January 28, 2025 • 40 mins
Colin gives the Raiders a lot of credit for hiring Pete Carroll to be their new head coach and points out the obvious choice for worst hire so far this coaching cycle. He points out the various errors Bills head coach Sean McDermott made in their loss to the Chiefs in the postseason for the 4th time. Plus, Fox Sports NFL analyst Greg Olsen joins the show to explain how the Eagles went from a sluggish 2-2 start to another trip to the Super Bowl
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Here we go on a Tuesday. Jobs being filled in
the NFL, questions in Buffalo, do they have the right coach?
Live in Los Angeles on a Tuesday. It's the Herd
wherever you may be, however you may be listening. Thanks
for making us part of your day. Greg Olsen stops
by today. Kyle van Nee Nick right in one hour
(00:48):
from now. Jmac. It's interesting now that they've stopped blaming
the officials, Buffalo fans are now going closer inspection. Maybe
Mahomes is great and our coach is it. But I
want to start with all the coaches that have been hired,
because I do think there are things that we learn
year after a year about coaching hires.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Well, yeah, every year.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
So Pete Carroll yesterday introduced as the Raider coach. We'll
get to that in a second. Here's what we know
about head coaching hires. First of all, Number one, I've
made this mistake. Don't judge the opening press conference too harshly.
Some of these young guys get to the podium without
a game plan. They're nervous. Number two is organizations need
different things. The Bears need creativity, the Jags have to
(01:33):
solve Trevor Lawrence. The Raiders need an adult, The Cowboys
need a lot of things. It feels like Jerry Jones
just wanted a puppet. And the third thing is hiring
good coordinators as your head coach is much like the
NFL draft. I had dinner with an NFL GM last
night and he said the draft ends up being once
you get past the first round, it's a fifty to
(01:53):
fifty proposition. And that's why I thought Pete Carroll, Mike Rabel,
and Mike McCarthy were arguably the best hires. So if
this morning I had to hand out a report card
to all the teams. Now, the Saints interviewed Kellen Moore,
Mike McCarthy. I don't know what they're gonna do, but
here's the grades. I would hand out to the team
so far, I think most teams have done pretty well.
(02:15):
So Chicago with Ben Johnson, I'll give it an A
minus because he's never been a coach, so I can't
give him an A to an A plus. Stays in
the division. This is an old school, defensive minded culture,
and they went out and hired the young, most creative
offensive guy from the same division. I think this is
(02:37):
who they wanted. I think Caleb Williams wanted. Reportedly, Caleb
Williams went was driveway and scream when they hire him.
I'll give him an A minus. The Cowboys Brian Schottenneimer
feels absolutely uninspiring. It's a d Friday late news dump.
Is embarrassing. Again. The last time he was a hot
coordinator was twelve thirteen, fourteen years ago.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
You know.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Again, I think the Cowboys got caught flat footed, and
this is what it looks like. I would say Liam
Cohen for the Jaguars a bee again did wonders with
Baker Mayfield. But Baker Mayfield also is pretty talented. Made
will Levis a little better. You know again, not a
(03:23):
great opening press conference. What's his vision? Listen? We know
he's a smart offensive guy. So it's the right side
of the ball. But so is Shane stike in India,
and that hasn't worked great so far. I'll give it
a bee. Aaron Glenn jets hire another defensive coordinator. Don't
love the staff I'm seeing put together so far. It
(03:44):
may work the players like him, but the players loved
Antonio Pierce as an interim and a head coach for
the Raiders, So what does that mean. I don't trust
this organization upstairs. Aaron Glenn is fine, you know, we'll see.
I think it's actually a good raw. He's kind of
tap dance and walking on eggshells around the Aaron Rodgers thing.
I can't give it better than a C. I think
(04:06):
Mike Rabel's an a This to me was the best
coach available on the market. He's got a winning record,
he's a culture changer, familiarity with the team. Most of
these coordinators are a fifty to fifty prop. But the
guys that change cultures, the Harbaws, the Rabels, the Pete Carroll's,
those guys don't really fail. They may not win a trophy,
but they don't fail. I thought this was a solid,
(04:27):
a higher and I think the Raiders with Pete Carroll,
a lot of people dogged him for his age. I
do not worry about Pete Carroll's age and vitality. I
think he looks fantastic for his age. I don't know.
Just to me, they need an adult in the room.
His last two years in Seattle, they had a winning
record in the division with Kyle Shanahan and Sean mcvayh like,
(04:48):
they were still winning football games. So here was Pete
yesterday at his opening presser.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
It all starts with competition, and either competing or you're not.
There's one thing that I want them to un stand
and start the message right now. If you want to
be on a great team, you need to be a
great teammate.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
So there you go. There are my grades. Vrabel, Pete Carroll,
a's Ben Johnson, and A minus. I think if I
was the Saints, I would go Mike McCarthy, but he
sort of disappeared off the radar. Kellen Moore is interviewing
for that job. We'll see how it goes. Kellen Moore
feels like a B minus higher. Okay, so listen, whenever
you lose to the Chiefs, it's always the ref's fault
(05:30):
and fan is short for fanatic. And now it's Tuesday,
and suddenly the articles are being more reasonable and acknowledging. Yeah,
our coaches sort of got worked on big plays. So
one of the articles this morning points to three different
things that cost him. I agree with all three. Number one,
(05:51):
so this is the fourth time Sean McDermott had to
go to the podium and answer for losing to the Chiefs. Okay,
fourth time, and each time we've got these like situational
questions about the offense. So number one, why didn't they
use James Cook in the final drive? Totally agree, said
it six times yesterday three and a half minutes left,
had a monster game mistake. The second thing, the article says,
(06:13):
the reliance on quoterback sneaks. I beat that puppy yesterday
for three hours. Didn't like it. Hasselbeck didn't like it.
Drew Brees didn't like it. Nobody liked it. But number
three is an interesting one. The Bills, the article said,
did not help themselves by chasing points early and trying
two point conversions when they trailed twenty one to sixteen.
That's driven me crazy for years, and I always say
(06:35):
this save your special for the right moment. And the
reason this one I'm gonna highlight the third one stop
chasing points. You don't go into a game with nine
magical plays. Even Andy Reid will admit you got a couple.
And Andy's much more creative than Joe Brady or Sean McDermott.
But the play that closed the game for Kansas City
(06:58):
was that snake route to samaj p Ryn only time
he touched the ball the whole game. This was the
one time. And Andy's been doing this for years. He
has been the better poker player and great poker players
knowing to bluff and go all in. And whereas the
Bills telegraphed their early plays and gave their two point
(07:20):
conversion plays away that handful of special plays, Why are
you showing him first half? Why are you going second
quarter save? You know the game's gonna be close. What
are you doing? The second thing is the Bears telegraph
their quarterback sneak. Apparently they had one play in the
playbook and they were going to go to one side
every time in the playbook, So you were This is
the nuance of great coaching. You telegraphed your two point
(07:43):
conversion stuff early. You showed them this is the stuff
we think works against you instead of holding it like
a great poker player. And both Andy Reid and Spags
saved their most unique calls. Spags Corner Blitz and Andy
the Peer and Drew Brees talked about that play specifically,
(08:04):
and Andy Reid yesterday.
Speaker 5 (08:07):
The Chiefs do that better than anybody in every one
of those situations. You can tell it's so well thought out.
I mean, it's the Andy Reid special, like we're gonna
get some kind of a man's own read. Like look
what the play that sealed the game at the end
when they threw it to Peter Ryan in the flat,
they mostly two guys over goten. Re said, you see
that it's man to man and then you run those
guys across to set a natural pick on the backer
(08:29):
and you seek the back. How we used to call
it snake because it's impossible to cover for that guy,
and so he just deals it to Peter On He
goes and gets fifteen yards.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
They win the game. Touched them all one time they
could have used at any point they trailed. At points,
there was crisis moments in the game. Andy just kept
that in his back pocket to the end. By the way,
I don't think. I don't consider Doug Peterson an all
time elite coach, but he knew when to call the
Philly Special Dugs. An offensive coach. Andy Reid's an offensive coach.
(09:02):
I'm not anti defensive coach. I think Vrabel and Pete
Carroll I gave them my two a's. I am not
anti defensive coach. But if you're trying to beat Mahomes
and you have Josh Allen in your prime, you have
got to be a better poker player. You have got
to know when to bluff, got to know when to
hold them, got to know when to fold them. And
(09:22):
I think Andy Reid and Spags you blame the refs
once all the drama comes down and the emotion comes down.
Now now we're being grown ups. Now we're having the
grown up conversation. Now we're not blaming zebras. Now we're
looking in a mirror. Nobody solves any problems pointing. Never
been a problem solved pointing. It's called the mirror. You
(09:43):
look into it. Spags, Andy Reid, y'all sat at a
table on Sunday. Those were the two best poker players
Jay Mack. I know it's painful. I know this is
a very painful segment for you. This gets people worked up.
