June 15, 2024 • 51 mins
The nerds react to Game 4 of the NBA Finals, as Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown and the Boston Celtics attempt to sweep Luka Doncic, Kyrie Irving and the Dallas Mavericks to win their 18th NBA title.
Timestamps
00:00:23 - Dallas’ defense and interior supremacy
00:12:16 - Luka’s offensive dominance
00:24:40 - Dallas’ elite play from role players
00:31:54 - Where did Boston fall short?
00:37:14 - The Tatum vs. Brown debate
00:38:57 - What can Boston do differently in Game 5?
00:43:19 - Does this game threaten Boston’s status as an all-time team?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. Oh my god, how could he do that?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
No, don't watch.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
What Charles Darwin. The nerves is where it's at.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Welcome everybody back into Nerds set as always, I'm Carson
Forever in alongside me is logan. Kanson and the Dallas
Mavericks slogan are not done just yet.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
We know the historical president.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Nobody ever in any playoff series in NBA history has
come back from down three to zero. But the MAVs
respond with, who knows what this game will end up at.
We're recording before it's even over. Maybe a forty point
win over.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
The Boston Celtics.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
What to you was the biggest difference in the biggest
key to them just absolutely dominating this one with their
backs against the wall.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
We gotta give a ton of credit to Luka Doncic
and what he did offensively out of the gates in
this game, but we'll get to that in a minute.
I think the biggest key to Dallas dominating this game
was their defense for one, and then how they just
completely dominated the interior in basically every facet of this game.
The Celtics are held to a season low thirty five
(01:16):
points in the first half in that first half, they
have an offensive rating of seventy seven point eight, and
overall in this game they have an offensive rating of
eighty four point five. Dallas forced a lot of turnovers.
Boston recks up thirteen turnovers in meaningful basketball time. They
hold them to ten of thirty from behind the arc,
and nobody has a good game offensively for Boston. All
(01:40):
of their like stars, all of these elite guys held
below fifteen points. I don't know why I'm using quotations
they are stars.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Quote. Yeah, he has to get back on that Boston
hate trading. He hopped right.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Ude. I'm not gonna lie, brother. I hate Boston so much.
This was It's not nice. I like seeing a I
like seeing competitive basketball games. I actually did not enjoy
watching this and this is not competitive at all. Makay
Luke minutes and we got the most We got the
most racist Boston Celtics lineup of all time. Man, that
(02:15):
felt like a hate crime. At the end of this game.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
That's whatever they do.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Whenever they are just absolutely beating the ship out of you,
they throw four.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
White dudes on the floor. It's not good. Yeah, I'm
not comfortable with it.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
I I say stars. They didn't perform like stars in
today's basketball game. And and you know what, I'll push
back a little bit against Boston. They've thrown on me
in these finals, but they put up a stinker, a
clunker in this one. And a lot of that has
to do with the step up in defense that we
saw from Dallas. I built a bunch of numbers at you.
Luca plays so much better. There is so much more engaged,
(02:51):
like just trying so much defense is just effort. And
we get that from Luca in this one. But you
got to give credit to the interior and the star
of the show to me, and the one was Derek
Lively man blocking shots, working his ass off on the glass,
running in transition. He dominated this one, dude, and Dallas
fought for every board. Again, these are numbers for meaningful time,
(03:13):
not with the bench a mob out there. Dallas wins
the rebounding battle forty nine to twenty five. That's plus
twenty four. They win the offensive rebounding battle twelve to two,
that's plus ten. And in terms of points in the paint,
Carson Dallas wins the battle fifty six to eighteen. I mean,
that's disgusting work. That's the key to me, man, and
(03:34):
it shows us a really frightening floor that the Boston
Celtics have with that without Christop Sportsngis, Like that was
a big key to me that Dallas. You know, they
really shined in the paint. They didn't have a great
game last game, mostly because of Luka doncrits in the
second half and what he did defensively, but they were
able to do work inside and I'm glad Dallas focused
(03:56):
on that. Man, it seemed like there was a you know,
concerted effort to get downhill to get shots in the paint.
They open up this game with like, I think sixteen
straight points in the paint. It was something absurd like that.
But I'm glad that Dallas honed in on the inside.
To me, it was a key area where they could
win without Christops Porzingis. And they did that, man, getting downhill,
consistently getting easy looks inside, dominating the glass, making sure
(04:19):
Boston couldn't get a ton inside there. And that's what
That's what worked man. A lot better defensively, a lot
better working on the inside. And shout out to what
Luke and Kyrie did offensively. But I thought this game
was powered by how Dallas was able to dominate the
interior and on defense.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Agreed, it was really a perfect game all around for Dallas.
You could not have played any better than they did,
but it did start on the defensive end, and you
give props to Lively. I thought Lively was amazing in
this game, and I thought that he was definitely good
defensively on the interior. To me, though his most pronounced
impact was what he did on the offensive glass, so
(04:56):
sort of high effort plays. He and Gafford were good
defensively on the interior. But while they have been like
the backbone, the strong point of this Dallas defense for
so much of these playoffs, I didn't really feel like
that was the case in this one.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
I thought they did their job well.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
But to me, the biggest thing was the defense at
the point of attack, the physicality that these wings were applying,
the pressure that they were applying, and just plugging all
the holes to where they were not allowing that dribble
penetration that they have been conceding over and over again
through the first three games. And the single biggest change there,
although it was a collective improvement, is Luka doncicch logan.
(05:33):
He did a complete one to eighty defensively after playing
two abominable games defensively, the two worst defensive games that
he's played in these playoffs. In Games two and three,
he played one of, if not the best defensive games
that he has all postseason. In this one, consistently, we
saw much improved effort from him in terms of isolation defense,
(05:54):
regardless of the matchup with Jayson Tatum, with Jalen Brown
playing physically, moving his feet really well, cutting off fangles,
just cutting off those drives, forcing turnovers. I mean, Drew Holliday,
he forced to lose the handle on multiple occasions, and
that's kind of been the focus from the mainstream media.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
So to say, it's obviously been a.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Huge problem him allowing these blowbys and consistently allowing dribble
penetration when he's on the ball, But the single most
frustrating thing to me about Game three was the combination
of that with his complete obliviousness and disinterest as a
team defender, just leaving Sam Howser in the corner for
no reason on the strong side, not competing whatsoever on
(06:34):
the glass for defensive rebounds multiple times, completely losing Jalen
Brown off ball and just allowing these super easy cuts,
like you have to be engaged if you can't stay
in front of Jason Tatum and Jylen Brown because they're
more athletic than you.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
That's one thing.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Now, he did show even in this game that he
can improve there with better effort, But the biggest thing
was just not caring about how you can help be
an important part heart of this defense that constantly needs
everybody engaged and connected, and even with his limitations, like
that's what Luca was through the first three rounds. He
was an engaged team defender for the most part, with
(07:10):
a couple of games where he was off and there
was an exception to that, and that's what he was
again tonight. I thought that he was really really good
on that end, and that was exactly what this.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Team needed, and he very much answered the call. Is
it too little, too late, maybe, but.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
He improved his performance dramatically on that end, and I
just thought overall like they played their best defensive lineups.
We've talked about the lack of offensive production from their
role players and how that's been an issue, but the
reason that Jason Kidd didn't want to play THHJ through
the first two games. Didn't want to really play Jaydon
Hardy is because this team's identity around Luke and Kyrie
(07:47):
has always been about having a bunch of athletes and
a bunch of defenders.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
That's when they're at their.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Best, when those dudes can play capably offensively, and that's
what they got in this one. You get zero meaningful
Tim Hardaway Junior or Jayden Hardy, and you're getting awesome
defense and effort from Kleeba and Josh Green. They are
staying in front of these guys on their drives, they're
making high effort plays with their hands. So ultimately they
just kind of broke down the Celtics offense and you
(08:14):
got them to the point where it's not just that
you're neutralizing their drive and kick game. You're leading to
actively bad possessions where now they aren't even trying to
put that pressure on you. They're just forcing these really
tough one pass catch and shoot threes. They're forcing these
deep pull up threes, they're forcing these Drew Holiday isolations,
and he had five turnovers in this game, all of
(08:36):
the exact sort of shots you do not want if
you're the Boston Celtics. Jalen Brown's decision making I thought
was really bad in this game. He got sucked into
some really really bad shots. And so that's exactly what
you want to do. If you're the defense. You're not
just taking away their greatest strength. You're forcing them into
their worst tendencies. You are speeding them up, you are
(08:57):
forcing them into shots that they normally wouldn't take, that
they don't want to take. It's like what we saw
in Minnesota do against Denver on several occasions in that series.
Once you start getting those like quick early shot clock
Aaron Gordon catchahoot threes, that's when you know you're doing
things right defensively. And that was sort of the equivalent
of what you get from Boston in this game. They
were just totally rattled. They looked uncomfortable driving downhill. So
(09:20):
it was just a complete transformation. And that has been
in so many ways the strength of this Dallas team,
how awesome this defense has been. And they struggled to
get stops, and even though Boston's offensive rating maybe wasn't
overwhelming through the first three games, the shot quality they
created in Game two, for example, where it doesn't fall
through the first quarters of Game three was consistently awesome,
(09:42):
and that was not the case at all tonight. And
you have to give a bunch of props to Dallas
defense for that you do.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
And I think you hit on a big key there, Carson.
I don't want that to get lost in the shuffle
with this. Luke and Kyrie pull their weight offensively. A
lot of the guys are making shots. But that's the
recipe of winning for Dallas, dictating and winning the defensively.
You know, that's what we stress so much is you know,
you went on that end and then everything else will
come easy. And they did so much better walling off
(10:08):
Jaalen Brown and Jason Tatum from getting downhill containing driple penetration.
I also thought it did great. I also thought they
did a great job at recovering too. Uh. There's that
one possession where they create a pretty good advantage there initially. Yeah,
and you get two swing passes to Tatum top of
the key. Two guys are going to the basketball. At
the end of that shot clock, Tatum has to kick
(10:30):
back out to Horford. It's just there was a different
kind of level of engagement from this team that we
just didn't get in. I think you hit a key
there too.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
Man.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
We're not asking Luka Doncic to be an all world defender.
We're not asking him to come out there and play
a game like Drew Holliday. We're asking him to be
a key, important cog in the defense, and he can
do that. I think you're right the media not that
we overblew it in Game three, right. I think Luca
got rightfully chastised for his effort and engagement defensively in
(11:01):
Game three. But I think it got a little overblown
where some people were doing this revisionist history sort of
deal with the earlier rounds where it's, oh, Luca was
so bad and this and and and that was just
not the case at all. Like, you're right, he had
one or two games where you can, you know, be
critical of him, but consistently Luca was a good isolation
defender and was pretty engaged. Like Game three was just
(11:23):
the one instance where you know, we.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Saw Game two he was awful to it's been this series,
this series, he's been really awful. But I totally agree
with you, because then people started doing the thing where
it's Luca's been awful defensively all playoffs.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
He's the worst defender in the league.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
That's just not true. This was a series in which
he had been awful, and this game doesn't change how
bad he was over the first three games and the
fact that did cost this team. But I totally am
with you on this sort of retroactive rewriting of history.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
That just isn't fair.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Because we get caught up in the moment, and it's
just important to remember what this team can look like
when and everybody is locked in there, like we got
engaged Luca, and guess what when we got engaged Luca,
look at what ripple effect that causes with everybody else.
You can win convincingly possession to possession on defense, and
they just did it. Man. I also want to give
a ton of credit to Luca offensively. Lucas three was
(12:17):
not falling in this game. He goes oh four in
the first half, he goes oh four in the second half,
and he didn't let that stop him. One he got
away from that shot. It wasn't falling, and he didn't say, hey,
let me take nine more.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
No, what did he do?
