3 & Out - Thursday Night Football Preview, Woj retires, Jay Gruden joins the podcast

John opens the show by previewing the Thursday Night game between the Patriots and the Jets and talks about how this is a game that the Patriots could surprise everyone and beat the Jets. Next, John reacts to the news that Woj is retiring from ESPN and going to become the new GM of the St. Bonaventure basketball program.

Finally, John is joined by former NFL head coach Jay Gruden to talk about the current start of the NFL, what it was like coaching Andy Dalton, RG3, Kirk Cousins, and Alex Smith, and what it was like working with former Washington owner Dan Snyder.

6:00 - TNF Football Preview

14:01 - The latest with Bryce Young

19:19 - Woj retires

26:52 - Jay Gruden Interview

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Episode Transcript

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(01:57):
What is going on? Everybody? John three and Now podcast,
Big show for you today. We have a big game
Thursday night. We have the Jets taking on them Patriots,
who I think I like a little upset. This is
a rough matchup for the Jets given the style in
which the Patriots play, So I might dabble you get

(02:20):
the Patriots right now at plus six even the money line.
I think this thing can get weird, and I think
this thing can get weird fast. Big night for Rogers
shut a lot of people up. They'd be two and one,
but their first two games, I mean they had to
hold on for it took Will Levis to make sure
that they won. Last week, Bryce Young Baker Mayfield had

(02:41):
some comments on Bryce. I want to dive into in
just that entire situation, and then Woes retired. I want
to give some thoughts there. We also will have on
Jay Gruden. Jay Gruden, you might have heard of them,
coach the they were the Redskins at the time for
or I think like six seven years. Coach Kirk Cousins,

(03:04):
coach Andy Dalton coached Alex Smith, John's brother. Just big personality,
he's got thoughts, he's got takes, he loves football like
the Grudens do. So Jay will join us for about
thirty minutes and that'll be the show. Stucky will be
on for Friday. We'll be picking games, talking lines. Look
at the Sunday slate. It's not as easy as the

(03:25):
last couple of weeks, but you just got to take
a deep breath. Me and Stucky will talk it out
and we'll kind of go from there. But subscribe to
the podcast if you listen on Collins Feet three and
out YouTube channel. A lot of content up there, golf
video this week, a reaction to Bryce Young that's video
only threw it up there earlier this week, so make
sure you subscribe to that. But before we dive into

(03:47):
some football, you know, I got to tell you about
my friends, my partners in the official ticketing app of
this podcast. I've seen so much content on the Oklahoma
Tennessee game, Oklahoma kind of making their SEC debut hosting
the balls Michigan USC, Like, think how much fun that

(04:07):
game is going to be, and obviously the NFL. If
you want to go to one of those games, if
your team is good at baseball and you live in
a city where there's playoff baseball, I cannot recommend it enough.
Playoff baseball games are awesome, the intensity of them. You're
living and dying with every pitch. Been to a lot
of them over my life, back when the Giants were good,

(04:28):
and they're just badass. So if you want to go
to one of those, you want to go to a concert,
get out, enjoy yourself, maybe even a comedy show, get
some laughs in do it with my friends at game
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(04:48):
first purchase terms apply again. Create an account and redeem
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Time App today last minute ticket's lowest prices guaranteed. I've
been known to take a few mulligans on the golf course.
I'm not afraid to do that with my takes on football.

(05:09):
I'm not always gonna be right. I'm gonna be way wrong.
And early on I would say all off season I
thought the Patriots were going to be trash. I thought
they would look like the Giants or the Panthers. And
not only have they not looked like that, they've been

(05:29):
pretty good. They easily could be too and zero and
there's a formula to them now. The one team I
was very on the fence about and feel pretty good
about my stance where I sit right now was the
Jets called him the Notre Dame of the pros. All hype,
just the hype, the media market, the way people talked

(05:51):
about him, It's like, what do we talk They haven't
made the playoffs since twenty ten. Aaron Rodgers. He's forty
years old and he can't move. The defense looks like shit.
I think the Pats have a very good chance to
win this game. Right before I hopped on, they're a
six point underdog. I love the Pats plus six, and

(06:11):
I don't think you're crazy at all if you sprinkle
him on the money line. I think this is not
a great matchup for the Jets. Let's just call a
spade a spade. Their offense is dependent on two skill guys. Well,
the Pats have a high end corner in Christian Gonzalls
and just a good overall defense. When you look at like,
what about the coaching matchup? I want to like Robert Sala,

(06:34):
rooted for him since the forty nine Ers. He's a
bald brother, seems like a great guy. Love to hang
out with him, have some beers, talk about his seventeen
children and just talk bald like he'd probably be a
fun hang People really really like him. He's been a
pretty terrible head coach. There's no debating that. It has
felt many times like he's completely over his head. So

(06:56):
Jerrod Male's coaching his third game. If anything, I might
give the if you told me right now, who would
you take. I would take the unknown of Gerrod Meo,
then Robert Sala. So it's not like there's some coaching
advantage here. And then you look at the style of play,
like the Jets are supposed to hang their hat on defense, well,

(07:16):
their defense has been getting shredded on the ground. Through
two games. The Niners ran wild. The Titans last week
ran for one hundred and thirty yards. It was like,
what do the Patriots do? Well, Well, okay, you got
a good secondary sauce some other cats, we don't really pass.
Our quarterback's gonna throw for like one hundred and twenty
hundred and thirty yards. As long as he doesn't turn

(07:37):
it over, will be in the game. Why because we
can run the ball. They've run for three hundred and
fifty five yards. Remandre has over two hundred yards through
two games. Like their formula is pretty simple. It's kind
of the mac Jones version several years ago. Play d
run the ball, time possessions, slow down the game, and Jacoby,

(08:00):
don't turn the ball over. They actually feel like a
better version of the Titans because the Titans have will
Levis and at any moment he could just hand you
the football. It's like, will you want to hand this
to the defender. He's like, yeah, here you go. Just
just take it, just just take it. I don't want
it anymore. Like the Jets easily could have lost last
week if Will Levis wasn't playing quarterback. Well, listen Jacoby's career.

