Best of The Herd

JMac steps in for Colin reacting to a blockbuster NBA trade sending Luka Doncic to the Lakers and Anthony Davis to the Mavericks. NBA reporter Rachel Nichols joins the show to talk about how Dallas arrived at the decision to trade the 25-year-old superstar Doncic. Plus, 3-time Pro Bowler Matt Hasselbeck joins the show to look at Super Bowl LIX between the Chiefs and the Eagles

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
noon Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at
Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every
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or FSR.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowver
on Fox Sports Radio.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
All right, we're back here on the Herd. They had
to go to the bullpen. Colin not feeling great. Big
weekend in Chicago. He's back and he's just chilling out
right now in his dressing room. Hopefully back tomorrow. So
I'll step in now and take the baton regarding this
holy cow Lakers trade. Yes, we will get to Miles Garrett,
who about thirty minutes ago demanded a trade out of Cleveland.

(00:49):
We'll get to that. A lot of stuff happening super
Bowl week here, very excited. I had a hot take
that I'll fire off here regarding the MAVs and the
Lakers trade that shook the NBA world over the weekend,
and it was operating out of a place of fear.
Is the worst place to operate out of and I
feel like that's what the Dallas Mavericks did here. Okay,

(01:11):
they were afraid of giving Luca the super Max contract
three hundred and forty five million dollars. They were afraid
because of why, Because this conditioning. The guy's always out
of shape. Luca shows up. There were reports he was
playing close to two hundred and sixty pounds this season
before the capstrain fear. They were worried that Luca would

(01:31):
never really get his act together off the court. You
guys have seen the video from the NBA playoffs this
year or this past season where Luca was celebrating with
a beer, an adult beverage after the game, celebrating a
big victory, and Michael Finley, the assistant GM, just rolled
up and casually, here it is on the screen and
off this one casually just grabbed the beer from Luca. Luca,

(01:52):
that's his father, I believe, in the black shirt. And
look at Luca's face. He's just like wait, wait what
But they're in a good who they're excited, Hey, we
just want Luca just brushed it off. But you could
tell from that video it felt like the beginning of
the end. I believe that was May thirty first of
last year, and again, the Mavericks were just simply worried.
They were concerned that Luka Doncic would never be that

(02:15):
physical specimen, the guy who was working out twenty four
to seven like Lebron. You guys have seen the videos
on his Instagram, and they decided, let's just get him
out of town.

Speaker 4 (02:25):
Now.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
Obviously there's a mini revolt among MAVs fans right now,
but Dallas, I'm not going to totally poop poo the
trade from their end. Yes, I saw multiple people grading
the trade. Lakers got an A. Obviously, you got a
generational talent, you get an A. A lot of people
gave the mAbs an F. But there is some excitement.
Anthony Davis has a deep relationship not only with Jason Kidd,

(02:48):
the head coach. Jason Kidd, of course was with the
Lakers during the Bubble Championship run, but Anthony Davis knows
Nico Harrison well, the GM of the MAVs. Nico used
to be at Nike and Anthony Davis was one of
his signature clients, obviously after Kobe Bryant. But Nico signed
ad before the draft and They've known each other for
over a decade, so there is that commonality between Ad

(03:11):
and the Mads. And let's not forget Michael Finley, the
assistant GM, the guy who took the beer from Luca.
He's from Illinois. He was like a high school legend.
Ended up playing Michael Jordan back in the day one
on one Anthony Davis from Chicago. So they really felt
comfortable with Anthony Davis. And I think it kind of
makes sense from the Mads on what they got in return.

(03:32):
What I didn't like, and I'm sure you guys saw
this over the weekend, was how could the Mavericks not
open this up to the entire league. Why didn't they
canvass the NBA and say, hey, uh, maybe we could
get eight first round picks. I mean, Mkill Bridges. Mikil
Bridges to the Knicks was like five first round picks.
I mean, Luca's gotta be worth ten, right, twelve first

(03:52):
round picks. But it doesn't work like that. Guys. Remember
they had to ship Luca somewhere where they know he
would sign. Nobody's gonna try to rent Luca for a
year and then just have him walk and give up
the whole franchise. So I actually narrowed it down and
I came up with only a handful of teams. Three
actually that could have could have gone after Luca should

(04:14):
there have been a bidding war. And they're obvious, right,
the Celtics in Boston. We know the Boston has definitely
the Amo. Luca would fit there, a winning franchise, one
of the winningest in professional sports in America. They make sense.
The New York Knicks makes sense, the aka Villanova Knicks,
who doesn't love to play for New York. Luca would
have clearly gone there and signed long term. And the

(04:35):
other one kind of a sleeping giant, the Miami Heat
hashtag heat culture. And yes, you can insert your jokes
about fat Luca not fitting into Heat culture, but trust me, guys,
pat Riley runs an amazing ship there in Miami, and
I believe that the Heat could have been in play
should Dallas have opened it up. But you guys know
how this stuff works. Come on, there's no The second

(04:57):
that the league got wind of Luca being on the market,
it would have been a total disaster. The price would
have gone down, Luca would have checked out. Kyrie Irving
and Company what are we doing. We're trading Luca. They
would have been destroyed in the press. So technically, I
think Dallas handled this well. Now I still think obviously
the Lakers won the trade. And if you're a Mavericks

(05:19):
fan and you listen to Nico Harrison and Jason Kidd
at the podium, you're gonna be a little sick to
your stomach. Here's Nico Harrison talking to the media yesterday.

Speaker 5 (05:29):
As we turned the page.

Speaker 6 (05:30):
I think it's important to know that Jak and we've
had a vision in the culture that we want to
create since we've been here, and the players that we're
bringing in we believe exemplify that. And you know, we
think defense wins championships. And we're bringing in one of
the best two way players in the league.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
Yeah, no doubt about that, Anthony Davis. I mean that's
one of Colin's favorite guys. I mean, Colin has it
like as an MVP candidate, top ten player in the league.
I have ad more in the top fifteen range, but
he's been incredible this weekend. Now we need to move
to the Lakers portion of the program. And you guys know,
w I coach my kids in sports so we had
back to back games. Yesterday my son played and then

(06:08):
my daughter. And yes, I am that guy who wore
a Lakers T shirt with a Lakers sweatshirt over it.
So when I take off the sweatshirt because I'm sweating
on the sidelines like a maniac coaching middle school kids,
I've still got Lakers gear on. And Folks, I can
promise you if thirty people came up to me at
the game, Jay Mac, what do you think about the Lakers?
We got Luca thirty for thirty. Everybody with Stoke. Now

(06:32):
one person was questioning this trade. This is rare that
everybody loves getting Luka, Doncic and folks, I know Rob
Polinka has been one of the most maligned front office
guys in the league Los Angeles. For whatever reason, people
cannot stand Rob Polenka. Guys, I'm telling you, all he's
done is push the right buttons. He has now set

(06:53):
the Lakers up for success for at least at least
the next seven years. Maybe you want to extend it
to ten. Fine, but they had no plan post Lebron
and I think Colin and I had talked about this
on the show. Hey man, can you build around Anthony
Davis at thirty two thirty three when Lebron leaves. I
just don't know that that makes sense. And you know,

(07:14):
Anthony Davis has a lot of wear and tear on
that body. We know Charles Barkley famously has called him
streak clothes because he's always injured. I don't know how
ad is gonna fare health wise into his thirties. So
that's why Dallas win now kind of works. We'll get
back to Dallas later in the show. They're really built
to hang with the best teams in the West. So
why are Lakers fans excited? Well, I don't know. They

(07:36):
just got a guy who's first team All NBA the
last five years. I mean, he came into the season
as the MVP favorite. For my money, and you guys,
you can look it up on my Instagram. Last July
July fourth, I said Luca Donci's best player in the league.
I've held this for like three years. I know Jokic's
winning MVPs and everybody loves Joel Embiid, just give me Luca.

