June 14, 2024 • 33 mins
Jason Timpf answers listener questions during an NBA Finals Mailbag. Jason discusses which team from the West would have given Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, and the Boston Celtics the most difficult time in a playoff series (4:30). Later, he discusses why Luka Doncic's defensive efforts have been detrimental to the Mavericks' chances in the Finals (8:45), whether Jaylen Brown has elevated his game to superstar level (15:30), and ranks the 2024 Celtics amongst the previous five NBA champions (23:30).
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The volume. All right, welcome to hoho'said out here at
the volume heavy Thursday, everybody of ball. If you guys
are having a great week, Well, if the Dallas Mavericks
had won last night, we'd be pouring over the film
(00:20):
today talking about all the different ways that Dallas may
or may not be able to tie the series and
just what we expect to happen in Game four. But
that's not what happened. This series has been pretty consistent
throughout the same themes. On both ends of the floor,
Dallas incapable of containing the basketball and staying out of
rotation as Boston picks them apart for high quality rim
attempts and shots at the three point line. And then
(00:41):
on the other end of the floor, the simple adjustment
of putting Jason Tatum on their centers has caused all
of the spacing of their ball screen actions to fall apart,
and Luca hasn't been able to punish the Bigs enough
in switches for it to matter, and so Dallas hasn't
been able to score, and that dynamic has not changed
at any point throughout the series, and so this thing
is over no matter what, even if Dallas goes and
(01:01):
gets Game four off of a hillacious effort and a
lackadaisical one on Boston's front. I think Dallas is done
with I don't think there's any basketball dynamic they can
flip to potentially go on a run and win a
bunch of games in a row. So what we're gonna
do today is we're gonna do a mail bag and
talk about specifically some of the questions you guys have
surrounding the NBA Finals. You guys are the job. Before
(01:22):
we get started, subscribe to Hoops and I YouTube channel
so you don't miss any more of our videos. Follow
me on Twitter at Underscore Jason Lts. You guys don't
miss show announcements, Go forget about a podcast feed wherever
you get your podcast under Hoops Tonight, and then keep
dropping mail back questions in the YouTube comments so we
can keep hitting them throughout the rest of the off
season and the last min at least before we get started,
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All right, let's talk some basketball. For first question, is
there any team in the West that would have matched
up well against Boston in the finals. So, as we're
looking at this, remember one of the biggest lessons that
(03:07):
I learned in this particular postseason run is to look
at things more through the concept of the individual matchup
rather than what the teams look like in a vacuum. Right,
So like, even as we just look at Dallas, they
beat the shit out of Minnesota because Minnesota can't handle
their rim protection, right, Boston has a counter for their
rim protection through five out spacing. It causes their defense
(03:29):
to fall apart, even on the other end of the floor.
Like because Minnesota guarded Dallas traditionally, and because Jada McDaniels
was too skinny to guard Luca, Luca picked them apart,
come into this series bigger, more physical defenders. The adjustment
from Jason Tatum, all of a sudden, Dallas's offense falls apart.
(03:49):
So it's very much a matchup oriented type of league.
So with that being the case, teams that would have
caused Boston more issues. Teams that can guard on the
perimeter at multi positions. So teams like Oklahoma City now
this year, I thought they were too young and I
don't think they would have been able to beat a
team like Boston. But the team like Oklahoma City in
the future seasons is a team that I think could
(04:10):
give Boston some issues. Minnesota. I don't think that I
would have picked Minnesota against Boston. It would have been
really close. I would have needed to go back and
look at the film, but chances are I would have
ended up picking Boston. Who knows, But they have a
depth of perimeter defense personnel. They could run lineups with
Anthony Edwards, Nikhil, Alexander Walker, Jade McDaniels, Kyle Anderson, Rudy
Gobert where all five guys can switch and guard on
(04:32):
the perimeter against multiple different types of archetypes of players.
On the other end of the floor, we saw what
Anthony Edwards did to Denver and Phoenix because he can
beat everyone off the dribble and get into the paint.
They ran into rim protection against Dallas. That was a
problem against Boston, especially with Porzingis injury issues. They don't
really have a lot of rim protection beyond Porzingis, and
so that would have been an interesting matchup to see
(04:53):
if Minnesota could have had some success. That said, I
think the only team I would have picked against Boston
outright would have Ben Denver. And the main reason why
is they have some defensive weak points as well. Guys
like Jamal Murray, guys like Michael Porter, Junior Jokic did
not have a particularly good defensive season this year. However,
their game plan discipline, even from their lesser defensive players,
(05:13):
including the three I just mentioned, so much better than
what we saw from Luca. Like Luca, we're gonna talk
about it in a minute. He was beyond destructive on
the defensive end in this series. He wasn't even like, oh,
he's got this athletic disadvantage that's causing problems, Like no,
he literally wasn't focused, he wasn't playing hard, he was
complaining like it. It was an abomination what Luca did
(05:34):
defensively in this postseason run. I think that Denver would
have been a little bit more locked in, a lot
more locked in down the roster in terms of their
commitment to the defensive end, and then on the offensive end,
Denver presents an issue for Boston that Boston can't solve,
Whereas Boston could solve the Luca problem by putting Tatum
on the center, and because they have so many physical
(05:56):
perimeter defenders, they were able to have some success against Luca.
Right with Nikola Jokic and his just complete unguardability underneath
the basket. By any player that Boston has wearing green,
it would have put Boston in a predicament where they
would have consistently been in rotation in giving up quality looks, which,
by the way, we saw in the regular season when
Denver beat Boston twice. There's a physical imposition element too
(06:19):
that can lead to some shooting variants. I will say
this though, after watching this series, would I feel more
like Boston would have had a better chance to beat Denver.
I would have picked Denver by the ever so slightest
of margins, and I certainly think Boston would have had
a chance. But again, looking forward out of the West,
it's gonna have to be teams that can really guard
(06:39):
on the perimeter. If it's a Clippers team that stays
healthy and actually has Kawhi playing at a top five
level that would be an interesting threat to Boston. Oklahoma City,
as I mentioned, obviously, the Denver team that I was
just talking about Memphis is a team that might have
had some more perimeter defensive personnel to have some success.
But that said, Boston I think was clearly better than
(07:01):
everybody in the Western Conference aside from Denver. As I
talked about going into the postseason run, the only team
that I ranked over Boston the entire season was Denver,
and that is the only team I would have picked
against them. What are your thoughts about Nick's comparison of
Luca's defensive performance with that of Steph in twenty sixteen.
I'm assuming this is Nick right, but I'm not certain
is there value in separating outcomes and effort while judging defense.
(07:25):
Here's the thing. Steph has physical limitations. He's small, and
when he would get attacked and there would be some
issues there, it would be like a guy overpowers him,
or Kyrie Irving just hits a tough step back jumper
over the top of him. In the twenty sixteen finals,
very rarely in Steph's career. Was it malaise or just
(07:48):
not giving a shit that caused his team to have
issues with him on the defensive end of the floor.
What Luca did is an entirely different type of destructive
defensive behind behavior. Okay, there's been so much talk about like, oh, well,
Luca has so much to do. Oh well, what about
Luca's knee. All of this, We're not talking about him
(08:10):
being Jalen Brown. We're not asking him to pick up
the other team's play best player full court and to
fight over the top of ball screens and to be
you know, banging bodies on the glass all night long.
