The Favorites - NFL Combine, Draft and Analytics with Cynthia Frelund

How did an illegal Toledo casino jumpstart the future of today's guest? Cynthia Frelund fills us in, as the NFL Network's original data expert joins Action Network hosts Chad Millman and Simon Hunter to talk NFL Draft mocks, the Combine in Indianapolis, her offseason awards for statistical phenomenons at her platform Number's Game and so much more. 

Also, the Favorites Podcast Live Show Event in Chicago is officially open to RSVP! This free event will take place for the Elite 8 March Madness games on Saturday March 29th at Joe's Bar on Weed Street in beautiful Chicago, Illinois. RSVP for free now to reserve your spot. #Herd #Volume

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to the Favorites, the podcast presented by About three
sixty five. We are part of the Volume Podcast Network.
I am Chad Nolman of the Action Network. Today is
our very first NFL episode of this long and winding
off season, but the NFL never stops. We will discuss
the upcoming NFL Draft, this week's combine in Indianapolis, the

(00:32):
latest league headlines. We're going to be joined by a
very special guest who will be on the ground in Indie,
but first live from our Tommy John Holmes Studios. I'm
joined as always by micro hos, my companion Michael Padre
might BFF professional better signon Hunter Hero.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
So I am ed, hello, chat, how are we doing?

Speaker 1 (00:51):
So good? So so good? Today is my wife's birthday
and I've been on it. Like I got the gifts.
I got my kids to get the gifts. I put
the candle in like cornbread muffin this morning that my

(01:12):
younger son had gone out to get while me and
my wife were at dinner last night. I got her
like I asked her when I went downstairs today, would
you like some lunch? And I brought her some lunch
like I am fucking nailing it today.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
The flowers on the way.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
I'm gonna get them later, as always flowers. I screwed
up on the flowers, like I realized this morning when
I got back from running an air that I didn't
do the flowers. So I'll get them. I got time,
good Man, not over Listen. Before we get to our guest, Simon,
we have to give Matt Mitchell his flowers, speaking of
because we had no idea how people were going to

(01:51):
react to his pre Civil War tales of gambling, mayhem
with Andrew Jackson, and Mutiny on the Sea. But I
did get a bunch of texts from friends about how
much they love them, and these are not hardcore gambling guys.
And we did get a lot of positive emails and

(02:11):
notes from listeners as well. We will be doing another
Gambling Stories episode in the future. Next month, We're going
to bring on David Schwartz, the author of Roll the
Bones that Matt liberally borrowed from. I've known David a
long time. He's been a professor at UNLV of gambling

(02:33):
history forever. He'll have some great, great stuff. How did
you feel it went, Simon? Were you happy with it?
Did you get response from anybody.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
I liked it, but you definitely saw the age dispiracy.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
I heard from people forty five and above, no one
for forty five and on there, so I would say
sounds about right for that type of episode.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
That's funny. All right, let's bring on our guests. She's
covered NFL data, NFL science, NFL everything with the NFL
Network for almost a decade. Before that, she was one
of the few people roaming the halls at ESPN smart
enough to understand the impending analytics revolution, and she worked

(03:18):
like crazy to get ahead of it. As I remember
from our many many conversations back at the world Wood
Worldwide Leader, she's the impresario of numbers Game with Cynthia Freeland.
Welcome to the show, Cynthia.

Speaker 4 (03:35):
That's a nice I'm gonna like. I'm very touched with
that intro. Thank you very much, very sweet. I also
have like a good, like a real gambling story about
my grandpa. I don't know if you've ever heard this
one do it, but you know he's now not with us,
but in the forties he went into an illegal casino
in Toledo, Ohio. I'm from Michigan and he's from near Detroit.

(03:55):
He won almost forty thousand dollars in the forties, which
was a lot playing craps. And he said, as he
tells the story, he heard like the shotgun thing after
and they're like, aren't you going to keep playing? He's like,
heck no, I'm out of here. He bought the farm.
He was very, very poor growing up. He bought the
farm that his family was working on. And he actually
bought a company that brought supplies for the tables as

(04:18):
the casinos were being built in Detroit. So he provided
the tables and the you know the kind of the
like all the different games at the time there Now
we they're very automated, but the time they were far
less automated. And that was how I got to go
to college, was because well I got a scholarship. But
my grandfather really helped my parents out with that stuff too.
So all because in the forties he played a bunch

(04:40):
of craps and he left when he knew when when
to walk away.

Speaker 5 (04:44):
If you will, you.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
Are the legacy of a gambling kingpin.

Speaker 4 (04:48):
I am the legacy. And he used to take me
to the horse track a lot, like unbeknownst to my parents,
so I spend a lot of time in a horse
track when I was little too all good?

Speaker 1 (04:58):
Is that how you got into it? Is that how
you even because I remember you and I used to
talk about this all the time at ESPN. There were
like four people who were interested in this stuff at ESPN,
and you weren't even on the broadcasting side, the digital side.
You were on the business side.

Speaker 4 (05:14):
Yeah, I was buying big data. I was buying tech
companies around big data.

Speaker 5 (05:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
Uh, explain to people like you know how you made
that transition and how you even got recognized that this
was a space you wanted to be in.

Speaker 5 (05:26):
Well.

Speaker 4 (05:27):
I worked at the League Office in two thousand and
eight to ten for Anthony Nodo, who was the CFO
at the time, and we were working on a project
called season inventory restructuring, a very interesting way of saying,
should it be eighteen games, seventeen games, et cetera. And
you know, we were going through different permutations of how
the bottom line would be affected in all of those

(05:47):
different scenarios. Spoiler alert, We're going to have eighteen games
pretty soon here. I don't think anyone's surprised or shocked
by that, but you know, at that time, I sat
with the competition committee, and these are Hall of famers.

Speaker 5 (06:00):
These are guys who are epic.

Speaker 4 (06:01):
Coaches, and you get to sit in this dark room
and you get to eat snacks and swear and watch
football and learn. And I got to ask any question
I wanted, what is that off ball linebacker.

Speaker 5 (06:12):
Supposed to be doing?

Speaker 4 (06:13):
And they told me, or they said, I don't know,
effing no, but like really great stuff. So when I
was first doing that, that's kind of when I realized
that there was well one I really liked it. I
thought it was interesting. And then I went to more school.
I learned how to code, and I realized I could
apply the same things I was using for financial models
to kind of sports models. And then I got a

(06:33):
chance to add a data science degree to my arsenal
of way too many degrees and whatever.

Speaker 5 (06:39):
I'm still paying for that. We're good.

Speaker 4 (06:41):
But ultimately I figured out that there was kind of
a way to be involved. And I really always liked
sports and trying to get an edge in any particular way.
I had a very big comfort level with risk taking.
I'm not scared of risk like many people are, and
I think part of that was because my grandpa was
I mean, he taught me on a bet on ponies

(07:02):
when I was little, so ultimately, I you know, I
just didn't It didn't feel like this thing that was like.

