March 5, 2025 • 27 mins
Jason Timpf answers NBA mailbag questions from fans on topics ranging from Los Angeles Lakers superstar LeBron James' tweets about NBA media coverage and the face of the league debate, whether Jayson Tatum and the Boston Celtics are an all-time great team, where Kevin Durant should go next if he leaves the Phoenix Suns, who the most unguardable players in the league are, and more.
Timeline
4:00 - Start
5:00 - LeBron's comments
14:30 - Should Lakers add Stanley Johnson
16:00 - Celtics in big moments
27:30 - Young player development
31:00 - Kevin Durant's best destination
#Volume #Herd
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
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(01:39):
welcome to Hoops tonight. You're at the volume. Happy Tuesday, everybody, wellvolve.
You guys are having a great week. We as promised
they're going to get into a mail bag today. Lots
of interesting questions from you guys. But before we get
into the questions, I want to give some thoughts off
the top about the state of NBA media and the
comments from Lebron James the other day after his kind
of back and forth that he was having with the
(02:01):
press about just like other players and media shitting on
the state of the NBA. So that's gonna be interesting.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
One off the top.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
You guys are the joke before we get started. To
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We're releasing content throughout the year. The last but not least,
keep dropping mail back question so we can hit them
(02:28):
throughout the remainder of the season. All right, let's talk
some basketball. So I've talked about this concept a lot.
It's a really difficult dynamic that the media and the
players have. I've thought about this a lot because I imagine
what it would be like like if I was playing
in the NBA and I was working my butt off
(02:49):
behind the scenes and doing everything I could be the
best basketball player I could be and I had some
dude in his guest bedroom with a bunch of stuff
on the shelves behind him, who's not an NBA player,
who is telling me what I'm doing wrong, and I
get that that leads to a visceral response. There's a
(03:10):
certain amount of this dynamic that is unavoidably weird. And
I've always wanted to like sit with an NBA player
and just ask them about it, and I haven't really
had the chance yet. I've the one interview I did
was with Haime Haakes and it was a short form
interview and we were focused on some other stuff. I
didn't really get a chance to get into it, and
who knows, maybe one day I'll have that opportunity. But like,
(03:31):
it's an interesting dynamic, and I understand and sympathize with
that kind of instinctual revulsion that so many of these
players have towards the NBA media. I think it's complicated
because one of the things that specifically frustrates me is
this idea that it has a lot to do with
guys like me who are not NBA players. When when
(03:52):
I'm watching an NBA media and the vast majority of
the negativity comes from former players, Like it feels to
me like the shitting on the NBA and the current
players comes from the guys on inside the NBA, not
just that, but all of these player pods. It feels
like every single week, every single day, I'm scrolling through
(04:14):
Twitter and it's like Gilbert Arenas said this, or like
this other guy said that, or you know, uh, Chandler
Parson said this, and it's like another NBA player relatively
recently retired who's just openly shitting on an NBA player.
And sometimes I'm looking at it and I'm like, that's
not even true, you know what I mean. Like I
(04:35):
saw a dude the other day talking about how like
Lebron James has struggled with shot making his entire career.
I'm like, the guy who's the all time leading scorer
is the guy that you think struggles to make shots?
Like what are we even talking about here? And I
think it leads to a there's a weird dynamic with
former players too, where like they're already accomplished and they've
done so many amazing things for the game of basketball,
(04:57):
and their media career is kind of like just another
like hendage on the back of it. But it's not
something that was their fiery passion from day one, like
so many of the media professionals you meet out there,
and so as a result, there's a lot of like
that kind of surface level insulting coverage of the league
that you see, And like it's kind of a reality
(05:17):
because those guys would be the guys who would be
best equipped to teach people about the game. But like,
I get how if they just spent twenty years devoting
their entire life or an seeing amount of time to
the game, that they might want to take an easier
approach in their post career media experience, right, Like, I
understand all of that. I get it. It's complicated. But
(05:42):
even among non NBA players, I see irrational criticism. I
see stuff that I think goes too far. I'm not
sitting here and saying that I think it's perfect. I
was thankful for the way Lebron phrased his response in
that threat of tweets where he talked about how is
important for us to break down and discuss when players fail.
(06:05):
This is a dynamic I talk about a lot on
the show. If I came on every day and all
I ever did was just tell you about how great
and amazing every NBA player is. It is propaganda. Even
further than that, it's not reality.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
What are sports?
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Sports are nasty, competitive, physical, violent. It's about a pursuit
of winning. In sports, you're trying to step on your
opponent's neck to get where you're wanting to go. It
is inherently nasty. And guess what, there's a winner, but
there's always a loser. And discussing how a team wins
(06:47):
or how a team loses forces you to discuss weaknesses,
forces you to discuss flaws and mistakes, and so like,
I think it's a very important part of this profession
to also balance your praise with a certain amount of criticism.
I think it's inherent and so it's this dynamic that's
(07:10):
unavoidable because I totally sympathize with the players who are
doing all of the work and are actually playing basketball
at the highest level. These are the very best people
in the entire eight billion person world at their profession
being criticized by people that are not even in the
same stratosphere as them. I get it, but it is
unavoidable because of the realities of the profession my approach
(07:32):
to it, and this is just my feeling on it
is like Lebron said, break it down.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
If you have an.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Issue with a player or a weakness with the team
that you want to discuss, explain why. If you make
your case, then I think it's all part of the
larger process of how we all process the game, and
as we're all trying to learn about players and learn
about teams that I think makes sense where it becomes
a problem. And I'm not saying that I've made this
(08:01):
mistake over the years. I remember when Russell Westbrook was
on the Lakers. I I had a day where, like, dude,
I was so frustrated with him, and I was younger,
you know, it was three years ago, but like, I
had a day where I came on the show and
I said, Russell Westbrook sucks. I said it in the
context of his frustration with the fans, and I was
explaining why the fans feel the way they feel.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
It was wrong.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
I came on the next day and I apologize. That's
not the kind of guy I want to be. Russell
Westbrook doesn't suck. He's one of the very best basketball
players to ever grace the earth, and I'm a fan.
