June 26, 2024 • 41 mins
Doug Gottlieb fills in for Colin reacting to the Knicks landing Mikal Bridges in a trade with the Nets and why the Villanova culture taking over the NBA is a huge win for basketball
Guest: Jeff Howe
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 3 (00:26):
What up?
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Lolcome in that's It's The Herd.
Speaker 5 (00:31):
Wherever you may be in however, you may be making
us part of your day.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Thanks so much for listening up to vout leaving in
for the man himself, Concot and for the next couple.
Speaker 5 (00:41):
Of hours, I want to talk sports.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
With you.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
AI here we are hours away from young men's lives
beat changed the NBA Draft, which apparently is the two
day events on a year in which I don't know
how many of you can name half the players or
even three quarters of the players in day one of
(01:07):
the two day event, although Day two of the events
will probably bring us a complete Bronnie James discussion, and
we'll get to whether or not we should or should
not be discussing Ronnie James upcoming got a.
Speaker 5 (01:20):
Heck of a show for you. We will talk some NFL.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Jeff Howe is going to join us a little bit
later on this hour, plus Magic Johnson likens himself and
Larry Bird to who you'll find out a little bit
later on this hour. But let's begin with the news
of the day. McHale Bridges is traded to the New
York Knicks, and there was a do you like plethora?
(01:44):
Do you like cornucopia or do you like Schmorgesborg of picks?
Pick pick which one you want. Either way, it doesn't matter.
The Knicks end up landing McHale Bridges. Now, Bridges is
a guy who when he's the third or fourth option
is remarkable. When he's the number one option, he's good.
(02:04):
But you know you're limited as a team. You're not
gonna win or compete for an NBA championship. Nonetheless, that
is a big time get for the New York Knickerbuckers,
who now have four Villanova players on it. Four that
one at least parts of, if not someone two national championships.
(02:24):
And there's a lot that goes with it, right, What
does it mean for the rest of the New York
Knicks roster? You know, do they they stamp pat what
do they do with Hartenstein, what do they do with
the other players? But I think let's just focus on
why would you want for Villanova guys, Well, it's obvious
(02:48):
you want to surround yourself with winners, But this is
about culture. It's about culture, right. The greatest respect you
can have or say to a radio guy is I
was listening to your show. I got to my house
and I couldn't get out of my car until you
went to break, Or even more impressively, is I listened
(03:09):
through a break because I wanted to hear what you
were going to say next. Like that is an unbelievable
compliment to a radio guy.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
To a radio guy, you know.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
When when a coach watches your team, Like I remember,
I was actually giving a little pregame talk in Phoenix
before the national championship game, and I look in the
audience and there's Tubby Smith. And I started interviewing Tubby
Smith because I mean, he's won national championship, he's an
(03:40):
incredibly legendary man and coach in the in the profession
of coaching basketball. And he said, you know, I just
want to stick around and see what you had to say.
I was like, Wow, it's like respect. He cannot get
any more respect for a college program than four of
their guys. And when Jalen Bruns was signed by the
(04:01):
New York Knicks, many were critical of how much they
spent on it. Now, obviously most everybody's back pedaled and said, hey,
I was wrong, and it's fine. But my point too
was it didn't actually have to do with the points
and the assists. It has to do with the fact
that New York for so long had been a place
that no one wanted to play. You know how many
(04:24):
times has Lebron James been a free agent said eh,
never want to play there. Remember, the New York Knicks
moved heaven and earth to try and get Kevin Durant,
and when he wanted to bring Kyrie Irving with him,
they sort of passed. He ended up with the Brooklyn Nets.
But nonetheless, the fact that the Knicks wanted him. He
was a free agent, he talked to the Knicks and
didn't go there. The Knicks that were not a destination.
(04:47):
It was because there was just what was the what
was the magnet who was had the gravitational pull that
was pulling people in? And I believe that's Sjalen Brunson.
What the Knicks have have come to understand is what
many people in business already know is that culture is
(05:08):
just about everything. And I get it, like, there's gonna
be limitations. Josh Harts has limitations as a player, not
a great player, but man's a good for your culture.
I know Dante DiVincenzo and that elimination game had a
great game, and we know him as white Dante from
the National Championship Game, but in truth, he's probably best
off being a bench player.
Speaker 5 (05:28):
Mikhale Bridges again.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
He's if he's your third or fourth offensive option, you're
really good. And Jalen Brunson's probably best if he's your
second best offensive scorer.
Speaker 5 (05:40):
But I was I was at.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
A let's call it a symposium a couple of weeks ago,
and it was all about culture and purpose Doug Goddibn
for Colin this is the herd. And one of the
statements made was like, look, if you invest in people,
if you really invest in culture, your growth for your
(06:04):
company is going to increase ten x. And the point
is that I understand how on paper, on paper, it
looks like one thing on paper, it looks like, ah,
we got overspent on Michale Bridges, he's just an okay player.
Maybe we're a little bit better OG and nobody has
(06:25):
gone how much better can they be? But I think
when your culture is as good as it will be
with those four Villanova guys, I think you'll have an
increase of ten x. I think others will follow, and
I think you're gonna have a really good team. I
think that becomes a team where you think that that's
next to the Celtics, the most competitive team in the East.
(06:48):
And look, I could tell you that there were times
in my life where I would say, ah, we're over
selling culture and you just got to go get the
best guys possible. But the Boston Celtics don't have the
best players possible. Jason Tatum's awesome, Jaylen Brown's very good.
(07:11):
But they have great culture. They buy into their roles
and that's why they're successful. And that investment in culture
is one of the things that's paid off for them
winning an NBA title. And I think the Knicks are
sitting there going like, all right, Villanova is the was
the model team, was the model college basketball program. Culture wins,
(07:37):
competitiveness wins, smart wins. That's all Villanova. Let's just go
get a bunch of Villanova guys. Don't know what the
price is, and you know what, kind.
Speaker 5 (07:46):
Of agree with them?
Speaker 4 (07:48):
I do kind of agree with them. Doug Otlibin for
colinists The Herd. You're on Fox Sports Radio and the
iHeartRadio App.
Speaker 5 (07:57):
What a show we got for you.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Now, the question becomes in the NBA draft do you
draft for culture or do you just draft for talent?
Like that's a real thing. Do you draft for culture
or do you draft for talent? The nickt trade for
Michale Bridges that obviously gets them some talent, but a
lot of culture. What happens to tonight's NBA draft?
Speaker 5 (08:22):
Coming up next?
Speaker 4 (08:23):
In The Herd, the Dolphins and Tua are at an impasse.
What should the Dolphins do next? We'll discuss.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
at noon Eastern not am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio App.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
Doug Gottliebin for calling this The Herd, Fox Sports Radio,
iHeartRadio App.
Speaker 5 (08:46):
Welcome in Hope.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
You're having just a wonderful, wonderful Wednesday, a draft day, Wednesday,
NBA Draft. But of course the NBA draft kind of
a snooze this year, especially in comparison to the NFL.
And with that, welcome to Jeff Howies and nowation NFL
insider for the Athletic and he joins us here in
the Herd. And Jeff, let's start with kind of some
(09:07):
of this quarterback discussion. We've seen Trevor Lawrence get a
new deal and now we're waiting to see what happens
in Green Bay or what happens in Miami. There's one
report out that the Dolphins and Tua can't find a
middle ground. What are you hearing about the Dolphins and
their quarterback?
Speaker 6 (09:27):
Well, it's a tricky one because both sides have what
they feel is pretty strong leverage. And I wouldn't be
surprised if this kind of goes closer to little Lamar
Jackson territory where it kind of drags out where the
Dolphins kind of want to to keep proving that he
is worth the money that I would assume that he
wants probably in that fifty there, certainly in that fifty
(09:48):
plus million dollar a year range. And if you're the Dolphins,
it's okay to be skeptical because two years ago was
an injury shortened season. Of course last year, you know,
similar problems that they kind of face. The Dolphins as
a whole, we're also in the spotlight with two in particular.
You know, they were really good in the regular season
and then fizzled out when it started to matter most.
(10:09):
So you know, the Dolphins have the contractual leverage where
they can have to play this thing out and if
he has an MVP caliber season this year and they
have to give him something more than you know, some
something closer to the fifty million dollars ballpark, it now
creeps towards sixty you know what, then, so be it.
That's the gamble you take. So I understand why both
(10:32):
sides could conceivably be far enough apart where obviously they
still don't have a deal.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
Okay, what what's the leverage that that he has, Like,
I don't know of any leverage, I mean other than
you know, if they eventually get to a franchise tag
situation that costs against the cap, but he can't go anywhere.
