3 & Out - AFC Championship ratings, Building through the draft, Pro Bowl is a joke - The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. What is going on everybody? Hopefully everyone is
having a great day, great morning, great afternoon. Whenever you

(00:21):
listening to this, great night. Who knows it's podcast. Uh,
We're gonna talk a little football today. A lot going on.
The AFC Championship game shattered some records with viewers. You
got Pete Carroll, John Spytech, what to do with Max Crosby,
Tom Brady, does he have any opinions? We have the
Senior Bowl starting. That means the draft and the process

(00:46):
is starting because all the teams go down to Mobile, Alabama,
and I wanted to look the Eagles and the Chiefs
that they have something in common and how they built
their team, and just some other NFL stories as well
as a lot middle Coff mail bag at John Middlecoff
At John Middlecoff is the Instagram fire in those dms?

(01:07):
Easiest way to get on the show, get a question answered.
I actually recorded it earlier today. Long mail bag today,
So try to bang out a bunch of your guys
questions and other than that. What day is today? Tuesday?
So you're probably listening to us on a Wednesday. Yeah,
we'll just keep on fire and Pro Bowl week, baby,
So make sure you subscribe to the podcast if you

(01:28):
listen on Collin's feed. If you like a little thing
called YouTube, I got the YouTube Premium. I just bought
it so I don't have to do any ads. It's fantastic.
You can stream even with your phone closed. I can
listen to a video. Highly recommend it. Actually free ad
there not even a Google ampay me. But make sure
you check out the YouTube channel. We got all of
our videos up there as well. But before we dive

(01:51):
into some football, you know, I got to tell you
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lowest prices guaranteed. Okay, well, let's start with the championship

(02:57):
game and the Bills and Chiefs did a little bit
over fifty seven million people. A lot of eyeballs on
that football game. And I think what makes the NFL
much more unique than the other sports. Obviously the baseball
and basketball and hockey don't sniff those type numbers for

(03:19):
any playoff experience, but like those look at the Dodgers
Yankees highest rated World Series in a long long time.
It's the two biggest brands in the league. Like what
were the biggest NBA games of my lifetime? Shaq and
Kobe included Michael Jordan, Steph Curry and Kevin Durant and
Lebron James very very predicated on either the major major

(03:43):
markets or the all time superstars, and ideally combined or football,
I don't need a major market. The highest rated NFC
Championship game in the history of the league is the
Niners and the Giants in twenty twelve. Perfect combination. You
get the biggest city in America, the New York Giants,
who'd already won a Super Bowl with ELI. You get

(04:04):
Jim Harbaugh resurrecting the San Franco forty nine ers, one
of the biggest brands, also one of the biggest markets,
playing in the NFC Championship game. That's a BP fastball.
But what about when you get small markets like Buffalo
and Kansas City. Well, forever in society, we all watched
the same thing. When I was a kid, my television

(04:25):
channels were the same as my neighbors. We had five
of them, NBC, ABC, CBS, Fox, and we had like
Local thirty one where they'd play the Sacramento Kings games
and we get some Giants games. I didn't even get
cable till I was in junior high high school, basically
like two thousand. It's why when you look back at
some of the highest rated television shows of all time,

(04:47):
It's like Mash in the eighties, or Cheers in the eighties,
or even the Seinfeld episodes. Everyone was watching those shows.
Obviously they were good. Most people would agree, but you
didn't have that many options. You and me. I could
text one hundred people. I don't even know if I
know one hundred people. But if I texted one hundred

(05:08):
people and I said, let's all pick a show tonight
and not tell the other one which one we pick,
there is a decent chance that a small percentage of
people would watch the same thing. It's like, do you
go to Netflix, do you go to Amazon Prime? Do
you go to Paramount Plus? I mean, I go to
my Roku. I have so many options. I can never
find anything to watch, and I got a million apps

(05:29):
of streaming services. It's like, how is this humanly possible?
I sometimes I have to rely on my mom. She's like, oh,
the new Night Agents out, check that out. I'm like, ah,
that's not bad. But I can go for weeks like
there is nothing to watch. I probably should read a
book and instead I'll just watch some stupid show. But
that's not the case anymore. And it's why it's so
difficult to get eyeballs on things. We have a million options.

(05:51):
I see it in the world I live in the media.
People that used to dominate in the profession of either
talking or writing, or people that let's just say, covered sports.
You had to work for a major publication, either one
of the huge newspapers or one of the major magazines,
or be on the big quote unquote radio station in town.

(06:13):
I'd say, now all those are borderline irrelevant beside three
or four towns, and things change and it is hard
to grab people's attention. Gary Vee has been beating this
drum forever. We day trade attention. Now that is the
business of most people. It's definitely the business I'm in
trying to get people to listen and enjoy it and

(06:34):
keep coming back and tell their friends about it and
be entertained by this little old podcast. And I think
the NFL gives us something that most people can universally
agree on. Whether you are, you know, just a die
hard scheme head, like I wonder what type defense Bags
is gonna run today, we're just like, you know, I
don't really like Patrick Malmes, Lamar Jackson's fun. Andy Reid

(06:57):
feels like a good guy. I'm a diehard Viking, right.
I just like watching the Vikings whenever they're on Sunday.
But one thing is clear is when I was a kid,
the other three sports were massive to basketball baseball in
the NFL, they felt like all equals. But when you
turned on a baseball game, you knew that Greg Maddox

(07:18):
was going to play for the Atlanta Braves for a
long long time. I knew when Barry Bonds came to
the Giants as a free agent, he was going to
be there for a while. And I think in football
it's the only sport you know. Basketball during the Adam
Silver era a lot of red flags during that time,
I would say the number one thing that jumps out
guys leave teams all the time. It's been I would say,

(07:39):
define the Adam Silver era has been almost said waste
management has been load management and just player movement, which
is fine and it's no one has a problem if
you're a free agent taken off. But it does feel
like guys are always demanding trades. Hell, before I jumped
on today, the Sacramento Kings star player want to trade

(08:02):
and they're probably gonna trade him. Why because that's just
what happens in the NBA. Yet in football, when I
say Patrick Mahomes, when I say Josh Allen, you go.
Those guys are going to be on their team as
long as things are going well. They want to stay,
the team's gonna want him. And really, quarterbacks like Patrick
Mahomes more than likely, if he can stay healthy, is

(08:23):
going to have a fifteen to twenty year career on
the Kansas City Chiefs. Josh Allen will be on the
Buffalo Bills for a similar length of time if he
can stay healthy. And we all know that going in.
There's a decent chance that Travis Kelcey, who will go
down as the greatest pass catching tight end of all time,
if he retires at you know, when the Super Bowl

(08:45):
is over, win or lose, which kind of feels like
is gonna happen, We'll have spent his entire career for
one team and for one coach. Chris Jones more than likely,
even if he ends his career for someone else, will
spend ninety five percent of his career playing for the Chiefs.
Trent McDuffie is at minimum going to get a second

(09:07):
contract in play seven eight, nine years for the Chiefs.
So you get this build up of the reality television
show that is the NFL because you get to grow
with the guys because they don't leave. Now, I'm not
saying that player movement doesn't happen. We get trades, we
get free agency, but the main players, the stars of

(09:28):
the show, don't leave unless someone wants them gone, typically
with the team, and if the team wants them gone,
like the Packers with Aaron Rodgers, there's usually a reason,
or Pete Carroll in Seattle with Russell Wilson. It doesn't
just happen on a whim, and it rarely ever happens
of I demand a trade, they usually go cool. See

(09:49):
a trading camp. And I think the NFL, you know,
resonates with people for a variety of reasons. But I
think the main reason is sign me up for the
Bills and the Chiefs another five times and you know what,
I know what I'm gonna get Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes.
The other sports just can't say that. Shoe Heo Tani

(10:09):
Juan Soto is a good example. He just got almost
eight hundred million dollars. He is in the prime of
his career, in his mid twenties. He has been on
four teams, the Washington Nationals, the Padres, the Yankees, and
now the Mets in the last twenty four months. Not

(10:31):
ideal that would never happen in the NFL. Okay, the
Senior Bowl. This is a all star game, the top
all star game typically in for college players and basically
everyone in the NFL unless you get a brand new
coach or GM. But every scouting department is represented and

(10:54):
the majority of coaches and their coaching staffs and the
decision makers attend this event because you get a ton
of guys who are going to be drafted just throughout
the draft, but first second, third round pick, so guys,
they're going to be top eighty hundred draft picks. And
I was watching the day because it's just a good broadcast.

