Best of The Herd

In this Best of The Herd, Colin urges the media to stop coddling Indiana Fever star Caitlin Clark after her hard foul incident involving Chennedy Carter of the Chicago Sky. Plus, after one NFL wide receiver just got paid, what do the Cowboys do about CeeDee Lamb's compensation? Also, as we approach the NBA Finals, Colin looks at Dallas guard Kyrie Irving's time in Boston as something to forget. Later, Nick Wright of First Things First joins The Herd to discuss Clark vs. everyone. Finally, James Jones—FS1 analyst and Super Bowl champion—joins Colin to offer a reality check on how historically physical the WNBA has been and more

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
noon Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at
Fox Sportsradio dot com, or stream us live every day
on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
Oh here we go on a Tuesday, live in Los Angeles.
It's the Herd wherever you may be, however you may
be listening. Thanks for making as part of your day.
I love days like today. A sports story becomes a
social story, a cultural story. We try to sort it

(00:49):
out as men lose their minds Nick Right one hour
from now, Jmac Yesterday, the sports world mostly men, overwhelmingly men.
ESBN hosts, others, editorial boards lost their mind. They don't
know how to cover Caitlin Clark of the WNBA. So

(01:11):
I'm gonna I'm gonna try to help help them out. Please,
I'll be the consultant on this. So uh. The Chicago
Tribune editorial board defended Caitlin Clark and said that a
hard foul on her they likened it to an assault.
If this wasn't sports, it would be an assault. No,

(01:32):
it would be a flagrant foul, which the sport penalizes
through free throws. Oh, boy, guys, here's the here's the
ultimate respect that you can give Caitlin Clark. Treat her
like a pro athlete, because that's what she is with
a twenty eight million dollar shoe deal. She's tough and

(01:54):
she's competitive, so is Angel Reese. Stop pandering, stop coddlings,
start stop protecting. WNBA players are pro athletes. We got
a lot of pro leagues all over the world. They're
pro athletes. Now I hear this pushback, Well, how come
you guys didn't cover us before Caitlin Clark because you

(02:15):
weren't that popular. I don't cover hockey because the average
sports fan can't name three players. I don't cover regular
season baseball much. I don't cover college basketball, men's or
women's much before March. I'm in the omelet business. I'm
not in the egg business. You need to be made
before I talk about you. It's not my job to

(02:35):
make you popular, So I will push back on you.
Didn't talk about you. I didn't talk much golf until
Tiger Woods arrived. This league needed a catalyst. WNBA got
better and better and better, and so did women's basketball.
I've talked about this for fifteen years. It's the most
improved sport in my lifetime. More young women, multiple generations

(02:57):
are encouraged now to get into sports, and basketball has
taken off. The league just needed a catalyst and they
got it, and now we talk about it. But let's
stop treating these pro athletes more like the women part
instead of the pro athlete part. Caitlin Clark is acknowledged

(03:20):
she played with boys. She's rough, she can be intimidating.
There's footage on the internet of her shoving college players
to the floor. There's also a racial component in this
with her and Angel Reeves and Kennedy Carter that's undeniable.
But she's become a screen that everybody is projecting what
they want her to be instead of what she is.

(03:42):
Tough as nails, great professional athlete, and let's not be
pandering and cringey and weird. Just treat her like a
pro basketball player. She's got a twenty eight million dollar
shoe deal, four or five national endorsements. She's going to
be fine. I loved I loved Kennedy Carter, you know,

(04:05):
the one that assaulted her. I loved her pushback on
this entire situation.

Speaker 3 (04:13):
At the end of the.

Speaker 4 (04:13):
Day, it's all love. Outside of basketball, well we're in
those core lines. It's smoke after. It's all love. I
promise we're a genuine team, We're a genuine person. We're
not We didn't hit her like she was out on
the street. It just happened.

Speaker 3 (04:27):
Like it's over with.

Speaker 4 (04:28):
I don't know what we're dragging it, but we could
see to jag A plake that happened in a whole
fourth quarter happened after that. Multiple events happened after that, guys,
So we just got to let that play go.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
These women are not fragile. Some of you men who
are covering them are. Phil Knight's opening manifesto at Nike.
He wrote ten things when he started the company, and
number nine is my favorite. It won't be pretty. The
WNBA is exploding in popularity, and it's gonna be turbulent.

(05:00):
A tech business, a media business. Whenever anything goes from
semi noticeable to really popular, it's turbulent. You see it
with individuals in the entertainment business. Now you're seeing it
with a league. It's a little turbulent, it's a quickly
ascending business, and they're never pretty and they're going through

(05:24):
their ugly stage right here with the media doesn't know
what to ask and it's cringey and it's assault and
they're defending it. But I love Angel Reese coming out.
Her and Caitlin Clark go back to college and she
gets it. She understands what I talked about yesterday. She's
willing to play the villain. There are no great movies
without conflict. The more conflict, the more villains, the better

(05:50):
the script, the better the streaming movie. And here's Angel
Reese on this entire period we're going through with the
WNBA and Eitlyn Clark.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
It all started from the National Championship game.

Speaker 5 (06:03):
And I've been dealing with this for two years now
and understanding, like, yeah, negative things have probably been said
about me, but honestly, I'll take that because look where
women's basketball is. People are talking about women's basketball. You
never would think that we talk about women's basketball. People
are pulling up to games. We got celebrities coming to games,
soda arenas, like just because of one single game and
just looking at that like, I'll take that role. I'll

(06:25):
take the bad guy role, and I'll continue to take
that on and be that for my teammates. And if
I want to be that, and I know I'll go
down in history, I'll look back in twenty years and
be like, Yeah, the reason why we're watching women's basketball
is not just because of one person.

Speaker 3 (06:36):
It's because of me too. And I want you to
realize that.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
She's gonna be the villain. She's gonna be the Draymond Green. Now,
Caitlyn Clark. Maybe she has the potential to be the
star that's scoring all the points, but there's always somebody
who makes movies and sports in a seven game series
in March madness, more come. I love. The fact is

(07:03):
this sport explodes and nobody in the media quite knows
how to handle it. Mostly guys, we're not quite sure
how to handle it. At WNBA, you got players saying
it's all love. We didn't do it. In the street.
You got another one saying I'll be the villain. Kayln
Clark said, yeah, it's no big deal. I get knocked
out all the time. I've pushed people. They're not fragile.