(07:57):
He's unbelievable. And for the Jabroni's there who want to
say Luca doesn't play and I get fired up about
this because Luca's dad gave an interview over the weekend
and it was translated from into English and you could
see what he was saying, and he's kind of ticked
off at this narrative that Luca's lazy. Folks. Luca donc
just played seventy games last season, averaged thirty five minutes

(08:20):
a night. Okay. Then he went to the playoffs and
carried carried Dallas on his back. I know they had
Kyrie and Derek Lively in PJ.

Speaker 5 (08:29):
Washington.

Speaker 3 (08:30):
It was the Lucas Show. In twenty two playoff games,
he averaged forty minutes a night, points, rebounds, assists, He's
doing everything. So he played ninety two games last year,
and we're concerned about Luca being fat and out of shape.
It is total nonsense. Yes, occasionally, some of the European players,
Yokich is in the same boat. They got that dad bod. Okay.

(08:52):
I know Lucas twenty five and has a dad bod.
Maybe not great. But there's a quarterback here in the
Super Bowl who's gonna be playing this week who has
embraced the dad. His name is Patrick Mahomes. I don't
know if you're familiar with his work. But he also
is not a chiseled Lebron with six pack abs. That's
not how Mahomes rolls. That's not Jokic, and that's not Luca.
There are three of the best players in their respective sports.

(09:14):
Luca's gonna be fine when you can build around Luca
for the next seven to ten years in LA and
not totally have to worry about Lebron. You've got a
secession plan and everybody knows, like, listen, Lebron, maybe he's
got this year left, maybe he's got two. I mean,
you could stretch it to two if you want. And yes,
I saw Lebron put up a triple double and MSG

(09:34):
over the weekend, no Ad beat the Knicks, who are
one of the best teams in the league, one of
the top five title contenders. Lebron put on a show
like he could still do it, and him joining forces
with Luca Doncics for a season. Folks, I got a
couple buddies out here with season tickets to the Lakers.
Trust me, I've already hit them up. Hey, let me know,
let me know when you need somebody to wing man

(09:56):
it to a game, because this is gonna be one
of the best shows in the league. Lebron and Luca
essentially a passing of the torch. And I do want
to remind some people. Okay, it was just last year
that the Golden State Warriors made calls to the Lakers
about Lebron. They wanted to get in the Lebron business. Okay,
Lebron is not done. He's still got gas left in

(10:18):
the tank. I don't know how this Luca Lebron thing
is gonna necessarily work initially, but Luca made it work
with Kyrie Irving. There were a lot of questions, Hey,
are Luca and Kyrie gonna work? They figured it out.
They got to the finals. I know they got smoked
by Boston. Boston was a way better team. So now
you join Luca and Lebron and ooh ooh, the potential's
off the charts. And yes, I can hear you guys shouting.

(10:42):
We don't have any defense. Luca don't play defense. Austin
Reeves is a turnstile. Lebron can't guard anybody. Let's take
a deep breath. The Lakers, by winning this trade, did
not give up both of their future first round picks,
so they still have Ammo, if they want to go
out and chase a Miles turn in Indiana, if they
want to get Clint Cappella, Nick Klaxton. There are bigs

(11:05):
around the league that could come in. I'm not saying
the Lakers are winning the chip this year, but how
can you not be beyond excited for the Lakers' future
with Luka Doncic. Okay, I know everybody, well not everybody.
Some people on social media seem to think the league
is rigged, which I guess is the buzzword in twenty
twenty five, right Kansas City Chiefs. Obviously nobody thinks the

(11:29):
NFL's rigged or the NBA. But it's a funny topic,
right boy Lakers boy Magic Johnson, going back James Worthy,
how are they always getting great players? Shack decided to
pick the Lakers. Kobe Bryant famously forced his way to
the Lakers by telling Charlotte, I will rather go to
Italy and play, and they had to move on and

(11:50):
say five, fine, We'll trade Kobe. And then they got
Pau Gasol in one of the great heists in NBA
trade history. And now look at this, Look at this
players acquired via trade Wilt Chamberlain decent. Okay, he's a
top ten player all time. Jabbar, he's a top five
player all time. Kobe Bryant certainly a top ten player

(12:12):
all time. Palga Sol he's in the Hall. He's gonna
be in the Hall of Fame. Or is a d
who has a title and is on track to be
a Hall of Fame player, and now Luka Dantic, Like guys,
that list is unbelievable. At some point, we got to say,
you know, maybe the Lakers just know what the hell
they're doing in chasing stars, okay, And you look around

(12:32):
the West and you're like, Okay, I got Luca and Lebron,
and I'm supposed to be afraid of OKC. I got
Luca and Lebron, and I'm worried about Jokich and the Nuggets.
Like I think the Lakers are going to firmly be
in the mix, assuming health, you know, everybody's everybody's fine,
And I do wonder you know, I mentioned Austin Reevez.
He's my guy. Regular listeners and viewers of this show. No,

(12:56):
I'm an Austin Reeves defender. Not sure how he fits
now with the Lakers. So I put a pause on
my buy. The Austin Reeves Jersey have not done that
as yet, but Luka Donca Jersey will be next. I
think it makes sense. If you're the Lakers, you say,
can we package Ruey? We packaged Austin Reeves and that
number one pick go big game hunting. Now we've got

(13:17):
a rim protector. I know people don't like it when
the Lakers are on top, but this Luca dncistick I
was grinning ear to ear so Saturday night, I'm you know,
wife was out of town with her friend, and I'm
in town with the kids. We're watching this movie air Bud.
I don't know if you guys have seen this from
like the late nineties. I don't even think our producers
were born when this movie came out. And you know,

(13:39):
they need to go to the bathroom. So I just
look at my phone and I've got this just a
flurry of text messages coming in. And the first one
is from this guy who played the high levels of basketball.
He's now a referee.

Speaker 5 (13:50):
J Mack.

Speaker 3 (13:51):
I gotta ask, this seems too good to be true.
How did we get Luca? And my first reaction is, wait,
Luca again, I'm watching Airbud, I tell the kids, hold on,
hold on, we gotta pause the movie and I dive
in and for the next hour, I'm just riveted by this,
just unbelievable turn of events. It really felt like a dream, guys.

(14:11):
It genuinely felt Wait, did this really happen?

Speaker 7 (14:15):
Like?

Speaker 3 (14:15):
Who trades one of the best players in the NBA
in his prime? It's just an unfathomable turn of events.
And we're gonna have Rachel Nichols, longtime NBA insider, She's
gonna come on the set here next and talk about
the Lakers acquiring Luca. The dynasty continues in La. Lakers
exceptionalism it's a thing, people. So we're back after this

(14:37):
with Rachel Nichols talking Lakers.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
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Speaker 8 (14:44):
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Speaker 9 (14:49):
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Speaker 4 (14:56):
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Speaker 4 (15:38):
That's Covino and Rich.

