Colin Cowherd Podcast - Ohio State COOKS The Ducks, Texas Barely Escapes ASU, Can PSU Win It All? Saquon Sitting Out

Colin’s joined by John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out” to break down the College Football Playoff and the top storylines from the NFL! 

They start with the Oregon Ducks being absolutely cooked by Ohio State in the Rose Bowl and why Ohio State looks to be in a class of their own compared to the rest of the field (3:30). 

They discuss the controversial non-call for targeting in the Arizona State/Texas game that likely changes the outcome and why they both hate the targeting rule (14:30). They laud the Arizona State coaching staff for taking a much more talented Texas team down to the wire, and attempt to dissect why Steve Sarkisian’s teams look “loose” (25:00).

They debate whether Penn State can win the national championship (34:00) and what to make of Ashton Jeanty and Drew Aller as NFL prospects (37:00). 

They pivot to the NFL and start with why it doesn’t bother them that Saquon Barkley is sitting out the final game of the season with the single season rushing record in reach (47:00). Colin labels Brock Purdy an “if” quarterback where he can only succeed “if” things go well around him and discuss what the 49ers should do with him going forward (53:15).

Finally, they weigh in on Colts GM Chris Ballard potentially being in danger of losing his job and why the Colts should cut ties with quarterback Anthony Richardson just two years after being drafted #4 overall (1:09:00). 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
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(00:26):
All right, John Middlecoff and I are doing a special
edition Wednesday afternoon podcast. It'll range from will Chris Ballard
survive with the Colts, brought Purdy's dismal showing against the
Lions in the second half, Saquon Barkley resting that's at
the end of it. Let's start with college football. So
listen to Ohio State's leading thirty four to nothing at half,

(00:48):
and John and I decided it's a good time to
do the podcast, So listen to thirteen member committee selected,
you know, the teams to get in. And this is
what bureau crats and you know, people who are political create,
is that nobody thought SMU and Boise State they didn't

(01:08):
look the part in the regular season. You know, they
play in weaker conferences. But the thing that really outraged
me was Oregon's first game against the winner of Ohio
State Tennessee, which is a much tougher path than Penn
State gets against SMU and Boise State. So the failing
of the committee and committees are created to innately fail.

(01:33):
I mean, it's thirteen different people with thirteen different opinions.
We know juries in this country have let the wrong
people walk in my life. I just look at Oregon
season and they were the best team on the field,
and it's very hard to ask somebody to beat somebody
for a second time. I picked Ohio State to win it.

(01:54):
I didn't think it would look like this. But that's
not the inclusion of Boise State or SMU. This is
what bothered me.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah, I mean, I clearly Oregon got a raw deal,
but let's face at the Walhio State has played the
first game and the way they look in the second game,
I don't think anyone would sniff them right now. They
would beat everyone in the country easily. But I hear you,
I mean, I think part of it is they were
so there's so much cya of not getting sued. We
had to include a non Power four program, and Boise

(02:24):
showed out decently. I thought, yeah, right, And so today
a shoe who plays in a Power five conference, but
we all look at Big twelve like, are they any good? Right?
I think you could argue also Oregon, these teams, you're
all tied in with the bulls, with this money, so
many people with their hands in the cookie jar. How
does Oregon not get a home game? How do these
teams Texas? I mean, it's a pretty big advantage to

(02:45):
play in these neutral site games. What's the point of
playing all season?

Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, I mean Oregon did not get a home game.
That to me is just you gotta be kidding me.
I mean Notre Dame lost to a directional school and
got one. It's crazy, not even a good directional school.
Let's talk about Ohio State and listen, when you go
to a movie, if you went to a movie that
took a while to build up but the ending was great,
I always thought that was usual suspects. It's a good movie,

(03:10):
you go home feeling great. If a movie starts fast
and dies out, you never feel satisfied. College football now
has a bigger, more dynamic ending to the season. But
it does, and we knew this was coming. John. It's
not that the regular season doesn't matter, but Ohio State
not only lost a horrible game, they lost it late,

(03:33):
and they looked like garbage against Michigan, and they still
got in. Now, I don't have a problem with them
getting in. I don't mind the regular season meaningless because
I'm still going to watch the games. I watch the NFL.
I know that you can start off one and four
and make the playoffs. I still watch the games. I
think we put I think the narrative that it's going
to kill college football. College football ratings this year were good.

(03:55):
It's just what it means is if you're a good
team with lots of blowouts, you can even lose a
really ugly game late and.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
You get in.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
And my take is, yeah, the Kansas City Chiefs lost
to the Raiders late in the season last year and
won the Super Bowl. You shouldn't be punished severely if
you're excellent just because you lose in November and not
in September. So I'm that part of it has never
bothered me that the regular season will mean less. I'm
still watching the games.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
I think there's a magnifying glass. I was just thinking,
to listen to you talk. I don't think there's a
game that actually means more. A non playoff game in
college football or the NFL, than Ohio State versus Michigan.
I think it's clearly separated as the game that means
the most. Saban recently went off. He can't comprehend because
even in his mind he was able to make every
game the same, even though they had Auburn as one

(04:53):
of the biggest rivalries in college football. Tennessee is a
big rivalry, but it never felt any different than when
they played Ole Miss than when they played LSU. He
was BELICHICKI in that way, every opponent meant a lot.
At Ohio State, it just doesn't. I mean even Ryan
Day said like this can never happen again. That was
three days before they lost, you know, so the emphasis
that has been put on that game, and I think

(05:13):
Harbaugh helped take it to another level. And then Ryan
Day starting to lose, and I just think that game
feels like five games in one and then the way
they lost, and in fairness, you watch Michigan twenty four
hours ago against Alabama. Now, I understand Alabama had some
opt outs. They look pretty good, They're coming to play.
They have a defensive coordinator that makes two and a
half million dollars that was just coaching at Baltimore a

(05:34):
couple of years ago and was viewed as one of
the best defensive minds in football. So it's like, that's
a real, real defense, and I just think, you look
at that game, it was hard not to overreact. Yeah,
but it might have just been as simple as the
coaching staff, specifically Ryan, the players they got a little
tight because the way they've looked now, it's like a looseness.
We have been talking about their roster and the talent

(05:55):
on their team. Like, to me, the difference of them
in Texas Texas man for man is low is as
well their quarterback. I'm sorry, I just don't trust on
a play and play. Yeah, Will Howard's playing pretty well
right now. Yeah, but the Will Howard we have seen
in the first playoff game and the second playoff game
is gonna look like this. They're just not gonna lose, right,
And they have a wide receiver, an eighteen year old kid.
It looks like you weighs two hundred and thirty pounds.

(06:16):
That is unstoppable. Listen, Like Oregon's not trying to cover him,
they just can't.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
You're you're a former NFL scout because Travis Hunter wants
to go both ways. If you told me today Caleb
Downs and Jeremiah Smith and the Buckeyes were in this draft,
I would take them one and two in any order.
Because Travis Hunter I do not like this high profile
want to play both sides of the ball. Eventually, you're

(06:42):
gonna have to pick a side. I think Caleb Downs
is a better corner than Travis Hunter. I think he's
one of the best college players I've seen in the backfield.
I'm not kidding when I say this. I was told
by an NFL general manager that Caleb Downs will be
the number one pick next year. He said, I don't
care who in proofs he goes outside of a star quarterback,

(07:03):
and we may have one. If Drew Allert Penn State flourishes,
he may come out this year, next year, whatever. But
Jeremiah Smith and Caleb Downs, and they're not eligible for
the draft. Those guys are not college players. They're pros
playing on Saturday. Like So, my takeaway is Ohio State

(07:23):
has two players, one on both sides. They're just not
college players. I felt this about Jamar Chase at LSU.
It's like, Okay, that's not a college player. It's a
pro playing on Saturdays. If he was a basketball player,
he'd be in the NBA.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
I think the problem with Travis Hunter, and I saw
Dion say this within the last month, do not draft
him if you don't embrace him playing both ways, because
that's the game plan. And to me, Dion not only
speaks as his coach, it feels like he speaks as
his parent, feels like he speaks as his agent, like
that's his representation for Travis Hunter. And I do think
that's going to be complicated because he is truly dead
set on that and based on what he's doing in college,

(07:59):
I understand that. Said, I don't believe it can work
because of the wear and tear. Same you know same.
But like you say, those other two guys like just
have defined roles. It's very defined because I my thing
with Travis Hunter is if you're my best corner, my
best wide receiver, If you get injured, I lose two players.
You know were those other guys you also get rest?

