January 15, 2025 • 43 mins
Colin talks to NBA Commissioner Adam Silver about their reported decline in TV ratings and if the 3-point line needs to be pushed further back
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
All right, here we go. It's our two. Been waiting
for this for a long time, live in Los Angeles.
It is The Herd. Wherever you may be and however
you may be listening, Thanks for making us part of
your day. You know, I used to have a relationship
at the other Place with David Stern, the late Great
Commissioner David Stern, who was the boss of Adam Silver.
And it was always funny because he would join me
(00:46):
during his lunch and he was always eating during the interview,
which I made sure he knew that I knew. But
the interviews were feisty and fun. And so I've been
looking forward to this because the NBA is still in
probably culturally relevant, and they just signed contracts with networks
for seventy seven billion dollars, and they do get beat
(01:07):
up a lot because let's be honest. Their star players
are often bigger than NFL players, So there's a lot
to unravel and unpack here when we bring on Adam Silver,
eleven years as the NBA commissioner, So let's start with
the good stuff. International expansion, China and Africa. You have
a new CBA for seven years. You just signed a
massive TV deal. I like the NBA Cup. I'm a
(01:30):
distracted consumer. If the court's purple, I know it matters.
I like it. I think it works. So there's a
lot of good here, more good than bad. But I'm
gonna I'm gonna set this question up because this is
something I struggle with. I'm a consumer and I'm distracted.
I'm on my phone as much as TV. So I
have been watching Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese. They feel
like burden magic because I am viscerally connected to them
(01:53):
via college. This is why studios do sequels. I know
the actors. Zach I really like watching him plays, having
a very nice rookie season. But I know him because
Matt Painter and Purdue is a big time program. It
would be reductionist to say he's succeeding because he's big
(02:13):
he's succeeding because of what Purdue did, and not only
that commissioner, but I got to watch the growth. So
I am emotionally committed to Zach Edy. I think your
heart was in the right place with a G League,
but it hides players from me that I want to
grow with. Is there an argument to be made that
(02:34):
college basketball there's I feel like it's not that it's marginalized,
but it's not as big as it could be. It
could be such a micro wave for your stars, and
the league doesn't see it that way. Is that a
fair criticism.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
I don't think it's a fair criticism because we do
see it that way and we're doing everything we can
to build college basketball. I mean, let me take a
few steps back. Like, first of all, in terms of
the G League, most of the G League players are
either international players who didn't play in college or former
college players. In fact, we had a program called Team
(03:11):
McKnight Condaly s Rice recommended we create. There was an
NCAA commission and you'll recall pre collectives and nil money.
President Obama criticized us, and then the NCAA had a
commission and said there should be a track a pro
track into the NBA because it was unfair that the
(03:31):
only opportunity for these young players was to play without
being paid in college. So we had already had the
G League, but then we created this program called Team
McKnight where for a select few high school players, if
they wanted the opportunity to get to get paid and
then come into the NBA, they could play in that program.
But even then we recognized that compared to the facilities
(03:56):
the conditions at the top D one programs, even though
we were paying them and they couldn't have been paid
at that point, it was they were still better off
playing at Kentucky or Louisville or Duke or USC or
wherever else. And so once the NIL and collective money
came in, we actually shut down the Team ig Night.
(04:16):
We still have the G League, and the last thing
we want to do is take top prospects would otherwise
be going to school.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
Take Cooper Flag at Duke. We'd rather he.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Be there than be playing in the NBA right now
or be playing in the G League.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
We want those players to develop.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
So you know, I think there's a misnomer to the
extent that you or others feel that we're not supportive
of college basketball and personally a huge college basketball fan.
I'm Charlie Baker, the former governor of Massachusetts and now
head of the CUBA.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
He and I have been meeting a lot.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
To talk about collectively what we can do to better
develop young American players, which clearly has to begin before
they get to college.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
For the NBA.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
So and you know, we are the league of the
w MBA too, and so I pay a lot of
attention to Caitlyn Clark and the star players that are
emerging and the WNBA and who are coming from college
and when whether it's Angel or Caitlin or Juju now
and these players come into the w NBA as you know,
(05:18):
built fully, you know, multi dimensional stars that people are
familiar with like it was in the old days in
the NBA.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
We love that.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
The problem is, like so many things in life, I'm
not sure we can turn the clock back on that
type of development.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
I will say it's positive, you know.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Putting aside, I think there's some issues that need to
be addressed in terms of the NIL system and the collectives.
It seems like nobody's really happy with it right now.
In terms of the competitive landscape, I think it's positive
that those players are able to be paid, and if
they're able to be paid, particular, the players that aren't
are on the margin of whether they or not they
would be lottery picks or first round draft picks. They
(05:55):
now have a huge incentive to stay in school because
they can. They're not only can get the further development,
but they can get paid as well.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Here's something that I addressed with David Stern, and I'll
address it with you too. I think trades are good
for sports. If you look at the best teams in
the NBA right now, Oklahoma City, Cleveland, and Boston, they
have smart front offices that have drafted and developed well.
They can occasionally make a Donovan Mitchell move or Porzingis move,
or a Drew Holliday, but those teams have drafted and
developed well and they're being rewarded for it. You know,
(06:24):
Dallas drafted Luca. You know they can go get Kyrie,
but lucas the star. The NBA gets a little too
caught up if you take Lebron out. Let's just take
Lebron out. He is the historic outlier. Even Kevin Durant,
Warriors one before him, Warriors one after him, is that
I think the league sometimes is too concerned with trades.
(06:45):
If Jimmy Butler, who's a good player, maybe not a
superstar anymore, went to Oklahoma City, I would want to
watch them more, or Golden State, I would want to
that the league sometimes to protect the small markets. Let's
not worry too much about that. Let's just let players
move because the sense that it ruins the league or
creates a competitive balance outside of Lebron, it really doesn't.
(07:09):
Most of the great teams in this league historically have
always been draft and develop, build a core, and then
add sprinkle in some good players via trades.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
I don't think it's an accident that we've had six
different teams over the last six years that have won championships,
and at the end of the day, we sell competition.
And I hear you it sounds like you're making an
argument for dynasties to a certain extent, that we should
do more to allow a great player to go to
an already great team or an already very good team.
(07:42):
The problem is that it's zero sum. The players are
going to go somewhere. That's the great news. All the
top tier players are going to play in the NBA
and that there is a correlation. It's far from perfect,
but there's a correlation between what players make and their
performance on the floor. And so what we've done, and
I understand your point of view over time is while
(08:03):
we have a soft cap system, it's become harder and
it has been more difficult once you have a fully
loaded team. Then add a great player on top of that.
And to your point, if Kevin Durant couldn't have gone
to Golden State from Oklahoma City when he did, the
team he had gone to would have almost by definition,
(08:24):
if it weren't already a great team, would have become
a great team. And for us, we think that's better
league wide in terms of creating more competition. I mean,
we're coming off a season last year and it's continued
this year. Or I think we have more competitive teams
than any time in league history. And to your point,
the fact that tomorrow night Cleveland and Oklahoma City are
(08:44):
playing yet again, you know, fantastic build up for that game,
incredible competition. We just got to remember at the end
of the day, that's what we're selling. I mean, I
think that's part of the reason for the enormous success
of the NFL. This any given Sunday notion, nobody thinks twice.
If you know the Packers are in the super Bowl,
there's no bemoaning that it's a small market whatsoever. And
(09:07):
I think our league, it's true that if you look
back on you know, the first you know, sixty years
of our league. It seemed David Stern joked, you know
when when he came into the league, I thought the
job was you went back and forth from Boston to.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
La every year, and one of the team's got the rings,
you know.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
And I think the fact that now we're selling competition
in every market, and that in terms of from a
television standpoint too, that you know, whether it's Oklahoma City,
whether it's San Antonio, whether it's Salt Lake City, that
those teams are in a position when well managed to
compete in the same way the large markets can. And
(09:43):
by the way, I mean it's not just money. I
mean players choose markets based on you know, climate taxes,
Some like big cities, some like small cities. But you know,
I think I'm balanced. This is a much better system
for a thirty team league.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Throw this at you. I said this the other day
about the esthetic of the NBA. It's a bit homogenoust,
a little cookie cutter. And I said, listen, I don't
mind three pointers. But if the NFL was just you
could run the ball and throw bombs. No layering, no
drag routes, no tight end screen, it was just run
it or bombs. Optically, it's not as fascinating. And I
(10:24):
love the three pointer, but like and you know this,
you're a pretty progressive thinking. I think athletes are better.
Wemby can pull up and cross you over on a
dribble and shoot. They couldn't do that ten years ago.