Speaker 3 (15:40):
Back here on the Herd, Jason McIntyre step it in
for Colin Cowherd joining us now on the set the
Great Rachel Nichols. Fox Sports NBA Insider covered the NBA forever. Rachel,
how you doing?

Speaker 10 (15:53):
I am better than Colin? Apparently who's six? So you
and I are healthy and that's a good day for.

Speaker 3 (15:58):
Us and listen, great break day to be on the
show talking NBA. I mean, Rachel, you know you talk
to people around the league, Yes, Like, what has been
the reaction around the league since you know, the earth
shook Saturday night when the Lakers got Luca.

Speaker 7 (16:11):
It's really almost impossible to quantify the amount of shock
that we have felt from every corner of the NBA.
I have been covering this league for the better part
of three decades. You have GMS executives who are round
around the league for forty fifty years and have never
seen anything like this. And part of it is the
surprise of trading away a twenty five year old who

(16:33):
has made the five last all NBA teams, who's a
perennial MVP candidate, who took his team to the NBA
Finals seven months ago. But in addition to that, even
more so than the fact that they wanted to trade
him away, it was how they did it. And I
think part of that is the nitty gritty of NBA
front offices. They're always interested in that aspect, maybe more

(16:54):
than the fans. But how they did it has been
a huge shock because it seems that the Mavericks. In
trading away this incredible asset left a bunch of other
things on the table that they could have gotten for him,
and really no one understands that.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
Yeah, it seems like the tipping point may have been, Hey,
we just got to the finals, Luca comes back kind
of out of shape. Then he has the calf injury. Again,
there were reports he was close to two sixty. That's
like Miles Garrett size. I don't know, do you get
a sense that's kind of what precipitated this deal.

Speaker 7 (17:25):
I mean, I think it's a lot of things over
a lot of years, and I will say, we don't
know everything, and I have to assume Nico Harrison is
a smart guy.

Speaker 10 (17:34):
Jason Kidd is a smart guy.

Speaker 7 (17:35):
I know Jason wasn't directly involved in this trade, but
in general, this is not a dumb team that has
a history of terrible transactions. Right, So, you know, they
obviously traded away a few guys under the Mark Cuban
era you'd like to have back. But my point is
that there must have been something that they knew that
we don't know. What we do know is that, yes,
there have been conditioning issues with him over the years,

(17:56):
if he really is in the two sixties, that's nearly
twenty pounds overweight, and that leads to soft tissue injuries,
which Luca has had several of. In fact, he's out
with one right now. So the idea that he might
be perennially unavailable, whether he was sort of flouting team rules,
whether there was a bit of sort of hey, we've
asked you to do this and you've refused time and
time and time again, whether it's the arguing with officials

(18:17):
that they've asked him to tone down and that has
actually cost his team specific losses that you can point to.
And I have to assume there's more to the story, right,
So if you add all of that stuff up over
all the years, I personally would still not trade Luca Dagis.
I don't know what the unknown thing is that we
don't know, so maybe that would tip me over as well.

(18:39):
But in general, the idea of trading a twenty five
year old who really isn't even in his prime yet,
you are a betting against the next ten years of
Luca's future. That is a heavy bet to make with
a guy who has frankly been a prodigy since he
was eleven years old and who you were incredibly lucky
by like six strokes of luck to get.

Speaker 10 (19:01):
Him in the first place.

Speaker 7 (19:02):
You'd add other front agents for front offices in front
of you, you know, to make decisions that they probably
shouldn't have made just for you to get him, and
the idea that they did and then decided to trade
him away is shocking.

Speaker 3 (19:15):
So you did doing media longer than I have. But
there have been people who've doubted us. I'm sure everybody
in any job's been doubted. And you know, you look
at Luca essentially, the Atlanta Hawks were like, eh, we
like him, but we'd rather have trade young. Yeah, Sacramento
drafted I believe it was Marvin Badley over Luka Doncic,
and now Dallas had him, he took him the finals
and they trade him. So that's three teams that have

(19:35):
quit on him or passed on him, and he's only
twenty five and Dallas cost him over one hundred million
dollars with the Super Max. Do you think all of
this adds up to Luca maybe being more locked in
and Bean like, Hey, nobody believes in me. I'm gonna
get my I'm gonna get my butt in shape and
take over. This could be a springboard to Luca for
even more greatness, if that's possible.

Speaker 10 (19:55):
Look, if he does need a wake up call, this
was it right? If it really is a matter of.

Speaker 7 (19:59):
Hey, he just needs to change his attitude, changes approach.
If this doesn't wake you up, I don't know what will.
And again, the Mavericks are betting against his next ten years.
The Lakers are obviously betting on his next ten years
that he will be that superstar that they need to
follow Lebron James, that he will get his act together
in the ways that the Mavericks felt that he couldn't.

(20:20):
And I have to think it's possible. Luca also not
a dumb guy, and in in fact, one of the
guys he really is close with and looks up to
in the league is Nikola Jokic, who went through a
little bit of the same thing, obviously not with quite
the attitude issues that were described around Luca. Again, I
don't know, I'm not in the room, but Jokic certainly
had a very leis a fair approach to his diet

(20:40):
right and sort of the team would ask him to
get in shape, and he really was kept drinking cochs
every day and all the.

Speaker 10 (20:45):
Other stuff, it wouldn't really work out.

Speaker 7 (20:47):
And he just decided kind of going into the twenty
nineteen twenty twenty season that things had to change, and
he had a severe alteration to his diet, to his
workout routine, to what he did during this season, and
it obviously paid off immediately and he led him to
multiple MVPs.

Speaker 10 (21:04):
It led him to become a champion.

Speaker 7 (21:05):
So if that happens to Luca, if Jokich pulls him
aside and said, all right, this is it, now it's time,
if someone in his family or if Luca himself decides
this is it, then we could see a very determined,
very different player for the Lakers that the Mavericks and
their fans are gonna have to watch for the.

Speaker 3 (21:22):
Next ten years. Speaking of MAVs fans, so I'm sure
you've seen the memes kids crying with like six Luca
jerseys next to them in their bedroom. It's understandable. However,
there is a positive. You're Anthony Davis is a plug
and play guy. Now you've got a lot of debt.
He gets to play four right lively when he comes back,
and then Gafford the Biggs. They're kind of built to

(21:43):
hang with Denver. I think Max Christy, I know people
are like forgetting him. He's a good defender. I think
the Lakers are fifteen and eight since he became a starter,
Like there's a world where they can hang with SGA
and Okac Like sorry SGA, Yeah and okay, See do
you think that Dallas there's a world war or they
maybe get back to the finals this year?

Speaker 7 (22:02):
I mean sure, I mean no one expected them to
get to the finals last year and they did it,
so yes, of course that kind of scenario is possible.
And I don't think there's any question or not much
of a question that they are a better team this
year this season with Anthony Davis in there than with Luca,
who's had a ton of injury issues this year. However,
that's this season which lasts what four more months? I mean,

(22:24):
come on, and by the way, they have other.

Speaker 10 (22:25):
Injuries on their team that they still have to deal with.
Dallas does.