That's the crazier part too. I'm a fan of his
from his younger phase of his career when he was
a star, and I just got worked up and I
got a little too emotional and I said something I
(08:42):
wish I wouldn't have said. And I'm not and I'm
not expecting perfection from anybody. That's part of the profession.
If you're going to talk for a living, you're gonna
say stupid shit. It's not the first time I said
something stupid, it won't be the last time I say
something stupid. But as a goal for all of us,
and as a goal for myself, I just want to
if I'm going to be critical of a player, make
sure that it's based in evidence, in something that I
(09:06):
can defend. I want to be able to if I'm
saying Bradley Beal is really struggling off ball, both as
a rebounder and as a help side defender, I want
to make sure that I've watched the film and I
have a clear feeling in my head based on my
pursuit of evidence that what I'm saying is based in reality.
(09:28):
That doesn't mean it's perfect. There are disagreements, right. One
of the most common things I find when I'm talking
with NBA personalities, is like this guy thinks so and
so is a good defender, and I think he's a
bad defender. This guy thinks so and so is a
reliable playoff performer. I disagree whatever it is. Like a
lot of this is subjective, but if you're at least
(09:49):
putting in the work and you're making an evidence based case,
I think criticism is good. It's part of how we
learn about the game. You want to understand why this
team is struggling to do this. It's important for us
to dive into why. Helps all of us learn And
it's just the reality of sports. Sports is nasty, Sports
is competitive. Sports is not just like a big love fest.
(10:13):
That's not what it is. It's mean, guys talk shit,
there's cheap shots, there's blood, sweat, tears. It's complicated. So
like I think we all embrace that. But as it
comes to our coverage of the game, I think it's
important that criticism is based in evidence and not just
like slanderous. And it is one of the funny things
(10:34):
I see because like it does kind of like great
at me a little bit, the way that it's portrayed
as like an issue that can be solved by just
getting certain types of people into the profession. The types
of people has nothing to do with whether or not
you played the game. I played the game I played
in college. I have a lot of playing experience. That's
not why this show is what it is. The show
(10:56):
is what it is because I love basketball, and because
I put in the work behind the scenes. And yeah,
my playing experience is something I relate to sometimes and
I might drop a reference in there based on my
experience playing the game that helps to a certain extent.
I've met people that never pick up a basketball that
are brilliant basketball minds that I learn every day from.
(11:19):
And I've sat across from dudes that I play basketball
with every day that are very good basketball players that
I'm talking about an NBA team, and I'm like, dude,
I just don't agree with you. That to me, that
I think the gate keeping surrounding NBA media about the
idea that you need to have like a certain amount
(11:40):
of basketball experience is foolishness. I think that it's about
a love and a respect for the game that will
manifest in hard work that will lead to quality educational
content and entertaining content for all of us. All right,
let's get to our mailbag questions. Could Stanley Johnson help
(12:03):
the Lakers in this difficult stretch With Ruey's injury, the
Lakers wing rotation is pretty shallow. If they wave Reddish
and sign Goodwin, which is expected at this point, they
could sign Stanley to a two way to give them
a couple of shifts per game. They could also check
his fit with the team for a potential minimum contract
next season. Loving the coverage of the Lakers on the
show lately, keep it up, Jason, I'm really curious to
(12:24):
see how they handle all these different roster situations as well,
because it gets even more complicated with Trey Jemison. Like,
if Trey Jemison is your backup center behind Jackson Hayes,
like he needs to be rostered if you trust him
more than you trust Alex lenn to be your ass
kicking center, and you need a guy on the roster
where if like if Ruy goes down, or if like
(12:44):
a small ball group doesn't work in a specific matchup,
that means you got a roster Jemison too, And it's
gonna be complicated. It's gonna be complicated because I do
think Jordan Goodwin is like basically a like their tenth
man or whatever in their rotation, and a guy that
they're gonna need to need to use even when they're
fully health at times if they end up converting one
of those guys, I think Stanley is a perfect fit.
(13:05):
I think he's a great small ball type of forward.
He's been shooting the three ball substantially better in his
time in the G League over the last couple of years.
I'm personally a fan of Stanley. He came through Tucson,
Arizona's super nice guy, played against him and with him
several times when he was here. I would love to
see Stanley be a Laker. I think he'd be a
great fit. I know you're a big Celtics advocate, and
I do rate them, but I feel like when the
(13:27):
lights shine brightest and a full strength team really matches
them toe to toe, they do struggle. You talk of
the Celtics settling for shots when under pressure, but do
you think they lack b MT at the highest level?
Not sure what that means, you know how Butler thrives
in that situation, and so does Steph and Lebron. It's
that killer instinct, which I think Tatum lacks as the
(13:47):
leader of the team. I keep reflecting on how the
Cavs and Pacers were all severely injured in last year's playoffs.
In the previous playoffs, they did struggle against the Heat
and the Warriors. So part of me thinks the Celtics
are still unproven at the highest level. Where thoughts Jason,
So there's a small part of me that agrees with
you in the sense that, like I have consistently said,
and Celtics fans know this, I've consistently said, I do
(14:08):
not view this Celtics team as an all time great
type of team. They were a dominant regular season team
last year in a historically weak Eastern Conference, and they
caught favorable matchups on their way to the postseason. That
doesn't mean that they're not the best team in the league. Still,
I do think Boston is the best team in the league.