Speaker 6 (10:54):
Yeah, but you know, the cap. I'm sorry, the franchise
tag is useful for the teams, but it all so
kills your cap if you can't turn that into more
of an extension. So you don't want a situation where
all of a sudden you've got, you know, Dak Prescott
playing up last year of his deal in Dallas. You know,
it would be a similar type of cap constraint if
you play that year to year tag game Toa's leverage
(11:16):
is the number just keeps going up. And I think
you look at, you know, the way the quarterback market
has exploded really the last two years. I mean, it
started in twenty eighteen with Matt Ryan, but the way
that it's kind of gone so disproportionately off course here
in the last couple off seasons where yeah, you've got
guys who are cashing in and getting these contracts that
(11:38):
are well deserved, but then you've got other ones that
are more questionable. When you've got Daniel Jones getting forty
million a year and you've got other guys starting to
approach that fifty million dollar mark, where you've got to
wonder whether that type of contract is going to come
back and bite them. But I mean, if you're TUA
and you're betting on yourself, and you sit there and
you look at what the the dolphin history recent history
(12:01):
a quarterback has been You can say, all right, well,
you don't want to pay me and you want to
risk losing me, and or do you want to let
this thing go tag by tag year by year. You know,
all of a sudden, the what they the organization would
have hoped to solidify the quarterback position long term, you know,
becomes more of a tenuous battle. I guess that's really
(12:22):
what I'm trying to get at.
Speaker 5 (12:23):
With the leverage, What does Jordan Loves? What's that deal
coming at?
Speaker 6 (12:28):
He's gonna be I would assume closer to fifty five.
And I think that's pretty wild too, because he played,
He was as good as just about any quarterback in
the league down the stretch last year. It's it's a
little it's certainly a gamble to pay a guy that
much money off of a half season's worth of great pay.
But you know, this was kind of the Packers plan
(12:50):
all along, in turning over the keys to Love when
they parted with Rogers and watching him in practice and
kind of seeing him perform. I mean, it's one thing.
And this isn't just the case of Jordan Love. This
is the case with a lot of young quarterbacks, especially
the guys who sit You sit there and you watch
them play well in practice, and you say all the
right things, and you're telling the media that, Okay, this
(13:12):
guy looks like the real deal. But there's always universally,
there's no exceptions. There's always that seed of doubt. What's
he going to look like when he starts to play
in live games? Is that practice stuff going to transition
over to the game field. Is it going to transition
when the when it gets a lot more tense down
the stretch of the regular season or into the playoffs.
And Jordan Love answered a lot of those questions. Now, again,
(13:34):
I'm not going to back off from the fact that
it's a little bit of a gamble to pay a
guy off of that short of the sample size, But
if the Packers are comfortable with it from the entire
body of work over the last few years, then you've
got to see him coming in around fifty five.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Doug Gottliebin for Collin. This is the Herd Fox Sports Radio,
the iHeartRadio EP. Jeff, How's our guest, the National NFL
insider for the Athletic.
Speaker 5 (13:58):
You know it's interesting, Jeff.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
Last year this time, all the talk was running backs
running back running backs from Oh the running backs were
on a phone together. They're trying to drive up their
value for people who have been paying attention because the
running backs have been a lot quieter. They've changed places.
Saquon Barkley's changed places, Dereck Henry's changed places. What's the
running back market look like now? For those same players.
Speaker 6 (14:20):
It's not as good as I think they I mean,
last year it didn't pan out how they wanted, and
you saw a lot of guys cave because, you know,
quite frankly, the money was what it was, and you
can any one of us could sit there and say, yeah,
we want this amount of money, but if that's not
what your employer is willing to pay you, then you
know it's a it's a lost battle there. But I
(14:40):
think what you saw this offseason in free agency was
kind of like the middle the upper middle class heightened
their floor, so you're not going to get really four
or five years ago, when those top guys were all
getting about fifteen or you know, fourteen to sixteen million
dollars a year. That tapered off pretty considerably over the
(15:03):
last two years. But what was really interesting was over
the last year and a half. You had that top tier,
and say for a guy like Christian maccaffery or what
have you. But you've got that top tier usually in
like the twelve to fifteen range. So it bottomed out
a little bit. But then what was fascinating what I'm
getting at here, is once you got below twelve and
then that franchise number from a year ago, which was
(15:24):
ten point one, then it dropped down to seven per year,
and there was nobody in that middle ground. So right
now what you're seeing is more of a there. There's
a few more bodies in that middle area. So there's
no longer that giant void from twelve down to seven
with those franchise numbers in between. So even though that
doesn't get these guys back to where they were around
(15:47):
twenty twenty or twenty nineteen, it gets a lot more
guys a little more money than they maybe they had
been used to a couple of years ago.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
Okay, then we have wide receivers. Where with Brandon Ayuk
and the Niners, I mean that.
Speaker 6 (16:04):
One seems to still be at the failmmate. I mean
it's the forty nine ers have done a really good
job obviously, looking where they've been playing in January February.
The last few years, they've done a tremendous job of
identifying their elite talent and retaining a good portion of them.
The problem there is when you have so many of them,
eventually you kind of got to cut ties at some
(16:27):
point and paying Ayuk and Deebo Samuel that money when
you've got stars and so many other positions across the roster.
Now that kind of hurts the middle class of their roster.
And you know, even the last couple of years talking
to some of their rivals around the league, but yeah, okay,
there is talented as anybody that anybody in the NFL.
(16:47):
But their problem is when they run into these injury issues,
which have been very high profile ones, you kind of
see the middle class of the roster take a bit
of a dip. And that's why you kind of saw
them struggle in some of the bigger moments. Not necessarily
last year, I don't think, but you know, prior a
couple of years. So you know, they're running into this
situation where, yeah, Brandon Ayuk wants to be paid like
(17:09):
a number one wide receiver, but right now number one
wide receiver is getting twenty five to thirty million dollars
a year, and I just don't know if it's practical
from a team building standpoint for the forty nine ers
to go through with that.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
I would I would agree, And it's just really interesting,
right and that what's the value there? So what happens
if they don't want to go through that? Like what
do they trade them?
Speaker 5 (17:33):
What do they do?
Speaker 6 (17:35):
I think? I think if you're the forty nine ers,
you want to be greedy, You want to see if
you can squeeze one more year out of Devo and
Ayuk together. And if Ayuk really puts his foot down
and says, look, I'm not I'm not showing up. I'm
like trade me or pay me, but there's no in between,
then I think the forty nine ers hands and tied
a little bit more and they try to figure out, Okay,
(17:55):
what what makes the most sense. Do you pay Ayu,
can trade Debo and kind of deal with whatever kaprilifications
come from moving on Deevo's contract, or do you just
make it a whole lot easier on yourself and trade
Ayuk to a team that will pay him like a
number one wide receiver. Because I'm sure there are going
to be a handful of those out there, and then
you kind of recoup some draft capital. So I think
(18:17):
priority one for the forty nine ers is to see
if Ayuk will hang around for one more year before
they make the tougher decision. But if I really wants
to force his hands here, I wouldn't be surprised if
he's the one they have to move.
Speaker 5 (18:31):
Awesome stuff, Jeff, awesome awesome stuff.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
Uh, what one more for you as an insider, Who's
the team everybody's talking about? Not the media like we
lock in on Cowboys, we lock in on Jets and
Aaron Rodgers, you know, no showing for uh for for
OTAs who's the team everyone else is talking about that
(18:55):
we should be paying more attention to.
Speaker 6 (18:58):
Oh boy, Uh, You've got me a little bit of
a summer brain on that one. Just trying to.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
You know, let me let me, let me, let me
ask you, Let me ask you about the Jets. That's
about the Jets based upon the people. You know, we
all think it's a big deal because it's Aaron regressing
towards Aaron when he was in Green Bay right last year,
was I'm going to show up at all these events?
I'm all about it. I'm at every I'm at every practice.
Everything this year is I'll be there when I need.
Speaker 5 (19:30):
To be there. What are the Jets people say about it?
Speaker 6 (19:35):
There's a lot of uh, there's a lot of raised
eyebrows around the league with what the Jets potential can
be or or should be, compared to what maybe the
hype is, especially coming out of New York. I mean,
it's it's like you were saying, kind of to add
to your point, Aaron Rodgers starts the off season by
saying you've got to cut out all the unnecessary distractions,
and then is gone or mandatory many camp. I mean,
(19:58):
that's and that's not that's not like an off beat,
like that's a football distraction. That is an avoidable distraction. Now,
granted we don't have any answers, and if it's a
personal matter that he absolutely had to attend to, then
you know, I would absolutely walk back what I'm saying here.
But all I can go by is what they're telling us.
And that was a pre planned absence that the Jets
(20:21):
were then not even forthcoming about until the week of
mini camp. So now you take a football your most
important football player off the football field, and that's an
unnecessary distraction. So it's more of the same with the Jets.
This is Yeah, it's an absolutely talented roster. They've done
a really good job of acquiring young talent through the
draft the last three years. And there is a lot
(20:41):
of room for error because they have so much young
talent there and and if all those guys start to
really or start to rise together, then they're going to
be a dangerous team. But I'm telling you, like their
rival executives and coaches around the league are more of
a let's wait and see if the Jets are for
real before we buy into all this hype, because it's
(21:02):
been the same story with the Jets for many.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
Years, many many, many years, many years. You're the best man,
Thanks so much for joining us. Really appreciate you here
spending some time with us here.
Speaker 5 (21:12):
In the Herd.
Speaker 6 (21:13):
Of course, thanks all for having me. I have a
good one, Jeff.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
How does a great job? NFL insider for the athletic
Let's get to the news with Rye music.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
Right, No, no, no.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
This is the Herdline News.
