June 18, 2024 • 45 mins
Colin is joined by Jason Timpf, host of “Hoops Tonight” to break down the Celtics winning the NBA Finals in five games over the Dallas Mavericks.
They start by reflecting on what the legacy of the 2024 Boston Celtics will be (3:30) why Jaylen Brown was more deserving of the finals MVP award than Jayson Tatum (10:00), and the outlook for the Celtics moving forward (14:00).
They point to Kyrie Irving’s wild inconsistency as a huge problem for Dallas (19:00) and why the Mavericks need to make changes in order to be a true title contender (26:00). They also offer up some suggestions on the “right” star to pair with Luka Doncic (33:00)
Finally, they argue why the Celtics absolutely deserved to win the title this year (38:00) and point to which teams to look out for in 2025 (47:00)!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. All right, we are really really close to
crowning an NBA champ. I like the Celtics, by the way,
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(00:45):
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Speaker 3 (01:32):
All right, welcome to hoops tonight. You're at the volume.
Happy Monday, everybody.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
Hope all you guys are having a great start to
your week. This NBA Finals Game five Instant Reaction is
brought to you by Chase Freedom Unlimited.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
How do you cash back?
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Well, we have another NBA season in the books as
the Boston Celtics are hoisting the Lario b. We got
Colin Coward here to break it all down. We will
also react to the Finals MVP news when the report
comes down. Obviously, we're waiting on that still, But Colin,
I want to kick it to you, like this NBA
champion has this like indelible mark on the history of
(02:03):
the NBA. How will you remember the twenty twenty four
Boston Celtics.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
I think the deepest team, easily the most equipped with shooters, passers,
ball handlers. You know, you've got six players Horford, Porzingis,
Derek White, Brown, Tatum, Holiday, all really high end NBA
players that would be either a one or a two
on a lot of different teams in this league. Dallas
(02:30):
is like the Lebron James Cleveland team that got to
the finals against the Spurs. I don't really think they're close.
Lebron eventually left that team. They're just ill equipped. Listen,
they got a break. Is that Minnesota knocked out Denver,
perfectly built to beat Denver. Denver led by twenty in
the fourth, twenty points in that game and lost. Denver
matches up with Boston, maybe doesn't beat him up, matches
(02:53):
up well, Minnesota doesn't necessarily match up. Dallas absolutely doesn't
match up. They just don't have They just don't have
the wherewithal. They don't have enough players. You know, Boston's
doing this five out spread the floor. There's nothing they
can do. They can beat Mavericks off the dribble, set
up easy jumpers. I mean, it wasn't you know it
(03:16):
just throw out game four. Okay, So a team comes
out Boston comes out flat. All these games, I felt
like I was watching a championship team and a team
that could have lost in the second round of the
Western Playoffs. I think, and it's not a shot at Dallas,
but they didn't look close. This was not I mean,
there was no drama tonight. Eight minutes into the game,
(03:40):
it's over everybody for the Celtics. They were playing like
it was you know, it had sort of a regular
season feel. Everybody was loose, everybody was confident. It's not
a knock, it's just this game did not feel like
a finals game. It felt like a first round game.
Celtics were a heavy favorite, took an early lead like it.
It didn't feel like a finals game. So I thought,
(04:02):
you know, Tatum's in these kind of moments. He's such
a beautiful player. You know, he's playing with confidence, like
he's playing the Orlando Magic on a Friday night.
Speaker 5 (04:10):
He was playing at a different level.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
Yeah, I think this Celtics team is the rightful champion
this year. I think they have a great claim to
be remembered as the best team. Like we can talk
about Denver and do I think Denver would have matched
up better with Boston, of course, But the reality is
is I don't think any team had a clear cut
case like, oh, if Boston faced these guys, they were
(04:33):
gonna lose. Even with Denver. You know, they won in
the two regular season matchups. But one of the specific
things that this Boston team does extremely well is spread
you out and attack your weak points. And Denver did
have some slow footed guys, guys like Jamal Urry, nicolea
jokicch and Michael Porter Junior. Boston did not shoot well
in either regular season game against the Nuggets, and so
(04:55):
I even think that series was a lot more up
in the air than people realized.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
That those were pressure pat games. There was a lot
of talk this was a finals preview and Boston didn't
shoot particularly well. So that's a classic. That's the kind
of game that we have criticized Tatum for a big game.
Everybody knows it going in and Boston doesn't shoot particularly well.
So it's this series I felt by the second quarter
(05:22):
of Game two, I'm like, uh, it's a problem.
Speaker 5 (05:26):
Like this isn't a good matchup, This series is over,
didn't you.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
No, I totally agree, Like I thought that Dallas was
in really in some deep shit, and on both ends
of the floor in the sense that like they could
not contain the basketball. They were in rotation constantly, and
on the other end of the floor they could not
get Boston in rotation. There was nothing they could do
that made Boston overreact to anything that they were doing.
And again, like that, that's kind of like when I
(05:52):
look back at this Boston team, I think, you know,
you and I came into this season viewing it kind
of like a three team top tier is basically Denver, Boston, Milwaukee,
and then we found out pretty quickly off the top, like, actually,
Milwaukee's not very good for all the reasons we've discussed,
and it just it kind of felt like a two
team race for most of the season, and Boston survived
Denver didn't. I thought, like, you know, one of the
(06:14):
things I want to give Boston credit for, because talent
does not always win in the NBA. It does a
lot of the time, but it does not always win.
In the NBA, it's about the team that can play
the best basketball on both ends of the floor. And
so one of the things I want to give this
Boston team credit for is even though they had an
overwhelming talent advantage in every matchup, it felt like they
(06:35):
played to their capability a lot in this playoff run.
That was what was infuriating about them at times in
the in the regular season, all the criticism of Missoula Ball,
Missoula Ball, it wasn't like it was the way the Celtics.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Were playing it.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
They were taking a lot of bad shots, they weren't
being delivered about their spacing and driving and kicking for
great looks. They were playing some sloppy basketball from time
to time, and they dropped some games they shouldn't have
won or the shouldn't have lost. I think they were
I want to I want to say they were like
two to four against the the top four seeds in
the Western Conference.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
It was actually it was. It was pretty bad.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
They were pretty bad against the good teams at the
top of the West during the regular season, and a
big part of that was they were just kind of
playing beneath their potential. To their credit in this postseason run.
I thought they achieved a level of defensive intensity I
did not see from them in the last two seasons.
I thought that they guarded Dallas extremely well. I know
that you've got a stat you're going to tell us
about Dallas as scoring later, But like I thought, they
(07:31):
defended extremely well. And on the other end of the floor,
Tatum and Brown embraced their roles as driving kick guys
to get the defense in rotation. They played a great
team brand of basketball. It was fun to watch. I'll
tell you this, Colin. There were times during the regular
season where I hated watching Boston because they would just
drible up the floor and shoot a three without even
like getting a paint touch, And they played a fun
(07:52):
brand of basketball in this finals.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
I enjoyed watching them.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yeah, so let's just let's just attack the Jason Tatum things.
So you know, the Boston fans have amnesia, so Tatum's
probably gonna win. I think Jalen Brown was the more
consistent player in the series. Tatum had sixteen points in
Game one, couldn't shoot eighteen points in Game two, played
well in Game three, but Jalen Brown in Game three
had thirty points more rebounds and more assist than Tatum
(08:18):
and was just three games through this series, Brown was
the alpha. That's not disputable. Game four celticsploone out. Tatum
plays better tonight, but tonight was no pressure like the
game was over late first, early second quarter. The series
is over. I've never questioned Tatum in games like tonight.
(08:38):
I've never questioned Tatum's talent. But in the first three
games of this series, especially the first two when you're
establishing the series, Jalen Brown was clearly the best player
Boston had. That is indisputable. Those are pressure games. Tonight's
you know, Tonight's the route. Tonight's one of those games
(08:59):
we all played in high school. Maybe maybe you didn't
where you're like in halftime, you're like, I don't really
need to play. We're down by twenty eight. I don't
really need to play. Like it was a blowout. I mean,
I'm looking at my notes here. First quarter, MAVs implode
late in the quarter, down ten second quarter. This isn't close.
Celtics throwing bodies at Luca. Five guys in the floor,
(09:22):
all can shoot sixty forty two Duncan Derek White three
ugly Pritchard three, like this thing was over midway through
the second quarter. And Rory McElroy missed a putt on
Sunday at the US Open late. He didn't miss putts
on Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday early. Even in the
(09:43):
US Open, putt's late or not not puts early. Tonight's
game is a pressureless game. Once you're up by twenty,
I mean the game's over at halftime. And Tatum played
very loose. He's a beautiful player. If he wins MVP,
I'm totally happy for Jason Tatum. But let's let's be
hones in the first two games, first three, you know
(10:04):
the tone setters. Jalen Brown was the guy for the
Celtics and he also won Eastern Conference MVP. He was
the better player in that series. It's not a knock
on Tatum, but he is a player that in really
tone setting games, he leaves you wanting a little bit.
Tonight was Lucy Goosey rolling downhill. That's all I'm saying.
(10:26):
It's not a knock if he wins it. I had
the Celtics since six I've said it. He's somewhere between
the fifth and eighth best player I'm good with. I'm
not a hater, but like it's amnesia to say, oh,
MVP of the series, Like, let's go back to the
first three games. It wasn't close, That's all I said.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
I'll actually take it to put it a little bit
more aggressively, like there wasn't a single moment in this
entire playoff run where Boston was under any sort of
pressure at all whatsoever. They played three bad teams in
the Eastern Conference and then they played probably the best
matchup for them out of the West, and so that
that specifically just avoids any of like the real drama
(11:06):
that you think of when you when you think about
historical finals MVPs, you think of drama. You think of
pivotal games and Jason.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
When we have questions about Tatum, it's never talent, it's moments,
it's intensity, it's the Kobe MJ shits, tied eighty six all.