I just don't think they're the twenty eighteen Warriors. And
(14:31):
there were a lot of Celtics fans after last year's
postseason who were saying that they're like the twenty eighteen Warriors.
I don't view them like that. But as I zoom
out and I look at all the teams. Yes, their
record is not as good as Cleveland or OKAYCS. It'd
be weird if it was. Those teams are an entirely
different motivational cycles or parts of their motivational cycle. But
(14:54):
as I look at them, I go, do they have
versatility on defense? Different schemes they can use. Yeah, they
can keep Porzenkis at the rim and run you know,
more traditional drop coverages and and and be kind of
physically imposing in that way. But then they also have
switching groups where they can switch one through five, and
like every single one of the five defenders is a
good strong defender, and like they can put together tons
(15:15):
of groups that space the four really well. They have
a bunch of different dudes that can create shots. They
have different types of shot creators for different types of matchups.
And as I look through them as strictly as strengths
and weaknesses type of team in the playoff context, I
just think they're better than Okay see in Cleveland and
Denver and the Lakers and the Knicks. And I think
they're better. That doesn't mean that they're Yeah, like guys,
(15:39):
I don't think they're the Katie Steph Prime, Clay Prime,
Draymond Andre Gudala Warriors. I don't think they're that team.
I don't That's that will be determined in the long run.
If they get into this postseason and they rip through
the Knicks, and they rip through the Calves, and they
rip through whoever comes through the West, then we can
(16:02):
start having a conversation about whether or not they're one
of those all time great teams. I've said this before.
All time grade is determined by multiple dominant playoff fronts.
But like I do think that, like just we're having
a different type of debate in terms of where last
year's team ranks historically and among these thirty NBA teams
(16:23):
this year, who is the most well equipped to succeed
in the postseason. Should the Lakers prioritize going for the
two seed or do you think JJ will instead risk
some losses by testing out different lineups and rotations to
see which players could be useful for the playoffs and
to keep his core players healthy and fresh. I would
be one hundred percent focused on health within the context
(16:44):
of trying to win games. Like for instance, like Austin
probably could have played last night. I think they have
a high enough foundation to be able to win a
certain amount of games. Two seed would be great for
home court, Like if you ended up in a two
to three matchup with Denver, it'd be great to have
home court. But like, I'm not particularly worried about home
road necessarily as long as the Lakers are completely healthy. So,
(17:07):
like to put it simply, I think they should try
to win as many games as possible, but never play
a guy who's in any sort of significant discomfort in
terms of managing health and just their their bodies.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
As they head into that stretch, the.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Celtics have gotten into a lot of trouble and have
lost a few games leading into the fourth. Majority of
these games, Tatum isn't put into the fourth until the
eight to six minute mark. Why do you think Missoula
keeps doing this in the rotation? I think this year
Tatum has created even more space between him and JB
being the clear number one. But as it stands, Misula
is content with sitting Tatum for four plus minutes. I
don't understand it. I didn't I've wanted to know what
your thoughts are in this. This is something every team does,
(17:44):
is what the Lakers do with Luca. This is what
the Nuggets do with Jokic as they're trying to establish
a rotation. Most teams with their very best player are
either going to play their start the entirety of the
first quarter, the entirety of the third quarter, and the
second half of the second quarter, and the second half
of the fourth quarter. So to take a break to
(18:04):
start the second quarter and start the fourth quarter. An
easy way to put it is, if you sit six
minutes in the second and sit six minutes in the fourth,
you're still playing thirty six minutes. You don't want to rest.
You don't want to be routinely playing your guys more
than thirty six minutes in a regular season game, right,
So some teams will tweak that a little bit and
(18:25):
they'll move that second six minute stretch to spam the
first and second quarters and to span the third and
fourth quarters. This is what the Lakers do with Luca.
Take him out with like two minutes left in the first,
bring him back with like eight minutes left in the second.
But like that is pretty typical for teams to want
to get off to a really strong start and set
the tones, so they play their star the majority of
the first quarter and the majority of the start of
(18:46):
the second half, and then it's like we're going to
try to cover you during this stretch in the early second,
early fourth. In clutch time, you come in six seven
minutes left and you fire the rest of the bullets
in the chamber and we see if we can get
this thing. Also, if you look at it, there's different
phases of the game where the starters play. Typically beginning
of the first quarter, end of the second quarter, beginning
(19:07):
of the third quarter, end of the fourth quarter. That's
what all the starters on the floor. End of first,
early second, end of third, early fourth, or almost always
bench groups. So regardless of whether your stars playing with
the first set of bench groups or the second set
of bench groups, it's still bench groups. Those are opportunities
where you need to show that you can have your
bench guys outperform the other team's bench guys. And if
(19:31):
you have played Jokic or played Tatum to start the
fourth quarter, you'd have to sit him at the end
of the third quarter. And if you sit him at
the end of the third quarter, you could have the
same problems that you're complaining about in the fourth quarter.
Context got to sit these guys in the regular season,
or you're gonna wear them out. When evaluating a young
(20:02):
player's skill set at one point, at what point in
their career does it go from hasn't shown it yet
to isn't capable of it? To me, this has a
lot to do with the actual foundational set of skills.
A couple of examples. If I'm looking at If I'm
looking at a guy like Palo Boncero or a guy
(20:23):
like Jalen Green, I feel like Paolo even if he
struggled from now till the day he turned thirty. He's
so big, he's so strong, he has so much natural
talent that if it clicked for him, like he had
a really good summer in the gym working on his
jump shot and a change in approach in terms of
(20:44):
not settling for as many bad mid range jump shots,
and he kind of clicked a little bit more as
a playmaker. Over a five year span. He could be
massively underwhelming and then explode in his thirties because he
has such a strong foundation. It's why I quit on
Jalen Green. Yes he's a frustrating defensive player. Yes he
(21:04):
plays tunnel vision on offense, yet it's frustrating when he
beats his man off the dribble and then tries to
throw up some crazy fucking layup in around like four
help defenders.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
It's frustrating.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
But if at age twenty nine it clicks, he can
be deeply impactful because of how strong his foundational traits are.
