John recaps his best of the week by diving into Xander winning The Open (6:15), Jordan Love waiting for a new deal before taking any snaps at Packers training camp (17:47) and reacting to all the hold in and hold outs with the 49ers (28:00).
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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Speaker 1 (02:13):
What is going on? Everybody? John Middlecoff three and out podcast.
Hopefully everyone is having a good little weekend. We're gonna
get back to this because uh we haven't done it
a little while, but we enjoy doing these and put
together just in case you miss some shows, a little
best of and uh to for a little refresher. We
(02:35):
just picked some of the topics of the week and
some of my favorites, some of our producers favorites, and
we just kind of rock with that. So this week
the best of is gonna be Xander Shoffley. I don't
know if you saw, but he won his second major,
joining guys like Tiger Woods and Roy McElroy and Brooks
kept in a special category, Jordan Love and the Packers
(02:58):
awfully interesting little situation brewin in Green Bay, and Brandon
Ayuk he reported to training camp but he's holding in
and Trent Williams is holding out. So we'll kind of
dive into the forty nine ers ongoing saga of star
players who want more money. I mean, let's face it,
who doesn't want more money? But this is the best
(03:20):
of and let's dive right in. But first, if you
want to go to an event like the Open I
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Last minute tickets, lowest prices guaranteed. I never understand when
someone gets really close a lot in golf and people go,
he's never gonna win it. When you are consistently in
(04:24):
the top five and the top ten, and you're a
younger player, things are eventually bound to break your way.
And I say it all the time with Rory, who
had it off a week obviously, like if he keeps
putting himself in position, he's gonna win another major. But
unlike Xander, like he has a bunch. Like If him
and Speed and Koepka and some of these guys never
(04:44):
win again, it ultimately doesn't really matter to their resume
because they already have four and five, right, So when
you have a lot of majors, it's it's less pressure
in the sense that your legacy has already cemented as
an all time great champ And then when you get
into a spot like Xander and you have all these
top tens and you don't have a major, people just
(05:06):
start asking the questions. And then at Valhalla he wins
and everyone says, wow, that was really more like a
PGA Tour tournament, right, People are going eighteen twenty under,
that's not your typical major championship, which, listen, I agree
with that the course played easier, But he shot sixty
five on Sunday and he held off Bryce and g
(05:27):
Chambeau who went on to win at Pinehurst, and Victor Hovlin,
who really, for the only time this season looked incredible.
But this week there is no debating he dominated and
the last two days, especially today, I mean to shoot
sixty five was really a special performance by Xander, And
now he has entrenched himself. There's a group. Since two thousand,
(05:50):
I think there's been five players to win multiple majors
in a season. Eldrick Tiger Woods did it four times.
Obviously he's the goat. Koepka has done it, Rory has
done it, Speith has done it, and internet sensation great
Instagram follow Potty Harrington did it as well, and Xander
(06:11):
has joined that company. But here's the thing, Scotty Scheffler
is continually compared to tiger Woods, and rightfully so ya
six champions or six tournament wins. He won the Masters,
He's had a remarkable season because of the per sizes,
He's already won close to thirty million dollars people talk
about as Caddy would be top fifty on the money
list when today ended. Xander Schaffley, without a doubt, has
(06:35):
had a better season like last year. In the NFL,
Lamar Jackson won the MVP. Would anyone say that when
the year ended, you'd rather be Lamar Jackson than Patrick Mahomes.
Of course not. And Scotty Scheffler would trade his season
this year for Xander in a harpeat. In a New
York minute, he wouldn't even flinch to hand all those
(06:59):
wins away for a second major. And now here's the thing,
Like Scotty is viewed as this transcendent talent rightfully. So
the way he's played these last couple of years, he's
got two majors and they just happened to be at
the same place. Zander now is closer to the career
Grand Slam than Scotty Scheffler. Think about that, within two months,
(07:20):
the guy went from zero to two and now is
two majors away. He plays exceptionally well at the US Open.
It is very likely if he maintains this level of
play for the next couple of years, he could easily
win that tournament. And he's also been really successful at Augusta.
So it's not out of the realm possibility that Xander
ends his career. I mean, he's still a younger guy
(07:42):
with the career Grand Slam. Scotty Scheffler has to win
all three of them. So listen, Scotty did not have
it today. He was terrible putting on Saturday today. He
was all over the map. I mean, he had a
shot on eighteen that looked like me or you classic
immediately grabs his back and very disappointing because coming into today,
(08:07):
I think Xander was favored at plus three fifty on
DraftKings and Scotty was like plus three sixty, a couple
shots back. And obviously Scotty kind of derailed today and
Xander put the pedal of the medal and lapped the
field and really the last four or five holes the
tournament was over. And now Xander has I don't want
(08:28):
to say one of the greatest ever because he's got
a long way to go, but solidified himself as right
there with Scotty as the best American player. And for
the first time, and I didn't write down the number
in like forty five to fifty years, the Americans swept
the majors. Now part of it is Xander won two,
Bryson obviously won the US Open, and Scotty won Augusta,
(08:49):
which really kind of leads us those guys like Bryson
should be at the Olympics with Scotti, Xander, and Morikawa.
But regardless, like it was hard to call Xander the
best or the second best American over the last five years,
despite his resume, despite him dominating, despite the money he
was making, despite how consistently awesome he was in the majors.
(09:12):
Not really debatable. And like I said, Scottie Scheffler would
trade his season for Xander Shoffley's tells you all you
need to know. So, like the gap between those two guys,
is there a big gap? Honestly? Is there one? Because
here's the thing with this live the separation of some
of the top guys on the other tour and the
(09:34):
dilution of the PGA Tour, It's still impressive to win
a golf tournament. I don't care if you're playing your
member guest. I don't care if you're playing on the
corn Ferry Tour or a designated event with no cuts.
So I'm not trying to take anything away from Scotty
Scheffler and winning tournaments. That's the goal of everything when
you're a professional golfer. But like, what's the difference in
the two guys? Honestly, you can be like Strokes Gade like,
(09:57):
I don't know. I watched the two in the biggest moments.
I don't see much of a difference, and that speaks
that's not trying to criticize Scotty at all. He's an
elite player. So Xander, I view them basically, especially after
the day, kind of the same guy. And now that
Xander's won a second major, I don't really know how
you argue that, And I think the question is big picture,
especially if Xander were to win a playoff event despite
(10:20):
not having as many wins this season, is Xander the
player of the year, Because what's a major worth relative
to a PGA tournament, Like if we were just trying
to put a number of value on it, five wins,
eight wins, it's gotta be worth at minimum five x
So you could argue this second major victory. Now, Scotty
(10:43):
could still win a couple of tournaments and be the
FedEx champion. But I think they're right there. And if
you wanted to make Xander Shoffley your player of the year,
I wouldn't argue. And I said it coming into this tournament,
like we can't compare Scotty to Tiger, Like those comparisons
died the day, honestly they were dead, Like he was
(11:03):
never Tiger Woods, but he was having a Tiger like season,
the Tiger like seasons, like I said, four times, Tiger
won multiple majors in a season, and Scotty was right
there with like twenty seven thirty fifteen holes to go
and he just didn't have his a game. And listen,
it's golf that happened sometime. But like those comparaions, we
(11:26):
can't do that anymore. And I understand statistically you can
throw some numbers up, but like you cannot have a
conversation with a friend or Bsen at a bar or
on the golf course and bring those two names together,
that can no longer happen. That's not a criticism of
Tiger Woods. It's like comparing someone to Tom Brady or
(11:47):
Joe Montana. You have to be very very in a
very very special category level of accomplishment to even garner
the words to come out of someone's mouth. And it
ended to day at least with this season, and I
think moving forward, as long as this guy's gonna play
this well, you have to capitalize on these major championships.
(12:08):
This is why when we throw out these over unders,
like how many majors is Scotty gonna win? Six to seven?
It's really hard. Now, he might end up winning Augusta
like four or five times, but we've seen him got
very close and the other majors, and he hasn't got
it done and today Xander I put it on overdrive
and Scotty had no shot, and ultimately Xander I don't
(12:29):
want to say benefited, but the group of guys he
was really fending off were Tristan Lawrence, which unless you
follow the DP Tour, no one's heard of, Justin Rose,
who had to qualify to get in, who's one of
the best players of the twenty tens, but he's an
older guy who has not played well lately. Shane Lowry
(12:49):
was kind of, you know, coming falling apart and then
he kind of stormed back and then he fall apart.
