August 21, 2024 • 31 mins
Colin agrees with Browns HC Kevin Stefanski when he said Patrick Mahomes is changing football like Steph Curry changed basketball but points out the biggest thing people often don't give both Mahomes and Curry credit for. He updates his NFL predictions for the upcoming season with a new playoff team in the AFC. He also talks to Greg Cosell from NFL Films to breakdown what we've seen from Bo Nix, Michael Penix and Daniel Jones
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
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Speaker 2 (00:20):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Ah, here we go on a Wednesday, live in Los Angeles.
It's the Hurt wherever you may be and however you
may be listening, Thanks for making us part of your day.
We're bringing Greg co Sell on our last hour today,
sort of starting our Greg co Sell for twenty two
to twenty three weeks or thereabouts. He's going to go
(00:48):
through some of the young quarterbacks, what he sees, what
he doesn't. Jamac this my last day for a while,
coming back, you know, labor dash around there, and you're
going to control some of the like you take over
after the ship.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Some of the stuff. Oh, I'm in total consola.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
This thing's going off the rails instantly. So I want
to talk. Kevin Stefanski's the coach the Cleveland Browns. He's
a really good coach, and he's dealt with some ownership
stuff and the Baker stuff, and he's a really really
good coach. I think he's one of the only two
or three coaches in the NFL. It's an ivy leaguer.
I think he went to pen or something. Really smart guy.
I love the way he calls a game and to
(01:28):
you know, dealing with the nonsense he's dealt with. He
and Andrew Berry the GM are obviously know what they're doing.
So he was talking about Patrick Mahomes and I sometimes
because the NBA is a star league and the NFL
is more about the shield and the team, I think
we forget just how big of a star Patrick Mahomes is.
One hundred and twenty three million people watch the Super Bowl,
(01:48):
you know, that game that Mahomes keeps getting into and
mostly winning. The Olympic ratings for basketball, well, the highest
ratings for any basketball game in a year got twenty million.
He get a six times that for one game. So anyway,
Stefanski is talking about Mahomes's style and how people are
copying it.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
You know, it's funny, like it's almost you know, Steph
Curry changed basketball I think Mahomes is changing football. You're
watching quarterbacks come out and play that style that they
comport themselves like him. So I would not be surprised
if you start seeing that around, certainly our league. You're
gonna see kids in high school trying it. Now, they
better complete it. They're going to hear from their head coach.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
You know. It's interesting. Most overwhelmingly, ninety percent of the
greatest players ever other star athletes don't mimic There's not
a lot of Peyton Manning copycats or Tom Brady copycats.
Now Aaron Rodgers and Mahomes. Stylistically, you see guys throwing
off platform no look passes, they get mimicked. Steph Curry
(02:51):
gets mimicked. Nobody tried the skyhook with Kareem Lebron didn't
change the game. He was just great. A lot of guys,
most players don't change the game. They're just really productive
and they win, even the great ones. Nobody's copying Tim Duncan.
But I always think there's a certain audacity to the
way Mahomes and Steph Curry plays, and Stefanski says they're
kind of the same. They change the game, and I
(03:11):
do believe that's true with both Mahomes and Steph Curry.
And I also think there's a joyfulness and a playfulness
to their style. But whenever you're just great, right, I
think sometimes it overshadows fundamentals. When I think of Steph Curry,
(03:31):
you know what I think of his pregame routine. It's
the most intense in the league. I've had multiple coaches
I've talked to about Steph Curry. They're like, you have
no idea how hard he works, and then you watch
the games. Has there ever been a player in league
history that works as hard as Steph Curry to get
his shot? And Patrick Mahomes last year yards per attempt
(03:54):
he was nineteenth. Mahomes has become a great quarterback better
since Tyreek Hill left. Neither one's rigid. They can play
in multiple styles with multiple teammates. I always said Steph
Curry was willing to play with Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony
was threatened by Jeremy Lynn. I like Trey Young a lot,
(04:18):
but he can't get along with de Jon Taint Murray.
Come on, man, It's like part of the greatness of
Mahomes and Curry. They never get in their own way.
Mahomes has virtually no ego. He's making fifty million a year,
forty endorsements, beautiful wife. Literally, he laughs that the dad
(04:42):
bod jokes. He laughs at it. He's not insecure about it,
he's not threatened by it. Takes a shirt off, take
a picture, he laughs at it. He lets the cameras
in Netflix to his house. He laughs at sort of
the dysfunction, by the way, dysfunction we all have in
our lives. He just laughs at it. No insecurity. Steph
Curry comes out with shoes. Remember those shoes, that shoe line.
It's like that's what pharmacists wear in the gut. He
(05:05):
laughs at it. They're so secure in themselves they never
get in their own way. And I could there's so
many great stars out there. Once once you're great and
you're stylish and great, you don't get credit for your IQ,
your EQ, your coachability, your self awareness, not stepping on others' toes.
(05:27):
And I think, I hope we all realize Steph Curry
is the hardest working guy in the league. Nobody's ever
worked harder to get a shot, fight through screens, nobody.
And that's what I think about when I think of
him is that pregame workout. And look at what Mahomes
has done since Tyreek Hill left. He wasn't rigid, he
didn't try to force it. He's like all think and
dunk and he wins back to back Super Bowls. So
(05:49):
I think a lot of times it gets overshadowed. All
you kids want to copy these guys, just to let
you know, it's the lack of ego, coachability and the
fundamentals and the work ethic that creates this. Nobody comes
out of the womb looking like Stephen Mahomes. You got
to put the hours in. So I thought it was interesting.
Aaron Rodgers, you know, I'll say this for Aaron Rodgers.
(06:12):
He talks, he's great content, He's not ducking anybody. I
always appreciated that. I'm never going to criticize a guy
that's always available. He didn't hide from anybody, and he
did talk yesterday. He was talking about this has been
a tough camp for him. I imagine camps get tougher
as you get older. This is an interesting bite.
Speaker 5 (06:31):
I would say the camp is much harder this year,
and maybe the hardest in the last seven or eight.
Speaker 6 (06:37):
In my career.
Speaker 5 (06:38):
Some of the older guys enjoy the uh to steal
a coaching word, the callous part of training camp where
you're kind of grinding, and some people believe that that
although it puts more you know, strain on you in
training camp, that actually gets you more ready to play
when the season starts. And then some people believe the opposite,
(06:59):
and you know how go whatever teams are having success,
people kind of look at their schedule and go, let's
do that.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
He's right, but it is interesting. One of the things
I love about the NFL is the opposite of baseball.
They don't romanticize anything like year to year. Nobody cares,
do your job. Championship parade, Brady gets a little loopy
in Tampa, almost throws the trophy into the pond, and
then it's like, all right, see in two weeks, let's
get back to work. And that's what I love about it.
(07:27):
It's about the grind. It's not about romanticizing the fifties, sixties, seventies.
Nobody cares. I mean, think about this, just in one year.
One year with the Jets, Aaron's gone from the savior
basically saying I want Alan Lazard, Randall cobb inat Hackett
getting kind of what he wants, calling the shots in
the organization. And one year later, Robert Slis called him
(07:51):
out at a press conference and find him. When Aaron
was gone, somebody else, not Nat Hackett called the plays
in camp. He's now viewed as a liability. They've brought
in new receivers to push Alan Lazard down the depth
chart and training camp. Aaron saying it is absolutely no cakewalk.