So where it becomes an issue is when you see
an obvious sign of physical decline and that improvement hasn't
been made yet, or this player's developing but he doesn't
have a strong enough physical foundation. I'll give you an example.
(21:36):
I was a little worried about Darius Garland early in
his career because I didn't think he brought any trait
to the table that was really problematic for teams. He's
gotten healthy now and he looks incredibly fast, like problematically fast,
Like teams can't handle him fast. And so like if
(21:58):
we got three four years down the line and he
still had his playoff struggles and started to see some
decline in his quickness, then I would be concerned.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Like it's a combination of like your evolution of at
as a basketball player and how strong your physical foundation is.
With the way Jason Tatum is playing the season on
top of the ridiculously stacked roster the Celtics have. I'm
curious what teams, if any, you think match up well
against Boston. It seems they have one of the most
complete starting fives we have ever seen. Do you see
any teams that have obvious advantages over them? The two
(22:29):
teams that i'd be are like, all these teams have
potential issues they can present. I think the Caves would
be ridiculous to write them off completely. I just think
they have some entry points that can cause them problems.
So the Calves are a big one. I think that
they'd have to keep an eye out out of the West.
It's the Lakers and OKC that I'd be worried about.
I think they match up really well with Denver because
of their ability to consistently get them in rotation. The
(22:49):
Lakers and the thunder both have the ability to pretty
routinely play them into their worst tendencies, which is like
ISO's difficult over the top shot making because of those
teams and the way they stunt and sag and and
find ways to kind of make them feel like they're
playing in a crowd even when they're playing one on one,
then the Lakers. They have the ability to match up
attack Boston and Oka See has a speed advantage. I
(23:11):
think that manifest for OKAC, especially on the defensive end.
They can stay up underneath Boston and keep them in
front and turn them into contested jump shooters. Those are
the three teams that I'd be particularly worried about, but
I would pick Boston against all three of them. Two more,
what team would be the best fit for KD next year?
Since we know he's not going to be in a
Sun's jersey next year, where should he go? I think
(23:31):
Houston would be his best move. But what do you think?
Houston and Oklahoma City are the two teams that scare
me for that type of trade with Kevin Durant. Houston
because they can anchor him with just a rock solid
defense and a ton of physicality, a good coach, just
like it's a physical, ass kicking team that KD can
lift over the top. We talked about that a little
(23:51):
bit when we talked in our Sun segment yesterday. Oklahoma City,
if they were like, screw it, let's go get KD.
I think they would be an immediate, like massive championship
favorite like head and shoulders over the field. He fits
a position group that they're a little thin at at
the power forward. You can imagine him next to Chet
and Shae. It's just a ridiculously strong foundation. They can
(24:15):
throw the Suns a million draft picks to figure it
out for a team that probably would like to pivot anyway.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Okay sees the team.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Everyone should be crossing their fingers and begging doesn't go
after Kevin Durant this summer. Last question really fun one. Hey,
Jason love the pod. You mentioned how jaws speed and
downhill force represents an unsolvable issue for defenses at the
highest levels. I was wondering if you go through the
NBA and list the players that also have unsolvable abilities
and what that skill is. I suspect that list isn't
(24:43):
as long as many others think. Thanks and keep it going,
best basketball part of the net. Thank you, Thank you
for the kind words.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
All of you guys.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
So we talked about Darius Carland earlier, John Morant, as
you mentioned, I decided to just list a couple others
for you guys. This is just kind of rough thrown together,
but let me know what you guys think. So I
put Shae his first step, his pull up shooting that
kind of just makes him very, very difficult to keep
in front or to keep from getting to his spots.
Jannis overwhelming size and athleticism, Jokic size, shot making and passing,
(25:11):
Anthony Edwards first step, pull up shooting and strength. Jason
Tatum doesn't really have an A plus trait necessarily, but
I do think his overall skill set is so good
that it's that type of imposing for teams like you
just can fill so many different holes in any specific matchup.
Tyre Smaxi's speed, I think is a real game changing talent,
(25:33):
Kevin Durant's size and shooting, Luka Doncic size, shot making
and playmaking, Anthony Davis defensive versatility. Kate Cunningham eventually should
be able to do a rough facsimile of what Luka
Doncic does. Lebron James rough facsimile of what Luka Dancic does,
And I think Lebron's been one of the best two
or three defenders in the league over the last you know,
thirty games or so. Zion Williamson is dribble penetration in
(25:57):
rim finishing, Victor Weimin Yama's length, I defense, Steph Curry
the threat of his shooting, Joel Embiid's size and scoring,
his footwork, his ability to move his body. Palo I
think eventually could bring a combination of size, strength and
scoring that is a potential there for So what does
I give you? One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen.
(26:23):
So that's eighteen guys that bring that type of issue.
I'm setting a pretty low bar, Like there's obviously like
four or five of those dudes that are at another
level above everyone else. But those are the guys that
I think bring a specific talent that is an A
plus talent that could be a foundational trait for an
elite basketball team.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Very good question. That was a fun one.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
All right, guys. That's all I have for today is
always to sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting me and
supporting the show. The plan as of right now is
on Wednesday morning, while I'm in Breck, I'm gonna do
a video breaking down some of the games from Tuesday night,
and then we're going live on Thursday night after the
TNT game that night, so couple shows while we're there,
and then we'll take Friday off and then we'll go
live on Saturday night as Celtics Lakers on ABC.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
That should be a fun one.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Again, as always, I appreciate you guys for supporting me
and supporting the show.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Now I'll see you on Wednesday the volume What's Up guys?
