3 & Out - Hard Knocks recap, Who to blame in NY, Mailbag

John discusses the last from HBO's Hard Knocks where the Giants fail to re-sign Saquon and how they had no idea that he was going to the Eagles. Later, John answers your questions when he does a massive mailbag by diving more into the Giants, what Prime is doing in Colorado, thoughts on the College Football Playoffs, and much more.

11:18 - Hard Knocks recap

18:16 - Mailbag

24:49 - The Giants blame should fall on the Mara's

30:52 - Colorado and Deion are a big fugazi

35:59 - College Football Playoff expansion

41:06 - Where would LT get drafted in an All-Time draft

45:54 - Will SF be back in the SB

48:10 - Why is no one talking about Seattle

1:01:17 - The importance of good ownership

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
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dot com slash dfs What is going on? Everybody? John

(02:16):
middlecop three and out podcast. That would be me? That
would be the podcast.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
Hopefully everybody is doing well out there, Still up in
the Sierra Nevadas went for a little swim this morning.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, and
I'll say it every year because I've been coming up
here the majority of my life, and I think you
see it, anyone that watches any bit of the celebrity tournament,
if you ever get a chance to come to the

(02:42):
Lake Tahoe, North Lake, South Lake, the Nevada side, the
California side, there is something soul cleansing about it. It's
why those guys, those professional athletes, the football players, the
basketball players, the baseball players, the hockey guys that did
not grow up around this area, that don't play professionally

(03:03):
around this area, when they get a chance to go
to that tournament, they go back for the rest of
their life. They really do, because this is the best.
It just that there's you know, lake life, but this
lake is just I've never seen anything quite like it.
I really haven't. I went swimming today for about an

(03:24):
hour in it. It's just I love it. And I
highly recommend anyone that gets a chance to ever come
up here if you have not been some time in
your life, I promise you you will not regret it.
But while I was swimming. He kind of hit me,
you know, we haven't done a massive mail bag in
a while, So that's what I'm gonna do today at

(03:46):
John Middlecoff. At John Middlecoff is the Instagram, firing those
direct messages at John Middlecoff Instagram, firing those dms. Obviously
we're gonna do a ton of mail bags as this
preseason really gets going training. I guess we're still a
little bit away from the preseason games though. I saw
the Texans. The Veterans officially showed up today July seventeenth,

(04:08):
and they're the first team in the league that has
everybody there. So tomorrow they'll be on the field with
their entire squad rock and rolling. Now a little out
of the loop right now, brain is not really in
that mode, but clearly they're playing in the Hall of
Fame game because Andre Johnson's going in. So yeah, other

(04:28):
than that, we'll I got to hit on something off
the top that was televised last night, and then we'll
get into the mail bag. Appreciate everyone that has been
reaching out, especially you know, I got engaged and a
lot of you guys DMD and means a lot because
you guys are a huge part of my life. Even
though personally I don't know many of you, I feel

(04:49):
like I do, and whenever we come across out in
the real world, I don't I don't get a chance
enough to say how much I appreciate everybody. But I
was watching that clip that went viral of the country
singer during the home run derby that had a few
too many and it went viral as one of the

(05:09):
worst renditions of the national anthem ever, and I watched.
I didn't see it live as doing other stuff, watched
it last night. Turns out she was wasted. She checked
herself into rehab. But I've been to the All Star
Game before when it came to San Francisco a long
time ago, and it just makes like going to events
is awesome. The home run derby is really cool, the

(05:30):
All Star Game. Obviously, football games this fall, college or pro.
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(06:15):
Download the game Time app today. Last minute tickets, lowest
price is guaranteed. Before we get into the mail bag,
I do want to hit on something because I talked
about this a couple of days ago that I had
watched The Hard Knocks the first two episodes. The third
episode came out on Tuesday Night on The Giants, and
we posted a social clip and a lot of people basically,

(06:38):
I mean, essentially what I said is if Saquon Barkley
goes to the Eagles and has success, Joe Shane's going
to get fired. And I would imagine if they have
a bad year, Brian day Ball potentially gets fired as well.
I don't root for people to get fired. I truly don't.
I don't know these guys. Joe Shane seems like a
really nice guy. I don't really care. I mean, if

(06:59):
he keeps his job for another twenty years and makes
millions of dollars, great for him, Like just my prediction
watching the show, I don't see how you could argue,
how anyone could argue a Giants fan, a non Giants fan,
if you just watch the whatever hour forty five minutes
of content on that series, and your takeaway is the

(07:20):
owner was not comfortable with this. Now, the owner didn't meddle.
He let Joe Shane do whatever he wanted, but he
was adamant, like are we sure? Are we sure? And
then in the third episode when he said I don't
know if I could sleep at night with him going
to the Eagles. Listen, I'm all for letting running backs walk.
I'm all four not paying premiums for that position. But

(07:42):
here's the thing, he's no longer a premium. If you
want to buy a car that's fifty k and you go,
that's a little overvalued, and then in a year, that
same car, with you know, a little bit more miles
is twenty eight thousand dollars, you could argue that's now
a goodbye. And I looked at the contracts last night
after I watched. I didn't actually watch the episode, I

(08:04):
just watched the clips. I haven't had time yet, but
I watched the main clip of Mara in the office
with Joe and Brandon Brown his other crew talking, you know,
basically shaking his head and walking out, and I looked
they gave two years ago Daniel Jones ninety two million
dollars guaranteed. His cap hit this year is forty seven
million dollars. Forty seven million dollars. Saquon Barkley got twenty