That's not what we're talking about. When you are constructing
a team defense, there is a minimal level of participation
that you have to hit in order for the construct
(08:31):
of the team defense to work. And Luca was failing
to reach that level, not even coming close to reaching
that level. Like there's a lot of focus on the blowbys,
and the blowbys are bad. But you know what, that,
to me is almost the least frustrating part about it, because, yeah,
we want Luca to get better physically, we want him
to take better care of his body, we want him
to be healthier, we want him to be able to
(08:53):
contain the basketball more that goes without saying, but Luca
is never going to be a lateral speed demon. He's
just not like he's gonna be to have to do better,
and I'm sure he will over the course of his career.
My bigger issue with it was just the simple attention
to detail. When you're flopping on three point jump shots
and falling on the ground and complaining at the refs
(09:15):
while Boston's running the other way, you're actively sabotaging your
transition defense and making it impossible for your team to
contain when they're trying to sprint back. In those situations,
when you're guarding Sam Hauser in the strong side corner
and you're literally several steps off of him, just not
paying attention to where Tatum can just throw a simple
(09:35):
swing pass to sam Hauser one pass away in the
strong side corner and he can knock down a three
in your face. You're not doing your job when you're
just standing around the elbow extended as Drew Holliday is
sprinting in and out of the lane, grabbing multiple offensive
rebounds on the same possession, including a putback, while you're
standing on your heels doing nothing on the defensive glass.
(09:57):
There are dozens and dozens of examples over the course
of this NBA Finals run, in particular, where Luca wasn't
just bad on the defensive end, he was embarrassingly disengaged.
He was downright damaging to Dallas' capability to even put
out a coherent defense. It was no exaggeration, the worst
(10:19):
defensive performance by a superstar that I have ever seen
in the NBA Finals. So, like, again, when we talk
about criticism and there's I'm generally of the opinion that
guys that have a ton of offensive responsibility do need
to have lighter defensive workloads. I think that sort of
thing matters. I'm generally of that opinion that said there's
(10:40):
a certain minimum level they have to reach, and Luca
didn't even come close to reaching that. I thought it
was completely unacceptable, And like even comparing it to like
Steph in twenty sixteen and some of the other limited
defenders in NBA history, to me, it just doesn't doesn't
even resemble it. Because say what you want about Steph
and his limitations, he was trying, he was doing his
(11:01):
job within the scheme. Luca couldn't even be bothered to
do that in this playoff series when evaluating players. This
next question is kind of related to that. When evaluating players,
do you think individual offense and individual defense should be
weight on the same plane. Is it fifty to fifty
or should we put more emphasis on one over the
other when evaluating individual basketball players. So, I do think
(11:22):
that you can't rank at fifty to fifty. I think
that you have to put additional weight on the offensive end.
And the main reason why is it is a lot
easier to scheme an effective defense with a limited offensive
player as a star than it is to on the
other end of the floor try to scheme or coach
(11:42):
up an effective offense when your superstar is a limited
offensive player. For instance, Like let's just make it a
very basic example. Let's say jokichen Janis Jannis is maybe
the best defensive player in the world, but if you
just ranked his offensive skill set, he's not even in
the top five, right, He's somewhere far below that. Right.
(12:03):
If you looked at Nikola Jokic, he's the best offensive
player in the league, but he's a mediocre to slightly
above average defensive player depending on how hard he's trying.
In that particular season, I thought he was pretty bad
in this postseason run. I thought he's pretty good last year, right.
Who is it easier to build a championship team around.
I think it's easier to build a championship team around
(12:24):
Yokis because you can construct a role for Jokic to
be an effective defensive player, and we've seen the Denver
defend at a championship level. Right. But on the other end,
Jokic just can make anything work, right. He can create
something out of nothing on the offensive end, better than
basically every player in the league at this point. Looking
(12:45):
at Yannis, you could get a league average player in
construct a role for him at the power forward spot
where he's a relatively effective defensive player, But you can't
turn around and do that on the offensive end of
the floor, right. Like Giannis's offensive limitations have shown to
the surface in the postseason often, they showed up in
twenty twenty three when like, yes, I know he dealt
(13:07):
with injuries in the Miami Series, but once again close
games in the half court, Jimmy was just way better
than him. Right, going back to the seasons before he
won the title, going back to twenty twenty, going back
to twenty nineteen, it's been a consistent issue through Jannis's
career that in the half court when things slow down,
his offensive limitations are harder to cope with as a
staff and as a franchise than defensive limitations, right, and
(13:30):
so again, like I think it's all relative, Like Luca's
defensive limitations are so bad that there's a conversation to
be made that Giannis deserves to be over Luca simply
because at least he's functional on both ends of the
floor in a way that Luca is not. Right, But yeah,
for me, it's just I've probably put it at about
like seventy thirty in favor of offense, because I think
(13:52):
a super high powered offensive player can kind of overcome
everything in a way that is super high powered defensive
player that's limited on the offensive end cannot has Jalen
Brown now elevated to the Devin Booker tier of players
with his playoff performance this year offensively and defensively, He's
been paramount for Boston, where his stock has to be
up there as a potential Top twelve guy. Love the
(14:14):
show and love the Two Sons Podcast. Stay Ambitious. The
Two Sons Podcast is my podcast that I cover like
Star Wars, Game with Thrones, basically all television and cinematic media.
We just had an episode dropped yesterday on The Acolyte,
episode three. You can see the logo right there. It's
on YouTube, on two Sons podcast, It's on your podcast
(14:34):
feeds under two Sons Podcast. Make sure you guys get
over there and check that out and thank you for
supporting both of those shows. As far as Jalen Brown goes,
I talked about this with Colin Coward last night. Like,
to me, the conversation around the Jays has gone down
some weird paths in this postseason run. I think it's
less to do with Jason Tatum's decline and he's had
just a really bad jump shooting postseason, which has been
(14:55):
a kind of a continuation of an issue that's been
kind of propagating over the course of the last two
or three seasons. He's at the third consecutive postseason run
where he's down year over year from the previous year
as a jump shooter, and so that's like a whole other,
separate issue. But really just Jaylen Brown's gone up a level.
Jaylen Brown to me, when I'm ranking superstars, there's like
the top tier guys, which to me is literally just
(15:17):
like Jokic, Luca Yannis, maybe Embiid and Shae depending on
who you ask. Those are like the fringe guys in
that group. But like those are like the three top
tier guys. Then there's like the second tier guys, which
are like all the superstars that are just not quite
at that level. Right that's Embiid, Shay Tatum, Lebron, Anthony Davis,
like Jimmy Butler. There's just a bunch of guys in
(15:39):
that group right well. To me, Jaylen Brown was on
the tier below that coming into this season, and right
around halfway through the season, he really started to turn
it up defensively. He started guarding the other team's best
player every single night. He was really committing on that
end of the floor. I think it was part of
his Like his scoring went down this season just by
virtue of all the talent that they brought in, and
I think he just trying to find a way to
(16:01):
stay engaged with the team. But between that his development
is a pull up jump shooter. I talked about this
with Luca or with Luca with Colin last night. I
talked about how like it must have been really rewarding
for Jalen to hit those big mid range jump shots
down the stretch last night. He's been awesome in the
clutch in this final series. I thought he had that
huge driving left handed layup by Maxi Kliba in Game two.