It's been brutal. And what a difference a year makes.
(08:13):
I mean, the first year for Aaron in the NFL
in New York was a parade celebrating Aaron's arrival, and
that's what it was. This year it's a military march.
And if you don't achieve your goals, it's failure. And
that's what it feels like. Just to give you an example,
(08:34):
and we all know Aaron's going to be a Hall
of Famer, Just to give you an example, this thing
could go off the rails quickly. They may lose to
San Francisco, but what if they lost to Will Levis
or a Sam Darnold or a Jacoby Brissett. This thing
could turn fast. Just to show you how little we
romanticize football and that how every year is different. I've
(08:58):
been saying this with Aaron. Stop falling in love with
his last great year. The last time Aaron was truly
great was three years ago. Here's what was happening in
the NFL. Just three years ago, Trey Lance and Jimmy
g were the Niners quarterbacks. The Lions were three thirteen
and one and a dysfunctional mess. We thought mac Jones
(09:19):
was a pro bowler, and the Titans were the number
one seed in the AFC. They're now lost as a franchise.
The last time Aaron Rodgers was great, so you're like, woa,
that stuff feels like a decade ago. Mac Jones was
a pro bowler. They couldn't give him away this offseason,
couldn't give him away, So nobody really cares. Ian O'Connor,
(09:43):
who wrote the book that just came out two days
ago on Aaron, says they struggled this year. They're all
getting swept out.
Speaker 7 (09:50):
I do think if the Jets are two and five,
this could really go south and get ugly in a hurry,
because he's lost some of that good will from Jets fans.
Speaker 8 (10:00):
They loved him last year.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
New York City fell in love with Aaron like I've
never seen the city fall in love with a superstar.
If they're having a losing season, first of all, everyone's
getting fired. Sala's getting fired, Packets getting fired, Joe Douglas
is getting fired, and Aaron might get fired. Woody Johnson
loves having a star quarterback. If Aaron plays a decent
level of football and they have a losing season, it's
(10:22):
possible what he will bring him back with the new coach,
But chances are if they don't make the playoffs. Rogers
is out of the building with everyone else.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Yep. And last year it was a victory parade when
he showed it, showed up celebrating his arrival. It is
now a military march. Here's the goal, get it or failure.
And that's why it should be and that's why football
is great. Three years feels like twenty years, like nobody cares.
Mac Jones makes a Pro Bowl. Two years later, Boom,
give him away a six round pick, go to Jacksonville.
(10:53):
That's the league. J mattgreg co Sell stops by today
in forty five minutes. I'm gonna give you I have
made some alterations. I've watched the preseason. I've made a
couple of alterations to my NFL divisional predictions. The fourteen
playoff teams got a couple out, couple new in whatever, so.
And then then I go on a little vak a
little it's work. It's labor intensive. It would be working
(11:15):
the entire time.
Speaker 6 (11:16):
Will you be doing our fantasy draft while you're on vacation.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
No, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
I won't.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Oh, okay, well you know, I gotta say hi to annacasion.
He's gonna do auto draft. That is that the game
I'm not given. It is crazy, though, to go back
to the Patrick Mahomes thing, like, think of how big
he is in America. One hundred and twenty three million
people keep watching him win super Bowls, and honestly, he
(11:42):
could go sideways so fast. He never gets in trouble.
He's the nicest guy. He always says the right thing
at the podium, totally secure. He's got a little bit
of a dysfunctional family, doesn't matter. Laughs at the Dad bod,
Steph Curry, same thing there. I mean there has been
the Draymond Green stuff, Jordan Pooles, the Clay Thompson drama,
the Kevin durant stuff. Steph Curry never gets in his
(12:05):
own way, Mahomes. Think of all the stuff Mahomes and
Curry have dealt with, Take a deep breath, talk when necessary,
don't inflame situations.
Speaker 6 (12:18):
I think it helps that both of them had, you know,
parents who were pro athletes, and they got to see
that growing up.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Well smart parents.
Speaker 6 (12:25):
Yeah, I mean, you know, mahomes dad baseball player, Curry's
dad NBA player, Like how to be a professional in
the locker room, you know, Like.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
That's what matters a lot, it does.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
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Speaker 1 (12:43):
Okay, so I'm gonna I get two more. This is
gonna be one. I get two more opportunities before the
season starts. I'm gonna do one on the Thursday before
the opening NFL game, and I'm gonna do one now
is that I've watched the preseason, I'm reading, like you everything,
and I'm gonna give you a sense of where I
feel with my playoffs. So I've made a couple of changes,
couple of minor changes, but they're changes and I'll give
(13:05):
you the reason why. So let's start with the AFC.
I still feel it's Bill's Dolphins, Jets, Patriots. I know
more about the Dolphins than I do the Jets. I
know they'll be wildly productive on offense. Offense is Gary
over if you don't make big wholesale changes, A good
offense one year is a good offense the next year.
It's not the same for defense. Jets. Hassan Redicks not
(13:27):
in camp. Huff's gone a lot of noise. I think
it's Bill's Dolphins, Jets, Patriots. AFC North. I don't know
if there's a great team. I'm out on the Steelers.
Brown's ownership quarterback scares me. It's Ravens Bengals. I may
revisit this. I'm going to go listen Lamar Jackson's health.
I trust him to be healthy by week seventeen, even
(13:48):
though he's had injuries more than Joe Burrow. But if
Joe Burrow is upright for the entire season, Cincinnati may
win this division. AFC South. I feel really good about
my pick now. I really like the Texans. I like
everything about what they're Jaguars best roster. I believe Trevor
Lawrence has had and he is healthy. I still don't
know if Anthony Richardson's style last in this league. Titans,
(14:10):
I don't think are very good. AFC West. Here's the thing,
Kansas City should be better at wide receiver. The Chargers
worry me now because Denver, I think is better faster
with bow nixt than I thought, and I thought it
was gonna work. I'm a little worried about Justin Herbert.
I got Jmack in my ear. So my division winners
(14:30):
in the AFC remain the Bills, Ravens, Texans, Chiefs. But
I'm going to move the Dolphins into the playoffs and
the Chargers out because the Dolphins give me things. I know,
Tua Waddle, Tyreek, Mike McDaniel, those running backs. Remember, Great
offenses carry over year to year. Great defenses don't. There's
(14:54):
just too many unknowns now with the Chargers, Herbert's health,
their receiving corps. I just don't know, and so I'm
going to have for the time being Chargers last team out.
Dolphins are in in the NFC. I've told you, Eagles, Commanders, Cowboys, Giants.
I think Dallas misses the playoff. I think the Commanders
(15:15):
are the shock of the league. I'll get to that
in a second. Here's my big change, and it's pretty subtle. Packers, Lions, Bears, Vikings.
I'm gonna flip Packers and Lions. When the Packers played
the Lions the second time and Jordan Love had experience,
they beat Detroit. I know the Lions have a better
offensive line, the depth of offensive talent, and the coaching
(15:37):
and the quarterback mobility of Green Bay is better. I'm
gonna go with a young, ascending team in my opinion,
the better head coach, the better quarterback talent, and a
loaded stack roster of receiver and tight end talent. Lions
still make the playoffs. Bears are going to be exciting,
but it's a hell of a division. Vikings the best
(15:59):
fourth in the league NFC South. I think Atlanta's gonna
run away with it. I think Atlanta's gonna win potentially
twelve to thirteen games. I really do. I really like Atlanta.
