April 30, 2025 • 41 mins
Thoughts on Eli Manning trying to be a minor honor and how bad the Giants have been recently
Greg Cosell from NFL Films joins the show to breakdown the top picks from the NFL draft and how they'll fit with their new teams
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Here we go. It is hour two.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
We are live in Chicago.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
It's the Herd. Wherever you may be and however you
may be listening. Thanks for making us part of your day. Jmax,
Jmax got you know, my wife even pointed this out yesterday.
Jmax got the the floral shirts. You got the big robust,
dynamic shirts. You know, I'm doing a professional business. Look
over here and one of us to go out in
the shirt we're wearing. So credit to you. And it's
(00:51):
like spoos your wardrobe box, hey, Jmax, like bringing the
A game on the wardrobe.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Victoria and company did a great joab Hey. I was
talking with a couple producers during the break.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Who wins in a battle one hundred adult males or
one gorilla?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Yeah, I've heard that thing.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
It's fascinating.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
No real strong opinion. Apparently it's taken over the internet.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
Yes, so come on, get off the fence, big guy
who you got at one time?
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Yeah, I probably take the adults probably, Okay, I mean again,
this is something I haven't spent one second on the
away hot to show prep would take precedence over this. Okay.
So there we'll get to Greg co sail in a
couple of minutes. Eli Manning is putting a bid together
for a minority interest in the Giants. So I know, Eli,
(01:38):
I really like this idea. Since Eli Manning moved out
of his prime, the New York Giants have been They've
made so many bad decisions. Nick, I like Brian Dabole.
Finally they have a coach I like, and he better winner.
He's gone by Thanksgiving. But they've made so many bad
decisions head coaches, quarterbacks, general managers. That's upstairs stuff. Ask
(02:01):
yourself this, when's the last time the Hunt family with
the Chiefs butchered a free agent quarterback signing or missed
on a first round quarterback signing draft. It just doesn't
happen very often. Since twenty seventeen, the Giants are last
in wins and thirty first in point differential and points
(02:22):
per game and sack differential. It's a bad franchise that's upstairs.
Stop blaming the coaches, Stop blaming the players. That's upstairs.
Like if you look at consistently, it's not a coincidence
that Washington ran out the worst owner in the league
and tripled their win total. It's not just Jayden Daniels.
Jaden doesn't do it without the right coordinator, the right
(02:45):
general manager, the right culture. Jaden would not have done
that with the previous group. They just kept getting in
their way. And I'll say this, you can trust elive
and I know. I'll give you an example of why
I like the Manning family. Arch Manning goes to Texas.
So Texas is a massive football brand like Ohio State, Michigan,
(03:07):
Notre Dame Texas big. Arch Manning doesn't get a start
first year, second year, And by the way, I think
he's better than quin yours. I think if he would
have been in the draft this year without starting in college,
somebody would have taken him in the second round. I
really believed that this quarterback draft somebody would have taken
arch Manning second and said we're going to go with Jeans.
(03:28):
Archie was good. Eli was good. Peyton, We're just going
to go with Jeans, and yet he didn't transfer. He's
been a team player. It's so Manning like dignity, thoughtful class.
New York Giants. They got an upstairs problem, I said,
the Chicago Bears finally with Ben Johnson like controlling the
(03:51):
draft Chicago for years. Detroit before Dan Campbell and their
new GM and executive suite, Detroit had an upstairs problem.
They didn't have a quarterback problem. That Stafford was great.
So we always look in this sport, whenever a team loses,
it's the coach. No, Washington had an upstairs problem. The
Giants do. That doesn't mean the Mars are totally inept,
(04:13):
but they need a fresh set of eyes and ears
and the Mannings they make really good decisions. Football decisions,
parenting decisions, business decisions. They just make really good decisions.
With that forty five years NFL films. Greg Coseller is
joining us, so let's just talk football to get all
(04:33):
the other nonsense. If Pittsburgh so the Rams, my understanding,
didn't really Shador was not on their board as a starter.
They like Jackson Dart. New York Giants liked Jackson Dart
over Shador. There's nothing wrong with that. I had a
friend of mine who's a former GM. He liked Jackson
Dart a lot, not as much as cam Ward, but
(04:55):
he liked him more than Shad. He liked him a lot. So,
and I think everybody thinks cam was the best court
back in a week class Pittsburgh Steelers. According to the
Pittsburgh Post Gazette, a reporter there, we're not in the
starting quarterback hunt. They looked at next year. I'm told
the Rams looked at next year. The Browns trading down early,
(05:16):
told you next year's class, we'll go get backups this year.
So if I was a GM and I wasn't into
Shadors playing, what on film did you watch that you
believe Greg could turn a general manager off and just
not see him as an elite quarterback prospect.
Speaker 5 (05:37):
Well, I think that that I think relates to what
the league has become Colin for starting quality starting quarterbacks.
We're talking about guys that were top five quarterbacks in
the league. Because if you're drafting Sanders high, that's what
you're expecting him to be a top five quarterback in
the league. So what you're dealing with is a player
who's essentially a pocket quarterback. If he's to become a
(05:58):
really good quarterback in the NFL, at his core, he's
a pocket player. Now, he's not immobile, it's not as
if he's a statue, but at his core he would
have to be successful as a pocket player and as
a pocket quarterback. His traits are good, not great. So
where does that kind of player get drafted in the NFL?
Speaker 6 (06:17):
And what does he become in the NFL?
Speaker 5 (06:19):
He's a pocket quarterback with good traits, he's a lower
level CJ.
Speaker 6 (06:24):
Stroud. CJ.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
Stroud is essentially a pocket quarterback, is bigger, he's a
better thrower.
Speaker 6 (06:31):
So CJ.
Speaker 5 (06:32):
Stroud, who was drafted second and has done well in
his first two years. Sanders is a similar style quarterback
in terms of his approach to the way in which
he plays, but he's not as gifted. He's smaller and
doesn't throw it as well. So where does that player
get drafted? That's why he was all over the board
just as a player, putting everything else aside. I had
(06:54):
coaches tell me that they thought he was a backup.
I had coaches tell me he was a first round pick.
I had coaches tell me he's a third round pick.
So he was all over the board because his traits
are not quite at the level where it's unanimous or
obvious as to what he projects to be at the
NFL level.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
So again, let's keep it to football.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
If you were to draft Jackson Dart over him, because
I know two people that prefer Jackson Dart, what did
you see about Jackson Dart that a GM would go, Oh,
I like that, that's better than Shador.
Speaker 5 (07:26):
Well, that gets into the same question. I think you
have the mobility factor. I think Jackson thought. While he's
not explosive and dynamic, Jackson Dart, his legs are a factor.
So now you get into the fact that he can
make plays on third down with his legs, and that
changes the way defenses have to play. See, the thing
is you have to think about now the NFL. We're
(07:46):
not just doing this in a vacuum. We're projecting players,
and you see him right here. We're projecting players to
play in the NFL and what that means. So the
fact that he can beat you with his legs means
that that changes at times in critical down in distant situations.
Speaker 6 (08:01):
The way defenses have to play.
Speaker 5 (08:03):
His arm is probably as good or maybe even a
little better than Sanders, and he has that mobility and
that's a key key factor. So Jackson Dart could easily
be seen, and he was by some teams just the
football part, as a better prospect than your Dorr Sanders.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
So it's interesting, I thought the Bears because the last
two years in free agents, I know, I said, Greg,
they're going to go defense. They didn't. They went offense again.
I mean last year they did it draft and free agency.
This year they did it free agency and draft. So
Ben Johnson saying, listen, I'm going to clean up my
(08:42):
side of the ball. We'll get the defense later. So
they go Colston Loveland, Luther Burden, who's a really could
be a very interesting hut, and Ozzie Tepedo, who Matt Hasselbeck,
by the.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Way, likes, what did you make it do?
Speaker 6 (08:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (08:57):
What did you make of those first three picks? And
how they'll help Caleb Williams.
Speaker 6 (09:02):
Well, they're going to play a lot of twelve personnel.
Speaker 5 (09:04):
You know, a lot of people thought they'd take Tyler Warren,
But Tyler Warren is a redundancy for them because Cole
Kamets stylistically is the same kind of player. We could
say Warren's better, but stylistically, in the context of their offense,
they're the same player.
Speaker 6 (09:18):
So they went with the more athletic a tight end
in Lovelin.
Speaker 5 (09:23):
Who gives them more so they'll play with twelve personnel
at the times and they'll be really difficult.
Speaker 6 (09:28):
And then Luthor Burden.
Speaker 5 (09:29):
I mean, I loved Luthor Burdon's tape and I think
Luth the Burden in the context of a Ben Johnson offense.
And I'm not going to sit here and say he's
going to do exactly what Alman Ross Saint Brown did,
because you never know. But I think that he stylistically
fits that role in a Ben Johnson offense. And I
think you know with Burden, now they can line up
in twelve personnel with two tight ends. They can line
(09:51):
up in eleven personnel with a Duneesa Moore and Burden.
I mean, this is a really, really good offense in
terms of the skill players. And Trapill didn't surprise me
at all that he went where he did. I studied
his tape. He's a really good player. He played right
tackle at BC. They're going to have to make a
decision as to whom becomes the left tackle, whether they
(10:11):
can move Trapello there, who's played that in college, or
Darnell Wright, who's been their right tackle. But Trapillo is
a really, really good prospect. So I love what they
did on the offensive side of the ball.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
So it was pretty obvious. There were certain teams, and
I think the Chargers are one where I had had
dinner with their offensive coordinator a couple of days a
week before the draft actually, and he said, listen, we
have a really good football team. We need a little
bit more juice on offense. Well they went and got
it with Trey Harris and Hampton. Let's talk about the Chargers.