You got me all fired up over here.
Speaker 6 (09:58):
First segment. I'm like, do I go after him for
the Aaron Glenn's see after he was hyping Aaron Glenn
last week? Or do I just say, goodness, great, you're
nitpicking McDermott.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
You know what is it? What Tuesday morning quarterback?
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Now?
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Hey he messed up here.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
And then I'm just just reacting to what I thought
was a very strong article pointing out the three deficiencies
in these moment Remember, get into a big fight. You
get in this is not this is not the World Series.
It's not seven games. You get into a big UFC fight,
a boxing match, March Madness, NFL playoffs. Everything counts because
(10:34):
you don't get another chance. These are sudden death games,
and in sudden death poker hands, this isn't a weekend tournament,
it's the final poker hand.
Speaker 6 (10:43):
I would say that's a pessimistic view. An optimistic view
would be damn. They fell behind twenty one to ten
in Arrowhead, storm back to take the lead, and then
they got jobbed on the Kinkaid first.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Down and then Alan fourth down.
Speaker 6 (10:56):
Like I mean for them to come back and go
four for six on fourth down, the touchdown passed to
tie it with what like six minutes left, Like I thought,
they played incredible. It was just three high leverage moments.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Did not go. They did fumble it four times. They
recovered all of them magically. Fumble up baby, all right, Nick? Right,
next hour, Boyd the Pittsburgh Stalers, so stale. We'll talk
about that and uh at press conference yesterday in Dallas.
(11:29):
That's cringey, Right, we all know that was cringey. You
thought Friday's news dump was cringey.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in noon Easter nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
So the Friday news dump, but the Dallas Cowboys was
universally mocked and criticized, as it should be. So we
said this, it should have been when Mike McCarthy left.
They got caught flat footed and they just didn't have
a plan. B. And let's be honest about this organization
(12:03):
since Dak Prescott alone came into the league. This is
the third Super Bowl for the Philadelphia Eagles. They are
no longer the standard in their own division. Forget the NFC,
forget the league. In their own division. Philadelphia is the
best run business. So yesterday they hold a press conference.
(12:24):
This was so strange to me. This is Stephen Jones,
who I generally have liked, talking about the drought, the
winning drought. Obviously, we're also evaluating where it didn't go right,
you know, in terms of you know, this drought that
people say we're in in terms of a championship game
(12:44):
or a Super Bowl. There's no air quotes for that.
This is not some Alex Jones looney conspiracy theory. You
have not been to the NFC Championship in twenty nine years.
This is not a Chris Farley, the late Chris Farley
on Saturday Night Live. I don't own a toothbrush. It's
(13:05):
not the bit you do air quotes when you're kind
of rolling your eyes at the insistence of something that
doesn't truly exist. You know, it's kind of a yeah, sure, yeah, drought, Well,
what do you call twenty nine years? This is an insult.
Thets droughts usually end those three decades. You guys need
(13:25):
a tropical storm and then Jerry Jones. I think he
was bragging about the hire, or was he? Here's Jerry.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
If you don't think I can't operate out of my
comfort zone, you're so wrong. It's unbelieved.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
This is as big a risk as you could take,
no head coaching experience, exactly exactly, this organization, the Jones family,
needs a rehabb or an intervention or something. You're your
air quoting drought. Yeah, twenty nine years. You know how
(14:06):
long it's been since the commanders, the lowly commanders have
been in it? A week, three days, The Lions, the Bears,
the Panthers, the Falcons, all these organizations you look down
at have been there recently, and one of the last
ones was the Commanders. I don't think there's any question
(14:27):
going forward, the Eagles and the Commanders will run this division.
They may run the NFC, but the first step in
solving a problem is admitting you have one. And the
air quotes and I'm thinking about this generally speaking, and
(14:50):
I think I fall into this. Fans and media tend
to be positive, maybe overly optimistic, with coaching hires. This
is gonna work. Everybody in New York today. Aaron Glenn
is Belichick. I get it. But the only other higher
that I've ever seen that was viewed as ridiculous was
(15:14):
David Cully to the Texans and it lasted a year
where he was a longtime assistant, never really considered a
head coaching candidate, got the job four wins. Fired nice guy,
But everybody knew you had this. Even Freddy Kitchens had
people going, hey, Baker likes him. I mean Jim tom
(15:35):
Sula before his first press conference, Well, he brings a toughness,
like hardball. David Cully, Brian Schottenheimer. You know, they were
met with that kind of resistance. And I think when
the media that wants to say positive things about your
new coach, I tend to be a b Liam Cohen
could baumb I'm going to give him a bee because
(15:55):
I think he's on the right side. But this thing
was met with absolute resistance people, and that includes the
local media and that press conference from air quotes to
this is the biggest risk I've ever taken. That that
wasn't good.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
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Speaker 1 (17:38):
So the Pittsburgh Steelers, I'm reading this this morning, the
Rooney family. Art Rooney the second said securing a quarterback
is the key, and that he wants the Steelers to
either sign Justin Fields or Russell Wilson to a deal.
And it's very hard for me to watch Mahomes face
(18:01):
Josh Allen this weekend, or watch Jaden Daniels face Jalen
Hurts this weekend and think Justin Fields or Russell Wilson
are the answer. They're both fine, But I think when
you care about stability over ultimate success, you feel stale.
And that's Pittsburgh. Loyalty makes you blind to opportunity. And
(18:25):
when Big Ben was aging, they did not address quarterback.
They drafted one quarterback, Mason Rudolph, third round. Ben got upset,
criticized him after the draft, and then they just pretended
the future at quarterback didn't matter. They just buried their head.
They have for the last three years the most expensive
defense in the league, defense in the league, and they
(18:47):
are projected next year for the fourth straight year to
have the most expensive defense in the league. It's a
defensive culture. They're a better version of the Bears. Is
that it's all about defense. They've just hit some good
quarterback great quarterbacks. But I mean, remember when I say
you have to move TJ. Watt or like a Cam Heyward,
that level of player, they freak out, Well, what is
(19:10):
it getting you? I watched you get housed by Baltimore
trailing twenty one. Nothing. What does it get you to
trade George Pickens, who is not a leader. I'd rather
have him, but I would move off a T. J.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
Watt.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
You guys went and paid big money for a safety,
Minka Fitzpatrick, and that year your quarterback was Duck Hodges.
New name for this franchise, the Pittsburgh Stalers. They are
a stale franchise and our graphic department did an excellent
job with a stale, moldy piece of bread on the helmet.
(19:47):
We are strongly recommending this going forward. The Pittsburgh Stalers.
They are outdated, they spend too much money on defense,
they have no urgency at quarterback. They drafted Mason rue
off third round very early. The sense was back up
Big Ben got angry and they were like, oh, we
(20:08):
don't want to make big We don't want to make
Big Ben mad. Listen, Aaron and Farv didn't like when
the Packers went out and drafted the air apparent to them,
then the Brakes. That's the breaks. I mean, Tom Brady
didn't like Jimmy Garoppolo around. The Patriots drafted a quarterback
every second, third year for twenty years, so you know
(20:30):
it's there. I was reading this this morning in Ink
Magazine's a business magazine that has a line one of
the main reasons why a business fails is because somebody
is overly loyal and refusing to adjust. It's the loyalty
that prevents a company from pivoting and trying something new,
like loosen the grip on loyalty and defense. It's again,
(20:51):
I think Russell Wilson and Justin Fields are fine, but
you watched this weekend Jaden Daniels, Alan Mahomes. I'm telling you,
when Jalen hurts his hum he's an elite quarterback too.
That's just not good enough if that's your plan. So
I've said this, the Jets worry me a little bit,
but I'll tell you where. I think the Jets and
(21:13):
the Raiders are not that far away. So in the
last two years, we have seen Sean Payton go to
Denver with a rookie quarterback and the most dead cat
money in the league and make the playoffs. We've seen
the laughing stock Houston Texans in one year, laughing stock
to playoffs in the AFC, and this year Washington from
(21:34):
A has Matt spill of a franchise, a toxic franchise
to the NFC Championship in one year. Now, now the
Jets have a good roster and the Raiders roster is
I think better than people think. They have their tackles,
their center a weapon and brought Bowers. They have Max Crossby.
(21:57):
Defense was beat up last year, but they got some talent,
actually have their own line, their tight end. They needed
a number one back and a number one receiver and
a quarterback. And I don't think the Raiders are that
far away. But here's where the Raiders and the Jets
are very interesting. So I would bring Aaron Rodgers back,
and this whole thing is getting Aaron Glenn and other
people worked up. Aaron Glenn was asked yesterday about Aaron Rodgers.