(08:19):
So I yeah, I hear you, Jeremiah Smith thing, I
don't remember seeing a wide receiver this dominant this early,
where his body type was that physically developed.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
Yeah, I mean it.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
Reminds me it looks so big.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
When I was a sportscaster in Las Vegas, I covered
Larry Johnson, the basketball player at UNLV, and that was
before weightlifting was a part of EEP sports in general.
I mean, it was out there, but it wasn't like
basketball players weren't spending a lot of time in the gym.
But Larry Johnson was so physically dominant that at the
college level, you got twenty six points just on putbacks,

(08:52):
just on second opportunities. He weighs. He weighed forty five
pounds more than other forwards and was stronger than all
of them.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
So I just look.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
And here's the thing about Will Howard. I mean to me,
he's a big, strong kid who's mobile. So he's a
draftable player.

Speaker 2 (09:07):
You know.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
I saw him play at Kansas State. I thought, that's
a big, strong kid. Now you give him star players.
I don't know if he's an NFL starter, but I
think right now, Ohio State has the best combination of
coaching and talent. Whether they have better talent than Georgia
or Texas, you know who knows. But last year Michigan

(09:28):
only had like three five star guys. Alabama had like eighteen.
You know, Georgia has fifteen over the last couple of years.
So talent's hard to do. You get the most out
of your talent. But I don't think we're overreacting to
say that the last two games, Ohio State's hitting harder,
they're more explosive. They don't look these these games. They're

(09:51):
intimidating Oregon. They intimidated Tennessee. They look like Tyson at
twenty one years old, like other big men fear him
in the ring. Ohio State looks. I think Oregon like
surrendered about eight minutes in. It was like it was over.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
Well, the irony was was when the other game ended
and you came right to the game and it was
seven to nothing and you're like, whoa, We're just there's
a minute end of the game. And then followers like, yeah,
it was a two place, seventy yard drive. You're like, oh,
that's gonna be a problem. But we had just seen
the same thing with Texas and then they slowed down immediately.
Ohio State, their foot never came off the pedal. I

(10:29):
do wonder if after because they tried to get into
a heavyweight fight with Michigan instead of just slinging the
rock around where Michigan wouldn't slow them down, and they
lost in a bit them and I think everyone called
out their manhood and their toughness, like you think you're
a tough program. We've seen you against this Harbaugh level operation,
and I would say Michigan still has that soul in
them the way they play, and you're not as tough

(10:50):
as them, and they go, we are a tough team.
We've paid a premium for all these guys. I mean,
you see the physicality and the speed in which they
have and it's almost like they got to reset and
take it personal because they've come out with a violence
that you just haven't seen in college football.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
I mean, I tak a perfect one perfect word is violent.
They look violent defensively.

Speaker 2 (11:10):
We'll see it hopefully this you know, Georgia Notre Dame
game actually gets played. But I think there's only one
other team that can truly match their violence, and that's
Georgia and we saw them do that. I think the
first time they played Texas in Austin. You're like, Jesus,
that's what Ohio State has come out on defense, because
we know offensively, if they just are playing A B
minus B plus you know somewhere in the B they
don't even need an A game. They're gonna be hard

(11:31):
to beat because they can score points. If their defense
is gonna look like this, I mean, good good luck.
Because Georgia doesn't have that explosion. Obviously, Notre Dame doesn't
have that explosion. Texas, you just can't trust. Their offense
just goes through terrible spurts. Penn State. I think it's
probably the one team would be comfortable because they've seen them,
they know their personnel wouldn't be intimidated by them. But

(11:52):
that's they still got a You know, we got a
long way to go before we get that matchup.

Speaker 1 (11:56):
Let's let's talk about Texas thirty nine Arizona State thirty
one in double overtime. So let's not Let's just start
with the targeting infraction that wasn't called and that gave Texas.
It was a that gave Texas an opportunity because in
my opinion, if they call targeting, which it looked like

(12:18):
to me, then Arizona State. Do you believe they go
on to win the game.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
Well, I think it would have changed. Yeah, I mean,
it would have dramatically changed the situation.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
All right, So targeting, I looked it up. It's forcible
contact with an opponent that goes beyond illegal tackle. The
rule is intended to reduce concussions, and you can't lead
with the crown of your helmet. Well that's three for
three targeting. I almost felt like watching the game that
referees didn't want to decide it that the crown of

(12:53):
the helmet because if it's forcible contact with an opponent
that goes beyond a legal tackle, well, a legal tackle,
you can't lead with a helmet. It was helmet on helmet. Yeah,
I felt like officials thought, you know what, it wasn't
necessarily the crown of the helmet. It was more helmet
on helmet. And there are helmet on helmet hits a

(13:14):
lot in college football and pro football that aren't called.
But I thought the officials, I think in the first
quarter that's more of a targeting. I think in the
third quarter it's targeting. I thought in that moment, refs
were like, it's almost like NBA refs in a playoff game,
Game seven, they're gonna give you more contact. They do
not want. The NBA Finals decided the free throw.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
Line, yeah to me. In college football, they call that
every time. Yes, I got the there was a play
earlier in the game or the second half where Arizona
State picks yours and the other player last second, the
other defender turns his body but still takes out the
wide receiver. Massive collision. I think ninety five percent of
the time they call that. And I was gonna throw

(13:53):
up if they had called that, because that would have
dramatically changed the game as well, and I was surprised
honestly they didn't. But I think the moment they didn't
call that, and you could say, well he turned last yek,
he still took him out. His head flew back. They
called that. I watched college football for three straight months.
That's called every single every time, which I hate. I
hate targeting because I hate the rule. In general. College

(14:14):
football is way more punitive than the NFL because they
kicked these kids out for a game and then they
missed the half of the next game. Most of these
guys aren't ed reed, they're not going to the NFL,
so they only get to start a couple of years
in college. I think we have moved past this point
of five ten years ago. The CTE, the lawsuits, It
has been coached out of the game. No one is
trying to injure anybody. And I think all this stuff,

(14:37):
it's the game has played so quickly. We saw it
a couple weeks ago when Trevor Lawrence slid and the
dude from the Houston Texans al Shire took him out.
No one's trying to hurt anybody these things. It's so
easy to judge everything from your couch. This has been
coached out of the game, actively coached out of the game,
from the lowest levels up through the NFL. I think

(14:58):
we need to get rid of it, honestly. Yeah, in general,
I hate even having these debates. It should just be
like forever it wasn't called and then they overreacted because
the CTE lawsuits and now the level of hard hits
to me are so few and far between, and even
when they happen, it's more just because you have two
athletes running at rapid speed and that play when yours

(15:20):
was picked and that kid ran into him, like what
was he supposed to do? Float away? And even on
the Texas kid, the balls tipped like he's not trying
to hurt him, he's just trying to tackle him. He's
trying to make a play. You and I, I just
think we need to get rid of that rule in general.
I freaking hate it.