I say that being lighter in the wall at my
entire adult life on Falcons games, Bucks are good, not
as good as Atlanta. Panthers are going to be fun
to watch, much better at wide receiver still third. Saints
(16:23):
will be a mess. I think they're the first team
to fire their coach. And in the NFC West I
said last year, I think they're leaning too much on McCaffrey.
What's the situation on Brandon IU? Will Trent Williams be ready?
I think the Jets could beat him in Week one.
I think they pull back a little. I think they
have peaked physically. They'll be good, they won't be as special. Seahawks,
I think are interesting, a bit of a mystery team
(16:44):
to me. Arizona four So in the division winner category, Eagles, Packers, Falcons, Rams, Lions, Commanders, Niners.
Of the wild card teams, I'm just gonna take a
little younger team in green Bay. I like every thing
about where green Bay is going right now. I also
think they have a history of winning, and I think
(17:05):
Detroit doesn't. And now Detroit Scott from Detroit's gone from
the hunter to the hunted, and I'm not sure how
they're gonna deal with that. They've never been that now,
even last year they were the hunter. Now the Lions
are the hunted.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
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Speaker 9 (17:24):
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Would mean a lot to have you join us on
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You're asking, what in God's name is the Fifth Hour.
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Speaker 1 (17:53):
So Greg Cosell has been working forty five years at
NFL Films. He joins us live. There's some please and
stuff that's interesting. I've said before there's one or two
things that have jumped out to me. So one of
the things that's jumped out to me is Bonnicks. I've
seen you know, six seven drives. He just I mean, listen,
you can watch guys in any line of work and
you go that person knows what he's doing. It doesn't
(18:16):
guarantee he's gonna win twelve games. But I'm watching the
kid moves accurate, clearly, clearly cognitively, He's in and out
of plays fast. I mean, what is your take on
what you're seeing with Plus Sean Payton helps as well.
Speaker 10 (18:33):
Yeah, And I think one thing you notice with Nix
is he looks very similar to what he did at Oregon.
He looks in control. He's a quick rhythm thrower, not
a big gun, but he can run your offense. And
one of the things that maybe a lot of people
Colin are not aware of is he called all the
protections at Oregon and that is a big positive stepping
stone as you make the transition to the NFL. And actually,
(18:56):
we just see this throw at Courtland Sutton. That's also
an example of on Peyton because what Sean Payton does
so well is he creates route combinations that really define
the reads and the throws for the quarterback. So Nis
really only has to read one defender. He doesn't have
to go through a lengthy process to figure things out,
and that's where coaching comes into play. But you're one
(19:18):
hundred percent right. He looks like a very comfortable quarterback.
And the other thing I noticed he was better in
the second preseason game than the first. The first preseason game,
he showed a little bit of a tendency to break
down too quickly in the pocket, and guys that can
move have a tendency to do that, particularly when they
get to the NFL, when the game's a little faster.
(19:39):
Even though it's preseason, the game's still a little faster.
I thought in the second preseason game he was a
little more comfortable. But clearly it's been a positive. But
he looks like he did at Oregon.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Uh, Caleb Williams speaking of moving, we know he can
do that. You know, the criticism was he can be
a little bit of an ad liver. What have you
seen so far?
Speaker 10 (19:59):
Yeah, I actually I thought the first throw of the preseason,
which was third and twelve, was to me, his best play.
We know he can make that throw to a Dounday
running to his left, and again that's clearly special. I'm
not saying it's not special, but the first throw that
he made in the preseason on third and twelve, that
was an example where he looked to his right, he
had to come back to his left based on the coverage,
(20:21):
and he read it out, stayed in the pocket and
delivered the ball to DJ Moore.
Speaker 8 (20:26):
There's learning plays as well. Colin.
Speaker 10 (20:28):
There was a play in this last preseason game where
the design of the play worked and he had Pettis
wide opened down the seam. But you know what he did, Williams,
which he had a tendency to do in college. He
climbed the pocket for no reason. There was no reason
for him to do that, and he created his own sack.
That's a learning play. You want to see those plays
(20:49):
in the preseason. Coaches want to see those plays because
then they can teach because don't forget, he was sacked
at USC.
Speaker 8 (20:56):
Didn't have a great old line.
Speaker 10 (20:57):
We know that, but he was sacked over eighty times
in two years at USC, and many of those were
on him, not just the old line. So that's the
learning part that coaches want to see. It's not a
negative to say that. In many ways, it's a positive
because you want to work through those things in the preseason.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Jaden Daniels I liked him in college.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
I like him.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Now what say you? What do you see?
Speaker 10 (21:20):
Yeah, another guy that looks really really comfortable dropping back
throwing the ball, doesn't look to get out of the pocket.
I think what stood out because he played far more
snaps in his second preseason game was just a ball placement.
He was able, and again these were not necessarily long throws.
But again it's the routine throws that you have to make.
Kurt Warner talks about that all the time, and he's right.
(21:42):
You can't miss the layups in the National Football League
as a quarterback. So it's all about ball placement and
it has to be precise, and Daniels showed that his
last year at LSU. He's shown that early on in
these preseason games, and that's something you can take away
that has nothing to do with what the coverage might
be or if they're blitzing or not blitzaying. You want
(22:02):
to see a quarterback lay the ball. Look at this
throw that was in the first game, and I believe
the audible to that play. You want to see the
precise ball location because you just can't miss layups in
this league.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Yeah, Michael Penix didn't play much. They sat him, they
made they made just they may just say, Greg, we
just don't we're gonna we saw JJ McCarthy. We're sitting
him down. Is that worry at all?
Speaker 8 (22:26):
No, not at all.
Speaker 10 (22:27):
Again, he played in the first preseason game and I thought, again,
this is not an ex and no statement, but Colin,
you've looked at quarterbacks like I have for a long time.
He just looked comfortable. He knew where to go with
the football. He did not play fast. He understood the
route concepts. He understood the coverage when it was one
on one working to the outside here on the vertical route.
(22:48):
He knew when to go to a checkdown within the
timing of the play.
Speaker 8 (22:51):
He just looked like a professional quarterback.
Speaker 10 (22:53):
Now he's obviously not going to play, assuming everything is
fine with Kirk Cousins. And I'm sure through training camp
in the first preseason game, they felt they saw what
they needed to see. But Pennix, I think, look, people
kind of rip the Falcons when they made that pick,
But in their mind, right or wrong, they now believe
they've got the quarterback position all taken care of for
(23:15):
the next ten years.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
So you know, Drake may had lousy footwork at Carolina.
The comp was Herbert, and he made a couple of
plays last week, and I gotta be honest with you,
he looked physically like Justin Herbert. He literally looks like him.
He's raw. How raw do you think he is.
Speaker 10 (23:33):
I'm not sure he's at quite as raw as people think.
He had a few things he has to clean up.
He tended to drift to his left in the pocket,
and that you have to clean up in the National
Football League because otherwise you create your own pressure. But
I think that he's comfortable. I mean, he came off
some reads and went through progressions. I thought, again, it's preseason,
(23:54):
so we have to understand what we're talking about, but
you can still look at a quarterback in a vacuum.