Speaker 1 (12:31):
He got to his pump, fake more. He looked to fouls,
but he also just got down hill at will Man.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
He got what he.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Wanted in the paint, and that's where I was most
satisfied with Dallas's offenses. Again, I talk about Christops not
being out there offensively or defensively for Boston. That's a
clear advantage that Dallas has, and credit to Jason Kidd
and this team. They have been great at capitalizing on
advantages consistently when they rise within series right. Dallas has
(12:57):
typically had games where they've been off, but if you
give them a sliver, if you give them something they
can attack. Dallas has been pretty good at changing up
their game plan and going at it, and I thought
they did a phenomenal job. Luca deserves amts amount of
credit what he just does individually twenty five points in
the first half ten of eighteen shooting. It's like he
just had this feeling where he's gonna get what he wants.
(13:17):
It doesn't matter who you put on him, He's gonna
get to his spot. He's gonna knock down a shot.
But Kyrie also did a great job of getting downhill
twenty one to four and six in this game ten
of eighteen. He also struggles from behind the arc That's
where I was way more happier with Dallas's offense and
their offensive process. And you just see how it opens
everything else up for this offense, creating open, easy looks
(13:38):
for shooters, you know, more diverting more attention to the
interior because of what Kyrie and Luca were doing offensively.
Here's just a smarter game plan. And Carson, frankly, we'll
get into, you know, Christops and all that. I don't
really buy that Porzingis is going to be available the
rest of this series. They said, Missoula comes out and
says he's available for this game. I think that's smoke.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Like, no, dude, he said he's not quite ready, but
available for certain situations.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
Like what does that even mean?
Speaker 3 (14:07):
You're just trying to have the idea in the MAVs
head that ooh, he might appear out of a cloud
of smoke, like he's the undertaker.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
He's not gonna play.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yeah, that we could deploy him at any moment when
it's contageous for us guys. I think that is all bs.
I don't think KP has a single chance at coming
back in this game. And so on the bright side
for Dallas, look down three to zero. This has never
happened in NBA history. Before you get the game that
you need. The bright side is you have a tangible
area to attack a week point on Boston, and that's
(14:38):
the bright side. I'm not saying that I think this
is a you know all, we're gonna see the first
ever come back in NBA Finals history, at first ever
comeback from three to zero and NBA Playoffs history. But
there is a tangible area the Dallas can attack and
win at offensively and defensively, and that's encouraging. I don't
really buy for a second that bor Sengis is gonna
come back in this series.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
No, I definitely do not think that we see him,
which sucks because he was playing awesome and I love
his game. But that's just the reality here from my
perspective as a doctor. Keep in mind as a medical doctor,
that is what I'm saying. Luca was fantastic in this game.
Offensively is always going to be his strength, of course,
but we talk about the defensive improvement. It was a
masterpiece offensively, and eleven of his twelve field goals came
(15:22):
in the paint. You mentioned that the three ball was
off and he just didn't let that affect his dominance,
and specifically it was the relentless hunting of the matchups
that he wanted, Like when he got that Derek White matchup,
he was going to bully him all the way to
the rim. If he got a potential cross match against
Drew Holiday in transition went Downhill attacked him. But specifically
(15:45):
it was Sam Houser who he was just going at
over and over, and he can get to his spots
effortlessly in a matchup like that, Like Howser had defended
him relatively well in the limited possessions that we saw
through the first three games. But when Luca commits to
being super physical there and he can just weaponize that
change in pace of his he's gonna win that matchup
(16:07):
a vast majority of the time, and he absolutely did
in this one. They just could not keep him from
chiseling his way into those little floaters a What makes
Luca one of the greatest offensive players that we've ever seen,
among other things, of course, the pull up shooting and
the playmaking, but that physical imposition and change in pace
is so so special, and Boston's whole defensive game plan
has been We're not sending two to the ball, we're
(16:29):
not overhelping, and that's been the right game plan. But
when he's just destroying you one on one like that,
well then that's a really good result for the MAVs.
And that's just tough for Boston to stomach. And that
is one of the results of having kp out. It
means playing a Sam Hauser more just means putting more
vulnerable pieces on the floor for more minutes.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
And he was also creating.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Good shots for his teammates, not at like a ludicrous volume,
but he was in complete control offensively. I thought played
a phenomenal game there. And you talk about the criticism.
Obviously it was extremely, extremely loud. And it's funny because
we obviously do our reactions immediately postgame, so we come
in here say our piece. We both ragged on Luca
for his defense, reamed him, and then you see, okay, wow,
(17:15):
that's what a lot of people did. You see the
windy thing, and then you see it progress over like
the next couple of days in the media cycle where
it's all anybody's talking about. I saw a specific ESPN
ticker point that was referring to Luca's defense getting exploited.
It had the blowby stat like this isn't during a show,
this is just you know, where you see news, like
where you see the results of a NASCAR race or whatever.
(17:36):
And I was like, this is definitely dominating the news cycle,
and deservedly so because of how bad he was.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
But it was a phenomenal.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Response to that criticism, and I do think some of
that criticism went too far. Once you take it beyond
the scope of this is where he has let you
down in this series, this is where he let you
down in this game, you start to get some takes.
As we talked about the revisionist history with his whole
defense claiming he can't pop will be a top three guy,
revisiting the him versus Tatum conversation, there was a take
from our big boss man, Colin Coward, who I love
(18:06):
and have immense respect for. But then I thought went
way too far where he talks about Luca being like
a better version of Melo, which I think is just
wrong for multiple reasons.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
I guess I'll get into them.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
First of all, Melo being a low efficiency scorer, being
a bad playmaker, whereas Luca is again a guy who
blends this all time combination of imposing himself downhill with
elite shot making with elite playmaking, which makes him one
of like the tennis best offensive players we've ever seen.
That's in a completely different stratosphere from Melo. And then
(18:41):
in terms of the defensive stuff, the emotional stuff, I
just don't think we can really put Luca in a
hole there and say, Okay, this is who you are,
because he is twenty five, and it's rare to see
dudes at twenty five in this spot. And that doesn't
mean that it's not disappointing because I went off on
this dude after Game three, because it's super disappointing. When
(19:03):
you see the most apathetic defensive effort that I can
think of from a superstar in the NBA Finals, you
have to understand the gravity of that moment, not just
in game four. You don't get a bunch of flowers
that wipes everything away. You got to understand that the
entire time. But to me, this did show that he
can't learn for moments like this, and we've seen that
theme to some extent throughout these playoffs of Luca having
(19:26):
the games where he's disengaged defensively. Game one against LA.
He was getting absolutely torched off those switches against James Harden.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
Then what happened.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
He came back in game two, played his best defensive
game of that series. Game four against OKC, when they
let that lead slip away and Luca was complaining and
whining and super mad about the physicality.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
What happened. He snapped into focus.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
The next game he did no kimplaining he played an
awesome basketball game. This was another one of those moments
for him, and listen, it's gonna end up being too little,
too late, But when we think about his arc, what
he can grow into as a basketball player in that context,
I do think that it's encouraging because he's an all
time great talent. Offensively, the ability will never ever be
in question because even defensively, he can play at that
(20:09):
fine level where he's not actively hurting you. He just
has to care, he has to try, He has to
play with the effort that you need from your best
player in the NBA Finals, and he did that in
this one. So of course the burden on him has
been great. And there's a bunch of Luca fans who
I'm sure are super pissed about how people have talked
about him over the last couple of games, But that
(20:30):
is what comes with the expectations that Luca has earned
by being one of the most talented basketball players that
we've ever seen. The standard for him is higher than
it is for Jason Tatum, and Tatum, of course, has
done the things to impact winning when a shot has
been off, but that certainly doesn't make him a better
player than Luca Donches because the gap offensively is absolutely massive.
(20:51):
Like I think there's a big gap between those two
as NBA players, but you do have that standard as
Luca and specifically when your shortcoming is your effort and focus,
that's what's so disappointing.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
That's why you have to get on him. And in
this moment, he absolutely answered the call.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Yeah, And I think Luca's got that. I think he's
got that kind of Michael Jordan stuff where he like
has a chip on his shoulder and if you give
him that extra kind of fuel or motivation, he's one
of those guys that you don't want to give it
to him, you know what I mean, You don't want
to give him anything extra that he can work with.
(21:28):
And I think he took it to heart again that
doesn't excuse any of his performance in game three, And
I loved what Wendy said after Game three. I thought
he hit everything on the head. He said a lot
of the same stuff we did. I also hated his
comments in the presser. You know, it came off really
like immature after the game where he was talking about
(21:48):
c NBA finals. You know, we can't play physical six fouls.
What are you talking And it just came off really
like immature, And so I'm not excusing that at all.
But I did think everything in game five, for I
think he internalized a lot of the things that were
said about him and he changed it. I didn't see
him moaning to refs. I saw him hustling and getting
back on defense, you know what I mean. Like he
(22:11):
was a lot more under control. And there's one more
final aspect. Again, I'm not a doctor. I have not
been under the influence of any of these things that
Luca is getting shot up with. And again I don't
want to speculate on something like this. Hear me out.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
This is about too this is about to get Logan
camned in tinfoil hat I can feel it.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Do you think that they're affecting him? Adversely in any
kind of extra ways. I mean emotionally, yes, I don't.
You don't think so.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
I don't think that.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
No, Okay, I I was just like, it's just such
a drastic change to me. And it's not like we
haven't seen this in the playoffs already. We saw in
Oklahoma City series where he's crying and complaining about calls.
In the next game, he comes in completely locked in.
I just know Luca's been shot up with a bunch
of stuff to get him to power through these playoffs.
And I don't know, man, maybe it is little.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
Thing ll bro. It's not gonna be legitimately, but no,
I really don't think that's the case.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
I like chill Lucas, I like I likes I like
happy Luca.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Man, he looks he looks a lot better anyway, this
version of Luca when he gets when he can reach
that kyrie Zen kind of statement. Uh, it's for the
better of the team and for the betterment of Luka Doncic.
Tonight was a lot more controlled man, And that's all
you can ask for him, right. You can't go back
and play that game over again. You can't go back,
and all you can do is make the current situation better,
(23:36):
and he did all of the questions, all of the criticisms.
Luke answered that emphatically with his first quarter, with our
first half, excuse me, and with his defensive performance top
to bottom, and with his demeanor everything that we were critical.
Loving Game three, I was really satisfied with what we
got from lucas just a really good answer from a
question that left me or from a game that left
(23:56):
me really disappointed.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Absolutely, but he has to be at that level consistently,
and that's where it's like we're praising him for this game.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
Keep in mind, that does not mean that over.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
The course of this series he has not been disappointing
and costly in the effort categories on the defensive side
of the ball, because of course he overall absolutely has been,
and that has been the focus of the MAVs discourse.
And while Luca's defense was a big problem, and there's
sort of the given reality going into this series, Boston
is way more talented.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
So you need your two stars of your.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Dallas to be way better than Boston's best two guys.
You need them to like be overwhelmingly great in terms
of their impact on the game. That's just understood. But
even within that understanding, on top of Luca's defensive struggles,
these role players for Dallas, who are much more limited
compared to Boston's had also like really underperformed even for
(24:51):
their standards, had really really struggled. And I thought that
that dynamic was very different in this game. And the
biggest guy who deserves credit there is Eric Lively. I
just thought his activity was absolutely sensational. Seven offensive rebounds
in this game, just maniacal in his.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
Pursuit of the ball.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
And as we've talked about Boston's ability to switch, everything
means that you're not gonna get those easy roles for
the Dallas biggs because they're not getting behind you. But
what it does allow is for them to have these
advantages on the offensive glass against these smaller players off
of switches. And you absolutely saw Lively take full advantage
of that.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
And he's had a couple sequences in this game.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
There was one in the first half where he hits
the corner three, which was absolutely insane. Made me do
like a cartoon, rub my eyes to make sure that
I wasn't seeing things. I wanted to reach for my spectacles,
which don't exist. That was insane his first career three.
