Colin Cowherd Podcast - Nick Wright on Bill Belichick Coaching UNC, NBA Needs Two MAJOR Changes, “Noisy” Wide Receivers

Colin’s joined by Nick Wright, host of “First Things First” on FS1!

They begin with the HUGE breaking news that Bill Belichick has signed a three year contract to coach football at the University of North Carolina and they express reservations with how this could affect his legacy and try to parse the reasons why he made the decision (4:00). They compare Belichick’s resume to Andy Reid’s to judge who will be considered greater in the long run (17:00).

They discuss the backlash from baseball purists towards MLB’s proposed “golden at-bat” rule when the sport has continually evolved over the years (30:00), and why “load management” and the over reliance on three pointers are going to hurt the popularity of the NBA if the league doesn’t make changes (37:00). They debate whether the emerging trend of “have’s and have not’s” in MLB is a problem (42:30), and whether college football needs to make changes to NIL and the transfer portal to avoid the same issue (54:00).

They talk about “noisy” star NFL wide receivers like Deebo Samuel and A.J. Brown, why the pendulum is swinging back towards the importance of star running backs and why huge contracts for receivers are headed for a correction (1:01:00).

Colin laments three rules NFL players don’t seem to know, why it drives him crazy and they debate whether the coach or player is at fault when mistakes happen (1:12:00). Finally, they discuss why parenting and coaching have shared qualities that lead to success and why despite at the height of his success Michael Jordan wasn’t happy (1:23:00). 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
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Speaker 2 (01:17):
Love to have him more.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Nick Wright, my buddy at FS one. We should say this.
This just broke before we did this twenty minutes before.
Bill Belichick three years, thirty million dollars will now coach
North Carolina. I've said before he won forty four percent
of his games in the NFL on two different teams

(01:40):
franchises without Tom Brady. I mean, you know, four or
five in Cleveland losing records first year, Bledsoe losing record,
last two years, No Brady losing record. And I think
the game culturally has changed. Players have more power. It's
more of an offensive league. I don't see him being
a huge hit in North Carolina the advantage. It's a

(02:02):
terrible conference. It's just it's really bad. There's now if
he went to the big ten of the SEC, I
think he'd get crushed. Do you think he has any
success at Carolina so well?

Speaker 2 (02:13):
I mean, listen, you obviously know the college game better
than I do. Uh And but I had a similar instinct,
which is the question is can you win the ACC
or hell, you know, can you come and just make
the ACC Championship game? Like the ACC got two teams
in the playoff this year, right, Clemson and SMU, so
like there's more than one. There's more than one path.

(02:35):
I my instant reaction was not really about how good
he's going to be at North Carolina. It's about how
shocking this is. And this is like, to me, at least,
this is shocking. I Colin, eleven months ago, you and
I on TV and on the pod talked about should
the following playoff teams, double digit win teams fire their

(03:00):
head coach to bring in Bill Belichick? The Dallas Cowboys,
the Philadelphia Eagles, the Buffalo Bills. It was a if
they collapsed type of thing when it looked like the
season was going going to go wrong. That was eleven
months ago for it to be us to narratively be there,
and now because I think he's yes, he's taking this

(03:23):
because Legacy and his son and I get that. But
I also think he got the message, buddy, you're probably
going to be shut out of the NFL coaching church again.
I assumed last year there would be a fight for
Bill Belichick. Instead, he got one interview in Atlanta and

(03:44):
they passed on him for a different defensive head coach.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
And so who had been fired? That to me is
who had been fired?

Speaker 2 (03:51):
Right? That to me is shocking. And you know, you
I don't want to say enjoy conspiracy seat theories because
that's not it, but you enjoy kind of as I do,
like why thinking about why did this happen? What could
be going on behind the scenes. I do wonder how

(04:13):
much poison was put in the ear of other NFL
owners by Robert Krafft. Yeah, because for Belichick to truly
believe no one is going to hire me, that to
me is that is shocking, like truly truly shocking to
where he preemptively takes this North Carolina job.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
Yeah. I think the message for me in this Belichick
reminds me of Bobby Knight is that Bobby Knight was
viewed in his prime as the best coach. He at
times could be gruff, you know, mean spirited. In the end,
could not grasp the new culture. Bobby Knight the one

(04:56):
and done, you know Belichick player empowerment rule changes which
Andy Reid has seamlessly bounced through like multiple different cultural
changes in the NFL. And then at the end, basically
Bobby Knight was just trying to get his son a
head coaching job, and nobody would offer this former genius

(05:18):
a job no legitimate school would. And that's Belichick, is
that now he's been reduced to now it's three years
and thirty million dollars, like Bobby Knight. Basically he's taking
this job to set his son up for a job
and can't get any legitimate offers. And I think it
here's the parallel, is that Bobby was all about retaining power,

(05:42):
and that was really at the heart of Bobby Knight's
strength as virtue and his hindrance late is that nobody
wanted to hire Bobby because you hadn't basically give total
control to him. And that's Bill's problem. His personnel decisions
are horrible. Now he's had a couple of defensive hits.
He hasn't drafted an offensive Pro Bowl level player probably

(06:03):
since Kronk. But it's it's the unwillingness of older successful
men to relinquish any power, the need for control.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
So so let me so I do at some point
because you're interested in this like I am, want to
discuss how we think Belichick versus Andy is going to
play out over the next three, five, ten years. But
before we go to that, one of the things that
I like doing when I'm on with you is kind
of you know, I don't want to say straying from sports,

(06:37):
but which go a lot of places. Does that worry you?
For you? And by that, I mean because I think
about it, which is like, man, so many legends across
so many industries.

Speaker 3 (06:55):
The ending sucks, like the the I the I thought
it was kind of unfair, and I vocally defended him
on the show, But I think about broadcasting that there
was in you know, in October, you know, there was
a raining chorus on social media of you know who sucks?

Speaker 2 (07:18):
Al Michaels and Bob Costas. Ye what are those guys doing?
And I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. These are
like the legends of the industry. But Al was getting
bad games, and people didn't like the way Bob called
baseball games, even though that's the way he called baseball
games forever. And I'm like, well, that's that's not a
great ending you brought up, Bobby Knight. I you know,

(07:40):
most people don't get or don't execute Johnny Carson, and
so when you see so many of these guys not
figuring out an exit, like what is I'm not talking
like you're not close to the end of your career.

Speaker 1 (07:57):
But you know what I.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
Mean, Like it's it bounced on my head, like why
does nobody be why are people not okay leaving? Like
He's accomplished everything, he's got all the money, he seems
to be happy socially, Like I don't, I don't get it.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
Yeah, and it's concerning, Well, what did Johnny Carson have?
Who had a great exit that the others didn't? Johnny
Carson Productions. That's why I created the volume. I will
manage and be an executive, not a broadcast on your
own company. Yeah, so, and I enjoyed do that, so
I created the volume largely so when networks are not interested,

(08:35):
I will move into a management position. And I love
that in a production position, that's what I like to do.

