April 16, 2024 • 43 mins
QB consultant Jordan Palmer joins the show to breakdown each of the top prospects before next weeks draft
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
You know, Jmack and I were just talking about if
you take the best single team ever in the NBA,
because they just announced the USA Olympic team for Paris.
I don't think people realize J Mack made this during
the break how good Klay Thompson was in his prime.
So he was the best or second best defensive two
guard with d Wade Klay Thompson, and he was the
best catch and shoot guy in the league.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
And so you had again when you could use the
hand check.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
The greatest team I've ever seen was the Bulls with
MJ and Pippin.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
And a variety of shooters.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Roden Kucko could hit a three, and there were two versions,
the first three the second three. But if you couldn't
use a hand check, there is no way that team
could beat. Now, think about this as great as Shaq
and Kobe's dynasty was Shack gives you twos. Yeah, he'd
score forty against the Warriors, but he couldn't hit a
free throw, foul him, throw people at him. It would
(01:19):
just be a math equation. Durant three, Clay three, Steph three,
and Draymond was the best defensive player in the league.
I mean they literally had the best shooter ever, the
best shot maker, the best defensive player, the best two
guard in the league, and one of the best coaches.
Jordan's team had the best player in the best robin
and then it was a euro. Rodman was not as
(01:40):
gifted as Draymont, but in the handcheck era, that team was.
I mean, if they could just grab you and push you,
that's when they were great. But as the world evolves
and they take away the hand check, Chicago would have
been absolutely outmanned by those Warrior teams. You just spread
the court up, put KD in the corner, you have
Clay on the wing, catch and shoot. You have Draymond
(02:01):
and Steph doing pick and rolls and constant motion, and
there's nothing Michael can do.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
You can't stay in front of it any.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
It's all match up hunting, Wessie Jalen brunts to do
match up hunting in these playoffs. And if you do
the drop coverage and come back in the lane to
prevent layups, he's just going to make a million mid
range shots, which is what Jordan would have done.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Curry, Klay and Kdre mcckeery. Yeah, it's a math equation.
Shaq couldn't hit free throws late and he gives you twos.
And Jordan and Pippin were two guys so that when
they moved the three point line in, Michael had his
two best three point shooting years. They moved it back out,
he went out v being an average three point shooter.
So a lot of it's just math and analytics and
the game changes.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
I mean, it's like in football, what the Ravens were
allowed to do with Ray Lewis and McAllister and and
you know you're Ed Reid's and Sarah Goose.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
You're not allowed to do that today.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
So in a defensive league, Belichick was unbeatable and the
Ravens were the greatest team ever. So were the Bears.
In modern sports, there are some teams, though, I do
think the Jordan Bulls would still be dominant today. I
just don't think they would have beaten those Warriors. But
I think some of the all time great teams, some
teams just age better than others. I think Jordan's Bulls
(03:11):
teams would age.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Very very well.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Uh, Shaq Kobe teams are interesting. I don't know if
they'd age as well. Shaq couldn't hit a free throw.
That was mostly a two team. I don't know if
they would age well.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Who was their third best player?
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Rick fox Well, Robert rind of Oh I saw or
the other night at the Arena.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
I love Robert, Yeah, Derek Fisher was Fish.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
They had.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
It was a really good team.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Well, they had the best They had the best perimeter
closer in Kobe and the best closer period in Shack.
But the free throw stuff was a real issue. I
covered that Laker Blazer series that went seven games and
it was the Hacker Shacks and Portland out played them
for about sixty percent of the series. They outplayed them,
They had double digit leads. But in the end, you know,
it was Rasheen against Shack. It's you know, it was
(03:57):
a lot of I think it was Steve Smith and Kobe.
It was just like the Lakers had the two best
closers in the series.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
I think Game seven, Portland was up like double digits.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
I thought they outplayed most of the series.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
I remember watching where I was watching that comeback and
the Kobe to Shaq alley, one of my favorite NBA
highlights ever.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
I just was going crazy.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Of course I was behind the basket for that, and
I remember looking at Bob Witch at the GM and
just going great. But I again nothing against Phil Jet,
but the Lakers couldn't stop Rasheen Wallace. He was just
he would get whatever he wanted to get. Lakers were
a very top heavy team. The Blazers were deeper, but
they didn't have Shaq and Kobe. So it's funny when
you go like a not all great team. The Ravens
(04:36):
with Dilford do not age well, right, The Bears football
team with McMahon.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
They do not age well.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
But I think there are certain like I think you
can go back to the Brady dynasties. If you go
back to the Brady teams, they were great situationally, they
could run the ball, they could throw it. The Moss
teams could throw deep. Though they didn't win a Super Bowl.
I think those rate. I mean, let's be honest, Mahomes
couldn't beat Brady in those New England teams in the playoffs.
Remember the Kansas the City game. They got the they
got the overtime coin toss, they got the ball first.
(05:04):
So though I think the Brady dynasty teams really wear well,
I don't think the Ravens do. I don't think the
Bears do. I think the Bulls team wears well because
Kukos could hit a three, Kirk could hit a three,
Paxson could hit a three, Michael occasionally the Blazers game
could hit a three.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
I think they age pretty well.
Speaker 5 (05:22):
Now.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
They had some back to the Basket bigs and Wennington
and yeah whatever. So it's just, you know, it's just
like when I look at certain teams, I think, oh,
that that team would play like certain players. I think
Walter Payton would be a great running back today. I
mean I think he would just his.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
He was rely.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
I've never seen a running back run like that. It
would be a Barry standard. Jim Brown would just he
was fast, big and strong. But I don't think there's
a lot of players when you look at and you're like, yeah,
that's not gonna that's not gonna work today.
Speaker 6 (05:54):
You know.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
So, I mean, I think if you put Cheryl Miller
today would be a great women's basketball and eighty three
she was dominant. She would be dominant today. The way
she handled the ball didn't even look like any other player.
Maya more in any generation would be great. Like you know,
the funny one, the interesting one to me about like
what age is well and what doesn't. So back to
(06:15):
the basket centers would not age as well? Like what
would you do with Kareem? He's a two? So I
always think Kareem is the most fascinating NBA player in
terms of which Kareem.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
There's bucks. There was early lakerss again, he.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Ran the flo Giannis when he was young, I mean
he ran the floor, but most of his career.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
He was the skyhook. What do you do with the skyhook?
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Like, I mean, so you'd go in you're a general manager, like, well,
nobody can stop the two. But he's just a two
and so the last twelve years, so I don't know
exactly how that works. Dwight Howard's career evaporated because he
was a back to the basket center and couldn't do
much facing the hoop, and it's like and he was
the best rebounder, the best shot blocker.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
He had happen. He was almost the best player in
the league for like a three year runn He was unbelievable.
But like Patrick Gowing, what is he in today's head?
Speaker 2 (07:05):
And I love.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Patrick Guing, So I don't think he aged. I'll tell
you a guy that age is great. I'll tell you
a great player in the seventies that would be great today.
Rick Berry. So Rick Berry was pre Larry Bird. Rick
Barry played for the Warriors. He you know the Barry kids.
Rick could shoot a three. Rick was a brilliant passer.
Rick was intense. Rick Berry would age very well. Rick
(07:28):
Barry was Larry Bird. Before Larry Bird. There's been like
three forwards that were different. So Rick Barry was a
forward and he was often the best shooter on the floor.
And then Larry Bird came into the league, and you're
like the best shooter in the games of of three four?
Speaker 5 (07:42):
What?
Speaker 1 (07:43):
And then like Larry Bird would be great today. We
all know that because he could shoot. But Rick Berry
was pre Larry Bird, feisty, shoot pass threes. So Rick
Berry in the seventies. Of all the Stars, Doctor J
I mean, name all the stars. Rick Berry would age
and well today. Larry Bird of the eighty Stars with
age very well today. So there's three forwards in my
(08:05):
life that you're like, what Barry was the first? Bird
was the second, like, how can this guy shoot like that?
And then Lebron was this incredible distributor, ballhandler, and he's
a forward.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
He's six eight and a half two sixty. So, I
mean the game has changed.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
But a lot of these stars, I don't know what
you do with Kareem what would you He's gonna give
you thirty eight.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
They're all twos.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
He's not great at the line, but he's he was
a Remember he was like Wemby and Giannis. He was
a dominant defensive player at the rim. So you couldn't
I mean, if you at a center, you nobody scored low.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
When teach Karee met to shoot threes like Joel Embiid.
Joel Embid, by the way, I looked this up last night.
If do this, Giannis has.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Never shot him well.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Joel Embiid one of five and three pointers at Kansas. Meanwhile,
three years later he's attempting two hundred in the NBA.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Well, Anthony Davis, the Lakers try to move him outside
and he didn't like it, and he wasn't as effective.
And Giannis has never been effective. So I don't think
Karree would have been a three point shooter. I think
one of the things I like about sports is how
people age, like how dynasty's age. Most of the time
they don't age well if you look at the history,
(09:13):
they don't. Not only are people bigger and stronger, but
the games were built for the time. Like Michael Jordan
today would obviously be great, but Michael didn't shoot threes
particularly well. Now he would still be the most competitive,
the most relentless, the best on ball defender, a prolific score.
He would be Aunt Edwards, but a better version. So
(09:33):
that tells me thirty four a game great defense. So
Michael would still be great, but he would live in
a world where Steph Curry would still score faster and
Jokich could still do more well. So if Michael was
in his prime today and Lebron was in his prime
and Jokich was in his prime, Jokic and Lebron would
(09:54):
do more well than Michael because their games just do more.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Well.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
They're both better passers. They're I mean they both see
they both better long distant shooters. So Michael would age well,
but you would see more flaws in Michael's game. He
was never a good long distant shooter. Kobe always had
better range than Michael.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
By the way, there were more All Stars, probably international
this year than there were the entire league. When Michael
Jordan was winning three straight in the early nineties, there
just weren't European players. There weren't a lot of them
in the league. Like Drazen Petrovic a handle a handle well.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
I mean, think about think about a rim protector in
Jordan's era. To Kenby Montombo can't run the floor like Yanna.
He was like a classic big exactly those guys now Wemby,
look at Wemby into Kemya. It's like a different planet.
It's a different species. I mean, it's just different player totally.
I mean, Wemby can do anything. He can shoot a three,
(10:48):
can run the floor, he can pass, he can handle.