(16:22):
He hit the two big jump shots last night, like
he's just been he's just been playing at that superstar
level there that's just below the true top tier guys,
and I've just been really impressed by him. And that's
the talent influx. The talent influx is, like you know,
even with porzingis out, it doesn't change the fact that
they have two guys that are in that second tier
of superstars, and that's just really difficult to deal with.
(16:45):
I mean, you guys know I'm a Lakers fan. Think
about how optimistic I've been about the Lakers consistently and
why I've been super optimistic about the Lakers consistently. Why
Because they have two guys that are in that second
tier superstars in Lebron James and Anthony Davis. Boston has
that too, in addition to Drew Holliday, Derek White, Al Horford,
Porzingis when he's healthy. I've been really impressed by Howser
(17:06):
and Pritchard and their contributions in this postseason run. But yeah,
the rise of Jayalen Brown has infinitely increased the ceiling
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(19:06):
How would you rank the last five NBA champions? Specifically
talking about the matchup flexibility on a year to year basis,
So this was an interesting one. Obviously, we're going to
be moving forward in this question assuming that Boston wins
the title. Obviously it's not completely over. But I personally think,
even juxtaposed with other three to zero series, I don't
(19:26):
think this is one that Dallas can turn around. So
I do believe that Boston will close it out in
no more than five games. So for me, again, as
I mentioned before, I think that this Boston Celtics team
is a little less dominant than it looks on the surface.
And the reasoning is pretty simple. The Eastern Conference at
the bottom was atrocious and so that inflated win totals
(19:48):
to a certain extent. To put it simply, you play
thirty games against the West, you play fifty two games
against your own conference. That is going to make it
so the Eastern Conference win totals are higher. There's a
lot of talk about like, oh, this team out West
only had forty six wins. O, this team out West
only had forty seven, forty eight wins, and it's like, yeah,
they're just way more good teams. They can't all have
fifty five wins. That's just not how it works, right. So,
(20:10):
like the win totals, I think for Boston were a
little inflated. There were five good teams in the East,
in my opinion, and four of them ended up in
the other end of the bracket. They all beat the
hell out of each other to where Indiana, which was
probably like I was ranking those teams on the other
end of the bracket, like Indiana very against the healthy
Bucks and the Sixers, and that Knicks team in the Pacers,
(20:32):
I'd probably put the Pacers at the bottom of that
list when they're all healthy, right, They beat the Bucks
because the Bucks weren't healthy, and by the time that
they got to the Knicks, the Knicks had completely fallen apart, right,
So like they faced this injured limited Pacers team in
the conference finals, and then out of all of the
teams that they could have faced out West, I think
Dallas was no higher than third out of those teams
(20:53):
in terms of who was best equipped to deal with Boston.
And so it's a bona fide NBA championship. They are
one of the more dominant champions in terms of on
paper success. However, a couple of specific things, like they
do not have that true alpha dog apex superstar, so
that would be something that I would hold them back
compared to some other champions. So let's talk about the
(21:15):
list here, and so I excitded this to six. You
asked me for the top five, I'm gonna go to
six because that's the delineation after after Kevin Durant and
Steph Curry were no longer teamed up with each other
post twenty eighteen, right or twenty nineteen, right. So we
have the twenty nineteen Raptors, twenty twenty Lakers, twenty twenty
one Bucks, twenty twenty two Warriors, twenty three Nuggets, twenty
(21:36):
four Celtics. So at number six, I put the twenty
twenty one Bucks. I think that Giannis in that twenty
twenty one season was a lesser superstar than some of
the other superstars that we've seen, like like Lebron in
twenty twenty or Yokic and twenty twenty three, Steph in
twenty twenty two, and Kawhi in twenty nineteen. I think
he was behind all of those guys in terms of
(21:57):
where the level he was playing at in that particular
postseason run that team, also in terms of just top
to bottom talent, in terms of the quality of teams
they beat along the way like you beat the Trey
Young Hawks in the conference final and the Devin Booker
Chris Paul Suns in the NBA Finals. So I put
the Bucks at the bottom of that list. Number five.
I put the twenty nineteen Raptors similar to the honest thing.
(22:19):
I think Kawhi is beneath Steph Jokich and Lebron in
terms of like that top tier superstar power. That team
was amazing defensively at a big look and a small look,
an awesome home court advantage, really really good team, but
I don't think they're better than any of the teams
above them. Twenty twenty two Warriors I put in at fourth.
The main reason why I have that team down further
(22:41):
is like their second best player and third best player
were basically like Jordan Poole and Andrew Wiggins in some order.
Probably I go Andrew Wiggins too, and then like you know,
Jordan Poole, then Draymond Green obviously was amazing defensively in
that postseason run. Klay Thompson had a huge fingerprint on
the NBA Finals with his defense on Jalen Like. It
was an excellent team that overachieved and won a title
(23:05):
with one of the all time great players in NBA
history in Steph Curry leading the way. But in terms
of just sheer force of talent that that was not
something that that Golden State team brought to the table.
So I have them a little bit lower at three.
I have the twenty twenty four Celtics, and the main case,
there is just overwhelming force of talent. Right you have
(23:26):
five players in the open market that would fetch thirty
plus million Al Horford if he was a free agent
tomorrow and would probably be in that like fifteen to
twenty million range. Like, they just have an absurdity of talent.
They have an excellent coach in Joe Mizzulu, who really
won me over in a big way in this postseason run.
It's been really fascinating just to get a better exposure
(23:48):
to the attempts that he's made this year to try
to shape the Celtics into a team oriented offense that
trusts each other. In Hunt's quality looks, they this is
a Celtics team that I didn't really enjoy watching that
much during the regular season because of their reticence to
really buy into Missoula Ball and what he was asking
them to do. And I actually genuinely enjoy watching the
(24:10):
Celtics now in a way that I didn't earlier because
they're playing a brand of basketball that I believe is
championship worthy. They've won me over at a big way.
Jalen Brown, I think has ascended into that second tier
of superstars. Awesome team one limitations, they just don't have
an apex star. Number two. I put the twenty twenty
three Denver Nuggets. I think that Nikola Jokic was and
(24:31):
still is the best player in the world. We'll get
into some of those specifics here. I think there's some
of it in this mail bag, but definitely over the offseason.
But the one limitation there why I have them below
the Lakers is their second best player, obviously was Jamal Murray,
who in my opinion is in that like fifteen to
twenty range. A lot of like really well fitting players,
(24:53):
but most of that team came down to Nikola jokicch
and what he could do in his unbelievable level of dominance.
He's why I have twenty one the twenty twenty Lakers
at one. And look, I get it, I'm biased. I'm
a Lakers fan. I'm a Lebron James fan. And by
the way, if you guys disagree, I just want to
see your rankings. Drop your rankings in the comments. You
guys know I go through and read the comments, So
drop your individual rankings on the teams and put your
(25:15):
reasoning and I'll read through it. And I want to
hear your guys take. My take is simple. The twenty
twenty Lakers were the only team in that group that
had two top tier superstars. Anthony Davis. Say what you
want about him, say what you want about what he's become,
say what you want about what he used to be.
But in that twenty twenty season, he was unquestionably one
(25:36):
of the five best players in the league. He had
this like deadly mid range ISO pull up jump shot attack.