Speaker 2 (08:42):
So why do you? But so why do you think? Well,
I think it was not on the board for Bill
to be like when I'm done with the Patriots, I'm
just done, Like I have six super Bowls, I've made
twenty plus million for the last however many years, Like
I'm seventy years old. I evidently want to date incredibly

(09:02):
young women and travel Like why why is what that's
fascinating to me? Like why you wouldn't just call it.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
Yeah. He probably doesn't have a ton of hobbies, although
he does have a boat and he golfs, so he
has enough. It's a good question. If Tom Brady would
have left for Tampa and failed, I think he would
have been more comfortable just saying it's over. We were
great for each other and we were never quite the
same without each other. But Brady Jettison's the Patriots wins

(09:33):
a super Bowl first year with Tampa.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
And then almost wins an MVP and is also yeah,
and is better than he was his last couple of
years in New England.

Speaker 1 (09:41):
Yes, so I think that put that, and I don't
think Bill would acknowledge that, But they are linked forever. Yep.
Montana and Bill Walsh are linked forever, and Bird and
Magic on different teams are linked forever. And so I
think I think when Tom left and succeeded it puts it.

(10:03):
It raises doubt about a guy that had five years
in Cleveland, four of them losing lost in his first
year with Drew Bledsoe starting and lost two years in
a row, and kind of I mean Matt Patricia to
offensive coordinator, it was a bit of a tone deaf
clown show. And so I think I think I think
there's I think that's part of it. I think we

(10:27):
tend to and this is incredibly unhealthy. We tend to
compare ourselves to others. And I think it's just my
journey is much more Johnny Carson his production company, and oh,
I've told you this before. My idol is Oprah. It's
not a sportscaster, right, so her production company and Carson's

(10:48):
production company is much more attractive to me as an
ending than it is broadcasting when I'm seventy four.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
So yeah, I just I there's so many of and
you see it, I mean, you're seeing it, I feel
like right now with Aaron Rogers. Yeah, in a different way.
And you see it with athletes more and it feels different,
I guess because we're more used to it. And it's
just like, Okay, it's a young man's game. You're not
a young man. But it just I don't know if

(11:18):
it's the fame, attention, money being all kind of addictive,
but it is. Bill Belichick is probably going to be
coaching in the fucking Pop Tarts Bowl next year, and
that's that's that's unbelievable. Like, that's really unbelievable. When this

(11:43):
time last year, I was discussing should the Eagles preemptively
fire Nick Sirianni to hire Bill Belichick? Should the Bills
fire Shown McDermott just to be the first market for
Bill Belichick? And I don't know, man, Like, now, listen,

(12:04):
somebody will dig this clip up in thirty years when
I'm you know, when I'm doing Fortnite play by play
on Twitch because nobody else will give me a job,
They'll be like time comes for us all.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
But it is.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, it's it's stunning. It's really stunning. And and I
just I when I first saw the report a week
ago and shout out to Inside Carolina dot Com, which
beat everyone on this story by days every time. But
when I first saw it, I was like, oh, so

(12:38):
Inside Carolina dot Com is just as wrong as they
can be and don't care. Yeah, and then it's like, wait,
they're meeting in Manhattan for five hours. Wait he made
a four hundred page organizational bible, like, oh, this is
gonna happen, and now it's happening, which does bring me
so the the Andy Reid thing. I only some people

(13:00):
realize how close it is the Shula record. So Andy's
at two ninety six, Shola is at three forty seven.
Belichick's at three thirty three. So Andy is fifty one
wins away. He has. Prior to this year, he had
coached Mahomes for six years. They had ninety wins regular

(13:20):
season and playoffs those six years, that's exactly fifteen a year.
So if Andy coaches, you know, for three more years,
he should be right there. And if he coaches for four,
he'll have it. He's five playoff wins behind Bill. He'll
get that in the next Siy would have, which is
really remarkable when you consider you you'd think it would
be thirty behind. It's remarkable, it's and so that's so

(13:47):
he's going to unless he retires, and he just signed
a new five year, one hundred million dollar deal, he's
gonna catch him in playoff wins and in regular season wins.
Let's just say he doesn't catch him in super bowls.
Let's be conservative and say the Chiefs only win two
of the next four and that and then he's done

(14:09):
and he retires with five. Man, I think what's more
compelling the one more super Bowl and that Belichick was
three to zero against Andy in the playoffs, which counts
including a super Bowl, or that Andy won divisions with
four different quarterbacks at double digit win seasons with four

(14:33):
different quarterbacks, made a super Bowl with a good but
not great quarterback, and Belichick one, as you put it,
forty five percent of his games across a decade of coaching. Yeah,
plus when he didn't have you know one, they both
had the two greatest quarterbacks ever one two two one.

(14:55):
I think history is going to look more fondly upon Andy. Well,
and You've saying this for a year.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
I've been saying if the CTE lawsuit had happened ten
years earlier, Andy Reid would have a couple more Super
Bowls and would be viewed as the best coach because
things that were not only allowed, but were promoted during
many of Belichick's years. Vicious head hunting hits, they were
promoted coming coming up Sunday, outlawed the minute the game

(15:28):
was the vicious violent hits were outlawed, which they should
have been. If you look at medical concerns twenty five
years earlier, that Belichick would have one or two or three,
and that Andy would have six or seven or eight.
I really believe that. So I think what it comes
down to is a timing. Jeff Bezos would have been

(15:53):
really successful, but the Internet and the retail giant allows
him to be beyond the greatest bookstore owner ever, he
is the greatest global retailer ever. So I think the
timing is a big part of life. And I think
Belichick is the beneficiary of a league which allowed basically

(16:16):
the rules favor because years ago, thirty, forty, fifty years ago,
what we considered great football was running backs and pounding
hits and vicious tackles, and then you realized over time, wow,
this is a bad look. We're losing lawsuits. What people
really love is great quarterback play and offensive efficiency, and

(16:38):
that's what drives the ratings. And so there's far more
on television today and the audience and the platforms are broader,
yet the ratings are greater than ever. How is that
possible because the game is more aesthetically pleasing than thirty
years ago. If you watch an old NFL game, it's
kind of boring. I mean it's like four sets, seven plays.
So as we have more options, it's one of the

(17:00):
only sports for the ratings of skyrocketed over twenty five
years and so the game now is it's purest and
most aesthetically perfect, and Andy dominates the league. In fact,
he not only dominates the league, but he often embarrasses
the league. I think the only other coach in the
league that has the ability to quickly make things great

(17:20):
Sean Payton. Now, Shanahan's great, but he gets very tied
to his play sheet. He can struggle lay in games.
What Sean Payton's doing in Denver is WHOA what is
happening here in that division? Like with a thin roster
that was picked to win five games? And remember he
went to the Saints. They were the Aints, they were
worse than the Jets, and first year I think they

(17:43):
got to the NFC Championship. So I mean Sean Payton
and Andy. The difference is one has Mahomes, one has Grease.
Both great, one transformational, the best talent all time, but
both great. So I think I do consider you know,
it's like saying Picasso or Monet if art only appreciated
one for one time and another for another era. But

(18:05):
I do think Andy's I think when I look at
Andy and contextualize both, I'm like his ability to win
more ways with more unique teams and coaches. Belichick, by
the way, and always almost always went back to the
same coaches. He had a system and it worked with
one quarterback, well twofold one is.