Yo Kich can do everything. To Kenby Mundumbo could dunk
and protect the rim. And so that's what everybody always says,
Oh Jordan, it was different back then. Yes, it was
much less skilled. They did a thirty for thirty documentary
on the Nixon Pacers series. There was one shooter in
the whole series, Reggie Miller. I mean he was the
only I mean, Starks wasn't.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
A great shooter.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
That league back then was Oak Lee and Anthony Mason,
and it was tough guys that nobody could shoot.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
They clogged the lane. Go look at the games on
NBA TV.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
It's like five guys basically one foot in the lane,
packing the paint. No layups allowed with They're daring people
to shoot, and people couldn't shoot like not.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
Like they can't today.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Obviously they could make baskets, but is it just the
shooting Michael.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Michael would not have been allowed to hand check, and
Michael would have been forced to guard in the perimeter.
So whereas Michael could hand check you and then just
direct you into his bigs, Michael now wouldn't have the
bigs behind him because they're guarding their big out of
the lane.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
Horace Grant's not camped out in the lane.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Well, Michael's one on one and here comes a guard
and Michael can't touch him, and he would fly past Michael.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
There's a reason Tyrese Maxey who you love, I mean
you talk to well.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
You can't stand in front of Tyree when.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
He drives the lane.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
There's nobody there because in beads outside waiting, you gotta
guard him.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Yeah, so it's a it's I mean really different. Like
Lebron is a classic tet. Lebron would age in Airny
era because Lebron could have played bullyball because of his
size six nine two fifty and his skillet. He would
have been great in the seventies, eighties nineties. Michael would
be great now, but there would be flawed. There would
be things Michael would not do as well as other people.
(12:25):
I mean, there's no disputing that Michael was never a
great three point shooter.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Like what would what does Lebron do now?
Speaker 1 (12:31):
That wouldn't work in the seventies, eighties nineties he would
be bigger, stronger, faster and shoot better than ninety nine
percent of the league. Michael today, even with practice, would
never be a great long distance shooter. And if you're not,
there are limitations on I mean again, people would just
beg Michael hit.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
The mid ring, but he hit six threes against Portland
in one half and now he's a great thing. You know,
it's just people forget about every other game.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Yeah, they're just kind of riffing today.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
I don't think the audience is going to love that one.
That's just my guess. Don't go on social media after
this segment.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Well I don't go, but I'm just saying it would.
Am I wrong?
Speaker 1 (13:07):
No, So the moral of the story is not all
dynasties are the same. Some age well, some don't. Not
all stars age well. Walter Payton would be the best
running back in the NFL today. It's not a doubt
in my mind his strength. I mean, go look at
the video. He was literally strongest running over running past Megan.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Okay, so you did make a comment yesterday about McCaffrey.
You said you saw him at UFC and you were like,
that's a second since we think Peyton, and I was
gonna be like, oh, hold up, Barry Sanders, Adrian Peterson.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
There several guys who have been amazing. Adrian Peterson works
in any era, would be.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
There's no question, no question, but McCaffrey's ability to catch
the ball. McCaffrey's a wide receiver. He's literally a wide
receiver who plays running back with elite like Olympic speed
in the prime. I mean, there's nothing there he can
The best three I've seen are Walter McCaffrey and Bear Sanders.
Adrian Peterson was he ran angry and he ran hard,
(14:03):
but there were fumbles. I don't know if he was
He wasn't much of a pass catcher, not at all.
He was just a freight train.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
He was.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
He was kind of here's my like Derrick Henry, here's
my style. But I mean McCaffrey could literally split out.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
I'll tell you.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
The most underrated back ever was Edgerin James. Edgerin James
could have made the NFL. I'd argue as like a linebacker,
a return guy, a slot receiver or running back.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Edgerin James was insane.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Can I interest you in Bo Jackson? I know that
he didn't last long because the injuries, but at his height.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Oh pretty good. He was pretty good. Unstopped, like literally unstopped.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Springtime's a perfect time to give a fresh look at
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He's a co back consultant, the founder of the Quarterback
(15:02):
Summit training Quarterback Draft Prospects since twenty fourteen.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
It's Jordan Palmer.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
He's worked with Mahomes and Joe Burrow and Josh Allen
and Trevor Lawrence, so you know a lot of this stuff.
I was saying about JJ McCarthy that if you look
at the last ten drafts, we have twelve quarterbacks that
I would view as a substantial hit. The higher end
is Mahomes, the lower end could be maybe a Dak
but sil very very good player.
Speaker 5 (15:28):
A hit.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
And the only common thread it's not the school they
went to, it's not the size. The common hit is
they came out and they did one of two things
in college. They either elevated pretty average teammates or they
were on a stack roster and put up cartoon numbers.
Hurtz Kyler Burrow with JJ McCarthy, he got the stacked
(15:54):
roster and wasn't wildly productive, and that worries me a
little when I go back to the last ten drafts,
is that you know, Burrow out of stack roster. He
got sixty five touchdowns, which in the SEC doesn't even
make sense.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
It's like a video game.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Should I be a little concerned that they didn't ask
him to kind of carry him? And in the NFL,
I mean, Jordan, that's kind of a game for a
young quarterback, isn't it?
Speaker 5 (16:20):
Yeah? It really is.
Speaker 6 (16:21):
And I think what I'm about to say has nothing
to do with jj It's not his fault. In fact,
he's the defending national champion and just went fifteen to zero.
But you know, before each game at Michigan, when you
know Harvaugh's hitting his pads and all that stuff in pregame,
there was an understanding that they were going to rush
(16:42):
for twohundred fifty yards and that the defense wasn't going
to stop them on the ground.
Speaker 5 (16:47):
And this is not his.
Speaker 6 (16:49):
Fault, right, He's part of a great organization. He was
a big part of that run game. There's a lot
of run checks that fall on him. There's his threat
as a runner that creates advantages for Blake Korham and
other runners.
Speaker 5 (16:59):
So it's actually he's a part of why it happened.
Speaker 6 (17:04):
I wouldn't fault somebody on not having the video game
numbers if they weren't asked to. Now, had we seen
games where they asked him to throw it forty times
and he just completed half of them and threw two picks,
then that'd be different. That never happened. And so unfortunately,
when you're drafting anybody at the top, you have to
make assumptions because we don't have we can't see how
(17:25):
they were in the NFL different than a free agency
we can literally look at how you stack up against
NFL defenses. We can't do that in the draft. That's
why it's an imperfect science. I heard some stat that
forty four percent I think of. This might be wrong
in fact check me, but it was forty four percent
I think of, like the last top ten picks in
the last ten years didn't pan out. So whatever that
stat is, where you go, oh man, there's a lot
(17:46):
of busts. It's because people are making assumptions. And the
biggest assumption that needs to be made with JJ is
that in all fifteen of those games, they knew they
were going to run the ball right down their opponent's throat,
and in the NFL, depending on your situation, there are
quarterbacks start every game of the season and they don't
know until the second.
Speaker 5 (18:02):
Quarter if the run game is gonna work today.
Speaker 6 (18:05):
And that's not an over exaggeration, and so how you
have to win in the league. We all say third
down is the most important down in football and all that,
I agree, but you're just not gonna know. Lamar Jackson
this next season will not know beyond a shadow of
it out that the run game is gonna work every
single week like in warm ups.
Speaker 5 (18:25):
He won't.
Speaker 6 (18:26):
And that's we'd all argue is the best run game
in the league. And so that's the big hurdle. We
know how he can play against competition because he won
a national title and he played in the Big Ten
and you know, and it has played at a really
high level consistently since he stepped foot on campus.
Speaker 5 (18:40):
But that's the biggest assumption that teams.
Speaker 6 (18:43):
Whoever's gonna draft, you know, trade up or take him,
is making an assumption that this guy can play if
the game's on his shoulders to win it.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
In the air.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
So the acc is has been down for several years
and Drake May was really in consistent in that very
average conference, whereas a bow Nicks and a Michael Pennix
were wildly consistent in maybe the best PAC twelve I've
seen in fifteen years. And so I look at Drake Man,
I'm like, man, even in his pro day, I'm like,
(19:16):
should I be worried about that? Or is he just
a developing player with great traits who will figure it out?
Speaker 2 (19:22):
What? What do you think?
Speaker 5 (19:23):
Jordan?
Speaker 6 (19:25):
Every single guy that we're going to talk about today
and fast forward the last years of you and I
talking about the draft picks.
Speaker 5 (19:30):
Is the developmental guy. Kiboy is the developmental guy.
Speaker 6 (19:33):
These guys are transitioning from i'll put air quotes amateur
to professional football. It's a new it's a new sport.
There's different rules, there's different things on the line. You're
asked to do things different, Your week is different. I
literally in my pitch deck when I if I sit
down and pitch a guy for draft prop, I literally
have all the things that are new. You know, new coverages,
(19:55):
new team, new city, new responsibility. There's a lot of
newness that comes. So before I dive into this, they're
all in a developmental stage, and nobody's a finished product.
But what I would say with Drake is for me,
this is one hundred percent a when, not an if.
He is absolutely I think has all of the physical
and then the mental, his emotional makeup.
Speaker 5 (20:17):
He's you.
Speaker 6 (20:18):
If you get a chance to spend time with this
guy called you are going to He's gonna be.
Speaker 5 (20:21):
One of my favorite guys.
Speaker 6 (20:22):
Just knowing you and knowing how you know what you
like and don't like, and some of the players that
you like that other people don't.
Speaker 5 (20:28):
You would love this dude.
Speaker 6 (20:29):
He's very philip rivers in the room, great energy, great
aura around him. Now on the physical side, mechanics, I
do think there's things to clean up. There's got there's
things on in Caleb and other people's games as well.
So this is one hundred percent the fit is he
asked to start right away in a terrible situation. I
think it could go poorly this first year. Yeah, is
(20:50):
he able to learn? And I know we all want
to say that I want to sit and learn, but
is this guy able to really truly develop?
Speaker 5 (20:55):
Is there a developmental plan in place for him? Uh?
Speaker 6 (20:58):
And the majority of throws that quarterbacks make are uncontested,
So think about it like this In basketball, there's really
three types of shots. There's an uncontested shot, you come
off a screen, you're wide open, you shoot it. There's
a contested shot, right you gotta go somebody's hand in
your face. And then you turn a contested shot into
an uncontested shot. So that's what a step back is,
That's what a fadeaway is. I think it's the same
(21:19):
thing for quarterbacks. You drop back, quick game, bubble screens,
clean pocket, that's an uncontested throw. Now, every quarterback also
has to make a determination that they're willing to step
into a throw and they know they're gonna get hit.
