John dives into the latest 49ers hold out news and this time it's with Trent Williams as he waits for a new contract. How will the Trent situation affect Aiyuk's contract situation and the importance of getting them done quickly. Next, John talks about the latest with the Cowboys and Dak Prescott and why they haven't offered him a new deal, is this the beginning of the end for Russell Wilson as he's already missing time with a calf injury, and the reason as to why players ultimately hold out or hold in when waiting for a new contract.
Later, John answers your questions in this episode's mailbag segment.
10:04 - Trent Williams is the latest 49ers hold out
24:51 - Russell Wilson is out
27:23 - The latest with Michael Penix
30:30 - Why players hold out
42:10 - Mailbag
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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Speaker 1 (02:13):
What is going on? Everybody? John Middlecock three and Out podcast.
I don't know why I'm talking like that, but hopefully
everyone is doing well. Just fired down from Lake Tahoe
to my mom's house. You know what I said, got
some takes. I want to talk a little football, so
let's fire up the old computer. So got it out
(02:33):
of the bag and now here I am talking and
wanted to dive into a lot because there's a lot
going on. We got some holdouts, Trent Williams, we got
Ceedee Lamb, some hold ends which kind of looks like
Jamar Chase Kirk Cousins cleared, Russell Wilson, hurt Fields getting
first team reps. We got a lot going on. So
(02:54):
football is more than kicking off the videos. If you
go to YouTube or Instagram or Twitter or TikTok, just
a lot happening on the football field. I watch a
good miked up today with old Jim Harbaugh, and he's
just a beauty. So it's good to have Jim Harbaugh
back in the National Football League. So we'll talk a
(03:15):
little football. It's Fugazi Friday, so I wanted to tell
a little story not quite a Fugazi, but it was
quite the experience last week. We'll dive into a little later.
So other than that, we'll also do a little mail
bag at John Middlecoff is the Instagram and next week
I'll be back in Arizona and we'll just be full
(03:35):
speed ahead with daily coverage, given takes, following what's going on,
given my thoughts on it. So I think me and
Colin are doing a podcast on Sunday night, so that'll
be for Monday, and then well the game plan will
just be a full week of podcasts basically Tuesday through Friday,
and then maybe it's just stuff happens over this month.
(03:58):
We'll also have stuff on YouTube tube as well, so
make sure you subscribe to that YouTube channel obviously, if
you subscribe to if you haven't, the three and outfeed,
if you listen on Collins feed, make sure you subscribe
to three and out feed so you never miss anything.
And let's just enjoy it because football is back in
the air, Spirits are high, and we're not too far
(04:19):
away from pads popping all around the league. I think
the Texans, they were the first team to they might
even be in pads today. They definitely will be by
this weekend, but I would imagine every team will be
in pads by the twenty fifth, twenty eighth, twenty ninth,
because that's when, like, let's face it, it's fun. It's
cool to watch Patrick Mahomes or Justin Herbert or one
(04:40):
of these guys do one of their like fifty yard bombs.
But it's not football because you can't run the ball right,
So the the lineman they just get nothing out of it.
Not nothing out of it, but it's just it's not
the same. And the evaluation from the front office it
can't really start till the pads happen. And then the
one thing cool, I guess, not for necessarily us because
(05:02):
they're not broadcasts, but in terms of just evaluating your
team as all these joint practices and obviously those get rowdy,
so god, it'd be sweet if the NFL did just
a joint practice day, if there was like seven or
eight going on and just kind of did like a
red zone version of that. That'd be badass. But actually
(05:23):
I would never say never, because we know the NFL
loves their money and we know the NFL loves their content.
So I watched the last episode of The Giants Hard Knocks.
I can be critical of Joe Shane and the situation.
I think it was a fantastic I don't know if
it's over yet, but they just finished the draft and drafted. Obviously,
(05:45):
Malik Neighbors, that's a leak content. The NFL has never
ever done anything like that. Even the stuff the teams
do right, the Jets do it, the Colts, I mean
most teams do it now doesn't sniff The access we
got that was fantastic. So props to the Giants because
clearly they have some editorial control for just kind of
(06:08):
letting it hang out there. That's as good of a
basically thirty minutes so we got two hours worth of
content of off season football, just stuff I've ever seen.
I mean, it doesn't get any better than that if
you haven't watched it, because I if you just saw
it like off season Giants hard Knocks, probably gonna be
stupid would have been my answer or my statement. I
(06:31):
don't know a month whenever before it started. I promise
you it's an in if you like football. All four
episodes were really good. They all have stuff that you're like, well,
I can't believe they're showing this, Especially with the GM.
We never ever get that type access. The emotion, you
could feel a stress. It was just I've been I've
(06:54):
had given takes on it before I know Michae Lombardi's
given a lot of takes on his podcast. I understand
it and more than fair. But the access to even
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(07:14):
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(07:58):
dollars off download the game time today, last minute tickets,
lowest prices guarantee. I did know a podcast yesterday and
news broke that the best left tackle in the NFL
is officially holding out. Now. I had to take a
couple of days ago in regards to another player they
(08:19):
have who's holding in that, I thought it was the
right move that Brandon Ayuk. They've had a very contentious
off season. He's been very emotional. Feels like he's requested
seven trades, posted eighty million things on social media and
has been all over the map, and John and Kyleer
are like, yeah, see, you can't, buddy. We got an
offer on the table and that's still materializing. There was
(08:41):
just a video from my guy Matt Barrows of like
him walking into John Lynch's office I think after practice,
So clearly they're trying to get it done well. Today.
Probably a little bit of an issue for Brandon Ayuk
that he's no longer the priority because Trent Williams is
one of those rare guys. The is objectively agreed upon
(09:03):
from the analytical community, from the itest fan community, from
the scouting community, from the coaching community, and most importantly,
the other players his peers best left tackle in the
game non quarterback, easily one of the best players in
the game. And it's not like he's in the prime
of his career. He's like thirty five years old. He
wants more money. In my initial take, don't blame him
(09:26):
at all. Had the same take earlier this offseason when
Christian McCaffrey said the same thing, under no circumstances can
I play if I'm Trent Williams and I'm the fifth
highest paid left tackle, And honestly, these left tackle numbers
per year feel a little off because who's more important?
If the forty nine ers this year had to choose
one player, Brandon Ayuk or Trent Williams, and listen, this
(09:48):
is not a criticism of Brandon Auk. He's an awesome player,
He's a winning player. He deserves to be paid a
lot of money. I can promise you this. John Lynch
and Kyle Shanahan wouldn't even hesitate. It would be Trent
Trent Williams. Now, ultimately they don't have to make that decision.
They get to keep them both. But what happened with
Christian McCaffrey, It's like well, I no longer have guaranteed money.
You didn't sign me to this contract. I'm scheduled to
(10:11):
make like eleven million dollars. I'm sorry, that's laughable. And
they bumped him up and it's like eighteen nineteen million
dollars this year, rightfully, so good move. If I'm Trent Williams,
won this contract that I'm currently playing on, is what
I got. The forty nine Ers gave him this contract
because he had hit free agency several years ago, and
(10:31):
it actually came down to a bidding between Andy Reid
and the Chiefs and the forty nine Ers and the
forty nine ers. I mean, they had no choice. They
had to give him a large amount of money I
think at the time was sixty million dollars guaranteed, which
seems like peanuts now twenty a year. Which, again, if
I'm Trent Williams and I get like, comp's work for
(10:53):
ninety percent of players like this guy got this, this
is what you get. He's a little better, you're a
little worse. You're you're a little better, he's a little worse.
Is all based on that there are certain players in
this league, a guy like Trent Williams where I go.
I don't really give a shit. If you really want
me to play this year, I have no guaranteed money,
Like this is my number, maybe it's twenty eight million dollars,
So I'm gonna need an eight million dollar race Like
(11:16):
that's got to happen. Now. I went to years of
practices with Trent Williams involved. Training camp for him isn't
exactly the Junction boys. This isn't exactly nineteen fifty, nineteen
sixty role tied Alabama Bear Bryant. Listen, he's one of
those guys who probably could play an NFL game three
hundred and sixty five days a year. So training camp
(11:38):
for him, I'm not saying it's not necessary. Of course,
it's necessary for any player. But he ain't repping every
single practice. Goot. He gets a lot of days off,
he gets a lot of plays off. They treat him
like they should. One of the most valuable assets, who's
an older player who they need. And the only thing
when it comes to Trent Williams is like week one,
(12:01):
he's on my left tackle and we want him healthy.
But listen, when you're at his level, you got leverage
because you need me more than I need you. I'm
super rich. I've made a boatload of money. Now I'm
a great player. I like playing football, and I'm playing
on playing football, hopefully for the niner sake the next
couple of years, because they have zero answer at that position.
(12:22):
And it's not like they're gonna be flush with cash
because they're paying all these other guys to go sign
a left tackle. And let's face it, left tackles never
hit the open market. Who are any good? It was
very rare that Trent Williams was even in that position,
But I don't blame him. And if I was him,
I'd ask for a massive race and they go, what
about all these I don't Christian Darisow, if I was
(12:43):
Trent Williams, I'd be like, Who's that? What? I compare
myself to Jonathan Ogden, to a Walter Jones, Like that's
the way I'm discussed, not like the hot young commodity
in the NFL, Like this is going to be a complicated.
This is part of what makes this job so difficult.
(13:04):
It's why I've said forever I give John Lynch a
lot of credit for doing this. Just like when Steve
Kerr signed up, he was already super rich, he was
already super successful. He had a bunch of rings, and
he's like, you know what I want to coach. Now
you can say it was a great situation, it is
still a lot of added stress that is not there
(13:25):
if you're not doing it. And John Lynch same thing.
Already a champion. Now he's in the Hall of Fame.
He had a great job at Fox, was making seven figures,
and he's like, you know what I want to do.
Deal with Brandon Ayuk's agent when I'm on vacation. You
know what I want to do? Show up to training
camp and have to deal with my star future Hall
(13:47):
of Fame left tackle who needs a massive raise, and
I have to balance all the books and we already
have a high praise. Like I'm sorry, most human beings
would not want to do that. But he's just one
of those guys that likes his feet in the fire.
He likes the action. You know, the juice is the squeeze, right.
So I just think that this team, like all these guys,
(14:09):
high level winning players, most people are gonna pick this team.
If you're not picking them to be in the super Bowl,
to be right there in the mix. You know, in
the final four or final two in the NFC. But
this type stuff you deal with year after year. You
guys that want money, right, It's like, what did how
wee have happened this offseason? Like Hasan Reddick's like I
want to raise now I'm not comparing Asano Reddick to
(14:30):
Trent Williams. It was like, we don't want that headache,
see you. Joe Douglas is like, yeah, I'll take that headache.