Speaker 2 (27:16):
As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting
OOPS tonight. It would actually be really helpful for us
if you guys would take a second and leave a
rating and a review. As always, I appreciate you guys
supporting us, but if you could take a minute to
do that, I'd really appreciate it.
The volume.
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(01:39):
welcome to Hoops tonight. You're at the volume. Happy Tuesday, everybody, wellvolve.
You guys are having a great week. We as promised
they're going to get into a mail bag today. Lots
of interesting questions from you guys. But before we get
into the questions, I want to give some thoughts off
the top about the state of NBA media and the
comments from Lebron James the other day after his kind
of back and forth that he was having with the
(02:01):
press about just like other players and media shitting on
the state of the NBA. So that's gonna be interesting.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
One off the top.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
You guys are the joke before we get started. To
subscribe to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channel so you don't
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We're releasing content throughout the year. The last but not least,
keep dropping mail back question so we can hit them
(02:28):
throughout the remainder of the season. All right, let's talk
some basketball. So I've talked about this concept a lot.
It's a really difficult dynamic that the media and the
players have. I've thought about this a lot because I imagine
what it would be like like if I was playing
in the NBA and I was working my butt off
(02:49):
behind the scenes and doing everything I could be the
best basketball player I could be and I had some
dude in his guest bedroom with a bunch of stuff
on the shelves behind him, who's not an NBA player,
who is telling me what I'm doing wrong, and I
get that that leads to a visceral response. There's a
(03:10):
certain amount of this dynamic that is unavoidably weird. And
I've always wanted to like sit with an NBA player
and just ask them about it, and I haven't really
had the chance yet. I've the one interview I did
was with Haime Haakes and it was a short form
interview and we were focused on some other stuff. I
didn't really get a chance to get into it, and
who knows, maybe one day I'll have that opportunity. But like,
(03:31):
it's an interesting dynamic, and I understand and sympathize with
that kind of instinctual revulsion that so many of these
players have towards the NBA media. I think it's complicated
because one of the things that specifically frustrates me is
this idea that it has a lot to do with
guys like me who are not NBA players. When when
(03:52):
I'm watching an NBA media and the vast majority of
the negativity comes from former players, Like it feels to
me like the shitting on the NBA and the current
players comes from the guys on inside the NBA, not
just that, but all of these player pods. It feels
like every single week, every single day, I'm scrolling through
(04:14):
Twitter and it's like Gilbert Arenas said this, or like
this other guy said that, or you know, uh, Chandler
Parson said this, and it's like another NBA player relatively
recently retired who's just openly shitting on an NBA player.
And sometimes I'm looking at it and I'm like, that's
not even true, you know what I mean. Like I
(04:35):
saw a dude the other day talking about how like
Lebron James has struggled with shot making his entire career.
I'm like, the guy who's the all time leading scorer
is the guy that you think struggles to make shots?
Like what are we even talking about here? And I
think it leads to a there's a weird dynamic with
former players too, where like they're already accomplished and they've
done so many amazing things for the game of basketball,
(04:57):
and their media career is kind of like just another
like hendage on the back of it. But it's not
something that was their fiery passion from day one, like
so many of the media professionals you meet out there,
and so as a result, there's a lot of like
that kind of surface level insulting coverage of the league
that you see, And like it's kind of a reality
(05:17):
because those guys would be the guys who would be
best equipped to teach people about the game. But like,
I get how if they just spent twenty years devoting
their entire life or an seeing amount of time to
the game, that they might want to take an easier
approach in their post career media experience, right, Like, I
understand all of that. I get it. It's complicated. But
(05:42):
even among non NBA players, I see irrational criticism. I
see stuff that I think goes too far. I'm not
sitting here and saying that I think it's perfect. I
was thankful for the way Lebron phrased his response in
that threat of tweets where he talked about how is
important for us to break down and discuss when players fail.
(06:05):
This is a dynamic I talk about a lot on
the show. If I came on every day and all
I ever did was just tell you about how great
and amazing every NBA player is. It is propaganda. Even
further than that, it's not reality.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
What are sports?
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Sports are nasty, competitive, physical, violent. It's about a pursuit
of winning. In sports, you're trying to step on your
opponent's neck to get where you're wanting to go. It
is inherently nasty. And guess what, there's a winner, but
there's always a loser. And discussing how a team wins
(06:47):
or how a team loses forces you to discuss weaknesses,
forces you to discuss flaws and mistakes, and so like,
I think it's a very important part of this profession
to also balance your praise with a certain amount of criticism.
I think it's inherent and so it's this dynamic that's
(07:10):
unavoidable because I totally sympathize with the players who are
doing all of the work and are actually playing basketball
at the highest level. These are the very best people
in the entire eight billion person world at their profession
being criticized by people that are not even in the
same stratosphere as them. I get it, but it is
unavoidable because of the realities of the profession my approach
(07:32):
to it, and this is just my feeling on it
is like Lebron said, break it down.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
If you have an.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Issue with a player or a weakness with the team
that you want to discuss, explain why. If you make
your case, then I think it's all part of the
larger process of how we all process the game, and
as we're all trying to learn about players and learn
about teams that I think makes sense where it becomes
a problem. And I'm not saying that I've made this
(08:01):
mistake over the years. I remember when Russell Westbrook was
on the Lakers. I I had a day where, like, dude,
I was so frustrated with him, and I was younger,
you know, it was three years ago, but like, I
had a day where I came on the show and
I said, Russell Westbrook sucks. I said it in the
context of his frustration with the fans, and I was
explaining why the fans feel the way they feel.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
It was wrong.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
I came on the next day and I apologize. That's
not the kind of guy I want to be. Russell
Westbrook doesn't suck. He's one of the very best basketball
players to ever grace the earth, and I'm a fan.
