Episode 170

Kevin Bacon is dead. No, not that Kevin Bacon (though Matt and Ian discuss the actor as well). This episode also features one of the most shocking case updates we've ever uncovered, and a mindblowing tangent about robo-drivers.

Episode Transcript

(00:05):
Welcome to Sword and Scale Rewind withyour hosts Matt Fondelier and Ian Bag.

(00:39):
Hey, what's up, everybody?Welcome back to another episode of Sword in
Scale. Rewind that podcast about yourother favorite podcast, Sword in Scale.
I'm one of the hosts. I'vewritten a couple episodes, but above all
else, I just love Sword andScale. My name is Matt Fondelier.
Very excited you're here with us,and very excited to be joined once again
by my buddy I Bag. Heyabout it? Howai about Hey? I'm

(01:02):
doing good. This is technically likeour Christmas episode. I know it comes
out in like January, but thisstory takes place on Christmas Eve, the
Magical Christmas Story. Who doesn't lovemurder on Christmas Eve? Yeah, he's
screwed up. That's supposed to bean Easter story. Yeah, that's true.
They got the dates backwards. Whatthe hell's having a baby on Christmas
not having murder? Well, maybewe'll get into some of our Christmas traditions

(01:25):
because it factors into the story alittle bit. Okay, you know one
of the victim, let's show upto Christmas morning. That was a big
flag. What's your Christmas tradition puttingon a leather skirt and drone of fuck,
I'm wearing them. But it's thetwenty first century. If we all
have different traditions, Okay, yougotta respect them all. He hung them

(01:46):
upside down like it was hunting.Oh, terrible, brutal story. It's
a brutal story. But let's let'slet's let's start off things easier. Sure,
I was on a plane the otherday. I'm pretty sure somebody was
wearing one of Michael Boudet's shirts thatdon't comply shirt. Really yeah, and
I want to I want to,I want to go up and say hey.
But then he didn't have his nosein his mask, so I just

(02:06):
like, I can't talk to thatguy. He was kind of comparing.
He was kind of good, allright, I'll keep my mouth in you
motherfucker's When you're on a plane likethat, do you ever get harassed by
the stewardess is to pull it upa little bit, because I've heard,
oh yes, I've heard from peoplelike I was just trying to take a
nap, you know, and thenthey woke me up and told me to
put my mask up. Um,A guy beside me the other day he

(02:29):
was his mask fell off and hewasn't wearing it and they tapped him.
Yeah, like but he was asleep, like it was mean and it was
dark and he sat up and he'slike, I don't know where it is.
I'll get you one. She won't. Wow. Yeah, which is
fair enough. I just I justcrank up the air because apparently that's the
best thing done not get COVID isjust crank up the air. Oh,
really make sure it's not going.And I just I wear the airflow.

(02:51):
Yeah. I wear an N ninetyfive Matt k N ninety five masks when
I'm when I'm flying, and Ifeel safe on the planes. As far
as what they said, the waythe air circulates in a plane is the
way it should circulate in most buildingsnow, So I just sort of circulate.
I just sort of feel like wewould be hearing about the just funeral

(03:12):
after funeral of airline stewardess in airlinepop. Yeah they're doing but you don't
even you don't hear that. Yeah, they get they get it, but
it's it's not as as uh I'mand I'm guessing it to work, you
have to be uh vaccinated so that'swhy, you know, vaccinating makes it
makes it much weaker the the whole. When I got it, I was
vaccinated, so yeah, made itmuch easier. So see, I'm not
so great in that scenario because whenI'm on an airplane, at least a

(03:37):
couple of times I've been on aplane since all of this started, you
cry the whole time. I know, I am nursing a water bottle and
eating pretzels. I'll do it thewhole flight. Yeah, I'll do it
the whole fucking sucking on a pretzelfirst two hours. I mean, I
cut off your blood pressures. Cryingbecause it's just been eating so much salt.
Yeah, exactly, exactly. Um, but yeah, I don't know.

(04:00):
I just you don't like wearing themasks. It's not really, it's
not nobody. Nobody likes it.I just don't. I'm just like,
whatever, what are you gonna do? Is just kind of like that thing.
I'm like, what, I'm respectful. I don't enjoy seat belts.
Yeah that's true. I listen,I'm respectful about it. I'm not gonna
be like, I'm not gonna bethat guy. But I'm also gonna go
ahead and enjoy that pretzel for alot longer than normally would. Sorry,
I just am I can't help it. I think that's fair. I I

(04:23):
just I just people losing their shitis just when I'm worried about lately.
Yeah, I mean like there's toomany I'm just like, ah, there's
too many people. Just I don'tknow if it's people that don't usually can't
afford to fly. Yeah, toocheap is what's It's so bizarre? Why
the fuck like people bringing on theirown alcohol onto a plane. I'm like,

(04:46):
how the where the fuck are yougetting the alcohol? Because I can't
get my hand lotion through the fuckingthrough through through security, So how are
you getting a bottle of tequila there? Well, let me tell you something
that they're called traveler bottles and arelow enough that they can go through the
metal detector and they're less than likea tube of toothpaste or whatever. I
mean, I've just heard that youcould bring travelers onto an airplane and talk,

(05:11):
Yeah, what what do you drink? What are you? Um?
I think on a plane? Mygo to in the real world would be
like a gin? Uh really?Oh hell yeah, love me some gin?
My good surprised you're not on oneof these fucking nine one one calls
that they're making. Yeahs say thingme and my loather skirt on a plane.
I'm thinking in terms of my mixers, and all I got are the

(05:33):
sodas that they're going to offer me. So I'm sticking to either some Jack
Daniels to put into some coke,or I'll just take some vodka to put
into some orange juice. That's ifI'm on a morning flight. You know,
just really to think about it.It's vitamin C. You gotta get
it up there. Yeah, exactly, good for you. You're not a
big drinker or are smoker or anyof that stuff. Well, my problem
is my my recovery time is.I used to go hard when I was

(05:57):
younger, so my recovery time nowisn't as good, and I work too
much to be able, so Ineed I need at least three days for
one for those to be hungover andthen two more to come out of the
clouds back. Yeah. No,I feel that more and more every day.
But I enjoy it, and Ido enjoy it, and it's just
I don't want Some of some ofmy friends, like were the same age
and they're still going hard, andI'm like, you must be shit at

(06:20):
work. That's all like a thing. Yeah, that's good. Yeah,
I like to think I'm okay atwork? You Okay, how often?
How many days do you drink?I feel like a doctor. Let's not
talk about that. I'd rather talkabout murder. Okay, let's get back
to murderer. Let me answer yourquestion by saying, I host a show

(06:41):
about murder, and I think alot about some really dark things in I
need to get I need to clearmy mind. Yeah. Um, this
is a great episode, though itis another headline grabbing story about the murder
of Kevin Bacon. No, notthat Kevin Bacon. Three three degrees from
Kevin Bacon. Yeah, two guysthat got away and then he didn't.
Now. I felt an obligation tocompile my list of the top five Kevin

(07:05):
Bacon movies. Oh, very nice. I don't know if you're a fan
of the man, Okay, Iam. I do love Kevin Meagan.
Okay, this is my opinion thefive best Kevin Bacon movies. Number five,
Apola thirteen, Okay, take thatone. Number four, Hollow Man
sci fi movie where he invisible Manturns to the Invisible Rapists. Yeah.