And the truth is, because your players are so gifted
and it's such a global pool, the three pointer is
too easy. And I have simply said I would put
(10:45):
the three pointer. I would go have it go into
the bench about six feet up, eliminate the corner. I'd
bring back the handcheck. I do like physicality. Your athletes
are so great it's become too easy to hit it,
and the optics on it are a repetitive. I think
there's numbers ratings that prove people are they they like
(11:08):
layers and power forwards and physicality and not just dunks
and threes. What do you do to solve that, because
I think you've engaged with people and acknowledged it can
be a bit repetitive. It is a bit of an issue.
What do we do to change it?
Speaker 3 (11:23):
That the hardest question is the last one you asked,
what do we do to change it? I agree to
the extent that you start to see very similar offenses. Yes,
around the league. You know, teams have brands, teams have identity.
You know, Joe Dumars is a colleague now at the
league office, the Bad Boys, et cetera. You know, I
think you know the Showtime Lakers. So I recognize that's
(11:47):
the extent that offenses start to look very similar. We
lose that. At the same time, the league is going
through a transformation. Just as you said, players like Victor
Webbin Yama, players like you know Yokich are doing things
big men never did historically. I mean, it wasn't that
long ago, Colin. You'll remember that conversations you had with
David Stern. We would bemoan the lack of skill among
(12:11):
some players that you know there there was a sense
there was too much physicality. Yes, that the play under
the back, you know that you would have you know,
the hack a shack era. You know, there were big
men that just couldn't shoot free throws. There are no
big men anymore who can't shoot many throws, just as
one comparable from generation to generation have never been higher.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
So I think we just got to be careful.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Like the one thing I want to do is I
don't want to sort of knee jerk move the three
point line. We're sort of going through a process now
seeing how these players are adapting to the new rules
and figuring out if whatever changes we should make. I mean,
be honest, I wish it were as simple as just
moving the three point line back, because then we would
just do it. I mean, part of the concern from
(12:55):
the basketball folks is that if you move the three
point line back, you'll end up sort of just clogging up,
you know, the sort of the area under the basket,
and that's not such attractive basketball either.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
I think this is doable.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
I think we by examining the game and sort of
seeing where it's going. I mean, it frustrates me a
little as well, because it's it's obviously you're representative of
how what a fair number of people are saying about
the game.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
And I watch it.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Night and night out, and we're seeing some of the
most incredible athleticism and skill in the history of this league.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
Again Victor wm Banyama.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
But I think you're also saying too that if we
moved the three point line back and what we ended
up with was Victor when Banyama standing under the basket
the whole time, just waiting you're done, that wouldn't be
interesting either. So you know, one, I assure you we
are on it. I think it's a very fixable issue.
I mean, it's you know, we've gone from I mean
(13:53):
I always tell the story like Bob Coosey, who I
don't know, he's around ninety five years old, still stays
in touch with me, and he'll call me after watching
a game and say, I'm so frustrated because the commentators
think that what these players are doing, let's say, from
twenty eight feet or thirty feet and seemingly just flicking
the ball up with their wrists and swishing these three pointers,
(14:14):
that somehow that's easy. They said, the skill level is incredible.
But he'll also say, you know, I think we all
want to see diversity in the offenses. But by the way,
one other thing I'll just throw in I don't think
the players are getting enough credit for playing the style
defense they're playing now as well.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
So it's an incredible game. I know you love the game.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
It's, you know, the number one participation sport in the
United States.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
You mentioned Kaitlyn Clark. It's incredible to.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
See what the women are now doing on the floor
and the amount of young girls who are playing this game.
So as stewards of the game, you know Joe Dumar's
leads our competition committee here, you know we will tweak it,
we will correct those issues.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
So years ago I had a President Barack Obama on
a couple of times, and one of the things I
offered him, I said, you're the first president in my
life that's had the deal with social media and the
vile nature of it. It may not change policy, but
does it change the discussions in the briefing rooms before
you go out. Does it change the way perhaps you
think of policy. Because we're in a tribal nation, it's
very loud. So along those lines, I love George Brett
(15:15):
as a baseball player. As a kid Kansas City Royals,
George Brett often missed thirty games in a season. Nobody
thought it was load management. Right, we live in a
different time. Platforms call it out and tickets are more expensive,
so it does bother me. I'm a small town kid.
I went once a year to see downtown Freddie Brown,
Gus Williams, Dennis Johnson, Jack Sikma. If they didn't play,
(15:38):
that was the game I got. And I can see
that little kid in Milwaukee, middle class family go and
Yannis could play, but he doesn't. Is it a bigger problem?
I think it's a problem. Do you view it as
being sort of platformed up by loud voices or does
the league look at this and think, you know, our
(15:58):
middle class fans they go to one game a year,
they're not corporate stewards, and that they want to go
and see their stars play. I think it's serious. Do
you in the league think it is a problem that
is something you want to solve.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
We so much think it's a problem that in the
last collective bargaining agreement you may recall, we added some
provisions to further incentivized players to play as many games
as they possibly can by making them ineligible for certain awards,
certain benefits if they fall below a certain level of games.
Having said that to your point, you know, and I'm
(16:38):
never going to shoot the messenger in terms of whether
it's social media or the media.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
It's a real issue.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
And how can you know for that family for that
one time that they're going to go see the box
or the Lakers or the Knicks or whatever else. I
completely understand their point of view. The problem is as
much as we are an eighty two game league. I
mean take Lebron for example. Lebron has missed i think
(17:03):
three games so far this season. He's forty years old,
he has the most minutes in NBA history, and he's
missed i think three out of let's say thirty seven
games so far.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
I think that's incredible.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Now, for the family that went to the Laker game
of one of those three games, I understand their disappointment,
and I know he does as well. You know, it's
with it with its season as long as we have,
by the way, and whether it's because load management or
an injury, it's still the same impact on that family.
(17:37):
And all I can say is we've worked with our teams.
We're working a lot on the science. I think, incidentally,
you don't hear load management so much around the league
anymore because I think we've dispelled that notion that it's
somehow through some analytics or a computer program that on
November twelfth, you can make a decision that a player
(17:59):
should sit out on December twentieth, which is what was
going on in the league, and in fact, my understanding,
at least of the data that's come in so far,
it may even be the case that some of the
early early season injuries are caused by players not having
enough load. Because even than you again, you know, it's fascinating,
(18:19):
Like when I got to the league a little over
thirty years ago, a lot of players would take the
month of August and like literally go fishing.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
You know.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
They would show out and they would they would like
eat a little bit more, gain a little bit of weight.
They'd come into training camp and that's when you got
back into shape and you'd lose those pounds and you'd
play your way and and and train and practice back
into game shape. Now there's not there's hardly a player
in the league that isn't working out every single day.
(18:47):
Guys even go to the finals, they take a day off,
they're back on the floor. But often it's specialized one
on one training. It's weight room work, whatever it is,
it's not five on five basketball because and a lot
of it in fairness, these players, and that's what frustrates
me too, because they don't take a day off. There's
some of the hardest working athletes out there, but then
(19:08):
they have it in their head that they're more likely
to get injured if they're playing five on five. So yeah, right,
So then they come back into training camp and it's
still not necessarily five on five. There's the preseason again,
minutes are limited. Then boom, the regular season comes and
at least I can't say it's perfect. I know it's
(19:29):
causation yet, but there's certainly correlation early in the season
that you see those guys.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
And it's interesting.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
It used to be we would hear from teams that
you're going to injure our players if they play for
USA Basketball, the US national team, the Olympic team, or
the national teams you know, from the countries they're from.
In fact, it's the opposite. We have fewer injuries and
maybe not surprisingly from the guys who participate in competition
over the summer because the load is maintained.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
They're not overdoing it, you know, I mean, I I but.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
You know, they come back and there's the consistency of
the load, you know, throughout the off season. So I
think this is an area too where better data, you know,
AI is changing everything where we're going to be in
a position, I think where we can convince the teams
and convince the players that actually playing is in their interest.
(20:24):
But unfortunately we're never going to be able to completely
solve that issue for that family that comes to that
game and is disappointed. I will say, just lastly, it
maybe speaks a little bit to the data that we're
coming off. Last year in the entire history of the NBA,
it was our highest attendance and I'm sure I mean
that market no doubt the.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
Highest ticket prices too.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
So I will say, yes, they're fans disappointed, but people
love the NBA experience, they love going to the games.
I understand when there's a particular star you're interested. But
also we've never been deeper in terms of the talent
to four hund and fifty players in the league.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Okay, I'm gonna ask you a couple quick ones because
I know you're a busy guy, much busier than me,
and these can these can require shorter answers. So one
of the things the iPhone has changed everything. Our society
is more caffeinated, more distracted, and more frenetic. Hockey regular season,
baseball regular season, NBA regular season. It's just harder to
get ratings. Events UFC on Saturday, college football, NFL, Olympics,
(21:24):
World Cup events get excellent ratings. It's not necessarily the
fault of a league if there's a decline in Monday
through Friday. And as I look and read stories about
the decline of ratings, my take is it's an iPhone issue.