And I don't even plan to pay him. So it's
just training camp. Man. I always thought, like the season,
you know, I've never been as stressed out. Now I'm
a high anxiety guy to begin with, Like just my blood,
you know, runs hot. I would say, like most people
(14:53):
or else you die. But you know what I mean,
I run hot. That stress of training camp, of guys
getting in, of working out guys, of guys not living
up to the hype, of people being angry players just
it's it's a stressful time there is. You have to
monitor the league like crazy because guys are constantly getting cut,
(15:13):
Like once the season starts. The structure of the season
is very mapped out. Obviously, you might play on a
Thursday or Sunday night or Monday, but like every week's
kind of the same and if you have one injury,
you just work out one position. It's kind of a
fire drill during training camp. And let's face it, the
forty nine ers got a lot going on. I mean,
the Cowboys got a lot going on, but they always
(15:35):
got a lot going on. And in fairness, like Dallas
is choosing not to extend Dak Prescott right now, the
forty nine Ers want Trent Williams to be happy. They
want Brandon Ayuk to be happy. I wonder if the
Cowboys are like, yeah, let's just see how Dak responds.
Let's see if he can answer the bell, because he
has in the last three years. And I think when
you look at the Cowboys, Ceedee Lamb, you know, let's
(15:57):
face it, Ceedee Lamb does not view himself in Brandon
Ayuk's category, right, He just does not. He views himself
with Justin Jefferson. Now, whether that's correct or not, we're
talking an astronomical amount of money that he, I'm sure
is seeking. And this gets pretty complicated. And I started
thinking today actually, when I was driving home from Tahoe,
(16:18):
maybe the Cowboys plan is this we go all in. Obviously,
we're gonna have to pay Ceedee Lamb and Micah Parsons
a ton of cash, and that is a huge part
of our core moving forward, and we'll figure out the quarterback.
And then I thought, isn't that kind of what the
Raiders are doing right now? They got Max Crosby, who's
a star, they got DeVante Adams who's like a Hall
(16:39):
of Famer, and they have no quarterback, and no one
really takes them that seriously. Right, They have really good
players at a bunch of different positions. But I don't
think you'll meet a soul who's not a Raider fan
who would pick them to make the playoffs, because how
could you They don't have a quarterback. And I just
this is the hard part about the Dallas situation. And
(17:00):
this is why when you get the Dak Prescott's you
saw it forever in Minnesota with Kirk Cousins, you just
kind of keep riding it out cause you are terrified
to ever be in a position warse like, guy, we
got some sweet All Pro impact players. It's like, oh,
who's your quarterback? You're like, ain't O'Connell Gardner Minshew, You're like, uh,
you're not winning shit. That's kind of the way it goes.
(17:22):
And I could see if you were Dallas because it's
easy and listen, I've said it, like just move on,
let him hit free agency. It's easy to say that.
And he's got flaws clearly in January, but he's still
better than most And what would they do, Like it's like,
what's their answer going to be? Trey Lance? Kyle Shanahan
couldn't get rid of him quick enough. Kyle Shanahan bailed
(17:42):
on Trey Lance like eighteen months ago, so that's not
an option. Yeah, and I know they're gonna play him
a bunch this preseason, but he's just not that good.
It's just just a fact of life. So to me,
when you look at the Cowboys, you go feels like
they're kind of stuck and it could be one of
those positions if they just win a playoff games like oh,
(18:02):
Dak threw multiple interceptions in the second round, Say okay,
let him hit free agency, and then what are you doing?
Because there aren't really any options ever. And this is
where Ceedee Lamb kind of has them by the balls,
like he's gonna get a ton of money it's like
Michah Parsons, same thing, gonna get a ton of money,
like a ton of money. It's like, well, Dak Prescott
(18:23):
because of the position he plays. Even if we all
agree that he's not Josh Allen, he's not Mahomes obviously
not Lamar still is gonna command what two hundred and
ten million dollars guaranteed. So the three of those guys
would have sent it'd be like an NBA team. He'd
be like, Yeah, we got three or four guys and
a bunch of other minimum players and draft PLT picks.
(18:44):
That's kind of what the Cowboys would have to do
because of the positions those guys play. It's one thing
I've always said about the Niners. They've gotten very lucky
that two of their best players are, you know, over
the last four years that are on huge contracts, are
linebacker and a tight end. And those guys value like
doesn't exceed fifteen million dollars a year, where if Fred
(19:06):
Warner had been a corner or a wide receiver or
the right tackle, their books would look a lot different.
And George Kittle, who will see I mean last year
he was clearly banged up. They show in receiver, Like,
the difference of him playing tight end and wide receiver
is probably the difference of seven eight million dollars a
(19:29):
year minimum. So that's not the case with the Cowboys.
Their best players are pass rusher, wide receiver. We get debated,
but I mean, obviously Dak is one of their best
players quarterback. It's like, gee, how do we do this?
And it becomes a problem, and it becomes a problem
fast financially, Now, no one you can be like I
(19:51):
always hear media members say this like, I'm not gonna
cry for owners. It's not even about that. It's like
there's a salary cap. You gotta build your team and
that can be very complicated.
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Speaker 1 (20:48):
Today, let's hit on a couple other things. Russell Wilson
missed practice as of Thursday recording this. I think they
said with that little calf strain. I'm not acting like
I'm no doctor. I don't know. I'm not acting like
he's out for the season or anything. But I kind
(21:08):
of assume like this is gonna be a player that
my expectations are little to none, and anyone that argues,
they're like, look, get a statellyed last year. It's like, guys,
we all sat on the couch over the course of
the first couple months and watched that team play, and
we've all seen Russell Wilson in his heyday and it
doesn't even resemble the same player. Now, I don't I've
(21:31):
said it over and over. Totally understand why the Steelers
would want him for I don't know a million dollars.
I would have done that too, but I've said consistently
just because, like many people, I follow the NFL very closely.
I've watched this league for a long time. We have
seen situations, like most situations in football, copy themselves over
(21:56):
and over, like I the Patriots, I can see that
thing coming from a mile. Jacoby Brissett is our starter.
Jacoby Brissett is gonna play, and he is going to
mentor our young quarterback. What happens week seven when they're
two and five and lifeless and the crowd's booing and
Robert Krafts like just getting shitited on in the media,
(22:17):
I'll tell you Drake may will start. We've seen that
exact scenario take place in my adult life, I don't
know twenty plus times. So with Russell Wilson, let's face it,
he's not the same player. And I don't know if
Justin Field is any good. He definitely hasn't been in
terms of a passer. But part of why you pay
(22:38):
coaches a lot of money is to see if you
can get the best out of a guy. And we
know what Russell is a diminishing asset, a guy that
you can't consistently win with. Because that's been the case
now for three straight years. Justin Fields Listen, it's been
a rocky road so far early in his career. But
if I'm a Steelers fan, I'm not, but I can
(22:59):
put myself in people's shoes and go. I would want
to see Justin Fields, like I want to see what
that looks like. We just hired Arthur Smith, who had
a ton of success with a guy that everyone laughed at,
and Ryan Tannehill was the guy's backup. Within a couple
of years, they're winning playoff games. So if I'm a
Steeler fan, I want to see Justin Fields and see
(23:22):
what we can do with them. I would say. One
of the biggest stories in recent memory in the draft
I'm not just talking this year, I'm talking a handful
of years, was Michael Pennix going to the Atlanta Falcons.
And part of it is the organization which has not
been winning, the fact that they have a ton of
(23:43):
young players on offense. It was pretty clear to go,
this could get weird, and this could get weird fast.
Who is b Jon Robinson, Kyle Pitts who no one
knows any good and Drake London gonna connect more with
someone who's their age or a thirty seven year old
coles Ca guy coming off an Achilles injury. Now, I
do think the conversation we can pump the brakes on it,
(24:06):
at least for training camp because he was officially clear today,
and that'd be Kirk Cousins and the way I thought
it would get weird, which would be like, what if
he's not able to go in practice and Michael Pennox
the first couple weeks of training camp is taking the
reps and we all know. I guess I'm assuming you
guys watched him at Washington at least one or two times.
(24:27):
I mean, he was in the National Championship. But even
the previous game against Texas, his deep ball is beautiful.
I mean, it's a thing of beauty. It's like Russell
Wilson circa twenty sixteen. That ball goes up in the air.
You're like, God, that is a gorgeous spiral. Now Kirk
Cousins can just take the reps. Now, ultimately training camp
ends and you start playing games, and then things could change,
(24:49):
but at least for the next month, assuming he stays
healthy and assuming he has no setbacks, that he gets
to take the starting reps, attempt to build a chemistry.
And let's face it, there's a lot of pressure on
Kirk Cousins to play well and play well early, because
this gets back to the Steeler thing. This gets back
to what I said about the Patriots. Fans in the
(25:09):
NFL have a lot of juice because nobody wants to
watch a shitty quarterback. No one wants to watch poor
quarterback play. And the moment a guy struggles, fair or not,
everyone starts chanting for the backup. Everyone does. And a
lot of times that does not work out either. But
(25:30):
that's the way it goes. So when your backup is
an already established older whoever, oh, it's one thing. It's
another thing when it's going Wait, Kirk Cousins off to
a really slow start, he's struggling. How about check out
the number eighth pick in the draft who just had
an incredible two years in college and led his team
(25:53):
to the national championship against Michigan. Let's see that guy.
That's a pretty easy conversation to get started. It's the
same thing with Drake May It's like, yeah, we've kind
of seemed Jakobe before. I think we're cool with that.
Can we test drive the new car? You know that?
Drake may guy, I understand it. And owners think a
(26:14):
lot like fans, And they definitely listen to them because
they were listening to the podcast, they're listening to the radio,
they're watching the television shows. Players and coaches at least
can lie to you and tell you they don't watch it.
Owners don't even lie. I mean, they consume the hell
out of it, and rightfully so I would too if
I was them. Last little story of the day. It's
kind of fascinating for a long period of time. Now,
(26:36):
the money was a lot different. I mean, obviously, if
you played in the NFL in the nineties and you
were a good player, you were still rich relative to society.
But google some of like ninety four contracts, like what
was EMMITTT. Smith making in ninety four or what was
you know, Troy Aikman's contract extension. It doesn't look anything
like now. Again, still a lot of money, not the same.
(26:58):
So when you're an elite player and you know you
have a ton of money coming, it's I said this
about Jordan Love the other day. I totally understand mitigating, Like,
I can't afford that if some guard trips and his
three hundred pound ass falls on my ankle and it
shatters and I got a compound fracture and I never
(27:18):
walked the same and all of a sudden, that contract
that my agent told me was probably forty eight hours away,
they just put the shredder. I'd be like, I don't
know what. I'd jump off a bridge. I wouldn't be
able to live with myself. So I get it, I
really do. And if you want to hold in, hold out, however,
I prefer with young players holding in. I just think
(27:39):
it's easier to like, have good vibes, and it's always
easier if you're an employee to be around the people
that are in control and have a positive attitude like
those people. Let's face it, most people want to work
with people they like, and then if those people that
they like are also good, like talented people and a
(28:00):
new generators and good salesmen or great receivers, like, they
want you around. Most people don't. If you could choose,
would I rather work with a positive, upbeat person that
I like who's good at his job or a negative
a whole pessimistic individual who's good at his job. We'd
all pick the same individual, so it's easy even though
(28:22):
they already know you to be like, hey, listen, this
contract talk is not easy, but I'm gonna show up.