(22:20):
They're all getting a little defensive on this stuff.
Speaker 5 (22:24):
And what will your process be like, Well, you go
meet with Aaron.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I know you guys, and.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
We've already taken Aaron and me and moves.
Speaker 8 (22:30):
You're gonna sit there and we don't a lot watch
every game take there is and David, they look the
whole roster. This thing is not about Aaron Rodgers, folks.
This is about the roster when we play on building
the best roster that we can. So whatever that may be,
guard tackle, deepens tackle part, that's what were we evaluated.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
And listen, everybody's on the microscoop.
Speaker 8 (22:49):
That's just what it is.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
So I think the Raiders and the Jets are very similar.
They both need a quarterback for the future. Both have
a high first round pick and a second pick. So
what I would do if I was the Jets, I
would get a weapon with the first pick, not a quarterback.
I'd go get Tyler Warren, the Penn State tight end
or team act the receiver. I would if I was
(23:12):
the Raiders. I would do that. If I was the Jets,
I would do that. Either get the receiver for Arizona
or the tight end penn State. Both could and maybe
should be available. With both of your second picks, I
would go get if available, because you're both at the
top of the second round, near the top, I would
(23:32):
go get Kyle McCord, the quarterback for Syracuse. I think
he's I think he's the dark horse player in the draft.
Kyle McCord, Syracuse. So in both instances, the Jets and
the Raiders need a weapon on the perimeter because Garrett
Wilson's not happy DeVante Adams expensive, and both need a quarterback.
(23:54):
And I think keeping Aaron for one year and the
Raiders getting Kirk similarly on the cheat for a year
is the answer. So you have a grown up in
the room that can help mentor the young second round quarterback.
Because Kyle McCord right now, to me is the fastest
rising dark horse player in the draft, especially at quarterback.
(24:14):
People like Jackson Dart too, so I don't think this
stuff takes forever. I've watched Denver with their dead cap
money and a rookie quarterback. Houston was a mess. Washington
had to replace everybody in the building. I think the
Jets have a good roster. I think it's defensively, it's
a very good roster. They needed another weapon on offense,
Aaron for a year. I'm totally comfortable with it. And
(24:35):
the Raiders. They have two tackles, they got their center
from Oregon. They've got an unbelievable best tight end prospect
in years. They needed a quarterback and another receiver. I
don't think rebuilds. We've seen it now the last two years.
It's not that difficult. This idea that you bail on
Aaron Rodgers, No, make him Kirk Cousins. They both are old,
(24:57):
they both have a surgery. Both played well for about
half a last season. Kirk the first half, Aaron the
second half. We've seen it. There are franchises that I
wouldn't want to be. I think Carolina Bryce Young is
getting better. I think there's limitations to them, but at
least it's a bad division. Jets are not going to
(25:17):
beat the Bills if they could be a playoff team.
Raiders are not going to beat the Chiefs. It wouldn't
shock me if they're a playoff team. It really wouldn't
so this stuff. I think with the Jets getting a
little worked up and a little defensive on Aaron Rodgers.
Aaron Rodgers will be your ally for a year, Kirk
Cousins in Vegas. He's an ally, a mentor in the building.
(25:39):
One more year. That's about what they have left. Aaron's
got maybe two and go draft the quarterback of the future.
But I feel like everybody's defensive about Aaron. Make him
your ally, make him the mentor, get him another weapon.
They'll be fine. Cee J. Mack, there's the optimistic Colin
glass half full. I know you guys are freaking out.
(26:00):
We've learned something in the NFL. When you overreact emotionally
because of disappointment, you're not there's a certain fog of defeat, like,
oh it's the officials. Nah, it was play calling in Buffalo. Well,
Aaron's terrible. Actually, no, the last ten games we brought
it on the show yesterday, Aaron was very b plus
(26:21):
and he could be. And Aaron's you know, say what
you want about Aaron, but he was helpful of Jordan Love.
He's not Brett farb Or. He's a little rigid, a
little defensive, Aaron's been a good mentor to young players.
He gets along, you know, with Jordan Loves speaks highly
of him. Why couldn't he do the same for the
Syracuse quarterback.
Speaker 6 (26:40):
The messaging here strikes me is a little bit of
Russell Wilson in Denver, how he had the run of
the show Aaron Rodgers did last year. Aaron Glenn comes
in is like, this is not about Aaron Rodgers, this
is about the team. That sounds very Sean Payton to me,
as if we're taking the team back from our quarterback.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon eastern nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Really interested to talk to Greg Olsen today, and we
don't get to do it often, so I just wrap
my arms around it when I can. And there's some
things that I really really want to jump into today.
So let's bring him on first. Greg Olsen Live Fox Sports.
Fourteen years, three time pro bowler, great teammate here at Fox.
So I want to start. I'm going to get to
eventually you had the Eagles three times this year. I'm
(27:28):
going to get to that. And you also had Chiefs
Eagles Super Bowl. I'm gonna get to that. I want
to start with the coaching hires. So I'm a big
believer in every team needs something different. I thought Pete
Carroll to the Raiders is a great hire. You played
with him in Seattle for a couple of years for
(27:48):
Raider fans. What will Pete provide? Because you always felt,
really you really liked Pete if I recall.
Speaker 4 (27:55):
Yeah, So I think the thing when it comes to Pete,
and again I had him just for one season in Seattle,
I think there's so many And I told everyone when
I came home, I'm like, there's a lot of things
have every one day or there was a magic wand
and you said, Okay, you're in charge of a team
and you've got to run team meeting, and you've got
to handle situational play calling during the week and preparation
and had a model week to week practice schedules and
(28:16):
communication and vision. All of that. Pete is a plus.
He is as organized and as diligent and as good
as anybody that ever been around in all of those things.
I think the question that comes with a guy like Pete,
you're going to get the leadership and the experience, all
that is a given. I think the question you get
with a higher like Pete is no different than any
other defensive coach, and you touched on it. I was
(28:38):
listening to your last segment before the break, and it's
no different than with Aaron Glenn or whoever. The defensive coaches.
The number one question is how who is your offensive coordinator?
And how do you figure out the quarterback position. You
could be the greatest leader, You could be the greatest
galvanizer and run the best locker room and run the
best If your offense isn't good, defense of coaches get fired.
(29:01):
So it's kind of funny. You look at you you
look at Zach Taylor in Cincinnati, or you look at
offensive coaches when their offense is really good and their
defense struggles, the defensive coordinator gets replaced. When defensive coaches
Robert Salad, for example, when he got fired, they were
a top five defense in the league. It was the
offense that was struggling. Aaron Rodgers wasn't playing up to expectations,
(29:23):
The offense was underachieving, and they fired the defensive guys.
So like it's just it's the quandary that these defensive
coaches find themselves in. And I don't think it's their fault.
Everybody wants a good offense, whether you're winning and losing,
everybody wants a good offense. Offensive coaches, when they're the
head coach, it takes a long time for them to
get fired. They probably only get fired if they don't
(29:44):
have a good they don't have a good offense or
obviously a star quarterback. And you look at McDermott, you
look at some of the really long time, really good
defensive coaches. They're able to weather the storm of the
ups and downs of being on the defensive side because
they have Hall of Fame quarterbacks. So if he can
bring in a young Russell uh, you know, Russell Wilson,
and he can figure it out as quickly as he
(30:04):
did in Seattle, he's a home run. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
You you had told me you were devastated when you
were drafted by Chicago and traded because you and I
both share this. We love Chicago as a city. It's big,
the architecture, the people, the passion, the food. It's one
of it's one of North America's great hubs. So for
Ben Johnson, you know he'd go there for a couple
of days with the Lions playing in Chicago, Explain what
(30:31):
it's like, the bigness, the volume, the intensity, what's been
gonna face.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
Yeah, I mean my first four years in Chicago, it's
a special place. And I remember when I got drafted there.
I was coming out of Miami, which, again for anyone
that's been to Miami, it's it's a city. It's it's
not really like a college football town. It has a
lot of other perks and a lot of other fun
aspects in the tradition of the program. But it's not Tuscaloose, Alabama.
That It's not Athens, Georgia, Right, it's not. It's not
(30:59):
one of those like towns. Then you go to Chicago
and it's this big, metropolitan, big city, but on game
day during the fall, it feels like a small college town.
It feels like you are Everyone there is living, breathing,
dying with the Bears, and it's just a really fun,
passionate fan base. And you know, to add a guy
(31:22):
like Ben Johnson, who seems to have been kind of
the bell of the ball over the last three hiring cycles.