(07:28):
Yeah, great movie number three,The River Wild with Meryl Streep about a
roboting kidnapping. Yeah. Classic numbertwo Footloose. Okay, this is the
classic probably definitely definitely his biggest movie, right, definitely his biggest movie.
I would also say, if youwant to just google Kevin Bacon Angry Dance,

(07:49):
you'll watch the greatest three minutes everfilmed, which is the Warehouse Dance
from Footloose. It's incredible. Ohbizarre when dancing gets angry. Yes,
and the number one Kevin Bacon moviewith a bullet tremors. Oh, Trammers
is good, excellent movie about giantsnakes that live underground and eat people.
All these movies. You should watchhim if you haven't seen him. Folks,

(08:11):
so they have welcome. Does hehave to be the star of the
these movies? No House. Ohhe's pretty great in that. Yeah.
That was his like film debut.Yeah, thank you sir. Yeah,
that's pretty good. Yeah, it'sI think it's one of his favorite.
I mean, he's an incredible actI think everybody in that one is fantastic.
Yeah, that's a good one.I should have included Animal House damn

(08:33):
it, which one would you takeout? Your reaction to Hollo Man wasn't
what I hoped, so maybe outyou know why because I didn't see it.
Oh you didn't see that? Yeah, I remember it, but I
didn't see it. It's uh,it's one of those movies that's so bad
it's good. It's about I rememberthe scientists who discovers the ability to become
invisible but takes a very dark turnand decides to use it for like raping

(08:56):
people like you would not think it, especially with Kevin Bacon. You think
he's a nice guy. He hasnot a nice guy in that movie.
No he is. He is gettingback for for what's his face, stealing
all his money in that movie.But anyway, we should probably talk about
the actual This isn't the Kevin Baconhour. Well, a couple of weeks

(09:16):
ago you talked about You're I don'tknow if it was a real case or
not, the hooker Bacon murders orsomething, And that's all I can think
about when I was listening to this, And that's funny. Yeah know in
Canada and it's kind of the samething. It was a sexual guy that
was picking up hookers and after he'dhe'd keep him as slaves are bitten,
then kill him and feed him tothe pigs. Yeah. Oh wow.

(09:37):
He had a pig farm just outsideof Vancouver, so all that bacon was
going into Vancouver. Oh no,yeah, that's grosser bacon. Well,
this story takes place in the remotecountryside, and I've decided I'm never I'm
never going to live outside of acity. Every one of these stories that

(09:58):
starts like covered road outside where ittakes an hour and a half for the
nearest fucking ambulance to get to you, You're just asking for trouble people.
So when I was listening to this, I was like, oh, it's
right next to that one case thatwe like. I put them right into
the next property. Yeah, likeone door. Oh yeah, basically what
I did. And can I bringup right now the best audio we've ever

(10:22):
had on any of these shows,so clear, so many great voices,
Like one one of the witnesses,you like, is he right from the
weather Channel? His voice was sogood it was crazy. Yeah. I
think there are some very unique twistsin this story. There's some great twists.

(10:43):
I do love the opening where there'sthe sort of double nine one one
calls of these two scenarios that areyou have to go back and listen to
it twice because you're like, isthis the same phone call? Right?
Luckily for you, dear listener,you have us here and we can just
play you clip. Yeah and helpif you listen to our show first and
then go back with that's the wayto do it. Yes, we've been

(11:05):
promoting it wrong. Oh time.I have a few clips of the first,
the initial nine one one called thenervous caller, Hello, nine one
one, How can I help you? Hey, let me play this for
you. We got a lot totalk about. We're gonna I can't believe
where I am. I don't know, like I never ever anything like this

(11:28):
happened. I don't very drugs movie, I don't know. I will up
in the fucking basement. Okay,embolasement with a love thing on I am
my ankle and I cut it witha bunch of knights that I have on
my French Okay, do you haveanything on you right now? To me,
I don't know about you like Iwanted. Part of me was having
trouble believing this guy. It reallysounded like like a Alpaccino monologue. I

(11:54):
woke up in a basement, okay, and I had this knife follow me,
Like, are you in a Tarantinomovie? That's what? Right now?
How are the nine one one operatorkind of had your attitude all right?
Then? Hens fantastic, even theeven the freaking basement. Excuse my
French. Yeah, wow, wayto get crazy. I wake up after

(12:16):
somebody's trying to kill me. I'mnot going fricking that's true. That son
of a bitch trying to kill me. We gotta get the fuck out of
your fuck your French people. Idid think it was terrifying. The idea
of being like lost in the woods, where you've escaped the captor's house and
now you don't know if you're kingback toward the captor's house or away like
that, to me, is isso terrifying. M And then to have

(12:41):
another nine one one call come inthat's almost the exact same situation, but
that time the person ends up atsomebody else's house, ends up at somebody
else's house who won't reveal his ownaddress, which I thought was sort of
a weird play. Yeah, like, I get it if somebody came up

(13:03):
to my house all bloodied and flippedout. I don't know if I would
necessarily be like eager to tell himwhat my address is so he can convey
it to the people on the otherside of that phone, right, But
at the same time, I mean, that person was desperate for hell.
I didn't understand why he the guywhose house he showed up, didn't call

(13:28):
the cops. Yeah, well maybein that moment because he was like,
was on the phone with the police, Like the guy who escaped was on
the phone. He was standing inthe doorway. But you're you're right.
I mean, you would think Iwouldn't stand there, I'd be calling the
cops. He would think the doorwould still be closed. Yeah, there's
a guy at my door and hehas got a night here, and he's

(13:48):
bleeding and he's yelling. Now thisguy from sorry, I want to go
back for a second. Here.The first the first guy I skipped over
this part um it was on abusiness trip. According to him, he
was on his business this trip gettingoff the bus. A couple of things
about his story that I thought werekind of crazy, which was that he
was being confined by metal chains thathad leather straps, which to me seemed

(14:13):
to sort of defeat the purpose ofthe magical chain. And there was a
butcher knife nearby, which, again, if you're being held captive, you
would think that you wouldn't leave aknife nearby, unless you unless I'm the
murderer, because the murderer wasn't aroundright, correct, So he'd like falling

(14:35):
asleep or something. Yes, SoI got him strapped up, and I
just happened to putting a knife down, and I go to do something else
and he wakes up and he sorry, I'm nowhere near the microphone as I'm
falling backwards, because I was heSo what I was saying was the murderer
gets them all strapped in upside down, he falls asleep. Now I gotta