It's not baseball. Until Otawni and the Dodgers put up
basically the best most talented team ever, the Dodgers had
(21:45):
great ratings. Is that Can you just is it just
possible that, hey, we have contracts that limit the number
of games we can be reduced to. We don't want
to make one and done, like college basketball? Is it
your regular season ratings? They don't matter that much because
I just saw your new TV deals and that the
media makes a bigger deal of the truth is we're
(22:05):
good when it matters in May and June, and that's
just a new world.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Yeah, you asked me to answer shorter, So I'll try
to be There's so much that could be set on this.
So first of all, this season, just to set the
record straight, we're up about four percent on ESPN and ABC.
If you had TNT into the mix, we're down slightly
three or four percent for this season. That's our rating
(22:34):
story so far. We're coming off last season where it
was our highest regular season ratings in four years. But
the issue is especially for a sport like the NBA
where we have a very young fan base young men, yes,
young women, cable as you know, and I'm sure it
has an impact on your show as well that since
(22:56):
you last interviewed me, you know, five plus years, there's
been yet another dramatic increase in the number of people
who subscribe i'll call traditional television, cable, satellite television, or
who watch traditional television, so much so that from a
decade ago, it's like fifty percent fewer people watch traditional television.
(23:16):
In fact, last year the lines crossed. More people are
now watching programming on streaming services than they are through
legacy conventional television.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
So back to the iPhone.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
So those deals you talked about that we just entered
into for next year. Part of the reason I believe,
in addition to the sport itself, that we're able to
provide so much value. Is every one of those new
partners Disney and ESPN, NBC, Universal, Peacock, and of course
Amazon provide their games through streaming. Maybe in the case
(23:50):
of NBC it's also broadcast or Disney, ABC and ESPN.
But every single game beginning next season is going to
be available on a streaming service for and then you
burden on or onus, on us then that we know,
now there's the opportunity to watch this programming on those
screens on those TVs they carry everywhere they go. But
(24:13):
I think as a result, we have to up our
game too. So they're adding more games of consequences, the
colored floors you joked about before for the NBA Cup,
So that gets people's attention. But beyond that, they really
exciting thing to me about moving to streaming services, which
are in essence internet television. You can add all kinds
of incredible functionality, customization, personalization. People want to bet on games,
(24:38):
they can do it. People want to buy merchandise, they're
fascinated with a particular camera angle, or they want an
audio feed that is directed at hardcore fans or casual fans.
So I think, and this isn't just the case for
the NBA, I think for all of the leagues that
the competition is that much greater than it used to be,
and so we have to do a better job engaging
(25:00):
our fans in these games.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Okay, I promise. I know your PR people are probably saying,
get cowered out of here.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
I can ignore them, thank you.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Okay, there's another one. So this really bothers Jason McIntyre.
I think he really has been on this for two years.
He's been very publicly critical of Barkley banging on the league.
And my take is just I'll cut to the chase.
Have you ever called that show's executives or Charles and said, Charles,
(25:31):
could could you not beat down on us every night?
That there are those that believe it takes a negative
tact or tone on a fairly consistent basis. I don't
think it affects the ratings. I think their entertainment show,
but I don't see the research you do. Have you
contacted them at one point and said you guys are
a little negative.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Never ever, ever, and the only contact I've ever had
with them, and it would have been with Ernie. It's
occasionally Ernie and I will talk and he'll say, we're
going to be discussing some aspect of the salary cap
or you know, the CBA, and it'll like, just give
me a primer on what the rules are so that
if somebody says something that is factually wrong, I'm in
(26:15):
a position to correct them. But so that's just on facts,
never on opinion. And I'll go one step further. I mean,
as you know, you know, we we didn't continue our
relationship with Turner Sports that produces inside the NBA, but
we just got a deal done with ESPN and Turner
Sports to move that very show to ESPN and ABC.
Speaker 5 (26:37):
And I'll go further.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
And I love Jason by the way, Jason, thank you
for being a fan that I think in this case,
they are unique. I think sometimes others who are more
critical I won't say names, but we'll get our equivalent
of you or mail and people say, why is this
guy commentation or announcing on the NBA when it seems
(27:02):
that he doesn't even like the league. And I think
that's a fair point if you think somebody is that negative.
And to me, there's always a tradition in the NFL
where almost all the announcers to me seem to celebrate
the game in the case in the case of that panel,
Charles Kenny Shack, of course, Ernie, I always have the
sense that when they are critical, it's your uncle at
(27:25):
the Thanksgiving Day table. You know this is it's it's
the family. They have the credibility. And because I also
hear I don't call them, but I hear from players
in the league or teams in the league, or say ah,
like there are partner like why are they saying those things?
And I think Charles is specially by the way, there's
a reason that show has won close to I think
(27:48):
two dozen Emmys, and and so I think it generates
more interest in the league, and to the extent that
next year that show will be featured on ESPN and
ABC and more people will have the opportunity to see it.
Speaker 4 (28:01):
I think that's very positive for the league.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Well, this was fun, and I do appreciate you not
eating during the interview, because I loved David, but it
was a tuna sandwich every time he came on.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
With me, and I was his favorite.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Yeah, I found that I discovered that over several years.
A real pleasure. If you're ever in La, I'd love
to have you. I think this kind of stuff is important.
I like the poking prad and I just appreciate you
answering the questions.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Yeah, Colin, and I wish I had asked this at
the top of the interview. How are you guys doing
everything that's going on out there?
Speaker 1 (28:29):
I gotta tell you, it's the most devastating thing I've
ever seen. Los Angeles, as you know, is a community
with a very diverse community. People come here and chase
their dreams, and it feels like a lot of dreams
have been shattered by a lot of really great people
in a lot of industries. But I have seen giving
at a level that is heartwarming from outside of Los Angeles,
(28:53):
and in Los Angeles people have opened their doors. Very
encouraging by citizens of Los Angeles.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Yeah, I'll to say, you know, I was just with
some of the Lakers and Clippers executives at some meetings,
and first of all, I think, you know, the Clippers into
at Dome. We're going to do you know, a huge
concert with the azof family, Yes, money, you know. In addition,
you know, I've been on the phone with JJ Reddick.
Of course he lost his house. He explained to me
how the community center, the rec center where his.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
Son was playing, burns the ground.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
So the league is going to come up with a
program with the Lakers and Clippers to help rebuild the community.
So you know, again, the images are just terrific from
the East coast. I'm very sorry.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Yeah, terrifying, But there's a lot of really good people
in this state, in the city. Adam Silver, the commissioner
of the NBA, who presides, by the way over five
different sports leagues a sports League, NBA W NBA G League,
NBA two K Basketball after league, thank you so much
for taking time for us. You I told before this show,
I said, listen, we can I get eighteen minutes. You
(29:56):
gave us twenty nine. I am indebted and thank you
so much.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
Yeah, my pleasure. Thank you, all right. J Mack.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
I waited to the end to ask the question about
Charles Barkley. I kept watching you, but I did ask
that question. Adam Silver, thank you so much for joining
us on the show. So probably one a little longer
than his handlers wanted, but you know what, I thought,
we got some substantive stuff out there and I appreciate
it and thanks to you. If you watched it, I
hope you enjoyed it, and we'll put it on you know,
archives and stuff like that. We got to take a
(30:23):
break back in a second live in LA.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
It's the Herd one More Heard. The Herd streams twenty
four hours a day, seven days a week within the
iHeartRadio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand
whenever you like.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
So we just had Adam Silver on a lot of
things that were addressed. You know, it's interesting with the NBA.
One of the things I have said is people that
don't even like the NBA often to the loudest critics
of the NBA. And that's just that's the reality. But
I see people having strong opinions on politics and they
just they don't really know it or care that much.
But that a lot of people want to stir the pot,
get click stuff.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
But I also think there are fundamental things about the NBA.
I think there are too many three pointers. I think
college basketball like is so valuable for the NBA. I mean,
there's an argument to be made that the more popular
your number one minor league system is the more popular
you are. NFL's number one. That's because college football is
the number one amateur feeder system. NBA is second, college
(31:22):
basketball second, most popular, Baseball's third, Baseball, college baseball third,
and then college hockey is very niche in hockey's four. Now,
I don't know if those go hand in hand, but
I do think in my opinion, and we address this,
I think college basketball is incredibly valuable. Why in the
world would I care about Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese
(31:43):
because of their college experience. It feels very magic inverted me.
I watched Larry Burden Indiana State and Magic Johnson and
Michigan State play so like to me, Zachy he's a
prime example if you had just gone to the G
League out of Purdue one year. I don't have any
relationship with him. I mean, I'm still watching Ion and
he drives me nuts because of Duke. It's not just
(32:05):
because he's finally this year in better shape. It's because
he went to Duke and a shoe exploded and Nike
in the So I think college sports is just a
great great It's free. It's like the best thing for
your health is free water. The best thing for Pro
Sports is that minor league system that advertises Baker Mayfield.
