April 30, 2025 • 35 mins
Colin defends the NFL and the recent track record of franchise quarterbacks drafted in the first round in response to Shedeur Sanders falling to the 5th round being a "huge mistake". He believes the Knicks struggling in their series against the Pistons points out how far they are from contending with the Celtics despite the massive moves to bring in Karl-Anthony Towns and Mikal Bridges. Plus, Greg Cosell from NFL Films joins the show to breakdown the top picks from the NFL draft and how they'll fit with their new teams
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowver
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Here we go. We are live in Chicago. Wherever you
may be, however you may be watching or listening. Thanks
for making us part of your day. We got a
great one today, Greg co Sell. One hour from now,
we're gonna talk about Schaduor Sanders and Jamay cow I
was thinking about this. I don't know how much more
we're gonna talk about shudor Sanders.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
I don't, but there is something that has happened.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
When something crazy and unexpected happens, people look for answers.
So you and I and people who cover the NFL
over the last three or four days are trying to
provide answers.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
And there was more.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yesterday from a Pittsburgh Post Gazette writer.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Are you ready for it?
Speaker 5 (01:06):
I'm ready?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (01:08):
So the Steelers by not drafting chaduor Sanders. Remember, there
was only about three teams we thought were going to
take a quarterback in round one. Tennessee the Giants, who
were clearly not interested, bad interview with Shador and then
Pittsburgh for sure Cleveland by trading down. Told you they
may get a backup, but they're going to get their
(01:30):
starting quarterback next year. Well, the Pittsburgh Post Gazette rider yesterday,
I told Rich Eisen that the Steelers were not looking
at Shadoor Sanders, they were looking at backups like the
La Rams. The Steelers and Rams. This is what I
told you. I didn't buy The Rams wanted Jackson Dart.
They were interested, they thought Jackson Dart was interesting. But
the Steelers, the Rams, the Browns. Next year is the
(01:52):
year they want the quarterback. This was a backup quarterback draft.
So that's more information on Shaduur. Pittsburgh was never in
the starting quartererback market. They wanted to get the roster
ready for Aaron Rodgers draft a backup. That's why Aaron
Rodgers kind of took their word for it, but wanted
to wait. But let me just say this, can we
stop with this narrative. It's the worst take and narrative
(02:13):
happening in sports. Now, you know, the NFL just doesn't
know what they're doing with quarterbacks.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Time out.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Let me tell you first round quarterbacks currently in the NFL.
Mahomes Lamar, Burrow, Alan Herbert Stafford, Jaden Daniels, Aaron Rodgers,
c J Strowd, Jared Goff, Jordan Love, Kyler Murray. Oh,
by the way, Baker, and Sam Darnold. Not to mention,
Drake may looks really good. Bo Nick's looks really good.
(02:41):
Caleb Williams is really talented. That doesn't even count the
pro bowler Tua, who I'm not a huge fan of.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Almost all ooh ooh.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Jalen Hurtz fell to the second. Yeah, he got benched
in college, he had to transfer. He's smaller than average
and still not a great po quarterback. If you listen
to Greg Cosell, who I trust the truth is in
my life, Overwhelminglee, Bradshaw, Aikman, Peyton Marino, overwhelmingly mahomes Lamar.
(03:16):
They've all been first round picks. It's not easy to
do this, but stop making Shaduur and Dion Sanders the victim.
Here they're not. It's all really explainable. Chador didn't hire
an agent, big mistake. He just listened to his dad.
Bigger mistake. Dion had the talent to sandbag interviews, Shador doesn't.
Speaker 6 (03:38):
So.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Yes, brock Purty fell to the seventh but he was
one in six against playoff teams last year when many
of his stars weren't healthy, and nobody thinks brock perty
is an elite, world class Josh Allen athlete, he's not close. Yes,
Joe Montana went in the third round, but he doesn't
win those Super Bowls without the greatest offensive coach in
the history of the league, Bill Walsh. He got a
(04:00):
bunch of Super Bowls and he went in the sixth round,
and he doesn't win all those early Super Bowls without
the greatest coach slash defensive coach in league history, Bill Belichick.
It's all explainable.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
In my life, the best quarterbacks have overwhelmingly been in
the first round. Here's the other thing to consider is
that young men personnel is hard, but judging young men
at eighteen, nineteen, twenty, twenty one, twenty two is hard.
Boys mature more slowly than girls. Baker Mayfield. I didn't
(04:32):
think was ready at the time to be a franchise quarterback.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
He is now.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
This is hard in the NBA. Best player in the
NBA is Jokich, who was a second rounder. Best defensive
player ever is Draymond second rounder. The Knicks best player
Jalen Brunson second rounder.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
It's hard.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Young men mature more slowly, frontal, low brain stuff, and
it's tough. People miss all the time. And by the way,
it's not just quarterback Max Crosby Kinnakua.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
It's hard.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
You just don't know yes, should do or was underdrafted.
In my opinion, I would have taken him if I
was Pittsburgh, but I didn't know Pittsburgh. Hat and Aaron
Rodgers deal the story in the Pittsburgh Post Cazette. They
were never really interested. They're not going to take a quarterback,
a starting quarterback this year. So listen, take a deep breath.
(05:23):
You can't sandbag interviews. You can't do it. You can't
not hire an agent, you can't not work out at
the combine. You can't have, let's be honest, a cringey
draft room with legendary all over it. If you're a
b prospect in a really weak quarterback draft Greg Olsen yesterday, as.
Speaker 7 (05:45):
He's shown at two different spots in colleges that he
could go to teams that didn't necessarily have a great
tradition of winning and turn the program around and bring
attention and energy and buzz. Absolutely, he did it twice.
So I'm not throwing him yet. I'm a throwing him
to the Wolves and saying he has no career, But
I think he needs to take a good, hard reset
and say, you know what it's all about ball. It's
(06:07):
all about me giving myself to have a chance to
have a career in this league, and if it as
a backup, and then I work to a starter, whatever
that path is. But the league I think has shown
and the message was pretty clear, you better be really,
really talented, especially at quarterback if we're going to put
up with a lot of other attention, a lot of
other things.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
And he's just not that talented. That talented. Okay, so
Nick's pistons. I thought I thought it would be an
ugly series, but I thought the Knicks would win five.
I still think the Knicks are going to win this series,
but we have to be honest. Five points separates these
teams through five games last night. Look at the box score,
(06:52):
field goal percentage, rebounds, three point percentage points in the
paint assists.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
These are pretty even teams.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
The Knicks are a little better, but they gave up
five first round picks to get McHale Bridges and they
thought that would be the difference. He's a good player.