(08:28):
six million dollars. The difference in those two numbers is
sixty six million dollars. Saquon Barkley's cap hit this year
for the Eagles is three point eight million dollars. So yeah,
the Zeke contract, the Todd Gurley contract, those were bad deals.
Those are no longer what these guys are signing. And
Howie Roseman talked about it. He's like, this is now

(08:49):
a bargain deal for a player that is an impact guy.
And listen, I've thought over the year, Saquon's a little
overrated because people talked about him being like the best
running back in the league. But he's damn good. And
if I get him for twenty six million dollars guaranteed.
That's bargain shopping. I mean, we see guards going for
forty to fifty guaranteed making eighteen nineteen twenty million dollars

(09:11):
a year. This guy's making twelve thirteen million. So it
just looks And I heard Colin talk about it, little
Mickey Mouse. It feels like this guy, nice guy, smart guy,
looks the part. It just doesn't really know what's going on.
And the comment before John Morris said it was like, yeah,

(09:33):
I don't think he's going to Philly. I think I
think Chicago's driving up the price. Not that worried about it.
Your job as a general manager, nobody. I'll promise you
this has more information in these situations than Howie Roseman
even separate from sign in saque bark. I'm just saying
the market of his players, the market of other players.
Why constantly has worked the phones for twenty plush years

(09:57):
knows everybody. Information is their gold. It is the asset
that is most important to these guys because you need
it to make decisions, you need it to answer to
these owners. And you watch a guy that just I
don't know if he doesn't have the connections, I don't
know if he doesn't have the ability to work these situations.
And I'm not crushing him for letting a player go,

(10:19):
I'm crushing him. Excuse I'm not even crushing I'm just
saying that, like, the owner is not comfortable with this,
and ultimately, the owner is the guy that signs the checks.
The owner is the guy that's fired countless people post
Tom Coffin. That's not an opinion, that's a fact. So
when you watch the Giants little to no direction this series,
which has been cool because it's been very open in

(10:43):
terms of the access we get, very unlike the other
hard knocks in recent years, I would not be comfortable
if I was the guy. I really wouldn't because every
week you're not just worried about your own team, which,
let's face it, even Giants fans know this not going
to be very good. You're terrified of the Eagles because
if they're good and he's good, the owner's not going

(11:06):
to be happy. Let's get to the mailbag. I know
Jim Harbaught is your guy, but help some of us
understand how you draft him in the top five of
your coach draft and leave Sean Payton completely off seventy

(11:30):
three total games, forty nine twenty two and one, five
and three in the playoffs, no Super Bowls. I don't
care what he did in college. I kind of do.
I kind of do. Like I don't think you can
just compare Jim Harbaugh to Sean Payton and listen, I'll
wear this one. If I was doing a where Colin
was right, well, Colin was wrong on this one. Sean Payton,

(11:53):
I should have found a place for him on the list.
But that's fair, that's a I feel worse about him
than I do about Stefan Skain. I like to fin
Ski as well. It's a hard list to make. If
I redid the list today, there's a decent chance. But
look at his last couple of years in New Orleans,
look at last year with Russell Wilson. I also bought
this list for the next five years. And I'm not

(12:14):
anti Sean Payton at all, like I understand like if
he was my coach, I wouldn't feel I'd feel pretty
good about it. But I don't think there's a general
manager in the league today that would take Jim. They
would take Sean Payton over Jim Harbaugh. And I know
for a fact, under no circumstance would I And I'm sorry,
Like what you do in college, college kind of became

(12:34):
a lot like the NFL with nil with working your
roster and Jim Harbor the last three years is dominated.
And obviously he just won the National Championship with an
NFL team, And what did he do at Stanford took
over a joke and by the end they're in the
BCS and his team was loaded with the NFL players.
So like we can do the resumes. Obviously, Sean Payton
has a Super Bowl, but like shit, two thousand and nine,

(12:56):
guess what, I was working at Fresno State and had
a head of hair, Like that's a long fucking time ago.
It really is. It's a long time ago. I watched
Sean Payton. Then after that, didn't Jim Harbaugh play Sean
Payton in the playoffs? Didn't that happen? And didn't Jim
beat him a couple years later for the forty nine ers.

(13:17):
I'm just trying to uh remember that one. But that
happened with Alex Smith, remember that one in twenty eleven,
So they played head to head in a big game.
He had drew Brees, Harbaugh had Alex Smith. Guess who
won the game, Harbaugh. But again I don't care, like
I'm not a huge hold on to fifteen years ago,

(13:37):
Like it doesn't matter to me. I mean it does.
For like talking the legacy and stuff I'm talking today,
was Shane Steiken Even in the NFL in two thousand
and nine, Demiko Ryans was a star player. So we
have to live in the present in two thousand and
nine or twenty fifteen, like Belichick now, Andy Reid's the
top dog. Once upon a time, Michael Jordan was the

(13:58):
best player, then Tobe Ryan it was, and then Lebron
like things change. So listen, if you want to be
critical of me for Sean Payton, I can live with that.
I got thick skin. But under no circumstances would I
put Sean Payton above Jim Harbaugh right now, And anyone
listening tell me this if you had to, If I

(14:18):
told you the next three years, just picked the next
three years. All rosters are even. Are you taking Jim
Harbaugh or Sean Payton. I think most people, I think
the overwhelming majority. I'm not saying one hundred percent. I
think Harbaugh would be I don't know eighty five fifteen
ratio and this talking Jim Harball, He's one of the

(14:39):
best coaches of my lifetime. Think how many guys can
go both and kick ass? Urban Meyer run out in
less than a year, Spurrier laughed at in the NFL
Chip Kelly kind of a joke now in both but
like couldn't do the jump, got weeded out within a
couple of years. Harbaugh seamlessly does both. Hey, John, congrats

(15:01):
on the engagement. Appreciate it. I graduated back in four
What makes you the most nostalgic that time of that time?
And what do you miss the most about the two thousands?
Go pack go as I age. I'm sure, like many
you find yourself getting nostalgic about certain things, maybe friends

(15:24):
lost or family lost. But I would say I am
much more nostalgic about the nineties than I am during
the two thousands. Would probably be my overall take. I
find when it comes to sports, whether it's Michael Jordan,
whether it's you know, some of those forty nine er teams.