I'm gonna be a guy. I'm not gonna practice, but
i just want you to see my attitude, like I'm
a team first guy. Like these are the people making
the decision, you know, not NFL Live, not me on
this podcast, not any fan on Twitter. It's like the
GM and the head coach and the owner. So you
(28:44):
want to give them as many good vibes as you want. Now,
Trent Williams, all that stuff's irrelevant, right, He's they like him, obviously,
they love the guy. But like, when you're that good,
it doesn't matter, you know, when you get Trent Williams,
Dion Sanders, the ed reads. I meant there are a
certain level of player you can do whatever the hell
you want. But I think Jamar Chase, who clearly has
(29:07):
a very close relationship with his quarterback, who has been
an elite player since he entered the league, is in
a weird spot because Mike Brown, I saw, I don't
know if it was earlier this week. What day is
it Thursday? Maybe it was the end of last week,
maybe it was over the weekend. I've kind of lost
track of time during this month. Basically said like, yeah,
we're probably not gonna negotiate once football seasons starts. Meeting
(29:30):
training camp, just on a football I wouldn't get ready
for a contract. If I was Jamar Chase, it'd be like, what,
you can't talk to my agent, Like, you don't have
to negotiate with me, but talk to my agent. Well,
two straight days he hasn't practiced, and his his you know,
his coach was kind of mum about it. But it's
(29:51):
pretty easy to figure out because like Brandon Ayuk, like
Ceedee Lamb. Even though Jamar Chase already rich, he was
the fifth pick in the try he signed a thirty
million dollar contract, He's already made some money. I think
the media does a poor job of this, Like that's
life changing money if you invest it correctly, that can
be generational money. But there is a big difference between
(30:13):
thirty million dollars and one hundred and twenty million dollars.
We all acknowledge that. So if I was Jamar Chase,
put Mike Brown's feet to the fire a little bit.
They've tried to act differently in the Joe Burrow era
than they had maybe going back to like Carson Palmer.
But what are you gonna do? I'll play with Jamar Chase.
What are your options? And this is where players do
(30:34):
have leverage and can just make it weird because when
he does this, it can be weird in the locker
room and you just kind of get some weird juju
even though he's not doing anything wrong. It's like, hey, guys,
time for a contract extension. But that's clearly happening all
over the league. And before we get out of here,
Fugazi Friday, I don't have a great fugazi for you
because I don't even know if this is technically a fugazi.
(30:55):
It's just a story. Last Thursday, I got invited to
play this golf course about thirty minutes away from where
I was staying in Lake Tahoe, and it was in
a place called Trucky and Oblique course. I mean it's
it's it's awesome and family led by Glenn one of
the coolest experiences of my life. Then had us over
(31:15):
for dinner. They have a incredible pad. I mean the
pads in this place are eight to fifteen, twenty million dollars.
Like you know, Wayne Gretzky, Chris Bryant, John Elway originally
had a pad. I think actually Glenn bought the lot
from him. It's just it's one of the coolest places
I've ever been. There's no debating that. So I go,
(31:36):
I take an uber from the house at about because
we're teeing off like two thirty. So I uber from
the house. It's about forty forty five minutes away, get
their play golf, and they're gonna have dinner at their
pad after. So I tell Maria, my fiance, like come
meet us. They're like, oh, bring her over. So she
comes and meets us. We have dinner, we're hanging out,
(31:58):
we're having a good time, and then we leave and
we're headed home about forty minute drive. And I wasn't
even drunk, but Maria was dd And it was a
long drive in the dark at about eleven o'clock at
night in the mountains. So you don't have like four
lane freeways here. It's it's I wouldn't say sketchy, it's
(32:19):
just not a comfortable drive. But we make it home
and listen, I've had fun all day playing golf. She
kind of waited for me to text, so it's like
I had a lot more fun in that day. And
then she has to be the DD like I could
understand spirits, her spirits being a little lower than mine.
All of a sudden, we're probably six seven minutes. Anyone
that's been in North Lake Tahoe knows there's a place
(32:39):
called Garwoods, which is awesome restaurant right on the water.
It's just always packed in the summer. I mean, they're
just they're doing hundreds of thousands of dollars of revenue
every day. So we get to Garwoods and they're just
police everywhere, and I think half the cars in front
of us thought it was a dy checkpoint because they
were all flipping uie's and going the other way. I'm like,
(33:02):
I don't what a crash here or something. Let's just
see what we get there, and we roll down the
window and the sheriff or the police officer goes there
has been because there's a ton of construction going on
up there, that one of the construction workers had hit
a plumbing line and there was thousands of gallons of
(33:23):
sewage everywhere, and I guess a ton went into the
water as well. I'm like, ah, that sucks. Can we
just again five minutes from home or do you drive
forty minutes? Can we just go around it? And the
guy's like, actually, you can't, and this road is going
to be closed. I said, well for how long? Like
an hour? He's like, I got no clue, but it's
(33:44):
going to be a while. He's like, my recommendation would
just beat a backtrack and go around. And the problem,
like I said, with these mountains is there aren't just
like side streets to get around. There's kind of one
lane in and out, a lot of plays. So we
had to go all the way back and then from
there where we had to go back to probably another
(34:06):
forty five minutes. It was a disaster all because the
amount of construction going on in the Lake Tahoe area,
which makes sense because in any of these winter mountain places,
you can't do construction four or five months a year,
so they have to double down in the summer. And
it's bananas because poop and a lady told us walking
(34:28):
the dogs yesterday that she had heard that it was
one hundred and ten thousand gallons a spillage and around
eighty of that went into the water. And when we
went swimming, probably a couple days after, and like I said,
we're five minute drive, so just down the lake. Even
(34:50):
Maria was like, God, this the lake looks kind of
just dirty today. And it had been super clear the
whole time. It was clear, even the last couple of
days when we went jet ski in the other day.
That's skiing is I'm not a motorcycle guy. Driven a
couple dirt bikes in my day, but I would not.
I've never driven a Harley or any bike like that.
There has to be a freedom, like you're just on
(35:11):
the open lake on a jet ski. I started thinking,
is this what a guy Harley feels like? Because it
is very just I don't know, freeing that there's something
just special about that feeling just on the open road
or the open sea or the open lake, just you know,
the jet ski. You go sixty miles an hour in
a jet ski, you feel like you're going ninety. But yeah,
(35:31):
and then we went swimming and the water is really dirty,
and then we figured out that yeah, it might have
been a poop all over us. So hopefully everyone had
a good vacation as well.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
The NFL seasons right around the corner. We'll be breaking
down all the off season storylines on the Colin Cowherd
podcast My Best Takes Guess like my buddy Nick Wright.
Check out the Colin Coward podcast, part of the Vault
Allume network, available on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Let's do a little thing that we like to call
the middle Coff mail Bag at John Middlecoff. At John
Middlecoff is the Instagram fire into those dms, as many
people have done. So let's start with a guy. This
is pretty crazy, but this is Sean. This is not
(36:32):
crazy because I don't even know what it's a question yet.
It's just long, So let's dive into it. At John
Middlecoff Instagram firing question comment for the bag, I'll do
my best to summarize. He did a lot of summarizing.
As the league transitions away from a running offense, NFL
gms and ownership seem to have mutually concluded that the
(36:53):
running back position is not a premium spot, citing that
teams can draft productive players later and that second contracts
are too risky. I'd agree, Yet as receivers increasing ass
increasingly asked for twenty eight to thirty five million dollars,
there seems to be little pushback from ownership in writing
(37:14):
these checks. Rarely is the dependent nature of the position discussed,
even in mits, mounting evidence that a great wide receiver
one is not needed to win a chip. For example,
Jefferson Hill, Chase Lamb, and Adams, arguably the best five
wide receivers in the league are either on losing teams
or did not win a playoff game in twenty four Chase,
(37:39):
if Burro's healthy there, they've been pretty successful. But I
hear what you're saying. The Packers made it to the
divisional round with a bunch of four to fifth and
six round rookies. Chiefs traded Hill, went back to back
with a tight end five unreliable wide receiver threes, and
going back in time, virtually none of the great Patriot
teams in the two thousands or twenty tens featured an
(38:02):
elite receiving corps. Tell you this, your question was really
long because you just wrote a lot, but it's you're
making good points. In my opinion, the offensive a defensive
lines as well as the quarterback and coach are significantly
more important to winning than an elite wide receiver talent,
Yet no one bocks when a wide receiver asked for
(38:22):
a monster deal. Plenty of elite wide receivers have rotted
away on dysfunctional teams while putting up all pro stats.
Do you think there will be a market correction and
receiver contracts? It would seem that that the most dependent
position in football should not be getting quarterback level money. Yeah,
I mean, I listen. It's why I've said with the
(38:44):
forty nine ers, like this is my number, buddy, I'm
not budgeting. If it's just I'm not budget we're not
paying anymore. And I think the forty nine ers aren't
even that comfortable giving him twenty six million dollars a year.
But they've kind of acquiesced because I think they can
get rid of Deebo Samuel next year and who knows
what George Kittle, but Ceedee Lamb. This was my thing
earlier with the Cowboys. It's like, Okay, I pay Micah Parsons,
(39:06):
which is a no brainer, and I pay Ceedee Lamb
justin Jefferson money. Well, if I let Dak walk, Like
who's throwing in the ball. Gardner minshew, I'm gonna sign
like Jacoby Brissett next year. Like what am I gonna do?
Hope and pray I strike oil again in like the
third or fourth round at quarterback. But I think where
(39:26):
it gets tough. The Chiefs paid Tyrek Hill once and
won a Super Bowl with him, and honestly, he made
one of the biggest plays in that game, right him
and Mahomes. I think they got to the point where
they chose other guys. They essentially chose Chris Jones. But yeah,
I think you would argue the defensive line is more
important than the offensive line if you have a good
(39:49):
offensive coach. Kyle Shanahan told my guy Tim Kawakami that
he thinks drafting offensive linemen high can be a little overrated.
Now I just a little bit, and he's like, well,
I drafted Trent Williams with my dad for so it's
not like we don't draft him. I agree, guards and centers,
I have no problem drafting those guys on the third
(40:10):
day of the draft and developing in them. I do
think to get good tackle play, you typically have to
draft the guys high. Most of the best tackles in
the league are high end drafted players, and I think
that philosophy for the forty nine ers, for example, was
they got they took Javon Kinlaw essentially over Tristan Wurfs.
(40:30):
It's a devastating decision. And I just think that when
you have, back to my point, like Justin Jefferson on
your team, it's hard to not want them on your team.
But it's pretty clear, and part of it is like
if we're not gonna be really good, to now sell
some jerseys, like this is a business. A lot of
people got uncomfortable when John Marrow was like, this is
(40:51):
the most popular guy on our team. I thought that
was of course he said that it's true because he's
the best player. I mean, it's not like he's just
the most popular player, like it's some guy that puts
up all of stats and know he's the best player
on the team. He's a high character guy. So like Davante,
the Packers did it right, that they really did, but
(41:13):
let's face it, they probably would have extended him if
he would have played ball. I think it's hard when
you have really good players who are good guys that
you want to keep them so I think it's easier
said than done. But I'm with you. I would struggle
paying wide receivers thirty five million dollars a year. It's like, wait,
how many games we just win last year? How many
(41:34):
games we win last year? But you're like, this is
the best player on my team. I think it's easier
to say I'm guilty of this to be like draw
a hard line trade him. I think it's also hard
to trade right, because like the Packers and the Chiefs
(41:56):
pulled it off right when they traded those two guys.