Speaker 1 (15:34):
Yeah, So, I mean you and I both believe it
is targeting. We both hate the rule. I wouldn't have
called it, but I would never call it, And I
hate the punitive nature. In the NFL. They experiment with
calls in the preseason. They'll over be overly punitive on
a call in the preseason and early September. Just have
you ever noticed that in the NFL, if it's a
certain call and they're they're creating it, they'll go really,

(15:55):
they'll make a point, a point of emphasis in the
preseason in early September, and then they'll scale back. In college.
You know you don't before this year, you kick a
great player out of a big game, you lose the game,
you're done, you can't play for a Natty. So you
and I both agree, is I thought it was targeting.

Speaker 2 (16:13):
Think of the standards too. You're holding nineteen and twenty
year old guys too. It's like these guys, no one's
trying to hurt anybody. In twenty twenty four, I believe
that to my core, So I think we need to
get rid of it personally, but I doubt that's gonna happen.

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Speaker 2 (17:44):
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Speaker 1 (17:51):
Two takeaways. First, Kenny Dillingham, who was an offensive coordinator
briefly at three schools, is a sensational coach. They had
five hundred and ten yards, They had twenty eight to
seventeen first down advantage, ninety seven to sixty play advantage,
twenty eight to seventeen first down edge. And I don't
believe they have a five star athlete one the level

(18:13):
of coaching. And you know what I like, they don't.
I mean, cam Scutibo is one Division one offer. Now
he's gonna end up getting drafted. As you've talked about,
this is the best running back draft in a long time. Jesus,
I mean, good God, the Penn State has that Singleton kid.
He didn't get talked about instead of Ashton Genty. If

(18:36):
Singleton goes to the right team with a better offensive line,
he could end up being the better running back in
the NFL. So there's just running backs everywhere. But I mean,
I like Sam Levitt a lot. He's a very young quarterback.
He will be a pro six two and a half
to ten dual threat mobile. You know. Again, you can
see him and think, oh, that's what a pro is

(18:57):
going to look like in two years. I think he's
like twenty years old in two years, and so the
quarterback's good. But to have that kind of dominance thirty
seven to twenty two minute time of advantage when Texas
has I bet you at least sixteen fourteen to sixteen
five star guys and forty four star guys. To me,
I thought if I was Sart coming out of that game,

(19:19):
I'd be a little embarrassed. I thought it was a
coaching mismatch.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
Yeah. I thought he even kind of mentioned that, like
that was we got to play a lot better. He
was in his postgame interview on the field, it looked
like he was pretty show shocked. I mean, at one
point in time it was fourth and thirteen. I mean
it's basically fourth in Texas or the game's over and
then they score that touchdown on the DP ball. Yeah, geez, Louise.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
You know one thing, you know, the Boise State team
that we saw play Penn State is not as good
as Chris Peterson's Boisese teams. They just have an all
time great player. Yep. This ASU team. The more and
more I watched them today reminded me a lot of
those Chris Peterson teams because probably has more guys that
you realize that it probably end up going like sixth,
seventh round. And they just had a grittiness and a

(20:05):
toughness to him. The quarterback was really fantastic. I mean
he had to pull plays out of his you know what,
just to give them an opportunity. Yeah, and that running back,
I mean, I thought, listen to hype on him. This
kind of easy for everyone to latch onto this white
guy running guys over. He might have had the flu
or something today because he was clearly sucking some win
and thrown up. He single handedly gives them an edge

(20:28):
and obviously the double pass, but he was freaking fantastic
and frank against those guys.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
Thirty you know, carries one hundred and forty three yards.
I watched him and I thought I would He's the
guy that played for Tampa years ago, the.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
Big stot Mike Alstott.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yeah, it's like he is a there's a Mike Allstock component.
I think he's got a little better speed. Maybe he doesn't,
but he's a kid. I think he's out of like
Sacramento or something. He had like one, yeah, one scholarship offer.
That is a pro. But I think Dillingham, you know,
he grew up a chandler Arizona. He always wanted to
be Arizona State's coach. This is his dream job. This

(21:10):
is not a stepping stone, like, this is the job
he always wanted. And it's cool because I think Arizona
States always been one of those programs. We think it's
a little bit of a sleeping giant, like why aren't
they better? And I think they found they're Chris Peterson.
I think they found a brilliant coach. But the Texas
thing and I wrote this down and listen, Sark Saban

(21:34):
loved him. Washington had a good ad that loved him.
USC hired him. Texas is ad. Chris Decante is maybe
the smartest ad in the country. Smart people higher sark okay,
John like three schools with big football brands have hired him.
NFL teams liked him, Saban loved him. We know he's

(21:56):
a good coach, but one of the things, and we
know he can plays. I mean they have. I thought
today they had a couple of different crisis situations where
they had good scheme plays. But I will say his
teams feel loose. So it's easy from a couch from
somebody to say he's overrated. But if Saban thinks you're
a good coach, and he won. He won an Assistant

(22:18):
of the Year in college under Saban, and he's had
three different programs hire him, and again he may end
up in the national you know, I mean this, this
guy is in the right spot, right he's in the playoff.
How do you define him? My knock on him is
that his teams always look loose, like they're just not

(22:39):
buttoned up, which is interesting because he coached under Saban,
who's the opposite. That's my take, and I don't know,
I don't know what his comp is, but I just
feel like too many times on the passing game, it's
a jump ball, like he doesn't have defined reads. Too
often it's just like, let's just get better players and

(23:01):
throw a ball at the sideline. Is that yours are sark?

Speaker 2 (23:04):
Yeah? To me, I've been as critical and sark as
anyone over the years. I've been an astronomical amount of
money when my guy did bor played him last year
and I thought that was it should have been easier.
But I'm going to defend him here. I think you
can look at yours box score. It doesn't look that bad.
He's twenty to thirty three, twenty two. To me, he's
a liability, and I just I mean it for the
talent that they have, because the one knock you've had

(23:26):
on sark, if you've just watched them coach over the
year's like a kind of a soft operation, a little
like Lincoln Riley, Well, he pivoted pretty well, use that
check book. Their defense is not soft. I mean look today.
I mean the way they got back into the game
was a freak double pass where the guy's covered and
he comes back. Scottaboo underthrows him. You know, I I
the kicker missed a couple kicks. I mean it hadn't

(23:48):
he been nails all season long? Yeah, so it's a
little freakish the way they came back. I mean that
game was one for the ages with the stuff. I
think you look at quinn Ewers, who again, if you
just look at the box score, doesn't look that terrible.
This a national championship roster without a National championship quarterback.
I actually think Sark has grown a lot. I think
he tries to call plays around this player. Sometimes. I

(24:12):
think he gets into situations where he doesn't trust him.
You know, that's the thing with Dilley Ham Like they
have full trust in that court doesn't have a choice,
you know. I think sometimes you just like, hey, we
could just run some bubble screens. Our athletes are better
than your athletes, right and sometimes for whatever reason, how
this team fifty three yards rushing fifty three yards rushing
as ansu like you would think with the amount of

(24:32):
talent they have on their offensive line and the talent
they have it running back. If you would have said
what do they rush for coming into this ASU game,
I would have said easily one hundred and forty yards
and they just had it wasn't working. They just abandoned
it and Asu selling out, like make Quinn, you weers
beat us, which ironically kind of did in the overtime
because you didn't cover anyone in the end zone. But
for most part, the reason they got back into it

(24:53):
the interception. How many times this year have Texas been
in a position where they can really put the nail
on the coffin and Quinn you were, turns the ball over,
or they're down in a game against George they're coming
back and he turns the ball over. There is just
an element of I mean, if he was an NFL player,
he would be highly highly criticized, and I would imagine
the Texas reddit community, in the football community. He's a

(25:14):
pretty polarizing guy, and everyone's like, we're going to arch
banding next year. Know if fans or budts about it.
If I was a Texas fan, I'd be like, well,
why is he just playing right now? Because if he's
as good as everyone says he's going to be and
he's a manning, I mean, who the only team that
I've seen that could even remotely play with us would
be Ohio State. We can't beat Ohio State with this player.
That's what I would be thinking. And there's a loyalty
and listen, I think this is where coaches sometimes are

(25:36):
different than personnel people, definitely different fans. They're very loyal
to a guy. Clearly, him and Quinn have a long
standing relationship. Now he's roaded with them this long. They've
had a lot of success. Right last year they were
in the playoffs. This year they're now in the Final four.
But man, I think you have this great I mean,
they're defense. How many of those guys look like NFL
players and they have freshmen that look like they're gonna

(25:56):
be top ten picks. And what are they going to
be against Ohio State? Would you guess a six point underdog?