(10:43):
Let's talk about Hampton the running back in Trey Harris.
What does that provide that they didn't have last year?
Speaker 6 (10:50):
Well, I love Murray and Hampton. I loved his tape.
Speaker 5 (10:53):
I didn't think there was much of a difference at
all between Hampton and Genty. To me, Hampton just looked
like a feature foundation back on tape. Some people thought,
and I could see that that there were similarities to
Jonathan Taylor stylistically, and he is clearly the kind of
back that you could give the ball twenty times a
game too. We know it's Greg Roman. We know they
(11:13):
want to run the football, you know. We know that's
the way they play. That's foundationally how they want to
start their offense. So now you get the play action
pass game off of that. And last year they had
pretty good success at times with the play action pass game,
so now they can do more of it.
Speaker 6 (11:28):
Harris is an intriguing guy.
Speaker 5 (11:30):
I watched him last summer Colin from twenty twenty three
when he had a big year. This year, he got
hurt after seven games. I saw every game, every snap.
I kept going back and forth on him. He's I
just wasn't sure if he was a vertical dimension in
the league. He's long and he has stride length, but
he didn't run real well. And I'm just really curious
as to what he will be. I'm a little uncertain
(11:51):
about him, but I know a lot of people liked him.
I just kept going back and forth in my mind.
I'm very curious to see what he becomes in the
National Football League. But the Hampton pick I absolutely love that.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
So I was told that Seattle wants to play Jalen
Milroe in six or seven plays a game, is that
they just think he's too athletic not to get on
the field. And I mean, I mean there were times
with Lamar Jackson, you watched them his first year, you're like,
is he the best athlete on either team? I mean
Michael Vick at that component. Milroe is a sensational acthlete. Yeah,
(12:25):
we know he can be a bit mechanical. But what
does he do from your film study that you think
immediately translates to production in the NFL?
Speaker 5 (12:35):
Now, Well, I think one of the things that's become
really big in this league, and you see it with
the Eagles, you certainly see it with Lamar is the
importance of the quarterback run game, the design quarterback runs
a game in the red zone. And I think that's
where Milroe can be a factor. Don't forget that McDonald
(12:55):
spent a year or so with Baltimore, so he knows
all about the quarterback run game and the design of
it and how it can really break down and attack defenses.
And that's where I think Milroe can become a factor.
But I actually really like Seattle's draft as a whole.
Colin and they traded up to get they traded up
to get Nick Mnwari, and I'm sure all of us
(13:16):
immediately thought that's Kyle Hamilton and the Mike McDonald defense
because they're they're stylistically similar players, so their defense and
maybe people are sleeping on it, but what they've done
defensively this offseason and what they've built defensively, they could
be one of the best defensive teams in the NFL
this year.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Yeah, No, he was. He was the safety from South Carolina.
I was told this by a couple of people. He was.
He's kind of a can't miss. He's just so ra
so athletic. There are very few guys that can't miss,
and you know, you'd think, oh, we go in the
first round, but safety's a different position. But he kind
of feels like I can't miss in the NFL. So
(13:54):
I want to go back to Travis Hunter. So you
looked at him as a corner and you look at
him as a receiver. If I said to you, yeah, Greg,
he ended up being a pro bowler at one position.
If you had to guess based on your film story,
there was what he was good at both, but one
of them he becomes a pro bowler. Which side would
you predict.
Speaker 5 (14:16):
I mean he's you know, I think that early on
he would have a better chance of being a pro
bowler as a receiver than as a corner. Interesting because
I think as a I think as a corner we
know about the physical traits, but you watch his tape
and as a corner he doesn't really play with any
technique because he's never had to, and I think in
(14:37):
the NFL he'll have to. But I think the larger
question with Travis Hunter, and again I don't listen to
what everybody says Collins, so I don't know if this
has been talked about, but I think the larger issue
is not whether he can play one hundred and fifteen
or one hundred twenty snaps the game. Maybe he's just
that freak that can. But the issue is preparation during
the week. He can't be in the offensive and the
(14:58):
defensive meetings at the same time. And you know how coaches,
how anal coaches are about their meetings and their details
and their nuance, and you know you just can't be
in both meetings.
Speaker 6 (15:09):
There's not enough hours in the day.
Speaker 5 (15:11):
So I'm very curious to see how that works, because
you can't be part of both sides of the ball
in all the detail that's required.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yeah, finally, when you looked at Ashton Genty's tape, I
imagine the Oregon game. The Oregon game is one that
you really zoned it on. Because they have NFL players everywhere,
it is harder to make a guess air playing smaller schools.
What is the one The first time you looked at
Ashton Jenny who was now a Raider, the first time
you looked at his tape and went, Okay, this is
(15:42):
you know, it's Boise State. This is real. This is
a real difference makeup. Was there something that popped for
you at tendency or a trick that you had seen
before and went, yeah, that's McCaffrey or that's whoever.
Speaker 5 (15:55):
Well, contact balance, because you're going to get hit in
the NFL, you've got to run inside between the tackles.
You can't be a great back in the NFL by
just running on the perimeter. So he has this unique
ability to absorb hits and keep going without.
Speaker 6 (16:11):
Really losing any of his momentum. And that's a rare trait.
Speaker 5 (16:14):
So to me, his best trade is contact balance, and
that's something that is absolutely essential now he's got other
traits as well.
Speaker 6 (16:21):
I don't want to make it seem like that's his
only trade.
Speaker 5 (16:24):
Obviously he's a great, great prospect, but I think the
contact balance part is really really special.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
By the way, I want to add this, I watched
virtually every pick, and I know it didn't have a
lot of stars, but it's hard to convince me there
weren't a lot of good players. When Cody Simon, or
Rio State linebacker went in the fourth, I thought he
was a really good player. I mean it was a
heart and soul to that defense. And Damian Martinez, who
(16:53):
I watch playing, Yeah that time, Greg, I can't believe
it round running back. You didn't get it either.
Speaker 6 (17:00):
Yeah, no, that to me.
Speaker 5 (17:02):
And again, all I can tell you is how I
evaluate the players. I'm not one who too speaks about
whether teams did a good job or bad job, because
they've got thirty people doing this and these guys work
really hard. But I really like Damian Martinez. I watched
him last summer when he was at Oregon State. I
watched him this year at the University of Miami. I
think this guy in the right system could actually be
(17:23):
a feature back and to be honest with you, and
we'll see how it plays out. We'll see how it
plays out in camp. But I personally think he's a
better runner. Now again, there may be other elements here,
but he's a better runner than Zach Charbonay. And you know,
Zach Scharboney right now is the number two back in Seattle.
So we'll see how it plays out through OTA's mini
camp and training camp. But I really like Damian Martinez.
(17:45):
I was really surprised he went in the seventh round.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah, now, no, that jumped out to me. I said, okay,
you can tell me this isn't a great draft. That
is an NFL You think he's a feature back. All
I know is that guy I watched him in college.
He was five yards of carry over people run past him.
He was five yards of carry.
Speaker 6 (18:03):
And power translates. You know, that's the thing.
Speaker 5 (18:06):
There's a lot of great athletes in the NFL, as
we know, Colin, but power is one thing at all
positions that normally translates, and he's a powerful runner.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Greg Cosel forty five years NFL Films. Good seeing again,
smart stuff as always, Greg.
Speaker 6 (18:21):
Thanks, Colin, really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
You bet. How about that J Mack the one guy
in the draft. I went, what, how is he a
seventh round player? You know, J Mack, I may bail
on the show and end up being a scout here.
Speaker 6 (18:33):
In the very in their future.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
What area scout in Chicago? Come on, you gotta be going.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
To Big ten games outdoors in November. Stop it, You're
not being a scout college.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Okay, Hey, I'm taking the train to work. I'm a
new guy. That's almost just a man of the people.
I like it.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Bright pink shirts on national television.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
No, I'm not one more heard. The Herd streams twenty
four hours a day, seven days a week within the
iHeartRadio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand
whenever you like.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
All right, welcome back, Chris Bruce chardleby joining us last hour.
A lot of NBA stuff to talk about. Jason Tatum
has officially arrived. By the way the Lakers played tonight,
they're big favorites. I don't know. I think they'll be
inspired because JJ Reddick got kind of beat up by
the media. We'll see jmck with the news.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
This is the Herd line news.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
All right, let's get started with Lakers, Wolves, Lakers were
four and a half point favorites.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
It's up to.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Six, Colin, you might be onto something. Let's talk about
Anthony Edwards. He had that forty three point performance in
Game four, a lot of physicality at trash talking. Chris Finch,
guest of this show, has not been surprising. I've been
with him long enough to know that doubting him is
not a really good strategy.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
He has a great sense of the moment.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Colin, we saw three teams last night have a chance
to close it out. Boston did right, but the nick
did not have the urgency.
Speaker 6 (20:02):
Right.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
I'm sure you noticed that Pacers did not have the urgency.
They were able to pull it off lucky late. I'm
just curious. Do you think the Wolves closed it out
tonight at Crypto?