(32:25):
So we have strong opinions about Baker Pro or con.
I mean, Baker Mayfield made a lot of money because
he's a villain to some, because he's overrated to some.
So I think he addressed those and the other thing
that we have to admit this is that in a
more distracted nation, it is harder to get ratings for
virtually everybody Monday through Thursday, Monday through Friday, it's hard.
(32:48):
I mean, the NFL's ratings are down this year. Why
they've added more games, Seriously, that's why I don't like
the NFL expanding college football. The playoff numbers have been
a little lower than people thought. Why they put the
games on Thursday and Friday because they didn't want to
compete against the NFL. So the college football playoff ratings
were lower than people expected. What we do as a
(33:09):
nation now is we watch events. We're very distracted on
our phones. So UFC Saturday Night, College Football, Saturday Night,
NFL Sunday and Monday, World Cup, Olympics, or if you
get a phenom like Otani or Caitlin Clark, that will
move us to Monday through Friday viewing, but even college football,
you put it on like Thursday and Friday. This year,
(33:30):
big brands like Ohio State brand, that kind of brand,
Oregon brand. Now the numbers are a little soft or
softer than you'd expect. So I do think there's a reality.
No league is perfect. NFL is a prime example. I
think they become so quarterback centric. The bottom of the league,
the bottom twelve teams are hard to watch. If you
don't have a good quarterback, you're not even competitive. That
(33:52):
was never the case. There'd be like four three or
four bad teams. Now there's like twelve because the league
is so quarterback centric. So I think that's a real issue,
is that you have a very finite number of great teams,
same teams every year, Baltimore, Buffalo, Kansas City, Philadelphia, a
very tiny middle class, and then an expanding bottom that's
(34:12):
hard to watch. So all leagues have issues, and like
the NFL is a little down this year, college football
numbers are a little down. A lot of that is
because we've expanded games in pro football, we've added more
games in college football, and we're more distracted. It is
not easy to get me on a Tuesday or a
Wednesday night to sit down and watch anything, because I
(34:32):
know my weekends are going to be packed and my wife,
I'm not gonna say, hey, honey, I'm gonna watch sports
all weekend, like like you have to pick and choose now, right,
And so Sunday for me is the day Saturday. I
got a couple of games I gotta watch. You know,
there will be occasional NBA games, but I'm mostly I
get on the treadmill at four in the afternoon so
(34:53):
I can watch East Coast games every day. Starting in
about two weeks, I'll start doing my four thirty viewing
on the old treadmill. But Americans, if you don't have
an event, feel to it less and less. It's harder
to cultivate gigantic audiences. So, and all the leagues are
making money. Hockey a couple of years ago signed a
mega deal and their TV ratings aren't very good, right,
(35:16):
So the leagues are filling the bandwidth here. They're all
making money. That's not the issue. And for the record,
the NBA ratings are up in an election year. So
the NFL ratings are down this year. Why because of
the election. Our ratings were soft in September and October.
Why because of the election we've had the last three
(35:38):
or four last couple of weeks, people are over politics. Boom,
the ratings go up. So this is an election year.
There's a lot of distractions in the NFL expand the
season election year numbers teeter just a little bit, and
all leagues have issues. But I think we are lucky,
and I say this all the time. Here's where we
are lucky as consumers. So few of our great America
(36:00):
star athlete NBA Baseball, basketball, hockey. I meet young people
all the time. I remember, they're just mostly great kids.
I was with my wife in a hotel about a
six months ago. I don't know when it was. It
was the start of the NBA season and all the
New York Knicks were staying at the hotel and I'm
sitting there with my wife and all of a sudden,
(36:22):
NBA player in this hotel jumps in the elevator, the
kid that got traded to Toronto from the Knicks. Really
nice kid, Barrett R. J. Barrett jumps on the elevator.
He could not have been nicer, more thoughtful. And he
got off the elevator and my wife is like, are
all athletes that nice? And I'm like, you'd be shocked.
(36:45):
And then this past weekend, I'm in Chicago two weekends
ago and Zach Levine was at a restaurant. I was that,
now Jmack loves Zach Levine. I've been a little critical
and Zach Levine and they hear everything. It could not
have been nicer. And my wife got very me. She
goes uh. I said I'd been kind of critical of
him before, and she said, no more being critical of
(37:05):
nice people. So the new rule on the show is,
I said, honey, you've never heard our show before, apparently,
But the point being is I didn't even recognize Christian
McCaffrey in a UFC fight, and my wife admonished me
and said, why is that guy on the screen and
everybody cheering. That's the guy that you blew off in
the media room. And I said, oh it is Christian
McCaffrey was wearing a hat. I couldn't tell, So my
(37:27):
wife made me get up from the seat go in
find him in the media room. The point being is
I meet pro athletes all the time, and they're overwhelmingly
good people. They could be I mean, these kids are
rich this, they're famous. They We're very lucky. We are
all very lucky. There are so many star athletes with
so many options, and overwhelmingly when I see him, when
(37:49):
I meet him, when I hear about it, they do
good things. They give the charity, they're helpful people, they're good.
Speaker 4 (37:54):
In the community.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
All right, I'm off my soapbox. We take a break
back live. It's The Herd in LA.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
You want to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
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Speaker 6 (38:08):
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Speaker 7 (38:13):
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Speaker 5 (38:20):
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We have a lot of fun talking about the stories
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Speaker 7 (38:35):
And the fact that we've been friends for the last
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Speaker 5 (38:39):
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Speaker 5 (39:02):
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Speaker 1 (39:16):
So the Green Bay Packers, and I'll get to the
byte in a second from Matt Lafleur, but there is
talk that they the Green Bay Packers, would like Jordan
Love to be more vocal. And I was thinking about
that this morning.
Speaker 5 (39:28):
Is that.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
If you break quarterbacks, let's just break them into two groups.
Superstars and then really really good quarterback. And these are
guys that everybody in the every GM in the league
would pay big money superstars or really really really good quarterbacks.
I think Tier one superstars. There's five Patrick, Josh Allen Lamar,
Joe Burrow and Matthew Stafford. You know, those guys can
(39:54):
win and rosters can have holes in it. Then I
think Tier two really really good quarterbacks, Justin Herbert, Jalen Hurds, C. J. Stroud,
Jordan Love, Jared Goff, Jayden Daniels. I thought Jordan Love
was gonna move into Tier one this year and he didn't.
Still a bit reckless. But there's only eleven quarterbacks on
this list. That means there's only eleven teams of the
(40:16):
thirty two a third that have one of these dudes,
and both can win super Bowls both tiers. Now Tier
two gonna need more help, maybe a better coach, maybe
a deeper roster, maybe the perfect oc. Those are my guys. Now,
there's guys like Brock Purdy, Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield. There's
some ifs. There's some ifs. If he has McCaffrey, if
(40:40):
Fiz protection, if the weather's good, if fies elite. Those
guys are very good, but they're closer to if in
my opinion, there's if. I think Baker at thirty three
million is about right. Sam the same, and I'm not
paying Purdy mid fours are up. I'm just not I
think they're more if so. The truth is Matt Lafleur,
(41:01):
in my opinion, I thought he was going to get
to Tier one. He didn't. He's still solidly in Tier two.
But I have said about Jordan Love he could fall
to Tier three. He's very fortunate. Between Matt Lafleur and
the patience of green Bay and their expertise at quarterback,
he will remain at two with an opportunity to get
to Tier one over the next five years. And that
(41:24):
is a great place to be now in terms of
being more verbal and vocal. Matt Lafleur, his great head coach, addressed.
Speaker 9 (41:32):
That they all respect him, but I think he can
when things aren't quite right. I think he can voice
that as well, you know, when guys aren't quite doing
what they're supposed to be doing. And he's one of
the guys I kind of talked to about that, you know,
because I just think it means more when it comes
from your quarterback than it does from me or one
(41:56):
of our other coaches.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Yeah, and by the way, when I show Tier one
and Tier two. I am less concerned with the exact
dollar figure with these quarterbacks. I'm just paying them. With Baker,
Sam Dak Purty, the numbers matter more right, and it's
not a knock. I think Jayden Daniels may already be
in Tier one if he went to this weekend.
Speaker 4 (42:19):
I may be under.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Estimating him, but that's kind of how I see the league.
And in my lifetime as somebody that's older now, there
have usually been somewhere between four and five Tier one quarterbacks.
You think to yourself, it's a problem. This is largely
what it's looked like my whole life. Five really special
(42:41):
guys and then six or seven under it that maybe
need a little help with something. But you can see
the talent. I mean CJ. Stroud against the Chargers when
he's comfortable at home. There's not a lot of guys
that play like that.