Speaker 5 (11:23):
So this series just didn't have any of that stuff.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
No, I agree, And like, as far as the finals
MVP thing goes, like I I think I personally would
be okay with either of them getting it, and the
case the case for Tatum is like I like it
when the history books tell the story of that team.
And to me, even though Jalen Brown played better than
Jason Tatum over the course of this playoff run, I
(11:47):
thought Tatum was the best player on the team for
the entirety of the season. Like I thought, yes, Tatum
was the three like And so if I look back,
and if I look back at the Wikipedia page and
it's his twenty twenty four NBA Champion, the Celtics, Jason
Tatum Finals MVP, I'm cool with that. But he was
the best player in the series one game out of
five tries. In addition to that. In addition to that,
(12:09):
I thought Jalen Brown had the biggest pivotal shots of
the series in that late game run from Dallas. In
Game two, he had the driving left handed layup over
Maxi Kleeba. In Game three when it was in crunch
time there late he hit those two massive fadeaway mid
range jump shots that kind of ic the game. I
thought he had the most iconic plays of the series.
I thought those two dunks, those two driving one handed
(12:31):
monster slams he had were like the iconic dunks of
the series. And so for me, like I'm cool with
Jason Tatum winning the award. Yeah, I believe Jalen Brown
observes it and I just deserves it. And I just
got the text message from our guy, Josh, Jalen Brown
has won Finals MVP.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
What do you have to say about that?
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Well, I think he was the better player consistently. I
think your point's the best one all the big shots
you on. I do think the first two games of
the series those are tone setters, Like like you mean,
if Dallas wins one of those games, you lose home
court advantage. And we said, both of us said coming
into the series the pressure was all on Boston. So
winning those first two games at home was not just
(13:11):
hey we protected home. It kind of made a statement.
And in both games, if not for a brief Dallas run,
they had a really good fourth quarter. If I recall
in Game two, Boston was clearly the better team. So
that the tone setting games here were games one and two,
(13:31):
and Jalen Brown was clearly the best player, And so
I think they got it right. It's nothing, you know,
I can love a player but not love a series.
I mean, remember when the meta hit the game winner
in Game seven for the Lakers over the Celtics. Kobe
was awful in Game seven. He was just just couldn't
(13:54):
hit anything. Kobe's so remarkable, he just had a horrible night.
We got to be honest about that stuff. And so
I credit the people who voted on this because I
thought Jatam Jalen Brown Eastern Conference Finals and Finals was
the better player. Tatum, to your point, on a macro level,
was the best Celtic all year. I think that's absolutely true.
(14:18):
And two things can be simultaneously true.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
Yeah, exactly, And like as far as the Jalen Brown
piece goes, I really only have a problem with the
non Superstar Finals MVP when we get into box score
watching and we start giving it to like a role player,
like that was the Travis d Yeah of the twenty
fifteen Warriors, Like Steph Curry's getting blitzed all game and
Andre Goudala is getting wide open dunks and corner threes
(14:42):
because Steph's getting blitzed. A and a Cavs team with
one star Andre Gudala held for shooting percentage and then
the voters end up suddenly giving the award to Andrea Goadala,
and I'm like, what are we doing here?
Speaker 3 (14:56):
But this is not what happened here.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Like we've discussed multiple times throughout the series, Jalen Brown
is playing at a level that is similar to Jason Tatum's,
Like he is ascending. And you know, one of the
things that I think is fascinating about that is you
and I talked in the after the Eastern Conference Finals
last year. We talked about should they look into trading
Jalen Brown, And one of the things I said, if
you remember, was I said, they have a better chance
(15:19):
of Jalen Brown improving into what they need than they
do to try to flip a player of his caliber
into a better player, which was obviously a long shot
or risky shot. And so to Boston's credit, they just
kind of like, let these guys play through their lumps.
And here comes Jalen Brown going from flat out embarrassing
(15:39):
against Miami last year he was bad against Miami last
year to being the Eastern Conference Finals MVP and the
NBA Finals MVP. And one other thing I wanted to
say before I kick it back to you, this is
what scares me about the Tatum piece moving forward. He's
not as bad offensively as he showed in this playoff run.
(16:00):
There's this thing. There's this thing that can happen in basketball.
I don't have an explanation for it. This is all
part of that whole basketball is more art than science thing.
But Tatum's been in one hell of a shooting slump
in this postseason. He's been getting like eight tenths of
a point per jump shot when he's typically a solid
twenty percent.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Better than that. And one of the things, one of
the things to keep in mind.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
There is like, Boston's gonna be back next year and
Tatum's probably not gonna shoot this poorly, and so like,
even though Tatum's are a Jalen Brown's a deserving MVP, like,
Tatum's not going anywhere, and he's gonna be here leading
this charge next year. And like, one of the nice things, too,
is his demeanor is the kind of guy that doesn't
take this sort of thing personally, and so I'm kind
(16:42):
of happy for him both in that regard.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, I want to pivot a little bit though, to
Kyrie Irving, and I thought about this, so you know again,
basketball is the artist sport. It's international soccer. It does
matter how you play, not just that you score. And
Messi's Pele just their artists and that there's absolute value
in that. And same in basketball. Doctor j stylistically magic
(17:05):
was cooler than bird. Michael Jordan was great, looking, well dressed,
super fun. You know everything about.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
MJ just just felt big. Duncan was boring.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
And there's a reason, you know, history has been kind
of cruel to Tim Duncan, who's better than anybody wants
to acknowledge, and nobody except people in San Antonio will
acknowledge how dominating he was. He didn't have a lot
of style. But Kyrie Irving played eight games at Duke,
no impact. Was kind of a bust. Pre Lebron in Cleveland, like,
couldn't stay healthy, nobody liked him. Goes to Boston, doesn't
(17:38):
work Brooklyn uh first, early early in Dallas, you kind
of weren't sure. And then he has this playoff run
and we're all like, this is great. So take out
a couple of years with Lebron in his prime, Lebron
made everybody look great, everybody, and Kyrie bailed on that
(18:00):
in this great run. A no show in the finals
and all over the map. Offensively, he had bad, bad
shooting nights, and I'm not giving you much in rebounding,
assists and defense, like he needs to shoot. Well, SE's
not Jalen Brown where he could. You could tell me
he's four for fourteen and he'd have eight rebound, seven assistant.
(18:22):
You know, play the hell out of the defensive end.
That's not what Kyrie is. You need him to shoot.
So you know, I look at Kyrie and I understand
the finishing package. It's artistry. It's beautiful, no dispute. But
even this playoff run, like you know, Anthony Davis gets
criticized sometimes for being inconsistent, not defensively. I get a
(18:47):
star and offensively three out of four nights.
Speaker 5 (18:49):
I know what I get.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Like I know Lebron loves Kyrie. Ad is a more
consistent star player. Jalen Brown's a better basketball player. I
thought Kyrie in these playoffs, his highs are so high, Jason,
you can't take your eyes off it. It's a firework show.
It's awe inspiring. It's the singer hitting the highest note.
But man, he throws out some stinkers he had. He
(19:14):
was invisible for portions of this game. He didn't score
in the first quarter, like the most important quarter.
Speaker 5 (19:20):
Of the season for the MAVs.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
He didn't do anything. There's my there's my Kyrie take that.
His his aesthetic beauty overshadows a lot of nights where
he gives you if he's not shooting, well, he doesn't
give you anything else at all.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
Pretty consistently in my player rankings have had him right
around that twenty spot when I'm when I'm ranking players,
I'm generally higher on Kyrie.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Than some people.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
There's a there's a pretty substantial anti Kyrie coalition out
there for obvious reasons because of his off court stuff.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
And like, one of the things.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
With with with this particular team that I look at
is like I remember going into the series, there were
people saying like, oh what if, what if Luke and
Kyrie are the two best players in the series, And I'm.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Like, whoaa, hold on, Like let's let's chill out. Like
I like Kyrie.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
He's got this incredible upside, which is what you're referring to,
which is the fireworks show. But what he is is
he is an average too slightly above average kind of
guard defender when he's playing hard, but he had a
pretty bad defensive series. He is a guy that is
a pull up jump shooter. And so guess what happens
with pull up jump shooters. Sometimes they go in, sometimes
(20:29):
they don't. And and and that's that to me, is
like there's like one pull up jump shooter in NBA
history who's just been like reliably great in the postseason.
That's Steph Curry, you know what I mean. All the
other guys, they're the freaky athletes that can get to
the rim consistently and dominate the game physically in some way,
shape or form. Right, And so honestly, like, because this
is one of my big takeaways from from Dallas, and
(20:51):
like I've been kind of feeling this way since the
beginning of the series. But I don't think this Dallas
Mavericks team is close. And you kind of mentioned this
in your opening He's.
Speaker 5 (20:59):
Like, I don't either.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
I don't either.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
Yeah, I don't think they're close. I think that they
caught some really favorable matchups out in the Western I
think they're good. I think I think there was a
tier of teams beneath Denver where all the West was,
and they managed to kind of weave their way through
that with some favorable matchups. Right, But like, I think
Denver would have beaten them pretty soundly in the Western
Conference Finals. I think they would have gotten them.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
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This is a paid advertisement. The other thing we have
to admit Jason is because of Luca's ball usage. I
felt like he wasn't healthy for the last two series.
He looked, He looked fatigued, he looked beat up. So again,
when when Kyrie is not delivering, it becomes very Luca dominant.
(22:53):
I thought he looked. I thought you were getting about
eighty percent of Luca in this finals. And some of
that's just when you're the guy and it's little Jalen Brunson.
It's like Jalen's great, but there are limitations to you know,
when Jalen went on that forty point run, You're like,
this isn't gonna end well, Like he's just you can't.
