Nerd Sesh - NBA Finals Mailbag - The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
No, Oh my god, how could he do that?

Speaker 1 (00:16):
Watch what Charles Darwin? The nerves is where it's at.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Welcome everybody back into Nerd Session as always, I'm Carson
Brever and alongside of me is Logan Candid and we
are officially here on the eve of the NBA Finals,
so we are extremely excited for that to get started.
If you haven't seen some of the content that we've
made leading up to it, we did our full in
depth series Predictions on Sunday. We did a show with

(00:43):
Joel Moran talking about a lot of the big storylines
for this series on Monday, and today we are going
to be answering your guys questions doing a mailbag episode,
mostly talking Finals, but also covering some other topics that
you asked us about. But we're gonna start with finals.
Logan and I really like this question from Jack who
asks where does Luca rank all time as an offensive player?

(01:05):
Not talking about accomplishments, but pure skill on offense. Love
the show, Thanks Jack, Yeah, thank you Jack. The so
seriously thanks Jack, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
Thank you Jack.

Speaker 3 (01:15):
The skill part is interesting because when you're talking about
raw impact, there's some guys that I would have over
Luca potentially like maybe like a shack just in terms
of his gravity and the paint. But it's interesting that
you emphasize skill, Like there's only a handful of guys
that I could go with. I only wrote down four
names that I would concretely take above Luca, like concrete,

(01:38):
and that was Jokic, Lebron, Steph.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
And MJ and then my honorable mentions.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
These were guys that I would consider, but I think
I honestly prefer Luca. And I wrote down Magic, I
wrote down BYRD, and I wrote down KD Wow. And
that's where I emphasized like the skill part, because Luca
is one of the most skilled offensive players like ever
in terms of his tough shot making, his ball handling ability,
the change of pace, like the playmaking. He's one of
the greatest passers ever. I don't know, man, you gotta

(02:06):
be literally one of the greatest offensive players ever to clear.
And that's the most interesting dynamic to me here, Like
where did you weigh in on like just raw offensive
impact versus the skill dynamic?

Speaker 2 (02:19):
Skill logan is one of the most interesting words in
the basketball sphere. It's very amorphis so I interpreted this
question more as ability, saying we're not talking accomplishments, we're
talking about your peak ability, which I do think changes
the standard from where you had it, because then you
can't have some bigs who are not conventionally super skilled

(02:41):
like a Shack, but who's overwhelming athletic attributes just make
him one of the most valuable offensive players ever. So
holding Luca to that standard, I think he probably sneaks
into my top ten offensive peaks in history. So my
Tier one Yokish, Lebron, MJ Steph are the guys you
all mentioned. I would also have Magic and Larry concretely
above him. If in Magic's case, these are two unbelievable

(03:05):
on ball engines. I do think that Magic just sort
of reached a different level of efficiency in true playmaking
brilliance like he is really one of won in NBA
history in that regard. So it's the overwhelming efficiency, the transition,
how dominant he was there, and the ability to just
drive historically great team offense is year after year after year,
we're talking about the number one offense. What is it

(03:27):
like eight out of ten years or something in LA
and that includes post Kareem like he to me is
absolutely one of the greatest offensive ends that we've ever seen.
In that number one tier, I would give Larry the
edge because of the stylistic versatility. I think that Larry
is one of the great plug and play in any offense,
and he is going to give you historic value guys

(03:47):
that we have ever seen. Absolutely dominant on ball creator
and score, one of the great shot makers we've ever seen,
but truly one of the greatest connective, instinctual passers of
all time. Just could do everything offensively at such a
high level. I do think that ability to scale, regardless
of teammates is extremely valuable. Then in the next tier,
I have Kareem Shaq, Oscar and Luca And some people

(04:10):
may be like, why is Oscar Robertson up that high?
Oscar Robertson is unequivocally one of the ten greatest offensive
players that we've ever seen. In my opinion, when you
talk about the dudes who just, no matter what, spearheaded
number one number two offenses over a decade, there's three guys.
It's Magic Johnson, It's Steve Nash, and it's Oscar Robertson.
He came into the league led five straight number one
offenses in his supporting cast just weren't that good. We're

(04:32):
talking about a guy who has like all time scoring
and playmaking volume, the sort of raw production that Luca
is now approximating, but like there's very very few guys
in that range. But he also is doing it with
this unfathomable efficiency. Where as a guard in a pre
three point line world, he's giving you like plus eight
percent relative true shooting every year. He's just incredible to me.

(04:55):
So I would still give him that nod for now,
and then the next group of guys who I would
have Luca just above would be Nash, would be Katie,
would be Wilt, would be Kobe, would be Jerry West.
So I do think it's interesting to do some specific
comparisons here. Steve Nash is a really tricky one because
I think he's the best pure pick and role player ever.

(05:17):
I think he is one of the best transition facilitators
that we've ever seen. He led eight number one offenses
in nine years logan across both Dallas and Phoenix, led
the league in true shooting percentage twice as a guard,
and just year in year out is better than ninetieth
percentile efficiency and pick and roll ISO spot up one
of the all time great peer shooters, all time floater touch.

(05:40):
I give the edge to Luca, though, because I do
think there's just a different scoring ceiling there. Like Nash
has a lot in common with Magic and with Oscar
in terms of being these all time great point guards,
all time great offensive engines, elevating everybody around them, But
I think Oscar is a different level as a scorer,
and I think Magic, because of his physical advantages, was

(06:00):
more inclined to a sort of takeover scoring role. So
that's where I think Luca's physical imposition and his ability
to do more with less, honestly because of that, because
of how much he can eat up that volume scoring,
gives him the edge. But I don't want to see
any Steve Nash disrespect Katie, particularly when we're looking in
like that twenty fourteen range. Is an incredible, incredible offensive player,

(06:23):
one of probably the three greatest pure scores that we've
ever seen, the combination of athleticism and shot making was
all time. But I do think that that's where Luca's
edge is a playmaker just pretty clearly offsets Katie's edge
as a score because that's a pretty slight one Luca's
edge is a playmaker is pretty sizable, even though you
could argue that Katie does have more of that plug
and play value. I just think Luca's peak is higher

(06:45):
when you consider the all time scoring and all time
playmaking Wilt. I imagine some people will be pretty surprised
by just because of the sheer volume numbers that he
puts up early in his career. I do think that
the value of some of that is overrated. As we
have talked about, if you look at Wilt's most monstrous
scoring seasons, he's not actually driving good team offense. And

(07:08):
in fact, the Warriors they weren't a very good offense
with Wilt, and when he left they actually got slightly better.
And the difference when he joined versus the year prior
was negligible, Like he was just playing such a scoring
dominant style that he was really neglecting the value of
playmaking and limiting sort of the ceiling of a team offense.

(07:30):
There's so many ways to weaponize your value as a
scorer without just putting up a shot every single time.
And then you do have like sixty seven with the Sixers,
and really that whole like sixty five to sixty eight
range where he does totally figure things out offensively and
he's blending super efficient scoring with playmaking. But I just
think Luca's ability to blend like that overwhelming volume as

(07:51):
a scorer with that all time playmaking value, to me,
I would give him a slight edge there as well.
Are there any of those names that stand out to
you that you do I disagree with that you strongly
agree with.

Speaker 3 (08:05):
I don't disagree with any of the guys I would
have Luca probably in his I'm wondering if he should
be in the first tier.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
And that's what I was gonna ask.

Speaker 3 (08:12):
You, like, do you think that he can climb above
any of the guys that you think are in the
tier above him? Because I think there's a different level
of scoring in position that he could reach with Magic.
And Magic's an interesting dynamic because, like you said, like
he's so unselfish, Like it's just a really different, you know,
play play style, Like they just play different brands of basketball.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
Luca's gonna hunt his shot first and then kick it.

Speaker 3 (08:37):
Magic is so much more, you know, just unselfish, gonna
make the right play every time. And that's where I wonder, like,
do you think that Luca's body of work, and I
know this is a skill based question, so it's hard.
Can he surpass any of those guys in value?

Speaker 1 (08:50):
To you?

Speaker 2 (08:52):
I think he could, And I do want to give
props to Luca because we do talk about him as
this heliocentric, exceptionally ball dominant star. But I do think
that he's continued to improve offensively year after year after year.
If that's the development of his dominant post game that
he didn't really have coming into the league, or even
in that twenty twenty season when he led the Maps

(09:12):
to be the number one offense, he's just gotten better
and better there. He had a career best three point
shooting season this year. Also his willingness to play more
away from the ball alongside Kyrie, and specifically his improvement
as a catch and shooter. He's taking twice as many
catch and shoot threes as he was last year, so
he's become less and less of a ball stopper. He
has continued to become a more complete offensive player, and

(09:34):
you're right that all time blend of scoring and playmaking
is transcendent. So I don't think it's outrageous to have
him above those guys. I do just think that not
all your offensive impact shows up on the stat sheet,
and there's a reason that we can look at Magic
and say, Okay, he's only averaging nineteen twenty points per game,
but he absolutely belongs in this conversation. He manufactured more

(09:57):
phenomenal looks for his teammates than anybody we've ever seen
in the history of this game. And again he scored
with such overwhelming efficiency. The guy just pretty much optimized offense.
So Luca's gonna put up bigger raw numbers than Magic
for his entire career. But that to me doesn't mean
that there's a gap, and uh I would still lean
Magic there. But I think there's an opportunity for him

(10:18):
to pass Bird as well, just because, like, although I
do very much value the ability to dominate away from
the ball, to have that stylistic versatility, there is a
level of just overwhelming dominance in your particular on ball
roll that you can reach. If you're Luca, that could
clearly transcend that. I think right now they're very close.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
I know we've got a lot of other questions to
get through, so I don't want to uh.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
No, no, this one's interesting question to long, but.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
I have one I got one more follow up for
you on that.

Speaker 3 (10:48):
So at their absolute apex, uh, I think the first
guy that a lot of people would point to after
the guys that we've already listed, is probably James Harden.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
Why would Harden.

Speaker 3 (11:00):
Not be in your top two tiers? Why is he
not up here with the rest of these guys.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
Excellent question, Logan, He's not that far off. But I
do think that Luca is pretty absolutely clear of hardened,
and the biggest reason is something that we've talked about.
It's shot making versatility. Now, I will say, when we're
comparing Luca to some of these other all time greats,
his reliance on pull up jumpers and the fact that
although he's very very good at those shots, he's not

(11:25):
like all time efficient can lead to a little bit
more downside. That's another thing with Larry and Magic, their
ability to never force the issue to such consistently create
really high percentage shots for themselves, easy shots for themselves
and their teammates. We've seen the floor when Luca's off
as a jumpshooter, and it's a little bit lower than

(11:45):
the floor for those guys, So that matters in that comparison,
but in Larry's case, to just make perfect decisions within
the flow of the game, manufacturing these great shots for
himself and his teammates in all these different ways, out
of pick and roll, spotting up, out of the post,
out in transition, with really exceptional balance across play types,
and for Magic, always creating great shots around the rim

(12:08):
and in the paint if it's out of the post,
attacking a mismatch, if it's out of pick and roll
as a score or playmaker, if it's in transition, just
leading to this overwhelming offensive efficiency, and by the way,
transition specifically is a meaningful edge for Magic versus Luca.
In that conversation, there's just a floor there, not necessarily

(12:29):
in terms of production, but in terms of impact, in
terms of shot quality with those guys that is a
bit higher than Luca's when his jumper is off, and
Luca's offensive on off numbers haven't quite stacked up to
some of the all time greats. And when we're really
nitpicking here, efficiency and versatility at those elite, elite all

(12:49):
time levels is a part of that. But compared to
James Harden, then Luca is on a different level of
versatility as a shot maker. He's shooting well over fifty
percent from me range in these playoffs on high volume, right,
the ability to pick up part a defense from that
many different spots on the floor. It's all relative because
some of the all time greats like Larry would have
even more versatility than Luca within the context of his era.

(13:12):
But Luca absolutely surpasses hard and there. It's also his
overwhelming physical advantages, the fact that he's got a couple
inches on Harden, that he's got some weight on Harden,
and that he just plays with more physicality, so he
plays more of that legitimate bullyball. He's less reliant on
getting to the line. He is a better, more versatile
pure shot maker, and I would argue is also a
better pure passer. So those are like the two heliocentric

(13:36):
ball dominant I'm gonna dictate everything offensive engines who we've
seen in these last decades, and they're often compared to
one another. I do think that Luca is the better
version of that archetype.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
Though, Yeah, I think so too, and it is it's
the difference in shot diet, and I think the key dynamic.
I'm glad you said that about Luca. It is the floor.

Speaker 3 (13:57):
I didn't really think about that when I was thinking
about Burden Magic. The It's the Jason Tatum thing, right,
like where you're settling for the jumper and you're not
getting downhill and imposing yourself. And I think that's a
good distinction.

Speaker 1 (14:10):
But I don't know, man.

Speaker 3 (14:12):
I think I'm ready with what the body of work
I've seen from Luca, and I think I would have
him in Tier one though that's the only thing I
really disagree with.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
Man. I think I would already put Luca in the
best Engines of All Time kindy category.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
He may be the last guy into that tier, but
I think I'm ready to put him there, Man.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
I think his impact is that great already.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
Top ten is pretty damn good, and the margins are
slim between a lot of these guys. And when we're
talking about Luca's floor, I want to be clear, it's
still pretty damn high because his playmaking value is so constant,
because his physical advantages are so significant, and when he
does commit to getting into the paint, then his floor
is really really high. But we are talking about splitting

(14:56):
some very thin hairs here. These are just the all
time greats, and I think ultimately it's a testament to
Luca that he is in this conversation. But there is
that dual edged sword to Okay, you're dictating every possession.
We can very much live and die with you, in
particularly your tough shot making in a way that you
wouldn't quite with Larry, that you wouldn't quite with Magic.
But of course the ceiling with Luca is ridiculously high.

