March 28, 2025 • 43 mins
Sam Esfandiari of the “Light Years” podcast on the Golden State Warriors joins the show to discuss the experience of rooting for Jimmy Butler, how the role players of Brandin Podziemski, Moses Moody, and Gary Payton II could make or break a playoff series, Jonathan Kuminga’s fit on the team, his optimism or not about a playoff run, and more.
Timeline
4:15 - Start
7:15 - Jimmy Butler experience
24:00 - Importance of the role players
33:30 - Jonathan Kuminga’s fit
43:00 - Playoff run chances
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Episode Transcript
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co slash audio. All right, wellcome to hoops tonight. You're
(01:45):
at the volume. Hay Friday, everybody. I hope all of
you guys have had a great week. We have a
very special guest today, my friend Sam's Fondiari, who covers
the Warriors with the Light Years podcast. They the Warriors
have played twenty games with Jimmy Butler. They have a
little bit of a break here before they play against
the New Orleans Pelicans tonight and I'm expecting Steph Curry
to make his return. But I thought it was a
(02:07):
great time for us to just kind of zoom out
and take a look at the early returns of Jimmy.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Butler with the Warriors.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
I was talking about this on the radio the other day,
But the Warriors and the Lakers to me, have undergone
such complete turnover in their play style and what they're
capable of over the course of the time since the
deadline that we almost have to completely reevaluate them and
what they're capable of. And I could think of nobody
better than Sam. First of all, how are you, man?
(02:35):
It's been a long time since we've done a pod together,
but I'm looking forward to this. It's gonna be fun.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Oh, I'm good overall, good of recording this. After the
Heat game, that was an emotional game. I don't know
how else to put it. It felt like a big
one and then it felt pretty deflating. But overall, it's
been good in Warriors Land since they made the Jimmy
Butler trade. Technically twenty one games. He sat one of them,
(03:01):
but I'll take sixteen and five.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yeah, that's right. He did sit out one of them.
I was joking with you last night because I've watched
quite a bit of Heat lately, just because they've had
a few national TV games and we've covered him on
the show a little bit, and they've been so lifeless.
And then last night they just had it. They had
the verb and you said to me, and it's like
you and I every time we've talked about the game,
(03:24):
we've always been just drawn to just competitiveness and competitors
and that nasty streak, And like you were, like, you
know what, I got handed to the to the Heat.
They wanted it like they they they clearly this meant
something to them, and they went after they got it done.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, I mean to me, if you don't understand how
good Bam out of Bio is, throw that game on.
He guarded Jimmy Butler, which like how many starting centers
can just you know, you can decide, you know from
opening tip, we're gonna have you guard the other team's
star wing. It's like him and Draymond and Lo and Behold,
those are two guys who tend to punch above their
(04:01):
weight in the playoffs. Every year they make the playoffs.
So yeah, you know, hat tip to them heat culture.
It's a real thing. Even if I was wondering if
it was a real thing after they went on a
losing streak when they lost Jimmy, It's still a real thing.
Kat Riley is a Hall of Famer for a reason.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
So we've had twenty games. I you know, I think
the experience of being a true fan in basketball is
really unique. I've been kind of embracing it because I
know when Lebron retires, I'm going to struggle with that
because I like, I won't really have that type of
fanhood anymore because I live in twos on Arizona. I
don't really have a team, so to speak, And when
(04:40):
Lebron retires, I just won't have that kind of like
sentimental attachment to anything. And so rooting for Luka doncicch like,
actually rooting for Luka Doncicic has given me such a
unique experience, like learning about him as a basketball player.
I think, I think truly rooting for a player you
just learn so much. And so you've I've been truly
(05:00):
rooting for Jimmy Butler. Now for twenty games. What has
that experience been like? What have you been surprised by
what have you really loved about his game? Just talk
a little bit about what that's been like.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
I mean, he was one of my favorite non Warriors
over the last decade. I always found myself rooting for
the Heat in the playoffs, you know, Eastern Conference. I
have no attachment to anyone, and I just love the
way they play, and you know, he's had some memorable
playoff modes, so I felt like I knew him. But
to your point, it's just not the same as when
you're watching every game opening tip to the end, and
(05:34):
so the things that jump out to me are like
I thought he would be a good fit on the
Warriors because there's such a premium on IQ and ball
movement in passing, and it's gone like five levels above
what I thought it would be. I thought there'd also
be a little friction because he's traditionally been a little
of an ISO player and the Warriors are traditionally not
(05:55):
that type of team, and it's been the complete opposite.
I mean, he's like essentially playing like Andrea Gudala, but
with the ability to get to the rim and the
free throw line. So that's been surprising. Other than that,
I don't know that the other aspects of it have
necessarily been that surprising. We've gone through kind of the
(06:16):
ebbs and flow of how he asserts himself. He's an
interesting player in the fact that he has a superstar
impact on the game, Like when you look at all
the advanced metrics, he always grades out as one of
the ten to fifteen best players just in terms of
impacting winning, But he's not really an offensive superstar. You
(06:36):
think of those playoff moments where he scored forty plus
and you think he's more of kind of your traditional
I'm gonna go get a bucket type of guy, and
that's been the thing that watching him more, it's like, yeah,
there'll be moments he does it, but that's really not
his game at all. So I guess that's kind of
been the other surprising thing.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Yeah, you know, it's fascinating because I think you could
make the case that the war are best equipped to
pull superstar level winning impact out of Jimmy Butler in
this phase of his career. You sent me some numbers earlier,
and we're gonna talk about it with uh with Jonathan
Kaminga here in a little bit, But just some of
the difference and on off numbers between him with kaminga
(07:15):
versus a guy like Gie Santos, where it's like crisp
quick decision making that all fits within the flow of
what they do in their five out offense, versus a
guy that like has more of a specific lane that
he thrives in and if things are operating in that lane,
then he looks super impactful. But when it gets outside
of that, he can struggle. And like I think with
Jimmy's versatility, there is a downside, and I think we
(07:38):
saw a little bit of it last night in the
sense that, like, if you with that without Steph, if
he's entirely out of the picture because he's injured, you're
not gonna get twenty five and eight from him every night.
That's not necessarily a level he can get to any more.
But within within the context of Steph being available, he's
(07:59):
more than capable of lifting these bench units. And they've
been really good this year with Steph off the floor
with Jimmy on like, they've been astonishingly good. I want
to say the net rating is almost plus twenty per
one hundred possessions. They're killing teams. In that context, it
is a little bit of a different journey, and I
think there's some like if I was playing Devil's advocate
(08:21):
on the trade, I would say, over the course of
the rest of this year and next year, when Steph
misses time, this team is going to look rough because
of the fact that Jimmy is not necessarily the guy
that can scale up in that specific ability. But ultimately
that doesn't matter because this team isn't accomplishing anything unless
Steph is healthy and available anyway, and in that context,
(08:42):
his versatility is a superstar trade and it does pull
everything together. You mentioned the Andre Gudala piece to me,
where you see so much of that is just like
his nose for the ball and his ability to make
reads in screening situations, when to slip or when to curl,
when to do all these little different things. One of
the things from watching Jimmy very closely with the Warriors
(09:05):
that stood out to me is he's one of the
best people in the league at high pointing the basketball.
So like in a lot of the switching that teams
use against Golden State, he'll end up with these like
inside seals and they'll float the ball up and he
just gets it every damn time. And that has allowed
(09:25):
him to kind of like manufacture pressure on the rim
off the ball, which has been a big part of
his like spacing alongside of Steph. And so think like
I think the part that is you mentioned it is
pressure to the rim, and that's really the key his
superstar trait offensively that he's bringing, and it's coming through
all these different things as a read and react player,
Ceiling posting, ISOs, all that kind of stuff. He applies
(09:48):
real consistent night to night rim pressure next to Steph,
and that is unlocking a lot of that offensive upside.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Yeah, And and to your point on the IQ. The
game then also sticks in my mind from a defensive standpoint,
is the one against the Milwaukee Bucks. It's called a
week ago. Now, Steph sat that game. You know, they
just lost to the yokch list Nuggets, just an all
round bad loss, Like you shouldn't lose those games at home, right,
(10:17):
And then so then they go play Milwaukee and they
sit Steph because he's kind of banged up, and so
you know, you think it's gonna be lost, and it's
the opposite. And that was probably Draymond Green's like best
defensive game of the year. He took Jannis completely out
of it. And the first thing Draymond said in postgame
is it's easier for me to do that and ignore
(10:38):
help obligations when I have someone like Jimmy, who you know,
can just say I got you, I'll take care of that.
You just you meet him in half court, you take
them one on one, that sort of defensive stuff, and
that's something they've been missing for literally since they had
you know, Andre Goodal or Andrew Bogan and just like this,
you know, kind of embarrassment of riches and terms of
(11:00):
like high IQ defenders. They finally have someone who can
organize them and get them going in addition to Draymond,
and so yeah, to your point, like he does fit
exactly what the Warriors need and fits exactly perfectly next
to Steph and Draymond on both sides of the ball. Honestly, now,
it puts a lot of pressure on the other pieces
around them, because I like the way that three man
(11:21):
construct works. But I'm also not naive to the fact
that there are certain weaknesses that need to be masked
by younger legs, by shooting, by defense, some other things there.