(23:13):
You can't be that dominant. You have to be able to,
you know. And that's why the Celtics work is that
Tatum wasn't good in the first two games. He and
Brown were both good. In Game three tonight, Tatum was superior.
I mean there were Knights that Derek White, I mean
presser before the half, like it's symphonic watching Boston. They're
just handing the baton off man Luca. He had that
(23:37):
baton out multiple times and nobody grabbed it, and I
thought he looked and that's I agree with you. Okay,
sees only getting better. Denver's already favored, Boston's not getting
significantly worse.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Sixth or sec.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
And by the way.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Keep your eye on what Houston's doing. They had a
strikes this year. You're like, oh, you know, they're probably
a vat in a way. So listen, we've seen this before.
It's like in the NFL, the loser of the Super Bowl,
like most of the time, doesn't farewell like this. This
felt like a magical moment in time for Dallas, but
there's some real flaws here. We would both acknowledge that
(24:16):
it is too Luca dependent. That's what it feels. It
does feel like that Cavs team that was really very
Lebron dependent, played with great energy if you remember Zill Goscas.
I mean, they played with tremendous energy. Lebron was captivating,
they had streaky shooters on the wing. But then you
watch them against San Antonio and you're like, all right,
(24:36):
they you know, five of the best six players are
all Spurs. And that's how I felt in this series.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
One of the things that I find fascinating, and I'm
actually curious to get your take on this. Like one
of the things that is hard to do in a
situation like this after you have a successful postseason run
is to be realistic about how far you are away.
And so, for instance, Lakers fans last year, it's like,
we made the Western Conference finals and I'm like, okay, Well,
(25:03):
like Golden State has always struggled against big athletic teams,
that was a pretty favorable matchup for you. And then
also that Memphis team, young John Morant driving into Anthony
Davis all series was obviously not going to work. So
it's like you got a couple of favorable matchups, then
you ran into a real championship level team in Denver
and you got your ass kicked.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
So you're not.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
Close, right, right, So when I look at that, when
I look at the Dallas piece, this is what I
think about, Like when the circumstances are favorable, meaning like
when Luca has obvious mismatches, he can pick at the
entire series, and then on the other end of the floor,
when they can really load up the strong side and
keep their rim protectors at the rim and hide Luca
on the opposite end of the floor, they can get stops.
(25:46):
But where I get concerned is how many times in
NBA history have we seen a team led by two
stars that are both at least combining for two bad
defensive players that go win the title. It's exceedingly rare.
And so yeah, one of the things that I wonder
I shouldn't say exceedingly rat can't think of one. It's
never happened like I would say, I would even say,
(26:09):
like the case would be, oh, what about Jamal Murray,
Nicola Jokicic, which I understand, But the flip side there
is like even the two of them were not this
type of like like Jokis was a dominant defensive rebounder
who could actually do some stuff in pick and roll
coverages defensively, and Jamal Murray did his job, and he's bigger.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Jamal Murray's bigger than Kyrie.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
They also had an elite defender right off that in Gordon,
So they had Yeah, I mean they they accentuated, like
you know, it's like the Mavericks or like the Warriors.
They hid steph Igwoodola Clay. So you can get away
with your star not being an elite defender. But you
have to have elements. You have to have size, Jokic, athleticism,
(26:47):
Gordon like that. That's not what this Dallas team is.
It's it's their two stars are Luca is disengaged a
lot defensively.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
Yeah, he was terrible in four of the five games
of the series defensive I thought he was bad again tonight.
They were just bringing him up into the ball screen.
He would just kind of stand around in no man's lander,
holiday slip out of it.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
He'd get a layup, they get him.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
On a they're the at the end of the first half,
just like Game two, they just attacked him and switched
his time and time and time again and scored every
single time. Like it's a real issue, and so let
me just pitch it back to you, like, this is
the version of a Luka Doncic led team that wins
the title one day? Is that version of that team
constructed around Luca and then a secondary star that is
(27:29):
an elite athlete that can impact the game more with
his physical tools rather than with his skill.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Because I wonder if this Dallas.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
Team is always going to be the kind of team
that can beat certain matchups but will always struggle against
teams that can spread them out just simply because that's
just two way, two weak points in their defense. Do
you think that that's what the direction they're gonna have
to go eventually?
Speaker 1 (27:55):
I think literally a perfect player for Lucas Paul George
probably privately doesn't want the final shot.
Speaker 5 (28:02):
Luca does.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Excellent defender, long willing, can give you thirty in non
pressure situations. Could really have nights where Luca can almost
take a back seat. But in the big moments, you know,
Paul sometimes takes weird shots or bad shots. Luca doesn't like.
This is one of these things. It's a better story
(28:24):
than a team. Kyrie's not the fit. A poor defensive
player who's hot and cold and needs the ball.
Speaker 5 (28:30):
That's not the fit.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
The fit is a long wing defender who can score thirty,
but like a Pippin, has no problem letting the guy,
letting the man shoot. Paul's always been a you know,
Paul can hit the big shot, but it's like he
can also back away from it. He's not a selfish player,
(28:53):
so it's it's Paul George is one of those guys.
He kind of works with everybody. I think, you know,
Paul's gotten a bad rap, I mean, and he kind
of fits everywhere. You go back to those Miami Heat series.
Paul was working with Roy Hibbert, a non score, George Hill,
you know, Frank Vogel who loved Bigs not you now
gut guards they give Miami Wade and Bosh and Battie
(29:16):
and Lebron. They gave him troubles. Those were really good series.
So I just think it's one of those. You know,
Kyrie Luca, the movie poster is better than the movie.
I think they need a different star. And this is
something I was told years ago by a GM like
twenty years ago. He said, it's not about the star.
Having a star in the league. There's a lot of them.
(29:37):
It's the right star. And then once you get that star.
The Warriors were brilliant. Here's Steph's deficiencies. Let's just layer
it and protect him. It's like hockey. Our great score
is a finesse player, Let's protect him. You have to
protect You don't have to protect Tatum. You have to
augment some offensive you know, production porzingis more scores. You
(30:03):
don't have to protect Tatum. You have to protect Luca defensively.
Like I've said this he's a much better Carmelo Anthony.
He's much better, but disengaged defensively. Not sure he's in
great shape. You know, it's kind of he's the sun.
Everything revolves around it sort of. So I'm not anti Luca,
(30:24):
but I don't see him being part of a dynasty.
I just think he's a He's a meteor. He just
don't see stuff like this in the history of basketball.
But all stars are not equal, like Duncan is exactly
what you want your star to be, kind of boring,
does everything well, doesn't have to take the final shot
(30:46):
in the end, sacrifice salary, like Duncan's never gotten the respect.
Like he literally did everything well except handle the ball.
And what did they put around him, Parker Manu, you
know ball handlers. So I just think spectacular, But there
is you have to protect him more than anybody wants
to acknowledge.
Speaker 5 (31:05):
I guess that's my take again.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Yeah, again, it's about acknowledging that you're not close and
so I think there's a bunch of different things that
they have to address. The first piece is Lucas specifically,
and we talked about this a lot after Game three,
has to get in better shape, has to make a
commitment to the defensive end, Like I want to see
Luca come in next year and look different physically, because
this is year after year that this has been an
issue and that he's not made any sort of attempt
(31:29):
to address.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
So that's the first piece of it.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
The second piece of it is we've seen this consistently
with Dallas. They've kept trying to build the same team
around him, because we saw this with Brunson, with Brunson
and Dorian Phinney Smith and that team that went to
the Western Conference finals two years ago, Like they've built
a team around two shot creators and then play finishers
and like what just like what happened against the Warriors
(31:53):
in twenty twenty two. Eventually they're like, actually, we're just
kind of fine with Luca taking these you know, tough
content to two point jump shots. Is his step back
three just isn't reliable enough, Like it once again this
entire postseason run, he just could knock it down at
a high enough rate. Like there's a lot of like
games where he has thirty points on twenty seven shots,
and you're like, this isn't actually something that's causing problems
(32:14):
for the for the for the opposing team, and so
like I look at it too, like one of the
things I like about doing something like going after a
Paul George or more of like a skilled like a
multi talented forward is it makes for less redundancy. It
makes it so that you can, like like it makes
you a different type of team to deal with on
a possession by possession basis, because what happens is when
(32:36):
you lean on the Kyrie thing, it's like Kyrie has
a rough series, Suddenly he doesn't bring anything else to
the table, and now you look severely limited. And so
I think I think in general, they've just got to
have kind of like this self awareness to acknowledge that
they're not close and to make these structural changes. But
one of the problems, Colin is I don't think they're
going to I think they're gonna run it right back
(32:56):
and be like, Oh, Derek Lively's gonna lead us to
the Promised Land next year. He's gonna wait better. And
you know what, I think they're gonna lose in like
the first or second round next year in a jam
packed Western Conference when they catch an unfortunate matchup.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Let's go back to the Celtics very deserving. Don't forget
they had a dominant record. They lost to Denver, but
they had a dominant record against the West, even more
dominating against the East. Flushed through the Eastern Conference playoffs
and the finals. So you know, there are these teams
too that you know, we're so used to dynasties in
(33:28):
the NBA. I was talking to Chris bruce Hard today.