(15:18):
And if he went out there and averaged thirty five
ten and ten next series efficiently, like I wouldn't even
be that surprised. But that is another thing that some
of the all time greats have over Luca, the efficiency
when you're talking about a Jokic, a Magic, an Oscar,
some of these bigs who we throw into these same conversations,
and the bigs are always just interesting to compare because
so many of today's great players, although we have obviously

(15:40):
awesome bigs, are guys who are dual elite scorers and playmakers,
which really only Jokic has been throughout the scope of
NBA history at the center position, except for you could
argue Wilt for a couple of years. But I think
Kareem and Shack really are good enough playmakers, and they
were such overwhelming interior scorers and so efficient there that
they just completely destroyed defenses. But if you wanted to

(16:02):
take Pete Luca over either of them, I wouldn't be pissed.
I wouldn't think that that's outrageous. All right, we have
another question about the MAVs and about all time rankings Logan.
These are two of my favorite questions today, This one
from Dunks and Hoops. Where would you rank Kyrie all time?
And how would a Finals win this year impact his legacy?

Speaker 3 (16:22):
I think Kyrie is already top seventy five overall. I
thought it was a real travesty that when the NBA
came out with her list that one.

Speaker 1 (16:31):
Kyrie was excluded, and then to the Dwight Howard.

Speaker 3 (16:34):
Wasn't on that list. I thought both of those guys
should have been locks. The first guy that I look
at was like Lenny Wilkins. I couldn't believe, like shout
out him for longevity purposes, but like in terms of
just basketball skill, I thought it was kind of wild
that Kyrie wasn't there.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
Zero time all NBA Lenny Wilkins og knows right back
to that when we had Og Chiltown Hoops on the pod,
and Logan asked the question about who has the most
All Star appearances without making all NBA, and Og literally
immediately got it and then basically just called Lenny Wilkins
a fraud for like forty five seconds. That really fired
me up.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
Yeah, I mean, I I think Kyrie's already there. I
don't really know how much a Finals victory has a
bearing on my view as Kyrie, like as an all
time player though, because he ultimately is playing the number
two role and like I think that's valuable, Like I
think Kyrie will thrust himself into you know, some of

(17:29):
the greatest number twos of all time, Like you think
of Scottie Pippen playing the Robin roll, Like I think
that's ultimately Kyrie's role.

Speaker 3 (17:37):
And maybe he's a top ten point guard, he'd be
on the fringe. I'd have to make a full list
to really figure out if Kyrie's there, But those are
the two thresholds. I think he's definitively top seventy five.
He'd be seventy five to fifty for me all time,
And then I'd have to debate on whether he's a
top ten point guard, he'd be very close and teetering

(17:58):
on that edge.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
But I don't only get has a huge effect on
his outcome.

Speaker 3 (18:02):
But I think his willingness to play a role has
really changed my mind about Kyrie. How great he's been
in different situations. But it's really his commitment to winning
in the later stage of his career that has made
me change my mind on Kyrie and his impact on
the game. His commitment to defense this year, his commitment
to doing little things offensively and playing off ball like

(18:25):
those are the things that make a real difference to me.
But he's one of the most skilled guys all time.
Those are the thresholds though fringe to fringe the top
ten point guard and then somewhere in that top seventy
five to top fifty range. But I think a Finals
win does up him marginally and helps him in both
of those regards. But it's not like the be all
end all man. I think Kyrie is a really special

(18:47):
player all time and probably underappreciated. Like I said, man,
I thought it was criminal that a guy like Kyrie
wasn't top seventy five already when they came out with
that list earlier.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
I think k Kyrie with a Finals win is somewhere
in the top sixty all time. I don't think he
would be a top ten point guard. I think that's
a really really strong position throughout the scope of NBA history.
Obviously center is the most stacked, but then there's a
real argument that point guard is the next. I just
think you get to ten names quicker than you might
think with Magic with Steph, with Oscar, with Nash, with

(19:21):
Jerry West, with Isaiah, with CP three, with Stockton, with
Jason Kidd, I would have Gary Payton above him. Still,
I would have Koozi above him. So I think that
you're probably getting somewhere between twelve, maybe up to fifteen
names before Kyrie. But I do think that he would

(19:43):
be in that top sixty range with a Finals win.
That would be obviously two championships for him. He's an
eight time All Star, three time All NBA. Is the
category where he's lacking in terms of accolades, although I
don't really value accolades too much in these conversations, but
just two time third team, one time second team. Although
I am not a big guy when it comes to
like just citing all NBA with evaluating these players, I

(20:06):
do think that reflects the reality that Kyrie has very
rarely been seen as a top tennis short of player
in the league. And I do think that that's important here.
Like when we're talking about all the point guards who
I named, those are guys who as your number one
could propel you to a different level of success in
my opinion than Kyrie. There's just too many guys, and

(20:28):
this is across positions who could bear that number one
load at a higher level than Kyrie for him to
be knocking on like top forty or whatever. Be that
because of overwhelming two way impact, be that because of
next level playmaking, be that because of guys just having
more physical and athletic advantages, Like the reality is Kyrie

(20:48):
hasn't been as equipped to have that sort of multifaceted
overwhelming dominance. I am single handedly going to propel us
to being an elite offense with scoring and playmaking as
a number one, or I am going to have that real,
real sizable impact defensively at a very high level, Like
that's just not what he's ever been built as an
elite number one. But there aren't many players ever who

(21:11):
have been better equipped to be your number two offensively.
He is an all time versatile shot maker. He is
an all time ball handler. He's an extremely efficient isolation
and pick and roll and spot up player. He's great
on and off ball. He has such good instincts. He
is such a phenomenal closer that he really fits alongside anybody.
We've seen him fit with two of the most ball

(21:33):
dominant players in terms of like just great offensive engines
in recent years, with Lebron and with Luca. He fits
so well as a second shot maker alongside them. We've
also seen him fit alongside KD really well offensively, Like
there is a tremendous versatility there. And I don't want
to discredit the fact that Kyrie has been a good
number one, a successful number one. We saw it in

(21:54):
Boston for a year or two. But I do think
there are peers within this generation who have reached higher
heights there as a number one, and who do have
more of just that overwhelming imposition that lends itself to
floor raising as opposed to ceiling raising in a role
not to diminish the role of being a number two,
but it's just different than being a number one like Kyrie,

(22:15):
and in this run, as you say, He's embraced all
the winning stuff, playmaking, defense, takeover, scoring at a very
high level, some of the best basketball we've seen in
his career. I do think some of those comparisons within
this generation logan related to what I was just saying
about number one floor raising versus number two ceiling raising
are very interesting. For example, who would you have higher

(22:35):
all time, Kyrie or Russ.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
I'm not taking Russ.

Speaker 3 (22:40):
I understand his apex, and I think people will take
issue with that. Russ gives you a really high floor,
but I think he puts a cap on your ceiling
with how he plays basketball. I think Kyrie can Maybe
he doesn't have the highest floor, but can raise your ceiling.

Speaker 1 (22:57):
Just Russ is struggling with shooting, his decision making, playing
out of control. I just I appreciate Russ.

Speaker 3 (23:06):
And what he did to collapse defenses and how great
he was is like the engine. I just don't know
if you're getting out of the first round of the
second round with Russ as your number one guy, and
that matters to me.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
We feel similarly on this, I would take Kyrie. There's
no question that Russ is the better floor raiser. Kyrie
could not have done what Russ did in twenty seventeen.
There's just a different level of downhill force, their physicality.
But to win a title, neither of these guys could
be your number one, And Kyrie is a much much
better number two in my opinion. And as you say,

(23:39):
like there's just too many playoff issues that pop up
with Russ decision making, his limitations as a skilled shot maker.
His relative true shooting percentage in the playoffs is minus
five percent logan versus league average, Like that is really
really awful, and that has been a trend over the years.
So I would take Kyrie there. What about Kyrie versus Dame?

Speaker 3 (24:00):
Wow, mm hmm, that's a really interesting one. I think
I would take Dame for one reason. This one's really close.

Speaker 1 (24:10):
The reason I.

Speaker 3 (24:11):
Would take Dame is because I think Dame's exceptional, like
perimeter shooting, like how far he can stretch a defense
out from behind the arc, how great he was like
even up to last year, Like I trusted Dame as
my offensive number one even up to last year. I
think the falloff really has been this year with you know,
his situation changing, with the fact that you know, he's

(24:34):
got a bunch of life stuff going on and just
general aging, man, you're not gonna be able to keep
that up for your entire career. I always liked Dame
as a number one, so that one's really really close,
but I would take Dame.

Speaker 2 (24:46):
It's very close. Dame clearly has peaked higher to me,
especially as a number one. When you're looking at like
the twenty twenty and twenty one and twenty twenty three seasons.
He's averaging thirty and seven and a half on like
sixty four percent through shooting for three seasons, and he's
propelling elite team offense without a really strong supporting cast.

(25:08):
I do think his ability to stretch a defense that
is almost unparalleled, the fact that he is a more
imposing downhill athlete, the fact that he has been able
to have a more pronounced playmaking impact because of how
he stresses a defense. All of those things point to
him being the better number one, to having the higher
peak in a vacuum. I do think, though, if Kyrie
really balls out in these finals, and that means this

(25:31):
is another exceptional run from him as a number two
that leads to a title if they win at all.
Even though I do think that Dame has peaked higher,
and I would have viewed as the better player in
a vacuum for most of the last half decade, especially,
Kyrie would have just accomplished more of true historical significance.
And I'm not a big guy on overvaluing rings, and

(25:53):
I do think we should mostly just judge these guys
based on their abilities in a vacuum. But I don't
think that the gap is big enough to set what
Kyrie has proven playing as one of the best Robbins
in basketball history. And I think he would probably get
the slight edge at that point. But it's very, very close.

Speaker 3 (26:12):
So what are we doing a We're going with guy
you'd rather have, or like I mean, because that's an
interesting dynamic, like Kyrie's gonna have the two rings, name's gonna.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
Have I mean, what to show for it?

Speaker 2 (26:21):
Yeah, And that's obviously not the only way that we
want to view this. But again, it's like you are
constantly striking a balance with all time rankings of Okay,
how do I think of this guy in a vacuum
versus what were the ultimate results of his career? I
think you have to meet somewhere in the middle between
the two. You have your opinion of this guy and

(26:43):
of his value. You also can't ignore the ultimate results,
and uh, it's very nuanced, It's very close. I think
that these two are neck and neck, and honestly, I
think that the jury is still out, Like I think
either one of these guys could take a more decisive
advantage before their careers are over. I will say I
do think that Kyrie just has a couple more years

(27:06):
being at this level up to this point over Dame,
and now he is playing better than Dame. So although
Dame has been the better player for the most part
in recent years, I think over the course of their career,
there's also been several years where Kyrie has been the
better guy. So that does kind of even out the
peak advantage to some extent. Okay, Yunker Zach asks, if
you were coaching the MAVs, what game plans would you

(27:28):
implement on both sides of the ball. It feels like
the Celtics have so many great players that it seems
Dallas will have a hard time keeping up defensively. Who
would you have Luke and Kyrie hunting on offense?

Speaker 3 (27:38):
Yeah, I mean, these are the key dynamics of the series.
Starting with offense, in what I want Luke and Kyrie
to do. You're not gonna be able to do this
for one hundred percent of the game. But I think
I'm hunting out Horford and Kristaps Porzingis in space as
much as possible. I'm getting those guys involved with as
many pick and roll actions. Horford, I'm going at every

(27:58):
second he is on the back court. We were going
at out Horford like I think he's lumbering, I think
he's slow. At this point, I think he has been
their biggest week point defensively. Anytime they have one of
their bench guys and I have one of my stars
on the court, we're going at him. If it's Houser,
if it's Horford, if it's Pritchard, any bench guy, because
you're not gonna be able to have that luxury with

(28:20):
anybody in their starting five.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
So anytime there's a bench guy on.

Speaker 3 (28:24):
The court, I'm involving their man in the screening action
with Luca or Kyrie, and we're just getting them involved
in the action. And then with the starting lineup, poor
Zengis is the guy that I'm picking on, and not
because I think Porzengis is a poor defender. I actually
think he's pretty good in space because of his length.
He's decently agile and mobile, and he's a great rim protector.

(28:44):
But Luca's great at hunting switches, and it's gonna be
hard for Luca to shoot over the top of him
just because of his overwhelming length. But I'm gonna try
to attack his leg. I want to make Porzingis move.
I want to make him move quick like we are
going at that leg, and we're gonna make him move
and work defensively, just because it's something to attack. There's
not many weak points Boston has defensively, so anything that

(29:08):
I can exploit is Dallas's offense We're gonna go at,
and then defensively it's even tougher. I'd also say I
want Luca going at Derek White, at Jaalen Brown and
Drew Holliday. If we can't get those matchups in isolation,
I'm not winning much of that. But I think Luca
is stronger and taller than those guys, so he has

(29:29):
somewhat of an advantage in one on one. It's not
a major advantage, but it's a marginal one. Defensively, it's
a lot tougher because when you're going against their starting five,
They're gonna stretch the defense out. I'd just say try
to keep Lively and Gafford in the paint as much
as possible to take away the rim. It's tough because
they've got forty three point shooters literally everywhere on the court,

(29:52):
and that's easier said than done. So I don't know,
find the guy who's not knocking down shots and maybe
stick the big on him and cross your fingers. Defensively
is where I'm much more concerned with Dallas, just because
there really is nothing that you can do to exploit.