(11:15):
My guy Daniel Jeremiah and Charles Davis and Rhett or
just do a good job. It's entertaining to have on
during the day this week, and it got me thinking, like,
how did the Chiefs and the Eagles build their team?
Because when I worked in Philly, and I think the
last time I talked to Howie he still does this
and now it includes his team, but he always put

(11:37):
the final four in the NFL their rosters, and I
would imagine what the Eagles. It's all digitized, but when
I was there, we used to have it on a
board on his wall of the final four in the NFL,
so he could just look at the rosters during the offseason,
because that's who you're chasing if you're not there. And
it's like, how did the Eagles and the Chiefs build

(11:58):
their team? Because we always say it. I always say it.
I was always taught this. We hear it said non stop.
Anytime you watch one of these press conferences with the
new coach with a new GM, they all reiterate this,
and rightfully so build through the draft, build through the draft,
develop those players, and then resign those players. The Eagles

(12:21):
now it's you know, when you look at a team
starting lineup, defense can change by a player, because if
you come out with two running backs, a tight end,
and two wide receivers, my nickel corner more than likely
will not be on the field. And if you come
out with three wide receivers, the nickel corner will be
on the field. So it can change by a guy.

(12:42):
But the Eagles and the Chiefs are nickel corners are
from their draft. I got both teams having drafted fifteen
of their twenty two starters. But the number one thing
that stood out to me is all the Chiefs d
linemen starting defensive linemen and all the Eagles starting defensive
line are draft picks. Because both teams are paying their

(13:03):
quarterback a lot of money. So if you're gonna pay
your quarterback a lot of money, you're going to have
to draft well. And the most expensive position non quarterback
is gonna be a defensive lineman. Ask the Chiefs Chris
Jones makes a ton of money, but they have drafted
well around him. Help They use one of their other
first round picks a couple of years ago on George

(13:24):
Karlovski's Who's really good player? The Eagles their entire front,
from Nolan Smith to Jordan Davis to Jalen Carter to
sweat our draft picks because you look at their offense
and you go, well, howie, uh, how'd you build this thing?
They're spending a lot of money on offense. Right tackle
makes a lot, left tackle makes a lot. Quarterback paid

(13:48):
running back thirteen million dollars a year, tight end makes
a lot. Both receivers they have invested a ton of
money into their offense, but a lot of those guys
are drafted. Guys on offense, eight guys on defense, Chiefs
seven guys on offense, eight guys on defense. All their
defensive lineman starters both teams drafted and on offense. The

(14:10):
Eagles four of their five starters are drafted. The Chiefs
three of their five starters are drafted, and early on
in the season it would have been four, but they
had to put the rookie on the bench. And I
think when you look at the Eagles, their only starter
on the offensive line who's not a draft pick is
McKai Beckton, who they're not paying much money. And when

(14:32):
you look at the Eagles draft these last really four years,
their first couple picks in each draft they don't miss
and they have not missed, so that has allowed them
to go through the ups and downs throughout a season
with their quarterback, who has some good games and can
be awesome. Obviously is a great running threat and can

(14:54):
be an explosive passer as a playmaker, but can have
some bad games. But their team is so good and
they've hit on so many draft picks it doesn't matter.
And this year they revamp their coaching staff. It's like
all the talent, all their hits on during the draft,
it's all come together. The Chiefs, i'd argue, have the
best coaching staff in the NFL. Based on two guys.

(15:15):
They have the best head coach who's also a play caller,
and the best defensive coordinator. It's like, how do you
beat that? And obviously they got the best quarterback Slash,
one of the greatest tight ends of all time, and
one of the best defensive linemen and Chris Jones, plus
a ton of other guys they've drafted that are really good.
And here's the thing. When you draft and you hit
on the picks, you know them well and they know

(15:35):
you well. It's why free agency can be so difficulty.
Guys a free agent for a reason. This is not
Baseball where it's like, well the Tampa Bay Rays couldn't
afford them, well, the Oakland A's they just were never
gonna pay them. Every team can pay anyone in the NFL.
They just choose who they pay and who they let walk.
So when you're signing a guy in free agency or

(15:56):
you're trading for a player, there's typically a reason. Then
that doesn't mean he's not a good player. It doesn't
mean you shouldn't want to trade for him, but like
he's available, and typically core guys who are high end
players like Lane Johnson's never been available, right, That's never happened.
Chris Jones was never available, Travis Kelcey never available, Dallas

(16:17):
Goddard since he's been in the league, has never been available.
DeVante Smith not available. You know, Jalen Carter ain't gonna
be available, So you gotta take advantage of the draft,
not just the first round, but the second round as well.
In both these two teams with Howie Veach have done
a fucking unreal job. Speaking of new administration, the Pete

(16:38):
Carroll John spytech, I saw Peter Schrager tweeting about it.
The vibe for high it was. I got a couple
of texts from people in the league like it was
hard to not watch that and go, this is cool,
like just seeing Pete's energy, how excited he was, and
one thing jumped out. I saw Florio wrote about this.
They mentioned Tom Brady like every other sentence. I mean

(16:59):
Tom Brady as well be the majority owner, might as
well be the team president because Pete Carroll couldn't stop
talking about him. I mean, he hammered that home every
question he was asking. It was kind of crazy. So
like this is where when people go I didn't think
Fox had to make a statement either, have Tom make
the statement a couple weeks ago. We all get it,

(17:20):
no one actually cares. I get why people in the
league cares, but I'm just saying me as the consumer,
just like Tom just called the game, I understand you're
part of the Raiders, but the reality is he's not
just a part of the Raiders. He's a big part
of the Raiders. And I think a big reason that
John Spytech and Pete Carroll are they are now running
the Raiders is because of Tom Brady. And when I

(17:41):
look at the Raiders, their team's not very good. You know, today,
Andrew Berry, the general manager of the Cleveland Browns, I
like a lot of people think like you know, I
could see Miles Garrett getting traded. He doubled down. Not
only are we not trading him, we plan on side
him to another contract and plan on having him retire

(18:02):
to be a Cleveland brown Now, listen, this is this
is a unique industry where people in charge constantly have
to talk right, even like Fortune five hundred companies, you
probably only have to talk at like your quarterly earnings.
If you're a CEO, like you can just shut your
mouth a lot of the time. Like in the NFL,

(18:23):
a coach one he's during the season, he's mandated talk
like three times a week. And now like your GM
senior ball the combine during free agency, like there's just
gonna be a lot of microphones in front of you,
Like it's hard to avoid. So sometimes you just have
to say things to kind of calm the waters. And
other times, like you say something like that, I don't
see why he would put that out there if he

(18:45):
didn't believe it. I don't blame him for saying that
Miles Garrett's gonna go down as like a first ballot
Hall of Famer. I would say Max Crosby has an
ability if he can stay healthy, like he's a first
ballot first ballot'd be strong and mean, He's got a
long way to go, but he's a Hall of Fame talent.
The difference is the if they're just healthy and they
get decent quarterback play, we all agree like they could
be a really competitive team. That is not true with

(19:05):
the Raiders that they're a year away from being a
year away. And this is not Pete or John spy
Tech's fault. And I am pro the Pete Carroll higher.
But the one problem is that this is not, like,
you know, just some reload. This is a true rebuild
and the only true asset you have. Because Brock Bauers
is a second year to play, you're obviously he's an

(19:27):
asset you keep. Max Crosby is gonna be twenty eighth
this fault, and he's gone on record and saying like
I'm out of guaranteed money, aka, like it's time to
change my contract around. I also think Max Crosby's been
pretty open about the last couple of years, specifically this
year is like, I'm kind of tired of losing. Don't
blame them. It's not easy to play for the Raiders

(19:49):
your entire career, the last couple of decades, you lose
a lot. And Pete Carroll. When I think Max Crosby,
I think a guy like Pete Carroll. He's gonna fucking
love Max Crosby football. G I think of all the
top coaches in the NFL, Andy Reid, Sean McVay, right,
They Kyle Shanahan, the Packers, the Dan Campbell, like they