But here's a problem. The Knicks were built to They
wanted to build this thing to beat the Celtics, and
then something happened. Jason Tatum went from an AS to
(07:20):
an A plus and Peyton Pritchard went from nine a
game to the best bench player in the league. So
Boston was already better, and two of their players popped,
like Brunson and Jason Tatum. Those are different level players. Okay,
no GM in the league, given a choice, would take
Brunson and I love him too, right, So it's like
(07:41):
what we're seeing with Cleveland and Boston. They're good players,
very good players, like Boston's two player, Peyton Pritchard nine
a game. Peyton Pritchard now is a threat every time
he touched the ball. McHale Bridges, same player, OG pretty
much same player. Josh Hart kind of same player. Brunson good,
same player Cat can't defend great offense, same player Boston
(08:03):
was better, and Tatum is exploded, arguably the best player
in the entire playoffs, and Peyton Pritcher's become the best
bench guy in the league. So you know, in the
Knicks have always been a little like Texas football, where
brand is big college football and the NBA are better.
When those teams are great, they're fascinating. You can't take
their eyes off, and they've been in wildly historic playoff games.
(08:25):
But since nineteen eighty the Longhorns have one trophy and
since nineteen seventy four the Knicks have none. So I
think the Knicks should be front and center on the
honest trade and the honist is getting moved. That was
a mess, we called that one. We like the Pacers quickly.
That series was a mess. But I think the Knicks
built this plot. You don't give away five first round
picks for Michale Bridges unless you think that's going to
(08:47):
get us right up next to the Celtics. And the
Celtics exploded, Jason Tatum exploded, Peyton Pritcher exploded, and so
I don't think they're close I mean again, the Knicks
are a really good team with a bunch of good players.
The Celtics now have a superstar. It took Aunt Edwards
I think, until this playoff run and we all went
(09:07):
oh oh oh he arrived. And Jason Tatum has been
an a a minus player for years, didn't have the confidence.
You watched this series, you watch this season, Hey, Jason
Tatum's a different player. He plays with a confidence we
were all hoping he would three and a half years ago.
He's playing with it now with all his talent. So
I think it's just one of these things. The Knicks
(09:27):
and Pistons, I mean, the Pistons a year ago were
in a rebuild. The Nick thought McHale Bridges was the difference.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
And they're even.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
And I've said this, there's a certain clarity. And give
Detroit credit. They're playing their butt off. Ky Cunningham's amazing.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Good for them. It's cool.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
I grew up a lot of Pistons basketball teams being great,
from Bob Lanier and Dave Bing to the you know,
the bad boys, all that stuff. Give them credit, But
these teams were supposed to have a gap one year ago.
One's rebuilding and six months ago, somebody's bringing on Michale
Bridges to be to beat the Sudeltics, and they're just
really even.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Here's Jalen Brunson after.
Speaker 8 (10:06):
Yeah, I go there with the mindset to win, as
simple as that. Regardless of how we feel whatever tomorrow,
we got to turn the page. I think I said
this before. If it's a winner, to losses short term
memory in the playoffs, because you got to come out
the next day and figure out what you got to
do to win the next one.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Listen, New York is a big, loud, emotional city, and
they fell in love with this team and that's awesome,
but don't fall in love with this roster. It's just
a lot of good players. And look at how good
Sga Jokich, here comes Wemby, Aunt and Tatum have exploded
(10:44):
good in twenty twenty five, and very good is not
good enough. You can love a team two things canna
be true. You can love Brunson, but if he's your one.
After watching Aunt and Tatum this year, that's not going
to hoist a trophy. And for the record, a lot
of people I think I maybe one of them. I
think Cleveland may beat Boston. I mean, they look unbelievable.
(11:08):
At least Orlando hung around games for a half. J Mac,
I know you grew up a Knicks fan. I know
this is painful for you. I'll tell you the other thing,
the other series, which is fascinating, and I think we
knew it would be close.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Clippers Nuggets. We have to be honest here.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Russell Westbrook has been huge for Denver.
Speaker 5 (11:28):
He's been very huge.
Speaker 9 (11:29):
I poured my kid some milk in their cereal this morning,
and James Harden was on the side of the milk
carton because he's missing right now, Clopper's have no idea
where he is.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
He didn't show up last night.
Speaker 9 (11:38):
But great point by Brun said, just lack of urgency
from the Knicks last night.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Colin.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
I was devastated, man.
Speaker 9 (11:43):
I wanted them to wrap it up, get ready to
go play the Celtics this weekend.
Speaker 5 (11:47):
And now they've got to go back to Detroit. That
place is gonna be juiced up.
Speaker 9 (11:50):
I don't feel great about the Knicks right now.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah, no, it's you know, a year ago, you would
have never guessed these two teams would have been close.
After they got Michale Bridges. You're like they're not gonna
be Boston, but they can take them six. Yeah, and
then Tatum and Pritchard. You're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Woa.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Boston has separated from the NIXT so you don't have
to go back to the drawing board, but you should
probably put your name in for Giannis.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Make a run for sure at Yannis.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Okay, coming up, We've got a lot of things to
talk about. One of them is Russell Westbrook. I mean,
I've been as critical as anybody. That dude deserves a
ton of credit. He was in the first half last
night essential for Denver. Westbrook deserves love. And the other
thing is a very respected voice in NBA media calls
(12:39):
out Luca and he's right next in the hurt.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
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Speaker 1 (12:52):
All right, welcome back. So you know the Luka Donte trade.
I've said this about the media, and I can be
guilty of this. I try not to do this, but
we become an avalanche and nobody grabs a shovel, like
everybody just jumps on the avalanche to bury people in GMS.
But I said from day one on Luca, he's a
much better version of Carmelo Anthony, who is a lobsided
(13:15):
player as is Luca. All offense, no defense, not in
great shape. I would have considered for the right package
moving off Luca, who they were going to have to
pay seventy million plus a year. So Zach Lowe is
a really outstanding NBA analyst, excellent works for the ringer.
He's being upfront and honest about the reality Laker fans
(13:38):
are now realizing with Luca, Why.
Speaker 10 (13:42):
Do you have to get humiliated at the beginning of
every single playoff series before you show the world like, yeah,
I can actually put in a little bit more of
an effort on defense. I'm just tired of like, I'm
gonna be embarrassed until our backs are against the wall,
and then I'm going to show you that, yeah I
can put up a little bit of a fight. How
about you put up a fight in like game one
of the second round and now you're down three to
(14:03):
one and you're probably going home.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
And that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Kareem in his prime got traded, so did Babe Ruth
and Wayne Gretzky and Wilt Joe Montana got traded, Okay,
lou al Sinder, I mean at Milwaukee got a boatload
of picks. But it's like guys, people get traded. So
it was the return or lack thereof that was truly egregious.