Speaker 1 (30:06):
Al Horford's the guy that I'm picking on defensively too.

Speaker 3 (30:09):
Like when Horford is on the court, that is the
guy that I'm sagging off, and I'm letting Lively and
Gafford rom in the paint and we're gonna let Horford
kill us. Is there gonna be a game where he
makes five plus threes? Probably, But I'm more likely to
have more games where he's shooting two of eight, two
of seven, three to nine, three of ten, you know,

(30:30):
where he's clanging way more than he's knocking down shots.

Speaker 1 (30:34):
Al Horford's the guy that I'm picking on on both
sides of the ball when he's on the court. I
don't know what you do with that starting five though, Man,
That to me.

Speaker 3 (30:42):
Is the the Rubik's cube kind of problem here. Man,
I don't really know what you do and what you
switch around to really exploit this Boston defense.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
To me, it's most about attacking Horford on the defensive end.
We've seen him have some off nights as a shooter,
and if you're gonna leave some, he's not a bad option.
But he's also a forty two percent three point shooter
in the regular season. Like, I don't want to discount
his shooting ability. He absolutely is every bit as likely
to kill you as he is to go cold. But
I do think there's a real opportunity to attack him

(31:13):
on the other side of the ball. Like, that's who
it is going to be about. Luke and Kyrie hunting
because he has really struggled defending pick and roll. He's
been a twentieth percentile pick and roll defender in these
playoffs and ultimately just isn't the necessary deterrent as a
drop defender. As a pick and roll and rip protector
isn't close to what KP is, And either way you

(31:33):
just have several predicaments pop up with your bigs trying
to guard Luca, particularly out of pick and roll in
any sort of traditional coverage. If it's conceding the lobs
to your vertical spaces, if it's conceding the skip passes,
if it's letting him get downhill too comfortably. The guy's
just an absolute maestro there. So, as I've talked about before,
as an effort to counteract that, I expect Boston with

(31:57):
their starting five, to put Jason Tatum on the Big,
to put KP on PJ Washington, so that way you
are able to switch every screening action with Derek Lively,
have Jason Tatum switch on to Luca, have Jalen Brown
or whoever else switch onto the big. You're not conceding
an advantage here. The roller isn't getting behind you, You're
not allowing Luca to get downhill out of drop. But

(32:19):
for ol Horford, he's gonna have to play some minutes
where Jayson Tatum isn't on the floor. And when that
is the case, well then I don't think that you
have the sort of big forward who I'm comfortable putting
on the big trusting him to hang with those guys
on the glass, who's also really a good option switching
on to Luca, So then you probably have to go
to a more traditional coverage. And I actually think I

(32:41):
prefer Horford switching then I do him just playing outright drop.
I just don't think he's good enough there. But I
also think if he's switching, you have an opportunity for
him to get toasted. The only reason I don't think
that's the most disastrous option for Horford, and to be clear,
it is definitely a one, is that he still moves

(33:03):
decently well in space and Luca doesn't necessarily beat you
with quickness, so he's probably going to be hunting the
step back three mostly when he gets those switches. That's
what he really likes to do against these bigs, get
them retreating and then get to that step back three,
and he may just be missing right. I would just
rather have him taking those looks where there's more volatility
than getting into the paint. But I do think for Boston,

(33:25):
you're kind of just picking your poison in the Horford minutes,
and I want to see Luca and Kyrie both very
aggressive attacking that matchup on the other side of the ball.
I would put Derek Jones Junior on Jason Tatum. I
would put PJ. Washington on Jalen Brown. I think that
way you get your best perimeter defender on their best
offensive player, and you force Tatum to try to prove
to you that he can really play bully ball, because

(33:46):
that's where he has an advantage against Derreck Jones Junior.
It's with his physicality, and Jalen Brown more does win
with physicality, and PJ. Washington is a better counter to that.
But sometimes we see Tatum get into these modes where
he's suddenly he's not fully asserting himself physically. If you
can get away with Derek Jones Junior on him because
he is in that mode, then I think that's a
win for your defense. I would play Derek Lively a

(34:08):
good bit more than Gafford for several reasons. He has
simply been playing better basketball as of late. He's better
guarding in space, which is really important in this matchup
when you have to cover so much ground and there's
so much shooting on the floor. He's just a bit
taller and longer to challenge KP. Gafford is a little
bit thicker, which on those post ups is an advantage,

(34:29):
but I don't expect KP to do a ton of
going at either of these guys on post ups. I
think he'll be much more trying to mismatch attack there,
and when it just comes to shooting over a guy,
Lively is just a bit bigger, a bit more comfortable
moving out in space. He's also the better decision maker
on offense. So I don't know that they'll start him
because maybe they just don't want to disrupt their rotations
like that their starting lineup, But I definitely think he

(34:50):
should be playing a good bit more in terms of
how you handle these star players out of pick and roll,
I would mostly be playing with the big and a
high drop coverage, so then you are in position to
potentially recover to pop in Christops porzingis. You deter these
guys from driving downhill, from getting into the paint, and
you can force them to try to make those skip passes,

(35:11):
as Dallas has really forced perimeter stars to do all
postseason trying to force them into making those skip passes,
and oftentimes the guys just haven't been quite consistent enough
there in the offense as a whole hasn't been good
enough in terms of their ball movement and their perimeter shooting.
I do think Boston is more of a challenge there.
I would still be trying to force them to make

(35:32):
those advanced playmaking reads. When you're talking about Tatum, and
especially with Jalen Brown, I would help more aggressively on
Jalen than anybody else because Dallas's rim protection is what
makes them a special defense. They have a lot of
good stuff going on, but it's that incredible rim protection.
And this is the matchup where you are most likely
to get punished for loading up the paint because there
is so much shooting. But I would just force Jalen

(35:54):
to beat you as a passer, force them to make
those kickout passes, force them to make those reads to shooters.
And also, he's just been so great downhill. He's been
so great around the paint that I don't want to
concede those drives to him. When KP is off the floor,
I would probably switch everything. I wouldn't do that when
KP is on the floor because I do worry so

(36:15):
much about his mismatch attacking. But when it's Horford out there,
I really trust, especially Lively to guard in space. I
think he's pretty good there, and so then I think
you're just doing a nice job of negating the advantages
created by pick and roll, and I would concede throughout
this series, or at least to start most of these
switches when Tatum and Brown are hunting a mismatch, if

(36:38):
it's Kyrie, who I think it'll most likely be, or
if it's Luca, the dilemma there is that you either
concede the switch and now they have a mismatch, or
you try to hedge in blitz and then you're potentially
conceding a three to Derek White or maybe Drew Holiday
after they are the screener. I would rather make Jason
Tatum prove that he can really be aggressive and beat

(37:01):
Kyrie as an isolation score, especially seeing help, because I
absolutely think that you have to make sure that he's
seeing help from the bigs there and you can try
to therefore induce him into settling, because as we talked about,
he hasn't been efficient as a post up player or
an isolation score in these playoffs. He absolutely has the
ability to be, but I just think Derek wide open
three is like the worst shot you can concede as

(37:22):
a defense, So I would at least start by saying, Okay,
let's see what Tatum can do in these matchups. But
that's still a real advantage for the Boston offense. And
that's what's hard. They just have overwhelming personnel, and I
do think that they ultimately just have more advantages offensively
and then a lot of good ways to deal with Dallas'
offense on the other side of the ball. All Right,

(37:42):
this one comes to us from Ethan Pritchard. Logan who
will be the best defender for either team and how
much importance does having the best defender carry into this series.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
I think it's one of the most important things in
this series.

Speaker 3 (37:54):
And I think the best defensive player on the court
is going to be the best defensive player in this series,
and that's Jason Ty. Tatum just has a lot of
responsibility on his shoulders in terms of, you know, I mean,
in terms of how he ends possessions so consistently for Boston.

Speaker 1 (38:09):
He's a great rebounder. In terms of matchup wise, like
I think if Luca is getting what he wants against
Jalen Brown, against Derek White, against Drew Holliday, and this
isn't a slight on any of those guys's perimeter defenders.
I think they're all great.

Speaker 3 (38:25):
Luca is just so overwhelmingly dominant as an offensive scorer.
And I recited these numbers in our NBA Finals preview.
He was shooting fifty three percent on step back jays
and step back threes. He was shooting forty three percent
overall from deep. Like, if we get that version of
Luka Doncic, the Boston Celtics are going to have to
make an adjustment. If he is just getting to all

(38:47):
these looks against these smaller guys, Tatum is the guy
that's gonna have to stick on him like glue and
take his level up a notch.

Speaker 1 (38:53):
So I think Tatum is.

Speaker 3 (38:53):
Going to be responsible if Lucas eating for shutting him down,
for ending possessions consistently, if Boston switching everything, He's got
a really important job. But again, I mean, it's gonna
be your best defensive player, Jason Tatum versus their best
offensive player, Luka Dancic. Who's gonna win that battle? It
likely could be the most important matchup in battle of

(39:14):
this series. Right, we want to do Luca versus Tatum
as stars. But I mean when We're looking at these
matchups that very well could be the deciding factor, and
so I think it is very important. I think Tatum
is by far the best defender of either of these teams.
I think he is an elite perimeter defender with what
he can do at.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
Helpside in the Roma role too.

Speaker 3 (39:33):
Like Tatum is a defensive playmaker, he is a game
changer on that end, and when you were facing a
team with two offensive creators of this level, it's gonna
be you know, I think it's on him to slow
him down. And so if Boston's defense is struggling containing
Kyrie and Luca Jason, Tatum is the secret.

Speaker 1 (39:53):
Weapon that I'm deploying against both of these guys.

Speaker 3 (39:56):
And there are some size issues that arise, but you know,
with some other matchups, like PJ is gonna have some
size on whoever they switch on to him. Derek Jones
Junior is gonna have some size on whoever they switch
on to him if they choose to put Tatum on Luca,
But Lucas gonna have a size advantage against either of
those guys too. So I think it's one of the
most important factors in this series. And I think Tatum

(40:17):
has a massive burden on being awesome on that end. Man,
I think it is imperative that Tatum is elite defensively
in this series.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
Tatum is my answer here as well, and it's particularly
in this matchup just the importance that he does have
because of how I believe Boston is going to approach
this series with him on the big with him also
being the guy who you want to be able to
switch on to Luca, like, There's just such a wide
range of responsibilities that he bears there, and I legitimately
think that he is your best answer to guarding Luca

(40:48):
if they do ultimately trigger those switches, And then I
think he does so many great things on the interior,
and he is your best defensive rebounder. He's my answer.
There's a number of guys who have very important challenge here.
Drew and White obviously both will have a huge task.
With Kyrie expected to mostly be Drew Jalen as Luca's
primary defender, will have a big task, and I think

(41:09):
all of those dudes are pretty well equipped to handle
these roles. I think KP also as a pure improtector,
can have a real pronounced impact, But I would have
him five of five on this Boston team for this
series because I think there's more opportunity to exploit him.
I think regular season he's definitely one of their most
impactful defenders. This one is a little bit different, and

(41:30):
I think it's sort of more about, Okay, how can
we keep him from getting attacked in space? How can
we just keep Luca from going at traditional pick and
roll Biggs period, because he's been so exceptional there. On
the flip side, there's a number of really important defenders
for Dallas too, and I think that's where you look
at Derek Jones Junior, his ability to handle the Tata

(41:51):
matchup if he does get it, which I don't necessarily
expect Dallas to start with. I think they probably start
with PJ. But I think both those guys, they they
provide an interesting counter to Boston because there are very
few teams that have two wings like this who are
relatively well equipped to guard these two dudes. Right, they
just do so much bullying, and they're capable of doing

(42:14):
so much mismatch hunting, and even most teams just don't
have two wings built to guard two star scoring wings
who are a big and strong and athletic and skilled
like Tatum and Brown are. Dallas has the potential to
be an exception there, but I think they're best defender,
probably in a vacuum or their most impactful would be
Derek Lively because of the Rimp protection, although again in

(42:36):
this matchup, there's a little bit more of an opportunity
to exploit a big being parked in the paint than
we've seen in previous series for Dallas. All right, this
one's just for you, Logan, Just for you, buddy, specially
wrapped and served you from Wesley who asks, what would
Logan think if Tatum wins the chip versus if he loses.

Speaker 3 (42:56):
It's all gonna depend on how Tatum plays in the finals.
You know, I think his team is so stacked. Winning
or losing is gonna have a marginal impact on how
I view Tatum. And I'm really low on Tatum, Like
he is top ten to fringe, top ten to me
right now, Like he's you know, somewhere between like eight

(43:17):
and twelve or thirteen.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
Like I value Tatum.

Speaker 3 (43:20):
But if he wins and performs really well, I think
he could climb to like outskirts the top five. He'd
go from that range to five, six, seven most likely.
But like, don't get me wrong, I am gonna get
on him. This is an all time talented team. If
Tatum comes out here and drops, you know, inefficient twenty

(43:43):
three twenty four a night, isn't playmaking well? Is really inefficient? Yeah,
I'm gonna get on him. This is a great team
and I view Tatum is this team's number one. And
in these clutch scenarios, Tatum, I still think has to
be the alpha dog, has to take over, has to
go get his looks.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
And frankly, Jason Tatum has not been the alpha dog
for the Boston Celtics in crunch time.

