June 12, 2024 • 47 mins
In this Best of The Herd, Colin reflects on the incredible life and legacy of Jerry West. Plus, Colin wants to know what is going on in New York with the Jets in mandatory minicamp but no quarterback Aaron Rodgers to be found. Colin thinks Rodgers comes off differently than other recent quarterbacks who relocated after a long stay with their drafted team. Also, Colin explores why women's basketball in the United States can't get out of its own way. Later, Colin wonders if the Dallas Mavericks—down 2-0—can make this NBA Finals competitive against the Kristaps Porzingis-less Boston Celtics. Finally, FOX Sports NBA analyst Ric Bucher sits down with Colin to share his thoughts on the desperate Mavericks, UConn coach Dan Hurley spurning the Lakers (and what the Lakers do next in their coaching search), and the late Jerry West.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Here we go. It is a Wednesday. We are live
in Los Angeles. It is the Hurt wherever you may be,
however you may be listening. Thanks for making us part
of your day on a sad day. A somber tone
to start our show for the first five or six minutes.
The greatest basketball executive of all time, Jerry West, has
(00:48):
passed away an incredible, almost singular career. Jmax joining me
as well Rick yeukernin now to talk about this. It's
hard to he had so many successes. He was almost
a basketball whisper, even to the end in the last
seven eight years. If you had a basketball dilemma, called
Jerry West, and that's what we start our show today.
(01:10):
He was so many things. He was an all time
great player who became the logo. You don't just make
any player the logo. No other player in our major
sports had ever been considered to be the logo. He
was a generationally unique eighties, nineties, two thousands. He was
(01:32):
a respected basketball voice. He was the architect of three dynasties.
And he was a relentless personality. You've seen that in
the documentary, You've read that in books, because he understood
what greatness looked like and he was not willing to
sacrifice anything to get there. He also had a well
documented tough bordering on brutal childhood, and it always felt
(01:55):
like along the way he was a bit tortured. Even
the way the Lakers relationship ended, it wasn't perfect. Jerry
was almost singular in his greatness. He was arguably the
first great guard in the NBA, mister Clutch. He very
quickly established himself as almost a Spengali, a guru of
(02:15):
basketball talent. Yes, you know about Shaq and Kobe, and
you know about Kareem and Magic, but do you realize
how big he was in the Warriors dynasty as he aged.
I always say you can tell a lot about a
man when he goes past perhaps his prime years. You
look at him, you listen to him. Has he been
(02:38):
willing to acknowledge issues, grow, evolve? That was Jerry West.
He was the one that told them move off Monte Ellis,
embrace Steph Curry and go get Andrew Boget. You need size.
He was the one that told them, I will resign
if you move off Klaye. Thompson for Kevin Love, and
at the time Kevin Love was the better player. He
(03:00):
was the one that whispered in Kd's ear, you'll get
better shots there than you do in Oklahoma City. The
architect of three dynasties and arguably, outside of the Bulls,
the three best dynasties ever. He knew basketball. He loved basketball.
He was great at basketball. The best way I could
(03:22):
describe Jerry West as a guard and as an executive,
he didn't miss much. Here's Jerry on our show years
ago as the greatest executive talking about probably the greatest player,
Michael Jordan.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
If you watched him go anywhere, he was like the
pie fighter. You could not keep people away from him.
He just had that incredible charisma. But when he played,
every night he played, he was not going to take
a night at all. I love Michael Jordan. I absolutely
love Michael Jeordan. He just he's the best. He's the
(04:02):
best athlete I've ever seen in basketball. People are going
to make comparisons. But I wonder today, with the rules
having changed today, you can't handcheck, you can't touch anyone,
you can walk all over the place, you can carry
the basketball all over the place. And this is the
evolution of the game. If he could have added that
to his game, my goodness, what would we see today?
Speaker 1 (04:26):
It tells you a lot about Jerry West is that
the greatest current players, his contemporaries, his peers, all generations.
When Jerry walked into a room, they stopped talking and
they listened. It was sometimes combative with the Lakers. There's
(04:46):
a lot of egos, a lot of brain power, a
lot of greatness in Los Angeles, and it didn't end
well with the Lakers. But Jerry has to be seen
as almost singularly a unique all time player and executive.
Rest in peace to mister clutch the logo all Right.
Things a bit bumpy in New York with the Jets,
(05:10):
so Aaron Rodgers didn't show up for day one of
Mini Camp. Now, through the years, I've said, and I
believe this, there's too much football practice. Sean McVeigh came
to the Rams with a different sensibility and said, let's
lighten up practice and let's not play any of our
starters in the preseason. People scoffed, rolled their eyes. They
(05:34):
won't be ready for the opener they started the year eight. No,
it doesn't bother me that much that Aaron Rodgers missed
a day of mini camp, although Diana Russini says reporter,
he now will miss the entire camp. Okay, So why
(05:54):
was it so clunky when his head coach Robert Salla
went to the podium of couple of days ago to
talk about his absence on day one.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
Aaron and I spoke before otia started. He's been very
good in communication. He's been here the entire time. It's
an excuse, but he had an event that was very
important to him, which he communicated him an event.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
He's missing the entire camp? Is it jury duty? Is
it a sales conference? Coachella still going on? Events don't
last a week, So that's real fuzzy. And also, why
did Robert Sala have to say verbally? He could have
kept it to himself that it was an unexcused absence.
(06:48):
My guess is the power dynamic with Aaron Rodgers has
always been a little off. So Sala wants to make
it clear he runs the team and not Aaron. But
it felt a little past aggressive and like the scolding teacher.
But this is what happens when you give a prickly
rich set in his ways, passive aggressive quarterback coming to
(07:14):
save the franchise, and you put him with a defensive
coach on the hot seat with an eleven and twenty
three record before Aaron got there, What you get is
a weird power dynamic. Even as great as Brady was,
Belichick ran the show and Tom knewittt Even as great
(07:35):
as Mahomes is, Andy Reid runs the show, moves off
of Tyreek Hill, and Mahomes knows it. I could argue
the rudderless ship known as the New York Jets need
stronger management, not less intensity and less power and less leverage.
So Sler really has his hands tied. But they've been
(07:58):
tied from day one. From the very outset, the power
dynamic here has been off. It's why I didn't buy
him last year. I think they'll be good this year,
but I don't consider him a super Bowl team too
much of a perpetual weird odd mess. An uneven franchise
that threw a Hail Mary to get Aaron let him
pick the OC who wouldn't have gotten a job as
(08:20):
an OC anywhere else in the league, had him bring
in Randall Cobb and Alan Lazard, overpaying for Lazard. Cobb
is no longer really a roster player, though he had
a nice career. It's all about the power dynamic Sala.
When Aaron landed was an unproven, losing record defensive coach
(08:40):
who had no momentum with an impulsive owner a new GM,
you thought this was gonna work. Aaron in Green Bay
never liked it that he didn't have as much control
as he felt he deserved. Brady never got caught up
in that. He didn't care to win trophies. So part
(09:02):
of Aaron's personality has always been I want to say
I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do. So none of
this is a surprise. The quarterback, the head coach, the GM.
It just feels odd. The power dynamic is off. You
see this often in the NBA, where the star runs
(09:25):
through coaches, that's a basketball culture thing. It's not a
football culture thing, except apparently in New York. But hybs
an event. I was told last night from a source,
I trust Aaron's on vacation and it's overseas. I'm also
told you'll learn about where he's at tomorrow. Don't want
(09:49):
to burn my source. I'm told you'll learn about it tomorrow.
Maybe he is at an event. Can't believe there's something
overseas that would take seven, eight, nine days. Again, maybe
they have a music festival. But the point is, don't
be surprised by this. This is sort of what you
would expect. Impulsive owner, new GM coach with a losing record,
(10:14):
prickly older at times, arrogant, disconnected quarterback in New York
City with a pretty relentless and inarguably massive press corps.
This is what you get j Mac from missing Day
one to missing Mini Camp. I would imagine as somebody
(10:35):
on this show that's a Jets fan. It didn't sit
terribly well with you.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Notck great.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
Obviously, if you were in Europe, somebody would see him.
If you were international, somebody would see him. I wonder, Colin,
did he get another darkness retreat on the books, and
that's why there's been no reports. Nobody's seen him anywhere.
The treehouse that he goes into for the Darkness retreat
just opened up.
Speaker 6 (10:55):
And hey, this is your time.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
You paid for it. You got to go.
Speaker 6 (10:57):
I don't know that counts as an event, right.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Well, I was told he's overseas, and I was told
tomorrow people will find out where he was overseas. Now
is he still there? Did he come back to the country.
But it's just it's did Saula have to say unexcused absence?
Don't you just keep that to yourself? Like, isn't that
just poking Aaron? Listen if once you get Aaron in
(11:22):
the door and you know he can be sensitive, it's
like Kevin Durant, you know when I poke him in
the ribs. Like part of inheriting Aaron is okay. When
you're the Jets, you sit down before Aaron gets there
and you're like, yep, he's talented, he's probably past his prime,
he's going to be expensive. He can take us to
a different place. You got to coddle him a little.
(11:45):
That's kind of Aaron's You kind of know that with
Aaron you got to coddle him a little. You got
to give him the guys he wants. That's just part
of the game with Aaron. But I think going up
and saying it's unexcused and then you have to say
he's at an event. Well, now that puts pressure on.
People are gonna ask Aaron about what's the event. What
if Aaron doesn't want to talk about the event. It's
(12:06):
just odd to me. It's more noise than you need.