(14:28):
I said, if you gave me a d you gave
me Austin Reeves and three or four first round picks.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Oh, I'd sleep on it.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Because guys who are not in great shape Luca age
more quickly. Westbrook actually feels like he's getting better in
this series against the Clipper. He's in impeccable shape. Lebron's
lasting forever. Brady lasted forever. In a sport you get tackled.
Luca had missed back to back camps. Here's an interesting
(14:57):
stat the staff found this morning. Luca's rookie year, he
had twenty five dunks. Last two years combined, he's had two.
There's a decline, and a lot of it is he's
just not in great shape. There is reason for pause
if you have to pay him seventy five million dollars.
(15:18):
Because MJ and his prime got you trophies. Lebron and
his prime got you guaranteed to the finals. Luke and
his prime. He's going to get your buckets and give
up just about his many on some nights. And I've
said this about the NFL before. There are three quarterbacks,
you know, Mahomes, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson. I'm not even
(15:39):
taking a phone call. But when Joe Burrow got his
second serious injury, I'll pick up the phone. I don't
want to trade Burrow. I don't need a trade Burrow.
It's nothing. I'm thinking about what you got for first rounders.
And I love Burrow, I love Jay Hurts. I'll pick
(16:00):
up the phone. Not picking up the phone with Lamar Allen.
You know, I think a lot of people would pick
up the phone now for Trevor Lawrence, and he was great,
So it's I just think it's not the idea of
trading a player who is lobsided, who was increasingly injured.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
More from Zach Lowe.
Speaker 10 (16:26):
Here you can find corners of smart NBA people, team
people who would tell you the idea of getting out
ahead of this and trading Luca is not a crazy idea.
The idea of doing it without shopping him to get
nine first round draft picks in swaps and doing this
specific trade is where the logic falls apart, no question.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
But you just start looking at the history of sports,
it's hard to find great players. I mean, even Michael
Jordan on the second three pet the Bulls had decided, Yeah,
this is the last one, the greatest basketball player ever.
I mean, Miami started pushing back on Lebron. We're not
going to give you everything you want. He was a
guaranteed trip to the finals, and half the time it
(17:09):
felt like you're almost you were a favorite heading into
the finals.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
So it's just didn't get enough back.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
But if you're a Laker fan watching Luca, you're now
seeing the truth and you're Nico Harrison saw that at practice,
he saw it on road, he saw it in film study.
He saw the injuries, he saw the massive decline in
dunks and vertical basketball. It's all there. If you watch,
it's all there.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
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Speaker 11 (17:37):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David, and together we're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 6 (17:42):
You could catch us weekdays from five to seven pm
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Speaker 4 (17:49):
Why should you listen to Covino and Rich.
Speaker 6 (17:51):
We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's going on
in the world.
Speaker 11 (17:55):
We have a lot of fun talking about the stories
behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture,
stories that well other shows don't seem to have the
time to discuss.
Speaker 6 (18:04):
And the fact that we've been friends for the last
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Speaker 4 (18:07):
I mean that says something, right, So check us out.
Speaker 11 (18:10):
We like to get you involved too, take your phone calls,
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Speaker 6 (18:14):
As they say, I'd say the most interactive show on
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Speaker 4 (18:18):
Interactive show on planetar.
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Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on
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Speaker 4 (18:30):
Media that's Covino and Rich.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Eli Manning is putting a bid together for a minority
interest in the Giants. So I know, Eli, I really
like this idea. Since Eli Manning moved out of his
prime the New York Giants have been They've made so
many bad decisions. Nick, I like Brian day Ball. Finally
they have a coach I like, and he better win
(18:54):
or he's gone by Thanksgiving. But they've made so many
bad decisions head coaches, up quarterbacks, general managers.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
That's upstairs stuff.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Ask yourself this, when's the last time the Hunt family
with the Chiefs butchered a free agent quarterback signing or
missed on a first round quarterback signing draft.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
It just doesn't happen very often.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Since twenty seventeen, the Giants are last in wins and
thirty first in point differential and points per game and
sack differential. It's a bad franchise. That's upstairs. Stop blaming
the coaches, Stop blaming the players. That's upstairs. Like, if
you look at consistently, it's not a coincidence that Washington
(19:38):
ran out the worst owner in the league and tripled
their win total. It's not just Jaden Daniels. Jaden doesn't
do it without the right coordinator, the right general manager,
the right culture. Jaden would not have done that with
the previous group. They just kept getting in their way.
And I'll say this, you can trust elive, and I
know I'll give you an exams of why I like
(20:01):
the Manning family. Arch Manning goes to Texas so Texas
is a massive football brand like Ohio State, Michigan, Notre Dame,
Texas big. Arch Manning doesn't get a start first year,
second year, and by the way, I think he's better
than quin yours. I think if he would have been
in the draft this year without starting in college, somebody
(20:24):
would have taken him in the second round. I really
believed that this quarterback draft somebody would have taken arch
Manning second and said, we're going to go with jeans.
Archie was good, Eli was good, Peyton, We're just going
to go with jeans. And yet he didn't transfer. He's
been a team player. It's so Manning like dignity, thoughtful
class New York Giants. They got an upstairs problem, I said,
(20:49):
the Chicago Bears finally with Ben Johnson like controlling the
draft Chicago for years. Detroit before Dan Campbell and their
new GM and executive suite, Detroit had enough staars problem.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
They didn't have a quarterback problem. That Stafford was great.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
So we always look in this sport whenever a team loses,
it's the coach. No, Washington had an upstairs problem. The
Giants do. That doesn't mean the Mars are totally inept,
but they need a fresh set of eyes and ears
and the Mannings. They make really good decisions. Football decisions,
parenting decisions, business decisions.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
They just make really good decisions.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
With that forty five years NFL films, Greg Cosell is
joining us.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
So let's just talk football. Forget all the other nonsense.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Right if Pittsburgh, So, the Rams, my understanding, didn't really
Shador was not on their board as a starter. They
like Jackson Dart. New York Giants liked Jackson Dart over Shador.
There's nothing wrong with that. I had a friend of
mine who's a former GM. He liked Jackson Dart a lot,
not as much as cam Ward, but he liked him
more than should He.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Liked him a lot.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
So, and I think everybody thinks cam was the best
quarterback in a week class.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Pittsburgh Steelers.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
According to the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, a reporter there, we're
not in the starting quarterback hunt. They looked at next year.
I'm told the Rams looked at next year. The Browns
trading down early, told you next year's class, we'll go
get backups this year. So if I was a GM
and I wasn't into Shadors playing, what on film did
(22:30):
you watch that you believe Greg could turn a general
manager off and just not see him as an elite
quarterback prospect.
Speaker 12 (22:38):
Well, I think that that I think relates to what
the league has become Colin for starting quality starting quarterbacks.