Speaker 1 (26:01):
Oh? Yeah, I would. That's a that's a great question.
I I would take Ohio State minus six. To me,
I wouldn't take Texas until we got into like seven
and a half. Yeah, you know, it's just funny.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
These thought it was offenses. Texas offense has been their problem.
Their defense for the most part this year has been fantastic.
And to me, it's not sark. It's the quarterback. Because
the quarterback is just not that good relative to what
they their standard and the way they're playing. I mean,
if they had some of these quarterbacks that we've seen

(26:37):
in college football over the years, the guys Bama has had,
the Joe Burrows, the Trevor Lawrence's, I mean, I think
this we'd be looking at Texas, Ohio State like equals.
But when you have a quarterback who's just not I
mean that picky through was just terrible. And even who's
Jesse Palmer's, like, you can't put that much air under
the ball. And ASU's DB's are not. You know, Deon

(26:58):
Sanders ned Reid back there, you just make he does
it all the time. His interceptions are really really bad. Guy.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
Yeah. Penn State thirty one, Boise State fourteen. Boise State,
for the record, had the ball in the red zone.
I counted four times, it could have been five, and
didn't get any points. So Penn State gave them multiple
opportunities to make that game much closer. Boise State had
a touchdown that was called back because of a holding penalty,

(27:27):
so it was thirty one to fourteen, but it was
it didn't look like a blowout. I mean, there was
multiple opportunities for Boys game. It was a good game,
so it's really interesting. So first of all, Carter is
a top five player. He got banged up. Great player
Nick Singleton, who was like a Gatorade player the year
in high school. He's going to be a stud Pro

(27:49):
running back Drew Aller is fascinating, big guy, big arm.
There are stories out there that NFL scouts think he
may still go pro, and many say he would go
number one simply on arm, strength and size. Can I
look at Penn State and I have great respect for

(28:10):
the program, but they remind me a little bit of
a poor man's Ohio State. They're just never quite they
don't have quite as many NFL guys, They're just not
quite as good. People criticize James Franklin, but the guy
wonted Vandy, so he's fine. He's a great recruiter. Can
Penn State win the Natty?

Speaker 2 (28:31):
I think they need Carter to be healthy because early
in that game he had won pass rusher like Holy
that looks like Micah Parsons in number eleven. And then
when you go with the other guys, I told you
I think last week, I think they could win the
whole thing. But he's I mean, you lose a top
five player, I don't care how good your recruiting is.
It's pretty damn good. That'd be a big blow. But
how good does Warren look? The running backs look fantastic,

(28:53):
the quarterbacks playing great? Is to you just trust James Franklin.
I think the one thing we saw with ASU and
Boise there's a gritty dis in, a toughness that just
even Ohio State. Ohio State's showing it now, but they
go for a long period of time without it because
they don't need it. Yeah, Boise State for twenty five
years is built on that, and I think Kenny Dillinghan
has brought that to Arizona State, and that's why they

(29:16):
can go toe to toe with a team where they
don't have one guy that would start for the other team.
I mean, that's that's truly if you remove Genty, which
I mean gent would technically start for Penn State, but
they would rotate the other guys in.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah, Singleton. Singleton's a great running back.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
Yeah, so I actually learn more about Genty in that
game than I do with some of his two hundred
and fifty yard games against New Mexico. Running over Penn State.
It was an impressive, just gritty effort by the guy.
Running for every yard was contested, running his ass off.
He's a he's a big time player. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
He he doesn't fumble, but he did twice in this game,
and that was frea gi Yeah, he only averaged three
and a half yards of carry. I think part of
Gent's strength. I mean I don't put him in the
class of Zeke or Saquon, Adrian Peterson or McCaffrey. Is
an NFL first d on running back. I don't he'll
go first round because it's a weak draft.

Speaker 2 (30:03):
But he's five eight. I mean that's kind of a
it's not ideal.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
Yeah, I think his strength is that he is so
small and so powerful. He is hard, you know, like
we're running backs. You don't want a six to two
running back. I think he's hard. To get that pad
level low enough to get him a shot, and so
what you end up doing when you tackle him, it's
almost always arm tackles because he's five to eight, so

(30:28):
when he lowers, so when he runs and lowers his head,
it's like tackling a five to five and a half guy.
He always has the center of gravity and he always
has sort of leverage on you hips down and so
it's like Penn State guys held him to three and
a half yards to carry, but he broke so many
arm tackles and I so it's like I look at

(30:51):
him as a first round running back in a week draft.
I don't look at him as an NFL superstar. I
don't think he has the juice of Saquon I don't
think he has the strength or speed of Adrian Peterson.
I don't think he's his talent that is McCaffrey, who's
also small. I think part of the package with him
is you just can't get under him and his size
is and I think in the NFL he'll have success,

(31:13):
but I don't know as I watch him. My take
is he'll need the right fit in the NFL to
be a star. But he is a starter.

Speaker 2 (31:20):
Yeah, Well, to me, he's gonna get drafted really high.
I think he's gonna be a good player in the NFL.
I would struggle, you know, let's say somewhere between fifteen
and twenty five. I think a lot of people think
that's the range he's gonna get picked. Well, if I'm
drafting twentieth, and then my next pick is fiftieth. Why
wouldn't I If I could take a corner or no
offensive lineman at twentieth, I can get one of these

(31:40):
other good running backs at fiftieth. So it's kind of
supply demand. It's always why a lot of people why
did Jim Harbaugh take the tackle at five and then
take lad McConkey in the second round. Because there's a
ton of wide receivers in every draft, So I'm gonna
get a guy that starts in the second round. We
see it every year with wide receivers. Like, you know,
would you take a wide receiver in the top ten? Well,

(32:02):
if I'm drafting after you, I hope you do, so
I can take another position. I can take a wide
receiver later. So I mean every game I watch Henderson
for Ohio State, he's an NFL player. All these teams
have NFL players and running back. So why would I
take a running back in the first round? If I
think I get ninety five percent or ninety percent of
that guy? Maybe in a third round. Yeah, if I
get Skataboo, Skataboo's gonna run like a four to seven

(32:24):
to five. What if I can get the guy in
the third run. You don't think Jim Harbaugh's gonna like skataboo.
Does that guy have charger written all over?

Speaker 1 (32:29):
Yeah? Well, I mean it's I think I told you
this recently. Wood he marks for USC is their best
back since Reggie Bush. He maybe a fifth round back.
Now maybe Gent's better than him, He's not that much
better than him. Like it is a loaded I mean this.
This Singleton kid at Penn State was the National Gatorade

(32:50):
Player of the Year, was the Big Ten Freshman of
the year. He Singleton is again. I mean, I don't
know as measurables, but he's like six feet two twenty seven.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
It looks small to me with a burst.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
It's like if anybody dropped in the first round. I
could see Gent dropping. Not because he's not good, but
because of the depth of the position.