(14:56):
go get my other stuff, soi'd go away. I had just put
my knife down. He's able toreach it, kind of like a comedy
of errors, even though it isn'ta comedy. Yeah, right, and
then he's able to cut himself outof it, which I just didn't.
I was like, wow, thatknife being upside down and be able to
cut yourself out of that, it'spretty pretty talented. Yeah, that's pretty

(15:16):
tough. Like that's very circu tosola shit going on there. Yeah,
I count it. Do you thinkthat this guy, this killer had like
part of the thrill was letting themgo m Like you wouldn't even think of
that. I would think after thefirst time, like you would change your

(15:37):
security protocol a little bit, likethe fact that it happened again a month
later, like you're just fucking you'reterrible at this man, You're terrible at
holding people hostage? Or do youkind of get off on it a little
bit? Because that was the otherpart of this second scene is that the
killer then pulls up in his cardressed in a kilt, saying that,

(15:58):
oh, I was just running himdown because I wanted to get he's got
my outfit. He's got my outfit. I need to get that back.
We need that for my play thatI'm putting together. Yeah, I don't
know, Yeah, sort of.But it's interesting that he chased him down
the second time. On the firsttime, he didn't chase him down,
right, So it's one of thosethings where you hear about a lot.

(16:21):
Is he getting bolder, you know? Right? So I guess it's got
to be a little bit of that. But I don't know. Maybe it's
maybe it's the thrill of the chase. Here's a knife. If you can
get it, you can get outof here. Yeah, that's all I'm
saying. Guys, creepy as shipthough. Everything about this dude is just
gross, supergross. The fact thatneither of these gentlemen press charges is another

(16:48):
very interesting, interesting fact for thebeginning parts of this story. Obviously,
if you have some shame of yourlifestyle, you don't want to get out.
I guess I get why you wouldn'twant to press the charges, but
I would think that that experience youhad would be Okay, let's horrific enough.

(17:10):
Let's stop right here because I rememberthis part now, right, Let's
remember the first guy's voice. Yeah, I'm going to play a little go
ahead, play a little bit ofit. I'm a volunt your coin advocated.
I came here to help on theCFC reading and I was supposed to
remember at the bus station I metthis guy. I'm by you shooting it
on me. I don't know.We went out to the car and drops.
We went to the Sha Han soda. I woke up in the patient

(17:33):
and obviously drugged me. Okay,when I get that trooper close to you,
I'm gonna need you to put thatbutcher knife down though or back to
auto true scooting out sign in anotherwards. Okay, your officer is in
no danger. I've been a play. You don't need this throw it and
the wards. But but I justdon't want to on you. Is there
anything else on you at all?Just I don't even know if I have
my cigarettes. Okay, I don'thave a bag or anything else. I

(17:57):
want my bag nice, Okay,all right, I can't believe Darryl does
what you know? Come on,that's his conversation. Other thing. People
know it's lifestyle, sure, yeah, yeah, and there's nothing wrong with
it. I'm not saying there's anythingwrong way. I'm just like, people
know your lifestyle, so why wouldyou not press charges? Why would you

(18:18):
not? All right now, I'mgonna blow your mind right now, Mo,
I can't believe you said that duringthis episode. Sure, it was
a really bad transition, wasn't it. Woh, here's what I'm gonna say.
Should I hang upside down? Usuallyusually they're updates and I do them
at the end of the episode.But I have an update to this story
that really completely floored me. Okay, and I want to share it with

(18:41):
you now because it's related. It'srelated to what we're talking about. Okay,
So here's the deal, you guysknow because you've already listened to the
actual episode of Sword and Scale.But at the very end of the episode,
Mike suggests that the businessman that we'vejust been hearing clips from Honey was
going to file like a civil suitagainst the killer, and that is how

(19:06):
the episode ends with there are goingto be some legal proceedings that this guy's
going to have to deal with becauseof this story. Okay, here's where
it blows my mind. This wasnot included in the Sword and Scale episode
because when you hear this it,well, I'm just gonna I'm gonna stop
teasing. Here we go. Carlson. That's the guy's last name, James

(19:30):
Carlson. Carlson's suit states that hetraveled by bus from New York to Michigan,
specifically to take part in an acknowledgeBDSM encounter with Latunsky that's the murderer,
after meeting at the time his husbandJamie Arnold, and then Latunski through
Facebook. So let me pause myown reading here. So this encounter began

(19:53):
with James Carlson the businessman meeting theex husband, and the ex husband said
he wasn't into that kind of stuff, right, so saying like I can't
deal with this lifestyle. Yea.More so they're saying he did have part
of it, or he was partof it when lun or when Carlson arrived,

(20:15):
that husband had already moved out,oh before the inc But he was
originally going to meet with the husbandand meet with both men. But when
he got there found that the husbandor is now an ex husband. He's
not there anymore. That's not that'show long. That's how long it takes
to take a bus from New Yorkto Michigan. Yeah, he's able to

(20:37):
move out of the play. That'show long it takes exactly. All right,
Well, I'm still not even notthe freakiest part here, get ready.
Carlson also claimed that Latunski quote hunghim upside down naked and role played
pig and butcher while performing sex actsthat got out of hand and that's when
he got scared and ran. Okay, so I thought that was disturbing too,

(20:59):
Still not the most During part ofthis, Carlson called police, which
we heard he had the conversation withthe police. The police dropped him off
at a nearby gas station, wherehe called Mark Latunsky. Not only were
no charges filed at the time,but with no money and nowhere to go,
Carlson returned to Latunsky's house for aweek and continued to participate in b

(21:26):
DSM sex acts with Latunsky until hisreturn bus ticket to New York was valid.
What what in the living fuck ishappening in? How insane is that?
Okay, he went back for aweek and didn't get murdered, went

(21:47):
back for a week, didn't getmurdered. But the reason that he I
can't even finish my sentences right now, Like the reason he stayed with him
was because he was waiting for thatbus ticket home, didn't have anywhere else
to go. What kind of businessthis man? Is this? What are
we talking about? Business's not abusiness man, but you're not a business
man. I bring it down?How he How hard is it detained change
a bus ticket? Yeah? AndI mean we heard the panic in this

(22:12):
guy's voice. Yeah. Yeah,he went back to that guy's house for
a week and stayed with him.Look, I was kidding about the pagan
butcher come on home. Does hesay what happened to him? There?
Was he abused more? Or that'sthat's that part of this Why is he
suing him? That's a great questionknowing all this part, Yeah, what

(22:33):
what's what's he suing him for?Like? Can you sue somebody for these
four I mean, I don't evenhave it written down here, but it
was for like the holding him captiveand all that stuff. Sounds like somebody's
taking advantage of something bad that happenedafterwards and using it in there. All
right, there's gonna be a couplemore updates at the very end of the
episode. But that part, likethat recolored my viewing of the entire opening

(22:56):
of this episode, because I reallyfelt really bad for this guy. Yeah,
now I kind of feel less badfor him. I know, I'm
not supposed to victim blame on theshow, but that's but he wasn't really
a victim. He didn't he justgot he got tipped upside down and got
away. There was actually a victimin this story. Later on. You
know what's funny is I as soonas Mike brought up that he had patents