Speaker 7 (22:28):
But you cannot underscore, underplay anything what the next ten
years that you just traded away was. And look, Luca
was due for a Supermax contract, he could have signed
it as early as this summer. That also precipitated some
of this discussion. Nico Harrison said as much during his
press conference yesterday that look, it's clear that they were

(22:49):
nervous about signing him for three hundred and fifty million
dollars and then getting into a situation with injuries or
other things where they're in the Philadelphia Joel Embiid situation,
right or oh gosh, where are the Clippers doing with
Kawhi Leonard. Now he's on a better contract than he
was before, but still like you're paying for a guy
who generally hasn't been there for big stretches of the season.
The fear of that was clearly a huge motivator. I

(23:13):
would argue you could have still signed him to that
supermax and then traded him a year later. There's a
mandatory waiting period, but you could have traded him after
that and you still would have gotten a ton of.

Speaker 10 (23:23):
Takers around the league.

Speaker 7 (23:24):
And by the way, if you had done that, then
you really could have opened up the bidding. Now, the
argument is they did a one team trade with the
Lakers because they didn't want to sort of make a
mess of the season. Stuff you were talking about in
the last segment that you know they wanted to not
have that discussion of where will he go and therefore
being railroaded into only one or two choices.

Speaker 10 (23:44):
To me, that doesn't.

Speaker 7 (23:45):
Really hold because the Lakers traded for him sight unseen.
The Lakers traded for him without knowing what kind of
contract he would sign a year and a half from now.
And by the way, I think if you polled most
teams in the league, not all, but most, they would
take a guaranteed a year and a half with Luka
Doncic was still left on his current contract right now
and say we can convince him that this is the

(24:05):
place he wants to stay, give us a year and
a half. The Mavericks did it with Kyrie Irvins when
they traded for him and only had three months to
convince him. They traded for him near the trade deadline,
and then he was going to be a free agent
that summer, and they gave a bunch of stuff away
for him, and their goal was, Hey, we think when
he's here, he's got a great relationship with Jason Kidd,
we can convince him to stay. And by the way

(24:28):
they did so, the idea that Luca could have made
a list and that you know, they wouldn't have been
able to have any takers if it wasn't his quote
preferred destination.

Speaker 10 (24:37):
I personally don't really buy that.

Speaker 7 (24:39):
I think Luka Doncic is such a unique talent and
the idea that you would get him for a year
and a half. Look what Toronto did with Kawhi Leonard right,
They were like, great, we've got him for a year.
We hope we can convince him to stay, but even
if we can't, it's worth it. And guess what, they
couldn't convince him and it was still worth it. So
I don't really buy the whole Hey, if you had
opened it up and his preferred destinations and that would

(25:00):
have put us in a worse position. I can't imagine
it would put you in a worse position than negotiating
with only one team and having.

Speaker 10 (25:09):
That team not even give up. It's full arsenal.

Speaker 7 (25:12):
And again this goes back to your first question of Hey,
what are people around the league saying? It's the methodology
as much as the actual trade itself. The Lakers had
two first rounders they could have given up, and they didn't.
They only gave up one. And I see from the
Lakers side why they're a thrilled about that and be saying, hey,
we don't know he could go anywhere in a year
and a half. I mean, I understand their argument to Dallas.

(25:34):
If I'm Dallas, I am saying, that's great, we need
both your picks to make this work. Otherwise I'm opening
it up to the rest of the league. And I
guarantee you, especially in a franchise where ownership really values
having a star, that Lakers would have said, all right, Ari, fine,
here's the second pack.

Speaker 3 (25:50):
So do you think the Lakers use that other pick
and maybe Austin Reeves, maybe Ruy to go get a center.
I know MAXI can kind of play center Markis Morris,
but there's small ball. They're not protecting the room. They're
not stopping Jokic. No, your thoughts to the Lakers make
another move.

Speaker 7 (26:04):
I mean they're in a great position to make another
move now, right because before it was I don't know,
do you get rid of Austin Reeves because of what
he means the team?

Speaker 10 (26:11):
Right now?

Speaker 7 (26:11):
Well, you don't need that anymore because you have Luka Doncic,
and so I think that they are much more flexible.
They still have a first round pick to give out.
There is no question a. They need a center presence,
and they need a defensive center because the downside of
this trade that the Lakers just made is that they
might score two hundred points a game, but the other
team might score two hundred and thirty. So you know,

(26:33):
they have got to get a strong defensive presence in
the middle, and I expect them to go out and
do that because they have assets now that they didn't
even have before this. Because of now, they have more
flexibility with their roster, and they still have the first
round pick that should be in Dallas.

Speaker 3 (26:47):
So I'll get to the super Bowl in a second.
But one other trade that went down, we haven't even
touched on. A darn Fox in a bizarre trade goes
from the Sacramento Kings to now the Spurs playing with
Webbin Yama. They didn't give up Castle or Vassal Like,
Spurs look kind of dangerous. They're only outside looking in. Now,
Zach Levine, I'm a big Zach Lavine guy. He goes
to the Kings. You look at the Spurs once they

(27:09):
make a move, and they will. Is this a team
that could upset at Houston or a Memphis in the
first round. I'm excited for weban Yama.

Speaker 10 (27:16):
Yeah. Absolutely.

Speaker 7 (27:17):
Look, I think and have been saying since before he
was drafted. Mark my words, people, Victor webin Yama will
be a top ten player of all time, all time period.
He could be a I can say that with much
less certainty. I would put Victor webin Yama ahead of
any one other young player in the NBA in terms

(27:38):
of my prediction of that. In fact, I put him
ahead of I don't know. I mean, Lebron James obviously
is ahead of that. But there's a very few guys
I would put ahead of him in my all time
prediction because I mean, look, he could get injured, and
obviously all bets are off. But the way his motor is,
his talent, his alien form quote unquote that we've never
seen before in this league, his drive, and the fact

(28:00):
that he's in an organization that, as you just pointed out,
makes super smart moves, has a great coaching tree. Whatever
happens with Greg Popovich going forward, he will clearly be
around the team, and therefore his people will be around
the team.

Speaker 10 (28:12):
I mean, he is in the.

Speaker 7 (28:14):
Driver's seat of this entire next generation of the NBA
and Darren Fox, as far as I'm concerned, won the
lottery in terms of getting to be the point guard
who has the first major audition of Hey, I could
be this guy's partner for the next five to seven
to ten years, and the idea that you could get
partnered as a point guard with Victor and you're basically saying, yes,

(28:36):
sign me up for those championship rings.

Speaker 10 (28:38):
It's a great deal for Fox.

Speaker 7 (28:40):
It's why he targeted the Spurs in this trade, saying
that he didn't want to resign with Sacramento. And yeah,
san Antonio made a great deal, as they do, and
as we would have hoped the Mavericks would have done
with the asset that they had.

Speaker 3 (28:52):
Very good. I would ask about Zach Lavine, but the
producers will yell, we don't do kings on the show.
You know, really weird. Not you, Ryan, But let's go
to the NFL. So I grew up in the DC
area and my parents would get the Washington Post and
I would get it every morning read sports section, and
Rachel was one of the prominent writers. Will bond Court,
I love, I love the Washington Posts, and you obviously

(29:12):
have covered DC sports for a while the Commanders just
made an incredible run in the postseason. Cowherd did make
that call. I gotta give him credit.

Speaker 10 (29:20):
Look at my face.

Speaker 3 (29:21):
I know you're very excited, but I have to ask.
The way it ended was rough? Eagles? Look good? Do
the Eagles have a chance to, you know, thwart the
three peet here that the Chiefs are going for.

Speaker 10 (29:31):
I didn't just work in Washington, d C.