We're talking about guys that were top five quarterbacks in
the league, because if you're drafting Sanders high, that's what
you're expecting him to be a top five quarterback in
the league. So what you're dealing with is a player
who's essentially a pocket quarterback. If he's become a really
(23:00):
good quarterback in the NFL, at his core, he's a
pocket player. Now he's not immobile, it's not as if
he's a statue, but at his core he would have
to be successful as a pocket player and as a
pocket quarterback.
Speaker 5 (23:13):
His traits are good, not great.
Speaker 12 (23:15):
So where does that kind of player get drafted in
the NFL and what does he become in the NFL.
He's a pocket quarterback with good traits, he's a lower
level CJ Stroud.
Speaker 5 (23:27):
CJ.
Speaker 12 (23:27):
Stroud, essentially a pocket quarterback, is bigger, he's a better thrower.
Speaker 5 (23:33):
So CJ.
Speaker 12 (23:34):
Stroud was drafted second and has done well in his
first two years. Sanders is a similar style quarterback in
terms of his approach to the way in which he plays,
but he's not as gifted. He's smaller and doesn't throw
it as well. So where does that player get drafted?
That's why he was all over the board, just as
a player, putting everything else aside.
Speaker 5 (23:55):
I had coaches tell me that they thought he was
a backup.
Speaker 12 (23:58):
I had coaches tell me a first round pick, had
coaches telling me he's a third round pick. So he
was all over the board because his traits are not
quite at the level where it's unanimous or obvious as
to what he projects to be at the NFL level.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
So again, let's keep it to football.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
If you were to draft Jackson Dart over him, because
I know two people that prefer Jackson Dart, what did
you see about Jackson Dart that a GM would go, oh,
I like that, that's better than Shador.
Speaker 5 (24:28):
Well, that gets into the same question. I think you
have the mobility factor.
Speaker 12 (24:31):
I think Jackson thought while he's not explosive and dynamic
Jackson Dart.
Speaker 5 (24:36):
His legs are a factor. So now you get.
Speaker 12 (24:39):
Into the fact that he can make plays on third
down with his legs, and that changes the way defenses
have to play. See, the thing is you have to
think about now the NFL. We're not just doing this
in a vacuum. We're projecting players, and you see him
right here. We're projecting players to play in the NFL.
And what that means. So the fact that he can
beat you with his legs means that that chang at
(25:00):
times in critical down and distant situations the way defenses
have to play. His arm is probably as good or
maybe even a little better than Sanders, and he has
that mobility and that's a key, key factor. So Jackson
Dart could easily be seen and he was by some
teams just the football part, as a better prospect than
(25:21):
your Dor Sanders.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
So it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
I thought the Bears because the last two years in
free agents, I know, I said, Greg, they're gonna go defense.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
They didn't.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
They went offense again. I mean last year they did
it draft and free agency. This year they did it
free agency and draft. So Ben Johnson saying, listen, I'm
going to clean up my side of the ball. We'll
get the defense later. So they go Colston Loveland, Luther Burden,
who's a really could be a very interesting cover, and
Ozzie Topedo.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Matt Hasselbeck, by the way, likes what did you make
it too?
Speaker 5 (25:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (25:59):
What did you make those first three picks? And how
they'll help Caleb Williams.
Speaker 12 (26:03):
Well, they're gonna play a lot of twelve personnel. You know,
a lot of people thought they'd take Tyler Warren, but
Tyler Warren is a redundancy for them because Cole Kamet
stylistically is the same kind of player. We could say
Warren's better, but stylistically, in the context of their offense,
they're the same player. So they went with the more athletic,
a tight end in Lovelin, who gives them more. So
(26:26):
they'll play with twelve personnel at times and they'll be
really difficult.
Speaker 5 (26:30):
And then Luthor Burden.
Speaker 12 (26:31):
I mean, I loved Luthur Burton's tape, and I think
Luthor Burden in the context of a Ben Johnson offense,
and I'm not going to sit here and say he's
going to do exactly what amanas Saint Brown did, because
you never know, but I think that he stylistically fits that.
Speaker 5 (26:45):
Role in a Ben Johnson offense.
Speaker 12 (26:47):
And I think you know with Burden now they can
line up in twelve personnel with two tight ends. They
can line up in eleven personnel with a Duneesay Moore
and Burden. I mean, this is a really really good
offense in terms of the skill players. And Trapillo didn't
surprise me at all that he went where he did.
I studied his tape. He's a really good player. He
played right tackle at BC. They're going to have to
(27:10):
make a decision as to whom becomes the left tackle,
whether they can move Trpillo there, who's played that in college,
or Darnell Wright, who's been their right tackle. But Trapillo
is a really, really good prospect. So I love what
they did on the offensive side of the ball.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
So it was pretty obvious.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
There were certain teams, and I think the Chargers are
one where I had had dinner with their offensive coordinator
a couple days a week before the draft actually, and
he said, listen, we have a really good football team.
We need a little bit more juice on offense. Well,
they went and got it with Trey Harris and Hampton.
Let's talk about the Chargers. Let's talk about Hampton, the
(27:46):
running back in Trey Harris. What does that provide that
they didn't have last year?
Speaker 5 (27:52):
Well, I love Murray and Hampton. I loved his tape.
Speaker 12 (27:55):
I didn't think there was much of a difference at
all between Hampton and genty. To me, Hampton just looked
like a feature foundation back on tape. Some people thought,
and I could see that that they were similarities to
Jonathan Taylor stylistically, and he is clearly the kind of
back that you could give the ball twenty times a
game too. We know it's Greg Roman. We know they
(28:15):
want to run the football, you know. We know that's
the way they play. That's foundationally how they want to
start their offense. So now you get the play action
pass game off of that. And last year they had
pretty good success at times with the play action pass game,
so now they can do.
Speaker 5 (28:29):
More of it.
Speaker 12 (28:30):
Harris is an intriguing guy. I watched him last summer
Colin from twenty twenty three when he had a big year.
This year, he got hurt after seven games. I saw
every game, every snap. I kept going back and forth
on him. He's I just wasn't sure if he was
a vertical dimension in the league. He's long and he
has stride length, but he didn't run real well.
Speaker 5 (28:49):
And I'm just really curious as to what he will be.
Speaker 12 (28:52):
I'm a little uncertain about him, but I know a
lot of people liked him. I just kept going back
and forth in my mind. I'm very curious to see
what he becomes in the National Football League.
Speaker 5 (29:01):
But the Hampton pick, I absolutely love that.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
So I was told that Seattle wants to play Jalen
Milroe in six or seven plays a game, is that
they just think he's too athletic not to get on
the field. And I mean, I mean there were times
with Lamar Jackson you watch them his first year, You're like,
is he the best athlete on either team? I mean,
Michael Vick at the component Milroe is a sensational athlete. Yeah,
(29:27):
we know he can be a bit mechanical. But what
does he do from your film study that you think
immediately translates to production in the NFL?