Speaker 2 (18:27):
And again I don't know how much people weigh what
was your coaching tree and their success, right, but Andy's
coaching tree is like that to me, is like when
we talk about great coaches historically and it's like, well,
how much do you weigh that Mike Shanahan ultimately like
his coaching tree is Kyle's, which is mcveigh's, which is

(18:50):
the whole league, like you know what I mean, Like
that's got a way in his greatness Andy. So that
that part of Andy's thing where Bill obviously most of
the guy who had the most success of his coaching
tree as our friend Eric. And other than that, it's
a lot of like really dim l like the people
say Bill O'Brien, But Bill O'Brien wasn't really his coaching

(19:12):
tree as much or right. He went to college first,
I guess he was. Who's the person, oh, Vrabel, Bill
O'Brien is his coaching tree. Verrabel people assigned to him,
but Rabel never coached for him ver Abel played for him,
went to Ohio State and it's now the coach there. Uh.
But the other point that I wanted to make was Andy,
did seem or does seem to guarantee you a floor

(19:35):
that's like eight wins?

Speaker 1 (19:37):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (19:38):
And Bill we've seen on the front end, in the
middle with bloodsoe and on the back end, did not
like now I do. I think he's the greatest defensive
mind ever. And I'm not trying to like shit talk
a guy who's, you know, clearly right now is the
greatest coaching resume ever. But when I do wonder, and
this is the last thing I'll say on it, did

(20:00):
he have held out hope I'm going to get an
NFL job if he was more convinced if I get
Shula's record, I'm keeping it? Or did that not become
as important when he's like hold on him in?

Speaker 1 (20:16):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (20:17):
So if I passed Shula in twenty twenty six and
then Andy laughs me in twenty twenty seven, what is it? Yeah?
What you know? What I mean? Why does that matter
as much?

Speaker 1 (20:29):
He wasn't getting great offers like Harbaugh got a Bosa,
a left tackle and Herbert and a non medaling owner.
That's a good job. Bill wasn't getting those orders. If
Philadelphia was offered, I think he'd stay for six years
because Howie Roseman Jeffrey Lourie a great roster. But when
you're getting bad offers, then he can look at it
and go. So I'll be a loser in Cleveland, I'll

(20:49):
be a loser in blank and.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
I only want to New Orleans right right?

Speaker 1 (20:53):
But think about this. What if here's I'll cap it
with this. Let's say Belichick and Andy Reader music producers.
One creates the greatest band ever, but in two or
three other bands he bombs. Andy Reid has a great band,
but several other memorable quality bands as a producer, and

(21:17):
you'd go, well, maybe maybe the reason the one guy
had the greatest band he had the greatest lead singer.
But this guy created multiple bands that are all time
memorable musical acts and no.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
Flopslop, no flops matters to me about this today, and
Wilds got angry with you. Wild's like nobody cares about
how many losing seasons the guy had. I'm like, well, okay,
maybe I was like, but they both coach for insane
length of period time. Andy has three losing seasons and

(21:51):
Bill has eight that is that's not nothing. It's not everything,
but it's not nothing, right, it's something there.

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Speaker 1 (23:23):
So let me throw this at you. This is not
a baseball topic. We don't talk a lot about it,
but it's fascinating to me. So I'm agnostic on many things.
I'm kind of an agnostic personality, from religion to almost anything.
I tend to be just sort of I weigh information
and I pick the side. I like, I don't have
a lot of purity in me right Like, I don't
have a lot of loyalty outside of my wife and

(23:45):
my children and friends. But so baseball comes out with
this golden bat concept where basically you could bryce Harper
gets an extra at bat every game, or an Aaron Judge.
You don't have to use it, but you can in
a critical situation. And purists are bothered by this, and
I'm fascinated by what purists are holding on to. And

(24:07):
I've heard baseball people say, oh, I'll never watch another
baseball game, as if Sandy Kofax's historic run is deluded
by a new golden bat. At that concept in twenty
twenty four, it's it's almost like saying it's not perfectly analogous,
but gay marriage ruins the sanctity of previous marriage. Well,

(24:27):
if you had a great marriage for forty years, what
does it have to do.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
But also, I will also say anybody that like, we've
all come to terms with the guy that most people
feel like, probably correctly is the greatest baseball player ever
played at a time when a lot of the greatest
baseball players ever were not allowed to be in the
league because they were black or Hispanic. Yeah, and it's

(24:52):
just like, hey, we know that's part of the record book.
Try we know, like there's people have an ability. No
nobody with a brain looks back and it's like, hey,
I checked Terry Bradshaw's stats. Dude sucks. It's like no,
it's like, I know that's what the record, but like
those what the numbers are. But we all understand intuitively, oh,

(25:16):
that was a different era. So if we were to
have a golden at bat era and it's like, holy shit,
a lot of three home run games out of nowhere,
it's like, oh yeah, because they change the rules. People
are smarter than we, like, we give them crush.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
But that's what I'm asking. We had the cattle steroid era,
so all the records are power records are meaning us
and nobody really knows who took it. I mean seriously,
it's like trying to figure out which rich people chitted
on their taxes. How about we start with all of them? Right?
Like who knows? So my take is, what are purests
holding onto? Are these forty eight year old men who

(25:53):
still collect baseball cards? Like the idea? So the sport
makes two changes both crush, defensive shift eliminated and at pitchclock. Okay, yep,
So all of a sudden, the defensive shift more base hips. Well,
that's messing with the previous six eight years, right.

Speaker 2 (26:13):
And the thing closest to the Golden at bad is
the ghost runner ghost runner thing which you know in
made baseball cooler for the regular season. You don't want
to put in the playoffs. That's fine.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
So what are purest holding onto that are outraged by
a new concept? Well, I don't understand.

Speaker 2 (26:33):
I'm not the the I mean, I understand them, I
don't agree with them because ultimately, what my one of
my fundamental beliefs that bothers I think purists. But it's
not even a belief, it's just a fact. Sports are
simply entertainment product. That's right, That's all it is. We

(26:56):
are part of the entertainment industry. We are in We
are fighting for attention and relevance in sports. And there
is nothing inherently more valuable, moral, ethical important to American
professional football than American Ultimate frisbee. But one is the

(27:21):
most valuable television property in the world and the other
is something the best in the world at almost assuredly
needs a real job because it doesn't pay the bills.
So why is that Because people like watching one and
don't care about the other. That's exclusively one. There is
no other reason. And the idea that you have a

(27:45):
birthright to people's attention. Go ask Corse racing, go ask boxing.
You don't and so all of these sorts. So here's
the real reason I love the Golden A bad idea.
I like baseball, I love basketball, and I'm worried about basketball.