Speaker 7 (29:33):
I grew up in that area, So I am really
genetically engineered to never say anything nice about the Philadelphia
Eagles or anyone else in the NFC East. So as
far as I'm concerned, Chief Chief, Chief, Chief Chiefs, And look,
I didn't like.

Speaker 10 (29:47):
The one thing I didn't like about.

Speaker 7 (29:48):
The way the Chiefs have approached this season is right
on the podium after they won number two last year,
they were already talking about three peating and number three
And I always think that's incredibly dangerous. It's not how
you should be focusing on, you know, Bill Belichick, One
game at a time, one day at a time. That
sort of thing is how you stack up multiple championships.
That being said, even though they've had a ton of

(30:09):
close calls this season, they keep winning, and I am
just not betting against Patrick Mahomes. I'm not doing it,
and I'm especially not doing it against an NFC East team,
Thank you very much.

Speaker 3 (30:20):
And I meant I wanted to start with Washington because
we haven't got to the Miles Garrett stuff. It's been
such a busy morning. But I made a list before
the show of teams that make sense for Miles Garrett,
who demanded a trade from the Browns, and at the
top of my list is Washington. I mean, you've got
the quarterback on the rookie deal. You can spend the
defense when they give up fifty five to the Eagles.
Miles Garrett is an exceptional player. I mean, Washington is

(30:41):
drafting the late first round. I believe it's twenty nine. Yeah,
I mean, are you willing to part with the pick
and whatever? Within reason?

Speaker 10 (30:48):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (30:48):
I mean, Miles Garrett will make a ton of sense
in DC.

Speaker 7 (30:51):
I'm always a big believer as a sports analysis, in
a sports analyst and sort of just as a fan.
Frankly too, is that the known quantity is better than
the pick. I know a lot of GM's always love
the pick. Give me the pick.

Speaker 10 (31:02):
The pick is full of.

Speaker 7 (31:03):
Possibilities, guess what you are betting if you prioritize the pick,
that that pick is going to be better than Miles.

Speaker 10 (31:10):
Guess what.

Speaker 7 (31:11):
I'm not willing to take that chance. I just want Miles. Yeah, yeah,
bring him in absolutely.

Speaker 3 (31:16):
And the other team I would have is a team
out here that you know well, the Rams, Yes, who
love to swing for the fences. The GM in the
front office very savvy. Do they could do you? Can
you see them making a move one last push? Sounds
like Stafford's in based on the late reports last week.
Do you think any chance the Rams get involved with
a Miles Garrett, who you know is a transformational defensive player.

Speaker 10 (31:36):
Yeah, I absolutely do.

Speaker 7 (31:37):
First of all, they have a very savvy front office,
and they are more in the win now mode with
Stafford than they would be if they had a younger
quarterback who is you know, just starting out. Obviously Jayden
Daniels is a younger quarterback, but that situation is a
little bit unique and different. I absolutely think it would
be smart for the Rams to get involved.

Speaker 10 (31:54):
This is a proven.

Speaker 7 (31:54):
Guy, yeah, and again that is hard to come by
in any of these leagues.

Speaker 3 (31:59):
All right, Rachel Nichols, she wore red is it red
for Washington or Kansas City.

Speaker 10 (32:04):
I'll leave that to you too.

Speaker 3 (32:07):
I like it. Hey, thanks for rescuing me here in
the final hour, you know, I you know, the first hour,
it felt like a final hour.

Speaker 7 (32:14):
Can I say one more thing about the Mavericks and
their fans. I think that's the other underrated part of
all of this is that you mentioned the MAVs fans
and the crying. They actually had a casket out there
at the arena yesterday protesting, and there were profanity written
on the sidewalk in front of the Dirk statue. These
people thought they were getting a Lucas statue next to

(32:35):
the Dirk statue. There's an expression, as I'm sure you know,
MAVs Fans for life MFFL. That's the sign off, that's
the tag that they put at the end of every
social media post. This really shook the four life part
of a lot of Dallas fans, and I do think
that damage with the fans is something the franchise did
not anticipate.

Speaker 3 (32:53):
Yeah, all right, fifteen seconds over under one and a
half titles for Luca with the Lakers.

Speaker 10 (33:01):
I don't know, come on, I don't know, come go over.

Speaker 3 (33:04):
I hit the over.

Speaker 10 (33:05):
I'm not willing to make that.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
Bet one more heard. The Herd streams twenty four hours
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Speaker 4 (33:30):
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Speaker 3 (34:17):
Welcome back our number two on the Herd. Jason McIntyre
in for Colin Cowherd. Yes, I'm in relief. I had
to go to the bullped early in this one. Folks,
Cowherd under the weather. Hopefully back tomorrow, definitely back Thursday
for the super Bowl. Huge, huge sports weekend just happened,
and obviously the super Bowl the crown jewel on the

(34:38):
sports calendar. That is Sunday, We're gonna have Matt Hasselback
on to talk about the game. I'm gonna pepper up
with Miles Garrett. Questions. No, my Jets are not gonna
get involved in Miles Garrett, but I'm sure he has
some good teams. Obviously, I'm interested in the super Bowl
week prep. You know, you got two weeks which is abnormal.
What's that like? You know how many people are hitting

(34:59):
you up for take it's good luck, techs, high school
exes hitting you up. I'm sure, Hasselbeck has all the
good stuff. So we'll talk to him shortly, but we're
gonna go back to Luka Doncic to the Lakers just
momentarily because I need to do another victory lap, folks.
I am like just the biggest Luka Doncic fan, and
I remember going, you know, back pre COVID, the Lakers

(35:20):
would let the media get press passes and go to
the games, and you sometimes you get crappy seats, but
I would go like two hours before the game and
watch shoot around and you could do that on the floor,
So I would literally get to the arena when the
players are just so I could go to the court.
And I went specifically to watch Luca. And I'm just
telling you, this guy at his size, he's like six

(35:41):
eight two forty two fifty. He's like an NFL player.
He's like the size of a linebacker or a defensive end.
And he comes out and he's doing these moves and
he makes it look so effortless. And I'm not gonna lie.
You guys are all the huge basketball nerd. I play
in three men's leagues because I'm an idiot, and I
just fell in love with Luka Doncic's game. He makes
it look so easy and he makes everyone better. And

(36:04):
there really is only two guys in the league who
can do literally everything make everyone better. I know Jokic
is there, but at the big guy. He doesn't have
the ball in his hands all the time. Everything revolves
around him in Denver. But essentially Luca is Lebron part two.
That's what he is. You watch he carried that MAVs
team to the finals last year. Remember at the trade deadline,

(36:27):
Dallas was like a middling team, middle of the pack,
and Luca just put him on his back and took
over and took down mighty OKC and took down the
Timberwolves who had beaten Denver, and they got to the finals.
And I know they got smoked by Boston. But anybody
you here taking shots at Luka Donci just has no
clue what they're talking about. You look at the numbers,

(36:47):
and what he's accomplished in his first six years in
the league is unfathomable. And I know Rachel Nichols earlier
just said, hey, web Ben Yama's going to be a
top ten player. I don't think anybody would disagree. But
if you just look at the numbers, Luka Doncics is
on track to be a top ten player all time period.
That's what he's done in the first five years of
his career firs six. Sorry, and now he goes to

(37:08):
the Lakers, and yeah, the pizzas aren't quite there, but
you figure it out, right, Hey, we got our superstar,
We've got our foundational piece. Now we build around him.
You know, keeping Austin Reeves pretty savvy move by Rob Polinka.
They gave up Max Christy, who, by the way, Max
Christy had looked very good with the Lakers since he
got inserted into the starting lineup. They were fifteen and eight.