Speaker 5 (07:09):
Dark.

Speaker 4 (07:09):
It felt like fun and interesting, right, like buyer speed ratings,
like these are things my groom's like, this is crap,
this guy's good, this is like all this stuff, and
I just felt very comfortable with it. I don't know,
it was just it was common parlance in my house.
I guess that's just weird, but I don't know.

Speaker 1 (07:25):
It's wild to me. We've had so many conversations about this.
I had no idea that story about your grandfather.

Speaker 5 (07:30):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 4 (07:31):
And the even cooler part is he flew down to
Florida on a plane, you know when people used to
get dressed up and to meet with the wholesalers.

Speaker 5 (07:40):
He was there for a week.

Speaker 4 (07:41):
He ate breakfast at the same diner every single day
and had the same waitress every day. Asked her on
one date, then asked her parents if she could come
back up to Michigan, and my grandmother flew up from.

Speaker 5 (07:51):
Oh yeah, uh huh yeah. They got married from one
week in Florida.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
Crazy right, always losing his mind, right, now, yeah, that
is a crazy story.

Speaker 4 (08:05):
My grandpa was cool, Like he was like, that's a
cool man, like Alton he was his name was Alton,
but that's just a cool name. And uh yeah, you
know he was. He and he had like shotguns. We
had a woodpecker in a backyard when you're not really
supposed to shoot them.

Speaker 5 (08:18):
Shot it with a shotgun.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
Crazy anyways, that's that's unreal. Oh yeah, all right. So
now now you've you've moved on from betting the ponies, you.

Speaker 4 (08:31):
Escaped, moved on or added yeah at it, got it.

Speaker 5 (08:36):
I love the ponies.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
You escaped the uh shackles of ESPN executive dumb, you
found a home on air and writing you're writing is
fantastic at NFL network. You just put out your first
mock for twenty five. Explain to people, like, given every

(09:00):
thing you've just said about data, data science, how you
look at the NFL, how are you doing a mock?
How is it different than the way other people do
a mock?

Speaker 5 (09:08):
So I don't.

Speaker 4 (09:09):
I think the thought exercise and I think there's a
lot of different ways you could do a mock. A
lot of people look to try to get inside information
to divine what a place. You know, what's the rumor,
what's the prevailing rumor? Are the Giants going to take
all these things?

Speaker 1 (09:24):
Right?

Speaker 5 (09:24):
Instead?

Speaker 4 (09:25):
I said, all right, here's the actual free agent pool,
here are their ratings, here's the actual team's cap situation
as it stands, and their current draft pick status. In
for the sake of my editor and you appreciate this,
I'm not allowed to propose trades because I would literally
trade out every single pick am So no trades allowed.

(09:45):
But ultimately, what you're trying to say is is you're
trying to look at all the different ways that you
can say, how do we win this year? Given what
we know about the different like that you know the draft,
the order, what's the kind of the tree scenario? It
could be, what's the free agent scenario, like where will
oh I don't know Sam Darnold end up and how

(10:06):
might that impact them? So I don't typically have a
quarterback going to a team first, in large part because
the team that's typically picking first is one that needs
other things as well. Oh lines are a typical one
for me, the Titans. They're better served, at least at
this point, getting a bridge quarterback with one of the
free agents and then potentially taking in my mock Travis Hunter.

(10:27):
He's the most dynamic player, the one that's worth that
first pick overall. I know that you know, position wise,
quarterback is the most valuable position. However, in this this
is a bit of a flavor draft for quarterbacks. That's
how my model kind of reads it. So the flavor
isn't right for them because they could get Travis Hunter,
which would add more value to their bottom line this year.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
Right, let me do a quick interruption here of saying no,
Simon's going to want to jump in as a reminder
of the Favorites. Podcast is presented by a Bet three
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at one hundred and fifty dollars and bonus bets. When
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(11:10):
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(11:31):
Conditioned restrictions apply. Okay, before we dive in, very very quickly. Officially, officially,
you can RSVP for our free Favorites live show event
in my hometown of Chicago. This will be for the
Elite eight March Madness Games on Saturday, March twenty ninth.

(11:53):
It's at Joe's Bar on Weed Street. If you don't know,
this place is crazy popular and crazy cool, great music
venue in Chicago. Joe's Bar on Weed Street. It's near
near ish Lincoln Park in Chicago. Free event, free drinks,
free live show. Please rs VP to reserve your spot.

(12:15):
Just follow the link in the episode's description.

Speaker 5 (12:20):
Chat. You have to call it Joe's on Weed.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
I know, I know everybody.

Speaker 5 (12:24):
I call it a weed as.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
Someone who spent a lot of time in Chicago.

Speaker 5 (12:29):
Uh, it's a cool place.

Speaker 4 (12:31):
I can I can vouch for it, but you're but
like those in the know, I know You're supposed to
call it Joe's bar on Weed Street. No, it's Joe's
on Weed because it's more fun that way.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
Well, it is Joe's on weed. And we actually had
a conversation with the Slack Channel. Can we say Joe's
on weed? Is our sponsor going to get upset about
saying Joe's on weed? And then Matt Mitchell had to explain, No,
it's called Joe's on Weed because it's on Weed Street.
So yes, for those in the know, for those in Chicago,
we're talking about Joe's on weed.

Speaker 5 (12:57):
Don't get mad, sponsor. That's great. It's more fun. It's cool.

Speaker 1 (13:03):
It's cool. Simon loves it.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
Weed is tight.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
Simon, what's your take on Travis Hunter? What is your
take on Cynthia's take that this is a flavor draft
for quarterbacks?

Speaker 3 (13:20):
I mean, you know my view on it chat. I'm
so QB heavy when it comes to drafts. I remember
two three years ago when we were talking about Houston,
they were in talks of just taking Will Anderson and
not taking a quarterback, and I said, this is a
failure of an organization if they don't take Bryce Young
C J.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
Anthony Richardson.

Speaker 3 (13:38):
They're just not a real organization because you just can't
keep kicking the can down the road, like eventually you
just got to pull the trigger. The Browns had kicked
the count down the road for years and then they
took Baker and then they said, you know what, Baker
is not good enough. We're gonna bring in someone else.
These are the organizations that just don't make it in
this league. There's these organizations that are always in the
bottom of the league. So I get her points like

(14:01):
I'm when I'm going through this draft class, there really
is opinion based like there isn't a Caleb Williams at
Jaden Daniels or even you know what you want to say,
Like there wasn't really a competition. Jadan Denil's been number
one pick last year, but there were guys who I respected.
It had Jaden Daniels of the higher grade than Caleb
Williams this year.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
It's really I got all the scouts. I've talked to Chad.