And that's kind of really where my focus in the
Warrior season is for the rest of the way.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yeah, you know, we're going to talk about that concept
in a minute. But like there's a certain amount of
this with the Warriors that is theoretical. But what to
me is not theoretical is Steph, Jimmy and Draymond. Like
I know what I'm going to get out of the
three of them in the playoff context. It feels like
a like a known commodity to me. You know, I
remember when you're talking about the defense the I remember
(11:59):
a lot of that has tense he surrounding this deal
with Andrew Wiggins, and part of the reason why it
was like when they won the title, it was Andrew
Wiggins who was picking up Luca full court and applying
all that ball pressure. It was Andrew Wiggins who was
picking up Jason Tatum full court and playing him into
the tough series that he had in the NBA Finals.
And like, I think there's a certain amount of like
(12:20):
Jimmy's not gonna be as good as Andrew at just
guarding the other team's best player every night. But I
think there's two elements to that that have kind of
allowed it to work anyway. One Moody's been more ready
for that than that. I think people realized, like you
talked about this a lot in the time leading up
to the trade, and you were spot on on this,
(12:41):
and like again, like there's a there was a lot
of negativity surrounding the Jimmy trade leading up to it,
and you were consistent, he's Jimmy fucking Butler. Just go
get him and we figure out the rest later. And
one of the things that you kept talking about at
the time was we need to clarify the rotation. And
it has an a lot of ways clarified the rotation
(13:01):
because Moses Moody has stepped into that role and it's
been consistent. He hasn't had to worry about getting his
minutes janked with he's had this role every single night.
He's taking that specific responsibility. And where Jimmy is better
than Andrew Wiggins on the defensive end of the floor
is playmaking just all of these like little things as
like peeling off and gambling and like making plays in
(13:23):
passing lanes where he's a little bit more of an
instinctual defensive playmaker than Andrew Wiggins. And the bottom line is, statistically,
the defense has been better. They've been the second best
defense in the league over a twenty one game span.
Now that's a fourth of the season, and so I
think that's relatively undeniable at this point. I want to
talk about these role players though for a minute, because
I agree with you, like we when we know what Steph,
(13:45):
Jimmy and Draymond are. Let's start really quickly before we
get into like kaminga. Are you happy and confident in
Pods and Moody as the two other guys in that lineup.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Throwing GP two as well? Yeah, it's look they were.
They were not particularly good against Miami and to a
lesser degree, Atlanta in these stephless games, but in general
they have kind of fit the bill when we've had Steph, Jimmy,
and Draymond operational where they have a scaled down roll
where their responsibility is really just to you know, in
(14:17):
Moody's case, pure three and D player, right, you're guarding
the ball. He's had some excellent games against like Jalen Brunson,
for example, who could be a very tough cover and
kind of your quit essential like, oh, if you can't
guard the ball, he's going to dice you up, right,
like that type of guy and then ability to hit shots.
Because they're young players, they're a little consistent as well
at that and that's for me, one of the bigger
(14:40):
concerns that the Warriors is shot making outside of Steph
Curry Moses Moody is I want to say, a thirty
eight percent three point shooter on the season. The shot
looks pretty, it looks like it's going in every time,
but you know, end of the day, he's not Klay Thompson.
So and very few players are, to be fair, but
it's like it is very much the young player thing
(15:02):
where it's four for six one night, zero for six
the next night, and that type of stuff in the
playoffs could be really scary, particularly with how much the
three point shot is, you know, important in a playoff context.
And let's be honest, like how little shooting from the
outside they're gonna get from Draymond and Jimmy. I know
Draymond's been a better three point shooter last year and
(15:23):
a half, but he's probably not gonna hit five threes
in a game. He's probably not gonna take ten threes.
Most of his threes are kind of you know, end
of shot clock bailout possession type of of threes. So
there's a lot of pressure on Moses Moody to fill.
I don't want to say the role Klay Thompson phil
because that's just unrealistic, but like to fill the role
(15:44):
that someone like a Harrison Barnes or Andrew Wiggins did
where if they're left alone in the corner, they hit it.
You know, if they're left you know, if you're if
you're sending two at the ball because you have Steph Curry,
Draymond's getting downhill, then you have a man shading towards
towards Jimmy someone's open, not someone who's open will be
Moses Moody or Brandon Pajemski. And this applies actually even
(16:05):
more so for Pods. He just does more things than
shoot the ball. They have to be able to hit
those shots. So that's kind of my number one worry
with them. But to your point on the defensive side,
I actually feel pretty comfortable with this team if they
have a healthy version of Draymond Green and Jimmy Butler
being able to get those young guys in position to succeed,
(16:27):
and I think they're ready for the moment.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Defensively, if someone asked me what the biggest swing factor
is for the Warriors and the postseason. It's just those
(16:51):
guys making shots. I mean, I thought the Bucks game
was such a perfect example that they put Brook Lopez
on Gary Payton down the stretch and he just sits
his ass right underneath basket and they're gapping off of
Pods and the two of them, Pods on the right
wing and Gary on the left wing, get two just
completely uncontested threes in crunch time. They make them both
(17:12):
and it ends up being a big part of how
they win. And like there's a certain amount of like
to your point, Like, even though Andre Gudala never had
the reputation of being like this knockdown shooter, it always
felt like he made the big ones that he needed
to make in that corner.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
If it's a big game, it was going in.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Yeah, yeah, dude. And so like there's a certain amount
of like Draymond was kind of like the one guy
on the floor that you kind of had the ability
to really help off of and feel like you were
confident that he was going to miss more often than
he made. And it just like you start to add
that to two guys on the floor maybe a third
guy on the floor. That's where it can get a
(17:48):
little tricky. And so I do think that that's the
weakness there. That said, I think you could make that
same argument for some other teams around the league. I like, really,
I think the only team you the only time I
feel confident it is just going to make shots if
they're open, as Boston like, they're gonna make shots, yeah,
if they're open. But like I could see I see
Oklahoma City potentially losing a playoff series missing threes. I
(18:10):
see with like mediocre shooters getting left open. I see
Denver potentially losing a series with the mediocre players hitting threes.
The Lakers are another team that can put together groups
with Dorian Finney, Smith and Rui where all five guys
are shooters. But even then, it's like Austin Reeves is
not the best catch and shoot guy in the world.
Like there's a version of it where he can go cold.
And so I think there's a certain amount of it
(18:31):
where it's like, I think we can't overlook the fact
that they're going to be a great defense that gets
out in transition and that has Steph Curry and that yes,
these guys are gonna have to knock down shots, but
that's not necessarily a death sentence, if that makes sense. Now,
as we go deeper into the bench, the Jonathan Camena
experience I think has been uneven. I thought he was
(18:54):
really good in his first game back. What was that Sacramento?
If I remember correctly, I think it was He's really
good in that game where everything was with an advantage,
everything was towards the rim, everything was geared towards like
playing in the flow. But one of the big difference
difference is like when you sent me the numbers this
morning with him versus Gie Santos, to me, like Jonathan
(19:18):
Kaminga has the ability to make certain reads, particularly as
a cutter. When he sees like a lane open up,
he'll run to the front of the rim, and I
think there is some value in that as a play finisher.
But every other type of read and react situation on
the court, he sorely lacks behind his teammates, and I
(19:39):
think like there's a certain lack of ceiling with a
guy like Gi Santo's, but there's a certain predictability as
a catch and shoot guy and as a guy who
crashes the offensive glass every time and as a guy
who makes decisions in read and reacts situations and so like. Ultimately,
I think there's a version of this where Jonathan Kminga's
role could shrink considerably when they get into the postseason.
(20:00):
How have you felt about their early returns with cominga
alongside Jimmy and the crew, and how he fits both
in the short and long term.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
I mean, and so two different questions. In the long term,
I'm more bullish on him figuring it out, and he
does do one specific thing that this older iteration of
the Warriors really needs, which is he gets to the
rim and he's hyper athletic. Look, they're an older team.
Any any young player who can play above the rim
(20:29):
and can beat their man with their first step is
welcome on this team. In theory, he should also be
a hyperactive defender that has not necessarily shown up. But
we've seen tons of young wings with his physical profile
who look lost defensively, and then around year five or six,
it just clicks. Andrew Wiggins probably the most obvious example.
He went from being kind of a you know, having
(20:50):
a terrible reputation defensively in Minnesota to almost making, you know,
an All NBA defensive teams, right, So it happens all
the time on that end. You can't discount the physical tools.
Now in the short term, month far less optimistic because
to your point, we're ten games away from the playoffs,
and you know, they don't have fifty games for him
to figure it out. And the thing that pops to
(21:14):
me when I watch him is he wants to occupy
all the same spots on the floor that Jimmy Butler is,
but Jimmy's better at him at everything, and so he
hasn't figured out how to adapt to that. And because
he's a young player, and to your point, I don't
want to say feel is lacking, but he's just far
less mature mentally in terms of reading the game than
(21:34):
the other guys on the team. You know, probably the
biggest advantage the Warriors have going into a playoff series
is Steph, Jimmy, and Draymond will be a step ahead
of almost every one of their opponents. That those are
three of the five to seven smartest players in the NBA.
What they lack in foot speed, they make up for
a mental processing speed. So it means the other two
(21:55):
guys have to know how to play off of that
and kuminga combination of both being young and you know,
maybe not as developed as the Warriors would have liked
him to be in here for and let's just be realistic,
he missed two plus months with an injury and he's
trying to get integrated into a brand new team. That
puts him in a really rough position. Particularly since he's
not a shooter. You can't plug him in to Moses
(22:18):
Moody's role where you know, Moses Moody offensively is essentially
just gonna be, you know, standing in the corner. Most
actions are finding him camping out in the weak side
corner that if they help off of him, he gets
a wide open three. That's not going to work for Kuminga.