(07:24):
We are they're tough, they're defiant, They're gonna be fine.
Embrace them, have a good time. They're pro athletes. Kaylin
Clark doesn't mind getting pushed down. She'll push right back,
She'll get free throws. Angel Reese, I'll be the villain.
Kennedy Carter. Well, you guys talking about it still we

(07:45):
moved on. It's all love. You understand what's happening here.
These pro athletes get it. We're struggling to figure it out.
Speaking of figured it out. Fear dryas a lot of decisions,
and people are afraid of different things. Public speaking. I

(08:07):
don't even like public speaking. This isn't public speaking. I'm
talking to a camera. I don't like standing in front
of people talking. People don't like to fly and in business,
and I think social media has increased this. People don't
like to be humiliated. People don't like to take big
swings and fail and get ridiculed on social media. Be
one thing years ago. If you're a GM twenty five

(08:29):
thirty years ago, you make a move and you get ripped,
and maybe ESPN sports spender and spends a segment on it.
Now a million, two million, three million people. Avalanche comes
flying down the hill making fun of you. But if
you take the fear out, most of it doesn't really exist.
I talked about this last week. There's a study that

(08:50):
eighty to eighty five percent of things that create anxiety
and fear in our minds never materialize. They never happen.
So the Cowboys have to pay Ceedee Lamb. He hasn't
shown up to camp, and yesterday I led the show
with a Justin Jefferson contract thirty five million a year. Well,

(09:13):
he was drafted same year as Ceedee Lamb and Ceedee Lamb.
All his numbers look a lot like Justin Jefferson, except
CD plays for a bigger brand. Ceed never gets hurt.
CD's getting better every year. Ceedee Lamb and Justin Jefferson.
I'm putting them on the screen. Radio listeners, I apologize,

(09:33):
same dude. One plays for a bigger brand. If you're
going to sign Micah and you have to, and you're
going to sign Cede Lamb and you should, you may
have to walk away from Dak and that scares people.
But the Vikings pretty well run franchised. Just walked away
from Kirk Cousins. The Seahawks walked away from Russell Wilson

(09:55):
and made the playoffs. The Packers walked away from Aaron
Rodgers and the playoffs too. We have more quarterbacks than
ever coming out of college. The twenty eighteen class gave
us Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Baker Mayfield, even Sam Darnold
starting again. The twenty twenty class didn't even have a bust.

(10:15):
It went five for five Burrow two of Herbert Love
Hurtz no busts. Add on to that, the quarterback coaching
is better than ever, so you get players who missed
initially or wobbled initially, like Geno Smith and Baker Mayfield,
that become reclamation projects. You also have in the NFL

(10:37):
more empowerment for star players. At least one star quarterback
a year walks once out Aaron Stafford, Brady Russell, Wilson.
Take a deep breath. You're gonna have to pay CD Lamb,
You're gonna have to pay Micah their top two or
three in the sport at their position. What you don't

(11:00):
have to pay is fifty eight million dollars to a
quarterback that just got housed at home by young Jordan Love,
the youngest Packer playoff team ever and one of the
youngest playoff teams since the nineteen seventy Bills. It's all
this fear about what to do. Look at what quarterback

(11:21):
classes have given us twenty eighteen, twenty twenty. Look at
this class. Bo Nicks, Caleb, Jaden Daniels, Pennix, JJ McCarthy,
Drake May more quarterbacks, better coaching. Take a deep breath,
but you're gonna have to pay Cedee Lamb. He's the
closest thing statistically in this league to Justin Jefferson. And

(11:44):
what's interesting about that comm is that if you take
Dak's stats, they're nearly identical to Kirk Cousins, who is
Justin Jefferson's quarterback. Through all of this fear drives a
lot of decisions, more good young quarterbacks, more excellent quarterback coaching.

(12:04):
What you can't do If I'm going to defend the
Vikings signing Justin Jefferson, I'm a hypocrite not to do
the same with the Cowboys and CD Lamb, Jmack. Hopefully
the media gets their bearings on the WNBA, and.

Speaker 6 (12:21):
I'm not bloody likely. I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Speaker 4 (12:26):
Man.

Speaker 6 (12:26):
This is this is a bit of a mess.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
You know what, May through September, you and I are
looking for things to talk about. Yeah, this has been
in my world. I've had seven or eight WNBA topics
in my business. The easy parts, like being an accountant
in April. The easy part for me is Labor day

(12:48):
till March first, That is the easy part. Then we
get a little NBA free agency in March, madness early March, right,
and then we get the NFL Draft in April. Some
nbast up in May and June, but a lot of May, June, July,
and August. We're looking for topics, guys. We got to
figure out how to cover it, because well, this is increasingly.

(13:11):
We got a villain, we got a star, we have growth,
we have media screwing up covering it. It's becoming. It's
a thing.

Speaker 6 (13:18):
Listen, it's not just the media. The players have to understand. Hey,
you know, there's gonna be a lot more cameras and
microphones in your face now, and you can't just wash
away a flagrant, foul, cheap shot. The girl still has
not a apologize, and I don't expect an apology yet,
But how about actually saying what the hell you were
doing when Draymond Green stomps on someone, he's got to
answer questions about it, Colin, that's how it works. Well,

(13:41):
the media, Hey, the result of the Warriors Kings game
was great. But Draymond, what are you doing? You got ejected,
you stomped on someone. Tell us what happened, and players
have to address it. This woman still has not said.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
But why do they have to address it? Our job
is to address actions. Sometimes athletes have a right to
say no comment.

Speaker 6 (14:00):
Yeah, no comment on why I body checked someone when
the ball wasn't in bound. Miss Carter whatever her name is.
Nobody cares about the results of the game. Sorry, they
care about that moment where you cheap shotted. But she
star of the leadue.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
But she did respond, she said, it's it's a foul.
We were all past it.

Speaker 6 (14:16):
Well, why would you do that? Well, I still don't
know why you would And end angel reasons. Why'd you
jump off the bench celebrating that?

Speaker 1 (14:23):
Well, because just like pro basketball for men, there are enforcers,
there are instigators. There's a wink and a nod when
you go out and attack the other star player. You
do realize Draymond doesn't go after bench guys Draymond usually
go after like Dennis Rodman went after Magic.

Speaker 6 (14:42):
Yeah, that's fair, Okay.

Speaker 1 (14:43):
Kennedy Carter had a role. She's the Pat Bev. Pat
Beb's not chasing down the thirteenth guy on the Celtic roster.
He's gonna get in Tatum and Jalen Brown or Drew
Holliday's face. Kennedy Carter is there, Pat Bev and Rodman
and Raymond Green. And although it drives us crazy when

(15:03):
Draymond does that writer Pat Bev and it now driving
us crazy. Let's just understand, though this is part of basketball.
Part of basketball is the annoying player who is often
less skilled, the instigator that wants to get in the
head of the other star player. This is common through

(15:24):
all of men's college basketball, the NBA, European Basketball, and
now the WNBA. But it's nothing, it's nothing I haven't seen.
We just aren't comfortable with it. The Caitlin Clark, the
Kennedy Carter. I think people there's something about there's a
racial components. There's a Midwest girl, the underdog in Iowa.

(15:49):
I mean, there's no question there's some coastal animosity in America.

Speaker 6 (15:52):
Getting political because you know mea But just one final point,
Colin again, like I get the Pat Bev analogy. I
literally injured players in the playoffs before he took out
Russell Westbrook, Like there was like a serious injury knocked
them out in the playoffs. And I'm just saying these
girls can be a physical as they want. That's fine. Well,
guess who's gonna be the biggest loser If Caitlin Clark

(16:13):
gets decked on a cheap shot and is that a
month with a concussion or an ac at whatever. Listen,
that's a big hit to the league.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
And we're not doing.

Speaker 6 (16:20):
Topics on the WNBAF. Caitlin Clark's knocked out a.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
Month that didn't happen. Let's not create stories that don't happen.
Let's cover the ones that do. Okay, And it was
simply a hard foul. It was not a salt. I
have a cheap shot, would you go there? Yeah? Probably,
And I've seen those all through the NBA. Let's not
guys create stuff that's not happening. Again, this is what

(16:44):
I said. We're all projecting onto the screen what we
want to see and want to happen, instead of just
covering what happened. It's just a hard foul. And by
the way, if you watch the video, the crowd gets out, hey,
that's a hard foul, just like they do with the NBA.
Fans are on it, but let's not make it into

(17:05):
it's an assault. What if she would have been out
or broken a leg. She's not a skier. That didn't happen.
They don't break legs very often in pro basketball. By
the way, the bad Boy Pistons never forget this. The
bad Boy Pistons are absolutely one of the reasons that

(17:26):
we love Michael Jordan Moore because we rooted for this
kid from Carolina, this skinny kid who got tackled for
years was an other world talent and actually we all
hated outside of Detroit the Pistons, so it was Detroit
tackling him eventually bad sports. When he wouldn't they wouldn't

(17:49):
shake their hand. That elevated the love for Michael because
he overcame something. So Caitlin Clark is benefiting. She's going
to have to overcome her rookie year, this hard, insane schedule,
Kennedy Carter banging on her. This is gonna empower Caitlin
Clark's brand the sport are feeling for because she overcomes something.