Speaker 3 (14:23):
It's a really hard back and forth between guys' opinions.
And then because of the Elder fre agency, like we've
heard all the rumors about Stafford, We've heard about Kirk Cousins.
So this is a really unique, tough draft class where
you know, if you don't love the guys at the top,
why wouldn't you just trade down and go go after
one of these vets, right Because there is something to

(14:44):
take away from getting these vets. So for someone like
me that I just never passed in the quarterback, if
I need a quarterback and I'm one of these teams,
you just ripped the bandit off and take one.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
Like you know, cam Ward, is he perfect?

Speaker 1 (14:55):
No?

Speaker 3 (14:55):
Could he be a legit ten to fifteen year start
in this league? Yes, this kid has some amazing tools.
So it's really interesting breaking it all down where there's
a couple of athletes, one in a lifetime type of
athletes at the top of the draft that teams could
take or can they just take on one of these
quarterbacks that they have major questions about, but they just
need to do it. So I'm with her, Like, if
I was one of these gms and I was stuck

(15:15):
in one of these spots, I honestly probably would if
I'm trying to save my own ass, to save my job,
I probably would look towards the Stafford's Kirk cousins and
then hopefully take a quarterback next year because there's just
a lot of unknowns about these guys at the very
top of the draft right now.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
Well, look what's interesting. Go ahead, Cynthia.

Speaker 4 (15:31):
I was gonna say, until the Senior Bowl strat my
optimal strategy would have been to get a top end
guy that's not a quarterback first round, get the free
agent veteran, and then get like a Jackson Dart. But
Jackson Dart played himself too highly in the Senior Bowl,
and now he won't be available for a low enough
cost for that optimal strategy to work. So maybe there'll

(15:54):
be another guy who could potentially be this nice. I
think you should really be drafting quarterback probably every season,
maybe not first overall, but you know, you know, in
subsequent rounds. But again, these guys are playing themselves out
of my They're not in my good area. You know,
get stay in the fourth round, buddy, you're fine. Then
you actually be in a much better position long term.

(16:16):
And you don't have five years till you get paid.
You only have four.

Speaker 5 (16:18):
Just saying, but you know whatever, Well.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
It's interesting when you talk about there is no Jaden
Daniels or Caleb Williams, or even any kind of consensus.
It does feel like there's some consensus building about around
cam Ward being, you know, a little bit further ahead
of Shador Sanders. Cynthia, you had Sanders ninth I think
going to the Saints, and that was until recently one

(16:45):
of the lower options for Sanders, and then CBS came
out this week and said they had him at twenty
second in their mock draft. Mel Kiper has him at
number three. Give me your thoughts on how you end
up with him, where he is and what you're hearing
around the league about that delta between cam Woard and

(17:07):
Shagar Sanders.

Speaker 4 (17:09):
So, to start with, you know Shador Sanders specifically, I think,
like number one, nobody questions that he's a winner. We
know he's won at every level. We know his dad's
been there to help him with he has the pedigree.
There's a lot of things that are working in his favor.
I talked to him at Honors and he was very
mad at me for making.

Speaker 5 (17:25):
Him go nice.

Speaker 4 (17:26):
But there's a couple of things that are are the
metrics are pointing me in the direction of Shador needing
a little bit more help than a Jadeen Daniels. I
was one of those people who had Jadan Daniels higher
because I believe in this modern league right now, you
need to be able to throw on the run and
on the run being dictated as like, you know, next

(17:47):
gen stats has it like eight miles an hour. I'm
going to go with six miles an hour. That's the
break point I found. But that's like a legit run.
That's a ten minute mile, right If you're running that fast,
you have to be able to throw on the run.
You have to be able to get out of dicey
situations because O lines aren't There aren't very many good
O lines, and if you're a quarterback, I mean Jane
DALs went to an O line that wasn't very good

(18:08):
in Washington and was able to make the most of it.
Point being, where's Caleb Williams who had a lot of
upside for me? He wasn't able to change directions, he
didn't have that mobility. We didn't see it at USC
and then he gets clobbered. But you know, the Bears
O line was no good. I'm sorry, I don't mean
to be I don't think I'm telling you something that.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
Ex or facts. There's no alternative facts.

Speaker 5 (18:27):
Right, I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. It's not.

Speaker 4 (18:29):
It's not an opinion, right, I'm not. He was under
a ton of pressure, much harder for him. So in
this case, Shador Sanders to me, was a much better
pairing with the Saints where potentially he had. It's a
better O line situation for him, especially in the middle
of that O line than some of these other choices.
The Giants O line I don't like one bit. You know,
I don't think I'm alone in that. The Raiders do

(18:50):
they have.

Speaker 5 (18:51):
An interior O line.

Speaker 4 (18:52):
I'm Jackson Powers Jones from last year could maybe take
a step forward. But again, I don't know. The run
game was non existing last year. I don't know if
Chip Kelly can fix that, but whatever. And you know,
point being is when he has a little bit more,
just a little bit more help, a field stretching wide
receiver situation, a number of them, and a good running back,

(19:12):
that is a great place for a rookie quarterback to land.
So I've told him, I'm like, listen, think about the
opportunity there. You have Alvin Kamara, Chris O love it
like you get some people to throw to. You go
to the Giants and the run game is not great.
You have a great Malik neighbors, sure, but other than that,
it's it's all you man.

Speaker 5 (19:33):
Like go to a good situation.

Speaker 4 (19:34):
So that was kind of how that worked out for
Shador because he doesn't have as many of the it's
not to say he can't do it, he just hasn't
had to, so I don't his resume is incomplete in
those marks that he doesn't have that. Cam Ward has
a little bit more of those marks to me, compared
to other people. He would have been maybe fourth or
fifth last year cam Ward would have been in terms
of quarterback rankings for me, and in prior seasons maybe

(19:57):
as high as third. He's first in and this one
that's great for him, good for him, Like scarcity is
is excellent for him.

Speaker 5 (20:05):
He just his.

Speaker 4 (20:05):
Resume is strangely incomplete as well. So to me, it's
not as much about it's just more projection for these
two top guys than it is actual seeing them do
the things that matter. And I think you now, in
this league, you must be able to throw hard with
velocity on the run, otherwise it's going to be really,
really hard for you to succeed.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
Simon.