You can isolate his play without worrying about all the
other things. And he looked comfortable. He made a really
good deep ball throw to Baker that he dropped. He
went through a progression on a dig ball on third
and six that looked very, very comfortable. I got a
chance to speak to some coaches at North Carolina where
(24:16):
he played, and you know, they told me, in their mind,
there is no bus factor at all with Drake May.
That you have to know the kid, know the way
he works, know how he sees the game, know how
his teammates respond.
Speaker 8 (24:28):
So I like Drake May.
Speaker 10 (24:30):
I thought he was the toolsiest quarterback in this draft column.
Because I got a chance to stand next to him.
I don't know if you've ever seen him in person.
I haven't, but he's a big dude, and that is
a trait.
Speaker 8 (24:39):
He six four two twenty five is a trait.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Yeah. Even on that last play running into the end zone,
he looks like Justin Herbert to me. So I'm watching
the Steelers and now they've had some musical chairs because
of injury. But when you have when you have mobile
quarterbacks and they're hit ten times and sacked four? Is
it the new OC? Is it injury? That offensive line
(25:02):
they look out of sorts. What am I supposed to
make of that? In Pittsburgh?
Speaker 10 (25:07):
Yeah, the on line was bad in this last preseason game,
particularly the right tackle Broderick Jones, who's the second year
player who is a first round pick and he's got
a long way to go still. But you're dealing with
two quarterbacks Colin and Fields and Wilson. Neither one is
a pure timing and rhythm player. That's not their game.
So now you have to think about what you want
your offense to look like. Arthur Smith is there. There's
(25:30):
going to be a lot of play action. I think
they'll be quarterback design runs. You can make the argument,
and I have no idea how it's going to play out,
but you can make the argument. Since neither one is
truly an efficient pocket player, you can make the argument
that Fields ultimately gives them more because you're going to
have more of a quarterback run game with Fields than
you will with Wilson.
Speaker 8 (25:50):
So again, we.
Speaker 10 (25:51):
Don't know how it'll play out, but neither quarterback is
truly that kind of rhythmic player. So we'll see. But
you know, Fields looked the same as he always does.
He just doesn't see it as quickly. Wilson in the
last couple of years has not seen it as quickly
as you would like. So they're both similar when you
talk about their pocket skills, but Fields gives you more
(26:12):
as a runner.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
You know, it is interesting that you can have so
many traits. Daniel Jones is big, he moves well, his
arm's fine, and he just makes mistakes. It always feels
like the Stingley interception. It's like, Daniel, you got to
miss that on the other side. You can't miss that
on the inside. I don't know how. It just doesn't work.
(26:34):
And I know he's getting good coaching. I mean, what's
missing with Daniel Jones. When you look at film, it's
not size arm movement. No.
Speaker 10 (26:44):
I mean his performance was a little on even in
this last preseason game. Obviously he had the one reckless, undisciplined,
probably stupid interception that we went for a touchdown. The
Stingley interception was a really good play by Stingley. It
was probably a touch short. I thought he could have
thrown that ball with a little more trajectory. We're looking
at it right here. It probably needed a little more
(27:05):
air under the throw. They wanted to work on a
very specific thing in this game. It was evident from
the tape, Colin, and that's what preseason is often for.
They wanted to work on their play action pass game
with deep drops. They wanted him to push the ball
down the field, and they wanted to see how their
old line would protect because that's an issue for them,
the old line. So they wanted to work on something specific.
(27:27):
But one of the areas in which he's not very good,
and I don't know if at this point in his
career that will happen, is he's not very good at
pocket movement. I'm not talking about running out of the pocket.
He is athletic and he can make plays with his legs,
but he's not really a pocket mover. He doesn't really
evade rush and move within an area oh the size
(27:47):
of a boxing ring or a little smaller, and then
reset his throwing platform and deliver comfortably. That's an area
that ultimately you'd like him to really be good at.
Speaker 8 (27:56):
He just hasn't been very good at that, and that's
something he needs.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Sam Darnald, I think a lot of it has been
he doesn't and I think he's got the right coach
left tackle weapons. If he's ever gonna succeed, this is it.
It's also not a great defensive division outside of Chicago.
When I think we both like Donald, if I said
to you, I've never seen him, Greg, what's his fatal flaw?
(28:22):
Why doesn't it work? Because again, size, movement, arm strength
so much does.
Speaker 8 (28:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 10 (28:29):
I think Donald's one of those guys up to this
point that just doesn't see it as cleanly as you
would like. And he's fortunately in an offense under Kevin O'Connell,
who came from the Rams. He's also worked with Kyle Shanahan,
where he does as good a job as any of
sort of that tree of coaching Shanahan McVeigh that tree
of presenting a defined read and a clean throw, and
(28:52):
that's what Donald needs. Look Colin, every offensive coordinator wants
the first read to be the throw. We know that
the Mary Reid to be the throw that doesn't happen
all the time in the NFL. I think Kevin O'Connell,
through his use of formations motions, he'll do as good
a job as anybody that Darnold's been around as a starter.
Obviously he was not the starter in San Francisco a
(29:14):
year ago, but any place he's been with a as
a starter of presenting that for him, and that's what
he needs because he's really not a great progression reader.
He doesn't quite see it as clearly as you would like.
So you have to define it as best you can
for him. Because he's big, he can throw it. He's
got movement, just like you said, and you know him
(29:35):
well from usc being at where you are, you know
it looks like he has everything you want. It's just
that you know he doesn't see it the way you
want it.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Finally, you know I've said this. Aaron Rodgers has taken
four snaps in five hundred days. The offensive line could
could be good, but it's it's I mean, they got
a rookie, they got old guys. And I said this.
The last time I saw Aaron in Green Bay, he
it wasn't as good as Jordan Love is now his
passer raided. I was around Daniel Jones, and it's like, folks,
(30:06):
he's forty, a defensive coach, a suboptimal offensive coordinator, a
new offensive line. Is it very And I don't see
him as a top five or six quarterback anymore because
I don't think he's as dynamic as Lamar. He doesn't
throw quite sometimes like Stafford and Mahomes. I don't think
there's a ton left in the tank. I could be wrong,
(30:29):
but four snaps in five hundred days the last year
in Green Bay. He didn't fall off a cliff. But
is it possible that Aaron's not going to be the
savior we think and the defense will have to lead him.
Speaker 10 (30:42):
Yeah, they do have a really good defense, but we
don't really know the answer to that. I mean, he
was not quite as mobile as last year in Green Bay,
and now he's coming off a really significant injury. It's
very possible that he may end up being essentially a
pocketing quarterback. Yeah, which means the offensive line becomes really critical.
Iron Smith up to this point's been healthy. When he
was healthy last year, he still looked like a top
(31:05):
five type left tackle Vera Tucker's been healthy. The key
is that offensive line because the nature of that injury.
At his age, he's not likely to have anywhere near
the same mobility that he once had, and he didn't
have that even before the injury his year in Green Bay.
So we know he can still throw at Kylin. I
don't think we have any question that Aaron Rodgers, who
(31:25):
may be the best thrower we've ever seen. I'm sure
he still throws it really well, but I think the
nature of his game might change.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Greg Cosel forty five years NFL Film. What a pleasure
to see you again, Greg. As always, we will talk
soon and thank you.