(20:10):
would all love Max Crosby. Max Crosby is a football
guy's dream, whether you're a coach or whether you're a GM.
But he's also the raiders only true asset to really
help start this rebuild. And I think, like you gotta
think long and hard. I texted, you know, essentially assistant
GM in the league. He thought that you could get

(20:32):
multiple ones a player and like a fourth round pick
for Max Crosby one just because, like I said, how
highly he thought of in the football community, and just
how his energy and everything changes your franchise. And you
put him on the Lions, on the Packers, you know,
on the Bills, on another team, who is right there,

(20:52):
it's a game changer. You put him on a team
with no talent and no quarterback, you can only do
so much. And I I just wonder, And this is
where you know John spy Tech, Pete Carroll, they said
all the right things. They don't really know each other,
but they seem like similar, high energy, optimistic guys. Awesome
spot for spy Tech to go to work with Pete,

(21:15):
who has decades of experience at the highest level. But
if I spy tech like I would think about trading them.
And you saw you saw Pete look at Max yesterday
and say Max, we're come and put out the word,
you know, because Pete's not gonna want to get rid
of Max Crosby. So it's going to be very interesting. Now.
There have been reports that the Raiders and Mark David

(21:36):
shot it down last year. I just think the right
thing for the franchise would be at least to entertain it.
I think if you're not entertaining it, you're not doing
your job because you're not even in the same universe,
even with a massive upgraded coach. From a roster standpoint,

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Speaker 1 (23:34):
The Aaron Glenn press conference was awesome. You just you
watch him for five minutes and you see why players
love him. Obviously, he was a great player, and he
told this awesome story about how a couple of years
after he retired and he played in the NFL for
like seventeen years, he was freaking out at the television
and his wife looked at him and said, you got

(23:56):
to become a coach. And he thought, oh my god, God,
that's the weight off, you know, the pressure off my shoulders.
I've always wanted to coach, but I felt obligated because
I played football for so long to be like a
stay at home dad slash a businessman. And so he
called Bill Parcells, a guy that he played for in
the league, and he said, coach, I'm ready to jump

(24:17):
in head first. And Bill said, before you coach, become
a scout. And Glenn's like, I don't want to become
a scout. And he's like, I'm telling you scout for
a couple of years before you start coaching. It'll help
you out immensely, especially as you move up the ranks.
And he hammered this home yesterday. He said, that's the
best piece of advice he ever got. I didn't even
realize that he worked as a scout for the Jets

(24:39):
in house and scouting college players. And when you look
at Aaron Glenn, his resume is I would say probably
unlike many people in the NFL head coaches GMS. He
played in the NFL, he scouted in the NFL, and
he's been an assistant coach, he's been a coordinator, and
now he's been a head coach. He's literally checked every

(25:00):
box you could possibly check in the league. Those shoes
are hard to fill. And I was thinking about, like,
you know, Colins said this, forever you learn someone's value,
not by how once they go to someone else, some
other company, start dating someone else, just change careers. What

(25:21):
they do in that new spot, what happens to the
spot they left? And Colin's a good example. He left
ESPN Radio. How's that thing going? It's completely irrelevant and
basically cratered since the moment he left. And I think
about this, like Maria was just gone for four days
at a bridle shower in California, Like the house becomes
a mess, door dash gets ordered twice a day. I

(25:43):
remember being a kid when my mom would go out
of town. It would be like me, my dad, and
my brother. It would just be a disaster. Because there
are certain people that keep it together. And I was
thinking it is harder to find a good defensive coordinator
than it is to find a good offensive coordinator. Why
because there are just more good offensive coaches out there

(26:03):
than there are good defensive coaches out there. Honestly, on
a given year, it feels like there's a very very
small number of good defensive coaches because as a great
offensive coach, I don't have to be a great leader.
I really don't. It's why when you hear some you
watch Ben Johnson or Liam Cohen give a press conference,
they don't inspire anything. Watch Aaron Glenn give a press conference.

(26:27):
He looks like he's leading the troops out to battle
and he's talking to the media, because that's how you
have to communicate with defensive players. And I just think, listen,
Kelvin Shepherd, who played in the NFL for a long time,
who just started coaching in twenty twenty one, is now
the Lions defensive coordinator. And I'm rooting for the guy.

(26:48):
Saw McAfee who played with him, loves him. People think
very highly of him. Clearly, Dan Campbell thinks highly of
this guy. And I remember on Hard Knocks he was impressive.
It's hard to fill the shoes of Aaron Glenn because
he was twofold. He's clearly really impressive with the group
and schematically he knows as shit. And you can't fake

(27:09):
thirty years of experience playing for all those different coaches,
then scouting and understanding personnel strengths and weaknesses to then
work your way up as an assistant dB coach to
become a dB coach, to then become a coordinator. And
I just look at the Lions like they just hired
Johnny Morton to be their offensive coordinator. It's gonna be

(27:29):
pretty hard. Maybe it won't be Ben Johnson, but they'll
be fine on offense. Why they're way too talented and
if anything, just run the similar plays that Ben Johnson ran.
Defense is a different animal. I've seen it with the
forty nine ers. They have run through coordinators because like, ah,
this just doesn't work, and a lot of it is
just the way you communicate, and it's why they went

(27:51):
back to the well with Robert Solis. So I'm watching
Aaron glend Those are tough tough shoes to fill. I
mentioned this earlier, but the Pro Bowl, I just think
that it's pretty sad that you know, the NFL and
I would put basketball here like their all Star Pro
Bowl Game is just it's a joke. And I think

(28:14):
this is definitely a product of once you start paying
guys thirty twenty fifty million dollars, how could I take
this seriously? You know, I remember being a kid and
hearing guys talk about it and how excited they were
to go to Hawaii and take their family on a vacation.
And it is like Dan Marino and Brett farre But
what were those guys making back? And then two, three,

(28:35):
four or five million dollars, which was a ton of
money relative to society, But you're still not turning down
a free trip to Hawaii. It was a really really
big deal when you make fifty million dollars. Hell, when
you sign a hundred million dollar contract, it's like, yeah,
I don't really feel like going to Miami or Vegas.
I'll just I take my own family to Cancun. I
just do not care the NBA All Star Game. They

(28:59):
could not care any less, like these guys put in
zero effort. Baseball is the only sport where they play
the All Star Game, and at least this looks like
a normal baseball game. But I would say football has
now paralleled basketball. The differences in basketball, they still show up.
I would imagine there are some financial reasons. In football,

(29:20):
half these guys Josh Allen will be playing at at
and T Pro Am. I would imagine this in a
couple days here in Pebble Beach, he does not go
to the Pro Bowl. He just will not go because
he wants to go play golf at Pebble Beach. Don't
blame him. I would too. That was not the case
twenty thirty years ago. And I understand you put whatever
the event is then playing flag football and still millions

(29:40):
of people will watch. But this thing, I mean to me,
it's no longer for me. I just do not care.
And I think it's showing by all these players like
declining invites and once you start like Russell Wilson's going
to the Pro Bowl, Drake may is going to the
Pro Bowl. Lose me and you lost me years ago,

(30:02):
like when Mac Jones was going to the Pro Bowl.
It's kind of sad. But there's as this business and
the money flow to the players keeps growing and growing
like it is now, this is only going to continue.
We're only in the beginning of this thing becoming the
NBA All Star Game, which is completely irrelevant. I just

(30:23):
visually remember hearing, you know, players talk about it clips
from there, like guys used to really enjoy it. That
is no longer the case. And last but not least,
sometimes whenever you see like so and so is staying
Cliff Kingsbury is gonna stay in Washington. That was a
report that I read today. Kingsbury stays in Washington. It's like, well,

(30:48):
would he have been the Saints head coach? Probably not,
But like, if you're Cliff, you have another year where
you're in the playoffs. I would imagine he will be
one of the top candidates next year, which I do
things a little crazy. I think two things can be true.
Cliff Kingsbury is perfect for Washington, is perfect for Jayden,
and is an awesome offensive coordinator. Is Cliff Kingsbury head coach?