Speaker 5 (21:29):
What do you got right?
Speaker 3 (21:30):
All right, Doug? A lot of NFL talk that we'll
have some more at the end of this herd line.
But we're going to turn our attention to the NBA
for this first story. Kevin Durant or Devin Booker on
the trade block, Well, that's what the Rockets are certainly
hoping for, as they're keeping an eye on a big
time difference maker to help get them into the mix
of the Western Conference. According to ESPN, the Rockets are
(21:54):
monitoring Booker and Durant's availability right now, while the Suns
are currently interested in moving either of their stars.
Speaker 7 (22:02):
But I had its night's draft.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
The Rockets have the number three overall pick and they
could be willing to move off of one of their
young stars in Alprin Shane Goon. So the Rockets looking
to maybe get that big time veteran all star difference
maker to take them from fringe playing team to firmly
in the mix of the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
I think this is fascinating, right, So who do you
think they're willing to come off of. I mean, to me,
it's pretty obvious what Phoenix needs.
Speaker 5 (22:32):
What do you think that is? Right?
Speaker 7 (22:35):
I think they need more depth and size.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
Nope, okay, they need a one and a five. So
I don't think they're gonna shanuin. I don't think they will.
I don't think they'll be able to move. Plus, I
don't think he fits what they need.
Speaker 5 (22:48):
They need not to kick.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
But wouldn't a five fit the definition of size?
Speaker 4 (22:54):
Yes, but it's it's fine. They need a point guard.
Who's Houston's point guard Fred than elite? So that's that's
the question, Right, is Houston willing to give up Fred
van Vliet for Kevin Durant?
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Because I mean, if you would, certainly think they would.
Speaker 5 (23:15):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
I don't know what the answer that is. I do
think they're going try and take that next step. I
think it's gonna be fascinating, Like that's a really interesting
trade for both teams, because for Houston that would absolutely
kind of put them in at least some part of
the discussion to being a team atop. But what would
they look like if like Jalen Green is a supreme talent,
(23:40):
but he's not a point you have Jabari Smith. I
don't think they're thinking about parting ways with Jabari Smith.
I would think that, you know, again, Chegwain, you're not
wrong that that would be somebody that people would want.
I don't know if the Suns need more scoring, they
need defense at at the in terms of interior size,
(24:02):
and that's not what he does. I think they want
Van Vliet, and I just don't know if they're willing
to part with him in order to get Kevin Durant.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
Yeah, I mean, if you're the Rockets, I'm not sure
why you wouldn't make that move though, Like I think
Fred Van Vliet's a really nice player, and maybe you know,
Ime Udoka looks at him as some type of cultural cornerstone, correct,
But I mean he's not necessarily and I know Kevin Durrant.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
He's not Jalen Brunson, but he's there kind of Jalen Brunson, sure,
And so the question is how much do you value
that over Kevin Durant, who's you know, well, he's not
what he used to be.
Speaker 8 (24:40):
He's still twenty five a night, right, I guess the
other because the other part too, that is like, granted
it's not that Durant is a young player by any means,
but neither is Fred van Vliet.
Speaker 7 (24:52):
Like he's very thirty.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
So it's not like you're going to have some extensive
runway of him being the foundation of you know, an
eight year run here.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
Yeah, but you can't think eight year run, right, you
got it? Like, what are we doing in the next
two years?
Speaker 6 (25:07):
Right?
Speaker 7 (25:07):
But that's why to me it's a no brainer.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
In the next two years, you're likely to get more
out of Kevin Durant than a Fred van Vliet.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
I guess you're You're more likely to get more out
of Kevin Rant and you are Fred VanVleet.
Speaker 5 (25:21):
But what about everybody else on the team?
Speaker 4 (25:24):
Can you get more out of everybody else in the
team that you wouldn't get out of them if.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
You don't have Fred VanVleet. That's my question.
Speaker 7 (25:30):
Yeah, that question.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
You know, it's like it's the old wins above replacement,
like you can replace them. You know you can score more?
Will you win more? And you know the one thing
the Sons learned the hard way is I get it true?
Point guards have gone the way mostly of the Dodo. Right,
you got like Chris.
Speaker 7 (25:47):
Paul and right.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
And even he's not really good enough anymore to do
it on his own. TJ from from Indy he comes
off the bench. But you do need a point guard.
It's on some level to get everybody where they need
to get to even if they are a score.
Speaker 5 (26:04):
So all right, what else?
Speaker 3 (26:06):
All right, We'll turn back to the NFL here. The
Cardinals are looking to turn things around this season, in
large part due to a healthy Kyler Murray, who only
played in eight games last year coming off that knee surgery. Well,
Arizona's tight end Trey McBride, here's what he had to
say about Kyler.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Give me the best elevator pitch for Kyler Murray MVP
candidate in.
Speaker 6 (26:29):
Twenty twenty four.
Speaker 9 (26:29):
Yeah, this is my third year with him now, and
he seems more motivated than ever. He's a guy who's
bringing everyone together. We're throwing every weekend. We're getting everyone together,
and he's in the building, first one in, last one out.
You know, he's one of those guys who's doing everything
the right way. And this is the most confident I've
seen him. This is his first year that I've been
fully healthy with him. He's fully healthy. I think everything's
(26:52):
trending in the right way. He has a ton of
weapons out there, and I have full confidence that he's
capable of an MVP season.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Collins always been a defender of Kyler Murray as just
a talent in the NFL and some of the behind
the scenes in terms of ownership and overall structure of
the Cardinals and the things he's had to overcome. Are
you seeing a big bounce back? Maybe not MVP. Look
(27:22):
what else do you expect to hear out of his
teammate and past catcher?
Speaker 4 (27:26):
If what I expect to hear, Yes, Like he's the
tight end who I'd never heard of for the years
of a Cardinals. So of course he's going to say
all these positive things about Kyler Murray, all of them.
I have no idea his level of work of it.
I would think it's way better. I think he's a
(27:46):
supreme talent. I like him more than I like Tua,
just because he has great arm strength in addition to
great hallusiveness. And if he's figured out how he has
to work at it, then there's no reason he can
be He can't be special this year. You're in a
division which is interesting, right the Rams man. I mean,
(28:07):
now you have two elite wide receivers and you feel
like McVeigh granted gaping hole on defense, losing one of
the best defensive players in football maybe in the history
of football up front, but offensively they should be top
notch Niners still the favorites, and then you got Seattle,
who's kind of stuck a little bit no man's land
on the offensive side of the ball. Like, do I
(28:29):
see them as a bounce back year. Yeah, Jonathan Gannon
was much better as a coach than anyone could have thought.
Embarrassing first press conference and some of that video stuff
they had, but after that he's been awesome. So yeah,
I think if Kyler's healthy, they got a different dynamic
than other teams.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Yeah, I mean, obviously the addition of Marvin Harrison Junior
gives that offense a lot more juice than perhaps they
had last year. And yeah, I mean, as you said,
maybe the toughest thing that they'll have to overcome my
be their own division, let alone anything else. And we'll
wrap up with this, Doug. It is the cultural phenomenon
(29:06):
and the celebrity love story. People just can't get enough
of Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey. Here's the latest. The Chiefs,
the NFL and the Hallmark Channel are producing a Hollywood movie.
Speaker 7 (29:19):
All right, excuse me, a.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Holiday movie titled Holiday Touchdown, a Chief's Love Story. Now officially,
according to the press releases, there is nothing directly connecting
this movie to Taylor or Travis or anything in that regard,
But I think we all get a pretty clear understanding
of what's sort of happening and what they're getting at here.
Speaker 5 (29:42):
Yeah, I'm good on that. I'll probably not myself.
Speaker 7 (29:44):
WHOA really Yeah, I don't know, Doug, I see you.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
I mean, yesterday, we spent the last segment of the
show talking about things to do when you're on a flight,
and I would have easily pegged you as a Hallmark
movie kind of guy.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
No, no, I do miss the Good Afternoon School Special
After School Special.
Speaker 5 (30:05):
I think you're probably too young to remember that, but
we just have to.
Speaker 7 (30:08):
Yeah, that one flew right over my head.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
After School after School Special. I think that was like
a Wednesday. I mean, like, look, you're not even alling
to remember when MTV actually played music videos and people
would watch that.
Speaker 7 (30:18):
That's not true.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
I was there for for like TRL and stuff like that.
Speaker 5 (30:24):
Request Live. Yeah, all right, I like that hashtag TRL
now probably right, isn't it? Yeah?
Speaker 7 (30:30):
I mean, is it still a thing?
Speaker 4 (30:32):
Yeah? I know hard pass on the Taylor shift Travis
Kelce unauthorized flick.
Speaker 10 (30:38):
By the way, I give them an f on the
title of this movie, like they couldn't come up with
anything more creative than Holiday Touchdown? Is that what it's called? Holiday?
Speaker 3 (30:50):
Holiday Touchdown? A Chiefs love story?
Speaker 10 (30:53):
Oh my goodness. It reminds me of this local show
that tries to keep the viewer from the NBA Finals
And it's a local news show with a couple NBA
players and they call it slam Dunk And I'm like,
they can't come up with anything more creative than slam Dunk.