Speaker 5 (12:09):
Unless, of course, he's embracing the attention, wants the attention,
wants everybody talking about him, because we know he's one
of those kind of guys.
Speaker 6 (12:16):
You gotta be talking about me all the time.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
I'm Aaron Rodgers, So being skipping out on camp good
way to get people talking.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
About you, huh. I don't know, It's just that, you
know what I've said before, Aaron's great content. I mean,
he's given me probably six to eight weeks of content
just on him. It doesn't matter where he goes.
Speaker 5 (12:36):
Could he give six to eight wins like before Halloween?
Speaker 6 (12:39):
That'd be nice, that felt personal.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
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Speaker 6 (12:51):
So I was thinking about this.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Aaron Rodgers, according to Diana Russini, not only miss day
one a mini camp, He's gonna miss all of it
for an event which we're not sure what it is,
but how many week long events are there? Be that
as it may. Aaron falls into a group of older
quarterbacks finding a new team, but his feels different the
(13:14):
other guys. The other older quarterbacks that went to a
team felt sort of grateful and they were hyper focused,
all in. I mean, Russell Wilson didn't work, but he
was all in, right, I mean, Peyton Manning goes to Denver,
he had four neck surgeries. He was grateful for a
second opportunity and was phenomenal and was all in, even
(13:35):
though physically he wasn't his best. When Brady went to Tampa,
he was doing illegal practices at Jesuit High School that
a local helicopter news vehicle discovered. He was all in.
Matt Stafford went to the Rams, so grateful finally having
a franchise that was well run and mcveigh's brilliance all in.
(13:57):
Aaron in New York has felt a little different to like, Hey,
You're lucky to have me. I get Hackett, Alan Lazard
and Cobb made demands. It's one thing when Brady said,
give me Gronk still a great player. It's another if
you're taking players who you forced them to hire that
didn't have really the ability to be hired in the market.
(14:19):
Nathaniel Hackett or really weren't NFL players Randall Cobb or
you overpay for number three receivers or four receivers Alan Lazard.
I'm okay Brady asking for Gronk or Leonard Fernett. I
get that, but from the beginning it hasn't been much gratitude.
(14:40):
It's your lucky to have me, and I would argue
or at least ask you to entertain. The thought is
that Aaron's never really been in terms of football. Maybe
he is in life, but in football he's never come
off as grateful. He was pissed at the NFL coming
into the league because of where he was drafted. He dropped.
He was not happy having to sit behind Rogers for
(15:02):
three years, very quickly with Mike McCarthy, didn't appreciate his coaching,
even though McCarthy, to his credit, Green Van Dallas averages
about ten to eleven, twelve wins a season, by the way,
unhappy with one of the best front offices in the
NFL in the last twenty years, the Green Bay Packers
and could not form a relationship. Was not grateful for
(15:23):
Davonte Adams. I mean Brady's like best friends with like
his number four receivers, his Chris Hogan's forget Welker's and
Edelman's and Gronks, Brady's buddies with all of them. Aaron
could not sacrifice a little more time for Davonte Adams.
So it feels like Manning in Denver, Stafford in La.
(15:45):
You know Brady in Tampa. There was a level of gratitude,
a relentlessness and all in, let's make this work. No
sacrifices for Aaron. He talks the game, but he's not
walking it. He said this, he said this after the
season ended, and this matters.
Speaker 7 (16:06):
Everything that we do has to have a purpose too.
When you step in the building, there's intentionality with everything
that you do. And it's not a half the time thing.
It's not a sometimes thing, it's not a most of
the time thing. It's an every time thing. If you
want to be a winning organization then to put you
some position to win championships and be competitive. Everything that
you do matters, and that it has nothing to do
(16:29):
with winning needs to get out of the building.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
You know, it sounds like Jordan Peterson, it comes out
of a seminar, but you gotta live it. We got
to get all non football stuff, the bs out of
the building. Well, I'd argue Aaron some BS and he's
not in the building, so maybe it's fitting. But you
can sound like a psychologist, you can sound like a
Ted talk you gotta live it. If you're going to
(16:54):
demand commitment, you got to live like Tom Brady. If
you're going to demand brain power, you got to be
as smart as Peyton Manning. If you're going to demand
arm talent, you got to have Matt Stafford's soup bone.
And then if you're going to demand no more non
football stuff, you can't take mini camp off for an
(17:17):
event and nobody's quite sure what it is and it's unexcused.
That's the BS you were lecturing the franchise on. So
you know, I say what you want about it, I
just don't think it looks very good. So and we'll
keep you updated. I've been told for at least some
of this he was out of the country for at
(17:39):
least some of it. That's what I was told. And
I have no idea what the event. I don't know
what lasts a week, A sales conference, a corporate retreat, Coachella,
Jerry Duty, I don't know what last a week first
star quarterback in the NFL golf tournament, or a weekend.
Speaker 7 (17:53):
Maybe.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
So women's basketball in this kind of Olympic, women's basketball
cannot get out of their own way. So they are
now reeling a little bit not putting Caitlin Clark on
the team, and they cited her inexperience as the reason why. Well, okay,
that's funny because I look this morning, four different times
(18:19):
rookies in the WNBA made the Olympic team Breonna Stewart,
Sylvia foles Kandae Parker, Diana Tarassi. So I'm not buying
the inexperienced thing. I'm also not buying Well, she's not
one of the top twelve players either, is Diana Tarassi.
I'm also not buying that you know her game. It's
(18:43):
being duplicated. They've already got three point shooters. Well, Sabrina
on Nescue one of the best three point shooters on
this women's Olympic team is off to a really rough start,
so you could use her. So just think about it
this way. This is what I'm struck by the whole time.
(19:03):
If I did you, let's reverse it. If you did
me a huge favor, wouldn't I owe you one? You
do me a seismic favor, a life changing favor, I
owe you one. So Caitlin Clark and players complained about
(19:23):
this for years, six twenty seven year our travel second rate.
She got them chartered flights. Singularly, don't you owe something,
you know, besides a box of chocolates? I don't know,
Maybe squeeze her into the Olympic team. I mean, if
(19:43):
I if you got me you were a rich cat,
you were a guy with leverage or a woman with leverage,
and you got me two years of private jet travel upgrades,
I'd probably invite you to the wedding, probably probably do
something for your kids, something substantial. I mean, just in
the favored apartment. She got them the attention they've been
(20:07):
begging for and the private chartered flights they've been lamenting.
You can't do her a solid. You can't squeeze her in.
You've done it four times. You put a rookie on
the Olympic team four different times. And she's certainly in
this three ball era, uniquely skilled. She has the best
(20:30):
range in the league. Her shots don't even look like
WNBA player shots. You're gonna tell me one of your
best three point shooters is having a little bit of
a turbulent start. You can't bring the best range. Yeah,
you also you can't use this excuse either, Well, she's
not good enough. When's the last time the United States
(20:51):
women's A limit basketball team lost a game. You've won
seven straight golds. The margin here is massive. This is
not like tight margins. You're winning the gold. You always
win the gold. So I just think, just on, there's
instead of the pettiness which we see and the body
(21:13):
language and the clear jealousy amongst some w at not all,
but some WNBA players got to grow up a little
bit when somebody does you. This is the way life works.
If somebody does you a solid, two massive solids that
you've complained about for years, you kind of owe them
one a little squeezer into the final spot, a little favor.
(21:40):
I mean, if you and I complained about travel for
two years and somebody got us. You and I fly
to events or remotes, three two year private jet upgrades.
You and I are sitting down figuring what are we
going to do for that person? Something fairly substantial? What
are we going to do for that person?
Speaker 5 (21:58):
So is there an analogy or that the WNBA was
like a garage rock band, right, and they're playing for
neighborhoods and its birthday parties, and then all of a
sudden they've got a chance to add like this amazing singer.
Speaker 6 (22:11):
Nobody gets kicked.
Speaker 5 (22:11):
Out of the band, but you level up and get
this new singer, and it's.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Like, holy cal you're playing, You're playing, You're playing stadium.
Speaker 5 (22:18):
You're all those unplayed stadiums. Are you going to be
resentful of that person or extremely happy that your everything
you've got is elevated? You're now getting side deals because
of the promotion that this new star has added to
your band.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Caitln Clark?
Speaker 5 (22:32):
Is that for the WNBA? And it's weird like the
rest of the band's like, no, I get her away,
No I'm not interested. I don't and they're like refusing
to give her the credit.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Well, what about me.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
I just the La Sparks had a game scheduled for
the Pyramid in Long Beach and then moved it to
Crypto and it was sold out.
Speaker 6 (22:49):
Like she got a standing over.
Speaker 5 (22:51):
I was there, she got a standing ovation during introductions,
Kaylen Clark, everybody's everybody, Sparks fans, everybody.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
As a road player. I just don't get it. Headiness
is weird.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
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Speaker 8 (23:08):
Hey, we're Covino and Rich Fox Sports Radio every day
five to seven pm Eastern.
Speaker 9 (23:13):
But here's the thing.
Speaker 8 (23:14):
We never have enough time to get to everything we
want to get.
Speaker 9 (23:16):
To, and that's why we have a brand new podcast
called over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun
in our two hour show. We never get to everything,
honestly because this guy is over promising things we never
have time for. Yeah, you blubber list lame in me.
Speaker 8 (23:31):
Well, you know what it's called over promise. You should
be good at it because you've been over promising women
for years.
Speaker 9 (23:35):
Well, it's a Cavino and Rich after show and we
want you to be a part of it. We're gonna
be talking sports, of course, but we're also gonna talk
life and relationships. And if Rich and I are arguing
about something or we didn't have enough time, it will
continue on our after show called over Promised.