Speaker 8 (42:55):
So the guys that are not on the list, I
went through this Da Baker, Sam Brock, Dak Kyler, Trevor Lawrence. No, no, no,
he's no longer in that. Too many bad seasons.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
No no, no, no, He's really good except when it
rains and stuff.
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
All right, here we go. It's our two. Been waiting
for this for a long time, live in Los Angeles.
It is The Herd. Wherever you may be and however
you may be listening, Thanks for making us part of
your day. You know, I used to have a relationship
at the other Place with David Stern, the late Great
Commissioner David Stern, who was the boss of Adam Silver.
And it was always funny because he would join me
(00:46):
during his lunch and he was always eating during the interview,
which I made sure he knew that I knew. But
the interviews were feisty and fun. And so I've been
looking forward to this because the NBA is still in
probably culturally relevant, and they just signed contracts with networks
for seventy seven billion dollars, and they do get beat
(01:07):
up a lot because let's be honest. Their star players
are often bigger than NFL players, So there's a lot
to unravel and unpack here when we bring on Adam Silver,
eleven years as the NBA commissioner, So let's start with
the good stuff. International expansion, China and Africa. You have
a new CBA for seven years. You just signed a
massive TV deal. I like the NBA Cup. I'm a
(01:30):
distracted consumer. If the court's purple, I know it matters.
I like it. I think it works. So there's a
lot of good here, more good than bad. But I'm
gonna I'm gonna set this question up because this is
something I struggle with. I'm a consumer and I'm distracted.
I'm on my phone as much as TV. So I
have been watching Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese. They feel
like burden magic because I am viscerally connected to them
(01:53):
via college. This is why studios do sequels. I know
the actors. Zach I really like watching him plays, having
a very nice rookie season. But I know him because
Matt Painter and Purdue is a big time program. It
would be reductionist to say he's succeeding because he's big
(02:13):
he's succeeding because of what Purdue did, and not only
that commissioner, but I got to watch the growth. So
I am emotionally committed to Zach Edy. I think your
heart was in the right place with a G League,
but it hides players from me that I want to
grow with. Is there an argument to be made that
(02:34):
college basketball there's I feel like it's not that it's marginalized,
but it's not as big as it could be. It
could be such a micro wave for your stars, and
the league doesn't see it that way. Is that a
fair criticism.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
I don't think it's a fair criticism because we do
see it that way and we're doing everything we can
to build college basketball. I mean, let me take a
few steps back. Like, first of all, in terms of
the G League, most of the G League players are
either international players who didn't play in college or former
college players. In fact, we had a program called Team
(03:11):
McKnight Condaly s Rice recommended we create. There was an
NCAA commission and you'll recall pre collectives and nil money.
President Obama criticized us, and then the NCAA had a
commission and said there should be a track a pro
track into the NBA because it was unfair that the
(03:31):
only opportunity for these young players was to play without
being paid in college. So we had already had the
G League, but then we created this program called Team
McKnight where for a select few high school players, if
they wanted the opportunity to get to get paid and
then come into the NBA, they could play in that program.
But even then we recognized that compared to the facilities
(03:56):
the conditions at the top D one programs, even though
we were paying them and they couldn't have been paid
at that point, it was they were still better off
playing at Kentucky or Louisville or Duke or USC or
wherever else. And so once the NIL and collective money
came in, we actually shut down the Team ig Night.
(04:16):
We still have the G League, and the last thing
we want to do is take top prospects would otherwise
be going to school.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
Take Cooper Flag at Duke. We'd rather he.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Be there than be playing in the NBA right now
or be playing in the G League.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
We want those players to develop.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
So you know, I think there's a misnomer to the
extent that you or others feel that we're not supportive
of college basketball and personally a huge college basketball fan.
I'm Charlie Baker, the former governor of Massachusetts and now
head of the CUBA.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
He and I have been meeting a lot.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
To talk about collectively what we can do to better
develop young American players, which clearly has to begin before
they get to college.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
For the NBA.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
So and you know, we are the league of the
w MBA too, and so I pay a lot of
attention to Caitlyn Clark and the star players that are
emerging and the WNBA and who are coming from college
and when whether it's Angel or Caitlin or Juju now
and these players come into the w NBA as you know,
(05:18):
built fully, you know, multi dimensional stars that people are
familiar with like it was in the old days in
the NBA.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
We love that.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
The problem is, like so many things in life, I'm
not sure we can turn the clock back on that
type of development.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
I will say it's positive, you know.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Putting aside, I think there's some issues that need to
be addressed in terms of the NIL system and the collectives.
It seems like nobody's really happy with it right now.
In terms of the competitive landscape, I think it's positive
that those players are able to be paid, and if
they're able to be paid, particular, the players that aren't
are on the margin of whether they or not they
would be lottery picks or first round draft picks. They
(05:55):
now have a huge incentive to stay in school because
they can. They're not only can get the further development,
but they can get paid as well.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Here's something that I addressed with David Stern, and I'll
address it with you too. I think trades are good
for sports. If you look at the best teams in
the NBA right now, Oklahoma City, Cleveland, and Boston, they
have smart front offices that have drafted and developed well.
They can occasionally make a Donovan Mitchell move or Porzingis move,
or a Drew Holliday, but those teams have drafted and
developed well and they're being rewarded for it. You know,
(06:24):
Dallas drafted Luca. You know they can go get Kyrie,
but lucas the star. The NBA gets a little too
caught up if you take Lebron out. Let's just take
Lebron out. He is the historic outlier. Even Kevin Durant,
Warriors one before him, Warriors one after him, is that
I think the league sometimes is too concerned with trades.
(06:45):
If Jimmy Butler, who's a good player, maybe not a
superstar anymore, went to Oklahoma City, I would want to
watch them more, or Golden State, I would want to
that the league sometimes to protect the small markets. Let's
not worry too much about that. Let's just let players
move because the sense that it ruins the league or
creates a competitive balance outside of Lebron, it really doesn't.
(07:09):
Most of the great teams in this league historically have
always been draft and develop, build a core, and then
add sprinkle in some good players via trades.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
I don't think it's an accident that we've had six
different teams over the last six years that have won championships,
and at the end of the day, we sell competition.
And I hear you it sounds like you're making an
argument for dynasties to a certain extent, that we should
do more to allow a great player to go to
an already great team or an already very good team.
(07:42):
The problem is that it's zero sum. The players are
going to go somewhere. That's the great news. All the
top tier players are going to play in the NBA
and that there is a correlation. It's far from perfect,
but there's a correlation between what players make and their
performance on the floor. And so what we've done, and
I understand your point of view over time is while
(08:03):
we have a soft cap system, it's become harder and
it has been more difficult once you have a fully
loaded team. Then add a great player on top of that.
And to your point, if Kevin Durant couldn't have gone
to Golden State from Oklahoma City when he did, the
team he had gone to would have almost by definition,
(08:24):
if it weren't already a great team, would have become
a great team. And for us, we think that's better
league wide in terms of creating more competition. I mean,
we're coming off a season last year and it's continued
this year. Or I think we have more competitive teams
than any time in league history. And to your point,
the fact that tomorrow night Cleveland and Oklahoma City are
(08:44):
playing yet again, you know, fantastic build up for that game,
incredible competition. We just got to remember at the end
of the day, that's what we're selling. I mean, I
think that's part of the reason for the enormous success
of the NFL. This any given Sunday notion, nobody thinks twice.
If you know the Packers are in the super Bowl,
there's no bemoaning that it's a small market whatsoever. And
(09:07):
I think our league, it's true that if you look
back on you know, the first you know, sixty years
of our league. It seemed David Stern joked, you know
when when he came into the league, I thought the
job was you went back and forth from Boston to.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
La every year, and one of the team's got the rings,
you know.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
And I think the fact that now we're selling competition
in every market, and that in terms of from a
television standpoint too, that you know, whether it's Oklahoma City,
whether it's San Antonio, whether it's Salt Lake City, that
those teams are in a position when well managed to
compete in the same way the large markets can. And
(09:43):
by the way, I mean it's not just money. I
mean players choose markets based on you know, climate taxes,
Some like big cities, some like small cities. But you know,
I think I'm balanced. This is a much better system
for a thirty team league.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Throw this at you. I said this the other day
about the esthetic of the NBA. It's a bit homogenoust,
a little cookie cutter. And I said, listen, I don't
mind three pointers. But if the NFL was just you
could run the ball and throw bombs. No layering, no
drag routes, no tight end screen, it was just run
it or bombs. Optically, it's not as fascinating. And I
(10:24):
love the three pointer, but like and you know this,
you're a pretty progressive thinking. I think athletes are better.
Wemby can pull up and cross you over on a
dribble and shoot. They couldn't do that ten years ago.