(37:29):
But you keep Austin Reeves and you keep that of
the first pick, so you now have more ammo to
go out and make another move.

Speaker 9 (37:36):
You know.

Speaker 3 (37:36):
A guy I feel kind of sorry for is Klay Thompson.
You know, Clay goes to a team that just went
to the finals. Hey, I'm playing with Luca and Kyrie,
and now it's like Luca's out the door. And I
know this went down Saturday night, but guys, did you
see what happened to Dallas yesterday?

Speaker 5 (37:52):
In their game?

Speaker 3 (37:53):
They were down like fifty in the first half. I
think they give up ninety one or ninety three to
the Calves. That's how shell shock this franchise is. And
you know, I write about stuff on gambling for Fox
sports dot com and they asked me for an NBA
take last week, and I looked at the landscape and
I said, we don't know when Lively is coming back,

(38:14):
maybe not this regular season, and Luca, we don't know
when he's coming back. You should consider betting on the
Maps to miss the playoffs. And we posted it, and
of course I get the usual suspects, these meatballs. Oh,
you're an idiot, the Maps are going to the finals.
I'm like, okay, let's just wait. And now you look
at him and you're like, whoa jeez. If something happens
to Kyrie Irving for two weeks and the ad fit

(38:35):
is a little clunky, No, Lively, there's a world where
the Maps missed the playoffs entirely. And I know, Charles Barkley,
I didn't want to say this when Rachel was here
because she's close with Barkley. Charles Barkley comes out on
social media yesterday the MAVs are the second best team
in the West, Like, come on, Charles, see, I don't
need to take unnecessary shots at you super Bowl week,

(38:56):
but they're not the second best team in the West,
and in fact, they could miss the playoffs. That's how
bleak it could be. Kyrie Irving is really their only shot.
Creator doesn't look good. If you're the Lakers, you don't
care much about this year because you got Luca long term.
All right, let's welcome in Matt Hasselbeck, the longtime NFL quarterback,
just a true legend in the industry, Titan when it

(39:18):
comes to sports media. How are you? Man?

Speaker 5 (39:20):
What's up man, Wally Pip? What do we think?

Speaker 1 (39:23):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (39:26):
I don't think.

Speaker 5 (39:27):
I thought we were going to get a Michael Jordan
Flue game today here from college. Yeah, but he wasn't
up for it. He wasn't feeling almost he gave it
a run.

Speaker 3 (39:34):
He gave it a run. Okay, So it's super Bowl week,
you know, weeks two weeks. Yes, So take us back
to when you went to the Super Bowl two thousand
and five against Steel.

Speaker 5 (39:45):
Yeah, it's two thousand and five, season two thousand and six.
You know, once you know, the new year comes and
it's very different. You know, I felt very fortunate. I
think my teammates did too. Our head coach was Mike Holmgren.
Mike Holmgren had been with the San Francisco forty nine
ers in their heyday with Walsh and you know, Joe
Montana and Ronnie Lott and Steve Young and all those guys.
And he had also been to all those Super Bowls

(40:06):
with with Brett Farv and Reggie White and those guys
at the Green Bay Packers. So he had a template
like he had. There was no like, hm, what should
we do here? He like, we got to the we
win the NFC championship game, we beat Carolina, and then
immediately after the game, it was like, the schedules will
be in your locker. We'll have a meeting tomorrow, the
schedules will be in your locker right away. Like they knew,
like they had they had it down. And I think

(40:29):
for us as players, there was just a lot of
comfort in that. It was like, you know what, there's
a lot to worry about in this situation. Parents, you know, family, tickets, travel,
like all this stuff that get the actual game right.
And it was just like this idea of like coaches
got it, like we're good, the organization's got it, they're
going to be first class and all this stuff. And
for both these teams, like, I think that is something

(40:50):
they've both recently been in the Super Bowl. Obviously, Andy
Reid and these guys like they probably don't even have
to look up the schedule and what they do. He can, uh,
he could probably commit it from memory. So uh, I
think for us, you know, the two weeks was a
thing as well, and the biggest thing that I would
say about that, Like you saw even recently with Sean
mcvayh talk about he had two weeks to prepare for

(41:12):
this for the Patriots in that first Super Bowl, how
he kind of felt like he overcooked it and he
was much better the second time around. That was one
thing that I certainly felt like, you know, Mike Holmgren
did a great job in our in our in our
Super Bowl game planning. He was very strict with the coaches,
like in that second week, because you put the game
plan in the first week. If you want to put

(41:33):
a new play in, fine, but something's got to come out,
you know, you get whatever. The number was two hundred
and eighty two plays for the game plan, but it's
not two eighty three, you know, and so like I
think there is there is a there is something to
this two weeks of preparation where you're sort of sharpening
the acts and not necessarily just swinging harder. You know,

(41:55):
you're not over trying. And so you know this is
maybe a wash because these two teams have been there before.

Speaker 3 (42:01):
They have but one instrumental player, Sequon Barkley. This is
his first go round. And I just wonder for a
running back again, you were a quarterback, but I'm just curious,
is he going to be overamped given Oh my gosh sake,
one you come to the Eagles, They're going right back
to the Super Bowl.

Speaker 5 (42:18):
Overamped is a good thing for a running back if
it's on game day. Overamped during the week, you know,
that's where you can feel exhausted. You want to do
the game. And I would say if you talk to
most people that play in the Super Bowl, they'll tell
you I didn't know how exhausted I was from doing
media for two weeks straight, you know, talking to people
I hadn't talked to you, or just you know, all

(42:38):
the media availability. I mean, it starts tonight and he
just kind of goes through and your creatures of habit
as an NFL player. But now I think for the
running back and you even see it with Nick Sirianni
and company. I think they've really coached this season, practiced
this season. You even see who gets healthy rest days
on Wednesday, practices during the season they've had the goal

(43:01):
has been this super Bowl the whole time. I was
pretty vocal and critical. Even I thought they should have
gone for the rushing record. I thought they should have
gone for Eric Dickerson's record. That's a feather in the
cap to this great offensive line, this great o line coach,
the scheme, the wide receivers blocking the year that Taque
had to Eagles fans like, no, our running back owns
that record, and they and they had a tough decision

(43:24):
to make, and they said, no, you know, we're gonna
We're gonna sitch you. We're gonna let that record pass
because our ultimate goal is a Hoyst Lombardi. And you know,
I would have personally, I would have liked to have
seen them to try to do both. But with that
being said, you know, I think that in their mind
they know not to overdo it in practice.

Speaker 3 (43:43):
These next two weeks, you mentioned the Eagles run game,
and that has been a weakness of the Chiefs defense
here late in the season. I'm trying to think of
the game plan the Eagles may employ. They're not just
gonna come out and run the ball. Run, run, run, run, right,
I can't imagine that that, you know, the Chiefs are
gonna be ready for.