(08:23):
He's turned it over, does not have a pick so
far this year, only has one touchdown. But the Patriots
are really running the ball and defensively. This is not
let's use this Thursday night game. A lot of times,
when you get a new head coach, you know he's coming.
Sometimes he's coming from a different conference, different division. Doesn't

(08:44):
know your opponents that well division wise, because once you
coach for a team for a while, you got the
division pretty locked down in terms of their personnel, their tendencies,
what they like to do, strengths and weaknesses of the players.
Drop Mail has been a Patriots his whole life. I
mean for a long period of time. I think the
streak was broken last year. Belichick went like almost like

(09:07):
ten years. I think the streak was maybe eighteen games,
didn't lose to the Jets, owned him well. Mao was
not only a player for some of that, but he
was definitely an assistant coach for a lot of that.
So when it comes to their offensive personnel minus Aaron,
he's gonna know pretty well. And if you don't think
over the years like him and Bill have spent time

(09:27):
talking about Aaron Rodgers and how to defend him, you'd
be high on drugs. Draw Mayo was his team captain
on defense and then as an assistant coach was a
big part of the game planning the last couple of
years with Bill on the defense. And the defense is
good at least through two games, but the Jets aren't
that good on offense. I just this overreaction to Aaron

(09:51):
still throws a good ball. Of course he does. I
can't say this enough. He's gonna throw a good ball
into his seventies. But what made him a great player
was all the movement really move anymore, so he's keep
them in the pocket. I think this is a really
good matchup for the Pats. I think there is upset
potential tonight. And I thought the Jets could have unraveled.
And I thought this coming into the season if they

(10:12):
started really slow, because they don't have the equity as
a team. They haven't won, so if they hit a
little adversity, like what could they lean back so that
win last week? It's ugly. The Titans may be terrible.
Was big for them, But like I view the Pats
as a better version of the Titans. Play good defense
and run the ball, control the clocks to slow down
the game, make it a lower scoring game. It's not

(10:34):
like the Jets. I just don't view them as a
high powered offense. Rogers is not nearly the same guy
because the mobility is gone and they just don't have
the weapons. I mean, they got one really good wide receiver. Well,
I would say over the course of the Patriots' history,
and males a part of that. Defensively, they've been pretty
good if you just got one wide receiver to kind

(10:57):
of mess with your operation because what was known for
taking away your best weapon. Now Brees Hall is a
really good player. But like you can neutralize a good
back just by cheating a little bit and stacking the box.
So I I think there's major, major upset potential here tonight.
And I'll be the first to apologize to girod Mayo

(11:18):
because if he were to win this game. He's been
fantastic and let's face it, the Jets should win this game.
You're almost seven point zero favorite at home. Like, there's
no everyone and their mother when the schedule came out
gave you a w here. There's a lot of pressure, man,
And like I said, I want to like Robert Solo
the guy. There's zero evidence he's a good coach. I
don't think there's anyone that watches football or works in

(11:39):
football that would say their offensive coordinators a good schematic
offensive mind in Nathaniel Hackett. And then Rogers kind of
takes over, which was great the majority of his career.
It's like kind of like Peyton Manning, let's just take over. Well,
Rogers not quite the same anymore. So I think this
thing can get weird, and they could get weird fast. Okay.
Bryce Young did an instant reaction video a couple days

(12:03):
ago when the news broke, which wasn't really that shocking.
Some of the takes were shocking. I understand shitting on
the Panthers, but if you just watched the guy play,
he was horrendous. Now, you can't be a bust two
games into your second year. It's impossible. It's impossible you
can be a bad player, which he has been. He

(12:26):
has not been a good player. He's been atrocious. But
he's not a bust because his career is not even
remotely close to being over. I think he's twenty three
years old. And Baker Mayfield on Wednesday was asked about
Bryce in a situation. I think he brings up a
good point.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
Obviously mine didn't happen in the same timeframe with Bryce,
but quarterbacks hard, especially for young guys, when you're not
surrounded with the pieces that internet not given the opportunity
to have success. And so that's a lot of the time.
Guys have the talent, they might have the brain, but
they don't have the right opportunity to right fit. I mean,
I'm sitting here right now in a way better fit

(13:05):
than the other places I've been, and that's that's not
to put other teams down, but it's a matter of
the pieces around you, the coaches, and for Bryce, a
guy that you know, not go cann relate to this
finding that belief within yourself again and he'll get it.
His story's far far from finished.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
Clearly he knows from experience going to some place that
is just well run. People believe in you. You gain
your confidence back, you can change the course of everything. Now, Baker,
to me, is more talented than Bryce. Throws a better ball, bigger,
he's I mean, this version of Baker kind of slimmed

(13:43):
down a little bit, looks like a pretty good athlete.
But he's right. Bryce Young, if I was a betting
man right now, is going to be on another team? Well,
why would you say that he just traded all that
for him? I think the heavy favorite to have the
number one overall pick right now would be the Panther
And if they get the number one overall pick, that
means their quarterback play was really bad. Regardless if Bryce

(14:06):
comes back and even looks better than he did, if
they keep losing games, I think they would take a quarterback.
It's like, Okay, what happens to Bryce? Is he a
tradable player? I text with Jake Rosenberg today, Roseman's right
hand GUYE knows contracts. I said, the Panthers cap hits
for Bryce are really big because they gave him like

(14:27):
thirty million dollars signing bonus, and then they gets kind
of spread out throughout the four years of his guaranteed contract.
I said, if you trade for that, that doesn't impact
the trading team, does he said, no, The only thing
you inherit is the cash, the true cash on an
individual year you own, and that is basically just his
base salary and his roster bonus. So I looked in

(14:49):
twenty twenty five, if you were going to trade for
Bryce Young this offseason, just take a fly rom him
seventh round pick. You would pay him four point two
million dollars in twenty twenty five and five point nine
million dollars in twenty twenty six. I don't think any
team's trading for that now. Could the Panthers eat a
little money and facilitate it, maybe, But based on what

(15:11):
we've seen how bad it's been, I'm not sure he's
a tradable player when he's making Like good backups in
the NFL make four or five million dollars. Sam Darnold
last year for the forty nine Ers signed for four
million dollars, Who you know can be your backup quarterback? Like,
we're not even sure. It's impossible to feel good that

(15:31):
he would be a good backup right now because we
know he's not a starting quarterback currently so not because
he's bench, but like you can't roll him out as
a starter and expect to win. A lot of former players,
a lot of people. Mel kiper went on a good rant.
The Panthers are easy to shit on. And I don't
disagree with the crazy roller coaster and the turmoil that

(15:55):
the owner is brought on the coaching changes. That's fair,
but you can watch individual plays in a vacuum and
go this is bad. Like I can't function as an
offense when there's a guy in the flat or a
guy wide open on a slant route and you're skipping
the ball to him. And like I said this when