Speaker 8 (23:49):
Well, if you don't get enough Covino and Rich, make
sure you check out over Promised and also uncensored by
the way, so maybe we'll go at it even a
little harder. It's gonna be the best after show podcast
of all time.
Speaker 9 (24:00):
There you go, over Promising. Remember you could see it
on YouTube, but definitely join us. Listen Over Promised with
Cavino and Rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or
wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Here we go our two live in Los Angeles. It's
the herd wherever you may be and however you may
be listening. Thanks for Megan Out's part of your day.
On a Wednesday game three to night, Dallas Mavericks out
played in Boston, Wheels came off a little Now go
back home. Jmack. Everybody has said it's over interesting story.
(24:37):
Christaps Porzingis has a rare leg injury. As you pointed
out earlier, Porzingis matters more than people think. So with
Porzingis this team shoots fifty one percent from the floor.
When he's off the floor, they shoot forty three percent,
so he cleans up a lot his size. With him
(24:58):
on the floor, they're plus one five without him. Even
game their offensive rating higher when he's on the floor.
The net rating twenty eight plus twenty eight with Porzingis
on the floor, plus two and a half without him.
This Remember, this is not Michael Jordan's Celtics, it's Jason Tatum's.
(25:22):
So Porzingis is an absolute factor. I like Dallas tonight,
though I think Tatum plays well, but it's interesting. I
want to take you back to twenty twenty one. So
Kyrie and PJ. Washington, the second and third best player,
have been hot.
Speaker 4 (25:36):
Garbage.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Go back to twenty twenty one, Chris Middleton and Drew Holiday.
Through two games, the second and third best players stunk
and like Dallas, Bucks fell behind to love Dallas going home.
The Bucks went home. So with the Bucks team, they
were losing to a very well rounded team that we
(25:58):
didn't know if they had a great player in Phoenix.
And right now Dallas is getting boat raced by a
very well constructed team though were not sure if they
have an iconic great player. The best player in that
series was Yannis, unquestionably dealing with some injuries. The best
(26:19):
player in this series is Luca, clearly dealing with some injuries.
Hm So and Kyrie Irving, I would argue, is more
skilled than Chris Middleton and Drew Holiday. Remember that Phoenix team,
like this Boston team, a lot of talent, Michale Bridges, Booker,
Chris Paul, DeAndre Ayton, Jay Crowder. But like Tatum at
(26:43):
that time, we looked at Booker and said, yeah, it
gives you twenty six twenty seven a night, But is
he the guy? Isn't that what we say about Tatum?
Esthetically pleasing all star level? But is he the man?
So I'm just saying, are we sure it's over the numbers?
(27:04):
Tell you remember Milwaukee? What did they do in Game three?
Went back home? Blew out Phoenix by twenty. If Dallas
goes home tonight blows out the Celtics by twenty, be
very very careful. Here's Jason Kidd, MAV's coach, on needing
a win tonight in Game three.
Speaker 10 (27:23):
The urgency started for us a while back, so I
think we're used to that. I think the game of
basketball is about makes and misses and capitalizing on mistakes,
and we just haven't had that, you know, opportunity to capitalize.
We're getting stops, we turned the ball over, we give
up a three. Hopefully we can get you know, the
(27:46):
game is close, coming down a stretch, and we can
capitalize on their mistakes. There's two teams playing, so we
had we can relax and enjoy this and have fun,
and that's what it's all about. And hopefully we can
do that tomorrow night.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
I like tonight. I think their role players, like the
Bucks role players down oh two when they got back home,
the Bucks role players, this is the way it goes.
The Buck's second best player, third best player, fourth best player.
They played very well at home. I think Derek Lively,
a little overwhelmed in Boston, goes back home more comfortable.
(28:23):
I think Kyrie Irving, former Celtic, little overwhelmed in Boston,
goes back home. I think Dallas is comfortable and wins
substantially tonight. With that Rick Buker covering the leagues, that's
nineteen ninety three. He's on speak today. Are Fox Sports
NBA analyst Rick Buker joining us today? So you know,
my I remember that Milwaukee series, and we've talked about
(28:46):
this generally stars Luca Jannis, MJ. Kobe. They're good everywhere, Yeah,
but your second, third, fourth, fifth guys tend to be
on average in these big spots a little better at home. Yep.
So my theory is this does have a little bit
of a feel that Phoenix team, like Boston pretty stacked.
We had questions about their one oh as being a one.
(29:09):
Do you think Dallas does have a shot going forward?
I do.
Speaker 6 (29:12):
I still believe they have a chance at winning the
series for a number of the reasons that you've already
pointed out. I also believe, while I don't know if
we look at Kyrie Kyrie Irving purely as a role player,
I do believe that he was fighting some gremlins in Boston,
wanted to show the Boston fans something, and was doing
(29:33):
a little too much on his own well I supposed
to just playing within the concept of the team. And
I do think, Look, the Mavericks haven't gotten anything out
of their bigs. Maxie Kleeber hasn't given him anything. Daniel
gaffor Derek Lively, at least offensively rebounding wise, A little bit,
but scoring whise not at all, and they need that. PJ.
(29:54):
Washington same thing. I honestly, I'm looking at Luca in
the for him to be a better playmaker and to
make decisions quicker, because the Dallas Mavericks are better overall.
Daniel Gafford and Derek Lively and all those guys aren't
going to get BJ Washington even aren't going to get
things on their own. Luca's going to be setting that up.
(30:15):
He had one assist in game one and he had
eight turnovers. In Game two. He has twelve assists and
twelve turnovers in the two games. He has to be
a far better playmaker to get those guys involved, and
they are a much better team when they have everybody involved.
So to me, that's going to be the big difference
(30:36):
can Luca. And I don't want to take away from
Boston's defense. They've made things harder on him, much harder
on him than Minnesota did. The matchups are more difficult
for him. But I just I think he can play
a steady or more efficient game, and that's going to
be the difference.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
One of the early comps I made with Luca was
Carmelo Anthony not in great shape, not very good at
the defensive end, and may have trouble playing with others.
There are videos circulating on the internet. I saw one
yesterday Luca is horrific defensively, Like I mean, it's it
is just not really competing. Now. I think he's better
(31:11):
than Melo because it's a three ball league and he's brilliant.
And I also think but our ball handler probably better passer.
But that was always the knock on Melow, which is
struggles to play with others, doesn't really committed the defensive end.
When I watch those Luca clips against the Celtics, now,
is it injury.
Speaker 6 (31:28):
Or yeah, I think the the whatever he's dealing with,
that's part of it. He's never been a great defender, No,
but he's been better over the course of this season, yes,
than he's ever been. And Boston also has enough offensive
players and guys with size who can handle where they
(31:48):
can go at Luca and they that's one of the
things are that's what they have done that Minnesota did
not do. Yeah, but they have the personnel to do that.
So I'm going to put some of the issues that
he's had defensively on where he is physically, but Boston
has made a point of exposing that, so good on
them for that. I really do not like your Carmelo
(32:11):
comparison at all. Though I see it is going to
be Mail's a Hall of Famer. I see the similarities,
but Luca is a much smarter playmaker in involving everybody
and getting things done in terms of being able to
get where they want to go and being three level scorers.
(32:31):
I would compare that, and I do think that Carmelo
is one of those guys who left a lot on
the table in terms of what he could have been.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Oh totally right. Yeah, But I'm not saying it's a
perfect comp but it was when everybody fell in love
with Luca. I said, the conditioning the defense couldn't get
along with Brunton or Porzingis. I said, there's stuff there
that I don't love. You know what.
Speaker 6 (32:53):
This is one element that I agree with in that,
and we see it go back and forth with Luca.
I think Luca is trying to be a better distributor
and teammate.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Because it has been.
Speaker 6 (33:06):
Yeah, but my problem is is when and we saw
it in we saw a lot of it in Game one.
We saw some of it. In game two when things
kind of fall apart or they need a boost, he
becomes very like, I'm going to do it, and it
really kind of will get his numbers and he'll hit
some shots, but it the rest of the team doesn't
(33:29):
play the same way, and that is that's what Mellow
did a lot and would undermine his team.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
So I'm gonna save Jerry West for the end because
I know you have thoughts on that and no, Jerry.
The Dan Hurley situation with the Lakers is interesting. So
there's the whole thing felt a little odd. He was
gonna be on the show today, he's recruiting, He'll be
there tomorrow, here tomorrow. You know, there's the parts of
it that are like, you know, one reporter, Sean said,
(33:59):
it's Jay's job. So I want to start with that.
JJ had no experience. He was a podcaster, and in
order for JJ to work. My take was he better
get a great staff. Take me through what you heard
about it's JJ's job, because now it seems like he's
not in the running. It was that true? Did you
believe it was his job? Why did it erode quickly?
(34:21):
Why did it regress over the course of like four days.
Speaker 6 (34:24):
Yeah, it wasn't his job, but it was what the
Lakers wanted to do if they could put the right
staff around them. Okay, so the staff meant a lot
to the Lakers thousand percent. They were like, we can
see this working, but we have to have the right
guys on the bill.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
So what happened.
Speaker 6 (34:40):
Those guys were not willing to be JJ's caddy. I mean,
James Brigo, Sam Cassel, like, those are the guys that
they were interviewing, and everybody took it as they're interviewing
them for the head coach. They're competing with JJ for
the job. No, the Lakers wanted those guys to be
on the staff supporting JJ because they've got farm experience.
