
of them are insincere, but veryrarely are they ones where they just flat
out ignore the fact that anyone otherthan them is being victimized in the scenario.

(01:02:37):
I hope nobody else is ever laidfor work. Basically, what you
said, she said, nothing aboutwhat you did, right and again.
I'm it was good to hear thatthe jury didn't buy any of the bullshit.
And like you said, the lawyeris up there. She kind of
You kind of have to believe yourclient, not know how you do it.

(01:02:58):
Yeah, it's tough when you're whenyou're out with garages the other day,
ask the other day. So whenyou're with him again, ask him
how he takes a if Kenny takea case that he doesn't believe them,
how he does it? Well,if you look at his list of clients,
I think you would agree problem awhole lot as soon as I said
away, Hey, huh yeah,yeah, he makes a lot of money.

(01:03:21):
It's a very very nice guy tome. I will say that if
my membre accused of murder, he'sgonna be my guy. Oh man,
God, that's for sure. Don'tget accused of murder. Because I like
doing their show. I like doingit too. And hey, listener,
if you like listening to it,please subscribe, Please tell a friend,
give us a nice rating, giveus a nice review, interact with us.
Feel free to send us a tweet. Be nice though, and we're

(01:03:43):
catching up. We're catching up.Oh yeah, shows, we're gonna be
like neck and neck with the showsvery soon, I think. So.
I mean, we put out twiceas many shows, let's be honest,
and then, uh, you know, depending on the release schedule, maybe
we won't be taking as many breaks. But we're gonna we're gonna catch right
up. And I really enjoy whenMike comes in and discusses the cases with
us because we get his feelings andknowledge that we won't ever get. And

(01:04:08):
you guys get and get them too. So make sure you tell him Mike
to come back on this. Yeah, we'd love to have him back on.
Mike, come back and see us. Ducky, come on, Mike,
come on, Ducky, come playwith us. Mike forever and ever
and ever shining reference for you.I gotta pee, all right, you
set him a bit, both ofyou. All right, guys, thank

(01:04:29):
you all for listening. We'll beback very seeing with another episode. Follow
Ian on Twitter at sir Ian Bag. I'm on Twitter at Matt Fondelier.
We also host other shows. Ihave a show called The Watercooler I do
with my friends. Ian has ashow several shows I got around the Bag.
You can get that on YouTube,or you can get that on the
wherever you get your podcast and listento it. Three friends dropped by virtually,

(01:04:51):
and they play a little game andone of them becomes my BFF by
the end of it. The otherhas never heard from again. That was
left down Nicold, Thanks you guysfor listening. Happy New Year, New
Year. Don't be a douchebag sortof scale. Reward is a production of

(01:05:15):
Incongruity Media. If you enjoyed theshow, leave us a five star rating
and a glowing review. No criticismplease, it hurts our feelings. Be
sure to tell your friends about us, but not your family or co workers
because I'll think you're weird. Okay, that's it until next time. Don't
be a douchebag in them was ended.