(23:18):
out, Yeah, this is thekiller we're talking about. Yeah. Yeah.
I was like, oh, there'sgonna be financial rep Oh that's interesting.
I did not think about that angleat all. Yeah, I probably
has a lot of money to us. Yeah, so, because usually people
don't have a lot of money totheir name when their murders or when whatever.
I just but as soon as Iheard patents, I was like,

(23:38):
oh, he's got constant money comingin. Yeah, he definitely has plenty
of time for this hobby of his. Yeah. Um. Also learning that
the sexy game was called uh,when I say something pagan butcher, then
I start to think he this washis dreamboat. He actually had someone whose

(24:00):
name was Bacon. Oh my god. I didn't even think about that right,
Like, now this is why thishappening. This story is incredible.
Oh my god. I wonder ifhe was like today's day, today's the
day. I wonder if that's whyI killed him. I mean, it's
really and I wonder appropriate to laughabout it, But I mean, hippie

(24:21):
could be. How badly was Idon't remember in the episode did they say
how badly he was butchered? Like, is there anything any chance it could
have been a mistake? His ballswere cut off? He ate the balls
oh man, who doesn't Rocky Mountain. That's a hell of a slipping fall.
That's just a mistake. It's onefantastic slipping slipping fall. Oh I

(24:41):
cut off the ball better. Ohmy god, I didn't know. It
doesn't say anything about being uh beingbeing being making a cannibal. Yeah,
I did this episode. I didn't. How did I miss that? They
definitely talking aboum though. Shit,I did not make that part up.
That is said. I didn't sayhis balls, and it did. Ian,

(25:02):
I'll find the fucking clip. Don'tmake me find the clip. I
will. I wonder if my dogwas barking when I missed that, and
that's what he Yeah, I guesshe didn't do anything. Well, I
listened to him. I walk mydog sometimes and so he got distracted.
Yeah, yeah, no, hehe hung him upside down. He would
have loved me, Ian bag.He stabbed him a bunch and cut off

(25:25):
his testicles so he could eat them. And then he went to a holiday
party. I remember the holiday partywith that husband, with the guy that,
theoretically, based on the other storyI heard, could have been there.
I was like, I think,was I wonder if he brought an
order a play the balls. Yeah. Oh, oh my god. He
has a new meaning to hanging ballsfrom the Christmas tree. He put this

(25:49):
funny little sack on my tree andI thought it was I thought it was
supposed to be Sada's presence, butinstead it was Kevin's Bacon's bacon. Oh.
If you're still listening to the show, thank you, We love you.
Send us a TWEETE tell us yourfavorite bacon Dick. I want to

(26:11):
talk a little bit more about thiscrazy guy at the center of this episode,
Mark Lutunsky, who his Facebook pagewas not under his real name,
it was under oligos Kai Lucas.He said that he's a straight arrow,
a chemist and an experimentalist, andhe loves the leather killed. I also

(26:34):
found it interesting that he's posed inseveral pictures with food cleverly covering his genitalia.
Was just gonna say, just likean Austin power. It's clearly what
that was in homage to yeah um. But it is yet another story where
he is just time after time ofhim getting in trouble with the law,

(26:56):
being ordered by the courts to undergo mental evaluations, and he's not taking
his meds like it's just fired froma job because he wasn't taking his meds.
Right, Yeah, so you're justlike, well, what how is
this guy acting out before? BecauseI don't think many jobs would notice you're
not taking your meds, So you'vegot to be acting out like yeah,

(27:18):
like doing like paranoid screams and stuff. Yeah, well, we do hear
that he had a lot of psychologicalissues diagnosed with depression, anxiety, paranoid
schizophrenia, borderline personality traits, allthese things like a sweetheart. Yeah.
It is interesting though that you hearabout all these different diagnoses and then you

(27:40):
always have to give the like caveatof just because you have those things doesn't
mean that you're going to hang peopleupside down and get their balls off and
trying to get nothing to do withit. But that happens to be this
story this guy. Can I goback to his Facebook profile? Yeah?
Do you think this? And doyou think we have to get rid of

(28:02):
names on the internet if you joingrinder? If I joined Grinder, do
I have to use ian bag?You're just asking about the anonymity of the
idea, Well, it gives itgives people um confidence to do horrible stuff.
Yeah, yeah, I don't.I mean, I don't know if

(28:26):
I mean, listen, I metmy girlfriend who's now my wife. I
was gonna say, I thought youwere marriage son of m Richard. You're
pretty ballsy bringing that out. Imet my girlfriend who is now my wife
in the era before the swipe apps, right, So I don't know if
would that be Match dot com that'slike Tinder is like the really popular one,
the one I did. Yeah,yeah, exactly. I didn't do

(28:48):
Match. It was Plenty of Fishwas one of the ones that I was
on. It's not even how Imet her. I met her at a
party, like a Plenty of Fishparty. It was a fishing party.
It's not a fishing party. Um. But my guess My point was,
I don't know if I seem toremember on the dating site you kind of
had to put your real name.But I don't know if do you.
I don't know. I don't knowif you do though, like I mean

(29:10):
a name if you're gonna like poston a news article, you don't.
But I I guess, though,how the hell are they going to prove
it? My name's fucking fishy mcdickduck. Oh shit, that's my dating.
I always knew you're from Eastern Europeanfish duck or whatever. I don't
even know what I said, Butyou're right, you could totally lie about

(29:30):
your name. I think you should. I think you should have to put
put your real name. How dothey prove that? But like the license,
yes, when you first sign up. So if if I'm on Apple,
I have to put my license in, yeah, and everything from there
goes from there. There's always gonnabe the like cheap dating site though,
Like that's easy. You know,that's why these sites even exist. Like

(29:53):
you're the guys that are going onGrinder, they are just fucking for a
hook up. It's funny when Mikesaid it's like Tinder all my gay friends,
Grinder is nothing like Tinder. Grindersmeeting at a bush at a park
and it comes in your face.Yeah, I mean the name alone implies

(30:14):
many other images and just sparking afire. I was kind of freaked out
to hear though, that on anapp like Grinder, that if you delete
your text of the conversation, thatit gets deleted from the other person's account.

(30:36):
That is wild to me. Yeah. And also again same idea that
if you deactivate your account. Itcan't be reactivated. They have to be
able to do that. In thecase of like a murder, they should
be able to see who creates Yeah, stalking, it seemed a little too
easy to go awry. I guessit's all just under the banner of trying

(30:57):
to be discreet. Now, Iguess. So remember when Ashley Madison was
huge. Oh of course you rememberthat, and then I don't just disappeared
like overnight. Those sites are stillout there though. For sure we've had
guess we've had guests on the Corollashow or like I'm the new spokesperson.
Really oh yeah, for fuck aroundand find out exactly like insert sight here,

(31:18):
Like they're still doing that. Huhwow Wow. But you know,
listen, people have a hard timefinn and love Ian stuff out there.
People say there's plenty of fish,but really there isn't. Mostly crabs.
Oh I'm on fire, Um II back, No, No, I
don't know. I just the wholedating being anonymous. I get it.