Guys that we're going to talk about today are all
past that. And then there's the subtle movements where you
turn an uncontested throw into or i'm sorry, a contested
throat into an uncontested throw. And when guys are inconsistent
(21:42):
in their movements, that's where a lot of misses happen
on some really good players on Sundays even and I
have a lot of inbound clients right now, guys who
play on Sundays because of that methodology and that idea
that how do I turn every throw into an uncontested one,
and how do I make sure that I repeat those
patterns from It's a matter of time with Drake, and
(22:02):
so he's able to do that consistently, and when he does,
he's got so much of the other stuff that somebody's
definitely gonna find their franchise guy in Drake may So.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
One of the criticisms I've heard with Michael Pennix and
I understand your last game gets magnified, but people said, yeah,
we liked him.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
But when he faced Michigan and I think time out,
they had eighteen pros, Washington had six. Let's slow down.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Michigan was way better and Washington was good, but they
didn't have the same number of athletes. The second thing
I hear is, well, you know you can take he
doesn't throw the ball well underneath. And my take is,
I'd rather have a guy that can throw a deep ball.
I'll teach the drag route too. If you can't throw
it deep in quindy weather, Tua, I'm not getting it
(22:48):
from you. So the Pinnick stuff, sometimes I'm like, boy,
are we just crushing the kid? On losing the Michigan
Ohio State CJ. Stroud didn't beat Michigan. What are we
talking about? Where do you land on Panics as a prospect.
Speaker 6 (23:04):
I really like Penix's game. One of the things you'll
hear consistently is I go around to do pro day's
and talk to coaches. It's pretty unanimous that he's got
unique arm talent and unique in terms of the best
or the second best in this class, one of the
best in a lot of classes.
Speaker 5 (23:21):
It just looks different coming out of his hand. It does,
and you're spot on.
Speaker 6 (23:24):
I mean the amount of times that they push the
ball down the field. Now, I will say Oregon and
Washington did a fantastic job from a schematic standpoint, Yeah,
of number one or number two in the progression being
open a lot, you can't fault the quarterback on that.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (23:36):
But they when you look at bo Nix's completion percentage,
that the numbers that both of them put up number
one and number two. These wheel routes, these sale routes,
these fades, these slot fades. These were highly thrown balls.
But I don't care if you're throwing to Rome, you know,
a duneesa or not. The ball hitting these guys in
the face and it's right on the money. I love
(23:58):
Penix's game. The only real question marks, and I'm not
in a position to have an answer on it, is
you know, he's had multiple injuries, but then he went
and played two healthy seasons, and so I think that's
the biggest thing that teams are going to go through
is the age the injuries Now, injuries your last two
seasons is very different than injuries before two healthy seasons. Yeah,
(24:18):
but it's still going to be factored in. But number
one and number two in Washington and Oregon's offense, they
did a fantastic job of scheming those guys open. But
it's not a knock on Michael Pennock Junior because he
still delivered the ball accurately. And in terms of losing
to Michigan, one of the things you get when you're
at Michigan and you enter the playoffs is you've already
played a game that's the same magnitude as a playoff game.
(24:40):
That Michigan Ohio State game is damn near a playoff game.
It's the same atmosphere, it's the same prep, it's the
same pressure. Losing to Ohio State when you're Michigan or
vice versa is kind of like getting knocked out of
the playoffs the first round, so there's the same amount
on the line. So I just look at an organization
in Michigan who had an extra game of that magnitude
as good as Washington Oregon was when they played each
(25:02):
other this year, it wasn't the same magnitude.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Finally, and we're listening. You're listening on radio to Jordan Palmer,
a founder of Quarterback Summit, that it really is the
go to place in America if you're a quarterback, that
the teaching is remarkable. Mahomes, Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, and
we've leaned on him for years. So now and I'm
going to go back years ago, I had the great
(25:25):
honor to interview on the air a president, President Obama,
and I remember asking him a question. I said, you're
the first president who was dealt with social media and
the vulgarity and the vile nature of it. And I
just asked, what is that like you, Jimmy Carter Reaganton,
nobody dealt with that nonsense.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
And we talked about that, and.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I always think about this, the first to deal with
anything is different. Caleb Williams is twenty one, twenty twenty
three years old. He's the first NIL superstar. He's the
first five million dollar college athlete, And I'm like, did
he show some personality? I mean, in college, I was
scrambling for a five dollar biller by pizza. He's making
(26:08):
millions of dollars on things, and so some of the
criticisms are he's kind of got an edge, he's kind
of cocky, and I'm like, well, if I was twenty
two and had four million dollars from United Airlines and
do you look at that? Some of the players in
Caleb Williams of criticisms, he's very emotional, got a little attitude.
Do you just think that to who he is? Does
(26:28):
NIL account for that? What do you make of those criticisms.
Speaker 6 (26:33):
I don't make anything of the criticisms because it's really
just people's opinions and the word, the definition of the
word opinion is a factor information about somebody, not necessarily
based on fact or knowledge.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Right.
Speaker 6 (26:44):
I actually talk at my QB summit camps a lot
about this concept of fear of other people's opinions and
what we can do with it. I just think Caleb's
built to handle it and actually steps into it. Been
around him since high school, when you're the number one
recruit in the country and the Elite eleven MVP and
choosing which school you want to go to and all
the hype that actually does prepare you for stardom. And
(27:06):
when you're in high school, I think I've talked about
this with you before, and you go to a seven
on seven tournament and you're the number one kid. Everybody's
like trying to pick you off, and when they do,
it's going to go on social media. So at sixteen seventeen,
it really prepares you for the stardom of being the
face not of USC but the face of college football,
which is what he was for the last two years,
and not the first quarterback to be the face of
(27:26):
college football, but it prepares you for that. And then
if you look at the money that he's made, whatever
that actual number is, and the pressure of winning a
Heisman and coming back the next year even though your
team's not that great and it's really hard to repeat,
and you know they didn't win the conference and it
wasn't all it's not like he just went undefeated and
(27:47):
won the championships both years. There was some failure, There
was some they didn't win these games. They couldn't beat
Utah there, so he had to deal with success and adversity.
And there might be things that he's done that people
don't like. They may not like the nail polish or
the phone or whatever, but I think these things are
irrelevant because what you really want is somebody who can
step in to the arena that is number one pick,
(28:10):
franchise quarterback and all the scrutiny and all the love
and all the attention that comes with it, who actually
wants it and actually can welcome it and has a
process in a couple of years of dealing with it.
The concern when you take somebody from a small school
from a one year in the you know, in college football,
(28:30):
which we've seen. We've seen Miss Trubisky only start twelve
or thirteen games. Anthony Richardson didn't start a ton of games.
We've seen a lot of guys. Look at the way
that it's played out with Trey Lance, right, small school,
not a lot of games. You're assuming they can take
on all this other stuff that comes with the position.
And I think with Caleb, the magnitude of his brand
(28:53):
going back to high school and how he's handled it
every single year. I think the Bears, if they take
him at one, are going to know exactly what are
going to get. And I went I was a Bear
and I went to the Bears from Jacksonville and it
went from being three people interviewing you to two hundred
people in the room. And I couldn't believe that those
two teams are in the same league. It was such
a different experience. Yeah, I'm not exaggerating. I think Caleb, uniquely,
(29:16):
more so than most of these guys in the last
few years, is built to handle that. That's the crown
coming off like he's ready to handle it.
Speaker 5 (29:24):
And the Bears are going to know that.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
You're so good at what you do.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Quarterback consultant, Quarterback Summit, training, Draft prospects for now a
decade of doing it. And that's a that is a
golf simulator in front of him. So if you think
he's somewhere in the country where it's dusk, it's not.
It's just a golf simulator part of some company you're
part of. What's that company again?
Speaker 5 (29:44):
Yeah, Full Swing golf simulators, best in the business.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
There. You go, good seeing him, My man as always
great work. I mean Jordan Palmer.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
That's a great way of putting it. Like he is
some guy like that. You take these small like Carson
Wentz was a small school guy. You got him to Philadelphia,
which is a lot out of city in the country,
and it's eight hundred people at every press car and
it was like whoa, whoa, it's a lot to deal with.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Some people are you know?
Speaker 1 (30:08):
And here was Carson West, small town guy, liked hunting fish.
All of a sudden, Philadelphia media is just coming fangs,
They're coming after you. J Max used to be in
that Philadelphia media. These are not good people.
Speaker 4 (30:22):
I was in the urbs.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
I was part of the Philadelphia media enough that I
got to play in a pickup media game at the
Sixers whatever it's called Speca.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
It's a different ballgame. Carson went a small town to.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
That he could not handle it. It's okay to say that, Like,
you know, he wasn't.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Ready for it. Rock Purty, San Francisco media is ready
for it. Bring it out?
Speaker 4 (30:43):
Would you say it something nice about Rock Party?
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Wow, We take a break Herdline News next. Be sure
to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in Noone
Eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio FS one
and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
Two NBA Insiders podcasting twice a week to plug you
right into the NBA grape Fine.
Speaker 7 (31:03):
All happening in only one place. This League Uncut, the
new NBA podcast with Me, Chris.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Haynes and Me.
Speaker 7 (31:11):
Mark Stein join us as we team up to expound
on everything we're covering. Hearing and Chason.
Speaker 4 (31:17):
Listen to This League Uncut with Chris Haynes and Mark Stein.
Speaker 7 (31:21):
On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Sunday on fox The Stars of Nascar at Talladega for
the biggest thrill ride of the year. The Free Show
kicks things off at two Eastern, then the Green Flag
flies at three eastern Sunday on Foxy.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
All right, j Mac, if you sat and listened to
Jordan Palmer, give you a critique. I love what he
said about like Michael Pennock, I do think sometimes the
last game you watch is a bit of an eye opener.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Sometimes it benefits you. CJ.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Stroud when he ran against Georgia, you're like, oh, Justin
Herbert ran against Wisconsin, and then you watch Michael Pennix,
It's like, well, Michigan really ate them alive. Yeah, the
game before he ate Texas alive. The game before that,
he ate Oregon alive. So it's like the last three games,
two of them. He was unbelievable and the best team
in the country that beat Alabama, that literally hammered OSU.
(32:20):
The last two years, the buck Eyes, they lose to
almost nobody. Ohio State couldn't beat Michigan. They pull away
both years in the second half run over them. Yeah,
Pennix wasn't great against them, Well.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Who was?
Speaker 1 (32:34):
I mean, TCU had a great game plan in a
great game full of NFL players the year before against Michigan,
but they just rolled.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Through people for two years. Everybody Jmack with the news,
this is the herd line news.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
And I remember last year TCU had a month to
prepare for that semi final.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
In this one, Penix only had what like six a.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Week And go back to that tc tc But how
many pros were on that team?
Speaker 4 (33:02):
Yeah, well pen has I'm not making an excuses.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Pennix has two receivers who are going to be drafted,
you know, but they didn't have Michigan's personnel. No, and
Michigan was totally stacked anyways, So NFL Draft next week
I mentioned Peter Schrager of Fox dropped his latest mock.