(31:14):
That's the name of the show because it's a basketball show.
Speaker 4 (31:17):
Hey, listen, my show is called the Doug Gottlieb Show.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
And that's great.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
Well, it's not like we we are experts in creativity.
So that is Ryan Y's for the news.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Well that's the news and stopping the Herd line news.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
So a lot of discussion obviously about Kaitlin Clark and
the kind of takeover of women's basketball. Wait do you
hear what Magic Johnson tweeted about Kaylen Clark? It's actually interesting.
It's actually next and the hurt.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noone Easter not a Empacific.
Speaker 7 (31:58):
Hey, what's up?
Speaker 11 (31:58):
Everybody? It's me three times pro bowler LeVar Arrington, and
I couldn't be more excited to announce a podcast called
up on Game.
Speaker 7 (32:06):
What is up on Game?
Speaker 11 (32:07):
You asked, along with my fellow pro bowler TJ. Hutchman,
Zada and Super Bowl champion. Yep, that's right, Plexico Burris.
You can only name a show with that type of
talent on it.
Speaker 5 (32:18):
Up on Game.
Speaker 11 (32:19):
We're going to be sharing our real life experiences loaded
with teachable moments. Listen to Up on Game with Me
LeVar Arrington, TJ Hutchman, Zada, and Plexico Burrs on the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast from.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
Doug allimin for colonists, The Herd on Fox Sports Radio,
the iHeart Radio app. My resident x or Twitter reader
is Jason Stewart.
Speaker 5 (32:50):
Of course, it's a producer.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
Of the Doug otlib Show, which follows the show on
most Fox Sports Radio affiliates. He along with Ryan music
Or producing This Yere's Show, and usually Ja Due. Usually
we make fun of Magic Johnson's tweets because they are
Captain Obvious thinks they're a bit obvious, right. What was
his tweet regarding Caitlyn Clark and Angelies.
Speaker 10 (33:13):
Well, referring to your first point, I have to take
credit for this. I was way out in front of
this that Magic's Twitter account either is manned by somebody
who doesn't know basketball that well and just tweets obvious stuff,
or it's Magic and he just doesn't have a whole
(33:34):
lot of insight into things. It's remarkable. It's almost like
he's been trolling us all these years. Like he he'll
just say something like the AT Suns are up thirty
points to the AT Hawks, and then you're like, yeah, Magic, thanks,
we couldn't have gone online or have gone on to
the TV to see that. So this is what he
tweeted yesterday. And I think this is like a topical.
(33:57):
This is a good sports topic. He says, when when
I think about Kaitlin Clark and Angel Reese's impact on
the game, they remind me a lot of Larry Burden.
Me our first meeting in Indiana State Michigan State in
the title game set the all time viewership record. Caitlin
and Angels twenty twenty three Championship title game matchup and
their twenty four Elite Eight games for the highest viewership
(34:19):
records of all time. He's implying that he thinks that
Angel Rees and Kaitlin Clark could possibly have the same
impact on the NBA that he and Larry Bird did.
What do you think about that, well.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
On the WNBABA. Yeah, look, I actually I made that
comparison myself. They're not the same players. Angel Reese is
not nearly as dynamic with the ball. She's not a
game changer. Remember when when Magic and Bird came in Magic,
we hadn't seen a six foot nine point guard had
happened before. And and Larry Bird was such a force multiplayer.
(34:58):
I think they went from twenty nine wins to sixty
wins in his first year. So and that's the kind
of I don't You're not going to get there with
Kaitlyn Clark. But remember they were the worst team in
the WNBA. Now they're fighting for playoff position. But I
do think the White Black, I do think the fact
they played, they played for a championship going back to
(35:19):
last year, and yeah, I just think the whole and
they of course met again this year. I do think
there's parallels there. And remember this is they have collectively
and really most of it is is Kaitlyn Clark have
lifted the WNBA to new heights. I don't think it's
a terrible analogy. It's right message, it's probably wrong messenger
(35:44):
would be my guess. And remember Larry Bird all time
great and he didn't win a championship. Part of that
was he wasn't surrounded by the greatest players when he's
in Indiana state, good players, but not elite. And I'd
say the same thing for IOWA. Right when they've lost,
they've lost to a team with better players, better overall help.
Speaker 10 (36:01):
But could we talk about the kind of the status
of the leagues when each of these pairs entered the
league because the NBA was obviously at a low in
the late seventies and the finals were on tape delay
and whatnot. But I don't think the NBA quite put
all their eggs in one basket with Magic and Bird.
I think the Magic Bird thing happened over time and
(36:22):
it evolved into changing the game. But I don't think
there was the expectation that the Kaitlin Clark thing, like
the WNBA has spent money, spent money they don't have.
I'm banking on Kaitlin Clark being transcendent so I think
in that respect, I don't think it's apples to apples, right.
This is the WNBA needs Kaitlin Clark much more than
(36:43):
the NBA was expecting to need Magic and Bird.
Speaker 7 (36:47):
No.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
Uh yeah, I mean, look, I can't tell you the
financial details of most NBA teams.
Speaker 5 (36:55):
I can tell you this, Okay, this real story.
Speaker 4 (36:58):
My late father went to my grandpa, and my grandpa
was he put himself through school, worked nights, went to
City College in New York. And then what he did
to make his money to start his accounting practice and
to pay for his school was he rented a box
truck with a buddy. They would go down to the
(37:20):
docks in New York. They'd buy fish, and then they
had a route and they would go sell fish to
the restaurants. And then he'd sleep all the rest of
the day and then get up at night and go
to night class.
Speaker 5 (37:30):
And go do it again and again. Became an accountant
for me. An accountant.
Speaker 4 (37:33):
He took over a car dealership along Island and it
was I think the most successful car dealership at the time.
He was like one of the first to do leasing options.
And when guys would come back from Korea, and Vietnam.
He'd meet him at the boat with a brand new Cadillac.
Speaker 5 (37:49):
So he was really successful.
Speaker 4 (37:53):
And my dad tried to talk him into buying the
new Jersey Nets in nineteen eighty one for one million night.
One may knows the league was a mess. I don't
know though, if it was as bad as it's being perceived.
And I also know that the WNBA. Let's not act
(38:14):
like the league was healthy for a long time, just
we have no idea how unhealthy. They moved a lot
of teams around, they got out of a bunch of arenas,
they got private ownership groups, but it was still was
subsidized by the NBA. So I can't tell you how
bad it was. But I do think that a blind
man can see the NBA went from tape delay to
being the biggest show on Earth, and the WNBA has
(38:35):
gone from a fledgling league that you know, has a
niche audience to selling out, you know, NBA style arenas
and being the talk of the town because Cathlin Clark.
I do think there's a parallel there.
Speaker 10 (38:50):
Yeah, I think that the that the Angel Reese is
I think more of a tag along in this respect.
I think Magic and Bird were on the same top
level tier for the entire decade. I think that Angel
Reese is considerably behind Caitlin in popularity and as a draw,
I think it will always be an interesting rivalry, but
(39:10):
I don't think they're ever gonna be equals. Is kind
of a relevant draw? What do you think I.
Speaker 5 (39:17):
Would agree as of now?
Speaker 4 (39:19):
I do think okay, I do think there is something
that Angel Reese's and and she's part of this Kaitlin
Clark's dodent as well, where you know, like the kind
of runway model thing.
Speaker 5 (39:30):
I think that sells.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
I also think, you know, we're talking about it from
you know, white male in your forties kind of perspective,
although I know you're fifty now, but what white male's
sort of perspective. I think Angel Reese is actually a
lot more popular than maybe even we give it credit.
It pales in popularity in comparison to to Caitlin Clark.
I am not arguing that, but I do think that
within her target demo, she's really popular. People like her. Now,
(39:57):
is she as skilled as talented? Can she take over game?
She's put a bunch of these double doubles. When you
watch her she's not terribly skilled, she's she's more about
the fact that she just works really, really hard. So
if that's the argument, then you're right. If the argument
is overall popularity, of course appeals in comparison to Kaylyn Clark.
But I do think that she separates herself and that
(40:19):
she does have her own kin little fan base that
she plays to. And I think playing up the fact
that these are beautiful women, I don't think. I don't
see as a downside to it. It's not something they've
ever done before. Give us your thoughts, so they're always
interesting to hear yours at Gottlieb Show on Twitter, at
Gottlieb Show on Instagram as well. All right, coming up
(40:43):
next in the Herd. You know, we're all kind of
guilty of this, Okay. We conflate popular and good or
popular and talented or popular and successful, and it's not
necessarily the same thing. And I think Bronnie James is
(41:07):
the perfect example of it. His name, by my estimation,
will be mentioned more in the next two days than
any basketball player on Earth. Any basketball player on Earth,
including Caitlin Clark, including lebron James, including Kevin Durant. You know,
barring Kevin Durant being traded, but even if he has traded,
because the NBA Draft is on for the next two nights,
(41:29):
I think Bronnie James will be talked about because he's
incredibly popular. How do you balance that with how good
somebody is. Let's get into that discussion next. I'm Doug Gottlieb.