(18:13):
Nothing worthwhile in life is easy. It's all messy, it's
all hard. Jordan's journey, Brady's journey. The reason Tom Brady
is likable yet is, you know, like a model and
worth five hundred million dollars. The reason we like Brady,
the reason he's relatable, is the journey struggled at Michigan,

(18:36):
crapped on by Belichick, didn't have dinner. He was always
wanting Bill to put his arms around him and say congrats.
After the first Super Bowl he gets into the limo.
Bill's in a limo with him. They're going to like
a TV show and Bill acts like nothing happened the
night before. And so Tom was searching for that love
and he never got it from Bill. Twenty years no dinner.
That's what makes Tom likable. This is all benefiting Caitlin Clark.

(19:00):
It makes her journey ugly and bumpy and tough. And
that's why we love Jordan. That's what if Michael Jordan
just came out that good looking, that good one titles
first year, the path was always easy. It would be smug,
it wouldn't it wouldn't feel the same way people write movies.

(19:20):
They all have a villain. If you don't, you insert
a villain. Even when they do, you know, true stories,
people will look back and say, well, they sort of
added a love interest, they added sort of a villain
that they hollywooded it up. They made a movie about
Jesus and they hollywooded it up. Why because you want conflict.

(19:42):
This is the conflict in the movie. It's the first
scene in the movie. There's conflict in it, and it's
gonna make us love Caitlin Clark anymore.

Speaker 2 (19:50):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in noon eastern non a em Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
Yeah. I've said with us for years, once you get
over the parody thing in sports, which doesn't really exist.
We're always trying to engineer parody in sports, and it's
almost like the tax situation for my entire life, tax
the rich. Why does the gap keep widening. It's not
working whatever you're doing. At some point, I gave up

(20:22):
caring about parody. College football doesn't have it. I mean,
Michigan won a national championship, Ohio State and Georgia our
favored to win next year. Okay, it's the same team
college basketball, Kansas, Yukon, Carolina Tennis Serena Federer dominant players
for decades. It's the same countries in the Winter Olympics

(20:42):
and the Summer Olympics dominate. I mean even the NFL,
which is the sport we view as the league of parody.
I think Mahomes and Brady have made the AFC Championship
in the thirteen straight years, or I think that's right.
So it's like baseball doesn't need parody. Yankee and Dodgers
right now have completely stacked lineups. Yankees don't even have

(21:06):
Garrett Cole their starting pitcher. They're ace available, and they
don't their eer leads baseball. If you took the Yankees
and the Dodgers and you went and you combine them
for a batting order today, if you combine them for
a batting order, think about how good this is. You'd
lead off with Mookie Betts. He would play second, Juan

(21:28):
Soto right field, show Hey o Toanni would be the
DH Aaron Judge would be in center, Freddie Freeman Dodgers
would be at first. John Carlos Stanton in left, Will
Smith the catcher, Anthony Volpe the shortstop. Yankees bats eight.
We'd put Max Mounsey, who's not healthy, at nine. He
had thirty six jacks last year. He'd be a cleanup
hitter for most of baseball. He had thirty six jacks.

(21:49):
We'll put him at nine. So Kershaw's not back, Garrett
Cole's not healthy. These are the two best teams, overwhelmingly,
two of the only teams in baseball that can consistently hit.
And I'm here for it. One shit, get over, I
said when I first started at the other place. I
said this. For years. Everybody talks about they love the underdog.

(22:10):
No you don't. I saw TCU play Boise State in
a Fiesta Bowl. Nobody watched. Every time Duke Kansas Carolina
get knocked out of March Madness, the ratings go down.
You're not rooting for the underdog. That's just nonsense. NFL
ratings twenty years have been up, except the Kaepernick year.
That kind of protest. Here, they've been up. Brady and

(22:31):
Mahomes have completely dominated it, throwing Peyton Manning. So I'm
I'm here for dominance. I want all time great teams.
I'm here for it, and these these rosters are stacked,
you know. And what's interesting about baseball is that the
Yankees and the Dodgers just just decided to go all in.

(22:52):
The Yankees can complain from time to time, but they
got a big payroll. The Red Sox used to be
in this class and then they moved off Molky Betts.
They moved off a couple of stars, and they just
feel like they're a mile away from these teams in
terms of overall talent. And I'm okay with that as well.
Speaking of Boston, Kyrie Irving, so you know, so Kyrie
was very briefly in Boston. It was really brief. The

(23:15):
relationship between Kyrie and the Celtics. It's sort of like
the girl you date during the summer on the East
Coast when you're visiting your grandparents. You know, it's like
one of those relationships in your life. You kind of
remember it. He was only there for one playoff run,
and everybody's worked out Kyrie Irving. I understand, Boston booze.
You get a couple of Sam Adams in you know,

(23:38):
your guy in Boston, he's gonna boot Kyrie Irving. But
I feel like he's a different person. He's a different player.
It's a different time. Here's Kyrie in the finals, not
this regular season.

Speaker 7 (23:49):
But when we played in the playoffs and everyone saw
me flip off the Birds and kind of lose my
a little bit, that wasn't a great reflection of who
I am and how I like to compete. I'm built
for these moment to be able to handle circumstances like that,
and I've been able to grow since then. So of
course it's going to be a hectic environment. But I'm
looking forward to it, and I see it as a

(24:11):
healthy relationship to have with the fans. You know, almost
think about Gladiator. Just win the crowd over. You know,
it's good to hear the TD Garden silent when you're
playing well.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
By the way, since he left Boston's on their third coach,
leaving Lebron is worse than what happened in Boston. They
were on the verge of being like dynastic. They were
that good, blowing up Brooklyn. Not playing the vaccine stuff.
That's worse. This was two years one playoff run, and
by the way, when Jason Tatum and the Celtics collapsed

(24:43):
in the finals against the Warriors, Kyrie didn't have anything
to do with that. Nothing. When they got beat as
a number two seed by scrappy playing Miami in the playoffs,
Kyrie had nothing to do with that. And I understand
people boo, But the last ten times Kyrie has faced
the Celtics, he's over ten. He faced him eighteen times.
I'm sure they'll be booing. That's just the way it is.