He's been very calculated on the interviews that he's taken
on the jobs that he's turned down, and he was
waiting for the right nick. So I mean you could
I thought watching his press conference you could see it
on his face. That's a roster that has some built
in wins. I always kind of judge a job like
(31:43):
as far as would you take that job, saying like
by just getting organized and just kind of getting everything
set up, how many wins are built into that roster?
And I think at some teams the roster is kind
of maxed out under the previous coach and you've got
a lot of building to do. And then I think
at other teams like Chicago, I think they're wins baked
into that roster with Ben Johnson and his ability to
(32:04):
develop Caleb Williams and his ability to handle those end
of game situations that Chicago let them kind of get away,
and that's the difference between winning for or four more games.
So it's a fun fan group. They've been they've been
looking for a star quarterback and stability at head coach.
You know, the last stability they had was Lovey, you know,
and they let him go through a ten win season.
So they're hoping that this is the head coach quarterback
(32:27):
combination for a long time.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
So you called three different Eagle games. So you saw
this offense improve and mature, I said. I said the
other day, I said, there are drives when I watched
Philadelphia and I think, how do they ever punt? I
mean literally, it's like nine Pro Bowl players, how do
they ever punt? What did you see? Show me the
(32:50):
growth that you saw in the three games? What were
they different? Was it the same thing?
Speaker 4 (32:58):
Yeah, I said, So he called that crazy game against
Washington where you know, Hurts went out in the first quarter.
Saquon got off to the crazy start. He had like
one hundred yards in the first quarter. Then Jalen Hurts
got hurt, he went down, They went to the backup
and it kind of spiraled on him, and you know,
jayde Daniels came back and took him down to win
that unbelievable game. And I remember we came on to
(33:18):
the broadcast and I was very clear. I was like,
make no mistake about it. This is the best roster
in football. This is the best team in football. And
we just spent all this time talking about the offensive
skill positions and of course the offensive line. And I
know I know Hurts comes under fire. Here's what I
will say about Hurts when he plays on time from
the pocket, And it's kind of an interesting conversation because
(33:42):
you look at him and you think back to his
time in college, and you look at him in the physicality,
and he's an athlete and he can run, and usually
going into games against quarterbacks like him, you say, hey,
keep him in the pocket, make them, you know, don't
let him scramble. I think Jalen's actually better when he
plays on time and he plays from the pocket. He
can beat you as a scramble runner. But I think
(34:02):
it's really to scramble passing that he doesn't necessarily do
like some of the other quote unquote scramble quarterbacks. But
you look at the offensive line and the group they have,
they have the best two offensive tackles in the league.
They're getting all of their eligibles out into the format,
out of the formation every single play. Because on most teams,
you're chiping edges, your running back is helping out on
a backside tackle. But with my Latta and Lane Johnson,
(34:26):
you're blocking five on five pretty much every play, and
all of a sudden, you've got Saquon and Kenneth Gainwell
into the checkdown and if you don't back up, I
got aj Brown and DeVante Smith putting a ton of pressure,
deep layers into my secondary. And then the magic of
it all was adding Saquon and I think there's this
conversation of him. My God, I can't believe this would
have been the Giants if it was Saquon, and it
(34:48):
would not have. It's just the combination of Saquon's unique
ability and the scheme and the system he went into
was the perfect marriage. So you factor all of the
offense on top of a Vic Fangio defense that went
from pretty much last to first in the league and defense,
and I agree, if this was a best of five series,
(35:09):
I'm not sure if you're beating if any team in
the league is beating Philly best of five. But as
we know, it's a one game series week after week,
and in critical moments, there's nobody better than Patrick Mahomes
in Kansas City. When they need to have a stop,
need to have a third or fourth down conversion, they
have the best play call at the right moment at
all times, and that's really been the key to their success.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
So when these two Matt A couple of years ago,
you were doing the game in the Super Bowl. What
do you remember, What are one or two things that
stuck out to you, maybe personnel or scheme wise.
Speaker 4 (35:38):
I mean I remember going into the game and we're
trying to map out, Okay, you know we have Philadelphia
and this was really at the onset of the quarterback
sneak and the tush push and how they use third
and fourth down to their advantage, and they wanted to
get a lead and they put so much pressure on
you early in games by going forward on fourth down,
and we talked a lot about how third down they
(35:59):
would actually just treat a second because they knew they
always in their back pocket had another yard and a
half to two yards with the quarterback sneak, and it
turned into just like an offensive slug fest. I mean,
both teams scored thirty five plus and Jalen Hurst probably
played the best game of the season and he was
the you know, runner up MVP to some mahomes that year,
which is saying a lot. He had the one fumble
(36:21):
that they scooped and scored. Outside of that, he was incredible.
He had the deep touchdown to AJ Brown, they were efficient,
They didn't run the ball real well. Jalen Hurts was
he was their leading rusher that game. They didn't get
a lot out of Miles Sanders, yeah, and the rest.
So I think that's obviously going to be a little
bit different. But listen, it's pretty remarkable that, you know,
it seems like the last couple of years it's been
(36:42):
Kansas City and then a rematch, and they got San
Francisco again last year and pulled it off at the end.
And you know, we'll see now they get another, you know,
Philadelphia gets another crack at him here in two weeks.
You know.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Finally, yesterday I said, there's a lot about Steve Spagnola
and Andy are so good and they've been so good
for so long. And it does help when you have mahomes.
It's easy to be a great poker player when you
always have the best cards, right. That helps. And I
think the Chiefs front seven defensively and McDuffie on the corner.
I think it's really underrated. I think Chris Jones a
(37:17):
Hall of Famer, But the tush push bothered me because
I felt very early in the game. The reason it
works in Philly is that Jalen hurts his five eleven
squat six hundred pounds. He literally disappears into a wall
of green. They practice it, they're all in. It is
the standard of the tush push. And then Buffalo telegraphs
(37:38):
it always goes left. He's six to seven. He jumps
up with a ball in the air, and I'm like, guys,
he's a pinata. Justin Herbert tried that once and quit
doing it. And I don't like questioning coaches. It drove
me nuts the constant. Hey, I mean, McDermott said, we
kind of let Josh just, you know, go make a play.
I don't think you beat Andy Reid that way, but
(38:00):
now you played in that. He had success in the
regular season doing that. Am I being overly critical on
that Toush push? And you would if you have Josh
use him.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
Yeah, I mean I understand in certain situations that play
is your highest percentage ability to convert on third or
fourth and short, whatever the down and distances, especially when
you have such a physical body at the quarterback position.
And I remember for years with Cam we ran a
lot of quarterback sneaks. Now we didn't get everybody up
there behind them to push because how we used to
(38:32):
do it with cam again different than how Philly has
really kind of revolutionized that. No one does it as
good as them. But when we used to do it,
we used to have a design play. So we would
call a play in the huddle that was you know,
you know, a two back power or quarterback whatever, a
pass play, run play, whatever the play was, and then
we would alert into the quarterback sneak. So what that
(38:53):
allowed us to do was if you didn't cover up
all the interior gaps and play your linebackers in a
walk to up position and really sell out in the
two a gaps between the guard and the center, we
would then just alert one word and make the call
set hut and everyone would turn it into quarterbacks sneak
and that if you want it to be everyone up
on the middle, everyone's head over the ball. We had
(39:14):
another play the back was at normal distance, the wide
receivers or whatever the formation where we're at normal splits
and alignments, so we didn't have to run it into
every look. And I think what's happened is these other
these teams around the league have seen Philadelphia be able
to say it doesn't matter if you bring in fifty players.
You can line up the entire team and the a
gaps and they're going to get it at ninety eight
(39:35):
percent clip. It's just not the case for everybody else.
So as Kansas City continued to sell out, as they
continue to squeeze down their edges and put so many
bodies in the box, with the approach that Josh has,
which is take it kind of back up and run
almost off tackle, sweep to the left, the timing's just
a little different, the bodies are a little bit different,
(39:57):
and you know, they got it a couple times, and
of course they didn't get it on the big ones.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
So I think people.
Speaker 4 (40:02):
Realize, I don't realize just how hard it is to
do what Philadelphia does and the amount of pressure it
puts on defenses when you get the ball and it's
like first and eight in your mind, because you know,
if you get the fourth down, I got a yard
or two as a gimme. What that does for a
play caller, I don't know if we spend enough time
talking about how much how important that is for the
(40:23):
philosophy in which how Philadelphia and teams like that play.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Yeah, you're good at what you do. Three pro Bowls
fourteen seasons in the NFL. Next time you get invited
to a big wedding, though you could invite me, you
could have given me a text or something. I would
have loved to have joined you this summer. That's on McCaffrey,
that it kind of is on Christian good. See anybody
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
noon Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at
Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every
day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio
or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Here we go on a Tuesday. Jobs being filled in
the NFL, questions in Buffalo, do they have the right coach?