Speaker 12 (29:37):
Now, well, I think one of the things that's become
really big in this league, and you see it with
the Eagles, you certainly see it with Lamar is the
importance of the quarterback run game, the design quarterback runs
a game in the red zone.
Speaker 5 (29:53):
And I think that's where Milroe can be a factor.
Speaker 12 (29:56):
Don't forget that McDonald spent a year or so with Baltimore,
so he knows all about the quarterback run game and
the design of it and how it can really break
down and attack defenses. And that's where I think Milroe
can become a factor. But I actually really like Seattle's
draft as a whole. Colin They traded up to get
They traded up to get Nick Emnarie, and I'm sure
(30:17):
all of us immediately thought that's Kyle Hamilton and the
Mike McDonald defense because they're they're stylistically similar players. So
their defense and maybe people are sleeping on it, but
what they've done defensively this offseason and what they've built defensively,
they could be one of the best defensive teams in
the NFL this year.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
No, was he was the safety from South Carolina. I
was told this by a couple of people.
Speaker 5 (30:42):
He was.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
He's kind of a can't miss. He's just so ra
so athletic. There are very few guys that can't miss,
and you know, you think, oh, we go in the
first round. But safety's a different position. But he kind
of feels like I can't miss in the NFL. So
I want to go back to Travis Hunter. So you
looked at him as a corner and you look at
him as a receiver. If I said to you, yeah, Greg,
(31:04):
he ended up being a pro bowler at one position.
If you had to guess based on your film story,
there was what he was good at both, but one
of them he becomes a pro bowler, which side would
you predict?
Speaker 12 (31:18):
I mean, he's you know, I think that early on
he would have a better chance of being a pro
bowler as a receiver.
Speaker 5 (31:25):
Than as a corner.
Speaker 12 (31:27):
Interesting because I think as a I think as a corner,
we know about the physical traits. But you watch his
tape and as a corner he doesn't really play with
any technique because he's never had to, and I think
in the NFL he'll have to. But I think the
larger question with Travis Hunter, and again I don't listen
to what everybody says Collins, so I don't know if
this has been talked about, but I think the larger
(31:48):
issue is not whether he can play one hundred and
fifteen or a hundred twenty snaps the game.
Speaker 5 (31:53):
Maybe he's just that freak that can. But the issue
is preparation during the week.
Speaker 12 (31:58):
He can't be in the offensive and the defensive meetings
at the same time. And you know how coaches, how
anal coaches are about their meetings and their details and
their nuance, and you know you just can't be in
both meetings.
Speaker 5 (32:11):
There's not enough hours in the day.
Speaker 12 (32:13):
So I'm very curious to see how that works, because
you can't be part of both sides of the ball
in all the detail that's required.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
Yeah, finally, when you looked.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
At Ashton Genty's tape, I imagine the Oregon game. The
Oregon game is one that you really zoned in on.
Because they have NFL players everywhere. It is harder to
make a guess air playing smaller schools. What is the
one the first time you looked at Ashton Jenny who
was now a Raider, the first time you looked at
his tape and went, okay, this is you know, it's
Boise State, this is real. This is a real difference makeup.
(32:49):
Was there something that popped for you at tendency or
a trick that you had seen before and went, yeah,
that's McCaffrey or that's whoever.
Speaker 12 (32:57):
Well, contact balance, because you're going to get hit in
the NFL.
Speaker 5 (33:01):
You've got to run inside between the tackles.
Speaker 12 (33:04):
You can't be a great back in the NFL by
just running on the perimeter.
Speaker 5 (33:08):
So he has this unique.
Speaker 12 (33:09):
Ability to absorb hits and keep going without really losing
any of his momentum.
Speaker 5 (33:15):
And that's a rare trait.
Speaker 12 (33:16):
So to me, his best trade is contact balance, and
that's something that is absolutely essential. Now he's got other
traits as well. I don't want to make it seem
like that's his only trade. Obviously he's a great, great prospect,
but I think the contact balance part is really really special.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
By the way, I want to add this, I watched
virtually every pick, and I know it didn't have a
lot of stars, but it's hard to convince me there
weren't a lot of good players. When Cody Simon or
file State linebacker went in the fourth, I thought he
was a really good player. I mean it was a
heart and soul of that defense. And Damian Martinez, who
(33:55):
I watch playing, Yeah that time, Greg I can't believe
it running back.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
You didn't get it either.
Speaker 12 (34:01):
Yeah, no, that to me, And again, all I can
tell you is how I evaluate the players. I'm not
one who too speaks about whether teams did a good
job or bad job, because they've got thirty people doing
this and these guys work really hard. But I really
like Damian Martinez. I watched him last summer when he
was at Oregon State. I watched him this year at
the University of Miami. I think this guy, in the
(34:23):
right system could actually be a feature back. And to
be honest with you, and we'll see how it plays out.
We'll see how it plays out in camp. But I
personally think he's a better runner. Now, again, there may
be other elements here, but he's a better runner than
Zach Charbonay.
Speaker 5 (34:38):
And you know, Zach Charboney right now is the number
two back in Seattle.
Speaker 12 (34:41):
So we'll see how it plays out through OTA's mini
camp and training camp. But I really like Damian Martinez.
I was really surprised he went in the seventh round.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Now, no, that jumped out to me. I said, Okay,
you can tell me this isn't a great draft. That
is an NFL you think he's a feature back. All
I know is that guy. I watched him in college
five yards of carry, run over, people run past him.
He was five yards of carry.
Speaker 5 (35:05):
And power translates. You know, that's the thing.
Speaker 12 (35:07):
There's a lot of great athletes in the NFL, as
we know Colin, but power is one thing at all
positions that normally translates, and he's a powerful runner.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Greg Cosel forty five years NFL Films. Good seeing again,
smart stuff as always, Greg
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
noone Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at
Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every
day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio
or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowver
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Here we go. We are live in Chicago. Wherever you
may be, however you may be watching or listening. Thanks
for making us part of your day. We got a
great one today, Greg co Sell. One hour from now,
we're gonna talk about Schaduor Sanders and Jamay cow I
was thinking about this. I don't know how much more
we're gonna talk about shudor Sanders.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
I don't, but there is something that has happened.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
When something crazy and unexpected happens, people look for answers.
So you and I and people who cover the NFL
over the last three or four days are trying to
provide answers.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
And there was more.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yesterday from a Pittsburgh Post Gazette writer.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Are you ready for it?