Speaker 3 (20:11):
I don't. I think the Lakers survived.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
It is interesting though, we talked about the earlier story
when Zach Lowe came out a respected NBA analyst and said, yeah,
like lucas a bad defensive player. I was thinking, well,
he is. He's a bad defensive right, he's a bad Yeah,
he's pretty bad. I mean teams pick on him. That's
a pretty good indicate. Karl Anthony Town teams pick on
(20:35):
and that's the first sign you're not good. It's like
a cornerback in the NFL. If a team a quarterback
goes after you, you're the weak corner. So it's interesting
a year ago, if I would have said three years ago,
if I would have said to you John Morant or Ant,
the league would have taken job. If I said a
year ago Luca or Ant, the league would have taken Luca.
I bet you have the GMS today watching this series
(20:59):
Ants defense. I mean it's been impressive. Yes, I'm telling you.
Michael Jordan when he came into this league was all offense.
And then I mean it was it was. It was
a great offensive player, but he was all relentless. But
Michael over time became a great basketball teammate as well.
It was he couldn't win those playoffs series or you know,
(21:20):
for years until Pippin arrives. You start watching Ant. He
has now jumped over the Zion Jahn Morant crowd that
he was behind. I think you look at Luca and
let's be honest here, lucas not in the shape and
is he doesn't defend. And now Ant's giving you the
same high level of offense. If you're asking me who
(21:41):
I would take next ten years, I would take Ant easily.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Cor it that Luca Slander must stop. Okay, let's slow down.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
He was injured in miss like twenty five games this
year and he was traded. That being said on Ant specifically,
he's been unstoppable. I saw crazy status. Now, Colin, He's
had seventy ISO plays in this year. Do you want
to know how many times the Lakers have double teamed
Anthony Edwards? Of those seventy isolations, it's a trick question.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Eight zero zero doubles from JJ Reddick.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
Now, part of that could be because Randall is forty five
percent from three in the series.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
He can't miss.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
McDaniels is forty two percent from three. They're not missing,
So you can't double Ant.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Right, those guys are hitting, you're gonna get blown out.
Those games in Minnesota were a coin toss games.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
I hate to say this because you know, I love
to think I know everything about basketball. I don't know
what Reddick can do here other than hey man, DFS
Austin Reids. You're on an island with Ant. You gotta
just either let him get two, don't let.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Him get three. Well, the other thing we've seen in
these playoffs Historically role players shrink in the postseason, especially
on the road. We all love Austin Reeves, but when
you watch the tatums and the star players in this league,
(22:59):
Jamal Murray, who's always been not an All Star but
really good, he's rising in big moments. Austin Reeves has
had a lot of bad halves, like a lot, and
that's one of those things. That's why I say about
Rock pretty not doubting he's a franchiser. I'm not doubting
Austin's the lakers third best player, but it does feel
like Austin. As the league has allowed more physicality, it
(23:24):
has hurt Austin Reeves game a little bit.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
I don't think that's wrong.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
He did have I think five threes last game and
a good look to tie the game at the end.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
The thing about like, I.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
Think Ant is a tougher matchup than SGA, and I
know SCA is gonna win MVP, but he's not a
great three point shooter. Ant led the league in three
point makes like I mean, I know we call him
the free throw merchant SGA, but Aunt to me is
a tougher defender, like the Lakers don't have it.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
What are you put on them, Colin Lebron, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Yeah. And here's the other thing is that the Tea
Wolves played in more clutch games, more close games. It's
a big benefit. Now we've talked about this before. Is
that the Detroit Lions last year blew. I mean, go
back to their first twelve weeks the year before, go
(24:12):
back to the Ravens first thirteen weeks, and then you
get into the playoffs and like, well, time out, it's
all situational Minnesota. Well, how many four point games was
Minnesota in this year? And it's been in these games
so many times. They're just built for playoff basketball, in
close games.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
I got Lakers tonight, You do as well. Lakers money line.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
I think I would take the six and a half
with Minnesota. I think the Lakers survived. That's a lot
of points to give up to a team that doesn't
trust their bench. I mean, Lakers reddicks, say what you want?
Does not want to play Jackson Hayes against the team
that's already bigger.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Well maybe that's a problem. Coming home gave.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
Vincent shows up, This could be ten points.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
That's it. Let's go to the NFL colin.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
Everybody's waiting for Aaron Rodgers' decision. Everyone thinks it will
be to Steelers. Well, your favorite podcaster, Ben Roethlisberger has
jottened down on the Aaron Rodgers situation.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Here we go.
Speaker 7 (25:07):
At some point, though, they need to set a deadline
because happening. At some point, Aaron needs to be start
learning the offense. I mean, you know, start get with
the guys. So what is that cut off date? I
don't know, only coach Tomlin and mister Rooney and oh,
I know that at some point you have to say,
it's what's the best for our team is to just
probably move on. Sure, and that might sound crazy because
(25:28):
it's Aaron Rodgers, right, but at some point, like you
start questioning, like does Aaron really want to play well?
Speaker 1 (25:38):
According to the Pittsburgh Post Gazette writer, the Steelers were
not in this draft looking for a starter. They're looking
to next year. Yeah, so I think they're looking at Aaron.
I mean, if this may be uncomfortable for Steeler fans,
but are the Steelers just saying, listen, we're not a
super Bowl team. We can be good with air and
(26:00):
we're not going to be great. He's a pocket quarterback
in his forties. Is that Nobody wants to hear this.
But if you're going into a draft and you don't
aggressively with Pittsburgh's fairly stacked roster, if you don't move
up to get even you could have taken like a
Jackson Dart you could. I don't think you could have
gotten cam Ward. It tells you not only the quarterback
(26:21):
class wasn't great, but it tells you, like, I think
we have to be honest about Pittsburgh this year. The hey,
we never have a losing season thing. It just isn't tracking.
And I think if they take a step back get
a better draft pick. You think I'm crazy on this.
If the Steelers win eight games this year with Aaron
eight to nine, they're gonna be picking fourteenth. You're not
(26:44):
getting arch Manning. With that, You're going to have to
make a decision on one of your great defensive players.
The only way to get I mean, I'll say it again, TJ.
Watt is not winning playoff games for you. For the
Steelers are going to be too good roster wise plays
to be a top ten team. They're gonna be like fifty, Well,
how do you get to two, three or four. It's
(27:06):
not just draft picks. People want players. If you're gonna
move up in a great quarterback draft class.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
I guess the counter would be, if you're Mike Tomlin,
can you look yourself.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
In the mirror every morning knowing Mason Rudolph as your
starting quarterback? I can no shot none.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
It's over.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Season is over. You're going nowhere. I'm sorry if I can.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
If I've been given assurances by ownership, I'm okay.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
I will go back.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
I don't want to tell his full story, but Eric Mangini,
you know, Jets guy, just asking his Brett Favre story
with the Jets owner. And I'm sure there's other coaches
who have been through this. But don't trust billionaires, Colin.
I'm sure you, as a business owner, you know this.
Be careful taking the word from billionaires. These owners are impetuous.
They do whatever they want, So I don't know. We'll
see coming up a final story here. JJ McCarthy is
(27:54):
coming off two knee surgeries this offseason, not great, but
he's been cleared this spring for full participant patient in
the Vikings offseason program. McCarthy is very confident in himself
as the team is in him.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
I know I'm ready to start.
Speaker 8 (28:09):
I appreciate that question, Kevin, because all the work I
put in and just the confidence in my skills and
abilities and just being able to do my job and simplify,
simplify things to you know, the best of my ability
every single day, and you know, just taking one day
at a time, one play at a time. And you know,
I have a tremendous coaching staff, a tremendous group of
(28:30):
guys around me, and I can lean on and they
can lean on me.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
Ja it looks like he's looks like he said, it's
a stagecoach. Maybe with that hat backwards. Do you have
any deep thoughts on the hat backwards? Looks like he
needs a haircut. Doesn't look like a button up franchise
quarterback to me. But I'm all in on the Vikings.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Just for the record, I'm all in on the Lions
winning it and the Bears going to a wildcard spot.
I think Green Bay and Minnesota will be well coached.
But I think the division and match like there's two
divisions of football, the AFC West Broncos, Raiders, Chiefs, Chargers
potentially three playoff teams. The fourth place team will be
(29:10):
good the second division. That's the best division in football.
The second best division is the NFC North. Minnesota could
win eight games with JJ and be a really good
team to help it. But I mean, I'm sorry, they're
not pulling off last year's win total. That's not happening.
They have a much topper schedule. They're not doing it.
That is the easiest team in the league to pull
(29:32):
back a wind total.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
Okay, what we got to find the win total first.
I will say in the mock draft that I did
for twenty twenty six, I just did it in win
total order, and the Minnesota Vikings are drafting fifteenth, so
the league thinks they're like a five hundred slightly above such.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Right, that's Vegas, I should say, Vegas.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Yeah, yeah. Jmckle.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
The news, Well, that's the news, and thanks for stopping
back the Herd Line news.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Greg Cosel had good stuff earlier today. Bruce Sard is
coming up in the last hour.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in noon eastern nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 9 (30:11):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together we're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You could catch
us weekdays from five to seven pm Eastern two to
four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the
iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich.
We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Going on in the world.