Live in Los Angeles on a Tuesday. It's the Herd
wherever you may be, however you may be listening. Thanks
for making us part of your day. Greg Olsen stops
by today. Kyle van Nee Nick right in one hour
(00:48):
from now. Jmac. It's interesting now that they've stopped blaming
the officials, Buffalo fans are now going closer inspection. Maybe
Mahomes is great and our coach is it. But I
want to start with all the coaches that have been hired,
because I do think there are things that we learn
year after a year about coaching hires.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Well, yeah, every year.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
So Pete Carroll yesterday introduced as the Raider coach. We'll
get to that in a second. Here's what we know
about head coaching hires. First of all, Number one, I've
made this mistake. Don't judge the opening press conference too harshly.
Some of these young guys get to the podium without
a game plan. They're nervous. Number two is organizations need
different things. The Bears need creativity, the Jags have to
(01:33):
solve Trevor Lawrence. The Raiders need an adult, The Cowboys
need a lot of things. It feels like Jerry Jones
just wanted a puppet. And the third thing is hiring
good coordinators as your head coach is much like the
NFL draft. I had dinner with an NFL GM last
night and he said the draft ends up being once
you get past the first round, it's a fifty to
(01:53):
fifty proposition. And that's why I thought Pete Carroll, Mike Rabel,
and Mike McCarthy were arguably the best hires. So if
this morning I had to hand out a report card
to all the teams. Now, the Saints interviewed Kellen Moore,
Mike McCarthy. I don't know what they're gonna do, but
here's the grades. I would hand out to the team
so far, I think most teams have done pretty well.
(02:15):
So Chicago with Ben Johnson, I'll give it an A
minus because he's never been a coach, so I can't
give him an A to an A plus. Stays in
the division. This is an old school, defensive minded culture,
and they went out and hired the young, most creative
offensive guy from the same division. I think this is
(02:37):
who they wanted. I think Caleb Williams wanted. Reportedly, Caleb
Williams went was driveway and scream when they hire him.
I'll give him an A minus. The Cowboys Brian Schottenneimer
feels absolutely uninspiring. It's a d Friday late news dump.
Is embarrassing. Again. The last time he was a hot
coordinator was twelve thirteen, fourteen years ago.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
You know.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Again, I think the Cowboys got caught flat footed, and
this is what it looks like. I would say Liam
Cohen for the Jaguars a bee again did wonders with
Baker Mayfield. But Baker Mayfield also is pretty talented. Made
will Levis a little better. You know again, not a
(03:23):
great opening press conference. What's his vision? Listen? We know
he's a smart offensive guy. So it's the right side
of the ball. But so is Shane stike in India,
and that hasn't worked great so far. I'll give it
a bee. Aaron Glenn jets hire another defensive coordinator. Don't
love the staff I'm seeing put together so far. It
(03:44):
may work the players like him, but the players loved
Antonio Pierce as an interim and a head coach for
the Raiders, So what does that mean. I don't trust
this organization upstairs. Aaron Glenn is fine, you know, we'll see.
I think it's actually a good raw. He's kind of
tap dance and walking on eggshells around the Aaron Rodgers thing.
I can't give it better than a C. I think
(04:06):
Mike Rabel's an a This to me was the best
coach available on the market. He's got a winning record,
he's a culture changer, familiarity with the team. Most of
these coordinators are a fifty to fifty prop. But the
guys that change cultures, the Harbaws, the Rabels, the Pete Carroll's,
those guys don't really fail. They may not win a trophy,
but they don't fail. I thought this was a solid,
(04:27):
a higher and I think the Raiders with Pete Carroll,
a lot of people dogged him for his age. I
do not worry about Pete Carroll's age and vitality. I
think he looks fantastic for his age. I don't know.
Just to me, they need an adult in the room.
His last two years in Seattle, they had a winning
record in the division with Kyle Shanahan and Sean mcvayh like,
(04:48):
they were still winning football games. So here was Pete
yesterday at his opening presser.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
It all starts with competition, and either competing or you're not.
There's one thing that I want them to un stand
and start the message right now. If you want to
be on a great team, you need to be a
great teammate.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
So there you go. There are my grades. Vrabel, Pete Carroll,
a's Ben Johnson, and A minus. I think if I
was the Saints, I would go Mike McCarthy, but he
sort of disappeared off the radar. Kellen Moore is interviewing
for that job. We'll see how it goes. Kellen Moore
feels like a B minus higher. Okay, so listen, whenever
you lose to the Chiefs, it's always the ref's fault
(05:30):
and fan is short for fanatic. And now it's Tuesday,
and suddenly the articles are being more reasonable and acknowledging. Yeah,
our coaches sort of got worked on big plays. So
one of the articles this morning points to three different
things that cost him. I agree with all three. Number one,
(05:51):
so this is the fourth time Sean McDermott had to
go to the podium and answer for losing to the Chiefs. Okay,
fourth time, and each time we've got these like situational
questions about the offense. So number one, why didn't they
use James Cook in the final drive? Totally agree, said
it six times yesterday three and a half minutes left,
had a monster game mistake. The second thing, the article says,
(06:13):
the reliance on quoterback sneaks. I beat that puppy yesterday
for three hours. Didn't like it. Hasselbeck didn't like it.
Drew Brees didn't like it. Nobody liked it. But number
three is an interesting one. The Bills, the article said,
did not help themselves by chasing points early and trying
two point conversions when they trailed twenty one to sixteen.
That's driven me crazy for years, and I always say
(06:35):
this save your special for the right moment. And the
reason this one I'm gonna highlight the third one stop
chasing points. You don't go into a game with nine
magical plays. Even Andy Reid will admit you got a couple.
And Andy's much more creative than Joe Brady or Sean McDermott.
But the play that closed the game for Kansas City
(06:58):
was that snake route to samaj p Ryn only time
he touched the ball the whole game. This was the
one time. And Andy's been doing this for years. He
has been the better poker player and great poker players
knowing to bluff and go all in. And whereas the
Bills telegraphed their early plays and gave their two point
(07:20):
conversion plays away that handful of special plays, Why are
you showing him first half? Why are you going second
quarter save? You know the game's gonna be close. What
are you doing? The second thing is the Bears telegraph
their quarterback sneak. Apparently they had one play in the
playbook and they were going to go to one side
every time in the playbook, So you were This is
the nuance of great coaching. You telegraphed your two point
(07:43):
conversion stuff early. You showed them this is the stuff
we think works against you instead of holding it like
a great poker player. And both Andy Reid and Spags
saved their most unique calls. Spags Corner Blitz and Andy
the Peer and Drew Brees talked about that play specifically,
(08:04):
and Andy Reid yesterday.
Speaker 5 (08:07):
The Chiefs do that better than anybody in every one
of those situations. You can tell it's so well thought out.
I mean, it's the Andy Reid special, like we're gonna
get some kind of a man's own read. Like look
what the play that sealed the game at the end
when they threw it to Peter Ryan in the flat,
they mostly two guys over goten. Re said, you see
that it's man to man and then you run those
guys across to set a natural pick on the backer
(08:29):
and you seek the back. How we used to call
it snake because it's impossible to cover for that guy,
and so he just deals it to Peter On He
goes and gets fifteen yards.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
They win the game. Touched them all one time they
could have used at any point they trailed. At points,
there was crisis moments in the game. Andy just kept
that in his back pocket to the end. By the way,
I don't think. I don't consider Doug Peterson an all
time elite coach, but he knew when to call the
Philly Special Dugs. An offensive coach. Andy Reid's an offensive coach.
(09:02):
I'm not anti defensive coach. I think Vrabel and Pete
Carroll I gave them my two a's. I am not
anti defensive coach. But if you're trying to beat Mahomes
and you have Josh Allen in your prime, you have
got to be a better poker player. You have got
to know when to bluff, got to know when to
hold them, got to know when to fold them. And
(09:22):
I think Andy Reid and Spags you blame the refs
once all the drama comes down and the emotion comes down.
Now now we're being grown ups. Now we're having the
grown up conversation. Now we're not blaming zebras. Now we're
looking in a mirror. Nobody solves any problems pointing. Never
been a problem solved pointing. It's called the mirror. You
(09:43):
look into it. Spags, Andy Reid, y'all sat at a
table on Sunday. Those were the two best poker players
Jay Mack. I know it's painful. I know this is
a very painful segment for you. This gets people worked up.
You got me all fired up over here.
Speaker 6 (09:58):
First segment. I'm like, do I go after him for
the Aaron Glenn's see after he was hyping Aaron Glenn
last week? Or do I just say, goodness, great, you're
nitpicking McDermott.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
You know what is it? What Tuesday morning quarterback?
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Now?