Speaker 8 (31:43):
All right, Colein looking forward to another year. Thank you,
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
noon Pacific. Find your local station for the Herd at
Fox Sportsradio dot com, or stream us live every day
on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Ah, here we go on a Wednesday, live in Los Angeles.
It's the Hurt wherever you may be and however you
may be listening, Thanks for making us part of your day.
We're bringing Greg co Sell on our last hour today,
sort of starting our Greg co Sell for twenty two
to twenty three weeks or thereabouts. He's going to go
(00:48):
through some of the young quarterbacks, what he sees, what
he doesn't. Jamac this my last day for a while,
coming back, you know, labor dash around there, and you're
going to control some of the like you take over
after the ship.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Some of the stuff. Oh, I'm in total consola.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
This thing's going off the rails instantly. So I want
to talk. Kevin Stefanski's the coach the Cleveland Browns. He's
a really good coach, and he's dealt with some ownership
stuff and the Baker stuff, and he's a really really
good coach. I think he's one of the only two
or three coaches in the NFL. It's an ivy leaguer.
I think he went to pen or something. Really smart guy.
I love the way he calls a game and to
(01:28):
you know, dealing with the nonsense he's dealt with. He
and Andrew Berry the GM are obviously know what they're doing.
So he was talking about Patrick Mahomes and I sometimes
because the NBA is a star league and the NFL
is more about the shield and the team, I think
we forget just how big of a star Patrick Mahomes is.
One hundred and twenty three million people watch the Super Bowl,
(01:48):
you know, that game that Mahomes keeps getting into and
mostly winning. The Olympic ratings for basketball, well, the highest
ratings for any basketball game in a year got twenty million.
He get a six times that for one game. So anyway,
Stefanski is talking about Mahomes's style and how people are
copying it.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
You know, it's funny, like it's almost you know, Steph
Curry changed basketball I think Mahomes is changing football. You're
watching quarterbacks come out and play that style that they
comport themselves like him. So I would not be surprised
if you start seeing that around, certainly our league. You're
gonna see kids in high school trying it. Now, they
better complete it. They're going to hear from their head coach.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
You know. It's interesting. Most overwhelmingly, ninety percent of the
greatest players ever other star athletes don't mimic There's not
a lot of Peyton Manning copycats or Tom Brady copycats.
Now Aaron Rodgers and Mahomes. Stylistically, you see guys throwing
off platform no look passes, they get mimicked. Steph Curry
(02:51):
gets mimicked. Nobody tried the skyhook with Kareem Lebron didn't
change the game. He was just great. A lot of guys,
most players don't change the game. They're just really productive
and they win, even the great ones. Nobody's copying Tim Duncan.
But I always think there's a certain audacity to the
way Mahomes and Steph Curry plays, and Stefanski says they're
kind of the same. They change the game, and I
(03:11):
do believe that's true with both Mahomes and Steph Curry.
And I also think there's a joyfulness and a playfulness
to their style. But whenever you're just great, right, I
think sometimes it overshadows fundamentals. When I think of Steph Curry,
(03:31):
you know what I think of his pregame routine. It's
the most intense in the league. I've had multiple coaches
I've talked to about Steph Curry. They're like, you have
no idea how hard he works, and then you watch
the games. Has there ever been a player in league
history that works as hard as Steph Curry to get
his shot? And Patrick Mahomes last year yards per attempt
(03:54):
he was nineteenth. Mahomes has become a great quarterback better
since Tyreek Hill left. Neither one's rigid. They can play
in multiple styles with multiple teammates. I always said Steph
Curry was willing to play with Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony
was threatened by Jeremy Lynn. I like Trey Young a lot,
(04:18):
but he can't get along with de Jon Taint Murray.
Come on, man, It's like part of the greatness of
Mahomes and Curry. They never get in their own way.
Mahomes has virtually no ego. He's making fifty million a year,
forty endorsements, beautiful wife. Literally, he laughs that the dad
(04:42):
bod jokes. He laughs at it. He's not insecure about it,
he's not threatened by it. Takes a shirt off, take
a picture, he laughs at it. He lets the cameras
in Netflix to his house. He laughs at sort of
the dysfunction, by the way, dysfunction we all have in
our lives. He just laughs at it. No insecurity. Steph
Curry comes out with shoes. Remember those shoes, that shoe line.
It's like that's what pharmacists wear in the gut. He
(05:05):
laughs at it. They're so secure in themselves they never
get in their own way. And I could there's so
many great stars out there. Once once you're great and
you're stylish and great, you don't get credit for your IQ,
your EQ, your coachability, your self awareness, not stepping on others' toes.
(05:27):
And I think, I hope we all realize Steph Curry
is the hardest working guy in the league. Nobody's ever
worked harder to get a shot, fight through screens, nobody.
And that's what I think about when I think of
him is that pregame workout. And look at what Mahomes
has done since Tyreek Hill left. He wasn't rigid, he
didn't try to force it. He's like all think and
dunk and he wins back to back Super Bowls. So
(05:49):
I think a lot of times it gets overshadowed. All
you kids want to copy these guys, just to let
you know, it's the lack of ego, coachability and the
fundamentals and the work ethic that creates this. Nobody comes
out of the womb looking like Stephen Mahomes. You got
to put the hours in. So I thought it was interesting.
Aaron Rodgers, you know, I'll say this for Aaron Rodgers.
(06:12):
He talks, he's great content, He's not ducking anybody. I
always appreciated that. I'm never going to criticize a guy
that's always available. He didn't hide from anybody, and he
did talk yesterday. He was talking about this has been
a tough camp for him. I imagine camps get tougher
as you get older. This is an interesting bite.
Speaker 5 (06:31):
I would say the camp is much harder this year,
and maybe the hardest in the last seven or eight.
Speaker 6 (06:37):
In my career.
Speaker 5 (06:38):
Some of the older guys enjoy the uh to steal
a coaching word, the callous part of training camp where
you're kind of grinding, and some people believe that that
although it puts more you know, strain on you in
training camp, that actually gets you more ready to play
when the season starts. And then some people believe the opposite,
(06:59):
and you know how go whatever teams are having success,
people kind of look at their schedule and go, let's
do that.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
He's right, but it is interesting. One of the things
I love about the NFL is the opposite of baseball.
They don't romanticize anything like year to year. Nobody cares,
do your job. Championship parade, Brady gets a little loopy
in Tampa, almost throws the trophy into the pond, and
then it's like, all right, see in two weeks, let's
get back to work. And that's what I love about it.
(07:27):
It's about the grind. It's not about romanticizing the fifties, sixties, seventies.
Nobody cares. I mean, think about this, just in one year.
One year with the Jets, Aaron's gone from the savior
basically saying I want Alan Lazard, Randall cobb inat Hackett
getting kind of what he wants, calling the shots in
the organization. And one year later, Robert Slis called him
(07:51):
out at a press conference and find him. When Aaron
was gone, somebody else, not Nat Hackett called the plays
in camp. He's now viewed as a liability. They've brought
in new receivers to push Alan Lazard down the depth
chart and training camp. Aaron saying it is absolutely no cakewalk.
It's been brutal. And what a difference a year makes.
(08:13):
I mean, the first year for Aaron in the NFL
in New York was a parade celebrating Aaron's arrival, and
that's what it was. This year it's a military march.