But if you wanted to trade justin Jefferson, is someone
going to give you two to ones and two twos
and then give him that contract because you can't trade
him for at this point in time for one and
a two.
Speaker 4 (42:12):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
First off, congrats on the engagement. I appreciate it. Logan,
get me out of my own head here. I've been
seeing the major fan based NFL teams usually win the
Super Bowl, and teams like the Lions, Bills, and Panthers,
for example, don't make the NFL as much money as
teams like the Packers, Patriots, Chiefs do. I will say
the Patriots and the Bills have switch spots like the
(42:34):
Bills are rating very, very highly because of Josh Allen,
So I would not put the Bills in that scenario
because the Bills are playing in a ton of afternoon
window games with Jim NANTZ, which is the highest rated
game of the day, Sunday Night Football, which is the
highest rated television show they play Monday nights Thursday Night,
like the Bills are a cash cow for the NFL
(42:56):
right now in terms of television ratings. Do you think
it's possible the NFL wouldn't want the smaller fan bases
in the Super Bowl because of ratings, could could gate
keep them out a big game by using the refs
to do so. I just think the NFL has proven
Like when the Lakers were in bed with the mob
or not, the it wasn't. I'm not blaming the Lakers.
(43:18):
Tim Donnegy was in bed with the mob and made
sure the Lakers got to the NBA Finals over the Kings.
The NBA, I think is a better example Baseball as well,
of like Lebron and Steph Curry are the only players
that rate right now in the NBA at a high
level in Major League Baseball, like having the Dodgers having
the Yankees having the Phillies or the Mets is a
(43:41):
big deal in football. It's kind of proven that these
playoff games, whether it's the Jags and the Chargers or
the Niners versus the Cowboys, you are doing massive numbers.
And obviously the Super Bowl benefits if Tom Brady or
Patrick Mahomes is there. But if I tell you right
now it's Bill's Lions in the Super Bowl, it might
(44:04):
not be the highest rates super Bowl ever, but a
one hundred million people are watching. The NFL has proven
and this is why their business model is so strong.
They're the least dependent on that stuff. Like the NBA
would sell their left you know, leg to get Steph
Curry versus Lebron James even at forty and thirty six
years old in the Conference finals against each other seven games.
I mean, they would give anything, but they no longer
(44:27):
can do that with the mob and the refs and
baseball clearly. I mean, the Dodgers, beside the fake sixty
game season, can't make it to the World Series to
save their life. Hell, they struggle to make it out
the first round, so and it hurts them. In football,
it just doesn't matter. It just it really doesn't because
of the consumer. Like think of how I consume these
(44:49):
other sports. Like if you tell me the World Series
and I love playoff Baseball, but it's like Cleveland verse
the Phillies, the guy. I don't know if I'm as
locked in, but if you tell me it's Yankees Phillies
or Yankees Dodgers, probably not missing it. Hypothetical question. I
(45:11):
liked your point on why two and DAC shouldn't get
the huge contracts and how silly it is that every
new contract the design needs to be the most expensive.
What if the league operated with a system that forced
contracts to match the position ranking example, third best automatically
gets third highest salary. What do you think the impact
would be on the franchise team building? Well, who's doing
(45:35):
the ranking? That would be the problem that the union
would go to war with who ranks them? Pff, John Midcoffe,
Colin Coward, GM Survey, I mean who gets to rank them?
I hear what you're saying, and if it was just
cut and dry, it'd be easy. But first and foremost,
(45:56):
the union would wage war on you even with this idea.
Number one and two in fairness to their argument like,
how could you properly rate who throws the most touchdowns,
who has the most wins, who's the best player voted
on by their peers top one hundred. I don't know that.
(46:17):
That's what makes it difficult. I actually see exactly what
you're saying. And if there was a way that was
objectively unarguable that like this is where they rank top
fifteen quarterbacks, I wouldn't be against it. But I think
it's impossible to get that, And it's why you get
these situations that, let's face it, forever until interest rates
(46:40):
went up, your house in your neighborhood, the next house
that went on sale in twenty and twenty one, and
then halfway through and mainly through twenty two, which is
more more, more more, And then what happened. Interest rates
started going up and we started nippicking. Yeah I don't
like your rugs, Yeah you need a new roof, Yeah
(47:00):
this layout's not as great. And who got a lot
of juice? The buyer who's had a lot of juice
to the last year plus a buyer. I know because
I bought a house last May, and I had I
tried to buy a house the year previously, and I
was gonna get bent over this time. I did some bending.
Now it was give and take. It wasn't like I
(47:22):
was in complete control. But it was not twenty twenty
one anymore, and you got to fight for a lot
of things and win some of those. And I think
that's the problem with these quarterback contracts. It doesn't feel
like there's any give or take. It's just one side,
like bend over and take it. It's like, well, we
all know you're not like a top seven quarterback, and
(47:44):
I'm just gonna pay you more. How does this make
in what other industry does that work? I understand Jordan
Love that happens in other industries. I'm betting on the future.
I think this could be you know, if it was
a stock a ten bagger, I think this guy could
be awesome. Same with Trevor Lawrence a little like I'm
betting on the future, Kirk Cousins, Dak Prescott, Like, you're
(48:08):
not betting on it, You're just buying that player, Like
we know exactly what that player is, we know exact
that the Atlanta Falcons want the player that they've seen
the last three or four years with the Minnesota Vikings.
They're not betting on some future. They just want that
players well established, Like it's that there's no question marks
what's gonna happen here, right, So I don't get it,
(48:31):
like I'm sorry, Like Tua is never gonna have great mobility,
He's never gonna have some howitzer his game. Let's face it,
we've seen those type players never really translates to winter football,
which is a problem when you play in a sunny
place and all the good teams play in frigid weather. Dak,
(48:53):
I do get, like Dak's proving every single year, like
Dek's beating the best teams in this conference. Tua cannot
do that, And I feel like this is not I'm
not like anti Tua. Whenever I think he's an impressive guy.
I like the person. He works his ass off. Again,
he's a solid starting quarterback. But like, why can't a
solid starting quarterback be like, yeah, we just signed Tua
(49:14):
to twenty six million dollars for the next four years
one hundred and whatever. That would be five million dollar contract. Wit. Wait,
that would never happen, but if it did, it'd be
like God, that that seems right, seems like a good
win win. This guy gets one hundred million dollars. Dolphins
get a solid quarterback, but he's not nearly paid like
(49:35):
the other elite guys. Never happens that way. It doesn't
feel like it ever will. I feel like the business
is a little broken. The union would be like, these
guys deserve their money. Yeah, Patrick Mahomes does, Josh Allen does,
Lamar Jackson does. Elite players. This guy's not as good
as that guy. So in what world this guy's not
as good as that guy. Yet this next guy, because
(49:57):
he's the newest, gets way more money than that guy.
How does that make any sense in any business? But
it's just like agreed upon in this one. I don't
think the owners fight back enough. Maybe because they're making
so much money. Who even gives a shit? That's probably
the reality of that answer. Okay, get you out of
the here on this. Hey, John, I'm a diehard Charger
(50:17):
fan and watch them every Sunday religiously. I appreciate that
because Nick, you've been through some stuff. You really have
You've had. I don't know how old you are. Let's
look at your profile, your block so I can't see it.
It looks like you're playing softball or something. But I'll
just assume you're thirty thirty, five thirty. You've had a
(50:42):
rough fifteen plus years. I truly believe that Herbert was
placed on the Chiefs, Bills, Bengals, he would have three
Super Bowls by now. The only reason the media doesn't
give him his flowers is because of his lack of
playoff success. But he has actually some of the worst
(51:02):
defenses of all time. Not even Mahomes would win if
he were on the Chargers. If you truly watch him play,
he is deadly accurate and makes plays no one else
can make. So why doesn't the media judge him honestly
and properly? I will say this one thing I've learned
over the last couple of years when it comes to sports,
(51:22):
when it comes to politics, who gives a shit what
ninety eight percent of the media thinks? I mean, is
there a group that, honestly, if they were talking about you,
you'd go that really hurts? Right? The overwhelming majority of
them what they say has who cares? It does not
(51:44):
matter honestly in politics, you know, it's like half of
it's like fake. They just lie. In sports, people give
their opinion. Now, some of them on TV feel like
they're fake in an opinion to try to get a reaction.
But it just doesn't matter. So when someone says a
good player is not good, it's just like who cares?
(52:08):
It doesn't If you don't think Justin Herbert is a
good player, I don't know what to tell you. Now.
He is a tough player to judge for ninety percent
of fans because of his situation. He's played with Brandon Staley.
It's like, fuck, now he's gonna get, you know, legitimately
judged in these next couple of years playing for Jim Harbaugh,
like they gotta win together as a pairing. I got
(52:30):
news for you. I would bet on them to do that.
I'm not saying they're gonna win the super Bowl, but
they're gonna be good. Why Jim Harbaugh is always really
good and Justin Herbert when he's had a good coach
or just had a well run operation like in Oregon,
he won, So I would expect them to win. Honestly,
this year, I think they win ten games and I
think Herbert's gonna be really good. So what's people on television?
(52:54):
Former players? I mean former players sometimes whenever I see
their takes like a come across social media. It's so
funny how often I get forwarded things from like assistant
GM or you know, college scouts, like this is the
dumbest take I've ever seen. Like no one I know
thinks this is real, Like this, like no one agrees
(53:18):
with this. And that's like, let's face. As a player,
to judge other players, you just judge them playing against them.
But as a GM you can be you're a scout
or just even a fan, you can kind of be objective.
You can watch other players. Listen. We all have biases.
If you hate a certain team, I get it, Like
like the Raiders. I saw this clip of them having
(53:41):
the Kermit the Frog doll with Mahomes Jersey. It's like,
what are you idiots doing? Just because you beat them
on Christmas? They just won their second Super Bowl? You
just fired like your tenth coach in twenty years. Might
even be more that, like in what world does anyone
(54:03):
think that's a good idea? In what world? Like how
stupid that is? And before like that, Chargers kind of
felt like they would do something like that. No longer
and this Chargers get lucky, That's who they play. Who
are you taking Harbaugh? And Herbert or Minshew and Antonio Pierce.
(54:24):
I'm not trying to take shots at the Raiders. At
Antonio Pierce, it seems like a good guy, but that
doll is a reflection to him. Can you imagine that
doll at an Andy Reid practice, at Kyle Shanahan, Sean
McVay practice, at a Bill Belichick. Bill Belichick would cut
that in. If that guy wasn't Tom Brady holding that doll,
that guy would be cut immediately. He would have been
(54:46):
cut yesterday. And I just think that that's what you
have going for you now. Is before it just felt
like Mickey Mouse, just just embarrassing. And let's face if
Brandon Staley was beyond over his head. And now you
get Jim Harbaught who's born to coach, be a head
coach and has been doing it for two decades and
winning at the highest level. So if people want to
(55:10):
say whatever they want about Justin Herbert, I'd say, come
talk to me in fucking November, buddy, because you better
buckle up because we're coming the volume
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Speaker 1 (02:13):
What is going on? Everybody? John Middlecock three and Out podcast.