Speaker 5 (41:39):
This is the hurt
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
What up?
Speaker 4 (00:27):
Lolcome in that's It's The Herd.
Speaker 5 (00:31):
Wherever you may be in however, you may be making
us part of your day.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Thanks so much for listening up to vout leaving in
for the man himself, Concot and for the next couple.
Speaker 5 (00:41):
Of hours, I want to talk sports.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
With you.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
AI here we are hours away from young men's lives
beat changed the NBA Draft, which apparently is the two
day events on a year in which I don't know
how many of you can name half the players or
even three quarters of the players in day one of
(01:07):
the two day event, although Day two of the events
will probably bring us a complete Bronnie James discussion, and
we'll get to whether or not we should or should
not be discussing Ronnie James upcoming got a.
Speaker 5 (01:20):
Heck of a show for you. We will talk some NFL.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Jeff Howe is going to join us a little bit
later on this hour, plus Magic Johnson likens himself and
Larry Bird to who you'll find out a little bit
later on this hour. But let's begin with the news
of the day. McHale Bridges is traded to the New
York Knicks, and there was a do you like plethora?
(01:44):
Do you like cornucopia or do you like Schmorgesborg of picks?
Pick pick which one you want. Either way, it doesn't matter.
The Knicks end up landing McHale Bridges. Now, Bridges is
a guy who when he's the third or fourth option
is remarkable. When he's the number one option, he's good.
(02:04):
But you know you're limited as a team. You're not
gonna win or compete for an NBA championship. Nonetheless, that
is a big time get for the New York Knickerbuckers,
who now have four Villanova players on it. Four that
one at least parts of, if not someone two national championships.
(02:24):
And there's a lot that goes with it, right, What
does it mean for the rest of the New York
Knicks roster? You know, do they they stamp pat what
do they do with Hartenstein, what do they do with
the other players? But I think let's just focus on
why would you want for Villanova guys, Well, it's obvious
(02:48):
you want to surround yourself with winners, But this is
about culture. It's about culture, right. The greatest respect you
can have or say to a radio guy is I
was listening to your show. I got to my house
and I couldn't get out of my car until you
went to break, Or even more impressively, is I listened
(03:09):
through a break because I wanted to hear what you
were going to say next. Like that is an unbelievable
compliment to a radio guy.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
To a radio guy, you know.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
When when a coach watches your team, Like I remember,
I was actually giving a little pregame talk in Phoenix
before the national championship game, and I look in the
audience and there's Tubby Smith. And I started interviewing Tubby
Smith because I mean, he's won national championship, he's an
(03:40):
incredibly legendary man and coach in the in the profession
of coaching basketball. And he said, you know, I just
want to stick around and see what you had to say.
I was like, Wow, it's like respect. He cannot get
any more respect for a college program than four of
their guys. And when Jalen Bruns was signed by the
(04:01):
New York Knicks, many were critical of how much they
spent on it. Now, obviously most everybody's back pedaled and said, hey,
I was wrong, and it's fine. But my point too
was it didn't actually have to do with the points
and the assists. It has to do with the fact
that New York for so long had been a place
that no one wanted to play. You know how many
(04:24):
times has Lebron James been a free agent said eh,
never want to play there. Remember, the New York Knicks
moved heaven and earth to try and get Kevin Durant,
and when he wanted to bring Kyrie Irving with him,
they sort of passed. He ended up with the Brooklyn Nets.
But nonetheless, the fact that the Knicks wanted him. He
was a free agent, he talked to the Knicks and
didn't go there. The Knicks that were not a destination.
(04:47):
It was because there was just what was the what
was the magnet who was had the gravitational pull that
was pulling people in? And I believe that's Sjalen Brunson.
What the Knicks have have come to understand is what
many people in business already know is that culture is
(05:08):
just about everything. And I get it, like, there's gonna
be limitations. Josh Harts has limitations as a player, not
a great player, but man's a good for your culture.
I know Dante DiVincenzo and that elimination game had a
great game, and we know him as white Dante from
the National Championship Game, but in truth, he's probably best
off being a bench player.
Speaker 5 (05:28):
Mikhale Bridges again.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
He's if he's your third or fourth offensive option, you're
really good. And Jalen Brunson's probably best if he's your
second best offensive scorer.
Speaker 5 (05:40):
But I was I was at.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
A let's call it a symposium a couple of weeks ago,
and it was all about culture and purpose Doug Goddibn
for Colin this is the herd. And one of the
statements made was like, look, if you invest in people,
if you really invest in culture, your growth for your
(06:04):
company is going to increase ten x. And the point
is that I understand how on paper, on paper, it
looks like one thing on paper, it looks like, ah,
we got overspent on Michale Bridges, he's just an okay player.
Maybe we're a little bit better OG and nobody has
(06:25):
gone how much better can they be? But I think
when your culture is as good as it will be
with those four Villanova guys, I think you'll have an
increase of ten x. I think others will follow, and
I think you're gonna have a really good team. I
think that becomes a team where you think that that's
next to the Celtics, the most competitive team in the East.
(06:48):
And look, I could tell you that there were times
in my life where I would say, ah, we're over
selling culture and you just got to go get the
best guys possible. But the Boston Celtics don't have the
best players possible. Jason Tatum's awesome, Jaylen Brown's very good.
(07:11):
But they have great culture. They buy into their roles
and that's why they're successful. And that investment in culture
is one of the things that's paid off for them
winning an NBA title. And I think the Knicks are
sitting there going like, all right, Villanova is the was
the model team, was the model college basketball program. Culture wins,
(07:37):
competitiveness wins, smart wins. That's all Villanova. Let's just go
get a bunch of Villanova guys. Don't know what the
price is, and you know what, kind.
Speaker 5 (07:46):
Of agree with them?
Speaker 4 (07:48):
I do kind of agree with them. Doug Otlibin for
colinists The Herd. You're on Fox Sports Radio and the
iHeartRadio App.
Speaker 5 (07:57):
What a show we got for you.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Now, the question becomes in the NBA draft do you
draft for culture or do you just draft for talent?
Like that's a real thing. Do you draft for culture
or do you draft for talent? The nickt trade for
Michale Bridges that obviously gets them some talent, but a
lot of culture. What happens to tonight's NBA draft?
Speaker 5 (08:22):
Coming up next?
Speaker 4 (08:23):
In The Herd, the Dolphins and Tua are at an impasse.
What should the Dolphins do next? We'll discuss.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
at noon Eastern not am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio App.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
Doug Gottliebin for calling this The Herd, Fox Sports Radio,
iHeartRadio App.
Speaker 5 (08:46):
Welcome in Hope.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
You're having just a wonderful, wonderful Wednesday, a draft day, Wednesday,
NBA Draft. But of course the NBA draft kind of
a snooze this year, especially in comparison to the NFL.
And with that, welcome to Jeff Howies and nowation NFL
insider for the Athletic and he joins us here in
the Herd. And Jeff, let's start with kind of some
(09:07):
of this quarterback discussion. We've seen Trevor Lawrence get a
new deal and now we're waiting to see what happens
in Green Bay or what happens in Miami. There's one
report out that the Dolphins and Tua can't find a
middle ground. What are you hearing about the Dolphins and
their quarterback?
Speaker 6 (09:27):
Well, it's a tricky one because both sides have what
they feel is pretty strong leverage. And I wouldn't be
surprised if this kind of goes closer to little Lamar
Jackson territory where it kind of drags out where the
Dolphins kind of want to to keep proving that he
is worth the money that I would assume that he
wants probably in that fifty there, certainly in that fifty
(09:48):
plus million dollar a year range. And if you're the Dolphins,
it's okay to be skeptical because two years ago was
an injury shortened season. Of course last year, you know,
similar problems that they kind of face. The Dolphins as
a whole, we're also in the spotlight with two in particular.
You know, they were really good in the regular season
and then fizzled out when it started to matter most.
(10:09):
So you know, the Dolphins have the contractual leverage where
they can have to play this thing out and if
he has an MVP caliber season this year and they
have to give him something more than you know, some
something closer to the fifty million dollars ballpark, it now
creeps towards sixty you know what, then, so be it.
That's the gamble you take. So I understand why both
(10:32):
sides could conceivably be far enough apart where obviously they
still don't have a deal.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
Okay, what what's the leverage that that he has, Like,
I don't know of any leverage, I mean other than
you know, if they eventually get to a franchise tag
situation that costs against the cap, but he can't go anywhere.