Speaker 9 (30:29):
We have a lot of fun talking about the stories
behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture,
stories that well other shows don't seem to have the
time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends
for the last twenty years and still work together. I
mean that says something, right, So check us out. We
like to get you involved too, take your phone calls,
chop it up. As they say, I'd say the most
interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive
(30:52):
show on planetar. Be sure to check out Covino and
Rich live on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app
from five to seven pm Eastern, two to four Pacific,
and if you miss any of the live show, just
search Kobe known Rich wherever you get your podcasts, and
of course on social media.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
That's Cobino and rich.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
On Earth continues live from Birmingham Sunday one thirty Eastern
on Fox.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
So this is interesting. People just don't know what the
heck to do with a Bill Belichick. Jordan Hudson's story seventies,
she's mid twenties. Well, this is interesting. From the atlantic
of the athletic excuse me. Jordan Hudson, Belichick's girlfriend. In
(31:33):
December of twenty twenty four, an email to North Carolina officials,
Hudson twenty four identified herself as the COO of Belichick Production,
the chief operating officer. Now that's a real title. So
she is the COO of Belichick Productions. Now the athletics says, yeah,
(31:54):
we're trying to find where she's licensed. It's just an
LLC is all you have to get, or es corp
ll elsy. But that's a real title. And that's what
I said yesterday. You don't have to like it, but
I mean, she's this is what she is. Belichick did
not need this in pro football in college. He and
Mike Lombardi are not college guys. In fact, I've said
(32:16):
I've always thought this felt like a one year thing.
And then Bill would kind of like if he could
jettison college football and go back to the pros. I
don't think that's gonna happen. I think his market has
dried up. I think the NFL is becoming very collaborative league.
Is that you got to have the GM and the
coach get along. Like Bill basically called off as scouting
(32:36):
department mid January last six years in New England. That's
why the Patriots were so awful at drafting. That's why
Mike Vrabel inherited such an awful roster. That's Bill's roster.
I mean a lot of these great managers. It could
be Tony Learus in baseball, the late Bobby Knight in basketball.
They don't change with the culture and they get old
really fast. Bob Knight, I don't want to do one
and done's well okay, in no way he would have
(32:59):
done nia like Okay, so Belichick. He got old very
very fast. People age differently, and Bill is one of
those guys. We're at the college level. He realizes, I
don't want to deal with billionaire owners. If I'm gonna
do this college thing, it just can't be me and
Mike Lebardi. We have to have a bridge, and so
let's have a young Bridge happens to be his girlfriend.
(33:20):
But I mean that, I'm just throwing it out there.
That's what they're saying. That's what she's saying. The athletics like,
well we can't find the LLC. Well she is saying
and told North Carolina, I'm the CEO of his production company.
All right. So Zach Lowe very respected NBA guy analyst,
(33:42):
and this is something we've talked about on the show.
I don't think it's outrageous. Almost everybody's been traded, from
Wayne Gretzky to Bay of Brute, to Joe Montana to
Kareem to Wilt, Everybody's there's just a lot of great
players who have been traded. And Kobe Bryant once threatened
I want to be traded, and then they landed Pawgaso
only stayed with the Lakers and won titles. But it's
(34:02):
not trading Lucas that they got nothing back. But for
Zach Lowe to come out and say what he said
here is a real mark on this.
Speaker 10 (34:14):
Why do you have to get humiliated at the beginning
of every single playoff series before you show the world like, yeah,
I can actually put in a little bit more of
an effort on defense. I'm just tired of like, I'm
going to be embarrassed until our backs are against the wall,
and then I'm going to show you that, Yeah, I
can put up a little bit.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Of a fight.
Speaker 10 (34:30):
How about you put up a fight in like game
one of the second round and now you're down three
to one and you're probably going home.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
For the record. This has always been the book on Luca.
He is a better Carmelo Anthony. He's not that interested
in defense. He's a lobsided offensive player who can play
with others but doesn't necessarily always elevate others. And I've
always had this theory about the NBA. If your best
(34:58):
player does not play defense, James Harden, Luca, Kyrie, pre Lebron,
if your best player won't make the effort, it's poison
in the locker room. Steph Curry has Draymond Green, and
(35:19):
when Clay was in his prime, he was a great defender,
and Steph gave you the effort. He's just not physically
a great defender. He gives you the effort. Mellow didn't,
Luca didn't. D Wade to me, has always been a
limited offensive player. He made his money on playing big
for his size and playing defense and effort. But when
(35:41):
the Duncan played defense, Kobe did, Okay, MJ did again.
Bird wasn't great, but he gave you the effort. And
there's been a lot of great player KD gives you
the effort. Katie's trying. It's just not great at it.
But when you are like James Harden, I'm just I
(36:02):
don't really care. That's problematic. When you think of stars
that don't play defense, there's about five guys that jump out,
lucas one of them. You don't have to like it,
it's the truth.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
And so and that was what Dallas was saying.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
We're not doubting he's a great offensive player, but do
you think it's a coincidence they went and got a
great defensive player in ad because they were frustrated. Kyrie's
not a great defense, So Dallas had two guys that
don't defend, Kyrie and Luca. And also, and this matters
as well, Luca's never been in great shape. Last year
(36:37):
when he got to the finals, he was exhausted. How
many times did Harden in a playoff run? Look, say
what you want, it's a big boys show. It's the truth.
Harden looked exhausted in playoff series. You know who never
looks exhausted, even when he's old and plays the entire
second half. Lebron gives you. Lebron didn't have his offensive
(36:58):
game against Minnesota. How about on the defensive end the
block of Dante Defintenjo. Give me Lucas great dunks, Luca's
great defensive moments, even as Lebron's been in the league
twenty two years, in that fourth quarter, when he had
nothing left, he made two huge defensive plays. Tell me
(37:18):
Luca's best defensive play. Ever. You don't even think of
what Tatum plays defense? And plays defense? Yeah, Hardin never
did Luca never has, Mello never did.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
Duncan did right matters twenty.
Speaker 4 (37:31):
Second time out here, buddy, we need a time out.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
You're going in too hard.
Speaker 4 (37:35):
First of all, Carmelo Anthony is not in the same
class as Luca.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Doncis.
Speaker 4 (37:38):
Luca makes everyone around him better. By the way I
just looked this up. Luca's been to the conference finals
two of the last three years. You know, he's a
great player, He's a leader. Put Dallas on his back.
Maybe that's why he got hurt this season. Because he
carried that franchise to to the NBA Finals last year.
So I looked up, in no disrespect to Zach Low,
I looked up just once that defensive rating in the
playoffs amongst star First of all, like the entire Miami
(38:02):
Heat starting lineup is at the top worst defense because
the Cats cooked him well. According to defensive rating, Luca
has been better, according to just one stat than Lebron, Rui,
Hachi Mora, Darius Garland, Jannis Okay, and by the way,
Jackson Hayes has been awful. That's probably why the numbers better.
(38:23):
Totally say lucas a turnstile.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Okay. Does anybody think Darius Garland great defenders?
Speaker 7 (38:31):
Terrible?
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Yeah? Okay, so that I don't even care about that comment.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
I'm just saying, ruy ruey.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
Again.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
You can't leave him on an island with Anthony every time.
Hell few people can. But again, yeah, he's never been
a great defender. He missed twenty five games and he
got traded. He's still adjusting. Can we give him a
grace period? Like last year he dispatched Aunt Edwards a
company in the conference finals. Remember the f bombs to
Rudy Gobert in his face after he hit that three.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
No, I like I like him.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
But what zach Lowe is saying, we have another zach
low bite where he talked about this, the idea of
moving off a guy that you had. Remember with the
new CBA, you were gonna have to pay him seventy
million a year. Okay, I don't want to have to
think about, well, he's not in great shape, he's getting
hurt more. Lucas had two dunks the last two years.
(39:20):
He had twenty five as a rookie. Like you're seeing
athletically a decline. Here's Zach low You.
Speaker 10 (39:28):
Can find corners of smart NBA people, team people who
who would tell you the idea of getting out ahead
of this and trading Luca is not a crazy idea.
The idea of doing it without shopping him to get
nine first round draft picks in swaps and doing this
specific trade is where the logic falls apart.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Yeah, and I think the really smart executives get ahead
of stuff. They're they're they're not reactionary, and I and
I just think they didn't get enough back. But you know,
it's when teams pick on you that's an indication. Think
about that when a team goes pick on Luca, and
(40:08):
I've seen that in this series a couple of times
they're going after him. Now I will say this, Yo
Kitch is not a great defender, but Yo Kitch is
also basically the entire offense on most nights, he didn't
have Lebron next to him. Also, he's carrying around two
hundred and sixty five pounds, and Yo Kitch isn't a
great defender, but he'll tighten it up with six minutes
(40:30):
to go. He's a capable defender. That's Luke a lot
of times is out of gas with sixty.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
So listen.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
Maybe this is the California in me speaking, But sometimes
things just happen for a reason, and maybe.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
Luca needs this wake up call. Hey y'all got dusted.
Speaker 4 (40:45):
Hey, Lebron's going to be able to get in your
face down and be like, hey, you got to get
in better state. Maybe Luca needs this. I didn't hear
that dunking sat before this morning. That's kind of a
stunning SAT. I didn't know it's that bad. But sometimes
you need something. I recently had an incident with my
call and I was super hot, heated, and then it
took me like twenty four hours. I was like, Okay,
maybe this needed to happen. It's a sign I'm going
(41:06):
to adjust some things, and maybe Luca just needs this
wake up call Colin.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
I don't know. Yeah, I just don't think he's going
to be an elite defender next year, regardless of what happened.