That's the crazier part too. I'm a fan of his
from his younger phase of his career when he was
a star, and I just got worked up and I
got a little too emotional and I said something I
(08:42):
wish I wouldn't have said. And I'm not and I'm
not expecting perfection from anybody. That's part of the profession.
If you're going to talk for a living, you're gonna
say stupid shit. It's not the first time I said
something stupid, it won't be the last time I say
something stupid. But as a goal for all of us,
and as a goal for myself, I just want to
if I'm going to be critical of a player, make
sure that it's based in evidence, in something that I
(09:06):
can defend. I want to be able to if I'm
saying Bradley Beal is really struggling off ball, both as
a rebounder and as a help side defender, I want
to make sure that I've watched the film and I
have a clear feeling in my head based on my
pursuit of evidence that what I'm saying is based in reality.
(09:28):
That doesn't mean it's perfect. There are disagreements, right. One
of the most common things I find when I'm talking
with NBA personalities, is like this guy thinks so and
so is a good defender, and I think he's a
bad defender. This guy thinks so and so is a
reliable playoff performer. I disagree whatever it is. Like a
lot of this is subjective, but if you're at least
(09:49):
putting in the work and you're making an evidence based case,
I think criticism is good. It's part of how we
learn about the game. You want to understand why this
team is struggling to do this. It's important for us
to dive into why. Helps all of us learn And
it's just the reality of sports. Sports is nasty, Sports
is competitive. Sports is not just like a big love fest.
(10:13):
That's not what it is. It's mean, guys talk shit,
there's cheap shots, there's blood, sweat, tears. It's complicated. So
like I think we all embrace that. But as it
comes to our coverage of the game, I think it's
important that criticism is based in evidence and not just
like slanderous. And it is one of the funny things
(10:34):
I see because like it does kind of like great
at me a little bit, the way that it's portrayed
as like an issue that can be solved by just
getting certain types of people into the profession. The types
of people has nothing to do with whether or not
you played the game. I played the game I played
in college. I have a lot of playing experience. That's
not why this show is what it is. The show
(10:56):
is what it is because I love basketball, and because
I put in the work behind the scenes. And yeah,
my playing experience is something I relate to sometimes and
I might drop a reference in there based on my
experience playing the game that helps to a certain extent.
I've met people that never pick up a basketball that
are brilliant basketball minds that I learn every day from.
(11:19):
And I've sat across from dudes that I play basketball
with every day that are very good basketball players that
I'm talking about an NBA team, and I'm like, dude,
I just don't agree with you. That to me, that
I think the gate keeping surrounding NBA media about the
idea that you need to have like a certain amount
(11:40):
of basketball experience is foolishness. I think that it's about
a love and a respect for the game that will
manifest in hard work that will lead to quality educational
content and entertaining content for all of us. All right,
let's get to our mailbag questions. Could Stanley Johnson help
(12:03):
the Lakers in this difficult stretch With Ruey's injury, the
Lakers wing rotation is pretty shallow. If they wave Reddish
and sign Goodwin, which is expected at this point, they
could sign Stanley to a two way to give them
a couple of shifts per game. They could also check
his fit with the team for a potential minimum contract
next season. Loving the coverage of the Lakers on the
show lately, keep it up, Jason, I'm really curious to
(12:24):
see how they handle all these different roster situations as well,
because it gets even more complicated with Trey Jemison. Like,
if Trey Jemison is your backup center behind Jackson Hayes,
like he needs to be rostered if you trust him
more than you trust Alex lenn to be your ass
kicking center, and you need a guy on the roster
where if like if Ruy goes down, or if like
(12:44):
a small ball group doesn't work in a specific matchup,
that means you got a roster Jemison too, And it's
gonna be complicated. It's gonna be complicated because I do
think Jordan Goodwin is like basically a like their tenth
man or whatever in their rotation, and a guy that
they're gonna need to need to use even when they're
fully health at times if they end up converting one
of those guys, I think Stanley is a perfect fit.
(13:05):
I think he's a great small ball type of forward.
He's been shooting the three ball substantially better in his
time in the G League over the last couple of years.
I'm personally a fan of Stanley. He came through Tucson,
Arizona's super nice guy, played against him and with him
several times when he was here. I would love to
see Stanley be a Laker. I think he'd be a
great fit. I know you're a big Celtics advocate, and
I do rate them, but I feel like when the
(13:27):
lights shine brightest and a full strength team really matches
them toe to toe, they do struggle. You talk of
the Celtics settling for shots when under pressure, but do
you think they lack b MT at the highest level?
Not sure what that means, you know how Butler thrives
in that situation, and so does Steph and Lebron. It's
that killer instinct, which I think Tatum lacks as the
(13:47):
leader of the team. I keep reflecting on how the
Cavs and Pacers were all severely injured in last year's playoffs.
In the previous playoffs, they did struggle against the Heat
and the Warriors. So part of me thinks the Celtics
are still unproven at the highest level. Where thoughts Jason,
So there's a small part of me that agrees with
you in the sense that, like I have consistently said,
and Celtics fans know this, I've consistently said, I do
(14:08):
not view this Celtics team as an all time great
type of team. They were a dominant regular season team
last year in a historically weak Eastern Conference, and they
caught favorable matchups on their way to the postseason. That
doesn't mean that they're not the best team in the league. Still,
I do think Boston is the best team in the league.
I just don't think they're the twenty eighteen Warriors. And
(14:31):
there were a lot of Celtics fans after last year's
postseason who were saying that they're like the twenty eighteen Warriors.