(31:12):
And there's nothing wrong with not being a head coach.
Ask Spagnola or Vic Fangio. It pays three four five
million dollars to be a coordinator in this league. You know,
I'm watching Liam Cohen yesterday and I think I mentioned
this on yesterday's podcast. I'm not trying to make huge
reactions when when price conferences don't go bad. He does

(31:36):
come off a little weird, and part of being the
head coach is not just interacting with Baker Mayfield or
Will Levis. I mean Liam Cohen was an assistant wide
receiver coach five years ago. I mean, it's an epic
come up, epic come up, it's it's borderline insane. Beckwell,
he did a great job with Baker Mayfield this year.
Their offense was awesome last year as well. I mean,

(31:57):
Baker Mayfield coming into this year got one hundred million
dollar contract for a reason. But I'm not saying I
would rather have Cliff like Cliff the guy than Liam
Cohen the guy. I just don't think he's a head coach.
And then there's just nothing wrong with that. If you're Washington,
you're paying him a ton of money. It's a great spot.
You get to resurrect this iconic franchise and uh yeah,

(32:18):
props to him for just resurrecting his career. Okay, let's
do a little thing we like to call the Middlecoff
mail bag at John Middlecoff. At John Middlecoff is the

(32:40):
Instagram fire in those dms. Get your question answered here
on the show. Quick question for you as someone who
knows the Shanahan coaching tree. What's your take on Seattle
hiring Kubiak as their new OC. It feels like a
move that could bring some of the Shanahan style influence
to Seattle, which is intriguing. Do you think Kubiak has

(33:03):
what it takes to elevate Seattle's offense given the talent
they're gonna have on their roster. Also, would you ever
consider coming up with a name for like your fans
of the pod like I think Jim Rome used to
call it You're in the Jungle or Stoole's or something.
I mean, I'm not great at brand names at coming

(33:25):
up with them. So you got any ideas, hit me up.
I would say Kubiak, you know the Shanahan tree. He's
of the Mike Shanahan tree because his father, Gary was
like Mike Shanahan's first real protege, Right played for him
as a quarterback as a backup, then immediately transitioned as

(33:46):
his quarterback coach, offensive coordinator. He's got multiple sons. Clint
I think played football at Colorado State, but he was
a safety, not an offensive player. His coaching style, he's
transitioned to be a offensive guy because you know what
he knows, I'm sure growing up from his dad. I
would say that Mike McDonald aspires to do what they

(34:10):
did when Baltimore of running the ball, and I think
that was a knock on Ryan Grubb, who they fired,
who I haven't seen if he's already back at Alabama,
but that's where most people thought he would go is
run the football. And Kubiak. No coordinator in the NFL
started hotter than Kubiak because this year, through two games

(34:36):
with New Orleans, it looked like they were the greatest
show on turf and then they got a million injuries
and it fell apart. But he's gonna run the ball.
I had a buddy that was on that staff with
him in New Orleans and he said, this guy loves
running the ball, so get ready for that. Now that
almost all the coaching positions of field would love to
hear your opinion. What grade would you give each higher?

(35:00):
I would you got to give the Bears an A
because that's who they wanted, That's who all their fans wanted,
the number one coach on the market. They had to
get him. Jags, that thing seems like a shit show.
I know, He's had a good year in in Tampa,
but I'm giving that thing a C. It's like you

(35:21):
interviewed him and then you fired bulky and then you
had to give him twelve thirteen million dollars. He's kind
of a weird dude that I got that thing red
flagged jets. I'd go a minus. You know, b Plug,
I really like Aaron Glenn. I just like, did he
have a lot? Yeah? I guess New Orleans probably wanted
him a minus A. I think it's harder the difference,

(35:44):
like why I'd give the Bears an A and you
know Aaron Glenn. I view him both as really good candidates.
You know, it's harder. You know, Ben Johnson's gonna have
an immediate impact. Why he calls the place for Caleb
Williams and he's gonna do nothing on defense because that's
gonna be Dennis Allen's baby. It's very easy to see
the hierarchy there. He's gonna call plays, he's gonna try
to resurrect the offense, and Dennis Allen, who's a good

(36:06):
defensive coordinator. It's just easy to see how that operates.
Sometimes when you become the CEO head coach even though
Aaron glenn Is you watch his personality, he's set up
for that right to be like a hardball brother or Tomlin.
You know he's gonna be fine. But it's like, well,
who are your coordinators, who's calling the plays, who's your quarterback?
It's just more challenging that way. Raiders, I think you'd

(36:30):
have to give a pretty good grade because I mean,
you just get a real coach Patriots a Cowboys. I'll
give a B minus. I think everyone's given the Cowboys
an F like you can give Jerry and f and
their process and F. But I I don't know if
Brian Schottenheimer's gonna be that much different. Mike McCarthy. To
be honest with you, a lot of people keep asking me,

(36:53):
did I work with spy Tech with the Eagles? We
missed each other. He left the year that I showed up.
I've been watching the pod for a long time, but
haven't asked a mail back question. I'm curious to hear
your thoughts on the Bengals firing. Anna Rumo felt like
the move to divert the blame from Zach Taylor, who's
been disappointing from a game management and offensive creativity standpoint,

(37:16):
how long do you think he lasts? I know they're cheap,
similar to the Chargers pre Harbaugh, but the Chargers were
in a similar situation with Herbert and Staley, and just
last season they made a change. Did he buy himself
more time because of the success early in Burrow's career?
Thanks for reading my question. Major difference between him and
old Brandon, which I hope Robert Sala tosses out of

(37:39):
the building in San Francisco sooner or later. Zach Taylor
does call the offensive place. So like your most prized
possession Joe and your second Jamar Chase, the offense is
kind of his thing. Now. You can say he's an
overrated offensive play caller, and I think really nitpicking. Sometimes
his play calling in a situational standpoint could be a

(37:59):
little weird, just like past past, past, past past, But
like ultimately he does impact the quarterback. I do think
he is, you know, hot, we use that term, I
think a little too loosely. Everyone just throws it out
like he's on the hot seat. I think if Zach
Taylor they're not in the playoffs, he will not be
the coach of the Bengals next year. There are any

(38:21):
chance that Schottenheimer works. I mean, I assume there is,
however small it is, but how much credit would Jerry
get even at that point it was a best a
blind guess. Uh, there's a chance it works. Like why
can't Brian Schottenheimer just be solid and if they do
a good job. They've drafted well over the years, and

(38:41):
he just had his team stays healthy, they couldn't compete
to make the wild card next year. I believe that
that's a possibility. He is not like some urban Meyer
that had no clue how to operate in the NFL.
Doesn't seem like he's, you know, completely over his head
like some of these like Joe Judge or Patricia or

(39:02):
Tom Sula. People love that I keep dropping Tom Sula.
I was just there for the Tom Sula experience. And
if you were there for the Tom Suwella experience, it's
something you will never ever forget. He once farted in
a press conference. If you don't believe me, YouTube it,
and it was awesome. It was glorious. I think Balky
also farted in a press conference like in the last year,

(39:23):
which is perfect because they were together when they were
with the forty nine ers, Balky hired him, but he's
I just don't think he's gonna be that bad now.
I think if they just keep doing what they're doing,
maybe a ten win season, then maybe a seven win season,
people are just gonna freak out and blame Jerry. Now,
if it does work and he's just good, let's just

(39:43):
say he's a good head coach, and we'll see who
is defensive coordinator? Oh, they hired ebra Flus, who's good
defensive coordinator? Right, It's like some of these guys you
just saw this cycle, right, Eberflus fired, saw the fire.
Dennis Allen fired all those guys. Immediate hires his defensive
cord good defensive coordinators, no brainer hires like all of

(40:03):
them making a lot of money as defensive coordinators. They're
just not good head coaches. So it's like, you get
a defensive coordinator. Now, you know Jerry loved Like why
did he rehire ebra Flues or why did he hire
ebra Flues or shot him? Like ebra Flues had worked there,
so it's like they knew him. Jerry loves doing that shit,
like guys, he knows and I'm with you. If they win,

(40:24):
Let's say they won a super Bowl. Let's just say
in some world, the Cowboys in two years win the
Super Bowl. Jerry, You're right, Like Jerry, if you were
really believed what you were selling yesterday at the press commerce,
you would not have released the uh you know, the
news that you hired this guy Friday night at nine

(40:48):
o'clock Dallas time. And you can't tell me that you're
just well, this is gonna be the fan reaction. No,
you knew everyone would shit on the move. And like
I just I'm with you. I don't think Jerry gets
that much credit, even though he would take it all, literally,
all of it over Shotenneimer Shottenneimer could have an undefeated season,