Then on the other end, blows up an Xavier Tilmann
attempt around the rim, then gets back. In transition, Kyrie
(25:50):
throws him a lob. Tatum gets lost a little bit emphatic,
finished big momentum play.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
He had another.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Sequence where Darre Jones Junior just like dribbled the ball
off his feet. Who was there to the fifty to
fifty ball? It was Lively. He picks it up, finds
a wide open Kyrie from beyond the arc. Kyrie misses,
and then it's Lively who was there for the offensive rebound.
Just making play after play, and that differential on the glass,
that differential in terms of effort to fifty to fifty
balls was reflected across the board between these two teams.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
But Lively was the single biggest difference maker there.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
And I just think he's already so special in terms
of his impact for a rookie, and he can be
a really awesome player. But I want to give promps
to Josh Green, who defended really well. He made some
of those high for plays, forcing a jump ball, stripping
Jason Tatum, getting an offensive rebound. Dante Exem gave you
good minutes in this one, hitting above the break three,
which we know has been like the holy grail for
the mass supporting cast when they can do that. He
(26:43):
stole a rebound from a Celtic. Maxi Kleeba comes in
hits a corner three. He was defending very well. He
deflects a pass into a steal. Like all of those dudes,
impacted the games with their defense, with their effort, and
then also made their open shots, which which they hadn't
been able to do through the first three games of
this series when this was an actual NBA game. I
(27:05):
stopped paying attention after that point. But like before the
starters were pulled, PJ darre Jones, Junior Kliba, Lively, and
Dante Exem had combined to go six of nine from deep.
It's not high volume, but it's obviously amazing efficiency, and
that's just a massive improvement because that has ultimately been
this team's biggest limitation, just the complete lack of production
(27:26):
from those guys. Boston's ability to say, okay, Kyrie and Luca,
you have to do everything, and just living with the
reality that you're not getting creation from anywhere else. And
even when those guys had gotten good looks they were
not making them. They really stepped up to the task
in this game. And again it's gonna be a case
ultimately of too little, too late. You're still down three
to one to a better team with home court advantage.
(27:48):
But they also answered the call in this one.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Yeah, they did the above the breakthrees on and that
was It's like when the floodgates open up, man, when
everything's going right and then the pressures off and then
they can just start draining threes, but huge impacts.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
I also, I mean it's jarn Glively hits a three.
You know that it's just one of those days. It's
like Xavier Tillman last game for the Celtics.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Also, the one more play that I wanted to mention
it gets called back. Lively has that short role kick
out to ExHAM for that open three, and you know
they ended up calling it back because Excells football was
on the line. You got great minutes and I would
turn to Exemon Green more in this series. Apparently, I
think Twitter said Tim Hardaway Junior ended up knocking down
(28:31):
five threes. I don't care. Also, a part of the
floodgates in the fourth quarter.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
Guards a time empty stats.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
That's the most Tim Hardaway Junior mess ever.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
All right, THCHJ, We're gonna play you nineteen minutes in
a crucial Game three because we need an injection of offense.
He goes zero for five and gets attacked defensively. THHJA,
we're up thirty five. He goes crazy.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Yeah, everything, I'm going Exemon Green the rest of the series.
I think they gave them great minutes. I also think
X I love what Excellent brings like offensively in terms
of extra ball handling, pushing and transition. I think it's
a really valuable thing to have, just because there's so much.
All the other guys are limited, and then Green just
brings another dimension. Defensively, those guys are obviously always question
(29:16):
marks in terms of what they're gonna do shooting wise,
but I think they bring enough aggregate value in other
areas where I'm giving those guys minutes over the likes
of Hardy or Tim Hardaway Junior. There's no doubt in
my mind those are the guys that have given minutes too,
and they played well enough.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
Man, Yeah, I am.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Pretty disappointed in Boston. Do you want to get into
that or you want to hold off.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Let's take a quick break and then we'll talk about
the Boston side of this where they need to improve,
after of course, some quick words from DraftKings.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
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Speaker 3 (31:15):
I can't help but notice the volume of my hair
and that draft came bad, Logan, Be honest.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
Do you think I look British with this haircut? Picture?
Speaker 1 (31:22):
You post it on Twitter?
Speaker 3 (31:23):
You do look British as you don't look British, bro,
I think I'm a Propageese mate.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Roll Yeah, dude, the cut does look British.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
Yeah, it's all right. I don't have much margin with
my complexion. I mean Obviously there's a good bit of
Scottish and Irish in here, but the cut is definitely
making me look British. Anyways, that's something that I'm grappling with.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
You get a puffer on it's over, I think you
could convert.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
I mean that would be tough. That would be tough.
I would love to rock the puffer. Let's talk about
the Boston side of this, because Dallas obviously was awesome,
but it was all also super disappointing from Boston. What's
you was the biggest issue on their end.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Yeah, there were a lot of issues containing dribble, penetration,
reliably ending possessions. I mentioned the rebounding, discrepancy and meaningful minutes.
They get out rebounded by twenty four. They allowed Dallas
to grab twelve offensive rebounds, they get out rebounded by ten. There,
Luke and Kyrie were getting what they wanted. It will.
Some of that is attacking smart mismatches on their end,
(32:26):
and some of that is Boston being apathetic defensively. My
biggest issue was probably Boston offensively and really what we
got from Tatum and Brown. Tatum opened this game up
and I thought we were going to get a great
Jason Tatum game. Maybe not shooting the ball, but what
he was doing getting downhill. He had eleven points in
(32:48):
the first quarter, was finishing really well at the rim
through contact. And if you know anything about Jason Tatum,
that's arguably the biggest area where he struggled. And his
jumper's been horrible in these playoffs. His three ball has
been horrible in these playoffs. Right, There's been a lot
of areas Jason Tatum has struggled scoring offensively, but he's
always kind of struggled a little bit. It's scoring at
the rim and out of the gates. He's attacking close
(33:09):
outs at a high level. He's getting downhill at will,
he's finishing through contact. Tatum scores four points the rest
of the game, like Jaln Brown scores ten points total
in this game. One I thought they had a couple
of possessions where just bad decisions and bad like ugly
turnovers that are just inexcusable. But the bigger thing to
(33:30):
me is that in the second quarter is Dallas is slowly, slowly,
slowly pulling away and it's like, uh, oh, it's time
to hit the panic button. Tatum and Brown just like
let it pass them by again. It's not really again.
I think Luca and Kyrie on the night to night
basis are probably more consistent than both these guys offensively,
(33:53):
and I like their skill sets more than Brown and
Tatum for sure. But it's just realizing the gravity of
the situation and going all right, man, Holliday's not hitting
Jack all right, man, Derek White's playing it every three.
We gotta get downhill, we gotta take over right now,
and I'll cut him a little slack. Boston did miss
a lot of point blank layups. They did miss a
lot of open freeze in this game. But it's really
(34:16):
Tatum and Brown's passivity that left me the most disappointed.
Like they've been great, or excuse me. Brown has been
great in these first three games. Tatum has been so
so well. We got out of Tatum in the first quarter.
I thought he was gonna crank it up a notch.
I thought we were gonna get aggressive Tatum all game long,
and slowly, slowly, he just fadess away. And I hate
that about Tatum. We've seen that consistently enough where it's
(34:38):
like that's one of the knocks on Tatum. It's you know,
it's not just all his three was off tonight, or
all his mid range game was off. He disappeared. It's
the Homer Simpson meme. Man, he just went into the
the bushes, was gone. He never showed back up. And
Jaylen Brown same thing. He had some moments in transition,
but it's like consistently in the half court. Ah, we'll
just let this possession pass us by. So really, everything
(35:00):
from Boston was all their bad tendencies. It was early
shot clock threes. It was Tatum and Brown being passive.
It was bad, costly, ugly turnovers. It's them not finishing
possessions on the glass due to effort. It's all of
Boston's bad tendencies coming to light on the biggest stage.
But the area I was most disappointed by far had
to be Tatum and Brown's passivity. These are two guys
(35:22):
I consider to be stars, maybe not superstars, Carson right,
I don't know if either of these guys are top
ten to me, but they're top twenty for sure. You know,
top twenty five locked, both of these guys. And I
just can't have two top twenty five guys be this
passive offensively when you need them your offensive sancing guys,
(35:44):
you're offensive, crumbling, and you're nowhere to be seen. That's
where I was most disappointed with Boston.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
It was definitely rough from both of these guys, and
I totally agree with you when it comes to season
control of the game because although they were both very
much struggling to get downhill with the same sort of
ease and so they weren't getting the same good looks.
Your offense can't devolve into Drew Holliday being the guy
trying to create an isolation, like, if anything, it has
(36:13):
to be Derek White. Derek White is the awesome pick
and roll ballhandler, like he's the better creator in those spots.
Drew is so great at doing everything away from the ball,
everything to compliment, but he really really struggled dictating offense,
and they did just kind of let that happen. So
that's my biggest frustration with Boston. You had a really
rough game and you missed some good looks from three, absolutely,
(36:35):
but also Dallas took you out of your comfort zone.
But you have to stay strong to your principles. It's
something that up to this point, on both sides of
the ball, Boston has done. They have believed in their
strengths and their identity. This game, they went away from that.
They stopped trying to put that sort of pressure with
the drive and kick game, and it just led to
some really bad results offensively. And you can't overreact to
(36:57):
this game, because if I were a betting man, I
would bet on Boston closing this out in five. If
I were a betting man, I would bet a whole, whole,
whole lot of money on Boston winning this series. And
they deserve a lot of credit for everything that they've
done this season. I do think, though, and we talk
about this a lot, there is such a tendency to
(37:17):
conflate a team's best players with the team result and
just say, Okay, the best guy on the best team
is the best player some version of that, and I
think we've seen that a little bit with Jalen Brown recently,
along with Jason Tatum. I love Jalen Brown. I love
Jalen Brown. Listen, I had cal Bears season tickets. But
(37:37):
he's been playing the best basketball of his life. He
deserves a bunch of credit once people start talking about
him knocking on the door of like top ten conversations though,
that's where I just want to zoom out again and
understand the Boston Celtics are an amazing team because they
have a top ten player in Jason Tatum, not a
top five player, a top ten player, a top twentiest
player in Jalen Brown, and then three more top fifty players,
(38:00):
and al Is playing like a top seventy five player.
Speaker 4 (38:03):
Like that is what in their benches playing well.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
They have an overwhelming amount of aggregate talent, and we
don't necessarily have to push up every individual guy because
the team is dominating. They're dominating because they are a
great team. And I just think, again, some of those
things got a little bit out of hand with some
of the Jalen conversations. As great as he has been playing,
I do still think he's improved as a playmaker. You're
(38:28):
not getting consistent high end stuff there. He's been great
as a scorer in this playoff run. He's not normally
this efficient.
Speaker 4 (38:34):
In that role.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
I love the guy, He's a really really good number two,
but this was a rough game for him.
Speaker 4 (38:41):
It was a rough game for Tatum.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
And just purely when we're talking about the league's absolute
best duos, like, no, they're not a top to top
three duo to me, they're in that next group. They're
really really good, but they are the lead duo for
an amazingly talented basketball team. But when we talk about
not overreacting to this one, a major factor was just
the urgency. Dallas came out with one thousand times the urgency.
(39:03):
Everybody played well. Dudes who have been breaking wide open
threes started hitting them. Boston came out with no urgency
and nobody played well. So that's the reality this basketball game.