(35:01):
James de Rego actually has head coaching experience in Charlotte,
and those guys, from what I understand, weren't willing to
do it, either because of the role or the money
that was being offered. So they're like, Okay, we need
to pivot, like this this isn't gonna work. What else
can we do?
Speaker 1 (35:16):
So did they pivot to Hurley or did Hurley reach
out because he hadn't signed a contract.
Speaker 6 (35:21):
My understanding is that they pivoted to Hurley because they
found out that Hurley had not signed. They thought he
has the six year, forty eight million. They didn't know
he was available, and they found out, oh, he might
be available now whether Hurley did it with the idea
of I don't like my deal because the deal that
(35:42):
was sitting on his desk that he had not signed
was less than what Bill self is making in Kansas.
I'm Dan Hurley, I've just won back to back championships.
I may be going for a third. I should be
the highest, Like there shouldn't even be a question. I
shouldn't at least be paid on So seltzers ten million
a year, and he was looking at seven and a
(36:04):
half ish yees eighty I think yeah around there.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
So he was looking for a little raise.
Speaker 6 (36:11):
So he was looking for a raise, which at which
I would expect his Like everybody's reporting, he's now signing
six years fifty from what the governor of Connecticut has said,
like he should be. He should be paid on par
with Bill self. I would expect that that deal is
going to end up being ten per He's going to
get that.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
So he he got that.
Speaker 6 (36:29):
Essentially out of the Lakers dalliance. But I do think
that if the Lakers had come correct, if they had
made a can't refuse offer, that they could have got Hurley.
I don't think Hurley was just exploring it and using
(36:49):
it as leverage to get a better deal and was
always planning to go back to Yukon and go after
a third championship. I think he saw the opportunity to
make the kind of contract that he couldn't possibly make
at Yukon. And we've gone back and forth on this,
like people think that, like, well, you're two time champion
(37:10):
and you can go for a third and you can
put yourself in the John Wooden category, like that's bigger
than being the Lakers coach.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Another Lakers coach, I.
Speaker 6 (37:21):
Respectfully disagree. We for all that Hurley has done at Yukon,
Like when it was March Madness, we were talking about Hurley.
Beyond that, nobody's talking about Hurley. As soon as he
became oh, he could be the Lakers head coach. It
took his Q rating to a different place. I know
where the Lakers are, I know the job's not great,
(37:42):
but the fact is, being the head coach of the
Los Angeles Lakers is going to resonate to a greater audience.
It's going to make you more visible then, Yeah, but
however many championships you win in Yukon, let me push back.
Nick Saban was more or visible going to the NFL
than he tain't Like. More visible's great if you're winning.
(38:05):
Understood more visible being fired is not good for the brand, okay,
But but that's what happens after you get there, right Like,
And if you're Dan Hurley, you're thinking, if they give
me enough money and they give me enough time, I
can make that work. You don't have the success that
Dan Hurley has had if you don't believe that no
(38:25):
matter where you go, you can make it work. Because
and he has the track record. He went to Wagner,
they were a losing, losing program. They were a winner
when he left top of the conference, went to Rhode Island,
losing record, turned it around, took him to the top,
and now with Yukon. So if I'm Dan Hurley, the
reason I'm taking the Lakers job is, yeah, I know
(38:47):
what it looks like right now, but if you give
me time, I can turn this into a winner because
I always have.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
So I want to talk about Jerry west I said
he was almost singular. There's certainly in our mean he's
the greatest executive of all time. Of the four best dynasties,
you can argue he created three of them. I think
he played a bigger role in Golden State, where he
said he'd resign if they moved Clay for Kevin Love,
where he told them move off Montelis, Get Get Size,
(39:14):
where he'd embraced Steph very early, where he whispered into
Katie's ear, You're gonna get easier shots out here than
you are with Westbrook. I mean, so I said earlier today,
I'm like, I think Michaels probably viewed as the best player.
I view Jerry is the best executive one a is
pat Riley. That's my worldview on it. Is that inaccurate?
(39:37):
How do you land on Jerry?
Speaker 6 (39:39):
This is why I'm always amazed when people don't put
him in the top three or four all time Lakers.
And it's a combination of what he was as a
player and what he was as an executive. And I mean,
this news is kind of hard for me because Jerry was,
as you said, a singular guy, and you I would
(40:02):
joke about it like I would get on the phone
with him and I'd ask him one question, and I'd
have a lot of questions for him. I'd ask him
one question, and forty five minutes later, I'm waiting to.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Ask my second question. His breadth of knowledge is.
Speaker 6 (40:15):
I mean, he just and it was one of the
things that made him so special as an executive because
he could talk to great players. As a great player,
he never lost he never lost that feel for what
it meant to be a great player, even when he
became an executive and his his going and getting and
(40:39):
at the same time he figured out ways to make
the front office numbers details work. I mean, his his
getting shack from Orlando to the Lakers was no small
feat at that time. That was that was that he
(41:00):
took a lot of heavy lifting. But the other part
was that for all that he did, there was a
humility about him.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
There's no quo. I always felt he never lost there's
a vulnerable I've said this about Tom Brady, considering how
good he looks and how good he's been, there was
always sort of a like like Bill runs the show,
I'm just a quarterback. There is a humility to Jerry.
Now Jerry could be very relentless if you looked at
his childhood. All of our childhood shape our personalities as adults. Sure,
(41:32):
but there was I mean, he stre when he made
that Shack deal. I can remember reading a story where
he said he he got sick. It was such a
big deal, and Shack was regarded as literally an immovable unicorn.
There was no Shack. He made the deal. He felt
for the Bus family, for the city of Los Angeles.
He was so nervous that I guess he got sick
(41:55):
physically well, he.
Speaker 6 (41:57):
I mean, he couldn't watch games. He would get on
the car, get into his car and drive on the
freeways and listen to games because he couldn't stand just
sitting there in the stands watching games. And it looked,
I mean that some of our greatest assets are also
our biggest defects, right, and and and what drove him
(42:17):
and what kind of fueled that humility was this feeling
like if I don't work as hard as I possibly can,
I'm I'm not gonna make it. I'm I'm going to lose,
I'm gonna be I'm gonna not be good enough. And
and it was almost like a paranoia and a and
an obsession to work as hard as he did, and
(42:40):
so that fueled him. But at the time it made
him a little crazy too. I mean he was he
was known as he was known as.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Both the Logo and l Loco.
Speaker 6 (42:50):
He had both nicknames and and lived up to both
of them. But man, what I just a tortured human
being in some ways, but just a genuine I got
to tell you, just between losing Bill and now losing Jerry, like,
those are two guys that were They brought such a
(43:12):
humanity to the league. If you were in the league
and you got a chance to know them. That's what
made the NBA so special, is the fabric of it
and the people that you got to know and who
they were.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
Well, the NFL's always been very corporate. Basketball has been
the artist league's I always feel that basketball, NBA basketball
is similar to international soccer that MESSI may be flawed
and Rinaldo's not perfect, but this is an open canvas.
The ball is yours make art. Football is diagrammed a
(43:46):
lot of practices. It's marching band. Stay on task, that's right,
it's marching band. Basketball is where our great sports artists live.
Same with international soccer. And so because of that, aesthetics
matter yep.
Speaker 6 (44:00):
And personality does too, Yeah, Like the personality of somebody
is visible and informs how they play.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
So a flawed player that I mean for a long time,
Kareem was the best player on the planet, but he
was never really embraced because it was a bit prickly,
Doctor j There was more flavor, there was more color,
there was magic, magic Johnson like, right, So it's like
in basketball, these are artists that can You're gonna spill
(44:29):
some paint, yeah, like right, like the greatest player shoot
forty eight percent. There's a lot of paint to be spilled.
And so when I look at Jerry and I look
at his the logo at Loco, that's part of basketball,
his tough childhood. There's also something to be said about
small state or small town. People who go to big
cities have sort of that intuitive fear like, oh, I'm
(44:52):
a little kid, small town and it drives them. For
Jerry always felt a little West Virginia one.
Speaker 6 (44:57):
Thousand percent without question. Long you could put the suit,
I mean you just take take a look at that,
Like you can put a suit and tie on him,
small town kid, but he's still He's still got that
West Virginia look to him.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
What's interesting about Jerry is a lot of times, as
people age in any industry, you know, the young don't
really listen. Yep, the young, they're disconnected. It's the old guy.
It is fascinating to see the reverence. Michael Kobe, Durant Lebron,
(45:33):
there's a reverence to a mid eighty year old guy,
and I don't know what that is.
Speaker 6 (45:39):
A big part of it was the fact that as
we get older, sometimes we fall into I know it
all and this is the way I've done it, and
this has been my formula for success. And and Jerry
was never that way. Yes, when I would ask a
question in forty five minutes later, but he won it
(46:00):
to know what I knew, and that's often where the
conversation started. He was, as to the very end, was
looking to pick other people's brains about what's going on
and how they evolved. It was an amazing listener, and
he was all He never approached it like when he
would approach great players. He would it wasn't like, let
(46:23):
me tell you how this works. He would ask them
what's going on? And when you have somebody who's accomplished
with Jerry has accomplished, and they want to know first
where you're coming from. Now, guys feel like you're invested
in them as opposed to you're just trying to show
them the ropes. No, you understand that this individual's ropes
(46:47):
might be different than what I've experienced. Let me see
how my knowledge applies to their situations. It's nuanced. But
that was Jerry to the very end.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
Jerry.
Speaker 6 (46:57):
Jerry never thought of himself as the logo, right.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
No, he pushed it back multiple times. He asked Adam
celb and David started to change it.