He legitimately could space the four from the three point
line and hit a game winning three point shot in
that playoff series. He was a dominant low post force,
and he's the best defensive player in the world who
had one of the best defensive playoff runs that we've
ever seen. In Lebron James in twenty twenty was the
(25:59):
best player in the world. My opinion, should have one
MVP that was the year everyone bought into Giannis's advanced
metrics just because they kicked the shit out of everybody
in a bad Eastern conference. That team had, in my opinion,
the best player in the world in Lebron and the
fourth best player in the world in Anthony Davis, while
also being a elite defensive team down the roster. There
(26:19):
is no other team in that list. Denver did not
have two top five players. This Boston team does not
have two top five players. That Warriors team did not
have two top five players. Neither did the Rafters, neither
did the Bucks. And so that's my case. And so
what I want you guys to do. If you're arguing
with me and you're saying, Jason, you're an idiot, you're
a biased Lakers fan, why do you have the Lakers
at one? Tell me what of those other teams conquers
(26:42):
the fact that the Lakers had two of the top
five players in the world during that span. That's where
I think is a good spot to kind of start
that debate. But we can get into that more in
some mail bags down the line. Next question, even though
the NBA has a lot of young, talented players, why
does it not feel as exciting. I thought this was
pretty simple. The one. The Eastern Conference playoff picture was
just really bad. This year two we have had back
(27:05):
to back seasons. This is crazy. I had to go
back and look at it. Back to back seasons where
in the conference finals the team jumped up three to
zero in both conferences. Miami went up three to ohero
on Boston. Last year, Denver went up three to oho
on the Lakers. Dallas went up three zero in Minnesota.
This year, Boston went up three to zero on the Pacers.
Then we go into the NBA Finals. Denver kicked the
shit out of Miami last year in Boston's kicking the
(27:27):
shit out of Dallas. So for back to back seasons,
the second half of the playoff picture has just been garbage,
and so I think that that has kind of taken
some of the excitement out of it. But I think
a lot of that has to do with matchups, A
lot of that has to do with health. So with
the team the league getting deeper and more and more
good teams entering the picture, I do think that we'll
have more exciting playoff runs down the line. Do you
(27:49):
think the finals MVP is locked in for Jaln Brown
or depending on if it's a sweep in how each
JT and him perform, could it defer to Jason Tatum
love the show, keep it up. So I think Jalen
Brown is the clear Finals MVP to this point. He's
been better statistically. He has the two most iconic plays
of the series, those two one handed dunks that he
(28:09):
had even on the block of PJ. Washington in transition
at the end of Game two was Derek White was
in there, but so was Jalen Brown. He hit three
of the biggest shots in the series, that driving left
handed layup on maxic Cleiba, as well as the pull
up jump shots that he hit last night. I think
Jalen Brown is clearly the Finals MVP to this point. Obviously,
if JB goes for twelve in Game four and Tatum
(28:31):
goes for forty and it's a super close game, you
could see potentially as swinging the other way. But to me,
Jalen Brown's clearly the Finals MVP at this point. As
far as the other element to it, which is like
Jason Tatum's responsibilities, which are he could double team more. Obviously,
him being on the center is the primary defensive function
(28:51):
that has caused Dallas' offense to fall apart. I do
think Tatum's impact in this series is underrated. He's been
better than what you would think look at the box score.
That said, Jalen Brown also has done a lot of
stuff in the details. He's been one of the main
guys getting them in rotation Defensively, he's been the guy
that's been picking up Luca full court and applying all
that ball pressure and doing all that work. Like to me,
(29:14):
even though Jason Tatum has a lot beneath the box
score that he's been doing well, it's not enough to
make up for the gap. And I think Jalen Brown
deserves to win finals. MVP. Do you think the Celtics
can continue to win championships if Tatum isn't playing at
a top five level, because it's pretty clear that he
won't reach that top tier as long as those five
guys are together, even just Horford and with those four guys, yeah,
(29:35):
forget about it. Let's just take the center position and
position out of it. As long as Eric White, Jalen Brown,
Jason Tatum, and Drew Holliday are together, I think that
they're going to have a really good chance to win.
I agree with Colin last night he said he said
that the Celtics team is too weird to like win
three or four in a row. I agree with that,
But they're too talented to not win at least one
and to be in the picture every year. And if
(29:57):
they're in the picture every year, all takes is an
injury here, favorable matchup there to get a win. And
so I think if someone asked me, is it more
likely than not that Boston wins another one in the
next two seasons, I'd say yes, I think it's more
likely than not that Boston wins another one at some
point in the next two seasons. They're durable, they're young,
they're athletic, they just they check so many boxes. They're
(30:18):
just gonna be in the picture. That said every team
that won the championship over the last six years. Do
you guys remember Nuggets fans last year all summer long,
how confident and arrogant they were. Remember Warriors fans the
year before, Remember Bucks fans the year before that, Remember
Lakers fans. I mean, we're still arrogant, you know what
I mean? So like we like you got to remember that,
like every team that hoists the trophy thinks they're the
(30:39):
team that figured it out. They're about to go on
a run. Boston, Actually I do think has a chance
to win multiple so does Denver. But we found out
pretty quickly that it was kind of a flash and
a pan thing with that Warriors team and with that
Bucks team. Right, so something to keep in mind. Let's see,
we'll do one more and then we'll get out of here. Hey, Jason,
love the work you've been doing. You've really made me
fall in love with the game again. My question is
did this year's playoffs affect how you look at future
(31:00):
playoff series? And if it did, how so? So this
has been and we're going to do a deeper version
of this right after the NBA Finals end. It'll probably
be one of the early videos we do next week
every year. If those are guys who followed the show,
I do like a five biggest lessons I learned. But
if I had to give like a quick elevator pitch
on it, it's pretty simple to me. I do think
it's important to run five out offense. You guys who
(31:22):
have followed the show for a while know that I
used to be a huge proponent, not a huge proponent,
but a defender of that four out kind of brute
force type of attack. But when you have the four
out brute force kind of attack, I think you need
multiple physically imposing players for that to work. And I
think that one of the things that's happened is Dallas
has been reliant a lot on pull up jump shooting
(31:43):
because of this adjustment that Boston's made, and it's kind
of stagnated things. It's made the role players play poorly.
Kyrie and Luca haven't been able to hit enough of
them right. And so I think teams that have more
ball in player movement that keep all five players involved
just have some more resilience when they get to the
later levels of the playoffs. So, like to me, ideally
you want to run a five out offense with five
(32:03):
offensive threats. They don't all have to be shooters, but
they all need to be offensive threats in some way,
shape or form, even if it's just like a screener
and cutter. Right. But I think that that's an important
piece that I'd look at, Like, I think that that's
an important lesson to learn, is that teams that run
five out multiple players of multiple threats, lots of ball
and player movement on the other end of the floor. Again,
this is something that I've always believed but I think
(32:26):
has been hammered home in a big way in this postseason.
Defensive versatility. You have to be able to guard multiple ways.
If you can load up on a team to guard,
that's great, But you better be able to guard a
team that spreads you out as well, a team that
can test your perimeter defense and test your ability to
contain in rotation. So next year, when we see a
team that has a great defensive rating that loads up
the paint and drop coverage and uses the low man
(32:48):
and loads up the strong side, but they have multiple
weak perimeter defensive points, just something to keep in mind
as we go into the postseason. We'll get into way
more detail about that when we get into this summer.