Speaker 5 (01:06):
I'm ready?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (01:08):
So the Steelers by not drafting chaduor Sanders. Remember, there
was only about three teams we thought were going to
take a quarterback in round one. Tennessee the Giants, who
were clearly not interested, bad interview with Shador and then
Pittsburgh for sure Cleveland by trading down. Told you they
may get a backup, but they're going to get their
(01:30):
starting quarterback next year. Well, the Pittsburgh Post Gazette rider yesterday,
I told Rich Eisen that the Steelers were not looking
at Shadoor Sanders, they were looking at backups like the
La Rams. The Steelers and Rams. This is what I
told you. I didn't buy The Rams wanted Jackson Dart.
They were interested, they thought Jackson Dart was interesting. But
the Steelers, the Rams, the Browns. Next year is the
(01:52):
year they want the quarterback. This was a backup quarterback draft.
So that's more information on Shaduur. Pittsburgh was never in
the starting quartererback market. They wanted to get the roster
ready for Aaron Rodgers draft a backup. That's why Aaron
Rodgers kind of took their word for it, but wanted
to wait. But let me just say this, can we
stop with this narrative. It's the worst take and narrative
(02:13):
happening in sports. Now, you know, the NFL just doesn't
know what they're doing with quarterbacks.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Time out.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Let me tell you first round quarterbacks currently in the NFL.
Mahomes Lamar, Burrow, Alan Herbert Stafford, Jaden Daniels, Aaron Rodgers,
c J Strowd, Jared Goff, Jordan Love, Kyler Murray. Oh,
by the way, Baker, and Sam Darnold. Not to mention,
Drake may looks really good. Bo Nick's looks really good.
(02:41):
Caleb Williams is really talented. That doesn't even count the
pro bowler Tua, who I'm not a huge fan of.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Almost all ooh ooh.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Jalen Hurtz fell to the second. Yeah, he got benched
in college, he had to transfer. He's smaller than average
and still not a great po quarterback. If you listen
to Greg Cosell, who I trust the truth is in
my life, Overwhelminglee, Bradshaw, Aikman, Peyton Marino, overwhelmingly mahomes Lamar.
(03:16):
They've all been first round picks. It's not easy to
do this, but stop making Shaduur and Dion Sanders the victim.
Here they're not. It's all really explainable. Chador didn't hire
an agent, big mistake. He just listened to his dad.
Bigger mistake. Dion had the talent to sandbag interviews, Shador doesn't.
Speaker 6 (03:38):
So.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Yes, brock Purty fell to the seventh but he was
one in six against playoff teams last year when many
of his stars weren't healthy, and nobody thinks brock perty
is an elite, world class Josh Allen athlete, he's not close. Yes,
Joe Montana went in the third round, but he doesn't
win those Super Bowls without the greatest offensive coach in
the history of the league, Bill Walsh. He got a
(04:00):
bunch of Super Bowls and he went in the sixth round,
and he doesn't win all those early Super Bowls without
the greatest coach slash defensive coach in league history, Bill Belichick.
It's all explainable.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
In my life, the best quarterbacks have overwhelmingly been in
the first round. Here's the other thing to consider is
that young men personnel is hard, but judging young men
at eighteen, nineteen, twenty, twenty one, twenty two is hard.
Boys mature more slowly than girls. Baker Mayfield. I didn't
(04:32):
think was ready at the time to be a franchise quarterback.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
He is now.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
This is hard in the NBA. Best player in the
NBA is Jokich, who was a second rounder. Best defensive
player ever is Draymond second rounder. The Knicks best player
Jalen Brunson second rounder.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
It's hard.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Young men mature more slowly, frontal, low brain stuff, and
it's tough. People miss all the time. And by the way,
it's not just quarterback Max Crosby Kinnakua.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
It's hard.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
You just don't know yes, should do or was underdrafted.
In my opinion, I would have taken him if I
was Pittsburgh, but I didn't know Pittsburgh. Hat and Aaron
Rodgers deal the story in the Pittsburgh Post Cazette. They
were never really interested. They're not going to take a quarterback,
a starting quarterback this year. So listen, take a deep breath.
(05:23):
You can't sandbag interviews. You can't do it. You can't
not hire an agent, you can't not work out at
the combine. You can't have, let's be honest, a cringey
draft room with legendary all over it. If you're a
b prospect in a really weak quarterback draft Greg Olsen yesterday, as.
Speaker 7 (05:45):
He's shown at two different spots in colleges that he
could go to teams that didn't necessarily have a great
tradition of winning and turn the program around and bring
attention and energy and buzz. Absolutely, he did it twice.
So I'm not throwing him yet. I'm a throwing him
to the Wolves and saying he has no career, But
I think he needs to take a good, hard reset
and say, you know what it's all about ball. It's
(06:07):
all about me giving myself to have a chance to
have a career in this league, and if it as
a backup, and then I work to a starter, whatever
that path is. But the league I think has shown
and the message was pretty clear, you better be really,
really talented, especially at quarterback if we're going to put
up with a lot of other attention, a lot of
other things.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
And he's just not that talented. That talented. Okay, so
Nick's pistons. I thought I thought it would be an
ugly series, but I thought the Knicks would win five.
I still think the Knicks are going to win this series,
but we have to be honest. Five points separates these
teams through five games last night. Look at the box score,
(06:52):
field goal percentage, rebounds, three point percentage points in the
paint assists.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
These are pretty even teams.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
The Knicks are a little better, but they gave up
five first round picks to get McHale Bridges and they
thought that would be the difference. He's a good player.
But here's a problem. The Knicks were built to They
wanted to build this thing to beat the Celtics, and
then something happened. Jason Tatum went from an AS to
(07:20):
an A plus and Peyton Pritchard went from nine a
game to the best bench player in the league. So
Boston was already better, and two of their players popped,
like Brunson and Jason Tatum. Those are different level players. Okay,
no GM in the league, given a choice, would take
Brunson and I love him too, right, So it's like
(07:41):
what we're seeing with Cleveland and Boston. They're good players,
very good players, like Boston's two player, Peyton Pritchard nine
a game. Peyton Pritchard now is a threat every time
he touched the ball. McHale Bridges, same player, OG pretty
much same player. Josh Hart kind of same player. Brunson good,
same player Cat can't defend great offense, same player Boston
(08:03):
was better, and Tatum is exploded, arguably the best player
in the entire playoffs, and Peyton Pritcher's become the best
bench guy in the league. So you know, in the
Knicks have always been a little like Texas football, where
brand is big college football and the NBA are better.
When those teams are great, they're fascinating. You can't take
their eyes off, and they've been in wildly historic playoff games.
(08:25):
But since nineteen eighty the Longhorns have one trophy and
since nineteen seventy four the Knicks have none. So I
think the Knicks should be front and center on the
honest trade and the honist is getting moved. That was
a mess, we called that one. We like the Pacers quickly.