(15:44):
When it comes to sports, even Barry Bonds, but he
went into the two thousands. But music movies, I am
much more nostalgic about my childhood than I am the
college days. I listen, and I don't blame anyone for
being this, but I am not that guy that liked
wish I'd go back to college. You mean living in

(16:05):
a tidy room with no money. I mean no, I
would much rather be where I'm at today. I have
honestly never thought since I left college and I graduated
college in eight that I wish I'd go back. I
swear to God, It's never crossed my mind. And as
the years have gone by, whatever, even if it was

(16:26):
like zero one percent might have been there. Like ah,
I wouldn't mind a college day. It doesn't even exist anymore.
So I enjoyed it. I had a lot of fun
in high school. I guess my high school days were
like one oh two oh three. I would probably be
more nostalgic about that than like listen, I had fun
in college. It was a huge part of my life.
But I don't miss it. I mean, and I honestly

(16:48):
never really have. I completely disagree with your take on
Joe Shane. It's been tough to watch the Giants the
past ten years, but most of the blame should fall
on the Mars. For any sport, consistently bad teams usually
have one thing in common, meddling owners. I believe Joe

(17:09):
wanted to follow that what Buffalo did get rid of
bad contracts. Giants had some bad ones because of Dave Gettleman.
Build a solid roster, then draft a quarterback with high upside.
After Jones had the great game in Minnesota during the playoffs,
I believe the Marara family wanted Jones to stay and
push for him to get paid. It's no secret that

(17:32):
the Maras view Jones as a young ELI. What is
a first year GM to do when the guy who
signs your paycheck pushes you to sign a player and
the coaches you and the coaches don't like. But after
watching Hard Knocks, it looks like Shane isn't letting Mara
tell him what to do, x letting Saquon walk so

(17:53):
he can invest more money into the offensive line. My
question is what is a GM supposed to do when
the owner is pushing for contracts and moves that the
GM disagrees with. Well, here's the hard part about the
Daniel Jones situation. If John Mara completely forced his hand,

(18:15):
then that is not on Joe Shane or day Ball
or any of those guys at all. But Joe Shane
has talked about in this show, which I mean, it's
not like they're editing it because we're seeing kind of
the raw, uncut all these conversations, like he still believes
in Daniel Jones. So I do think it's fair to assume.
I'm not disagreeing with you that the Marras wanted DJ

(18:37):
and we're on board with paying him, but I think
it's fair to say that the GM was too, I
really do. And watching John Mora with with Saquon, he
didn't meddle at all. He let him cook. So if

(18:59):
we assume that Mara treated Saquon, who he said is
their most popular player by far, he's like, I've been
around a lot of good players in my life, newsflash,
he has, I mean, the ELI beat fucking Tom Brady twice, right,
pretty popular after those games OC talk Strayhand, Odell Beckham.

(19:20):
You know clearly his family was around back in the
day with parcels. But to think that, I think we
have to assume he kind of has let these guys
do what they want to do. But if an owner,
if John Marad forced him to sign Saquon Barkley. Yeah,

(19:41):
the GM is, what are you gonna do If you
work for somebody and they tell you have to do something,
you either have to do it or you get fired.
It's the way the private sector works, right. You can't
really go rogue when you ain't the boss. Especially It's
one thing too, like when the boss is some of
these huge corporations like Corporate America, it's like, yeah, I'm

(20:04):
gonna go above the boss's head on this one and
I'm gonna go right to the CEO because he's middle management.
You can pull that off, especially if it works. But
I think in this scenario when that guy is the
one signing the checks and it's his team and that
it goes for this in anything in the NFL or
any business like that. Hell, if like you work for
a deli and the owner doesn't want you to make

(20:26):
a sandwich a certain way and you make the sandwich
the wrong way, like, he can fire you, So there's
nothing you can do, really, isn't That's part of the
business you're in because all these gms answer to that guy,
and ideally you hope they let you cook. And John
Maher did and as I said over and over, we've
seen running backs go like, I'm not I don't think

(20:46):
it's that crazy. But just listen to the way the
owner talked. He knows their team isn't very good. To
go to the rival Eagles who are good, and watch
how he get the guy for twenty six million dollars,
it'd be one thing. It's like, God, the fucking how
he gave him forty three million dollars guaranteed. That's pretty bold. Man,
twenty seven year old with some injuries, twenty six million

(21:09):
dollars guaranteed. Brandon Ayuk laughed at that per year, per year,
Brandon I got catches seventy four balls. Laughs at that
per season, demanding trades, not showing up per year. That's
what how he gave him total guaranteed. So to me, like,
you got to factor in all the variables because the

(21:31):
money is a huge. They gave Daniel Jones ninety two
million dollars, and like you said, if the Mars one
hundred percent forced that. I don't blame the coach or
the GM. I don't. I don't know, like most people,
the inner workings of that, but I do feel like
the front office was somewhat on board with keeping them,
and they misplayed that whole thing because even if the