When you're up three to zero, generally, it's a good
bit harder to finish a team off if they are
going to play with pride on their home floor and
effort than it is for them to pull out that
one win. So you don't want to overreact to this
(39:26):
if you're Boston, and I really really don't think it'll
cost them, But it is still disappointing to just get
beaten down like that and really have no response. So
where they need to be better, more connected defensively, in
just a more intense defensive effort. Overall, I thought Jason
Tatum actually wasn't very good on that side of the
ball tonight. Nobody was great, and again the weak points
(39:47):
were exploited more so than we've seen. It's incredible how
Derek White, all defense guard has become like one of
the couple of dudes you want to go at because
it's not Al Horford Al Horford logan guarding Luke and Kyrie.
Through the first three games of this year, they shot
like twenty seven percent against him, and that was on
high volume.
Speaker 4 (40:03):
They had been going at him. Shout out to Big Al, incredible.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
What he's done defensively in this series, but you need
to see a much better defensive effort from Boston. Also,
they did blitz Kyrie like one time in this game
and it led to a really easy attack for Luke
off the catch. I do think they need to stick
to their principles and their system, not overhelping, not over
committing there and then when it comes to how they
can get back to what they did so well offensively,
(40:28):
as we talked about, don't let your process break down,
stick to that drive and kick game. When it comes
to targeting weak points, maybe you want to target Kyrie
more now than Luca, just because with Lucas's size, he
can hold up in terms of physicality on some of
those drives better, whereas with Kyrie, you have such a
significant size advantage that you can go back to the basket.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
You can go through them a little bit more easily.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
Although I will say he defended Jason Tatum pretty well
on a couple of isolations today. But Tatum can force
that switch as a screener and then get a seal
and get a very easy cut and basically a wide
open layup. We've seen that in each of the last
two games. I do think I would probably go more
at Kyrie because of that sis factor and Jason and
Jalen need to keep on being aggressive. Those are the
(41:10):
things to me. They're all pretty easy to execute, and
if Dallas defends much better, then that makes things harder,
but it doesn't mean.
Speaker 4 (41:18):
That things have to go like they did tonight.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Yeah, I agree with all of those keys. I have
two more to add for Boston. One on offense. I
think you see a lot tonight Lively or Gafford are
out on the perimeter because Boston is running that five
out and they're matched up with you know, Holiday, or
they're matched up with whoever. There were so many times
in this game where the paint is wide open and
I'm just waiting for a Boston Celtic to like flash
(41:43):
there with no big man, and I just don't think
they did that enough. Like I am consciously looking for
that in the game. If Lively is out of the paint, cool,
I'm going there with somebody like even if it doesn't,
even if you don't kick it to them on the
low block, I'm either trying to drive when Lively is
not down there and forcing him to help off, which
is gonna generate an easy look driving kick. That's what
(42:04):
Boston wants to do, or like I said, man, I'm
setting up something. I'm trying to get somebody to cut
to the paint for an easy bucket. More paint, touches,
more paint. You can't get blown out like that in
the paint. And then my final thing is really just
urgency and boxing. I need Boston to box. I was
outside of Jason Brown and I'm Jason Brown, Jaylen Brown
(42:24):
and Jason Tatum and their issues. I was most disappointed
with the collective effort on the glass, A big reason
why Boston was able to dominate those first two games.
It wasn't because of a crazy margin on that end,
but everybody is getting a body. I mean that just
stuck out on the tape, like everybody is walling up
on that end. Really poor effort from this team, especially
(42:45):
like and you got Josh Green who just got subbed
into the game, and you got four Boston players just
looking up at the rim like, oh, just waiting for
the ball to come in, and Green comes in and
takes it. There's a couple other instances with Lively. There
were a lot tonight where Boston's not putting a body
on nobody, no boxing at all. That's got to change.
I want to zoom out for one more big picture
(43:05):
kind of question, Carson. You talk about people elevating Jaln
Brown to maybe conversations where he doesn't belong, you know,
devaluing Jason Tatum. I want to talk about this whole
team because I saw somebody in the comment section brought
it up. I don't think that one game makes a team,
but I know a lot of people are can react
to this violently. Does this change to you Boston's historical
(43:29):
status as an all time basketball team, Not.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
By any significant margin, but it makes a little bit
of a difference for sure. If they had stormed through
and played four straight really good games against clearly their
toughest competition, and this run on top of the really
amazing regular season they had. I mean, that would be
a pretty unassailable season. Really, the only thing you could
(43:55):
point to is the Path in the East. But then
you would say, okay, but they ran through through those
guys and then they destroyed Dallas.
Speaker 4 (44:03):
They swept them. But it's not just they lost, like.
Speaker 3 (44:05):
They really did get destroyed in this game. So I
do think that maybe it slightly changes where they fall
in these conversations, but ultimately, that regular season resume is
one of the strongest that we've seen, and they still
very well could end up finishing this postseason with just
three games lost, which is very rare, and they're one
of the most talented teams we've seen. So I think
(44:26):
Boston's gonna end up this year being viewed as somewhere
between in my eyes, like a top fifteen, top twenty
team in NBA history. I don't think that they're going
above that in top ten. I don't think they're going
below that.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
And not to cut Boston extra slack, but and this
is kind of a like dream scenario for any team,
I think it's unrealistic because it never happens. But if
they were injury free, right, I think there's a real
argument that Boston might have just gone sixteen to zero
and not lost a single game throughout the f like
(45:00):
the level of dominance that we saw this team reach.
Speaker 4 (45:02):
But then the opponents are an injury free that's true.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
I get that's hypothetical with KP, but I don't know
the level that we saw this team reach. I just
want to also contextualize that that he is sure such
a game changer. We can brain praise on Jaylen Brown
and Jason Tatum, but we're saying just breaks the game
for those guys and opens up so much more for
them that I don't want to lose sight of that.
(45:27):
Boston at full health is a completely different version than
this team. This is their floor. This is the floor
of the Boston Celtics without Christoph porzingis Yeah, d.
Speaker 3 (45:38):
No, They're still very good without KP, but they are
absolutely a good bit better with him. KP is a
game change in talent on both sides of ball. It
should have been an All Star this year. I called
him their second best player throughout this regular season. Maybe
JB is past them with the level he's been out
in these playoffs. But it's also tough because KP's only
had limited opportunities to prove himself in the playoffs, and
he was absolutely.
Speaker 4 (45:58):
Amazing in Game one.
Speaker 3 (46:00):
So this team is really overwhelmingly talented, and that's why
I am so confident in them still finishing this out.
Their shot quality has been so much higher overall, they
have been able to find more weak points to attack Defensively,
they have way more aggregate offensive skill, the role players
are so much more reliable, and then I think they'll
significantly improve in the effort categories, because again, this is
(46:20):
like the toughest spot, even though it's the NBA Finals,
to just get yourself psyched up for a game when
you're up three to zero, you're on the road, it's
not surprising when you come out a little bit flat
given those circumstances. But I would like to see logan
one Jason Tatum game in the NBA Finals where things
are clicking for him offensively.
Speaker 4 (46:40):
Because.
Speaker 3 (46:43):
You're a little bit lower on him than I am,
but I had him as my number nine player when
we did our rankings at the end of the regular season.
I'm not a big Jason Tatum guy, and The thing
with him always is the offensive inconsistency, the rebounding impact,
the defensive impact is consistently awesome. The playmaking in this
series has been really good. In Games one and two
(47:04):
it was awesome, but the shot making and the scoring
has just been like pretty outright bad. And if people
want to put him in the top five, conversations like,
I just think there's an offensive floor with everybody else
who we have up in that tier that is substantially
different from Jason Tatum. And again, like we're looking at
(47:25):
four games, dude, and the best was last game where
he had twenty seven on eleven of twenty six shooting,
and he sucked in the fourth quarter. I did not
like the shots that he was taking. That is disappointing.
So the most important thing, of course, is that you
win a title. That's all I'm sure Boston fans care about.
But also it's like we got to make sure people
don't get out of hand with Jason Tatum stuff. And
(47:47):
this is an opportunity for him to have a moment
like he hasn't had that moment as fun as it
is to.
Speaker 4 (47:53):
Enable us switch everything defensive.
Speaker 3 (47:55):
Scheme and to make these plays that don't always show
up on the stat sheet. Like, if you're number one,
you want to have a moment, and he certainly hasn't
had one in this series. So maybe that's the silver
lining for him. He can come back in Game five
and kick some ass. We'll see if he's up to it.
Any final thoughts logan before we wrap this puppy up.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Yeah, and do it on his own floor. I mean,
what better Field do on.
Speaker 4 (48:16):
His own floor?
Speaker 3 (48:17):
Yeah, that's more fun. That's a lot more fun. The Bostonians,
I'm sure would love that. Get ring number eighteen. Separate
yourself from the Lakers for the moments people really hate
the Celtics, dude, That's what I've realized.
Speaker 4 (48:29):
Who do you think people hate more the Celtics the Lakers?
Celtics for sure.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
I also find it I find it really ironic that one,
I think it's gonna be awesome that if they do
get it done, they're gonna honor Bill Walton. But I
also find it ironic that also the year that Jerry
West pass away, the freaking Celtics are gonna win.
Speaker 4 (48:46):
The chip Man we didn't want to see that shit.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
He just yeah, he said, I'm out the Boston it's
Boston by a mile. Man, Boston, for sure, I think
that might be. Is it the most hated for me?
It probably is the most hated sports city. Like in
the United States.
Speaker 4 (49:01):
Who is definitely city? Definitely city.
Speaker 3 (49:04):
I don't hate anyone Logan that's something that a lot
of people maybe can't quite understand.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
I love him being I agree with that. I've hated
one man. I've since put it to rest, but Tom
Brady was number one on my hitlist for a very
long time.
Speaker 3 (49:19):
Yeah, I don't like the New England Patriots, but that's
because I'm a Bills fan. In basketball, there's really not
a team that I dislike. So the Celtics are a
great team. I think it'd be fun if we could
all appreciate them as a great team. Not gonna happen,
though not gonna happen. People have their blinders on for
Celtics good stuff, but Celtics bad stuff. It's like a
pack of vultures, man all over that carcass, all over
(49:40):
that carcass. Up three to zero, you have one bad game,
throwing a party. So that's kind of the reality for them.
But also Boston sports fans are crazy, spoiled and they
like to act like they're not. It's like fellas you know,
the Babe curse isn't a thing anymore. Bill Simmons tweeted
out a picture of like Marshawn Brook and a couple
(50:01):
other Celtics from twenty thirteen, and he was like, it's
been a hell of a journey. It's like, Okay, you
guys were literally bad for two seasons.
Speaker 4 (50:08):
You understand.
Speaker 3 (50:09):
You have those guys because you pulled off like the
greatest heist in league history. That then set you up
to draft your two franchise building blocks.
Speaker 4 (50:17):
Now things are going pretty well.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
He had to endure Jared Sullinger in RJ Hunter Minutes. Man,
you wouldn't get it.
Speaker 4 (50:27):
I wouldn't. I wouldn't. All right, guys, appreciate you tuning
in as always. Hope you enjoyed. If you did.
Speaker 3 (50:33):
The good news is there's plenty more Nerd Sash content.
If you enjoyed the show, throw us a little subscribe
on YouTube if you want to. We have all of
our full shows here. We'll be back after game five.
Of course, we have our video essays video breakdowns that
you can watch. I thought about doing one about Al
Horford after game three, but then I thought, who wants
to watch a video about Al Horford? So I decided
(50:55):
not to do it, but shout out big Al and
if they do get a ring, there will be a
lot of Al appreciation, which I fully expect them to do.
Speaker 4 (51:03):
So stay tuned in.