I don't know why I'm talking like that, but hopefully
everyone is doing well. Just fired down from Lake Tahoe
to my mom's house. You know what I said, got
some takes. I want to talk a little football, so
let's fire up the old computer. So got it out
(02:33):
of the bag and now here I am talking and
wanted to dive into a lot because there's a lot
going on. We got some holdouts, Trent Williams, we got
Ceedee Lamb, some hold ends which kind of looks like
Jamar Chase Kirk Cousins cleared, Russell Wilson, hurt Fields getting
first team reps. We got a lot going on. So
(02:54):
football is more than kicking off the videos. If you
go to YouTube or Instagram or Twitter or TikTok, just
a lot happening on the football field. I watch a
good miked up today with old Jim Harbaugh, and he's
just a beauty. So it's good to have Jim Harbaugh
back in the National Football League. So we'll talk a
(03:15):
little football. It's Fugazi Friday, so I wanted to tell
a little story not quite a Fugazi, but it was
quite the experience last week. We'll dive into a little later.
So other than that, we'll also do a little mail
bag at John Middlecoff is the Instagram and next week
I'll be back in Arizona and we'll just be full
(03:35):
speed ahead with daily coverage, given takes, following what's going on,
given my thoughts on it. So I think me and
Colin are doing a podcast on Sunday night, so that'll
be for Monday, and then well the game plan will
just be a full week of podcasts basically Tuesday through Friday,
and then maybe it's just stuff happens over this month.
(03:58):
We'll also have stuff on YouTube tube as well, so
make sure you subscribe to that YouTube channel obviously, if
you subscribe to if you haven't, the three and outfeed,
if you listen on Collins feed, make sure you subscribe
to three and out feed so you never miss anything.
And let's just enjoy it because football is back in
the air, Spirits are high, and we're not too far
(04:19):
away from pads popping all around the league. I think
the Texans, they were the first team to they might
even be in pads today. They definitely will be by
this weekend, but I would imagine every team will be
in pads by the twenty fifth, twenty eighth, twenty ninth,
because that's when, like, let's face it, it's fun. It's
cool to watch Patrick Mahomes or Justin Herbert or one
(04:40):
of these guys do one of their like fifty yard bombs.
But it's not football because you can't run the ball right,
So the the lineman they just get nothing out of it.
Not nothing out of it, but it's just it's not
the same. And the evaluation from the front office it
can't really start till the pads happen. And then the
one thing cool, I guess, not for necessarily us because
(05:02):
they're not broadcasts, but in terms of just evaluating your
team as all these joint practices and obviously those get rowdy,
so god, it'd be sweet if the NFL did just
a joint practice day, if there was like seven or
eight going on and just kind of did like a
red zone version of that. That'd be badass. But actually
(05:23):
I would never say never, because we know the NFL
loves their money and we know the NFL loves their content.
So I watched the last episode of The Giants Hard Knocks.
I can be critical of Joe Shane and the situation.
I think it was a fantastic I don't know if
it's over yet, but they just finished the draft and drafted. Obviously,
(05:45):
Malik Neighbors, that's a leak content. The NFL has never
ever done anything like that. Even the stuff the teams
do right, the Jets do it, the Colts, I mean
most teams do it now doesn't sniff The access we
got that was fantastic. So props to the Giants because
clearly they have some editorial control for just kind of
(06:08):
letting it hang out there. That's as good of a
basically thirty minutes so we got two hours worth of
content of off season football, just stuff I've ever seen.
I mean, it doesn't get any better than that if
you haven't watched it, because I if you just saw
it like off season Giants hard Knocks, probably gonna be
stupid would have been my answer or my statement. I
(06:31):
don't know a month whenever before it started. I promise
you it's an in if you like football. All four
episodes were really good. They all have stuff that you're like, well,
I can't believe they're showing this, Especially with the GM.
We never ever get that type access. The emotion, you
could feel a stress. It was just I've been I've
(06:54):
had given takes on it before I know Michae Lombardi's
given a lot of takes on his podcast. I understand
it and more than fair. But the access to even
have an opinion on for us is incredible. So go
watch that. But first, you know, I got to tell
you about my friends, my partners, and most importantly, the
(07:14):
official ticketing app of this podcast. Listen, do you want
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You guys have heard me say this over and over.
Do you want to go to a concert? Do you
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have a few Bruce Ki's, maybe have a cocktail. Take
your wife, take your girlfriend, take your son, take take
a I don't know someone in business, someone you're trying
(07:36):
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(07:58):
dollars off download the game time today, last minute tickets,
lowest prices guarantee. I did know a podcast yesterday and
news broke that the best left tackle in the NFL
is officially holding out. Now. I had to take a
couple of days ago in regards to another player they
(08:19):
have who's holding in that, I thought it was the
right move that Brandon Ayuk. They've had a very contentious
off season. He's been very emotional. Feels like he's requested
seven trades, posted eighty million things on social media and
has been all over the map, and John and Kyleer
are like, yeah, see, you can't, buddy. We got an
offer on the table and that's still materializing. There was
(08:41):
just a video from my guy Matt Barrows of like
him walking into John Lynch's office I think after practice,
So clearly they're trying to get it done well. Today.
Probably a little bit of an issue for Brandon Ayuk
that he's no longer the priority because Trent Williams is
one of those rare guys. The is objectively agreed upon
(09:03):
from the analytical community, from the itest fan community, from
the scouting community, from the coaching community, and most importantly,
the other players his peers best left tackle in the
game non quarterback, easily one of the best players in
the game. And it's not like he's in the prime
of his career. He's like thirty five years old. He
wants more money. In my initial take, don't blame him
(09:26):
at all. Had the same take earlier this offseason when
Christian McCaffrey said the same thing, under no circumstances can
I play if I'm Trent Williams and I'm the fifth
highest paid left tackle, And honestly, these left tackle numbers
per year feel a little off because who's more important?
If the forty nine ers this year had to choose
one player, Brandon Ayuk or Trent Williams, and listen, this
(09:48):
is not a criticism of Brandon Auk. He's an awesome player,
He's a winning player. He deserves to be paid a
lot of money. I can promise you this. John Lynch
and Kyle Shanahan wouldn't even hesitate. It would be Trent
Trent Williams. Now, ultimately they don't have to make that decision.
They get to keep them both. But what happened with
Christian McCaffrey, It's like well, I no longer have guaranteed money.
You didn't sign me to this contract. I'm scheduled to
(10:11):
make like eleven million dollars. I'm sorry, that's laughable. And
they bumped him up and it's like eighteen nineteen million
dollars this year, rightfully, so good move. If I'm Trent Williams,
won this contract that I'm currently playing on, is what
I got. The forty nine Ers gave him this contract
because he had hit free agency several years ago, and
(10:31):
it actually came down to a bidding between Andy Reid
and the Chiefs and the forty nine Ers and the
forty nine ers. I mean, they had no choice. They
had to give him a large amount of money I
think at the time was sixty million dollars guaranteed, which
seems like peanuts now twenty a year. Which, again, if
I'm Trent Williams and I get like, comp's work for
(10:53):
ninety percent of players like this guy got this, this
is what you get. He's a little better, you're a
little worse. You're you're a little better, he's a little worse.
Is all based on that there are certain players in
this league, a guy like Trent Williams where I go.
I don't really give a shit. If you really want
me to play this year, I have no guaranteed money,
Like this is my number, maybe it's twenty eight million dollars,
So I'm gonna need an eight million dollar race Like
(11:16):
that's got to happen. Now. I went to years of
practices with Trent Williams involved. Training camp for him isn't
exactly the Junction boys. This isn't exactly nineteen fifty, nineteen
sixty role tied Alabama Bear Bryant. Listen, he's one of
those guys who probably could play an NFL game three
hundred and sixty five days a year. So training camp
(11:38):
for him, I'm not saying it's not necessary. Of course,
it's necessary for any player. But he ain't repping every
single practice. Goot. He gets a lot of days off,
he gets a lot of plays off. They treat him
like they should. One of the most valuable assets, who's
an older player who they need. And the only thing
when it comes to Trent Williams is like week one,
(12:01):
he's on my left tackle and we want him healthy.
But listen, when you're at his level, you got leverage
because you need me more than I need you. I'm
super rich. I've made a boatload of money. Now I'm
a great player. I like playing football, and I'm playing
on playing football, hopefully for the niner sake the next
couple of years, because they have zero answer at that position.
(12:22):
And it's not like they're gonna be flush with cash
because they're paying all these other guys to go sign
a left tackle. And let's face it, left tackles never
hit the open market. Who are any good? It was
very rare that Trent Williams was even in that position,
But I don't blame him. And if I was him,
I'd ask for a massive race and they go, what
about all these I don't Christian Darisow, if I was
(12:43):
Trent Williams, I'd be like, Who's that? What? I compare
myself to Jonathan Ogden, to a Walter Jones, Like that's
the way I'm discussed, not like the hot young commodity
in the NFL, Like this is going to be a complicated.
This is part of what makes this job so difficult.
(13:04):
It's why I've said forever I give John Lynch a
lot of credit for doing this. Just like when Steve
Kerr signed up, he was already super rich, he was
already super successful. He had a bunch of rings, and
he's like, you know what I want to coach. Now
you can say it was a great situation, it is
still a lot of added stress that is not there
(13:25):
if you're not doing it. And John Lynch same thing.
Already a champion. Now he's in the Hall of Fame.
He had a great job at Fox, was making seven figures,
and he's like, you know what I want to do.
Deal with Brandon Ayuk's agent when I'm on vacation. You
know what I want to do? Show up to training
camp and have to deal with my star future Hall
(13:47):
of Fame left tackle who needs a massive raise, and
I have to balance all the books and we already
have a high praise. Like I'm sorry, most human beings
would not want to do that. But he's just one
of those guys that likes his feet in the fire.
He likes the action. You know, the juice is the squeeze, right.
So I just think that this team, like all these guys,
(14:09):
high level winning players, most people are gonna pick this team.
If you're not picking them to be in the super Bowl,
to be right there in the mix. You know, in
the final four or final two in the NFC. But
this type stuff you deal with year after year. You
guys that want money, right, It's like, what did how
wee have happened this offseason? Like Hasan Reddick's like I
want to raise now I'm not comparing Asano Reddick to
(14:30):
Trent Williams. It was like, we don't want that headache,
see you. Joe Douglas is like, yeah, I'll take that headache.