(21:51):
Mars were dead set on it, here's what they should
have done, And it was obvious at the time they
should have franchised Daniel Jones and paid Sake one Barkley,
and I guess they tried sakuon Barkley would have been
an easy extension, even at like thirty eight million dollars,
because that would already factor it in last year and
now you would have been looking at probably in the
mid twenties, like what how he gave and let Daniel

(22:13):
Jones hit the open market and go, who are we
bidding against? Who in what world is giving him ninety
two million dollars? If Dak Prescott hit the open market,
someone would pay him. That's not debatable. Cousins hit the
open market twice and got a lot of money. Who
was paying Daniel Jones? Someone would have been willing to
sign him, But ninety would someone been willing to sign

(22:37):
him for fifty guaranteed? I don't know, man, I have
a hard time seeing that. Got a fugazi Friday for you.
I'll keep it short, but I think Colorado and Prime
are a Giant Fugazi. It was a fun story, but
it's gotten weird fast. I just saw Antwan Hill, the

(22:59):
number three quarter back in the twenty five class, uncommitted
and is going to Memphis. What is your take? Can't
speak to recruiting rankings, not a not super I'm a
little more dialed in in the in the summer to
the PGA Tour than I am to Rivals dot Com.

(23:21):
But I can't say this. I saw this because the
way I did this is I screenshot at all these
to make it a little easier, and I just looked
before I hopped on their schedule. Obviously, Colorado is going
to the Big Twelve, which no longer has Oklahoma and Texas,
which in theory should make it a lot easier. But
Oklahoma State's good, Kansas is now good, Kansas State is

(23:41):
always feisty. Arizona's turned that program around, even with a
new coach. I Their opening game is North Dakota State,
which I don't pretend to know North Dakota State's roster,
but I do understand and do follow football really closely.

(24:03):
They are like the Alabama or Georgia or LSU of
D one Double A. They don't win the championship every year,
but they win it a lot, and they have a
ton of NFL players, and they are really really good.
So I think it is no lock, and I mean
no lock that they win that game. I think, big

(24:24):
picture for Dion, what's going to be interesting is listen.
I don't think they're gonna be very good. I talked
to a couple people around college football over the last
three or four months. I think a lot of people
are skeptical that they can get to a bowl game,
very skeptical they can get to a bowl game. Now.
The Pac twelve was really good last year and they
started getting worked. I don't think the Big twelve is

(24:44):
as good, but all these teams are better than this.
I think a lot of people think their line sucks.
I think I saw Travis Hunter, I don't know if
it's on Twitch or something, even made fun of his
own offensive line. Travis Hunter is special player. Shador is
really really talented. What happens to Dion? Right? Like, if

(25:05):
I'm a high school football coach and my kid is
gonna be let's just say some elite college prospect and
I have him sophomore, junior, and senior year, and we
kick ass and take names. Am I a great coach?
Or did I just have this unbelievable opportunity with my kid? Now?
If I keep winning after he's long gone, then I'm

(25:26):
a badass, right. Think about the hurleies that guy's dad
won with his kids and one after his kids. He
was an excellent high school coach. What does Dion look
like after Shador? I don't know, like is he landing
these sweet quarterbacks? Only time will tell. I mean, their
best player is a guy that he's known forever, considers

(25:47):
his son, and was able to flip from Florida State.
And when I see all these people and listen, I've
always liked Deon. I root for Deon. Some of the
stuff with him and his kids talking shit to the
kids on Twitter was I don't mess with that. But
I appreciate Dion going pads in practice Dion eight. I

(26:08):
think people think he's like this kind of super progressive
dude because he's on social media. He's pretty old school,
and I appreciate that about him. But one, his team's
not good enough, and two what will look like after
he loses two guys one's literally a son and the
other guy is essentially a son who have a chance
to be you know, Travis's gonna be a top ten

(26:30):
pick and Shador he could either be a top five
pick or he could who knows, but he's gonna get
drafted relatively high, even if things go average. But this
notion that like, oh, Dion's not gonna be a Colorado
long So you're telling me, let's say Dion, let's say
this year wins five games, so they go five and seven,
doesn't make a Bowl game. So he's been at Colorado

(26:51):
two years, never won more, never gone five hundred. He's
just gonna go to the SEC. He's just some acc school.
You know, he's gonna hire him. That's not usually the
way it works now, maybe because he's so famous, but
I have a hard time seeing that. I do think
for him to get a legit job, you know, let's
just say an Auburn, you know, if Norvell would have

(27:14):
gone to Alabama, Like you do need to hire these
programs want guys to win, and I just d one
one at the HBCU. But last year like a long
way to go. And I think the way he's played
it with the portal, I don't know, I don't know.
I don't think he's a giant fugazi quite yet. But
I don't think this year is gonna be that good.

(27:36):
I really don't. I think the max is five wins,
and I don't think it's inconceivable he has one of
those four or five wins seasons. Again, he's clearly not
gonna win like one game, but if he wins eight,
remarkable coaching job, and the SEC school should hire because
his team's not nearly as good as all these other programs.
So he's about to be playing for a top level

(27:58):
program like Georgia, Alabama, Michigan Texas. Do you view the
new playoff format as an advantage or a disadvantage for
their chances to win the Natty? I could go either way,
but it seems like the twelve team playoffs for these
teams are almost guaranteed to make the bracket. Then once
they are in, talent coaching takes over. As an example,

(28:21):
last year, Georgia missed the fourteen playoff but could have
easily won it all. I think it's kind of a
double edged sword. Right, You're right about Georgia. They easily
could have won the Natty. It is definitely easier to
be in the mix now because the last ever since
the four team playoff, if you've got a couple losses