We were talking about teams that won a championship that
weren't a dynasty, but they were great teams. And one
of the first ones was the Jerry West, Gail Goodrich
Wilt Chamberlain. Remember that thirty three game winning Shriek Laker
team that I think beat the Knicks and won a championship. Now,
they didn't reel off a lot of them, but in
(33:49):
a singular season that was an older Wilt. That's one
of the greatest teams of all time. There was a
seventy six ers team that had Moses Malone joined Julius
Irving and they were kind of missing a dominating interior
scoring presence and for a year or two, Jesus, I
remember those Sixers well, like Malone was, It's just hard
(34:12):
to exp Moses Malone. If you ever saw him play,
nobody discusses him. He was as dominating a rebounder as
I've ever seen in the history of basketball, with Doctor
J and good guard play, and I think Boston falls
into that group. So right now, like we thought Denver
was gonna run off two or three Boston in a
single season like that West good Rich Wilt team or
(34:36):
the Moses Malone Doctor J t for a season lightning
in a bottle health spectacular. You know, just just flush
through the playoffs. The question will become they will play
with a champion swagger next year. They probably won't be
as relentless in the regular season. This is, you know,
kind of predictable. They'll they'll be you know, they'll have
(34:57):
their little swoons and won't be But I do think
there's a chance it's a back to back championship because
cross your fingers on Porzingis's health. You know they're bringing
the guys back. You'll play with more confidence. Tatum comes
into a season like, Okay, I got it, I got
my money, I got my title. I think it does
take pressure. I think it was building you and I
(35:18):
said this this was Celtics had to win this after
that Warriors Final where they came home and kind of
laid an egg emotionally. They had to play well in
this series. I thought by second quarter game too, it
was like this is a mismatch. But I think next
year you'll see this goes down to me is a
in moment in time, a great team in a great moment,
(35:41):
too good not to win a championship, but at times
too weird to be a dynasty. I mean, Jalen Brown
wins the MVP and they averaged twenty a game. He
didn't everge thirty, You didn't neverge twenty eight. He averaged
twenty twenty one a game and was the MVP for
the second straight series. So historically, can we acknowledge they're
(36:02):
a little bit of an odd great team?
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Like, yeah, yeah, no, they're They're absolutely weird.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
I mean like when we think about the when we
list the all time great teams in NBA history, we
think like twenty seventeen Warriors, twenty thirteen he you know,
teams like the the two thousand and one Lakers, the
nineteen ninety six Bowls, right, the nineteen eighty six Celtics,
like the nineteen eighty seven Lakers. We think of these teams,
(36:31):
and every single one of them is led by one
of the five best team players in NBA history. In
my opinion, Steph Curry is the fifth best perimeter player
that's played since nineteen eighty. Like, I think he's right
up there with Bird and Magic in that tier. So
like these it's just funky to see a team that
is as dominant as the Celtics have been. But I
(36:52):
think one of the things too, is this kind of
stuff bears out in time. Like you know what Celtics fans,
they're going to want a certain amount of, like the
credit for being dominant, and like here's the thing, like
you beat you beat the Calves, the Heat without Jimmy Butler,
the Pacers and the Maps. So like like I'm not
trying to like, but one of the things with NBA
(37:13):
history because like people said this about the Nuggets last year,
and I thought the Nuggets run was a little underrated
because they went through Lebron and Ad, and they went
through Kad and Devin Booker, and they went through Jimmy
Butler and bam at a bio. Like I actually thought
that Nuggets team, Yeah, played some tough opponents, but like
everyone was like, oh, Denver had an easier path. Well,
guess what happened this year? They had to play a
really tough team in the second round. They lost, So yeah,
NBA history has a chance has a kind of like
(37:36):
a habit of working these sorts of things out. Like
next year, they're probably going to have to play a
Milwaukee in a playoff series, or a healthy Knicks team,
or a team like Denver out of the Western Conference,
or maybe what if Oklahoma City makes some big trade
this summer and they end up going to the finals
and it ends up like NBA history is a kind
of a habit of working these things out, Everything about
(37:58):
how this team is is gonna be about the big picture.
So for instance, if they lose, if they lose next year,
you're gonna zoom out on a three year window here,
and you're gonna be like embarrassing loss against the Heat
in the conference finals, beat four mediocre teams, then lost
the following year. People will write the story of that
Celtics team as an underachieving, overly talented team. But if
(38:21):
they go out next year and they beat better teams
on their way to the Larry O'Brien, people will zoom
out and be like this is an all time great team.
So like that's the thing, Like you're gonna get another
crack at the table next year. It's like Jason Tatum said,
gotta do it again next year. Go ahead, do it
and it'll shut everybody up. Like these things get worked
out with wins.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
I think a team that keep your eye on is
the Knicks. I think one of the great things if
you're a Knicks fan, because they don't match up from
an offensive perspective. They just don't have They don't have
that many guys that can catch it and shoot it
and ball pass. One of the things that's great about
the Celtics winning if you're a Knicks fan, it does
(39:07):
force you some urgency, like, guys, we can't make us
a tweak. We're not a tweak away from beating Boston,
Like we got to go out and get guys like
Michale Bridges and another score. Boston really puts pressure on
Eastern teams. It's one thing if you if you're a
Western team and you lose to Boston in the finals.
(39:27):
You got to the finals, but you're you're not getting
past Boston in New York with a tweak you're just
not you know, even Miami Bam and Butler. You know,
Butler will probably be banged up by the time, you know,
if he if he, if he's a Miami Heat, they
need another not Tyler hero, they need another player.
Speaker 5 (39:48):
So it's this is the good thing.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
If you're a Miami fan or a Knicks fan or
a Sixers fan, this is like, guys, this wasn't competitive
like this. They just I mean, how how many blowouts
they had, like thirteen blowout wins. It's like, tweaking is
not beating. Nobody in the East has Yokich. Okay, you
don't have Yokich. So Tweaking's not gonna do it. And
(40:14):
I think that's sort of the advantages. I say this
in sports all the time. The great thing about harbaught Michigan.
For a Buckeye fan, it puts pressure on going and
getting Chip Kelly as an offensive coordinator. It's like they're
throwing they're pushing us around three years in a row.
You want your rival to be viable because it puts
pressure on your owner and your front office. And so
I'm watching this game tonight and I'm thinking, if I'm
(40:35):
a Knicks fan, you may hate Boston, but your front office,
these are smart people now in New York running that franchise.
You got to bring a Michale Bridges on and another
guy that can drop twenty Devivincenzo's become a great catch
and shoot guy Brunston's gonna give you twenty eight. McHale
Bridges could give you twenty four. And I've got to
(40:56):
get somebody better than Mitchell Robinson in the post that
can give me offense. So it's that's the upside for
the Eastern Conference teams is I think Darryl Moury, the Knicks, uh,
you know Indian if they can get somebody, the pressure's on.
You got to add multiple pieces over the next couple
of years to beat these guys.
Speaker 4 (41:12):
And aggression is gonna be the key, because again, like,
how did Boston do this? They did this by trading
for Drew Holliday and chrisps Porzinkis, Like Brad Stevens just
hit two massive home runs. I went back and looked
at that trade and saw that they ended up like
netting two first round picks in the Porzingis trade, and
I'm like, ah, man, like anybody could have had him.
And then Boston went and got him, and then you know,
like even looking at Denver, it's like they went and
(41:34):
got KCP. They went and got Aaron Gordon. Like those
are two like slam dunk moves to surround Jamal Murray,
Michael Porter Junior and NICOLEA Jokic. They just there. That
aggression is the big piece there. Even going back to
twenty twenty one, they won after they traded for Drew Holliday,
the Bucks did, they traded for Drew Holliday, They went
and they won the title. And so like, keep an
eye on those aggressive teams this summer, the teams that
(41:56):
add talent.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
There are a lot of young.
Speaker 4 (41:59):
Teams in the NBA right now that are like this
close to becoming great. That Thunder team, that Orlando Magic
team is probably like two years away, but they're gonna
be really, really good. You mentioned the Pacers. If they
if they make maybe one more edition this offseason, they
could be in the mix. The Knicks are obviously gonna
be aggressive. I mentioned Memphis earlier. Like Memphis, this kid
(42:19):
Gigi Jackson that they have on the wing is awesome
that they discovered this year. He like slots perfectly between
Jamrant Desmond Bain. They're gonna have Jaron Jackson coming back.
They're gonna have a big look. They're gonna go get
a center, and they're gonna have a massive frontline that
could contend with Denver. As long as Jamran can like
stay healthy and available for his team, I think they
could be really good.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
Like the league is just.
Speaker 4 (42:40):
Like this Celtics team is kind of settling right in
this nice little opening here where all the older teams
are kind of falling apart and all the younger teams
are not quite there yet, and they're having a lot
of success as a result.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Jason timp hoops tonight been a blast NBA Finals. It's
in the books. The Celtics too good, as we said,
to not win a finals it was this year. Really,
it's got a Lebron Calves Duncan Spurs feel to it
where you kind of knew early on, you know, four
or five of the top six players felt like they
(43:13):
were all in Boston. They also, you know, I wrote
this down in my notes, when Boston in the third quarter,
when they're playing collaborative basketball, it's beautiful they are. I mean,
it is like a it's almost like they're playing and
when they're playing comfortably, and in this series they were
it's loose. I mean they are really like those Warrior teams,
(43:36):
even with KD and Clay and Steph, you know guys
that shoot a lot. They were pretty That was really
beautiful basketball. The Celtics had moments tonight and in this
series you're like, that's how to play basketball. That's just drive,
pitch high, IQ. Everybody fits, no animosity. All starts with Tatum,
(43:58):
who's sort of you know, he's the ultimate guy. But
Boston a confident Boston looks like a champion and they
were never put in a position to question themselves in
this series or in the playoffs. A confident Celtic team
like tonight this series, that looks like what an NBA
champion does.
Speaker 4 (44:17):
Yeah, they played a fun brand of basketball. I enjoyed
watching him, Colin. This has been another fun postseason in
the books. I'm sure we'll touch base at some point
during free agency, but I always enjoy talking basketball with
you during the Finals. We're gonna call it a night, guys.