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Hey he messed up here.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
And then I'm just just reacting to what I thought
was a very strong article pointing out the three deficiencies
in these moment Remember, get into a big fight. You
get in this is not this is not the World Series.
It's not seven games. You get into a big UFC fight,
a boxing match, March Madness, NFL playoffs. Everything counts because
(10:34):
you don't get another chance. These are sudden death games,
and in sudden death poker hands, this isn't a weekend tournament,
it's the final poker hand.
Speaker 6 (10:43):
I would say that's a pessimistic view. An optimistic view
would be damn. They fell behind twenty one to ten
in Arrowhead, storm back to take the lead, and then
they got jobbed on the Kinkaid first.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Down and then Alan fourth down.
Speaker 6 (10:56):
Like I mean for them to come back and go
four for six on fourth down, the touchdown passed to
tie it with what like six minutes left, Like I thought,
they played incredible. It was just three high leverage moments.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Did not go. They did fumble it four times. They
recovered all of them magically. Fumble up baby, all right, Nick? Right,
next hour, Boyd the Pittsburgh Stalers, so stale. We'll talk
about that and uh at press conference yesterday in Dallas.
(11:29):
That's cringey, Right, we all know that was cringey. You
thought Friday's news dump was cringey.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in noon Easter nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
So the Friday news dump, but the Dallas Cowboys was
universally mocked and criticized, as it should be. So we
said this, it should have been when Mike McCarthy left.
They got caught flat footed and they just didn't have
a plan. B. And let's be honest about this organization
(12:03):
since Dak Prescott alone came into the league. This is
the third Super Bowl for the Philadelphia Eagles. They are
no longer the standard in their own division. Forget the NFC,
forget the league. In their own division. Philadelphia is the
best run business. So yesterday they hold a press conference.
(12:24):
This was so strange to me. This is Stephen Jones,
who I generally have liked, talking about the drought, the
winning drought. Obviously, we're also evaluating where it didn't go right,
you know, in terms of you know, this drought that
people say we're in in terms of a championship game
(12:44):
or a Super Bowl. There's no air quotes for that.
This is not some Alex Jones looney conspiracy theory. You
have not been to the NFC Championship in twenty nine years.
This is not a Chris Farley, the late Chris Farley
on Saturday Night Live. I don't own a toothbrush. It's
(13:05):
not the bit you do air quotes when you're kind
of rolling your eyes at the insistence of something that
doesn't truly exist. You know, it's kind of a yeah, sure, yeah, drought, Well,
what do you call twenty nine years? This is an insult.
Thets droughts usually end those three decades. You guys need
(13:25):
a tropical storm and then Jerry Jones. I think he
was bragging about the hire, or was he? Here's Jerry.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
If you don't think I can't operate out of my
comfort zone, you're so wrong. It's unbelieved.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
This is as big a risk as you could take,
no head coaching experience, exactly exactly, this organization, the Jones family,
needs a rehabb or an intervention or something. You're your
air quoting drought. Yeah, twenty nine years. You know how
(14:06):
long it's been since the commanders, the lowly commanders have
been in it? A week, three days, The Lions, the Bears,
the Panthers, the Falcons, all these organizations you look down
at have been there recently, and one of the last
ones was the Commanders. I don't think there's any question
(14:27):
going forward, the Eagles and the Commanders will run this division.
They may run the NFC, but the first step in
solving a problem is admitting you have one. And the
air quotes and I'm thinking about this generally speaking, and
(14:50):
I think I fall into this. Fans and media tend
to be positive, maybe overly optimistic, with coaching hires. This
is gonna work. Everybody in New York today. Aaron Glenn
is Belichick. I get it. But the only other higher
that I've ever seen that was viewed as ridiculous was
(15:14):
David Cully to the Texans and it lasted a year
where he was a longtime assistant, never really considered a
head coaching candidate, got the job four wins. Fired nice guy,
But everybody knew you had this. Even Freddy Kitchens had
people going, hey, Baker likes him. I mean Jim tom
(15:35):
Sula before his first press conference, Well, he brings a toughness,
like hardball. David Cully, Brian Schottenheimer. You know, they were
met with that kind of resistance. And I think when
the media that wants to say positive things about your
new coach, I tend to be a b Liam Cohen
could baumb I'm going to give him a bee because
(15:55):
I think he's on the right side. But this thing
was met with absolute resistance people, and that includes the
local media and that press conference from air quotes to
this is the biggest risk I've ever taken. That that
wasn't good.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
One more heard. The Herd streams twenty four hours a day,
seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd
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Speaker 7 (16:21):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together we're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You could catch
us weekdays from five to seven pm Eastern two to
four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the
iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich.
We talk about everything life, sports, relationships.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
What's going on in the world.
Speaker 7 (16:39):
We have a lot of fun talking about the stories
behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture,
stories that well other shows don't seem to have the
time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends
for the last twenty years and still work together. I
mean that says something, right, So check us out. We
like to get you involved too, take your phone calls,
chop it up. As they say, I'd say, the most
interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive
(17:02):
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Speaker 6 (17:18):
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Speaker 1 (17:38):
So the Pittsburgh Steelers, I'm reading this this morning, the
Rooney family. Art Rooney the second said securing a quarterback
is the key, and that he wants the Steelers to
either sign Justin Fields or Russell Wilson to a deal.
And it's very hard for me to watch Mahomes face
(18:01):
Josh Allen this weekend, or watch Jaden Daniels face Jalen
Hurts this weekend and think Justin Fields or Russell Wilson
are the answer. They're both fine, But I think when
you care about stability over ultimate success, you feel stale.
And that's Pittsburgh. Loyalty makes you blind to opportunity. And
(18:25):
when Big Ben was aging, they did not address quarterback.
They drafted one quarterback, Mason Rudolph, third round. Ben got upset,
criticized him after the draft, and then they just pretended
the future at quarterback didn't matter. They just buried their head.
They have for the last three years the most expensive
defense in the league, defense in the league, and they
(18:47):
are projected next year for the fourth straight year to
have the most expensive defense in the league. It's a
defensive culture. They're a better version of the Bears. Is
that it's all about defense. They've just hit some good
quarterback great quarterbacks. But I mean, remember when I say
you have to move TJ. Watt or like a Cam Heyward,
that level of player, they freak out, Well, what is
(19:10):
it getting you? I watched you get housed by Baltimore
trailing twenty one. Nothing. What does it get you to
trade George Pickens, who is not a leader. I'd rather
have him, but I would move off a T. J.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
Watt.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
You guys went and paid big money for a safety,
Minka Fitzpatrick, and that year your quarterback was Duck Hodges.
New name for this franchise, the Pittsburgh Stalers. They are
a stale franchise and our graphic department did an excellent
job with a stale, moldy piece of bread on the helmet.
(19:47):
We are strongly recommending this going forward. The Pittsburgh Stalers.
They are outdated, they spend too much money on defense,
they have no urgency at quarterback. They drafted Mason rue
off third round very early. The sense was back up
Big Ben got angry and they were like, oh, we
(20:08):
don't want to make big We don't want to make
Big Ben mad. Listen, Aaron and Farv didn't like when
the Packers went out and drafted the air apparent to them,
then the Brakes. That's the breaks. I mean, Tom Brady
didn't like Jimmy Garoppolo around. The Patriots drafted a quarterback
every second, third year for twenty years, so you know
(20:30):
it's there. I was reading this this morning in Ink
Magazine's a business magazine that has a line one of
the main reasons why a business fails is because somebody
is overly loyal and refusing to adjust. It's the loyalty
that prevents a company from pivoting and trying something new,
like loosen the grip on loyalty and defense. It's again,
(20:51):
I think Russell Wilson and Justin Fields are fine, but
you watched this weekend Jaden Daniels, Alan Mahomes. I'm telling you,
when Jalen hurts his hum he's an elite quarterback too.
That's just not good enough if that's your plan. So
I've said this, the Jets worry me a little bit,
but I'll tell you where. I think the Jets and
(21:13):
the Raiders are not that far away. So in the
last two years, we have seen Sean Payton go to
Denver with a rookie quarterback and the most dead cat
money in the league and make the playoffs. We've seen
the laughing stock Houston Texans in one year, laughing stock
to playoffs in the AFC, and this year Washington from
(21:34):
A has Matt spill of a franchise, a toxic franchise
to the NFC Championship in one year. Now, now the
Jets have a good roster and the Raiders roster is
I think better than people think. They have their tackles,
their center a weapon and brought Bowers. They have Max Crossby.