Speaker 6 (10:54):
Yeah, but you know, the cap. I'm sorry, the franchise
tag is useful for the teams, but it all so
kills your cap if you can't turn that into more
of an extension. So you don't want a situation where
all of a sudden you've got, you know, Dak Prescott
playing up last year of his deal in Dallas. You know,
it would be a similar type of cap constraint if
you play that year to year tag game Toa's leverage
(11:16):
is the number just keeps going up. And I think
you look at, you know, the way the quarterback market
has exploded really the last two years. I mean, it
started in twenty eighteen with Matt Ryan, but the way
that it's kind of gone so disproportionately off course here
in the last couple off seasons where yeah, you've got
guys who are cashing in and getting these contracts that
(11:38):
are well deserved, but then you've got other ones that
are more questionable. When you've got Daniel Jones getting forty
million a year and you've got other guys starting to
approach that fifty million dollar mark, where you've got to
wonder whether that type of contract is going to come
back and bite them. But I mean, if you're TUA
and you're betting on yourself, and you sit there and
you look at what the the dolphin history recent history
(12:01):
a quarterback has been You can say, all right, well,
you don't want to pay me and you want to
risk losing me, and or do you want to let
this thing go tag by tag year by year. You know,
all of a sudden, the what they the organization would
have hoped to solidify the quarterback position long term, you know,
becomes more of a tenuous battle. I guess that's really
(12:22):
what I'm trying to get at.
Speaker 5 (12:23):
With the leverage, What does Jordan Loves? What's that deal
coming at?
Speaker 6 (12:28):
He's gonna be I would assume closer to fifty five.
And I think that's pretty wild too, because he played,
He was as good as just about any quarterback in
the league down the stretch last year. It's it's a
little it's certainly a gamble to pay a guy that
much money off of a half season's worth of great pay.
But you know, this was kind of the Packers plan
(12:50):
all along, in turning over the keys to Love when
they parted with Rogers and watching him in practice and
kind of seeing him perform. I mean, it's one thing.
And this isn't just the case of Jordan Love. This
is the case with a lot of young quarterbacks, especially
the guys who sit You sit there and you watch
them play well in practice, and you say all the
right things, and you're telling the media that, Okay, this
(13:12):
guy looks like the real deal. But there's always universally,
there's no exceptions. There's always that seed of doubt. What's
he going to look like when he starts to play
in live games? Is that practice stuff going to transition
over to the game field. Is it going to transition
when the when it gets a lot more tense down
the stretch of the regular season or into the playoffs.
And Jordan Love answered a lot of those questions. Now, again,
(13:34):
I'm not going to back off from the fact that
it's a little bit of a gamble to pay a
guy off of that short of the sample size, But
if the Packers are comfortable with it from the entire
body of work over the last few years, then you've
got to see him coming in around fifty five.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Doug Gottliebin for Collin. This is the Herd Fox Sports Radio,
the iHeartRadio EP. Jeff, How's our guest, the National NFL
insider for the Athletic.
Speaker 5 (13:58):
You know it's interesting, Jeff.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
Last year this time, all the talk was running backs
running back running backs from Oh the running backs were
on a phone together. They're trying to drive up their
value for people who have been paying attention because the
running backs have been a lot quieter. They've changed places.
Saquon Barkley's changed places, Dereck Henry's changed places. What's the
running back market look like now? For those same players.
Speaker 6 (14:20):
It's not as good as I think they I mean,
last year it didn't pan out how they wanted, and
you saw a lot of guys cave because, you know,
quite frankly, the money was what it was, and you
can any one of us could sit there and say, yeah,
we want this amount of money, but if that's not
what your employer is willing to pay you, then you
know it's a it's a lost battle there. But I
(14:40):
think what you saw this offseason in free agency was
kind of like the middle the upper middle class heightened
their floor, so you're not going to get really four
or five years ago, when those top guys were all
getting about fifteen or you know, fourteen to sixteen million
dollars a year. That tapered off pretty considerably over the
(15:03):
last two years. But what was really interesting was over
the last year and a half. You had that top tier,
and say for a guy like Christian maccaffery or what
have you. But you've got that top tier usually in
like the twelve to fifteen range. So it bottomed out
a little bit. But then what was fascinating what I'm
getting at here, is once you got below twelve and
then that franchise number from a year ago, which was
(15:24):
ten point one, then it dropped down to seven per year,
and there was nobody in that middle ground. So right
now what you're seeing is more of a there. There's
a few more bodies in that middle area. So there's
no longer that giant void from twelve down to seven
with those franchise numbers in between. So even though that
doesn't get these guys back to where they were around
(15:47):
twenty twenty or twenty nineteen, it gets a lot more
guys a little more money than they maybe they had
been used to a couple of years ago.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
Okay, then we have wide receivers. Where with Brandon Ayuk
and the Niners, I mean that.
Speaker 6 (16:04):
One seems to still be at the failmmate. I mean
it's the forty nine ers have done a really good
job obviously, looking where they've been playing in January February.
The last few years, they've done a tremendous job of
identifying their elite talent and retaining a good portion of them.
The problem there is when you have so many of them,
eventually you kind of got to cut ties at some
(16:27):
point and paying Ayuk and Deebo Samuel that money when
you've got stars and so many other positions across the roster.
Now that kind of hurts the middle class of their roster.
And you know, even the last couple of years talking
to some of their rivals around the league, but yeah, okay,
there is talented as anybody that anybody in the NFL.
(16:47):
But their problem is when they run into these injury issues,
which have been very high profile ones, you kind of
see the middle class of the roster take a bit
of a dip. And that's why you kind of saw
them struggle in some of the bigger moments. Not necessarily
last year, I don't think, but you know, prior a
couple of years. So you know, they're running into this
situation where, yeah, Brandon Ayuk wants to be paid like
(17:09):
a number one wide receiver, but right now number one
wide receiver is getting twenty five to thirty million dollars
a year, and I just don't know if it's practical
from a team building standpoint for the forty nine ers
to go through with that.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
I would I would agree, And it's just really interesting,
right and that what's the value there? So what happens
if they don't want to go through that? Like what
do they trade them?
Speaker 5 (17:33):
What do they do?
Speaker 6 (17:35):
I think? I think if you're the forty nine ers,
you want to be greedy, You want to see if
you can squeeze one more year out of Devo and
Ayuk together. And if Ayuk really puts his foot down
and says, look, I'm not I'm not showing up. I'm
like trade me or pay me, but there's no in between,
then I think the forty nine ers hands and tied
a little bit more and they try to figure out, Okay,
(17:55):
what what makes the most sense. Do you pay Ayu,
can trade Debo and kind of deal with whatever kaprilifications
come from moving on Deevo's contract, or do you just
make it a whole lot easier on yourself and trade
Ayuk to a team that will pay him like a
number one wide receiver. Because I'm sure there are going
to be a handful of those out there, and then
you kind of recoup some draft capital. So I think
(18:17):
priority one for the forty nine ers is to see
if Ayuk will hang around for one more year before
they make the tougher decision. But if I really wants
to force his hands here, I wouldn't be surprised if
he's the one they have to move.
Speaker 5 (18:31):
Awesome stuff, Jeff, awesome awesome stuff.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
Uh, what one more for you as an insider, Who's
the team everybody's talking about? Not the media like we
lock in on Cowboys, we lock in on Jets and
Aaron Rodgers, you know, no showing for uh for for
OTAs who's the team everyone else is talking about that
(18:55):
we should be paying more attention to.
Speaker 6 (18:58):
Oh boy, Uh, You've got me a little bit of
a summer brain on that one. Just trying to.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
You know, let me let me, let me, let me
ask you, Let me ask you about the Jets. That's
about the Jets based upon the people. You know, we
all think it's a big deal because it's Aaron regressing
towards Aaron when he was in Green Bay right last year,
was I'm going to show up at all these events?
I'm all about it. I'm at every I'm at every practice.
Everything this year is I'll be there when I need.
Speaker 5 (19:30):
To be there. What are the Jets people say about it?
Speaker 6 (19:35):
There's a lot of uh, there's a lot of raised
eyebrows around the league with what the Jets potential can
be or or should be, compared to what maybe the
hype is, especially coming out of New York. I mean,
it's it's like you were saying, kind of to add
to your point, Aaron Rodgers starts the off season by
saying you've got to cut out all the unnecessary distractions,
and then is gone or mandatory many camp. I mean,
(19:58):
that's and that's not that's not like an off beat,
like that's a football distraction. That is an avoidable distraction. Now,
granted we don't have any answers, and if it's a
personal matter that he absolutely had to attend to, then
you know, I would absolutely walk back what I'm saying here.
But all I can go by is what they're telling us.
And that was a pre planned absence that the Jets
(20:21):
were then not even forthcoming about until the week of
mini camp. So now you take a football your most
important football player off the football field, and that's an
unnecessary distraction. So it's more of the same with the Jets.
This is Yeah, it's an absolutely talented roster. They've done
a really good job of acquiring young talent through the
draft the last three years. And there is a lot
(20:41):
of room for error because they have so much young
talent there and and if all those guys start to
really or start to rise together, then they're going to
be a dangerous team. But I'm telling you, like their
rival executives and coaches around the league are more of
a let's wait and see if the Jets are for
real before we buy into all this hype, because it's
(21:02):
been the same story with the Jets for many.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
Years, many many, many years, many years. You're the best man,
Thanks so much for joining us. Really appreciate you here
spending some time with us here.
Speaker 5 (21:12):
In the Herd.
Speaker 6 (21:13):
Of course, thanks all for having me. I have a
good one, Jeff.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
How does a great job? NFL insider for the athletic
Let's get to the news with Rye music.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
Right, No, no, no.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
This is the Herdline News.
Speaker 5 (21:29):
What do you got right?