Speaker 3 (44:03):
Jalen Brown has played better. Like Jalen Brown has consistently
been the guy who wants the basketball. And I think
those scenarios are gonna really make my gauge on what
I think at Jason Tatum. It's the biggest age in basketball.
The Boston Celtics and Jason Tatum haven't legitimately really been tested.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
He has underperformed in the clutch up to this point.

Speaker 3 (44:26):
And so in these clutch games where I expect a
lot of tight, nitty, gritty, nasty battles down to the wire,
against Dallas, I think there's gonna be a lot of
clutch moments. How Tatum performs in those moments is probably gonna,
you know, determine how I view Tatum more over than
anything else.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
If they win the chip, I think he could climb
to seven to five for me. If they lose, he'll
probably stick in that same area where I got him
in that eight to twelve thirteen range.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
But really, how Tatum performs in the clutch and how
how he chooses to take over or not take over,
if he's missing shots, if he's getting to his spots,
that's really gonna determine it.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
I mean, that's a huge dynamic to.

Speaker 3 (45:08):
Me, Carson and how I view both Tatum and Brown, Like,
there's a very real scenario in which I think Jalen
Brown could be the Celtics' best player in the clutch.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
That guy wants the ball, that guy's got something that
Tatum doesn't.

Speaker 3 (45:20):
To me, where I don't know, man, Jalen Brown may
have a jankier game, he may not have as much polish.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
Jalen Brown wants to get downhill, He wants to play physically,
He wants to knock down big shots. He wants the rock.
I don't really feel that way with Tatum sometimes.

Speaker 3 (45:35):
Man like Tatum is so passive, He's okay with letting
the moment pass him by in certain games in these
playoffs where I don't really feel that way with Jaylen Brown.
And I'm not saying that Jaylen Brown is gonna leap
frog Jason Tatum. But if Jaln Brown is the better
player in the clutch, I think he has an opportunity
to climb higher. But yeah, man, they gotta win this

(45:58):
chip dude, and Tatum, in my opinion, has to be
the best player for the Celtics if he really wants
to change my mind and climb higher in my top
ten rankings.

Speaker 2 (46:06):
I've got nothing to add here. This question wasn't directed
to me. It's not my place to speak on it. Okay,
Azazel asks, if Luca has a dominant performance in these
finals against one of the best teams we've seen in
five plus years, how can he not be considered at
least the co best player in the world With Jokic.
MVPs don't really matter for best in the world discussions,
and they'll each have one godly title run.

Speaker 3 (46:28):
What I take issue with is that this guy said
they'll each have one godly title run. I don't think
Luca will have that. Carson, you to a breakdown on
our show with Joel the other day, and you put
a social clip on social media that I thought broke
it down pretty well.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
Social media.

Speaker 3 (46:44):
We completely wiped under the rug the fact that Luca
was not playing good Luca basketball through the first two
rounds of these playoffs. After one great run or after
one great series against the best defense in basketball, and
it was great, shot the hell out of the ball Torch.
Jaden McDaniels like, yes, he played great in that one series.

(47:06):
The different dynamic to me between Luca and Jokic's title
run was that Jokic killed every single series and left
no doubt that he was the best player in every
series and was the best player in the world. Luca
left some meat on the bone in those first two
rounds in one great series. Does not a player make

(47:26):
like Jokic twenty nine, thirteen and a half, nine and a.

Speaker 1 (47:30):
Half on sixty three percent through shooting in his run.
Luca this title run twenty nine, ten and nine on fifty.

Speaker 3 (47:35):
Six percent through shooting, And in a way, does this
take away from how great Luca is as a player,
and if you want to have him as your co
best player with Nicolea.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
Jokic cool, I'm just not ready to do that yet.

Speaker 3 (47:46):
Now, if he has a great, historic finals run, it'll
make the margins really close, and it'll make our arguments
that much more.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
So that's going to be.

Speaker 3 (47:55):
The headline out of these finals. If Luca Ball's out
in the Mavericks win this, win the finals, that's gonna
be everybody's consensus. Luca is the best player in the world.
There's no doubt in my mind. You know, that's what
everybody's gonna be saying, because that's what we do.

Speaker 1 (48:08):
We react to who won the title and who is
the best player on that team. I think the same.

Speaker 3 (48:13):
Way that if the Boston Celtics win the title, everybody
is gonna go clamor and go run to crown Jason
Tatum as the best player in the world and say, oh,
he had a godly title run, when the reality was no,
Tatum was pretty bad in the first two rounds too,
and stepped his game up in the conference finals and
in the finals.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
So I just think that Jokic and Luca had completely
different levels of consistency during their Finals run, Jokic was
consistently great every series, every single game, every crunch time moment,
and throughout the title run, where I don't think Luca was.
So I'm still gonna have Jokic. I don't know, man,
Unless Luca puts up.

Speaker 3 (48:50):
You know, forty ten to ten on sixty five percent
truth shooting against one of the best defensive teams we've
ever seen, sure that might move me. But unless we
get that kind of level of step up, I don't
think I'm gonna be ready to move off of Jokic.
And if you want to hold Yokic's playoff run this
year against him, sure by all means. But when we're
I just don't think we should willy nilly just be

(49:11):
throwing around godly title runs like that. Man, I don't
think this is the best version of Luca that we
could have got Series in, series out. I think we
got that from Jokic, and I want to reward Jokic
for that. Man. I don't want to just completely sweep
his twenty twenty three run under the rug because Luca
had a really good run, like that's one of the

(49:32):
greatest finals runs or the playoff in finals runs, ever,
and I don't want to just completely let that, you know,
get lost with the win.

Speaker 2 (49:41):
I don't necessarily disagree with a lot of what you've said,
and I do think the end to end dominance matchup
to match up being so clearly like head and shoulders
above every other player in the series. That is something
that Jolkic had that Luka definitely did not have in
the first two rounds of this series. At the same time,
if Luca dominates this series and carries Dallas through against

(50:01):
a significantly more talented basketball team, then I think it'd
be totally fair to say that he is the co
best player in the world. If you want to make
your case he's the best player in the world like that,
to me, he would be really valid. He'd be going
through consecutive awesome defenses, a Minnesota defense that is one
of the best this century in my opinion, VI's also
gave Jokic more trouble than it did to him, like

(50:23):
he absolutely obliterated them, and then a juggernaut team in
Boston that I think is really well equipped to guard
him coming off a season averaging thirty four to nine
to ten on sixty two percent true shooting, like be
my guest. I just think he has to do that.
My problem is more with the crowning after one series,
a very impressive series, but pretending that is equivalent to

(50:47):
what Jokic did last year, pretending that that means that
he's had a significantly better playoff run overall than Yokic
even did this year. Like, that's where it just feels
overly reactive to me. That's what I took issue with.
I do think that Jokic is run last year, which
was an all timer, built him some margin, and one
series is not everything in these conversations, And I just

(51:09):
feel like the way that some people got way too
low on Luca last year after the MAVs missed the playoffs,
which I certainly did not do, the same thing kind
of might be happening with Yokic right now, not to
as extreme of an extent, but nevertheless too much so.
And by the way, I think even this is happening
with Yannis to some extent just because of health, Like

(51:29):
there is an extreme recency bias, there is an extreme Oh,
this guy played best most recently, that guy is the best.
These dudes are all amazing, and it's not ridiculous to
say that any one of them has the opportunity to
decisively grab that throne. I just don't think that Luca's
done it yet. And honestly, even if he were to
dominate the series, I wouldn't say that he's decisively grabbed
that throne. I would say that he's then on more

(51:51):
even footing with Jokic. But I do think it's important
that we discussed that although Jokic would have the better
run end to end, Luca would have played amazing series
against two teams that, in my opinion, are better than
anybody who Denver faced last year. And now I think
a lot of the discrediting Denver's path last year is
super lame and super stupid. And people just look at

(52:12):
these teams in a vacuum and say this was their
regular season record. They don't acknowledge how well they were
playing through the postseason, who they beat to get there.
They don't acknowledge Jokic's individual matchups, in the fact that
he individually faced the three best defensive bigs in basketball
and absolutely obliterated all of them. So the totality of
that run Luca can't catch up too. In my opinion
just because of how he started off slower, but he

(52:34):
was legitimately hurt at the start of this run and
he would have a very very strong finish. So I
would never problem if you say that Luca is the
best player in the world after a dominant series against Boston.
Let's just see that happen first before everybody is saying
Luca is the best guy in the world. Okay, Carson
phenomenal name asks how many Finals winners since two thousand
beat this Celtics team.

Speaker 3 (52:55):
I only wrote down with three that I would concretely
take over this Celtics team. There's a few teams I'm
on the fence with. I would take the early two
thousands Lakers. I just think that I mean, Kobe and
Scheck I think are shredding. There's just that's such a
dominant duo. The KD and the Steph Warriors. I'm definitely
taking over. I think that's the greatest team of all time.

(53:16):
I don't think any team is beating that team. And
then I would take last year's Nuggets for sure. The
level that Jamal was at, the level that MPJ was at,
the level that Gordon and KCP like you got Bruce
Brown off the bench. I think that team was better
than this year's team, and the level that Jokic was
at as a difficult shot maker, that to me is

(53:37):
the key dynamic. I think Jokic was going to go
through anybody that came into his path, even this upgraded
Boston team.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
The teams.

Speaker 3 (53:44):
I was on the fence about the eight Celtics, who
I think are a very interesting matchup just because they've
got so much individual and aggregate talent too. The weak
spot is obviously big Perk, which is probably where I
side with the twenty twenty four Celtics. The ten Lakers
I think are an underrated group, like Kobe pal bying them.

(54:05):
The fact that you've got good role players there too,
Aresa's in one year, you've got Metal one year. I
still think I'm taking this year's Celtics team. That one's close,
and then the two teams I really considered the twenty
twelve and twenty thirteen heat just because I mean, you're
getting Lebron, d Wade and Bosh, and then the twenty
nineteen Raptors are close to me. But I'm only concretely

(54:27):
taking three teams or three finals champions since two thousand,
maybe five.

Speaker 2 (54:35):
So I think we're in a similar range, but I
may be more on the fence with a few more teams.
I think the Warriors and Lakers are absolutely unequivocally clear.
I would pretty confidently take the eight Celtics. It's one
of the best defenses ever. And I do think there
was a level of experience and maturity with the Big
Three run You.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
Don't think they're picking on sorry, just in a hype.

Speaker 3 (54:57):
I know they're accomplished. And this is hard because we're
comparing two completely different eras of Baba.

Speaker 2 (55:03):
I'll anticipate your question. I'm not factoring in that Big
Perk couldn't play in twenty twenty four. I am not
necessarily viewing this in a vacuum as Okay, who would
beat who. I'm interpreting this question more as where would
they rank among champions, Like who is the more convincing,
who is the greater team within the context of their era,
because that's kind of the only way to really view

(55:24):
these conversations. That's what's so funny about all the like
twenty seventeen Warriors versus four Pistons or whatever. It's like, generally,
the modern teams are gonna win. And also they're just
built for a different style and a different era of basketball.
So viewing it through that prism, I would give the
HD eight Celtics, that was such a dominant regular season team,
such a great defense for awesome basketball players. I do

(55:46):
think that their offense and Perk and Kendrick Perkins was there.
Their offense is not as dynamic as the Celtics team,
not all that close, and that team struggled a good
bit more than people remember in the postseason against the
not so great teams, against the pretty mediocre Hawks team,
against the pretty mediocre Cavs team, they weren't super convincing,
So I would lean them. I would lean last year's

(56:08):
Nuggets because I think with Bruce Brown, with the level
that the supporting cast was playing at last year, that
was a special offense and they were defending really well.
I would lean the twenty thirteen Heat even though you
didn't have a great version of d Wade at that time.
I think sort of how you talk about Jokic being
at that unstoppable level, that version of Lebron is really
difficult to deny. And that was a better supporting cast

(56:29):
with Batya and with Ray Allen and whatnot. And then
I have a number of teams in the sort of
maybe category. The seven Spurs really really good champ the
twenty fourteen Spurs the like ultimate beautiful basketball aggregate talent,
nobody playing at a superstar level on that team, but
they just played such good connected offense and defense, so

(56:52):
much skill, so many positive contributors. I would have the
oh nine, twenty ten Lakers in this maybe range, and
maybe like the twenty sixteen Calves. I also think the
four Pistons. You could make a case that they would
just sort of smack them in the mouth with that
sort of dominant defense, and then maybe bring out the
worst in the Celtics offense. But realistically those last few,

(57:13):
I think I would lean the Celtics, this version of
the Celtics and all of them. I do think that
they just have more overwhelming talent. They have more avenues
to dominance on both sides of the ball. It's ridiculous.
They have five of the top fifty players in basketball.
You just very rarely see that. But the advantage almost
all these teams have is that like more unstoppable number

(57:33):
one driving things, which is compelling. The Spurs are a
little bit different. It's not as much about that, but
it's about the super impressive team and the aggregate. But
I do think I would probably lean the Celtics because
of the talent factor, but the Spurs have the consistency
and the process and the IQ. So my answer with
this may depend on how the Celtics finish out this series,

(57:54):
because that's kind of the annoying thing. We haven't really
seen them tested in these playoffs. And that is very
much related to our next qu question from Abby, which
I think is a very interesting one. Where would this
Boston team rank all time with a dominant finals, say
they close it out in five.