And Billy Horschell, who actually played pretty well today but
who's never ever play well in a major really beside,
I think like his first major in twenty thirteen, the
US Open, he has been pretty terrible in them. This
was his first kind of, I don't know, opportunity to
(13:12):
win one of his career really, and he was good,
but he wasn't Xander good, and he's not Xander good.
So I think, listen the world Golf rankings, we know
they're worthless now. I think when you look at it, though,
I'm gonna give Bryson and Rory a little bit of
a pass this week. But I don't see how you
can look at Xander any different than Scottie Scheffler as
(13:35):
of July twenty first, twenty twenty four. You don't like
anyone on your homepage on Instagram, you get all sorts
of crap. And today I saw this clip of Cuban
(13:56):
with Howard Stern. It looked like when Cuban was a
lot younger, so maybe this was ten fifteen years ago.
And Cuban told the story about how when I think
he was acquired his company by Yahoo and they gave
him the stock options, and this was right before the
dot com crash of like ninety nine, two thousand, and
(14:17):
what he essentially did is he put a force sell
on the stock if it hit a certain number not
much higher from what he had, and he hedged his
bet that if it went lower, the puts in the calls,
essentially that he couldn't lose. That he might make a
little less, but under no circumstances was he going to
get bent over and left holding nothing. And a lot
(14:38):
of people did. And Mark Cuban obviously made over two
billion dollars and he said, we had countless people. I
told everyone that was involved with our company to do it.
Some people listened. We had just random employees that made
twenty five thirty million dollars because of it, and we
had people that made basically nothing. And when you have
an astronomical amount of money on the line, I think
(15:00):
you have to be very careful. And when the story
broke this morning, you know you didn't have that much information.
And as time went on and you read Gudikin's quotes,
it's pretty clear. And they've talked about it since OTAs
they are working on a contract right now and it
feels like it's coming down the home stretch. Part of
what Gudakin said today with Jordan Love, we think he
(15:24):
won't miss much time now. Obviously he's not missing any
time in the sense of he's at the building, he's
at the facility, he's there during meetings. But I think
it's fair. If I was going to take an educated guess,
I would imagine this contract's closer to Trevor Lawrence than
it is Kirk Cousins. So you're talking anywhere between one
(15:44):
hundred and fifty two hundred million dollars guaranteed, And I'm sorry,
and the quarterbacks you saw Patrick Mahomes showed up. It's
like pitchers and catchers, they have to get there when
the rookies get there. It's just not worth someone falling
into your leg, use planning weird and tearing an ACL.
There is just too much money on the line. I
always support listen. I'm a supporter of hold ins more
(16:06):
than holdouts, because this is not these other sports, especially baseball,
where you know this team can't pay you. In football,
every team has the money and when you're a high
end player. And we'll get into the the question marks
with Jordan Love, but clearly he showed enough that, like
if he can maintain it, he's a high end player,
especially at his position, teams are gonna want you hold in, like,
(16:28):
do it in good faith negotiation. Negotiating through the media,
I'm sorry, is just kind of stupid in twenty twenty four.
It doesn't work. Nothing like scrubbing your Instagram account. I'm sorry.
No general manager or head coach gives a shit about
your Instagram account. So I give Jordan Love credit. Now,
you could argue he's only a one year starter, He's
(16:48):
really only had half a really good season. Holding out
would be a little extreme, but I definitely completely understand.
You have to take all the risk out of it.
You can't tear it a at some walkthrough because some
overachiever undrafted free agent is trying to be a hero
and get noticed by the defensive line coach and takes
(17:09):
your knee out and I'm sorry. Like there's a cutthroat world.
That's the way the private sector in America works, and
they would yank that bad boy quickly off the table.
So this is the right to me move by his agent,
by him, and it's also a good way to do
it showing this isn't contentious. We're just being smart about
our money because there's just too much on the line.
(17:29):
I say it all the time, like when I won
that bet on Bryson to win eighteen thousand dollars. It
didn't give me that big of a high, partly because
I only had one hundred and fifty dollars on the line.
But if I had had ten thousand dollars to win
eighteen thousand, I would have sweated it a lot more.
And the level in which the numbers were talking about
(17:50):
with these quarterback contracts, and like I said, my guess
would be maybe it's a little under Trevor Lawrence. Even
though here's what I know. If you just look at
these players like stocks, if I had to buy one,
I would buy Jordan Love over Trevor Lawrence. And honestly,
I wouldn't hesitate. I wouldn't even have to think. And
(18:10):
if I was a GM, I wouldn't even have to
hold a meeting. I would one hundred percent take Jordan
Love over Tua. And we're talking about guys. One guy
just signed a big contract, the other guy's talking contract negotiations.
Now there's no debating there is risk involved. Both those
guys have been playing a lot more. We have a
lot longer resume, And part of being a good player
at the highest level in the NFL is doing it
(18:32):
over and over and over and over again. And it's hard,
Like we've all watched the NFL long enough now to
know like there's a reason the great players really the
only thing that slows them down is injury. But how
difficult it is to maintain a Pro Bowl, all pro
level of play Listen, we can nitpick Aaron Rodgers, but
(18:54):
the motherfucker was elite for fifteen straight years. Tom Brady,
Peyton Manning, Like the only thing that slows them. Those
guys down are injuries. We've seen a lot of players
have good years then come back to earth. Matt Ryan,
Cam Newton, Philip Rivers, somewhat up and down. Eli Manning right,
most guys are not elite. And listen, this guy you
could not watch the Packers last year, and I go,
(19:17):
you know, it kind of looks like Aaron Rodgers. I
mean that's kind of the throw Aaron Rodgers used to make.
It's crazy to say that. Listen, I was wrong. I
shorted the situation. I just played the odds. I'm like, wait,
you're telling me you're gonna go from Farv to Rogers.
They literally went from Farv to a guy who's better
(19:39):
than Farv. Like, now you're gonna get another even if
he's not better than Rogers or Farv, another high end guy.
Early on the season, I felt pretty good about my stance.
By the end, I've thrown it out and like, I
kind of like this player I'm in. And I heard
Collins saying this, Listen, part of investing in this situation
is you've been around this guy for four straight years.
(19:59):
You know how he interacts with his teammates, you know
how he studies. You know how he prepares, you have
no question marks, and that while short body of work,
it couldn't have been much more impressive down the stretch.
I mean, we saw him in a game against Dak Prescott.
Dak Prescott just signed a four year, one hundred and
sixty million dollar contract five years ago, and now he
thinks he's gonna get over two hundred million dollars. Who
(20:20):
would you take again, It's not like there's no risk involved.
I got news free. There's risk in everything. Every business,
no matter what you do, has risk involved, even the
most quote unquote you know, recession proof industries, everything that
there are tailwinds here. But you could not tell me
sitting here for the next five years, if you had
to bet on one, Dak's the safer bet. If you
(20:43):
want to stay on the slow lane, I'll go on
the fast lane, I'll probably pass you. And that's what
I think the packers are looking at this, and that's
probably why he's just can't risk someone falling into his
leg over the next Again, based on the quotes I saw,
it feels like this deal's done within the next at
latest seven days, potentially in the next couple days, it's
(21:03):
gonna be a lot of money, but they have to
feel pretty good about their stance. Here's the other thing
Gudikins and Laflor, I mean, part of the thing with
Aaron Rodgers when it got weird was because of this,
because of this guy. Now it feels like Aaron likes
the guy. Obviously, you know, people are just most quarterbacks
(21:23):
should be well liked. They should be guys, guys, they
should get along with a lot of people. And let's
face it, based on the evidence we have, like Gudakins
and the Floor were right. They got rid of the
older quarterback and they went with the younger guy who's
got a chance to be Listen, he's got a long
way to go to win four or five MVPs. I'm
not saying he's gonna be better than Aaron Rodgers, but
(21:45):
he showed signs of Aaron Rodgers. Why. Huge arm athlete, accurate,
great deep ball. Obviously, they are a high level organization.
They draft well, they always have good pieces. I mean
they've had good pieces on offense and Farvo's there. Think
of Roger's time, right from Driver to Greg Jennings to
(22:06):
Jordan Nelson to DeVante Adams, they always got, you know,
running backs, they are always have a pretty solid offensive line.
Defense is somewhat the question mark. They got to figure
that out. But part of that to me is getting
a good defensive coordinator. So listen, I haven't picked my
divisions yet, it's only July twenty second. But and the
only reason I wouldn't pick the Packers because they're in
(22:27):
the division with the Lions. But I like the Packers
a lot, and I like this player a lot. He
blew me away, So I understand Betton on him because
sometimes part of life is you know, there's always risk involved,
but you try to mitigate it. But when I'm a
huge believer in following your gut, and once your gut
(22:48):
you have some evidence, I'm all about pushing your chips
in the middle of the table, like life's if you
want to get anywhere successful, big, wherever you're trying to go,
sometimes you got to have the balls to put it,
you know, all the chips in the middle of the table.