So to your point, if he can read the game
at the speed the Warriors like to play, you could
actually take advantage of them as a cutter, take advantage
(22:39):
of the athleticism, the ball move stuff we've seen Warriors
teams do for a decade. Right where you're just like,
how does honestly GP two master this? Right? He can't
really shoot the ball, I know, shoot the ball well now,
but nobody guards him like he's a shooter. But he
knows exactly how to play off of Stephan Draimon, and
he always seems to find himself, you know, cutting baseline
for a wide open layup or dunk. In theory, that's
(23:01):
how Kumenga can thrive with this team. It just hasn't
come to fruition. And I mean, maybe I'm a pessimist
about it, but like ten games, and these are not
games that they can just give him space either. They're
like a half game out of being in the play in,
so they need to treat every game like it's a
real game, which leads to scenarios like the Atlanta game
(23:23):
where he was playing poorly and he did not play
more than four myths in the second half. How is
he going to figure it out if he only plays
four miss in the second half. But at the same time,
the Warriors have to win games, so he's just I
don't see how this solves itself in the short term.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
I'm so glad you brought up how much this sucks
for Jonathan, because it really does. You know, there was
so much pessimism surrounding whether or not a deal would
actually get made at all in like late January, that
it turned into a situation where it almost looked like, oh,
it's Jonathan's time now, like this is about to go
the other direction, and this is going to go towards
(24:01):
we're leaning towards the future. Here are the keys, Jonathan.
You're gonna get to do your thing for extended stretches
of the game, have a long leash, get to make mistakes,
and it radically flipped to now you're coming back. There's
no way you have a starting spot. The only version
of this where you contribute to the team is where
you become this read and react player. And like I think,
(24:22):
you know, I think you have to be good at
one of two things to be a good offensive player
around Steph, Jimmy and Raymond. You either have to be
an excellent shooter or an excellent read and react player,
and he's neither, and that just puts him into a
really tough position accentuating his game. Because to your point
about occupying all the same spots on the floor, your
value as a basketball player is unique to your team.
(24:44):
It has nothing to do with what your talents are
in a vacuum. It's all theoretical in a vacuum on
your team, it's what you can do within that group,
and there's no version of this where he's going to
be playing in the playoffs with neither of Jimmy or
stuff on the floor, meaning the game is going to
have to be predicated with him playing off of those guys,
and it's just gonna be like again, when Jimmy has
(25:06):
had success offensively without Steph, it's been this whirling dervish
of these read and react guys, relocating, cutting, screening, slipping,
all this kind of stuff around him, and that part
has worked, but it's just not gonna work that way
like in the postseason context when Jonathan Kaming is out there,
He's not gonna be able to have the same kinds
(25:27):
of opportunities he did before the deadline, And so it's
just difficult, and honestly, I do feel bad for him,
and like I do wonder what this does look like
in the big picture, because Steph talked about it the
other day, it seems to me like there's been an
organizational commitment that they're trying this next year too, right,
so it seems like this is a two year window,
like we're going for it, We're gonna try to make
this happen, and like you talk about ten games I
(25:49):
don't necessarily see a version of this where he blossoms
into that player next year either, And so I think
this could be a challenging stretch for Jonathan in his career,
and I'm really curious just to see how he adapts
to it, because before the deadline he had leverage in
the sense that he could go to the media and
be like, what the hell are we doing here? Like
we're not very good? Why am I not getting an
(26:11):
opportunity to show what I can do? Like what's the deal?
Whereas like, there is this clear, obvious championship ceiling with
the Warriors now, and Jonathan has to find a way
to kind of conform into that and it's just difficult.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Yeah, I mean, he's kinda it's tough break. I don't
know what else to say. Like the pre trade deadline Warriors,
I love how you pointed out Jimmy Butler's defensive playmaking.
I would say the number one thing they lacked on
both ends of the floor was playmaking pre trade, and
Jimmy addresses both those things. Now, he's not a perfect player,
you know, like the perfect edition would have been the
(26:43):
honest he also addresses both those things. Both it's literally
higher ceiling, right. So but he you know now that
he takes care of your wing playmaker, a guy who
you can run a pick and roll for and ISO
operate out of the post. Those were all the best
places that Kuminga was starting to find success. I don't
(27:04):
gonna say he's found total successor that's what he was
starting to develop. And he's just he's not equipped at
this point to be Harrison Barnes or Andrew Wiggins, who
is who they need. Like in a perfect world, if
he was ready to be the twenty fifteen Harrison Barnes
who could hit open shots and knew how to play
off of staff Igudala, Draymond Clay or Andrew Wiggins who's
(27:28):
proven he could do that, and in many ways that
is his ideal role. I think he would be starting games,
and I know he would be closing games as that
third front court player. But the SHOT's not there. He's
also just a hesitant shooter. He's not three point sho
that's not really his game. And you know he's not
there defensively either. He's just kind of in a rough spot.
It's easier to play gis aantos because gist aantos is
(27:50):
those things even if it's you know, with a lower ceiling.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
The hesitance is almost like worse than the actual not
making of the shot, because like defenses prey on that
with short closeouts and they just bait on the fact
that we don't even think you're gonna take it, like
let alone, let alone knock it down. But I mean,
you know, I talked earlier about like the runways that
he operates on, like these gaps that appear around the
rim where he'll just jet to the front of the rim.
And the truth of the matter is is as the
(28:15):
defenses get better, those runways just don't appear very often,
and it becomes about playing in tight space and it
becomes about making those decisions and split second processing speed
and all that kind of stuff, and it's just it's
just tough. Let's get zoom out a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Okay, So.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Sixteen and four with Jimmy, we know that there have
been a handful of impressive wins in there, but that
they've played a relatively light schedule. Sure, as we go
down the stretch of the season, they do have some
big games, Like I know they have one against the Lakers,
Do I think do they won more against the Thunder.
I think they played. I think they played.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
They do not play the Thunder again. That they do
have Denver at least one more time, and I think
it gets they might. Yeah, I feel like they've played Houston.
They do, actually, right, it's one of their last games.
I swear they've played Houston four times this year. I
felt like they played Houston three times. Yeah, there you go.
(29:12):
They also have the Clippers at the end of the season,
last game of the season. There's a very realistic chance
that will literally decide you know, the seventh seed, six,
six to seven, whatever it may be. So, yeah, they
have a you know what sucks about this Steph injury
is Atlanta and Miami looked like easy wins with Steph
Curry and they drop both of those. Like this road
(29:32):
trip really should have been where they picked up the
easy wins. You got the Pelicans tonight, you got the Spurs,
you got a reeling Grizzlies team. These are theoretically all
very winnable games for the Warriors before they get into
a tougher stretch of Lakers, Nuggets, Rockets, Sons who have
life again, and Clippers and those type of teams.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Yeah, and like the Suns Clippers games are gonna be
the tougher ones because just having routed, I mean, we're
familiar with rooting for playing team Sam, We've done it
over the course of years.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Nobody knows the playing better than you and me.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
We we like know that like those games against the
higher leverage teams, who the hell knows who's gonna play
in those games or the level of intensity, and like,
it could end up being that those Sons, Clippers, the
other play in type of teams are the ones that
end up giving the tougher fights. But the point is,
the bottom line is we're not gonna get to see
this team play a good amount of you know, high
(30:27):
leverage basketball before they're actually in the high leverage basketball.
And so there's a certain amount of this that is
theoretical just with what this team can or cannot do.
So given that we're gonna take that and set it
to the side that we all agree that a certain
amount of this is conjecture. And I mean, I'm here's
the thing. It's conjecture for every team in the league,
but just a little bit more so for the Warriors
(30:49):
because of the stuff that's gone down with the schedule
and with Steph's injuries. So with the amount of information
that you have, how are you feeling right now in
terms of your level of optimism for this team a
potential playoff run.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Barely optimistic somewhere. I feel like they have a puncher's
chance to get out of the West. I did not
feel like they had a realistic chance to do anything
the last two years. So they you know, are they
the odds on favorite? No? Do I think the Vegas odds,
which has somewhere like third or fourth most like it
come out of the West, is accurate. Yeah, I think
(31:24):
they really could. I actually think the twenty or so
games they've played with Jimmy are indicative of the type
of team they are. They have the best defense in
that span. I'm not gonna say they have the best
defense in the league, but I do think they have
a top five defense with Jimmy Butler, and I think
that will translate in the playoffs. And they've been the
ninth best offense. I would actually say that's probably even
(31:46):
a little on the high side. I think they're somewhere
around the tenth to twelfth best offense in the league,
and so that's the kind of team you're talking about here.
I think they can defend. They can keep themselves in
most every matchup in the playoffs, and it really comes
down to do they get enough shot making around Steph Curry.
They've been they get a bunch of open threes for
Moses Moody, for Brandon Pajemski, for Gary Payton, the second
(32:09):
who looks reborn by the way, just overall as a player,
he looks like he did during the title run, both
defensively and offensively. For Kuminga, you know he's gonna get
if the shot comes around in the next month, like
they will give him wide open shots because of the
way that they guard the Warriors, And so yeah, my
question is do they have enough shot making? And then
(32:32):
if the shot making does not come around, the size question,
because they're gonna play small. They play well small, but
like Moses Moody at power forward is very small, you
know what I'm saying. Like they're playing Jimmy and Draymond
and Moses Moody and Brandon Pajemski and Steph Curry. That's
(32:54):
their best lineup right now. That's significantly smaller than their
famous death lineups. Their death lineup was small because Draymond's
too small to play center. But if you just accept
that he's an anomaly of a human, they actually were
not small. They had six seven guys with seven plus
foot wingspans all across the perimeter. In some ways, it's
(33:15):
like the makeup that the Lakers have where you're like, okay,
there's no real center here. But I would not call
them a small team. They're large across the perimeter. It's
just a question if they can piece meal the center position.