(16:15):
I reacted to the news he will play more games
this year. If I had to put the over under
on games Dalton starts, it's definitely less than four because
I don't expect them to win. He easily could get injured.
He's thirty seven years old. Bryce will not only be back,
he will play a lot this season, but if he
is going to be a tradable asset at the money

(16:37):
in which he is owed because he was the number
one overall pick, I do think he has to show something.
You can lose a lot as a young player, We've
all seen it, right with young players that become really
good players over time, usually they show some stuff like God,
he's got really accurate, great deep ball thrower, great athlete,

(16:59):
just got some moxie in the second half of games.
He's showing nothing so right now to me, if they
were to get the number one overall pick and it
plays out like how it's gone, I think they would
have to cut him, which regardless if Bryce doesn't change
how much money he's getting. It was all guaranteed. But
there's a decent chance he's just available for everybody. And

(17:21):
then I think for no money, a lot of teams
would be very, very interested in taking a flyer, not
to give him a starting quarterback like that's it's been
that bad, Like he's already there. It's not even like
nobody would. I don't even think that many teams would
fel good about him as their backup. I think, if anything,
they'd bring him in to compete to be the backup,

(17:44):
which sometimes you need that. Look at Sam Darnold, happened
to him boom, ten million bucks. Now he's starting quarterback.
Things are going really well. Kind of shocking news today
that'd uh woesh retired, just quit, just said I'm done.
I read an article today that said he had twenty

(18:04):
million dollars remaining on his contract. Damn, this guy was
that over it? Now, let me say this, what I
do for a living, just given opinions, reacting to games
is dramatically easier on my mental health than constantly just
texting people in the league asking for information. I can't

(18:28):
even imagine how exhausting that is to be Woes, to
b Chefter, to be shams, to be rap sheet, to
be these guys that would I guess you could pay
me seven eight million dollars to do it, but you
have to just like love the news breaking Now, it's
a very lucrative profession and there is a very very
small percentage of people that make a lot of money

(18:49):
because they get all the stories. And I think ESPN
when they hired Woes overvalued Twitter like he's big on
two breaking stories, but their television network. And I was
thinking about this today. If I'm Adam Schefter, who is
the best in the biss he's also good on television.

(19:13):
I'm not trying to like rain on Woj's retirement parade.
He was awful, Like it was uncomfortable watching him on television.
I don't blame him. Lifetime newspaper reporter just not his thing.
But ESPN didn't just pay seven million dollars a year
for the Twitter account, right, and they put him on

(19:34):
television constantly and it was really, really rough to watch.
So if I'm Adam Schefter, I'm obviously every bit as
good on the internet breaking stories, but I'm good on television.
People are lined up to book me on their shows.
I'm a huge part of the coverage in everything we do.

(19:54):
What am I worth? If Woes? Think about the numbers? Now,
I get basketball's different because they play all the time,
but the American pastime, the one sport we all watch
is football. The number one newsbreaker who's good online and
on television. I was thinking, if I'm Schefter, Am, I
work triple what Woes is worth, And I know the

(20:16):
economics of it when you're already at these big numbers.
But I do think it brings into light how like
undervalued Atam is because they broke the bank for Woes
and it was tough to watch him on TV. He
was just on TV because they paid him all this
money for his Twitter account. It's not like he was

(20:36):
breaking stories the first time I started reading him. You know,
Schefter's been a newsbreaker in that I feel like the
majority of my adult life. When I first got out
of the NFL and was working in local radio, Mark
Jackson was the coach of the Warriors, and it was
it was an up and down experience, I think for

(20:58):
the organization and Mark and he got he had like
a stripper side girlfriend and he was going to church
on Sunday. There was a lot going on. Some guys
on the team didn't like him, some guys loved him.
The ownership clearly wasn't that comfortable with some of the
shit he was doing and started leaking stuff to WOCHH
and Woes used to hang his hat on writing the
best articles because he would eviscerate people, a huge reason

(21:24):
Mark Jackson has never been a head coach in the
NBA since that Warriors experience. Just google some of the
articles Woes used to write. It almost felt like when
the NBA or ESPN, which is kind of the same thing,
bought WOJE whatever seven eight years ago, that stopped. There
was no more of that. But I was listening to

(21:44):
Ethan Straus podcast today, a woj bomb was not so
and so got traded. It was an article that was
about to empty the clip on somebody and you were
gonna read it and go, holy shit. The Mark Jackson
and stuff like. He rattled off a couple of those.
They were just they were a sledgehammer to his career.

(22:07):
And then ESPN, who's in bed with the NBA, just
paid for that to stop. And that's never really been
Adam's business. Obviously, Adam breaks stories, but I don't remember
him writing too many articles that were like e viscerating
guy's character and that just ended. And I know wos
You know he tweets. I'm not never been the biggest

(22:28):
woes guy. I think sometimes the way he like, I
don't know, just something about him. He pivot just hearing
some of these stories about him. Respect anytime you have
that many contexts, you have that many information, like, you're
obviously good at your craft. He's clearly a hard worker.
But let's call a spade a spade. I mean, one

(22:51):
of the most overpaid human beings in the history of television.
How many people have ever been paid seven million dollars
a year to be on TV and couldn't be on TV?
It was that rough Cheff is a complete opposite. Make it.
They've thrown him on NBA games, So it feels like
I'm I'm peeing on the parade here, but it is, well,

(23:12):
these are my It's just the first thing that came
to my mind when I when I saw it, because
I think Adam's dramatically underpaid. Okay, very very excited to
have on the best athlete in the Gruden family. Jay Gruden. Uh,

(23:37):
Jay Live from Virginia. How you doing.

Speaker 3 (23:40):
I'm doing good, doing good.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (23:42):
My brother was a pretty good athlete there. Uh when
he until right after high school he stopped growing. I
kept growing a little bit to count to be six foot,
but he was a damn good baseball player and football
player for sure.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
I was looking at your arena league bio. I'm born
and raised Davis, So right by Sacramento, and I saw
you had a quick stint there in the in the
early nowties before you became an arena league legend and
rattled off some MVPs and championships.

Speaker 3 (24:05):
I gave it a shot with the Sacramento surge. Did
not work out, so I went played arena balls.

Speaker 2 (24:09):
More fun is arena league. Was it just the time?
Obviously television has changed the game, But like you would
think that that would kind of work. If it worked
in the nineties, it would have a place today. What
do you think happened there?

Speaker 3 (24:23):
I think we just missed our window. We were too early.
It was a great league when I was in it.
Players were getting paid a lot of money, coaches were
getting paid pretty good.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
It was very competitive.