(28:06):
I am legitimately worried about the NBA game because they
have two massive issues that everyone knows is a problem,
and I don't know that they have the stomach to
address them. For the change that's neat one is one
that's been talked about a ton historically, which is the

(28:28):
load management, superstars not playing whatever it is. I will
give a quick anecdote on why that's my thoughts on that,
then I'll get to the real thing. I was in
LA for seventy two hours over Thanksgiving because our son
lives there and he couldn't.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
We brought thanks even to him essentially that Friday night.

Speaker 2 (28:49):
Lakers thunder yep, And I'm like, you know what, My
wife's grandparents are with us. They're ninety one and ninety three.
They love love Lebron had never seen him play, and
I'm like, you know, what's the point of making money
if you don't spend it on stuff like this? So
I bought six tickets, not courtside, but first row behind

(29:12):
court side. Not cheap, right, But what it was like,
it's a I bought him at noon with full confidence. Well,
Lebron's gonna play because Lebron plays, you know what I mean?
Like Lebron did he get hurt last night? Then he's
playing like even though he's the oldest guy in the league.
And if it were any other superstar, I would have

(29:38):
when my wife mentioned to me, should we do it?
I would have said yes, But let's wait until like
five o'clock to find out. That's terrible for the business.
The other thing that is getting a lot of attention
is the NBA's at its core. The NBA's popularity is
based on is that dude flying? Holy shit? Liked not

(30:01):
here's another thirty five footer And strategically, just like the shift,
strategically was smart, but from a television product, it was
a disaster.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
Everybody looks the same to every game, every possession, every.

Speaker 2 (30:14):
Name looks the same. There's no different styles, there's no anything.
And we're minimizing athleticism. Yes, John Moriant goes on the record,
is like I'm done dunking Anthony Everwards, taking thirteen three
is a game. It's clearly a disasters a disaster. And
so when I say massive changes, what I mean is

(30:36):
have a real conversation about hey, dunks are also worth
three now?

Speaker 1 (30:42):
Or care what it does for this two suggestions one
and I said this seven years ago on the air
and had a graphic take out the corner three. It's
impossible to defend.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
Yes, okay that that agreed. That should be done tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (30:57):
Yeah, so it goes right into the bench you put it,
you moved out of about six inches.

Speaker 2 (31:01):
A real art.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
Yep, make it a real art. Yes, And so that's
just much easier to defend it. You can be on
players or this would be my This is something I've
thought about as well, and I don't know. I think
you could do this is that you get fifteen a game.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
That's what I said, Yeah, yes, okay, exactly right, whatever
the number is. That's the other thing I was the
fifteen game.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
Offense.

Speaker 2 (31:28):
And by the way, you can still shoot them after that,
but they're worth two. There's Kurt Goldsberry had the idea
years ago that I thought was fascinating, which was, you
know how baseball stadiums everyone picks their own dimensions. You

(31:48):
got a green monster, you got the short portray. Yankee Stadium,
Royal Stadium is cavernous. Kurt Goldsberry says, each year, every
team draws their three point line, and if you like,
no and the I and I know that sounds ridiculous,
but his point was some teams will be like, we

(32:10):
don't have one. Well, that's not who we are. We're
building a old school beat you up. You know what
I mean, big big man style. The the Blazers when
they had prime Dame Lillard might have been like ours
is from thirty seven feet out because we have the
one guy who can. And if that were the case,

(32:32):
you would have you would know, man, I'd better be
able to play a bunch of different ways, score a
bunch of different ways, because shit tonight we're in Oklahoma
City and there's no threes whatever. So I don't know
the exact right answer. What I know is this, if
the NBA does not make a massive change, it is

(32:55):
in huge troubles. Because they have they have still they're
still suckling off the teat of lebron Steph kd your
most pop John.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
Moran and Aunt Edwards do not dunk the one of
the I mean the Jordan logo. If you really think
of even Doctor Jay's highlights today, Connie Hockins when I was.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
A kid, of course joined it's and the here was
another question that.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
Oh, let me tell this that this was I said
this about the NFL. I said, can you imagine if
the NFL only allowed the tush push and bombs. There's
no intermediates, no bubble screens. It's just power running or bombs.
That's the NBA. It's not as a PA.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
And by the way, the NFL, one year into the
tush push, it was like, we're looking into banning. Yes,
And it wasn't because of safety. It was because that's
terrible TV. That's bad for our products. It's not excite,
it's ugly, and ultimately we're a TV show. And so

(34:05):
I don't I don't know the answer, but I do
know that continuing down this path is disastrous.

Speaker 3 (34:13):
So I.

Speaker 2 (34:14):
Would love it if baseball did something drastic, because then
I think there is the NBA would look at itself
hopefully and be like, well, the NFL every year, it's like, hey,
rule change, figure it out. Hip drop tackle. I'd never
heard that term three years ago. Last year it was

(34:35):
the most dangerous things ever happened in the sport. This
year it's gone like defenseless receiver to hit the quarterback low,
Tom Brady. Tom Brady blows out his knee. They're like,
massive rule change. You now no longer hit the quarterback low.
Doesn't matter. Aaron Rodgers breaks his collar bone. They're like, hey,
you can't fall on quarterbacks now either. Don't care if
you don't like it. Baseball's making changes. The NBA is

(34:56):
just like, can we interest you in in a new
All Star game format? And it's like, bro, that's not
the issue here. And here's one other NBA question. I
didn't I forgot who first posed this, but every since
I read it, I'm like, oh, that's interesting. Is there

(35:17):
a single NBA player under thirty that is more famous
than Caitlin Clark?

Speaker 1 (35:29):
No, no, there's not. There's not.

Speaker 2 (35:32):
That's a problem. That's a problem.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
Well, are the okay, so this is something that's a problem.
So Baseball. I believe I've said this on the air.
I talked more baseball last year than I ever have,
and I believe baseball is going to have, let me
lay this out, is going to have a renaissance.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
And I totally agree with this take.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
By the way, case I totally number one, because the
regional sports networks died. The bottom of the sport is
now Triple A Baseball, and they cannot afford even even
good players. They can barely afford. So it's getting very
top think about that. It's getting very top heavy. That's great.
Remember networks don't care. They only televise seven teams and

(36:12):
a thirty percent of the revenue comes from networks. And
you say, oh, it hurts attendant, But remember when you
bring in all star teams, did you see how old
Tawny Betson Freeman drove road attendance. So now you're going
to have Lindoor and Sodo driving road attendants, Machado tatists
in San Diego, Judge and Stanton. So you get a
series of five or six super teams. Well, when the

(36:34):
Yankees had Jeter and a Rod, they led the league
every year in road attendance and their own So my
take is the sport's getting insanely the gap now it's
like the inequity of wealth in America. It's just widening
and widening. So that's not a terrible thing because what's
happening now is the only cities that can afford the
big stars New York, La Philly and the richest of owners.

(36:58):
The San Diego Group has has been able to monetize
some retail outlets and the stadium, and so what's happening is, yes,
it'll be dominated by six teams. TV networks don't care.
They're almost overwhelmingly either the richest owners or the bigger cities.
So I'm looking at the Dodgers and I'm like, do
I really want the Joey Vado model or the Joe Mauer?