And that's what it feels like the Packers are about
to do with Jordan Loff and then let the cards
fall out they may.
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Speaker 4 (23:55):
Today I got home and I watched the press conference
of John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan, and anyone that saw
Kyle today saw that he shaved off his mustache.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
I tried to trim up and do a mustache, but
my mustache just does not come in full. And as
Kyle said, the thing when you become a mustache guy.
You It just brings your respect because someone has to
have an opinion, whether they like it or they don't.
They look at you weird, but it creates a motion
with people when they see you. I tried to pull
it off, could not. But the big news out of
(24:29):
forty nine ers Land today is that Brandon Nyuk is
attending training camp. Now they've had this happen before with
Deebo Samuel. He did not practice. And I think it's
pretty clear. I've been in enough negotiations in my life
to know the older you get and all sorts you know,
with high level billion dollar companies and startups that you
(24:51):
were hoping would be that turned out not to be
and went under. Is that anytime negotiations get shady, and
for most of us the these aren't public negotiations, but
anytime that you feel that shady stuff is going on,
it's harder to get a deal done. Now in a
public forum like the NFL, to me, that's the equivalent
(25:13):
of using the media. And I understand Brandon. This is
his first big contract. He's very emotional and he used
the media up several times and the last one to
request a trade. I've said this all the time. This
is not the NBA. Teams don't capitulate to your demands immediately.
In that the forty nine ers don't give a shit.
(25:35):
No one cares when you scrub your Instagram account, No
one cares when you tell one of the national reporters
you request the trade. It does, especially in the middle
of the summer. It doesn't actually do anything. The easiest
way to get a deal done, and players like Brandon
Aiyuk are players that their team wants to get a
deal done with is to play ball. And the easiest
(25:57):
way to play ball is good faith and gociations. And
the way you do that as a player is you
show up a training camp. Now you don't have to
get on the field. Look at Jordan Love, I'm not
risking getting injured. For Jordan Love, that could be one
hundred and fiftye hundred and eighty two hundred million dollars.
For Brandon Ayuk that could be sixty seventy million dollars guaranteed.
I totally get it. I support guys that want to
(26:20):
hold in, but younger players, I think this is the
way to go, especially when you know the team financially
plans on paying you these negotiations are tough. We're talking
a lot of money. Most teams just don't hand out
that type money, especially when they have a ton of
other guys under contract. And it's complicated. But I promise
you this, and John Lynch reiterated this today. We plan
(26:43):
on this guy being a forty nine er. We want
him on the team. Of course they do. He's a
winning player. They have won a ton the last couple
of years with him being their number one outside option.
But once you get down to in any negotiation the hour,
I think Brandon Ayuk and the forty nine ers have
(27:03):
to kind of draw a line in the sand. Are
we gonna let this deal pass over a total of
five million dollars right? A million extra a year to
bump that number from twenty six and a half to
twenty eight right over a four year period or whatever.
Anyone that's ever bought a house or sold a house,
or sold a car, or sold any asset, you get
(27:24):
to a port a certain time in the negotiation where
emotions are high. I don't care if you're selling something
worth a thousand dollars or two million dollars, like you
get emotional over things, and I think you see this
a lot in real estate. Are we gonna let this
deal go over five thousand dollars? Are we gonna let
this deal go over ten thousand dollars? This is a
one point eight million dollar transaction. And that's where I
(27:47):
think the forty nine ers and Brandon Ayuk are kind
of looking at each other, you know, from across the
negotiation table. But we're close, and we got to get
this figured out. Someone's gonna blink. And I think the
reality is is that Brandon Ayuk through his last curve
ball the trade request, and he realized those guys don't
(28:08):
give a shit. They simply do not. That's the National
Football League. If I don't want to trade you, and
I like you, and you're emotionally charged up and you
want to trade, I just yeah, see a training camp.
And that's essentially what the forty nine ers said. And
I give him credit. He showed up, because the easiest
way to get this deal done is doing exactly what
(28:29):
he did, show up. George Kittle had a great line
today that he said Richard Sherman told him contract negotiations
are a lot like bracist. They suck when they're on,
just like they suck when you're going through a negotiation,
but once they're off, once the deal is signed, you
forget that you even went through it. You have a
(28:51):
big smile on your face. And that's what's happening here.
It happened last year with Nick Bosa, it happened a
couple of years ago with Deebo Samuel. The forty nine ers.
To me, the only team that's truly championship or bust
is the Chiefs because they're the only team rattling off championships.
But like the forty nine, or is anything less than
winning the NFC and being back in the Super Bowl
(29:12):
with a chance to win it is a major, major disappointment.
And I'm on a bunch of text threads with Niner people.
The reality of even the potential trade is any team
trading a first round pick, and let's face, the forty
nine is probably gonna want more. I would say at
minimum they'd want like a one and a three and
then giving him one hundred and twenty million dollar contract.
(29:35):
I don't know. I would say probably not. I think
teams would be willing to acquire them, like the Tennessee
Titans traded for what's his name snead on the Chiefs,
they trade a third round pick. The New York Giants
traded for Brian Burns, and then they both paid those
guys a lot of money. They didn't even give it
a first round pick. So yeah, teams are open to
(29:56):
making deals for good players, but at what costs? Because
I know I have to pay them. But what type
draft capital do I have to use? The other thing?
Draft capital? Right now, as we see here on July
twenty third, with the season upon us and in front
of us, does the forty nine ers no good? It's
actually completely irrelevant. Having that draft capital for a player
(30:20):
that you're going to select in the spring of twenty
twenty five does nothing for you. Trying to win the division,
trying to beat the Rams, the Lions, the Eagles, the
Packers in the playoffs, and then probably the Chiefs in
the Super Bowl does nothing. And that's why they have
no intention of trading them, just trying to get the
deal worked out. I did know a podcast yesterday and
(30:44):
news broke that the best left tackle in the NFL
is officially holding out. Now, I had to take a
couple of days ago in regards to another player they
have who's holding in that. I thought it was the
right move and Auk. They've had a very contentious off season.
He's been very emotional. Feels like he's requested seven trades,
(31:07):
posted eighty million things on social media and has been
all over the map, and John and Kyleer are like, yeah, see,
you can't, buddy. We got an offer on the table
and that's still materializing. There was just a video from
my guy, Matt Barrows of like him walking into John
Lynch's office I think after practice, so clearly they're trying
to get it done well. Today. Probably a little bit
(31:28):
of an issue for Brandon Ayuk that he's no longer
the priority because Trent Williams is one of those rare
guys that is objectively agreed upon from the analytical community,
from the itest fan community, from the scouting community, from
the coaching community, and most importantly the other players his peers,
(31:51):
best left tackle in the game, non quarterback, easily one
of the best players in the game. And it's not
like he's in the prime of his career. He's like
thirty five years old. He wants more money. In my
initial take, don't blame him at all. Had the same
take earlier this offseason, when Christian McCaffrey said the same thing,
under no circumstances can I play if I'm Trent Williams
and I'm the fifth highest paid left tackle, And honestly,
(32:13):
these left tackle numbers per year feel a little off
because who's more important? If the forty nine ers this
year had to choose one player, Brandon Ayuk or Trent Williams,
and listen, this is not a criticism of Brandon. He's
an awesome player, he's a winning player. He deserves to
be paid a lot of money. I can promise you this.
John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan wouldn't even hesitate. It would
(32:36):
be Trent or Trent Williams. Now, ultimately they don't have
to make that decision. They get to keep them both.