Speaker 3 (20:28):
Yeah, I would say it's been interesting Chad talking all
the different scouts. Like from my perspective, mel Kiper talked
to the same scout I talked to on the Giants,
which is they're all in on Sanders. Apparently they love
this kid, they love his playing style. And then I'll
talk to you know, a Scott I of respect for
Arizona and he's joking me his ceiling for Sanders is
Gino Smith on Seattle right now. Like he's like to me,
he's a late first second round pick. And that's the

(20:51):
trouble with this draft class. It's just really heavy opinion
based and what you're looking for. Like cam Ward, he
a lot of guys view him as very smooth. The
way he plays his style that reminds them of a
less athletic Obviously he's still incredibly athletic, but a less
athletic Lamar like that confidence, that smooth, that flick of
the wrist downfield passing. That's what cam Ward is. He's

(21:12):
one of the better athletes I've seen come out and
I viewed as you know, the bump down he's getting
chat is if he's not he didn't play in the SEC.
He didn't play in the Big ten. Like that's a
real thing. When you talk to these NFL scouts now,
is it's all about what competition they are playing against.
We've seen it time and time again. These quarterbacks that
play in the ACC. They might be good, but you're
gonna see them come in and struggle.

Speaker 2 (21:33):
Right.

Speaker 3 (21:33):
It's just that's just facts, like getting caught up to
the real NFL speed you're never going to see at
the ACC, and we've seen it now, Like you know,
I got caught with that. I was crazy high on
Trevor Lawrence. We've seen Trevor Lawrence have some really tough
learning curve since coming out and it's been you know,
five years now, and he's never developed in what we expect.
So that, to me is what's working against cam Ward

(21:54):
right now, is that he doesn't he played against people
view as lesser of the end competition where Sanders either
love him or don't like. To me, what I'm hearing
from the Giants is they love the kid. They don't care,
like they don't care what people view them as with
the rankings, as like they're all in on this kid.
They believe in them. They believe him as a leader
of men that's going to be their guy. So it's
me orter to see how it plays out these next

(22:15):
couple of months where it's like, if the Giants won them,
they might have go up and get them because other
teams when I have the same view as him, So
pretty wild that the Giants are in the third spot
are kind of dictating how that top of the draft
might go if they want to move up with Tennessee
and take who they believe in as Sanders at number one.

Speaker 4 (22:31):
If I'm Joe Shane, if I'm Joe Shane, i am
telling everyone and their brother that I'm.

Speaker 5 (22:37):
Taking Matthew Stafford.

Speaker 4 (22:38):
Maybe it's a lie, but I'm I'm bluffing, or at
least potentially considering bluffing, because the truth is is I
feel like, for whatever reason, Giant scouts tell way too
much of the truth and everyone else are lying liars
who lie. So I need him to bluff for me
a lot more like I'm hoping to go to the
combine and hear nothing but Stafford to Giants. Stafford to Giants,

(23:02):
they need to give us, like stop telling.

Speaker 5 (23:04):
Everybody who you want. Stop it.

Speaker 4 (23:06):
You lose all your leverage and stop being so like, yeah,
just I want I don't want them to be bad.
One of my good friends played for the Giants a
million years ago, Matthias q Nuka, still one of my
best friends to this day. He won two Super Bowls
with them, and good lord like they it's just been like,
I want them, I don't want I want everyone to
be good. I'm a Lions fan, so of course any right, like,
but I'd like to see I'd like to see this

(23:29):
not be get telegraphed again this year.

Speaker 5 (23:32):
I just feel like they're always telegraphed.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
You had a line in your mock for Travis Hunter.
That's said, and then my question isn't okay you got
Travis Hunter going number one to the Titans. My question
is Travis Hunter comes off the board no later than
third overall in eighty one percent of one million simulations.

(23:56):
One million simulations. Explain that to me.

Speaker 4 (24:00):
So as of right now, you can what you can
do is you can take historical reference points for tennessee
the brain trust that's now in charge of them, with
kind of historical situations like this, you can you can
take off the free agencies, the free agents excuse me,
and then you can take all of the different ways

(24:21):
that this could play out from a trade standpoint as
of right now. Now, if somebody, if the Giants make
a move and telegraph that they're taking a quarterback right away,
it brings it down, but only to about seventy. So
right now he goes very very very very high. Like
it's kind of amazing how high him and Abdul Carter

(24:41):
are both projected to go for me based on just
what we what's known about free agency. And then of
course the LSU offensive tackle like that's going to be
a good one too, because this is a terrible oline class.
Like we think it's a weird we think it's a
weird quarterback class. It's a very light, very light offensive

(25:04):
lineman class. And so point being is that there's just
so many Travis Hunter is such a rare athlete, and
I actually think combine wise, later this week, maybe we'll
hear a little bit more about potentially him as a
wide receiver. I don't you know, I think we're here
a lot about corner, but he projects to be a
great wide receiver for me as well, like great, great,

(25:25):
like maybe even better than corner.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
Like why if you're Travis Hunter. Why wouldn't you play
the position you're equally good at both. You're a potentially
once in a generation athlete, you just won the Heisman
as a essentially a two way player. Why wouldn't you
go to receiver like that? To me is where the
most money is.

Speaker 4 (25:46):
It's no doubt where the most money is. But it's
possible that. I mean, he's playing for Dion, right, and like,
you know, potentially you see an idol.

Speaker 5 (25:54):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (25:54):
I'm trying to understand it, but maybe it's I don't
know if it were me and that it's my client,
I'm like, you're playing wide receiver, my friend. That's a
corner he does you can't catch. That's what that's the common.

Speaker 5 (26:07):
You know, I don't. I don't know.

Speaker 4 (26:09):
I'm not sure why he wouldn't. I think he will,
That's I guess. My point is, I think that we'll
see a little bit more of that combine chatter. I
think that's one thing I expect to hear you.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
What will you look for when you get to the combine,
when someone like he was going to the combine, What
is the value of it for you?

Speaker 4 (26:28):
Well, obviously you know from from a the drill standpoint,
it's a it's a gut check to see if all
of the stuff that we saw in field pans out.
So as long as you're within the proper ranges for
certain things that your position, check the box.

Speaker 5 (26:42):
Who cares right?

Speaker 4 (26:44):
Sometimes if someone runs really fast, we know it doesn't
really always translate to awesomeness, but if someone's out of
range slow, that's a reason to go back and double
check your work to see if what happened on the field,
if you're missing something right. Small school guys that fall
into ranges that are maybe better than you expected, that's

(27:05):
another place to look for potential. You know, day two
three steals. But the biggest benefit of being there is
going through the process and the interview part meaning can
you go through? Can you it's a rigorous process, like
you're poked, you're prodded, you're you know, these kids now
are millionaires before they're even there.

Speaker 5 (27:26):
Used to be nice.

Speaker 4 (27:27):
Now they're already millionaires and they're already whatever. So can
you go through this process and respect the ritual of it?
Because those scouts they work so freaking hard, they're gone
two hundred and fifty days a year, Like, can you
be nice, like, can you just be the person who's
a good teammate? Can you handle being nice to the
hotel staff? Can you are you not a jerk? Basically?