And I don't even plan to pay him. So it's
just training camp. Man. I always thought, like the season,
you know, I've never been as stressed out. Now I'm
a high anxiety guy to begin with, Like just my blood,
you know, runs hot. I would say, like most people
(14:53):
or else you die. But you know what I mean,
I run hot. That stress of training camp, of guys
getting in, of working out guys, of guys not living
up to the hype, of people being angry players just
it's it's a stressful time there is. You have to
monitor the league like crazy because guys are constantly getting cut,
(15:13):
Like once the season starts. The structure of the season
is very mapped out. Obviously, you might play on a
Thursday or Sunday night or Monday, but like every week's
kind of the same and if you have one injury,
you just work out one position. It's kind of a
fire drill during training camp. And let's face it, the
forty nine ers got a lot going on. I mean,
the Cowboys got a lot going on, but they always
(15:35):
got a lot going on. And in fairness, like Dallas
is choosing not to extend Dak Prescott right now, the
forty nine Ers want Trent Williams to be happy. They
want Brandon Ayuk to be happy. I wonder if the
Cowboys are like, yeah, let's just see how Dak responds.
Let's see if he can answer the bell, because he
has in the last three years. And I think when
you look at the Cowboys, Ceedee Lamb, you know, let's
(15:57):
face it, Ceedee Lamb does not view himself in Brandon
Ayuk's category, right, He just does not. He views himself
with Justin Jefferson. Now, whether that's correct or not, we're
talking an astronomical amount of money that he, I'm sure
is seeking. And this gets pretty complicated. And I started
thinking today actually, when I was driving home from Tahoe,
(16:18):
maybe the Cowboys plan is this we go all in. Obviously,
we're gonna have to pay Ceedee Lamb and Micah Parsons
a ton of cash, and that is a huge part
of our core moving forward, and we'll figure out the quarterback.
And then I thought, isn't that kind of what the
Raiders are doing right now? They got Max Crosby, who's
a star, they got DeVante Adams who's like a Hall
(16:39):
of Famer, and they have no quarterback, and no one
really takes them that seriously. Right, They have really good
players at a bunch of different positions. But I don't
think you'll meet a soul who's not a Raider fan
who would pick them to make the playoffs, because how
could you They don't have a quarterback. And I just
this is the hard part about the Dallas situation. And
(17:00):
this is why when you get the Dak Prescott's you
saw it forever in Minnesota with Kirk Cousins, you just
kind of keep riding it out cause you are terrified
to ever be in a position warse like, guy, we
got some sweet All Pro impact players. It's like, oh,
who's your quarterback? You're like, ain't O'Connell Gardner Minshew, You're like, uh,
you're not winning shit. That's kind of the way it goes.
(17:22):
And I could see if you were Dallas because it's
easy and listen, I've said it, like just move on,
let him hit free agency. It's easy to say that.
And he's got flaws clearly in January, but he's still
better than most And what would they do, Like it's like,
what's their answer going to be? Trey Lance? Kyle Shanahan
couldn't get rid of him quick enough. Kyle Shanahan bailed
(17:42):
on Trey Lance like eighteen months ago, so that's not
an option. Yeah, and I know they're gonna play him
a bunch this preseason, but he's just not that good.
It's just just a fact of life. So to me,
when you look at the Cowboys, you go feels like
they're kind of stuck and it could be one of
those positions if they just win a playoff games like oh,
(18:02):
Dak threw multiple interceptions in the second round, Say okay,
let him hit free agency, and then what are you doing?
Because there aren't really any options ever. And this is
where Ceedee Lamb kind of has them by the balls,
like he's gonna get a ton of money it's like
Michah Parsons, same thing, gonna get a ton of money,
like a ton of money. It's like, well, Dak Prescott
(18:23):
because of the position he plays. Even if we all
agree that he's not Josh Allen, he's not Mahomes obviously
not Lamar still is gonna command what two hundred and
ten million dollars guaranteed. So the three of those guys
would have sent it'd be like an NBA team. He'd
be like, Yeah, we got three or four guys and
a bunch of other minimum players and draft PLT picks.
(18:44):
That's kind of what the Cowboys would have to do
because of the positions those guys play. It's one thing
I've always said about the Niners. They've gotten very lucky
that two of their best players are, you know, over
the last four years that are on huge contracts, are
linebacker and a tight end. And those guys value like
doesn't exceed fifteen million dollars a year, where if Fred
(19:06):
Warner had been a corner or a wide receiver or
the right tackle, their books would look a lot different.
And George Kittle, who will see I mean last year
he was clearly banged up. They show in receiver, Like,
the difference of him playing tight end and wide receiver
is probably the difference of seven eight million dollars a
(19:29):
year minimum. So that's not the case with the Cowboys.
Their best players are pass rusher, wide receiver. We get debated,
but I mean, obviously Dak is one of their best
players quarterback. It's like, gee, how do we do this?
And it becomes a problem, and it becomes a problem
fast financially, Now, no one you can be like I
(19:51):
always hear media members say this like, I'm not gonna
cry for owners. It's not even about that. It's like
there's a salary cap. You gotta build your team and
that can be very complicated.
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Speaker 1 (20:48):
Today, let's hit on a couple other things. Russell Wilson
missed practice as of Thursday recording this. I think they
said with that little calf strain. I'm not acting like
I'm no doctor. I don't know. I'm not acting like
he's out for the season or anything. But I kind
(21:08):
of assume like this is gonna be a player that
my expectations are little to none, and anyone that argues,
they're like, look, get a statellyed last year. It's like, guys,
we all sat on the couch over the course of
the first couple months and watched that team play, and
we've all seen Russell Wilson in his heyday and it
doesn't even resemble the same player. Now, I don't I've
(21:31):
said it over and over. Totally understand why the Steelers
would want him for I don't know a million dollars.
I would have done that too, but I've said consistently
just because, like many people, I follow the NFL very closely.
I've watched this league for a long time. We have
seen situations, like most situations in football, copy themselves over
(21:56):
and over, like I the Patriots, I can see that
thing coming from a mile. Jacoby Brissett is our starter.
Jacoby Brissett is gonna play, and he is going to
mentor our young quarterback. What happens week seven when they're
two and five and lifeless and the crowd's booing and
Robert Krafts like just getting shitited on in the media,
(22:17):
I'll tell you Drake may will start. We've seen that
exact scenario take place in my adult life, I don't
know twenty plus times. So with Russell Wilson, let's face it,
he's not the same player. And I don't know if
Justin Field is any good. He definitely hasn't been in
terms of a passer. But part of why you pay
(22:38):
coaches a lot of money is to see if you
can get the best out of a guy. And we
know what Russell is a diminishing asset, a guy that
you can't consistently win with. Because that's been the case
now for three straight years. Justin Fields Listen, it's been
a rocky road so far early in his career. But
if I'm a Steelers fan, I'm not, but I can
(22:59):
put myself in people's shoes and go. I would want
to see Justin Fields, like I want to see what
that looks like. We just hired Arthur Smith, who had
a ton of success with a guy that everyone laughed at,
and Ryan Tannehill was the guy's backup. Within a couple
of years, they're winning playoff games. So if I'm a
Steeler fan, I want to see Justin Fields and see
(23:22):
what we can do with them. I would say. One
of the biggest stories in recent memory in the draft
I'm not just talking this year, I'm talking a handful
of years, was Michael Pennix going to the Atlanta Falcons.
And part of it is the organization which has not
been winning, the fact that they have a ton of
(23:43):
young players on offense. It was pretty clear to go,
this could get weird, and this could get weird fast.
Who is b Jon Robinson, Kyle Pitts who no one
knows any good and Drake London gonna connect more with
someone who's their age or a thirty seven year old
coles Ca guy coming off an Achilles injury. Now, I
do think the conversation we can pump the brakes on it,
(24:06):
at least for training camp because he was officially clear today,
and that'd be Kirk Cousins and the way I thought
it would get weird, which would be like, what if
he's not able to go in practice and Michael Pennox
the first couple weeks of training camp is taking the
reps and we all know. I guess I'm assuming you
guys watched him at Washington at least one or two times.
(24:27):
I mean, he was in the National Championship. But even
the previous game against Texas, his deep ball is beautiful.
I mean, it's a thing of beauty. It's like Russell
Wilson circa twenty sixteen. That ball goes up in the air.
You're like, God, that is a gorgeous spiral. Now Kirk
Cousins can just take the reps. Now, ultimately training camp
ends and you start playing games, and then things could change,
(24:49):
but at least for the next month, assuming he stays
healthy and assuming he has no setbacks, that he gets
to take the starting reps, attempt to build a chemistry.
And let's face it, there's a lot of pressure on
Kirk Cousins to play well and play well early, because
this gets back to the Steeler thing. This gets back
to what I said about the Patriots. Fans in the
(25:09):
NFL have a lot of juice because nobody wants to
watch a shitty quarterback. No one wants to watch poor
quarterback play. And the moment a guy struggles, fair or not,
everyone starts chanting for the backup. Everyone does. And a
lot of times that does not work out either. But
(25:30):
that's the way it goes. So when your backup is
an already established older whoever, oh, it's one thing. It's
another thing when it's going Wait, Kirk Cousins off to
a really slow start, he's struggling. How about check out
the number eighth pick in the draft who just had
an incredible two years in college and led his team
(25:53):
to the national championship against Michigan. Let's see that guy.
That's a pretty easy conversation to get started. It's the
same thing with Drake May It's like, yeah, we've kind
of seemed Jakobe before. I think we're cool with that.
Can we test drive the new car? You know that?
Drake may guy, I understand it. And owners think a
(26:14):
lot like fans, And they definitely listen to them because
they were listening to the podcast, they're listening to the radio,
they're watching the television shows. Players and coaches at least
can lie to you and tell you they don't watch it.
Owners don't even lie. I mean, they consume the hell
out of it, and rightfully so I would too if
I was them. Last little story of the day. It's
kind of fascinating for a long period of time. Now,
(26:36):
the money was a lot different. I mean, obviously, if
you played in the NFL in the nineties and you
were a good player, you were still rich relative to society.
But google some of like ninety four contracts, like what
was EMMITTT. Smith making in ninety four or what was
you know, Troy Aikman's contract extension. It doesn't look anything
like now. Again, still a lot of money, not the same.
(26:58):
So when you're an elite player and you know you
have a ton of money coming, it's I said this
about Jordan Love the other day. I totally understand mitigating, Like,
I can't afford that if some guard trips and his
three hundred pound ass falls on my ankle and it
shatters and I got a compound fracture and I never
(27:18):
walked the same and all of a sudden, that contract
that my agent told me was probably forty eight hours away,
they just put the shredder. I'd be like, I don't
know what. I'd jump off a bridge. I wouldn't be
able to live with myself. So I get it, I
really do. And if you want to hold in, hold out, however,
I prefer with young players holding in. I just think
(27:39):
it's easier to like, have good vibes, and it's always
easier if you're an employee to be around the people
that are in control and have a positive attitude like
those people. Let's face it, most people want to work
with people they like, and then if those people that
they like are also good, like talented people and a
(28:00):
new generators and good salesmen or great receivers, like, they
want you around. Most people don't. If you could choose,
would I rather work with a positive, upbeat person that
I like who's good at his job or a negative
a whole pessimistic individual who's good at his job. We'd
all pick the same individual, so it's easy even though
(28:22):
they already know you to be like, hey, listen, this
contract talk is not easy, but I'm gonna show up.