And if you don't achieve your goals, it's failure. And
that's what it feels like. Just to give you an example,
(08:34):
and we all know Aaron's going to be a Hall
of Famer, Just to give you an example, this thing
could go off the rails quickly. They may lose to
San Francisco, but what if they lost to Will Levis
or a Sam Darnold or a Jacoby Brissett. This thing
could turn fast. Just to show you how little we
romanticize football and that how every year is different. I've
(08:58):
been saying this with Aaron. Stop falling in love with
his last great year. The last time Aaron was truly
great was three years ago. Here's what was happening in
the NFL. Just three years ago, Trey Lance and Jimmy
g were the Niners quarterbacks. The Lions were three thirteen
and one and a dysfunctional mess. We thought mac Jones
(09:19):
was a pro bowler, and the Titans were the number
one seed in the AFC. They're now lost as a franchise.
The last time Aaron Rodgers was great, so you're like, woa,
that stuff feels like a decade ago. Mac Jones was
a pro bowler. They couldn't give him away this offseason,
couldn't give him away, So nobody really cares. Ian O'Connor,
(09:43):
who wrote the book that just came out two days
ago on Aaron, says they struggled this year. They're all
getting swept out.
Speaker 7 (09:50):
I do think if the Jets are two and five,
this could really go south and get ugly in a hurry,
because he's lost some of that good will from Jets fans.
Speaker 8 (10:00):
They loved him last year.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
New York City fell in love with Aaron like I've
never seen the city fall in love with a superstar.
If they're having a losing season, first of all, everyone's
getting fired. Sala's getting fired, Packets getting fired, Joe Douglas
is getting fired, and Aaron might get fired. Woody Johnson
loves having a star quarterback. If Aaron plays a decent
level of football and they have a losing season, it's
(10:22):
possible what he will bring him back with the new coach,
But chances are if they don't make the playoffs. Rogers
is out of the building with everyone else.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Yep. And last year it was a victory parade when
he showed it, showed up celebrating his arrival. It is
now a military march. Here's the goal, get it or failure.
And that's why it should be and that's why football
is great. Three years feels like twenty years, like nobody cares.
Mac Jones makes a Pro Bowl. Two years later, Boom,
give him away a six round pick, go to Jacksonville.
(10:53):
That's the league. J mattgreg co Sell stops by today
in forty five minutes. I'm gonna give you I have
made some alterations. I've watched the preseason. I've made a
couple of alterations to my NFL divisional predictions. The fourteen
playoff teams got a couple out, couple new in whatever, so.
And then then I go on a little vak a
little it's work. It's labor intensive. It would be working
(11:15):
the entire time.
Speaker 6 (11:16):
Will you be doing our fantasy draft while you're on vacation.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
No, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
I won't.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Oh, okay, well you know, I gotta say hi to annacasion.
He's gonna do auto draft. That is that the game
I'm not given. It is crazy, though, to go back
to the Patrick Mahomes thing, like, think of how big
he is in America. One hundred and twenty three million
people keep watching him win super Bowls, and honestly, he
(11:42):
could go sideways so fast. He never gets in trouble.
He's the nicest guy. He always says the right thing
at the podium, totally secure. He's got a little bit
of a dysfunctional family, doesn't matter. Laughs at the Dad bod,
Steph Curry, same thing there. I mean there has been
the Draymond Green stuff, Jordan Pooles, the Clay Thompson drama,
the Kevin durant stuff. Steph Curry never gets in his
(12:05):
own way, Mahomes. Think of all the stuff Mahomes and
Curry have dealt with, Take a deep breath, talk when necessary,
don't inflame situations.
Speaker 6 (12:18):
I think it helps that both of them had, you know,
parents who were pro athletes, and they got to see
that growing up.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Well smart parents.
Speaker 6 (12:25):
Yeah, I mean, you know, mahomes dad baseball player, Curry's
dad NBA player, Like how to be a professional in
the locker room, you know, Like.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
That's what matters a lot, it does.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Noone Eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Okay, so I'm gonna I get two more. This is
gonna be one. I get two more opportunities before the
season starts. I'm gonna do one on the Thursday before
the opening NFL game, and I'm gonna do one now
is that I've watched the preseason, I'm reading, like you everything,
and I'm gonna give you a sense of where I
feel with my playoffs. So I've made a couple of changes,
couple of minor changes, but they're changes and I'll give
(13:05):
you the reason why. So let's start with the AFC.
I still feel it's Bill's Dolphins, Jets, Patriots. I know
more about the Dolphins than I do the Jets. I
know they'll be wildly productive on offense. Offense is Gary
over if you don't make big wholesale changes, A good
offense one year is a good offense the next year.
It's not the same for defense. Jets. Hassan Redicks not
(13:27):
in camp. Huff's gone a lot of noise. I think
it's Bill's Dolphins, Jets, Patriots. AFC North. I don't know
if there's a great team. I'm out on the Steelers.
Brown's ownership quarterback scares me. It's Ravens Bengals. I may
revisit this. I'm going to go listen Lamar Jackson's health.
I trust him to be healthy by week seventeen, even
(13:48):
though he's had injuries more than Joe Burrow. But if
Joe Burrow is upright for the entire season, Cincinnati may
win this division. AFC South. I feel really good about
my pick now. I really like the Texans. I like
everything about what they're Jaguars best roster. I believe Trevor
Lawrence has had and he is healthy. I still don't
know if Anthony Richardson's style last in this league. Titans,
(14:10):
I don't think are very good. AFC West. Here's the thing,
Kansas City should be better at wide receiver. The Chargers
worry me now because Denver, I think is better faster
with bow nixt than I thought, and I thought it
was gonna work. I'm a little worried about Justin Herbert.
I got Jmack in my ear. So my division winners
(14:30):
in the AFC remain the Bills, Ravens, Texans, Chiefs. But
I'm going to move the Dolphins into the playoffs and
the Chargers out because the Dolphins give me things. I know,
Tua Waddle, Tyreek, Mike McDaniel, those running backs. Remember, Great
offenses carry over year to year. Great defenses don't. There's
(14:54):
just too many unknowns now with the Chargers, Herbert's health,
their receiving corps. I just don't know, and so I'm
going to have for the time being Chargers last team out.
Dolphins are in in the NFC. I've told you, Eagles, Commanders, Cowboys, Giants.
I think Dallas misses the playoff. I think the Commanders
(15:15):
are the shock of the league. I'll get to that
in a second. Here's my big change, and it's pretty subtle. Packers, Lions, Bears, Vikings.
I'm gonna flip Packers and Lions. When the Packers played
the Lions the second time and Jordan Love had experience,
they beat Detroit. I know the Lions have a better
offensive line, the depth of offensive talent, and the coaching
(15:37):
and the quarterback mobility of Green Bay is better. I'm
gonna go with a young, ascending team in my opinion,
the better head coach, the better quarterback talent, and a
loaded stack roster of receiver and tight end talent. Lions
still make the playoffs. Bears are going to be exciting,
but it's a hell of a division. Vikings the best
(15:59):
fourth in the league NFC South. I think Atlanta's gonna
run away with it. I think Atlanta's gonna win potentially
twelve to thirteen games. I really do. I really like Atlanta.
I say that being lighter in the wall at my
entire adult life on Falcons games, Bucks are good, not
as good as Atlanta. Panthers are going to be fun
to watch, much better at wide receiver still third. Saints
(16:23):
will be a mess. I think they're the first team
to fire their coach. And in the NFC West I
said last year, I think they're leaning too much on McCaffrey.