(31:45):
I get if you're just trying tofuck around, and you're just fucking around,
right, But I think it givesan opportunity for a bad person to
to slide in and I I don'tknow how you stop that, and I
don't know if it's Yeah, asthe victim, he's saying, Oh,
this could happen, but I'm finewith it. M. You know,

(32:07):
yeah, meaning like that it's outthere. It's just a risk that you
know, it's yeah, it's it'spart of the well, you know how
you have to say when you picka sport, you might get hurt.
H kind of the same thing.Yeah, because he also talks about how
there's like a bunch of hey dothis if this happens now, M.

(32:30):
Yeah, it's talked about a lotmore. Now that's true. I do
think that. And again I'm sortof pairting what's said in the episode.
If you are going to go havesome sort of like indiscreet hookup or a
more discreet hook up, you shouldat least let one person know right where
you're going, especially if you understandthe technology of the app you're using.

(32:52):
But I can I can see hispoint. It's taking a bust to Michigan
from New York. Yeah, that'slike you don't really want to tell anybody
I got I go four states toget some cock. That's what that's saying.
Yeah, um, yeah, again, I don't. But so if
this guy had just like come cleanwith this thing, that's a part of

(33:15):
his life. But if he wentback, there's no way he's coming clean
with it, right, Well,then there's that whole part of him going
back again, which is just soinsane to me. So so, how
could you be so careless? Well? I trying so hard not to say
terrible things. I am. I'mready to try not talk. But is
he a victim if he went backagain? It's not like he was in

(33:37):
love with the side, right,Yeah, you know, I showed up
from Michigan. I couldn't leave him. I was just so we were sorry.
We were entwined for over twenty minutes, you know what I mean?
Sure, I don't know. Idon't and I don't. I don't know
how much I believe it. Ididn't have the money to get back in
my bust, I don't. I'venever seen a bus ticket with a with

(33:59):
a date on it before. Ithought it was like, if there's a
seat, get on, Yeah,just hop on, man, Yeah,
who knows? Man? That fuckingflips me out big time. It's weird.
Right, Let's talk about Kevin Bacon. Now this guy, this poor
guy looking for hook up on ChristmasEve and just sounds like a fun love

(34:20):
and he sounds like my gay friends. He sounds like, I'm gonna go
get some cock and then I'll beback a little bit later and we're gonna
have cosmopaltens. You know, I'mgonna have so much fun editing clips of
the show. And I got Igot so much dirt on you, now,
my god, so many good clipsthat I was gonna say it's gonna
say that part. I'm like,Okay, remind me to ask you afterwards.

(34:45):
I want clips. I want theclips to be able to put on
my on social media to advertise theshow. I'll give you access. But
Kevin Bacon doing this Christmas Eve hookup, but things have gone wrong.
By the next morning, when Kevin'sfamily has their big Christmas breakfast and Kevin

(35:07):
is nowhere to be seen, itsounds like it's gone wrong within like half
an hour of him arriving. Yeah, he saw the guy's name was Kevin
Bacon, and that was like chump, chump, yep. I'm curious,
do you have any Christmas morning traditionsin your family that you're gonna have you
ever hooked up with anybody from theinternet, Well have you back in the

(35:30):
day? Look at you? Ohmy god? But it was it was
dial up internet, so you knowyou're safe. That's good because by the
time the message got there, sodid you like you know? Um,
Christmas Christmas? Uh, we tryto go to a movie on Christmas Day

(35:50):
every Yeah. We love to goto a movie on Christmas Day. Um
we haven't last year, of course. Um we also we um we walk
around the neighborhood with our dogs onthe twenty fourth and see all the lights.
That's fun, I do. Ihated it as a kid. I
just enjoy because we take a drinkand we go right. So yeah,

(36:14):
yeah, basically that. Yeah,you dress your dog of a costume.
Um. No. For the Christmascard, every year, I come up
with something different. So this year. This year we board my sister in
law and brother in law's kids anduse them as our own family. That's
good. That's good for our Christmascard this year and last year it was

(36:36):
the dogs. I can't remember wherethe dogs are doing, but we usually
it's just the dogs. Nice.Yeah, that's good. Yeah. My
family does a big Christmas breakfast aswell. So I felt I could relate
to this moment that happened in thisepisode of having the big breakfast and a
guest not showing up. Isn't itWhen it's a big tradition and somebody doesn't
show up, you know something's notgood. Oh sure, especially something like

(37:00):
Christmas Morning. By the way,confused listener, Yes, I am Jewish.
My family celebrates both. I wasn'tgoing to bring it up. Yeah,
I know. There's there's definitely acouple fans out there who ripping up
my Jewish card right now. They'reripping it up. They're saying, how
dare you, sir? Just tolet the other Jewish people know he enjoys
Eastern much more. Woo. There'sanother mystery surrounding this case that happens in

(37:24):
this moment of Christmas Morning, whichis that the car of Kevin was found
parked in a convenience store parking lotwith all of his belongings, including his
phone. Now they were able toget the conversations from his phone. Thank
god, those texts weren't deleted,which you would think that Latunsky guy would

(37:45):
have deleted the text and that wouldhave been game set match. But the
mystery is why were all the belongingsin the car. Did Kevin take an
Uber to the house from an undisclosed location or did he drive the car
to Marks and then Mark moved thecar later? I think from the conversation

(38:08):
we had with not we, butthe conversation Mike has Mike didn't happen.
But the conversation with the guy thatdidn't meet up with Yeah, I say
he was parked there and probably washeaded off to something afterwards. You know,
you're just going to hook up,and was headed off to something afterwards

(38:28):
and for whatever reason, and weknow now it was part of the kink,
was showing up without knowing where youwere, knowing anything, showing up
from New York on a bus.Yeah, so there was something. There
was something in the kink like that, you know. But why no phone?