I don't view them like that. But as I zoom
out and I look at all the teams. Yes, their
record is not as good as Cleveland or OKAYCS. It'd
be weird if it was. Those teams are an entirely
different motivational cycles or parts of their motivational cycle. But
(14:54):
as I look at them, I go, do they have
versatility on defense? Different schemes they can use. Yeah, they
can keep Porzenkis at the rim and run you know,
more traditional drop coverages and and and be kind of
physically imposing in that way. But then they also have
switching groups where they can switch one through five, and
like every single one of the five defenders is a
good strong defender, and like they can put together tons
(15:15):
of groups that space the four really well. They have
a bunch of different dudes that can create shots. They
have different types of shot creators for different types of matchups.
And as I look through them as strictly as strengths
and weaknesses type of team in the playoff context, I
just think they're better than Okay see in Cleveland and
Denver and the Lakers and the Knicks. And I think
they're better. That doesn't mean that they're Yeah, like guys,
(15:39):
I don't think they're the Katie Steph Prime, Clay Prime,
Draymond Andre Gudala Warriors. I don't think they're that team.
I don't That's that will be determined in the long run.
If they get into this postseason and they rip through
the Knicks, and they rip through the Calves, and they
rip through whoever comes through the West, then we can
(16:02):
start having a conversation about whether or not they're one
of those all time great teams. I've said this before.
All time grade is determined by multiple dominant playoff fronts.
But like I do think that, like just we're having
a different type of debate in terms of where last
year's team ranks historically and among these thirty NBA teams
(16:23):
this year, who is the most well equipped to succeed
in the postseason. Should the Lakers prioritize going for the
two seed or do you think JJ will instead risk
some losses by testing out different lineups and rotations to
see which players could be useful for the playoffs and
to keep his core players healthy and fresh. I would
be one hundred percent focused on health within the context
(16:44):
of trying to win games. Like for instance, like Austin
probably could have played last night. I think they have
a high enough foundation to be able to win a
certain amount of games. Two seed would be great for
home court, Like if you ended up in a two
to three matchup with Denver, it'd be great to have
home court. But like, I'm not particularly worried about home
road necessarily as long as the Lakers are completely healthy. So,
(17:07):
like to put it simply, I think they should try
to win as many games as possible, but never play
a guy who's in any sort of significant discomfort in
terms of managing health and just their their bodies.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
As they head into that stretch, the.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Celtics have gotten into a lot of trouble and have
lost a few games leading into the fourth. Majority of
these games, Tatum isn't put into the fourth until the
eight to six minute mark. Why do you think Missoula
keeps doing this in the rotation? I think this year
Tatum has created even more space between him and JB
being the clear number one. But as it stands, Misula
is content with sitting Tatum for four plus minutes. I
don't understand it. I didn't I've wanted to know what
your thoughts are in this. This is something every team does,
(17:44):
is what the Lakers do with Luca. This is what
the Nuggets do with Jokic as they're trying to establish
a rotation. Most teams with their very best player are
either going to play their start the entirety of the
first quarter, the entirety of the third quarter, and the
second half of the second quarter, and the second half
of the fourth quarter. So to take a break to
(18:04):
start the second quarter and start the fourth quarter. An
easy way to put it is, if you sit six
minutes in the second and sit six minutes in the fourth,
you're still playing thirty six minutes. You don't want to rest.
You don't want to be routinely playing your guys more
than thirty six minutes in a regular season game, right,
So some teams will tweak that a little bit and
(18:25):
they'll move that second six minute stretch to spam the
first and second quarters and to span the third and
fourth quarters. This is what the Lakers do with Luca.
Take him out with like two minutes left in the first,
bring him back with like eight minutes left in the second.
But like that is pretty typical for teams to want
to get off to a really strong start and set
the tones, so they play their star the majority of
the first quarter and the majority of the start of
(18:46):
the second half, and then it's like we're going to
try to cover you during this stretch in the early second,
early fourth. In clutch time, you come in six seven
minutes left and you fire the rest of the bullets
in the chamber and we see if we can get
this thing. Also, if you look at it, there's different
phases of the game where the starters play. Typically beginning
of the first quarter, end of the second quarter, beginning
(19:07):
of the third quarter, end of the fourth quarter. That's
what all the starters on the floor. End of first,
early second, end of third, early fourth, or almost always
bench groups. So regardless of whether your stars playing with
the first set of bench groups or the second set
of bench groups, it's still bench groups. Those are opportunities
where you need to show that you can have your
bench guys outperform the other team's bench guys. And if
(19:31):
you have played Jokic or played Tatum to start the
fourth quarter, you'd have to sit him at the end
of the third quarter. And if you sit him at
the end of the third quarter, you could have the
same problems that you're complaining about in the fourth quarter.
Context got to sit these guys in the regular season,
or you're gonna wear them out. When evaluating a young
(20:02):
player's skill set at one point, at what point in
their career does it go from hasn't shown it yet
to isn't capable of it? To me, this has a
lot to do with the actual foundational set of skills.
A couple of examples. If I'm looking at If I'm
looking at a guy like Palo Boncero or a guy
(20:23):
like Jalen Green, I feel like Paolo even if he
struggled from now till the day he turned thirty. He's
so big, he's so strong, he has so much natural
talent that if it clicked for him, like he had
a really good summer in the gym working on his
jump shot and a change in approach in terms of
(20:44):
not settling for as many bad mid range jump shots,
and he kind of clicked a little bit more as
a playmaker. Over a five year span. He could be
massively underwhelming and then explode in his thirties because he
has such a strong foundation. It's why I quit on
Jalen Green. Yes he's a frustrating defensive player. Yes he
(21:04):
plays tunnel vision on offense, yet it's frustrating when he
beats his man off the dribble and then tries to
throw up some crazy fucking layup in around like four
help defenders.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
It's frustrating.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
But if at age twenty nine it clicks, he can
be deeply impactful because of how strong his foundational traits are.