What's the situation on Brandon IU? Will Trent Williams be ready?
I think the Jets could beat him in Week one.
I think they pull back a little. I think they
have peaked physically. They'll be good, they won't be as special. Seahawks,
I think are interesting, a bit of a mystery team
(16:44):
to me. Arizona four So in the division winner category, Eagles, Packers, Falcons, Rams, Lions, Commanders, Niners.
Of the wild card teams, I'm just gonna take a
little younger team in green Bay. I like every thing
about where green Bay is going right now. I also
think they have a history of winning, and I think
(17:05):
Detroit doesn't. And now Detroit Scott from Detroit's gone from
the hunter to the hunted, and I'm not sure how
they're gonna deal with that. They've never been that now,
even last year they were the hunter. Now the Lions
are the hunted.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays
and Noone Eastern non a em Pacific.
Speaker 9 (17:24):
Hey, it's Ben, host of The Fifth Hour with Ben Maller.
Would mean a lot to have you join us on
our weekly auditory journey.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
You're asking, what in God's name is the Fifth Hour.
Speaker 9 (17:33):
I'll tell you it's a spin off of that Ben
Matherer show, a cult hit overnights on FSR.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Why should you listen?
Speaker 9 (17:39):
Picture if you will a world will? We chat with
captains of industry in media, sports, and more every week
explore some amazing facts about human nature and more. Listen
to The Fifth Hour with Ben Maller on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
So Greg Cosell has been working forty five years at
NFL Films. He joins us live. There's some please and
stuff that's interesting. I've said before there's one or two
things that have jumped out to me. So one of
the things that's jumped out to me is Bonnicks. I've
seen you know, six seven drives. He just I mean, listen,
you can watch guys in any line of work and
you go that person knows what he's doing. It doesn't
(18:16):
guarantee he's gonna win twelve games. But I'm watching the
kid moves accurate, clearly, clearly cognitively, He's in and out
of plays fast. I mean, what is your take on
what you're seeing with Plus Sean Payton helps as well.
Speaker 10 (18:33):
Yeah, And I think one thing you notice with Nix
is he looks very similar to what he did at Oregon.
He looks in control. He's a quick rhythm thrower, not
a big gun, but he can run your offense. And
one of the things that maybe a lot of people
Colin are not aware of is he called all the
protections at Oregon and that is a big positive stepping
stone as you make the transition to the NFL. And actually,
(18:56):
we just see this throw at Courtland Sutton. That's also
an example of on Peyton because what Sean Payton does
so well is he creates route combinations that really define
the reads and the throws for the quarterback. So Nis
really only has to read one defender. He doesn't have
to go through a lengthy process to figure things out,
and that's where coaching comes into play. But you're one
(19:18):
hundred percent right. He looks like a very comfortable quarterback.
And the other thing I noticed he was better in
the second preseason game than the first. The first preseason game,
he showed a little bit of a tendency to break
down too quickly in the pocket, and guys that can
move have a tendency to do that, particularly when they
get to the NFL, when the game's a little faster.
(19:39):
Even though it's preseason, the game's still a little faster.
I thought in the second preseason game he was a
little more comfortable. But clearly it's been a positive. But
he looks like he did at Oregon.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Uh, Caleb Williams speaking of moving, we know he can
do that. You know, the criticism was he can be
a little bit of an ad liver. What have you
seen so far?
Speaker 10 (19:59):
Yeah, I actually I thought the first throw of the preseason,
which was third and twelve, was to me, his best play.
We know he can make that throw to a Dounday
running to his left, and again that's clearly special. I'm
not saying it's not special, but the first throw that
he made in the preseason on third and twelve, that
was an example where he looked to his right, he
had to come back to his left based on the coverage,
(20:21):
and he read it out, stayed in the pocket and
delivered the ball to DJ Moore.
Speaker 8 (20:26):
There's learning plays as well. Colin.
Speaker 10 (20:28):
There was a play in this last preseason game where
the design of the play worked and he had Pettis
wide opened down the seam. But you know what he did, Williams,
which he had a tendency to do in college. He
climbed the pocket for no reason. There was no reason
for him to do that, and he created his own sack.
That's a learning play. You want to see those plays
(20:49):
in the preseason. Coaches want to see those plays because
then they can teach because don't forget, he was sacked
at USC.
Speaker 8 (20:56):
Didn't have a great old line.
Speaker 10 (20:57):
We know that, but he was sacked over eighty times
in two years at USC, and many of those were
on him, not just the old line. So that's the
learning part that coaches want to see. It's not a
negative to say that. In many ways, it's a positive
because you want to work through those things in the preseason.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Jaden Daniels I liked him in college.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
I like him.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Now what say you? What do you see?
Speaker 10 (21:20):
Yeah, another guy that looks really really comfortable dropping back
throwing the ball, doesn't look to get out of the pocket.
I think what stood out because he played far more
snaps in his second preseason game was just a ball placement.
He was able, and again these were not necessarily long throws.
But again it's the routine throws that you have to make.
Kurt Warner talks about that all the time, and he's right.
(21:42):
You can't miss the layups in the National Football League
as a quarterback. So it's all about ball placement and
it has to be precise, and Daniels showed that his
last year at LSU. He's shown that early on in
these preseason games, and that's something you can take away
that has nothing to do with what the coverage might
be or if they're blitzing or not blitzaying. You want
(22:02):
to see a quarterback lay the ball. Look at this
throw that was in the first game, and I believe
the audible to that play. You want to see the
precise ball location because you just can't miss layups in
this league.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Yeah, Michael Penix didn't play much. They sat him, they
made they made just they may just say, Greg, we
just don't we're gonna we saw JJ McCarthy. We're sitting
him down. Is that worry at all?
Speaker 8 (22:26):
No, not at all.
Speaker 10 (22:27):
Again, he played in the first preseason game and I thought, again,
this is not an ex and no statement, but Colin,
you've looked at quarterbacks like I have for a long time.
He just looked comfortable. He knew where to go with
the football. He did not play fast. He understood the
route concepts. He understood the coverage when it was one
on one working to the outside here on the vertical route.
(22:48):
He knew when to go to a checkdown within the
timing of the play.
Speaker 8 (22:51):
He just looked like a professional quarterback.
Speaker 10 (22:53):
Now he's obviously not going to play, assuming everything is
fine with Kirk Cousins. And I'm sure through training camp
in the first preseason game, they felt they saw what
they needed to see. But Pennix, I think, look, people
kind of rip the Falcons when they made that pick,
But in their mind, right or wrong, they now believe
they've got the quarterback position all taken care of for
(23:15):
the next ten years.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
So you know, Drake may had lousy footwork at Carolina.
The comp was Herbert, and he made a couple of
plays last week, and I gotta be honest with you,
he looked physically like Justin Herbert. He literally looks like him.
He's raw. How raw do you think he is.
Speaker 10 (23:33):
I'm not sure he's at quite as raw as people think.
He had a few things he has to clean up.
He tended to drift to his left in the pocket,
and that you have to clean up in the National
Football League because otherwise you create your own pressure. But
I think that he's comfortable. I mean, he came off
some reads and went through progressions. I thought, again, it's preseason,
(23:54):
so we have to understand what we're talking about, but
you can still look at a quarterback in a vacuum.