(38:49):
That's the part that bothers me.Maybe was it just like the cruelest
of fate that he also just happenedto have forgotten his phone in the car.
Maybe like just getting into the Uber. I don't think I got to
reach into my pockets and realize,because immediately the first thing I'm gonna do
when I get into an Uber isgo, I needed distrack myself so I
don't have to talk to this uberdriver. Wow, you were a dick,

(39:10):
So I would immediately be looking throughmy phone and notice that when we're
not on the air, looking tothrow your phone. I see you next
week, jerk. Do you thinkmaybe uh Latunsky? Do you think he
picked him up not send an uber? You know, I like the uber
angle. I think that they wouldhave we wouldn't know that an uber was

(39:34):
called. It would have been onsomebody's phone, right, that's true,
and that that's never say brought up. Yeah, but I don't know if
it's even relevant. I mean,you know it's only relevant. It's just
weird, is what you're saying.Yeah, and trying to determine, like
why the car was left behind.Yeah, I don't know why it would
be at a convenience store. Youknow, it's like a Dollar General store
unless it was I have you everbeen to a Dollar General? I've been

(39:55):
just to a dollar Storely different,aren't they? Okay? What's the dif
Well? Dollar General is basically agrocery store, Like it's almost like wool
Worse or Target or something like that. But they fuck it up by calling
the Dollar General because they started beforethe Dollar Store, where it's like that
was the name of the Dollar General. We're the Dollar General, but it's

(40:15):
not. It's not a dollar store'sAnd I found out this summer by going
to one in Virginia with my wife, and I was like, this place
is fucking fantastic, wow walking around, where as I've been judging for a
long time the Dollar General being theDollars store. Yeah exactly. Yeah,
in my brain I thought it waslike the dollar Store. Yeah, well,
apparently they're changing their name because people, that's how if you're not familiar

(40:37):
with it, that's what you thinkof it as a dollar store. Yeah.
Yeah, so harazing items. Man, So him being parked there isn't
as weird as it would be asit would be if it was a dollar
store. Yeah. So basically he'sparked at a Target or a Walmart.
Sure, so that's not as weirdthat. You're right, that's not as
weird. That makes it feel morelike, let's meet at a public place

(40:59):
first, Yeah, just to Ican make sure you're not a crazy person
who's gonna hang me upside down andcut off my balls and try to eat
him. And then once they've passedthat test, then I'll get into going
to Dollar General. I figure itout. Then, Yeah, so I
think I think he got into hiscar. Yeah no, but still,
why why not the phone? Idon't Yeah, that's what I mean unless

(41:19):
here we go. Now your theory'splaying out because now he is talking,
he's parked his car, left hisphone in the car. He's talking to
Latunsky, and then Latunski just justcome with me, you don't need that.
We and they just gets into thecar, and then he's now really
screwed. So he's basically thinking he'sgoing to be back within an hour.
Maybe he's not even thinking. Wedon't even know. Maybe he is doesn't

(41:43):
even know he's going to his home, right, Maybe he's just like,
let's go for a drive, sojust go, ya think somewhere, and
then they end up back in hishome. See there you go. That's
that's starting a bit. We shouldstart our own police company. So good,
Um, I do don't talk tothe police, for God's sakeey,
And we did two episodes about that. Let's start talking about episodes that we're

(42:04):
gonna have to have a four weekbreak. Yeah, I did think it
was interesting that Uber. They bringup this very interesting point that we were
always told don't get into a carwith strangers, but now there's an app
where you do exactly that. Ithought, Wow, that's pretty brilliant.
Smart people put their kids in ubers. Oh yeah, kids Uber to school
like it used to be. No, I was an Uber driver. Do

(42:29):
you know that? I did notknow that last week? Thankfully not.
But in the lead up to mywedding, I needed to make some extra
money and so I was Uber drivingat night. Money money. Okay,
so you didn't realize what pays forweddings. It's money. Being an Uber
driver was one of the more surrealexperiences of my life, just because of
the people that got in your carfrom the people have gotten into my car.

(42:51):
Did you ever feel not safe?No? I never. That never
happened. But it reminded me becauseI did take a small child at some
point, like this little girl gotout of like a dance studio and I
was like, yeah, my mom, Beverly's account, you just take me
home. And I was like,all right, cool, obviously I'm a
good person. I just Uber thislittle girl. I was like, this

(43:14):
is this is bizarre. This shouldnot be like legal, there should be
certain people that I have to takekids, right, Yeah, you should?
Did you have Is there some sortof criminal record they check for you
to drive. I honestly only rememberlike scanning my driver's license. But do
you remember you do have to likego maybe you get your fingerprints taken.

(43:35):
There was like a little thing thatyou had to do before you got your
sticker for your car. What thatprocess was, I don't remember. It
was not very intense at all,And certainly it's not like you're checking in
with a boss every day before youstart your shift to make sure you're of
the right mind, you know,like I'm here in California, especially pre

(43:55):
pandemic. I mean, I can'teven count how many times I used Uber,
very very convenient service, but itis a little bit freaky when you
kind of take a step back andjust think about what it is you're doing.
Well, even worse, step backand think how little um the big
tech giants think of humans. Likemy face, it's basically Facebook given you

(44:19):
a ride and they don't give ashit about you. Yeah, I mean,
you hear stories all the time ofjust weird confrontations in Uber cars and
stuff. I once was told thatUber started because they were they they were
going to use it in taxis,like that that app was for taxis,
and they went to taxi companies andthey didn't want anything to do with it,

(44:42):
so they just started their own thing. And then the taxi companies got
real pissed, yeah, and gotdestroyed. Yeah. And now with the
total mass, especially again like inLA, it's just, yeah, what
a disaster. So but yeah,can't wait until they're driverless, you know,
I thought that, But then I'vealso seen all of those like weird
thought experiments about like how if arobot driver is about to run over a

(45:06):
person, but they could swerve outof the way, but by doing so
crash the car and kill you.Should the robot car be programed to do
that? Oh my god? Youknow what I mean? This episode just
took Ah, It's like a whichshould it do? What does it do?
And how do you make that judgment? You know, if it's going
to hit two people, let's saya mother and their child, or crash

(45:29):
and kill you, like does it? I don't know if I want that?
Oh my god, two lives areworth more than one. How do
you program it? Ian? Howdo your program does it save you all
the time? You know? Isthat a question you have to answer before
you get into the car? Yeah, I mean, I'm sure that it's
called a waiver. I'm sure there'sgoing to be a lot of those.
I don't know if it's ever gonnawork for that reason alone. Also,

(45:52):
here's the thing too, I lovedriving because of the freeing experience. I
thought you're gonna say power and thepower to to go at my speed literally
right, I drive the way thatI want to. I'll follow the laws
hold over a lot. But youknow, if if there's no cars ahead

(46:14):
of me, I can go fasterthan sixty five. I can go sixty
eight. I go seventy two ifI'm really feeling frisky. But robot driver,
we're never gonna do that. Robotdrivers are only going to go the
speed limit, and it's frankly gonnait's gonna piss me off. You know,
you can, you can kind ofshame and guilt an uber driver to
go a little faster. But ifthere's there's if there's lanes for autonomous cars,

(46:38):
it'll be different because it'll never slowdown, so sixty five won't seem
like you're going slow. Because you'llalways be doing that. M hmm.
Let's see what you're saying. Ithink there's that's how I think there should
be. I think there should bea lane that driverless car is driving.
But what happens when any number ofthings go wrong? Like you say,
it's never gonna stop, but yeah, there's be some the oil's gonna leak

(47:01):
from a car, and the battery'sgonna run out, and then there's gonna
be a stalled car in that lane, and then what but the but the
robot's gonna know. Our computer isgonna know what's going wrong with a car
before it happens, unlike you.Yeah, it's not gonna let it get
that far. But why am I? Why? Why am I playing on

(47:21):
the road on the contech company's side. Yeah, this is weird. I
was going to say. This wholeconversation started with the fact that robots don't
give a book about is why wegotta do it? Yeah, oh my
god. Well, I'd like peopletell me whether I want to know if
you listen to the show, sendus a message either on Sword and Scale,

(47:43):
rewind On on Twitter or Matts orEyes Twitter and let us know what
you think your your choice is killthe little woman and baby in front of
you, or swam into the walland kill you in the car. It's
a tough choice. Make the decisionyou gotta before you get in the car.
I want to talk. Here's anotherquestion that's brought up in this episode.