And the truth is, because your players are so gifted
and it's such a global pool, the three pointer is
too easy. And I have simply said I would put
(10:45):
the three pointer. I would go have it go into
the bench about six feet up, eliminate the corner. I'd
bring back the handcheck. I do like physicality. Your athletes
are so great it's become too easy to hit it,
and the optics on it are a repetitive. I think
there's numbers ratings that prove people are they they like
(11:08):
layers and power forwards and physicality and not just dunks
and threes. What do you do to solve that, because
I think you've engaged with people and acknowledged it can
be a bit repetitive. It is a bit of an issue.
What do we do to change it?
Speaker 3 (11:23):
That the hardest question is the last one you asked,
what do we do to change it? I agree to
the extent that you start to see very similar offenses. Yes,
around the league. You know, teams have brands, teams have identity.
You know, Joe Dumars is a colleague now at the
league office, the Bad Boys, et cetera. You know, I
think you know the Showtime Lakers. So I recognize that's
(11:47):
the extent that offenses start to look very similar. We
lose that. At the same time, the league is going
through a transformation. Just as you said, players like Victor
Webbin Yama, players like you know Yokich are doing things
big men never did historically. I mean, it wasn't that
long ago, Colin. You'll remember that conversations you had with
David Stern. We would bemoan the lack of skill among
(12:11):
some players that you know there there was a sense
there was too much physicality. Yes, that the play under
the back, you know that you would have you know,
the hack a shack era. You know, there were big
men that just couldn't shoot free throws. There are no
big men anymore who can't shoot many throws, just as
one comparable from generation to generation have never been higher.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
So I think we just got to be careful.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Like the one thing I want to do is I
don't want to sort of knee jerk move the three
point line. We're sort of going through a process now
seeing how these players are adapting to the new rules
and figuring out if whatever changes we should make. I mean,
be honest, I wish it were as simple as just
moving the three point line back, because then we would
just do it. I mean, part of the concern from
(12:55):
the basketball folks is that if you move the three
point line back, you'll end up sort of just clogging up,
you know, the sort of the area under the basket,
and that's not such attractive basketball either.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
I think this is doable.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
I think we by examining the game and sort of
seeing where it's going. I mean, it frustrates me a
little as well, because it's it's obviously you're representative of
how what a fair number of people are saying about
the game.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
And I watch it.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Night and night out, and we're seeing some of the
most incredible athleticism and skill in the history of this league.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
Again Victor wm Banyama.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
But I think you're also saying too that if we
moved the three point line back and what we ended
up with was Victor when Banyama standing under the basket
the whole time, just waiting you're done, that wouldn't be
interesting either. So you know, one, I assure you we
are on it. I think it's a very fixable issue.
I mean, it's you know, we've gone from I mean
(13:53):
I always tell the story like Bob Coosey, who I
don't know, he's around ninety five years old, still stays
in touch with me, and he'll call me after watching
a game and say, I'm so frustrated because the commentators
think that what these players are doing, let's say, from
twenty eight feet or thirty feet and seemingly just flicking
the ball up with their wrists and swishing these three pointers,
(14:14):
that somehow that's easy. They said, the skill level is incredible.
But he'll also say, you know, I think we all
want to see diversity in the offenses. But by the way,
one other thing I'll just throw in I don't think
the players are getting enough credit for playing the style
defense they're playing now as well.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
So it's an incredible game. I know you love the game.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
It's, you know, the number one participation sport in the
United States.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
You mentioned Kaitlyn Clark. It's incredible to.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
See what the women are now doing on the floor
and the amount of young girls who are playing this game.
So as stewards of the game, you know Joe Dumar's
leads our competition committee here, you know we will tweak it,
we will correct those issues.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
So years ago I had a President Barack Obama on
a couple of times, and one of the things I
offered him, I said, you're the first president in my
life that's had the deal with social media and the
vile nature of it. It may not change policy, but
does it change the discussions in the briefing rooms before
you go out. Does it change the way perhaps you
think of policy. Because we're in a tribal nation, it's
very loud. So along those lines, I love George Brett
(15:15):
as a baseball player. As a kid Kansas City Royals,
George Brett often missed thirty games in a season. Nobody
thought it was load management. Right, we live in a
different time. Platforms call it out and tickets are more expensive,
so it does bother me. I'm a small town kid.
I went once a year to see downtown Freddie Brown,
Gus Williams, Dennis Johnson, Jack Sikma. If they didn't play,
(15:38):
that was the game I got. And I can see
that little kid in Milwaukee, middle class family go and
Yannis could play, but he doesn't. Is it a bigger problem?
I think it's a problem. Do you view it as
being sort of platformed up by loud voices or does
the league look at this and think, you know, our
(15:58):
middle class fans they go to one game a year,
they're not corporate stewards, and that they want to go
and see their stars play. I think it's serious. Do
you in the league think it is a problem that
is something you want to solve.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
We so much think it's a problem that in the
last collective bargaining agreement you may recall, we added some
provisions to further incentivized players to play as many games
as they possibly can by making them ineligible for certain awards,
certain benefits if they fall below a certain level of games.
Having said that to your point, you know, and I'm
(16:38):
never going to shoot the messenger in terms of whether
it's social media or the media.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
It's a real issue.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
And how can you know for that family for that
one time that they're going to go see the box
or the Lakers or the Knicks or whatever else. I
completely understand their point of view. The problem is as
much as we are an eighty two game league. I
mean take Lebron for example. Lebron has missed i think
(17:03):
three games so far this season. He's forty years old,
he has the most minutes in NBA history, and he's
missed i think three out of let's say thirty seven
games so far.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
I think that's incredible.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Now, for the family that went to the Laker game
of one of those three games, I understand their disappointment,
and I know he does as well. You know, it's
with it with its season as long as we have,
by the way, and whether it's because load management or
an injury, it's still the same impact on that family.
(17:37):
And all I can say is we've worked with our teams.
We're working a lot on the science. I think, incidentally,
you don't hear load management so much around the league
anymore because I think we've dispelled that notion that it's
somehow through some analytics or a computer program that on
November twelfth, you can make a decision that a player
(17:59):
should sit out on December twentieth, which is what was
going on in the league, and in fact, my understanding,
at least of the data that's come in so far,
it may even be the case that some of the
early early season injuries are caused by players not having
enough load. Because even than you again, you know, it's fascinating,
(18:19):
Like when I got to the league a little over
thirty years ago, a lot of players would take the
month of August and like literally go fishing.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
You know.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
They would show out and they would they would like
eat a little bit more, gain a little bit of weight.
They'd come into training camp and that's when you got
back into shape and you'd lose those pounds and you'd
play your way and and and train and practice back
into game shape. Now there's not there's hardly a player
in the league that isn't working out every single day.
(18:47):
Guys even go to the finals, they take a day off,
they're back on the floor. But often it's specialized one
on one training. It's weight room work, whatever it is,
it's not five on five basketball because and a lot
of it in fairness, these players, and that's what frustrates
me too, because they don't take a day off. There's
some of the hardest working athletes out there, but then
(19:08):
they have it in their head that they're more likely
to get injured if they're playing five on five. So yeah, right,
So then they come back into training camp and it's
still not necessarily five on five. There's the preseason again,
minutes are limited. Then boom, the regular season comes and
at least I can't say it's perfect. I know it's
(19:29):
causation yet, but there's certainly correlation early in the season
that you see those guys.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
And it's interesting.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
It used to be we would hear from teams that
you're going to injure our players if they play for
USA Basketball, the US national team, the Olympic team, or
the national teams you know, from the countries they're from.
In fact, it's the opposite. We have fewer injuries and
maybe not surprisingly from the guys who participate in competition
over the summer because the load is maintained.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
They're not overdoing it, you know, I mean, I I but.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
You know, they come back and there's the consistency of
the load, you know, throughout the off season. So I
think this is an area too where better data, you know,
AI is changing everything where we're going to be in
a position, I think where we can convince the teams
and convince the players that actually playing is in their interest.
(20:24):
But unfortunately we're never going to be able to completely
solve that issue for that family that comes to that
game and is disappointed. I will say, just lastly, it
maybe speaks a little bit to the data that we're
coming off. Last year in the entire history of the NBA,
it was our highest attendance and I'm sure I mean
that market no doubt the.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
Highest ticket prices too.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
So I will say, yes, they're fans disappointed, but people
love the NBA experience, they love going to the games.
I understand when there's a particular star you're interested. But
also we've never been deeper in terms of the talent
to four hund and fifty players in the league.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Okay, I'm gonna ask you a couple quick ones because
I know you're a busy guy, much busier than me,
and these can these can require shorter answers. So one
of the things the iPhone has changed everything. Our society
is more caffeinated, more distracted, and more frenetic. Hockey regular season,
baseball regular season, NBA regular season. It's just harder to
get ratings. Events UFC on Saturday, college football, NFL, Olympics,
(21:24):
World Cup events get excellent ratings. It's not necessarily the
fault of a league if there's a decline in Monday
through Friday. And as I look and read stories about
the decline of ratings, my take is it's an iPhone issue.