Speaker 6 (47:06):
Yeah, Well, because he was more like, look, I mean
he never lost that I'm the kid from West Virginia
trying to make it that at his heart was remained
and you know, all of the other stuff didn't change that.
And it was one of the things that made him
so a little crazy and a little endearing. Yeah,
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
noon Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at
Fox Sportsradio dot com, or stream us live every day
on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Here we go. It is a Wednesday. We are live
in Los Angeles. It is the Hurt wherever you may be,
however you may be listening. Thanks for making us part
of your day on a sad day. A somber tone
to start our show for the first five or six minutes.
The greatest basketball executive of all time, Jerry West, has
(00:48):
passed away an incredible, almost singular career. Jmax joining me
as well Rick yeukernin now to talk about this. It's
hard to he had so many successes. He was almost
a basketball whisper, even to the end in the last
seven eight years. If you had a basketball dilemma, called
Jerry West, and that's what we start our show today.
(01:10):
He was so many things. He was an all time
great player who became the logo. You don't just make
any player the logo. No other player in our major
sports had ever been considered to be the logo. He
was a generationally unique eighties, nineties, two thousands. He was
(01:32):
a respected basketball voice. He was the architect of three dynasties.
And he was a relentless personality. You've seen that in
the documentary, You've read that in books, because he understood
what greatness looked like and he was not willing to
sacrifice anything to get there. He also had a well
documented tough bordering on brutal childhood, and it always felt
(01:55):
like along the way he was a bit tortured. Even
the way the Lakers relationship ended, it wasn't perfect. Jerry
was almost singular in his greatness. He was arguably the
first great guard in the NBA, mister Clutch. He very
quickly established himself as almost a Spengali, a guru of
(02:15):
basketball talent. Yes, you know about Shaq and Kobe, and
you know about Kareem and Magic, but do you realize
how big he was in the Warriors dynasty as he aged.
I always say you can tell a lot about a
man when he goes past perhaps his prime years. You
look at him, you listen to him. Has he been
(02:38):
willing to acknowledge issues, grow, evolve? That was Jerry West.
He was the one that told them move off Monte Ellis,
embrace Steph Curry and go get Andrew Boget. You need size.
He was the one that told them, I will resign
if you move off Klaye. Thompson for Kevin Love, and
at the time Kevin Love was the better player. He
(03:00):
was the one that whispered in Kd's ear, you'll get
better shots there than you do in Oklahoma City. The
architect of three dynasties and arguably, outside of the Bulls,
the three best dynasties ever. He knew basketball. He loved basketball.
He was great at basketball. The best way I could
(03:22):
describe Jerry West as a guard and as an executive,
he didn't miss much. Here's Jerry on our show years
ago as the greatest executive talking about probably the greatest player,
Michael Jordan.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
If you watched him go anywhere, he was like the
pie fighter. You could not keep people away from him.
He just had that incredible charisma. But when he played,
every night he played, he was not going to take
a night at all. I love Michael Jordan. I absolutely
love Michael Jeordan. He just he's the best. He's the
(04:02):
best athlete I've ever seen in basketball. People are going
to make comparisons. But I wonder today, with the rules
having changed today, you can't handcheck, you can't touch anyone,
you can walk all over the place, you can carry
the basketball all over the place. And this is the
evolution of the game. If he could have added that
to his game, my goodness, what would we see today?
Speaker 1 (04:26):
It tells you a lot about Jerry West is that
the greatest current players, his contemporaries, his peers, all generations.
When Jerry walked into a room, they stopped talking and
they listened. It was sometimes combative with the Lakers. There's
(04:46):
a lot of egos, a lot of brain power, a
lot of greatness in Los Angeles, and it didn't end
well with the Lakers. But Jerry has to be seen
as almost singularly a unique all time player and executive.
Rest in peace to mister clutch the logo all Right.
Things a bit bumpy in New York with the Jets,
(05:10):
so Aaron Rodgers didn't show up for day one of
Mini Camp. Now, through the years, I've said, and I
believe this, there's too much football practice. Sean McVeigh came
to the Rams with a different sensibility and said, let's
lighten up practice and let's not play any of our
starters in the preseason. People scoffed, rolled their eyes. They
(05:34):
won't be ready for the opener they started the year eight. No,
it doesn't bother me that much that Aaron Rodgers missed
a day of mini camp, although Diana Russini says reporter,
he now will miss the entire camp. Okay, So why
(05:54):
was it so clunky when his head coach Robert Salla
went to the podium of couple of days ago to
talk about his absence on day one.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
Aaron and I spoke before otia started. He's been very
good in communication. He's been here the entire time. It's
an excuse, but he had an event that was very
important to him, which he communicated him an event.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
He's missing the entire camp? Is it jury duty? Is
it a sales conference? Coachella still going on? Events don't
last a week, So that's real fuzzy. And also, why
did Robert Sala have to say verbally? He could have
kept it to himself that it was an unexcused absence.
(06:48):
My guess is the power dynamic with Aaron Rodgers has
always been a little off. So Sala wants to make
it clear he runs the team and not Aaron. But
it felt a little past aggressive and like the scolding teacher.
But this is what happens when you give a prickly
rich set in his ways, passive aggressive quarterback coming to
(07:14):
save the franchise, and you put him with a defensive
coach on the hot seat with an eleven and twenty
three record before Aaron got there, What you get is
a weird power dynamic. Even as great as Brady was,
Belichick ran the show and Tom knewittt Even as great
(07:35):
as Mahomes is, Andy Reid runs the show, moves off
of Tyreek Hill, and Mahomes knows it. I could argue
the rudderless ship known as the New York Jets need
stronger management, not less intensity and less power and less leverage.
So Sler really has his hands tied. But they've been
(07:58):
tied from day one. From the very outset, the power
dynamic here has been off. It's why I didn't buy
him last year. I think they'll be good this year,
but I don't consider him a super Bowl team too
much of a perpetual weird odd mess. An uneven franchise
that threw a Hail Mary to get Aaron let him
pick the OC who wouldn't have gotten a job as
(08:20):
an OC anywhere else in the league, had him bring
in Randall Cobb and Alan Lazard, overpaying for Lazard. Cobb
is no longer really a roster player, though he had
a nice career. It's all about the power dynamic Sala.
When Aaron landed was an unproven, losing record defensive coach
(08:40):
who had no momentum with an impulsive owner a new GM,
you thought this was gonna work. Aaron in Green Bay
never liked it that he didn't have as much control
as he felt he deserved. Brady never got caught up
in that. He didn't care to win trophies. So part
(09:02):
of Aaron's personality has always been I want to say
I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do. So none of
this is a surprise. The quarterback, the head coach, the GM.
It just feels odd. The power dynamic is off. You
see this often in the NBA, where the star runs
(09:25):
through coaches, that's a basketball culture thing. It's not a
football culture thing, except apparently in New York. But hybs
an event. I was told last night from a source,
I trust Aaron's on vacation and it's overseas. I'm also
told you'll learn about where he's at tomorrow. Don't want
(09:49):
to burn my source. I'm told you'll learn about it tomorrow.
Maybe he is at an event. Can't believe there's something
overseas that would take seven, eight, nine days. Again, maybe
they have a music festival. But the point is, don't
be surprised by this. This is sort of what you
would expect. Impulsive owner, new GM coach with a losing record,
(10:14):
prickly older at times, arrogant, disconnected quarterback in New York
City with a pretty relentless and inarguably massive press corps.
This is what you get j Mac from missing Day
one to missing Mini Camp. I would imagine as somebody
(10:35):
on this show that's a Jets fan. It didn't sit
terribly well with you.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Notck great.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
Obviously, if you were in Europe, somebody would see him.
If you were international, somebody would see him. I wonder, Colin,
did he get another darkness retreat on the books, and
that's why there's been no reports. Nobody's seen him anywhere.
The treehouse that he goes into for the Darkness retreat
just opened up.
Speaker 6 (10:55):
And hey, this is your time.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
You paid for it. You got to go.
Speaker 6 (10:57):
I don't know that counts as an event, right.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Well, I was told he's overseas, and I was told
tomorrow people will find out where he was overseas. Now
is he still there? Did he come back to the country.
But it's just it's did Saula have to say unexcused absence?
Don't you just keep that to yourself? Like, isn't that
just poking Aaron? Listen if once you get Aaron in
(11:22):
the door and you know he can be sensitive, it's
like Kevin Durant, you know when I poke him in
the ribs. Like part of inheriting Aaron is okay. When
you're the Jets, you sit down before Aaron gets there
and you're like, yep, he's talented, he's probably past his prime,
he's going to be expensive. He can take us to
a different place. You got to coddle him a little.
(11:45):
That's kind of Aaron's You kind of know that with
Aaron you got to coddle him a little. You got
to give him the guys he wants. That's just part
of the game with Aaron. But I think going up
and saying it's unexcused and then you have to say
he's at an event. Well, now that puts pressure on.
People are gonna ask Aaron about what's the event. What
if Aaron doesn't want to talk about the event. It's
(12:06):
just odd to me. It's more noise than you need.
Speaker 5 (12:09):
Unless, of course, he's embracing the attention, wants the attention,
wants everybody talking about him, because we know he's one
of those kind of guys.
Speaker 6 (12:16):
You gotta be talking about me all the time.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
I'm Aaron Rodgers, So being skipping out on camp good
way to get people talking.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
About you, huh. I don't know, It's just that, you
know what I've said before, Aaron's great content. I mean,
he's given me probably six to eight weeks of content
just on him. It doesn't matter where he goes.