As always, I appreciate you guys for participating in the
mail bag and for supporting the show. We're gonna be
back tomorrow night, no calling tomorrow, just me live. After
the final buzzer of Game four. I will see you
(33:10):
guys though the volume
The volume. All right, welcome to hoho'said out here at
the volume heavy Thursday, everybody of ball. If you guys
are having a great week, Well, if the Dallas Mavericks
had won last night, we'd be pouring over the film
(00:20):
today talking about all the different ways that Dallas may
or may not be able to tie the series and
just what we expect to happen in Game four. But
that's not what happened. This series has been pretty consistent
throughout the same themes. On both ends of the floor,
Dallas incapable of containing the basketball and staying out of
rotation as Boston picks them apart for high quality rim
attempts and shots at the three point line. And then
(00:41):
on the other end of the floor, the simple adjustment
of putting Jason Tatum on their centers has caused all
of the spacing of their ball screen actions to fall apart,
and Luca hasn't been able to punish the Bigs enough
in switches for it to matter, and so Dallas hasn't
been able to score, and that dynamic has not changed
at any point throughout the series, and so this thing
is over no matter what, even if Dallas goes and
(01:01):
gets Game four off of a hillacious effort and a
lackadaisical one on Boston's front. I think Dallas is done
with I don't think there's any basketball dynamic they can
flip to potentially go on a run and win a
bunch of games in a row. So what we're gonna
do today is we're gonna do a mail bag and
talk about specifically some of the questions you guys have
surrounding the NBA Finals. You guys are the job. Before
(01:22):
we get started, subscribe to Hoops and I YouTube channel
so you don't miss any more of our videos. Follow
me on Twitter at Underscore Jason Lts. You guys don't
miss show announcements, Go forget about a podcast feed wherever
you get your podcast under Hoops Tonight, and then keep
dropping mail back questions in the YouTube comments so we
can keep hitting them throughout the rest of the off
season and the last min at least before we get started,
I want to talk to you guys about game time.
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good picture of what my seats were before I showed
up to the arena. It was a great experience. I
highly recommend it to you guys, And as fun as
it is watching these games on TV, there's nothing like
getting out in person to watch our favorite NBA stars
(02:05):
playing in this type of intensity, in these types of environments,
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maybe there's a second one. We'll see if Dallas can
extend the series heading to Monday back in Boston. But
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All right, let's talk some basketball. For first question, is
there any team in the West that would have matched
up well against Boston in the finals. So, as we're
looking at this, remember one of the biggest lessons that
(03:07):
I learned in this particular postseason run is to look
at things more through the concept of the individual matchup
rather than what the teams look like in a vacuum. Right,
So like, even as we just look at Dallas, they
beat the shit out of Minnesota because Minnesota can't handle
their rim protection, right, Boston has a counter for their
rim protection through five out spacing. It causes their defense
(03:29):
to fall apart, even on the other end of the floor.
Like because Minnesota guarded Dallas traditionally, and because Jada McDaniels
was too skinny to guard Luca, Luca picked them apart,
come into this series bigger, more physical defenders. The adjustment
from Jason Tatum, all of a sudden, Dallas's offense falls apart.
(03:49):
So it's very much a matchup oriented type of league.
So with that being the case, teams that would have
caused Boston more issues. Teams that can guard on the
perimeter at multi positions. So teams like Oklahoma City now
this year, I thought they were too young and I
don't think they would have been able to beat a
team like Boston. But the team like Oklahoma City in
the future seasons is a team that I think could
(04:10):
give Boston some issues. Minnesota. I don't think that I
would have picked Minnesota against Boston. It would have been
really close. I would have needed to go back and
look at the film, but chances are I would have
ended up picking Boston. Who knows, But they have a
depth of perimeter defense personnel. They could run lineups with
Anthony Edwards, Nikhil, Alexander Walker, Jade McDaniels, Kyle Anderson, Rudy
Gobert where all five guys can switch and guard on
(04:32):
the perimeter against multiple different types of archetypes of players.
On the other end of the floor, we saw what
Anthony Edwards did to Denver and Phoenix because he can
beat everyone off the dribble and get into the paint.
They ran into rim protection against Dallas. That was a
problem against Boston, especially with Porzingis injury issues. They don't
really have a lot of rim protection beyond Porzingis, and
so that would have been an interesting matchup to see
(04:53):
if Minnesota could have had some success. That said, I
think the only team I would have picked against Boston
outright would have Ben Denver. And the main reason why
is they have some defensive weak points as well. Guys
like Jamal Murray, guys like Michael Porter, Junior Jokic did
not have a particularly good defensive season this year. However,
their game plan discipline, even from their lesser defensive players,
(05:13):
including the three I just mentioned, so much better than
what we saw from Luca. Like Luca, we're gonna talk
about it in a minute. He was beyond destructive on
the defensive end in this series. He wasn't even like, oh,
he's got this athletic disadvantage that's causing problems, Like no,
he literally wasn't focused, he wasn't playing hard, he was
complaining like it. It was an abomination what Luca did
(05:34):
defensively in this postseason run. I think that Denver would
have been a little bit more locked in, a lot
more locked in down the roster in terms of their
commitment to the defensive end, and then on the offensive end,
Denver presents an issue for Boston that Boston can't solve,
Whereas Boston could solve the Luca problem by putting Tatum
on the center, and because they have so many physical
(05:56):
perimeter defenders, they were able to have some success against Luca.
Right with Nikola Jokic and his just complete unguardability underneath
the basket. By any player that Boston has wearing green,
it would have put Boston in a predicament where they
would have consistently been in rotation in giving up quality looks, which,
by the way, we saw in the regular season when
Denver beat Boston twice. There's a physical imposition element too
(06:19):
that can lead to some shooting variants. I will say
this though, after watching this series, would I feel more
like Boston would have had a better chance to beat Denver.
I would have picked Denver by the ever so slightest
of margins, and I certainly think Boston would have had
a chance. But again, looking forward out of the West,
it's gonna have to be teams that can really guard
(06:39):
on the perimeter. If it's a Clippers team that stays
healthy and actually has Kawhi playing at a top five
level that would be an interesting threat to Boston. Oklahoma City,
as I mentioned, obviously, the Denver team that I was
just talking about Memphis is a team that might have
had some more perimeter defensive personnel to have some success.
But that said, Boston I think was clearly better than
(07:01):
everybody in the Western Conference aside from Denver. As I
talked about going into the postseason run, the only team
that I ranked over Boston the entire season was Denver,
and that is the only team I would have picked
against them. What are your thoughts about Nick's comparison of
Luca's defensive performance with that of Steph in twenty sixteen.
I'm assuming this is Nick right, but I'm not certain
is there value in separating outcomes and effort while judging defense.
(07:25):
Here's the thing. Steph has physical limitations. He's small, and
when he would get attacked and there would be some
issues there, it would be like a guy overpowers him,
or Kyrie Irving just hits a tough step back jumper
over the top of him. In the twenty sixteen finals,
very rarely in Steph's career. Was it malaise or just
(07:48):
not giving a shit that caused his team to have
issues with him on the defensive end of the floor.
What Luca did is an entirely different type of destructive
defensive behind behavior. Okay, there's been so much talk about like, oh, well,
Luca has so much to do. Oh well, what about
Luca's knee. All of this, We're not talking about him
(08:10):
being Jalen Brown. We're not asking him to pick up
the other team's play best player full court and to
fight over the top of ball screens and to be
you know, banging bodies on the glass all night long.