It's not baseball. Until Otawni and the Dodgers put up
basically the best most talented team ever, the Dodgers had
(21:45):
great ratings. Is that Can you just is it just
possible that, hey, we have contracts that limit the number
of games we can be reduced to. We don't want
to make one and done, like college basketball? Is it
your regular season ratings? They don't matter that much because
I just saw your new TV deals and that the
media makes a bigger deal of the truth is we're
(22:05):
good when it matters in May and June, and that's
just a new world.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Yeah, you asked me to answer shorter, So I'll try
to be There's so much that could be set on this.
So first of all, this season, just to set the
record straight, we're up about four percent on ESPN and ABC.
If you had TNT into the mix, we're down slightly
three or four percent for this season. That's our rating
(22:34):
story so far. We're coming off last season where it
was our highest regular season ratings in four years. But
the issue is especially for a sport like the NBA
where we have a very young fan base young men, yes,
young women, cable as you know, and I'm sure it
has an impact on your show as well that since
(22:56):
you last interviewed me, you know, five plus years, there's
been yet another dramatic increase in the number of people
who subscribe i'll call traditional television, cable, satellite television, or
who watch traditional television, so much so that from a
decade ago, it's like fifty percent fewer people watch traditional television.
(23:16):
In fact, last year the lines crossed. More people are
now watching programming on streaming services than they are through
legacy conventional television.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
So back to the iPhone.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
So those deals you talked about that we just entered
into for next year. Part of the reason I believe,
in addition to the sport itself, that we're able to
provide so much value. Is every one of those new
partners Disney and ESPN, NBC, Universal, Peacock, and of course
Amazon provide their games through streaming. Maybe in the case
(23:50):
of NBC it's also broadcast or Disney, ABC and ESPN.
But every single game beginning next season is going to
be available on a streaming service for and then you
burden on or onus, on us then that we know,
now there's the opportunity to watch this programming on those
screens on those TVs they carry everywhere they go. But
(24:13):
I think as a result, we have to up our
game too. So they're adding more games of consequences, the
colored floors you joked about before for the NBA Cup,
So that gets people's attention. But beyond that, they really
exciting thing to me about moving to streaming services, which
are in essence internet television. You can add all kinds
of incredible functionality, customization, personalization. People want to bet on games,
(24:38):
they can do it. People want to buy merchandise, they're
fascinated with a particular camera angle, or they want an
audio feed that is directed at hardcore fans or casual fans.
So I think, and this isn't just the case for
the NBA, I think for all of the leagues that
the competition is that much greater than it used to be,
and so we have to do a better job engaging
(25:00):
our fans in these games.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Okay, I promise. I know your PR people are probably saying,
get cowered out of here.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
I can ignore them, thank you.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Okay, there's another one. So this really bothers Jason McIntyre.
I think he really has been on this for two years.
He's been very publicly critical of Barkley banging on the league.
And my take is just I'll cut to the chase.
Have you ever called that show's executives or Charles and said, Charles,
(25:31):
could could you not beat down on us every night?
That there are those that believe it takes a negative
tact or tone on a fairly consistent basis. I don't
think it affects the ratings. I think their entertainment show,
but I don't see the research you do. Have you
contacted them at one point and said you guys are
a little negative.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Never ever, ever, and the only contact I've ever had
with them, and it would have been with Ernie. It's
occasionally Ernie and I will talk and he'll say, we're
going to be discussing some aspect of the salary cap
or you know, the CBA, and it'll like, just give
me a primer on what the rules are so that
if somebody says something that is factually wrong, I'm in
(26:15):
a position to correct them. But so that's just on facts,
never on opinion. And I'll go one step further. I mean,
as you know, you know, we we didn't continue our
relationship with Turner Sports that produces inside the NBA, but
we just got a deal done with ESPN and Turner
Sports to move that very show to ESPN and ABC.
Speaker 5 (26:37):
And I'll go further.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
And I love Jason by the way, Jason, thank you
for being a fan that I think in this case,
they are unique. I think sometimes others who are more
critical I won't say names, but we'll get our equivalent
of you or mail and people say, why is this
guy commentation or announcing on the NBA when it seems
(27:02):
that he doesn't even like the league. And I think
that's a fair point if you think somebody is that negative.
And to me, there's always a tradition in the NFL
where almost all the announcers to me seem to celebrate
the game in the case in the case of that panel,
Charles Kenny Shack, of course, Ernie, I always have the
sense that when they are critical, it's your uncle at
(27:25):
the Thanksgiving Day table. You know this is it's it's
the family. They have the credibility. And because I also
hear I don't call them, but I hear from players
in the league or teams in the league, or say ah,
like there are partner like why are they saying those things?
And I think Charles is specially by the way, there's
a reason that show has won close to I think
(27:48):
two dozen Emmys, and and so I think it generates
more interest in the league, and to the extent that
next year that show will be featured on ESPN and
ABC and more people will have the opportunity to see it.
Speaker 4 (28:01):
I think that's very positive for the league.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Well, this was fun, and I do appreciate you not
eating during the interview, because I loved David, but it
was a tuna sandwich every time he came on.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
With me, and I was his favorite.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Yeah, I found that I discovered that over several years.
A real pleasure. If you're ever in La, I'd love
to have you. I think this kind of stuff is important.
I like the poking prad and I just appreciate you
answering the questions.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Yeah, Colin, and I wish I had asked this at
the top of the interview. How are you guys doing
everything that's going on out there?
Speaker 1 (28:29):
I gotta tell you, it's the most devastating thing I've
ever seen. Los Angeles, as you know, is a community
with a very diverse community. People come here and chase
their dreams, and it feels like a lot of dreams
have been shattered by a lot of really great people
in a lot of industries. But I have seen giving
at a level that is heartwarming from outside of Los Angeles,
(28:53):
and in Los Angeles people have opened their doors. Very
encouraging by citizens of Los Angeles.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Yeah, I'll to say, you know, I was just with
some of the Lakers and Clippers executives at some meetings,
and first of all, I think, you know, the Clippers into
at Dome. We're going to do you know, a huge
concert with the azof family, Yes, money, you know. In addition,
you know, I've been on the phone with JJ Reddick.
Of course he lost his house. He explained to me
how the community center, the rec center where his.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
Son was playing, burns the ground.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
So the league is going to come up with a
program with the Lakers and Clippers to help rebuild the community.
So you know, again, the images are just terrific from
the East coast. I'm very sorry.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Yeah, terrifying, But there's a lot of really good people
in this state, in the city. Adam Silver, the commissioner
of the NBA, who presides, by the way over five
different sports leagues a sports League, NBA W NBA G League,
NBA two K Basketball after league, thank you so much
for taking time for us. You I told before this show,
I said, listen, we can I get eighteen minutes. You
(29:56):
gave us twenty nine. I am indebted and thank you
so much.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
Yeah, my pleasure. Thank you, all right. J Mack.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
I waited to the end to ask the question about
Charles Barkley. I kept watching you, but I did ask
that question. Adam Silver, thank you so much for joining
us on the show. So probably one a little longer
than his handlers wanted, but you know what, I thought,
we got some substantive stuff out there and I appreciate
it and thanks to you. If you watched it, I
hope you enjoyed it, and we'll put it on you know,
archives and stuff like that. We got to take a
(30:23):
break back in a second live in LA.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
It's the Herd one More Heard. The Herd streams twenty
four hours a day, seven days a week within the
iHeartRadio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand
whenever you like.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
So we just had Adam Silver on a lot of
things that were addressed. You know, it's interesting with the NBA.
One of the things I have said is people that
don't even like the NBA often to the loudest critics
of the NBA. And that's just that's the reality. But
I see people having strong opinions on politics and they
just they don't really know it or care that much.
But that a lot of people want to stir the pot,
get click stuff.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
But I also think there are fundamental things about the NBA.
I think there are too many three pointers. I think
college basketball like is so valuable for the NBA. I mean,
there's an argument to be made that the more popular
your number one minor league system is the more popular
you are. NFL's number one. That's because college football is
the number one amateur feeder system. NBA is second, college
(31:22):
basketball second, most popular, Baseball's third, Baseball, college baseball third,
and then college hockey is very niche in hockey's four. Now,
I don't know if those go hand in hand, but
I do think in my opinion, and we address this,
I think college basketball is incredibly valuable. Why in the
world would I care about Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese
(31:43):
because of their college experience. It feels very magic inverted me.
I watched Larry Burden Indiana State and Magic Johnson and
Michigan State play so like to me, Zachy he's a
prime example if you had just gone to the G
League out of Purdue one year. I don't have any
relationship with him. I mean, I'm still watching Ion and
he drives me nuts because of Duke. It's not just
(32:05):
because he's finally this year in better shape. It's because
he went to Duke and a shoe exploded and Nike
in the So I think college sports is just a
great great It's free. It's like the best thing for
your health is free water. The best thing for Pro
Sports is that minor league system that advertises Baker Mayfield.