Speaker 3 (24:31):
We're getting guys right out of the NFL as soon
as they get cut, we get them even before going
to the CFL. I think we just got a little
too big for our breitches. The franchise tags went up
to like sixteen seventeen million dollars and the owners could
never recoup that because they were guaranteed TV money or
the NFL is going to buy in as used as
a developmental league, and neither one of those things happened.

(24:52):
So the owners kind of lost their ass and they
had to get rid of it.

Speaker 2 (24:56):
When I worked with the Eagles, Matt Naggi had just
got there and he had a good career, and I
remember watching him spin the ball. I'm like, I don't
know if he could move like an NFL player, but
clearly in the Arena League. You guys have a lot
of guys that could spin it. In twenty twenty four
with the Internet. Obviously, Warner kind of made the transition,
But do you think there would have been more The
scouting staffs are a way bigger now, would have been

(25:17):
more guys make it because I would imagine, I mean,
you see the XFL, the USFL, I mean guys are
getting shots left and right. Yeah, I think some of
the ninety man rosters too.

Speaker 3 (25:27):
Yeah, for sure, for sure, a lot of guys would
have got more opportunities to play where they don't get
that opportunity once they get cut in the NFL or
trying to get on the XFL. But this is a
great opportunity for skilled guys, especially wide receivers, defensive backs
that really show their skill. You gotta be able to
cover in that league. I mean you got to change
direction and do some things, and pass rushers as well,
and then offensive linemens. Some guys could develop as guards

(25:48):
or tackles in the league as well. Just you know,
given guys, young guys opportunities to play more is a benefit.
That's why I hope the UFL works out, because there
are gonna be some guys that can emerge from that
and be big time helps in the NFL.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
How much time do you and your brother spend talking
about quarterbacks?

Speaker 3 (26:07):
Not as much anymore. We still do quite a bit
from time to time, but he's got his own show
now going on. But we we love talking football. It's
all we know. So that when we get together, we're
talking football, plays, protection schemes, all that stuff, and then
we'll maybe swing a golf club, but love the quarterback
position and study that.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
How's the golf game?

Speaker 3 (26:26):
It was going pretty good till today. I played terrible,
but it's it's all good. About a five hand acap
four and a half, and oh, I don't think I'll
ever get below that because I'm not a good enough hutter.
I don't make any putts, but I can get around
from t Green pretty good. I don't get a lot
of doubles, but make a lot of pars and bogies
an occasional birdie if.

Speaker 2 (26:42):
I chip in. You beat John, Yeah, I beat him
like a drum.

Speaker 3 (26:47):
You know, just got a new hip, so I can.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
Really beat I was thinking, you know, your brother really
came on the scene right with that crew in Green
Bay and farv and I remember talking to Marty morning
Wig and he's he thought far Of was the best
player he ever saw during that stretch. And obviously from
a physical gift standpoint, you could argue, I mean, he
was one of the greatest, if not the greatest throwers

(27:09):
of the football as athleticism, But when I think about
the quarterbacks you've had, and even your brother right success
with the rich Gannon and then he coached Derek Carr.
You had Andy Dalton as the OC and Sincy and
then you had Kirk Cousins you trade for Alec Smith.
It's kind of like you go the opposite of car
with the quarterbacks you like. Is that just that's just
the timing where you were at the time, what was available,

(27:32):
or did you guys you specifically with Dalton, Cousins and
Alex who was really good before he got injured, weren't
you guys like six to two that year?

Speaker 3 (27:40):
I mean you had two game leading division and he
broke his leg and then Colt mcway broke his leg
the next game after that, so we were down to
Josh Johnson. It was a rough stretch there for about
a year.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
So I guess the question is do you lean, you
can deal with a little lesser arm quarterback if they're
accurate or is that just the cards you were in
those given situations.

Speaker 3 (28:01):
Well, Cincinnati is really the only quarterback I picked me
and not myself, but Marvin Lewis and I spent a
lot of time in that draft. We had a second
round draft pick, and Blaine Gabbert was in that draft. Obviously,
Cam Young, Christian Ponder, Jake Locker was in that draft.
So we had to sit there in the second round.
We had to wait for Andy to fall. We were
just hoping to goodness that he would fall. I thought

(28:22):
Seattle was going to take him at twenty nine, but
they took James Carpenter Lyneman and the other choice was
Ryan Mout or Colin Kaepernick. And I really wasn't too
involved in the zone reads and all that stuff at
that time, so I really needed somebody to come in
and start as a rookie because Christian what's his name
the quarterbacks that he wasn't coming back, Carson Palmer, Yeah,
Carson Palmer said he was not coming back no matter.

(28:43):
So we had Jordan Palmer on the roster and Dan
lef Fever was all we had on the roster, so
we had to get a starter, so we had to
wait till the second round. And Andy was perfect because
he started four years at TCU. They had a lot
of different variances in their system. He was under center,
He's in a shotgun play action quick game. I understood protections,
and I knew that he could handle the offense at
a faster rate than anybody else. Because it's also the

(29:06):
strike shortened season, so we didn't have a training camp
or at OTA's in the off season. We just had
to come to training camp, put the offense in. He
had to learn it and start from day one, So
he was perfect for us. When I got to Washington,
we obviously had Robert and Kirk, so they were my
guys that we had to develop. My job was to
develop Robert first, but as time went on, it was
clear that Kirk was the better passer of the football

(29:28):
and understood the game a little bit better and was
more healthy. Robert, you know, after he broke his leg
was never quite the same probably, and then obviously when
we lost Kirk, I found out on Twitter, my son
found on Twitter we traded for Alex Smith. I had
no idea, you know, my son comes running. Hey, guys,
it's got Alex Smith. I go, what what do we
give up for him? I guess a third round draft
pick in Kendall Fuller and Kenball Fuller's are starting Nickel.

Speaker 2 (29:51):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (29:51):
Yeah, I wasn't happy about that. I loved Alex. I
loved coaching Kirk, but really Andy's the only one I
handt picked for myself, and that was really the only
guy left Forrest to hat pick.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
Well, I think there's a lot there by the time.
Let's start with cousins who this probably come out on Thursday,
but I had just had the big comeback. Do you
think he became a better player or was coming into
his own? Was he a different guy once he had
been in Minnesota a couple of years and the guy
we've seen probably the last three plus years pre Achilles
than the guy that you experienced, or as he looked

(30:22):
the same to you.