And so you know, like Denver, Denver is gonna be
a rough matchup for them because Aaron Gordon's huge for
a wing and he kind of takes away that wing
(33:35):
advantage that they have. And then Jokic is Jokic, right, Like,
those are my question marks for them, But like on
the flip side, as great as Okac is now, the
size isn't really as big of an issue. Okay, so
he plays the same size guys. Obviously they're excellent. They
had their record says it. So I don't know. I
think they have a real they have a realistic chance.
They do have exploitable flaws, but I think that's true
(33:56):
of every team in the West. It's a very it's
a very good Western conference. I'm not sure there's a
great team in this conference.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Yeah, or they're all great teams. That's the like relative
Like that's the other thing too, is like you know,
I was looking at it too, like like Oklahoma City
might get Minnesota in the first round. What a shit
end of the stick for going sixty to twelve to
start the season. I was like, such a huge pain
of the ass. The Yeah, I love the part the
point you made about the size because like like just
basically Andre Guidala is a bigger and more imposing athlete
(34:25):
than either of Jimmy Butler.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
And Moses Moody.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Just to give you an idea of like the difference
in the physical profile of those teams. Like add Kevin
Durant to the picture. It's an entirely different stratosphere of
a play.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Is the same size as Jimmy Butler, Clay played the two.
Jimmy's kind of the four, you know, like that's what
you need to know. Right there they were, they were
big across the perimeter, and then Draymond's just kind of
you know, it's once in a generation sixty six you
could play a center. Dude.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
I this ultimately is why I view them as a
legitimate puncher's chance threat. First of all, I like phase one,
don't overthink it. It's Jimmy at step as Draymond put
them in a playoff series. You mentioned the processing speed,
even just the experience, the confidence, the level of comfortability
they're gonna experience in those environments. You mentioned the defense
(35:12):
to me, like like to me, the Lakers with the
number one defense in the league for a few months,
and they are a good defense. But with Luca, I
look at them at their best as somewhere in that
six to ten range as a defense, Like I don't
actually think they have the level of imposition athletically that
they can cause problems for teams at the level of
(35:35):
a top five defense. I think Golden State does have
that level of defense. That level of defense, to your point,
will keep you in every game, and if you're in
every game, there's a certain amount of like, if this
guy makes a couple of shots, we end up winning it,
you know, And as long as they generate enough quality ones,
they've got a good chance. I'm glad you brought up
the size. Ironically, I'm actually more worried, like I think
(35:55):
Denver and the Lakers present different issues for Golden State
with size, the Lakers with their just massive forwards that
are just going to be picking on smalls all over
the place in Denver with the Jokic problem. But I
could also flip that around and I can go one
of the most impressive teams against OKC and Boston this
year has been Golden State. They've looked good at times
(36:16):
in those matchups and have caused them real problems before
Jimmy Butler came to town. And so when I look
at it, like a big part of their punchers chance
is like to me, they match up well with the
top teams in the league, and there's a certain amount
of this like with matchups they might not have to
face both Denver and LA They might not have to
face either of them. If things go a certain way,
(36:37):
like you don't know how this could end up shaking out,
like they could end up catching it.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
A dream scenario for the Warriors would be Lakers in
Denver getting stuck together round one, just so it's right
off the bat, one of them are eliminated.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Yeah, exactly exactly, And that's the wildcard with the Western Conference.
It's always so difficult the factor in. But like you mentioned,
like to me, all the teams have flaws. I think
we can all agree that the Thunder and the Celtics
are a level above to a certain extent. I think
it's a smaller level above than some other people think.
Like I've I talked to people who think, and I'm
sure you do too, that that think, Okay, Oklahoma City
(37:09):
is just a runaway Western Conference favorite. I don't see
it that way. I view them as a slight Western
Conference favorite. I think that when you've got a rotation
full of dudes who are twenty six and younger, they're
gonna win a shit ton of games, like especially when
they're talented, because they're just so young and so you know,
indomitable as athletes in the regular sas.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
They don't come out looking tired on the third game
and four nights the way the Warriors are Lakers might exactly.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
And by the way, even the Celtics have a certain
amount of like age and fatigue in their in their rotation.
That I think that that I think factors in. But
but ultimately, ultimately all of these teams have exploitable flaws.
All of them, to me, are beatable and so like.
That's why I don't think it makes a ton of
sense to hyper focus on any team's flaw, whether it's
the Lakers in their center, if it's Denver in their
(37:52):
lack of defense, or it's Golden State and their lack
of shot making. It just I think I think all
of these teams have a certain amount of law. So, okay,
we have a couple more minutes, really quick, what does
this summer look like? Let's just say, because I think
there's a version of this where they get their ass
kicked in the first round, where it could be a
little bit more complicated. But let's say that they make
a run to at least the second or third round,
(38:14):
and they put up a really good fight and they
end up losing. What does this summer look like for
the Warriors in your opinion?
Speaker 1 (38:20):
I mean, the first decision is Jonathan Kuminga and then
it's Domino's from there. I think if you are committed
to Steph, Jimmy and Draymond, you have to use the
summer to optimize the roster around their strengths and weaknesses.
They kind of put this together on the fly. We've
learned some things. This He's like, we've learned, Like this
(38:40):
is exactly what they needed to turn Moses Moody into
a real rotation player. You know, Brandon Pajemski looks really
good next to him. He's probably back next year. Kuminga.
I could see them coming away from the playoffs being like,
he started figuring it out towards the end of it,
and we really need his legs because Jimmy gonna miss
twenty games, Steph's gonna miss twenty games, and it's just
(39:04):
gonna be nice to have someone who can carry the
load in November December those times. I could also see
them being like, you know what, it's not happening. Let's
see what sign and trade possibilities are out there. So
I think it's all on the table right now. I
think if you were to talk to them off the record,
they would probably say the same thing. Their best case
scenario is Kumika figures it out because it's one less complication.
(39:27):
It's always easier to just keep someone in house than
have to go out there and try to make a deal.
So I think that's I think that's the first thing
they have to figure out. From there. It's scaling the
market for players who are probably under thirty, because you
have an older core looking for more shot making, looking
for more front court shot making. Specifically, Quinton Post has
(39:49):
been an amazing find for them. I don't know how
much he's gonna play in the playoffs, just because young
big who doesn't really profile as a defender anyway. Hard
to play those guys in the playoff. Finding another piece
like that, I think that's where they go. There is
also the you know, insane scenario where a Supermax player
(40:09):
becomes available and they trade Jimmy because now they have
the contract to match it. I do not think that'll happen,
but I do think they would do it if they
could get Giannis.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
So yeah, Giannis is the wild card that I could
see him coming available this year.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
I'm just not betting on anything like that happening because
it's so unlikely. But hey, I didn't have Luka Doncic
getting moved at the dead of night on February first
happening either, so I cannot rule anything out anymore. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
One of the rare examples in NBA or in anything
where the conspiracy theories make more sense than the reality
of what happened exactly. This is my last question for you,
mid level exception this summer, under the circumstances that we
laid out, would you rather have a big that let's
call it a versatile big that can does something really well,
(41:01):
whether it's shoot the ball or protect the rims super well,
something like that. Like let's just say, like, let's just
take like a Miles Turner for example. Let's say like
a guy like Miles Turner was available for the MLLE,
which by the way, he might not be he probably
won't be, or a shot creating like a perimeter ball
handler type. What do you think is more important?
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Uh, give me a guy with positional size who can
drain threes. Because I do agree with you. The Warriors
have for years kind of like turn their nose up
at like the sixth man bucket getter type, and I
think on the net aggregate, they're right, those guys tend
to be overvalued and overpaid. But games where Steph doesn't play,
(41:41):
You're like, man, it'd be really nice to have. It'd
be really nice to have like a you know, like
a Lou Williams or someone like that, that type of player, Right,
I do think it's more realistic for them to find
like a Shake Milton or someone like that on a
veteran minimum than an mL, whereas Mlee, I'm shooting for
someone who's in my eight man playoff rotation. It's not
(42:02):
someone who's spelling STEP's legs. So he plays sixty five
games a year in a perfect world to get both.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
But yeah, I think I think the way you laid
it out is perfect. I think ultimately, if you're spending
you know, twelve million dollars on a player, it needs
to be someone that's in your playoff rotation.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
Like this is perfect, a perfect example. I was gonna say,
like Danthony Melton was a perfect example of that because
you know, great defender and he can hit open shots.
But you know, didn't happen.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Dude, do you think that it'd be interesting to see
if he came back at some point because I think
he was a really good fit h during the short
bit that we got to see him. Sam, this is
all all we have time for today. I sincerely appreciate
you joining us. It's been awesome to hear your close
perspective on the team. Will you just shout out light
years tell everybody where they can find your stuff?
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Yeah, pretty simple. Search light Years any place you get
a podcast, Apple, Spotify, YouTube, whatever it is. We are
live after basically every game, additional content at outside of
those postgame shows. Just check us out there and subscribe.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
It was good to see you, man, I'm looking forward
to next time. Thank you all for supporting us and
for supporting the show. I hope all of you guys
have an incredible weekend and we will see you on Monday.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
What's up guys?