(27:49):
And how do those interviews go? And then for me specifically,
the other value is trying to kind of understand where
people's heads are at in terms of free agents and
of course if they're going to trade draft positions, what
they're really focusing on. And my personal favorite is kind
of who are there later round? Like who are the
guys of? Like I love this kid, blahlah blah blah,

(28:11):
who's going to be a late round steal? So it's
less about the on field stuff. That's just like a
check the box gut, like you is what you put
on the field?

Speaker 5 (28:19):
Who you are?

Speaker 4 (28:20):
Now? Did you respect the process of training and doing
all the things that are part of this, like whether
or not you think the NFL could be innovated and
you know, made more modern, which we all could find
ways to do that. You have to respect the process
of this. This is what these guys are, those hand
timer guys with the forties, like they'll never go away
even though we have way better ways to do it now.

(28:42):
It's part of the process. It's part of what people
love about it. The ritual of it matters. Can you
go through it and be that guy? Are you a
good teammate?

Speaker 1 (28:50):
But how much access are you actually getting? Like how
much of this do you get extra access because you're
with NFL Network? Are you getting more time with players?
Like how much you can really glean from their personalities?
And how much of this is just shoe leather. You're
talking to the people helping with bags and at the
front desk and the servers and things like that.

Speaker 4 (29:12):
Well, we've started doing We've turned the whole combine into
an event, so fans are now able to come watch.
And the good news about that is I get to
stand on the field and as they're done. I mean
it's a grueling day for me as well, you know,
six hours of keeping the fans excited. These are amazing fans,
by the way, Like the fact that they come out

(29:32):
the way that they do and show up just amazing.
But you know, getting to see how someone reacts when
they don't, like those little micro expressions when they don't
run the forty that they expected, or when they do
or when who's talking to whom? Who do the guys gravitate.
I get to stand right on the field with them.
So while it may not go into an implicit model
that I make, I do feel like I get a

(29:54):
good first hand sense of how these guys interact with
one another because being on the field with them, see
who needs a hug? You can see who's like, you know,
offering the hug to someone else, Like you know, the
who's who's the who's the the dude? You know that dude,
Like you can't model that. That's not that's not quantitative
at all, but the qualitative aspects, and you know, you

(30:14):
can see who's gravitating, Like all of the guys last
year loved Jade Daniel. They were like laughing all like
you can see who's having fun with who, who's alone
or who's not who's you know, it doesn't necessarily mean anything,
but it does help you feel like you understand them
a little bit better. And of course then there's you know,
the shoe leather part and talking to agents and trying

(30:35):
to get a good sense of you kind of know
who you know this too, Chad, like you know to Simon,
like who's the who, Who's like blowing smoke up your bump,
like and who's which agents are? Like my god, blah
blah blah, and you're like whatever, dude, Like okay, cool, right,
But yeah, it's a it's a it's a long week,
but it's it's my favorite week of the whole NFL season, Simon.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
As usual, I was pondering fifth century Greek philosophy earlier today,
specifically the parable of Hercules at the Crossroads. In this tale,
a young Hercules approaches a fork in the road, and
at each path stands a beautiful figure. One represents virtue,

(31:22):
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Speaker 2 (32:26):
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That's Tommy John dot com slash Favorites. I look forward
to next episode where we will go very deep on
Marcus Aurelius and his writings. It's going to be super exciting. Uh, Simon,

(32:54):
I think you wanted to ask Cynthia the next question.

Speaker 3 (32:57):
Yes, it was interesting, Like when I found out we
were having you on as a guest. I don't listen
too many football shows during the season because I don't
want to be one of those people that people are like, oh,
you got your picks from this show where I even
start copying in your mannerisms, Like there's so many things
I already copy from people that you know, the stable
words that wouldn't even mean to right, it's it's brutal.

Speaker 2 (33:15):
So listen to your show.

Speaker 3 (33:17):
I noticed Man versus Machine you tend to go with
the favorites more often than you go with betting dogs. Now,
is that unique to twenty twenty four because me and
Chad we got punished, Like we've talked at Nugema about it,
but we basically didn't adjust to last season where the
kickoff rules did change football. Right, We all can agree now,
especially after the season, that it made teams more willing

(33:39):
to go forward on fourth, you know, fourth down, even
from their own forty than we've ever seen in his
circle data looking back at the NFL. Is that so
was that unique to the last season or do you
always tend to go towards the favorites Because I know
professionals who you know, they might only bet thirteen fourteen
bets a total a year and they're all beyond favorites.
But you were doing three bets a weekend. So like

(34:00):
on me and chat Shore, we go dog kavy because
we have to bet five a weekend, which is fucking brutal.
You're in the same spot. You're having to bet three
every weekend. Is that easier for you to go more
favorite or do you just played as the model comes
to you, just play whatever is best showing best value
for you.

Speaker 4 (34:15):
Well, we have to, so I actually put all my
picks out for everything, and then I put confidence levels
on anything so you can look at like you can
go through how confident I'm about favorite against the spread, totals, etc.

Speaker 5 (34:30):
It was terrible on totals this year, just sort quick.

Speaker 4 (34:33):
But this year favorites were you know, I got a
chance to do preseason with the Broncos and Sean Payton
is one of those coaches who really does a good
job of explaining how special teams can impact everything. So
it really did help in teaching my model. And I
say teaching like this because a lot of the things

(34:54):
that he said to look for, Like, I run a
model that's what's been historically right for eight seasons. Eight
seasons is about right, and then I look at what's
tracking this season, and then I look to see who's
I basically ask coaches what the heck's going on, and
then they help me understand what the D is. So
this year favorites happen to be better because of field position.
I mean, just in general, field position was a better

(35:17):
strategy for teams with better offenses, like it just worked
out better. Look at the Lions, especially when they lost everyone,
but you know, on their defense, so that was what happened.
I mean, a man versus machine. I'm just basically trying
to beat Greg. So I know what all of Greg's
positions are because we're on another show called gamed A
View together, so we see, I see everything he's gonna say,

(35:39):
and I just pick three to try to beat him.
So it's really not that one's really not that. One's
just like, really me trying to beat Greg. And you know,
we do good value picks. But because everything's out there
and everyone can you can see where I land on
all of it, then I feel like it's more fun
to try to kick Greg's But just just because you know,
I'm not competitive at all.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
You know. It's interesting you mentioned the Peyton stuff, and
Simon and I have talked about the field position and
the kickoff rules and how we're going to think about
the kickoff rules and field position and fourth Town variants
and be more aggressive as we go forward in the
next season. What did Peyton explain to you you were

(36:22):
able to incorporate that maybe made you think differently going
into last season.