(25:04):
But I honestly Kyrie feels like a different guy for
the time being. It's a different time. Celtics can't point
to Kyrie and blame them for anything. I mean, they
didn't get any picks when he left. But in the end,
he didn't slow down the train. He didn't slow down
the momentum. So it's weird. Maybe there's just so much
in sports that it's all a blur, But I barely

(25:26):
remember the Boston stuff. He didn't like playing in Boston
and they didn't like him. By the end, all right,
they moved on like the divorce. Boston won it like convincingly.
I don't, I don't, I don't. I don't get all
the animosity like it. It hasn't had anything to do
with the Celtics collapse against the Warriors, or that awful

(25:49):
series when they were upset by playing Miami. Kyrie didn't
have anything to do with that. And the truth of
the matter is be mad at your coach. When you
had an elite coach he fooled around and got fired,
get mad at the coach. All of Boston's problems have
been Boston's problems and Boston's issues. Kyrie's not really any
part of it. Didn't slow anything down because Tatum and

(26:11):
Brown at that time weren't ready to run over the league.
They just weren't read. They were young players, they weren't
even in their prime. They were defining their careers. It's
a whole different ballgame. I do think players, I don't
think crowds, generally in sports rattle players. You know, Boston's
pretty loud. Draymond Green wants to acknowledge like he could

(26:31):
hear insults and it kind of affected him. My guess is,
Kyrie plays incredibly well and this thing goes six or seven,
I'll still take Boston. I don't have any confidence because
I don't know how porzingis is with his health. But
J Mack keeps he's very good at digging. Before you
get to these big games, digging in on these things,
and what he's finding is you can point to both

(26:53):
the Celtics and the Mavericks and look at little flaws
and tendencies which speak well of the opponent you're facing.
I still believe it's an old school Dallas chip on
the shoulder, dominant star team against the new school collaborative.
Everybody shares the ball team. So to me, in a
macro level, what makes it fascinating, it's new basketball collaborative

(27:18):
against an old school team. Kyrie Luca, get me the ball,
get out of the way, high usage, take the game
over late. The two best finishers Dallas, the better roster Boston.
So beyond just individual players, it feels a little bit
like old school new school basketball. That to me is
what makes it fascinating.

Speaker 6 (27:39):
Largely with you, I just worry for Dallas that this
this is OKC on steroids. That's what Boston is, right,
A lot of flexible wing players, but a lot better shooters,
and they got Porzingis in the Chet Holmgren role. And
you know, I know Dallas dominated the boards in that series,
but if Boston's got open three the last time they
met after the deadline, I think it was March first Boston.

(28:00):
He hit twenty one three pointers. If Dallas gives up,
you know, if they're making twenty one threes, they're not
gonna lose any games in the series. Should be a
fun one. I'm kind of rooting Dallas, but I do
not want Tatum to to like, be terrible, because then
you'll you know, I'm not gonna mean all.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
I won't do anything though. He's not gonna be terrible.
Tatum vanishing act for nine minutes in the fourth quarter, well,
he did have one of them.

Speaker 6 (28:21):
He was dominant in overtime.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
He won't he won't vanish. Tatum will have a good series.
Will he have a great series? I don't know. Luca
will have a great series. That's the only player in this.
My guess is Jalen Brown and Luca will have great series.
I don't know if Tatum and Kyrie will. Nobody's gonna
stop Luca. Jalen Brown. Jalen Brown is really good and

(28:47):
you kind of get the same thing out of him
every game. I always feel what Jyleen Brown, I know,
you can just put down twenty four and a half points,
good defense. I get the same thing Tatum. Maybe it's
because my expectations are higher. I think he I think
he moves into bad shot, he gets into bad shot
cycles and again gets a little bit into his head.
Same with Kyrie. But if you told me Luca or
Jalen Brown would be MVPs depending on if their team's one,

(29:11):
I wouldn't be surprised at them.

Speaker 6 (29:12):
You know you don't like this.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
That would be a great story, just like the wins
and Jalen Brown's.

Speaker 6 (29:17):
Got the Eastern Conference Larry Bird Trophy whatever that thing is.
Did Jaylen Brown? He was the MVP of the conference finals.

Speaker 1 (29:22):
What happens if Jalen browns then the NBA Finals MVT
tatus So what happened?

Speaker 6 (29:31):
What happens if Kayler Clark gets hurt? Don't look in
the future. What happens if Jalen Brown one more?

Speaker 1 (29:37):
Heard?

Speaker 2 (29:38):
The Herd streams twenty four hours a day, seven days
a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search her to listen
live or on demand whenever you.

Speaker 8 (29:46):
Like, Hey, gang, listen Jay Glazer, host of Unbreakable, a
mental wealth podcast, and every week we will have on
leader from sports entertainment like Sean McVay, Lindsay Vaughn, Michael
Phelf David Spade got.

Speaker 5 (30:02):
For the Emmy.

Speaker 8 (30:02):
And also those who can help us in between the ears,
anyone from a therapist to someone like Ed Milett for
John Gordon. We've all been through some sort of adversity
to get to the top.

Speaker 3 (30:11):
We've all used different tools.

Speaker 8 (30:13):
Listen to Unbreakable with Jay Glazer and Mental Wealth podcast
on the i Art radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever
you get podcasts.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
AH, welcome in our number two live in Los Angeles.
It's the herd wherever you may be and however you
may be listening guns to making us part of your desk,
the whole. Angel Reese, Caitlin Clark, Kennedy Carter stuff. Yesterday,
the Chicago Trip editorial board called it virtually an assault.

(30:45):
People just going crazy. It's just a hard fowl. We're
all gonna be okay. The women all understand it. Caitlin
Clark's like, yeah, I've been shoved, I shove. Yeah, I
get it. Yeah, Like it's I played the growing up
and an Angel Reese is like, yeah, if I have
to be the villain and the growth of the WNBA,
I'm for it. Then Kennedy Carter is like, it's all love.

(31:08):
We didn't beat her up on the streets, but the
women get it.

Speaker 6 (31:11):
The mediator up in the streets. It's kind of funny, Like, okay,
so the Angel Reaes part about jumping off the bench
when your teammate body checks somebody in like a dirty place.
How is that cool? That there's nothing cool and viney?

Speaker 1 (31:25):
By the way, by the way, that's terrible sportsmanship.

Speaker 6 (31:28):
Listen, I'm just telling you. If that happened in the
NBA and something like when Draymond does his antics, nobody
jumps up from the bed, wait to go Draymond, Like
Steph Curry's rolling his eyes and like, dude, I gotta
deal with this crap again. Go look at the videos,
Like I think we're being a little.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
Too angel Angel Reese is starting to make me laugh.
There you go, get starting. I love the fact if
you take your ten best movies all time, you're you
have a favorite character probably that you like, and then
the second character in the movie that's more the most
memorable is somebody you hated a villain.

Speaker 6 (32:05):
Villain.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
Yeah, okay, And there's a racial component with it. I
don't think there's any question about that. It's America. But
and that started back in college basketball. But the fact
that Angel Reese is like, bring it on, I love it.
She play the Angel Respite and everybody's getting worked up
over this, like she's getting dragged for saying this, but
she's right. She's being viewed as a villain. It's helping

(32:28):
the growth. All movies need conflict in a villain. She's
embracing it. We've seen this multiple times in other sports.
Here's Angel Reese.

Speaker 5 (32:39):
It all started from the National Championship game. I've been
dealing with this for two years now and understanding like, yeah,
negative things have probably been said about me, but honestly,
I'll take that because look where women's basketball is.

Speaker 3 (32:51):
People are talking about women's basketball. You've never would think
of me.

Speaker 5 (32:53):
We talk about women's basketball. People are pulling up the games.
We got celebrities coming to games. Sodau Arena is like
just because of one single and just looking at.

Speaker 3 (33:01):
That, like, I'll take that role.

Speaker 5 (33:02):
I'll take the bag eye roll and I'll can see
you to take that on and be that for my
teammates and if I want to be that, and I
know I'll go down to history.

Speaker 3 (33:09):
I'll look back in twenty years and be like, yeah.