Speaker 3 (21:30):
All right, Doug? A lot of NFL talk that we'll
have some more at the end of this herd line.
But we're going to turn our attention to the NBA
for this first story. Kevin Durant or Devin Booker on
the trade block, Well, that's what the Rockets are certainly
hoping for, as they're keeping an eye on a big
time difference maker to help get them into the mix
of the Western Conference. According to ESPN, the Rockets are
(21:54):
monitoring Booker and Durant's availability right now, while the Suns
are currently interested in moving either of their stars.
Speaker 7 (22:02):
But I had its night's draft.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
The Rockets have the number three overall pick and they
could be willing to move off of one of their
young stars in Alprin Shane Goon. So the Rockets looking
to maybe get that big time veteran all star difference
maker to take them from fringe playing team to firmly
in the mix of the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
I think this is fascinating, right, So who do you
think they're willing to come off of. I mean, to me,
it's pretty obvious what Phoenix needs.
Speaker 5 (22:32):
What do you think that is? Right?
Speaker 7 (22:35):
I think they need more depth and size.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
Nope, okay, they need a one and a five. So
I don't think they're gonna shanuin. I don't think they will.
I don't think they'll be able to move. Plus, I
don't think he fits what they need.
Speaker 5 (22:48):
They need not to kick.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
But wouldn't a five fit the definition of size?
Speaker 4 (22:54):
Yes, but it's it's fine. They need a point guard.
Who's Houston's point guard Fred than elite? So that's that's
the question, Right, is Houston willing to give up Fred
van Vliet for Kevin Durant?
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Because I mean, if you would, certainly think they would.
Speaker 5 (23:15):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
I don't know what the answer that is. I do
think they're going try and take that next step. I
think it's gonna be fascinating, Like that's a really interesting
trade for both teams, because for Houston that would absolutely
kind of put them in at least some part of
the discussion to being a team atop. But what would
they look like if like Jalen Green is a supreme talent,
(23:40):
but he's not a point you have Jabari Smith. I
don't think they're thinking about parting ways with Jabari Smith.
I would think that, you know, again, Chegwain, you're not
wrong that that would be somebody that people would want.
I don't know if the Suns need more scoring, they
need defense at at the in terms of interior size,
(24:02):
and that's not what he does. I think they want
Van Vliet, and I just don't know if they're willing
to part with him in order to get Kevin Durant.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
Yeah, I mean, if you're the Rockets, I'm not sure
why you wouldn't make that move though, Like I think
Fred Van Vliet's a really nice player, and maybe you know,
Ime Udoka looks at him as some type of cultural cornerstone, correct,
But I mean he's not necessarily and I know Kevin Durrant.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
He's not Jalen Brunson, but he's there kind of Jalen Brunson, sure,
And so the question is how much do you value
that over Kevin Durant, who's you know, well, he's not
what he used to be.
Speaker 8 (24:40):
He's still twenty five a night, right, I guess the
other because the other part too, that is like, granted
it's not that Durant is a young player by any means,
but neither is Fred van Vliet.
Speaker 7 (24:52):
Like he's very thirty.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
So it's not like you're going to have some extensive
runway of him being the foundation of you know, an
eight year run here.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
Yeah, but you can't think eight year run, right, you
got it? Like, what are we doing in the next
two years?
Speaker 6 (25:07):
Right?
Speaker 7 (25:07):
But that's why to me it's a no brainer.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
In the next two years, you're likely to get more
out of Kevin Durant than a Fred van Vliet.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
I guess you're You're more likely to get more out
of Kevin Rant and you are Fred VanVleet.
Speaker 5 (25:21):
But what about everybody else on the team?
Speaker 4 (25:24):
Can you get more out of everybody else in the
team that you wouldn't get out of them if.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
You don't have Fred VanVleet. That's my question.
Speaker 7 (25:30):
Yeah, that question.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
You know, it's like it's the old wins above replacement,
like you can replace them. You know you can score more?
Will you win more? And you know the one thing
the Sons learned the hard way is I get it true?
Point guards have gone the way mostly of the Dodo. Right,
you got like Chris.
Speaker 7 (25:47):
Paul and right.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
And even he's not really good enough anymore to do
it on his own. TJ from from Indy he comes
off the bench. But you do need a point guard.
It's on some level to get everybody where they need
to get to even if they are a score.
Speaker 5 (26:04):
So all right, what else?
Speaker 3 (26:06):
All right, We'll turn back to the NFL here. The
Cardinals are looking to turn things around this season, in
large part due to a healthy Kyler Murray, who only
played in eight games last year coming off that knee surgery. Well,
Arizona's tight end Trey McBride, here's what he had to
say about Kyler.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Give me the best elevator pitch for Kyler Murray MVP
candidate in.
Speaker 6 (26:29):
Twenty twenty four.
Speaker 9 (26:29):
Yeah, this is my third year with him now, and
he seems more motivated than ever. He's a guy who's
bringing everyone together. We're throwing every weekend. We're getting everyone together,
and he's in the building, first one in, last one out.
You know, he's one of those guys who's doing everything
the right way. And this is the most confident I've
seen him. This is his first year that I've been
fully healthy with him. He's fully healthy. I think everything's
(26:52):
trending in the right way. He has a ton of
weapons out there, and I have full confidence that he's
capable of an MVP season.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Collins always been a defender of Kyler Murray as just
a talent in the NFL and some of the behind
the scenes in terms of ownership and overall structure of
the Cardinals and the things he's had to overcome. Are
you seeing a big bounce back? Maybe not MVP. Look
(27:22):
what else do you expect to hear out of his
teammate and past catcher?
Speaker 4 (27:26):
If what I expect to hear, Yes, Like he's the
tight end who I'd never heard of for the years
of a Cardinals. So of course he's going to say
all these positive things about Kyler Murray, all of them.
I have no idea his level of work of it.
I would think it's way better. I think he's a
(27:46):
supreme talent. I like him more than I like Tua,
just because he has great arm strength in addition to
great hallusiveness. And if he's figured out how he has
to work at it, then there's no reason he can
be He can't be special this year. You're in a
division which is interesting, right the Rams man. I mean,
(28:07):
now you have two elite wide receivers and you feel
like McVeigh granted gaping hole on defense, losing one of
the best defensive players in football maybe in the history
of football up front, but offensively they should be top
notch Niners still the favorites, and then you got Seattle,
who's kind of stuck a little bit no man's land
on the offensive side of the ball. Like, do I
(28:29):
see them as a bounce back year. Yeah, Jonathan Gannon
was much better as a coach than anyone could have thought.
Embarrassing first press conference and some of that video stuff
they had, but after that he's been awesome. So yeah,
I think if Kyler's healthy, they got a different dynamic
than other teams.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Yeah, I mean, obviously the addition of Marvin Harrison Junior
gives that offense a lot more juice than perhaps they
had last year. And yeah, I mean, as you said,
maybe the toughest thing that they'll have to overcome my
be their own division, let alone anything else. And we'll
wrap up with this, Doug. It is the cultural phenomenon
(29:06):
and the celebrity love story. People just can't get enough
of Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey. Here's the latest. The Chiefs,
the NFL and the Hallmark Channel are producing a Hollywood movie.
Speaker 7 (29:19):
All right, excuse me, a.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Holiday movie titled Holiday Touchdown, a Chief's Love Story. Now officially,
according to the press releases, there is nothing directly connecting
this movie to Taylor or Travis or anything in that regard,
But I think we all get a pretty clear understanding
of what's sort of happening and what they're getting at here.
Speaker 5 (29:42):
Yeah, I'm good on that. I'll probably not myself.
Speaker 7 (29:44):
WHOA really Yeah, I don't know, Doug, I see you.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
I mean, yesterday, we spent the last segment of the
show talking about things to do when you're on a flight,
and I would have easily pegged you as a Hallmark
movie kind of guy.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
No, no, I do miss the Good Afternoon School Special
After School Special.
Speaker 5 (30:05):
I think you're probably too young to remember that, but
we just have to.
Speaker 7 (30:08):
Yeah, that one flew right over my head.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
After School after School Special. I think that was like
a Wednesday. I mean, like, look, you're not even alling
to remember when MTV actually played music videos and people
would watch that.
Speaker 7 (30:18):
That's not true.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
I was there for for like TRL and stuff like that.
Speaker 5 (30:24):
Request Live. Yeah, all right, I like that hashtag TRL
now probably right, isn't it? Yeah?
Speaker 7 (30:30):
I mean, is it still a thing?
Speaker 4 (30:32):
Yeah? I know hard pass on the Taylor shift Travis
Kelce unauthorized flick.
Speaker 10 (30:38):
By the way, I give them an f on the
title of this movie, like they couldn't come up with
anything more creative than Holiday Touchdown? Is that what it's called? Holiday?
Speaker 3 (30:50):
Holiday Touchdown? A Chiefs love story?
Speaker 10 (30:53):
Oh my goodness. It reminds me of this local show
that tries to keep the viewer from the NBA Finals
And it's a local news show with a couple NBA
players and they call it slam Dunk And I'm like,
they can't come up with anything more creative than slam Dunk.