You can isolate his play without worrying about all the
other things. And he looked comfortable. He made a really
good deep ball throw to Baker that he dropped. He
went through a progression on a dig ball on third
and six that looked very, very comfortable. I got a
chance to speak to some coaches at North Carolina where
(24:16):
he played, and you know, they told me, in their mind,
there is no bus factor at all with Drake May.
That you have to know the kid, know the way
he works, know how he sees the game, know how
his teammates respond.
Speaker 8 (24:28):
So I like Drake May.
Speaker 10 (24:30):
I thought he was the toolsiest quarterback in this draft column.
Because I got a chance to stand next to him.
I don't know if you've ever seen him in person.
I haven't, but he's a big dude, and that is
a trait.
Speaker 8 (24:39):
He six four two twenty five is a trait.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Yeah. Even on that last play running into the end zone,
he looks like Justin Herbert to me. So I'm watching
the Steelers and now they've had some musical chairs because
of injury. But when you have when you have mobile
quarterbacks and they're hit ten times and sacked four? Is
it the new OC? Is it injury? That offensive line
(25:02):
they look out of sorts. What am I supposed to
make of that? In Pittsburgh?
Speaker 10 (25:07):
Yeah, the on line was bad in this last preseason game,
particularly the right tackle Broderick Jones, who's the second year
player who is a first round pick and he's got
a long way to go still. But you're dealing with
two quarterbacks Colin and Fields and Wilson. Neither one is
a pure timing and rhythm player. That's not their game.
So now you have to think about what you want
your offense to look like. Arthur Smith is there. There's
(25:30):
going to be a lot of play action. I think
they'll be quarterback design runs. You can make the argument,
and I have no idea how it's going to play out,
but you can make the argument. Since neither one is
truly an efficient pocket player, you can make the argument
that Fields ultimately gives them more because you're going to
have more of a quarterback run game with Fields than
you will with Wilson.
Speaker 8 (25:50):
So again, we.
Speaker 10 (25:51):
Don't know how it'll play out, but neither quarterback is
truly that kind of rhythmic player. So we'll see. But
you know, Fields looked the same as he always does.
He just doesn't see it as quickly. Wilson in the
last couple of years has not seen it as quickly
as you would like. So they're both similar when you
talk about their pocket skills, but Fields gives you more
(26:12):
as a runner.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
You know, it is interesting that you can have so
many traits. Daniel Jones is big, he moves well, his
arm's fine, and he just makes mistakes. It always feels
like the Stingley interception. It's like, Daniel, you got to
miss that on the other side. You can't miss that
on the inside. I don't know how. It just doesn't work.
(26:34):
And I know he's getting good coaching. I mean, what's
missing with Daniel Jones. When you look at film, it's
not size arm movement. No.
Speaker 10 (26:44):
I mean his performance was a little on even in
this last preseason game. Obviously he had the one reckless, undisciplined,
probably stupid interception that we went for a touchdown. The
Stingley interception was a really good play by Stingley. It
was probably a touch short. I thought he could have
thrown that ball with a little more trajectory. We're looking
at it right here. It probably needed a little more
(27:05):
air under the throw. They wanted to work on a
very specific thing in this game. It was evident from
the tape, Colin, and that's what preseason is often for.
They wanted to work on their play action pass game
with deep drops. They wanted him to push the ball
down the field, and they wanted to see how their
old line would protect because that's an issue for them,
the old line. So they wanted to work on something specific.
(27:27):
But one of the areas in which he's not very good,
and I don't know if at this point in his
career that will happen, is he's not very good at
pocket movement. I'm not talking about running out of the pocket.
He is athletic and he can make plays with his legs,
but he's not really a pocket mover. He doesn't really
evade rush and move within an area oh the size
(27:47):
of a boxing ring or a little smaller, and then
reset his throwing platform and deliver comfortably. That's an area
that ultimately you'd like him to really be good at.
Speaker 8 (27:56):
He just hasn't been very good at that, and that's
something he needs.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Sam Darnald, I think a lot of it has been
he doesn't and I think he's got the right coach
left tackle weapons. If he's ever gonna succeed, this is it.
It's also not a great defensive division outside of Chicago.
When I think we both like Donald, if I said
to you, I've never seen him, Greg, what's his fatal flaw?
(28:22):
Why doesn't it work? Because again, size, movement, arm strength
so much does.
Speaker 8 (28:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 10 (28:29):
I think Donald's one of those guys up to this
point that just doesn't see it as cleanly as you
would like. And he's fortunately in an offense under Kevin O'Connell,
who came from the Rams. He's also worked with Kyle Shanahan,
where he does as good a job as any of
sort of that tree of coaching Shanahan McVeigh that tree
of presenting a defined read and a clean throw, and
(28:52):
that's what Donald needs. Look Colin, every offensive coordinator wants
the first read to be the throw. We know that
the Mary Reid to be the throw that doesn't happen
all the time in the NFL. I think Kevin O'Connell,
through his use of formations motions, he'll do as good
a job as anybody that Darnold's been around as a starter.
Obviously he was not the starter in San Francisco a
(29:14):
year ago, but any place he's been with a as
a starter of presenting that for him, and that's what
he needs because he's really not a great progression reader.
He doesn't quite see it as clearly as you would like.
So you have to define it as best you can
for him. Because he's big, he can throw it. He's
got movement, just like you said, and you know him
(29:35):
well from usc being at where you are, you know
it looks like he has everything you want. It's just
that you know he doesn't see it the way you
want it.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Finally, you know I've said this. Aaron Rodgers has taken
four snaps in five hundred days. The offensive line could
could be good, but it's it's I mean, they got
a rookie, they got old guys. And I said this.
The last time I saw Aaron in Green Bay, he
it wasn't as good as Jordan Love is now his
passer raided. I was around Daniel Jones, and it's like, folks,
(30:06):
he's forty, a defensive coach, a suboptimal offensive coordinator, a
new offensive line. Is it very And I don't see
him as a top five or six quarterback anymore because
I don't think he's as dynamic as Lamar. He doesn't
throw quite sometimes like Stafford and Mahomes. I don't think
there's a ton left in the tank. I could be wrong,
(30:29):
but four snaps in five hundred days the last year
in Green Bay. He didn't fall off a cliff. But
is it possible that Aaron's not going to be the
savior we think and the defense will have to lead him.
Speaker 10 (30:42):
Yeah, they do have a really good defense, but we
don't really know the answer to that. I mean, he
was not quite as mobile as last year in Green Bay,
and now he's coming off a really significant injury. It's
very possible that he may end up being essentially a
pocketing quarterback. Yeah, which means the offensive line becomes really critical.
Iron Smith up to this point's been healthy. When he
was healthy last year, he still looked like a top
(31:05):
five type left tackle Vera Tucker's been healthy. The key
is that offensive line because the nature of that injury.
At his age, he's not likely to have anywhere near
the same mobility that he once had, and he didn't
have that even before the injury his year in Green Bay.
So we know he can still throw at Kylin. I
don't think we have any question that Aaron Rodgers, who
(31:25):
may be the best thrower we've ever seen. I'm sure
he still throws it really well, but I think the
nature of his game might change.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Greg Cosel forty five years NFL Film. What a pleasure
to see you again, Greg. As always, we will talk
soon and thank you.
Speaker 8 (31:43):
All right, Colein looking forward to another year. Thank you,
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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