(21:57):
Defense was beat up last year, but they got some talent,
actually have their own line, their tight end. They needed
a number one back and a number one receiver and
a quarterback. And I don't think the Raiders are that
far away. But here's where the Raiders and the Jets
are very interesting. So I would bring Aaron Rodgers back,
and this whole thing is getting Aaron Glenn and other
people worked up. Aaron Glenn was asked yesterday about Aaron Rodgers.
(22:20):
They're all getting a little defensive on this stuff.
Speaker 5 (22:24):
And what will your process be like, Well, you go
meet with Aaron.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I know you guys, and.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
We've already taken Aaron and me and moves.
Speaker 8 (22:30):
You're gonna sit there and we don't a lot watch
every game take there is and David, they look the
whole roster. This thing is not about Aaron Rodgers, folks.
This is about the roster when we play on building
the best roster that we can. So whatever that may be,
guard tackle, deepens tackle part, that's what were we evaluated.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
And listen, everybody's on the microscoop.
Speaker 8 (22:49):
That's just what it is.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
So I think the Raiders and the Jets are very similar.
They both need a quarterback for the future. Both have
a high first round pick and a second pick. So
what I would do if I was the Jets, I
would get a weapon with the first pick, not a quarterback.
I'd go get Tyler Warren, the Penn State tight end
or team act the receiver. I would if I was
(23:12):
the Raiders. I would do that. If I was the Jets,
I would do that. Either get the receiver for Arizona
or the tight end penn State. Both could and maybe
should be available. With both of your second picks, I
would go get if available, because you're both at the
top of the second round, near the top, I would
(23:32):
go get Kyle McCord, the quarterback for Syracuse. I think
he's I think he's the dark horse player in the draft.
Kyle McCord, Syracuse. So in both instances, the Jets and
the Raiders need a weapon on the perimeter because Garrett
Wilson's not happy DeVante Adams expensive, and both need a quarterback.
(23:54):
And I think keeping Aaron for one year and the
Raiders getting Kirk similarly on the cheat for a year
is the answer. So you have a grown up in
the room that can help mentor the young second round quarterback.
Because Kyle McCord right now, to me is the fastest
rising dark horse player in the draft, especially at quarterback.
(24:14):
People like Jackson Dart too, so I don't think this
stuff takes forever. I've watched Denver with their dead cap
money and a rookie quarterback. Houston was a mess. Washington
had to replace everybody in the building. I think the
Jets have a good roster. I think it's defensively, it's
a very good roster. They needed another weapon on offense,
Aaron for a year. I'm totally comfortable with it. And
(24:35):
the Raiders. They have two tackles, they got their center
from Oregon. They've got an unbelievable best tight end prospect
in years. They needed a quarterback and another receiver. I
don't think rebuilds. We've seen it now the last two years.
It's not that difficult. This idea that you bail on
Aaron Rodgers, No, make him Kirk Cousins. They both are old,
(24:57):
they both have a surgery. Both played well for about
half a last season. Kirk the first half, Aaron the
second half. We've seen it. There are franchises that I
wouldn't want to be. I think Carolina Bryce Young is
getting better. I think there's limitations to them, but at
least it's a bad division. Jets are not going to
(25:17):
beat the Bills if they could be a playoff team.
Raiders are not going to beat the Chiefs. It wouldn't
shock me if they're a playoff team. It really wouldn't
so this stuff. I think with the Jets getting a
little worked up and a little defensive on Aaron Rodgers.
Aaron Rodgers will be your ally for a year, Kirk
Cousins in Vegas. He's an ally, a mentor in the building.
(25:39):
One more year. That's about what they have left. Aaron's
got maybe two and go draft the quarterback of the future.
But I feel like everybody's defensive about Aaron. Make him
your ally, make him the mentor, get him another weapon.
They'll be fine. Cee J. Mack, there's the optimistic Colin
glass half full. I know you guys are freaking out.
(26:00):
We've learned something in the NFL. When you overreact emotionally
because of disappointment, you're not there's a certain fog of defeat, like,
oh it's the officials. Nah, it was play calling in Buffalo. Well,
Aaron's terrible. Actually, no, the last ten games we brought
it on the show yesterday, Aaron was very b plus
(26:21):
and he could be. And Aaron's you know, say what
you want about Aaron, but he was helpful of Jordan Love.
He's not Brett farb Or. He's a little rigid, a
little defensive, Aaron's been a good mentor to young players.
He gets along, you know, with Jordan Loves speaks highly
of him. Why couldn't he do the same for the
Syracuse quarterback.
Speaker 6 (26:40):
The messaging here strikes me is a little bit of
Russell Wilson in Denver, how he had the run of
the show Aaron Rodgers did last year. Aaron Glenn comes
in is like, this is not about Aaron Rodgers, this
is about the team. That sounds very Sean Payton to me,
as if we're taking the team back from our quarterback.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon eastern nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Really interested to talk to Greg Olsen today, and we
don't get to do it often, so I just wrap
my arms around it when I can. And there's some
things that I really really want to jump into today.
So let's bring him on first. Greg Olsen Live Fox Sports.
Fourteen years, three time pro bowler, great teammate here at Fox.
So I want to start. I'm going to get to
eventually you had the Eagles three times this year. I'm
(27:28):
going to get to that. And you also had Chiefs
Eagles Super Bowl. I'm gonna get to that. I want
to start with the coaching hires. So I'm a big
believer in every team needs something different. I thought Pete
Carroll to the Raiders is a great hire. You played
with him in Seattle for a couple of years for
(27:48):
Raider fans. What will Pete provide? Because you always felt,
really you really liked Pete if I recall.
Speaker 4 (27:55):
Yeah, So I think the thing when it comes to Pete,
and again I had him just for one season in Seattle,
I think there's so many And I told everyone when
I came home, I'm like, there's a lot of things
have every one day or there was a magic wand
and you said, Okay, you're in charge of a team
and you've got to run team meeting, and you've got
to handle situational play calling during the week and preparation
and had a model week to week practice schedules and
(28:16):
communication and vision. All of that. Pete is a plus.
He is as organized and as diligent and as good
as anybody that ever been around in all of those things.
I think the question that comes with a guy like Pete,
you're going to get the leadership and the experience, all
that is a given. I think the question you get
with a higher like Pete is no different than any
other defensive coach, and you touched on it. I was
(28:38):
listening to your last segment before the break, and it's
no different than with Aaron Glenn or whoever. The defensive coaches.
The number one question is how who is your offensive coordinator?
And how do you figure out the quarterback position. You
could be the greatest leader, You could be the greatest
galvanizer and run the best locker room and run the
best If your offense isn't good, defense of coaches get fired.
(29:01):
So it's kind of funny. You look at you you
look at Zach Taylor in Cincinnati, or you look at
offensive coaches when their offense is really good and their
defense struggles, the defensive coordinator gets replaced. When defensive coaches
Robert Salad, for example, when he got fired, they were
a top five defense in the league. It was the
offense that was struggling. Aaron Rodgers wasn't playing up to expectations,
(29:23):
The offense was underachieving, and they fired the defensive guys.
So like it's just it's the quandary that these defensive
coaches find themselves in. And I don't think it's their fault.
Everybody wants a good offense, whether you're winning and losing,
everybody wants a good offense. Offensive coaches, when they're the
head coach, it takes a long time for them to
get fired. They probably only get fired if they don't
(29:44):
have a good they don't have a good offense or
obviously a star quarterback. And you look at McDermott, you
look at some of the really long time, really good
defensive coaches. They're able to weather the storm of the
ups and downs of being on the defensive side because
they have Hall of Fame quarterbacks. So if he can
bring in a young Russell uh, you know, Russell Wilson,
and he can figure it out as quickly as he
(30:04):
did in Seattle, he's a home run. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
You you had told me you were devastated when you
were drafted by Chicago and traded because you and I
both share this. We love Chicago as a city. It's big,
the architecture, the people, the passion, the food. It's one
of it's one of North America's great hubs. So for
Ben Johnson, you know he'd go there for a couple
of days with the Lions playing in Chicago, Explain what
(30:31):
it's like, the bigness, the volume, the intensity, what's been
gonna face.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
Yeah, I mean my first four years in Chicago, it's
a special place. And I remember when I got drafted there.
I was coming out of Miami, which, again for anyone
that's been to Miami, it's it's a city. It's it's
not really like a college football town. It has a
lot of other perks and a lot of other fun
aspects in the tradition of the program. But it's not Tuscaloose, Alabama.
That It's not Athens, Georgia, Right, it's not. It's not
(30:59):
one of those like towns. Then you go to Chicago
and it's this big, metropolitan, big city, but on game
day during the fall, it feels like a small college town.
It feels like you are Everyone there is living, breathing,
dying with the Bears, and it's just a really fun,
passionate fan base. And you know, to add a guy
(31:22):
like Ben Johnson, who seems to have been kind of
the bell of the ball over the last three hiring cycles.