Speaker 2 (33:11):
You know. The one thing, Yeah, I'm with you. I
just think it's if he measures in at five eight.
You know, remember Darren Sproles, who was as dominant of
a college player in the last twenty five years as
there was now. Times have changed a lot with size,
but he was the same thing five to seven, five eight.
He went in the fourth round. Now that modern day
player would go much higher. It is difficult to pull

(33:33):
the trigger on a guy in the teams or the
low twenties that is five to eight, no matter how
dominant he is, you know, and again, I think the
teams are gonna hesitate. They're gonna really like that. I
haven't texted a scout that doesn't love the player. But
that hight thing is just something with gms and coaches.
That is just That's where Drew Aller right now today.
You know, I know Drew Aller is committed to go

(33:54):
back to school, right, which is worth millions of dollars.
I'm sure I would say a month ago he was
not viewed as a lock first round pick. I don't
see how he would not go in the first round today.
I don't know what pick he would be a first rounder, right,
no question, no question. So now we start going, well,
we know quarterback inflation, they go higher. People are gonna
nitpick these other two quarterbacks. I mean, he's bigger, he's stronger,

(34:18):
and now he's playing really well under the brightest lights.
He wins another game. He's playing with all these other guys,
Abduell Carter. If he's healthy, he's going in the top
five or six picks. How much has Warren helped his
draft stock the second half of this year. I mean,
that guy's gonna be it's not a great draft. You're
telling me he can't go in the top ten or
twelve pick.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
Yeah, I mean if you count Aler, Singleton, Carter, and Warren,
those are four star players. So the idea, can they
win a national championship? I don't know. I feel like
they're a little bit of a poor man's Ohio State.
But again, I mean, how many games in a row
can Ohio State play perfect football? There is something to

(34:55):
be said. I mean, Ohio State now looks like the
world's best team. It is hard play at this level
for that long. I want to do three NFL topics.
Number one, Saquon Barkley. They're not going to play him

(35:16):
in the final game. So I've said this before, John,
I'm not an awards guy. I just don't care. I mean,
I just do not care. I don't know how many
Pro Bowls and All Pros Tom Brady had. I know
his Super Bowls, So I don't care. I don't think
most athletes care. If my athletes care too much about

(35:37):
Pro Bowls unless they have bonuses I'm worried about him.
I would not play Saquon. I didn't like them feeding
him the ball thirty one times. The only position left
in football, college or pro that you can hit anybody, anywhere,
anytime is a running back coming through the line. If
you hit and nobody's gonna throw a targeting foul. If
a running back squeezes through and you go helmet to

(35:58):
helmet from the side. So to me, it's the last
position in football that's a little bit of a piniata,
and you have to consider that when they play. I
remember years ago Leonard Fournett and McCaffrey bowed out of
bowl games, and I said, quarterback bothered me, star receiver.
I'd wonder if he's soft running back in the Liberty.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
Bowl bow out.

Speaker 1 (36:21):
I got your back, So I don't have a problem
at all with Saquon and the Eagles decision.

Speaker 2 (36:27):
To you, no, Well, if I'm the Eagles, my quarterback's
already got concussion, and you know, I don't even know
if it's he's officially cleared a week and a half out.
The two guys that I can't afford to get injured
are my left tackle and my right tackle. Lane Johnson
surely is not going to play in this game. And
the left tackle, the Australian guy, my Lota, I doubt
he's gonna play either. So right off the bat, my

(36:47):
star quarterback and the running element with him and Saquan
is a huge, you know, addition to our success, and
my two star offensive linemen are out and I'm going
to play my running back in week in a game
that up until how long have we been playing? This
last game for an extra three years, didn't even exist.
So we already won. We stole them from the Giants

(37:07):
for not much money, and no one will ever forget
when we probably got everyone and the Giants fired and
he ran for two thousand yards. You know, football is
not really a record sport. What's the most record for yards?
No one could tell me the exact yards. No one cares.
But if you run for two thousand yards like that's
a historic moment. They already got the record, even if
it doesn't actually count. It happened stolen from the Giants,

(37:30):
He ran from two It was one of the great
wins of all time. Howie the Eagles Sirianni Saquon, this
was a home run. Can you imagine if you were
going for this record, which is not apples to apples
because they did not play the same amount of games,
we can argue should we care not? It is kind
of a big deal. If you didn't. It was a
gent Barry Sanders thing. It was like, well, he played

(37:50):
way more games than Barry Sanders. But if Saquon Barkley
broke his ankle in a game, that literally means nothing.
Even if other guys were pulled can how would the
only thing that matters, The only thing that mattered from
the start of the season for the Eagles was January.
We all knew that they were going to get there,
and then it actually they got way hotter than we thought,

(38:12):
and it's like, God, they're incredible. But if he got
injured in this moment, or let's say Lane Johnson got
injured in the game trying to get him the record is,
there's too much on the line. This team has been
building this thing for three or four years to get
this good that they won Colin like they the Giants lost.
They won.

Speaker 1 (38:30):
Baseball is the record sport. Basketball is the aesthetic sport.
There's a beauty in an art to it. Football is
about winning, always has been always will be. It's about
winning and you protect your best players as they keep
lengthening the season. Now they're seventeen games within two years.
My guess is, we have eighteen games. The one position

(38:50):
I'm going to try and protect and you know, is
running back. And it's interesting. A couple of years ago
people were saying running backs have no future. You know,
the winner in an eighteen game schedule, dual John is
running backs. I think every team will carry another running back.
You won't carry another you won't carry another Mike linebacker.
I think every team now will say probably need another

(39:10):
running back on the roster, and I do think with
eighteen games, roster expansion will happen. And I'm gonna want
an extra I mean, let's be honest, I'm gonna want
an extra running back, probably an extra offensive lineman, and
maybe an extra linebacker because of the hits they you know,
they incur. But running backs are doing quite fine. The
league is obviously pivoted to more of a running league

(39:32):
with many of the best teams, so I know everybody
was freaking out about that, But running backs are back.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
Did you see a story floating around there on the internet.
I don't know how much validity there is to this,
But I know, listen, it's it's pro sports. A lot
of money in the line that's heard. Crazier is that
the Jets would entertain going all in and making Howie
Roseman basically the Tzar of football. And I don't know
if this is even possible, offering him equity and obviously

(40:00):
making him paid, because even if gms make a lot,
they make six seven million dollars. Well, we have some
of these coaches make a double triple that. Yeah, you
know so and how he's got a lot of juice.
But listen, you pay me twenty million dollars a year.
You know, gms don't usually get leverage like coaches that
often to really put the hammer down and get paid.
So listen, this could be a little bit of a

(40:20):
leverage play by Howie who's you know him? And tann
Obomber closer. Just if I was the Jets, I'd take
a hail Mary on a guy like Howie to you know,
he's from Brooklyn, that's where he grew up. I was like, yeah,
I think if you're Woody Johnson that you could do
way worse than that.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
Yeah, I mean, I over the course of my life.
I'm sixty years old now. Over the course of my life,
one thing has been universally true. There's very little great,
and when you get great, you never let it go.
You build around great. And Howie Roseman feels like he's
in a class by himself, and that includes other gms.

(40:55):
I like he's the most aggressively at his job, for sure,
he's and I just think there aren't many people like that. So,
you know, I mean, great endures, great separates, and I
don't care if it's if you're you know, a firm
in New York on Wall Street, if you have a
great stockbroker, you can get me three good ones. They
don't equal one great one. So to me, Howie Roseman,

(41:18):
if he broke the bank, would deserve it. Okay, let's
go two more topics. Brock Pretty. So you're obviously an
NFL scout, and whenever you know, I tend to let
you lead on that stuff because it's what you do
and know much more about it. I've never been a
huge Pretty fan. I have kind of a base belief

(41:39):
that if the great quarterbacks are not if quarterbacks Joe
Burrow's great battle line, shitty defense coach can't figure the
clock out. He wins, and he produces. You're not always
going to win if you don't have good people around you,
but you'll be wildly productive. Burrow's a great example of that.
Even Herbert finally has a good coach, but he was

(42:00):
breaking rookie records as a rookie with a bad coach
in the thirty second ranked offensive line. Purty to me,
has always been an if quarterback, if the protection's good,
if he's got a lead, he's now. I think we
have to acknowledge he is not a good fourth quarter quarterback.
He's not a good quarterback trailing now. That's not six
games or eight. It's a pretty big sample now. And

(42:22):
I do think the separator in this league beyond some
traits size movement, hand size, arm, but beyond some of
that is how do you play from behind? Some guys
have hit, some don't. I could not pay pretty early.
I could not pay him a number at five. But
he's going to have leverage because Trey Lance didn't work.