But what happened with Christian McCaffrey, It's like, well, I
no longer have guaranteed money. You didn't sign me to
this contract. I'm scheduled to make like eleven million dollars,
I'm sorry, that's laughable, And they bumped him up and
it's like eighteen nineteen million dollars this year, rightfully, so
good move. If I'm Trent Williams won this contract that
(32:59):
I'm currently playing on is what I got. The forty
nine Ers gave him this contract because he had hit
free agency several years ago, and it actually came down
to a bidding between Andy Reid and the Chiefs and
the forty nine ers and the forty nine ers, I mean,
they had no choice. They had to give him a
large amount of money I think at the time was
(33:20):
sixty million dollars guaranteed, which seems like peanuts now twenty
a year, which again, if I'm Trent Williams and I
get like, comp's work for ninety percent of players like
this guy got this. This is what you get. He's
a little better, You're a little worse. You're you're a
little better, he's a little worse. And it's all based
on that. There are certain players in this league, a
(33:40):
guy like Trent Williams where I go, I don't really
give a shit. If you really want me to play
this year, I have no guaranteed money, like this is
my number. Maybe it's twenty eight million dollars, so I'm
gonna need an eight million dollar race like that's got
to happen. Now. I went to years of practices with
Trent Williams involved. Training camp for him isn't exactly the junction, boys,
(34:03):
This isn't exactly nineteen fifty nineteen sixty role tied Alabama
Bear Bryant. Listen, he's one of those guys who probably
could play an NFL game three hundred and sixty five
days a year. So training camp for him, I'm not
saying it's not necessary. Of course it's necessary for any player,
but he ain't repping every single practice. He gets a
(34:24):
lot of days off, he gets a lot of plays off.
They treat him like they should. One of the most
valuable assets, who's an older player who they need. And
the only thing when it comes to Trent Williams is
like Week one, he's on my left tackle and we
want him healthy. But listen, when you're at his level,
you got leverage because you need me more than I
(34:46):
need you. I'm super rich, I've made a boatload of money.
Now I'm a great player. I like playing football, and
I'm planning on playing football, hopefully for the niners sake
the next couple of years, because they have a zero
answer at that position, and it's not like they're gonna
be flush with cash because they're paying all these other
guys to go sign a left tackle, and let's face it,
left tackles never hit the open market. Who were any good.
(35:07):
It was very rare that Trent Williams was even in
that position, But I don't blame him. And if I
was him, I'd ask for a massive race and they go,
what about all these I don't Christian Darisow, If I
was Trent Williams, I'd be like, who's that?
Speaker 4 (35:22):
What?
Speaker 1 (35:25):
I compare myself to Jonathan Ogden, to a Walter Jones,
Like that's the way I'm discussed, not like the hot
young commodity in the NFL, and that's like, this is
going to be a complicated. This is part of what
makes this job so difficult. It's why I've said forever
I give John Lynch a lot of credit for doing this.
(35:47):
Just like when Steve Kerr signed up, he was already
super rich, he was already super successful, he had a
bunch of rings and he's like, you know what I
want to coach? Now you could say it was a
great situation, it is still a lot of added stress
that is not there if you're not doing it. And
John Lynch same thing. Already a champion. Now he's in
the Hall of Fame. He had a great job at Fox,
(36:11):
was making seven figures. And he's like, you know what
I want to do deal with Brandon Ayuk's agent when
I'm on vacation. You know what I want to do?
Show up to training camp and have to deal with
my star future Hall of Fame left tackle who needs
a massive raise, and I have to balance all the
books that we already have a high praise. Like, I'm sorry,
most human beings would not want to do that, but
(36:33):
he's just one of those guys that likes his feet
in the fire. He likes the action. You know, the
juice is the squeeze, right, So I just think that
this team, like all these guys, high level winning players,
most people are gonna pick this team if you're not
picking him to be in the super Bowl, to be
right there in the mix, you know, in the final four,
final two in the NFC. But this type of stuff
(36:56):
you deal with year after year. You guys that want money, Right,
It's like, what and how we have happened this offseason?
Like Hassan Reddick's like, I want to raise now, I'm
not comparing Asano Reddick to Trent Williams was like, we
don't want that headache, see you. Joe Douglas is like, yeah,
I'll take that headache. And I don't even plan to
pay him. So it's just training camp. Man. I always thought,
(37:17):
like the season, you know, I've never been as stressed out.
Now I'm a high anxiety guy to begin with, Like
just my blood, you know, runs hot. I would say,
like most people or else you die. But you know
what I mean, I run hot. That stress of training camp,
of guys getting injured, of working out guys, of guys
(37:39):
not living up to the hype, of people being angry
players just it's it's a stressful time there is. You
have to monitor the league like crazy because guys are
constantly getting cut. Like once the season starts. The structure
of the season is very mapped out. Obviously you might
play on a Thursday or Sunday night or Monday, but
like every week's kind of the same, and if you
(38:01):
have one injury, you just work out one position. It's
kind of a fire drill during training camp. And let's
face it, the forty Niners got a lot going on.
I mean the Cowboys got a lot going on. But
they always got a lot going on. And in fairness,
like Dallas is choosing not to extend Dak Prescott right now,
the forty dine Ers want Trent Williams to be happy.
They want Brandon Ayuk to be happy. I wonder if
(38:22):
the Cowboys are like, yeah, let's just see how Dak responds.
Let's see if he can answer the bell, because he
has in the last three years. And I think when
you look at the Cowboys, Ceedee Lamb, you know, let's
face it, Ceedee Lamb does not view himself in Brandon
Ayuke's category, right, He just does not. He views himself
with Justin Jefferson. Now, whether that's correct or not, we're
(38:45):
talking an astronomical amount of money that he I'm sure
is seeking. And this gets pretty complicated. And I started
thinking today actually, when I was driving home from Tahoe,
maybe the Cowboys plan is this, we go all in. Obviously,
we're gonna have to pay ceed Lamb Micah Parsons a
ton of cash and that is a huge part of
our core moving forward, and we'll figure out the quarterback.
(39:07):
And then I thought, isn't that kind of what the
Raiders are doing right now? They got Max Crosby, who's
a star. They got DeVante Adams who's like a Hall
of Famer, and they have no quarterback, and no one
really takes them that seriously, right that they have really
good players at a bunch of different positions. But I
don't think you'll meet a soul who's not a Raider
fan who would pick them to make the playoffs, because
(39:29):
how could you. They don't have a quarterback. And I
just this is the hard part about the Dallas situation.
And this is why when you get the Dak Prescott's
you saw it forever in Minnesota with Kirk Cousins, you
just kind of keep riding it out cause you are
terrified to ever be in a position where it's like, guy,
we got some sweet All Pro impact players, it's like, oh,
(39:51):
who's your quarterback. You're like ain O'Connell, Gardner Minshew, You're like,
you're not winning shit. That's kind of the way it goes.
And I could if you were Dallas because it's easy.
And listen, I've said it, like just move on, let
him hit free agency. It's easy to say that. And
he's got flaws clearly in January, but he's still better
than most, and what would they do, Like, it's like,
(40:13):
what's their answer gonna be? Trey Lance? Kyle Shanahan couldn't
get rid of him quick enough. Kyle Shanahan had bailed
on Trey Lance like eighteen months ago, so that's not
an option. Yeah, and I know they're gonna play him
a bunch this preseason, but he's just not that good.
It's just just a fact of life. So to me,
when you look at the Cowboys, you go feels like
(40:33):
they're kind of stuck and it could be one of
those positions like if they just win a playoff games
like oh, Dak threw multiple interceptions in the second round,
say okay, let him hit free agency and then what
are you doing? Because there aren't really any options ever.
And this s where Ceedee Lamb kind of has him
by the balls like he's gonna get a ton of money.
(40:53):
It's like Micah Parsons, same thing, gonna get a ton
of money, like a ton of money. It's like, well,
Das Scott because of the position he plays. Even if
we all agree that he's not Josh Allen, he's not
Mahomes obviously not. Lamar still is going to command what
two hundred and ten million dollars guaranteed, So the three
of those guys would have sent it'd be like an
(41:15):
NBA team. He'd be like, Yeah, we got three or
four guys and a bunch of other minimum players and
draft p picks. That's kind of what the Cowboys would
have to do because of the positions those guys play.
It's one thing I've always said about the Niners. They've
gotten very lucky that two of their best players are
you know, over the last four years that are on
huge contracts are a middle linebacker and a tight end.
(41:38):
And those guys value like doesn't exceed fifteen million dollars
a year, where if Fred Warner had been a corner
or a wide receiver or the right tackle, their books
would look a lot different. And George Kittle, who will
see I mean last year he was clearly banged up.
They show and receiver like the difference of him playing
(42:01):
tight end and wide receiver is probably the difference for
seven eight million dollars a year minimum. So that's not
the case with the Cowboys. Their best players are pass rusher,
wide receiver. We get debated, but I mean, obviously Dak
is one of their best players, quarterback. It's like, gee,
how do we do this? And it becomes a problem,
(42:23):
and it becomes a problem fast financially, now no one
you can be like I always hear media members say this,
like I'm not gonna cry for owners. It's not even
about that. It's like there's a salary cap. You gotta
build your team. That can be very complicated. The volume
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Speaker 1 (02:13):
What is going on? Everybody? John Middlecoff three and out podcast.