But I am not denying the Lakers won the trade
overwhelmingly and he is a greatest offensive player. I just
think he's a lopsided player.
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Here we go. It is hour two.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
We are live in Chicago.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
It's the Herd. Wherever you may be and however you
may be listening. Thanks for making us part of your day. Jmax,
Jmax got you know, my wife even pointed this out yesterday.
Jmax got the the floral shirts. You got the big robust,
dynamic shirts. You know, I'm doing a professional business. Look
over here and one of us to go out in
the shirt we're wearing. So credit to you. And it's
(00:51):
like spoos your wardrobe box, hey, Jmax, like bringing the
A game on the wardrobe.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Victoria and company did a great joab Hey. I was
talking with a couple producers during the break.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Who wins in a battle one hundred adult males or
one gorilla?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Yeah, I've heard that thing.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
It's fascinating.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
No real strong opinion. Apparently it's taken over the internet.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
Yes, so come on, get off the fence, big guy
who you got at one time?
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Yeah, I probably take the adults probably, Okay, I mean again,
this is something I haven't spent one second on the
away hot to show prep would take precedence over this. Okay.
So there we'll get to Greg co sail in a
couple of minutes. Eli Manning is putting a bid together
for a minority interest in the Giants. So I know, Eli,
(01:38):
I really like this idea. Since Eli Manning moved out
of his prime, the New York Giants have been They've
made so many bad decisions. Nick, I like Brian Dabole.
Finally they have a coach I like, and he better winner.
He's gone by Thanksgiving. But they've made so many bad
decisions head coaches, quarterbacks, general managers. That's upstairs stuff. Ask
(02:01):
yourself this, when's the last time the Hunt family with
the Chiefs butchered a free agent quarterback signing or missed
on a first round quarterback signing draft. It just doesn't
happen very often. Since twenty seventeen, the Giants are last
in wins and thirty first in point differential and points
(02:22):
per game and sack differential. It's a bad franchise that's upstairs.
Stop blaming the coaches, Stop blaming the players. That's upstairs.
Like if you look at consistently, it's not a coincidence
that Washington ran out the worst owner in the league
and tripled their win total. It's not just Jayden Daniels.
Jaden doesn't do it without the right coordinator, the right
(02:45):
general manager, the right culture. Jaden would not have done
that with the previous group. They just kept getting in
their way. And I'll say this, you can trust elive
and I know. I'll give you an example of why
I like the Manning family. Arch Manning goes to Texas.
So Texas is a massive football brand like Ohio State, Michigan,
(03:07):
Notre Dame Texas big. Arch Manning doesn't get a start
first year, second year, And by the way, I think
he's better than quin yours. I think if he would
have been in the draft this year without starting in college,
somebody would have taken him in the second round. I
really believed that this quarterback draft somebody would have taken
arch Manning second and said we're going to go with Jeans.
(03:28):
Archie was good. Eli was good. Peyton, We're just going
to go with Jeans, and yet he didn't transfer. He's
been a team player. It's so Manning like dignity, thoughtful class.
New York Giants. They got an upstairs problem, I said,
the Chicago Bears finally with Ben Johnson like controlling the
(03:51):
draft Chicago for years. Detroit before Dan Campbell and their
new GM and executive suite, Detroit had an upstairs problem.
They didn't have a quarterback problem. That Stafford was great.
So we always look in this sport, whenever a team loses,
it's the coach. No, Washington had an upstairs problem. The
Giants do. That doesn't mean the Mars are totally inept,
(04:13):
but they need a fresh set of eyes and ears
and the Mannings they make really good decisions. Football decisions,
parenting decisions, business decisions. They just make really good decisions.
With that forty five years NFL films. Greg Coseller is
joining us, so let's just talk football to get all
(04:33):
the other nonsense. If Pittsburgh so the Rams, my understanding,
didn't really Shador was not on their board as a starter.
They like Jackson Dart. New York Giants liked Jackson Dart
over Shador. There's nothing wrong with that. I had a
friend of mine who's a former GM. He liked Jackson
Dart a lot, not as much as cam Ward, but
(04:55):
he liked him more than Shad. He liked him a lot. So,
and I think everybody thinks cam was the best court
back in a week class Pittsburgh Steelers. According to the
Pittsburgh Post Gazette, a reporter there, we're not in the
starting quarterback hunt. They looked at next year. I'm told
the Rams looked at next year. The Browns trading down early,
(05:16):
told you next year's class, we'll go get backups this year.
So if I was a GM and I wasn't into
Shadors playing, what on film did you watch that you
believe Greg could turn a general manager off and just
not see him as an elite quarterback prospect.
Speaker 5 (05:37):
Well, I think that that I think relates to what
the league has become Colin for starting quality starting quarterbacks.
We're talking about guys that were top five quarterbacks in
the league. Because if you're drafting Sanders high, that's what
you're expecting him to be a top five quarterback in
the league. So what you're dealing with is a player
who's essentially a pocket quarterback. If he's to become a
(05:58):
really good quarterback in the NFL, at his core, he's
a pocket player. Now, he's not immobile, it's not as
if he's a statue, but at his core he would
have to be successful as a pocket player and as
a pocket quarterback. His traits are good, not great. So
where does that kind of player get drafted in the NFL?
Speaker 6 (06:17):
And what does he become in the NFL?
Speaker 5 (06:19):
He's a pocket quarterback with good traits, he's a lower
level CJ.
Speaker 6 (06:24):
Stroud. CJ.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
Stroud is essentially a pocket quarterback, is bigger, he's a
better thrower.
Speaker 6 (06:31):
So CJ.
Speaker 5 (06:32):
Stroud, who was drafted second and has done well in
his first two years. Sanders is a similar style quarterback
in terms of his approach to the way in which
he plays, but he's not as gifted. He's smaller and
doesn't throw it as well. So where does that player
get drafted? That's why he was all over the board
just as a player, putting everything else aside. I had
(06:54):
coaches tell me that they thought he was a backup.
I had coaches tell me he was a first round pick.
I had coaches tell me he's a third round pick.
So he was all over the board because his traits
are not quite at the level where it's unanimous or
obvious as to what he projects to be at the
NFL level.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
So again, let's keep it to football.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
If you were to draft Jackson Dart over him, because
I know two people that prefer Jackson Dart, what did
you see about Jackson Dart that a GM would go, Oh,
I like that, that's better than Shador.
Speaker 5 (07:26):
Well, that gets into the same question. I think you
have the mobility factor. I think Jackson thought. While he's
not explosive and dynamic, Jackson Dart, his legs are a factor.
So now you get into the fact that he can
make plays on third down with his legs, and that
changes the way defenses have to play. See, the thing
is you have to think about now the NFL. We're
(07:46):
not just doing this in a vacuum. We're projecting players,
and you see him right here. We're projecting players to
play in the NFL and what that means. So the
fact that he can beat you with his legs means
that that changes at times in critical down in distant situations.
Speaker 6 (08:01):
The way defenses have to play.
Speaker 5 (08:03):
His arm is probably as good or maybe even a
little better than Sanders, and he has that mobility and
that's a key key factor. So Jackson Dart could easily
be seen, and he was by some teams just the
football part, as a better prospect than your Dorr Sanders.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
So it's interesting, I thought the Bears because the last
two years in free agents, I know, I said, Greg,
they're going to go defense. They didn't. They went offense again.
I mean last year they did it draft and free agency.
This year they did it free agency and draft. So
Ben Johnson saying, listen, I'm going to clean up my
(08:42):
side of the ball. We'll get the defense later. So
they go Colston Loveland, Luther Burden, who's a really could
be a very interesting hut, and Ozzie Tepedo, who Matt Hasselbeck,
by the.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Way, likes, what did you make it do?
Speaker 6 (08:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (08:57):
What did you make of those first three picks? And
how they'll help Caleb Williams.
Speaker 6 (09:02):
Well, they're going to play a lot of twelve personnel.
Speaker 5 (09:04):
You know, a lot of people thought they'd take Tyler Warren,
But Tyler Warren is a redundancy for them because Cole
Kamets stylistically is the same kind of player. We could
say Warren's better, but stylistically, in the context of their offense,
they're the same player.
Speaker 6 (09:18):
So they went with the more athletic a tight end
in Lovelin.
Speaker 5 (09:23):
Who gives them more so they'll play with twelve personnel
at the times and they'll be really difficult.
Speaker 6 (09:28):
And then Luthor Burden.
Speaker 5 (09:29):
I mean, I loved Luthor Burdon's tape and I think
Luth the Burden in the context of a Ben Johnson offense.
And I'm not going to sit here and say he's
going to do exactly what Alman Ross Saint Brown did,
because you never know. But I think that he stylistically
fits that role in a Ben Johnson offense. And I
think you know with Burden, now they can line up
in twelve personnel with two tight ends. They can line
(09:51):
up in eleven personnel with a Duneesa Moore and Burden.
I mean, this is a really, really good offense in
terms of the skill players. And Trapill didn't surprise me
at all that he went where he did. I studied
his tape. He's a really good player. He played right
tackle at BC. They're going to have to make a
decision as to whom becomes the left tackle, whether they
(10:11):
can move Trapello there, who's played that in college, or
Darnell Wright, who's been their right tackle. But Trapillo is
a really, really good prospect. So I love what they
did on the offensive side of the ball.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
So it was pretty obvious. There were certain teams, and
I think the Chargers are one where I had had
dinner with their offensive coordinator a couple of days a
week before the draft actually, and he said, listen, we
have a really good football team. We need a little
bit more juice on offense. Well they went and got
it with Trey Harris and Hampton. Let's talk about the Chargers.