That's not what we're talking about. When you are constructing
a team defense, there is a minimal level of participation
that you have to hit in order for the construct
(08:31):
of the team defense to work. And Luca was failing
to reach that level, not even coming close to reaching
that level. Like there's a lot of focus on the blowbys,
and the blowbys are bad. But you know what, that,
to me is almost the least frustrating part about it, because, yeah,
we want Luca to get better physically, we want him
to take better care of his body, we want him
to be healthier, we want him to be able to
(08:53):
contain the basketball more that goes without saying, but Luca
is never going to be a lateral speed demon. He's
just not like he's gonna be to have to do better,
and I'm sure he will over the course of his career.
My bigger issue with it was just the simple attention
to detail. When you're flopping on three point jump shots
and falling on the ground and complaining at the refs
(09:15):
while Boston's running the other way, you're actively sabotaging your
transition defense and making it impossible for your team to
contain when they're trying to sprint back. In those situations,
when you're guarding Sam Hauser in the strong side corner
and you're literally several steps off of him, just not
paying attention to where Tatum can just throw a simple
(09:35):
swing pass to sam Hauser one pass away in the
strong side corner and he can knock down a three
in your face. You're not doing your job when you're
just standing around the elbow extended as Drew Holliday is
sprinting in and out of the lane, grabbing multiple offensive
rebounds on the same possession, including a putback, while you're
standing on your heels doing nothing on the defensive glass.
(09:57):
There are dozens and dozens of examples over the course
of this NBA Finals run, in particular, where Luca wasn't
just bad on the defensive end, he was embarrassingly disengaged.
He was downright damaging to Dallas' capability to even put
out a coherent defense. It was no exaggeration, the worst
(10:19):
defensive performance by a superstar that I have ever seen
in the NBA Finals. So, like, again, when we talk
about criticism and there's I'm generally of the opinion that
guys that have a ton of offensive responsibility do need
to have lighter defensive workloads. I think that sort of
thing matters. I'm generally of that opinion that said there's
(10:40):
a certain minimum level they have to reach, and Luca
didn't even come close to reaching that. I thought it
was completely unacceptable, And like even comparing it to like
Steph in twenty sixteen and some of the other limited
defenders in NBA history, to me, it just doesn't doesn't
even resemble it. Because say what you want about Steph
and his limitations, he was trying, he was doing his
(11:01):
job within the scheme. Luca couldn't even be bothered to
do that in this playoff series when evaluating players. This
next question is kind of related to that. When evaluating players,
do you think individual offense and individual defense should be
weight on the same plane. Is it fifty to fifty
or should we put more emphasis on one over the
other when evaluating individual basketball players. So, I do think
(11:22):
that you can't rank at fifty to fifty. I think
that you have to put additional weight on the offensive end.
And the main reason why is it is a lot
easier to scheme an effective defense with a limited offensive
player as a star than it is to on the
other end of the floor try to scheme or coach
(11:42):
up an effective offense when your superstar is a limited
offensive player. For instance, Like let's just make it a
very basic example. Let's say jokichen Janis Jannis is maybe
the best defensive player in the world, but if you
just ranked his offensive skill set, he's not even in
the top five, right, He's somewhere far below that. Right.
(12:03):
If you looked at Nikola Jokic, he's the best offensive
player in the league, but he's a mediocre to slightly
above average defensive player depending on how hard he's trying.
In that particular season, I thought he was pretty bad
in this postseason run. I thought he's pretty good last year, right.
Who is it easier to build a championship team around.
I think it's easier to build a championship team around
(12:24):
Yokis because you can construct a role for Jokic to
be an effective defensive player, and we've seen the Denver
defend at a championship level. Right. But on the other end,
Jokic just can make anything work, right. He can create
something out of nothing on the offensive end, better than
basically every player in the league at this point. Looking
(12:45):
at Yannis, you could get a league average player in
construct a role for him at the power forward spot
where he's a relatively effective defensive player, But you can't
turn around and do that on the offensive end of
the floor, right. Like Giannis's offensive limitations have shown to
the surface in the postseason often, they showed up in
twenty twenty three when like, yes, I know he dealt
(13:07):
with injuries in the Miami Series, but once again close
games in the half court, Jimmy was just way better
than him. Right, going back to the seasons before he
won the title, going back to twenty twenty, going back
to twenty nineteen, it's been a consistent issue through Jannis's
career that in the half court when things slow down,
his offensive limitations are harder to cope with as a
staff and as a franchise than defensive limitations, right, and
(13:30):
so again, like I think it's all relative, Like Luca's
defensive limitations are so bad that there's a conversation to
be made that Giannis deserves to be over Luca simply
because at least he's functional on both ends of the
floor in a way that Luca is not. Right, But yeah,
for me, it's just I've probably put it at about
like seventy thirty in favor of offense, because I think
(13:52):
a super high powered offensive player can kind of overcome
everything in a way that is super high powered defensive
player that's limited on the offensive end cannot has Jalen
Brown now elevated to the Devin Booker tier of players
with his playoff performance this year offensively and defensively, He's
been paramount for Boston, where his stock has to be
up there as a potential Top twelve guy. Love the
(14:14):
show and love the Two Sons Podcast. Stay Ambitious. The
Two Sons Podcast is my podcast that I cover like
Star Wars, Game with Thrones, basically all television and cinematic media.
We just had an episode dropped yesterday on The Acolyte,
episode three. You can see the logo right there. It's
on YouTube, on two Sons podcast, It's on your podcast
(14:34):
feeds under two Sons Podcast. Make sure you guys get
over there and check that out and thank you for
supporting both of those shows. As far as Jalen Brown goes,
I talked about this with Colin Coward last night. Like,
to me, the conversation around the Jays has gone down
some weird paths in this postseason run. I think it's
less to do with Jason Tatum's decline and he's had
just a really bad jump shooting postseason, which has been
(14:55):
a kind of a continuation of an issue that's been
kind of propagating over the course of the last two
or three seasons. He's at the third consecutive postseason run
where he's down year over year from the previous year
as a jump shooter, and so that's like a whole other,
separate issue. But really just Jaylen Brown's gone up a level.
Jaylen Brown to me, when I'm ranking superstars, there's like
the top tier guys, which to me is literally just
(15:17):
like Jokic, Luca Yannis, maybe Embiid and Shae depending on
who you ask. Those are like the fringe guys in
that group. But like those are like the three top
tier guys. Then there's like the second tier guys, which
are like all the superstars that are just not quite
at that level. Right that's Embiid, Shay Tatum, Lebron, Anthony Davis,
like Jimmy Butler. There's just a bunch of guys in
(15:39):
that group right well. To me, Jaylen Brown was on
the tier below that coming into this season, and right
around halfway through the season, he really started to turn
it up defensively. He started guarding the other team's best
player every single night. He was really committing on that
end of the floor. I think it was part of
his Like his scoring went down this season just by
virtue of all the talent that they brought in, and
I think he just trying to find a way to
(16:01):
stay engaged with the team. But between that his development
is a pull up jump shooter. I talked about this
with Luca or with Luca with Colin last night. I
talked about how like it must have been really rewarding
for Jalen to hit those big mid range jump shots
down the stretch last night. He's been awesome in the
clutch in this final series. I thought he had that
huge driving left handed layup by Maxi Kliba in Game two.