(48:06):
Do you think it's possible that MarkLatunsky murdered before these events? No?
No, you think those runaways,including the guy who ran away and
came back, are were just theywould have escalated them. There would have
been other DNA in that house.Yeah. Oh, that's but a guarantee

(48:29):
if there's JIS everywhere in that house. I don't want to think about that.
Maybe think of that. I wasjust thinking of the blood everywhere.
But then I was like, there'sother DNA that he's bringing into the house.
Now I think I think he justgot bolder and boulder and got caught
on the first time. Yeah.I mean, it's such a gruesome crime,
but he also seemed woefully unprepared tocover it up, you know,

(48:52):
like he was still just hanging fromthe rafters when the cops got there,
Right, I would think maybe ifhe was he would have mass killer.
Yeah, he would have tried tohide it more. What were your thoughts?
Do you think he watched a lotof Sorry I didn't mean it,
but that show That's Dexter because itwas kind of a Dexter time kind of
killing right, It was a littlebit a little bit but then yeah,

(49:12):
I mean, god, we getso many horrible ideas from watching things.
So he's just he's just when theytalk about is him being married to his
wife? You know, just soundlike just one of those people that's just
mean. Just oh yeah, youjust don't want to be right, guess
so mean. And I know youdon't ever google these people or see what

(49:36):
they actually look like, but ifyou want to see what Mark Latunsky looks
like, not a looker? Henot a looker. He is exactly what
you would think of, just acreeper who praise on other people. He's
how about the wife? Was thewife a looker? I didn't see that
picture. I only saw the pictureof the dude, so I was interested
in, Um, what were yourthoughts that too? Yeah? Better?

(49:58):
If I'm making martinis cosmopolitans, youbetter be. I just wanted to pay
to see the picture of the dude. That sounds I'm interested what were your
thoughts on makeup mogul Jeffrey Starr,who's also interviewed to heat the episode.
But he's been canceled, right,Oh, I think so now that you
mentioned that. I didn't actually thinkthat until you've just now said it.
I remember hearing something, Yeah,everyone's canceled. Everybody. Yeah, Well,

(50:21):
in comedy, if you get canceled, get nominated for a Grammy.
It's what I'm gonna awesome. I'mtrying to get canceled. Well all people
off the dudes listen to this episode, and I'm not gonna have very far.
Hey to tell you he did acouple of jis or that's the dessertness.
I was trying to explain to mywife. I was like, it's
a good thing. I'm not evergoing to run for political office because I
have said so many things into amicrophone I can't even remember half of it.

(50:45):
Or it's or somebody in your family'srunning for you? Did you rather
say, yeah, exactly. Iwant to play a clip here of this
YouTuber. I thought he said someinteresting things. I had some thoughts.
I want to share them with you. Here we go. What's really heavy
heart? It's one of my dearestsubscribers and fans. His name was Kevin

(51:05):
Bacon and he was from a verysmall town in Michigan called a Swartz Creek,
and he was sadly murdered a fewdays ago. And the case it's
giving me weird vibes. The policeare playing games, and I really wanted
to talk about this case and bringmore awareness to Kevin and his family.

(51:30):
I thought it was really interesting thathe was talking about how the police are
playing games. I didn't understand it. I didn't either. The only thought
that I had it's an open investigation, and the police are not just going
to go reveal all the information thatthey have. It doesn't work that way,

(51:50):
So you'd think because because they didn'tgive him all the information, he's
like, they're playing games with me. That's kind of what I thought.
And I also I thought it wasbecause they didn't do anything about the other
two guys that he thought the policewere playing games, like they knew there
was going to be a problem,sure, and they hadn't done anything.
That's what I kind of thought.I think either way, it sounded a
little bit uninformed. You know.I also thought sounded Jeffrey Stars. I

(52:15):
kind of had two thoughts about it. I thought it was interesting that he
was choosing to make an announcement atall. Right, it felt a little
bit like I'm just using this sothat people, the right people will put
my name with this case. Ialso on the flip side of it,
though, you've got to maybe kindof distance yourself from it. You know,

(52:38):
there's other stories throughout entertainment history oflike actors or whoever who kind of
get their name raked through the mudbecause they're tangentially involved, but not really.
So I started my mind started tochange a little bit. And also
I would say, as a hostof a show, I guess if I

(52:59):
had heard about some tragic death,I might feel like I should say something
about it. I don't know,no, no, um. I I
think it was a little bit ofboth. But I also thought he said
some nice things. You know,he's later on he said some nice things.
You know, he donated twenty thousanddollars and put the things out there,

(53:19):
Hey be safe, you know,And this guy loved I love to
have fun and love to live life. And you know, I thought he
said some great things. So Idon't I don't know, Although that beginning
part is you're just like want Yeah, but you can't judge him for that.
You know, people, when you'retalking about somebody that dies, you

(53:39):
don't you don't always the right words. Yeah, I agree, And again
he did donate a lot of money, so I thought that was really weird
him to do that. It'd beweird. Did somebody had a tattoo of
you on them and they then helpson their showing and he's been hung up
side down? You're like, yeah, okay, did they want to kill
me? Right? Yeah? Mentionedthat the twenty thousand went to the funeral

(54:02):
costs. What's up with funerals costingfive figures? This is like a crazy,
crazy scenario that I don't know howwe got this far. Is it
just because people like you're gonna goif you want to believe in like a
heaven and a hell? I don'tthink the place that your body is rotting

(54:27):
in has anything to do with that. Why are we spending this much money
on a casket or on a site? I just I don't get it.
I don't. I think it's somethingI don't understand it as well, And
I don't I know this is weirdto talk about, but I think i'd
like to be donated to science iswhat I'd like to happen before you die.

(54:49):
Yep, just before you're out.Way to go, Matt, I
was trying to have a nice talkand you decide to ruin it. Sorry,
donate you to fucking science. No, I'd like to. I'd like
to, you know whatever. There'sthere's areas where you know, they do
things with your body, but there'salso in murders they use you. Uh
there's a place where they put youto see how long it takes for you
to disappear. Yeah, So Ijust I don't know. I also feel

(55:14):
like we talk about and being environmentallysound, and I don't know how graveyards
are, you know, I don'tknow why. Sure like it just seems
like a waste of space and theyjust keep watering the grass and the cutting

(55:35):
the grass and the and it doesn'tseem and it doesn't seem like the body
goes back to the earth where.Yeah, have you seen they have those
new newer things where it's like makesyour body part of like a tree.
Oh that's cool. I thought thatwas pretty cool looking at a tree.
Not like that, it's like ascarecrow. Yeah, like that, like
one of those faces you put ona tree. Yeah, like that.