Speaker 2 (43:16):
As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting
OOPS tonight. It would actually be really helpful for us
if you guys would take a second and leave a
rating and a review. As always, I appreciate you guys
supporting us, but if you could take a minute to
do that
Speaker 1 (43:28):
I'd really appreciate it.
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co slash audio. All right, wellcome to hoops tonight. You're
(01:45):
at the volume. Hay Friday, everybody. I hope all of
you guys have had a great week. We have a
very special guest today, my friend Sam's Fondiari, who covers
the Warriors with the Light Years podcast. They the Warriors
have played twenty games with Jimmy Butler. They have a
little bit of a break here before they play against
the New Orleans Pelicans tonight and I'm expecting Steph Curry
to make his return. But I thought it was a
(02:07):
great time for us to just kind of zoom out
and take a look at the early returns of Jimmy.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Butler with the Warriors.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
I was talking about this on the radio the other day,
But the Warriors and the Lakers to me, have undergone
such complete turnover in their play style and what they're
capable of over the course of the time since the
deadline that we almost have to completely reevaluate them and
what they're capable of. And I could think of nobody
better than Sam. First of all, how are you, man?
(02:35):
It's been a long time since we've done a pod together,
but I'm looking forward to this. It's gonna be fun.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Oh, I'm good overall, good of recording this. After the
Heat game, that was an emotional game. I don't know
how else to put it. It felt like a big
one and then it felt pretty deflating. But overall, it's
been good in Warriors Land since they made the Jimmy
Butler trade. Technically twenty one games. He sat one of them,
(03:01):
but I'll take sixteen and five.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yeah, that's right. He did sit out one of them.
I was joking with you last night because I've watched
quite a bit of Heat lately, just because they've had
a few national TV games and we've covered him on
the show a little bit, and they've been so lifeless.
And then last night they just had it. They had
the verb and you said to me, and it's like
you and I every time we've talked about the game,
(03:24):
we've always been just drawn to just competitiveness and competitors
and that nasty streak, And like you were, like, you
know what, I got handed to the to the Heat.
They wanted it like they they they clearly this meant
something to them, and they went after they got it done.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, I mean to me, if you don't understand how
good Bam out of Bio is, throw that game on.
He guarded Jimmy Butler, which like how many starting centers
can just you know, you can decide, you know from
opening tip, we're gonna have you guard the other team's
star wing. It's like him and Draymond and Lo and Behold,
those are two guys who tend to punch above their
(04:01):
weight in the playoffs. Every year they make the playoffs.
So yeah, you know, hat tip to them heat culture.
It's a real thing. Even if I was wondering if
it was a real thing after they went on a
losing streak when they lost Jimmy, It's still a real thing.
Kat Riley is a Hall of Famer for a reason.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
So we've had twenty games. I you know, I think
the experience of being a true fan in basketball is
really unique. I've been kind of embracing it because I
know when Lebron retires, I'm going to struggle with that
because I like, I won't really have that type of
fanhood anymore because I live in twos on Arizona. I
don't really have a team, so to speak, And when
(04:40):
Lebron retires, I just won't have that kind of like
sentimental attachment to anything. And so rooting for Luka doncicch like,
actually rooting for Luka Doncicic has given me such a
unique experience, like learning about him as a basketball player.
I think, I think truly rooting for a player you
just learn so much. And so you've I've been truly
(05:00):
rooting for Jimmy Butler. Now for twenty games. What has
that experience been like? What have you been surprised by
what have you really loved about his game? Just talk
a little bit about what that's been like.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
I mean, he was one of my favorite non Warriors
over the last decade. I always found myself rooting for
the Heat in the playoffs, you know, Eastern Conference. I
have no attachment to anyone, and I just love the
way they play, and you know, he's had some memorable
playoff modes, so I felt like I knew him. But
to your point, it's just not the same as when
you're watching every game opening tip to the end, and
(05:34):
so the things that jump out to me are like
I thought he would be a good fit on the
Warriors because there's such a premium on IQ and ball
movement in passing, and it's gone like five levels above
what I thought it would be. I thought there'd also
be a little friction because he's traditionally been a little
of an ISO player and the Warriors are traditionally not
(05:55):
that type of team, and it's been the complete opposite.
I mean, he's like essentially playing like Andrea Gudala, but
with the ability to get to the rim and the
free throw line. So that's been surprising. Other than that,
I don't know that the other aspects of it have
necessarily been that surprising. We've gone through kind of the
(06:16):
ebbs and flow of how he asserts himself. He's an
interesting player in the fact that he has a superstar
impact on the game, Like when you look at all
the advanced metrics, he always grades out as one of
the ten to fifteen best players just in terms of
impacting winning, But he's not really an offensive superstar. You
(06:36):
think of those playoff moments where he scored forty plus
and you think he's more of kind of your traditional
I'm gonna go get a bucket type of guy, and
that's been the thing that watching him more, it's like, yeah,
there'll be moments he does it, but that's really not
his game at all. So I guess that's kind of
been the other surprising thing.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Yeah, you know, it's fascinating because I think you could
make the case that the war are best equipped to
pull superstar level winning impact out of Jimmy Butler in
this phase of his career. You sent me some numbers earlier,
and we're gonna talk about it with uh with Jonathan
Kaminga here in a little bit, But just some of
the difference and on off numbers between him with kaminga
(07:15):
versus a guy like Gie Santos, where it's like crisp
quick decision making that all fits within the flow of
what they do in their five out offense, versus a
guy that like has more of a specific lane that
he thrives in and if things are operating in that lane,
then he looks super impactful. But when it gets outside
of that, he can struggle. And like I think with
Jimmy's versatility, there is a downside, and I think we
(07:38):
saw a little bit of it last night in the
sense that, like, if you with that without Steph, if
he's entirely out of the picture because he's injured, you're
not gonna get twenty five and eight from him every night.
That's not necessarily a level he can get to any more.
But within within the context of Steph being available, he's
(07:59):
more than capable of lifting these bench units. And they've
been really good this year with Steph off the floor
with Jimmy on like, they've been astonishingly good. I want
to say the net rating is almost plus twenty per
one hundred possessions. They're killing teams. In that context, it
is a little bit of a different journey, and I
think there's some like if I was playing Devil's advocate
(08:21):
on the trade, I would say, over the course of
the rest of this year and next year, when Steph
misses time, this team is going to look rough because
of the fact that Jimmy is not necessarily the guy
that can scale up in that specific ability. But ultimately
that doesn't matter because this team isn't accomplishing anything unless
Steph is healthy and available anyway, and in that context,
(08:42):
his versatility is a superstar trade and it does pull
everything together. You mentioned the Andre Gudala piece to me,
where you see so much of that is just like
his nose for the ball and his ability to make
reads in screening situations, when to slip or when to curl,
when to do all these little different things. One of
the things from watching Jimmy very closely with the Warriors
(09:05):
that stood out to me is he's one of the
best people in the league at high pointing the basketball.
So like in a lot of the switching that teams
use against Golden State, he'll end up with these like
inside seals and they'll float the ball up and he
just gets it every damn time. And that has allowed
(09:25):
him to kind of like manufacture pressure on the rim
off the ball, which has been a big part of
his like spacing alongside of Steph. And so think like
I think the part that is you mentioned it is
pressure to the rim, and that's really the key his
superstar trait offensively that he's bringing, and it's coming through
all these different things as a read and react player,
Ceiling posting, ISOs, all that kind of stuff. He applies
(09:48):
real consistent night to night rim pressure next to Steph,
and that is unlocking a lot of that offensive upside.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Yeah, And and to your point on the IQ. The
game then also sticks in my mind from a defensive standpoint,
is the one against the Milwaukee Bucks. It's called a
week ago. Now, Steph sat that game. You know, they
just lost to the yokch list Nuggets, just an all
round bad loss, Like you shouldn't lose those games at home, right,
(10:17):
And then so then they go play Milwaukee and they
sit Steph because he's kind of banged up, and so
you know, you think it's gonna be lost, and it's
the opposite. And that was probably Draymond Green's like best
defensive game of the year. He took Jannis completely out
of it. And the first thing Draymond said in postgame
is it's easier for me to do that and ignore
(10:38):
help obligations when I have someone like Jimmy, who you know,
can just say I got you, I'll take care of that.
You just you meet him in half court, you take
them one on one, that sort of defensive stuff, and
that's something they've been missing for literally since they had
you know, Andre Goodal or Andrew Bogan and just like this,
you know, kind of embarrassment of riches and terms of
(11:00):
like high IQ defenders. They finally have someone who can
organize them and get them going in addition to Draymond,
and so yeah, to your point, like he does fit
exactly what the Warriors need and fits exactly perfectly next
to Steph and Draymond on both sides of the ball. Honestly, now,
it puts a lot of pressure on the other pieces
around them, because I like the way that three man
(11:21):
construct works. But I'm also not naive to the fact
that there are certain weaknesses that need to be masked
by younger legs, by shooting, by defense, some other things there.
And that's kind of really where my focus in the
Warrior season is for the rest of the way.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yeah, you know, we're going to talk about that concept
in a minute. But like there's a certain amount of
this with the Warriors that is theoretical. But what to
me is not theoretical is Steph, Jimmy and Draymond. Like
I know what I'm going to get out of the
three of them in the playoff context. It feels like
a like a known commodity to me. You know, I
remember when you're talking about the defense the I remember
(11:59):
a lot of that has tense he surrounding this deal
with Andrew Wiggins, and part of the reason why it
was like when they won the title, it was Andrew
Wiggins who was picking up Luca full court and applying
all that ball pressure. It was Andrew Wiggins who was
picking up Jason Tatum full court and playing him into
the tough series that he had in the NBA Finals.