Speaker 5 (12:36):
Could he give six to eight wins like before Halloween?
Speaker 6 (12:39):
That'd be nice, that felt personal.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
and neon easternn a EM Pacific on Fox Sports radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 6 (12:51):
So I was thinking about this.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Aaron Rodgers, according to Diana Russini, not only miss day
one a mini camp, He's gonna miss all of it
for an event which we're not sure what it is,
but how many week long events are there? Be that
as it may. Aaron falls into a group of older
quarterbacks finding a new team, but his feels different the
(13:14):
other guys. The other older quarterbacks that went to a
team felt sort of grateful and they were hyper focused,
all in. I mean, Russell Wilson didn't work, but he
was all in, right, I mean, Peyton Manning goes to Denver,
he had four neck surgeries. He was grateful for a
second opportunity and was phenomenal and was all in, even
(13:35):
though physically he wasn't his best. When Brady went to Tampa,
he was doing illegal practices at Jesuit High School that
a local helicopter news vehicle discovered. He was all in.
Matt Stafford went to the Rams, so grateful finally having
a franchise that was well run and mcveigh's brilliance all in.
(13:57):
Aaron in New York has felt a little different to like, Hey,
You're lucky to have me. I get Hackett, Alan Lazard
and Cobb made demands. It's one thing when Brady said,
give me Gronk still a great player. It's another if
you're taking players who you forced them to hire that
didn't have really the ability to be hired in the market.
(14:19):
Nathaniel Hackett or really weren't NFL players Randall Cobb or
you overpay for number three receivers or four receivers Alan Lazard.
I'm okay Brady asking for Gronk or Leonard Fernett. I
get that, but from the beginning it hasn't been much gratitude.
(14:40):
It's your lucky to have me, and I would argue
or at least ask you to entertain. The thought is
that Aaron's never really been in terms of football. Maybe
he is in life, but in football he's never come
off as grateful. He was pissed at the NFL coming
into the league because of where he was drafted. He dropped.
He was not happy having to sit behind Rogers for
(15:02):
three years, very quickly with Mike McCarthy, didn't appreciate his coaching,
even though McCarthy, to his credit, Green Van Dallas averages
about ten to eleven, twelve wins a season, by the way,
unhappy with one of the best front offices in the
NFL in the last twenty years, the Green Bay Packers
and could not form a relationship. Was not grateful for
(15:23):
Davonte Adams. I mean Brady's like best friends with like
his number four receivers, his Chris Hogan's forget Welker's and
Edelman's and Gronks, Brady's buddies with all of them. Aaron
could not sacrifice a little more time for Davonte Adams.
So it feels like Manning in Denver, Stafford in La.
(15:45):
You know Brady in Tampa. There was a level of gratitude,
a relentlessness and all in, let's make this work. No
sacrifices for Aaron. He talks the game, but he's not
walking it. He said this, he said this after the
season ended, and this matters.
Speaker 7 (16:06):
Everything that we do has to have a purpose too.
When you step in the building, there's intentionality with everything
that you do. And it's not a half the time thing.
It's not a sometimes thing, it's not a most of
the time thing. It's an every time thing. If you
want to be a winning organization then to put you
some position to win championships and be competitive. Everything that
you do matters, and that it has nothing to do
(16:29):
with winning needs to get out of the building.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
You know, it sounds like Jordan Peterson, it comes out
of a seminar, but you gotta live it. We got
to get all non football stuff, the bs out of
the building. Well, I'd argue Aaron some BS and he's
not in the building, so maybe it's fitting. But you
can sound like a psychologist, you can sound like a
Ted talk you gotta live it. If you're going to
(16:54):
demand commitment, you got to live like Tom Brady. If
you're going to demand brain power, you got to be
as smart as Peyton Manning. If you're going to demand
arm talent, you got to have Matt Stafford's soup bone.
And then if you're going to demand no more non
football stuff, you can't take mini camp off for an
(17:17):
event and nobody's quite sure what it is and it's unexcused.
That's the BS you were lecturing the franchise on. So
you know, I say what you want about it, I
just don't think it looks very good. So and we'll
keep you updated. I've been told for at least some
of this he was out of the country for at
(17:39):
least some of it. That's what I was told. And
I have no idea what the event. I don't know
what lasts a week, A sales conference, a corporate retreat, Coachella,
Jerry Duty, I don't know what last a week first
star quarterback in the NFL golf tournament, or a weekend.
Speaker 7 (17:53):
Maybe.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
So women's basketball in this kind of Olympic, women's basketball
cannot get out of their own way. So they are
now reeling a little bit not putting Caitlin Clark on
the team, and they cited her inexperience as the reason why. Well, okay,
that's funny because I look this morning, four different times
(18:19):
rookies in the WNBA made the Olympic team Breonna Stewart,
Sylvia foles Kandae Parker, Diana Tarassi. So I'm not buying
the inexperienced thing. I'm also not buying Well, she's not
one of the top twelve players either, is Diana Tarassi.
I'm also not buying that you know her game. It's
(18:43):
being duplicated. They've already got three point shooters. Well, Sabrina
on Nescue one of the best three point shooters on
this women's Olympic team is off to a really rough start,
so you could use her. So just think about it
this way. This is what I'm struck by the whole time.
(19:03):
If I did you, let's reverse it. If you did
me a huge favor, wouldn't I owe you one? You
do me a seismic favor, a life changing favor, I
owe you one. So Caitlin Clark and players complained about
(19:23):
this for years, six twenty seven year our travel second rate.
She got them chartered flights. Singularly, don't you owe something,
you know, besides a box of chocolates? I don't know,
Maybe squeeze her into the Olympic team. I mean, if
(19:43):
I if you got me you were a rich cat,
you were a guy with leverage or a woman with leverage,
and you got me two years of private jet travel upgrades,
I'd probably invite you to the wedding, probably probably do
something for your kids, something substantial. I mean, just in
the favored apartment. She got them the attention they've been
(20:07):
begging for and the private chartered flights they've been lamenting.
You can't do her a solid. You can't squeeze her in.
You've done it four times. You put a rookie on
the Olympic team four different times. And she's certainly in
this three ball era, uniquely skilled. She has the best
(20:30):
range in the league. Her shots don't even look like
WNBA player shots. You're gonna tell me one of your
best three point shooters is having a little bit of
a turbulent start. You can't bring the best range. Yeah,
you also you can't use this excuse either, Well, she's
not good enough. When's the last time the United States
(20:51):
women's A limit basketball team lost a game. You've won
seven straight golds. The margin here is massive. This is
not like tight margins. You're winning the gold. You always
win the gold. So I just think, just on, there's
instead of the pettiness which we see and the body
(21:13):
language and the clear jealousy amongst some w at not all,
but some WNBA players got to grow up a little
bit when somebody does you. This is the way life works.
If somebody does you a solid, two massive solids that
you've complained about for years, you kind of owe them
one a little squeezer into the final spot, a little favor.
(21:40):
I mean, if you and I complained about travel for
two years and somebody got us. You and I fly
to events or remotes, three two year private jet upgrades.
You and I are sitting down figuring what are we
going to do for that person? Something fairly substantial? What
are we going to do for that person?
Speaker 5 (21:58):
So is there an analogy or that the WNBA was
like a garage rock band, right, and they're playing for
neighborhoods and its birthday parties, and then all of a
sudden they've got a chance to add like this amazing singer.
Speaker 6 (22:11):
Nobody gets kicked.
Speaker 5 (22:11):
Out of the band, but you level up and get
this new singer, and it's.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Like, holy cal you're playing, You're playing, You're playing stadium.
Speaker 5 (22:18):
You're all those unplayed stadiums. Are you going to be
resentful of that person or extremely happy that your everything
you've got is elevated? You're now getting side deals because
of the promotion that this new star has added to
your band.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Caitln Clark?
Speaker 5 (22:32):
Is that for the WNBA? And it's weird like the
rest of the band's like, no, I get her away,
No I'm not interested. I don't and they're like refusing
to give her the credit.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Well, what about me.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
I just the La Sparks had a game scheduled for
the Pyramid in Long Beach and then moved it to
Crypto and it was sold out.
Speaker 6 (22:49):
Like she got a standing over.
Speaker 5 (22:51):
I was there, she got a standing ovation during introductions,
Kaylen Clark, everybody's everybody, Sparks fans, everybody.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
As a road player. I just don't get it. Headiness
is weird.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon Eastern, not a Empacific.
Speaker 8 (23:08):
Hey, we're Covino and Rich Fox Sports Radio every day
five to seven pm Eastern.
Speaker 9 (23:13):
But here's the thing.
Speaker 8 (23:14):
We never have enough time to get to everything we
want to get.
Speaker 9 (23:16):
To, and that's why we have a brand new podcast
called over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun
in our two hour show. We never get to everything,
honestly because this guy is over promising things we never
have time for. Yeah, you blubber list lame in me.
Speaker 8 (23:31):
Well, you know what it's called over promise. You should
be good at it because you've been over promising women
for years.
Speaker 9 (23:35):
Well, it's a Cavino and Rich after show and we
want you to be a part of it. We're gonna
be talking sports, of course, but we're also gonna talk
life and relationships. And if Rich and I are arguing
about something or we didn't have enough time, it will
continue on our after show called over Promised.
Speaker 8 (23:49):
Well, if you don't get enough Covino and Rich, make
sure you check out over Promised and also uncensored by
the way, so maybe we'll go at it even a
little harder. It's gonna be the best after show podcast
of all time.