Speaker 3 (58:10):
I think you just hit on one of my big
keys of this question. That was, you know, it's hard
to rank because of how easy their path was. Right,
That's kind of what I don't know makes this Celtics team.
We talked about this a little bit with Joel Right.
I think it's a reason that people like to pick
on the Celtics. We haven't seen them battle tested, and
so I feel like, I don't know, I'm gonna feel
almost like short changed if this series ends in five.

Speaker 1 (58:33):
I'm gonna be so disappointed. It's like all right, man,
we're waiting to see the Celtics get tested.

Speaker 2 (58:40):
Answer to the test, wouldn't it?

Speaker 1 (58:41):
All right? Man, we're waiting to see the Celtics get tested?
All right? I guess it? Would you know? I mean,
if they just if they just mop up Dallas, dare.

Speaker 2 (58:48):
I say that would be an a on the test?

Speaker 1 (58:52):
I would say, potentially a top ten basketball team.

Speaker 4 (58:54):
And ever maybe yeah, dude, wow, I mean if they
mop Dallas in five, even though their like path is
super disappointing, and I don't think they have a number
one that compares to a lot of these teams is
number one, and that's the key dynamic.

Speaker 1 (59:13):
They'd be towards the end of my top ten.

Speaker 3 (59:16):
And I'm obviously omitting a couple of versions of teams.
I'm not gonna have every KD Steph Warriors team. I'm
not gonna have every ninety Bowls team, right, I would
take one iteration of those teams, and we'd have different
dynasties for more variety. But yeah, I think they certainly
have a case. I'm taking Katie and Steph's Warriors, I'm
taking the nineties Bowls. I'm taking I think, you know,

(59:37):
the eighty seven Lakers, the eighty six Celtics, the eighty
three Sixers.

Speaker 2 (59:42):
Sixty Celtics, seventy two.

Speaker 3 (59:44):
Yeah, I was gonna say, one, we're gonna take a
Koreem team, We're gonna take some old Celtics.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
But after that, man, maybe a Spurs team too.

Speaker 2 (59:52):
You know, mention the eighty nine Pistons. Yeah, it's a
pretty dominant team.

Speaker 3 (59:59):
Yeah they're they're low, but I think you're looking at
a team that would probably be nine or ten. There's
so much freaking talent here. And what they did in
this regular season, you know, sixty plus wins. Again, the
path sucks, but they lose what two games on the
way to the finals. Bro, Like, I don't know, this
is a this is a great basketball team, and I

(01:00:20):
don't I don't want to overlook that. I think the
damning part of this is that they don't have a
number one that is on the level of a Kareem,
of a Moses, of a Bird, of a Magic, of
a Jordan, of a Steph or KD.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
But this is a damn goad basketball team. So I'd
say they're in the.

Speaker 3 (01:00:38):
Fringe top ten, top ten range, and that's still freaking historic. Man,
I mean, that is all time stuff. I'd take the
two thousands Lakers over them.

Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
Yeah, I couldn't remember if you mentioned that.

Speaker 3 (01:00:47):
Yeah, yeah, I would take the Lakers clearly for sure,
at a different level. But they're fighting for it, man,
they're clon If they dominate Dallas in this it's a
real conversation to me.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
I don't think that they have the opportunity to be
top ten if you wanted to argue, sort of top
fifteen ish, okay, I pulled up my list of the
top ten NBA teams ever from whenever we did this episode.
I have the eighty three six Ers at number ten,
and the eighty three Sixers were a sixty five win
regular season team that then, as we know, very nearly

(01:01:18):
went faux fo fo absolutely obliterated the Lakers and the
Bucks in the playoffs.

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
Sorry not to cut you off.

Speaker 3 (01:01:25):
You have multiple literations of the same franchise or dynasty
in that right though.

Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
The only one that I have a repeat of is
the Bulls. I have both the ninety one Bulls and
the ninety six Bulls here, but if we were then
I would include also the ninety seven Bowls above them.
I think that you can get to a pretty solid fifteen.
But after that, yeah, it wouldn't be ridiculous to have
the Celtics up that high, and their statistical case will

(01:01:51):
be a very, very impressive because as we talked about,
like their top three in net rating, top five and
point differentials, so regular season resume, the record isn't quite there,
but those metrics absolutely are among the best ever. They'd
be the most talented complete starting five in like close
to forty years. That's pretty outstanding. They would be if

(01:02:12):
they win in five, sixteen, and three in the playoffs,
like if it's a convincing five that they beat Dallas
in then you'd be hard pressed to make the path
point a super relevant one. And then it just does
kind of become difficult to evaluate this team among some
of the other ones in that same range, because the
regular season is there, the playoff dominance would be there,

(01:02:33):
the playoff path would not be on the same level.
I feel comfortable with saying they'd be somewhere in like
that fifteen to twenty range if they have a convincing win.
Their basketball talent is absolutely there. Overall, as you mentioned,
it does take a really exceptional sort of complete team
to get here. Without having that all time great number one.
The best version of it that we've ever seen would be,

(01:02:54):
to me, like the eighty nine and the ninety Pistons.
But the eighty nine team was better because Isaiah's the
only guy on this list. To you look and you're like, yeah,
you know, he wasn't a convincing top five guy in
the league. People kind of like to rewrite history and
pretend that he was, but he really wasn't. It was
an overwhelmingly great team and overwhelmingly great team defense. So
they are absolutely one of these strongest champs in recent

(01:03:15):
memory if they get it done. That sort of end
ten dominance regular season through the postseason is very rare
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Speaker 2 (01:04:52):
You had a question very much on the flip side
of that logan from active vocab that's sort of the
best case scenario happens out as Boston look active Vocab ask,
if Boston does succumb to the pressure of the moment,
what do you think will be the outward signs of that?
In other words, if things go wrong, how do you
start to tell what does that look like?

Speaker 3 (01:05:09):
I mean, I think the first thing is Tatum probably
craps his pants. He's settling for threes, He's getting overwhelmed
by double teams and making playmaking errors. Boston's playing way
too fast, They're chucking up threes, they're missing long they're
letting Dallas get easy transition opportunities. And what I think
you're gonna see is like lackadaisical. You know, this lacks

(01:05:32):
of daisical effort do the first And I don't anticipate
any of this happening because I think Boston is so
experienced in these games and have played so many, you know,
big playoff games with a lot of this group, specifically
Jalen and Jason.

Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
I don't really anticipate this happening. Maybe for a game,
maybe for a quarter, we.

Speaker 3 (01:05:53):
Get that version of the Celtics, but we saw a
lot of it in the early rounds right where they're
just not really applying great ball pressure. They're kind of
letting them get whatever they want. That's the version of
Boston where I think they're completely crumbling under the pressure
of the moment. But the reason I also don't have
that expectation is these guys are all so much more talented, Right,

(01:06:19):
You're not going to Marcus Smart and Robert Williams for plays.
You have Drew Holliday and Derek White, where I just
feel like those guys are way more composed. I feel
like Porzingis is way more composed than those guys. So
I really don't If there's gonna be a guy that crumbles,
it would probably be Tatum because I just don't trust
Tatum mentally, if I had to pick a guy. But

(01:06:42):
I really don't anticipate this happening.

Speaker 1 (01:06:44):
Man, I think this. I think this is a team that.

Speaker 3 (01:06:47):
Realizes the gravity of the moment, and they've worked all
season long to get here, and I think they're ready.

Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
I think they're ready to go battle for it. Like
I don't think we're gonna see a one on the
level of like a Warrior is kind of finals where
they just fall apart.

Speaker 3 (01:07:03):
I think I think these guys, I think JB and
J t Or are more more ready, and I think
this team is just better and more composed. So I
don't anticipate this. I don't anticipate a complete Boston Celtics collapse.

Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
I misunderstood what you said when you said warriors. I
think you were talking about twenty sixteen, and I was like,
what an unnecessary shot? Why are we bringing Harrison Barnes
into this. I agree with a lot of what you said. Uh,
I am much more optimistic, much more confident about this
version of Boston. I'm picking them to win this series.
But if things are going south, we do mostly know
what it'll look like forcing early shot clock threes, and

(01:07:42):
I love Boston taking a bunch of threes, but there's
a difference between the good catch and shoot looks that
they've created and the ones that are sort of one
pass instinctive, let me just force this up. I also
think you could see the decision making from Tatum and
Brown be an issue. One thing that we haven't talked
about is I wonder if we see Dallas mix in
some zone here. I don't think that that's necessarily their identity,

(01:08:04):
but it's just something that we've seen kind of be
a like, ooh, let's see if we can trip Boston up,
throw them out of their rhythm in little short stints.
But specifically it's about Tatum. It's about is he aggressive
enough physically? Is he consistent enough as a playmaker. Is
he creating a high shot quality for himself or is
he settling? Is he taking bad shots? Is he not
asserting himself enough in the key stretches. I do think

(01:08:27):
you look to him because the reality is there's a
lot of really steady contributors on this team, but also
their roles just don't lend themselves to meltdowns nearly as much.
You kind of have to be the guy if you
are going to have enough responsibility for things to really
go south because of your performance. And Tatum, we've seen

(01:08:47):
the duality, we've seen the inconsistency. I am more optimistic
about him in this series than I have been previously,
but also a lot of my faith in Boston is
about their aggregate talent the team as a whole. Magnus
Millers logan, what is the most interesting finals matchup of
the last twenty years?

Speaker 3 (01:09:05):
I really think this is one of the most interesting
finals matchups we've had in quite some time. Considering the
star versus great team dynamic, you know, Luke and Kyrie
basically being matched up against this super team.

Speaker 1 (01:09:18):
It seems like this juggernaut. I think the next one
that I look to is kind of similar.

Speaker 3 (01:09:25):
I thought the Dynamics in the twenty eleven, like Heat
Mavericks Finals was really interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:09:30):
Derk in this great team with great role players down
the roster man, I mean, that was a great rotation
versus the Big Three. That was awesome.

Speaker 3 (01:09:40):
Boston versus La Kobe, you know, taking on those great
Celtics teams I thought were great Dynamics, Those to me
are the most interesting, and then probably twenty sixteen, I
mean I just can't leave that one off man Lebron
versus the Warriors, like, that's just an all time classic.

Speaker 1 (01:09:59):
Those are my favorite.

Speaker 3 (01:10:00):
Number one is probably and maybe this is just nostalgia talking,
because it is the first finals I really remember like
being invested in and watching leading up to it. So
Heat Mavericks is probably my favorite most interesting matchup just
in terms of the number one disparity. And this is
no discredit to Dirk, but you know, Dirk had a
great team behind when he was a great number one

(01:10:21):
for that roster. But like the contrast between where Dirk
was at in his career and where Lebron was at
in his career, I think was an awesome dynamic, you know.
And you had in the fact that Dallas Deith thrones
La they beat Oklahoma City in that run, the young
group there, So that to me is probably my most
interesting finals matchup since then. But I think there's a

(01:10:41):
lot of great picks and this one ranks up there
all time for me too. Dude.

Speaker 1 (01:10:45):
The star versus great team dynamic is always super fun.

Speaker 2 (01:10:50):
The MAVs one is fascinating. The twenty eleven MAVs, of course,
And it's interesting because if I remember correctly, like there
was a pretty even split in terms of expert picks
on versus Portland in the first round, kind of similar
to this year's MAVs team who's the lower seed they're
the five seed, But there were definitely a lot of
people on both sides of that debating. The same goes
for OKC and same goes for Western Conference Finals, So like,

(01:11:14):
if they were to pull it off, they would very
much be beating the odds, kind of like that twenty
eleven team. Some other ones that I would acknowledge. I
think twenty thirteen to fourteens per seat. Those were two
really fascinating series. Again, the contrast between the star power
and the ultimate team factor, because that's the other thing
with twenty eleven. It's not so much about Lebron versus Dirk.
To me, it's more about the Big Three versus Dirt

(01:11:36):
and just a bunch of really good role players. It
was the overall star power because obviously Dirk totally outplayed Lebron,
but of course Lebron was definitely viewed as the better
player at the time, just wasn't in that run. And
in that series I have two more. Oh wait, Celtics
Lakers was fascinating just because you have two of the
most iconic franchises, both of whom had been pretty down

(01:11:58):
on their luck, and it was just sort of like
a seismic shift in the league because both these teams
were put together that year. You have the Big Three
assembled in the offseason prior, and then you have Powe
traded to the Lakers midway through that season. Pretty awesome
dynamics that play there. And then I have the four
Pistons against the Lakers again, another team that was assembled

(01:12:18):
mid season with them adding Sheed, but huge contrast overwhelming
star power versus ultimate team, ultimate defense in Detroit and
the Lakers were considered like the most stacked they'd been
because of the fact that they had added Karl Malone
and they had added Gary Payton, Like that team is
so comically oozing with all time talent. Of course, Carl

(01:12:41):
and Gary are certainly past their primes at this point,
but just the name power is overwhelming. I think Detroit
is the biggest underdog to ever win the title. I
believe they were plus five hundred to win that series
and they got it done. So those are some pretty
compelling matchups. Okay, that kind of does it for Final Talk.
Now we're gonna quickly go through some of your off
season questions. This one comes to us from Yeah, I

(01:13:04):
was wondering y'all's opinions on the upcoming draft prospects. Who's
not talked about enough. Who do you think is getting
too much hype?