Hopefully everyone is having a good little weekend. We're gonna
get back to this because uh we haven't done it
a little while, but we enjoy doing these and put
together just in case you miss some shows, a little
best of and uh to for a little refresher. We
(02:35):
just picked some of the topics of the week and
some of my favorites, some of our producers favorites, and
we just kind of rock with that. So this week
the best of is gonna be Xander Shoffley. I don't
know if you saw, but he won his second major,
joining guys like Tiger Woods and Roy McElroy and Brooks
kept in a special category, Jordan Love and the Packers
(02:58):
awfully interesting little situation brewin in Green Bay, and Brandon
Ayuk he reported to training camp but he's holding in
and Trent Williams is holding out. So we'll kind of
dive into the forty nine ers ongoing saga of star
players who want more money. I mean, let's face it,
who doesn't want more money? But this is the best
(03:20):
of and let's dive right in. But first, if you
want to go to an event like the Open I
saw today Patrick Mahomes roll to his left through a beautiful,
like fifty yard touchdown, you want to go to a
football game. College football isn't that far away. Obviously, Baseball,
you know, if one of your team's still in the mix,
you want to go to playoff games this fall. Can't
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recommend that enough. I've been to countless baseball playoff games,
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Last minute tickets, lowest prices guaranteed. I never understand when
someone gets really close a lot in golf and people go,
he's never gonna win it. When you are consistently in
(04:24):
the top five and the top ten, and you're a
younger player, things are eventually bound to break your way.
And I say it all the time with Rory, who
had it off a week obviously, like if he keeps
putting himself in position, he's gonna win another major. But
unlike Xander, like he has a bunch. Like If him
and Speed and Koepka and some of these guys never
(04:44):
win again, it ultimately doesn't really matter to their resume
because they already have four and five, right, So when
you have a lot of majors, it's it's less pressure
in the sense that your legacy has already cemented as
an all time great champ And then when you get
into a spot like Xander and you have all these
top tens and you don't have a major, people just
(05:06):
start asking the questions. And then at Valhalla he wins
and everyone says, wow, that was really more like a
PGA Tour tournament, right, People are going eighteen twenty under,
that's not your typical major championship, which, listen, I agree
with that the course played easier, But he shot sixty
five on Sunday and he held off Bryce and g
(05:27):
Chambeau who went on to win at Pinehurst, and Victor Hovlin,
who really, for the only time this season looked incredible.
But this week there is no debating he dominated and
the last two days, especially today, I mean to shoot
sixty five was really a special performance by Xander, And
now he has entrenched himself. There's a group. Since two thousand,
(05:50):
I think there's been five players to win multiple majors
in a season. Eldrick Tiger Woods did it four times.
Obviously he's the goat. Koepka has done it, Rory has
done it, Speith has done it, and internet sensation great
Instagram follow Potty Harrington did it as well, and Xander
(06:11):
has joined that company. But here's the thing, Scotty Scheffler
is continually compared to tiger Woods, and rightfully so ya
six champions or six tournament wins. He won the Masters,
He's had a remarkable season because of the per sizes,
He's already won close to thirty million dollars people talk
about as Caddy would be top fifty on the money
list when today ended. Xander Schaffley, without a doubt, has
(06:35):
had a better season like last year. In the NFL,
Lamar Jackson won the MVP. Would anyone say that when
the year ended, you'd rather be Lamar Jackson than Patrick Mahomes.
Of course not. And Scotty Scheffler would trade his season
this year for Xander in a harpeat. In a New
York minute, he wouldn't even flinch to hand all those
(06:59):
wins away for a second major. And now here's the thing,
Like Scotty is viewed as this transcendent talent rightfully. So
the way he's played these last couple of years, he's
got two majors and they just happened to be at
the same place. Zander now is closer to the career
Grand Slam than Scotty Scheffler. Think about that, within two months,
(07:20):
the guy went from zero to two and now is
two majors away. He plays exceptionally well at the US Open.
It is very likely if he maintains this level of
play for the next couple of years, he could easily
win that tournament. And he's also been really successful at Augusta.
So it's not out of the realm possibility that Xander
ends his career. I mean, he's still a younger guy
(07:42):
with the career Grand Slam. Scotty Scheffler has to win
all three of them. So listen, Scotty did not have
it today. He was terrible putting on Saturday today. He
was all over the map. I mean, he had a
shot on eighteen that looked like me or you classic
immediately grabs his back and very disappointing because coming into today,
(08:07):
I think Xander was favored at plus three fifty on
DraftKings and Scotty was like plus three sixty, a couple
shots back. And obviously Scotty kind of derailed today and
Xander put the pedal of the medal and lapped the
field and really the last four or five holes the
tournament was over. And now Xander has I don't want
(08:28):
to say one of the greatest ever because he's got
a long way to go, but solidified himself as right
there with Scotty as the best American player. And for
the first time, and I didn't write down the number
in like forty five to fifty years, the Americans swept
the majors. Now part of it is Xander won two,
Bryson obviously won the US Open, and Scotty won Augusta,
(08:49):
which really kind of leads us those guys like Bryson
should be at the Olympics with Scotti, Xander, and Morikawa.
But regardless, like it was hard to call Xander the
best or the second best American over the last five years,
despite his resume, despite him dominating, despite the money he
was making, despite how consistently awesome he was in the majors.
(09:12):
Not really debatable. And like I said, Scottie Scheffler would
trade his season for Xander Shoffley's tells you all you
need to know. So, like the gap between those two guys,
is there a big gap? Honestly? Is there one? Because
here's the thing with this live the separation of some
of the top guys on the other tour and the
(09:34):
dilution of the PGA Tour, It's still impressive to win
a golf tournament. I don't care if you're playing your
member guest. I don't care if you're playing on the
corn Ferry Tour or a designated event with no cuts.
So I'm not trying to take anything away from Scotty
Scheffler and winning tournaments. That's the goal of everything when
you're a professional golfer. But like, what's the difference in
the two guys? Honestly, you can be like Strokes Gade like,
(09:57):
I don't know. I watched the two in the biggest moments.
I don't see much of a difference, and that speaks
that's not trying to criticize Scotty at all. He's an
elite player. So Xander, I view them basically, especially after
the day, kind of the same guy. And now that
Xander's won a second major, I don't really know how
you argue that, And I think the question is big picture,
especially if Xander were to win a playoff event despite
(10:20):
not having as many wins this season, is Xander the
player of the year, Because what's a major worth relative
to a PGA tournament, Like if we were just trying
to put a number of value on it, five wins,
eight wins, it's gotta be worth at minimum five x
So you could argue this second major victory. Now, Scotty
(10:43):
could still win a couple of tournaments and be the
FedEx champion. But I think they're right there. And if
you wanted to make Xander Shoffley your player of the year,
I wouldn't argue. And I said it coming into this tournament,
like we can't compare Scotty to Tiger, Like those comparisons
died the day, honestly they were dead, Like he was
(11:03):
never Tiger Woods, but he was having a Tiger like season,
the Tiger like seasons, like I said, four times, Tiger
won multiple majors in a season, and Scotty was right
there with like twenty seven thirty fifteen holes to go
and he just didn't have his a game. And listen,
it's golf that happened sometime. But like those comparaions, we
(11:26):
can't do that anymore. And I understand statistically you can
throw some numbers up, but like you cannot have a
conversation with a friend or Bsen at a bar or
on the golf course and bring those two names together,
that can no longer happen. That's not a criticism of
Tiger Woods. It's like comparing someone to Tom Brady or
(11:47):
Joe Montana. You have to be very very in a
very very special category level of accomplishment to even garner
the words to come out of someone's mouth. And it
ended to day at least with this season, and I
think moving forward, as long as this guy's gonna play
this well, you have to capitalize on these major championships.
(12:08):
This is why when we throw out these over unders,
like how many majors is Scotty gonna win? Six to seven?
It's really hard. Now, he might end up winning Augusta
like four or five times, but we've seen him got
very close and the other majors, and he hasn't got
it done and today Xander I put it on overdrive
and Scotty had no shot, and ultimately Xander I don't
(12:29):
want to say benefited, but the group of guys he
was really fending off were Tristan Lawrence, which unless you
follow the DP Tour, no one's heard of, Justin Rose,
who had to qualify to get in, who's one of
the best players of the twenty tens, but he's an
older guy who has not played well lately. Shane Lowry
(12:49):
was kind of, you know, coming falling apart and then
he kind of stormed back and then he fall apart.