Speaker 3 (51:04):
For the Al Horford love on the podcast when the
Celtics do win the title. If you want to listen
to the show, it's across all audio platforms. You can
follow us across social TikTok, Instagram at nerd sash to
see our trivia content. To see clips on the show,
Twitter at nerd Underscore Sash. You can check out our
merch at the Volume dot com and you can join
(51:25):
our discord for a chance to speak to the one
and only Matthew spawn Hour. The link to that is
at the link tree across our social media bios. So
with that, as always appreciate you guys. I've been Carson
Braber
Speaker 1 (51:37):
I've been lugging Canton and this what's nerd Sash
The volume. Oh my god, how could he do that?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
No, don't watch.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
What Charles Darwin. The nerves is where it's at.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Welcome everybody back into Nerds set as always, I'm Carson
Forever in alongside me is logan. Kanson and the Dallas
Mavericks slogan are not done just yet.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
We know the historical president.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Nobody ever in any playoff series in NBA history has
come back from down three to zero. But the MAVs
respond with, who knows what this game will end up at.
We're recording before it's even over. Maybe a forty point
win over.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
The Boston Celtics.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
What to you was the biggest difference in the biggest
key to them just absolutely dominating this one with their
backs against the wall.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
We gotta give a ton of credit to Luka Doncic
and what he did offensively out of the gates in
this game, but we'll get to that in a minute.
I think the biggest key to Dallas dominating this game
was their defense for one, and then how they just
completely dominated the interior in basically every facet of this game.
The Celtics are held to a season low thirty five
(01:16):
points in the first half in that first half, they
have an offensive rating of seventy seven point eight, and
overall in this game they have an offensive rating of
eighty four point five. Dallas forced a lot of turnovers.
Boston recks up thirteen turnovers in meaningful basketball time. They
hold them to ten of thirty from behind the arc,
and nobody has a good game offensively for Boston. All
(01:40):
of their like stars, all of these elite guys held
below fifteen points. I don't know why I'm using quotations
they are stars.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Quote. Yeah, he has to get back on that Boston
hate trading. He hopped right.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Ude. I'm not gonna lie, brother. I hate Boston so much.
This was It's not nice. I like seeing a I
like seeing competitive basketball games. I actually did not enjoy
watching this and this is not competitive at all. Makay
Luke minutes and we got the most We got the
most racist Boston Celtics lineup of all time. Man, that
(02:15):
felt like a hate crime. At the end of this game.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
That's whatever they do.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Whenever they are just absolutely beating the ship out of you,
they throw four.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
White dudes on the floor. It's not good. Yeah, I'm
not comfortable with it.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
I I say stars. They didn't perform like stars in
today's basketball game. And and you know what, I'll push
back a little bit against Boston. They've thrown on me
in these finals, but they put up a stinker, a
clunker in this one. And a lot of that has
to do with the step up in defense that we
saw from Dallas. I built a bunch of numbers at you.
Luca plays so much better. There is so much more engaged,
(02:51):
like just trying so much defense is just effort. And
we get that from Luca in this one. But you
got to give credit to the interior and the star
of the show to me, and the one was Derek
Lively man blocking shots, working his ass off on the glass,
running in transition. He dominated this one, dude, and Dallas
fought for every board. Again, these are numbers for meaningful time,
(03:13):
not with the bench a mob out there. Dallas wins
the rebounding battle forty nine to twenty five. That's plus
twenty four. They win the offensive rebounding battle twelve to two,
that's plus ten. And in terms of points in the paint,
Carson Dallas wins the battle fifty six to eighteen. I mean,
that's disgusting work. That's the key to me, man, and
(03:34):
it shows us a really frightening floor that the Boston
Celtics have with that without Christop Sportsngis, Like that was
a big key to me that Dallas. You know, they
really shined in the paint. They didn't have a great
game last game, mostly because of Luka doncrits in the
second half and what he did defensively, but they were
able to do work inside and I'm glad Dallas focused
(03:56):
on that. Man, it seemed like there was a you know,
concerted effort to get downhill to get shots in the paint.
They open up this game with like, I think sixteen
straight points in the paint. It was something absurd like that.
But I'm glad that Dallas honed in on the inside.
To me, it was a key area where they could
win without Christops Porzingis. And they did that, man, getting downhill,
consistently getting easy looks inside, dominating the glass, making sure
(04:19):
Boston couldn't get a ton inside there. And that's what
That's what worked man. A lot better defensively, a lot
better working on the inside. And shout out to what
Luke and Kyrie did offensively. But I thought this game
was powered by how Dallas was able to dominate the
interior and on defense.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Agreed, it was really a perfect game all around for Dallas.
You could not have played any better than they did,
but it did start on the defensive end, and you
give props to Lively. I thought Lively was amazing in
this game, and I thought that he was definitely good
defensively on the interior. To me, though his most pronounced
impact was what he did on the offensive glass, so
(04:56):
sort of high effort plays. He and Gafford were good
defensively on the interior. But while they have been like
the backbone, the strong point of this Dallas defense for
so much of these playoffs, I didn't really feel like
that was the case in this one.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
I thought they did their job well.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
But to me, the biggest thing was the defense at
the point of attack, the physicality that these wings were applying,
the pressure that they were applying, and just plugging all
the holes to where they were not allowing that dribble
penetration that they have been conceding over and over again
through the first three games. And the single biggest change there,
although it was a collective improvement, is Luka doncicch logan.
(05:33):
He did a complete one to eighty defensively after playing
two abominable games defensively, the two worst defensive games that
he's played in these playoffs. In Games two and three,
he played one of, if not the best defensive games
that he has all postseason. In this one, consistently, we
saw much improved effort from him in terms of isolation defense,
(05:54):
regardless of the matchup with Jayson Tatum, with Jalen Brown
playing physically, moving his feet really well, cutting off fangles,
just cutting off those drives, forcing turnovers. I mean, Drew Holliday,
he forced to lose the handle on multiple occasions, and
that's kind of been the focus from the mainstream media.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
So to say, it's obviously been a.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Huge problem him allowing these blowbys and consistently allowing dribble
penetration when he's on the ball, But the single most
frustrating thing to me about Game three was the combination
of that with his complete obliviousness and disinterest as a
team defender, just leaving Sam Howser in the corner for
no reason on the strong side, not competing whatsoever on
(06:34):
the glass for defensive rebounds multiple times, completely losing Jalen
Brown off ball and just allowing these super easy cuts,
like you have to be engaged if you can't stay
in front of Jason Tatum and Jylen Brown because they're
more athletic than you.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
That's one thing.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Now, he did show even in this game that he
can improve there with better effort, But the biggest thing
was just not caring about how you can help be
an important part heart of this defense that constantly needs
everybody engaged and connected, and even with his limitations, like
that's what Luca was through the first three rounds. He
was an engaged team defender for the most part, with
(07:10):
a couple of games where he was off and there
was an exception to that, and that's what he was
again tonight. I thought that he was really really good
on that end, and that was exactly what this.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Team needed, and he very much answered the call. Is
it too little, too late, maybe, but.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
He improved his performance dramatically on that end, and I
just thought overall like they played their best defensive lineups.
We've talked about the lack of offensive production from their
role players and how that's been an issue, but the
reason that Jason Kidd didn't want to play THHJ through
the first two games. Didn't want to really play Jaydon
Hardy is because this team's identity around Luke and Kyrie
(07:47):
has always been about having a bunch of athletes and
a bunch of defenders.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
That's when they're at their.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Best, when those dudes can play capably offensively, and that's
what they got in this one. You get zero meaningful
Tim Hardaway Junior or Jayden Hardy, and you're getting awesome
defense and effort from Kleeba and Josh Green. They are
staying in front of these guys on their drives, they're
making high effort plays with their hands. So ultimately they
just kind of broke down the Celtics offense and you
(08:14):
got them to the point where it's not just that
you're neutralizing their drive and kick game. You're leading to
actively bad possessions where now they aren't even trying to
put that pressure on you. They're just forcing these really
tough one pass catch and shoot threes. They're forcing these
deep pull up threes, they're forcing these Drew Holiday isolations,
and he had five turnovers in this game, all of
(08:36):
the exact sort of shots you do not want if
you're the Boston Celtics. Jalen Brown's decision making I thought
was really bad in this game. He got sucked into
some really really bad shots. And so that's exactly what
you want to do. If you're the defense. You're not
just taking away their greatest strength. You're forcing them into
their worst tendencies. You are speeding them up, you are
(08:57):
forcing them into shots that they normally wouldn't take, that
they don't want to take. It's like what we saw
in Minnesota do against Denver on several occasions in that series.
Once you start getting those like quick early shot clock
Aaron Gordon catchahoot threes, that's when you know you're doing
things right defensively. And that was sort of the equivalent
of what you get from Boston in this game. They
were just totally rattled. They looked uncomfortable driving downhill. So
(09:20):
it was just a complete transformation. And that has been
in so many ways the strength of this Dallas team,
how awesome this defense has been. And they struggled to
get stops, and even though Boston's offensive rating maybe wasn't
overwhelming through the first three games, the shot quality they
created in Game two, for example, where it doesn't fall
through the first quarters of Game three was consistently awesome,
(09:42):
and that was not the case at all tonight. And
you have to give a bunch of props to Dallas
defense for that you do.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
And I think you hit on a big key there, Carson.
I don't want that to get lost in the shuffle
with this. Luke and Kyrie pull their weight offensively. A
lot of the guys are making shots. But that's the
recipe of winning for Dallas, dictating and winning the defensively.
You know, that's what we stress so much is you know,
you went on that end and then everything else will
come easy. And they did so much better walling off
(10:08):
Jaalen Brown and Jason Tatum from getting downhill containing driple penetration.
I also thought it did great. I also thought they
did a great job at recovering too. Uh. There's that
one possession where they create a pretty good advantage there initially. Yeah,
and you get two swing passes to Tatum top of
the key. Two guys are going to the basketball. At
the end of that shot clock, Tatum has to kick
(10:30):
back out to Horford. It's just there was a different
kind of level of engagement from this team that we
just didn't get in. I think you hit a key
there too.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
Man.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
We're not asking Luka Doncic to be an all world defender.
We're not asking him to come out there and play
a game like Drew Holliday. We're asking him to be
a key, important cog in the defense, and he can
do that. I think you're right the media not that
we overblew it in Game three, right. I think Luca
got rightfully chastised for his effort and engagement defensively in
(11:01):
Game three. But I think it got a little overblown
where some people were doing this revisionist history sort of
deal with the earlier rounds where it's, oh, Luca was
so bad and this and and and that was just
not the case at all. Like, you're right, he had
one or two games where you can, you know, be
critical of him, but consistently Luca was a good isolation
defender and was pretty engaged. Like Game three was just
(11:23):
the one instance where you know, we.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Saw Game two he was awful to it's been this series,
this series, he's been really awful. But I totally agree
with you, because then people started doing the thing where
it's Luca's been awful defensively all playoffs.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
He's the worst defender in the league.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
That's just not true. This was a series in which
he had been awful, and this game doesn't change how
bad he was over the first three games and the
fact that did cost this team. But I totally am
with you on this sort of retroactive rewriting of history.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
That just isn't fair.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Because we get caught up in the moment, and it's
just important to remember what this team can look like
when and everybody is locked in there, like we got
engaged Luca, and guess what when we got engaged Luca,
look at what ripple effect that causes with everybody else.
You can win convincingly possession to possession on defense, and
they just did it. Man. I also want to give
a ton of credit to Luca offensively. Lucas three was
(12:17):
not falling in this game. He goes oh four in
the first half, he goes oh four in the second half,
and he didn't let that stop him. One he got
away from that shot. It wasn't falling, and he didn't say, hey,
let me take nine more.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
No, what did he do?