Speaker 1 (01:13:11):
We can start with guys who aren't getting enough hype,
will start positive. One of the guys I think that
isn't getting enough hype in this class is Isaiah Callier.
I think a lot of the point guard shine went
to Stefan Castle, you know, after Yukon won the title,
And I want to be clear about something. Callier and
Castle are about neck and neck with me, but I
think Callier has a higher scoring and playmaking ceiling. I

(01:13:33):
like him on ball a little bit more than Castle,
and so I prefer him marginally there. But they're covering
him like he's a top ten to lottery guy, and
I think Caller is a guy I would probably take
in the top five. I love how strong he is
and how physically he plays. His shot looks mechanically smooth,
like he's a big athletic point guard. I just think

(01:13:56):
his mold is good, and he was a number one
prospect in his high school class. Like I really believe
in Callier, and I just I love his physical imposition.
Another guy like Cody Williams again, another guy that's being
talked at his top ten lottery I think he's top five.
He does so many little great things, like I think
it's gonna fluctuate.

Speaker 3 (01:14:17):
I don't know if you're looking at a superstar here,
but I think Cody is at least a great role
player immediately, and then a guy who has, you know,
thinks he does just a really high level. I think
his length and size defensively, I just think he'd be
a great number three or number two. I don't necessarily
think he's a number one lead guy, but I think

(01:14:38):
you're getting a guy who's gonna be a great complimentary piece,
you know, cutting off ball, making shots, playing within the
flow of the offense. And then the other two guys
I like are two G League ignite wings, Ron Holland
and Matas Buzalis. I just did a breakdown on Holland.
Holland similar to Williams. I don't know if you're getting
a superstar. Holland needs to progress as an off the

(01:14:59):
dribble shot, make as a floor spacer, as a playmaker,
like to be a star. But he does so many
great things well rounded, Like he's a great athlete, he's
a really good defensive playmaker. I think he's just a
mental case. Carson and I don't mean that it's like
he's crazy, but I just think court awareness is the

(01:15:19):
biggest thing with Holland, getting up to mental game speed,
knowing where I need to be, where I need to
move my feet, where is the ball going. And he's eighteen,
like I think all that is gonna come, you know,
through two or three more years of playing basketball. I
think you're getting a great number two or number three.
And that's the thing with this class. I mean, that's
what a lot of teams are gonna have to settle for.

(01:15:40):
I don't know how many legitimate number one basketball players
you have in this class. I'm not sure if there's one,
especially offensively. So you need to be looking for complimentary guys,
and I think Holland's a great complimentary guy along with Boozellis. Bozellis,
to me, is very similar to Wagner in archetype. You know,

(01:16:02):
maybe not a freak athletic wing, but he's a good athlete,
but good change of pace, good ball handler, good floor
space or good touch and just makes good decisions.

Speaker 1 (01:16:11):
And he's long.

Speaker 3 (01:16:13):
So those are all guys that I think are just
kind of they're being looked at as lottery guys. When
I think they should all be like legitimate top ten
to top five prospects. Callier, Williams, Boozellis, and Holland I
all think are a little underrated at this point in.

Speaker 1 (01:16:27):
The draft process.

Speaker 2 (01:16:30):
Boozellis is probably gonna go top five, and he was
considered the number one guy before this year, but basketball
actually went down. I do think he's different from Franz.
I think that Franz is more polished as lead ball
handler or a real secondary ball handler from the perimeter
and as a playmaker, and I think I just said
it better as a finisher.

Speaker 3 (01:16:49):
The one thing I want to mention that I think
Bozzellis has an edge on is defensively. I think Bozellis
is a defensive stud.

Speaker 2 (01:16:56):
Bozellis definitely plays a different role defensively. He's got more
of that big man, low man secondary rim protection. I
think Franz is a significantly better perimeter defender. That's not
to say that Boozellis is bad there. I just think
he's okay. I don't want to sell short Franz as
a defender, and particularly as a defensive prospect. That was
definitely one of his calling cards. And the question with

(01:17:17):
Boozellis is a his shot is a much bigger question
than it was with Franz, so I think they're a
little different. I would like Franz more, but Boozellis I
like I went a little bit deeper with some of
my names here because I do think you're right. So
much of this draft is just about finding good role players,
finding complimentary skill sets. So I'm talking about a couple

(01:17:40):
of dudes who are probably gonna go outside the lottery,
but who I just really like. Tristan da Silva out
of Colorado, who I've talked about before. You mentioned Cody Williams,
a couple of buffs who you just gotta love if
you want versatile wings. Guy just does a lot at
a high level. He's very polished. He's a good shooter
of the basketball. He's big, he's athletic, he's strong, he
can defend multiple positions. He's a good playmaker. I just

(01:18:03):
think the sort of plug and play wing forward that
really any team would benefit from having if you're trying
to seriously win. And then I have Tyler Kollik, the
point guard out of Marquette, who I just think every
time you watch him has such a special command of
the game. Now, he doesn't have the athletic tools to
be approaching star status in this league, but I'll be

(01:18:23):
damned if that guy isn't a legit starting caliber point guard,
one of the best guys in terms of running a
second unit in the league. There's just a level of
craftiness as a driver, of touch, finishing, of maturity as
a playmaker. I really really like his game offensively, and
I think that he's one of those guys that I'm
just super confident in being good. That's kind of the

(01:18:44):
theme with those two. Some of the dudes you mentioned
are definitely viewed more highly as prospects, deservedly so because
they have more upside, but there's still some of that
hit and misdimension with like a Bouzellis, whereas these guys,
it's just like they're not worth taking in the top ten.
But if I'm pick somewhere in the teams, like, just
give me these guys, because I really think that their
games are going to translate to them being productive players.

(01:19:06):
For the overhyped part of this, to me, there's a
pretty clear choice in its Resache who continues to be
mocked number one overall as Logan celebrates. I just really
don't get it. And I totally understand that this is
a weak draft and that the standard is significantly lower
for number one prospects than it's been in recent years.

(01:19:28):
But even within the scope of that, I just think
there's dudes who have traits who pop more like I
significantly prefer Sar. I think his defensive tools and at
least the offensive upside, like the combination of that is
much more conducive to him having a star level impact
than resaw Sche. Basically, the bid with Resache is he's tall,

(01:19:49):
he's a pretty good shooter. He shot the ball very
well for a year, but he's still only seventy percent
from the line. His mechanics aren't the prettiest, like he
was over forty percent from deep and at that size
that is appealing, But he's an okay ball handler. It's
not very functional though, because of his lack of quickness.
He really doesn't give you much self created offense whatsoever.
He's got a good size and mobility. Are we really

(01:20:11):
talking about a sort of relatively high floor three and
D wing but like not even super high floor in
my opinion, because there's still some unknowns about his game
going number one overall, I'm just not there with Risache.

Speaker 3 (01:20:25):
Yeah, I completely agree with with Rissache. I don't know
why he's listed as a number one pick right now
on my big board.

Speaker 1 (01:20:33):
I'm still working through order.

Speaker 3 (01:20:35):
Hierarchy and you know, sorting out second round guys. Rissa
Sche is like fifteen or sixteen to me, And Wow,
it's not that I don't hate him as a prospect,
but when I look at guys, I would rather have
guys that are more multifaceted in their impact and impact
the game in different areas and do a lot of
things well than just having one star trade.

Speaker 1 (01:20:56):
Now that one star trade can overwhelmingly, you know, take
you up a notch if you're great at it. But
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:21:01):
I don't feel that way about Risache as a shooter,
and if he is that I kind of look at
him as a one dimensional guy. I don't know if
Versache is ever gonna be a positive defensively. I worry
about him in terms of defensive awareness. I worry about
his slight frame and guy's completely driving through him. He's
not a great athlete either. I worry about him in
terms of what he brings you offensively. Outside of his shot, Carson,

(01:21:24):
forty four percent of his shots this year came from
behind the arc. This is a guy that doesn't create
a lot of downhill pressure. He struggles to finish through
contact at the rim, like really struggles.

Speaker 1 (01:21:34):
He's just one dimensional.

Speaker 3 (01:21:36):
And I don't like putting all of my chips in
on a guy who has one good trait and he's
very young. He is eighteen years old, so maybe he's
gonna grow and he's got this crazy upside that I
just don't see right now, and maybe he's gonna improve.
To me that the guys who are overhyped are him
in Topitch and I have Topicic in him neck and neck,

(01:21:59):
and it's same thing with ris A. It's about the
one trait. I do want to be clear about something.
I think Topich the guy I would comp him to
in terms of NBA prospects is Josh Giddy, and I
want to be clear about something. With the Giddy comp
I think Topiic has better touch. I think Topich is
better at creating downhill pressure, and he's a good passer.
I honestly I prefer Topich as a guy who runs

(01:22:22):
your bench unit. I think he's a backup point guard immediately.
But the thing with Topic is about all these primary
ball handlers that aren't lead scorers.

Speaker 1 (01:22:33):
And I just why.

Speaker 3 (01:22:34):
Would I put the ball in the hands and have
a guy run my offense who isn't a great scorer.
And I don't know if I ever see that great
scoring ability.

Speaker 1 (01:22:42):
Come with Topic.

Speaker 3 (01:22:43):
So both of those guys are like not mid lottery,
mid first round to me, and I don't really understand
why they're both being mocked, you know, a top five guys.

Speaker 2 (01:22:55):
I think that, first of all, that's pretty low on
Rische fifteen sixteen is low. I would view him probably
more in like that end of the top ten range.
But I think we're mostly aligned on that topicch I
think you're underselling. I don't like the giddy comp. I
can see where you're coming from in terms of the
ks in terms of archetype, you know, but the archetype's different. Like,

(01:23:19):
he is a significantly better downhill driver. He's shifty, he's
not afraid of physicality, he's a very efficient below the
rim finish. He's got good body control, Like there's just
much more ability from him to actually stress the defense.
Now I'm worried about the lack of a consistent shot.
I'm worried about the unproven intermediate touch. Those are valid

(01:23:43):
concerns to raise because if he doesn't improve there, then
it's like, Yeah, this guy isn't gonna be a really
good lead creator. He has to get better. But the
problem with Giddy, as much as his three point shot,
is his complete lack of scoring inside the arc. And
that's where I think Topicch is significantly better. So I'm
higher on him. But I think Sar is a pretty
clear number one. And I think that some people say Topics,

(01:24:05):
some people say Risa se some people maybe would say Boozalis.
I would take sorrow over all of them. Okay, we
have another offseason question. Shane asks what moves can the
Heat realistically make this offseason to get significantly better? Is
it even possible for them to go into next season
as a genuine contender to come out of the East.
I need help.

Speaker 3 (01:24:24):
They gotta make a big move in. What sucks about that, too,
is you would have to sacrifice some of your young
wing talent.

Speaker 1 (01:24:29):
I think to get it. I think you have to
give up Yovic. You got to give up Jim Hawkes.
You're probably giving up.

Speaker 3 (01:24:35):
Hero And I'm not saying all three of those guys
in the same deal, but you're likely giving up two
of the three along with another pick because you're not
gonna get rid of your core. If you're gonna run
it back, it's gonna be Jimmy Bamm and a third
offensive creator.

Speaker 1 (01:24:46):
And that's what I think you need. You need another
high end offensive creator.

Speaker 3 (01:24:50):
Think about how last year the big rumor was Damian
Lillard to Miami, right he was gonna be the guy
that took him over the top. You need some kind
of lead scoring guard. I wrote down four names that
I think are relatively available. Donovan Mitchell, Trey Young, Zach Levine,
Dejonte Murray, maybe Darius Garland and like, those are like

(01:25:10):
the only guys that I can really see Miami acquiring.
Trey Young and Mitchell are honestly probably too high end.

Speaker 1 (01:25:18):
I don't know if they have the capital to go
and get those guys. So I think you're looking at Levine,
Murray or like Garland, and I don't really know how
much those guys move the needle for me, because your
goal isn't to you know, just be considered a legitimate contender.
You have to leap frog New York. You have to
leap frog Philadelphia, you have to leap prog Boston, you

(01:25:38):
have to leap frog I don't know, maybe you would
still have Milwaukee over Miami at this point.

Speaker 3 (01:25:44):
So it's just a hard sell for me to think
that this team is legitimately gonna take up another notch.
And then you add an added concern that is Jimmy
gonna be healthy. You know, I love Jimmy Butler as
much as the next guy.

Speaker 1 (01:25:55):
I had Jimmy very.

Speaker 3 (01:25:57):
High on my players that I want, but I worry
about him health wise. Moving forward now, I think when
you have two players the caliber of Jimmy and Bam,
I think you go in on the timeline that you
have now and try to win games.

Speaker 1 (01:26:08):
But I just don't know if.

Speaker 3 (01:26:11):
Like Levine or Murray or Garland really move the needle
for me, like you need a superstar, offensive kind of player,
and I don't know if Miami has the kind of
capital needed to go out and acquire an asset like that.