Speaker 9 (24:00):
There you go, over Promising. Remember you could see it
on YouTube, but definitely join us. Listen Over Promised with
Cavino and Rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or
wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Here we go our two live in Los Angeles. It's
the herd wherever you may be and however you may
be listening. Thanks for Megan Out's part of your day.
On a Wednesday game three to night, Dallas Mavericks out
played in Boston, Wheels came off a little Now go
back home. Jmack. Everybody has said it's over interesting story.
(24:37):
Christaps Porzingis has a rare leg injury. As you pointed
out earlier, Porzingis matters more than people think. So with
Porzingis this team shoots fifty one percent from the floor.
When he's off the floor, they shoot forty three percent,
so he cleans up a lot his size. With him
(24:58):
on the floor, they're plus one five without him. Even
game their offensive rating higher when he's on the floor.
The net rating twenty eight plus twenty eight with Porzingis
on the floor, plus two and a half without him.
This Remember, this is not Michael Jordan's Celtics, it's Jason Tatum's.
(25:22):
So Porzingis is an absolute factor. I like Dallas tonight,
though I think Tatum plays well, but it's interesting. I
want to take you back to twenty twenty one. So
Kyrie and PJ. Washington, the second and third best player,
have been hot.
Speaker 4 (25:36):
Garbage.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Go back to twenty twenty one, Chris Middleton and Drew Holiday.
Through two games, the second and third best players stunk
and like Dallas, Bucks fell behind to love Dallas going home.
The Bucks went home. So with the Bucks team, they
were losing to a very well rounded team that we
(25:58):
didn't know if they had a great player in Phoenix.
And right now Dallas is getting boat raced by a
very well constructed team though were not sure if they
have an iconic great player. The best player in that
series was Yannis, unquestionably dealing with some injuries. The best
(26:19):
player in this series is Luca, clearly dealing with some injuries.
Hm So and Kyrie Irving, I would argue, is more
skilled than Chris Middleton and Drew Holiday. Remember that Phoenix team,
like this Boston team, a lot of talent, Michale Bridges, Booker,
Chris Paul, DeAndre Ayton, Jay Crowder. But like Tatum at
(26:43):
that time, we looked at Booker and said, yeah, it
gives you twenty six twenty seven a night, But is
he the guy? Isn't that what we say about Tatum?
Esthetically pleasing all star level? But is he the man?
So I'm just saying, are we sure it's over the numbers?
(27:04):
Tell you remember Milwaukee? What did they do in Game three?
Went back home? Blew out Phoenix by twenty. If Dallas
goes home tonight blows out the Celtics by twenty, be
very very careful. Here's Jason Kidd, MAV's coach, on needing
a win tonight in Game three.
Speaker 10 (27:23):
The urgency started for us a while back, so I
think we're used to that. I think the game of
basketball is about makes and misses and capitalizing on mistakes,
and we just haven't had that, you know, opportunity to capitalize.
We're getting stops, we turned the ball over, we give
up a three. Hopefully we can get you know, the
(27:46):
game is close, coming down a stretch, and we can
capitalize on their mistakes. There's two teams playing, so we
had we can relax and enjoy this and have fun,
and that's what it's all about. And hopefully we can
do that tomorrow night.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
I like tonight. I think their role players, like the
Bucks role players down oh two when they got back home,
the Bucks role players, this is the way it goes.
The Buck's second best player, third best player, fourth best player.
They played very well at home. I think Derek Lively,
a little overwhelmed in Boston, goes back home more comfortable.
(28:23):
I think Kyrie Irving, former Celtic, little overwhelmed in Boston,
goes back home. I think Dallas is comfortable and wins
substantially tonight. With that Rick Buker covering the leagues, that's
nineteen ninety three. He's on speak today. Are Fox Sports
NBA analyst Rick Buker joining us today? So you know,
my I remember that Milwaukee series, and we've talked about
(28:46):
this generally stars Luca Jannis, MJ. Kobe. They're good everywhere, Yeah,
but your second, third, fourth, fifth guys tend to be
on average in these big spots a little better at home. Yep.
So my theory is this does have a little bit
of a feel that Phoenix team, like Boston pretty stacked.
We had questions about their one oh as being a one.
(29:09):
Do you think Dallas does have a shot going forward?
I do.
Speaker 6 (29:12):
I still believe they have a chance at winning the
series for a number of the reasons that you've already
pointed out. I also believe, while I don't know if
we look at Kyrie Kyrie Irving purely as a role player,
I do believe that he was fighting some gremlins in Boston,
wanted to show the Boston fans something, and was doing
(29:33):
a little too much on his own well I supposed
to just playing within the concept of the team. And
I do think, Look, the Mavericks haven't gotten anything out
of their bigs. Maxie Kleeber hasn't given him anything. Daniel
gaffor Derek Lively, at least offensively rebounding wise, A little bit,
but scoring whise not at all, and they need that. PJ.
(29:54):
Washington same thing. I honestly, I'm looking at Luca in
the for him to be a better playmaker and to
make decisions quicker, because the Dallas Mavericks are better overall.
Daniel Gafford and Derek Lively and all those guys aren't
going to get BJ Washington even aren't going to get
things on their own. Luca's going to be setting that up.
(30:15):
He had one assist in game one and he had
eight turnovers. In Game two. He has twelve assists and
twelve turnovers in the two games. He has to be
a far better playmaker to get those guys involved, and
they are a much better team when they have everybody involved.
So to me, that's going to be the big difference
(30:36):
can Luca. And I don't want to take away from
Boston's defense. They've made things harder on him, much harder
on him than Minnesota did. The matchups are more difficult
for him. But I just I think he can play
a steady or more efficient game, and that's going to
be the difference.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
One of the early comps I made with Luca was
Carmelo Anthony not in great shape, not very good at
the defensive end, and may have trouble playing with others.
There are videos circulating on the internet. I saw one
yesterday Luca is horrific defensively, Like I mean, it's it
is just not really competing. Now. I think he's better
(31:11):
than Melo because it's a three ball league and he's brilliant.
And I also think but our ball handler probably better passer.
But that was always the knock on Melow, which is
struggles to play with others, doesn't really committed the defensive end.
When I watch those Luca clips against the Celtics, now,
is it injury.
Speaker 6 (31:28):
Or yeah, I think the the whatever he's dealing with,
that's part of it. He's never been a great defender, No,
but he's been better over the course of this season, yes,
than he's ever been. And Boston also has enough offensive
players and guys with size who can handle where they
(31:48):
can go at Luca and they that's one of the
things are that's what they have done that Minnesota did
not do. Yeah, but they have the personnel to do that.
So I'm going to put some of the issues that
he's had defensively on where he is physically, but Boston
has made a point of exposing that, so good on
them for that. I really do not like your Carmelo
(32:11):
comparison at all. Though I see it is going to
be Mail's a Hall of Famer. I see the similarities,
but Luca is a much smarter playmaker in involving everybody
and getting things done in terms of being able to
get where they want to go and being three level scorers.
(32:31):
I would compare that, and I do think that Carmelo
is one of those guys who left a lot on
the table in terms of what he could have been.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Oh totally right. Yeah, But I'm not saying it's a
perfect comp but it was when everybody fell in love
with Luca. I said, the conditioning the defense couldn't get
along with Brunton or Porzingis. I said, there's stuff there
that I don't love. You know what.
Speaker 6 (32:53):
This is one element that I agree with in that,
and we see it go back and forth with Luca.
I think Luca is trying to be a better distributor
and teammate.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Because it has been.
Speaker 6 (33:06):
Yeah, but my problem is is when and we saw
it in we saw a lot of it in Game one.
We saw some of it. In game two when things
kind of fall apart or they need a boost, he
becomes very like, I'm going to do it, and it
really kind of will get his numbers and he'll hit
some shots, but it the rest of the team doesn't
(33:29):
play the same way, and that is that's what Mellow
did a lot and would undermine his team.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
So I'm gonna save Jerry West for the end because
I know you have thoughts on that and no, Jerry.
The Dan Hurley situation with the Lakers is interesting. So
there's the whole thing felt a little odd. He was
gonna be on the show today, he's recruiting, He'll be
there tomorrow, here tomorrow. You know, there's the parts of
it that are like, you know, one reporter, Sean said,
(33:59):
it's Jay's job. So I want to start with that.
JJ had no experience. He was a podcaster, and in
order for JJ to work. My take was he better
get a great staff. Take me through what you heard
about it's JJ's job, because now it seems like he's
not in the running. It was that true? Did you
believe it was his job? Why did it erode quickly?
(34:21):
Why did it regress over the course of like four days.
Speaker 6 (34:24):
Yeah, it wasn't his job, but it was what the
Lakers wanted to do if they could put the right
staff around them. Okay, so the staff meant a lot
to the Lakers thousand percent. They were like, we can
see this working, but we have to have the right
guys on the bill.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
So what happened.
Speaker 6 (34:40):
Those guys were not willing to be JJ's caddy. I mean,
James Brigo, Sam Cassel, like, those are the guys that
they were interviewing, and everybody took it as they're interviewing
them for the head coach. They're competing with JJ for
the job. No, the Lakers wanted those guys to be
on the staff supporting JJ because they've got farm experience.
(35:01):
James de Rego actually has head coaching experience in Charlotte,
and those guys, from what I understand, weren't willing to
do it, either because of the role or the money
that was being offered. So they're like, Okay, we need
to pivot, like this this isn't gonna work. What else
can we do?
Speaker 1 (35:16):
So did they pivot to Hurley or did Hurley reach
out because he hadn't signed a contract.