This NBA Finals Game five Instant Reaction was brought to
you by Chase Freedom Unlimited Unlimited one point five percent
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deeper into some of the NBA Finals stories lie storylines,
and then we're turning our attention to the draft and
free agency, because the NBA calendar never ends. As always,
(44:58):
I sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting me and Colin
in the volume, as well as our channels that we've
been trying to grow. We appreciate you, guys, and we
will see you tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
The volume. Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed
the podcast, take a moment, rate and review
The volume. All right, we are really really close to
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Speaker 3 (01:32):
All right, welcome to hoops tonight. You're at the volume.
Happy Monday, everybody.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
Hope all you guys are having a great start to
your week. This NBA Finals Game five Instant Reaction is
brought to you by Chase Freedom Unlimited.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
How do you cash back?
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Well, we have another NBA season in the books as
the Boston Celtics are hoisting the Lario b. We got
Colin Coward here to break it all down. We will
also react to the Finals MVP news when the report
comes down. Obviously, we're waiting on that still, But Colin,
I want to kick it to you, like this NBA
champion has this like indelible mark on the history of
(02:03):
the NBA. How will you remember the twenty twenty four
Boston Celtics.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
I think the deepest team, easily the most equipped with shooters, passers,
ball handlers. You know, you've got six players Horford, Porzingis,
Derek White, Brown, Tatum, Holiday, all really high end NBA
players that would be either a one or a two
on a lot of different teams in this league. Dallas
(02:30):
is like the Lebron James Cleveland team that got to
the finals against the Spurs. I don't really think they're close.
Lebron eventually left that team. They're just ill equipped. Listen,
they got a break. Is that Minnesota knocked out Denver,
perfectly built to beat Denver. Denver led by twenty in
the fourth, twenty points in that game and lost. Denver
matches up with Boston, maybe doesn't beat him up, matches
(02:53):
up well, Minnesota doesn't necessarily match up. Dallas absolutely doesn't
match up. They just don't have They just don't have
the wherewithal. They don't have enough players. You know, Boston's
doing this five out spread the floor. There's nothing they
can do. They can beat Mavericks off the dribble, set
up easy jumpers. I mean, it wasn't you know it
(03:16):
just throw out game four. Okay, So a team comes
out Boston comes out flat. All these games, I felt
like I was watching a championship team and a team
that could have lost in the second round of the
Western Playoffs. I think, and it's not a shot at Dallas,
but they didn't look close. This was not I mean,
there was no drama tonight. Eight minutes into the game,
(03:40):
it's over everybody for the Celtics. They were playing like
it was you know, it had sort of a regular
season feel. Everybody was loose, everybody was confident. It's not
a knock, it's just this game did not feel like
a finals game. It felt like a first round game.
Celtics were a heavy favorite, took an early lead like it.
It didn't feel like a finals game. So I thought,
(04:02):
you know, Tatum's in these kind of moments. He's such
a beautiful player. You know, he's playing with confidence, like
he's playing the Orlando Magic on a Friday night.
Speaker 5 (04:10):
He was playing at a different level.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
Yeah, I think this Celtics team is the rightful champion
this year. I think they have a great claim to
be remembered as the best team. Like we can talk
about Denver and do I think Denver would have matched
up better with Boston, of course, But the reality is
is I don't think any team had a clear cut
case like, oh, if Boston faced these guys, they were
(04:33):
gonna lose. Even with Denver. You know, they won in
the two regular season matchups. But one of the specific
things that this Boston team does extremely well is spread
you out and attack your weak points. And Denver did
have some slow footed guys, guys like Jamal Urry, nicolea
jokicch and Michael Porter Junior. Boston did not shoot well
in either regular season game against the Nuggets, and so
(04:55):
I even think that series was a lot more up
in the air than people realized.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
That those were pressure pat games. There was a lot
of talk this was a finals preview and Boston didn't
shoot particularly well. So that's a classic. That's the kind
of game that we have criticized Tatum for a big game.
Everybody knows it going in and Boston doesn't shoot particularly well.
So it's this series I felt by the second quarter
(05:22):
of Game two, I'm like, uh, it's a problem.
Speaker 5 (05:26):
Like this isn't a good matchup, This series is over,
didn't you.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
No, I totally agree, Like I thought that Dallas was
in really in some deep shit, and on both ends
of the floor in the sense that like they could
not contain the basketball. They were in rotation constantly, and
on the other end of the floor they could not
get Boston in rotation. There was nothing they could do
that made Boston overreact to anything that they were doing.
And again, like that, that's kind of like when I
(05:52):
look back at this Boston team, I think, you know,
you and I came into this season viewing it kind
of like a three team top tier is basically Denver, Boston, Milwaukee,
and then we found out pretty quickly off the top, like, actually,
Milwaukee's not very good for all the reasons we've discussed,
and it just it kind of felt like a two
team race for most of the season, and Boston survived
Denver didn't. I thought, like, you know, one of the
(06:14):
things I want to give Boston credit for, because talent
does not always win in the NBA. It does a
lot of the time, but it does not always win.
In the NBA, it's about the team that can play
the best basketball on both ends of the floor. And
so one of the things I want to give this
Boston team credit for is even though they had an
overwhelming talent advantage in every matchup, it felt like they
(06:35):
played to their capability a lot in this playoff run.
That was what was infuriating about them at times in
the in the regular season, all the criticism of Missoula Ball,
Missoula Ball, it wasn't like it was the way the Celtics.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Were playing it.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
They were taking a lot of bad shots, they weren't
being delivered about their spacing and driving and kicking for
great looks. They were playing some sloppy basketball from time
to time, and they dropped some games they shouldn't have
won or the shouldn't have lost. I think they were
I want to I want to say they were like
two to four against the the top four seeds in
the Western Conference.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
It was actually it was. It was pretty bad.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
They were pretty bad against the good teams at the
top of the West during the regular season, and a
big part of that was they were just kind of
playing beneath their potential. To their credit in this postseason run.
I thought they achieved a level of defensive intensity I
did not see from them in the last two seasons.
I thought that they guarded Dallas extremely well. I know
that you've got a stat you're going to tell us
about Dallas as scoring later, But like I thought, they
(07:31):
defended extremely well. And on the other end of the floor,
Tatum and Brown embraced their roles as driving kick guys
to get the defense in rotation. They played a great
team brand of basketball. It was fun to watch. I'll
tell you this, Colin. There were times during the regular
season where I hated watching Boston because they would just
drible up the floor and shoot a three without even
like getting a paint touch, And they played a fun
(07:52):
brand of basketball in this finals.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
I enjoyed watching them.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yeah, so let's just let's just attack the Jason Tatum things.
So you know, the Boston fans have amnesia, so Tatum's
probably gonna win. I think Jalen Brown was the more
consistent player in the series. Tatum had sixteen points in
Game one, couldn't shoot eighteen points in Game two, played
well in Game three, but Jalen Brown in Game three
had thirty points more rebounds and more assist than Tatum
(08:18):
and was just three games through this series, Brown was
the alpha. That's not disputable. Game four celticsploone out. Tatum
plays better tonight, but tonight was no pressure like the
game was over late first, early second quarter. The series
is over. I've never questioned Tatum in games like tonight.
(08:38):
I've never questioned Tatum's talent. But in the first three
games of this series, especially the first two when you're
establishing the series, Jalen Brown was clearly the best player
Boston had. That is indisputable. Those are pressure games. Tonight's
you know, Tonight's the route. Tonight's one of those games
(08:59):
we all played in high school. Maybe maybe you didn't
where you're like in halftime, you're like, I don't really
need to play. We're down by twenty eight. I don't
really need to play. Like it was a blowout. I mean,
I'm looking at my notes here. First quarter, MAVs implode
late in the quarter, down ten second quarter. This isn't close.
Celtics throwing bodies at Luca. Five guys in the floor,
(09:22):
all can shoot sixty forty two Duncan Derek White three
ugly Pritchard three, like this thing was over midway through
the second quarter. And Rory McElroy missed a putt on
Sunday at the US Open late. He didn't miss putts
on Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday early. Even in the
(09:43):
US Open, putt's late or not not puts early. Tonight's
game is a pressureless game. Once you're up by twenty,
I mean the game's over at halftime. And Tatum played
very loose. He's a beautiful player. If he wins MVP,
I'm totally happy for Jason Tatum. But let's let's be
hones in the first two games, first three, you know
(10:04):
the tone setters. Jalen Brown was the guy for the
Celtics and he also won Eastern Conference MVP. He was
the better player in that series. It's not a knock
on Tatum, but he is a player that in really
tone setting games, he leaves you wanting a little bit.
Tonight was Lucy Goosey rolling downhill. That's all I'm saying.
(10:26):
It's not a knock if he wins it. I had
the Celtics since six I've said it. He's somewhere between
the fifth and eighth best player I'm good with. I'm
not a hater, but like it's amnesia to say, oh,
MVP of the series, Like, let's go back to the
first three games. It wasn't close, That's all I said.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
I'll actually take it to put it a little bit
more aggressively, like there wasn't a single moment in this
entire playoff run where Boston was under any sort of
pressure at all whatsoever. They played three bad teams in
the Eastern Conference and then they played probably the best
matchup for them out of the West, and so that
that specifically just avoids any of like the real drama
(11:06):
that you think of when you when you think about
historical finals MVPs, you think of drama. You think of
pivotal games and Jason.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
When we have questions about Tatum, it's never talent, it's moments,
it's intensity, it's the Kobe MJ shits, tied eighty six all.
Speaker 5 (11:23):
So this series just didn't have any of that stuff.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
No, I agree, And like, as far as the finals
MVP thing goes, like I I think I personally would
be okay with either of them getting it, and the
case the case for Tatum is like I like it
when the history books tell the story of that team.