Speaker 5 (33:11):
The reason why we watching women's basketball is not just
because of one person.

Speaker 3 (33:14):
It's because of me too.

Speaker 1 (33:15):
And I want you to realize that by the way
I grew up, say what you want. I grew up
everybody loved byorn bored. But you know who was feisty,
John McEnroe, Jimmy Connors. You go look at the history
of individual sports. The catalyst isn't always the dominant star.

(33:36):
I mean Federer, totally classy kind of interest. Andrea Agassy.
Everybody likes Sampras a little boring. Here comes Andre Agassy,
images reality. He takes everybody off. You go look when
sports pop, there's usually a great star Michael Jordan and

(33:57):
a villain. The Detroit Pistons, you gotta have the villain,
by the way, the Warriors, if it was just Katie
Clay and Steph hitting threes, it's not nearly as fun.
They had to have somebody who's viewed as a as
a villain, a bad guy, a bouncer. That makes them
more fascinating.

Speaker 6 (34:14):
Could Angel Reese be like a Charles Barkley from the nineties.
Remember I'm not a role model, getting any dust ups.

Speaker 4 (34:20):
She wears.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
What she's saying is completely accurate. What Angel Reese is
saying is this all started a couple of years ago
in a basketball game. Me and Caitlyn started and people
bad mouthed me. That's completely correct, and she said, now
I am linked to her, absolutely, and I am part
of Caitlin's story. She is part of Kaitlyn's story. Now,

(34:43):
Caitlin's the one driving the crowds. Her games get seventeen thousand,
everybody else averages about eighty five hundred. That's fine. But
I'm saying is it's we all know that when you
make the movie, Tom Cruise is on the marquee. But
the villain is what makes it work. Mission impossible. There's
a reason it's called impossible. Like, that's the villain part

(35:04):
of it. Tom's the mission, that's the impossible. So my
point you need this is part of the growth of
this sport. It's wonderful and you have a player that's like,
it's very alpha, it's very like, bring it on. I'll
be the villain. I love it. I think it's fantastic. Okay,
I'm all for you.

Speaker 6 (35:24):
Think she's built for that, go for it. The villain's
a tough role. Remember Tiger Woods could have embraced the
villain role after his incident you know in Orlando, blah
blah blah. He he wasn't built for that. Like that's tough, man,
when everyone hates you and now you open your phone
and all it is is a torrent, a diarrhea, stream
of negativity to you. Like, not everybody's built for that.

(35:44):
And I hope she is, because don't be careful what
you ask for, Angel Reese's just play basketball, by the way,
let your stats be.

Speaker 1 (35:50):
Who is she a villain to WNBA players? I bet
she has quite a group of people on her side.
They kind of like Caitlin Clark getting getting brought down
to earth as a rookie.

Speaker 6 (36:04):
That brought that she was just the rookie of the
month with the best.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
Style, but foul here checks there.

Speaker 6 (36:09):
One against Angel recenter career whatever.

Speaker 7 (36:13):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
I don't think she's a villain. I think she's part
of a story and willing to embrace a little bit
of a Dray Monroe.

Speaker 6 (36:20):
I like your contrarian take on this. It's not a
contrarian take it I think it is.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
I don't view it as a contrarian take. So here
we do this whenever we get a I really don't
see it as a contrarian take. I'm America's honesty broker.
I'm just firing right down the middle of the fairway.
You guys are all off in the weeds. Okay, So
whenever we get a champion, I really am not this
is not I'm not trying to be obnoxious. I really

(36:47):
believe this is I said this last hour. It anytime
a business grows fast, it could be a tech company.
It's the w NBA. It's not pretty, it's messy. There's
a reason, there's a star, there's a villain, there's a
protag there's an antagonist. This is all part of an
exploding business, and I'm here for it.

Speaker 7 (37:06):
Right.

Speaker 1 (37:07):
Life's not linear. A lot of turbulence on those flights.
So whenever we have a championship, we always like list
here are the top ten players. In fact, I don't
even want to do this shit. I want to go
to Nick Wright. I don't want to get in the
way of my own segment. Bring in Nick Right. So
everybody thinks I'm being an antagonist, and all I have said,

(37:28):
See how all I have said? Is Phil Knight his
opening manifesto at Nike number nine like and like number
one was we are in the business of change. Number
nine was it won't be pretty. And my take is,
the WNBA is an exploding business and I don't care

(37:48):
if your tech or WNBA. The reason businesses explode a
star emerges, antagonist, protagonist, turbulence. This is all wonderful. There
is a racial component, this is America, of course, but
my takeaway is that foul is just part of a
story that's building into this really fascinating, ascending business.

Speaker 9 (38:13):
Yeah, so this entire thing is so is to me.
More so, there's been more discussion about the discussion than
there has been discussion about the basketball because we almost
have two factions. You have a group of people who
I think don't really see, don't watch how sports media
typically covers these stories that think we are either being

(38:36):
unfair to Caitlin or unfair to Angel or unfair to Kennedy.
And it's like, well, we're kind of unfair at times
to everybody, and now they're in the vortex of sports media.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (38:46):
Then you have a group of people in sports media
who I think feel like, hey, I didn't used to
ever talk about the WNBA. Now that I am talking
about the WNBA. You shouldn't criticize anything I say about
the WA because you should just be happy I'm talking
about the WNBA, which that is incorrect as well. So

(39:07):
I don't think this is that complicated. I think you
have a legitimate rivalry between Angel and Caitlyn, and Angel.

Speaker 10 (39:17):
Is still I think upset about.

Speaker 9 (39:20):
The fact that that National Championship game she won, and yet,
and this is where race does come into factor. Her
overwhelmingly black team that beat the overwhelmingly white team got
painted as villains, and then the next year, even though
they were the defending champions, Caitlyn Clark was the story.

(39:41):
So I understand her bitterness about that. With that said,
Caitlyn Clark was not the story purely because she is
some great white hope. She was the story because she
was the best player in the sport last year, breaking
records and she is a superstar. I think Angel Reese
is a star. I think that Cameron Brink.

Speaker 1 (39:59):
Is a star.

Speaker 9 (40:00):
I think that this rookie class has a lot of stars.
And then you have Caitlyn Clark who is a superstar.
But that's all fine, and the hard foul is fine,
and a little bit of rookie hazing is fine and
a little bit of Do you remember Colin when we
found out the Cavs won the Lebron lottery and they

(40:21):
went around and interviewed Darius Miles and Ricky Davis, and
those guys seemed legitimately hostile towards there soon to be
teammate Lebron. James said, well, I don't think some high
schoolers gonna come in here and dominate. He can ride
our wave, he can jump on our bandwagon. Because it's
like this kid who hasn't done anything already has more
money than me, already, has more fame than me as

(40:42):
a Nike contract. There was real bitterness from his own teammates.
Do I think Caitlin is dealing with some of that?

Speaker 10 (40:49):
Of course?

Speaker 9 (40:50):
Do I think there are other WNBA players that are
like she has twenty million dollars shoe deal before Asia
Wilson that don't like that?

Speaker 10 (40:58):
Of course.

Speaker 9 (40:58):
Do I think race plays a f of course, because
it's America and race plays a factor and everything.

Speaker 10 (41:03):
But I don't think this is.

Speaker 9 (41:05):
That complicated, And I don't think Angel Reese has done
anything wrong. She's been the second best rookie so far
this year by any statistical metric. Yeah, Camera Brink's been
third and Caitlin's been the best, and this is great
for the sport. I just feel like everyone gets so
worked up and he's everywhere.