We've done yours mine, everybody's. Here's Schrager coming off the
top rope with a shocker. The New York Giants move
(33:26):
up to four for J. J.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
McCarty. I don't like it.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
I'll give Schrager this.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
He is a New York City guy, He's been around
the Giants for a while. I'm assuming this isn't coming
out of nowhere, and there's probably some smoke here, I think.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
So you're gonna have to give up major draft cap
and a lot of team that has like three great
players and just lost Barkley.
Speaker 4 (33:47):
You just have to say.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
Brian Dabeles says I can make him a star, and
you have to trust dabel I don't doubt dabel That
would drop Marvin Harrison to the Chargers.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
You know the Chargers have a history of Stanton put
and getting Herbert Derwin, James and Rashaun Slater.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Tallasco didn't move a lot.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
He'd sitting wait and he got great players every year,
like last year was a miss. It looks like I'm
the number one, But they weren't hyper aggressive, and they
got Herbert, a left tackle and one of the best
athletes at safety in a decade.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Yeah, there's some chatter that Malik Neighbors is going to
be the guy in Arizona. Schrager has Rome of Dooonsday
now that could if Rome doesn't go six, he could
fall to my Jets.
Speaker 4 (34:30):
At ten, Schrager has Rock Bowers to the Jets. Listen,
we love Bowers. We'll watch them all season. I just
don't know about a tight end at ten. I'm fine
being wrong. I'll root for Bowers.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Well, if you have Breese Hall, So Aaron Rodgers gets
Breese Hall. Garrett Wilson, Mike Williams probably the best tight
end of the college.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
Tut what did we talk about last year with this
team no offensive line?
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Okay, and then Morgan Moses and went and got two tackles.
It is a tackle rich draft.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
There's gonna be tackles in the third, fourth, fifth, sixth,
seventh rounds and you're not asking him to start. Tyron
Smith will start at left tackle. He will start. So
the question becomes, you do need to have somebody that's
ready to go by Thanksgiving. But if you're telling me
Aaron Rodgers has a star running back, a star number one,
a red zone Mike Williams matchup advantage, an elite tight end.
(35:23):
That's a different roster. They know we like their defensive roster.
That's a That's a hell of an off season.
Speaker 4 (35:30):
The most practical move I got.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Can't hate it.
Speaker 6 (35:32):
I guess the.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Jets for second.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
If that happened, I think brought back the entire I
think Buffalo Buffalo wins the division. Jets second, because I'm
really cool on the Jets.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
They just don't have enough.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
But Brock Barrowers would walk into this league potentially beat
a seventy catch tight end.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
They Jets don't have enough.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
What offense?
Speaker 1 (35:53):
They're a twisted ankle de Bresee Hall from being airon
throw at forty four times.
Speaker 4 (35:59):
What happened to Positive first? It's like if you goes down,
if he's hauled twisted his ankle, Like, come on man.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Anyways, Schrager has bon Knicks to Minnesota.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
I believe at twenty two twenty well, I think anybody
that goes to minnisos I would love to see that
because I think bon Knicks needs the right fit. But
I think that'd be great, that'd be exciting. Like boy Schragers.
He knows New York teams. He wrote Out of the Blue,
he wrote a Giants book. He's got good sourcing.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
I don't know how Giants fans will feel, but I
don't really care about them anyways. Let's move on. Oh more.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
New York Giants content Daniel Jones is making his way
back from a torn acl last season. He's expecting to
be ready for training camp. Talking to the media Monday,
Daniel Jones addressed the reports that New York could draft
a quarterback.
Speaker 5 (36:43):
M yeah, I feel you're the best quarterback that.
Speaker 8 (36:49):
The Giants can have with I do, yes, And it's
a competitive league, so uh, you know, the best way
to handle that, I think is to focus on what
I'm doing, focus on myself and making sure that i'm
you know, one healthy and then ready to play good football.
So you know, that's what I can control. That's what
(37:10):
what I can do to to help myself and the team.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
So if you're watching at home, I'm sure you saw
the look he had the wide eyes when asked about
did you see?
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Yeah? I did.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
What'd you make of it?
Speaker 3 (37:24):
It's it's just a tough spot for the guy. Elliston,
I'm not the biggest Daniel Jones fan. As you know,
you're trying to look up what his major was in college.
It probably doesn't matter. He looks like a smart individual.
He has to know what's up.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Of course he.
Speaker 4 (37:37):
We moved off Squon, You're next.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Yeah, I mean, that's just I don't mean to be harsh,
but like, well, if Schrager's right, so you're you're talking
about a team that really is at the bottom of
the league with Carolina for offensive weapons, and you're gonna
give up picks to get JJ.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
McCarthy and now you have a quarterback room.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
That's you stood Davill stood pat for Josh Allen in Buffalo.
Speaker 4 (38:01):
Okay, now you're trading up for JJ mccartis.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
You said it.
Speaker 4 (38:04):
You say it all the time.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Three or four quarterbacks in the top ten, there's gonna
be a bust or two.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
And I think, hey, Carolina was a weak roster. They
gave up a bunch of picks to go up. And
then you got a quarterback and you're like, they have
no players.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Just saw this.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
The Giants need players and a new quarterback. You got
to make a pick on well, I mean to me,
they just kick Carolina, New England and the Giants.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
You need more good players, and.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
I'm talking like seven new really good hits in the draft.
Six seven hits, which you can do.
Speaker 8 (38:35):
I mean the.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
Texans have done it. I mean I've seen a lot
of team. You can have great drafts. Seahawks had one
a couple of years ago. They had on five six guys.
But I trading up, so I'm giving up multiple picks.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
I don't have enough dudes.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Final story, this is fun. So Team USA Hoop's been
a big topic all show. They got the roster loaded
beyond belief, better than the dream Team. Lebron, Steph KD
Tatum obviously the headliners. But there's one spot available now.
According to Sham Sharani at Kawhi, Leonard is the leading candidate,
but we know his health is always an issue, Colin,
So here are some names to potentially fill that last spot.
(39:10):
We got Jalen Brunston, who's been a rock star this year,
your buddy Draymond Green, Austin Reeves, the legend, Jimmy Butler,
Trey Young who is an extraordinary player and is like
not even in consideration, really Jalen Brown, Kyrie Irving Darreon Fox,
chet Holmgren, chet Holgren is spicy, Oh, Damian Lillard, Donovan Mitchell.
Speaker 4 (39:33):
I'm glad that they put chet Holgrid on this list
because the more you think he was, like what if
he has an amazing.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Boy, he's a different body type, so like he was
just a different dude.
Speaker 4 (39:44):
I was leaning heavily on another wing for this because
they only really have Lebron Tatum and and kd on
the wing. Two of those guys are thirty.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Five or older. I'm I'm sort of over.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Relying on Kawhi. Is that is that a reasonable take?
Like at some point it's on me, Like to me,
if I'm Balmer, I'm sitting there. Do you remember that
press conference four years ago when he showed up how
crazy he was Mount Balmer erupting Like Microsoft, his reputation
was high energy, high intensity.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Now he's got a.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Really good front office. I love his coach, I love
his president, Lawrence Frank Tylou and there's Paul George I'm
a fan of. But well, this thing hasn't. You can
control engineers a lot easier than NBA stars, because this
thing hasn't worked.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
Well, you mentioned Paul Georgian, like ten years ago.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
He was with the Pacers, went out for like USA
Basketball and had that gruesome broken leg.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
He's a free agent. I don't see him coming out
for this team. I don't know. I mean, they're not
going to invite Kyrie Irving.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
He's too potentially to so.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
I actually think chet Holmgren isn't really an interesting name.
Can play multiple positions, can hit threes. I had not
really considered him beyond the five seconds.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
I thought that Wemby and chet Holmgren in the West
for the next decade. Yeah, I mean, I think because
of Wemby's defensive dominance, people have not paid a ton
of attention to small market.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Okay, see, Holmgren had a great year he did.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
They're a fun watch. I don't know how far they'll
go in the playoffs. Ok case, he's a fun watch.
Speaker 4 (41:09):
You can they should win around the Warriors could push them.
It's interesting. What did you say about Bamber He was
like volcano com.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
I mean he was known as a I mean he
would do these speeches. Bill Gates would step aside. He
would do these speeches where he was sopping wet and
he was getting everybody fired up. And he had this
press conference when he took over the Clippers and it
was contagious. Yeah, And it was funny because years and
years ago before, when he was in Seattle, because I'm
from the Northwest, I had asked a buddy of mine
in the financial world about him and he said, Oh,
he's a basketball junkie. Like he goes to high school
(41:37):
games in Seattle. He was a huge basketball junkie. So,
I mean, Balmer's really into the game. He's like Mark Cuban.
Mark loved the game, Ballmer. A lot of these guys
loved the finances.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Balmer loves the game.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
So basically, I'm like Balmer, Volcanic takes exciting.
Speaker 4 (41:52):
I sweat sometimes during the show.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
I just don't it the billions of dollars, right, I
don't see you too as the same, very.
Speaker 4 (41:57):
Similar, just without the money.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
I'm like, I think a few other times, a little
in better shape, but yeah, I'm good.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
J Mack with the news. Well that's the news, and
thanks for stopping by the herd Line News Fun Show.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
Today boy, Jordan Palmer had I'm gonna put that on
the podcast. If you didn't hear Jordan Palmer just several
really good takes on these quarterbacks and.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
Hit his concern.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
I thought the JJ McCarthy comments by him were right
on where he said. In the NFL, even Lamar Jackson
will not know in warm ups if his run game
will work.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
You have no idea.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
In Michigan, every game he knew, JJ, I got there
like six times the running game's going to work.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
And that's the difference.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
In the NFL, you just don't know until the game starts,
and there's always games. I mean, for years and years,
the bad Jags would give the good Colts fits. Like
there's weird matchups in this league where you just can't
figure it out. Miami for years gave good New England
teams fits. There are just matchup issues in this league
(42:59):
that I mean. The Rams last year were supposed to
be in a rebuild, walked up to very good playoffs
Seattle and hammered him in the Pacific Northwest in the
opening week last year, and you're like.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
What, the Rams have nothing but kids on defense.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
So it's such a situational league in a matchup league,
as I think that was one of the better points
in a while on the show that JJ McCarthy. He
knew exactly what he had every game at Michigan and
in the NFL, even good teams, you have no idea.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
What's going to work.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
Brady got to a Super Bowl against the Giants and
nothing worked. They had Randy Moss couldn't move the ball.