(28:42):
by the end of October, you're in major trouble. And
most times, like there hasn't been that many two lost teams,
So getting into the final four is really difficult. Look
at the NCAA tournament, it's not that hard to make
the NCAA tournament. It is very, very challenging to make
the final four. Making the final four is a massive accomplishment,

(29:02):
right because winning four games in the tournament is hard.
But let's face it, sixty four really sixty eight teams,
it's not very difficult to get in the dance and now,
like you said, the teams you listed, I would say
the top seven eight programs, it's a major disappointment if
they ain't dancing, and that'd be Georgia, that'd be Ohio State,
that would have been Michigan with Jim Harbaugh. Want to

(29:25):
see how this guy is as a full time head
coach now Texas, the way they're recruiting LSU with Brian Kelly,
I think USC Oregon are going to be under that umbrella.
Florida State, Clemson like anything less than a playoff Berth
is a disaster, but it's football, man, And this is
what makes the sport so much like the NCAA tournament.

(29:48):
You have one bad game, you have one bad half
for your quarter quarterback throws a pick six and fumbles,
and all of a sudden, you're like, holy shit, it's
twenty eight to seven late in the third quarter, like
we're the three seed, they're the nine seed. We're in trouble.
And that's the thing with the what makes this sport

(30:08):
so unique. It's one game. It's sixty minutes, and anything
can happen. So it's college sixty minutes. Pretty sure I'm
blanket some remote, but yeah, I think it's gonna be
difficult to win the national championship. I think this if
you got to the final four before, you had a
pretty good idea, like George's got a pretty good chance,

(30:30):
Michigan's got a pretty good chance. Now you get a
buy if you're one of those top seeds. So there's
a big difference of getting the buy and having to
play that first weekend. But I have to go back
and look, you get home games now, which is an
advantage before the final four. So I would say it's
more challenging anytime in football. The more games you have

(30:51):
to play, the harder it is. I mean, I think
it's that's pretty simple.

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Speaker 1 (31:51):
Love your podcast, lit'st do it while I Run. If
all thirty two teams were empty and you had one
season to compete for Super Bowl and you could any
player in NFL history in their prime. Who's the first pick,
who's the first five or ten picks? How many picks
would there be before a non quarterback like LT is taken.

(32:14):
Depends what rules we're playing in. If we're playing in
seventies eighties rules, you could take LT in the top ten.
You could take a Reggie White, you know whoever, me
and Joe Green, the great players on defense of all time. Hell,
you could take Walter Payton or Barry Sanders or something.
If we're playing today's rules, the modern game, I think

(32:38):
it's you know, Brady Peyton, Farv Marino, Elway. This isn't
in order, right, Montana, Steve Young Rogers. I might already
said him, Mahomes, Josh Allen, I think quarterbacks are flying.
I think if you go like nineteen eighty seven rules,
I'd take LT. I think he'd be in the mix.

(32:59):
You know, Aaron Donald, I think these guys would get
drafted really really high. But that's a huge caveat to
the whole thing. You could argue just if you know
what you're doing as a team builder, and it's picked
seven and Dan Marino's on the board or Lway, how
do you not pick them. I understand the NFL continues

(33:20):
to have more games overseas each year to grow the
company and the game. What do you think about the
NFL playing a few neutral site games here in the
US and potential future expansion cities like San Antonio, Saint
Louis in Oklahoma City. I don't think Oklahoma City's ever
getting an NFL team, maybe potentially getting one game a

(33:45):
year in Hawaii to bring the NFL back to the Islands.
Keep crushing it. I think the international games in theory
have a big picture business element to it, right, So,
whether you agree or disagree, they feel there's a value

(34:06):
of playing in Germany, of playing at Wembley of I
don't quite see the value. But playing in Brazil. I
understand Mexico City, it's one of the biggest cities in
the world. They used to play in Japan. I think
preseason games. If you're gonna play in America and I'm
an owner of a team, there is no way on

(34:27):
God's green Earth, I'm not playing in my football stadium.
It's not happening international. It's out of my control. I'm
a league partner, but like, why do I care? I'm
not playing a game in Oklahoma City. If I'm the
Giants or I'm the Rams or the Niners, under it's
a non starter. So the league office has juice, but

(34:50):
ultimately the owners are in charge, and it just put
yourself in their shoes. Would never do it. You could
argue do something like, if you're Cleveland, the Browns or
the Lions, why wouldn't you play a game? This would
be pretty cool, like at the Shoe Or if you're

(35:10):
the Lions at the University of Michigan, I could see
doing something like that. If you're New Orleans, play a
night game at LSU on Sunday night, right, if you're
one of the Florida teams at Florida State or Florida,
like I could. I doubt that would ever happen, but
like that's less crazy. The Rams, remember they played a

(35:33):
game at the Rose Bowl against the Chiefs, which is
pretty cool. That's that's conceivable. But going outside of your
market to these random cities that aren't getting a team,
they're just not. And listen, I don't feel bad for
Saint Louis. They stole the Rams. The Rams were LA's team.
You stole them and you got a jacked. Right. If

(35:57):
you end up marrying someone who had cheated on their
significant other and then ten years later they cheat on
you like kind of on you, I have little remorse.
I have. I have more understanding when it comes to
the Raiders situation. Oakland's team, even though they left to

(36:18):
LA they came back to Oakland and then they went
to Vegas. Like, I get their animosity toward the league
and the whole situation. I don't the zero zero feelings
towards Saint Louis. Sorry, give it to me straight. Niners
back in the Super Bowl this season. Well, they're clearly
one of the best teams in the league. The AUX