(32:25):
So we have strong opinions about Baker Pro or con.
I mean, Baker Mayfield made a lot of money because
he's a villain to some, because he's overrated to some.
So I think he addressed those and the other thing
that we have to admit this is that in a
more distracted nation, it is harder to get ratings for
virtually everybody Monday through Thursday, Monday through Friday, it's hard.
(32:48):
I mean, the NFL's ratings are down this year. Why
they've added more games, Seriously, that's why I don't like
the NFL expanding college football. The playoff numbers have been
a little lower than people thought. Why they put the
games on Thursday and Friday because they didn't want to
compete against the NFL. So the college football playoff ratings
were lower than people expected. What we do as a
(33:09):
nation now is we watch events. We're very distracted on
our phones. So UFC Saturday Night, College Football, Saturday Night,
NFL Sunday and Monday, World Cup, Olympics, or if you
get a phenom like Otani or Caitlin Clark, that will
move us to Monday through Friday viewing, but even college football,
you put it on like Thursday and Friday. This year,
(33:30):
big brands like Ohio State brand, that kind of brand,
Oregon brand. Now the numbers are a little soft or
softer than you'd expect. So I do think there's a reality.
No league is perfect. NFL is a prime example. I
think they become so quarterback centric. The bottom of the league,
the bottom twelve teams are hard to watch. If you
don't have a good quarterback, you're not even competitive. That
(33:52):
was never the case. There'd be like four three or
four bad teams. Now there's like twelve because the league
is so quarterback centric. So I think that's a real issue,
is that you have a very finite number of great teams,
same teams every year, Baltimore, Buffalo, Kansas City, Philadelphia, a
very tiny middle class, and then an expanding bottom that's
(34:12):
hard to watch. So all leagues have issues, and like
the NFL is a little down this year, college football
numbers are a little down. A lot of that is
because we've expanded games in pro football, we've added more
games in college football, and we're more distracted. It is
not easy to get me on a Tuesday or a
Wednesday night to sit down and watch anything, because I
(34:32):
know my weekends are going to be packed and my wife,
I'm not gonna say, hey, honey, I'm gonna watch sports
all weekend, like like you have to pick and choose now, right,
And so Sunday for me is the day Saturday. I
got a couple of games I gotta watch. You know,
there will be occasional NBA games, but I'm mostly I
get on the treadmill at four in the afternoon so
(34:53):
I can watch East Coast games every day. Starting in
about two weeks, I'll start doing my four thirty viewing
on the old treadmill. But Americans, if you don't have
an event, feel to it less and less. It's harder
to cultivate gigantic audiences. So, and all the leagues are
making money. Hockey a couple of years ago signed a
mega deal and their TV ratings aren't very good, right,
(35:16):
So the leagues are filling the bandwidth here. They're all
making money. That's not the issue. And for the record,
the NBA ratings are up in an election year. So
the NFL ratings are down this year. Why because of
the election. Our ratings were soft in September and October.
Why because of the election we've had the last three
(35:38):
or four last couple of weeks, people are over politics. Boom,
the ratings go up. So this is an election year.
There's a lot of distractions in the NFL expand the
season election year numbers teeter just a little bit, and
all leagues have issues. But I think we are lucky,
and I say this all the time. Here's where we
are lucky as consumers. So few of our great America
(36:00):
star athlete NBA Baseball, basketball, hockey. I meet young people
all the time. I remember, they're just mostly great kids.
I was with my wife in a hotel about a
six months ago. I don't know when it was. It
was the start of the NBA season and all the
New York Knicks were staying at the hotel and I'm
sitting there with my wife and all of a sudden,
(36:22):
NBA player in this hotel jumps in the elevator, the
kid that got traded to Toronto from the Knicks. Really
nice kid, Barrett R. J. Barrett jumps on the elevator.
He could not have been nicer, more thoughtful. And he
got off the elevator and my wife is like, are
all athletes that nice? And I'm like, you'd be shocked.
(36:45):
And then this past weekend, I'm in Chicago two weekends
ago and Zach Levine was at a restaurant. I was that,
now Jmack loves Zach Levine. I've been a little critical
and Zach Levine and they hear everything. It could not
have been nicer. And my wife got very me. She
goes uh. I said I'd been kind of critical of
him before, and she said, no more being critical of
(37:05):
nice people. So the new rule on the show is,
I said, honey, you've never heard our show before, apparently,
But the point being is I didn't even recognize Christian
McCaffrey in a UFC fight, and my wife admonished me
and said, why is that guy on the screen and
everybody cheering. That's the guy that you blew off in
the media room. And I said, oh it is Christian
McCaffrey was wearing a hat. I couldn't tell, So my
(37:27):
wife made me get up from the seat go in
find him in the media room. The point being is
I meet pro athletes all the time, and they're overwhelmingly
good people. They could be I mean, these kids are
rich this, they're famous. They We're very lucky. We are
all very lucky. There are so many star athletes with
so many options, and overwhelmingly when I see him, when
(37:49):
I meet him, when I hear about it, they do
good things. They give the charity, they're helpful people, they're good.
Speaker 4 (37:54):
In the community.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
All right, I'm off my soapbox. We take a break
back live. It's The Herd in LA.
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We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's.
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Going on in the world.
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We have a lot of fun talking about the stories
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Right, So check us out.
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Speaker 1 (39:16):
So the Green Bay Packers, and I'll get to the
byte in a second from Matt Lafleur, but there is
talk that they the Green Bay Packers, would like Jordan
Love to be more vocal. And I was thinking about
that this morning.
Speaker 5 (39:28):
Is that.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
If you break quarterbacks, let's just break them into two groups.
Superstars and then really really good quarterback. And these are
guys that everybody in the every GM in the league
would pay big money superstars or really really really good quarterbacks.
I think Tier one superstars. There's five Patrick, Josh Allen Lamar,
Joe Burrow and Matthew Stafford. You know, those guys can
(39:54):
win and rosters can have holes in it. Then I
think Tier two really really good quarterbacks, Justin Herbert, Jalen Hurds, C. J. Stroud,
Jordan Love, Jared Goff, Jayden Daniels. I thought Jordan Love
was gonna move into Tier one this year and he didn't.
Still a bit reckless. But there's only eleven quarterbacks on
this list. That means there's only eleven teams of the
(40:16):
thirty two a third that have one of these dudes,
and both can win super Bowls both tiers. Now Tier
two gonna need more help, maybe a better coach, maybe
a deeper roster, maybe the perfect oc. Those are my guys. Now,
there's guys like Brock Purdy, Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield. There's
some ifs. There's some ifs. If he has McCaffrey, if
(40:40):
Fiz protection, if the weather's good, if fies elite. Those
guys are very good, but they're closer to if in
my opinion, there's if. I think Baker at thirty three
million is about right. Sam the same, and I'm not
paying Purdy mid fours are up. I'm just not I
think they're more if so. The truth is Matt Lafleur,
(41:01):
in my opinion, I thought he was going to get
to Tier one. He didn't. He's still solidly in Tier two.
But I have said about Jordan Love he could fall
to Tier three. He's very fortunate. Between Matt Lafleur and
the patience of green Bay and their expertise at quarterback,
he will remain at two with an opportunity to get
to Tier one over the next five years. And that
(41:24):
is a great place to be now in terms of
being more verbal and vocal. Matt Lafleur, his great head coach, addressed.
Speaker 9 (41:32):
That they all respect him, but I think he can
when things aren't quite right. I think he can voice
that as well, you know, when guys aren't quite doing
what they're supposed to be doing. And he's one of
the guys I kind of talked to about that, you know,
because I just think it means more when it comes
from your quarterback than it does from me or one
(41:56):
of our other coaches.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Yeah, and by the way, when I show Tier one
and Tier two. I am less concerned with the exact
dollar figure with these quarterbacks. I'm just paying them. With Baker,
Sam Dak Purty, the numbers matter more right, and it's
not a knock. I think Jayden Daniels may already be
in Tier one if he went to this weekend.
Speaker 4 (42:19):
I may be under.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Estimating him, but that's kind of how I see the league.
And in my lifetime as somebody that's older now, there
have usually been somewhere between four and five Tier one quarterbacks.
You think to yourself, it's a problem. This is largely
what it's looked like my whole life. Five really special
(42:41):
guys and then six or seven under it that maybe
need a little help with something. But you can see
the talent. I mean CJ. Stroud against the Chargers when
he's comfortable at home. There's not a lot of guys
that play like that.
Speaker 8 (42:55):
So the guys that are not on the list, I
went through this Da Baker, Sam Brock, Dak Kyler, Trevor Lawrence. No, no, no,
he's no longer in that. Too many bad seasons.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
No no, no, no, He's really good except when it
rains and stuff.
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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