(16:22):
He hit the two big jump shots last night, like
he's just been he's just been playing at that superstar
level there that's just below the true top tier guys,
and I've just been really impressed by him. And that's
the talent influx. The talent influx is, like you know,
even with porzingis out, it doesn't change the fact that
they have two guys that are in that second tier
of superstars, and that's just really difficult to deal with.
(16:45):
I mean, you guys know I'm a Lakers fan. Think
about how optimistic I've been about the Lakers consistently and
why I've been super optimistic about the Lakers consistently. Why
Because they have two guys that are in that second
tier superstars in Lebron James and Anthony Davis. Boston has
that too, in addition to Drew Holliday, Derek White, Al Horford,
Porzingis when he's healthy. I've been really impressed by Howser
(17:06):
and Pritchard and their contributions in this postseason run. But yeah,
the rise of Jayalen Brown has infinitely increased the ceiling
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(19:06):
How would you rank the last five NBA champions? Specifically
talking about the matchup flexibility on a year to year basis,
So this was an interesting one. Obviously, we're going to
be moving forward in this question assuming that Boston wins
the title. Obviously it's not completely over. But I personally think,
even juxtaposed with other three to zero series, I don't
(19:26):
think this is one that Dallas can turn around. So
I do believe that Boston will close it out in
no more than five games. So for me, again, as
I mentioned before, I think that this Boston Celtics team
is a little less dominant than it looks on the surface.
And the reasoning is pretty simple. The Eastern Conference at
the bottom was atrocious and so that inflated win totals
(19:48):
to a certain extent. To put it simply, you play
thirty games against the West, you play fifty two games
against your own conference. That is going to make it
so the Eastern Conference win totals are higher. There's a
lot of talk about like, oh, this team out West
only had forty six wins. O, this team out West
only had forty seven, forty eight wins, and it's like, yeah,
they're just way more good teams. They can't all have
fifty five wins. That's just not how it works, right. So,
(20:10):
like the win totals, I think for Boston were a
little inflated. There were five good teams in the East,
in my opinion, and four of them ended up in
the other end of the bracket. They all beat the
hell out of each other to where Indiana, which was
probably like I was ranking those teams on the other
end of the bracket, like Indiana very against the healthy
Bucks and the Sixers, and that Knicks team in the Pacers,
(20:32):
I'd probably put the Pacers at the bottom of that
list when they're all healthy, right, They beat the Bucks
because the Bucks weren't healthy, and by the time that
they got to the Knicks, the Knicks had completely fallen apart, right,
So like they faced this injured limited Pacers team in
the conference finals, and then out of all of the
teams that they could have faced out West, I think
Dallas was no higher than third out of those teams
(20:53):
in terms of who was best equipped to deal with Boston.
And so it's a bona fide NBA championship. They are
one of the more dominant champions in terms of on
paper success. However, a couple of specific things, like they
do not have that true alpha dog apex superstar, so
that would be something that I would hold them back
compared to some other champions. So let's talk about the
(21:15):
list here, and so I excitded this to six. You
asked me for the top five, I'm gonna go to
six because that's the delineation after after Kevin Durant and
Steph Curry were no longer teamed up with each other
post twenty eighteen, right or twenty nineteen, right. So we
have the twenty nineteen Raptors, twenty twenty Lakers, twenty twenty
one Bucks, twenty twenty two Warriors, twenty three Nuggets, twenty
(21:36):
four Celtics. So at number six, I put the twenty
twenty one Bucks. I think that Giannis in that twenty
twenty one season was a lesser superstar than some of
the other superstars that we've seen, like like Lebron in
twenty twenty or Yokic and twenty twenty three, Steph in
twenty twenty two, and Kawhi in twenty nineteen. I think
he was behind all of those guys in terms of
(21:57):
where the level he was playing at in that particular
postseason run that team, also in terms of just top
to bottom talent, in terms of the quality of teams
they beat along the way like you beat the Trey
Young Hawks in the conference final and the Devin Booker
Chris Paul Suns in the NBA Finals. So I put
the Bucks at the bottom of that list. Number five.
I put the twenty nineteen Raptors similar to the honest thing.
(22:19):
I think Kawhi is beneath Steph Jokich and Lebron in
terms of like that top tier superstar power. That team
was amazing defensively at a big look and a small look,
an awesome home court advantage, really really good team, but
I don't think they're better than any of the teams
above them. Twenty twenty two Warriors I put in at fourth.
The main reason why I have that team down further
(22:41):
is like their second best player and third best player
were basically like Jordan Poole and Andrew Wiggins in some order.
Probably I go Andrew Wiggins too, and then like you know,
Jordan Poole, then Draymond Green obviously was amazing defensively in
that postseason run. Klay Thompson had a huge fingerprint on
the NBA Finals with his defense on Jalen Like. It
was an excellent team that overachieved and won a title
(23:05):
with one of the all time great players in NBA
history in Steph Curry leading the way. But in terms
of just sheer force of talent that that was not
something that that Golden State team brought to the table.
So I have them a little bit lower at three.
I have the twenty twenty four Celtics, and the main case,
there is just overwhelming force of talent. Right you have
(23:26):
five players in the open market that would fetch thirty
plus million Al Horford if he was a free agent
tomorrow and would probably be in that like fifteen to
twenty million range. Like, they just have an absurdity of talent.
They have an excellent coach in Joe Mizzulu, who really
won me over in a big way in this postseason run.
It's been really fascinating just to get a better exposure
(23:48):
to the attempts that he's made this year to try
to shape the Celtics into a team oriented offense that
trusts each other. In Hunt's quality looks, they this is
a Celtics team that I didn't really enjoy watching that
much during the regular season because of their reticence to
really buy into Missoula Ball and what he was asking
them to do. And I actually genuinely enjoy watching the
(24:10):
Celtics now in a way that I didn't earlier because
they're playing a brand of basketball that I believe is
championship worthy. They've won me over at a big way.
Jalen Brown, I think has ascended into that second tier
of superstars. Awesome team one limitations, they just don't have
an apex star. Number two. I put the twenty twenty
three Denver Nuggets. I think that Nikola Jokic was and
(24:31):
still is the best player in the world. We'll get
into some of those specifics here. I think there's some
of it in this mail bag, but definitely over the offseason.
But the one limitation there why I have them below
the Lakers is their second best player, obviously was Jamal Murray,
who in my opinion is in that like fifteen to
twenty range. A lot of like really well fitting players,
(24:53):
but most of that team came down to Nikola jokicch
and what he could do in his unbelievable level of dominance.
He's why I have twenty one the twenty twenty Lakers
at one. And look, I get it, I'm biased. I'm
a Lakers fan. I'm a Lebron James fan. And by
the way, if you guys disagree, I just want to
see your rankings. Drop your rankings in the comments. You
guys know I go through and read the comments, So
drop your individual rankings on the teams and put your
(25:15):
reasoning and I'll read through it. And I want to
hear your guys take. My take is simple. The twenty
twenty Lakers were the only team in that group that
had two top tier superstars. Anthony Davis. Say what you
want about him, say what you want about what he's become,
say what you want about what he used to be.
But in that twenty twenty season, he was unquestionably one
(25:36):
of the five best players in the league. He had
this like deadly mid range ISO pull up jump shot attack.