Speaker 5 (43:59):
I think a lot of times you see those big
call sheets that you know, Andy Reid has his famous it,
you know, looks like the waffle house many you know,
it's like it's a huge call sheet and a lot
of times you'll see guys notes on there, and like
in my in my playing career, a common thing, a
common note that play callers will give to themselves, especially
as someone who's creative in the passing game, is something
along the lines of make them prove that they can

(44:22):
stop the run, Like, make them prove it first. Let's
let let's just like assume that their gap sound like
when they want to bliz our protections or do swim
moves on a pass rush, make them prove that they're
going to do that. So, No, I do think that's
going to be the thing. And I do think that
what we've seen in the playoffs We've seen a ton
of home run runs really all season from Saquon and

(44:45):
I heard Bill Belichick talk about this and he nailed it.
He absolutely nailed it. And basically what he was saying
is like, when you say, oh, just stack the box
against the run, well that's no good because once he
gets through that first level, it's just the angle of
the safe versus Saquon that's deciding an eight yard run
to a sixty eight yard run. And that has you

(45:06):
really destroyed some defenses this year. So what Belichick was saying,
I completely agree. You need to have layers to the defense.
So stacking the box is not it like too high
with you know, like two deep safeties, deep ish safeties,
twelve yard safeties where those guys can be sort of
like the safe actual safeties to protect home runs. That

(45:27):
has to be part of the game plan for cancer.

Speaker 3 (45:29):
But then isn't it just death by one thousand and
eight yard runs?

Speaker 5 (45:33):
Sort of if you think that Kellen Moore is going
to be patient enough and boring enough to not have
to feed a hyped up aj Brown and feed DeVante
Smith and feed Dallas Goddard and make sure Jalen Hurts
feels part of the game, like you're basically this is
an old Romeo Crenell saying, like make them go the long,

(45:53):
hard way, like they will, they will get creative. And
especially like just knowing Kellen Moore, right, like Kellen Moore's
up for a head coaching job, this is still an
audition for him. He doesn't have that Saint's job. He's
you know, you saw Kyle Shanahan and his Super Bowl
when he could have just been boring and run it,
but like confident in the year that he had confident
in his you know, MVP quarterback and his great receiver, like, hey,

(46:15):
we can we can be balanced, we can be balanced.
That's the way they're gonna want. I think Kansas City's
gonna want them to be throwing the ball. So that'll
be interesting to see. But no, I do think and listen,
just even going back to Kellen Moore, knowing who he
was as a player, I remember this kid as a
high school quarterback in Prosser, Washington, throwing for like thousands

(46:36):
and thousands of yards, beating teams sixty three to noth
and his dad was his high school coach. Very aggressive,
kind of air raateish vibe as a passer. And then
he goes to Boise State. You know, Heisman Trophy candidate
Kellen Moore. I mean, people forget this. And then he
played a couple of games games in Dallas and threw
for like four hundred and something yards and four hundred
and something yards. He's a passing game guy. So we

(46:58):
think of the Eagles as a running team. But trust me,
the guy calling the plays in his DNA what he
really is, first and foremost, he wants to throw that ball.

Speaker 3 (47:08):
By the way, should Saints fans be excited about him?
I don't mean to be negative here, but you know,
he kind of got run out of Dallas. We don't
know the circumstances, whether it was McCarthy didn't want him.
Then he goes to the Chargers and it was ugly there,
and now he goes to the Eagles and it's like,
is it Kellen Moore or is it take one Barkley.

Speaker 5 (47:23):
I Saints got all kinds of problems right now, but
I would just say, like, when you're talking about a
coordinator who can build an offense around a special running back,
and I think that's what they did. Like Philly struggled early,
like the first month of the season. They were trying
to get an identity. They figured it out. Now the
Saints have Alvin Kamara, and Alvin Kamara like to me,
he's one of the more underrated guys, Like you can

(47:45):
build around Alvin Kamara and somebody else. So but uh no,
this is an audition, right, this is still an audition,
and that's what this Super Bowl is for a guy
like that.

Speaker 3 (47:54):
All right, let's go to the Chiefs. I don't want
to say I'm a Chiefs hater. Chiefs fans don't like that.
I've been negative. They're fifteen to two this season. But
let's be real. The better team, would you agree, is
the Eagles? Here team everybody, not just quarterback coach.

Speaker 5 (48:07):
Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. I mean they're like they're
the I've been on the Eagles all year. Yeah, I
love the Eagles. I think the Eagles are strong. There's
every reason in the world to love them. Their their
talent level is high, their defense is amazing. Got a
ton of respect for Vic Fangio, played against him a bunch.
He's a headache, you know to deal with. Their D
line's great, the you know, the the weapons, they don't

(48:28):
spread it around too much. They got aj Brown, Davante Dallas, Goddard,
Sey Kwon, Jalen Hurts, great leader. Uh No, there's there's
all this stuff, but they're they it's like Superman. Yeah,
with Mahome, that's what it is. And Andy Reid and
there's and you know, for all the turnover in the NFL,
there's been so much continuity in Kansas City, and I like,

(48:48):
you know, a lot of people like they don't get success,
they fire a coach, they make a change, they do
the like like learn that lesson from Kansas City. Those
guys know each other, Like I know, Matt and Aggie
went away for a little bit and the enemy left.
But like really it's been the same coaching staff for
a long time. Yeah. So you know again, like I think,
like you just talk about the uniqueness of generational talent

(49:09):
with Patrick Mahomes, he's got his guy in Travis Kelcey,
and then they do have one of the more automatic
kickers in the game. They're always in it, So that'll
be a tough one to go against, no doubt.

Speaker 3 (49:20):
And you didn't even mention Spags really, who is unbelievable
like he seems to at every crucial moment, whether it's
against the Niners in overtime, whether it's against the Bills
on that fourth down, he seems to know what button
to play.

Speaker 5 (49:36):
So we used to call those retirement blitzes like no, literally,
that's what, like you really shouldn't do that, like you
should be playing this conservative and as a quarterback. Are coaches,
we'd always say, hey, this guy's resume is so strong,
like if he never coaches another game and he like
buys a fishing boat and that's it for him, Like
he's good. You can't trust this guy. He might bring

(49:57):
a corner blitz on fourth and eight to win the game.
He's not afraid of anything. He'll dial up a retirement
blitz whenever he wants to. And it's much harder to
go as a quarterback. It's much harder to go up
against a guy that like, well that doesn't make sense
in this situation, but he doesn't care. He's got his
Super Bowl rings as a defensive coordinator. He's good.

Speaker 3 (50:19):
I just keep coming back to this whole Mahomes versus
Brady stuff. I don't listen. He's a teammate here Brady
obviously at Fox, but he's the goat to me, and
even if Mahomes wins three in a row, I can't
vault him over Brady yet.

Speaker 5 (50:32):
Can you listen? When I was growing up, it was
always Joe Montana, like Joe Montana was the guy, and
no one's gonna be Joe Montana. What he did in
Super Bowls, it was just ridiculous, right, It's like no
one's ever going to get there. And that was the talk,
you know. And there were heroes of mine when I
was growing to Michael Jordan, Walter Payton, like these guys
that he was just like, oh, no one's at that level.
And what did Brady do? Destroyed it? Like just just unbelievable,

(50:53):
put himself in rare air another place. And I remember
I was on TV, I was in the media when
Mahomes won his first one, and you know, all these
producers they want to say, Oh, can Mahomes get to
the Tom Brady level? Can you get those playoff wins?
Can he win that many Super Bowls? And I remember
a lot of like people, you know, I think maybe
even Steve Young at the time, was like, hey, just

(51:14):
chill out, yeah, like this made him enjoy his first one.
But then you sit and really evaluate the whole thing,
and you're like, man, if anyone could do it, like
this guy could do it. And at that time, it
just felt like how I felt like growing up about
Joe Montana. No one's going to get there, and then Brady, like,
no one's going to get there, and here's this guy.
You look at how old Patrick Mahomes is, how quarterbacks

(51:35):
can play later into their career. Now they protect the
quarterback in terms of hits and stuff like that. He
could definitely get there.