And to me, even though Jalen Brown played better than
Jason Tatum over the course of this playoff run, I
(11:47):
thought Tatum was the best player on the team for
the entirety of the season. Like I thought, yes, Tatum
was the three like And so if I look back,
and if I look back at the Wikipedia page and
it's his twenty twenty four NBA Champion, the Celtics, Jason
Tatum Finals MVP, I'm cool with that. But he was
the best player in the series one game out of
five tries. In addition to that. In addition to that,
(12:09):
I thought Jalen Brown had the biggest pivotal shots of
the series in that late game run from Dallas. In
Game two, he had the driving left handed layup over
Maxi Kleeba. In Game three when it was in crunch
time there late he hit those two massive fadeaway mid
range jump shots that kind of ic the game. I
thought he had the most iconic plays of the series.
I thought those two dunks, those two driving one handed
(12:31):
monster slams he had were like the iconic dunks of
the series. And so for me, like I'm cool with
Jason Tatum winning the award. Yeah, I believe Jalen Brown
observes it and I just deserves it. And I just
got the text message from our guy, Josh, Jalen Brown
has won Finals MVP.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
What do you have to say about that?
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Well, I think he was the better player consistently. I
think your point's the best one all the big shots
you on. I do think the first two games of
the series those are tone setters, Like like you mean,
if Dallas wins one of those games, you lose home
court advantage. And we said, both of us said coming
into the series the pressure was all on Boston. So
winning those first two games at home was not just
(13:11):
hey we protected home. It kind of made a statement.
And in both games, if not for a brief Dallas run,
they had a really good fourth quarter. If I recall
in Game two, Boston was clearly the better team. So
that the tone setting games here were games one and two,
(13:31):
and Jalen Brown was clearly the best player, And so
I think they got it right. It's nothing, you know,
I can love a player but not love a series.
I mean, remember when the meta hit the game winner
in Game seven for the Lakers over the Celtics. Kobe
was awful in Game seven. He was just just couldn't
(13:54):
hit anything. Kobe's so remarkable, he just had a horrible night.
We got to be honest about that stuff. And so
I credit the people who voted on this because I
thought Jatam Jalen Brown Eastern Conference Finals and Finals was
the better player. Tatum, to your point, on a macro level,
was the best Celtic all year. I think that's absolutely true.
(14:18):
And two things can be simultaneously true.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
Yeah, exactly, And like as far as the Jalen Brown
piece goes, I really only have a problem with the
non Superstar Finals MVP when we get into box score
watching and we start giving it to like a role player,
like that was the Travis d Yeah of the twenty
fifteen Warriors, Like Steph Curry's getting blitzed all game and
Andre Goudala is getting wide open dunks and corner threes
(14:42):
because Steph's getting blitzed. A and a Cavs team with
one star Andre Gudala held for shooting percentage and then
the voters end up suddenly giving the award to Andrea Goadala,
and I'm like, what are we doing here?
Speaker 3 (14:56):
But this is not what happened here.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Like we've discussed multiple times throughout the series, Jalen Brown
is playing at a level that is similar to Jason Tatum's,
Like he is ascending. And you know, one of the
things that I think is fascinating about that is you
and I talked in the after the Eastern Conference Finals
last year. We talked about should they look into trading
Jalen Brown, And one of the things I said, if
you remember, was I said, they have a better chance
(15:19):
of Jalen Brown improving into what they need than they
do to try to flip a player of his caliber
into a better player, which was obviously a long shot
or risky shot. And so to Boston's credit, they just
kind of like, let these guys play through their lumps.
And here comes Jalen Brown going from flat out embarrassing
(15:39):
against Miami last year he was bad against Miami last
year to being the Eastern Conference Finals MVP and the
NBA Finals MVP. And one other thing I wanted to
say before I kick it back to you, this is
what scares me about the Tatum piece moving forward. He's
not as bad offensively as he showed in this playoff run.
(16:00):
There's this thing. There's this thing that can happen in basketball.
I don't have an explanation for it. This is all
part of that whole basketball is more art than science thing.
But Tatum's been in one hell of a shooting slump
in this postseason. He's been getting like eight tenths of
a point per jump shot when he's typically a solid
twenty percent.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Better than that. And one of the things, one of
the things to keep in mind.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
There is like, Boston's gonna be back next year and
Tatum's probably not gonna shoot this poorly, and so like,
even though Tatum's are a Jalen Brown's a deserving MVP, like,
Tatum's not going anywhere, and he's gonna be here leading
this charge next year. And like, one of the nice things, too,
is his demeanor is the kind of guy that doesn't
take this sort of thing personally, and so I'm kind
(16:42):
of happy for him both in that regard.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, I want to pivot a little bit though, to
Kyrie Irving, and I thought about this, so you know again,
basketball is the artist sport. It's international soccer. It does
matter how you play, not just that you score. And
Messi's Pele just their artists and that there's absolute value
in that. And same in basketball. Doctor j stylistically magic
(17:05):
was cooler than bird. Michael Jordan was great, looking, well dressed,
super fun. You know everything about.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
MJ just just felt big. Duncan was boring.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
And there's a reason, you know, history has been kind
of cruel to Tim Duncan, who's better than anybody wants
to acknowledge, and nobody except people in San Antonio will
acknowledge how dominating he was. He didn't have a lot
of style. But Kyrie Irving played eight games at Duke,
no impact. Was kind of a bust. Pre Lebron in Cleveland, like,
couldn't stay healthy, nobody liked him. Goes to Boston, doesn't
(17:38):
work Brooklyn uh first, early early in Dallas, you kind
of weren't sure. And then he has this playoff run
and we're all like, this is great. So take out
a couple of years with Lebron in his prime, Lebron
made everybody look great, everybody, and Kyrie bailed on that
(18:00):
in this great run. A no show in the finals
and all over the map. Offensively, he had bad, bad
shooting nights, and I'm not giving you much in rebounding,
assists and defense, like he needs to shoot. Well, SE's
not Jalen Brown where he could. You could tell me
he's four for fourteen and he'd have eight rebound, seven assistant.
(18:22):
You know, play the hell out of the defensive end.
That's not what Kyrie is. You need him to shoot.
So you know, I look at Kyrie and I understand
the finishing package. It's artistry. It's beautiful, no dispute. But
even this playoff run, like you know, Anthony Davis gets
criticized sometimes for being inconsistent, not defensively. I get a
(18:47):
star and offensively three out of four nights.
Speaker 5 (18:49):
I know what I get.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Like I know Lebron loves Kyrie. Ad is a more
consistent star player. Jalen Brown's a better basketball player. I
thought Kyrie in these playoffs, his highs are so high, Jason,
you can't take your eyes off it. It's a firework show.
It's awe inspiring. It's the singer hitting the highest note.
But man, he throws out some stinkers he had. He
(19:14):
was invisible for portions of this game. He didn't score
in the first quarter, like the most important quarter.
Speaker 5 (19:20):
Of the season for the MAVs.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
He didn't do anything. There's my there's my Kyrie take that.
His his aesthetic beauty overshadows a lot of nights where
he gives you if he's not shooting, well, he doesn't
give you anything else at all.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
Pretty consistently in my player rankings have had him right
around that twenty spot when I'm when I'm ranking players,
I'm generally higher on Kyrie.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Than some people.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
There's a there's a pretty substantial anti Kyrie coalition out
there for obvious reasons because of his off court stuff.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
And like, one of the things.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
With with with this particular team that I look at
is like I remember going into the series, there were
people saying like, oh what if, what if Luke and
Kyrie are the two best players in the series, And I'm.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Like, whoaa, hold on, Like let's let's chill out. Like
I like Kyrie.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
He's got this incredible upside, which is what you're referring to,
which is the fireworks show. But what he is is
he is an average too slightly above average kind of
guard defender when he's playing hard, but he had a
pretty bad defensive series. He is a guy that is
a pull up jump shooter. And so guess what happens
with pull up jump shooters. Sometimes they go in, sometimes
(20:29):
they don't. And and and that's that to me, is
like there's like one pull up jump shooter in NBA
history who's just been like reliably great in the postseason.
That's Steph Curry, you know what I mean. All the
other guys, they're the freaky athletes that can get to
the rim consistently and dominate the game physically in some way,
shape or form. Right, And so honestly, like, because this
is one of my big takeaways from from Dallas, and
(20:51):
like I've been kind of feeling this way since the
beginning of the series. But I don't think this Dallas
Mavericks team is close. And you kind of mentioned this
in your opening He's.
Speaker 5 (20:59):
Like, I don't either.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
I don't either.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
Yeah, I don't think they're close. I think that they
caught some really favorable matchups out in the Western I
think they're good. I think I think there was a
tier of teams beneath Denver where all the West was,
and they managed to kind of weave their way through
that with some favorable matchups. Right, But like, I think
Denver would have beaten them pretty soundly in the Western
Conference Finals. I think they would have gotten them.
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(22:29):
This is a paid advertisement. The other thing we have
to admit Jason is because of Luca's ball usage. I
felt like he wasn't healthy for the last two series.
He looked, He looked fatigued, he looked beat up. So again,
when when Kyrie is not delivering, it becomes very Luca dominant.
(22:53):
I thought he looked. I thought you were getting about
eighty percent of Luca in this finals. And some of
that's just when you're the guy and it's little Jalen Brunson.
It's like Jalen's great, but there are limitations to you know,
when Jalen went on that forty point run, You're like,
this isn't gonna end well, Like he's just you can't.
(23:13):
You can't be that dominant. You have to be able to,
you know. And that's why the Celtics work is that
Tatum wasn't good in the first two games. He and
Brown were both good. In Game three tonight, Tatum was superior.
I mean there were Knights that Derek White, I mean
presser before the half, like it's symphonic watching Boston. They're
just handing the baton off man Luca. He had that
(23:37):
baton out multiple times and nobody grabbed it, and I
thought he looked and that's I agree with you. Okay,
sees only getting better. Denver's already favored, Boston's not getting
significantly worse.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Sixth or sec.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
And by the way.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Keep your eye on what Houston's doing. They had a
strikes this year. You're like, oh, you know, they're probably
a vat in a way. So listen, we've seen this before.