(10:43):
Let's talk about Hampton the running back in Trey Harris.
What does that provide that they didn't have last year?
Speaker 6 (10:50):
Well, I love Murray and Hampton. I loved his tape.
Speaker 5 (10:53):
I didn't think there was much of a difference at
all between Hampton and Genty. To me, Hampton just looked
like a feature foundation back on tape. Some people thought,
and I could see that that there were similarities to
Jonathan Taylor stylistically, and he is clearly the kind of
back that you could give the ball twenty times a
game too. We know it's Greg Roman. We know they
(11:13):
want to run the football, you know. We know that's
the way they play. That's foundationally how they want to
start their offense. So now you get the play action
pass game off of that. And last year they had
pretty good success at times with the play action pass game,
so now they can do more of it.
Speaker 6 (11:28):
Harris is an intriguing guy.
Speaker 5 (11:30):
I watched him last summer Colin from twenty twenty three
when he had a big year. This year, he got
hurt after seven games. I saw every game, every snap.
I kept going back and forth on him. He's I
just wasn't sure if he was a vertical dimension in
the league. He's long and he has stride length, but
he didn't run real well. And I'm just really curious
as to what he will be. I'm a little uncertain
(11:51):
about him, but I know a lot of people liked him.
I just kept going back and forth in my mind.
I'm very curious to see what he becomes in the
National Football League. But the Hampton pick I absolutely love that.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
So I was told that Seattle wants to play Jalen
Milroe in six or seven plays a game, is that
they just think he's too athletic not to get on
the field. And I mean, I mean there were times
with Lamar Jackson, you watched them his first year, you're like,
is he the best athlete on either team? I mean
Michael Vick at that component. Milroe is a sensational acthlete. Yeah,
(12:25):
we know he can be a bit mechanical. But what
does he do from your film study that you think
immediately translates to production in the NFL?
Speaker 5 (12:35):
Now, Well, I think one of the things that's become
really big in this league, and you see it with
the Eagles, you certainly see it with Lamar is the
importance of the quarterback run game, the design quarterback runs
a game in the red zone. And I think that's
where Milroe can be a factor. Don't forget that McDonald
(12:55):
spent a year or so with Baltimore, so he knows
all about the quarterback run game and the design of
it and how it can really break down and attack defenses.
And that's where I think Milroe can become a factor.
But I actually really like Seattle's draft as a whole.
Colin and they traded up to get they traded up
to get Nick Mnwari, and I'm sure all of us
(13:16):
immediately thought that's Kyle Hamilton and the Mike McDonald defense
because they're they're stylistically similar players, so their defense and
maybe people are sleeping on it, but what they've done
defensively this offseason and what they've built defensively, they could
be one of the best defensive teams in the NFL
this year.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Yeah, No, he was. He was the safety from South Carolina.
I was told this by a couple of people. He was.
He's kind of a can't miss. He's just so ra
so athletic. There are very few guys that can't miss,
and you know, you'd think, oh, we go in the
first round, but safety's a different position. But he kind
of feels like I can't miss in the NFL. So
(13:54):
I want to go back to Travis Hunter. So you
looked at him as a corner and you look at
him as a receiver. If I said to you, yeah, Greg,
he ended up being a pro bowler at one position.
If you had to guess based on your film story,
there was what he was good at both, but one
of them he becomes a pro bowler. Which side would
you predict.
Speaker 5 (14:16):
I mean he's you know, I think that early on
he would have a better chance of being a pro
bowler as a receiver than as a corner. Interesting because
I think as a I think as a corner we
know about the physical traits, but you watch his tape
and as a corner he doesn't really play with any
technique because he's never had to, and I think in
(14:37):
the NFL he'll have to. But I think the larger
question with Travis Hunter, and again I don't listen to
what everybody says Collins, so I don't know if this
has been talked about, but I think the larger issue
is not whether he can play one hundred and fifteen
or one hundred twenty snaps the game. Maybe he's just
that freak that can. But the issue is preparation during
the week. He can't be in the offensive and the
(14:58):
defensive meetings at the same time. And you know how coaches,
how anal coaches are about their meetings and their details
and their nuance, and you know you just can't be
in both meetings.
Speaker 6 (15:09):
There's not enough hours in the day.
Speaker 5 (15:11):
So I'm very curious to see how that works, because
you can't be part of both sides of the ball
in all the detail that's required.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yeah, finally, when you looked at Ashton Genty's tape, I
imagine the Oregon game. The Oregon game is one that
you really zoned it on. Because they have NFL players everywhere,
it is harder to make a guess air playing smaller schools.
What is the one The first time you looked at
Ashton Jenny who was now a Raider, the first time
you looked at his tape and went, Okay, this is
(15:42):
you know, it's Boise State. This is real. This is
a real difference makeup. Was there something that popped for
you at tendency or a trick that you had seen
before and went, yeah, that's McCaffrey or that's whoever.
Speaker 5 (15:55):
Well, contact balance, because you're going to get hit in
the NFL, you've got to run inside between the tackles.
You can't be a great back in the NFL by
just running on the perimeter. So he has this unique
ability to absorb hits and keep going without.
Speaker 6 (16:11):
Really losing any of his momentum. And that's a rare trait.
Speaker 5 (16:14):
So to me, his best trade is contact balance, and
that's something that is absolutely essential now he's got other
traits as well.
Speaker 6 (16:21):
I don't want to make it seem like that's his
only trade.
Speaker 5 (16:24):
Obviously he's a great, great prospect, but I think the
contact balance part is really really special.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
By the way, I want to add this, I watched
virtually every pick, and I know it didn't have a
lot of stars, but it's hard to convince me there
weren't a lot of good players. When Cody Simon, or
Rio State linebacker went in the fourth, I thought he
was a really good player. I mean it was a
heart and soul to that defense. And Damian Martinez, who
(16:53):
I watch playing, Yeah that time, Greg, I can't believe
it round running back. You didn't get it either.
Speaker 6 (17:00):
Yeah, no, that to me.
Speaker 5 (17:02):
And again, all I can tell you is how I
evaluate the players. I'm not one who too speaks about
whether teams did a good job or bad job, because
they've got thirty people doing this and these guys work
really hard. But I really like Damian Martinez. I watched
him last summer when he was at Oregon State. I
watched him this year at the University of Miami. I
think this guy in the right system could actually be
(17:23):
a feature back and to be honest with you, and
we'll see how it plays out. We'll see how it
plays out in camp. But I personally think he's a
better runner. Now again, there may be other elements here,
but he's a better runner than Zach Charbonay. And you know,
Zach Scharboney right now is the number two back in Seattle.
So we'll see how it plays out through OTA's mini
camp and training camp. But I really like Damian Martinez.
(17:45):
I was really surprised he went in the seventh round.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah, now, no, that jumped out to me. I said, okay,
you can tell me this isn't a great draft. That
is an NFL You think he's a feature back. All
I know is that guy I watched him in college.
He was five yards of carry over people run past him.
He was five yards of carry.
Speaker 6 (18:03):
And power translates. You know, that's the thing.
Speaker 5 (18:06):
There's a lot of great athletes in the NFL, as
we know, Colin, but power is one thing at all
positions that normally translates, and he's a powerful runner.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Greg Cosel forty five years NFL Films. Good seeing again,
smart stuff as always, Greg.
Speaker 6 (18:21):
Thanks, Colin, really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
You bet. How about that J Mack the one guy
in the draft. I went, what, how is he a
seventh round player? You know, J Mack, I may bail
on the show and end up being a scout here.
Speaker 6 (18:33):
In the very in their future.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
What area scout in Chicago? Come on, you gotta be going.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
To Big ten games outdoors in November. Stop it, You're
not being a scout college.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Okay, Hey, I'm taking the train to work. I'm a
new guy. That's almost just a man of the people.
I like it.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Bright pink shirts on national television.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
No, I'm not one more heard. The Herd streams twenty
four hours a day, seven days a week within the
iHeartRadio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand
whenever you like.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
All right, welcome back, Chris Bruce chardleby joining us last hour.
A lot of NBA stuff to talk about. Jason Tatum
has officially arrived. By the way the Lakers played tonight,
they're big favorites. I don't know. I think they'll be
inspired because JJ Reddick got kind of beat up by
the media. We'll see jmck with the news.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
This is the Herd line news.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
All right, let's get started with Lakers, Wolves, Lakers were
four and a half point favorites.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
It's up to.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Six, Colin, you might be onto something. Let's talk about
Anthony Edwards. He had that forty three point performance in
Game four, a lot of physicality at trash talking. Chris Finch,
guest of this show, has not been surprising. I've been
with him long enough to know that doubting him is
not a really good strategy.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
He has a great sense of the moment.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Colin, we saw three teams last night have a chance
to close it out. Boston did right, but the nick
did not have the urgency.
Speaker 6 (20:02):
Right.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
I'm sure you noticed that Pacers did not have the urgency.
They were able to pull it off lucky late. I'm
just curious. Do you think the Wolves closed it out
tonight at Crypto?