Speaker 3 (30:23):
I think he looks the same. He's obviously gained more
confidence than everything that he does. He's a perfectionist when
it comes to footwork and preparation, and he wants to
know exactly why plays are in and the timing, anticipation,
all that stuff. He's really good at that I think
when Kirk really turned the corners, when he gained confidence
in himself. He was always second fiddle here. Everybody wanted
Robert Robert, Robert Robert. Nobody ever talked about Kirk, and

(30:45):
then when the competition actually was going on, he's still
felt second fiddle because the fans really wanted Robert to
succeed and they were kind of against Kirk all the way.
And then Kirk started playing good. Once I announced him
as a full time starter, he didn't have to look
over his shoulder. I think that's when he really took
a huge jump as far as his production and his
fear of not throwing interceptions and all that stuff. He

(31:07):
got rid of all that, just played the position and
really took over. We went nine to seven, went to
the playoffs. He had a fabulous year and helped me
get an extension. Then he went on his way and
we went on our way.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
On the Cousins situation on Monday night, you know, they
struggled in the red zone in their couple of trips
and just I mean, he's new to the team, but
that final drive, it's pretty clear in that situation when
a team has probably a buck forty plus kicking it
out of bounds, you get the ball at the thirty
year one pass away from being pretty close to midfield,

(31:38):
and clearly, you know, Vic Fango, in my opinion, has
been one of the better defensive coordinators. I don't know
for a long time, but felt like they were pretty soft,
you know, and the safeties were way back, and those
holes were pretty easy for Kirk when they were not
getting any pass rush. What did you see on that
final drive that made it so easy for the Falcons
that was stealing candy from the baby?

Speaker 3 (31:58):
They ran our nascars come outs up with a spin
and the dagger behind it, and he hit the spin
for a game of ten. Then they come back to
no Head and they played two deep Philadelphia in the
corner jumps a flat route like a like a rookie
would do, I guess, and they threw the Dan Bencher
out right over the top of for game about twenty five,
and then they played really soft. The one thing I

(32:18):
think had it been me, is defensive corn. I know
they got a rookie corner out there, but the guy
can't really move right now. You've got to bring some
kind of pressure, and they just brought a four man rush.
They weren't even getting close to him. And Kirk Cousins
probably would be the best seven on seven quarterback in
the National Football League. His accuracy and anticipation and he
can set his feet and throw the ball. He is

(32:38):
accurate as all get out, so you have to get
him off his spot. If you don't get him off
his spot, and he can step into a throw and
see it, there's nobody as accurate as Kirk, and he
proved that last night.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
Yeah, that was that was a big time drive for
him early in the season with a new team. Going
back to the Dalton situation, who's in the news this week.
Obviously he's going to start. But I think it's been
talked a lot about with these rookie quarterbacks, the logic
of red shirting him, which doesn't really happen anymore, right,
and throwing them right into the fire. Dalton falls under
that category. Had played a Ton clearly a mature guy,

(33:10):
kind of like a Dak Prescott or a Brot Purdy.
Not your normal rookie, is it safe to say. But
still there is a big transition period. Did you get
like you said, you just didn't really have a choice.
Is that an ideal situation? How do you attack that
from a coaching standpoint because you see these I mean,
Caleb's really struggling getting crushed. Bo Nicks looks kind of
over his head right now, and Jaden's just kind of

(33:31):
running around.

Speaker 3 (33:33):
Yeah, you know, it's tough. Everybody's different. Every quarterback is different,
and then you have to protect them with the scheme.
And you look at some of these coaches calling these players.
They're throwing nine bubble screens again, and like, dang, challengeing
guy a little bit. But you know, Andy was just
a very brank guy. Another thing we had the good
fortune of we had a really good defense, and I
didn't feel the pressure to score. Every time we had

(33:53):
to ball or convert every third down, I'd ran a
draw sometimes on third and eight or screen of the
back or whatever it might be, and punted and trying
to get the ball back. So we had really good defense,
Our special teams was good, and Andy did not turn
the ball over and kept us in games. We won
nine games this first year. He won ten the second
year and eleven or third year, and then I got
the job of Washington. So every quarterback is different. How
they handle it. Andy was really well prepared on protections

(34:16):
and new where to go with the football. Not the
most accurate guy all the time, but very smart and
handled a lot of information and did a great job.
Some of these quarterbacks, you know, they I don't know
if they can handle it or not. There's there's so
many different things nowadays. You know, in college they're clapping
their hands or looking at the sidelines or doing anything
with protections. Now all of a sudden, they might trying
to Mike point or not Mike point. I don't know

(34:37):
who's free. And it's just a long way to go,
a long process for these guys to get comfortable. They
want total knowledge of the position right now. I don't
think any of them are. I think they're just snapping
the ball, letting the center call everything and end a
free rusher comes, he just throws it away or scrambles.
So these guys have a long way to go, a
lot of talent. But you know, even some of the

(34:57):
second year guys are struggling. We just you know, Saw Elevens.
Every game he has a terrible interception or a fumble
or something like that across his team. So, yeah, these
guys are struggling, but they just got to keep playing
until they get it.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
You bring up a pretty good point. Your Cincinnati teams
were really talented, good offensive line, you just drafted aj Green,
Your defense was stacked. But Andy, I mean hit the
ground running. And you look at Bryce Young, unlike your
roster back in Cincinnati or the Niners or what Dak
took over. It's pretty terrible. But on individual plays, Bryce
looks I mean, let's face it, horrendous. So when you

(35:31):
saw that decision, he couldn't be any worse. Really through
the first two games, even independently of what's around him.
Is that you work for a place where the owner
had a lot of opinions to getting involved. Clearly that's
going on in Carolina. What was your first reaction when
you saw that?

Speaker 3 (35:47):
I think it had to be done, you know. I
think when you look at a quarterback, you look at
his progress and what's he doing good? What can we
build on? And I didn't see one thing when it
comes to the quarterback position that you felt like you'd
get build on with Bryce. I mean, his arm talent
didn't look there, his decision making didn't look very good,
his aes capability didn't look very good, his stature in
a pocket, his knowledge of the game thrown into coverage.

(36:07):
There was just nothing that I saw him getting better at.
That's the problem that I had with Bryce. He'd love
to see him Okay, he's getting rid of the ball quicker,
he's anticipating some throws, but he's taking sacks, he's missing throws,
he's throwing bubble screens in a dirt. There was just
really no redeeming quality. I think they had to do it.
I think the team you have to do that as
a coach, and very similar when I made the move
to Kirk. You know, the team sees the film. They're

(36:29):
watching the film, and if you don't make a move,
you're gonna lose respect in the locker room from your players.
And I think that's why coach Canalis had to make
that move.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
So what happens now? Does he just run the scout team.
Do you treat it a little bit different than a
normal backup quarterback?