Speaker 1 (12:31):
He got to his pump, fake more. He looked to fouls,
but he also just got down hill at will Man.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
He got what he.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Wanted in the paint, and that's where I was most
satisfied with Dallas's offenses. Again, I talk about Christops not
being out there offensively or defensively for Boston. That's a
clear advantage that Dallas has, and credit to Jason Kidd
and this team. They have been great at capitalizing on
advantages consistently when they rise within series right. Dallas has
(12:57):
typically had games where they've been off, but if you
give them a sliver, if you give them something they
can attack. Dallas has been pretty good at changing up
their game plan and going at it, and I thought
they did a phenomenal job. Luca deserves amts amount of
credit what he just does individually twenty five points in
the first half ten of eighteen shooting. It's like he
just had this feeling where he's gonna get what he wants.
(13:17):
It doesn't matter who you put on him, He's gonna
get to his spot. He's gonna knock down a shot.
But Kyrie also did a great job of getting downhill
twenty one to four and six in this game ten
of eighteen. He also struggles from behind the arc That's
where I was way more happier with Dallas's offense and
their offensive process. And you just see how it opens
everything else up for this offense, creating open, easy looks
(13:38):
for shooters, you know, more diverting more attention to the
interior because of what Kyrie and Luca were doing offensively.
Here's just a smarter game plan. And Carson, frankly, we'll
get into, you know, Christops and all that. I don't
really buy that Porzingis is going to be available the
rest of this series. They said, Missoula comes out and
says he's available for this game. I think that's smoke.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Like, no, dude, he said he's not quite ready, but
available for certain situations.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
Like what does that even mean?
Speaker 3 (14:07):
You're just trying to have the idea in the MAVs
head that ooh, he might appear out of a cloud
of smoke, like he's the undertaker.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
He's not gonna play.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yeah, that we could deploy him at any moment when
it's contageous for us guys. I think that is all bs.
I don't think KP has a single chance at coming
back in this game. And so on the bright side
for Dallas, look down three to zero. This has never
happened in NBA history. Before you get the game that
you need. The bright side is you have a tangible
area to attack a week point on Boston, and that's
(14:38):
the bright side. I'm not saying that I think this
is a you know all, we're gonna see the first
ever come back in NBA Finals history, at first ever
comeback from three to zero and NBA Playoffs history. But
there is a tangible area the Dallas can attack and
win at offensively and defensively, and that's encouraging. I don't
really buy for a second that bor Sengis is gonna
come back in this series.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
No, I definitely do not think that we see him,
which sucks because he was playing awesome and I love
his game. But that's just the reality here from my
perspective as a doctor. Keep in mind as a medical doctor,
that is what I'm saying. Luca was fantastic in this game.
Offensively is always going to be his strength, of course,
but we talk about the defensive improvement. It was a
masterpiece offensively, and eleven of his twelve field goals came
(15:22):
in the paint. You mentioned that the three ball was
off and he just didn't let that affect his dominance,
and specifically it was the relentless hunting of the matchups
that he wanted, Like when he got that Derek White matchup,
he was going to bully him all the way to
the rim. If he got a potential cross match against
Drew Holiday in transition went Downhill attacked him. But specifically
(15:45):
it was Sam Houser who he was just going at
over and over, and he can get to his spots
effortlessly in a matchup like that, Like Howser had defended
him relatively well in the limited possessions that we saw
through the first three games. But when Luca commits to
being super physical there and he can just weaponize that
change in pace of his he's gonna win that matchup
(16:07):
a vast majority of the time, and he absolutely did
in this one. They just could not keep him from
chiseling his way into those little floaters a What makes
Luca one of the greatest offensive players that we've ever seen,
among other things, of course, the pull up shooting and
the playmaking, but that physical imposition and change in pace
is so so special, and Boston's whole defensive game plan
has been We're not sending two to the ball, we're
(16:29):
not overhelping, and that's been the right game plan. But
when he's just destroying you one on one like that,
well then that's a really good result for the MAVs.
And that's just tough for Boston to stomach. And that
is one of the results of having kp out. It
means playing a Sam Hauser more just means putting more
vulnerable pieces on the floor for more minutes.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
And he was also creating.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Good shots for his teammates, not at like a ludicrous volume,
but he was in complete control offensively. I thought played
a phenomenal game there. And you talk about the criticism.
Obviously it was extremely, extremely loud. And it's funny because
we obviously do our reactions immediately postgame, so we come
in here say our piece. We both ragged on Luca
for his defense, reamed him, and then you see, okay, wow,
(17:15):
that's what a lot of people did. You see the
windy thing, and then you see it progress over like
the next couple of days in the media cycle where
it's all anybody's talking about. I saw a specific ESPN
ticker point that was referring to Luca's defense getting exploited.
It had the blowby stat like this isn't during a show,
this is just you know, where you see news, like
where you see the results of a NASCAR race or whatever.
(17:36):
And I was like, this is definitely dominating the news cycle,
and deservedly so because of how bad he was.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
But it was a phenomenal.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Response to that criticism, and I do think some of
that criticism went too far. Once you take it beyond
the scope of this is where he has let you
down in this series, this is where he let you
down in this game, you start to get some takes.
As we talked about the revisionist history with his whole
defense claiming he can't pop will be a top three guy,
revisiting the him versus Tatum conversation, there was a take
from our big boss man, Colin Coward, who I love
(18:06):
and have immense respect for. But then I thought went
way too far where he talks about Luca being like
a better version of Melo, which I think is just
wrong for multiple reasons.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
I guess I'll get into them.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
First of all, Melo being a low efficiency scorer, being
a bad playmaker, whereas Luca is again a guy who
blends this all time combination of imposing himself downhill with
elite shot making with elite playmaking, which makes him one
of like the tennis best offensive players we've ever seen.
That's in a completely different stratosphere from Melo. And then
(18:41):
in terms of the defensive stuff, the emotional stuff, I
just don't think we can really put Luca in a
hole there and say, Okay, this is who you are,
because he is twenty five, and it's rare to see
dudes at twenty five in this spot. And that doesn't
mean that it's not disappointing because I went off on
this dude after Game three, because it's super disappointing. When
(19:03):
you see the most apathetic defensive effort that I can
think of from a superstar in the NBA Finals, you
have to understand the gravity of that moment, not just
in game four. You don't get a bunch of flowers
that wipes everything away. You got to understand that the
entire time. But to me, this did show that he
can't learn for moments like this, and we've seen that
theme to some extent throughout these playoffs of Luca having
(19:26):
the games where he's disengaged defensively. Game one against LA.
He was getting absolutely torched off those switches against James Harden.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
Then what happened.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
He came back in game two, played his best defensive
game of that series. Game four against OKC, when they
let that lead slip away and Luca was complaining and
whining and super mad about the physicality.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
What happened. He snapped into focus.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
The next game he did no kimplaining he played an
awesome basketball game. This was another one of those moments
for him, and listen, it's gonna end up being too little,
too late, But when we think about his arc, what
he can grow into as a basketball player in that context,
I do think that it's encouraging because he's an all
time great talent. Offensively, the ability will never ever be
in question because even defensively, he can play at that
(20:09):
fine level where he's not actively hurting you. He just
has to care, he has to try, He has to
play with the effort that you need from your best
player in the NBA Finals, and he did that in
this one. So of course the burden on him has
been great. And there's a bunch of Luca fans who
I'm sure are super pissed about how people have talked
about him over the last couple of games, But that
(20:30):
is what comes with the expectations that Luca has earned
by being one of the most talented basketball players that
we've ever seen. The standard for him is higher than
it is for Jason Tatum, and Tatum, of course, has
done the things to impact winning when a shot has
been off, but that certainly doesn't make him a better
player than Luca Donches because the gap offensively is absolutely massive.
(20:51):
Like I think there's a big gap between those two
as NBA players, but you do have that standard as
Luca and specifically when your shortcoming is your effort and focus,
that's what's so disappointing.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
That's why you have to get on him. And in
this moment, he absolutely answered the call.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Yeah, And I think Luca's got that. I think he's
got that kind of Michael Jordan stuff where he like
has a chip on his shoulder and if you give
him that extra kind of fuel or motivation, he's one
of those guys that you don't want to give it
to him, you know what I mean, You don't want
to give him anything extra that he can work with.
(21:28):
And I think he took it to heart again that
doesn't excuse any of his performance in game three, And
I loved what Wendy said after Game three. I thought
he hit everything on the head. He said a lot
of the same stuff we did. I also hated his
comments in the presser. You know, it came off really
like immature after the game where he was talking about
(21:48):
c NBA finals. You know, we can't play physical six fouls.
What are you talking And it just came off really
like immature, And so I'm not excusing that at all.
But I did think everything in game five, for I
think he internalized a lot of the things that were
said about him and he changed it. I didn't see
him moaning to refs. I saw him hustling and getting
back on defense, you know what I mean. Like he
(22:11):
was a lot more under control. And there's one more
final aspect. Again, I'm not a doctor. I have not
been under the influence of any of these things that
Luca is getting shot up with. And again I don't
want to speculate on something like this. Hear me out.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
This is about too this is about to get Logan
camned in tinfoil hat I can feel it.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Do you think that they're affecting him? Adversely in any
kind of extra ways. I mean emotionally, yes, I don't.
You don't think so.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
I don't think that.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
No, Okay, I I was just like, it's just such
a drastic change to me. And it's not like we
haven't seen this in the playoffs already. We saw in
Oklahoma City series where he's crying and complaining about calls.
In the next game, he comes in completely locked in.
I just know Luca's been shot up with a bunch
of stuff to get him to power through these playoffs.
And I don't know, man, maybe it is little.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
Thing ll bro. It's not gonna be legitimately, but no,
I really don't think that's the case.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
I like chill Lucas, I like I likes I like
happy Luca.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Man, he looks he looks a lot better anyway, this
version of Luca when he gets when he can reach
that kyrie Zen kind of statement. Uh, it's for the
better of the team and for the betterment of Luka Doncic.
Tonight was a lot more controlled man, And that's all
you can ask for him, right. You can't go back
and play that game over again. You can't go back,
and all you can do is make the current situation better,
(23:36):
and he did all of the questions, all of the criticisms.
Luke answered that emphatically with his first quarter, with our
first half, excuse me, and with his defensive performance top
to bottom, and with his demeanor everything that we were critical.
Loving Game three, I was really satisfied with what we
got from lucas just a really good answer from a
question that left me or from a game that left
(23:56):
me really disappointed.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Absolutely, but he has to be at that level consistently,
and that's where it's like we're praising him for this game.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
Keep in mind, that does not mean that over.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
The course of this series he has not been disappointing
and costly in the effort categories on the defensive side
of the ball, because of course he overall absolutely has been,
and that has been the focus of the MAVs discourse.
And while Luca's defense was a big problem, and there's
sort of the given reality going into this series, Boston
is way more talented.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
So you need your two stars of your.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Dallas to be way better than Boston's best two guys.
You need them to like be overwhelmingly great in terms
of their impact on the game. That's just understood. But
even within that understanding, on top of Luca's defensive struggles,
these role players for Dallas, who are much more limited
compared to Boston's had also like really underperformed even for
(24:51):
their standards, had really really struggled. And I thought that
that dynamic was very different in this game. And the
biggest guy who deserves credit there is Eric Lively. I
just thought his activity was absolutely sensational. Seven offensive rebounds
in this game, just maniacal in his.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
Pursuit of the ball.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
And as we've talked about Boston's ability to switch, everything
means that you're not gonna get those easy roles for
the Dallas biggs because they're not getting behind you. But
what it does allow is for them to have these
advantages on the offensive glass against these smaller players off
of switches. And you absolutely saw Lively take full advantage
of that.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
And he's had a couple sequences in this game.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
There was one in the first half where he hits
the corner three, which was absolutely insane. Made me do
like a cartoon, rub my eyes to make sure that
I wasn't seeing things. I wanted to reach for my spectacles,
which don't exist. That was insane his first career three.