(41:10):
the Cowboys could win every game and win the Super Bowl,
Dak could win the MVP. Jerry would take the credit.
I do kind of like Jerry. I just find him entertaining.
My question for the mailbag is this, do you feel
like Lamar Jackson would have a better chance at winning
a Super Bowl with another team? I know the Ravens
are a stable organization, but I can't help but wonder

(41:30):
if you played for the forty nine ers, you'd have
a ring your thoughts the forty nine ers have been
to Super Bowl twice and they've played the Chiefs and
they lost both games. Lamar Jackson hosted the NFC Championship
team or AFC Championship last year, a team that the
forty nine Ers we win the Super Bowl. The Ravens
played the Niners on Christmas in twenty twenty three and

(41:55):
beat the breaks off them, kicked their ass. I forget
the final score, but the final score was not as
close to the actual game because the Niners got some
got some garbage points. Let me just look up the
score thirty three to nineteen, and the forty nine Ers
scored in the fourth quarter seven points, so it was

(42:18):
thirty three to twelve going into the fourth quarter. He
had the number one seed, the best defense in the league.
So no, I I the Ravens is as good of
a spot as you can have. He has a great defense.
He has Derrick Henry now Mark Andrews, who usually can catch.

(42:39):
I've been watching closely on how the ratings for the
NBA are at a low point, but the NFL are
at an all time high. I was curious if you
recall a time when the NFL seemed to have a
popularity issue. I don't think it would ever be low
when you consider the Super Bowl and the urgency of
each game. But I started following football closely in seven eight,

(43:00):
but wondered how the NFL's popularity looked like in the
two thousands when we got Ravens, Giants, Super Bowl and
Bucks Raiders. I would say the NFL became much more
popular over time in the Internet era, and I think
a huge reason for that was the dominance of Tom

(43:21):
Brady and Peyton Manning. Those two guys were Magic Johnson
and Larry Bird what they meant to the NBA, and
then Tom Brady kept parlaying that into one of this
twenty year dynasty with a team that more people hated
than liked, and that just drew everyone's emotion. So I
think the explosion of those two guys and then handing

(43:45):
it off to you know, guys like Aaron Rodgers, you know,
Russell Wilson became a superstar for a couple of years,
and then obviously the crew of guys we have now.
So I think the NFL has always been driven by
its star quarterbacks, at least in my lifetime. You know,
I was born in to Lway, Montana. Marino through Troy Aigman,
Steve Young, Brett Favre, kind of that crew into Brady

(44:07):
and Manning and Roethlisberger. I mean, there's a ton of guys, right,
but Drew Brees, You're only as strong as your quarterbacks.
And I think the NFL, we talked about it earlier
on the pod, that the urgency, it's not just the urgency,
it's it's easy to consume. It's once a week. Like
I feel very lucky that this just I ended up

(44:29):
working in football, because when I was early on in college,
I would have worked in any of these sports, right
if they would have had me. I liked football the most.
But if I could have got into baseball, I don't
know if I would have lasted because I would have
got bored. But I did my career. If someone would
have hired me on a professional baseball team, I would
have done that. And I think I feel very fortunate

(44:51):
that I don't have to watch a baseball game every night.
How I did this in radio watch a basketball game
every night. I can't even imagine doing that, right, And
when you do local radio, you don't really have a choice,
like I don't. I don't watch any of those sports one,
I don't even feel like they matter, definitely to me
and obviously to the consumer. Here in football, it's like

(45:11):
it's a grind during the season, but it's Monday night,
it's Sunday night, it's Thursday night. And that's kind of it.
Like there's no game on Tuesday, there's no game on
on Wednesday, there's no game on on Friday. There's college
games and Saturday watch college. But it's it's just if
you're a diehard Bengal fan or diehard Penn State fan,
it's just it's so easy to consume, you know, for

(45:32):
three hours once a week. The day might change, you know,
in the NFL, could be a Thursday night or could
be a Monday night. In college, I would say ninety
nine percent of your games are gonna be on Saturday,
but every once in a while you might get like
a Friday night game, not counting the playoffs, and it's
just an easy sport to follow, and right or wrong,

(45:53):
we've never been more splintered when it comes to our attention.
Even though I feel like the content on television has,
it's never really been worse that the show with Tim Riggins.
I think I talked about this recently where he's like,
I wouldn't call it quite Cowboys and Indians. It's you know,
it's about I think the late eighteen hundreds, early nineteen hundreds,

(46:16):
maybe the mid eighteen hundreds with Brigham Young, and it
was just it was like john Wick meets meets a Western.
It was it was e lea six shows, you know,
as a series on Netflix. But I feel for every
one of those, there are ninety misses. I actually don't
feel the content on these streaming services are that great,

(46:38):
and it's pretty rare now. You know. Every once in
a while you get like a Game of Thrones, which
I didn't really like. But I'm not that into like
sci fi stuff though. I watch because I like violence
and sex. So it's like if you tell me you're
gonna give me, even if you are gonna have dragons,
like yeah, a lot of people die and a lot
of nudity, It's like, yeah, I'll watch. But I don't
feel like there are that many shows that like every

(46:58):
single human's watching, you know, and football is the one
I think we all agree on now we might not
like I try to watch most games, right, I mean,
as the season goes on, like you don't have to
watch Jags Giants, but you know, I got multiple TVs
with four boxes and TV and computer screens. But everyone,

(47:19):
more than likely if you're listening to podcast, has a team,
And if you're not watching the red zone like you
watch your team's game, you could be a big baseball fan,
like miss a week of baseball and it just doesn't matter.
Like it's pretty hard to miss a game of football,
and no one wants to do that. I saw an
interesting graphic the last twenty five NFC and AFC championships.

(47:40):
The AFC has obviously been dominated by Manning, Big Ben
and Brady and now Patty Mahomes. The NFC has been
nothing but parody. However, despite having great quarterbacks like Breeze, Rogers,
to a lesser extent, Russell, Wilson, Eli and Matt Ryant,
why do you think none of those quarterbacks were able
to dominate the NFC in the same way Patty, Tom

(48:01):
and Peyton were able to dominate the AFC. Well, the
only one you listed in the NFC who is remotely
as good as those other three guys is Aaron Rodgers.
And I'm pretty sure Aaron Rodgers went to five championship games,
which is pretty good. I think looking back on Aaron Rodgers' career,

(48:22):
I think if you played it, Bill Simmons plays his game. Sometimes,
if you just played his career ten times, you could argue,
I guess he could potentially have a worst career. He
could never have won a super Bowl like Dan Marino.
But I think seven out of the ten times, if
we just ran a simulation, Aaron Rodgers makes it to
like three or four super Bowls, even if he loses

(48:44):
some of them, like he's in more super Bowls. I
think it's pretty crazy looking back at Aaron Rodgers career
that he only made it to one super Bowl. I
think it's pretty crazy, right, Like he's dramatically better than
Russell Wilson, you know it, Eli Manning. They just got
hot at the right time for whatever reason. Rogers being
these awesome teams, and his teams just wouldn't get hot
in the playoffs and they would just lose these devastating

(49:07):
games Tampa, the one year to Brady, a couple times,
the forty nine ers. Obviously the Seattle game that they
lost was that game in Seattle. So I just think
that you could argue that Patrick Mahomes. You know, Peyton
Manning is better than Rodgers and Tom Brady, like Patrick

(49:28):
and Brady, had Belichick and had Andy Reid. I think
if you put Aaron Rodgers with one of those two guys,
I think he has more Super Bowls. I mean shit,
Jalen's been to two. Jalen's been is gonna start more
Super Bowls than Aaron Rodgers. Jalen hurts, YEA, how crazy
that is. Russell Wilson started more Super Bowls than Aaron
Rodgers Eli Manning did. It's pretty insane that that he

(49:53):
only went to one. It's pretty crazy Giants fan here.
I don't understand how we just give away three players McKinnie,
Barkley and Daniel Jones and didn't get back one single
draft pick. I understand their contracts were out, but couldn't
they have signed them to a contract and then immediately
traded them. We have a tendency to do this, and
it pisces me. Off side note, Spags was our defensive