I'm gonna be a guy. I'm not gonna practice, but
i just want you to see my attitude, like I'm
a team first guy. Like these are the people making
the decision, you know, not NFL Live, not me on
this podcast, not any fan on Twitter. It's like the
GM and the head coach and the owner. So you
(28:44):
want to give them as many good vibes as you want. Now,
Trent Williams, all that stuff's irrelevant, right, He's they like him, obviously,
they love the guy. But like, when you're that good,
it doesn't matter, you know, when you get Trent Williams,
Dion Sanders, the ed reads. I meant there are a
certain level of player you can do whatever the hell
you want. But I think Jamar Chase, who clearly has
(29:07):
a very close relationship with his quarterback, who has been
an elite player since he entered the league, is in
a weird spot because Mike Brown, I saw, I don't
know if it was earlier this week. What day is
it Thursday? Maybe it was the end of last week,
maybe it was over the weekend. I've kind of lost
track of time during this month. Basically said like, yeah,
we're probably not gonna negotiate once football seasons starts. Meeting
(29:30):
training camp, just on a football I wouldn't get ready
for a contract. If I was Jamar Chase, it'd be like, what,
you can't talk to my agent, Like, you don't have
to negotiate with me, but talk to my agent. Well,
two straight days he hasn't practiced, and his his you know,
his coach was kind of mum about it. But it's
(29:51):
pretty easy to figure out because like Brandon Ayuk, like
Ceedee Lamb. Even though Jamar Chase already rich, he was
the fifth pick in the try he signed a thirty
million dollar contract, He's already made some money. I think
the media does a poor job of this, Like that's
life changing money if you invest it correctly, that can
be generational money. But there is a big difference between
(30:13):
thirty million dollars and one hundred and twenty million dollars.
We all acknowledge that. So if I was Jamar Chase,
put Mike Brown's feet to the fire a little bit.
They've tried to act differently in the Joe Burrow era
than they had maybe going back to like Carson Palmer.
But what are you gonna do? I'll play with Jamar Chase.
What are your options? And this is where players do
(30:34):
have leverage and can just make it weird because when
he does this, it can be weird in the locker
room and you just kind of get some weird juju
even though he's not doing anything wrong. It's like, hey, guys,
time for a contract extension. But that's clearly happening all
over the league. And before we get out of here,
Fugazi Friday, I don't have a great fugazi for you
because I don't even know if this is technically a fugazi.
(30:55):
It's just a story. Last Thursday, I got invited to
play this golf course about thirty minutes away from where
I was staying in Lake Tahoe, and it was in
a place called Trucky and Oblique course. I mean it's
it's it's awesome and family led by Glenn one of
the coolest experiences of my life. Then had us over
(31:15):
for dinner. They have a incredible pad. I mean the
pads in this place are eight to fifteen, twenty million dollars.
Like you know, Wayne Gretzky, Chris Bryant, John Elway originally
had a pad. I think actually Glenn bought the lot
from him. It's just it's one of the coolest places
I've ever been. There's no debating that. So I go,
(31:36):
I take an uber from the house at about because
we're teeing off like two thirty. So I uber from
the house. It's about forty forty five minutes away, get
their play golf, and they're gonna have dinner at their
pad after. So I tell Maria, my fiance, like come
meet us. They're like, oh, bring her over. So she
comes and meets us. We have dinner, we're hanging out,
(31:58):
we're having a good time, and then we leave and
we're headed home about forty minute drive. And I wasn't
even drunk, but Maria was dd And it was a
long drive in the dark at about eleven o'clock at
night in the mountains. So you don't have like four
lane freeways here. It's it's I wouldn't say sketchy, it's
(32:19):
just not a comfortable drive. But we make it home
and listen, I've had fun all day playing golf. She
kind of waited for me to text, so it's like
I had a lot more fun in that day. And
then she has to be the DD like I could
understand spirits, her spirits being a little lower than mine.
All of a sudden, we're probably six seven minutes. Anyone
that's been in North Lake Tahoe knows there's a place
(32:39):
called Garwoods, which is awesome restaurant right on the water.
It's just always packed in the summer. I mean, they're
just they're doing hundreds of thousands of dollars of revenue
every day. So we get to Garwoods and they're just
police everywhere, and I think half the cars in front
of us thought it was a dy checkpoint because they
were all flipping uie's and going the other way. I'm like,
(33:02):
I don't what a crash here or something. Let's just
see what we get there, and we roll down the
window and the sheriff or the police officer goes there
has been because there's a ton of construction going on
up there, that one of the construction workers had hit
a plumbing line and there was thousands of gallons of
(33:23):
sewage everywhere, and I guess a ton went into the
water as well. I'm like, ah, that sucks. Can we
just again five minutes from home or do you drive
forty minutes? Can we just go around it? And the
guy's like, actually, you can't, and this road is going
to be closed. I said, well for how long? Like
an hour? He's like, I got no clue, but it's
(33:44):
going to be a while. He's like, my recommendation would
just beat a backtrack and go around. And the problem,
like I said, with these mountains is there aren't just
like side streets to get around. There's kind of one
lane in and out, a lot of plays. So we
had to go all the way back and then from
there where we had to go back to probably another
(34:06):
forty five minutes. It was a disaster all because the
amount of construction going on in the Lake Tahoe area,
which makes sense because in any of these winter mountain places,
you can't do construction four or five months a year,
so they have to double down in the summer. And
it's bananas because poop and a lady told us walking
(34:28):
the dogs yesterday that she had heard that it was
one hundred and ten thousand gallons a spillage and around
eighty of that went into the water. And when we
went swimming, probably a couple days after, and like I said,
we're five minute drive, so just down the lake. Even
(34:50):
Maria was like, God, this the lake looks kind of
just dirty today. And it had been super clear the
whole time. It was clear, even the last couple of
days when we went jet ski in the other day.
That's skiing is I'm not a motorcycle guy. Driven a
couple dirt bikes in my day, but I would not.
I've never driven a Harley or any bike like that.
There has to be a freedom, like you're just on
(35:11):
the open lake on a jet ski. I started thinking,
is this what a guy Harley feels like? Because it
is very just I don't know, freeing that there's something
just special about that feeling just on the open road
or the open sea or the open lake, just you know,
the jet ski. You go sixty miles an hour in
a jet ski, you feel like you're going ninety. But yeah,
(35:31):
and then we went swimming and the water is really dirty,
and then we figured out that yeah, it might have
been a poop all over us. So hopefully everyone had
a good vacation as well.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
The NFL seasons right around the corner. We'll be breaking
down all the off season storylines on the Colin Cowherd
podcast My Best Takes Guess like my buddy Nick Wright.
Check out the Colin Coward podcast, part of the Vault
Allume network, available on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Let's do a little thing that we like to call
the middle Coff mail Bag at John Middlecoff. At John
Middlecoff is the Instagram fire into those dms, as many
people have done. So let's start with a guy. This
is pretty crazy, but this is Sean. This is not
(36:32):
crazy because I don't even know what it's a question yet.
It's just long, So let's dive into it. At John
Middlecoff Instagram firing question comment for the bag, I'll do
my best to summarize. He did a lot of summarizing.
As the league transitions away from a running offense, NFL
gms and ownership seem to have mutually concluded that the
(36:53):
running back position is not a premium spot, citing that
teams can draft productive players later and that second contracts
are too risky. I'd agree, Yet as receivers increasing ass
increasingly asked for twenty eight to thirty five million dollars,
there seems to be little pushback from ownership in writing
(37:14):
these checks. Rarely is the dependent nature of the position discussed,
even in mits, mounting evidence that a great wide receiver
one is not needed to win a chip. For example,
Jefferson Hill, Chase Lamb, and Adams, arguably the best five
wide receivers in the league are either on losing teams
or did not win a playoff game in twenty four Chase,
(37:39):
if Burro's healthy there, they've been pretty successful. But I
hear what you're saying. The Packers made it to the
divisional round with a bunch of four to fifth and
six round rookies. Chiefs traded Hill, went back to back
with a tight end five unreliable wide receiver threes, and
going back in time, virtually none of the great Patriot
teams in the two thousands or twenty tens featured an
(38:02):
elite receiving corps. Tell you this, your question was really
long because you just wrote a lot, but it's you're
making good points. In my opinion, the offensive a defensive
lines as well as the quarterback and coach are significantly
more important to winning than an elite wide receiver talent,
Yet no one bocks when a wide receiver asked for
(38:22):
a monster deal. Plenty of elite wide receivers have rotted
away on dysfunctional teams while putting up all pro stats.
Do you think there will be a market correction and
receiver contracts? It would seem that that the most dependent
position in football should not be getting quarterback level money. Yeah,
I mean, I listen. It's why I've said with the
(38:44):
forty nine ers, like this is my number, buddy, I'm
not budgeting. If it's just I'm not budget we're not
paying anymore. And I think the forty nine ers aren't
even that comfortable giving him twenty six million dollars a year.
But they've kind of acquiesced because I think they can
get rid of Deebo Samuel next year and who knows
what George Kittle, but Ceedee Lamb. This was my thing
earlier with the Cowboys. It's like, Okay, I pay Micah Parsons,
(39:06):
which is a no brainer, and I pay Ceedee Lamb
justin Jefferson money. Well, if I let Dak walk, Like
who's throwing in the ball. Gardner minshew, I'm gonna sign
like Jacoby Brissett next year. Like what am I gonna do?
Hope and pray I strike oil again in like the
third or fourth round at quarterback. But I think where
(39:26):
it gets tough. The Chiefs paid Tyrek Hill once and
won a Super Bowl with him, and honestly, he made
one of the biggest plays in that game, right him
and Mahomes. I think they got to the point where
they chose other guys. They essentially chose Chris Jones. But yeah,
I think you would argue the defensive line is more
important than the offensive line if you have a good
(39:49):
offensive coach. Kyle Shanahan told my guy Tim Kawakami that
he thinks drafting offensive linemen high can be a little overrated.
Now I just a little bit, and he's like, well,
I drafted Trent Williams with my dad for so it's
not like we don't draft him. I agree, guards and centers,
I have no problem drafting those guys on the third
(40:10):
day of the draft and developing in them. I do
think to get good tackle play, you typically have to
draft the guys high. Most of the best tackles in
the league are high end drafted players, and I think
that philosophy for the forty nine ers, for example, was
they got they took Javon Kinlaw essentially over Tristan Wurfs.
(40:30):
It's a devastating decision. And I just think that when
you have, back to my point, like Justin Jefferson on
your team, it's hard to not want them on your team.
But it's pretty clear, and part of it is like
if we're not gonna be really good, to now sell
some jerseys, like this is a business. A lot of
people got uncomfortable when John Marrow was like, this is
(40:51):
the most popular guy on our team. I thought that
was of course he said that it's true because he's
the best player. I mean, it's not like he's just
the most popular player, like it's some guy that puts
up all of stats and know he's the best player
on the team. He's a high character guy. So like Davante,
the Packers did it right, that they really did, but
(41:13):
let's face it, they probably would have extended him if
he would have played ball. I think it's hard when
you have really good players who are good guys that
you want to keep them so I think it's easier
said than done. But I'm with you. I would struggle
paying wide receivers thirty five million dollars a year. It's like, wait,
how many games we just win last year? How many
(41:34):
games we win last year? But you're like, this is
the best player on my team. I think it's easier
to say I'm guilty of this to be like draw
a hard line trade him. I think it's also hard
to trade right, because like the Packers and the Chiefs
(41:56):
pulled it off right when they traded those two guys.