Then on the other end, blows up an Xavier Tilmann
attempt around the rim, then gets back. In transition, Kyrie
(25:50):
throws him a lob. Tatum gets lost a little bit emphatic,
finished big momentum play.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
He had another.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Sequence where Darre Jones Junior just like dribbled the ball
off his feet. Who was there to the fifty to
fifty ball? It was Lively. He picks it up, finds
a wide open Kyrie from beyond the arc. Kyrie misses,
and then it's Lively who was there for the offensive rebound.
Just making play after play, and that differential on the glass,
that differential in terms of effort to fifty to fifty
balls was reflected across the board between these two teams.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
But Lively was the single biggest difference maker there.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
And I just think he's already so special in terms
of his impact for a rookie, and he can be
a really awesome player. But I want to give promps
to Josh Green, who defended really well. He made some
of those high for plays, forcing a jump ball, stripping
Jason Tatum, getting an offensive rebound. Dante Exem gave you
good minutes in this one, hitting above the break three,
which we know has been like the holy grail for
the mass supporting cast when they can do that. He
(26:43):
stole a rebound from a Celtic. Maxi Kleeba comes in
hits a corner three. He was defending very well. He
deflects a pass into a steal. Like all of those dudes,
impacted the games with their defense, with their effort, and
then also made their open shots, which which they hadn't
been able to do through the first three games of
this series when this was an actual NBA game. I
(27:05):
stopped paying attention after that point. But like before the
starters were pulled, PJ darre Jones, Junior Kliba, Lively, and
Dante Exem had combined to go six of nine from deep.
It's not high volume, but it's obviously amazing efficiency, and
that's just a massive improvement because that has ultimately been
this team's biggest limitation, just the complete lack of production
(27:26):
from those guys. Boston's ability to say, okay, Kyrie and Luca,
you have to do everything, and just living with the
reality that you're not getting creation from anywhere else. And
even when those guys had gotten good looks they were
not making them. They really stepped up to the task
in this game. And again it's gonna be a case
ultimately of too little, too late. You're still down three
to one to a better team with home court advantage.
(27:48):
But they also answered the call in this one.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Yeah, they did the above the breakthrees on and that
was It's like when the floodgates open up, man, when
everything's going right and then the pressures off and then
they can just start draining threes, but huge impacts.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
I also, I mean it's jarn Glively hits a three.
You know that it's just one of those days. It's
like Xavier Tillman last game for the Celtics.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Also, the one more play that I wanted to mention
it gets called back. Lively has that short role kick
out to ExHAM for that open three, and you know
they ended up calling it back because Excells football was
on the line. You got great minutes and I would
turn to Exemon Green more in this series. Apparently, I
think Twitter said Tim Hardaway Junior ended up knocking down
(28:31):
five threes. I don't care. Also, a part of the
floodgates in the fourth quarter.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
Guards a time empty stats.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
That's the most Tim Hardaway Junior mess ever.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
All right, THCHJ, We're gonna play you nineteen minutes in
a crucial Game three because we need an injection of offense.
He goes zero for five and gets attacked defensively. THHJA,
we're up thirty five. He goes crazy.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Yeah, everything, I'm going Exemon Green the rest of the series.
I think they gave them great minutes. I also think
X I love what Excellent brings like offensively in terms
of extra ball handling, pushing and transition. I think it's
a really valuable thing to have, just because there's so much.
All the other guys are limited, and then Green just
brings another dimension. Defensively, those guys are obviously always question
(29:16):
marks in terms of what they're gonna do shooting wise,
but I think they bring enough aggregate value in other
areas where I'm giving those guys minutes over the likes
of Hardy or Tim Hardaway Junior. There's no doubt in
my mind those are the guys that have given minutes too,
and they played well enough.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
Man, Yeah, I am.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Pretty disappointed in Boston. Do you want to get into
that or you want to hold off.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Let's take a quick break and then we'll talk about
the Boston side of this where they need to improve,
after of course, some quick words from DraftKings.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
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Speaker 3 (31:15):
I can't help but notice the volume of my hair
and that draft came bad, Logan, Be honest.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
Do you think I look British with this haircut? Picture?
Speaker 1 (31:22):
You post it on Twitter?
Speaker 3 (31:23):
You do look British as you don't look British, bro,
I think I'm a Propageese mate.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Roll Yeah, dude, the cut does look British.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
Yeah, it's all right. I don't have much margin with
my complexion. I mean Obviously there's a good bit of
Scottish and Irish in here, but the cut is definitely
making me look British. Anyways, that's something that I'm grappling with.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
You get a puffer on it's over, I think you
could convert.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
I mean that would be tough. That would be tough.
I would love to rock the puffer. Let's talk about
the Boston side of this, because Dallas obviously was awesome,
but it was all also super disappointing from Boston. What's
you was the biggest issue on their end.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Yeah, there were a lot of issues containing dribble, penetration,
reliably ending possessions. I mentioned the rebounding, discrepancy and meaningful minutes.
They get out rebounded by twenty four. They allowed Dallas
to grab twelve offensive rebounds, they get out rebounded by ten. There,
Luke and Kyrie were getting what they wanted. It will.
Some of that is attacking smart mismatches on their end,
(32:26):
and some of that is Boston being apathetic defensively. My
biggest issue was probably Boston offensively and really what we
got from Tatum and Brown. Tatum opened this game up
and I thought we were going to get a great
Jason Tatum game. Maybe not shooting the ball, but what
he was doing getting downhill. He had eleven points in
(32:48):
the first quarter, was finishing really well at the rim
through contact. And if you know anything about Jason Tatum,
that's arguably the biggest area where he struggled. And his
jumper's been horrible in these playoffs. His three ball has
been horrible in these playoffs. Right, There's been a lot
of areas Jason Tatum has struggled scoring offensively, but he's
always kind of struggled a little bit. It's scoring at
the rim and out of the gates. He's attacking close
(33:09):
outs at a high level. He's getting downhill at will,
he's finishing through contact. Tatum scores four points the rest
of the game, like Jaln Brown scores ten points total
in this game. One I thought they had a couple
of possessions where just bad decisions and bad like ugly
turnovers that are just inexcusable. But the bigger thing to
(33:30):
me is that in the second quarter is Dallas is slowly, slowly,
slowly pulling away and it's like, uh, oh, it's time
to hit the panic button. Tatum and Brown just like
let it pass them by again. It's not really again.
I think Luca and Kyrie on the night to night
basis are probably more consistent than both these guys offensively,
(33:53):
and I like their skill sets more than Brown and
Tatum for sure. But it's just realizing the gravity of
the situation and going all right, man, Holliday's not hitting
Jack all right, man, Derek White's playing it every three.
We gotta get downhill, we gotta take over right now,
and I'll cut him a little slack. Boston did miss
a lot of point blank layups. They did miss a
lot of open freeze in this game. But it's really
(34:16):
Tatum and Brown's passivity that left me the most disappointed.
Like they've been great, or excuse me. Brown has been
great in these first three games. Tatum has been so
so well. We got out of Tatum in the first quarter.
I thought he was gonna crank it up a notch.
I thought we were gonna get aggressive Tatum all game long,
and slowly, slowly, he just fadess away. And I hate
that about Tatum. We've seen that consistently enough where it's
(34:38):
like that's one of the knocks on Tatum. It's you know,
it's not just all his three was off tonight, or
all his mid range game was off. He disappeared. It's
the Homer Simpson meme. Man, he just went into the
the bushes, was gone. He never showed back up. And
Jaylen Brown same thing. He had some moments in transition,
but it's like consistently in the half court. Ah, we'll
just let this possession pass us by. So really, everything
(35:00):
from Boston was all their bad tendencies. It was early
shot clock threes. It was Tatum and Brown being passive.
It was bad, costly, ugly turnovers. It's them not finishing
possessions on the glass due to effort. It's all of
Boston's bad tendencies coming to light on the biggest stage.
But the area I was most disappointed by far had
to be Tatum and Brown's passivity. These are two guys
(35:22):
I consider to be stars, maybe not superstars, Carson right,
I don't know if either of these guys are top
ten to me, but they're top twenty for sure. You know,
top twenty five locked, both of these guys. And I
just can't have two top twenty five guys be this
passive offensively when you need them your offensive sancing guys,
(35:44):
you're offensive, crumbling, and you're nowhere to be seen. That's
where I was most disappointed with Boston.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
It was definitely rough from both of these guys, and
I totally agree with you when it comes to season
control of the game because although they were both very
much struggling to get downhill with the same sort of
ease and so they weren't getting the same good looks.
Your offense can't devolve into Drew Holliday being the guy
trying to create an isolation, like, if anything, it has
(36:13):
to be Derek White. Derek White is the awesome pick
and roll ballhandler, like he's the better creator in those spots.
Drew is so great at doing everything away from the ball,
everything to compliment, but he really really struggled dictating offense,
and they did just kind of let that happen. So
that's my biggest frustration with Boston. You had a really
rough game and you missed some good looks from three, absolutely,
(36:35):
but also Dallas took you out of your comfort zone.
But you have to stay strong to your principles. It's
something that up to this point, on both sides of
the ball, Boston has done. They have believed in their
strengths and their identity. This game, they went away from that.
They stopped trying to put that sort of pressure with
the drive and kick game, and it just led to
some really bad results offensively. And you can't overreact to
(36:57):
this game, because if I were a betting man, I
would bet on Boston closing this out in five. If
I were a betting man, I would bet a whole, whole,
whole lot of money on Boston winning this series. And
they deserve a lot of credit for everything that they've
done this season. I do think, though, and we talk
about this a lot, there is such a tendency to
(37:17):
conflate a team's best players with the team result and
just say, Okay, the best guy on the best team
is the best player some version of that, and I
think we've seen that a little bit with Jalen Brown recently,
along with Jason Tatum. I love Jalen Brown. I love
Jalen Brown. Listen, I had cal Bears season tickets. But
(37:37):
he's been playing the best basketball of his life. He
deserves a bunch of credit once people start talking about
him knocking on the door of like top ten conversations though,
that's where I just want to zoom out again and
understand the Boston Celtics are an amazing team because they
have a top ten player in Jason Tatum, not a
top five player, a top ten player, a top twentiest
player in Jalen Brown, and then three more top fifty players,
(38:00):
and al Is playing like a top seventy five player.
Speaker 4 (38:03):
Like that is what in their benches playing well.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
They have an overwhelming amount of aggregate talent, and we
don't necessarily have to push up every individual guy because
the team is dominating. They're dominating because they are a
great team. And I just think, again, some of those
things got a little bit out of hand with some
of the Jalen conversations. As great as he has been playing,
I do still think he's improved as a playmaker. You're
(38:28):
not getting consistent high end stuff there. He's been great
as a scorer in this playoff run. He's not normally
this efficient.
Speaker 4 (38:34):
In that role.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
I love the guy, He's a really really good number two,
but this was a rough game for him.
Speaker 4 (38:41):
It was a rough game for Tatum.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
And just purely when we're talking about the league's absolute
best duos, like, no, they're not a top to top
three duo to me, they're in that next group. They're
really really good, but they are the lead duo for
an amazingly talented basketball team. But when we talk about
not overreacting to this one, a major factor was just
the urgency. Dallas came out with one thousand times the urgency.
(39:03):
Everybody played well. Dudes who have been breaking wide open
threes started hitting them. Boston came out with no urgency
and nobody played well. So that's the reality this basketball game.
When you're up three to zero, generally, it's a good
bit harder to finish a team off if they are
going to play with pride on their home floor and
effort than it is for them to pull out that
one win. So you don't want to overreact to this
(39:26):
if you're Boston, and I really really don't think it'll
cost them, But it is still disappointing to just get
beaten down like that and really have no response. So
where they need to be better, more connected defensively, in
just a more intense defensive effort. Overall, I thought Jason
Tatum actually wasn't very good on that side of the
ball tonight. Nobody was great, and again the weak points
(39:47):
were exploited more so than we've seen. It's incredible how
Derek White, all defense guard has become like one of
the couple of dudes you want to go at because
it's not Al Horford Al Horford logan guarding Luke and Kyrie.