Speaker 3 (36:43):
I think it like a man and understand, hey I
didn't play very good. You know he's got to He's
got to point the finger to himself, first directly and
then getting the meeting room and continue to develop if
and he gets hurt tomorrow or next weekend, he's a
back in the in the fire. So he's got to
continue to prepare himself like a pro. Understand that he's
very He's a young player still, and if you look
around the league at some of these quarterbacks like Baker Mayfield,
he's on his fourth team already, so there's still time

(37:04):
for him to develop. And he just got to be
patient in the process, believe in the process, but really
make himself better and understand the game.

Speaker 2 (37:11):
You talk about Colt when he was there with Alex
and I think Cousins and then I get asked this
question a lot, and I think from just a pure
evaluation standpoint, from a scouting standpoint, like talent is probably
not the most important factor when you look at a
backup quarterback. You know your quarterback guy, OC head coach,

(37:34):
what do you look for in a backup quarterback beside
like what he's going to cost relatively or salary, all
things being equal, what's an ideal backup quarterback?

Speaker 3 (37:43):
Well, you have to make sure he's ready to go
and play if something happens. I know first hand quarterbacks
get hurt all the time. You look at last year,
I think nineteen of them got hurt.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
So, yeah, sixty six guys played or something.

Speaker 3 (37:54):
That's the number they got to play. But you also
have to have somebody that's knowledgeable of the game, because
he's not going to get a lot of reps. He's
not going to get even in training camp. I want
my starter to get most of the rep I gotta
get him ready, and he's going to have to learn
based on what he sees and when he comes into
games and have to be prepared. So you got to
have a guy that you know is going to be
prepared and understand your system, be supportive of the starter,

(38:15):
help you with some idea. Sometimes a lot of backup
quarterbacks like Colt, those guys had good ideas for third
down or red zone or play action passes, whatever it
might be. Just be involved in the process of teaching
and working with the starter. And now when your time's ready,
you better be ready. And you got to count on
that guy to be ready despite hardly ever talking to
him like okay, this is you're always talking to the starter,

(38:35):
but you're talking to him as well, and he's got
to understand that and be ready. My first year Assistinnati
Bruce gret CAWSI was our backup. He was perfect, he
was always ready to go, very smart. He got called
in the first game against Cleveland, came in in the
second half, had a great odd ball to get us
a first down and then threw a touchdown past to
aj Green to win it. So and always very supportive.

(38:56):
Never ever was there any controversy between the starter and
the back quarterback. Everybody knew their place and uh and
that's important as well.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
Would you say they'd have to be right there with
like the kicker and the punters, the lowest maintenance guy
in the building.

Speaker 3 (39:09):
Yeah, yeah, but they you don't want You want them
to be a little bit more active in helping the
receivers and young receivers and offensive linemen and all that stuff.
They they're like another coach on the field. You want
that type of backup in your building that can really
help out and see the game in the big picture
and really help out and help the head coach. And hey,
you know, like I had Bruce and Colton, those guys

(39:31):
are great. They help out in lots of different areas,
not just playing quarterback and worrying about themselves.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
They really are a hybrid role right coach player because
ideally they never take a snap.

Speaker 3 (39:42):
Yeah that's ideally, you know, but but they have a
lot of knowledge. You know, the quarterbacks usually one of
the smartest guys on the team, and they can help out.
And as a coach, you gotta you know, they'll help
you with the pulse of the locker room as well.
You know, they're not snitches, but they will help you
with the pulse of locker heye, you know, you're a
little too rough on these guys that they I want
to take a day off or go a little lighter
or whatever it might be. They have just a great

(40:04):
idea of the pulse of the locker room and they're
a big help in a lot of different areas.

Speaker 2 (40:08):
I got this question recently, and I thought it was
pretty fascinating. As a head coach, whether you're calling the
plays or not, we often see the guys write little
notes throughout the game. What typically are you writing down
during the course of the sixty minutes.

Speaker 3 (40:23):
On the game plan? You're just writing down plays that
you called, or what happened, or what coverages you might
have seen, maybe percentage of coverages you're seeing on third down.
You know you have different categories on third and two
to five. Okay, we got mad on this one. We
got mad on this one. So you know they might
play their cover three on the next one or whatever.
Just little notes to yourself, or you're making notes on play,

(40:43):
like if you've got a star player, you haven't got
them a ball yet. You got to try to find
the plays that are best suited to get him that ball.
And a lot of different things you can write on
sometimes right down the referees name that guy just gave
you a bad call at guy's name is Bill. I'm
going to get after Bill in his next rife. You know, easy,
get right nowt on there.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
Are you ever writing down like so and so looks terrible?
We got to make mention of this he's out of
shape or this coverage is a bad.

Speaker 3 (41:10):
Can't all do that. I used to take my phone
out there sometimes and make notes on my phone. People
think I was on the phone, but I would make
notes on that play to and walk through. We gotta
we gotta go over that protection schemer. We got to
make sure we find a third corner because our third
corners aren't very good on special teams and they can't
run and things like that. Yeah, oh yeah, you make
those notes all the time as a head coach.

Speaker 2 (41:29):
So you would say the notes during a game are
very specific to that game in terms of coverages, play calls,
what's working, what's not, individual players we need to feature
on this play stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (41:39):
Or ideas for the next series too, Like if you're
getting ready to punt and then the next series, you
might have a thought, oh my gosh, I got to
get to this play action. You might circle it or
make a note of what play action pass you want
to get to early, what runs you want to get to,
what personnel groups you want to I mean, the play
the game plan is usually pretty thick and a lot
of different person l groupies and plays and personnel groupies,

(42:02):
play action, quick game, empty motions, all that stuff. Then
you have your specific third down, red zone, short yardage,
all those and there's some plays that really worked for
you in practice, that really look good in practice, you
know your quarterbacks feel good about You got to make
sure you get those off the script at some point
because you don't want to take them with you when
the game's over.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
Would you consider yourself a West Coast offense guy? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (42:25):
Probably, I learned everything from my brother worked for him
for seven years in Tampa, and then I went to
the UFL and I kind of added my own stuff.
And then I got the offensive coordinator job at Cincinnati,
and mainly it was a lot of Tampa stuff. Actually
had I called up the Bible for Football two thousand
and eight, Buccaneer Playbook.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
I use a lot.