He legitimately could space the four from the three point
line and hit a game winning three point shot in
that playoff series. He was a dominant low post force,
and he's the best defensive player in the world who
had one of the best defensive playoff runs that we've
ever seen. In Lebron James in twenty twenty was the
(25:59):
best player in the world. My opinion, should have one
MVP that was the year everyone bought into Giannis's advanced
metrics just because they kicked the shit out of everybody
in a bad Eastern conference. That team had, in my opinion,
the best player in the world in Lebron and the
fourth best player in the world in Anthony Davis, while
also being a elite defensive team down the roster. There
(26:19):
is no other team in that list. Denver did not
have two top five players. This Boston team does not
have two top five players. That Warriors team did not
have two top five players. Neither did the Rafters, neither
did the Bucks. And so that's my case. And so
what I want you guys to do. If you're arguing
with me and you're saying, Jason, you're an idiot, you're
a biased Lakers fan, why do you have the Lakers
at one? Tell me what of those other teams conquers
(26:42):
the fact that the Lakers had two of the top
five players in the world during that span. That's where
I think is a good spot to kind of start
that debate. But we can get into that more in
some mail bags down the line. Next question, even though
the NBA has a lot of young, talented players, why
does it not feel as exciting. I thought this was
pretty simple. The one. The Eastern Conference playoff picture was
just really bad. This year two we have had back
(27:05):
to back seasons. This is crazy. I had to go
back and look at it. Back to back seasons where
in the conference finals the team jumped up three to
zero in both conferences. Miami went up three to ohero
on Boston. Last year, Denver went up three to oho
on the Lakers. Dallas went up three zero in Minnesota.
This year, Boston went up three to zero on the Pacers.
Then we go into the NBA Finals. Denver kicked the
shit out of Miami last year in Boston's kicking the
(27:27):
shit out of Dallas. So for back to back seasons,
the second half of the playoff picture has just been garbage,
and so I think that that has kind of taken
some of the excitement out of it. But I think
a lot of that has to do with matchups, A
lot of that has to do with health. So with
the team the league getting deeper and more and more
good teams entering the picture, I do think that we'll
have more exciting playoff runs down the line. Do you
(27:49):
think the finals MVP is locked in for Jaln Brown
or depending on if it's a sweep in how each
JT and him perform, could it defer to Jason Tatum
love the show, keep it up. So I think Jalen
Brown is the clear Finals MVP to this point. He's
been better statistically. He has the two most iconic plays
of the series, those two one handed dunks that he
(28:09):
had even on the block of PJ. Washington in transition
at the end of Game two was Derek White was
in there, but so was Jalen Brown. He hit three
of the biggest shots in the series, that driving left
handed layup on maxic Cleiba, as well as the pull
up jump shots that he hit last night. I think
Jalen Brown is clearly the Finals MVP to this point. Obviously,
if JB goes for twelve in Game four and Tatum
(28:31):
goes for forty and it's a super close game, you
could see potentially as swinging the other way. But to me,
Jalen Brown's clearly the Finals MVP at this point. As
far as the other element to it, which is like
Jason Tatum's responsibilities, which are he could double team more. Obviously,
him being on the center is the primary defensive function
(28:51):
that has caused Dallas' offense to fall apart. I do
think Tatum's impact in this series is underrated. He's been
better than what you would think look at the box score.
That said, Jalen Brown also has done a lot of
stuff in the details. He's been one of the main
guys getting them in rotation Defensively, he's been the guy
that's been picking up Luca full court and applying all
that ball pressure and doing all that work. Like to me,
(29:14):
even though Jason Tatum has a lot beneath the box
score that he's been doing well, it's not enough to
make up for the gap. And I think Jalen Brown
deserves to win finals. MVP. Do you think the Celtics
can continue to win championships if Tatum isn't playing at
a top five level, because it's pretty clear that he
won't reach that top tier as long as those five
guys are together, even just Horford and with those four guys, yeah,
(29:35):
forget about it. Let's just take the center position and
position out of it. As long as Eric White, Jalen Brown,
Jason Tatum, and Drew Holliday are together, I think that
they're going to have a really good chance to win.
I agree with Colin last night he said he said
that the Celtics team is too weird to like win
three or four in a row. I agree with that,
But they're too talented to not win at least one
and to be in the picture every year. And if
(29:57):
they're in the picture every year, all takes is an
injury here, favorable matchup there to get a win. And
so I think if someone asked me, is it more
likely than not that Boston wins another one in the
next two seasons, I'd say yes, I think it's more
likely than not that Boston wins another one at some
point in the next two seasons. They're durable, they're young,
they're athletic, they just they check so many boxes. They're
(30:18):
just gonna be in the picture. That said every team
that won the championship over the last six years. Do
you guys remember Nuggets fans last year all summer long,
how confident and arrogant they were. Remember Warriors fans the
year before, Remember Bucks fans the year before that, Remember
Lakers fans. I mean, we're still arrogant, you know what
I mean? So like we like you got to remember that,
like every team that hoists the trophy thinks they're the
(30:39):
team that figured it out. They're about to go on
a run. Boston, Actually I do think has a chance
to win multiple so does Denver. But we found out
pretty quickly that it was kind of a flash and
a pan thing with that Warriors team and with that
Bucks team. Right, so something to keep in mind. Let's see,
we'll do one more and then we'll get out of here. Hey, Jason,
love the work you've been doing. You've really made me
fall in love with the game again. My question is
did this year's playoffs affect how you look at future
(31:00):
playoff series? And if it did, how so? So this
has been and we're going to do a deeper version
of this right after the NBA Finals end. It'll probably
be one of the early videos we do next week
every year. If those are guys who followed the show,
I do like a five biggest lessons I learned. But
if I had to give like a quick elevator pitch
on it, it's pretty simple to me. I do think
it's important to run five out offense. You guys who
(31:22):
have followed the show for a while know that I
used to be a huge proponent, not a huge proponent,
but a defender of that four out kind of brute
force type of attack. But when you have the four
out brute force kind of attack, I think you need
multiple physically imposing players for that to work. And I
think that one of the things that's happened is Dallas
has been reliant a lot on pull up jump shooting
(31:43):
because of this adjustment that Boston's made, and it's kind
of stagnated things. It's made the role players play poorly.
Kyrie and Luca haven't been able to hit enough of
them right. And so I think teams that have more
ball in player movement that keep all five players involved
just have some more resilience when they get to the
later levels of the playoffs. So, like to me, ideally
you want to run a five out offense with five
(32:03):
offensive threats. They don't all have to be shooters, but
they all need to be offensive threats in some way,
shape or form, even if it's just like a screener
and cutter. Right. But I think that that's an important
piece that I'd look at, Like, I think that that's
an important lesson to learn, is that teams that run
five out multiple players of multiple threats, lots of ball
and player movement on the other end of the floor. Again,
this is something that I've always believed but I think
(32:26):
has been hammered home in a big way in this postseason.
Defensive versatility. You have to be able to guard multiple ways.
If you can load up on a team to guard,
that's great, But you better be able to guard a
team that spreads you out as well, a team that
can test your perimeter defense and test your ability to
contain in rotation. So next year, when we see a
team that has a great defensive rating that loads up
the paint and drop coverage and uses the low man
(32:48):
and loads up the strong side, but they have multiple
weak perimeter defensive points, just something to keep in mind
as we go into the postseason. We'll get into way
more detail about that when we get into this summer.
As always, I appreciate you guys for participating in the
mail bag and for supporting the show. We're gonna be
back tomorrow night, no calling tomorrow, just me live. After
the final buzzer of Game four. I will see you
(33:10):
guys though the volume
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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