That series was a mess. But I think the Knicks
built this plot. You don't give away five first round
picks for Michale Bridges unless you think that's going to
(08:47):
get us right up next to the Celtics. And the
Celtics exploded, Jason Tatum exploded, Peyton Pritcher exploded, and so
I don't think they're close I mean again, the Knicks
are a really good team with a bunch of good players.
The Celtics now have a superstar. It took Aunt Edwards
I think, until this playoff run and we all went
(09:07):
oh oh oh he arrived. And Jason Tatum has been
an a a minus player for years, didn't have the confidence.
You watched this series, you watch this season, Hey, Jason
Tatum's a different player. He plays with a confidence we
were all hoping he would three and a half years ago.
He's playing with it now with all his talent. So
I think it's just one of these things. The Knicks
(09:27):
and Pistons, I mean, the Pistons a year ago were
in a rebuild. The Nick thought McHale Bridges was the difference.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
And they're even.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
And I've said this, there's a certain clarity. And give
Detroit credit. They're playing their butt off. Ky Cunningham's amazing.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Good for them. It's cool.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
I grew up a lot of Pistons basketball teams being great,
from Bob Lanier and Dave Bing to the you know,
the bad boys, all that stuff. Give them credit, But
these teams were supposed to have a gap one year ago.
One's rebuilding and six months ago, somebody's bringing on Michale
Bridges to be to beat the Sudeltics, and they're just
really even.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Here's Jalen Brunson after.
Speaker 8 (10:06):
Yeah, I go there with the mindset to win, as
simple as that. Regardless of how we feel whatever tomorrow,
we got to turn the page. I think I said
this before. If it's a winner, to losses short term
memory in the playoffs, because you got to come out
the next day and figure out what you got to
do to win the next one.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Listen, New York is a big, loud, emotional city, and
they fell in love with this team and that's awesome,
but don't fall in love with this roster. It's just
a lot of good players. And look at how good
Sga Jokich, here comes Wemby, Aunt and Tatum have exploded
(10:44):
good in twenty twenty five, and very good is not
good enough. You can love a team two things canna
be true. You can love Brunson, but if he's your one.
After watching Aunt and Tatum this year, that's not going
to hoist a trophy. And for the record, a lot
of people I think I maybe one of them. I
think Cleveland may beat Boston. I mean, they look unbelievable.
(11:08):
At least Orlando hung around games for a half. J Mac,
I know you grew up a Knicks fan. I know
this is painful for you. I'll tell you the other thing,
the other series, which is fascinating, and I think we
knew it would be close.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Clippers Nuggets. We have to be honest here.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Russell Westbrook has been huge for Denver.
Speaker 5 (11:28):
He's been very huge.
Speaker 9 (11:29):
I poured my kid some milk in their cereal this morning,
and James Harden was on the side of the milk
carton because he's missing right now, Clopper's have no idea
where he is.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
He didn't show up last night.
Speaker 9 (11:38):
But great point by Brun said, just lack of urgency
from the Knicks last night.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Colin.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
I was devastated, man.
Speaker 9 (11:43):
I wanted them to wrap it up, get ready to
go play the Celtics this weekend.
Speaker 5 (11:47):
And now they've got to go back to Detroit. That
place is gonna be juiced up.
Speaker 9 (11:50):
I don't feel great about the Knicks right now.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah, no, it's you know, a year ago, you would
have never guessed these two teams would have been close.
After they got Michale Bridges. You're like they're not gonna
be Boston, but they can take them six. Yeah, and
then Tatum and Pritchard. You're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Woa.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Boston has separated from the NIXT so you don't have
to go back to the drawing board, but you should
probably put your name in for Giannis.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Make a run for sure at Yannis.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Okay, coming up, We've got a lot of things to
talk about. One of them is Russell Westbrook. I mean,
I've been as critical as anybody. That dude deserves a
ton of credit. He was in the first half last
night essential for Denver. Westbrook deserves love. And the other
thing is a very respected voice in NBA media calls
(12:39):
out Luca and he's right next in the hurt.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
and Noone Eastern Non A em Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
All right, welcome back. So you know the Luka Donte trade.
I've said this about the media, and I can be
guilty of this. I try not to do this, but
we become an avalanche and nobody grabs a shovel, like
everybody just jumps on the avalanche to bury people in GMS.
But I said from day one on Luca, he's a
much better version of Carmelo Anthony, who is a lobsided
(13:15):
player as is Luca. All offense, no defense, not in
great shape. I would have considered for the right package
moving off Luca, who they were going to have to
pay seventy million plus a year. So Zach Lowe is
a really outstanding NBA analyst, excellent works for the ringer.
He's being upfront and honest about the reality Laker fans
(13:38):
are now realizing with Luca, Why.
Speaker 10 (13:42):
Do you have to get humiliated at the beginning of
every single playoff series before you show the world like, yeah,
I can actually put in a little bit more of
an effort on defense. I'm just tired of like, I'm
gonna be embarrassed until our backs are against the wall,
and then I'm going to show you that, yeah I
can put up a little bit of a fight. How
about you put up a fight in like game one
of the second round and now you're down three to
(14:03):
one and you're probably going home.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
And that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Kareem in his prime got traded, so did Babe Ruth
and Wayne Gretzky and Wilt Joe Montana got traded, Okay,
lou al Sinder, I mean at Milwaukee got a boatload
of picks. But it's like guys, people get traded. So
it was the return or lack thereof that was truly egregious.
(14:28):
I said, if you gave me a d you gave
me Austin Reeves and three or four first round picks.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Oh, I'd sleep on it.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Because guys who are not in great shape Luca age
more quickly. Westbrook actually feels like he's getting better in
this series against the Clipper. He's in impeccable shape. Lebron's
lasting forever. Brady lasted forever. In a sport you get tackled.
Luca had missed back to back camps. Here's an interesting
(14:57):
stat the staff found this morning. Luca's rookie year, he
had twenty five dunks. Last two years combined, he's had two.
There's a decline, and a lot of it is he's
just not in great shape. There is reason for pause
if you have to pay him seventy five million dollars.
(15:18):
Because MJ and his prime got you trophies. Lebron and
his prime got you guaranteed to the finals. Luke and
his prime. He's going to get your buckets and give
up just about his many on some nights. And I've
said this about the NFL before. There are three quarterbacks,
you know, Mahomes, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson. I'm not even
(15:39):
taking a phone call. But when Joe Burrow got his
second serious injury, I'll pick up the phone. I don't
want to trade Burrow. I don't need a trade Burrow.
It's nothing. I'm thinking about what you got for first rounders.
And I love Burrow, I love Jay Hurts. I'll pick
(16:00):
up the phone. Not picking up the phone with Lamar Allen.