So where it becomes an issue is when you see
an obvious sign of physical decline and that improvement hasn't
been made yet, or this player's developing but he doesn't
have a strong enough physical foundation. I'll give you an example.
(21:36):
I was a little worried about Darius Garland early in
his career because I didn't think he brought any trait
to the table that was really problematic for teams. He's
gotten healthy now and he looks incredibly fast, like problematically fast,
Like teams can't handle him fast. And so like if
(21:58):
we got three four years down the line and he
still had his playoff struggles and started to see some
decline in his quickness, then I would be concerned.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Like it's a combination of like your evolution of at
as a basketball player and how strong your physical foundation is.
With the way Jason Tatum is playing the season on
top of the ridiculously stacked roster the Celtics have. I'm
curious what teams, if any, you think match up well
against Boston. It seems they have one of the most
complete starting fives we have ever seen. Do you see
any teams that have obvious advantages over them? The two
(22:29):
teams that i'd be are like, all these teams have
potential issues they can present. I think the Caves would
be ridiculous to write them off completely. I just think
they have some entry points that can cause them problems.
So the Calves are a big one. I think that
they'd have to keep an eye out out of the West.
It's the Lakers and OKC that I'd be worried about.
I think they match up really well with Denver because
of their ability to consistently get them in rotation. The
(22:49):
Lakers and the thunder both have the ability to pretty
routinely play them into their worst tendencies, which is like
ISO's difficult over the top shot making because of those
teams and the way they stunt and sag and and
find ways to kind of make them feel like they're
playing in a crowd even when they're playing one on one,
then the Lakers. They have the ability to match up
attack Boston and Oka See has a speed advantage. I
(23:11):
think that manifest for OKAC, especially on the defensive end.
They can stay up underneath Boston and keep them in
front and turn them into contested jump shooters. Those are
the three teams that I'd be particularly worried about, but
I would pick Boston against all three of them. Two more,
what team would be the best fit for KD next year?
Since we know he's not going to be in a
Sun's jersey next year, where should he go? I think
(23:31):
Houston would be his best move. But what do you think?
Houston and Oklahoma City are the two teams that scare
me for that type of trade with Kevin Durant. Houston
because they can anchor him with just a rock solid
defense and a ton of physicality, a good coach, just
like it's a physical, ass kicking team that KD can
lift over the top. We talked about that a little
(23:51):
bit when we talked in our Sun segment yesterday. Oklahoma City,
if they were like, screw it, let's go get KD.
I think they would be an immediate, like massive championship
favorite like head and shoulders over the field. He fits
a position group that they're a little thin at at
the power forward. You can imagine him next to Chet
and Shae. It's just a ridiculously strong foundation. They can
(24:15):
throw the Suns a million draft picks to figure it
out for a team that probably would like to pivot anyway.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Okay sees the team.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Everyone should be crossing their fingers and begging doesn't go
after Kevin Durant this summer. Last question really fun one. Hey,
Jason love the pod. You mentioned how jaws speed and
downhill force represents an unsolvable issue for defenses at the
highest levels. I was wondering if you go through the
NBA and list the players that also have unsolvable abilities
and what that skill is. I suspect that list isn't
(24:43):
as long as many others think. Thanks and keep it going,
best basketball part of the net. Thank you, Thank you
for the kind words.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
All of you guys.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
So we talked about Darius Carland earlier, John Morant, as
you mentioned, I decided to just list a couple others
for you guys. This is just kind of rough thrown together,
but let me know what you guys think. So I
put Shae his first step, his pull up shooting that
kind of just makes him very, very difficult to keep
in front or to keep from getting to his spots.
Jannis overwhelming size and athleticism, Jokic size, shot making and passing,
(25:11):
Anthony Edwards first step, pull up shooting and strength. Jason
Tatum doesn't really have an A plus trait necessarily, but
I do think his overall skill set is so good
that it's that type of imposing for teams like you
just can fill so many different holes in any specific matchup.
Tyre Smaxi's speed, I think is a real game changing talent,
(25:33):
Kevin Durant's size and shooting, Luka Doncic size, shot making
and playmaking, Anthony Davis defensive versatility. Kate Cunningham eventually should
be able to do a rough facsimile of what Luka
Doncic does. Lebron James rough facsimile of what Luka Dancic does,
And I think Lebron's been one of the best two
or three defenders in the league over the last you know,
thirty games or so. Zion Williamson is dribble penetration in
(25:57):
rim finishing, Victor Weimin Yama's length, I defense, Steph Curry
the threat of his shooting, Joel Embiid's size and scoring,
his footwork, his ability to move his body. Palo I
think eventually could bring a combination of size, strength and
scoring that is a potential there for So what does
I give you? One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen.
(26:23):
So that's eighteen guys that bring that type of issue.
I'm setting a pretty low bar, Like there's obviously like
four or five of those dudes that are at another
level above everyone else. But those are the guys that
I think bring a specific talent that is an A
plus talent that could be a foundational trait for an
elite basketball team.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Very good question. That was a fun one.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
All right, guys. That's all I have for today is
always to sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting me and
supporting the show. The plan as of right now is
on Wednesday morning, while I'm in Breck, I'm gonna do
a video breaking down some of the games from Tuesday night,
and then we're going live on Thursday night after the
TNT game that night, so couple shows while we're there,
and then we'll take Friday off and then we'll go
live on Saturday night as Celtics Lakers on ABC.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
That should be a fun one.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Again, as always, I appreciate you guys for supporting me
and supporting the show.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Now I'll see you on Wednesday the volume What's Up guys?
Speaker 2 (27:16):
As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting
OOPS tonight. It would actually be really helpful for us
if you guys would take a second and leave a
rating and a review. As always, I appreciate you guys
supporting us, but if you could take a minute to
do that, I'd really appreciate it.
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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