Speaker 3 (20:11):
I don't. I think the Lakers survived.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
It is interesting though, we talked about the earlier story
when Zach Lowe came out a respected NBA analyst and said, yeah,
like lucas a bad defensive player. I was thinking, well,
he is. He's a bad defensive right, he's a bad Yeah,
he's pretty bad. I mean teams pick on him. That's
a pretty good indicate. Karl Anthony Town teams pick on
(20:35):
and that's the first sign you're not good. It's like
a cornerback in the NFL. If a team a quarterback
goes after you, you're the weak corner. So it's interesting
a year ago, if I would have said three years ago,
if I would have said to you John Morant or Ant,
the league would have taken job. If I said a
year ago Luca or Ant, the league would have taken Luca.
I bet you have the GMS today watching this series
(20:59):
Ants defense. I mean it's been impressive. Yes, I'm telling you.
Michael Jordan when he came into this league was all offense.
And then I mean it was it was. It was
a great offensive player, but he was all relentless. But
Michael over time became a great basketball teammate as well.
It was he couldn't win those playoffs series or you know,
(21:20):
for years until Pippin arrives. You start watching Ant. He
has now jumped over the Zion Jahn Morant crowd that
he was behind. I think you look at Luca and
let's be honest here, lucas not in the shape and
is he doesn't defend. And now Ant's giving you the
same high level of offense. If you're asking me who
(21:41):
I would take next ten years, I would take Ant easily.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Cor it that Luca Slander must stop. Okay, let's slow down.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
He was injured in miss like twenty five games this
year and he was traded. That being said on Ant specifically,
he's been unstoppable. I saw crazy status. Now, Colin, He's
had seventy ISO plays in this year. Do you want
to know how many times the Lakers have double teamed
Anthony Edwards? Of those seventy isolations, it's a trick question.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Eight zero zero doubles from JJ Reddick.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
Now, part of that could be because Randall is forty five
percent from three in the series.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
He can't miss.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
McDaniels is forty two percent from three. They're not missing,
So you can't double Ant.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Right, those guys are hitting, you're gonna get blown out.
Those games in Minnesota were a coin toss games.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
I hate to say this because you know, I love
to think I know everything about basketball. I don't know
what Reddick can do here other than hey man, DFS
Austin Reids. You're on an island with Ant. You gotta
just either let him get two, don't let.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Him get three. Well, the other thing we've seen in
these playoffs Historically role players shrink in the postseason, especially
on the road. We all love Austin Reeves, but when
you watch the tatums and the star players in this league,
(22:59):
Jamal Murray, who's always been not an All Star but
really good, he's rising in big moments. Austin Reeves has
had a lot of bad halves, like a lot, and
that's one of those things. That's why I say about
Rock pretty not doubting he's a franchiser. I'm not doubting
Austin's the lakers third best player, but it does feel
like Austin. As the league has allowed more physicality, it
(23:24):
has hurt Austin Reeves game a little bit.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
I don't think that's wrong.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
He did have I think five threes last game and
a good look to tie the game at the end.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
The thing about like, I.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
Think Ant is a tougher matchup than SGA, and I
know SCA is gonna win MVP, but he's not a
great three point shooter. Ant led the league in three
point makes like I mean, I know we call him
the free throw merchant SGA, but Aunt to me is
a tougher defender, like the Lakers don't have it.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
What are you put on them, Colin Lebron, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Yeah. And here's the other thing is that the Tea
Wolves played in more clutch games, more close games. It's
a big benefit. Now we've talked about this before. Is
that the Detroit Lions last year blew. I mean, go
back to their first twelve weeks the year before, go
(24:12):
back to the Ravens first thirteen weeks, and then you
get into the playoffs and like, well, time out, it's
all situational Minnesota. Well, how many four point games was
Minnesota in this year? And it's been in these games
so many times. They're just built for playoff basketball, in
close games.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
I got Lakers tonight, You do as well. Lakers money line.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
I think I would take the six and a half
with Minnesota. I think the Lakers survived. That's a lot
of points to give up to a team that doesn't
trust their bench. I mean, Lakers reddicks, say what you want?
Does not want to play Jackson Hayes against the team
that's already bigger.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Well maybe that's a problem. Coming home gave.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
Vincent shows up, This could be ten points.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
That's it. Let's go to the NFL colin.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
Everybody's waiting for Aaron Rodgers' decision. Everyone thinks it will
be to Steelers. Well, your favorite podcaster, Ben Roethlisberger has
jottened down on the Aaron Rodgers situation.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Here we go.
Speaker 7 (25:07):
At some point, though, they need to set a deadline
because happening. At some point, Aaron needs to be start
learning the offense. I mean, you know, start get with
the guys. So what is that cut off date? I
don't know, only coach Tomlin and mister Rooney and oh,
I know that at some point you have to say,
it's what's the best for our team is to just
probably move on. Sure, and that might sound crazy because
(25:28):
it's Aaron Rodgers, right, but at some point, like you
start questioning, like does Aaron really want to play well?
Speaker 1 (25:38):
According to the Pittsburgh Post Gazette writer, the Steelers were
not in this draft looking for a starter. They're looking
to next year. Yeah, so I think they're looking at Aaron.
I mean, if this may be uncomfortable for Steeler fans,
but are the Steelers just saying, listen, we're not a
super Bowl team. We can be good with air and
(26:00):
we're not going to be great. He's a pocket quarterback
in his forties. Is that Nobody wants to hear this.
But if you're going into a draft and you don't
aggressively with Pittsburgh's fairly stacked roster, if you don't move
up to get even you could have taken like a
Jackson Dart you could. I don't think you could have
gotten cam Ward. It tells you not only the quarterback
(26:21):
class wasn't great, but it tells you, like, I think
we have to be honest about Pittsburgh this year. The hey,
we never have a losing season thing. It just isn't tracking.
And I think if they take a step back get
a better draft pick. You think I'm crazy on this.
If the Steelers win eight games this year with Aaron
eight to nine, they're gonna be picking fourteenth. You're not
(26:44):
getting arch Manning. With that, You're going to have to
make a decision on one of your great defensive players.
The only way to get I mean, I'll say it again, TJ.
Watt is not winning playoff games for you. For the
Steelers are going to be too good roster wise plays
to be a top ten team. They're gonna be like fifty, Well,
how do you get to two, three or four. It's
(27:06):
not just draft picks. People want players. If you're gonna
move up in a great quarterback draft class.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
I guess the counter would be, if you're Mike Tomlin,
can you look yourself.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
In the mirror every morning knowing Mason Rudolph as your
starting quarterback? I can no shot none.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
It's over.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Season is over. You're going nowhere. I'm sorry if I can.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
If I've been given assurances by ownership, I'm okay.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
I will go back.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
I don't want to tell his full story, but Eric Mangini,
you know, Jets guy, just asking his Brett Favre story
with the Jets owner. And I'm sure there's other coaches
who have been through this. But don't trust billionaires, Colin.
I'm sure you, as a business owner, you know this.
Be careful taking the word from billionaires. These owners are impetuous.
They do whatever they want, So I don't know. We'll
see coming up a final story here. JJ McCarthy is
(27:54):
coming off two knee surgeries this offseason, not great, but
he's been cleared this spring for full participant patient in
the Vikings offseason program. McCarthy is very confident in himself
as the team is in him.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
I know I'm ready to start.
Speaker 8 (28:09):
I appreciate that question, Kevin, because all the work I
put in and just the confidence in my skills and
abilities and just being able to do my job and simplify,
simplify things to you know, the best of my ability
every single day, and you know, just taking one day
at a time, one play at a time. And you know,
I have a tremendous coaching staff, a tremendous group of
(28:30):
guys around me, and I can lean on and they
can lean on me.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
Ja it looks like he's looks like he said, it's
a stagecoach. Maybe with that hat backwards. Do you have
any deep thoughts on the hat backwards? Looks like he
needs a haircut. Doesn't look like a button up franchise
quarterback to me. But I'm all in on the Vikings.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Just for the record, I'm all in on the Lions
winning it and the Bears going to a wildcard spot.
I think Green Bay and Minnesota will be well coached.
But I think the division and match like there's two
divisions of football, the AFC West Broncos, Raiders, Chiefs, Chargers
potentially three playoff teams. The fourth place team will be
(29:10):
good the second division. That's the best division in football.
The second best division is the NFC North. Minnesota could
win eight games with JJ and be a really good
team to help it. But I mean, I'm sorry, they're
not pulling off last year's win total. That's not happening.
They have a much topper schedule. They're not doing it.
That is the easiest team in the league to pull
(29:32):
back a wind total.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
Okay, what we got to find the win total first.
I will say in the mock draft that I did
for twenty twenty six, I just did it in win
total order, and the Minnesota Vikings are drafting fifteenth, so
the league thinks they're like a five hundred slightly above such.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Right, that's Vegas, I should say, Vegas.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Yeah, yeah. Jmckle.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
The news, Well, that's the news, and thanks for stopping
back the Herd Line news.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Greg Cosel had good stuff earlier today. Bruce Sard is
coming up in the last hour.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in noon eastern nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 9 (30:11):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together we're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You could catch
us weekdays from five to seven pm Eastern two to
four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the
iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich.
We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Going on in the world.