They had played him a month earlier and couldn't move
the ball.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
We'll see them on
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three eastern nine am to noone Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
You know, Jmack and I were just talking about if
you take the best single team ever in the NBA,
because they just announced the USA Olympic team for Paris.
I don't think people realize J Mack made this during
the break how good Klay Thompson was in his prime.
So he was the best or second best defensive two
guard with d Wade Klay Thompson, and he was the
best catch and shoot guy in the league.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
And so you had again when you could use the
hand check.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
The greatest team I've ever seen was the Bulls with
MJ and Pippin.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
And a variety of shooters.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Roden Kucko could hit a three, and there were two versions,
the first three the second three. But if you couldn't
use a hand check, there is no way that team
could beat. Now, think about this as great as Shaq
and Kobe's dynasty was Shack gives you twos. Yeah, he'd
score forty against the Warriors, but he couldn't hit a
free throw, foul him, throw people at him. It would
(01:19):
just be a math equation. Durant three, Clay three, Steph three,
and Draymond was the best defensive player in the league.
I mean they literally had the best shooter ever, the
best shot maker, the best defensive player, the best two
guard in the league, and one of the best coaches.
Jordan's team had the best player in the best robin
and then it was a euro. Rodman was not as
(01:40):
gifted as Draymont, but in the handcheck era, that team was.
I mean, if they could just grab you and push you,
that's when they were great. But as the world evolves
and they take away the hand check, Chicago would have
been absolutely outmanned by those Warrior teams. You just spread
the court up, put KD in the corner, you have
Clay on the wing, catch and shoot. You have Draymond
(02:01):
and Steph doing pick and rolls and constant motion, and
there's nothing Michael can do.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
You can't stay in front of it any.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
It's all match up hunting, Wessie Jalen brunts to do
match up hunting in these playoffs. And if you do
the drop coverage and come back in the lane to
prevent layups, he's just going to make a million mid
range shots, which is what Jordan would have done.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Curry, Klay and Kdre mcckeery. Yeah, it's a math equation.
Shaq couldn't hit free throws late and he gives you twos.
And Jordan and Pippin were two guys so that when
they moved the three point line in, Michael had his
two best three point shooting years. They moved it back out,
he went out v being an average three point shooter.
So a lot of it's just math and analytics and
the game changes.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
I mean, it's like in football, what the Ravens were
allowed to do with Ray Lewis and McAllister and and
you know you're Ed Reid's and Sarah Goose.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
You're not allowed to do that today.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
So in a defensive league, Belichick was unbeatable and the
Ravens were the greatest team ever. So were the Bears.
In modern sports, there are some teams, though, I do
think the Jordan Bulls would still be dominant today. I
just don't think they would have beaten those Warriors. But
I think some of the all time great teams, some
teams just age better than others. I think Jordan's Bulls
(03:11):
teams would age.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Very very well.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Uh, Shaq Kobe teams are interesting. I don't know if
they'd age as well. Shaq couldn't hit a free throw.
That was mostly a two team. I don't know if
they would age well.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Who was their third best player?
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Rick fox Well, Robert rind of Oh I saw or
the other night at the Arena.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
I love Robert, Yeah, Derek Fisher was Fish.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
They had.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
It was a really good team.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Well, they had the best They had the best perimeter
closer in Kobe and the best closer period in Shack.
But the free throw stuff was a real issue. I
covered that Laker Blazer series that went seven games and
it was the Hacker Shacks and Portland out played them
for about sixty percent of the series. They outplayed them,
They had double digit leads. But in the end, you know,
it was Rasheen against Shack. It's you know, it was
(03:57):
a lot of I think it was Steve Smith and Kobe.
It was just like the Lakers had the two best
closers in the series.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
I think Game seven, Portland was up like double digits.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
I thought they outplayed most of the series.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
I remember watching where I was watching that comeback and
the Kobe to Shaq alley, one of my favorite NBA
highlights ever.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
I just was going crazy.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Of course I was behind the basket for that, and
I remember looking at Bob Witch at the GM and
just going great. But I again nothing against Phil Jet,
but the Lakers couldn't stop Rasheen Wallace. He was just
he would get whatever he wanted to get. Lakers were
a very top heavy team. The Blazers were deeper, but
they didn't have Shaq and Kobe. So it's funny when
you go like a not all great team. The Ravens
(04:36):
with Dilford do not age well, right, The Bears football
team with McMahon.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
They do not age well.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
But I think there are certain like I think you
can go back to the Brady dynasties. If you go
back to the Brady teams, they were great situationally, they
could run the ball, they could throw it. The Moss
teams could throw deep. Though they didn't win a Super Bowl.
I think those rate. I mean, let's be honest, Mahomes
couldn't beat Brady in those New England teams in the playoffs.
Remember the Kansas the City game. They got the they
got the overtime coin toss, they got the ball first.
(05:04):
So though I think the Brady dynasty teams really wear well,
I don't think the Ravens do. I don't think the
Bears do. I think the Bulls team wears well because
Kukos could hit a three, Kirk could hit a three,
Paxson could hit a three, Michael occasionally the Blazers game
could hit a three.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
I think they age pretty well.
Speaker 5 (05:22):
Now.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
They had some back to the Basket bigs and Wennington
and yeah whatever. So it's just, you know, it's just
like when I look at certain teams, I think, oh,
that that team would play like certain players. I think
Walter Payton would be a great running back today. I
mean I think he would just his.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
He was rely.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
I've never seen a running back run like that. It
would be a Barry standard. Jim Brown would just he
was fast, big and strong. But I don't think there's
a lot of players when you look at and you're like, yeah,
that's not gonna that's not gonna work today.
Speaker 6 (05:54):
You know.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
So, I mean, I think if you put Cheryl Miller
today would be a great women's basketball and eighty three
she was dominant. She would be dominant today. The way
she handled the ball didn't even look like any other player.
Maya more in any generation would be great. Like you know,
the funny one, the interesting one to me about like
what age is well and what doesn't. So back to
(06:15):
the basket centers would not age as well? Like what
would you do with Kareem? He's a two? So I
always think Kareem is the most fascinating NBA player in
terms of which Kareem.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
There's bucks. There was early lakerss again, he.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Ran the flo Giannis when he was young, I mean
he ran the floor, but most of his career.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
He was the skyhook. What do you do with the skyhook?
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Like, I mean, so you'd go in you're a general manager, like, well,
nobody can stop the two. But he's just a two
and so the last twelve years, so I don't know
exactly how that works. Dwight Howard's career evaporated because he
was a back to the basket center and couldn't do
much facing the hoop, and it's like and he was
the best rebounder, the best shot blocker.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
He had happen. He was almost the best player in
the league for like a three year runn He was unbelievable.
But like Patrick Gowing, what is he in today's head?
Speaker 2 (07:05):
And I love.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Patrick Guing, So I don't think he aged. I'll tell
you a guy that age is great. I'll tell you
a great player in the seventies that would be great today.
Rick Berry. So Rick Berry was pre Larry Bird. Rick
Barry played for the Warriors. He you know the Barry kids.
Rick could shoot a three. Rick was a brilliant passer.
Rick was intense. Rick Berry would age very well. Rick
(07:28):
Barry was Larry Bird. Before Larry Bird. There's been like
three forwards that were different. So Rick Barry was a
forward and he was often the best shooter on the floor.
And then Larry Bird came into the league, and you're
like the best shooter in the games of of three four?
Speaker 5 (07:42):
What?
Speaker 1 (07:43):
And then like Larry Bird would be great today. We
all know that because he could shoot. But Rick Berry
was pre Larry Bird, feisty, shoot pass threes. So Rick
Berry in the seventies. Of all the Stars, Doctor J
I mean, name all the stars. Rick Berry would age
and well today. Larry Bird of the eighty Stars with
age very well today. So there's three forwards in my
(08:05):
life that you're like, what Barry was the first? Bird
was the second, like, how can this guy shoot like that?
And then Lebron was this incredible distributor, ballhandler, and he's
a forward.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
He's six eight and a half two sixty. So, I
mean the game has changed.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
But a lot of these stars, I don't know what
you do with Kareem what would you He's gonna give
you thirty eight.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
They're all twos.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
He's not great at the line, but he's he was
a Remember he was like Wemby and Giannis. He was
a dominant defensive player at the rim. So you couldn't
I mean, if you at a center, you nobody scored low.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
When teach Karee met to shoot threes like Joel Embiid.
Joel Embid, by the way, I looked this up last night.
If do this, Giannis has.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Never shot him well.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Joel Embiid one of five and three pointers at Kansas. Meanwhile,
three years later he's attempting two hundred in the NBA.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Well, Anthony Davis, the Lakers try to move him outside
and he didn't like it, and he wasn't as effective.
And Giannis has never been effective. So I don't think
Karree would have been a three point shooter. I think
one of the things I like about sports is how
people age, like how dynasty's age. Most of the time
they don't age well if you look at the history,
(09:13):
they don't. Not only are people bigger and stronger, but
the games were built for the time. Like Michael Jordan
today would obviously be great, but Michael didn't shoot threes
particularly well. Now he would still be the most competitive,
the most relentless, the best on ball defender, a prolific score.
He would be Aunt Edwards, but a better version. So
(09:33):
that tells me thirty four a game great defense. So
Michael would still be great, but he would live in
a world where Steph Curry would still score faster and
Jokich could still do more well. So if Michael was
in his prime today and Lebron was in his prime
and Jokich was in his prime, Jokic and Lebron would
(09:54):
do more well than Michael because their games just do more.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Well.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
They're both better passers. They're I mean they both see
they both better long distant shooters. So Michael would age well,
but you would see more flaws in Michael's game. He
was never a good long distant shooter. Kobe always had
better range than Michael.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
By the way, there were more All Stars, probably international
this year than there were the entire league. When Michael
Jordan was winning three straight in the early nineties, there
just weren't European players. There weren't a lot of them
in the league. Like Drazen Petrovic a handle a handle well.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
I mean, think about think about a rim protector in
Jordan's era. To Kenby Montombo can't run the floor like Yanna.
He was like a classic big exactly those guys now Wemby,
look at Wemby into Kemya. It's like a different planet.
It's a different species. I mean, it's just different player totally.
I mean, Wemby can do anything. He can shoot a three,
(10:48):
can run the floor, he can pass, he can handle.