Speaker 10 (41:23):
It's there.

Speaker 9 (41:24):
I don't know if it's because it's women. I don't
know if it's because the racial angle makes people uncomfortable.

Speaker 10 (41:30):
With my goodness, this is a pretty straightforward sports story.

Speaker 9 (41:33):
The hot shot rookie got hip checked by the teammate
of her prime collegiate rival. Collegiate rival, then stood and
applauded hot shot rookies teammate didn't really have her back,
which kind of seems a little odd. We've seen this
story before. It's not that controversial to me. I think
it's awesome.

Speaker 1 (41:51):
Yeah, so do I you and I Lansa said, so
I would know now Jmac is getting on me because
I'm projecting, I said, but it will be interesting if
the Celtics win and Jalen Brown, who just won the
MVP the Eastern Conference Finals, wins the VP of the

(42:13):
NBA Finals. And I said, the two players in this
finals that I know we're gonna play well, Luca and
Jalen Brown. Kyrie, I'm not sure Tatum a lot of pressure.
I'm not sure. So what do you need to see
from Tatum where it's like definitive he did it? Do
you think there is a this matters a lot to

(42:34):
Tatum and could he do something where you would go
without just being awful, which he won't be. How big
is it for him? What do you project for him?

Speaker 10 (42:43):
So listen?

Speaker 9 (42:44):
I mean, I think it's obviously huge because he can
win his first championship. They've been banging on the door,
you know, since Russell's Celtics. The teams that have made
six conference finals in eight years are as follows Doctor
J Sixers, they finished it off with a championship, Magic
and Kareem's Lakers in that eight year stretch they won four.

(43:07):
Bird Celtics in that eight year stretch they won three,
Michael's Bulls in that eight year stretch they won six,
and then I feel like, oh, I'm sorry, Duncan's Spurs
in that stretch they won three, and then of course
Steps Warriors in that eight year stretch they won four,
and then the Celtics, who in this eight year stretch
they won zero. So I do think and they're huge favorites.

(43:29):
The MAVs winning oddly shockingly would be the third biggest
upset in the last forty years in the NBA Finals.

Speaker 10 (43:36):
I don't view it that way. That's l Vegas use it.

Speaker 9 (43:38):
So he obviously has a ton to gain from a
team continuity and finally breaking through perspective. But I would
be very surprised if Jason Tatum plays in either direction
in a way that makes me feel drastically differently about him.

Speaker 10 (43:58):
People.

Speaker 9 (43:58):
There is a weird thing happening right now where people
are saying, why is Jason Tatum disrespected? And I don't
think he's disrespected. I think there are three players in
the league that are hands down, unequivocally better than him,
Luca Jokic and Yannis Yes.

Speaker 10 (44:19):
Then there is.

Speaker 9 (44:20):
The Embiid factor, which is weird because Embiid's better in
the regular season but has a tattered postseason resume, so
he's a question. And then there's Sga and and that
group of guys that Tatum is in. I don't think
it's disrespectful to put to properly rank him, and maybe
Celtics fans will get mad at me. Even if the

(44:42):
Celtics win this title, I would be shocked if I
come away from this saying Jason Tatum is better than
Luka Jokic or Yannis.

Speaker 10 (44:52):
I just don't think he is.

Speaker 9 (44:54):
And even if his team wins it now, listen, maybe
he's gonna average thirty eight, nine and seven and I'm
gonna feel differently, But I think Luca is far more
likely to be a player who can do that.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
So CJ. Stroud came out and he really we got
into this thing yesterday that if we were redrafting every
quarterback in the league and you had to consider injuries, age, ascension, production, everything,
and I think I took I went Mahomes, he went Alan,
I went Lamar, he went Herbert, and I took c J.

(45:25):
Stroud fifth. And what was interesting yesterday he was asked
on a podcast about Eli Manning or Aaron Rodgers, and
he said, oh, I would take Eli's career. And my
takeaway is, oh, this is great. The kid cares about
the right stuff. It's not about the fame, it's not
about the money, it's not about the podcasting, it's not

(45:47):
it's just about trophies. Because Eli Manning's career is fairly
unspectacular if you take away beating Brady twice. And it
does bring up an interesting idea that if I say
to you, better career, the sense is it's overwhelmingly Aaron.
But I've always looked at football is not baseball. It's

(46:08):
not romantic, it's not basketball, it's not stylistic. It's just trophies.
And I look at it. I look at Eli's career,
and I'm like, yeah, I would take that career too,
healthy sixteen years New York. Two trophies over Brady? Am
I wrong?

Speaker 9 (46:25):
Well, I mean it's you know, it's it's a matter
of taste.

Speaker 10 (46:28):
I suppose it's not what I would choose.

Speaker 9 (46:31):
Now, if you want to say Eli over you would
take Eli's career over Dan Marino. I because two, the
gap between two and zero is so significant.

Speaker 10 (46:44):
All at least listen to that.

Speaker 9 (46:47):
But to me, the difference between two and one is
not enough to bridge the gap of Eli never won
a playoff game other than those two years. He never
sniffed an mv he much less won multiple of them.
He wasn't the best quarterback in his own family. For
all those reasons, I would take Eron's If you were

(47:09):
asking me Nick, like, would you rather win two Super
Bowls and other than those two years, be largely good
but not never great, or win one super Bowl and
in you know, a half dozen years, be either the best,
second or third best quarterback in football. I personally would
rather the latter than the former. Now, fortunately, my guy

(47:32):
gets to have all all the super Bowls, all the MVPs,
all the records. So the right hand, I would just
take Mahomes' career.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
But that's just me. That's a good take. Is that
is a fair take? Maybe I'm too trophy obsessed. Finally,
I'll circle back to I want to stay on football,
so I said this earlier. If you're fair, ceedee. Lamb
is the closest thing that Justin Jefferson in the league.
Their numbers absolutely, and they both played with very similar quarterbacks.

(48:04):
Kirk and Dak's career numbers are virtually the same. And
so sure you have to pay an elite pass rusher,
you cannot for a guy you drafted controversially in the
first round and he has gotten better every year, he
never gets hurt. He's absolutely the only comp for Justin Jefferson. Statistically,
you have to sign him, But could I not argue

(48:26):
what you don't have to do is resigned Dak quarterback
coaching is better. The twenty twenty class was five quarterbacks
and no missus. The twenty eighteen class gave us three stars.
Is that if you take a first round pick Micah
and CD and they're better than you thought you you

(48:47):
can't move off that.

Speaker 9 (48:48):
If you draft and develop a star, you have to
resign that star. But if a fourth okay, yeah, go ahead, okay.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
But if you're a fourth rounder and there's a ceiling
and we've paid you, I think emotionally I could move
off that. Packers moved off Aaron Vikings moved off, Kirk
Seattle moved off Russ. Emotionally, I can't pay all three
of them. It's easier for me to move off a

(49:18):
fourth that I feel elevated him with zeke O line
offensive coaching. I can't move off a first round pick
who's better than I thought he would be.