(50:14):
coordinator when we won the Super Bowl in O seven,
one of the few stop to stop Tom Brady. Dude,
his legend true. He really is. The Daniel Jones thing
is like whatever that was just all time disaster scenario.
Right has career year. I think he's like, what do
you throw fifteen touchdowns? And he gets the eighty million

(50:36):
dollar contract, and that's just obviously an immediate regret. You know,
McKinney clearly just didn't vibe with the coaching staff. You
know better than me. I mean, I'm sure there have
been articles written like they just they didn't think he fit.
I mean, they drafted a safety relatively high right in
the draft. You know, the Saquon thing's well documented. In

(50:56):
fairness to them, you know, Saquon just for the money
doesn't make sense. When your offensive line sucks and your
offense sucks, I think that's just a win win. What
are your thoughts in the University of Utah? Diehard Utes fan,
but frustrated with Cam Rising and head coach Kyle Whittingham
no sense of direction. We were projected to win the
Big twelve last season, but we're an embarrassment. Your guys,

(51:19):
relationship with Cam Rising has been we all have this
friend who's like had this on and off, whether it's
like a wife that feels like they've been divorced five
times or a girlfriend that somehow they've been dating for seven, eight,
ten years, but it's like, why aren't they married? Do
they even like each other? But it's a weird relationship,
and the Cam Rising thing should probably should have ended

(51:40):
a couple of years ago, and this year they went
all in on him and he got hurt early. I
was actually watching the game when he got shoved I think,
into the bench and hurt his hand. And then you
had to go to to Zach Wilson's brother. You guys,
quarterback play is just I don't understand how this team

(52:02):
can't just find some just solid quarterbacks. You have an
elite defense, you always have good running backs, but your
quarterback play subtract Cam Rising. It just sucks. It feels
like it's been that way for a while. I'm not
asking for Alex Smith number one overall pick, but Utah,
you'd feel like, yeah, they just got a couple guys
that were just drafted back to back times in like

(52:23):
the sixth round, but just doesn't happen. Keep it the
great work. I wanted to pose this to you for
the mailbag. My wife is a school teacher and I
work in compliance for a financial institution. We don't make
an abnormal amount of money, and I'd say we're about
middle class. As middle class comes, that's not a bad
thing in my book. I agree. I want to eventually

(52:46):
invest some of our money, but I'm not sure where
to start. I was wondering if you have any advice
or guidance about how to go about this. I don't
necessarily need examples of what to invest with, but more so,
how I judge what a good investment would be. I mean,
I feel that I'm not quite comfortable answering this for you.

(53:07):
You know, every investment. I think we all look at
money and look at investments much differently because we have
different risk tolerances. There are probably some people if they
looked at my stock allocation or what. I guess that's
the majority. It's not like. I mean, I have a
house I live in and Maria has another house that
we rent out, but I say we now because we're

(53:30):
about to get married. I had nothing to do with it.
But you know, my risk tolerance for investing in stocks
is I would say one to ten, one being not
risk at all, ten being some people would call you
fucking nut job, much closer to ten than it is one.
Just like there are some people that you know would

(53:51):
be like, yeah, that's the way I like to invest.
And then there are other people that you know just
play it slow and steady in the slow lanth. So
I think it is so dependent whether you are going
to invest one hundred dollars, one hundred grand, or one
hundred million dollars. It's very dependent on who you are. Obviously,
if you have one hundred million dollars, there will just
be a way. I mean, you're gonna take a large
portion and just play it safe, right, But when you're

(54:13):
talking about like money that you're going to invest that
you need either for retirement or potentially to use on
a down payment, you need to talk to financial advisors
because this is not something that like I don't want
to say a gut feel. I mean, I've been messing
with the market for probably give or take a decade,

(54:35):
but like you know, what I do is not for you.
I don't really I don't have a financial advisor. I know,
we got a couple of people that listen that are
constantly blowing me up to try to get my business.
I just enjoy doing it now as I have children
as my risk tolerance, I'm sure potentially changes like I'm
just I'm a risk taker, so I don't know. Obviously,

(54:58):
there has to come a lot, you know, if you
know your children's tuition to go to college. Even though
I'd say, hey, you know, college isn't necessary, I just
struggle to give you advice on something that is so personal.
You know, it's it's very very personal. I would say
it's more personal than like, hey, should I should I buy?
Or rent? Right? Should I should I ask her to

(55:20):
marry me? Like I feel comfortable out answering those questions
like how should I invest? I think that's really really
up to you. The one advice I would have though,
invest money. Invest money, even if it's in the very
very basic stuff right which most people just call the
S and P five hundred. I think you're crazy. You know.
One of my biggest regrets is not starting this right

(55:42):
when I left college held to it in college. You know,
I started when I was thirty, give or take. I
lost years of earning potential, even if it wouldn't have
been a lot of money being put in there. The
faster you can invest, the quicker, I would do it,

(56:12):
big fan, and I enjoy listening to you talk about
your experience moving out of California. I recently moved my
family from Santa Rosa, California. It's kind of for those
of you non Californians, think Napa, think above San Francisco area.
It's beautiful, but it's insanely expensive. Now we can't afford

(56:33):
to have way more space with way less people, and
it's awesome. I agree with you that Nevada and Arizona
are booming states and growing economies the way people talked
about Oregon and Washington, Texas twenty plus years ago. My
question for you is, as much as we love hearing
your football takes, do you think you would ever want
to talk more about politics, government, or geography type topics.

(56:56):
I really enjoy listening to you and Colin talk about
the Paradise fires after it happened. If you wanted to
go that route, I'd be all yours. I would never
say never, I would say right now. I just you know,
sometimes when you talk about politics, it just becomes it's

(57:17):
not even like the polarizing you talk about football. People
get pissed off at things you say. It does for
me strike more of like an anger emotion. And it's
one of the reasons that when I moved to Arizona.
I just I kept getting so mad at myself for
being angry over things that I could not control. So

(57:38):
I removed myself from the situation of like, why are
you just gonna get mad at what is? And this
was during twenty and twenty one in California, Like why
are you getting so mad at these things that nothing
you can do can change any of it? Right? And
I just I remember that feeling. And sometimes, you know,
and I enjoy talking politics with my friends, and I

(57:58):
enjoy falling on the internet and stuff that's going on.
But I do think there is more enjoyment talking about
sports now. I would say one big picture thing is,
you know, in this profession, there's more money talking about politics,
that's for sure, and for a reason. I mean, there's
more just more anger. I mean there's just Maria was

(58:20):
I was involved in a sale of someone that's in
the political sphere. And there's NBA's being you know, given
out to protect people and rightfully so, because stuff gets out,
you just put your family at harm. It's kind of crazy. Yeah,
I'm forty years old. We've been in this space now

(58:40):
for a decade, and we'll just see how life goes.
But right now we'll talk to some Tua. What should
the Miami Dolphins do with Tua now that he is
under contract? And where does Tyreek Hill go now when
he essentially gave up on the team. Yes, you know
there's that question. Is the equivalent of like middlecuff, what

(59:04):
should happen to social Security? You know, it's it's like
it's much easier to get like that's a bad question
for me because I don't even know where the fuck
I couldn't tell you more than a paragraph about social Security.
But when it comes to Tula, like, it's an easy
question for me to answer. I think you just try
to get out of that thing as quickly as possible,
because if he's your quarterback, you got no chance. The

(59:27):
thing with the AFC, man, it is a different animal.
Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, C. J. Stroud, Justin Herbert.
I'm not putting bo Nicks in their class, but like
him er Sean Payton, like that thing's gonna work. It's
just it's just difficult, you know, it really is. The
The AFC is no joke. I don't know what else

(59:49):
to say besides like, I just don't take Miami that seriously,
you know, I really don't, and no one wants like
the two of stuff with him getting hurt. That's just
that last was it? This? Yeah? It was this year
Thursday night playing the Bills? Was that like Week two?
Was that Week three when he got hit? That was

(01:00:09):
I would say one of the low moments of the
NFL And just that whole conversation around that, and even
I saw Sabin. I saw a clip on Instagram. He
went on the Pivot podcast and Shannon Crowder told a
pretty funny story about Saban. But also like Saban, he
was asked like, who are your favorite players in Alabama?