(36:38):
situation is kind of their only problem. I guess Ricky
Piersoll I haven't seen the update, but was somehow injured
not training, which is never ideal. But overall, let's look
at their competition. Who is the I would say the
Eagles and the Lions have the best rosters beside the

(37:00):
Niners in the NFC, and both teams should be playoff teams,
and the Niners have played them both the last couple
of years. They played the Lions in the NFC Championship.
They played the Eagles two years ago when when Perdy
got hurt. They played the Eagles last year in the
regular season, developing a little rivalry there. Cowboys feels like
it's gonna take a step back in the Niners fucking

(37:20):
own Dallas. Uh. I think the Packers are a team
to keep an eye on. They easily could have beat
the Niners in the playoffs. So I would say in
the Rams, while the Niners have mainly owned them, that
Rams team, the way they were playing, that feels kind
of like the crew that could give the Niners a
run for their money. And this is back to the

(37:40):
comment about the college football playoffs. Football man like Kentucky
or Virginia or Purdue, Like sometimes you just get knocked
off in the first round. Last year, I thought the
Cowboys are pretty good. Then the Packers beat the crap
out of them. I almost put at the time that
would have been an healthy amount of money when the

(38:01):
playoffs started on the Packers to win the Super Bowl. Like,
I just think they're the best team in the league.
I think this is one Rogers gets number two and
then Tom Brady beat him in the NFC Championship game.
Now you could argue, did he get too conservative? In
that game. Did Lafleur screw up when he kicked the
field goal? Obviously we can argue till we're blue in
the face, But that type stuff, historically, that's what happens
in football. You know, that's that's how it works. So

(38:25):
I would say there's no lock to be in the
super Bowl, but I know anything less than that's going
to be a disappointment into that. They have no business
not winning. I don't know, twelve plus games, and if
you win twelve plus games, you put yourself in position
out the number one seed, which is a huge advantage.
Why do major talk show shows never talk about my Seahawks?

(38:47):
Is it because we're tucked in the Northwest or what?
And what do you think about the playoff chances with
the new staff? Well, I think you're not quite as
sexy as you once were. Remember, you guys got talked
about a lot when Russell was on the team. It
was a major conversation point for talk shows, for podcasts,

(39:11):
Russell Wilson was discussed a lot why he was a superstar.
And when you have a superstar quarterback and your teams
in the playoffs every year, New Slash you get talked
about but Gino Smith, like, I can't open shows with
Gino Smith. Now, Mike McDonald your new coach, elite defensive coordinator,
I mean he was a badass. Ryan Grubb, your new

(39:36):
offensive coordinator, has been incredible in college, never coach in
the league. So I think there's some question marks. Do
you have a talented team. I don't think it's inconceivable
you're in the wild card mix. I don't think I'm
gonna pick you, but it's not because I don't respect it.
You have one of the best gms in the league.
Your fan base is awesome, But I think star quarterbacks

(39:58):
moved the needle. It's just, really it's kind of that simple,
and when you had one, you got to discussed a lot.
Question for the golf mail bag. I'll answer Ray here.
Doesn't the PGA's non compete rule actually empower live to
steal golfers? It seems to me if the PGA would
allow live golfers to compete on the tour, they would

(40:20):
take away the exclusivity of live to many of the
top players. Sure, we might not see Bryson twenty five
times a year on the tour, but we might see
him ten to twelve instead now it's just the Majors
live would be even more relevant than it already is.
What are your thoughts, Dan in Lakeville, Minnesota. Well, eventually
this whole thing's gonna come together. But I think the

(40:42):
huge mistake the PGA Tour made and j Monahan the commissioner,
If this was the NFL or this was basketball and
he had made a decision like he made to ban them,
I think he would have been removed. But because it's
golf and it's just a different world, he somehow still survived.

(41:03):
And I think that was a catastrophic decision. It really was,
and like you said, it led to a lot of
these guys going. But now it's too late. I mean
they're gonna be whether they merge next year, in the
next two years, it's already kind of over. But yeah,
that was a I would say any leader in any business,

(41:23):
any person that's a decision maker in any role in
a company, you get tasked with some decisions that are
bigger than others. And when you screw up on little
decisions whatever, like if I pick a topic that doesn't
really work, or a segment that a lot of you
guys don't like, whatever I do five of these a week.
But if I made a decision to, you know, put

(41:47):
this behind a paywall, and it backfired, like it could
derail the show, right, And that would be a huge
decision because it's the lifeblood of my business. You people listening,
and and I think that he made a decision on
the lifeblood of his business, which is the players and
the star power of six seven guys, that that defected

(42:11):
and it backfired tremendously. I've been a diehard fan since
the seventies Super Bowl. This is gonna be pretty embarrassing,
but I'm not quite up with my Roman numerals. I
guess it could be four was my first memory? Is

(42:31):
the V five? Maybe that's nine? Either four or nine.
I listen or watch NFL content unless it's outright poor.
I used to watch shows like Get Up and First
Take every morning. I'm retired, but I can barely watch
Get Up and I'm completely done with First Take. Why

(42:51):
is twenty five percent of Get Up and fifty percent
of First Take focused on a team that hasn't made
the conference finals? I think he means championship, but in
thirty plus years, while the team that has been to
six straight conference championships, and as the most exciting player
in the history, barely gets any coverage, not to mention
the other thirty teams. Uh, thirty two. Maybe he's got

(43:16):
mixed in basketball and football here, but I think he's
talking about the Cowboys. I get the Dallas has the
largest fan base, but seriously, do the suits not see this?
What am I missing? This business because of the technology
is not that complicated. So when you do a segment
on TV, on podcasts, on YouTube, the metrics you get