(42:43):
If the Vikings franchise, darnold, what do you do Aaron
Rodgers Kirk Cousins as somebody who has done this for
a living, as somebody who was a fan of Purty
and has peeled back a little bit. If you ran
the Niners, what you do do you draft Riley Leonard
in the third round and just I mean, what do

(43:04):
you do?

Speaker 2 (43:05):
Yeah? To me, I just played out another year, And
I think as concerning as the two interceptions were, and
they were bad interceptions in a game that an interception
lost the game, one interception was gonna lose the game.
Jared Goff couldn't afford to do it, Perty couldn't afford
to do it, and he threw too And even Kyle
admitted after the game we lost the game with the
two turnovers. That was the type game we were in.

(43:26):
His elbow nerve issue, Like, I don't think that he
has a nerve issue with his hand, just randomly with
the UCL thing a couple of years ago. Now luckily
he didn't tear his UCL, but he's already had Tommy
John and then he has I would say a relatively
I don't want to say innocuous, might be a little light,
but he was not throttled. They kind of he tackled

(43:46):
him as he was rolling. It wasn't just he didn't
just get molly wop sitting there in the pocket and
he couldn't grip it, and he said his arm was
on fire. Right, So you're telling me your arm's on fire,
you can't grip it when you've already had an elbow issue.
That would gravely concerned me, Collin. So the play had
already really disturbed me. The second half performance this year

(44:07):
had not been good, specifically these last three games. They
were six and seven. In that Rams game, they win it. Boom,
they're playing Miami, they're playing this game, they have a
chance to make the playoffs. And he throws five interceptions
or four interceptions, two picks that lose the Miami game
and the Rams game, and then the two interceptions in
this last game. So the game's kind of unraveled on

(44:27):
his watch. The other thing is over the middle of
the field sometimes when the pockets a little muddied, I
don't think he can see that well. And sometimes I
think balls balloon on him and he gets lucky. Sometimes.
Kittle's tall and can make some miraculous catches, but some
of his picks happen when Deebo, little shorter guy not
able to you know, overcorrect in the air and balls
fly and his picks feel like he did throw the

(44:50):
one to Juwan out outside a lot of them in
the middle of the field. It goes back to last year,
and I do think that's an eye issue. Can't see.
If you can't see, you let it go and you're like,
oh shit, But he doesn't know that. When there are
guys in front of him in this notion, everyone's like, well,
he's having a great game. Well the ram or excuse me,
the Lions defense was a practice squad unit beside two

(45:12):
or three players, that's right, and he was a viscerating him,
which is he's a good player, I hope, so everyone's
been a viscerating them. But then the picks happened in
the fourth quarter. It's like that can't that just can't.
I've told you before, he's got to hang his hat
on decision making because the skill set is not going
to be outrageously special.

Speaker 1 (45:30):
Here, I'm gonna throw this at you. And this is
one of my favorite topics in all sports is cultural changes.
So you and I both admit that guys like Drew
Bledsoe or a more recent advanced example of Carson Palmer,
they didn't have seven on seven camps. They didn't have
ten thousand throws by the time they were twelve years old.

(45:52):
These kids are better now and faster at quarterback. Is
there's a cultural shift happening with quarterbacks. If you go
back to the twenty eighteen draft class, now that's the
one I think with Darnold, Baker, Lamar, Josh, Josh, Okay
So and Rool four guys who are STAPs so. And

(46:15):
that's not the only draft class that that's happened in.
We also had the Herbert Tua Burrow draft class. I
think Jalen Hurts was second round in that draft class,
and may be wrong, but I think he was. We
now have you and I growing up. They always talked
about that one great draft class, Oh Marino in lway

(46:36):
since twenty eighteen, now we have multiple quarterback draft classes.
We're four guys hit four okay, like it's now a
regular occurrence. This is a week draft class. Last year's
we may have the best draft class ever last year.
Jaden's unbelievable, Bonix is good, Pennix looks good in brief duty,

(47:01):
Caleb's a sensational talent, Drake may will be good when
he gets players, and JJ McCarthy look unbelievable. In the preseason,
we may have a five for five. So you go
back to the Donald Baker, Lamar Josh class, you go
to the Herbert Tua Jalen Hurtsborough class. You go to
this last class. This is a week class. But now
we have three draft classes. You get four high end

(47:23):
starters or more. And my take is next year, if
you really do your homework, I think Riley Leonard is
going to be the late mid round guy that pops
this year. Maybe I'm wrong, but somebody I think will
pop third fourth round. I think it's Notre Dame's quarterback.
Next year is supposed to be a much better quarterback,
especially if Drew Aller comes out next year. Is what

(47:43):
about this? You just roll the dice and say, we're
not signing Donald do a huge deal, Aaron doesn't interest us,
Cousins isn't playing well, we're not signing Perny, and you
just roll the dice and say we're gonna have We
think it's going to be another four quarterback draft class.
I know that you don't like to do that, but Pep,

(48:04):
you know as scouts you're two years ahead of where
I'm at. I think culturally We're just getting these four
quarterback classes on a regular basis, why not roll the dice?

Speaker 2 (48:19):
Yeah. I mean my thing specifically with Perty is the
NFL I grew up on. It was like, Okay, we're
not paying you right now, play it out, and that
kind of has dropped by the wayside of these last
four or five years. The teams kind of get pushed
around by the agents. Why why can't you go, we
got one more year of a contract. We're gonna play
it out. You're making millions off the field. You benefit

(48:40):
from being the starting quarterback of the forty nine ers
if you're a great player and you're a fifty million
dollar player. I just thowt their schedule came out there
playing a last play schedule that forty nine ers should dominate.
The other thing was what make Kyle shan Hansel special
One with Jimmy Garoppolo, one with Brock Perty. Should he
be able to find some other guy to win with? Right?
I mean it's like, if you're not gonna get a
Patrick Mahomes or Josh Allen, you should just be able
to with any kind of quarterback and a pretty decent clip.

(49:03):
Your team's pretty good. So I'm with you, I would
personally just roll it out another year. But it feels
like these teams. When you talk to some of these
contract negotiators now, they say it has turned into a
little bit more, you know, the players, because the money's
so big now that they're so hesitant to like, fuck you,
I'm not gonna show up, which we've always seen some holdouts.
They are a lot more prevalent now because even a

(49:26):
random player is getting sixty seventy million dollars guaranteed. And
you know, these quarterbacks that minimum are getting one hundred
and fifty million dollars guaranteed. But I would play hardball,
especially if he's injured. It's the conversation's made already. It's like, yeah,
we can't sign an injured player, or there's question marks
about the injury. So I've said forever the forty nine ers,
I have a hard bargain. I'd be stunned if this

(49:48):
thing is easy. And I think everything's on the table
right now. I think, Kyle, you know, I think they
were so desperate for the Trey Lance thing and it
blew up in their face, and I think that's kind
of a one off. That twenty twenty draft with COVID.
That's we're not gonna see anything like that again. And
I think he feels comfortable with this. But I think
he's not an idiot like he kind of You saw

(50:08):
his face when perty through one of those picks and
he puts the thing over because he know Monday night football.
He doesn't want to go viral of him just going nuts.
Who knows what he was saying, but he did that
specifically to cover his mouth because he was like, we can't,
how can you throw that ball? He was hanging his
hat on it up here like he was gonna be
like a Drew Brees with a little more mobility Drew Brees.