He's been very calculated on the interviews that he's taken
on the jobs that he's turned down, and he was
waiting for the right nick. So I mean you could
I thought watching his press conference you could see it
on his face. That's a roster that has some built
in wins. I always kind of judge a job like
(31:43):
as far as would you take that job, saying like
by just getting organized and just kind of getting everything
set up, how many wins are built into that roster?
And I think at some teams the roster is kind
of maxed out under the previous coach and you've got
a lot of building to do. And then I think
at other teams like Chicago, I think they're wins baked
into that roster with Ben Johnson and his ability to
(32:04):
develop Caleb Williams and his ability to handle those end
of game situations that Chicago let them kind of get away,
and that's the difference between winning for or four more games.
So it's a fun fan group. They've been they've been
looking for a star quarterback and stability at head coach.
You know, the last stability they had was Lovey, you know,
and they let him go through a ten win season.
So they're hoping that this is the head coach quarterback
(32:27):
combination for a long time.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
So you called three different Eagle games. So you saw
this offense improve and mature, I said. I said the
other day, I said, there are drives when I watched
Philadelphia and I think, how do they ever punt? I
mean literally, it's like nine Pro Bowl players, how do
they ever punt? What did you see? Show me the
(32:50):
growth that you saw in the three games? What were
they different? Was it the same thing?
Speaker 4 (32:58):
Yeah, I said, So he called that crazy game against
Washington where you know, Hurts went out in the first quarter.
Saquon got off to the crazy start. He had like
one hundred yards in the first quarter. Then Jalen Hurts
got hurt, he went down, They went to the backup
and it kind of spiraled on him, and you know,
jayde Daniels came back and took him down to win
that unbelievable game. And I remember we came on to
(33:18):
the broadcast and I was very clear. I was like,
make no mistake about it. This is the best roster
in football. This is the best team in football. And
we just spent all this time talking about the offensive
skill positions and of course the offensive line. And I
know I know Hurts comes under fire. Here's what I
will say about Hurts when he plays on time from
the pocket, And it's kind of an interesting conversation because
(33:42):
you look at him and you think back to his
time in college, and you look at him in the physicality,
and he's an athlete and he can run, and usually
going into games against quarterbacks like him, you say, hey,
keep him in the pocket, make them, you know, don't
let him scramble. I think Jalen's actually better when he
plays on time and he plays from the pocket. He
can beat you as a scramble runner. But I think
(34:02):
it's really to scramble passing that he doesn't necessarily do
like some of the other quote unquote scramble quarterbacks. But
you look at the offensive line and the group they have,
they have the best two offensive tackles in the league.
They're getting all of their eligibles out into the format,
out of the formation every single play. Because on most teams,
you're chiping edges, your running back is helping out on
a backside tackle. But with my Latta and Lane Johnson,
(34:26):
you're blocking five on five pretty much every play, and
all of a sudden, you've got Saquon and Kenneth Gainwell
into the checkdown and if you don't back up, I
got aj Brown and DeVante Smith putting a ton of pressure,
deep layers into my secondary. And then the magic of
it all was adding Saquon and I think there's this
conversation of him. My God, I can't believe this would
have been the Giants if it was Saquon, and it
(34:48):
would not have. It's just the combination of Saquon's unique
ability and the scheme and the system he went into
was the perfect marriage. So you factor all of the
offense on top of a Vic Fangio defense that went
from pretty much last to first in the league and defense,
and I agree, if this was a best of five series,
(35:09):
I'm not sure if you're beating if any team in
the league is beating Philly best of five. But as
we know, it's a one game series week after week,
and in critical moments, there's nobody better than Patrick Mahomes
in Kansas City. When they need to have a stop,
need to have a third or fourth down conversion, they
have the best play call at the right moment at
all times, and that's really been the key to their success.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
So when these two Matt A couple of years ago,
you were doing the game in the Super Bowl. What
do you remember, What are one or two things that
stuck out to you, maybe personnel or scheme wise.
Speaker 4 (35:38):
I mean I remember going into the game and we're
trying to map out, Okay, you know we have Philadelphia
and this was really at the onset of the quarterback
sneak and the tush push and how they use third
and fourth down to their advantage, and they wanted to
get a lead and they put so much pressure on
you early in games by going forward on fourth down,
and we talked a lot about how third down they
(35:59):
would actually just treat a second because they knew they
always in their back pocket had another yard and a
half to two yards with the quarterback sneak, and it
turned into just like an offensive slug fest. I mean,
both teams scored thirty five plus and Jalen Hurst probably
played the best game of the season and he was
the you know, runner up MVP to some mahomes that year,
which is saying a lot. He had the one fumble
(36:21):
that they scooped and scored. Outside of that, he was incredible.
He had the deep touchdown to AJ Brown, they were efficient,
They didn't run the ball real well. Jalen Hurts was
he was their leading rusher that game. They didn't get
a lot out of Miles Sanders, yeah, and the rest.
So I think that's obviously going to be a little
bit different. But listen, it's pretty remarkable that, you know,
it seems like the last couple of years it's been
(36:42):
Kansas City and then a rematch, and they got San
Francisco again last year and pulled it off at the end.
And you know, we'll see now they get another, you know,
Philadelphia gets another crack at him here in two weeks.
You know.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Finally, yesterday I said, there's a lot about Steve Spagnola
and Andy are so good and they've been so good
for so long. And it does help when you have mahomes.
It's easy to be a great poker player when you
always have the best cards, right. That helps. And I
think the Chiefs front seven defensively and McDuffie on the corner.
I think it's really underrated. I think Chris Jones a
(37:17):
Hall of Famer, But the tush push bothered me because
I felt very early in the game. The reason it
works in Philly is that Jalen hurts his five eleven
squat six hundred pounds. He literally disappears into a wall
of green. They practice it, they're all in. It is
the standard of the tush push. And then Buffalo telegraphs
(37:38):
it always goes left. He's six to seven. He jumps
up with a ball in the air, and I'm like, guys,
he's a pinata. Justin Herbert tried that once and quit
doing it. And I don't like questioning coaches. It drove
me nuts the constant. Hey, I mean, McDermott said, we
kind of let Josh just, you know, go make a play.
I don't think you beat Andy Reid that way, but
(38:00):
now you played in that. He had success in the
regular season doing that. Am I being overly critical on
that Toush push? And you would if you have Josh
use him.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
Yeah, I mean I understand in certain situations that play
is your highest percentage ability to convert on third or
fourth and short, whatever the down and distances, especially when
you have such a physical body at the quarterback position.
And I remember for years with Cam we ran a
lot of quarterback sneaks. Now we didn't get everybody up
there behind them to push because how we used to
(38:32):
do it with cam again different than how Philly has
really kind of revolutionized that. No one does it as
good as them. But when we used to do it,
we used to have a design play. So we would
call a play in the huddle that was you know,
you know, a two back power or quarterback whatever, a
pass play, run play, whatever the play was, and then
we would alert into the quarterback sneak. So what that
(38:53):
allowed us to do was if you didn't cover up
all the interior gaps and play your linebackers in a
walk to up position and really sell out in the
two a gaps between the guard and the center, we
would then just alert one word and make the call
set hut and everyone would turn it into quarterbacks sneak
and that if you want it to be everyone up
on the middle, everyone's head over the ball. We had
(39:14):
another play the back was at normal distance, the wide
receivers or whatever the formation where we're at normal splits
and alignments, so we didn't have to run it into
every look. And I think what's happened is these other
these teams around the league have seen Philadelphia be able
to say it doesn't matter if you bring in fifty players.
You can line up the entire team and the a
gaps and they're going to get it at ninety eight
(39:35):
percent clip. It's just not the case for everybody else.
So as Kansas City continued to sell out, as they
continue to squeeze down their edges and put so many
bodies in the box, with the approach that Josh has,
which is take it kind of back up and run
almost off tackle, sweep to the left, the timing's just
a little different, the bodies are a little bit different,
(39:57):
and you know, they got it a couple times, and
of course they didn't get it on the big ones.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
So I think people.
Speaker 4 (40:02):
Realize, I don't realize just how hard it is to
do what Philadelphia does and the amount of pressure it
puts on defenses when you get the ball and it's
like first and eight in your mind, because you know,
if you get the fourth down, I got a yard
or two as a gimme. What that does for a
play caller, I don't know if we spend enough time
talking about how much how important that is for the
(40:23):
philosophy in which how Philadelphia and teams like that play.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Yeah, you're good at what you do. Three pro Bowls
fourteen seasons in the NFL. Next time you get invited
to a big wedding, though you could invite me, you
could have given me a text or something. I would
have loved to have joined you this summer. That's on McCaffrey,
that it kind of is on Christian good. See anybody
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