It's like in the NFL, the loser of the Super Bowl,
like most of the time, doesn't farewell like this. This
felt like a magical moment in time for Dallas, but
there's some real flaws here. We would both acknowledge that
(24:16):
it is too Luca dependent. That's what it feels. It
does feel like that Cavs team that was really very
Lebron dependent, played with great energy if you remember Zill Goscas.
I mean, they played with tremendous energy. Lebron was captivating,
they had streaky shooters on the wing. But then you
watch them against San Antonio and you're like, all right,
(24:36):
they you know, five of the best six players are
all Spurs. And that's how I felt in this series.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
One of the things that I find fascinating, and I'm
actually curious to get your take on this. Like one
of the things that is hard to do in a
situation like this after you have a successful postseason run
is to be realistic about how far you are away.
And so, for instance, Lakers fans last year, it's like,
we made the Western Conference finals and I'm like, okay, Well,
(25:03):
like Golden State has always struggled against big athletic teams,
that was a pretty favorable matchup for you. And then
also that Memphis team, young John Morant driving into Anthony
Davis all series was obviously not going to work. So
it's like you got a couple of favorable matchups, then
you ran into a real championship level team in Denver
and you got your ass kicked.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
So you're not.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
Close, right, right, So when I look at that, when
I look at the Dallas piece, this is what I
think about, Like when the circumstances are favorable, meaning like
when Luca has obvious mismatches, he can pick at the
entire series, and then on the other end of the floor,
when they can really load up the strong side and
keep their rim protectors at the rim and hide Luca
on the opposite end of the floor, they can get stops.
(25:46):
But where I get concerned is how many times in
NBA history have we seen a team led by two
stars that are both at least combining for two bad
defensive players that go win the title. It's exceedingly rare.
And so yeah, one of the things that I wonder
I shouldn't say exceedingly rat can't think of one. It's
never happened like I would say, I would even say,
(26:09):
like the case would be, oh, what about Jamal Murray,
Nicola Jokicic, which I understand, But the flip side there
is like even the two of them were not this
type of like like Jokis was a dominant defensive rebounder
who could actually do some stuff in pick and roll
coverages defensively, and Jamal Murray did his job, and he's bigger.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Jamal Murray's bigger than Kyrie.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
They also had an elite defender right off that in Gordon,
So they had Yeah, I mean they they accentuated, like
you know, it's like the Mavericks or like the Warriors.
They hid steph Igwoodola Clay. So you can get away
with your star not being an elite defender. But you
have to have elements. You have to have size, Jokic, athleticism,
(26:47):
Gordon like that. That's not what this Dallas team is.
It's it's their two stars are Luca is disengaged a
lot defensively.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
Yeah, he was terrible in four of the five games
of the series defensive I thought he was bad again tonight.
They were just bringing him up into the ball screen.
He would just kind of stand around in no man's lander,
holiday slip out of it.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
He'd get a layup, they get him.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
On a they're the at the end of the first half,
just like Game two, they just attacked him and switched
his time and time and time again and scored every
single time. Like it's a real issue, and so let
me just pitch it back to you, like, this is
the version of a Luka Doncic led team that wins
the title one day? Is that version of that team
constructed around Luca and then a secondary star that is
(27:29):
an elite athlete that can impact the game more with
his physical tools rather than with his skill.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Because I wonder if this Dallas.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
Team is always going to be the kind of team
that can beat certain matchups but will always struggle against
teams that can spread them out just simply because that's
just two way, two weak points in their defense. Do
you think that that's what the direction they're gonna have
to go eventually?
Speaker 1 (27:55):
I think literally a perfect player for Lucas Paul George
probably privately doesn't want the final shot.
Speaker 5 (28:02):
Luca does.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Excellent defender, long willing, can give you thirty in non
pressure situations. Could really have nights where Luca can almost
take a back seat. But in the big moments, you know,
Paul sometimes takes weird shots or bad shots. Luca doesn't like.
This is one of these things. It's a better story
(28:24):
than a team. Kyrie's not the fit. A poor defensive
player who's hot and cold and needs the ball.
Speaker 5 (28:30):
That's not the fit.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
The fit is a long wing defender who can score thirty,
but like a Pippin, has no problem letting the guy,
letting the man shoot. Paul's always been a you know,
Paul can hit the big shot, but it's like he
can also back away from it. He's not a selfish player,
(28:53):
so it's it's Paul George is one of those guys.
He kind of works with everybody. I think, you know,
Paul's gotten a bad rap, I mean, and he kind
of fits everywhere. You go back to those Miami Heat series.
Paul was working with Roy Hibbert, a non score, George Hill,
you know, Frank Vogel who loved Bigs not you now
gut guards they give Miami Wade and Bosh and Battie
(29:16):
and Lebron. They gave him troubles. Those were really good series.
So I just think it's one of those. You know,
Kyrie Luca, the movie poster is better than the movie.
I think they need a different star. And this is
something I was told years ago by a GM like
twenty years ago. He said, it's not about the star.
Having a star in the league. There's a lot of them.
(29:37):
It's the right star. And then once you get that star.
The Warriors were brilliant. Here's Steph's deficiencies. Let's just layer
it and protect him. It's like hockey. Our great score
is a finesse player, Let's protect him. You have to
protect You don't have to protect Tatum. You have to
augment some offensive you know, production porzingis more scores. You
(30:03):
don't have to protect Tatum. You have to protect Luca defensively.
Like I've said this he's a much better Carmelo Anthony.
He's much better, but disengaged defensively. Not sure he's in
great shape. You know, it's kind of he's the sun.
Everything revolves around it sort of. So I'm not anti Luca,
(30:24):
but I don't see him being part of a dynasty.
I just think he's a He's a meteor. He just
don't see stuff like this in the history of basketball.
But all stars are not equal, like Duncan is exactly
what you want your star to be, kind of boring,
does everything well, doesn't have to take the final shot
(30:46):
in the end, sacrifice salary, like Duncan's never gotten the respect.
Like he literally did everything well except handle the ball.
And what did they put around him, Parker Manu, you
know ball handlers. So I just think spectacular, But there
is you have to protect him more than anybody wants
to acknowledge.
Speaker 5 (31:05):
I guess that's my take again.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Yeah, again, it's about acknowledging that you're not close and
so I think there's a bunch of different things that
they have to address. The first piece is Lucas specifically,
and we talked about this a lot after Game three,
has to get in better shape, has to make a
commitment to the defensive end, Like I want to see
Luca come in next year and look different physically, because
this is year after year that this has been an
issue and that he's not made any sort of attempt
(31:29):
to address.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
So that's the first piece of it.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
The second piece of it is we've seen this consistently
with Dallas. They've kept trying to build the same team
around him, because we saw this with Brunson, with Brunson
and Dorian Phinney Smith and that team that went to
the Western Conference finals two years ago, Like they've built
a team around two shot creators and then play finishers
and like what just like what happened against the Warriors
(31:53):
in twenty twenty two. Eventually they're like, actually, we're just
kind of fine with Luca taking these you know, tough
content to two point jump shots. Is his step back
three just isn't reliable enough, Like it once again this
entire postseason run, he just could knock it down at
a high enough rate. Like there's a lot of like
games where he has thirty points on twenty seven shots,
and you're like, this isn't actually something that's causing problems
(32:14):
for the for the for the opposing team, and so
like I look at it too, like one of the
things I like about doing something like going after a
Paul George or more of like a skilled like a
multi talented forward is it makes for less redundancy. It
makes it so that you can, like like it makes
you a different type of team to deal with on
a possession by possession basis, because what happens is when
(32:36):
you lean on the Kyrie thing, it's like Kyrie has
a rough series, Suddenly he doesn't bring anything else to
the table, and now you look severely limited. And so
I think I think in general, they've just got to
have kind of like this self awareness to acknowledge that
they're not close and to make these structural changes. But
one of the problems, Colin is I don't think they're
going to I think they're gonna run it right back
(32:56):
and be like, Oh, Derek Lively's gonna lead us to
the Promised Land next year. He's gonna wait better. And
you know what, I think they're gonna lose in like
the first or second round next year in a jam
packed Western Conference when they catch an unfortunate matchup.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Let's go back to the Celtics very deserving. Don't forget
they had a dominant record. They lost to Denver, but
they had a dominant record against the West, even more
dominating against the East. Flushed through the Eastern Conference playoffs
and the finals. So you know, there are these teams
too that you know, we're so used to dynasties in
(33:28):
the NBA. I was talking to Chris bruce Hard today.
We were talking about teams that won a championship that
weren't a dynasty, but they were great teams. And one
of the first ones was the Jerry West, Gail Goodrich
Wilt Chamberlain. Remember that thirty three game winning Shriek Laker
team that I think beat the Knicks and won a championship. Now,
they didn't reel off a lot of them, but in
(33:49):
a singular season that was an older Wilt. That's one
of the greatest teams of all time. There was a
seventy six ers team that had Moses Malone joined Julius
Irving and they were kind of missing a dominating interior
scoring presence and for a year or two, Jesus, I
remember those Sixers well, like Malone was, It's just hard
(34:12):
to exp Moses Malone. If you ever saw him play,
nobody discusses him. He was as dominating a rebounder as
I've ever seen in the history of basketball, with Doctor
J and good guard play, and I think Boston falls
into that group. So right now, like we thought Denver
was gonna run off two or three Boston in a
single season like that West good Rich Wilt team or
(34:36):
the Moses Malone Doctor J t for a season lightning
in a bottle health spectacular. You know, just just flush
through the playoffs. The question will become they will play
with a champion swagger next year. They probably won't be
as relentless in the regular season. This is, you know,
kind of predictable. They'll they'll be you know, they'll have
(34:57):
their little swoons and won't be But I do think
there's a chance it's a back to back championship because
cross your fingers on Porzingis's health. You know they're bringing
the guys back. You'll play with more confidence. Tatum comes
into a season like, Okay, I got it, I got
my money, I got my title. I think it does
take pressure. I think it was building you and I
(35:18):
said this this was Celtics had to win this after
that Warriors Final where they came home and kind of
laid an egg emotionally. They had to play well in
this series. I thought by second quarter game too, it
was like this is a mismatch. But I think next
year you'll see this goes down to me is a
in moment in time, a great team in a great moment,
(35:41):
too good not to win a championship, but at times
too weird to be a dynasty. I mean, Jalen Brown
wins the MVP and they averaged twenty a game. He
didn't everge thirty, You didn't neverge twenty eight. He averaged
twenty twenty one a game and was the MVP for
the second straight series. So historically, can we acknowledge they're
(36:02):
a little bit of an odd great team?