Speaker 2 (01:26:24):
What's very intriguing about Levine to me is the opportunity
to buy low, because boy, could you buy low on
Zach Levine right now? Like coming off of an injury
at his age, with his contract, I do still think offensively,
he has the opportunity to be a tremendously impactful player.
He is one of the best pure shooters in the league.
He is a really explosive athlete. He's a relatively efficient

(01:26:45):
on ball creator, and Miami absolutely needs more pop. So
that's where it's like, you have the opportunity with him
to add him without having to give all your assets,
Because if you could get Donovan Mitchell, if everything that
you have is enough, and we're talking like here Hawkes
Jovich and the twenty twenty nine first, maybe another pickswap
in there, which I don't think would be a bad

(01:27:06):
deal at all for Cleveland. We don't know if he'll
become available. But then it's like you've decimated your depth
with Levine. I think you're looking more at like maybe
just hero and a first Like I think the asking
price is obviously significantly lower, but you have two clear needs.
You need another offensive star in the backcourt. Ideally you

(01:27:28):
need more punch there, and then you need more size.
So I would lean towards going in on trying to
add an actual star, even if you don't love the value,
even if it's not the perfect fit, just because I
think you need that to have a legitimate contending ceiling.
If you don't do that, or maybe even if you
can buy low in addition to that, use your remaining

(01:27:50):
assets to get a big, versatile wing. I'll say it.
He's gonna be one of my favorite targets for a
number of teams this offseason. But Denny of Dia, Man,
if you could add a any of Dia, you want
that size, you want that offensive skill, you want that
defensive versatility. I think that that is a pretty reasonable
goal to try to accomplish, and I think that would

(01:28:10):
make you significantly better as a basketball team. So the
Heat don't have a wealth of assets, but because Hawkes
was so good, because Jovic really progressed this year, like
I do think that they have more intriguing packages than
they did this past offseason that they can put together
and they're gonna continue to go all in. I don't
think it is within the organizational DNA here to rebuild.

(01:28:31):
I think when you have Jimmy and Bam and when
you're already out a couple first over the next few
years like they are, I just expect them to continue
to commit to this core, and I'm not opposed to
that because Jimmy and Bam is a really good foundation.
It won't be for that much longer, so you do
need to be aggressive. Okay, question from Titus Beard. Hey, guys,
I love your content. You guys are making it easy
to watch the playoffs. Thanks Titus, appreciate that. Speaking of

(01:28:53):
the playoffs, how do you feel about a one to
sixteen playoff bracket? All teams play each other three times
a year. Just think it could eliminate some of the
issues with week conferences by playing.

Speaker 1 (01:29:02):
Yeah, thank you for the kind words, Titus. I don't
hate them.

Speaker 2 (01:29:05):
Oh, by the way, nobody is actually saying these compliments.
I'm adding them. Oh, well, thank you, that's what they're
probably thinking.

Speaker 1 (01:29:11):
Thank you, Carson. I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:29:12):
Man, You're welcome.

Speaker 1 (01:29:14):
I don't hate the idea logistically in terms of the
imbalance and talent that we have between the two conferences.
The only issue that I have with this is.

Speaker 3 (01:29:24):
It's really similar to the dissolution of like the PAC
twelve or these college conferences. I wonder if you're undermining
like the rivalry aspect of these games that we get
in the playoffs. Like the fact that we got Clippers
and MAVs again, right, that is just.

Speaker 1 (01:29:39):
It's must watch. There's actual beef on the table.

Speaker 3 (01:29:42):
I want to watch because I want to watch Luca
jawjack with these guys and go at them. And you know,
I just think you're losing some of that. But the
West is stupid talented, way more talented in the Eastern Conference.
And I understand like the frustration of lower teams out West.

Speaker 1 (01:29:59):
And you know, you've got like the Bulls making the
play in and it's like, bro, the Chicago Bulls or
a joke basketball team, and the fact that they are
in the playoffs at all in the conversation, and that
you've got the Pelicans, you know, scrounging for a playoff spot. Like,
I think those two teams are in different not completely
different tiers. But the Pelicans are just so much better,

(01:30:20):
right with a healthy Zion Williamson.

Speaker 2 (01:30:22):
And so.

Speaker 1 (01:30:23):
I could hear an argument if that was your argument.

Speaker 3 (01:30:26):
But I like the fact that we have consistent rivalries
and that we could get you know, we can get
Clippers maps again, we can get Warriors Kings in the
first round. We can get these battles year after year
that just make the playoffs feel like they mean a
little more, Right Like New York Philly. Right if I'm
getting New York Phoenix in the first round because it's
a one to sixteen playoff bracket, I don't really feel

(01:30:48):
the gravity of the matchup the way I do. That
is just cutthroat between New York and Philly, And so
that's where I would push back a little bit at
this idea.

Speaker 2 (01:30:58):
I do think we definitely want to preserve rivalries, so
I wouldn't want to abolish conferences for that reason. Also,
I just think logistically, everybody playing everybody three times a year,
travel wise, it's more difficult than you staying primarily within
your state and your region playing those teams four times
a year. Also, I'm pro playing. I wouldn't want to

(01:31:18):
get rid of that. I absolutely see the case that
there is a big disparity between the two conferences right now,
and it doesn't really look like that's going to change,
just because of how much young talent is concentrated in
the West and how much free agents have been going
to the West, and just some of the best organizations
in the league right now, some of the best infrastructure
is in the West. I get all of that, and

(01:31:39):
the East playoffs this year were obviously way worse than
the West, So I understand the impetus to ask this question.
But we want to preserve rivalries. I think we want
to preserve the play in and that was some of
the most fun basketball of the year. Dude, what we
saw on the play in. Like out West, the stakes
are so high. You're seeing really good basketball teams play

(01:31:59):
each other these do or die scenarios. I think we
keep things as they are, but we'll see maybe in
another half decade, Like the East just hasn't gotten any
better and then it's frustrating. But the other thing is
the East was so affected by injuries this year. I
think that that put an extra damper on their postseason.
All right, question from Mikey Ryan, what's up? Boys been

(01:32:20):
watching since midway this season and you two have really
made basketball a lot more enjoyable for me to watch. Again,
he didn't say that. I added that do you actually
buy the if you draft Bronni you get LBJ sweepstakes
or is it just some media agenda. I personally don't
think LBJ is going anywhere, but I anticipate the Lakers
signing him to their summer league team and so on.
That's Bronni he's referring to.

Speaker 3 (01:32:40):
Yeah, I don't really buy into the draft Bronnie and
get Lebron sweepstakes. I think that's more of a media
ploy or ploy by Lebron to get Bronni drafted. You know,
a little extra incentive, you know, a little icing on
the cake.

Speaker 1 (01:32:52):
So to speak.

Speaker 3 (01:32:53):
But I do buy into the Lakers actually drafting him.

Speaker 1 (01:32:57):
This is something kind.

Speaker 3 (01:32:58):
Of intertwined with the Lakers current head coaching search where
I mean, I'm not gonna dress it up. I think
Lebron James runs the Los Angeles Lakers. He was the
driving He's Jackie Moon at this point. That is what
Lebron James is to the Los Angeles Lakers. He pulled
the trigger on acquiring Russell Westbrook when Polenka needed to

(01:33:19):
put his foot down and say, no, Lebron, we cannot
give this up to go get an aging guy who
doesn't fit alongside you and Anthony Davis. What Lebron wants
Lebron is going to get in Los Angeles. And that
is an issue that I have with the dynamic between them.
Going out and getting a head coach like JJ Reddick,
because I just worry about them, the power dynamic between
the two, and where does Lebron as head coach start

(01:33:42):
and where does JJ Reddick is, you know, the head
coach in where is the you know, I worry about players.

Speaker 1 (01:33:48):
Legitimately listening to the JJ.

Speaker 3 (01:33:49):
I don't question his basketball acumen whatsoever. I question his
authority as a coach and guys buying into him as
the head coach when basically it's gonna be Lebron and
Ja Reddick co head coaching the basketball team.

Speaker 1 (01:34:02):
That's what it's gonna be, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:34:05):
And so that's where I can definitely buy into the
Lakers drafting Bronni. And I think Bronni has NBA tools.
That's why BE okay with him getting drafted. You know,
the size at the point guard position. I don't think
you're looking at a star. I think to think that
you're getting that out of Bronni as foolish. But I
think Bronni is a backup point guard, a defensive minded

(01:34:25):
guy who makes the right decision. Add some floor spacing,
add some dogs, some rebounding, some athleticism. Yeah, I think
he could be an NBA caliber player, So insummation, I
would buy into the Lakers drafting him. But look, man,
if yeah, the Hornets say, yeah, we're gonna draft Bronni
so we can drag Lebron to Charlotte, that's not happening. No.

Speaker 2 (01:34:50):
I think that Bronni is probably going to end up
in LA. If I were anybody else, I probably wouldn't
take Bronni this year. I think he's a very late
second rounder. But if the Lakers sitting there in the
mid fifties, why wouldn't they take him? Keep Lebron happy?
A significant majority of second round picks don't ever turn
out to be relevant NBA players Anyways, I absolutely do

(01:35:13):
not think that there is a team that can just
draft Bronny and then get Lebron. I think Lebron is
staying in LA. That would be kind of an insane
way for him to view things. If anything, I think
maybe it would be like them holding Bronni out there
as bait and being like, ooh, trade us a first
overpay us so you can get your little son to
come play with you. And even that, I don't know
if it's super likely Bronni as a prospect. There's always

(01:35:39):
interesting conversations surrounding him, because there was the expectation just
because he's Lebron's son, and also he had a very
good high school career, but because of the cachet that
comes with his name, like a lot of people thought
this dude's gonna be a star and then he's very
clearly not that, and then a lot of people were
just like, this guy outright sucks. I think he's a
fringe NBA guy. I think his viability really swings on

(01:35:59):
his shot. Combining his senior year at Sierra Canyon with
his freshman year at USC shot thirty percent from deep,
forty percent on two point jumpers, twenty one percent on
runners under, sixty eight percent from the line at USC.
So that is a pretty complete profile of a below
average shooter, and his mechanics are good, but I think
him becoming an above average shooter would take surreal work.

(01:36:22):
And he's a good defender only six to one, but
he does have the six to seven wingspan, really solid frame.
He's a good athlete, plays a lot of effort in
pride on that end, and very clearly wants to excel there.
That's more than something he's comfortable with. Being known for,
which I think is really good, and he's a good
decision maker. Offensively, he's a good connective passer, but he

(01:36:43):
is six to one, he's not very comfortable handling, he's
not a super quick downhill athlete, and so far he
has been a poor shooter. So that's not really a
great profile for an NBA guard. To me, you're drafting
a low ceiling project, not generally two things that you
want to hear together. Who just averaged five a night
on forty seven percent true shooting for a bad USC team.

(01:37:05):
So the talk of him going in the first round
just as like some sort of leverage play, to me,
is crazy. I don't care what you think of this draft.
He's not close to a first round prospect. Would the
Wakers take him in the mid fifties, Yes, and I
wouldn't have a problem with that, Okay. Zenna Knight asks
if you were the Sixers front office and you had
to keep the core of embiid in, Maxie, what moves

(01:37:27):
would you make and why?

Speaker 1 (01:37:29):
Well, yes, one hundred percent, I'm keeping the core together.
I think they work way too well together, Maxie. I
think is steadily ascending.

Speaker 3 (01:37:37):
Like I think the more responsibility you give this guy,
like I think he's gonna even get better next year.
He has already gotten so much better, so much more
comfortable as a ball handler out of pick and roll.

Speaker 1 (01:37:47):
And as many gripes as I have.

Speaker 3 (01:37:49):
With Embiid and his health, you're not going to just
throw away a guy who could be a top five
player in basketball, could be the best player in the
world in a hypothetical playoff runer, and you're just not
sacrificing this. And the big thing is is that this offseason,
Tobias Harris' mammoth contract is finally heading out, and the
Sixers have a surplus and an abundance of cap space

(01:38:10):
to work with. So the guy that I'm targeting is
a guy's a free agent. That would be Paul George.
That's the first guy that I'm looking at where I
think that Paul George can just come in here and
not play a role I don't want to, you know,
paint Paul George's that kind of player at this point
in his career. But you know, he could be your
offensive like number three. He doesn't really have to, you know.
He spots up, attacks, closeouts, sprays the ball, gives you

(01:38:33):
a little bit of you know, he alleviates some of
the pressure of Maxi as a ball handler. It gives
him beat another guy that he can play off of.
And I think you bring back a couple of guys.
If I'm Philadelphia, I'm bringing back Buddy Healed. I'm trying
my best to bring back Kelly Oubrey. I thought he
was great for Philadelphia. You're gonna have to pay him
a little more. But again, Philadelphia does have some cap space.

(01:38:56):
It may be difficult to bring all of these guys in.
But I would try to bring back Uberre, I'd try
to bring back Buddy Heal, and I would try my
damn this to.

Speaker 1 (01:39:04):
Bring in Paul George, just because I think he works here.

Speaker 3 (01:39:07):
Man, you get a high end wing defender, a great shooter,
and a guy who, at this stage in his career
doesn't have to play that number two role, which I
don't know if he suited to do anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:39:15):
He could play the number three fiddle.

Speaker 3 (01:39:17):
Behind Embiid, Maxie, and I think they all really compliment
each other really well. Or you're a little injury prone
with Embiid and Paul George, Yeah, maybe a little bit,
But I think he is still one hell of a
basketball player. Having the luxury of him playing that number
three role would be great. And trust me, he's not
gonna disappear like a ghost the way Tobias Harris did

(01:39:40):
on a playoff stage. I think Paul George is gonna
give you a little more and if you can't get PG,
just more athletic, connecting wings who can either shoot or defend.
Those are the kind of players that I'm trying to
bring in. But Paul George is like the premier version
of that archetype at this point in his career, and
I think would be a great number three for Philadelphia.