(50:31):
This separating factor was decision making right. Some of these
other guys can get away with some dumb throws because
they also make ten incredible throws. Purty has to not
turn the ball over and four turnovers in the last
three games with their season on the line. In winnable games,
it'd be one thing if you're down twenty or up
twenty like these are Ty game, you're playing the best

(50:53):
and the one thing I do respect and why I
think the NFL is just crushing Lions had nothing to
play for, whether they lost that game. Minnesota game meant
the same thing. The forty nine Ers are dead and
going season's over, and you had all these star players
playing that game like it's means everything to them, and
it was just like, I just I just enjoy the
level of spirit and energy that the star players in

(51:15):
this league give us on a weekly basis. I mean,
the Lions have one of the biggest games in the
franchise's history coming up in six games, they have to
fly five hours home in the middle of the night.
They're at a huge disadvantage, and they're guys laid it
on the line like that was a playoff game. I mean,
that's if anyone wonders why the NFL is king you
turn on Monday night football, everyone knows game means nothing,

(51:38):
definitely for the forty nine ers, and it's just like
these team teams are throwing the kitchen stick at each other.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
Finally, Chris Ballard probably in some trouble as the GM
of the Colts. So you know, it's interesting because I
think think he hired the right coach in Shane Steikin.
I don't think they had a choice on quarterback. I mean, listen,
when Jim Ersay impulsively told them to get rid of

(52:12):
Carson Wentz after he had twenty seven touchdowns and seven picks,
because he had a bad game against the Jags down
in Florida, which the Colts have played poorly there for years.
It put Chris Ballard in the entire organization behind the
eight ball. I think the Cultu are one of those
teams that we think are well run because Ballard does
a really good job, but they're not because basically Ersay

(52:33):
is one of the more impulsive owners. He's likable, but
his personal life is well documented, and when I look
at that franchise, I think that Carson Wentz they had
to go in and get Philip Rivers, and they've been
basically bailing water. They've had the worst quarterback Luck Andrew
Luck retires right before a season.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
You're ft.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
Carson Wentz, owner tells you get rid of them. But
he's a big, strong, mobile guy who had a good season.
Get rid of him. Philip Rivers was the least athletic
quarterback in the league, but again they won with him
and Anthony Richardson. He was available. They didn't want to
give away the farm for a quarterback. We had questions
coming in and he can't complete a high enough level

(53:15):
of passes. And it's one thing to be talented and
get off to a slow star. Caleb Williams, we know
he's talented. We know he struggled Anthony Richardson. He was
a total question mark, not a great college quarterback, and
now he's struggling here. I think you have to cut
ties with him. I don't think it's a Chris Ballard issue.

(53:36):
I think if this team had c. J. Stroud, even
it made the eighth best quarterback in the league. I
think they're a playoff team, but I think it wears
on a team when you have to constantly overcome a quarterback.
And I think in that Giants game, you saw you
constantly literally as a coaching staff. I mean you talked
about this with Sark and quinn Ewers. I watched the

(53:57):
Colts and they coach around and Tony Richardson, and I
think that when you do that, you can win games,
but you will eventually have stinkers. You're just constantly coaching
around the most important position. I have a relationship with Bounder.
I like him, I like the roster. Do you think
he survives.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
I mean, I think everything's on the table after this
week when McAfee puts out the tweet and then their
coach admits to yeah, guys are showing up late. But hey,
guys show up late, It's like, no, they actually don't.
You think guys are showing up late Andy Reid's meetings
or Kyle Shanahan or Sean mcvay's meetings, And if they do,
there aren't heavy repercussions. So they clearly have kind of

(54:35):
a loosey goosey ship. And to me less that's on
the coach, Yeah, when it comes to meetings and stuff,
And you just wonder this transition from being a coordinator,
which he was a hot shot coordinator and being the
lead guy. Everything's on the table when the quarterback taps
out of the game and that becomes the biggest controversy
in the NFL. You have to answer for that three
times a week instead of the coordinator just once, Like,

(54:57):
that's your problem. How do you handle it? Do you
bench them? Your decision when a guy gets in trouble,
when a guy says something stupid on a podcast, it's
on the defensive side of the ball. And I do
just wonder if Shane stiche's a little bit over his
head as a head coach because when a story comes
out that he had that, hey, you guys are showing
up late, You're like, you better shoot that down. And
then we've had guys show up late. But hey, people

(55:19):
show up late all over the place. No, I don't
think so like, because I think that snowballs into other things.
Then are you not practicing well or guys screwing around?
And I think this all gets back to the Anthony
Richardson tap out thing. People questioning like he gets injured
a lot, but are they serious injuries? There's all and
no one really knows what's going on, and they feel
like they've taken on back to what you say, Jim

(55:41):
Orsay's personality well, unreliable and who knows what the hell's
gonna happen.

Speaker 1 (55:46):
Listen, everybody loves Norv Turner. Jimmy Johnson swears by him,
Troy Aikman swears by him. Could never do it as
a head coach, and he was a brilliant, brilliant coordinator.
There are guys, you know, you see it in politics.
Some guys are vice presidents, some guys are presidents. You

(56:06):
see it all the time. You guy will be a
great sales manager at a company, but you wouldn't want
to run in the company. You know, he's a little loose,
a little late night, but he's a great sales guy.
And it's quite possible that Shane Steichen is one of
these sort of modern coaches that is softer on players.
He's pro players. I mean, Brandon Staley was a very
good defensive coordinator. I mean he the Rams defense was excellent.

(56:28):
He was a disaster, and it just got worse and
worse and worse, and the details and it got looser
and looser. And I think, you know, it's quite possible
that Stichen, Like I've said this about Ben Johnson, I
think Ben Johnson is a great coordinator. Now it is
easier when you have like eight Pro Bowl players on

(56:49):
your offense. And I don't when I see him talk
and when I listen to him, I don't see I've
said this about Mike McDaniel, I don't see a culture
changer and a leader of men. What I see as
a really smart guy. And by the way, Mike McDaniels
is a very modern, progressive pro player coach. What's our
knock on Miami they're soft. Shane Steichen, modern progressive guy.

(57:13):
What's our knock on him? Pro player? He's soft. So
I think that there is this hard ass component to
football coaches, this Harbaugh Vrabel, this sort of intense Tomlin
Belichick that still stands true, like, yeah, he said this
the other day. Very rarely do these culture changer coaches flail.

(57:36):
They don't all have great seasons, but very rarely do
you hire a culture changer and it's a disaster. You know,
these coordinators, John, these brilliant offensive coordinators, about one out
of two flame out fast. They just don't work. So
I think there's a possibility that Stikeen maybe is a
little bit Mike McDaniel, who the media loves because he
was kind of doroky and a little nerdy and very smart,

(57:59):
looked like a sport like they kind of related to him.
But in the end, is Miami to me is maybe
the least trustable team in the league if it's over
forty over under forty degrees.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
Well, and think last year they had Vic Fangio, who's
one of the best defensive coordinators of my life, and
it didn't work. The players were bitch and moan and
he wants out. It's like Mike, you get this guy
working for you, you never let him leave. You fire the
players before you fire this guy everywhere, we'll take him immediately,
you know. And so to me, I heard your Pete

(58:31):
Carroll rant. I think Pete Carroll is no shot because
of his age, fair or not. I just don't think
anyone's going to hire him. I mean, I think I
was a big part of Belichick too. You look at
these guys seventy two, seventy three years old, and you
just go, well, in five years, it'll be seventy. I
think it's really working against him, even though Pete is
the youngest seventy three year old the history of human beings.
But if Pete Carroll took over the Bears next year,

(58:52):
I think they are guaranteed to make the playoffs in
one of the next three years. Yeah. If Ben Johnson
takes over the I think there's a fifty to fifty
chance it's an all time flame out, yep, because you
just don't overcome it. And like you said, you watch
his personality, watch the way he carries himself. The toughness
of the team is built through Dan Campbell and the
drafting and he's done a good job with schemes in

(59:15):
the place. He's a brilliant play caller. We have seen
Pat Schrmer, remember him on the Minnesota Vikings the year
with a case Keenum. It's like, this guy's a brilliant
play caller, and then he becomes a head coach for
the second time. It's the same thing, a disaster. Not
everyone has meant for that role, and most guys are not.
Just like in life, like the older you get kind
of I try to look at myself like what do
I want to do, where do I want to go?