Speaker 9 (49:28):
Well and younger and you think more upside. Granted, the
huge argument here is positional value quarterback being here and
everything else being here. But I don't think the Cowboys
are giving Dak an extension this offseason because if they
were going to, they would have already done it. The
whole benefit of giving him an extension is it opens

(49:50):
up cap space for you, but that cap all the
free agents are gone. Like whatever cap space you would
have been able to use, you would have wanted it
two months ago rather than right now. I think that
the Cowboys are willing to take their medicine on Dak
Prescott's contract this year and then evaluate in the offseason,
because I don't think America has yet acknowledged that because

(50:14):
the Cowboys can't trade Dak, can't franchise tag Dak, he
is going to be an unrestricted free and clear free agent.
He is going to get something like sixty million dollars
a year and probably three years fully guaranteed. Dak's next contract,

(50:35):
whoever gives it to him is going to be earth shattering,
and I think the Cowboys understandably wonder if putting that
what that will do to their cap situation and the
players they won't be able to maintain, or the players
they won't be able to go get with a quarterback
of Dax caliber, if that puts a ceiling on them.

(50:55):
So I think obviously you re sign Micah Parsons. He's
one of the five best defensive players in the sport.
Obviously you re signed Ceedee Lamb. He's one of the
five best receivers in the sport. They're both in their
early to mid twenties. You drafted them with first round picks.
They've exceeded expectations. I'm fine with the Cowboys rolling the

(51:18):
dice on losing Dak Prescott a year from now rather
than locking themselves.

Speaker 10 (51:23):
Colin.

Speaker 9 (51:24):
We have seen the most expensive quarterback in the league
win a super Bowl because he's Patrick Mahomes. We have
seen the quarterbacks on rookie contracts win super Bowls. We've
seen mid level quarterbacks win super Bowls. The one thing
we've never seen is that good but not great quarterback
on the massive contract.

Speaker 10 (51:44):
Right win a super Bowl. We've never seen it.

Speaker 9 (51:47):
Joe Flacco won a Super Bowl and then got paid
like those guys who are in that tier, they hadn't
gotten paid yet. So I think it's reasonable what the
Cowboys are doing, and I don't expect Dak to get
a contract this offseason.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
Nick Wright as owas great stuff, First things first, after
us can see one more heard.

Speaker 2 (52:08):
The Herd streams twenty four hours a day, seven days
a week within the iHeartRadio app Search Herd to listen
live or on demand whenever you like.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
James Jones is all fired up nine years eight with
the Packers. I'll get to that in a second. So
you have been a WNBA watcher for years. You are,
so you're not somebody like me who just swoops in
to suddenly talk about it. You've been watching it for years.
And you were telling me during the break that the

(52:38):
WNBA comparatively is a more physical brand of basketball than
the NBA. Now we know that a bigger man. Yeah,
but you're saying the WNBA, and you've watched it for
years is more physical than the NBA stylistically.

Speaker 11 (52:56):
Without a doubt. And that's how the women been playing
for years. Like the men, they the game grows faster
with them, right, They're able to adapt a whole lot faster.
The women they play a certain way that's the ground, yes,
not a lot of vertical, right. They really physical. That's
why for years it's always been a big being drafted

(53:16):
in the WNBA first overall and all that. Now you're starting, yes, size, physicality.
Now you're starting to get a lot of these guards
in the NBA. But the WNBA does not change, and
they don't care who you are. If you watch the WNBA,
Asia Wilson has been getting beat up for years. She's
the two time MVP. But the game is violent. When

(53:37):
you watch this game, people want to say, hey man,
you got to call this foul for Kaylen Clark or
change this or change that.

Speaker 1 (53:43):
They don't.

Speaker 11 (53:43):
The WNBA does not care. As a star, you have
to adapt to the game well.

Speaker 1 (53:48):
And what you're saying is the men's game is a
more vertical game, no question. So I can elevate above you.
If we're in the NBA, I can elevate above you
to score, no question. It's more grounded in the yes WNBA.
So physicality is how you score. Yes, like it's a
chippy league. When you watch.

Speaker 11 (54:08):
These guards guard each other, not just Caitlin Clark. When
you watch them guard each other, it is hands on.
In the NBA is hands off, but in the w
NBA it is hands on. It is violent, right. It's
kind of like Michael Jordan's air. Michael Jordan was getting
beat down. You know what he said, I gotta get
in the weight room, and that is what Caitlyn Clark

(54:28):
is going to have to do. The game is not
going to change. It is going to be physical. You
have to adapt to the physicality of the game. Now,
once your team gets better, like a page comes to
your team. If you keep on losing it get the
first overall pick. You get Paige out of Yukon. Now
you have another guard that can help you. You're not
gonna have a lot of attention that will help you.
But the physicality of the basketball game in the w

(54:51):
NBA is.

Speaker 10 (54:52):
Old school football.

Speaker 11 (54:54):
It is old school nineties basketball. It is really physical
and really violent, and you can change it, to be
honest with you. To me, that's what makes the world.

Speaker 1 (55:03):
Well, what's what's happened to the NBA? Not only the
European effect infusion, but when they took away the hand
check you the NBA guards are so twitchy and quick.
Nobody can stand in front of stuff and John Morant Nope,
you can't stay in front of anybody. So that makes
the league less physical. In fact, the NBA, concerned about that,

(55:27):
has tried to tweak it to make it, engineer it
to be more physical because nobody can stop anybody exactly.

Speaker 11 (55:34):
That's why you score on one hundred and thirty points
a game.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
Because now Biggs in the NBA can shoot three. Yep,
biggs have to go outside the lanes wide open. You
can't handcheck a guard. So the NBA has gotten so athletic,
so twitchy, so skilled, they're trying to engineer more physicality.
You're saying the WNBA is just a physical.

Speaker 11 (55:52):
It's been physical since it started watching. That is the
women's game, That is the college women's game. It is
just a really physical game. You have to adapt to
the physicality of the game. And I believe Caitlyn Clark
will now the after the whistle stuff. We all know.
I mean, we can all agree on that you cannot
do that. Yeah, that's a flavorant. You cannot do that
in any league. You can't do that in football, basketball,

(56:14):
you can't do that in any league. So that's out.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
But here's what you're saying, basically, is that people and
I'm guilty of this, have said Caitlyn is Steph. But
what she really is, a more grounded version is Luca.
And what Luca's been able to do is use his
body because he's not jumping over people. So she's actually
got a little more Luca, got a little more.

Speaker 11 (56:38):
Steph playing at his pace. You know, Steph is a
little bit quicker, better ball handler and all that than
Luca and Caitlyn. You know, but Caitlyn plays at her
own pace. Now, you have to adapt to the physicality
of the game. Can I shoot this basketball if somebody
is pushing on me, if somebody leaning on me? Can
I create separation? You know what I'm saying. With my
strength and all that. Instead of just running off screens

(57:00):
and doing that. We see Steph a lot as he's
grown in his game. He doesn't necessarily have to come
off the screen. Steff can have the ball at the
top of the key and use his body to get
his shot up because he has gotten a whole lot stronger.
Kaitlyn Clark needs to get a whole lot stronger, which
she will because even through these first ten games that
she has played, you see the difference. You see her
adapting to the physicality of the game.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
But when I hear.

Speaker 11 (57:22):
People say, man, you got to do this and change
these rules and do all that, No, you don't. Right,
every player in the WNBA that has come before Kaitlyn
Clark has adapted to the physicality of the game. Is
she getting more attention than a lot of these girls
that came in. Absolutely, we will be crazy not to
say so. You got a rookie getting picked up from
from full court. Got once she crosses half court her defender.