And like, I think there's a certain amount of like
(12:20):
Jimmy's not gonna be as good as Andrew at just
guarding the other team's best player every night. But I
think there's two elements to that that have kind of
allowed it to work anyway. One Moody's been more ready
for that than that. I think people realized, like you
talked about this a lot in the time leading up
to the trade, and you were spot on on this,
(12:41):
and like again, like there's a there was a lot
of negativity surrounding the Jimmy trade leading up to it,
and you were consistent, he's Jimmy fucking Butler. Just go
get him and we figure out the rest later. And
one of the things that you kept talking about at
the time was we need to clarify the rotation. And
it has an a lot of ways clarified the rotation
(13:01):
because Moses Moody has stepped into that role and it's
been consistent. He hasn't had to worry about getting his
minutes janked with he's had this role every single night.
He's taking that specific responsibility. And where Jimmy is better
than Andrew Wiggins on the defensive end of the floor
is playmaking just all of these like little things as
like peeling off and gambling and like making plays in
(13:23):
passing lanes where he's a little bit more of an
instinctual defensive playmaker than Andrew Wiggins. And the bottom line is, statistically,
the defense has been better. They've been the second best
defense in the league over a twenty one game span.
Now that's a fourth of the season, and so I
think that's relatively undeniable at this point. I want to
talk about these role players though for a minute, because
I agree with you, like we when we know what Steph,
(13:45):
Jimmy and Draymond are. Let's start really quickly before we
get into like kaminga. Are you happy and confident in
Pods and Moody as the two other guys in that lineup.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Throwing GP two as well? Yeah, it's look they were.
They were not particularly good against Miami and to a
lesser degree, Atlanta in these stephless games, but in general
they have kind of fit the bill when we've had Steph, Jimmy,
and Draymond operational where they have a scaled down roll
where their responsibility is really just to you know, in
(14:17):
Moody's case, pure three and D player, right, you're guarding
the ball. He's had some excellent games against like Jalen Brunson,
for example, who could be a very tough cover and
kind of your quit essential like, oh, if you can't
guard the ball, he's going to dice you up, right,
like that type of guy and then ability to hit shots.
Because they're young players, they're a little consistent as well
at that and that's for me, one of the bigger
(14:40):
concerns that the Warriors is shot making outside of Steph
Curry Moses Moody is I want to say, a thirty
eight percent three point shooter on the season. The shot
looks pretty, it looks like it's going in every time,
but you know, end of the day, he's not Klay Thompson.
So and very few players are, to be fair, but
it's like it is very much the young player thing
(15:02):
where it's four for six one night, zero for six
the next night, and that type of stuff in the
playoffs could be really scary, particularly with how much the
three point shot is, you know, important in a playoff context.
And let's be honest, like how little shooting from the
outside they're gonna get from Draymond and Jimmy. I know
Draymond's been a better three point shooter last year and
(15:23):
a half, but he's probably not gonna hit five threes
in a game. He's probably not gonna take ten threes.
Most of his threes are kind of you know, end
of shot clock bailout possession type of of threes. So
there's a lot of pressure on Moses Moody to fill.
I don't want to say the role Klay Thompson phil
because that's just unrealistic, but like to fill the role
(15:44):
that someone like a Harrison Barnes or Andrew Wiggins did
where if they're left alone in the corner, they hit it.
You know, if they're left you know, if you're if
you're sending two at the ball because you have Steph Curry,
Draymond's getting downhill, then you have a man shading towards
towards Jimmy someone's open, not someone who's open will be
Moses Moody or Brandon Pajemski. And this applies actually even
(16:05):
more so for Pods. He just does more things than
shoot the ball. They have to be able to hit
those shots. So that's kind of my number one worry
with them. But to your point on the defensive side,
I actually feel pretty comfortable with this team if they
have a healthy version of Draymond Green and Jimmy Butler
being able to get those young guys in position to succeed,
(16:27):
and I think they're ready for the moment.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Defensively, if someone asked me what the biggest swing factor
is for the Warriors and the postseason. It's just those
(16:51):
guys making shots. I mean, I thought the Bucks game
was such a perfect example that they put Brook Lopez
on Gary Payton down the stretch and he just sits
his ass right underneath basket and they're gapping off of
Pods and the two of them, Pods on the right
wing and Gary on the left wing, get two just
completely uncontested threes in crunch time. They make them both
(17:12):
and it ends up being a big part of how
they win. And like there's a certain amount of like
to your point, Like, even though Andre Gudala never had
the reputation of being like this knockdown shooter, it always
felt like he made the big ones that he needed
to make in that corner.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
If it's a big game, it was going in.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Yeah, yeah, dude. And so like there's a certain amount
of like Draymond was kind of like the one guy
on the floor that you kind of had the ability
to really help off of and feel like you were
confident that he was going to miss more often than
he made. And it just like you start to add
that to two guys on the floor maybe a third
guy on the floor. That's where it can get a
(17:48):
little tricky. And so I do think that that's the
weakness there. That said, I think you could make that
same argument for some other teams around the league. I like, really,
I think the only team you the only time I
feel confident it is just going to make shots if
they're open, as Boston like, they're gonna make shots, yeah,
if they're open. But like I could see I see
Oklahoma City potentially losing a playoff series missing threes. I
(18:10):
see with like mediocre shooters getting left open. I see
Denver potentially losing a series with the mediocre players hitting threes.
The Lakers are another team that can put together groups
with Dorian Finney, Smith and Rui where all five guys
are shooters. But even then, it's like Austin Reeves is
not the best catch and shoot guy in the world.
Like there's a version of it where he can go cold.
And so I think there's a certain amount of it
(18:31):
where it's like, I think we can't overlook the fact
that they're going to be a great defense that gets
out in transition and that has Steph Curry and that yes,
these guys are gonna have to knock down shots, but
that's not necessarily a death sentence, if that makes sense. Now,
as we go deeper into the bench, the Jonathan Camena
experience I think has been uneven. I thought he was
(18:54):
really good in his first game back. What was that Sacramento?
If I remember correctly, I think it was He's really
good in that game where everything was with an advantage,
everything was towards the rim, everything was geared towards like
playing in the flow. But one of the big difference
difference is like when you sent me the numbers this
morning with him versus Gie Santos, to me, like Jonathan
(19:18):
Kaminga has the ability to make certain reads, particularly as
a cutter. When he sees like a lane open up,
he'll run to the front of the rim, and I
think there is some value in that as a play finisher.
But every other type of read and react situation on
the court, he sorely lacks behind his teammates, and I
(19:39):
think like there's a certain lack of ceiling with a
guy like Gi Santo's, but there's a certain predictability as
a catch and shoot guy and as a guy who
crashes the offensive glass every time and as a guy
who makes decisions in read and reacts situations and so like. Ultimately,
I think there's a version of this where Jonathan Kminga's
role could shrink considerably when they get into the postseason.
(20:00):
How have you felt about their early returns with cominga
alongside Jimmy and the crew, and how he fits both
in the short and long term.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
I mean, and so two different questions. In the long term,
I'm more bullish on him figuring it out, and he
does do one specific thing that this older iteration of
the Warriors really needs, which is he gets to the
rim and he's hyper athletic. Look, they're an older team.
Any any young player who can play above the rim
(20:29):
and can beat their man with their first step is
welcome on this team. In theory, he should also be
a hyperactive defender that has not necessarily shown up. But
we've seen tons of young wings with his physical profile
who look lost defensively, and then around year five or six,
it just clicks. Andrew Wiggins probably the most obvious example.
He went from being kind of a you know, having
(20:50):
a terrible reputation defensively in Minnesota to almost making, you know,
an All NBA defensive teams, right, So it happens all
the time on that end. You can't discount the physical tools.
Now in the short term, month far less optimistic because
to your point, we're ten games away from the playoffs,
and you know, they don't have fifty games for him
to figure it out. And the thing that pops to
(21:14):
me when I watch him is he wants to occupy
all the same spots on the floor that Jimmy Butler is,
but Jimmy's better at him at everything, and so he
hasn't figured out how to adapt to that. And because
he's a young player, and to your point, I don't
want to say feel is lacking, but he's just far
less mature mentally in terms of reading the game than
(21:34):
the other guys on the team. You know, probably the
biggest advantage the Warriors have going into a playoff series
is Steph, Jimmy, and Draymond will be a step ahead
of almost every one of their opponents. That those are
three of the five to seven smartest players in the NBA.
What they lack in foot speed, they make up for
a mental processing speed. So it means the other two
(21:55):
guys have to know how to play off of that
and kuminga combination of both being young and you know,
maybe not as developed as the Warriors would have liked
him to be in here for and let's just be realistic,
he missed two plus months with an injury and he's
trying to get integrated into a brand new team. That
puts him in a really rough position. Particularly since he's
not a shooter. You can't plug him in to Moses
(22:18):
Moody's role where you know, Moses Moody offensively is essentially
just gonna be, you know, standing in the corner. Most
actions are finding him camping out in the weak side
corner that if they help off of him, he gets
a wide open three. That's not going to work for Kuminga.