(59:35):
What are my strengths and weaknesses? And the best part
about the NFL if you're a number two your whole life,
it pays you five million dollars a year to be
the offensive coordinator and listen to someone's gonna pay him
ten to fifteen million dollars trip. I get it, and
he's it sure feels like it. But two years ago,
rumors that I had heard was he was scared to
he thought he was overwhelmed, so he didn't even really
entertain it. Last year was pretty embarrassing. I mean, the

(59:58):
Washington football team clearly not your old Dan Snider operation.
Pretty high level group was flying in a private jet
to come talk to him, and he called them on
the flight to say, hey, I'm out. Pretty low level
thing like that feels like something that no one Pete Carroll,
Mike vveriebel are doing that, even if they're going to
go in a different direction the way he handled it.

(01:00:19):
And I just think you hire these coordinators everyone thinks
you're getting the next Kyle or McVeigh. Mcveigh's a good example,
like he's really built more like Tomlin and Kyle really
is built like more like the whiz kid. But Kyle
is kind of like this old school hard ass, like
keeps everyone on their toes. I mean, he's miked and
he's got video cameras in every room. Like everyone's kind
of on edge in that building because he look at him.

(01:00:40):
He's high stressed. He's just he's an intense he's kind
of a dick, which is a compliment sometimes for football coaches.
And he's built up the equity now people know he
knows what he's doing, so he can ride guys in
the building. I think it's hard for a young coordinator
who's never had any success outside of being a coordinator.
If things don't go right early. And the other thing
is the you know, the elephant in the room with

(01:01:01):
the Bears is like this Caleb Williams situation is like
there's so much pressure on making him good. Let's just
say there's a chance. I mean, his history would say
that five out of the five guys in the draft
are not gonna become like ten year starters, right, some
of them are gonna miss.

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
Well.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
You wouldn't bet against Jayden at this point, and with
Sean Payton, as long as he's the head coach, you're
not gonna bet against bone Nicks. Maybe I'm one of
the only high guys on Michael Penix. Like the way
Michael Pennix plays translates to the NFL. Caleb the holding
onto the ball. Some coaches will tell you, your boy,
Sean Payton will tell you too, that's something that you
can't always coach out. Yeah, and it is, you know,
for all the things that we want. The offensive line

(01:01:38):
is not Cayleb's fault, but the holding onto the ball
for way too, that was something Russell always battled. But
Russell was I don't know. Their defense was a lot better.
He had Pete Carroll. Their infrastructure was better, so they
could kind of coach around it, but they always butted
heads over that. It's like Russell let it go, but
he became a star playing that way. Not many guys
can play like that and consistently. Deshaun Watson for a

(01:02:01):
brief moment played like that. Yeah, and then it unraveled
because most coaches go play within the offense and they
just don't want it. And Caleb, I think, struggles with
that a little bit. It's why I pushed back sometimes
this year on the Caleb, like, well, some of these throws, well, yeah,
he's down thirty to seven, so he just made a
couple of throws. Who cares? That's I wonder if that

(01:02:21):
job as much as the administration, that Kevin larn thing.
If the Caleb, Yeah, he's like this ball of clay,
but is he really a ball of player? Some of
those the way that he plays going to be always
the way he plays, and that holding onto the ball,
you know, accuracy I think is something we've seen, like
you can't improve a little bit. Especially in this modern
day NFL guys are a little more open. There's no

(01:02:41):
John Lynch's and at Water's killing people, So you can
you can be a little more inaccurate still complete balls.
I do think the like the feel in the pocket
of holding that ball. Some guys just do it for
whatever and some guys just have a knack to get
rid of it. I mean, that's one reason Kyle loves Purty.
You know, now it's going to the other team sometimes,
but he will get rid of the football. You watch
Caleb throw the ball, and Russell used to take a

(01:03:04):
lot of sacks. Remember the offensive line used to get crushed.
And you'd hear people in the NFL so like, yeah,
the offensive line, half those sacks are on him. Naturally
would always tell you It's like it wasn't always on
the offensive line, but they always got shit on.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
For yeah, Peyton. That's one of the reasons, the primary reasons.
It was a personality clash in Russell Wilson's inability to
let go of the ball on Denver. Okay, obviously, Notre
Dame George has been pushed back a day because of
that unspeakable tragedy in New Orleans between a madman, because
of a madman driving a car full speed. I just
saw the video. I watched it once and that was

(01:03:37):
enough of somebody driving full speed into a crowd of
fifteen dead at this time. Again, just incredibly unspeakable college
football fans down in you know what has always been
sort of an outdoor city in the winter, you go outdoors,
you're in the streets, Bourbon Street. So just a grotesque tragedy.

(01:03:58):
And so that game has been moved. I like Notre Dame,
but I'm not sure how strong I feel about that.
I don't after watching Ohio State dismantled Oregon in Tennessee,
I think the only strong opinion I have is Ohio
State is the best balance of talent and coaching right now.
And I also think i'm I'm I am happy for
Ohio State because I think everybody thought Ryan Day was

(01:04:20):
a good coach. But you know, good coaches have bad
saturdays and Sundays.

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
I mean they do.

Speaker 1 (01:04:27):
It's okay, like people have. I've had bad shows. You
know you as a scout, you probably missed them. A player.
Politicians have bad speeches. Ryan Day had a bad day
coaching against Michigan, and he has had two great days
coaching against Tennessee and an Oregon, and I'm happy for him.
I think it's pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (01:04:46):
Yeah, I mean, if he wins the national Championship, people
will forget about the four lossesits Michigan pretty quickly. Yeah. Well,
and let's hope this game. I mean, obviously, like you said,
you wake up to that news, you have to wonder
if the administrations from Notre Dame and Georgia are a
little uneasy, you know, you use some of the bombs
and stuff about even how can anyone guarantee the safety
of everybody? I was honestly like, would they move this game?

(01:05:08):
It becomes so difficult logistically. Just hope it gets played
and everyone could stay safe, because I know if I
was going to the game, I'd be a little I'd
be hesitant at this point. I mean, I've I've only
been to Bourbon Street one time when I was in college.
It is not very wide. You know. This isn't the
Vegas Strip where there's just a lot of room. This
is a pretty tight quarter where you would be a

(01:05:28):
sitting duck. And I'm with you. I watched that video.
It's one of those you just turn off your phone.
You just you just can't even fathom where you witnessed.

Speaker 1 (01:05:36):
Yeah, now there's gonna be obviously, your news organizations are
gonna have more, So I'm not gonna speculate. I saw
a picture of the guy. He was an army that
born in Texas. That's what we know.

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
But think about you got you got New Year's Eve
with this game the next night. The amount of alumni
from places like Notre Dame in Georgia, the amount of
people that would be there, naturally, it's got to be
one the most popular nights on Bourbon Street. It's just
just beyond awful. It is.

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
John Middlecoff, former NFL Scout, a special Wednesday podcast over
an hour. What a pleasure, what a treat. Congrats to Texas,
Ohio State, and Penn State. And let's get ready for
Notre Dame in Georgia tomorrow. Good talking to you about.

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
See you Colin

Speaker 1 (01:06:27):
The volume