Speaker 3 (42:45):
You had good Man beaters, quarters beaters in there, a
lot of different information in there that I really liked,
and I use a lot of the terminology is very similar.
And then when I got the job at Washington, I
kept Sean McVay on because he worked with Shanahan's and
I wanted to try to implement some of their runs
and play actions with what we did, So we kind
of change the terminology a little bit to suit the quarterbacks,

(43:05):
Kirk and Robert, so they'd have to learn everything brand new.
So we kind of kept the running game very similar,
the play actions very similar. And then the past concepts
that I liked from the West Coast we kept over
from Washington firm, Cincinnati, andam Well.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
I wrote down because I wanted to ask you. Obviously,
Kyle's father and now Kyle and the Kubiaks who might
as well be Shanahan's as well, Clints crushing it with
the Saints. How would you describe the Shanahan offense.

Speaker 3 (43:32):
I think it's all predicated on the outside zone. Is
that what really they'd made famous? And then the play
actions off of it. Really, I think their passing game
is pretty much nothing really special. Their protection schemes are
a little shit when they get down or they have
a lot of third downs, they are not quite as
effective as something teams like and Andy Reid type guy.
But first and second down, these guys will kill you

(43:54):
if they're having success on first and second down. They
have a litany of play action passes and boot and leaking,
the tight ends out around the backfield, and the runs
they get going their very schooled and how they want
their run blocking to be. They have different variances off
the outside zones with the sifting and very creative ways
to get to the same spot, which is what I
liked about how they ran it. I actually think Kyle's

(44:17):
best season as a play caller. We had Robert Griffin
as a rookie. I mean, he put in the plays
nobody's ever saw. You know, the zone reads with the
sifting tight end and then they're bluffing that guy, and
then he's keeping it with a lead blocker, and then
they're pulling out phoning a glass route right behind the
pire Garson and then finally lead caught up with it.
They weren't. They were starting to fall back a little

(44:38):
bit on some of these sift blocking, but that first
came in. He was given defense as Nightmares, and so yeah,
he's definitely a great play call off first second down,
probably one of the best.

Speaker 2 (44:47):
Well, you mentioned when they get down, they get in trouble. Well,
you're not always going to be you see the Saints
right now, or just curb stopping people and they just
keep running the ball down your throat. Kyle for a
lot of his careers had good teams and they do that,
but when they find themselves down they did against Vikings,
it gets weird. So how do you overcome You can't
just change your whole offense, but how do you get
better in just we're going to throw the ball in

(45:08):
second and third down no matter what here because we're
down a couple of scores, Like, how do you practice that?
Because it seems it's it's been a bugaboo For Kyle,
I would say over he had that run where he
was down seven points in the fourth quarter, they were like,
oh and thirty eight or something. Yeah, he's going to
all these NFC championship games. So how do you balance
to become more complete? Like Andy?

Speaker 3 (45:27):
I don't know. I'm just not a big fan of
his past, his true pass concepts when he's down and
you know, it's just not a big fan of me.
They're I don't know. I just I just don't understand
a lot of them. And that's just something you have
to continue to work on through OTA's training camp and
all that stuff. You got to prepare to be down.
You know, it's always it's a lot easier to call
plays when you're ahead by fourteen points on first and second.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
Down and when.

Speaker 3 (45:49):
Not Many coaches haven't had a lot of success calling
plays down having to come back. It's very difficult when
you're a one dimensional team. It's very difficult in the
NFL to have success. I'm not saying that any I
did have a lot of success. I'm just saying from
a pass game standpoint, when I study teams, that would
be one of the last teams I would look at
as far as past concepts go on known passing situations,

(46:12):
I'd go elsewhere look for other pass concepts.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
Is the West Coast offense better in that situation because
they're passing games so predicated on the quick game, three
step drops, getting rid of the ball quickly.

Speaker 3 (46:21):
So I mean, Kyle, they still have the quick game too,
but I just like to down the field passes. You know,
the Sean Payton pass game when he was at New Orleans,
that's really and my brother when he was at Oakland
and obviously Tampa Bay. Those were the pass games that
I really liked. I really studied when John was out
of football. Sean Payton and Drew Brees and obviously Tom
Brady was they were kind of different. Bill O'Brien and
all those coordinators that he had there. They were a

(46:44):
little bit different, but they still spread the field pretty
good and made it a little bit easier for the quarterback.
And it just made more sense to me on the
eye where if people were or why they were getting there,
who were there reading Sometimes I just feel like, Kyle,
guys are just running all over the place with no
rhyme or reason. But those are the teams. When Drew
Brees was in his heyday. It was Sean and they
had you know that they worked in backs, they worked

(47:05):
the weak side linebackers, and they worked the crossing the
routes extremely well. Uh, that was one of the best offenses.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
I think, what are your thoughts on brock Party.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
Oh he's great. You know, I think he's nobody expected
him to do what he did, you know, and I
know he gets a lot of not I don't know,
he doesn't get enough credit for the success that he's had.
Everybody gets. Oh, Kyle Shannon is a great play caller.
You know, somebody's got to execute this offense. And sure
he's had some clean pockets and some really good looks,
and you got a credit Kyle for some of those.

(47:36):
But still he's delivering a football and he's taken some
hits and done a pretty good job of getting their
team in position to win.

Speaker 2 (47:42):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (47:43):
Do I think he's want the top quarterbacks in leg
I don't think he's want top quarterbacks in the league,
But he got to give him a lot of credit.
I think he's pretty damn good.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
Okay, I want to get you out of here asking
you about two guys. You know, looking back, obviously you
had known McVeigh because he had worked for your brother
and it coached, like you said, with with Kyle and Mike,
so he had kind of learned a different scheme. But
was it a pretty bold move at the time when
you made him your offensive coordinator, even though I think
at the time you were gonna call plays right as

(48:09):
the head coach, but still like he had been the
tight end coach. He had to be what twenty seven,
twenty eight years old? That is age well, but at
the time, were there some people looking at you a
little funny?

Speaker 3 (48:22):
I'm telling you, I think it costs a lot of
older guys like myself opportunities to coach again because now
everybody's going young. I don't make it. You know, if
I don't make him flordinator, he doesn't get that head job.
I don't think the floor is where he is. And
a cat at Miami and Zach Taylor, I mean, everybody
went young. But yeah, I got rid oficuled a lot
for that. But Sean was perfect for me because I

(48:42):
knew the players respected him, and he knew what he
was doing, and he he has a photograph. He remembers
things that I don't remember. At Cincinnati, Hey, remember you
called this play against the Giants on third and eight.
I go, what are you talking about? You know he
remembered that, so he was. It was perfect for him
to for me to implement Shawn his offense coordinator, to
marriage have a marriage between our two systems, and it

(49:04):
worked out pretty good. We're pretty good an offense there.
For a couple of years. We had Jordan Reed and
Chris Thompson on the backfield, and obviously Pierre and De
Shaun and jameson Crowder. We were pretty exciting at one
time and gotta get a little give a lot of
credit to him.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
And you were letting him call plays by the end,
weren't you At different times.