Speaker 3 (51:41):
So it's almost Lebron versus Jordan Ish and you know,
Lebron's not going to catch him in rings, but he
has everything else. Mahomes, He's probably not going to have
as many rings as Brady. Come on, we would agree
with that.

Speaker 5 (51:51):
Right yeah, probably, yeah, probably probably. But I'm just saying,
like when I was playing, like it wasn't even fathomable
that someone could even get close. Be like, come that's ridiculous, Like,
no one's getting there. It's kind of like like cal
Ripkins Street, you know, like or Brett Favre Street, like
of like, you know, consecutive games like, well, no one's
getting there, but you know, once upon a time or

(52:12):
once a generation, Like someone comes along and like they
make a run at it, and there's no doubt who
that guy is. It's Mahomes. And I would even say, like,
you know, Andy Reid and some of these coaches, like
they're they're coaching and like, hey, people want to talk
to Andy Reid, like hey, when are you going to retire?
He is never going to retire if fifteen's his quarterback, Like,
who would do that? Nobody?

Speaker 3 (52:33):
Two More so, you played for Pete Carroll. Obviously he
now has the Raiders job. I'm sure you saw the
news over the weekend. Chip Kelly has headed to the Raiders.
That's that's a major steal. I think it's a great hire.

Speaker 5 (52:44):
It's huge. Make sure, Yeah, I mean I love Pete Carroll.
You you know, Colin talks a lot about like if
you're hiring a coach, would you hire an ex's and
o's guy or would you hire a kind of a
culture builder? And one of the best culture builders in
the history of the game is Pete Carroll. Like he
did it at USC, he did it in Seattle. He
learned from his sort of early mistakes with the Jets
and the Patriots and became an amazing culture builder, and

(53:08):
you know he's got a ton of respect and as
do I for Chip Kelly. You know, Chip Kelly was
the head coach here at UCLA. My son committed to
play for chip Kelly, got a tremendous amount of respect.
Chip Kelly basically gave a big middle finger to the
college football you know, nil transfer portal, like just screw
up that, you know, the NCAA and his opinion has
had and said, I'm getting out of here, like I

(53:29):
don't want I don't want any part of this. I
just want to coach football. I don't want to deal
with all the other stuff. I want to get to
the NFL. He didn't have a window. Bill O'Brien leaves
Ohio State late to become the head coach at Boston College,
and what happens. Chip Kelly gets to go just install
his offense, call plays and they win the national championship
for Ryan Day. And I think football people understand. They

(53:51):
have a ton of respect for you know, yes, the
tempo and the passing game and all that stuff that
he was at Oregon, but he is a like kind
of an old school pull a guard, pull a tackle.
We're running trap misdirection and you know, if you're gonna
build it from the ground up. Foundationally with the run game,
Pete Carroll clearly feels like he's the guy, and I

(54:12):
think other people would agree.

Speaker 3 (54:13):
Obviously, they don't have a quarterback in no disrespect aide
O'Connell perdue guy. But I'm curious, do you think Sam
Darnold would fit. Do you think maybe they make a
play for Kirk Cousins assuming the Falcons want to move off, Like,
what do you think Pete and Chip would want at quarter?

Speaker 5 (54:28):
I think with Pete. Now obviously Tom Brady's involved as well, Yes,
you know, but like from my experiences with Pete, I
think Pete wants to kill a mosquito with a sledgehammer.
At certain positions, quarterback has to be won. Go back
to what he did when he got to Russell Wilson. Right,
he had paid Tavars Jackson a ton of money, they signed,
went out and find Matt Flint to like the largest

(54:49):
free agent contract of anybody that year, and then they
drafted a third rounder in Russell Wilson. I don't think
Pete cared which one of those guys was going to
become his starter. I don't think he cared, he wanted
he he loves this word compete, compete, compete, compete in
everything we do. And let's see, like who rises to
the top in this kind of a situation. And so

(55:09):
like I do believe in this in a you know,
the the money has to be a factor, right, But like,
I would not be surprised if he does the same thing,
kills a mosquito with a sledgehammer. Free agency drafts a
guy maybe someone that he already knows from his past,
like all of it. But again, he's also not a
guy that believes it needs to be built just around

(55:31):
the quarterback. He built that legion a boom before he
went and got his QB. So really, I.

Speaker 3 (55:37):
Don't know if they have enough pieces and the division
to compete. Like there's still probably a couple of years away.
I mean, Broncos probably pulled back a little.

Speaker 5 (55:44):
Listen, there's there are people who know Pete. They're gonna
want to coach for Pete, They're gonna want to play
for Pete. And there's something about that Raiders brand it matters.

Speaker 3 (55:51):
But didn't didn't they say the same about Antonio Pierce, Remember,
like Max Crosby, And then we're going to Devontae Adath.
We must keep him.

Speaker 5 (55:58):
You gotta have the support. You got to have the
support to go and invest in the quarterback position. I
don't think that that's something that the Las Vegas Raiders
ever did. If you don't have the quarterback, it's hard
to be successful. And it felt like they were always
pushing that you kind of kicking that can down the road.
But no, I listen, you know how I feel about Chip.
I think I've made that clear. But yeah, in terms
of Pete Carroll coming in day one culture building, it's

(56:21):
gonna be, hey, here's our goal. We're going to maximize
the ability that we have. And maybe it's not year
one that they're able to do some damage, but they're
going to build a foundation for doing damage in the future.

Speaker 3 (56:31):
Do you have a Super Bowl pick or do you
want to hold off on that?

Speaker 2 (56:33):
Uh?

Speaker 5 (56:33):
I mean I prefer to hold off, But I would
just say, like everything, as you study it, everything that
matters points to the Eagles. Everything great defense, you run
the ball, you have great you know weapons outside, You've
got a quarterback who's steady, been there, done it. Aside
from one fumble, he'd have a Super Bowl ring of
his own, but like just look at kind of like

(56:54):
through the years of what Brady, there's an X factor
that the Chiefs have, and so I think it would
be really really hard to go against the Chiefs even
though everything in your brain is telling you Philly should
be that team. Yeah, we'll see. I will say this, though.

Speaker 3 (57:07):
That sounds like a Chiefs pick of America.

Speaker 5 (57:09):
I would say, I would say, but listen, the story
of all the playoffs has been what turnover, specifically fumbles,
and it's not a round ball special teams, great players
not having a great day. It happens. One of the
things I learned from Pete Carroll, and this is a
Kobe Bryant thing. You can absolutely try too hard in

(57:31):
a big moment, in a big game, and it doesn't
make sense at first, but like if you try too hard,
you can actually play worse. And that's why Pete one
of his culture things is like I don't care what
it is. I don't care if it's rock, paper scissors,
per diam. This is everything we do as a competition
and a championship mindset. So when you get in that
big game, this is just what we do. And that's

(57:52):
how I feel about Patrick mahomes sometimes in terms of
those big moments, this is just what we do.

Speaker 3 (57:57):
Matt Hasselbeck, former three time Pro Bowl quarters about great stuff.
Thank you, Matt,