Through the first three games of this year, they shot
like twenty seven percent against him, and that was on
high volume.
Speaker 4 (40:03):
They had been going at him. Shout out to Big Al, incredible.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
What he's done defensively in this series, but you need
to see a much better defensive effort from Boston. Also,
they did blitz Kyrie like one time in this game
and it led to a really easy attack for Luke
off the catch. I do think they need to stick
to their principles and their system, not overhelping, not over
committing there and then when it comes to how they
can get back to what they did so well offensively,
(40:28):
as we talked about, don't let your process break down,
stick to that drive and kick game. When it comes
to targeting weak points, maybe you want to target Kyrie
more now than Luca, just because with Lucas's size, he
can hold up in terms of physicality on some of
those drives better, whereas with Kyrie, you have such a
significant size advantage that you can go back to the basket.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
You can go through them a little bit more easily.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
Although I will say he defended Jason Tatum pretty well
on a couple of isolations today. But Tatum can force
that switch as a screener and then get a seal
and get a very easy cut and basically a wide
open layup. We've seen that in each of the last
two games. I do think I would probably go more
at Kyrie because of that sis factor and Jason and
Jalen need to keep on being aggressive. Those are the
(41:10):
things to me. They're all pretty easy to execute, and
if Dallas defends much better, then that makes things harder,
but it doesn't mean.
Speaker 4 (41:18):
That things have to go like they did tonight.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Yeah, I agree with all of those keys. I have
two more to add for Boston. One on offense. I
think you see a lot tonight Lively or Gafford are
out on the perimeter because Boston is running that five
out and they're matched up with you know, Holiday, or
they're matched up with whoever. There were so many times
in this game where the paint is wide open and
I'm just waiting for a Boston Celtic to like flash
(41:43):
there with no big man, and I just don't think
they did that enough. Like I am consciously looking for
that in the game. If Lively is out of the paint, cool,
I'm going there with somebody like even if it doesn't,
even if you don't kick it to them on the
low block, I'm either trying to drive when Lively is
not down there and forcing him to help off, which
is gonna generate an easy look driving kick. That's what
(42:04):
Boston wants to do, or like I said, man, I'm
setting up something. I'm trying to get somebody to cut
to the paint for an easy bucket. More paint, touches,
more paint. You can't get blown out like that in
the paint. And then my final thing is really just
urgency and boxing. I need Boston to box. I was
outside of Jason Brown and I'm Jason Brown, Jaylen Brown
(42:24):
and Jason Tatum and their issues. I was most disappointed
with the collective effort on the glass, A big reason
why Boston was able to dominate those first two games.
It wasn't because of a crazy margin on that end,
but everybody is getting a body. I mean that just
stuck out on the tape, like everybody is walling up
on that end. Really poor effort from this team, especially
(42:45):
like and you got Josh Green who just got subbed
into the game, and you got four Boston players just
looking up at the rim like, oh, just waiting for
the ball to come in, and Green comes in and
takes it. There's a couple other instances with Lively. There
were a lot tonight where Boston's not putting a body
on nobody, no boxing at all. That's got to change.
I want to zoom out for one more big picture
(43:05):
kind of question, Carson. You talk about people elevating Jaln
Brown to maybe conversations where he doesn't belong, you know,
devaluing Jason Tatum. I want to talk about this whole
team because I saw somebody in the comment section brought
it up. I don't think that one game makes a team,
but I know a lot of people are can react
to this violently. Does this change to you Boston's historical
(43:29):
status as an all time basketball team, Not.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
By any significant margin, but it makes a little bit
of a difference for sure. If they had stormed through
and played four straight really good games against clearly their
toughest competition, and this run on top of the really
amazing regular season they had. I mean, that would be
a pretty unassailable season. Really, the only thing you could
(43:55):
point to is the Path in the East. But then
you would say, okay, but they ran through through those
guys and then they destroyed Dallas.
Speaker 4 (44:03):
They swept them. But it's not just they lost, like.
Speaker 3 (44:05):
They really did get destroyed in this game. So I
do think that maybe it slightly changes where they fall
in these conversations, but ultimately, that regular season resume is
one of the strongest that we've seen, and they still
very well could end up finishing this postseason with just
three games lost, which is very rare, and they're one
of the most talented teams we've seen. So I think
(44:26):
Boston's gonna end up this year being viewed as somewhere
between in my eyes, like a top fifteen, top twenty
team in NBA history. I don't think that they're going
above that in top ten. I don't think they're going
below that.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
And not to cut Boston extra slack, but and this
is kind of a like dream scenario for any team,
I think it's unrealistic because it never happens. But if
they were injury free, right, I think there's a real
argument that Boston might have just gone sixteen to zero
and not lost a single game throughout the f like
(45:00):
the level of dominance that we saw this team reach.
Speaker 4 (45:02):
But then the opponents are an injury free that's true.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
I get that's hypothetical with KP, but I don't know
the level that we saw this team reach. I just
want to also contextualize that that he is sure such
a game changer. We can brain praise on Jaylen Brown
and Jason Tatum, but we're saying just breaks the game
for those guys and opens up so much more for
them that I don't want to lose sight of that.
(45:27):
Boston at full health is a completely different version than
this team. This is their floor. This is the floor
of the Boston Celtics without Christoph porzingis Yeah, d.
Speaker 3 (45:38):
No, They're still very good without KP, but they are
absolutely a good bit better with him. KP is a
game change in talent on both sides of ball. It
should have been an All Star this year. I called
him their second best player throughout this regular season. Maybe
JB is past them with the level he's been out
in these playoffs. But it's also tough because KP's only
had limited opportunities to prove himself in the playoffs, and
he was absolutely.
Speaker 4 (45:58):
Amazing in Game one.
Speaker 3 (46:00):
So this team is really overwhelmingly talented, and that's why
I am so confident in them still finishing this out.
Their shot quality has been so much higher overall, they
have been able to find more weak points to attack Defensively,
they have way more aggregate offensive skill, the role players
are so much more reliable, and then I think they'll
significantly improve in the effort categories, because again, this is
(46:20):
like the toughest spot, even though it's the NBA Finals,
to just get yourself psyched up for a game when
you're up three to zero, you're on the road, it's
not surprising when you come out a little bit flat
given those circumstances. But I would like to see logan
one Jason Tatum game in the NBA Finals where things
are clicking for him offensively.
Speaker 4 (46:40):
Because.
Speaker 3 (46:43):
You're a little bit lower on him than I am,
but I had him as my number nine player when
we did our rankings at the end of the regular season.
I'm not a big Jason Tatum guy, and The thing
with him always is the offensive inconsistency, the rebounding impact,
the defensive impact is consistently awesome. The playmaking in this
series has been really good. In Games one and two
(47:04):
it was awesome, but the shot making and the scoring
has just been like pretty outright bad. And if people
want to put him in the top five, conversations like,
I just think there's an offensive floor with everybody else
who we have up in that tier that is substantially
different from Jason Tatum. And again, like we're looking at
(47:25):
four games, dude, and the best was last game where
he had twenty seven on eleven of twenty six shooting,
and he sucked in the fourth quarter. I did not
like the shots that he was taking. That is disappointing.
So the most important thing, of course, is that you
win a title. That's all I'm sure Boston fans care about.
But also it's like we got to make sure people
don't get out of hand with Jason Tatum stuff. And
(47:47):
this is an opportunity for him to have a moment
like he hasn't had that moment as fun as it
is to.
Speaker 4 (47:53):
Enable us switch everything defensive.
Speaker 3 (47:55):
Scheme and to make these plays that don't always show
up on the stat sheet. Like, if you're number one,
you want to have a moment, and he certainly hasn't
had one in this series. So maybe that's the silver
lining for him. He can come back in Game five
and kick some ass. We'll see if he's up to it.
Any final thoughts logan before we wrap this puppy up.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Yeah, and do it on his own floor. I mean,
what better Field do on.
Speaker 4 (48:16):
His own floor?
Speaker 3 (48:17):
Yeah, that's more fun. That's a lot more fun. The Bostonians,
I'm sure would love that. Get ring number eighteen. Separate
yourself from the Lakers for the moments people really hate
the Celtics, dude, That's what I've realized.
Speaker 4 (48:29):
Who do you think people hate more the Celtics the Lakers?
Celtics for sure.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
I also find it I find it really ironic that one,
I think it's gonna be awesome that if they do
get it done, they're gonna honor Bill Walton. But I
also find it ironic that also the year that Jerry
West pass away, the freaking Celtics are gonna win.
Speaker 4 (48:46):
The chip Man we didn't want to see that shit.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
He just yeah, he said, I'm out the Boston it's
Boston by a mile. Man, Boston, for sure, I think
that might be. Is it the most hated for me?
It probably is the most hated sports city. Like in
the United States.
Speaker 4 (49:01):
Who is definitely city? Definitely city.
Speaker 3 (49:04):
I don't hate anyone Logan that's something that a lot
of people maybe can't quite understand.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
I love him being I agree with that. I've hated
one man. I've since put it to rest, but Tom
Brady was number one on my hitlist for a very
long time.
Speaker 3 (49:19):
Yeah, I don't like the New England Patriots, but that's
because I'm a Bills fan. In basketball, there's really not
a team that I dislike. So the Celtics are a
great team. I think it'd be fun if we could
all appreciate them as a great team. Not gonna happen,
though not gonna happen. People have their blinders on for
Celtics good stuff, but Celtics bad stuff. It's like a
pack of vultures, man all over that carcass, all over
(49:40):
that carcass. Up three to zero, you have one bad game,
throwing a party. So that's kind of the reality for them.
But also Boston sports fans are crazy, spoiled and they
like to act like they're not. It's like fellas you know,
the Babe curse isn't a thing anymore. Bill Simmons tweeted
out a picture of like Marshawn Brook and a couple
(50:01):
other Celtics from twenty thirteen, and he was like, it's
been a hell of a journey. It's like, Okay, you
guys were literally bad for two seasons.
Speaker 4 (50:08):
You understand.
Speaker 3 (50:09):
You have those guys because you pulled off like the
greatest heist in league history. That then set you up
to draft your two franchise building blocks.
Speaker 4 (50:17):
Now things are going pretty well.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
He had to endure Jared Sullinger in RJ Hunter Minutes. Man,
you wouldn't get it.
Speaker 4 (50:27):
I wouldn't. I wouldn't. All right, guys, appreciate you tuning
in as always. Hope you enjoyed. If you did.
Speaker 3 (50:33):
The good news is there's plenty more Nerd Sash content.
If you enjoyed the show, throw us a little subscribe
on YouTube if you want to. We have all of
our full shows here. We'll be back after game five.
Of course, we have our video essays video breakdowns that
you can watch. I thought about doing one about Al
Horford after game three, but then I thought, who wants
to watch a video about Al Horford? So I decided
(50:55):
not to do it, but shout out big Al and
if they do get a ring, there will be a
lot of Al appreciation, which I fully expect them to do.
Speaker 4 (51:03):
So stay tuned in.
Speaker 3 (51:04):
For the Al Horford love on the podcast when the
Celtics do win the title. If you want to listen
to the show, it's across all audio platforms. You can
follow us across social TikTok, Instagram at nerd sash to
see our trivia content. To see clips on the show,
Twitter at nerd Underscore Sash. You can check out our
merch at the Volume dot com and you can join
(51:25):
our discord for a chance to speak to the one
and only Matthew spawn Hour. The link to that is
at the link tree across our social media bios. So
with that, as always appreciate you guys. I've been Carson
Braber
Speaker 1 (51:37):
I've been lugging Canton and this what's nerd Sash
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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