(55:57):
No, it's more like, youknow, your ashes and stuff mixed in
with soil. Oh, it's interestingyour physical body necessarily, But I thought
that seemed to make a little bitmore sense. And then instead of this
weird, desolate graveyard, you havelike a forest with like renewable energy and
stuff. I mean, it's itsounds nice. Who knows what the realities
of it are. Well, honestly, by the end of the day,
we're just we're just dinosaurs which turnedinto fuel. Like, yeah, so

(56:22):
how we have to I'm guessing that'swhat we have to do, is we
have to just turn into some sortof energy source. That's all we are.
Good talk, way to fucking bringit down, Jesus Christ, how
much is a funeral? Well,what do you want to do? God,
damn it, you're worse than mywife. I don't want to I
don't want to get life insurance.You're just gonna kill me. Ye,

(56:45):
So there's another By the way,why do they call it life insurance?
It should be it's non insurance.Though it's insurance. Sounds like you're gonna
get another three years out of something. Yeah, that's great. Um,
I wanted to wrap this up withsome talk about the the hearings, the

(57:06):
trial, and initially Mark said thathe wasn't Mark Latunsky. Mark Latunsky was
his nephew and his real name isEdgar Thomas Hill. He's a descendant of
a royal Welsh family called the Thomasclan, and then for I guess,
for a very long time, continuedto maintain that that's who he was.

(57:30):
I mean, this guy is iscompletely insane or he's brilliant. I mean
he we know he has these masters, we know he holds several patents.
He obviously has levels of brilliance inhim, but he has certainly crossed a
line and I think he knows thatit keeps him out of prison. He's

(57:52):
yeah, he's brilliantly crazy. ButI thought it was interesting they because they
kind of talk about the two typesof insanity and how you can be guilty
but mentally ill or not guilty becauseof insanity. But in either scenario you're
gonna go to jail. It's justa question whether or nothing it though.
Yeah, they keep testing it whilehe's not ready yet. Well i'll push

(58:15):
it next year. Yeah, Sothat's what he's doing well. I have
an update for you up date.You are correct. It just continues to
get pushed still to this day.So here's the deal. He's in a
hospital, I guess more or lesseating balls. Yeah. So in June

(58:37):
of twenty twenty one, that iswhen the initial lawsuit deposition between the killer
and the businessman. Oh yeah,yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.
So in that initial hearing in Juneof twenty twenty one, Mark invoked his
Fifth Amendment rights one hundred and twentytwo times. Jesus so literally to every

(59:00):
question that he was asked. Hejust pled the Fifth back. In January
of two thousand and twenty, hehad entered an insanity plea and then in
February a judge had ruled that hewas incapable of standing trial. But in
October of twenty twenty, the courtsreversed that decision, saying that he would

(59:23):
be able to start trial proceedings.So he has been found competent. The
trial was set to begin in Julyof twenty twenty one, but as we're
taping this, it still hasn't startedyet, and there's some speculation that it
could maybe start in January of twentytwenty two, which is basically when this
episode that we're taping is being released. So it's maybe it's happening like right

(59:46):
now, but not not likely,you know. I think those guys always
are good at ulterior motives and ulteriorplans. Obviously he wasn't good at planning
out the murder to get away withit. But yeah, one of the
quotes I wrote down, I hadnever really considered just because you're crazy doesn't

(01:00:06):
mean you don't know what you're doingright, which I that really is a
brilliant way to think about it,because you think, oh, they're they're
playing guilty by insanity. They werejust so crazy they didn't know. But
it's it's not that simple, youknow. And again, you could be
crazy, but you do certain things. You you lie about things, you

(01:00:27):
will change your story. So there'sa part of you that does know,
Yeah, what you're doing is wrong, that's the That's the thing. At
what point are you so far gonethat you don't know the difference between right
and wrong? And I don't.I would like to say it would be
you know, a kid that hasmental retardation, You know that that might
and I don't. Even then,we all know they know, Yeah,

(01:00:52):
they know. If they know,well what I just you don't know.
And that's lawyers are paid to getpeople up. They were they do.
By the way, where we've changed. You asked what the businessman was like
accusing the killer of It was neglect, battery and false in prison neglect.
Worst week in my life. Yeah. Um, he had no must had

(01:01:16):
tiny little balls. That's why Ididn't cut him off. That's the only
reason why. Oh my god,I'm going to a Christmas part. I
got nothing. I gotta cut offyour nuts and roast and Kevin Bacon nuts
on open fire. Well, folks, we're not going to top that.
There's no way I'm topping that.I had other topics, but forget it.

(01:01:36):
Kidding. Great show, a goodshow, Matthew. I feel like
we paid tribute to both Kevin Bacon's. You know, we told the we
retold the story. We also hadsome laughs along the way. Yeah,
it's pretty successful. Not loose.Yeah, no, put on your Sunday.

(01:02:00):
Oh, probably have to take thatoff. Probably keep the song that
I was thinking. We probably couldn'thave to take that down off the internet.
We're keeping it, folks. Thankyou all for listening to our show.
We hope you enjoy it. Pleasegive us a nice review, send
us a message, let us knowyou're out there. I've been getting lots
of tweets from people good. I'mreally excited. Everyone's been very nice so

(01:02:21):
far. Everybody hates me. Ilove it, I love you. I
love it. I've been having agreat job. I have had some people
show up to the shows that hey, we listened to the show. We
came to see you because we listenedto the show. Thanks funny so and
I've had a couple of people thatsay, we just listened to the rewind
show and I was like, oh, all right, it doesn't make sense,
but okay, well I think itmakes sense. People don't want to

(01:02:44):
necessarily hear the details about the ballsbeing cut off. And we got better
voices than Mike. I don't knowabout that. He does have a good
voice. He's got a great voice. Well, hopefully we'll get him back
on the show one of these Yeah, we gotta have well come back on
and tease him a little bit.Yep. But in the meantime we'll just
make fun of each other, allright. See Larry Matthew bag back.

(01:03:04):
Follow me on Twitter at Matt Fallento leer. Check out another show I'm
on called The water Cooler sounds fun. Ian's on Twitter at Sarah Ian bag
Bag. Give a listen to Aroundthe Bag starting in a new studio this
January, and we'll started recording inJanuary started they'll be coming out in February,
so go to listen or look atthe old podcast and see even new

(01:03:27):
one starting in February. That's awesome. Again, We love you guys,
thanks for the support. As Mikelikes to say, stay safe, and
as I like to say, don'tbe a douchebag. Yeah. Sort scale
we want is a production of incongruityMedia. If you enjoyed the show,

(01:03:50):
leave us a five star rating anda glowing review. No criticism please,
it hurts our feelings. Be sureto tell your friends about us, but
not your family or co workers becauseI'll think you're weird. Okay, that's
it. Until next time. Don'tbe a douchebag.