Yo Kich can do everything. To Kenby Mundumbo could dunk
and protect the rim. And so that's what everybody always says,
Oh Jordan, it was different back then. Yes, it was
much less skilled. They did a thirty for thirty documentary
on the Nixon Pacers series. There was one shooter in
the whole series, Reggie Miller. I mean he was the
only I mean, Starks wasn't.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
A great shooter.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
That league back then was Oak Lee and Anthony Mason,
and it was tough guys that nobody could shoot.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
They clogged the lane. Go look at the games on
NBA TV.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
It's like five guys basically one foot in the lane,
packing the paint. No layups allowed with They're daring people
to shoot, and people couldn't shoot like not.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
Like they can't today.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Obviously they could make baskets, but is it just the
shooting Michael.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Michael would not have been allowed to hand check, and
Michael would have been forced to guard in the perimeter.
So whereas Michael could hand check you and then just
direct you into his bigs, Michael now wouldn't have the
bigs behind him because they're guarding their big out of
the lane.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
Horace Grant's not camped out in the lane.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Well, Michael's one on one and here comes a guard
and Michael can't touch him, and he would fly past Michael.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
There's a reason Tyrese Maxey who you love, I mean
you talk to well.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
You can't stand in front of Tyree when.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
He drives the lane.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
There's nobody there because in beads outside waiting, you gotta
guard him.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Yeah, so it's a it's I mean really different. Like
Lebron is a classic tet. Lebron would age in Airny
era because Lebron could have played bullyball because of his
size six nine two fifty and his skillet. He would
have been great in the seventies, eighties nineties. Michael would
be great now, but there would be flawed. There would
be things Michael would not do as well as other people.
(12:25):
I mean, there's no disputing that Michael was never a
great three point shooter.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Like what would what does Lebron do now?
Speaker 1 (12:31):
That wouldn't work in the seventies, eighties nineties he would
be bigger, stronger, faster and shoot better than ninety nine
percent of the league. Michael today, even with practice, would
never be a great long distance shooter. And if you're not,
there are limitations on I mean again, people would just
beg Michael hit.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
The mid ring, but he hit six threes against Portland
in one half and now he's a great thing. You know,
it's just people forget about every other game.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Yeah, they're just kind of riffing today.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
I don't think the audience is going to love that one.
That's just my guess. Don't go on social media after
this segment.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Well I don't go, but I'm just saying it would.
Am I wrong?
Speaker 1 (13:07):
No, So the moral of the story is not all
dynasties are the same. Some age well, some don't. Not
all stars age well. Walter Payton would be the best
running back in the NFL today. It's not a doubt
in my mind his strength. I mean, go look at
the video. He was literally strongest running over running past Megan.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Okay, so you did make a comment yesterday about McCaffrey.
You said you saw him at UFC and you were like,
that's a second since we think Peyton, and I was
gonna be like, oh, hold up, Barry Sanders, Adrian Peterson.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
There several guys who have been amazing. Adrian Peterson works
in any era, would be.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
There's no question, no question, but McCaffrey's ability to catch
the ball. McCaffrey's a wide receiver. He's literally a wide
receiver who plays running back with elite like Olympic speed
in the prime. I mean, there's nothing there he can
The best three I've seen are Walter McCaffrey and Bear Sanders.
Adrian Peterson was he ran angry and he ran hard,
(14:03):
but there were fumbles. I don't know if he was
He wasn't much of a pass catcher, not at all.
He was just a freight train.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
He was.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
He was kind of here's my like Derrick Henry, here's
my style. But I mean McCaffrey could literally split out.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
I'll tell you.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
The most underrated back ever was Edgerin James. Edgerin James
could have made the NFL. I'd argue as like a linebacker,
a return guy, a slot receiver or running back.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Edgerin James was insane.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Can I interest you in Bo Jackson? I know that
he didn't last long because the injuries, but at his height.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Oh pretty good. He was pretty good. Unstopped, like literally unstopped.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Springtime's a perfect time to give a fresh look at
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He's a co back consultant, the founder of the Quarterback
(15:02):
Summit training Quarterback Draft Prospects since twenty fourteen.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
It's Jordan Palmer.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
He's worked with Mahomes and Joe Burrow and Josh Allen
and Trevor Lawrence, so you know a lot of this stuff.
I was saying about JJ McCarthy that if you look
at the last ten drafts, we have twelve quarterbacks that
I would view as a substantial hit. The higher end
is Mahomes, the lower end could be maybe a Dak
but sil very very good player.
Speaker 5 (15:28):
A hit.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
And the only common thread it's not the school they
went to, it's not the size. The common hit is
they came out and they did one of two things
in college. They either elevated pretty average teammates or they
were on a stack roster and put up cartoon numbers.
Hurtz Kyler Burrow with JJ McCarthy, he got the stacked
(15:54):
roster and wasn't wildly productive, and that worries me a
little when I go back to the last ten drafts,
is that you know, Burrow out of stack roster. He
got sixty five touchdowns, which in the SEC doesn't even
make sense.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
It's like a video game.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Should I be a little concerned that they didn't ask
him to kind of carry him? And in the NFL,
I mean, Jordan, that's kind of a game for a
young quarterback, isn't it?
Speaker 5 (16:20):
Yeah? It really is.
Speaker 6 (16:21):
And I think what I'm about to say has nothing
to do with jj It's not his fault. In fact,
he's the defending national champion and just went fifteen to zero.
But you know, before each game at Michigan, when you
know Harvaugh's hitting his pads and all that stuff in pregame,
there was an understanding that they were going to rush
(16:42):
for twohundred fifty yards and that the defense wasn't going
to stop them on the ground.
Speaker 5 (16:47):
And this is not his.
Speaker 6 (16:49):
Fault, right, He's part of a great organization. He was
a big part of that run game. There's a lot
of run checks that fall on him. There's his threat
as a runner that creates advantages for Blake Korham and
other runners.
Speaker 5 (16:59):
So it's actually he's a part of why it happened.
Speaker 6 (17:04):
I wouldn't fault somebody on not having the video game
numbers if they weren't asked to. Now, had we seen
games where they asked him to throw it forty times
and he just completed half of them and threw two picks,
then that'd be different. That never happened. And so unfortunately,
when you're drafting anybody at the top, you have to
make assumptions because we don't have we can't see how
(17:25):
they were in the NFL different than a free agency
we can literally look at how you stack up against
NFL defenses. We can't do that in the draft. That's
why it's an imperfect science. I heard some stat that
forty four percent I think of. This might be wrong
in fact check me, but it was forty four percent
I think of, like the last top ten picks in
the last ten years didn't pan out. So whatever that
stat is, where you go, oh man, there's a lot
(17:46):
of busts. It's because people are making assumptions. And the
biggest assumption that needs to be made with JJ is
that in all fifteen of those games, they knew they
were going to run the ball right down their opponent's throat,
and in the NFL, depending on your situation, there are
quarterbacks start every game of the season and they don't
know until the second.
Speaker 5 (18:02):
Quarter if the run game is gonna work today.
Speaker 6 (18:05):
And that's not an over exaggeration, and so how you
have to win in the league. We all say third
down is the most important down in football and all that,
I agree, but you're just not gonna know. Lamar Jackson
this next season will not know beyond a shadow of
it out that the run game is gonna work every
single week like in warm ups.
Speaker 5 (18:25):
He won't.
Speaker 6 (18:26):
And that's we'd all argue is the best run game
in the league. And so that's the big hurdle. We
know how he can play against competition because he won
a national title and he played in the Big Ten
and you know, and it has played at a really
high level consistently since he stepped foot on campus.
Speaker 5 (18:40):
But that's the biggest assumption that teams.
Speaker 6 (18:43):
Whoever's gonna draft, you know, trade up or take him,
is making an assumption that this guy can play if
the game's on his shoulders to win it.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
In the air.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
So the acc is has been down for several years
and Drake May was really in consistent in that very
average conference, whereas a bow Nicks and a Michael Pennix
were wildly consistent in maybe the best PAC twelve I've
seen in fifteen years. And so I look at Drake Man,
I'm like, man, even in his pro day, I'm like,
(19:16):
should I be worried about that? Or is he just
a developing player with great traits who will figure it out?
Speaker 2 (19:22):
What? What do you think?
Speaker 5 (19:23):
Jordan?
Speaker 6 (19:25):
Every single guy that we're going to talk about today
and fast forward the last years of you and I
talking about the draft picks.
Speaker 5 (19:30):
Is the developmental guy. Kiboy is the developmental guy.
Speaker 6 (19:33):
These guys are transitioning from i'll put air quotes amateur
to professional football. It's a new it's a new sport.
There's different rules, there's different things on the line. You're
asked to do things different, Your week is different. I
literally in my pitch deck when I if I sit
down and pitch a guy for draft prop, I literally
have all the things that are new. You know, new coverages,
(19:55):
new team, new city, new responsibility. There's a lot of
newness that comes. So before I dive into this, they're
all in a developmental stage, and nobody's a finished product.
But what I would say with Drake is for me,
this is one hundred percent a when, not an if.
He is absolutely I think has all of the physical
and then the mental, his emotional makeup.
Speaker 5 (20:17):
He's you.
Speaker 6 (20:18):
If you get a chance to spend time with this
guy called you are going to He's gonna be.
Speaker 5 (20:21):
One of my favorite guys.
Speaker 6 (20:22):
Just knowing you and knowing how you know what you
like and don't like, and some of the players that
you like that other people don't.
Speaker 5 (20:28):
You would love this dude.
Speaker 6 (20:29):
He's very philip rivers in the room, great energy, great
aura around him. Now on the physical side, mechanics, I
do think there's things to clean up. There's got there's
things on in Caleb and other people's games as well.
So this is one hundred percent the fit is he
asked to start right away in a terrible situation. I
think it could go poorly this first year. Yeah, is
(20:50):
he able to learn? And I know we all want
to say that I want to sit and learn, but
is this guy able to really truly develop?
Speaker 5 (20:55):
Is there a developmental plan in place for him? Uh?
Speaker 6 (20:58):
And the majority of throws that quarterbacks make are uncontested,
So think about it like this In basketball, there's really
three types of shots. There's an uncontested shot, you come
off a screen, you're wide open, you shoot it. There's
a contested shot, right you gotta go somebody's hand in
your face. And then you turn a contested shot into
an uncontested shot. So that's what a step back is,
That's what a fadeaway is. I think it's the same
(21:19):
thing for quarterbacks. You drop back, quick game, bubble screens,
clean pocket, that's an uncontested throw. Now, every quarterback also
has to make a determination that they're willing to step
into a throw and they know they're gonna get hit.