Speaker 4 (36:27):
That this season people who are riskier on offense will
get paid off, and then going into next season it'll
probably it will reverse because defenses will catch up. So,
you know, teams like obviously you know the Lions were
fourth down team, the Eagles fourth down team, et cetera,
et cetera, like all of those teams you have to
He basically was like give he would say in his terms,

(36:49):
it's like give him a plus one, not one point,
like just he just means like, give them a little
bit of an advantage, right, so give them a plus one.

Speaker 5 (36:56):
And it did tend to play out like that.

Speaker 4 (36:58):
I guess you know, injuries of course impact how that's
kind of handled. But he was based, he was He
took me through this whole thing about you know, when
is the strategy like are you really going to give
Patrick Mahomes someone he has to deal with, right?

Speaker 5 (37:11):
Why are you really going to who cares?

Speaker 4 (37:13):
Like why not go for it if you're on this
specific the yard line, right, Like, if you're gonna why
give make Patrick Mahomes go ninety freaking yards? Don't take
three points and you know, give him now only sixty
yards or whatever, sixty five yards even whatever, give him
make him go ninety because that changes the calculus. You

(37:35):
are more likely to get the ball back on a
favorable side for you, so then you could kick it
the second time, depending on how many times your possessions are,
Like every coach is a little bit different strategy with
how many possessions you should kick versus not. But give
make Patrick Mahomes go ninety yards. Just that's the That
was kind of the best way to summarize it, right,
make make if you're in the AFC West, specifically make

(37:56):
them go the whole way. Now, if you're playing the Raiders,
kick the field goal. But if you're playing but if
you're playing Justin Herbert, if you're playing Patrick Malmes, you're
gonna make them go ninety yards.

Speaker 1 (38:07):
Yeah, It's like, Simon, why why did teams need an
offseason to adjust for this? Cynthia just said, like, it'll
be different this year because Will will figure it out.
Why can't they figure it out in the middle of
the season.

Speaker 2 (38:22):
They'll try to Chad.

Speaker 3 (38:23):
But I think to what she's touching on a little
bit as well is that d NFL has just changed
so much. Chad, We're like, I not that I give
you shit about it, but there's a lot of fans
out there that missed the Payton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew
Brees throwing over five thousand yards in a season.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
D NFL has just gone away from that completely.

Speaker 3 (38:39):
And we've seen the involvement of the running quarterback and
she even touched on it there where it's throwing her.
It's changed the game in so many different ways. The
biggest one to me is that these teams with young quarterbacks,
they will go from a fourth down Bo Knicks took
that Denver team to the playoffs?

Speaker 2 (38:55):
Why fourth down success rate? Washington?

Speaker 3 (38:58):
If you go back and look at their numbers, they
would never have made the playoffs if they weren't so
high variants on going for it on fourth down once again,
a young running quarterback.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
So that's also something I've thrown into my model and.

Speaker 3 (39:09):
We've talked about where it's like the game has changed.
It's no longer if it's fourth and three automatic punt, right,
if it's I mean, teams on fourth and five are
going for it now because of the high variance of
what you just talked about. It it's like, do you want
to make them drive ninety or do you want to
kick a three here and make mahomes go sixty sixty
five yards where it's like you're already dead. So that's

(39:31):
also something where in the middle of the season chat,
I think they did try to adjust it, but it
didn't matter, right because we saw Jamie Daniels still was
going seven of eight on fourth down and back to
back games like just the craziest high variance because these
teams couldn't stop that QB run pass option because he's
young quarterbacks so athletics. So that's also part of it, brother,
where it's like it's not just a drop back guy

(39:52):
where you know, if you can get your four guys
head of steam, you know they're gonna be dropping back
around fourth and four to run it. I mean even
the Eagles would run it on you know, already in
seven thirty and eight with Saquon just to get in
a fourth and three position. So we've just seen the
game has evolved and changed so much now with the
way defenses play that you know, these running quarterbacks, I mean,
it's been a major shift. Like a gay we talked

(40:13):
to the very top. You know, Dart is a good quarterback.
He's a pocket passer ten years ago, Chad, he's probably
a top five, top ten pick right now. You know,
he's probably gonna be back towards the end of the
first round just because he's not this young stud athlete.
So yeah, the NFL, the way it's evolved, it's just
totally different now where you know, fourth and three it's
the same as being third and one or third and two.

(40:35):
Like that's how these coaches kind of view it right now.
And like we and you talked about, we tried to
adjust it. I mean, obviously it worked out much better
for us. We did pretty well in the playoffs, so
we did catch up to it. But it really was
heavy favorites, like the That's that's what me and you
talked about all year. It was that we couldn't adjust
to the favorites. It was just so overwhelming. What was
seventy five percent after Week eleven, Chad, that the favorites covered?

(40:58):
I mean, you can't adjust to that. We bet dog.
So for me and you personally, that was brutal. But
I would say to the NFL, they're gonna be make adjustments.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
What those justices are.

Speaker 3 (41:08):
I don't know yet, because to me, it's how do
you stop these running quarterbacks they're I mean, you can
say the Eagles are one of the best defensive football.
Jane Daniels was basically having his way with that defense
in the playoffs. Like his teammates failed him, not Jane Daniels.
So the new NFL, man, it's tough, like these these weapons,
I mean, the everyone's copying Lamar style. It's totally changing

(41:29):
the game. And we just saw Jalen Hurts. You know,
he set the record for seventy rushing yards in the
Super Bowl two years ago. He broke it this past year,
growing for seventy two. Like we're living in the moment
of an involved quarterback position. It's all about can your
model adjust to it? And Sam goes for the NFL,
can these head coaches adjust to it? Which I can't wait.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
I mean, we just.

Speaker 3 (41:49):
Saw all these guys, all these guys talking about like
she says she's going to the combine, She's gonna hear
so much conversation about the Zach thing we're talking about,
Like I can only imagine every guy in the bars
having drinks. They're saying, how the fuck do we stop
these guys? Like, how do we stop Jane Daniels in
the future, because that's that to me, that's the biggest
question mark right now is how do you stop this
new rushing West Coast offense these quarterbacks play.

Speaker 4 (42:12):
So I have a stat for you that's actually really interesting.
Just as a there are some imperfections. I'm not putting
to pretend rushing yards over expected or expecting rush yards
is perfect, I'm not. But directionally I think it is
actually quite telling a running back their baseline. Let's just
you know, let's just say it's adjusted by routes, so
inside and outside are are taken separately. However, an expected

(42:36):
gain for a running back on any early down, first
or second down is four point two yards. So that's
an expected gain on a running back, right for a
running back. For a quarterback on any down, including third down,
it's six yards. So that's exactly what you're saying. So
at four point two versus six, that's a massively different
value proposition than we've seen in the past.

Speaker 5 (42:58):
So that's the first thing.