(01:00:29):
And he listed like five guys, like he didn't list
that many, and two of them obviously like Julio Jones,
who are your favorite players to coach? One thing I
respect a shipload about Tua. It feels Saban's favorite quarterback
that he coached for seventeen years in Alabama is Tua.
He loved that guy. Love that guy. Love Bryce Young too.

(01:00:52):
And I think two was a high level cat Like
I like two of the guy. I just he's not
really my cup of tea as a player, weak arm,
can't really move, small a couple more questions. Coach Carrol's
press conference, he made lots of mentions of the Raiders
ownership group, Wagner, Durbin, Michael Meldon, and of course Brady.

(01:01:13):
What are your thoughts on the organizational shift within the Raiders.
I mean, I think those guys are like venture capitalists,
like money guys that came in with Tom. I know
nothing about any of those individuals. Besides, I'm sure they're
really really rich. I'd say it can't it can only
get better, because it can't get any worse. Right, what

(01:01:34):
do you do when you find yourself in a hole.
It's John Baxter once told me, especially the teams coach
dropped the shovel. And I think that's where the Raiders, like,
we just need And I give Mark credit. The Tom
Brady thing was his idea. This was not one of
those league forced Tom Brady. Like he went out and
you know, like he went seeking a guy. And he

(01:01:57):
even said it yesterday in the press conference, like I
gave it to John Gruden ten years run football. I
don't know how to run football. I'm not my dad.
I'm not a quote unquote football guy. I love football,
but like I want you to do it, and then
Dan Snyder leaked all the emails. That was what someone
told me recently that Dan Snyder was behind it now
Roger Goodell. But I don't know if that person was right,

(01:02:19):
but it would make sense. And obviously Mark still to
this day is not happy about that situation. But once
Gruden disappears, he's got to find somebody and he goes
with Tom Brady and now you just got to leave
Tom Brady spy tech Pete Carroll. Hopefully they can run
the organization. I don't know what those other guys like
that we had when I worked for the Eagles, Like
on Draft day there were my I think they've I

(01:02:41):
think Jeffrey Lowry's added minority owner since but like when
you're a minority owner, you don't really do anything besides
you get some seats at a game in a box,
you get to come to the draft day, but you
don't like talk to Andy Reid what to do, like
give influence on when he needs a viruses and it's
like there's one guy and ultimately that guy is still

(01:03:02):
Mark Davis. So like if he's not happy, was like
those other guys like only have so much pull on
the organizational chart. Like you look at Facebook, Mark Zuckerberg
runs that bitch. You know, Mark Zuckerberg wants something to happen,
It happens, and that's the way these NFL teams work.
So even Tom Brady, now, Mark is is I think

(01:03:25):
an easy owner to deal with because he will He's
like telling these guys, like you pick who to hire,
I'll get behind it and he'll let them influence. But ultimately,
if Mark doesn't like something, he is the guy on
the piece of paper. We talked about this a lot
with gms and coaches, like who's the decision maker? There's
only one decision maker in every team, right, so you
can have a million of these like this firm, these

(01:03:46):
three guys, Brady, if Mark Davis wanted to fire Pete
Carroll tomorrow, he could. Those guys could not a big fan.
I check your takes often. Who do you think, talent
wise is the best quarterback ever? Goat Brady Mahomes. But
as a pure passer of the football, I go Marino
or Rogers? What say you yeah? I would say I didn't.

(01:04:13):
This has always been just a life philosophy. It's hard
for me to argue about like Jack Nicholas against Tiger Woods.
It's like, well, I never watched Jack play, right, Dan
Marino versus Aaron Rodgers, Well, you know, I watched Dan
Reno play when he was really old. So it's like
when you watch guys in their prime. I feel comfortable
talking about you name any player of the last thirty

(01:04:35):
years because I watched them. It's hard for me, like,
what's your take on me and Joe Green? What did
you think about Bill Walton in his prime? I don't know.
I mean, I can YouTube, but it's not the same.
It's like you turn on television night and you watch
Joe Kitch on Denver. You're like, holy shit, this guy's
Steph Curry or you know Juan Soto. It's like show

(01:04:58):
Hayo to remember show Hao Tani. How does Shoeyotanic compared
to Mickey Mantle? So I don't know. I never saw
Mickey Mantle. Beside. My dad actually went to lunch one time,
I think in like the eighties in Vegas with some
business people like he's a farmer, some other farmers at
a casino and Mickey Mantle was there, and he always
gave a story that Mickey Mantle had like five cocktails

(01:05:19):
down before the appetizers. Mickey Mantle could drink, which you know,
if you were my dad's era, like growing up in
the sixties or seventies, Mickey Mantle like fucking God. But
I think everyone in the NFL used to say Marino.
I would say the guy that I saw the best
passer of the football for the last twenty thirty years,
Rogers in his peak, was as good as it gets.

(01:05:42):
I heard you the other day said Spags would never
be a Hall of Fame, would never be in the
Hall of Fame. Who do you think the best defensive
coach of all time? Here's my rank in order from
eighties till now. I know there's others, but would you
agree or disagree? Belichick, Buddy Ryan, Marvin Lewis, Spags, Lebau,
Wade Phillips, Monte Kiffin, Jim Johnson. I would put Belichick.

(01:06:08):
You know, I think you got to remove Belichick. I
think if you do head coaches who were defensive gurus,
it's a little harder if you just look at it
when they were defensive coordinators. Marvin Lewis for the Ravens,
Belichick for the Giants, Buddy Ryan for the Bears, Spags
for this Chiefs team, lebou for the Steelers, Monte Kiffin

(01:06:31):
for the Tampa Jim Johnson for the Eagles. That's prett
damn good group. Pretty hard to beat that, I would say.
Belichick confides that he thinks, and again, this is a
head coach, but and he became a head coach really,
you know, he was a defensive coordinator that long. But
Belichick believes that Saban is one of the one of,

(01:06:52):
if not the greatest defensive mind ever. And the way
his coverages of like pattern matching, it's like really geeky
football stuff. But like the shit he was doing in
college with the athletes, I mean, it ain't random. They
were kicking everyone's ass. Just listening to your taken in
Belichick and Reid's coaching tree, I do agree with you

(01:07:14):
that Belichick's coaching tree doesn't hold a candle to Andy's.
But I was thinking in the Reed and Mahomes era
other than Naggy limited success Trubisky to the playoffs is
a feat but ultimately fired. There hasn't been any coaches
or coordinators that have been mentioned in the coaching circles
or searches. I am curious what your thoughts are about that.

(01:07:35):
The only one that comes to mind is Ben of me,
and I can't think of anyone else. Huge fan of
the pot, I would say, uh yeah, Naggy. You know,
Doug left during the Alex Smith era. He started a
Kansas City with Andy, went to the Eagles, won a
Super Bowl. Like you said, Naggi made the playoffs twice.
Mike Kafka, I think, was an up and coming star,

(01:07:57):
left as a quarterback coach under Naggy and the Enemy
and went to the Giants a couple of years ago
with day Ball. I think pretty highly of Mike Kafka.
I think one thing that changes the Chiefs dramatically is,
you know a lot of years if you coach for
Naggie or for Andy. Think of the guys that got
hired Ron rivera defensive guy, Spags defensive guy, Jim Harbaugh

(01:08:19):
defense or John harbaught special teams defense right, and now Spags.
But Spag is like, no one's gonna hire him, so
like his most valuable asset is just not going to
get hired, which is kind of crazy, but that's just
the truth. So like, would anyone give Naggy another shot?

(01:08:39):
I mean, well, how old is Matt Naggy forty five
years old? I think there's a very decent chance Mattnaggy's
a coach again, maybe a little older than that forty six. Okay,
last one, a question for the mail bag. The narrative
all year has been that the NFL refs and or
Vegas are rigging it for the Chiefs. I think that

(01:09:00):
narrative really picked up steam last month. I don't know
if it's all year, but maybe right. I guess there
have been some weird games. In that case, why don't
all the non Chiefs fans bet on the Chiefs money line?
They're seventeen and one, not counting the Broncos loss, and
Mahomes has won eighty percent of his games of his career.
I saw staff that sixty seven percent of the public

(01:09:21):
bet Buffalo to win the championship game, which implies that
the NFL and sportsbook rig it for Kansas City. Curious
to hear your thoughts, I think you have to be
very careful, and let's use an example. I see this
media do this a lot sometimes, people on podcasts. There's
a lot of conversation out there about and really that's

(01:09:42):
coming from the comments of a video that was posted, like,
is there a lot of conversation about so and so
or is it? Just like if I look in the
comments of a post about whatever, you could find the
conversation about that, And I think that happens all the time.
I could literally find an angle on any story in America.