Speaker 3 (49:21):
It was because I was calling plays because I like
to call plays off the cuff. I don't like to
look at the script and call plays, but up up, up, up, up,
like a robot. I kind of call plays as soon
as it plays over. I know what I'm calling, I
call it. And I sometimes would call a play in
a running game like we would call our I runs
in the nineties series at Tampa, and they were a

(49:41):
teen series here, so sometimes I'd say ninety three week
or whatever. No, it's thirteen, and he'd be yelling in
my ear and be God, damn it, you just call
the plays and we would communicate and put together game
plan together. So I let him talk to the quarterback
because he was with the quarterbacks a lot more than
I was, which I really regret looking back. I didn't
spend as much time with the quarterback meetings as I
should have being a play caller because there were so

(50:02):
many other things to do. But it was it just
made more sense to let him talk to the quarterback,
and if I wanted to play, we would. I would
tell him what to run or whatever.

Speaker 2 (50:10):
When he was interviewed for the job, obviously you know
your family thinks really highly of him. You were working
with him and knew how smart he is. But the
transition for a guy thirty one thirty two, me and
him are about the same age. I remember thinking like,
this is not going to work, just having I worked
for Andy Reid, just knowing how hard it is for
a young guy, and let's face it, it probably couldn't
have gone much better over the course of his career.

(50:32):
Were you shocked, I mean, did you think it was
like you got to take the money. But man, this
is gonna be tough.

Speaker 3 (50:38):
Yeah, you know, it's always tough. He walked into a
great situation though. They had a number one pick and
Jared Goff at quarterback, and they're able to get Aaron
Donald and had some good players. I think they they
had Ramsey at corner, so he had a lot. He
had some pretty good players, you know, and Gurly Yeah, yeah,
pretty good players, you know. And some coaches aren't that fortunate.

(50:58):
You look at canals walking in a Carolina. I mean,
they got a lot of work to do. They need
about twenty five first round draft picks next year to
turn that thing around. And some teams are built a
little bit better than others when you get the job,
and you got to really be careful. A lot of
these coaches to become hit. I think Ben Johnson might
have done the right thing just waiting a year and
just seeing how these teams develop and what team he

(51:19):
might want to go to if he gets the opportunity.
The flip side is if you wait for the next job,
you may not get one if your team doesn't perform well.
So you got to strike while at Iron Scott if
you want to become a head job. But Seahn's a
smart guy, and I know he handles people extremely well,
and that's important. He's a great communicator to all kinds
of different people and a good motivator. So he was
an easy pick for to become a head coach.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
What about Kevin O'Connell, He damn sure looks the part right.
If you're going to cast a head coach or a
former quarterback in a movie, it'd probably be him. But
he's clearly damn good. And you know he was your
quarterback coach and your offensive coordinator.

Speaker 3 (51:52):
Yeah, Kevin's perfect. And I hired him at Washington because
he had a different background. He played for New England,
so he had that New England system. He worked with Kelly,
so he had a little bit of that offense in him.
I don't you know, I didn't like to just hire
guys that knew our stuff. I wanted to hire guys
that had a different knowledge of different systems. And it
was really good. He was a really good, good addition
to us, and obviously he took off. He's very similar

(52:13):
Sean a little bit different than Shawn's, a little bit
more upbeat, a little bit on the edge of a
seat guy, a little more energy Kevis a little bit
more laid back, but very bright, articulate and really good
communicator as well. Sometimes he talks a little too much,
I you know, come on, get it out, get it out.
But he's a great, great coach and understands the game.

Speaker 2 (52:32):
Well, you got the itch to get back on the sideline.

Speaker 3 (52:35):
I don't really, you know, I miss game day, watch
these guys on game day, but I know what it
takes going into the game, and physically my knee. I
just stand up at practice for two three hours and
was walk throughs and drawing the cards up. And those
long days. I can remember counting down to Wednesdays. Okay,
we have sixteen Wednesdays left. You know that's a grind.
And I miss the off seasons. I missed the scouting

(52:57):
part of it. I really loved studying film on college
guys in the draft and free agency and all that
stuff trying to build your team. I didn't get any
say in it, but it was fun to study and
make sure if they ever asked me who I wanted,
I was ready and I had the guy ready to go.
Had some say in some guys, but not as much
I would like to. And that's that's My favorite part
of the game is picking the players.

Speaker 2 (53:17):
What about working in Washington for Dan Snyder? Would you
say that aged you a little bit? Or was that
one of those that I'm glad I got to experience it.

Speaker 3 (53:25):
Yeah, you know, the first couple of years were rough,
you know, because of the RG three three thing. But
finally they gave in and understood and realized that Kirk
was a better player. So I got a hell of
a lot of heat for that. In fact, I think
I probably would get fired after my first year. The
second year, I think the higher Scott mccluan to fire me.
But fortunately we came back and beat the Buccaneers and
went on a playoff tear. We won like eight games

(53:46):
in a row, went to the playoffs that year. So
I actually made it another year and then got an extension.
But you know, for the most part, it was okay
working for me. Stayed out of it, but some of
the major decisions were you know, he'd kind of go
to Bruce and then they'd come back to me. Free
agency and the way we picked players I didn't really
agree with. We had a staff of player or coaches,
we had a staff of scouts, and we did a

(54:09):
lot of work and a lot of homework. I just
did like the fact that he would make the pick
even though he's the owner. I understand that. But if
he was in the meetings like Mike Brown was at
Cincinnati and listen to scouts and listen to coaches talk
and evaluate, then I would understand it. But I didn't
understand it the way he did it.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
Well, Jae, I appreciate you taking all the time and
go have fun on the putting green. Work on that
putting stroke, and you know you'll be breaking seventy five
before you know.

Speaker 3 (54:34):
Come back to the claw. You know, I went across
seat and I'm regular. I'm now on the claw. I
don't know what to do.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
Yeah, anytime you're on the claw, I know you got
a lot of things going through your head on the
pudding shrup. Okay, Jay, thanks man, have a good one.
Thank you. The volume