(57:45):
Don't even look at nobody else. I'm not help defencing
on nobody. Caitlyn Clark will not get a shot off.
That's how they are playing. Are totally different than they
played any other rule. She'll adapt, but she will adapt,
but the physicality of the game cannot change. You can't
start being in the rules.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
CJ Stroud, like me, is a man who enjoys a
good cold beer in a trophy, and he says, I'll
take Eli's career two trophies, beat Tom over Aaron's. What
was your initial reaction to that.

Speaker 11 (58:15):
I respect CJ. I do, and CJ is a heck
of a player in our league. He is going to
be a special player. But with all due respect to
Eli Manning, because I believe Eli Manning was a good
quarterback in our league. You cannot mention Aaron Rodgers' name
in the same sentence you mentioned Eli Manning's name. They

(58:35):
are not even close as players. You are talking about
a five time All Pro to zero for Eli. You
are talking about a Super Bowl champion and Aaron Rodgers
and a four time MVP. Look at this graphic. Now,
I know CJ is talking and he's on the podcast,
but I'm sure if CJ's seeing this graphic he would

(58:56):
change his answer because this is absolutely crazy. We have
a guy that is going to walk into the Hall
of Fame and arguably a guy that has two Super
Bowl rings that people go like this should he get in?

Speaker 1 (59:09):
When we talk.

Speaker 11 (59:10):
About a career, you're talking about a Super Bowl champion,
a four time MVP, and we can recognize and see
the numbers that is on this screen. So basically, what CJ.
Stroud is telling me is give me Trent Dilford over
Dan Marino because he got one more super Bowl ring.

Speaker 9 (59:28):
And.

Speaker 11 (59:30):
Give me Joe Flacco over a Dan Marino because he
has a Super Bowl We're talking crazy, like if we're
truly watching the NFL game, and I know CJ is
a student of the NFL game, that is why he
is so good. With all due respect to my guy,
Eli Manning, we cannot even say the name Aaron Rodgers say.

Speaker 1 (59:51):
And the truth is is that super Bowls are situational.
Eli had four elite defensive line.

Speaker 11 (01:00:01):
Because Aaron Rodgers had a top ten defense. How many
times college once and how many super bowls he.

Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
Got won one? Yeah, so Eli was to a large degree.
And I say this as somebody who loves Elie. That
defensive front was really.

Speaker 11 (01:00:16):
They hail. They held that team to seventeen points.

Speaker 1 (01:00:19):
The Randy Moss team dropping fifty on NFL teams.

Speaker 11 (01:00:24):
I love you, lie, this is crazy. Yeah, I want
to know your take though.

Speaker 10 (01:00:29):
What.

Speaker 3 (01:00:30):
It's.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
I always do this with a smile on my face
because I really love you, lie. He made arguably the
two greatest throws in Super Bowl history.

Speaker 11 (01:00:38):
I can agree on that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
I mean the Mario Manningham throw. If you go back,
literally it's this is what's open a.

Speaker 11 (01:00:44):
Dime of a fade ball incident.

Speaker 10 (01:00:46):
It's insane.

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
It's literally a football side ball in it, and David
Tyree sticks to his helmet. But I do believe that
we get too immersed in championships and they're situational. I mean, JRK.
Novisky wins a championship. I'm not even sure that's his
best team. Miami was not fully formed. Lebron's a villain.

(01:01:07):
He gets tight in Game three. JJ Beurrea is playing
over his skis, so championships are situational.

Speaker 11 (01:01:15):
No doubt. And it's funny because a lot of people
don't know that. When I got released by the Raiders,
I signed with the Giants and I played with Eli Manny,
and obviously I played eight years with Aaron Rodgers.

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
But well, I thought you signed with the Raiders.

Speaker 11 (01:01:33):
I signed with the Raiders twenty fourteen. After that season,
I got released and I signed with the Giants and
I went and I asked for my release because Jordie
Nelson has towards ACL and I asked to go, you know,
can you grant me my release? I wasn't gonna be
a big time part of the Giants offense. Can you
you send me back practice every day? And as I'm

(01:01:53):
at practice, I won't say the young players' names are
the players that were their names, But as I'm at practice,
I'm like, you gotta let that go. He gotta throw that,
he gotta put that here. And they like, he ain't twelve,
like you have you trying to have him do twelve things.
He's not twelve. But that's from everybody else's eyes. My

(01:02:14):
own two eyes. Being in that huddle with Eli Manning,
it's not close. That's all I'm gonna say, it's not close.

Speaker 1 (01:02:22):
You can say more, it is not.

Speaker 11 (01:02:23):
It is not close. Aaron Rodgers and Eli Manning, with
all due respect, should not even be in the same
conversation with each other as of careers.

Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
I think that's fair.

Speaker 11 (01:02:34):
Gosh, I love you, CJ.

Speaker 3 (01:02:36):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:02:37):
That's well. These young guys they don't know what you
put a mic in front of them. They're just not
ready for the big answer, mate.

Speaker 11 (01:02:44):
I mean, and I understand. I mean, you hear two
super Bowl rings.

Speaker 1 (01:02:47):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 6 (01:02:49):
You hear it.

Speaker 11 (01:02:49):
It sounds good. I mean, that is that is why
we play the game as a team. You know what
I'm saying, to win super Bowls. But you're talking about
four MVPs, a super Bowls, not like he hasn't won
any A super Bowl, champion, five All pros. I mean,
I don't even I mean, Eli Manning has zero All pros.
I don't even know if he has I mean, I

(01:03:12):
know he don't got an MVP, but has he even
been in the MVP voting?

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
Did he get a top final?

Speaker 11 (01:03:19):
Like the only reason why when I when I first
heard this, like Aaron Rodgers, some people as myself argue
him to be one of the greatest ever with one
super Bowl ring with what we never we never will
talk about Eli like that. Yeah, you know, and I
don't want to dog my dog. Eli is, like I said,
I love in.

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
The Philip Rivers category, Philip was a little better regular season,
Eli better playoffs.

Speaker 11 (01:03:43):
That's fair win wise, because that's what I'm starting to
recognize now, even I even being on speaking talking with
my dog Shady and talking with Jeorg Joy, I'm starting
to I'm starting to see that as a quarterback stat
it is all about super Bowls. You kind of forget
the town talent, you know, just like some people are like,
if Patty wins another one, I have him in front

(01:04:06):
of Brady and a lot of people are like, what
are you talking about? Like Brady has seven of them
being a ten, but you watch him? Are you watching
the talent that's in this dude? And you know so,
I think when we talk about the quarterback spot, we
lose the talent they got and go straight to the rings.
We talk any other position. It's how great of a
talent he was right, and miss Smith A lot of

(01:04:28):
people don't have labeled as the goat at running back.
You have Barry you know, or whoever. You know what
I mean, because of the talent that he has, you know,
so quarterbacks all about winning.

Speaker 1 (01:04:41):
But this the Aaron thinks I'm anti Aaron. But you
know how often I let people come on this show
and say nice things about him, and I'm not anti.
Sometimes he's a little prickly for my taste, but you
know what, I'm a little prickly. Yeah, behind the scenes,
I'm no Dad at the beach.

Speaker 11 (01:04:55):
Yeah, Aaron a dude man team around.

Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
But this right here, that's just too much. That's a
bridge too far.

Speaker 11 (01:05:04):
That's just like they text me last night and they said, James,
can you come on the show with Colin? I said absolutely.
They sent me to topics this morning. I said, no,
I'm not coming. No, I'm not answering his question.

Speaker 1 (01:05:19):
No, but this is hell Man good seeiorbody.

Speaker 2 (01:05:24):
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