And Billy Horschell, who actually played pretty well today but
who's never ever play well in a major really beside,
I think like his first major in twenty thirteen, the
US Open, he has been pretty terrible in them. This
was his first kind of, I don't know, opportunity to
(13:12):
win one of his career really, and he was good,
but he wasn't Xander good, and he's not Xander good.
So I think, listen the world Golf rankings, we know
they're worthless now. I think when you look at it, though,
I'm gonna give Bryson and Rory a little bit of
a pass this week. But I don't see how you
can look at Xander any different than Scottie Scheffler as
(13:35):
of July twenty first, twenty twenty four. You don't like
anyone on your homepage on Instagram, you get all sorts
of crap. And today I saw this clip of Cuban
(13:56):
with Howard Stern. It looked like when Cuban was a
lot younger, so maybe this was ten fifteen years ago.
And Cuban told the story about how when I think
he was acquired his company by Yahoo and they gave
him the stock options, and this was right before the
dot com crash of like ninety nine, two thousand, and
(14:17):
what he essentially did is he put a force sell
on the stock if it hit a certain number not
much higher from what he had, and he hedged his
bet that if it went lower, the puts in the calls,
essentially that he couldn't lose. That he might make a
little less, but under no circumstances was he going to
get bent over and left holding nothing. And a lot
(14:38):
of people did. And Mark Cuban obviously made over two
billion dollars and he said, we had countless people. I
told everyone that was involved with our company to do it.
Some people listened. We had just random employees that made
twenty five thirty million dollars because of it, and we
had people that made basically nothing. And when you have
an astronomical amount of money on the line, I think
(15:00):
you have to be very careful. And when the story
broke this morning, you know you didn't have that much information.
And as time went on and you read Gudikin's quotes,
it's pretty clear. And they've talked about it since OTAs
they are working on a contract right now and it
feels like it's coming down the home stretch. Part of
what Gudakin said today with Jordan Love, we think he
(15:24):
won't miss much time now. Obviously he's not missing any
time in the sense of he's at the building, he's
at the facility, he's there during meetings. But I think
it's fair. If I was going to take an educated guess,
I would imagine this contract's closer to Trevor Lawrence than
it is Kirk Cousins. So you're talking anywhere between one
(15:44):
hundred and fifty two hundred million dollars guaranteed, And I'm sorry,
and the quarterbacks you saw Patrick Mahomes showed up. It's
like pitchers and catchers, they have to get there when
the rookies get there. It's just not worth someone falling
into your leg, use planning weird and tearing an ACL.
There is just too much money on the line. I
always support listen. I'm a supporter of hold ins more
(16:06):
than holdouts, because this is not these other sports, especially baseball,
where you know this team can't pay you. In football,
every team has the money and when you're a high
end player. And we'll get into the the question marks
with Jordan Love, but clearly he showed enough that, like
if he can maintain it, he's a high end player,
especially at his position, teams are gonna want you hold in, like,
(16:28):
do it in good faith negotiation. Negotiating through the media,
I'm sorry, is just kind of stupid in twenty twenty four.
It doesn't work. Nothing like scrubbing your Instagram account. I'm sorry.
No general manager or head coach gives a shit about
your Instagram account. So I give Jordan Love credit. Now,
you could argue he's only a one year starter, He's
(16:48):
really only had half a really good season. Holding out
would be a little extreme, but I definitely completely understand.
You have to take all the risk out of it.
You can't tear it a at some walkthrough because some
overachiever undrafted free agent is trying to be a hero
and get noticed by the defensive line coach and takes
(17:09):
your knee out and I'm sorry. Like there's a cutthroat world.
That's the way the private sector in America works, and
they would yank that bad boy quickly off the table.
So this is the right to me move by his agent,
by him, and it's also a good way to do
it showing this isn't contentious. We're just being smart about
our money because there's just too much on the line.
(17:29):
I say it all the time, like when I won
that bet on Bryson to win eighteen thousand dollars. It
didn't give me that big of a high, partly because
I only had one hundred and fifty dollars on the line.
But if I had had ten thousand dollars to win
eighteen thousand, I would have sweated it a lot more.
And the level in which the numbers were talking about
(17:50):
with these quarterback contracts, and like I said, my guess
would be maybe it's a little under Trevor Lawrence. Even
though here's what I know. If you just look at
these players like stocks, if I had to buy one,
I would buy Jordan Love over Trevor Lawrence. And honestly,
I wouldn't hesitate. I wouldn't even have to think. And
(18:10):
if I was a GM, I wouldn't even have to
hold a meeting. I would one hundred percent take Jordan
Love over Tua. And we're talking about guys. One guy
just signed a big contract, the other guy's talking contract negotiations.
Now there's no debating there is risk involved. Both those
guys have been playing a lot more. We have a
lot longer resume, And part of being a good player
at the highest level in the NFL is doing it
(18:32):
over and over and over and over again. And it's hard,
Like we've all watched the NFL long enough now to
know like there's a reason the great players really the
only thing that slows them down is injury. But how
difficult it is to maintain a Pro Bowl, all pro
level of play Listen, we can nitpick Aaron Rodgers, but
(18:54):
the motherfucker was elite for fifteen straight years. Tom Brady,
Peyton Manning, Like the only thing that slows them. Those
guys down are injuries. We've seen a lot of players
have good years then come back to earth. Matt Ryan,
Cam Newton, Philip Rivers, somewhat up and down. Eli Manning right,
most guys are not elite. And listen, this guy you
could not watch the Packers last year, and I go,
(19:17):
you know, it kind of looks like Aaron Rodgers. I
mean that's kind of the throw Aaron Rodgers used to make.
It's crazy to say that. Listen, I was wrong. I
shorted the situation. I just played the odds. I'm like, wait,
you're telling me you're gonna go from Farv to Rogers.
They literally went from Farv to a guy who's better
(19:39):
than Farv. Like, now you're gonna get another even if
he's not better than Rogers or Farv, another high end guy.
Early on the season, I felt pretty good about my stance.
By the end, I've thrown it out and like, I
kind of like this player I'm in. And I heard
Collins saying this, Listen, part of investing in this situation
is you've been around this guy for four straight years.
(19:59):
You know how he interacts with his teammates, you know
how he studies. You know how he prepares, you have
no question marks, and that while short body of work,
it couldn't have been much more impressive down the stretch.
I mean, we saw him in a game against Dak Prescott.
Dak Prescott just signed a four year, one hundred and
sixty million dollar contract five years ago, and now he
thinks he's gonna get over two hundred million dollars. Who
(20:20):
would you take again, It's not like there's no risk involved.
I got news free. There's risk in everything. Every business,
no matter what you do, has risk involved, even the
most quote unquote you know, recession proof industries, everything that
there are tailwinds here. But you could not tell me
sitting here for the next five years, if you had
to bet on one, Dak's the safer bet. If you
(20:43):
want to stay on the slow lane, I'll go on
the fast lane, I'll probably pass you. And that's what
I think the packers are looking at this, and that's
probably why he's just can't risk someone falling into his
leg over the next Again, based on the quotes I saw,
it feels like this deal's done within the next at
latest seven days, potentially in the next couple days, it's
(21:03):
gonna be a lot of money, but they have to
feel pretty good about their stance. Here's the other thing
Gudikins and Laflor, I mean, part of the thing with
Aaron Rodgers when it got weird was because of this,
because of this guy. Now it feels like Aaron likes
the guy. Obviously, you know, people are just most quarterbacks
(21:23):
should be well liked. They should be guys, guys, they
should get along with a lot of people. And let's
face it, based on the evidence we have, like Gudakins
and the Floor were right. They got rid of the
older quarterback and they went with the younger guy who's
got a chance to be Listen, he's got a long
way to go to win four or five MVPs. I'm
not saying he's gonna be better than Aaron Rodgers, but
(21:45):
he showed signs of Aaron Rodgers. Why. Huge arm athlete, accurate,
great deep ball. Obviously, they are a high level organization.
They draft well, they always have good pieces. I mean
they've had good pieces on offense and Farvo's there. Think
of Roger's time, right from Driver to Greg Jennings to
(22:06):
Jordan Nelson to DeVante Adams, they always got, you know,
running backs, they are always have a pretty solid offensive line.