Speaker 4 (43:00):
The second thing is the good news for people who
love defense, of which I am one of them. If
I could play any position, I would be Brian Branch.
I would be a really big badass safety. That would
be my that's my that's my spirit animal right there.
But Chancellor, exactly, I want to like, that's what I
want to do right like that.

Speaker 5 (43:18):
It's so not my personality.

Speaker 4 (43:20):
I'm such a whim but in my head, that's what
I that's what I that's what I'm manifesting or whatever.
But this is a great defensive front class. So the
D line here, there's a lot of good defensive tackles.
There's a lot of good rushers. I'm not going to
just say edge because they're not coming from the edge.
And now that we've seen I think, you know, the
pendulum will swing.

Speaker 5 (43:40):
Back and forth. Right.

Speaker 4 (43:41):
We will see We've seen people run duo, which is
you know what your high school does, like just running
right up through the center.

Speaker 5 (43:48):
That was it's kind of coming back.

Speaker 4 (43:50):
So while the quarterback position feels like, you know, we
have to evolve really a lot, they are also getting
paid more so potentially we're asking them to do to
maybe that's part of it. But I think we will
see some pocket passing. If you can get the right
line and you can get the right receivers, that could
be a good way to do it. Joe Burrow I

(44:10):
know he can run, but Joe Burrow to me, is
a little bit of a It's weird to call him
a throwback, but he feels a little bit more like
a throwback given the state of the NFL right now.
If the difference, if he doesn't get Jamar and Tea back,
it's going to be crazy so or something that level.
So point bing is, I think we will see the shift.
The pendulum will shift back a little bit, and maybe

(44:31):
it starts with some of these guys in this defensive
class living up to expectations.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
Have you, guys, either of you already started thinking about
your models for next year, how you'll make adjustments and
what specifically are you researching That is new, Cynthia, you're
shaking your head.

Speaker 5 (44:55):
Off Ball linebackers have been before.

Speaker 4 (44:58):
It was like Fred Warner and that's it, Like, I mean,
there was a few more, but off ball linebackers to
me are the They're really hard for non football, Like
you can see what a wide receiver does, like I
know what the running backs supposed to do. I'm pretty
sure I know what the quarterback is supposed to do too,
maybe not on each play, but just in general. I
don't know where Fred Warner is supposed to be in

(45:19):
specific play, I don't know where Jack Campbell is supposed
to be.

Speaker 5 (45:22):
I don't know where.

Speaker 4 (45:23):
Oh, I don't know a certain Eagles player who's probably
gonna get paid a lot of money and made a
huge difference for that defense. So to me, a lot
of the a lot of the kind of the way
that no one's playing based defense anymore.

Speaker 5 (45:37):
Who's playing with?

Speaker 4 (45:38):
How many defensive backs, A lot of nickel, a lot
of dime, all these different I'm very curious to see
where the advantages lie. Like, I think the Colts will
be a much better defense this year getting lou An
Arumo there, and I think that will then impact how
we view all of these different So I'm taking I'm
taking it from the center of the defense and projecting
it backwards as my new flare the year. Again, I

(46:01):
have all my other models, but I'm starting with kind
of what is the middle who what is the you know,
center fielder of the defense doing, and then trying to
figure out if that is a different way I could
look at it that would be more strategic this year,
given that I do believe the premise that defenses will
have an advantage in the season after offensive having such
a big one last year.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
How about you, samon.

Speaker 3 (46:23):
Uh, It's tough because right now, like I did make
adjustments that in the playoffs, and I mean, my model it.

Speaker 2 (46:29):
Was a dream and it's ten to zero to one
end the season. I'm model on side, so like, hell, yes,
better than that, brother.

Speaker 3 (46:35):
So I'm basically you can't in a spot where I'll
basically just wait, you know this, this is another part
of our lives, this part of the season. It's just
it's all draft right now. Then I'll get into the
futures market and then you know it is she had
they released that Week one schedule and I'll dive into that,
but really I need to basically do what Cynthia is

(46:55):
talking about. It's like I need to talk to different scouts,
different guys on coaching staffs, trust and rely on, and
they'll give me the info about what these teams are
gonna try to adjust for. But that, honestly, brother, won't
be until July August. Like that's really when the good
stuff starts coming out, because these guys have been working
at all winter, just stuck in their homes, on their
couches and just grinding tape. And trying to figure out

(47:16):
how to do it, and then with excitement themselves, they
can't help themselves. They'll leak me the information come July
and August just because they want to be viewed as
the smartest guy in the room. And I'm more than
happy to sit there and not say wording and just
listen and take it all in. So I don't really
have a good answer for it right now, but I
definitely know that there is gonna be some major adjustments
coming just because we saw for the first time it

(47:37):
feels like ten to fifteen years the rebirth of the
running back. We saw that really change football this season.
And the best teams. I mean, we throw the Chiefs
out because they don't make sense in any way, but
the Ravens.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
The Bills, the Eagles, the.

Speaker 3 (47:51):
Lions, they all had really amazing run games and that
would to me was what set them apart from all
these other teams why they were all so dominant the
regular season this year. So that's something I really can't
wait to dive into this offseason, is what was that adjustment?

Speaker 2 (48:05):
Was it simply because of the too high safety? Here?

Speaker 3 (48:07):
Is there more I'm not read into it about why
the running back has had such a rebirth these last
couple of years, where this year, I mean, you can't lie.
It dictated this entire season. Saquan com from the Giants
to the Eagles changed this entire season. So I really
cannot wait to dive into it because it's it's crazy
how the running back has come back such with vengeance

(48:27):
at this point where I mean it was left for
dead n even three four years ago. I mean people
just completely poop poo the running back position. I love
that it's really back now, So I really can't wait
to dive into that.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
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code Favorites. Let's do a quick awards section of questions, right,

(50:08):
Cynthia on Numbers Game, you just did a huge award ceremony.
Can you explain by the way Numbers Game? Go to
the website, Go to the YouTube channel. This was on
last week. Last week's episode, you gave out some awards.

(50:30):
Explain the offensive SOS Award and tell our audience who
won it.

Speaker 5 (50:37):
Well.