(01:10:05):
You name the story, pick a topic, the housing market,
the Chiefs, trump, South Dakota, you name it, and I
could type it in and type in an Instagram or
Twitter post about that subject and react to the comments
and be like, you know what people are saying about

(01:10:26):
the water rights in South Dakota. They believe it's a
con job, just because two people had mentioned that on
fifteen responses to a tweet or an Instagram post. So like,
I think when everyone goes the game, I think that
was it kind of gain scene by a couple of people,

(01:10:47):
and then Chefter put out some stats and it just scarred,
growing and growing and growing. Now, the reason you don't
bet the Chief's money line because a lot of their
games they're seven to ten point favorites. So it's like
you're gonna bet one hundred bucks for a thousand bucks
to win. I don't know thirty forty percent of your money.
It's not rigged, of course, it's not like it's just

(01:11:11):
it's just not I don't really know what else to say,
but I hear you. I think that. I think one
of the easiest things for people to do is now
react to the reaction. And if you listen to this pod,
you know, we kind of avoid that. Sometimes that kind
of bores me, like I don't give a fuck, you

(01:11:32):
know what the reaction was. To the reaction, It's like,
and I think a lot of people in this space
it's like, you guys got no shot. It's just not
that entertaining. Now, if a story's big enough, listen, I'm
not talking about this chief's rig story, like that's that
became a legitimate story people are talking about. But I
think sometimes it's like people talk about stories that if

(01:11:55):
you're just online a lot, and let's face it, a
lot of people in the media spend a majority of
their time I'm online specifically, like on Twitter, that you
can think something's a lot bigger than it is. It's like,
it's not actually that interesting. And if you just I
always do this test, like walk into a store right now,
or just walk around a bunch of people. Help go
to a golf course, go to the driving range and

(01:12:17):
just walk up to some people and they would not
even know what you're talking about. Like right now, there
was that ben Benjamin Slowick Solak, one of Bill Simmons
little minions. I guess put some tweet out. I don't guess.
I mean I saw the tweet because a bunch of
people were talking about it online that like Josh Allen

(01:12:39):
fucked up on the final play. He should have thrown
the wheel route to Khalil Shakir in the flat even
though he was under siege. Before he could even blink.
All these quarterbacks like Ryan Fitzpatrick are calling him like, bri,
what are you talking about? He had no time to
turn around. And it's like, I just think a lot
of people would think, like that's a really big story.
Like if I just did that poll right now, went

(01:13:01):
to the golf course, went to TPC Scottsdale right now,
or a bunch of dudes are there, I'm sure playing
golf and I just asked them, like, what's your take
on Benjamin slow Soulak saying that Josh Allen screwed up
on that final They'd be like what what are you
talking about? I don't know what you're talking about, So
I think we got to be I tried to be
very cognizant of that when we're gonna talk do a podcast,

(01:13:24):
because that bores me, and if it bores me, then
I think it bores you. And if I'm bored, then
it's just not gonna be a good show. Cal end
on this. Thoughts on the Texans oc opening. I'm unsure
the best candidates are and I think they need to
go with someone proven. Since Dimiko is a defensive guy.
I'm skeptical about Doug or Chip Kelly. But if it
worked and has potential of being a long tenure like

(01:13:44):
Spag situation, this is a critical hire if the Texans
plan on doing something special. Is Chip Kelly being discussed
as Dimiko's offensive coordinator? I I haven't that's one. But
this is a real story. But I have not seen
like a list of I haven't even seen him as
he interviewed anybody. Yeah, I don't know. Obviously he played

(01:14:09):
for those two guys. I don't know if he technically
played for Doug, but Doug was on the staff when
Andy traded for him. I the Chip Kelly thing. I
know it works when you got Jeremiah Smith, you got
all those talented wide receiver, the two running backs. I
just I would be very, very hesitant doing that. You

(01:14:30):
think you're beating the Ravens, you think you're beating Sean McDermott,
you think you're beating Spags. With Chip Kelly's droppinsive coordinator
in the National Football League. I know he gets to
stack the deck at Ohio State, but I would not
do that. You know, Doug, Doug's a great guy, dynamic
play caller. I would say some people would question that

(01:14:52):
at this time. Being again, I like Doug, I don't
really know who your options are. Okay, one on one,
if Jalen hurts and the Eagles win the Super Bowl,
can we officially say that we found the Eli Manning
to Tom Brady and the Mahome story. I mean, the
comps of the two are so similar. All time historic
quarterback in his prime that wins Super Bowls bested by

(01:15:14):
a quarterback that wasn't universally recognized as top tier. Yeah,
I think it depends. I think part of the Eli
story was he made some of the craziest plays in
those two Super Bowls. You know, the throat to Manningham
down the sideline, obviously, the David Tyree. He just made
so many big plays in their Super Bowl runs. I

(01:15:35):
guess Jalen definitely this year in that championship game, feels
like it was harder for Eli to get there, you
know what I mean in Jalen's two. And I'm not
trying to take away anything from Jalen. I respect him
that that performance the other night was awesome. But Eli
to get to the Super Bowl. The one game he
had to play Green Bay where everyone like froze their
feet off. Then he had to beat the forty nine

(01:15:57):
ers on the road against the top defense of Vick
Fangio in just a bloodbath game in the rain. And
I forget who he played in eleven in the championship.
I know he played the Cowboys, he played the he
played the Packers. I forget who they beat to get there.
But that was really impressive. I would say, yeah, I mean,
I listen, you, you're a Super Bowl winner. That changes

(01:16:20):
your life, changes your life. There's a lot on the
line for the Chiefs in this game in terms of
just historical data points, like trying to approach like legendary status.
But if they were to lose in any dan of
the world, right, they already got three of them things,

(01:16:41):
all right, This would Nick Sirianni and Jalen Hurts would
be super Bowl champions. And like you said, you know,
looking back, like Eli Manning was, I think there'll probably
be some similarities there with Jalen I think it'd be crazy.
Like Tom Coffin, clearly good coach. Nick Sirianni is a
super Bowl champion, Like we have had some questionable quarterbacks

(01:17:02):
win it over the years. Definitely, when you know, if
you're my age, when we were like growing up, like
after the John l Way, Troy Aikman, Steve Young era,
Brett farr it then went, you know, Trent Dilfer one one,
Brad Johnson won one. I mean these guys were NFL players,
longtime starters, but not exactly Brady Manning and Drew Brees
and Aaron Rodgers. Right, But I would say most of

(01:17:25):
the coaches, you know John Gruden, yeah, Brian Billick somewhat
of an outlier coach, but there's a lot of Bill Belichick's,
Andy Reid's, you know, Bruce Arians, Mike Tomlin, John Harbaugh,
Nick Sirianni is going to be on that list with
like Jimmy Johnson, Mike Holmgren, Bill Wallas, George Seaffert, Mike Didka,

(01:17:49):
Joe Gibbs, Bill Parcells, Nick Sirianni, and the Eagles would
kind of have two of them, Doug and Nick. Now Doug,
I mean, Doug's a football guy, played in the NFL
for a long time, back up far backed up Marino.
He's played in the league for a long time. Sirianni.
Let's face it, before he got the job with the Eagles,

(01:18:09):
most people had never heard of him. Listen, there's a
lot of people in the NFL who are good that
you've never heard of. I think if the Eagles win it,
it'd be much crazier that Sirianni is a Super Bowl
champ than Jalen. It would also put Howie Roseman in
the Hall of Fame. He would be a general manager
of two different teams that won Super Bowls with different
coaches and different quarterbacks. I didn't do the research, but

(01:18:31):
I just thought about it the other day. The only
guy that came to mind was Ozzie Newsom, who was
the GM with Billock and Dilfer and then was the
GM with Harbaugh and Flacco. Howie, if he wins, would
be the GM with Foles and Doug and then the
GM with Sirianni and Jalen. Maybe I'm missing someone, but

(01:18:53):
I don't know. That'd be pretty nuts. Audios, everybody, have
a great day. The volume

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