So to your point, if he can read the game
at the speed the Warriors like to play, you could
actually take advantage of them as a cutter, take advantage
(22:39):
of the athleticism, the ball move stuff we've seen Warriors
teams do for a decade. Right where you're just like,
how does honestly GP two master this? Right? He can't
really shoot the ball, I know, shoot the ball well now,
but nobody guards him like he's a shooter. But he
knows exactly how to play off of Stephan Draimon, and
he always seems to find himself, you know, cutting baseline
for a wide open layup or dunk. In theory, that's
(23:01):
how Kumenga can thrive with this team. It just hasn't
come to fruition. And I mean, maybe I'm a pessimist
about it, but like ten games, and these are not
games that they can just give him space either. They're
like a half game out of being in the play in,
so they need to treat every game like it's a
real game, which leads to scenarios like the Atlanta game
(23:23):
where he was playing poorly and he did not play
more than four myths in the second half. How is
he going to figure it out if he only plays
four miss in the second half. But at the same time,
the Warriors have to win games, so he's just I
don't see how this solves itself in the short term.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
I'm so glad you brought up how much this sucks
for Jonathan, because it really does. You know, there was
so much pessimism surrounding whether or not a deal would
actually get made at all in like late January, that
it turned into a situation where it almost looked like, oh,
it's Jonathan's time now, like this is about to go
the other direction, and this is going to go towards
(24:01):
we're leaning towards the future. Here are the keys, Jonathan.
You're gonna get to do your thing for extended stretches
of the game, have a long leash, get to make mistakes,
and it radically flipped to now you're coming back. There's
no way you have a starting spot. The only version
of this where you contribute to the team is where
you become this read and react player. And like I think,
(24:22):
you know, I think you have to be good at
one of two things to be a good offensive player
around Steph, Jimmy and Raymond. You either have to be
an excellent shooter or an excellent read and react player,
and he's neither, and that just puts him into a
really tough position accentuating his game. Because to your point
about occupying all the same spots on the floor, your
value as a basketball player is unique to your team.
(24:44):
It has nothing to do with what your talents are
in a vacuum. It's all theoretical in a vacuum on
your team, it's what you can do within that group,
and there's no version of this where he's going to
be playing in the playoffs with neither of Jimmy or
stuff on the floor, meaning the game is going to
have to be predicated with him playing off of those guys,
and it's just gonna be like again, when Jimmy has
(25:06):
had success offensively without Steph, it's been this whirling dervish
of these read and react guys, relocating, cutting, screening, slipping,
all this kind of stuff around him, and that part
has worked, but it's just not gonna work that way
like in the postseason context when Jonathan Kaming is out there,
He's not gonna be able to have the same kinds
(25:27):
of opportunities he did before the deadline, And so it's
just difficult, and honestly, I do feel bad for him,
and like I do wonder what this does look like
in the big picture, because Steph talked about it the
other day, it seems to me like there's been an
organizational commitment that they're trying this next year too, right,
so it seems like this is a two year window,
like we're going for it, We're gonna try to make
this happen, and like you talk about ten games I
(25:49):
don't necessarily see a version of this where he blossoms
into that player next year either, And so I think
this could be a challenging stretch for Jonathan in his career,
and I'm really curious just to see how he adapts
to it, because before the deadline he had leverage in
the sense that he could go to the media and
be like, what the hell are we doing here? Like
we're not very good? Why am I not getting an
(26:11):
opportunity to show what I can do? Like what's the deal?
Whereas like, there is this clear, obvious championship ceiling with
the Warriors now, and Jonathan has to find a way
to kind of conform into that and it's just difficult.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Yeah, I mean, he's kinda it's tough break. I don't
know what else to say. Like the pre trade deadline Warriors,
I love how you pointed out Jimmy Butler's defensive playmaking.
I would say the number one thing they lacked on
both ends of the floor was playmaking pre trade, and
Jimmy addresses both those things. Now, he's not a perfect player,
you know, like the perfect edition would have been the
(26:43):
honest he also addresses both those things. Both it's literally
higher ceiling, right. So but he you know now that
he takes care of your wing playmaker, a guy who
you can run a pick and roll for and ISO
operate out of the post. Those were all the best
places that Kuminga was starting to find success. I don't
(27:04):
gonna say he's found total successor that's what he was
starting to develop. And he's just he's not equipped at
this point to be Harrison Barnes or Andrew Wiggins, who
is who they need. Like in a perfect world, if
he was ready to be the twenty fifteen Harrison Barnes
who could hit open shots and knew how to play
off of staff Igudala, Draymond Clay or Andrew Wiggins who's
(27:28):
proven he could do that, and in many ways that
is his ideal role. I think he would be starting games,
and I know he would be closing games as that
third front court player. But the SHOT's not there. He's
also just a hesitant shooter. He's not three point sho
that's not really his game. And you know he's not
there defensively either. He's just kind of in a rough spot.
It's easier to play gis aantos because gist aantos is
(27:50):
those things even if it's you know, with a lower ceiling.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
The hesitance is almost like worse than the actual not
making of the shot, because like defenses prey on that
with short closeouts and they just bait on the fact
that we don't even think you're gonna take it, like
let alone, let alone knock it down. But I mean,
you know, I talked earlier about like the runways that
he operates on, like these gaps that appear around the
rim where he'll just jet to the front of the rim.
And the truth of the matter is is as the
(28:15):
defenses get better, those runways just don't appear very often,
and it becomes about playing in tight space and it
becomes about making those decisions and split second processing speed
and all that kind of stuff, and it's just it's
just tough. Let's get zoom out a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Okay, So.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Sixteen and four with Jimmy, we know that there have
been a handful of impressive wins in there, but that
they've played a relatively light schedule. Sure, as we go
down the stretch of the season, they do have some
big games, Like I know they have one against the Lakers,
Do I think do they won more against the Thunder.
I think they played. I think they played.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
They do not play the Thunder again. That they do
have Denver at least one more time, and I think
it gets they might. Yeah, I feel like they've played Houston.
They do, actually, right, it's one of their last games.
I swear they've played Houston four times this year. I
felt like they played Houston three times. Yeah, there you go.
(29:12):
They also have the Clippers at the end of the season,
last game of the season. There's a very realistic chance
that will literally decide you know, the seventh seed, six,
six to seven, whatever it may be. So, yeah, they
have a you know what sucks about this Steph injury
is Atlanta and Miami looked like easy wins with Steph
Curry and they drop both of those. Like this road
(29:32):
trip really should have been where they picked up the
easy wins. You got the Pelicans tonight, you got the Spurs,
you got a reeling Grizzlies team. These are theoretically all
very winnable games for the Warriors before they get into
a tougher stretch of Lakers, Nuggets, Rockets, Sons who have
life again, and Clippers and those type of teams.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Yeah, and like the Suns Clippers games are gonna be
the tougher ones because just having routed, I mean, we're
familiar with rooting for playing team Sam, We've done it
over the course of years.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Nobody knows the playing better than you and me.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
We we like know that like those games against the
higher leverage teams, who the hell knows who's gonna play
in those games or the level of intensity, and like,
it could end up being that those Sons, Clippers, the
other play in type of teams are the ones that
end up giving the tougher fights. But the point is,
the bottom line is we're not gonna get to see
this team play a good amount of you know, high
(30:27):
leverage basketball before they're actually in the high leverage basketball.
And so there's a certain amount of this that is
theoretical just with what this team can or cannot do.
So given that we're gonna take that and set it
to the side that we all agree that a certain
amount of this is conjecture. And I mean, I'm here's
the thing. It's conjecture for every team in the league,
but just a little bit more so for the Warriors
(30:49):
because of the stuff that's gone down with the schedule
and with Steph's injuries. So with the amount of information
that you have, how are you feeling right now in
terms of your level of optimism for this team a
potential playoff run.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Barely optimistic somewhere. I feel like they have a puncher's
chance to get out of the West. I did not
feel like they had a realistic chance to do anything
the last two years. So they you know, are they
the odds on favorite? No? Do I think the Vegas odds,
which has somewhere like third or fourth most like it
come out of the West, is accurate. Yeah, I think
(31:24):
they really could. I actually think the twenty or so
games they've played with Jimmy are indicative of the type
of team they are. They have the best defense in
that span. I'm not gonna say they have the best
defense in the league, but I do think they have
a top five defense with Jimmy Butler, and I think
that will translate in the playoffs. And they've been the
ninth best offense. I would actually say that's probably even
(31:46):
a little on the high side. I think they're somewhere
around the tenth to twelfth best offense in the league,
and so that's the kind of team you're talking about here.
I think they can defend. They can keep themselves in
most every matchup in the playoffs, and it really comes
down to do they get enough shot making around Steph Curry.
They've been they get a bunch of open threes for
Moses Moody, for Brandon Pajemski, for Gary Payton, the second
(32:09):
who looks reborn by the way, just overall as a player,
he looks like he did during the title run, both
defensively and offensively. For Kuminga, you know he's gonna get
if the shot comes around in the next month, like
they will give him wide open shots because of the
way that they guard the Warriors, And so yeah, my
question is do they have enough shot making? And then
(32:32):
if the shot making does not come around, the size question,
because they're gonna play small. They play well small, but
like Moses Moody at power forward is very small, you
know what I'm saying. Like they're playing Jimmy and Draymond
and Moses Moody and Brandon Pajemski and Steph Curry. That's
(32:54):
their best lineup right now. That's significantly smaller than their
famous death lineups. Their death lineup was small because Draymond's
too small to play center. But if you just accept
that he's an anomaly of a human, they actually were
not small. They had six seven guys with seven plus
foot wingspans all across the perimeter. In some ways, it's
(33:15):
like the makeup that the Lakers have where you're like, okay,
there's no real center here. But I would not call
them a small team. They're large across the perimeter. It's
just a question if they can piece meal the center position.