(37:20):
Will you go to Seattle? And nobody can. They can't
afford anybody beyond Robinson Cano. It's a bad product.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
So at least the.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
Stars now are joining other stars, and people forget this.
You know, when Jordan dominated the NBA, there were no
other great teams. There were teams that could tackle them
for several years. But when the Celtics and the Piston's age,
it was a bunch of Portland's Utahs.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
They were just.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
There was run team. But that team was so enlightening
and so it was such a star studded team. It
drove attendance everywhere they went. Every night it was just
it was Sports Center, it was the lead and so
my kak is baseball and let me fish. Baseball has
this now, they have like all star teams the NBA

(38:10):
Wemby San Antonio, SJA, Oklahoma, Jokic, Denver, Jannis, Milwaukee, and Minnesota.
Unlike baseball, they're in the wrong markets.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
Well, and the NBA just just last year massively changed
the rules proactively to make sure super teams can't exist anymore,
which mistake. Theoretically right, theoretically you understand it, but ultimately
probably a mistake. It gives cheap owners and out like, oh,

(38:43):
what do you want me to do? Like Dent, what
Denver has done to Jokicic's prime is they win a
title and then each year they're like, let's lose this
key player. Let's lose that key player, and what do
you want from us? Poor guy had one hundred and
two points, thirty rebounds, sixteen assists over two games. They
only won one of them. Guy average fifty fifteen and

(39:05):
eight over two games, one of their losses to the Wizards.
So that and here's the other reason why I don't
think it's bad for baseball because even with everything, you
just said, Baseball still is just random enough that a
team like the Royals this year got made the playoffs

(39:26):
one around, stole a game from the Yankees, and it's like,
there's not going to be You're not gonna feel like,
oh you you're oh my season, I can't compete, like
because the baseball kind of adding variants to the playoffs.
I went into that Royals Yankees series like, Okay, we
have two players who would play for them, but we

(39:47):
got like a forty percent chance of flipping them. Yeah,
like you know what I mean. The takes one good
starting pitching night one night and we could win. So
I didn't feel like we were dead. And so yeah,
I found baseball this year. We talked more baseball on
the show than ever before. Now that was a very
low bar because our previous high was zero. However, still

(40:11):
but still like it was. It's not like it was
forced on us. It was exciting. It's like, yo, we
have judged Verstani and the damn World Series like this
is dope. And so I agree with you. And that's
another reason the NBA should be worried, Like and I
I don't know, man, I have my concerns about whether

(40:35):
or not Adam Silver is a wartime consuliari or even
knows there's a war going on. And I think he's
super sharp and a lot of things and the right
man for a lot of jobs. But right now, I
think you have to be willing to say we actively
don't care about the record book because the other if

(40:58):
they wanted to one other thing. And I've said this
for literally I said it for the first time at
the Sloan Sports Analytics Conference seven years ago because I
saw the strength coming down the tracks. Because I'm like
my buddy Daryl Morey, I think is the smartest guy
in the league, and he clearly believes we should only
shoot threes, free throws and layups. So eventually everyone's gonna

(41:21):
think this, and then what's it going to do? And
my solution then, in my solution now is if you
want to change nothing about the rules of the sport,
then all you have to do is say it's not
threes and twos, it's fours and threes because now it's
only a thirty three percent premium. Now you know what
I mean? All those things. But there's two reasons they

(41:43):
won't do that. One is people can't do math. People
were like what the fuck like AD four And the
other reason is it would ruin the record books. But
you can't be worried about the record books and paralyzed
by them.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
And it's insane.

Speaker 2 (42:03):
It's insane, especially when like, hey man, if your Hall
of Fame doesn't have Barry Bonds in it, like, what's
the museum you're protecting anyway? Does it?

Speaker 3 (42:14):
Like?

Speaker 2 (42:14):
And so yeah, I agree with you.

Speaker 1 (42:16):
On Thursday Night Football is on. It's only on Prime Video,
best season yet, packed with big rivalries and even bigger
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you can't miss. Coverage begins at seven Eastern with Football's
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not a Prime member, no problem, sign up thirty day

(42:38):
free trial, cancel any time Thursday Night Football and it's
on Prime Video. Restrictions apply. See Amazon dot Com slash
Amazon Prime for details. One of the things I think
that we both enjoy is the why. And I like
the construction and deconstruction of part some sports. So for

(43:01):
years and years and for years and years, you know,
everybody howled that we needed to pay the college football players,
and because their careers are shorter than baseball and basketball
and hockey players. I agree, like, let's pay these guys,
and we have, and a lot of people don't like it.
I'm never watching the game again, but the ratings go up.
Protesters by and large have very little influence and are

(43:22):
just throwing temper tantrums. Right. So, but I was going
to throw this out there the other day. It is
kind of remarkable now that college football. Pro football has
a salary cap, right. Pro football has times that you
can lead transfer slash go to free agency. College has neither.

(43:48):
So the trains completely got off the tracks. So with
the nil, my take is, listen, Texas can spend thirty,
Purdue can spend two. Let's say that the cap and
Purdue will never get to it, but make the cap seventeen.
Otherwise it's gonna become baseball in HGH, like you're not
even Produe's gonna have no elite players. Texas will have

(44:09):
thirty eight. And there's always been an imbalance in college football.
But let's put up some guard rail so all the
kids get paid, but the but the you know, let's
just say eighteen because some schools now have broken through
the twenty they're getting close to twenty eight and thirty and.

Speaker 2 (44:23):
And well, hell BYU basketball just paid a kid seven
million bucks. It's I mean, so, here's so I have
a different Here's the question I have. Are we approaching
a time where none, where there is? What's the good

(44:49):
example for this? Not Ashton genty he's gonna be a
top ten pick. If you are, you're like, hey, I'm
the second best running back in college football. Stay there,
I've checked my draft profile. Question they say I'm a
second third round pick. Well, let me check those contracts.

(45:12):
That's six hundred grand a year. Well that's crazy because
nil at Michigan will pay me three million for real,
Because running back in college football, you're still a star,
like you're the like, so are there going to be?
It won't happen with quarterbacks that are you know, and
I obviously like, but where guys that aren't. And by

(45:36):
the way, I don't know that that's bad. That might
be really good saying. It'll be a fascinating thing. I
think where guys who are like, wait, I can make
more money staying in college.

Speaker 1 (45:45):
It will fortify college football because it's already happening now.
Because I've talked to coaches who have said, this is
a discussion point for running backs. We can pay a
three forty, you can make two eighty and you and
you're not by the way, you're not a twelve year
NFL player, but you can be a legend at Blank University.

(46:05):
And so it's happen. It's happening right now, and I
think it actually benefits college football. You're gonna keep more players.
It may be two players a roster, but if you're
like a top receiver to school at Tulsa and you're
a six round pick and Tulsa's like, we'll pay you
eight hundred thousand dollars, well, you're ye making your in

(46:27):
pro football.