Speaker 2 (01:39:59):
I'd be in on PG. Philly has a pretty clean
slate contract wise this offseason, like there's almost nobody on
the books for them, and definitely I would want to
retain some of these role players between uber D Anthony Meltain,
those are guys who I really like. But priority number
one to me would be adding a third star. I'd
be all in on Paul George. I just couldn't really

(01:40:19):
dream of a better third option. As you say, doesn't
have to bear the consistent burden of being your number two.
Is an elite off ballplayer, doesn't have to be creating
consistently with the ball in his hands, but when you
need him to, he can dominate offensively kind of on
any given night. It allows him to commit to the
defensive end. You get a big, versatile wing there. It's
just a great fit playing off the maximb to two

(01:40:40):
man game. I think he'd be insane, and he gives
you the firepower that you need to compete with Boston,
And once you're knocking on that door, I think it's
easier to fill out the remainder of this roster, even
if it means compromising a bit of your depth, because
now you have the star power to go head to
head with them, and that's not something that anybody else
in the East has. The Knicks don't quite have that,

(01:41:02):
the Bucks don't quite have that in terms of having
a legit big three like this. So I understand the age,
I understand the reputation that he has. The guy is
still a top twenty five basketball player on the planet.
He fits really well. I would be in on it
all right, last real question, and then we have some
silly ones. Tommy, Hey, guys new to the show as
of this playoffs really enjoying the content. Thank you. Tommy,

(01:41:24):
I'm a Wolves fan of My question is, how do
you see the front office navigating the salary cap for
the next two to three years. Do you foresee them
trading Cat or Rudy? Are there any moves you'd like
them to make, or do you run the current team
back with some minor bench tweaks.

Speaker 3 (01:41:37):
The issue with making minor bench tweaks is the fact
that you're tied up in so much money next year.
Not only does Edward's contract kicks in forty three million dollars,
Jade McDaniel's twenty million dollar contract is going to kick
in too, so it.

Speaker 1 (01:41:50):
Leaves you.

Speaker 3 (01:41:52):
Strapped for just maneuvering on the margins. I would bring back,
for sure this offseason Kyle Anderson. I just thought he
was great, Like he provides a lot of versatility in
your lineup in terms of what he can do with
ball handling, shot making, small ball five like what he
brings defensively. I would bring back Kyle Anderson. That's probably
my biggest priority and the one big hole that I

(01:42:13):
look at with this team that I would love to
see them address is a real high end perimeter creator
off the bench.

Speaker 1 (01:42:19):
Again, the issue with.

Speaker 3 (01:42:20):
That is finding that guy one and then finding that
guy for cheap. If they are gonna make a big move,
I think it would be trading Karl Anthony Towns, and
we're gonna have to see. Honestly, I think next year
is gonna determine a lot of their moves. I think
they run back this iteration of this team next year,
they bring back Kyle Anderson.

Speaker 1 (01:42:37):
There's not a lot of other moves they can make.

Speaker 3 (01:42:39):
I think the group you've got in this playoffs is
gonna run back next year.

Speaker 1 (01:42:43):
It's really gonna be how they perform.

Speaker 3 (01:42:45):
If Karl Anthony Towns does not play up the standard,
he's the odd man out. The reality of the situation
with Minnesota is you're not moving Rudy Gobert for a
few reasons.

Speaker 1 (01:42:53):
One, the contracts really big.

Speaker 3 (01:42:55):
Two, you gave up a ton of assets and you're
just not nearly gonna get that kind of value you
back for Rudy Gobert. You're gonna be losing value on
the deal that you gave up. And then go Bert
makes your defense great. So if there is somebody who
would be moved, I think it would be Karl Anthony
Towns to get another secondary superstar alongside Ant, and I

(01:43:16):
don't know who that guy is, but to me, you
wouldn't move off of Gobert. You're not gonna move off
of Ant. You're not gonna move off of McDaniels. The
odd man out would be Karl Anthony Towns. So to me,
if I'm going to move off of a player, it
would be Cat. To find another secondary offensive stud that
works alongside Ant.

Speaker 2 (01:43:34):
Yeah, I don't think that happens this offseason. I'm pretty
confident that they'll run it back for next year. You
have the formula to beat Denver within the West, and
that really does matter. I still view them as the
top dog with how things are currently laid out Denver
going into next year. If they can keep KCP so
that's very valuable, and if Ant and Cat play better

(01:43:57):
than they did in the conference finals this year, like
I think you could get through the conference. There's gonna
be a lot of strong teams. But I am not
permanently out on this configuration. Minor tweaks. I would like
to upgrade your bench ball hand the role. If you
could upgrade that Monte Morris spot using your mid level exception,
that'd be great easier, said than done though, and overall,
your roster is very locked in. You have a lot

(01:44:19):
of cap committed to your top seven players already, so
you run it back next year. After that, you make
an assessment, and I think it's more likely that they
trade Cat because of the reasons that you mentioned. Go
Beart is so essential to their defensive foundation and they
just traded so much for him less than two years ago.
But go Beart is gonna be thirty three at the
end of next season, so that's not really great either.

(01:44:40):
And that's to me why Minnesota not getting it done
this year. Losing out on their opportunity after beating Denver
is so hard to stomach because your window may just
not be that long. Like go Beart is currently still
playing as one of the best defensive players on the planet.
Will he be in a couple of years, win that
contract up, once he's taken his player option. Will you

(01:45:02):
want to re sign him at that point? We just
don't know. So An gives you a prolonged window, But
this specific iteration, I think you run back next year
and then you see where you progress from there. I
would not expect any major changes in this offseason, all right,
Logan Aiden asks who are your favorite gooners?

Speaker 1 (01:45:19):
Lamar odom go toed gooner beat it before every basketball game,
the go.

Speaker 2 (01:45:24):
Jesus, well, don't be crass, don't be crass. I got
Flapjack Philly as my number one gooner, followed by Sandbag
and Steve, followed by Lenny Wilkins. The Bronze Age. What
is your favorite type of honey for honey pouring purposes?

Speaker 1 (01:45:38):
The honey I get at the store.

Speaker 2 (01:45:40):
What kind of honey is that?

Speaker 1 (01:45:42):
The honey I get at the store?

Speaker 2 (01:45:46):
Logan likes beat the honey.

Speaker 1 (01:45:47):
You know, honey never expires, men, it never goes bad.

Speaker 2 (01:45:51):
Yeah, because bees are eternal. You and I have only
been here for what twenty two years? Bees have been
here forever, and bees will be here forever. B I
like honey? What sucks? Denier better singer? Logan or Carson?

Speaker 1 (01:46:06):
Sure, Carson Man, Like we're actually singing? I can maybe?
I don't know. Dude, Dude, your resume is actually stagging up.
Bro Like you've got now the rap.

Speaker 3 (01:46:16):
Battle Beefs, you got a musical, You've got the Greg
Odin rap. Frankly, I'm getting cooked. My resume just doesn't stack.

Speaker 2 (01:46:25):
Up music is in the heart and it is in
the soul?

Speaker 1 (01:46:29):
Is it not so?

Speaker 2 (01:46:29):
At the end of the day, comparison is the thief
of joy. It's not about the music we make on
our own. It's about the music we can make together
with our mouths, with our bodies, et cetera, et cetera.
All right, last question this one. I really like Coop
the snoop. Who's the worst NBA player? You would interview
Jordan Poole. I just like to talk to Jordan Poole. Really,
that's the worst. If somebody worse than Jordan Poole said, Hey,

(01:46:53):
I want to come on a NERD sash, I want
to talk to you guys, you would say, no, fuck you,
Sam Hauser, wish.

Speaker 1 (01:47:00):
Sam, how's you gonna talk to me about?

Speaker 2 (01:47:02):
Maybe the Boston Celtics winning the title? Maybe you could
learn about Jason Tatum's idiosyncrasies, all the little things that
he does. Where he likes to have his cereal in
the morning, does he shower, does he take bats? Does
he go to a local river and just jump in
the water.

Speaker 3 (01:47:21):
If Tony Bradley wanted to come onto NERD says, would
you talk to Tony Bradley.

Speaker 2 (01:47:27):
Tony Bradley, unc legend, I don't know. Let's throw some
names out there. To MIAs Kata wants to come on the.

Speaker 1 (01:47:34):
Show, Hell yeah, man, Kata's a beast. Kat is actually
a good player.

Speaker 2 (01:47:39):
You are one funny guy. Logan, you say hell no.
To Sam Houser, you say hell yeah, and amyas Kata
Kata's all right, man? Well okay, I think Celtics are
too relevant. What about Sissoko?

Speaker 1 (01:47:52):
Yeah? I talked to What's said? One dude from Turkey?
I cannot pronounce his name. He plays for on He's got.

Speaker 2 (01:47:59):
His for the bulls. Yes, yeah, would you talk to him?
What's it's like? But it's beats him.

Speaker 1 (01:48:08):
If I could figure out how to pronounce his name,
I would talk to him.

Speaker 2 (01:48:10):
Yes, I think he's got an interesting story.

Speaker 1 (01:48:13):
Would you talk to Grant Williams? If Grant Williams wanted
to come on the.

Speaker 2 (01:48:16):
Show, absolutely, would you not think about the things you
could say to him? We could do a forty five
minute interview, all polite and clean at then at the
end you could call him the micheline man. You can
call him a big old tub of lard. Say your
teams get better when they move off of you, fat boy.

Speaker 1 (01:48:36):
I'm gonna make them. I'm gonna make both of them.

Speaker 2 (01:48:38):
Instead of Batman, you could call him fat.

Speaker 1 (01:48:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:48:42):
I would one hundred percent interview Grantwell, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:48:44):
If he dressed up as Batman, I would actually be down.

Speaker 2 (01:48:47):
Well, I don't know that we can stipulate that. I
guess we'd have to see what he's comfortable with.

Speaker 1 (01:48:52):
Uh. Would you talk to georgis Niang?

Speaker 2 (01:48:56):
Yes, I would want to know how he feels about
the way that people talk about his physique as an
NBA player, People saying things like he's built like a minivan.
They say that on broadcasts. Bro Ryan Roco is just
like baiting Richard Jefferson the whole time into calling him
a rotund. I would want to know how he feels
about that. Also, his name is George, but it's spelled

(01:49:18):
with an S at the end. That's kind of weird.

Speaker 1 (01:49:20):
He's kind of strange.

Speaker 2 (01:49:21):
So yes, I would talk to him. Look, guys, we
haven't talked to any NBA players on this show yet,
but just know that when the moment comes, you're gonna
see this big Jay journalism degree coming into use. I'm
gonna be asking incisive questions I'm gonna be learning about
these people's relationships with their mothers. If they're international players,
I'm gonna be talking to them about childhood sports that

(01:49:42):
they played that only exist in their country. I'm gonna
be learning what sort of swimsuits do they like to wear?
Did they prefer French onion soup or do they prefer
tomato soup? When was the last time that they really
felt truly madly in love? And are they still in
pain from that? Are they still in a state of
joy after that? A lot of good questions to be

(01:50:04):
asked to these guys. I'm gonna get to the bottom
of it.

Speaker 1 (01:50:07):
I think we should like Grant Williams on the show.

Speaker 2 (01:50:09):
What's their favorite Miley Cyrus song? Grant Williams probably the
party in the USA?

Speaker 1 (01:50:14):
If I di guess, Grant? Who's your favorite gooner?

Speaker 2 (01:50:17):
Grant? Who is your favorite gooner? Who's your favorite Edgemax?
Or have you been joking recently?

Speaker 1 (01:50:23):
And why? Is the answer to all of those questions?

Speaker 2 (01:50:25):
Nas Reed, nas Reed, I'll tell you who we'd have
on the podcast, Logan nas Reed, nas Reed, nas Reed.

Speaker 1 (01:50:34):
Would you have Rudy Gay on the pod?

Speaker 2 (01:50:36):
Yes, Rudy Gay is a top one hundred scored NBA history.
Who do you think we are?

Speaker 1 (01:50:41):
Do you actually think Rudy Gay's a top one hundred?

Speaker 2 (01:50:43):
No, no, no, no, I am saying objectively he is top
one hundred in points scored in the history of basketball.

Speaker 1 (01:50:50):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (01:50:50):
Really yeah, He's a bucket from Toronto to sack Town,
to Memphis and back down. Rudy Gay has gotten buckets
his whole career.

Speaker 1 (01:50:59):
And that proves that Carson is the better musician. Man.

Speaker 2 (01:51:03):
He guys, I'm ready for There's a lot of news
named Rudy in NBA history. What's up with that? Something
to consider? All right, guys, appreciate all your questions. Hope
you enjoyed, are answering them? Hope you're excited for the
NBA Finals. If you are, well, good, so are we.
We're going to be back tomorrow night talking about it.

(01:51:25):
React into the game live, so stay tuned in for that.
Check out everything across our YouTube channel, all of our
full shows, all the video essays that we do. Listen
to the pod across audio platforms. You can follow us
across social TikTok, Instagram at nerd, sash, Twitter at nerd
underscore sesh, to see clips from the show, to see
our trivia content which is always oh so much fun,

(01:51:45):
oodles and noodles of fun. And you can check out
our merch at the Volume dot com. You can also
join our discord. The link to that is at the
link tree across our social media bios. So that as
always appreciates you guys. I've been Carson Braber

Speaker 1 (01:51:58):
I have been Logan Camden and this was a very
sch

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