Guys that we're going to talk about today are all
past that. And then there's the subtle movements where you
turn an uncontested throw into or i'm sorry, a contested
throat into an uncontested throw. And when guys are inconsistent
(21:42):
in their movements, that's where a lot of misses happen
on some really good players on Sundays even and I
have a lot of inbound clients right now, guys who
play on Sundays because of that methodology and that idea
that how do I turn every throw into an uncontested one,
and how do I make sure that I repeat those
patterns from It's a matter of time with Drake, and
(22:02):
so he's able to do that consistently, and when he does,
he's got so much of the other stuff that somebody's
definitely gonna find their franchise guy in Drake may So.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
One of the criticisms I've heard with Michael Pennix and
I understand your last game gets magnified, but people said, yeah,
we liked him.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
But when he faced Michigan and I think time out,
they had eighteen pros, Washington had six. Let's slow down.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Michigan was way better and Washington was good, but they
didn't have the same number of athletes. The second thing
I hear is, well, you know you can take he
doesn't throw the ball well underneath. And my take is,
I'd rather have a guy that can throw a deep ball.
I'll teach the drag route too. If you can't throw
it deep in quindy weather, Tua, I'm not getting it
(22:48):
from you. So the Pinnick stuff, sometimes I'm like, boy,
are we just crushing the kid? On losing the Michigan
Ohio State CJ. Stroud didn't beat Michigan. What are we
talking about? Where do you land on Panics as a prospect.
Speaker 6 (23:04):
I really like Penix's game. One of the things you'll
hear consistently is I go around to do pro day's
and talk to coaches. It's pretty unanimous that he's got
unique arm talent and unique in terms of the best
or the second best in this class, one of the
best in a lot of classes.
Speaker 5 (23:21):
It just looks different coming out of his hand. It does,
and you're spot on.
Speaker 6 (23:24):
I mean the amount of times that they push the
ball down the field. Now, I will say Oregon and
Washington did a fantastic job from a schematic standpoint, Yeah,
of number one or number two in the progression being
open a lot, you can't fault the quarterback on that.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (23:36):
But they when you look at bo Nix's completion percentage,
that the numbers that both of them put up number
one and number two. These wheel routes, these sale routes,
these fades, these slot fades. These were highly thrown balls.
But I don't care if you're throwing to Rome, you know,
a duneesa or not. The ball hitting these guys in
the face and it's right on the money. I love
(23:58):
Penix's game. The only real question marks, and I'm not
in a position to have an answer on it, is
you know, he's had multiple injuries, but then he went
and played two healthy seasons, and so I think that's
the biggest thing that teams are going to go through
is the age the injuries Now, injuries your last two
seasons is very different than injuries before two healthy seasons. Yeah,
(24:18):
but it's still going to be factored in. But number
one and number two in Washington and Oregon's offense, they
did a fantastic job of scheming those guys open. But
it's not a knock on Michael Pennock Junior because he
still delivered the ball accurately. And in terms of losing
to Michigan, one of the things you get when you're
at Michigan and you enter the playoffs is you've already
played a game that's the same magnitude as a playoff game.
(24:40):
That Michigan Ohio State game is damn near a playoff game.
It's the same atmosphere, it's the same prep, it's the
same pressure. Losing to Ohio State when you're Michigan or
vice versa is kind of like getting knocked out of
the playoffs the first round, so there's the same amount
on the line. So I just look at an organization
in Michigan who had an extra game of that magnitude
as good as Washington Oregon was when they played each
(25:02):
other this year, it wasn't the same magnitude.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Finally, and we're listening. You're listening on radio to Jordan Palmer,
a founder of Quarterback Summit, that it really is the
go to place in America if you're a quarterback, that
the teaching is remarkable. Mahomes, Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, and
we've leaned on him for years. So now and I'm
going to go back years ago, I had the great
(25:25):
honor to interview on the air a president, President Obama,
and I remember asking him a question. I said, you're
the first president who was dealt with social media and
the vulgarity and the vile nature of it. And I
just asked, what is that like you, Jimmy Carter Reaganton,
nobody dealt with that nonsense.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
And we talked about that, and.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I always think about this, the first to deal with
anything is different. Caleb Williams is twenty one, twenty twenty
three years old. He's the first NIL superstar. He's the
first five million dollar college athlete, And I'm like, did
he show some personality? I mean, in college, I was
scrambling for a five dollar biller by pizza. He's making
(26:08):
millions of dollars on things, and so some of the
criticisms are he's kind of got an edge, he's kind
of cocky, and I'm like, well, if I was twenty
two and had four million dollars from United Airlines and
do you look at that? Some of the players in
Caleb Williams of criticisms, he's very emotional, got a little attitude.
Do you just think that to who he is? Does
(26:28):
NIL account for that? What do you make of those criticisms.
Speaker 6 (26:33):
I don't make anything of the criticisms because it's really
just people's opinions and the word, the definition of the
word opinion is a factor information about somebody, not necessarily
based on fact or knowledge.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Right.
Speaker 6 (26:44):
I actually talk at my QB summit camps a lot
about this concept of fear of other people's opinions and
what we can do with it. I just think Caleb's
built to handle it and actually steps into it. Been
around him since high school, when you're the number one
recruit in the country and the Elite eleven MVP and
choosing which school you want to go to and all
the hype that actually does prepare you for stardom. And
(27:06):
when you're in high school, I think I've talked about
this with you before, and you go to a seven
on seven tournament and you're the number one kid. Everybody's
like trying to pick you off, and when they do,
it's going to go on social media. So at sixteen seventeen,
it really prepares you for the stardom of being the
face not of USC but the face of college football,
which is what he was for the last two years,
and not the first quarterback to be the face of
(27:26):
college football, but it prepares you for that. And then
if you look at the money that he's made, whatever
that actual number is, and the pressure of winning a
Heisman and coming back the next year even though your
team's not that great and it's really hard to repeat,
and you know they didn't win the conference and it
wasn't all it's not like he just went undefeated and
(27:47):
won the championships both years. There was some failure, There
was some they didn't win these games. They couldn't beat
Utah there, so he had to deal with success and adversity.
And there might be things that he's done that people
don't like. They may not like the nail polish or
the phone or whatever, but I think these things are
irrelevant because what you really want is somebody who can
step in to the arena that is number one pick,
(28:10):
franchise quarterback and all the scrutiny and all the love
and all the attention that comes with it, who actually
wants it and actually can welcome it and has a
process in a couple of years of dealing with it.
The concern when you take somebody from a small school
from a one year in the you know, in college football,
(28:30):
which we've seen. We've seen Miss Trubisky only start twelve
or thirteen games. Anthony Richardson didn't start a ton of games.
We've seen a lot of guys. Look at the way
that it's played out with Trey Lance, right, small school,
not a lot of games. You're assuming they can take
on all this other stuff that comes with the position.
And I think with Caleb, the magnitude of his brand
(28:53):
going back to high school and how he's handled it
every single year. I think the Bears, if they take
him at one, are going to know exactly what are
going to get. And I went I was a Bear
and I went to the Bears from Jacksonville and it
went from being three people interviewing you to two hundred
people in the room. And I couldn't believe that those
two teams are in the same league. It was such
a different experience. Yeah, I'm not exaggerating. I think Caleb, uniquely,
(29:16):
more so than most of these guys in the last
few years, is built to handle that. That's the crown
coming off like he's ready to handle it.
Speaker 5 (29:24):
And the Bears are going to know that.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
You're so good at what you do.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Quarterback consultant, Quarterback Summit, training, Draft prospects for now a
decade of doing it. And that's a that is a
golf simulator in front of him. So if you think
he's somewhere in the country where it's dusk, it's not.
It's just a golf simulator part of some company you're
part of. What's that company again?
Speaker 5 (29:44):
Yeah, Full Swing golf simulators, best in the business.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
There. You go, good seeing him, My man as always
great work. I mean Jordan Palmer.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
That's a great way of putting it. Like he is
some guy like that. You take these small like Carson
Wentz was a small school guy. You got him to Philadelphia,
which is a lot out of city in the country,
and it's eight hundred people at every press car and
it was like whoa, whoa, it's a lot to deal with.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Some people are you know?
Speaker 1 (30:08):
And here was Carson West, small town guy, liked hunting fish.
All of a sudden, Philadelphia media is just coming fangs,
They're coming after you. J Max used to be in
that Philadelphia media. These are not good people.
Speaker 4 (30:22):
I was in the urbs.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
I was part of the Philadelphia media enough that I
got to play in a pickup media game at the
Sixers whatever it's called Speca.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
It's a different ballgame. Carson went a small town to.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
That he could not handle it. It's okay to say that, Like,
you know, he wasn't.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Ready for it. Rock Purty, San Francisco media is ready
for it. Bring it out?
Speaker 4 (30:43):
Would you say it something nice about Rock Party?
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Wow, We take a break Herdline News next. Be sure
to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in Noone
Eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio FS one
and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
Two NBA Insiders podcasting twice a week to plug you
right into the NBA grape Fine.
Speaker 7 (31:03):
All happening in only one place. This League Uncut, the
new NBA podcast with Me, Chris.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Haynes and Me.
Speaker 7 (31:11):
Mark Stein join us as we team up to expound
on everything we're covering. Hearing and Chason.
Speaker 4 (31:17):
Listen to This League Uncut with Chris Haynes and Mark Stein.
Speaker 7 (31:21):
On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Sunday on fox The Stars of Nascar at Talladega for
the biggest thrill ride of the year. The Free Show
kicks things off at two Eastern, then the Green Flag
flies at three eastern Sunday on Foxy.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
All right, j Mac, if you sat and listened to
Jordan Palmer, give you a critique. I love what he
said about like Michael Pennock, I do think sometimes the
last game you watch is a bit of an eye opener.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Sometimes it benefits you. CJ.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Stroud when he ran against Georgia, you're like, oh, Justin
Herbert ran against Wisconsin, and then you watch Michael Pennix,
It's like, well, Michigan really ate them alive. Yeah, the
game before he ate Texas alive. The game before that,
he ate Oregon alive. So it's like the last three games,
two of them. He was unbelievable and the best team
in the country that beat Alabama, that literally hammered OSU.
(32:20):
The last two years, the buck Eyes, they lose to
almost nobody. Ohio State couldn't beat Michigan. They pull away
both years in the second half run over them. Yeah,
Pennix wasn't great against them, Well.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Who was?
Speaker 1 (32:34):
I mean, TCU had a great game plan in a
great game full of NFL players the year before against Michigan,
but they just rolled.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Through people for two years. Everybody Jmack with the news,
this is the herd line news.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
And I remember last year TCU had a month to
prepare for that semi final.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
In this one, Penix only had what like six a.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Week And go back to that tc tc But how
many pros were on that team?
Speaker 4 (33:02):
Yeah, well pen has I'm not making an excuses.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Pennix has two receivers who are going to be drafted,
you know, but they didn't have Michigan's personnel. No, and
Michigan was totally stacked anyways, So NFL Draft next week
I mentioned Peter Schrager of Fox dropped his latest mock.