(43:41):
it's the power of all these streaming services when they
run a series. It's when they run live broadcasts. The
information that they could get is stuff. When I worked
in radio, the way they equated terrestrial radio, the way
they just were able to figure out the ratings were
by like fifteen to twenty meters. When I worked in

(44:03):
the Bay Area in the San Francisco market. I don't
know how many people are in the general market, but
it's a top five to six market in America, and
it's based on May. Maybe it's a little more in that.
Maybe it's like thirty or thirty five just meters in
a car and when they listen to your station, you
get credit. It was one of the biggest fugazis in

(44:25):
the history of the world. I remember when I got
out of it, I'm like, they're fucked because this is
an all time fugazi that is complete BS. And when
I started my first podcast, I remember talking to some
of these advertisers. I'm like, they are ripping you off,
like this this is a joke. Now. Part of it

(44:45):
is to be associated. You know, if a radio station
has the Yankees or the San Fransco Giants or the
forty nine ers, I get it, but they're rating. They
have no clue and I mean no clue who's listening. Well,
all this stuff now we know exactly who's listening for
every second, every minute, every day, and where you're listening

(45:08):
the city, I mean the zip code probably if we
wanted to dive deep the neighborhood. And they know when
they talk cowboys, it not only works, it really works.
As you know, I don't talk that much. I don't
do this, but I'm not doing the show like they are.
If you're on television, like an extra one hundred thousand people,

(45:30):
when it comes to advertising, is pretty important. I mean
it's important in this show, it's important to any show.
But I think it's just based on the metrics. I
don't think it's that complicated. The reason they talk to Lakers,
the reason they talk to Yankees, the reason they talk
to cowboys is not because all these people give a
fuck that much. They truly don't. It's because you have

(45:50):
to for business, and ultimately you're in the business of
getting the most people to watch. And I've always taken
kind of the approach, And maybe this is why I
guess my care is a little slower bleed than trying
to just talk cowboys every day. Is I want to like,
I'm just doing what I like to do now. Also,
I'm not, but I'm not a little engine that could guy, Like,
I'm not going to talk about things that bore me.

(46:14):
And sometimes little stuff kind of bores me. And maybe
some of you get mad at and talking about some
of your markets. But I'm a big market star guy.
But I'm with you the cowboys, Like, I'm not opening
up every day talking about McCarthy and Dak But I
get why people do. Like I understand why the Lakers
get talked about all the time. They have the biggest
fan base by far, and when they're on TV, the

(46:34):
most people Watch's why they talked about the Warriors like
the Lakers over the last ten years, because there have
been only been two teams in the NBA the truly
rate old school wise Steph Curry and Lebron James and
the Lakers. You throw on the Celtics. It ain't the
same ratings down and they got superstars. So this formula
is pretty basic most people that watch. That's what you

(46:56):
should do, especially on television. It's why Colin's television show
or his podcast based on The Herd sounds a lot
different than when me and him talk. It's just a
different medium and the way they equate things more important
to do it a certain way. Cowboy fan from South
Africa always wanted to go there. I think I have

(47:17):
to think I'm gonna go there one time for sure. Actually,
my actually my grandparents, well before I was born, had
gone on a safari I think in like the seventies
and one of the people in their safari party got
a little too close to a body of water and

(47:38):
that was all she wrote because the crocodile got that person.
I don't know if it was a guy or girl,
and it was an older person and they went by bye.
Into that crocodile's belly. Jerry may have his critics, but
the Cowboys had a net prophet a five hundred and
fifty mil last year. For those of you non business majors,
net profit means the money after expenses are paid pretty good.

(48:04):
The closest team was three hundred million. They were three
hundred million more than the closest team. They're too big
to say a f them picks like the Rams and
potentially suck for years. All I'm trying to say is
they're making way more money now sucking than they did
hosting Lobardes. From a business standpoint, why risk it? Well,

(48:27):
they don't suck. They don't suck at all. Three straight
years of twelve wins in a row. How many teams
would have signed up for that? Eighty percent the league?
Now this playoff they've sucked in the playoffs, but they
have not sucked. They've been really good. They've won the
division two years too out of three years, so they've
been good. And if you're good in the regular season,
meaning you're making the playoffs, that's important because, like you said,

(48:51):
for your bottom line. Back to the last question, the
Cowboys are the biggest thing in America in terms of sports.
They're bigger than the Yankees. They're bigger than the Lakers
because the NFL have the biggest sport in America bio
pretty wide margin, and they are the biggest brand. Yea,
they just have the most fans. I mean, they just do. Listen,

(49:14):
the Packers and the Steelers are massive brands and they're
in smaller markets. Why because they were good fifty years ago.
So when you develop generations of fans, like that's pretty important.
Like why are the forty nine ers such a big
brand for the NFL? Well, they started. The first time
they were really good was like nineteen eighty one. It's
twenty twenty four, so they had twenty years of being good.