And so you know, like Denver, Denver is gonna be
a rough matchup for them because Aaron Gordon's huge for
a wing and he kind of takes away that wing
(33:35):
advantage that they have. And then Jokic is Jokic, right, Like,
those are my question marks for them, But like on
the flip side, as great as Okac is now, the
size isn't really as big of an issue. Okay, so
he plays the same size guys. Obviously they're excellent. They
had their record says it. So I don't know. I
think they have a real they have a realistic chance.
They do have exploitable flaws, but I think that's true
(33:56):
of every team in the West. It's a very it's
a very good Western conference. I'm not sure there's a
great team in this conference.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Yeah, or they're all great teams. That's the like relative
Like that's the other thing too, is like you know,
I was looking at it too, like like Oklahoma City
might get Minnesota in the first round. What a shit
end of the stick for going sixty to twelve to
start the season. I was like, such a huge pain
of the ass. The Yeah, I love the part the
point you made about the size because like like just
basically Andre Guidala is a bigger and more imposing athlete
(34:25):
than either of Jimmy Butler.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
And Moses Moody.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Just to give you an idea of like the difference
in the physical profile of those teams. Like add Kevin
Durant to the picture. It's an entirely different stratosphere of
a play.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Is the same size as Jimmy Butler, Clay played the two.
Jimmy's kind of the four, you know, like that's what
you need to know. Right there they were, they were
big across the perimeter, and then Draymond's just kind of
you know, it's once in a generation sixty six you
could play a center. Dude.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
I this ultimately is why I view them as a
legitimate puncher's chance threat. First of all, I like phase one,
don't overthink it. It's Jimmy at step as Draymond put
them in a playoff series. You mentioned the processing speed,
even just the experience, the confidence, the level of comfortability
they're gonna experience in those environments. You mentioned the defense
(35:12):
to me, like like to me, the Lakers with the
number one defense in the league for a few months,
and they are a good defense. But with Luca, I
look at them at their best as somewhere in that
six to ten range as a defense, Like I don't
actually think they have the level of imposition athletically that
they can cause problems for teams at the level of
(35:35):
a top five defense. I think Golden State does have
that level of defense. That level of defense, to your point,
will keep you in every game, and if you're in
every game, there's a certain amount of like, if this
guy makes a couple of shots, we end up winning it,
you know, And as long as they generate enough quality ones,
they've got a good chance. I'm glad you brought up
the size. Ironically, I'm actually more worried, like I think
(35:55):
Denver and the Lakers present different issues for Golden State
with size, the Lakers with their just massive forwards that
are just going to be picking on smalls all over
the place in Denver with the Jokic problem. But I
could also flip that around and I can go one
of the most impressive teams against OKC and Boston this
year has been Golden State. They've looked good at times
(36:16):
in those matchups and have caused them real problems before
Jimmy Butler came to town. And so when I look
at it, like a big part of their punchers chance
is like to me, they match up well with the
top teams in the league, and there's a certain amount
of this like with matchups they might not have to
face both Denver and LA They might not have to
face either of them. If things go a certain way,
(36:37):
like you don't know how this could end up shaking out,
like they could end up catching it.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
A dream scenario for the Warriors would be Lakers in
Denver getting stuck together round one, just so it's right
off the bat, one of them are eliminated.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Yeah, exactly exactly, And that's the wildcard with the Western Conference.
It's always so difficult the factor in. But like you mentioned,
like to me, all the teams have flaws. I think
we can all agree that the Thunder and the Celtics
are a level above to a certain extent. I think
it's a smaller level above than some other people think.
Like I've I talked to people who think, and I'm
sure you do too, that that think, Okay, Oklahoma City
(37:09):
is just a runaway Western Conference favorite. I don't see
it that way. I view them as a slight Western
Conference favorite. I think that when you've got a rotation
full of dudes who are twenty six and younger, they're
gonna win a shit ton of games, like especially when
they're talented, because they're just so young and so you know,
indomitable as athletes in the regular sas.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
They don't come out looking tired on the third game
and four nights the way the Warriors are Lakers might exactly.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
And by the way, even the Celtics have a certain
amount of like age and fatigue in their in their rotation.
That I think that that I think factors in. But
but ultimately, ultimately all of these teams have exploitable flaws.
All of them, to me, are beatable and so like.
That's why I don't think it makes a ton of
sense to hyper focus on any team's flaw, whether it's
the Lakers in their center, if it's Denver in their
(37:52):
lack of defense, or it's Golden State and their lack
of shot making. It just I think I think all
of these teams have a certain amount of law. So, okay,
we have a couple more minutes, really quick, what does
this summer look like? Let's just say, because I think
there's a version of this where they get their ass
kicked in the first round, where it could be a
little bit more complicated. But let's say that they make
a run to at least the second or third round,
(38:14):
and they put up a really good fight and they
end up losing. What does this summer look like for
the Warriors in your opinion?
Speaker 1 (38:20):
I mean, the first decision is Jonathan Kuminga and then
it's Domino's from there. I think if you are committed
to Steph, Jimmy and Draymond, you have to use the
summer to optimize the roster around their strengths and weaknesses.
They kind of put this together on the fly. We've
learned some things. This He's like, we've learned, Like this
(38:40):
is exactly what they needed to turn Moses Moody into
a real rotation player. You know, Brandon Pajemski looks really
good next to him. He's probably back next year. Kuminga.
I could see them coming away from the playoffs being like,
he started figuring it out towards the end of it,
and we really need his legs because Jimmy gonna miss
twenty games, Steph's gonna miss twenty games, and it's just
(39:04):
gonna be nice to have someone who can carry the
load in November December those times. I could also see
them being like, you know what, it's not happening. Let's
see what sign and trade possibilities are out there. So
I think it's all on the table right now. I
think if you were to talk to them off the record,
they would probably say the same thing. Their best case
scenario is Kumika figures it out because it's one less complication.
(39:27):
It's always easier to just keep someone in house than
have to go out there and try to make a deal.
So I think that's I think that's the first thing
they have to figure out. From there. It's scaling the
market for players who are probably under thirty, because you
have an older core looking for more shot making, looking
for more front court shot making. Specifically, Quinton Post has
(39:49):
been an amazing find for them. I don't know how
much he's gonna play in the playoffs, just because young
big who doesn't really profile as a defender anyway. Hard
to play those guys in the playoff. Finding another piece
like that, I think that's where they go. There is
also the you know, insane scenario where a Supermax player
(40:09):
becomes available and they trade Jimmy because now they have
the contract to match it. I do not think that'll happen,
but I do think they would do it if they
could get Giannis.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
So yeah, Giannis is the wild card that I could
see him coming available this year.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
I'm just not betting on anything like that happening because
it's so unlikely. But hey, I didn't have Luka Doncic
getting moved at the dead of night on February first
happening either, so I cannot rule anything out anymore. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
One of the rare examples in NBA or in anything
where the conspiracy theories make more sense than the reality
of what happened exactly. This is my last question for you,
mid level exception this summer, under the circumstances that we
laid out, would you rather have a big that let's
call it a versatile big that can does something really well,
(41:01):
whether it's shoot the ball or protect the rims super well,
something like that. Like let's just say, like, let's just
take like a Miles Turner for example. Let's say like
a guy like Miles Turner was available for the MLLE,
which by the way, he might not be he probably
won't be, or a shot creating like a perimeter ball
handler type. What do you think is more important?
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Uh, give me a guy with positional size who can
drain threes. Because I do agree with you. The Warriors
have for years kind of like turn their nose up
at like the sixth man bucket getter type, and I
think on the net aggregate, they're right, those guys tend
to be overvalued and overpaid. But games where Steph doesn't play,
(41:41):
You're like, man, it'd be really nice to have. It'd
be really nice to have like a you know, like
a Lou Williams or someone like that, that type of player, Right,
I do think it's more realistic for them to find
like a Shake Milton or someone like that on a
veteran minimum than an mL, whereas Mlee, I'm shooting for
someone who's in my eight man playoff rotation. It's not
(42:02):
someone who's spelling STEP's legs. So he plays sixty five
games a year in a perfect world to get both.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
But yeah, I think I think the way you laid
it out is perfect. I think ultimately, if you're spending
you know, twelve million dollars on a player, it needs
to be someone that's in your playoff rotation.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
Like this is perfect, a perfect example. I was gonna say,
like Danthony Melton was a perfect example of that because
you know, great defender and he can hit open shots.
But you know, didn't happen.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Dude, do you think that it'd be interesting to see
if he came back at some point because I think
he was a really good fit h during the short
bit that we got to see him. Sam, this is
all all we have time for today. I sincerely appreciate
you joining us. It's been awesome to hear your close
perspective on the team. Will you just shout out light
years tell everybody where they can find your stuff?
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Yeah, pretty simple. Search light Years any place you get
a podcast, Apple, Spotify, YouTube, whatever it is. We are
live after basically every game, additional content at outside of
those postgame shows. Just check us out there and subscribe.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
It was good to see you, man, I'm looking forward
to next time. Thank you all for supporting us and
for supporting the show. I hope all of you guys
have an incredible weekend and we will see you on Monday.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
What's up guys?
Speaker 2 (43:16):
As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting
OOPS tonight. It would actually be really helpful for us
if you guys would take a second and leave a
rating and a review. As always, I appreciate you guys
supporting us, but if you could take a minute to
do that
Speaker 1 (43:28):
I'd really appreciate it.
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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