(31:14):
That's the name of the show because it's a basketball show.
Speaker 4 (31:17):
Hey, listen, my show is called the Doug Gottlieb Show.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
And that's great.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
Well, it's not like we we are experts in creativity.
So that is Ryan Y's for the news.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Well that's the news and stopping the Herd line news.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
So a lot of discussion obviously about Kaitlin Clark and
the kind of takeover of women's basketball. Wait do you
hear what Magic Johnson tweeted about Kaylen Clark? It's actually interesting.
It's actually next and the hurt.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noone Easter not a Empacific.
Speaker 7 (31:58):
Hey, what's up?
Speaker 11 (31:58):
Everybody? It's me three times pro bowler LeVar Arrington, and
I couldn't be more excited to announce a podcast called
up on Game.
Speaker 7 (32:06):
What is up on Game?
Speaker 11 (32:07):
You asked, along with my fellow pro bowler TJ. Hutchman,
Zada and Super Bowl champion. Yep, that's right, Plexico Burris.
You can only name a show with that type of
talent on it.
Speaker 5 (32:18):
Up on Game.
Speaker 11 (32:19):
We're going to be sharing our real life experiences loaded
with teachable moments. Listen to Up on Game with Me
LeVar Arrington, TJ Hutchman, Zada, and Plexico Burrs on the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast from.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
Doug allimin for colonists, The Herd on Fox Sports Radio,
the iHeart Radio app. My resident x or Twitter reader
is Jason Stewart.
Speaker 5 (32:50):
Of course, it's a producer.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
Of the Doug otlib Show, which follows the show on
most Fox Sports Radio affiliates. He along with Ryan music
Or producing This Yere's Show, and usually Ja Due. Usually
we make fun of Magic Johnson's tweets because they are
Captain Obvious thinks they're a bit obvious, right. What was
his tweet regarding Caitlyn Clark and Angelies.
Speaker 10 (33:13):
Well, referring to your first point, I have to take
credit for this. I was way out in front of
this that Magic's Twitter account either is manned by somebody
who doesn't know basketball that well and just tweets obvious stuff,
or it's Magic and he just doesn't have a whole
(33:34):
lot of insight into things. It's remarkable. It's almost like
he's been trolling us all these years. Like he he'll
just say something like the AT Suns are up thirty
points to the AT Hawks, and then you're like, yeah, Magic, thanks,
we couldn't have gone online or have gone on to
the TV to see that. So this is what he
tweeted yesterday. And I think this is like a topical.
(33:57):
This is a good sports topic. He says, when when
I think about Kaitlin Clark and Angel Reese's impact on
the game, they remind me a lot of Larry Burden.
Me our first meeting in Indiana State Michigan State in
the title game set the all time viewership record. Caitlin
and Angels twenty twenty three Championship title game matchup and
their twenty four Elite Eight games for the highest viewership
(34:19):
records of all time. He's implying that he thinks that
Angel Rees and Kaitlin Clark could possibly have the same
impact on the NBA that he and Larry Bird did.
What do you think about that, well.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
On the WNBABA. Yeah, look, I actually I made that
comparison myself. They're not the same players. Angel Reese is
not nearly as dynamic with the ball. She's not a
game changer. Remember when when Magic and Bird came in Magic,
we hadn't seen a six foot nine point guard had
happened before. And and Larry Bird was such a force multiplayer.
(34:58):
I think they went from twenty nine wins to sixty
wins in his first year. So and that's the kind
of I don't You're not going to get there with
Kaitlyn Clark. But remember they were the worst team in
the WNBA. Now they're fighting for playoff position. But I
do think the White Black, I do think the fact
they played, they played for a championship going back to
(35:19):
last year, and yeah, I just think the whole and
they of course met again this year. I do think
there's parallels there. And remember this is they have collectively
and really most of it is is Kaitlyn Clark have
lifted the WNBA to new heights. I don't think it's
a terrible analogy. It's right message, it's probably wrong messenger
(35:44):
would be my guess. And remember Larry Bird all time
great and he didn't win a championship. Part of that
was he wasn't surrounded by the greatest players when he's
in Indiana state, good players, but not elite. And I'd
say the same thing for IOWA. Right when they've lost,
they've lost to a team with better players, better overall help.
Speaker 10 (36:01):
But could we talk about the kind of the status
of the leagues when each of these pairs entered the
league because the NBA was obviously at a low in
the late seventies and the finals were on tape delay
and whatnot. But I don't think the NBA quite put
all their eggs in one basket with Magic and Bird.
I think the Magic Bird thing happened over time and
(36:22):
it evolved into changing the game. But I don't think
there was the expectation that the Kaitlin Clark thing, like
the WNBA has spent money, spent money they don't have.
I'm banking on Kaitlin Clark being transcendent so I think
in that respect, I don't think it's apples to apples, right.
This is the WNBA needs Kaitlin Clark much more than
(36:43):
the NBA was expecting to need Magic and Bird.
Speaker 7 (36:47):
No.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
Uh yeah, I mean, look, I can't tell you the
financial details of most NBA teams.
Speaker 5 (36:55):
I can tell you this, Okay, this real story.
Speaker 4 (36:58):
My late father went to my grandpa, and my grandpa
was he put himself through school, worked nights, went to
City College in New York. And then what he did
to make his money to start his accounting practice and
to pay for his school was he rented a box
truck with a buddy. They would go down to the
(37:20):
docks in New York. They'd buy fish, and then they
had a route and they would go sell fish to
the restaurants. And then he'd sleep all the rest of
the day and then get up at night and go
to night class.
Speaker 5 (37:30):
And go do it again and again. Became an accountant
for me. An accountant.
Speaker 4 (37:33):
He took over a car dealership along Island and it
was I think the most successful car dealership at the time.
He was like one of the first to do leasing options.
And when guys would come back from Korea, and Vietnam.
He'd meet him at the boat with a brand new Cadillac.
Speaker 5 (37:49):
So he was really successful.
Speaker 4 (37:53):
And my dad tried to talk him into buying the
new Jersey Nets in nineteen eighty one for one million night.
One may knows the league was a mess. I don't
know though, if it was as bad as it's being perceived.
And I also know that the WNBA. Let's not act
(38:14):
like the league was healthy for a long time, just
we have no idea how unhealthy. They moved a lot
of teams around, they got out of a bunch of arenas,
they got private ownership groups, but it was still was
subsidized by the NBA. So I can't tell you how
bad it was. But I do think that a blind
man can see the NBA went from tape delay to
being the biggest show on Earth, and the WNBA has
(38:35):
gone from a fledgling league that you know, has a
niche audience to selling out, you know, NBA style arenas
and being the talk of the town because Cathlin Clark.
I do think there's a parallel there.
Speaker 10 (38:50):
Yeah, I think that the that the Angel Reese is
I think more of a tag along in this respect.
I think Magic and Bird were on the same top
level tier for the entire decade. I think that Angel
Reese is considerably behind Caitlin in popularity and as a draw,
I think it will always be an interesting rivalry, but
(39:10):
I don't think they're ever gonna be equals. Is kind
of a relevant draw? What do you think I.
Speaker 5 (39:17):
Would agree as of now?
Speaker 4 (39:19):
I do think okay, I do think there is something
that Angel Reese's and and she's part of this Kaitlin
Clark's dodent as well, where you know, like the kind
of runway model thing.
Speaker 5 (39:30):
I think that sells.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
I also think, you know, we're talking about it from
you know, white male in your forties kind of perspective,
although I know you're fifty now, but what white male's
sort of perspective. I think Angel Reese is actually a
lot more popular than maybe even we give it credit.
It pales in popularity in comparison to to Caitlin Clark.
I am not arguing that, but I do think that
within her target demo, she's really popular. People like her. Now,
(39:57):
is she as skilled as talented? Can she take over game?
She's put a bunch of these double doubles. When you
watch her she's not terribly skilled, she's she's more about
the fact that she just works really, really hard. So
if that's the argument, then you're right. If the argument
is overall popularity, of course appeals in comparison to Kaylyn Clark.
But I do think that she separates herself and that
(40:19):
she does have her own kin little fan base that
she plays to. And I think playing up the fact
that these are beautiful women, I don't think. I don't
see as a downside to it. It's not something they've
ever done before. Give us your thoughts, so they're always
interesting to hear yours at Gottlieb Show on Twitter, at
Gottlieb Show on Instagram as well. All right, coming up
(40:43):
next in the Herd. You know, we're all kind of
guilty of this, Okay. We conflate popular and good or
popular and talented or popular and successful, and it's not
necessarily the same thing. And I think Bronnie James is
(41:07):
the perfect example of it. His name, by my estimation,
will be mentioned more in the next two days than
any basketball player on Earth. Any basketball player on Earth,
including Caitlin Clark, including lebron James, including Kevin Durant. You know,
barring Kevin Durant being traded, but even if he has traded,
because the NBA Draft is on for the next two nights,
(41:29):
I think Bronnie James will be talked about because he's
incredibly popular. How do you balance that with how good
somebody is. Let's get into that discussion next. I'm Doug Gottlieb.
Speaker 5 (41:39):
This is the hurt
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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