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Like, yeah, yeah, no, they're They're absolutely weird.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
I mean like when we think about the when we
list the all time great teams in NBA history, we
think like twenty seventeen Warriors, twenty thirteen he you know,
teams like the the two thousand and one Lakers, the
nineteen ninety six Bowls, right, the nineteen eighty six Celtics,
like the nineteen eighty seven Lakers. We think of these teams,
(36:31):
and every single one of them is led by one
of the five best team players in NBA history. In
my opinion, Steph Curry is the fifth best perimeter player
that's played since nineteen eighty. Like, I think he's right
up there with Bird and Magic in that tier. So
like these it's just funky to see a team that
is as dominant as the Celtics have been. But I
(36:52):
think one of the things too, is this kind of
stuff bears out in time. Like you know what Celtics fans,
they're going to want a certain amount of, like the
credit for being dominant, and like here's the thing, like
you beat you beat the Calves, the Heat without Jimmy Butler,
the Pacers and the Maps. So like like I'm not
trying to like, but one of the things with NBA
(37:13):
history because like people said this about the Nuggets last year,
and I thought the Nuggets run was a little underrated
because they went through Lebron and Ad, and they went
through Kad and Devin Booker, and they went through Jimmy
Butler and bam at a bio. Like I actually thought
that Nuggets team, Yeah, played some tough opponents, but like
everyone was like, oh, Denver had an easier path. Well,
guess what happened this year? They had to play a
really tough team in the second round. They lost, So yeah,
NBA history has a chance has a kind of like
(37:36):
a habit of working these sorts of things out. Like
next year, they're probably going to have to play a
Milwaukee in a playoff series, or a healthy Knicks team,
or a team like Denver out of the Western Conference,
or maybe what if Oklahoma City makes some big trade
this summer and they end up going to the finals
and it ends up like NBA history is a kind
of a habit of working these things out, Everything about
(37:58):
how this team is is gonna be about the big picture.
So for instance, if they lose, if they lose next year,
you're gonna zoom out on a three year window here,
and you're gonna be like embarrassing loss against the Heat
in the conference finals, beat four mediocre teams, then lost
the following year. People will write the story of that
Celtics team as an underachieving, overly talented team. But if
(38:21):
they go out next year and they beat better teams
on their way to the Larry O'Brien, people will zoom
out and be like this is an all time great team.
So like that's the thing, Like you're gonna get another
crack at the table next year. It's like Jason Tatum said,
gotta do it again next year. Go ahead, do it
and it'll shut everybody up. Like these things get worked
out with wins.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
I think a team that keep your eye on is
the Knicks. I think one of the great things if
you're a Knicks fan, because they don't match up from
an offensive perspective. They just don't have They don't have
that many guys that can catch it and shoot it
and ball pass. One of the things that's great about
the Celtics winning if you're a Knicks fan, it does
(39:07):
force you some urgency, like, guys, we can't make us
a tweak. We're not a tweak away from beating Boston,
Like we got to go out and get guys like
Michale Bridges and another score. Boston really puts pressure on
Eastern teams. It's one thing if you if you're a
Western team and you lose to Boston in the finals.
(39:27):
You got to the finals, but you're you're not getting
past Boston in New York with a tweak you're just
not you know, even Miami Bam and Butler. You know,
Butler will probably be banged up by the time, you know,
if he if he, if he's a Miami Heat, they
need another not Tyler hero, they need another player.
Speaker 5 (39:48):
So it's this is the good thing.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
If you're a Miami fan or a Knicks fan or
a Sixers fan, this is like, guys, this wasn't competitive
like this. They just I mean, how how many blowouts
they had, like thirteen blowout wins. It's like, tweaking is
not beating. Nobody in the East has Yokich. Okay, you
don't have Yokich. So Tweaking's not gonna do it. And
(40:14):
I think that's sort of the advantages. I say this
in sports all the time. The great thing about harbaught Michigan.
For a Buckeye fan, it puts pressure on going and
getting Chip Kelly as an offensive coordinator. It's like they're
throwing they're pushing us around three years in a row.
You want your rival to be viable because it puts
pressure on your owner and your front office. And so
I'm watching this game tonight and I'm thinking, if I'm
(40:35):
a Knicks fan, you may hate Boston, but your front office,
these are smart people now in New York running that franchise.
You got to bring a Michale Bridges on and another
guy that can drop twenty Devivincenzo's become a great catch
and shoot guy Brunston's gonna give you twenty eight. McHale
Bridges could give you twenty four. And I've got to
(40:56):
get somebody better than Mitchell Robinson in the post that
can give me offense. So it's that's the upside for
the Eastern Conference teams is I think Darryl Moury, the Knicks, uh,
you know Indian if they can get somebody, the pressure's on.
You got to add multiple pieces over the next couple
of years to beat these guys.
Speaker 4 (41:12):
And aggression is gonna be the key, because again, like,
how did Boston do this? They did this by trading
for Drew Holliday and chrisps Porzinkis, Like Brad Stevens just
hit two massive home runs. I went back and looked
at that trade and saw that they ended up like
netting two first round picks in the Porzingis trade, and
I'm like, ah, man, like anybody could have had him.
And then Boston went and got him, and then you know,
like even looking at Denver, it's like they went and
(41:34):
got KCP. They went and got Aaron Gordon. Like those
are two like slam dunk moves to surround Jamal Murray,
Michael Porter Junior and NICOLEA Jokic. They just there. That
aggression is the big piece there. Even going back to
twenty twenty one, they won after they traded for Drew Holliday,
the Bucks did, they traded for Drew Holliday, They went
and they won the title. And so like, keep an
eye on those aggressive teams this summer, the teams that
(41:56):
add talent.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
There are a lot of young.
Speaker 4 (41:59):
Teams in the NBA right now that are like this
close to becoming great. That Thunder team, that Orlando Magic
team is probably like two years away, but they're gonna
be really, really good. You mentioned the Pacers. If they
if they make maybe one more edition this offseason, they
could be in the mix. The Knicks are obviously gonna
be aggressive. I mentioned Memphis earlier. Like Memphis, this kid
(42:19):
Gigi Jackson that they have on the wing is awesome
that they discovered this year. He like slots perfectly between
Jamrant Desmond Bain. They're gonna have Jaron Jackson coming back.
They're gonna have a big look. They're gonna go get
a center, and they're gonna have a massive frontline that
could contend with Denver. As long as Jamran can like
stay healthy and available for his team, I think they
could be really good.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
Like the league is just.
Speaker 4 (42:40):
Like this Celtics team is kind of settling right in
this nice little opening here where all the older teams
are kind of falling apart and all the younger teams
are not quite there yet, and they're having a lot
of success as a result.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Jason timp hoops tonight been a blast NBA Finals. It's
in the books. The Celtics too good, as we said,
to not win a finals it was this year. Really,
it's got a Lebron Calves Duncan Spurs feel to it
where you kind of knew early on, you know, four
or five of the top six players felt like they
(43:13):
were all in Boston. They also, you know, I wrote
this down in my notes, when Boston in the third quarter,
when they're playing collaborative basketball, it's beautiful they are. I mean,
it is like a it's almost like they're playing and
when they're playing comfortably, and in this series they were
it's loose. I mean they are really like those Warrior teams,
(43:36):
even with KD and Clay and Steph, you know guys
that shoot a lot. They were pretty That was really
beautiful basketball. The Celtics had moments tonight and in this
series you're like, that's how to play basketball. That's just drive,
pitch high, IQ. Everybody fits, no animosity. All starts with Tatum,
(43:58):
who's sort of you know, he's the ultimate guy. But
Boston a confident Boston looks like a champion and they
were never put in a position to question themselves in
this series or in the playoffs. A confident Celtic team
like tonight this series, that looks like what an NBA
champion does.
Speaker 4 (44:17):
Yeah, they played a fun brand of basketball. I enjoyed
watching him, Colin. This has been another fun postseason in
the books. I'm sure we'll touch base at some point
during free agency, but I always enjoy talking basketball with
you during the Finals. We're gonna call it a night, guys.
This NBA Finals Game five Instant Reaction was brought to
you by Chase Freedom Unlimited Unlimited one point five percent
(44:38):
cash back is just the beginning. Cash back three percent
on dining including takeout, three percent at drug stores, five
percent at Chase Travel, and one point five percent on
everything else. How do you cash back? All right, everybody,
We will be back tomorrow to get a little bit
deeper into some of the NBA Finals stories lie storylines,
and then we're turning our attention to the draft and
free agency, because the NBA calendar never ends. As always,
(44:58):
I sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting me and Colin
in the volume, as well as our channels that we've
been trying to grow. We appreciate you, guys, and we
will see you tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
The volume. Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed
the podcast, take a moment, rate and review
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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