Speaker 4 (50:38):
First of all, I wanted to do awards. I did
two things with the awards. Number one, I wanted to
do some awards for people who weren't necessarily you know,
like there was a lot of questions about who should
be the MVP. It felt like this big compromise between
like MVP Offensive Player of the Year and then like,
well Lamar won it twice, we're just gonna be Like

(51:00):
I felt like there was some sort of like I
don't know, like we you with your kids, it's like,
well you got you got this treat, so now you
get this like it's your turn this time, and you
know whatever. So I wanted to try to like do
it with completely just math. And then I also thought
that there should be some different awards. For example, I
thought that there should be an O Line Award. I
thought that there should be like, you know, Who's helping

(51:24):
who this SOS Award like save our Ship, Like you know,
like who who is like really help helping out maybe
even more than we anticipated them. And brock Bauers, who obviously,
you know, not only did he set rookie receiving yards records,
breaking Mike Ditkah's record for yards, but also receptions, breaking
Puka Nukua's rookie reception right, but but he was if

(51:46):
you look at if you draw circle so us computer vision,
I draw circle around like where he was even targeted.
The man is like those frisbee dogs, like going back
to catch balls that he has no business catching. So this,
you know, he's also like very quiet, very humble, like
a he's a good kid, Like I'm I'm excited to

(52:07):
see him going forward. But he had no business even
catching half of the balls that were thrown his way.
They were not good passes. I'm not being mean, they
just weren't. And that was to me. I think that's
like a really interesting unsung award because every year we
can always think of a guy who, maybe on a
different team, really would have had an opportunity to in

(52:29):
his case, maybe rookie of the Rookie Offensive Player of
the Year, but even even just in general, just one
of those things, like just something to recognize he really
the interior line terrible. There was no run game to
speak of. The quarterback position was a little bit of
a turnstyle. It was not a good situation. And say
for a few pieces of their defensive front, their defense

(52:50):
didn't you know, Max Crosby's awesome, but you know, the
defense didn't really help them out either. So you know,
Black Bauers made that whole freaking team go. So that
was I felt like we needed to just give a
guy an award who's not maybe on a playoff team
or a team that has a lot of staying power
in the season, but he really helped out even more

(53:10):
than we expected.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
Well look, he was a totally boler totally phenomenal, totally phenomenal.

Speaker 3 (53:16):
I was trying to think of who do we not
give enough flowers to this season, and I feel like
she nailed it with the brock Bowers pick like he was.
He did so much for a team that just give
you gave back so little. I'm gonna go with our boy,
Chad Bryce Young, like this kid got benched, he was
left for dead and was it like a car accident
and he Dolton like he got his starting job back

(53:37):
in the weirdest way and he took it and he
ran with it like they of all the teams. I
think back this past season, obviously the Bucks beat the Eagles.
That Panthers team should have beat this Eagles team, and
that was like no excuse. Eagles had all their starters
and Bryce Shawn played out of his mind.

Speaker 2 (53:53):
And I know me and you Chad.

Speaker 3 (53:55):
He saved our ass, Like, we love this kid, and
we looked like fools for about a weeks. He came
back with vengeance stem the season for us, and I'm
just happy to be stuck to it.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
So for my guys, it's gotta be Bryce.

Speaker 3 (54:07):
Seawan just totally turn it around and just shows how
important the mental health is of a player in football.
Like he had all the tools, he had the skill,
he just didn't have it mentally and whatever happened just
watching it from the bench totally reramped his mind and
he came out there and played like a true leader.
So yeah, Bryce Young will deserves in my mind of
unward this season.

Speaker 4 (54:27):
A guy got a chance to meet him at the
super Bowl and we did a panel and it was
Joe Eisman, him and Kevin O'Connell, and I was like,
when I'm hosting, Hi'm like, oh, I'm gonna have to.

Speaker 5 (54:36):
Like what am I gonna do to like get him involved?
Like how am I gonna?

Speaker 4 (54:40):
You know, I wasn't expecting him this Bryce Young on
it like just so like I was so impressed by
him and his like just his presence and you know,
because joke Thaisman's a talker. He's got his bits, you know,
we're like all the veteran players have. And Bryce was
just fitting right, like it was awesome. So I he really,
he really impressed me greatly in person, his knowledge of

(55:04):
the game, his passion for it. Like I not to
say I wasn't expecting it, but you know, you get
some of these young players and they have variable seasons
and they get a little in their feelings. No, no,
he was like boom, like he was awesome. I'm such
a fan.

Speaker 1 (55:16):
Right before you get out of here, Like we started
the show, you have put out a mock draft. You're
going to the combine. You do this every single year.
Let's do mock the mock, praise the mock. Tell us
the picks and predictions over the years that you should
be mocked for and which ones you should be praised for.

(55:38):
Start start with the mock.

Speaker 4 (55:41):
Okay, god, there's like a billion number one my model.
Oh even like last year, last year, I the Jadeen
Daniels one is one that I will that I will
stand by because that was a good one. But there
was about fifty other ones in now and that I'm like,
these kids are they're like out of the League already.

(56:03):
So I'm trying to think of my my best mock
the mock, and I don't want to be mean because
I always feel like mean saying it. But I there's
a there is a certain quarterback that, uh.

Speaker 5 (56:17):
That my model really liked.

Speaker 4 (56:19):
He's a nice person, but he didn't do so great
for your team.

Speaker 1 (56:24):
No, but that.

Speaker 5 (56:29):
I love though.

Speaker 1 (56:33):
The journey.

Speaker 5 (56:35):
I'm talking about Truebisky. I'm not talking about Caleb.

Speaker 4 (56:37):
I'm talking about my model was like in in three times,
in four times.

Speaker 5 (56:42):
And you know who else? I was in on Justin Fields.

Speaker 4 (56:45):
I you know again, Justin Fields came up early half
for me, and I feel bad. I feel mean, I'm
like picking on the Bears, but I still like Justin
Field's I still like Mitch as humans. Mis Trubisky is
awesome and Justin like they all are. But you know,
I it just the mock was a lot higher.

Speaker 5 (57:01):
On them than maybe it should have been.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
Listen, as I will do three times a year, I'll
remind everybody the Bears traded up. They traded up in
that draft from three to two. They were so anxious
someone was going to take Mitch Trubisky. They traded up
to get Mitch True Busky, I got fleet.

Speaker 5 (57:22):
They got a little fleeced there, I think.

Speaker 4 (57:23):
And.

Speaker 1 (57:25):
Just not even think about Patrick Mahomes. Yep, how can
we praise you? All right? So Mitch truebisky that is
you deserve your mock for that one. How can we
praise you? Before we go?

Speaker 4 (57:38):
Jan Daniels, I had he was my number one and
over and look, I like, I liked Caleb Williams too,
just to be clear, like I didn't have him as
being so vastly different, but my stuff said that he'd
have a better first season by a lot, mostly because
of the potential for the running and the throwing on
the run.

Speaker 5 (57:57):
And it just happened to be right. So that was
we liked.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
When it works out, we do, we do, and that
was a good call, all right. Cynthia frielin to go
into the combine for NFL Network. Everyone should watch Slash
listen to numbers game. Amazing stuff. That story about your grandfather, yes,
is classic and so apro po for this audience, So
way to save it, Way to save it for the show.

(58:22):
As a reminder dropping things here, Yeah, that's right, as
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(59:07):
return with our next episode of the Favorit's one of
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(59:27):
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