Speaker 6 (35:21):
My understanding is that they pivoted to Hurley because they
found out that Hurley had not signed. They thought he
has the six year, forty eight million. They didn't know
he was available, and they found out, oh, he might
be available now whether Hurley did it with the idea
of I don't like my deal because the deal that
(35:42):
was sitting on his desk that he had not signed
was less than what Bill self is making in Kansas.
I'm Dan Hurley, I've just won back to back championships.
I may be going for a third. I should be
the highest, Like there shouldn't even be a question. I
shouldn't at least be paid on So seltzers ten million
a year, and he was looking at seven and a
(36:04):
half ish yees eighty I think yeah around there.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
So he was looking for a little raise.
Speaker 6 (36:11):
So he was looking for a raise, which at which
I would expect his Like everybody's reporting, he's now signing
six years fifty from what the governor of Connecticut has said,
like he should be. He should be paid on par
with Bill self. I would expect that that deal is
going to end up being ten per He's going to
get that.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
So he he got that.
Speaker 6 (36:29):
Essentially out of the Lakers dalliance. But I do think
that if the Lakers had come correct, if they had
made a can't refuse offer, that they could have got Hurley.
I don't think Hurley was just exploring it and using
(36:49):
it as leverage to get a better deal and was
always planning to go back to Yukon and go after
a third championship. I think he saw the opportunity to
make the kind of contract that he couldn't possibly make
at Yukon. And we've gone back and forth on this,
like people think that, like, well, you're two time champion
(37:10):
and you can go for a third and you can
put yourself in the John Wooden category, like that's bigger
than being the Lakers coach.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Another Lakers coach, I.
Speaker 6 (37:21):
Respectfully disagree. We for all that Hurley has done at Yukon,
Like when it was March Madness, we were talking about Hurley.
Beyond that, nobody's talking about Hurley. As soon as he
became oh, he could be the Lakers head coach. It
took his Q rating to a different place. I know
where the Lakers are, I know the job's not great,
(37:42):
but the fact is, being the head coach of the
Los Angeles Lakers is going to resonate to a greater audience.
It's going to make you more visible then, Yeah, but
however many championships you win in Yukon, let me push back.
Nick Saban was more or visible going to the NFL
than he tain't Like. More visible's great if you're winning.
(38:05):
Understood more visible being fired is not good for the brand, okay,
But but that's what happens after you get there, right Like,
And if you're Dan Hurley, you're thinking, if they give
me enough money and they give me enough time, I
can make that work. You don't have the success that
Dan Hurley has had if you don't believe that no
(38:25):
matter where you go, you can make it work. Because
and he has the track record. He went to Wagner,
they were a losing, losing program. They were a winner
when he left top of the conference, went to Rhode Island,
losing record, turned it around, took him to the top,
and now with Yukon. So if I'm Dan Hurley, the
reason I'm taking the Lakers job is, yeah, I know
(38:47):
what it looks like right now, but if you give
me time, I can turn this into a winner because
I always have.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
So I want to talk about Jerry west I said
he was almost singular. There's certainly in our mean he's
the greatest executive of all time. Of the four best dynasties,
you can argue he created three of them. I think
he played a bigger role in Golden State, where he
said he'd resign if they moved Clay for Kevin Love,
where he told them move off Montelis, Get Get Size,
(39:14):
where he'd embraced Steph very early, where he whispered into
Katie's ear, You're gonna get easier shots out here than
you are with Westbrook. I mean, so I said earlier today,
I'm like, I think Michaels probably viewed as the best player.
I view Jerry is the best executive one a is
pat Riley. That's my worldview on it. Is that inaccurate?
(39:37):
How do you land on Jerry?
Speaker 6 (39:39):
This is why I'm always amazed when people don't put
him in the top three or four all time Lakers.
And it's a combination of what he was as a
player and what he was as an executive. And I mean,
this news is kind of hard for me because Jerry was,
as you said, a singular guy, and you I would
(40:02):
joke about it like I would get on the phone
with him and I'd ask him one question, and I'd
have a lot of questions for him. I'd ask him
one question, and forty five minutes later, I'm waiting to.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Ask my second question. His breadth of knowledge is.
Speaker 6 (40:15):
I mean, he just and it was one of the
things that made him so special as an executive because
he could talk to great players. As a great player,
he never lost he never lost that feel for what
it meant to be a great player, even when he
became an executive and his his going and getting and
(40:39):
at the same time he figured out ways to make
the front office numbers details work. I mean, his his
getting shack from Orlando to the Lakers was no small
feat at that time. That was that was that he
(41:00):
took a lot of heavy lifting. But the other part
was that for all that he did, there was a
humility about him.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
There's no quo. I always felt he never lost there's
a vulnerable I've said this about Tom Brady, considering how
good he looks and how good he's been, there was
always sort of a like like Bill runs the show,
I'm just a quarterback. There is a humility to Jerry.
Now Jerry could be very relentless if you looked at
his childhood. All of our childhood shape our personalities as adults. Sure,
(41:32):
but there was I mean, he stre when he made
that Shack deal. I can remember reading a story where
he said he he got sick. It was such a
big deal, and Shack was regarded as literally an immovable unicorn.
There was no Shack. He made the deal. He felt
for the Bus family, for the city of Los Angeles.
He was so nervous that I guess he got sick
(41:55):
physically well, he.
Speaker 6 (41:57):
I mean, he couldn't watch games. He would get on
the car, get into his car and drive on the
freeways and listen to games because he couldn't stand just
sitting there in the stands watching games. And it looked,
I mean that some of our greatest assets are also
our biggest defects, right, and and and what drove him
(42:17):
and what kind of fueled that humility was this feeling
like if I don't work as hard as I possibly can,
I'm I'm not gonna make it. I'm I'm going to lose,
I'm gonna be I'm gonna not be good enough. And
and it was almost like a paranoia and a and
an obsession to work as hard as he did, and
(42:40):
so that fueled him. But at the time it made
him a little crazy too. I mean he was he
was known as he was known as.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Both the Logo and l Loco.
Speaker 6 (42:50):
He had both nicknames and and lived up to both
of them. But man, what I just a tortured human
being in some ways, but just a genuine I got
to tell you, just between losing Bill and now losing Jerry, like,
those are two guys that were They brought such a
(43:12):
humanity to the league. If you were in the league
and you got a chance to know them. That's what
made the NBA so special, is the fabric of it
and the people that you got to know and who
they were.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
Well, the NFL's always been very corporate. Basketball has been
the artist league's I always feel that basketball, NBA basketball
is similar to international soccer that MESSI may be flawed
and Rinaldo's not perfect, but this is an open canvas.
The ball is yours make art. Football is diagrammed a
(43:46):
lot of practices. It's marching band. Stay on task, that's right,
it's marching band. Basketball is where our great sports artists live.
Same with international soccer. And so because of that, aesthetics
matter yep.
Speaker 6 (44:00):
And personality does too, Yeah, Like the personality of somebody
is visible and informs how they play.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
So a flawed player that I mean for a long time,
Kareem was the best player on the planet, but he
was never really embraced because it was a bit prickly,
Doctor j There was more flavor, there was more color,
there was magic, magic Johnson like, right, So it's like
in basketball, these are artists that can You're gonna spill
(44:29):
some paint, yeah, like right, like the greatest player shoot
forty eight percent. There's a lot of paint to be spilled.
And so when I look at Jerry and I look
at his the logo at Loco, that's part of basketball,
his tough childhood. There's also something to be said about
small state or small town. People who go to big
cities have sort of that intuitive fear like, oh, I'm
(44:52):
a little kid, small town and it drives them. For
Jerry always felt a little West Virginia one.
Speaker 6 (44:57):
Thousand percent without question. Long you could put the suit,
I mean you just take take a look at that,
Like you can put a suit and tie on him,
small town kid, but he's still He's still got that
West Virginia look to him.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
What's interesting about Jerry is a lot of times, as
people age in any industry, you know, the young don't
really listen. Yep, the young, they're disconnected. It's the old guy.
It is fascinating to see the reverence. Michael Kobe, Durant Lebron,
(45:33):
there's a reverence to a mid eighty year old guy,
and I don't know what that is.
Speaker 6 (45:39):
A big part of it was the fact that as
we get older, sometimes we fall into I know it
all and this is the way I've done it, and
this has been my formula for success. And and Jerry
was never that way. Yes, when I would ask a
question in forty five minutes later, but he won it
(46:00):
to know what I knew, and that's often where the
conversation started. He was, as to the very end, was
looking to pick other people's brains about what's going on
and how they evolved. It was an amazing listener, and
he was all He never approached it like when he
would approach great players. He would it wasn't like, let
(46:23):
me tell you how this works. He would ask them
what's going on? And when you have somebody who's accomplished
with Jerry has accomplished, and they want to know first
where you're coming from. Now, guys feel like you're invested
in them as opposed to you're just trying to show
them the ropes. No, you understand that this individual's ropes
(46:47):
might be different than what I've experienced. Let me see
how my knowledge applies to their situations. It's nuanced. But
that was Jerry to the very end.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
Jerry.
Speaker 6 (46:57):
Jerry never thought of himself as the logo, right.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
No, he pushed it back multiple times. He asked Adam
celb and David started to change it.
Speaker 6 (47:06):
Yeah, Well, because he was more like, look, I mean
he never lost that I'm the kid from West Virginia
trying to make it that at his heart was remained
and you know, all of the other stuff didn't change that.
And it was one of the things that made him
so a little crazy and a little endearing. Yeah,
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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