But if you wanted to trade justin Jefferson, is someone
going to give you two to ones and two twos
and then give him that contract because you can't trade
him for at this point in time for one and
a two.
Speaker 4 (42:12):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
First off, congrats on the engagement. I appreciate it. Logan,
get me out of my own head here. I've been
seeing the major fan based NFL teams usually win the
Super Bowl, and teams like the Lions, Bills, and Panthers,
for example, don't make the NFL as much money as
teams like the Packers, Patriots, Chiefs do. I will say
the Patriots and the Bills have switch spots like the
(42:34):
Bills are rating very, very highly because of Josh Allen,
So I would not put the Bills in that scenario
because the Bills are playing in a ton of afternoon
window games with Jim NANTZ, which is the highest rated
game of the day, Sunday Night Football, which is the
highest rated television show they play Monday nights Thursday Night,
like the Bills are a cash cow for the NFL
(42:56):
right now in terms of television ratings. Do you think
it's possible the NFL wouldn't want the smaller fan bases
in the Super Bowl because of ratings, could could gate
keep them out a big game by using the refs
to do so. I just think the NFL has proven
Like when the Lakers were in bed with the mob
or not, the it wasn't. I'm not blaming the Lakers.
(43:18):
Tim Donnegy was in bed with the mob and made
sure the Lakers got to the NBA Finals over the Kings.
The NBA, I think is a better example Baseball as well,
of like Lebron and Steph Curry are the only players
that rate right now in the NBA at a high
level in Major League Baseball, like having the Dodgers having
the Yankees having the Phillies or the Mets is a
(43:41):
big deal in football. It's kind of proven that these
playoff games, whether it's the Jags and the Chargers or
the Niners versus the Cowboys, you are doing massive numbers.
And obviously the Super Bowl benefits if Tom Brady or
Patrick Mahomes is there. But if I tell you right
now it's Bill's Lions in the Super Bowl, it might
(44:04):
not be the highest rates super Bowl ever, but a
one hundred million people are watching. The NFL has proven
and this is why their business model is so strong.
They're the least dependent on that stuff. Like the NBA
would sell their left you know, leg to get Steph
Curry versus Lebron James even at forty and thirty six
years old in the Conference finals against each other seven games.
I mean, they would give anything, but they no longer
(44:27):
can do that with the mob and the refs and
baseball clearly. I mean, the Dodgers, beside the fake sixty
game season, can't make it to the World Series to
save their life. Hell, they struggle to make it out
the first round, so and it hurts them. In football,
it just doesn't matter. It just it really doesn't because
of the consumer. Like think of how I consume these
(44:49):
other sports. Like if you tell me the World Series
and I love playoff Baseball, but it's like Cleveland verse
the Phillies, the guy. I don't know if I'm as
locked in, but if you tell me it's Yankees Phillies
or Yankees Dodgers, probably not missing it. Hypothetical question. I
(45:11):
liked your point on why two and DAC shouldn't get
the huge contracts and how silly it is that every
new contract the design needs to be the most expensive.
What if the league operated with a system that forced
contracts to match the position ranking example, third best automatically
gets third highest salary. What do you think the impact
would be on the franchise team building? Well, who's doing
(45:35):
the ranking? That would be the problem that the union
would go to war with who ranks them? Pff, John Midcoffe,
Colin Coward, GM Survey, I mean who gets to rank them?
I hear what you're saying, and if it was just
cut and dry, it'd be easy. But first and foremost,
(45:56):
the union would wage war on you even with this idea.
Number one and two in fairness to their argument like,
how could you properly rate who throws the most touchdowns,
who has the most wins, who's the best player voted
on by their peers top one hundred. I don't know that.
(46:17):
That's what makes it difficult. I actually see exactly what
you're saying. And if there was a way that was
objectively unarguable that like this is where they rank top
fifteen quarterbacks, I wouldn't be against it. But I think
it's impossible to get that, And it's why you get
these situations that, let's face it, forever until interest rates
(46:40):
went up, your house in your neighborhood, the next house
that went on sale in twenty and twenty one, and
then halfway through and mainly through twenty two, which is
more more, more more, And then what happened. Interest rates
started going up and we started nippicking. Yeah I don't
like your rugs, Yeah you need a new roof, Yeah
(47:00):
this layout's not as great. And who got a lot
of juice? The buyer who's had a lot of juice
to the last year plus a buyer. I know because
I bought a house last May, and I had I
tried to buy a house the year previously, and I
was gonna get bent over this time. I did some bending.
Now it was give and take. It wasn't like I
(47:22):
was in complete control. But it was not twenty twenty
one anymore, and you got to fight for a lot
of things and win some of those. And I think
that's the problem with these quarterback contracts. It doesn't feel
like there's any give or take. It's just one side,
like bend over and take it. It's like, well, we
all know you're not like a top seven quarterback, and
(47:44):
I'm just gonna pay you more. How does this make
in what other industry does that work? I understand Jordan
Love that happens in other industries. I'm betting on the future.
I think this could be you know, if it was
a stock a ten bagger, I think this guy could
be awesome. Same with Trevor Lawrence a little like I'm
betting on the future, Kirk Cousins, Dak Prescott, Like, you're
(48:08):
not betting on it, You're just buying that player, Like
we know exactly what that player is, we know exact
that the Atlanta Falcons want the player that they've seen
the last three or four years with the Minnesota Vikings.
They're not betting on some future. They just want that
players well established, Like it's that there's no question marks
what's gonna happen here, right, So I don't get it,
(48:31):
like I'm sorry, Like Tua is never gonna have great mobility,
He's never gonna have some howitzer his game. Let's face it,
we've seen those type players never really translates to winter football,
which is a problem when you play in a sunny
place and all the good teams play in frigid weather. Dak,
(48:53):
I do get, like Dak's proving every single year, like
Dek's beating the best teams in this conference. Tua cannot
do that, And I feel like this is not I'm
not like anti Tua. Whenever I think he's an impressive guy.
I like the person. He works his ass off. Again,
he's a solid starting quarterback. But like, why can't a
solid starting quarterback be like, yeah, we just signed Tua
(49:14):
to twenty six million dollars for the next four years
one hundred and whatever. That would be five million dollar contract. Wit. Wait,
that would never happen, but if it did, it'd be
like God, that that seems right, seems like a good
win win. This guy gets one hundred million dollars. Dolphins
get a solid quarterback, but he's not nearly paid like
(49:35):
the other elite guys. Never happens that way. It doesn't
feel like it ever will. I feel like the business
is a little broken. The union would be like, these
guys deserve their money. Yeah, Patrick Mahomes does, Josh Allen does,
Lamar Jackson does. Elite players. This guy's not as good
as that guy. So in what world this guy's not
as good as that guy. Yet this next guy, because
(49:57):
he's the newest, gets way more money than that guy.
How does that make any sense in any business? But
it's just like agreed upon in this one. I don't
think the owners fight back enough. Maybe because they're making
so much money. Who even gives a shit? That's probably
the reality of that answer. Okay, get you out of
the here on this. Hey, John, I'm a diehard Charger
(50:17):
fan and watch them every Sunday religiously. I appreciate that
because Nick, you've been through some stuff. You really have
You've had. I don't know how old you are. Let's
look at your profile, your block so I can't see it.
It looks like you're playing softball or something. But I'll
just assume you're thirty thirty, five thirty. You've had a
(50:42):
rough fifteen plus years. I truly believe that Herbert was
placed on the Chiefs, Bills, Bengals, he would have three
Super Bowls by now. The only reason the media doesn't
give him his flowers is because of his lack of
playoff success. But he has actually some of the worst
(51:02):
defenses of all time. Not even Mahomes would win if
he were on the Chargers. If you truly watch him play,
he is deadly accurate and makes plays no one else
can make. So why doesn't the media judge him honestly
and properly? I will say this one thing I've learned
over the last couple of years when it comes to sports,
(51:22):
when it comes to politics, who gives a shit what
ninety eight percent of the media thinks? I mean, is
there a group that, honestly, if they were talking about you,
you'd go that really hurts? Right? The overwhelming majority of
them what they say has who cares? It does not
(51:44):
matter honestly in politics, you know, it's like half of
it's like fake. They just lie. In sports, people give
their opinion. Now, some of them on TV feel like
they're fake in an opinion to try to get a reaction.
But it just doesn't matter. So when someone says a
good player is not good, it's just like who cares?
(52:08):
It doesn't If you don't think Justin Herbert is a
good player, I don't know what to tell you. Now.
He is a tough player to judge for ninety percent
of fans because of his situation. He's played with Brandon Staley.
It's like, fuck, now he's gonna get, you know, legitimately
judged in these next couple of years playing for Jim Harbaugh,
like they gotta win together as a pairing. I got
(52:30):
news for you. I would bet on them to do that.
I'm not saying they're gonna win the super Bowl, but
they're gonna be good. Why Jim Harbaugh is always really
good and Justin Herbert when he's had a good coach
or just had a well run operation like in Oregon,
he won, So I would expect them to win. Honestly,
this year, I think they win ten games and I
think Herbert's gonna be really good. So what's people on television?
(52:54):
Former players? I mean former players sometimes whenever I see
their takes like a come across social media. It's so
funny how often I get forwarded things from like assistant
GM or you know, college scouts, like this is the
dumbest take I've ever seen. Like no one I know
thinks this is real, Like this, like no one agrees
(53:18):
with this. And that's like, let's face. As a player,
to judge other players, you just judge them playing against them.
But as a GM you can be you're a scout
or just even a fan, you can kind of be objective.
You can watch other players. Listen. We all have biases.
If you hate a certain team, I get it, Like
like the Raiders. I saw this clip of them having
(53:41):
the Kermit the Frog doll with Mahomes Jersey. It's like,
what are you idiots doing? Just because you beat them
on Christmas? They just won their second Super Bowl? You
just fired like your tenth coach in twenty years. Might
even be more that, like in what world does anyone
(54:03):
think that's a good idea? In what world? Like how
stupid that is? And before like that, Chargers kind of
felt like they would do something like that. No longer
and this Chargers get lucky, That's who they play. Who
are you taking Harbaugh? And Herbert or Minshew and Antonio Pierce.
(54:24):
I'm not trying to take shots at the Raiders. At
Antonio Pierce, it seems like a good guy, but that
doll is a reflection to him. Can you imagine that
doll at an Andy Reid practice, at Kyle Shanahan, Sean
McVay practice, at a Bill Belichick. Bill Belichick would cut
that in. If that guy wasn't Tom Brady holding that doll,
that guy would be cut immediately. He would have been
(54:46):
cut yesterday. And I just think that that's what you
have going for you now. Is before it just felt
like Mickey Mouse, just just embarrassing. And let's face if
Brandon Staley was beyond over his head. And now you
get Jim Harbaught who's born to coach, be a head
coach and has been doing it for two decades and
winning at the highest level. So if people want to
(55:10):
say whatever they want about Justin Herbert, I'd say, come
talk to me in fucking November, buddy, because you better
buckle up because we're coming the volume
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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