(49:37):
In the last fifteen years they've been good a lot.
So that's generation after generation. That's important. But I do
think Jerry's trying and like, ultimately his downfall has just
been as quarterback sucked in the playoffs period, point blank industry.
As an Eagles fan, I obviously would probably rate Jalen
Hurts higher than the average fan, probably around five behind Mahomes,

(50:01):
Alan Jackson, and Burrow. Why do you think other people,
maybe such as yourself, would rank him as one of
the best quarterbacks, wouldn't rank him as one of the
best quarterbacks in the league. And the Super Bowl he
played the second best of all the quarterbacks behind Nick
Foles and played better than Mahomes in it. He just
beat Josh Allen in a crazy overtime game where Jalen

(50:23):
absolutely carried the Eagles to that victory and was an
MVP favorite for the majority of the past two seasons. Well,
he wasn't the MVP favorite last year. But I hear
what you're saying. I think part of it is he
was really good two years ago. He lost his offensive coordinator,
and you watched him last year and he didn't feel
like the same guy. Obviously turned the ball over a

(50:44):
bunch toward the end of the season. It wasn't obviously
all his fault. The defense. The secondary was looked like
me and you out there. I think most people consider
him a top ten quarterback, and at the end of
the day, depending on how you've played late lee, if
you're a top ten, guys the difference of nine and six.
But if you gave me, like, let's just do some

(51:07):
with this, would the Rams trade him straight up for
Jalen Hurts. No. Now, the Eagles wouldn't do that deal either,
because Jalen's way older forty nine ers. Would Kyle trade
him for Rock Perty, No, Eagles would say no as
well the Lions. You could argue Jalen Hurts a better
player than Jared Goff, but I don't think the Lions
do that deal. So, like when you start talking about

(51:28):
those other guys, like those other guys are in a
different category because when you start talking those trades like yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
I think is a big year for Jalen. It is
good player, high character guy, works his ass off. There
have been some stories out there that he's not vocal enough,
but I think it's a big year for him. I
really do, because part of being a great player is

(51:49):
doing it over and over and over. Say what you
want about Cousins and Dak, they have been doing it
for a while, consistently flawed, never gonna be a top
five guy, but like every year, kind of know what
you're getting. Okay, last question, you've discussed that link now
the important of ownership in the league, and I agree.
I'm a Bronco fan and I learned that the Walton

(52:10):
Penner ownership is by far the richest in the NFL
seventy seven billion dollars. You know what's funny, as I
whenever I go in the sauna, I try to listen
to a book on tape, but it's not really on
tape because on an iPhone and I bought made in America.

(52:33):
The Sam Walton story, it is crazy like the Walmart
I know. And how big and dominant is his story
back in the fifties and sixties, probably more of the
sixties and seventies of building up that company. If you
like business and you like stories from scratch, it's a

(52:53):
fascinating listen. He has a net worth of three times
that of the number two family. The Hunts are were
twenty five. Greg Penner, the team's CEO and husband of
Ann Walton, Rob's daughter, has already spent five hundred million
of their own money on facility upgrades. He was walking

(53:16):
on the field in twenty two with one game left
and thought the turf looked rough, so he spent four
hundred k out of his own pocket that the grass
replaced for the last home game. When we've been eliminated
from the playoffs since Week five twenty two, is a
rough year for you guys. My question is this, how much,

(53:36):
if at all, does the extreme wealth matter? More specifically,
how can this capital be deployed knowing that his wealth
is largely compromised of highly liquid Walmart stock to make
the team better on the field. Well, it's weird, right
because the salary cap. Everyone has to follow the same rules.

(53:58):
The NFL is a hard cap, so that number is
two hundred. If it's too forty, if it's two to fifty,
this isn't the NBA. You can't go above it and
pay a luxury text because if you could, they would
benefit a lot. So you're hard capped. Where it does
work in the next couple of years when they kind
of siphon off that Russell contract on their books. If

(54:19):
we're both offering a player in free agency, let's say
fifty million dollars and Sam Walton or not Sam Walton,
but the the Walton Penner Group goes, we'll give you
fifty million guarantees, five year deal for one hundred million dollars.
I'm just picking even numbers, So five years, one hundred
million dollars, fifty guaranteed, but that guaranteed, I'm gonna give

(54:43):
it to you all an assigning bonus. Next week, I
will wire fifty million dollars into your account, where the
other team was like, we're gonna your bonus was going
to be twenty two million dollars, So I will double
the bonus because I got more cash on hand. That's
really where it benefits. Ultimately, facilities in the NFL, no
one cares because I'm getting paid to play. So if

(55:04):
you got the best facilities in the league and some
other team offers me five more million dollars a year,
I don't care. It does not matter. You think Travis
Kelce or Patrick Mahomes give a shit about the stools
or the chairs in the locker room the same college
like facilities are a little overrated, though I give teams

(55:24):
credit for investing in it. Why would you not is
your business. These are your players. But I think it's
more the structure of the contracts and the cash on hand.
Paying guys is where you can really separate and the
signing bonuses and coaches. They want to Sean Payton, the

(55:45):
gave him ninety million dollars. They want other coaches. You know,
I saw Jim Leonard is now prominent defensive coordinator or
defensive staff member. He probably ain't making two hunder grant.
So it's like Jim's like, I don't know, if I
really want to coach, We'll give you a three year
contract at one point five million dollars a year. Hell,

(56:06):
we'll pay you like a defensive coordinator three years, three
million dollars a year. Here's a nine million dollar contract.
So to me, it's coaches and contracts with players, specifically
free agents, being able to land them and keep guys right.
But ultimately the cap and the draft capital, everyone's on
the same playing field. That's what makes the NFL cool.

(56:26):
It's not like the difference of the Yankees and the
Oakland A's right or Campa Bay Race. It's everyone has
the same amount of money in terms of to abide
bye with the players because of the contract media deals
from the league. But the coaching staff is huge, or
training staff or some of the you know kind of

(56:49):
the doctors associated with your team. That that type stuff
is really big. Appreciate everyone reaching out. Like I said
at John Middlecoff Instagram, fire into those dms. Always open,
take your questions whenever, Uh, We're gonna really get into
it moving forward and the season can't wait have a
great weekend. Last show of the week, The Volume