Defense is somewhat the question mark. They got to figure
that out. But part of that to me is getting
a good defensive coordinator. So listen, I haven't picked my
divisions yet, it's only July twenty second. But and the
only reason I wouldn't pick the Packers because they're in
(22:27):
the division with the Lions. But I like the Packers
a lot, and I like this player a lot. He
blew me away, So I understand Betton on him because
sometimes part of life is you know, there's always risk involved,
but you try to mitigate it. But when I'm a
huge believer in following your gut, and once your gut
(22:48):
you have some evidence, I'm all about pushing your chips
in the middle of the table, like life's if you
want to get anywhere successful, big, wherever you're trying to go,
sometimes you got to have the balls to put it,
you know, all the chips in the middle of the table.
And that's what it feels like the Packers are about
to do with Jordan Loff and then let the cards
fall out they may.
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Speaker 4 (23:55):
Today I got home and I watched the press conference
of John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan, and anyone that saw
Kyle today saw that he shaved off his mustache.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
I tried to trim up and do a mustache, but
my mustache just does not come in full. And as
Kyle said, the thing when you become a mustache guy.
You It just brings your respect because someone has to
have an opinion, whether they like it or they don't.
They look at you weird, but it creates a motion
with people when they see you. I tried to pull
it off, could not. But the big news out of
(24:29):
forty nine ers Land today is that Brandon Nyuk is
attending training camp. Now they've had this happen before with
Deebo Samuel. He did not practice. And I think it's
pretty clear. I've been in enough negotiations in my life
to know the older you get and all sorts you know,
with high level billion dollar companies and startups that you
(24:51):
were hoping would be that turned out not to be
and went under. Is that anytime negotiations get shady, and
for most of us the these aren't public negotiations, but
anytime that you feel that shady stuff is going on,
it's harder to get a deal done. Now in a
public forum like the NFL, to me, that's the equivalent
(25:13):
of using the media. And I understand Brandon. This is
his first big contract. He's very emotional and he used
the media up several times and the last one to
request a trade. I've said this all the time. This
is not the NBA. Teams don't capitulate to your demands immediately.
In that the forty nine ers don't give a shit.
(25:35):
No one cares when you scrub your Instagram account, No
one cares when you tell one of the national reporters
you request the trade. It does, especially in the middle
of the summer. It doesn't actually do anything. The easiest
way to get a deal done, and players like Brandon
Aiyuk are players that their team wants to get a
deal done with is to play ball. And the easiest
(25:57):
way to play ball is good faith and gociations. And
the way you do that as a player is you
show up a training camp. Now you don't have to
get on the field. Look at Jordan Love, I'm not
risking getting injured. For Jordan Love, that could be one
hundred and fiftye hundred and eighty two hundred million dollars.
For Brandon Ayuk that could be sixty seventy million dollars guaranteed.
I totally get it. I support guys that want to
(26:20):
hold in, but younger players, I think this is the
way to go, especially when you know the team financially
plans on paying you these negotiations are tough. We're talking
a lot of money. Most teams just don't hand out
that type money, especially when they have a ton of
other guys under contract. And it's complicated. But I promise
you this, and John Lynch reiterated this today. We plan
(26:43):
on this guy being a forty nine er. We want
him on the team. Of course they do. He's a
winning player. They have won a ton the last couple
of years with him being their number one outside option.
But once you get down to in any negotiation the hour,
I think Brandon Ayuk and the forty nine ers have
(27:03):
to kind of draw a line in the sand. Are
we gonna let this deal pass over a total of
five million dollars right? A million extra a year to
bump that number from twenty six and a half to
twenty eight right over a four year period or whatever.
Anyone that's ever bought a house or sold a house,
or sold a car, or sold any asset, you get
(27:24):
to a port a certain time in the negotiation where
emotions are high. I don't care if you're selling something
worth a thousand dollars or two million dollars, like you
get emotional over things, and I think you see this
a lot in real estate. Are we gonna let this
deal go over five thousand dollars? Are we gonna let
this deal go over ten thousand dollars? This is a
one point eight million dollar transaction. And that's where I
(27:47):
think the forty nine ers and Brandon Ayuk are kind
of looking at each other, you know, from across the
negotiation table. But we're close, and we got to get
this figured out. Someone's gonna blink. And I think the
reality is is that Brandon Ayuk through his last curve
ball the trade request, and he realized those guys don't
(28:08):
give a shit. They simply do not. That's the National
Football League. If I don't want to trade you, and
I like you, and you're emotionally charged up and you
want to trade, I just yeah, see a training camp.
And that's essentially what the forty nine ers said. And
I give him credit. He showed up, because the easiest
way to get this deal done is doing exactly what
(28:29):
he did, show up. George Kittle had a great line
today that he said Richard Sherman told him contract negotiations
are a lot like bracist. They suck when they're on,
just like they suck when you're going through a negotiation,
but once they're off, once the deal is signed, you
forget that you even went through it. You have a
(28:51):
big smile on your face. And that's what's happening here.
It happened last year with Nick Bosa, it happened a
couple of years ago with Deebo Samuel. The forty nine ers.
To me, the only team that's truly championship or bust
is the Chiefs because they're the only team rattling off championships.
But like the forty nine, or is anything less than
winning the NFC and being back in the Super Bowl
(29:12):
with a chance to win it is a major, major disappointment.
And I'm on a bunch of text threads with Niner people.
The reality of even the potential trade is any team
trading a first round pick, and let's face, the forty
nine is probably gonna want more. I would say at
minimum they'd want like a one and a three and
then giving him one hundred and twenty million dollar contract.
(29:35):
I don't know. I would say probably not. I think
teams would be willing to acquire them, like the Tennessee
Titans traded for what's his name snead on the Chiefs,
they trade a third round pick. The New York Giants
traded for Brian Burns, and then they both paid those
guys a lot of money. They didn't even give it
a first round pick. So yeah, teams are open to
(29:56):
making deals for good players, but at what costs? Because
I know I have to pay them. But what type
draft capital do I have to use? The other thing?
Draft capital? Right now, as we see here on July
twenty third, with the season upon us and in front
of us, does the forty nine ers no good? It's
actually completely irrelevant. Having that draft capital for a player
(30:20):
that you're going to select in the spring of twenty
twenty five does nothing for you. Trying to win the division,
trying to beat the Rams, the Lions, the Eagles, the
Packers in the playoffs, and then probably the Chiefs in
the Super Bowl does nothing. And that's why they have
no intention of trading them, just trying to get the
deal worked out. I did know a podcast yesterday and
(30:44):
news broke that the best left tackle in the NFL
is officially holding out. Now, I had to take a
couple of days ago in regards to another player they
have who's holding in that. I thought it was the
right move and Auk. They've had a very contentious off season.
He's been very emotional. Feels like he's requested seven trades,
(31:07):
posted eighty million things on social media and has been
all over the map, and John and Kyleer are like, yeah, see,
you can't, buddy. We got an offer on the table
and that's still materializing. There was just a video from
my guy, Matt Barrows of like him walking into John
Lynch's office I think after practice, so clearly they're trying
to get it done well. Today. Probably a little bit
(31:28):
of an issue for Brandon Ayuk that he's no longer
the priority because Trent Williams is one of those rare
guys that is objectively agreed upon from the analytical community,
from the itest fan community, from the scouting community, from
the coaching community, and most importantly the other players his peers,
(31:51):
best left tackle in the game, non quarterback, easily one
of the best players in the game. And it's not
like he's in the prime of his career. He's like
thirty five years old. He wants more money. In my
initial take, don't blame him at all. Had the same
take earlier this offseason, when Christian McCaffrey said the same thing,
under no circumstances can I play if I'm Trent Williams
and I'm the fifth highest paid left tackle, And honestly,
(32:13):
these left tackle numbers per year feel a little off
because who's more important? If the forty nine ers this
year had to choose one player, Brandon Ayuk or Trent Williams,
and listen, this is not a criticism of Brandon. He's
an awesome player, he's a winning player. He deserves to
be paid a lot of money. I can promise you this.
John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan wouldn't even hesitate. It would
(32:36):
be Trent or Trent Williams. Now, ultimately they don't have
to make that decision. They get to keep them both.