Speaker 2 (46:29):
And not guaranteed and they're not cares, not guaranteed contracts.
Like I do think there's going to be real. I
think it'll be fascinating when a player who is considered like,
oh wait, that guy, he's the number one safety in
the draft, and the people are like, okay, he's gonna

(46:52):
go late first, early second, and he's like, all right,
well I can wait on that. I'm you know what
I mean, I'm gonna here. And again, I don't think
that's bad. To be very clear, I just think it's
a fascinating dynamic. I also so I I wish I
had the the kid's name, but I did see a video.

(47:15):
There was the first time I started to feel actually
like uneasy about the nil stuff was there was a
kid in this latest signing class who I'm gonna get it.
I'm gonna get the proper nowns wrong, but just follow
me on it. Let's for the sake of argument, say
he signed with Georgia and at the announcement he made

(47:38):
it very clear he was sad, and he was like, yeah,
you know, I never thought I'd go be going here
my whole life. You know, I dreamed of playing at LSU.
What And again I might have the George LSU part wrong,
but school a school beat. And then when I looked
it up LSU and this offered him a scholarship. It

(48:00):
is a five star kid, but it was purely like
And what made me feel bad was I was like,
was he making this decision or were like the adults
and his family pressuring him? But it was clearly this
place offered more money, So I felt like I had
to go there. And I was like, oh, that kind
of sucks, you know what I mean, Like you always
dreamt of playing for this college. You're seventeen years old,

(48:22):
and it's like, well, this place is offering me two million,
and this place offering me three million, and my family
is probably right, Like I can't turn down a million dollars,
so I guess I'll go here. And that part of
it did make it feel like, uh, that's not perfect. No,
Like this isn't the this isn't perfect. It's better than

(48:43):
to me than it was. This is better than the
kids getting no money and everyone else getting rich. But
we haven't quite found homeostasis here yet. Not the right
way to do it.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
It's just the duality of everything with more money, more money,
more problems. You're this idea that there was this ball halla,
there was this perfect landing spot. It does not exist.
I'll tell you something that's fascinating. Here's something I talked.
I led my show with us today and unfortunately, I'm
sure you probably didn't have time for it. You used
to listen religiously, but those days are over. But the

(49:16):
point being, no, I that's true. So I led with
this today. Deebo Samuel Brock pretty comes out and says
you know, I love Debo and we'll get in the
ball more. And I thought, oh, okay, so a year ago,
nine months ago, running backs are dead in this league.
The top five running teams now in the league are
all playoff teams. The top six receivers receiving yards, six

(49:40):
of the top ten round losing teams. And so it's
it's DeVante Adams cryptic messages. Jamar Chase is noisy, it's
elite neighbors. It's Deebo Samuel, it's Deontay Johnson, it's George Pickens.

Speaker 2 (49:53):
So it's even Aj Brown, by the way, on a
good team. Everything was fine, and then he's like, I'm.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
Pissed, and I said it's not fine, And I said,
we gave receivers for about two years the keys to
the kingdom. But they are sports cars. They don't work
well in the winner. You can't really drive them seven
days a week. And running back this is you've loved
this take and running backs no, no, no, they're the suv

(50:21):
year round, grocery, soccer practice date all weather. Actually always
elevate the quarterback, always young quarterback, old quarterback. They're also great.
They help you take leads and eat the clock and
help you protect them. The receivers, don't they all block
or they don't play. They're the grinders. They're the most

(50:44):
running back Saquon Barkley, I want the ball more, but
I'm sacrificing for the team. They never you never hear
a running back complaining we're throwing it too much to
the star receiver. And it's a classic example is that
we gave it's the NBA position of NFL wide receiver
rakes the huddle first, he's on his own. We gave
you the keys for like two years. We immediately had

(51:05):
a wide receiver Bubble Chiefs win without Tyreek Hill. You
can argue they can spend money on defense. They're just
a much better team now, more complete team. And in
the end, it goes back nine months ago we lamented
the future of running backs. It is now in one
season Baltimore, Detroit, Green Bay, Washington. Here comes Isaiah Pacheco,

(51:25):
the Rams, Kiren wioms it is a running back quarterback
league again in nine months.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
So so that was and I didn't see it coming
this quickly up. But what I did wonder was I
was like, Okay, one of the things that happened to
running backs was yes, the game changed, but the other
it wasn't just that the game changed. It wasn't just

(51:51):
your position isn't as valuable. It was there's too many
B minuses, meaning like there you could seemingly find a
not great but a good running back anywhere, practice squad,
seventh round, undrafted free agent like. And the reason for
that was very obvious, which is our whole lives the

(52:15):
best athlete at seven years old? Where'd they put them?
Running back?

Speaker 1 (52:21):
Like?

Speaker 2 (52:21):
If it wasn't the quarter like it was like, oh,
you're the best player on the team. We're gonna if
we're if you're either gonna be a dual threat quarterback
or the running back, because we're going to hand you
the ball a bunch. So in high school and college
there were just too many good ones, which means seems like, okay,
I could pay X for a great one or basically
nothing for a good one, so I'll do that. And

(52:44):
what I wondered aloud was are we about to see
in a few years the same thing happened to receivers,
because now if you're a great athlete as a kid,
they're putting you at receiving It is seven on seven
every damn year in the draft. This year there were

(53:04):
ten receivers taken in the first forty picks. And then
when we're like hold on that, everybody thinks there are
twenty five top ten receivers, Like if you really put
pencil to paper and it's like, okay, is he a
top ten receiver? Well, I don't know, man, because the
Garrett Wilson thinks he is, DeVante Adams thinks he is,

(53:27):
Tyreek Hill thinks he is, Jayleen Waddle thinks he is.
There's four just in the AFC East, and you keep
going is Terry mclaurins, Nico Collins Is, Deebo Samuels, Brandon
ayuk Is and I've mentioned Tyreek Hill, Jamar Chase AJ Brown,
CD lamb a Mon Like there's all of these, it's like,
well they're thirty million a person. But Brian Thomas Junior

(53:49):
was the fourth receiver taken, So like, is there going
to be the same type of correction where teams are like, no,
I'm not paying thirty million for RECEI there's six more
great ones coming out in the draft, Like I'm just
not doing it right. So I saw that, I wondered
if that was happening. I still think that's probably going

(54:10):
to happen. The other thing that has happened this season
is and maybe I'm maybe this is just because I
turned forty and I instantly developed old man opinions. But
Malik Neighbors being a diva receiver as a rookie, yea infuriated. Yeah, no,

(54:30):
it's too much, and like in a way, it's too much, man,
say like, listen, I get that's there's been a we're
allowed to be divas, so we kind of lean into
it from the position. Got it, so be it no problem.
But t O and o Jo Sinko were not pains
in the ass their first year in the league. We're

(54:51):
gat they weren't like they were great, and then they
and then they developed over three or four or five years. Yes,
once they had else on the wall, I see, I'm like, man, everywhere,
I look like George Pickens, an awesome player, huge pain
in the ass from day one. Pick Malik Neighbors. It

(55:12):
took him eight games before he's like, why didn't I
get the ball to or down thirty? Nothing? It's like, buddy,
you're the best player on the team. I get it,
but you it's too early for this, it's too early,
and so the and then the AJ Brown thing really
irritated me on a just a team level. It's like, man,

(55:35):
there there was nothing wrong. Everything. You guys are on
a ten game winning streak, you're you guys are undefeated
when you playing there Seemingly everything's all good. The only
public narrative should be, man, Sakuon Barkley's gonna spreak, Eric

(55:57):
Dickerson's record, and our defense is better than you idiots
thought it would be. And then privately, if you want
to be like god, damn it, so be it. But
it's that was like AJ Brown, you're on your third contract, Yeah,
you just got paid again. What are we doing?