Speaker 9 (30:29):
We have a lot of fun talking about the stories
behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture,
stories that well other shows don't seem to have the
time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends
for the last twenty years and still work together. I
mean that says something, right, So check us out. We
like to get you involved too, take your phone calls,
chop it up. As they say, I'd say the most
interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive
(30:52):
show on planetar. Be sure to check out Covino and
Rich live on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app
from five to seven pm Eastern, two to four Pacific,
and if you miss any of the live show, just
search Kobe known Rich wherever you get your podcasts, and
of course on social media.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
That's Cobino and rich.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
On Earth continues live from Birmingham Sunday one thirty Eastern
on Fox.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
So this is interesting. People just don't know what the
heck to do with a Bill Belichick. Jordan Hudson's story seventies,
she's mid twenties. Well, this is interesting. From the atlantic
of the athletic excuse me. Jordan Hudson, Belichick's girlfriend. In
(31:33):
December of twenty twenty four, an email to North Carolina officials,
Hudson twenty four identified herself as the COO of Belichick Production,
the chief operating officer. Now that's a real title. So
she is the COO of Belichick Productions. Now the athletics says, yeah,
(31:54):
we're trying to find where she's licensed. It's just an
LLC is all you have to get, or es corp
ll elsy. But that's a real title. And that's what
I said yesterday. You don't have to like it, but
I mean, she's this is what she is. Belichick did
not need this in pro football in college. He and
Mike Lombardi are not college guys. In fact, I've said
(32:16):
I've always thought this felt like a one year thing.
And then Bill would kind of like if he could
jettison college football and go back to the pros. I
don't think that's gonna happen. I think his market has
dried up. I think the NFL is becoming very collaborative league.
Is that you got to have the GM and the
coach get along. Like Bill basically called off as scouting
(32:36):
department mid January last six years in New England. That's
why the Patriots were so awful at drafting. That's why
Mike Vrabel inherited such an awful roster. That's Bill's roster.
I mean a lot of these great managers. It could
be Tony Learus in baseball, the late Bobby Knight in basketball.
They don't change with the culture and they get old
really fast. Bob Knight, I don't want to do one
and done's well okay, in no way he would have
(32:59):
done nia like Okay, so Belichick. He got old very
very fast. People age differently, and Bill is one of
those guys. We're at the college level. He realizes, I
don't want to deal with billionaire owners. If I'm gonna
do this college thing, it just can't be me and
Mike Lebardi. We have to have a bridge, and so
let's have a young Bridge happens to be his girlfriend.
(33:20):
But I mean that, I'm just throwing it out there.
That's what they're saying. That's what she's saying. The athletics like,
well we can't find the LLC. Well she is saying
and told North Carolina, I'm the CEO of his production company.
All right. So Zach Lowe very respected NBA guy analyst,
(33:42):
and this is something we've talked about on the show.
I don't think it's outrageous. Almost everybody's been traded, from
Wayne Gretzky to Bay of Brute, to Joe Montana to
Kareem to Wilt, Everybody's there's just a lot of great
players who have been traded. And Kobe Bryant once threatened
I want to be traded, and then they landed Pawgaso
only stayed with the Lakers and won titles. But it's
(34:02):
not trading Lucas that they got nothing back. But for
Zach Lowe to come out and say what he said
here is a real mark on this.
Speaker 10 (34:14):
Why do you have to get humiliated at the beginning
of every single playoff series before you show the world like, yeah,
I can actually put in a little bit more of
an effort on defense. I'm just tired of like, I'm
going to be embarrassed until our backs are against the wall,
and then I'm going to show you that, Yeah, I
can put up a little bit.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Of a fight.
Speaker 10 (34:30):
How about you put up a fight in like game
one of the second round and now you're down three
to one and you're probably going home.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
For the record. This has always been the book on Luca.
He is a better Carmelo Anthony. He's not that interested
in defense. He's a lobsided offensive player who can play
with others but doesn't necessarily always elevate others. And I've
always had this theory about the NBA. If your best
(34:58):
player does not play defense, James Harden, Luca, Kyrie, pre Lebron,
if your best player won't make the effort, it's poison
in the locker room. Steph Curry has Draymond Green, and
(35:19):
when Clay was in his prime, he was a great defender,
and Steph gave you the effort. He's just not physically
a great defender. He gives you the effort. Mellow didn't,
Luca didn't. D Wade to me, has always been a
limited offensive player. He made his money on playing big
for his size and playing defense and effort. But when
(35:41):
the Duncan played defense, Kobe did, Okay, MJ did again.
Bird wasn't great, but he gave you the effort. And
there's been a lot of great player KD gives you
the effort. Katie's trying. It's just not great at it.
But when you are like James Harden, I'm just I
(36:02):
don't really care. That's problematic. When you think of stars
that don't play defense, there's about five guys that jump out,
lucas one of them. You don't have to like it,
it's the truth.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
And so and that was what Dallas was saying.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
We're not doubting he's a great offensive player, but do
you think it's a coincidence they went and got a
great defensive player in ad because they were frustrated. Kyrie's
not a great defense, So Dallas had two guys that
don't defend, Kyrie and Luca. And also, and this matters
as well, Luca's never been in great shape. Last year
(36:37):
when he got to the finals, he was exhausted. How
many times did Harden in a playoff run? Look, say
what you want, it's a big boys show. It's the truth.
Harden looked exhausted in playoff series. You know who never
looks exhausted, even when he's old and plays the entire
second half. Lebron gives you. Lebron didn't have his offensive
(36:58):
game against Minnesota. How about on the defensive end the
block of Dante Defintenjo. Give me Lucas great dunks, Luca's
great defensive moments, even as Lebron's been in the league
twenty two years, in that fourth quarter, when he had
nothing left, he made two huge defensive plays. Tell me
(37:18):
Luca's best defensive play. Ever. You don't even think of
what Tatum plays defense? And plays defense? Yeah, Hardin never
did Luca never has, Mello never did.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
Duncan did right matters twenty.
Speaker 4 (37:31):
Second time out here, buddy, we need a time out.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
You're going in too hard.
Speaker 4 (37:35):
First of all, Carmelo Anthony is not in the same
class as Luca.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Doncis.
Speaker 4 (37:38):
Luca makes everyone around him better. By the way I
just looked this up. Luca's been to the conference finals
two of the last three years. You know, he's a
great player, He's a leader. Put Dallas on his back.
Maybe that's why he got hurt this season. Because he
carried that franchise to to the NBA Finals last year.
So I looked up, in no disrespect to Zach Low,
I looked up just once that defensive rating in the
playoffs amongst star First of all, like the entire Miami
(38:02):
Heat starting lineup is at the top worst defense because
the Cats cooked him well. According to defensive rating, Luca
has been better, according to just one stat than Lebron, Rui,
Hachi Mora, Darius Garland, Jannis Okay, and by the way,
Jackson Hayes has been awful. That's probably why the numbers better.
(38:23):
Totally say lucas a turnstile.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Okay. Does anybody think Darius Garland great defenders?
Speaker 7 (38:31):
Terrible?
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Yeah? Okay, so that I don't even care about that comment.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
I'm just saying, ruy ruey.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
Again.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
You can't leave him on an island with Anthony every time.
Hell few people can. But again, yeah, he's never been
a great defender. He missed twenty five games and he
got traded. He's still adjusting. Can we give him a
grace period? Like last year he dispatched Aunt Edwards a
company in the conference finals. Remember the f bombs to
Rudy Gobert in his face after he hit that three.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
No, I like I like him.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
But what zach Lowe is saying, we have another zach
low bite where he talked about this, the idea of
moving off a guy that you had. Remember with the
new CBA, you were gonna have to pay him seventy
million a year. Okay, I don't want to have to
think about, well, he's not in great shape, he's getting
hurt more. Lucas had two dunks the last two years.
(39:20):
He had twenty five as a rookie. Like you're seeing
athletically a decline. Here's Zach low You.
Speaker 10 (39:28):
Can find corners of smart NBA people, team people who
who would tell you the idea of getting out ahead
of this and trading Luca is not a crazy idea.
The idea of doing it without shopping him to get
nine first round draft picks in swaps and doing this
specific trade is where the logic falls apart.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Yeah, and I think the really smart executives get ahead
of stuff. They're they're they're not reactionary, and I and
I just think they didn't get enough back. But you know,
it's when teams pick on you that's an indication. Think
about that when a team goes pick on Luca, and
(40:08):
I've seen that in this series a couple of times
they're going after him. Now I will say this, Yo
Kitch is not a great defender, but Yo Kitch is
also basically the entire offense on most nights, he didn't
have Lebron next to him. Also, he's carrying around two
hundred and sixty five pounds, and Yo Kitch isn't a
great defender, but he'll tighten it up with six minutes
(40:30):
to go. He's a capable defender. That's Luke a lot
of times is out of gas with sixty.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
So listen.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
Maybe this is the California in me speaking, But sometimes
things just happen for a reason, and maybe.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
Luca needs this wake up call. Hey y'all got dusted.
Speaker 4 (40:45):
Hey, Lebron's going to be able to get in your
face down and be like, hey, you got to get
in better state. Maybe Luca needs this. I didn't hear
that dunking sat before this morning. That's kind of a
stunning SAT. I didn't know it's that bad. But sometimes
you need something. I recently had an incident with my
call and I was super hot, heated, and then it
took me like twenty four hours. I was like, Okay,
maybe this needed to happen. It's a sign I'm going
(41:06):
to adjust some things, and maybe Luca just needs this
wake up call Colin.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
I don't know. Yeah, I just don't think he's going
to be an elite defender next year, regardless of what happened.
But I am not denying the Lakers won the trade
overwhelmingly and he is a greatest offensive player. I just
think he's a lopsided player.
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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