But what happened with Christian McCaffrey, It's like, well, I
no longer have guaranteed money. You didn't sign me to
this contract. I'm scheduled to make like eleven million dollars,
I'm sorry, that's laughable, And they bumped him up and
it's like eighteen nineteen million dollars this year, rightfully, so
good move. If I'm Trent Williams won this contract that
(32:59):
I'm currently playing on is what I got. The forty
nine Ers gave him this contract because he had hit
free agency several years ago, and it actually came down
to a bidding between Andy Reid and the Chiefs and
the forty nine ers and the forty nine ers, I mean,
they had no choice. They had to give him a
large amount of money I think at the time was
(33:20):
sixty million dollars guaranteed, which seems like peanuts now twenty
a year, which again, if I'm Trent Williams and I
get like, comp's work for ninety percent of players like
this guy got this. This is what you get. He's
a little better, You're a little worse. You're you're a
little better, he's a little worse. And it's all based
on that. There are certain players in this league, a
(33:40):
guy like Trent Williams where I go, I don't really
give a shit. If you really want me to play
this year, I have no guaranteed money, like this is
my number. Maybe it's twenty eight million dollars, so I'm
gonna need an eight million dollar race like that's got
to happen. Now. I went to years of practices with
Trent Williams involved. Training camp for him isn't exactly the junction, boys,
(34:03):
This isn't exactly nineteen fifty nineteen sixty role tied Alabama
Bear Bryant. Listen, he's one of those guys who probably
could play an NFL game three hundred and sixty five
days a year. So training camp for him, I'm not
saying it's not necessary. Of course it's necessary for any player,
but he ain't repping every single practice. He gets a
(34:24):
lot of days off, he gets a lot of plays off.
They treat him like they should. One of the most
valuable assets, who's an older player who they need. And
the only thing when it comes to Trent Williams is
like Week one, he's on my left tackle and we
want him healthy. But listen, when you're at his level,
you got leverage because you need me more than I
(34:46):
need you. I'm super rich, I've made a boatload of money.
Now I'm a great player. I like playing football, and
I'm planning on playing football, hopefully for the niners sake
the next couple of years, because they have a zero
answer at that position, and it's not like they're gonna
be flush with cash because they're paying all these other
guys to go sign a left tackle, and let's face it,
left tackles never hit the open market. Who were any good.
(35:07):
It was very rare that Trent Williams was even in
that position, But I don't blame him. And if I
was him, I'd ask for a massive race and they go,
what about all these I don't Christian Darisow, If I
was Trent Williams, I'd be like, who's that?
Speaker 4 (35:22):
What?
Speaker 1 (35:25):
I compare myself to Jonathan Ogden, to a Walter Jones,
Like that's the way I'm discussed, not like the hot
young commodity in the NFL, and that's like, this is
going to be a complicated. This is part of what
makes this job so difficult. It's why I've said forever
I give John Lynch a lot of credit for doing this.
(35:47):
Just like when Steve Kerr signed up, he was already
super rich, he was already super successful, he had a
bunch of rings and he's like, you know what I
want to coach? Now you could say it was a
great situation, it is still a lot of added stress
that is not there if you're not doing it. And
John Lynch same thing. Already a champion. Now he's in
the Hall of Fame. He had a great job at Fox,
(36:11):
was making seven figures. And he's like, you know what
I want to do deal with Brandon Ayuk's agent when
I'm on vacation. You know what I want to do?
Show up to training camp and have to deal with
my star future Hall of Fame left tackle who needs
a massive raise, and I have to balance all the
books that we already have a high praise. Like, I'm sorry,
most human beings would not want to do that, but
(36:33):
he's just one of those guys that likes his feet
in the fire. He likes the action. You know, the
juice is the squeeze, right, So I just think that
this team, like all these guys, high level winning players,
most people are gonna pick this team if you're not
picking him to be in the super Bowl, to be
right there in the mix, you know, in the final four,
final two in the NFC. But this type of stuff
(36:56):
you deal with year after year. You guys that want money, Right,
It's like, what and how we have happened this offseason?
Like Hassan Reddick's like, I want to raise now, I'm
not comparing Asano Reddick to Trent Williams was like, we
don't want that headache, see you. Joe Douglas is like, yeah,
I'll take that headache. And I don't even plan to
pay him. So it's just training camp. Man. I always thought,
(37:17):
like the season, you know, I've never been as stressed out.
Now I'm a high anxiety guy to begin with, Like
just my blood, you know, runs hot. I would say,
like most people or else you die. But you know
what I mean, I run hot. That stress of training camp,
of guys getting injured, of working out guys, of guys
(37:39):
not living up to the hype, of people being angry
players just it's it's a stressful time there is. You
have to monitor the league like crazy because guys are
constantly getting cut. Like once the season starts. The structure
of the season is very mapped out. Obviously you might
play on a Thursday or Sunday night or Monday, but
like every week's kind of the same, and if you
(38:01):
have one injury, you just work out one position. It's
kind of a fire drill during training camp. And let's
face it, the forty Niners got a lot going on.
I mean the Cowboys got a lot going on. But
they always got a lot going on. And in fairness,
like Dallas is choosing not to extend Dak Prescott right now,
the forty dine Ers want Trent Williams to be happy.
They want Brandon Ayuk to be happy. I wonder if
(38:22):
the Cowboys are like, yeah, let's just see how Dak responds.
Let's see if he can answer the bell, because he
has in the last three years. And I think when
you look at the Cowboys, Ceedee Lamb, you know, let's
face it, Ceedee Lamb does not view himself in Brandon
Ayuke's category, right, He just does not. He views himself
with Justin Jefferson. Now, whether that's correct or not, we're
(38:45):
talking an astronomical amount of money that he I'm sure
is seeking. And this gets pretty complicated. And I started
thinking today actually, when I was driving home from Tahoe,
maybe the Cowboys plan is this, we go all in. Obviously,
we're gonna have to pay ceed Lamb Micah Parsons a
ton of cash and that is a huge part of
our core moving forward, and we'll figure out the quarterback.
(39:07):
And then I thought, isn't that kind of what the
Raiders are doing right now? They got Max Crosby, who's
a star. They got DeVante Adams who's like a Hall
of Famer, and they have no quarterback, and no one
really takes them that seriously, right that they have really
good players at a bunch of different positions. But I
don't think you'll meet a soul who's not a Raider
fan who would pick them to make the playoffs, because
(39:29):
how could you. They don't have a quarterback. And I
just this is the hard part about the Dallas situation.
And this is why when you get the Dak Prescott's
you saw it forever in Minnesota with Kirk Cousins, you
just kind of keep riding it out cause you are
terrified to ever be in a position where it's like, guy,
we got some sweet All Pro impact players, it's like, oh,
(39:51):
who's your quarterback. You're like ain O'Connell, Gardner Minshew, You're like,
you're not winning shit. That's kind of the way it goes.
And I could if you were Dallas because it's easy.
And listen, I've said it, like just move on, let
him hit free agency. It's easy to say that. And
he's got flaws clearly in January, but he's still better
than most, and what would they do, Like, it's like,
(40:13):
what's their answer gonna be? Trey Lance? Kyle Shanahan couldn't
get rid of him quick enough. Kyle Shanahan had bailed
on Trey Lance like eighteen months ago, so that's not
an option. Yeah, and I know they're gonna play him
a bunch this preseason, but he's just not that good.
It's just just a fact of life. So to me,
when you look at the Cowboys, you go feels like
(40:33):
they're kind of stuck and it could be one of
those positions like if they just win a playoff games
like oh, Dak threw multiple interceptions in the second round,
say okay, let him hit free agency and then what
are you doing? Because there aren't really any options ever.
And this s where Ceedee Lamb kind of has him
by the balls like he's gonna get a ton of money.
(40:53):
It's like Micah Parsons, same thing, gonna get a ton
of money, like a ton of money. It's like, well,
Das Scott because of the position he plays. Even if
we all agree that he's not Josh Allen, he's not
Mahomes obviously not. Lamar still is going to command what
two hundred and ten million dollars guaranteed, So the three
of those guys would have sent it'd be like an
(41:15):
NBA team. He'd be like, Yeah, we got three or
four guys and a bunch of other minimum players and
draft p picks. That's kind of what the Cowboys would
have to do because of the positions those guys play.
It's one thing I've always said about the Niners. They've
gotten very lucky that two of their best players are
you know, over the last four years that are on
huge contracts are a middle linebacker and a tight end.
(41:38):
And those guys value like doesn't exceed fifteen million dollars
a year, where if Fred Warner had been a corner
or a wide receiver or the right tackle, their books
would look a lot different. And George Kittle, who will
see I mean last year he was clearly banged up.
They show and receiver like the difference of him playing
(42:01):
tight end and wide receiver is probably the difference for
seven eight million dollars a year minimum. So that's not
the case with the Cowboys. Their best players are pass rusher,
wide receiver. We get debated, but I mean, obviously Dak
is one of their best players, quarterback. It's like, gee,
how do we do this? And it becomes a problem,
(42:23):
and it becomes a problem fast financially, now no one
you can be like I always hear media members say this,
like I'm not gonna cry for owners. It's not even
about that. It's like there's a salary cap. You gotta
build your team. That can be very complicated. The volume
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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