Speaker 1 (56:17):
Here's what his issue is. He was overshadowed by a
star running back in Tennessee, Derrick Henry, and he's overshadowed
again with a star running back. No great receiver has
been overshadowed in his prime by the two best receivers
over the last six years in the league. He's the guy.

Speaker 2 (56:38):
Oh, that's interesting. I didn't even think about that.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
He's so he keeps going to places going timeout. I
get a good quarterback, not a great one. Tannehill Jalen,
I'm the best player on the team and both become
run centric. What are you doing to my career?

Speaker 2 (56:54):
You right, but the but the but here's the here's
the thing about that. But you keep getting paid any like,
you keep getting top of the market.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
Deal well, and but money every time. You know, I'm
not gonna speak for anybody, but when people get raises,
it's good for about three checks and then you're like,
I want the respect. Guys are driven much more more
respect than they are money.

Speaker 2 (57:17):
I know that part. I totally agree with I the
and I agree with you the whenever, like somebody loses
a job or whatever and the reaction on Twitter is
either still getting paid or whatever. I disagree with that
because for someone who has been a j in it,

(57:38):
it's gonna sound like I'm contradicting myself. But I'll come around.
He's been He's not newly rich. He's been rich long
enough that that's his normal. Yeah, so the money doesn't
really solve things. The point I'm making is I would
understand it a little bit more if you were in
a contract year. If it's like, yo, you're costing me

(57:58):
much because but the Eagles preemptively paid him this offseason early.
And one of the reasons I would think you do
that is to stave this all right, Like, hey, no
matter how we have to run the team, you're gonna
know you've been taken care of. So even if this
year your numbers are down, it's not costing you anything

(58:19):
because we just paid you. So that's the reason I
brought it up, Like I do get why guys who
are in contract years are like yo, no.

Speaker 1 (58:25):
I mean aj bra number is being selfish. Because also
the NFL record book nobody cares. It's not like baseball.
It really isn't. Nobody cares about the NFL record but
we know Brady and Jerry, Rice and Montana and Mahomes
are all over it, like and Breeze. So like a
wide receiver, like, listen, we know you're great. If you
get paid and you win a ring, it kind of
solves everything.

Speaker 2 (58:46):
Well that's and also like if there's anyone on the like,
could you imagine and this is to your point if
after this last game, Saquan out of nowhere in the
locker room was like, yeah, I mean, listen, everything's great,
but I'm really sick of jail and sniping my touchdown,

(59:06):
I should have ten more Like, how about we call
a handoff at the one instead of the Toushbush people
would be like that, you laugh because it's laughable to
think of him doing it.

Speaker 1 (59:19):
But it's but we're used to receivers being ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (59:22):
We're totally used to it, one hundred percent used to it,
like the yeah, I mean, I don't, I can't. I
can't even bad ones Kadarius Tony, this dope, he's bounced.
He just wants to He barely got on the field
in Cleveland Fair caught a punt and taunted a guy.

(59:43):
It's like you just have it in your DNA, like
you just have It's it's unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (59:49):
So this is we got into a point. This was
a topic on the show that was fascinating and and
I've always said in the in my industry I work in,
I don't know how to use all the levers in
the control room, but I do know the words I
can't say on the air. I understand the bible of
my business. And I also have an understanding, having worked

(01:00:12):
for ESPN and Fox, not to go after commissioners personally,
although I can criticize them and have criticized all of them.
There are certain things I know. I don't expect football
players to know all the rules, but I'll give you
three that drive me crazy. So the Cowboys block upon
against Cincinnati. And when a punt is blocked and goes

(01:00:35):
past the line of scrimmage, it's a punt. You treat
it like a punt. Do you blame the player or
the special teams coach? Because special teams players are often
guys who are inserted late. They actually play.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
That guy who was that guy who did it? It was
his first NFL game?

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
Okay. You often are like a backup corner. You just
got off the field. Now you're special teams. You're worrying
about your assignments here, not your assignment's there. So the
other things that drive me crazy are Tyreek Hill. I've
seen this a few times when you do the often
used dolphin backwards pass like the bubble screen, and they
and the ball skips and they don't pounce on it.

(01:01:15):
They don't understand it's a live ball. The other one
is when a receiver catches a ball downfield and the
dB moves past him, doesn't touch him, and people forget
you have to.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
Touch Okay, yeah, well that's a college football relic.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
Okay, yeah, yeah, So there's those are men, so all
three of these and I'm not a rule breaker, so
maybe I'm more of a rule follower. It drives me
crazy when you don't know the basics of the game. Now,
Kyle Shanahan apparently forgot or didn't advise his team on
the Super Bowl overtime rule, which Andy Reid did. That's

(01:01:51):
a coaching gaff. But let me ask you, do you
blame the coach or the player when a rule that
can change possessions outcomes so players don't know it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
So I'll go through each of your examples. The backwards
pass thing, I I think that play being such a
prominent piece of so many teams playbook is one of
the dumbest things that exists in sports. Like if if

(01:02:25):
it's there because you're playing as a trick play double pass, right,
so be it. But if that is just a swing
pass to not coach your guys, Hey guys, this must
be executed forward is baffling because it's you're gaining that

(01:02:47):
you gain nothing strategically from it. That the yard difference
between it being lateral or backwards versus forward, but the
risk is, oh, you could just pick it up an
run for a touchdown versus it being an incomplete pass.
So yes, guys should pounce on it, and I always
think it's crazy when they don't. Also, I don't know

(01:03:08):
why so many teams love that stupid you know, like
for pre wheel route backwards pass, like what are you doing?
That can end in disaster? I hate it. It's the
opposite of the little shovel pass in front of you,
which is, oh, even if you drop it, it looks like a.

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
Fumble, but it's not.

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
That's the opposite of that, right, So that's first one.
The not touching guys when they're down is to me
not a coaching thing. That is purely on the players.
Like everyone knows once you get to the NFL you
got to touch them. Sometimes guys, it almost seems like
a void, like try to avoid hitting the guy, Like

(01:03:47):
it's bizarre. The Cowboys thing on.

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
The punt special teams are queer, they're quirky, they're different.
And here's where I will blame the coach I did.

Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
Yeah, so if you member the Cowboys, who were they playing?
It was the it was one of the games they won.
It was the insane game. They almost blew and they
they it went back and forth. Is that was it Washing?
It was Washington. They give up the hail Mary short
hail Mary, but then set whatever it is if you remember,

(01:04:22):
on sidekick, they recover it and instead of going down,
run thirty yards for a touchdown, which then gave Washington
the ball down eight and a chance to actually beat them.
When that happened, the coaches were celebrating, and I'm like, oh,

(01:04:45):
you guys, are that guy who God love him? That
was the wrong play. You were up one, there's a
minute left. When you recover that on sidekick, you go
down and the the game is over. You recovered it, scored.
Now we got to go back on defense. And Washington

(01:05:06):
almost beat him because of it. But the coach is
all celebrated. You saw it on the sideline, So what
the hell do you expect. Two weeks later, a different
special teams guy sees a bouncing ball and seemingly open air,
I'm gonna scoop this and go score. That's coaching. That

(01:05:28):
to me is coaching like. And so I don't blame
that kid nearly as much as I blame the coaches
in that spot, especially because this is an old man
genie line. Don't ignore in victory what you wouldn't ignore
in defeat. Like I don't believe that the kid who
recovered the on side kick and scored instead of going
down got, you know, in trouble for it. I think

(01:05:49):
he got out of boys for it, which then it
signals to the team, Hey, even if it's the wrong play,
if I make it right, it's fine. And that's like
the opposite the Belichick thing of guys who if they
reached for the pylon, even if it was successful, got
in trouble, yeah, because it was like the risk reward
here is not right.

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
I think a lot of football axioms and truths are
parenting that if my kids does something dangerous and survives,
I still I still offer wisdom and will punish him.
Sometimes you could have been really hurt. Many of the
truths and parenting are truths and coaching, and that is
treat you know, that's right, right, Be respectful, right right,

(01:06:43):
Be nice to others. Treat others like you'd like to
be treated, Be coachable, don't cheat.

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
Try to learn wherever you can, like, respect people who've
been there before, and see what wisdom they have.

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
Of course, I use sports. I bet I once a day.
I will use sports athletes as examples in my business
life and my broadcasting career. I use it all the
time with my kids. One of the things I've always said,
I told my daughter this once. I said, Michael Jordan
was the best player, had the best marketing commissioner loved him,

(01:07:22):
had the best coach, was the best looking, was the
most stylish, And watched the documentary. It was hard. It
was incredibly difficult. That's for the most gifted, with a
commissioner that loved him, Nike one hundred years ahead of everywhere,
the best agent. He still had an owner, he had

(01:07:44):
a GM, he had Goofy, Dennis Rodman, he had teammates
that were did not play to his liking. And I
use this all the time in life. There's a reason
there's like one Elon Musk and there's a reason, like
there's a reason for Trump success. He's just a goddamn fighter.

Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
Like him or not.

Speaker 1 (01:08:03):
He just doesn't sleep, he doesn't make it. He's never vacation.
He's never had a vacation day Like life is hard
and one of the great maybe the greatest asset any
of us can have. It's not education. It's relentlessness. Is
that it is not linear for Jordan, it's not it
wasn't linear for Brady. Maybe you look at Brady and

(01:08:26):
you're like the best coach, the best own. So it's
it's and we're seeing now some pushback on how much
academics matter. They obviously matter, and they can separate people,
but it is a relentlessness. A lot of people from
Harbord don't succeed, and a lot of people from eastern
Washington have great lives, right, And I and I and
I so I think, I use, I use I think
about how much of parenting is sports and how much

(01:08:50):
of sports is life. And I use them and I
use the Jordan documentary with my kids multiple times.

Speaker 2 (01:08:55):
Well, and the other thing with the Jordan documentary is
like it no matter no matter how much success money fame.
Jordan was at peak success money fame, and in nineteen

(01:09:18):
ninety three was so seemingly kind of lost, sad and
miserable that he quit his sport to go do something insane,
which was like the lesson for me on that is
like and now he had dealt with a you know,
his father was murdered and he was dealing with a
personal tragedy, real stuff, and I think there were. But

(01:09:40):
if you in that documentary, a modern Shad tells us
he was talking about doing that before his dad got murdered,
and so he was already. So the one of the
lessons for me on that is, like, man, this some
some of the professional stuff or other stuff. If you

(01:10:03):
have a hole in you or are missing something or whatever,
it's not gonna fill it. Like the only way to
fix your issues or to you know, feel joy or
good about things, whatever, is to really look at why
you're not going to do it. And so the idea
that you can achieve your way out of your own stuff,

(01:10:26):
you just can't. Because how many of like the use
the Jordan documentary like he is and he I don't
think ever got there like that. People look at that
Jordan Hall of Fame speech, it's like the ultimate Michael
Jordan thing, and I look at it as one of
the saddest things in sports, Like this is the guy

(01:10:51):
who at the time was universally, unambiguously accepted as the
greatest ever maybe the most famous person in the world
at the times, like him, the Pope whoever the press
like the very very short list, infinite, endless money, and

(01:11:12):
at his final real public appearance as a basketball player,
he just was a vindictive asshole because whatever whatever it
was in him that fueled him, but that also was
real hurt or pain he never addressed. Yeah, right or

(01:11:35):
I and I don't even know if I agree it's
not solvable. I don't think he ever tried to solve it,
and so like the and then like so you see
these things and you're like, man, like that ain't gonna
do it for you, like if Michael Jordan ain't doesn't
have it, Like that's not gonna And so I mean
you mentioned you mentioned Trump. Trump wealthy beyond anyone's wildest imaginations,

(01:12:01):
did everything that you know, he was always wanted to,
I think, kind of prove his dad wrong, did all that,
then became president and just pissed all the time, just
just like nobody's got it worse than me, everyone's else.
It can be seeming like legit seemingly miserable, like it
just like and so whatever, like some of it's if

(01:12:24):
you got if you need to deal with something and
you don't like it, and still it doesn't go away. Like,
no matter what you achieve, it's still sitting there. It's
still sitting there waiting for you at the end of it.
And so yeah, like that is that? That is? Uh?

(01:12:44):
The Jordan doc really crystallized that. When you saw it,
You're like, man, I don't think this dude's happy. He's rich,
he's famous, he's Michael Jordan doesn't seem happy and certainly
wasn't during the process.

Speaker 1 (01:12:56):
So or whatever that's worth Nick, right, perfect. I don't
like to great exhaust every idea because I want to
get you more regularly. But your your career is bit
between poker and your career and your podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:13:10):
Speaking of poker, going to the Atlantis Resort and Casino
in the Bahamas for thirty six hours.

Speaker 1 (01:13:19):
Oh good for you.

Speaker 2 (01:13:21):
Well, it's no vacation, it's they're the biggest poker turn
in the world's going on down there. So I'm going
there Friday or Saturday morning, coming back Sunday. Take Oh
it's not you know, I'll share this with you and
the audience not actually playing. It's you know, it's a
it's a potential partnership meeting that I'm having down there.

Speaker 1 (01:13:44):
Good for you.

Speaker 2 (01:13:46):
So so doing that for you. Yes, but uh but
I yeah. So the poker stuff's going good, show's going good.
I miss you and we'll do this more often, I'm
sure of it. I'll talk to you soon, brother.

Speaker 1 (01:14:01):
The Volume