We've done yours mine, everybody's. Here's Schrager coming off the
top rope with a shocker. The New York Giants move
(33:26):
up to four for J. J.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
McCarty. I don't like it.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
I'll give Schrager this.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
He is a New York City guy, He's been around
the Giants for a while. I'm assuming this isn't coming
out of nowhere, and there's probably some smoke here, I think.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
So you're gonna have to give up major draft cap
and a lot of team that has like three great
players and just lost Barkley.
Speaker 4 (33:47):
You just have to say.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
Brian Dabeles says I can make him a star, and
you have to trust dabel I don't doubt dabel That
would drop Marvin Harrison to the Chargers.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
You know the Chargers have a history of Stanton put
and getting Herbert Derwin, James and Rashaun Slater.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Tallasco didn't move a lot.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
He'd sitting wait and he got great players every year,
like last year was a miss. It looks like I'm
the number one, But they weren't hyper aggressive, and they
got Herbert, a left tackle and one of the best
athletes at safety in a decade.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Yeah, there's some chatter that Malik Neighbors is going to
be the guy in Arizona. Schrager has Rome of Dooonsday
now that could if Rome doesn't go six, he could
fall to my Jets.
Speaker 4 (34:30):
At ten, Schrager has Rock Bowers to the Jets. Listen,
we love Bowers. We'll watch them all season. I just
don't know about a tight end at ten. I'm fine
being wrong. I'll root for Bowers.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Well, if you have Breese Hall, So Aaron Rodgers gets
Breese Hall. Garrett Wilson, Mike Williams probably the best tight
end of the college.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
Tut what did we talk about last year with this
team no offensive line?
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Okay, and then Morgan Moses and went and got two tackles.
It is a tackle rich draft.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
There's gonna be tackles in the third, fourth, fifth, sixth,
seventh rounds and you're not asking him to start. Tyron
Smith will start at left tackle. He will start. So
the question becomes, you do need to have somebody that's
ready to go by Thanksgiving. But if you're telling me
Aaron Rodgers has a star running back, a star number one,
a red zone Mike Williams matchup advantage, an elite tight end.
(35:23):
That's a different roster. They know we like their defensive roster.
That's a That's a hell of an off season.
Speaker 4 (35:30):
The most practical move I got.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Can't hate it.
Speaker 6 (35:32):
I guess the.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Jets for second.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
If that happened, I think brought back the entire I
think Buffalo Buffalo wins the division. Jets second, because I'm
really cool on the Jets.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
They just don't have enough.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
But Brock Barrowers would walk into this league potentially beat
a seventy catch tight end.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
They Jets don't have enough.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
What offense?
Speaker 1 (35:53):
They're a twisted ankle de Bresee Hall from being airon
throw at forty four times.
Speaker 4 (35:59):
What happened to Positive first? It's like if you goes down,
if he's hauled twisted his ankle, Like, come on man.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Anyways, Schrager has bon Knicks to Minnesota.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
I believe at twenty two twenty well, I think anybody
that goes to minnisos I would love to see that
because I think bon Knicks needs the right fit. But
I think that'd be great, that'd be exciting. Like boy Schragers.
He knows New York teams. He wrote Out of the Blue,
he wrote a Giants book. He's got good sourcing.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
I don't know how Giants fans will feel, but I
don't really care about them anyways. Let's move on. Oh more.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
New York Giants content Daniel Jones is making his way
back from a torn acl last season. He's expecting to
be ready for training camp. Talking to the media Monday,
Daniel Jones addressed the reports that New York could draft
a quarterback.
Speaker 5 (36:43):
M yeah, I feel you're the best quarterback that.
Speaker 8 (36:49):
The Giants can have with I do, yes, And it's
a competitive league, so uh, you know, the best way
to handle that, I think is to focus on what
I'm doing, focus on myself and making sure that i'm
you know, one healthy and then ready to play good football.
So you know, that's what I can control. That's what
(37:10):
what I can do to to help myself and the team.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
So if you're watching at home, I'm sure you saw
the look he had the wide eyes when asked about
did you see?
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Yeah? I did.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
What'd you make of it?
Speaker 3 (37:24):
It's it's just a tough spot for the guy. Elliston,
I'm not the biggest Daniel Jones fan. As you know,
you're trying to look up what his major was in college.
It probably doesn't matter. He looks like a smart individual.
He has to know what's up.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Of course he.
Speaker 4 (37:37):
We moved off Squon, You're next.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Yeah, I mean, that's just I don't mean to be harsh,
but like, well, if Schrager's right, so you're you're talking
about a team that really is at the bottom of
the league with Carolina for offensive weapons, and you're gonna
give up picks to get JJ.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
McCarthy and now you have a quarterback room.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
That's you stood Davill stood pat for Josh Allen in Buffalo.
Speaker 4 (38:01):
Okay, now you're trading up for JJ mccartis.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
You said it.
Speaker 4 (38:04):
You say it all the time.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Three or four quarterbacks in the top ten, there's gonna
be a bust or two.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
And I think, hey, Carolina was a weak roster. They
gave up a bunch of picks to go up. And
then you got a quarterback and you're like, they have
no players.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Just saw this.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
The Giants need players and a new quarterback. You got
to make a pick on well, I mean to me,
they just kick Carolina, New England and the Giants.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
You need more good players, and.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
I'm talking like seven new really good hits in the draft.
Six seven hits, which you can do.
Speaker 8 (38:35):
I mean the.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
Texans have done it. I mean I've seen a lot
of team. You can have great drafts. Seahawks had one
a couple of years ago. They had on five six guys.
But I trading up, so I'm giving up multiple picks.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
I don't have enough dudes.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Final story, this is fun. So Team USA Hoop's been
a big topic all show. They got the roster loaded
beyond belief, better than the dream Team. Lebron, Steph KD
Tatum obviously the headliners. But there's one spot available now.
According to Sham Sharani at Kawhi, Leonard is the leading candidate,
but we know his health is always an issue, Colin,
So here are some names to potentially fill that last spot.
(39:10):
We got Jalen Brunston, who's been a rock star this year,
your buddy Draymond Green, Austin Reeves, the legend, Jimmy Butler,
Trey Young who is an extraordinary player and is like
not even in consideration, really Jalen Brown, Kyrie Irving Darreon Fox,
chet Holmgren, chet Holgren is spicy, Oh, Damian Lillard, Donovan Mitchell.
Speaker 4 (39:33):
I'm glad that they put chet Holgrid on this list
because the more you think he was, like what if
he has an amazing.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Boy, he's a different body type, so like he was
just a different dude.
Speaker 4 (39:44):
I was leaning heavily on another wing for this because
they only really have Lebron Tatum and and kd on
the wing. Two of those guys are thirty.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Five or older. I'm I'm sort of over.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Relying on Kawhi. Is that is that a reasonable take?
Like at some point it's on me, Like to me,
if I'm Balmer, I'm sitting there. Do you remember that
press conference four years ago when he showed up how
crazy he was Mount Balmer erupting Like Microsoft, his reputation
was high energy, high intensity.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Now he's got a.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Really good front office. I love his coach, I love
his president, Lawrence Frank Tylou and there's Paul George I'm
a fan of. But well, this thing hasn't. You can
control engineers a lot easier than NBA stars, because this
thing hasn't worked.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
Well, you mentioned Paul Georgian, like ten years ago.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
He was with the Pacers, went out for like USA
Basketball and had that gruesome broken leg.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
He's a free agent. I don't see him coming out
for this team. I don't know. I mean, they're not
going to invite Kyrie Irving.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
He's too potentially to so.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
I actually think chet Holmgren isn't really an interesting name.
Can play multiple positions, can hit threes. I had not
really considered him beyond the five seconds.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
I thought that Wemby and chet Holmgren in the West
for the next decade. Yeah, I mean, I think because
of Wemby's defensive dominance, people have not paid a ton
of attention to small market.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Okay, see, Holmgren had a great year he did.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
They're a fun watch. I don't know how far they'll
go in the playoffs. Ok case, he's a fun watch.
Speaker 4 (41:09):
You can they should win around the Warriors could push them.
It's interesting. What did you say about Bamber He was
like volcano com.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
I mean he was known as a I mean he
would do these speeches. Bill Gates would step aside. He
would do these speeches where he was sopping wet and
he was getting everybody fired up. And he had this
press conference when he took over the Clippers and it
was contagious. Yeah, And it was funny because years and
years ago before, when he was in Seattle, because I'm
from the Northwest, I had asked a buddy of mine
in the financial world about him and he said, Oh,
he's a basketball junkie. Like he goes to high school
(41:37):
games in Seattle. He was a huge basketball junkie. So,
I mean, Balmer's really into the game. He's like Mark Cuban.
Mark loved the game, Ballmer. A lot of these guys
loved the finances.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Balmer loves the game.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
So basically, I'm like Balmer, Volcanic takes exciting.
Speaker 4 (41:52):
I sweat sometimes during the show.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
I just don't it the billions of dollars, right, I
don't see you too as the same, very.
Speaker 4 (41:57):
Similar, just without the money.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
I'm like, I think a few other times, a little
in better shape, but yeah, I'm good.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
J Mack with the news. Well that's the news, and
thanks for stopping by the herd Line News Fun Show.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
Today boy, Jordan Palmer had I'm gonna put that on
the podcast. If you didn't hear Jordan Palmer just several
really good takes on these quarterbacks and.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
Hit his concern.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
I thought the JJ McCarthy comments by him were right
on where he said. In the NFL, even Lamar Jackson
will not know in warm ups if his run game
will work.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
You have no idea.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
In Michigan, every game he knew, JJ, I got there
like six times the running game's going to work.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
And that's the difference.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
In the NFL, you just don't know until the game starts,
and there's always games. I mean, for years and years,
the bad Jags would give the good Colts fits. Like
there's weird matchups in this league where you just can't
figure it out. Miami for years gave good New England
teams fits. There are just matchup issues in this league
(42:59):
that I mean. The Rams last year were supposed to
be in a rebuild, walked up to very good playoffs
Seattle and hammered him in the Pacific Northwest in the
opening week last year, and you're like.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
What, the Rams have nothing but kids on defense.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
So it's such a situational league in a matchup league,
as I think that was one of the better points
in a while on the show that JJ McCarthy. He
knew exactly what he had every game at Michigan and
in the NFL, even good teams, you have no idea.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
What's going to work.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
Brady got to a Super Bowl against the Giants and
nothing worked. They had Randy Moss couldn't move the ball.
They had played him a month earlier and couldn't move
the ball.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
We'll see them on
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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