You know, I think a lot of people would pick
up the phone now for Trevor Lawrence, and he was great,
So it's I just think it's not the idea of
trading a player who is lobsided, who was increasingly injured.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
More from Zach Lowe.
Speaker 10 (16:26):
Here you can find corners of smart NBA people, team
people who would tell you the idea of getting out
ahead of this and trading Luca is not a crazy idea.
The idea of doing it without shopping him to get
nine first round draft picks in swaps and doing this
specific trade is where the logic falls apart, no question.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
But you just start looking at the history of sports,
it's hard to find great players. I mean, even Michael
Jordan on the second three pet the Bulls had decided, Yeah,
this is the last one, the greatest basketball player ever.
I mean, Miami started pushing back on Lebron. We're not
going to give you everything you want. He was a
guaranteed trip to the finals, and half the time it
(17:09):
felt like you're almost you were a favorite heading into
the finals.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
So it's just didn't get enough back.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
But if you're a Laker fan watching Luca, you're now
seeing the truth and you're Nico Harrison saw that at practice,
he saw it on road, he saw it in film study.
He saw the injuries, he saw the massive decline in
dunks and vertical basketball. It's all there. If you watch,
it's all there.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Noone Eastern, nine am Pacific.
Speaker 11 (17:37):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David, and together we're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 6 (17:42):
You could catch us weekdays from five to seven pm
Eastern two to four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and
of course the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
Why should you listen to Covino and Rich.
Speaker 6 (17:51):
We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's going on
in the world.
Speaker 11 (17:55):
We have a lot of fun talking about the stories
behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture,
stories that well other shows don't seem to have the
time to discuss.
Speaker 6 (18:04):
And the fact that we've been friends for the last
twenty years and still work together.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
I mean that says something, right, So check us out.
Speaker 11 (18:10):
We like to get you involved too, take your phone calls,
chop it up.
Speaker 6 (18:14):
As they say, I'd say the most interactive show on
Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
Interactive show on planetar.
Speaker 11 (18:19):
Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on
Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app from five to
seven pm Eastern two to four Pacific, And if you
miss any of the live show, just search Kovino on
and Rich wherever you get your podcasts, and of course
on social.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
Media that's Covino and Rich.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Eli Manning is putting a bid together for a minority
interest in the Giants. So I know, Eli, I really
like this idea. Since Eli Manning moved out of his
prime the New York Giants have been They've made so
many bad decisions. Nick, I like Brian day Ball. Finally
they have a coach I like, and he better win
(18:54):
or he's gone by Thanksgiving. But they've made so many
bad decisions head coaches, up quarterbacks, general managers.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
That's upstairs stuff.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Ask yourself this, when's the last time the Hunt family
with the Chiefs butchered a free agent quarterback signing or
missed on a first round quarterback signing draft.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
It just doesn't happen very often.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Since twenty seventeen, the Giants are last in wins and
thirty first in point differential and points per game and
sack differential. It's a bad franchise. That's upstairs. Stop blaming
the coaches, Stop blaming the players. That's upstairs. Like, if
you look at consistently, it's not a coincidence that Washington
(19:38):
ran out the worst owner in the league and tripled
their win total. It's not just Jaden Daniels. Jaden doesn't
do it without the right coordinator, the right general manager,
the right culture. Jaden would not have done that with
the previous group. They just kept getting in their way.
And I'll say this, you can trust elive, and I
know I'll give you an exams of why I like
(20:01):
the Manning family. Arch Manning goes to Texas so Texas
is a massive football brand like Ohio State, Michigan, Notre Dame,
Texas big. Arch Manning doesn't get a start first year,
second year, and by the way, I think he's better
than quin yours. I think if he would have been
in the draft this year without starting in college, somebody
(20:24):
would have taken him in the second round. I really
believed that this quarterback draft somebody would have taken arch
Manning second and said, we're going to go with jeans.
Archie was good, Eli was good, Peyton, We're just going
to go with jeans. And yet he didn't transfer. He's
been a team player. It's so Manning like dignity, thoughtful
class New York Giants. They got an upstairs problem, I said,
(20:49):
the Chicago Bears finally with Ben Johnson like controlling the
draft Chicago for years. Detroit before Dan Campbell and their
new GM and executive suite, Detroit had enough staars problem.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
They didn't have a quarterback problem. That Stafford was great.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
So we always look in this sport whenever a team loses,
it's the coach. No, Washington had an upstairs problem. The
Giants do. That doesn't mean the Mars are totally inept,
but they need a fresh set of eyes and ears
and the Mannings. They make really good decisions. Football decisions,
parenting decisions, business decisions.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
They just make really good decisions.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
With that forty five years NFL films, Greg Cosell is
joining us.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
So let's just talk football. Forget all the other nonsense.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Right if Pittsburgh, So, the Rams, my understanding, didn't really
Shador was not on their board as a starter. They
like Jackson Dart. New York Giants liked Jackson Dart over Shador.
There's nothing wrong with that. I had a friend of
mine who's a former GM. He liked Jackson Dart a lot,
not as much as cam Ward, but he liked him
more than should He.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Liked him a lot.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
So, and I think everybody thinks cam was the best
quarterback in a week class.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Pittsburgh Steelers.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
According to the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, a reporter there, we're
not in the starting quarterback hunt. They looked at next year.
I'm told the Rams looked at next year. The Browns
trading down early, told you next year's class, we'll go
get backups this year. So if I was a GM
and I wasn't into Shadors playing, what on film did
(22:30):
you watch that you believe Greg could turn a general
manager off and just not see him as an elite
quarterback prospect.
Speaker 12 (22:38):
Well, I think that that I think relates to what
the league has become Colin for starting quality starting quarterbacks.
We're talking about guys that were top five quarterbacks in
the league, because if you're drafting Sanders high, that's what
you're expecting him to be a top five quarterback in
the league. So what you're dealing with is a player
who's essentially a pocket quarterback. If he's become a really
(23:00):
good quarterback in the NFL, at his core, he's a
pocket player. Now he's not immobile, it's not as if
he's a statue, but at his core he would have
to be successful as a pocket player and as a
pocket quarterback.
Speaker 5 (23:13):
His traits are good, not great.
Speaker 12 (23:15):
So where does that kind of player get drafted in
the NFL and what does he become in the NFL.
He's a pocket quarterback with good traits, he's a lower
level CJ Stroud.
Speaker 5 (23:27):
CJ.
Speaker 12 (23:27):
Stroud, essentially a pocket quarterback, is bigger, he's a better thrower.
Speaker 5 (23:33):
So CJ.
Speaker 12 (23:34):
Stroud was drafted second and has done well in his
first two years. Sanders is a similar style quarterback in
terms of his approach to the way in which he plays,
but he's not as gifted. He's smaller and doesn't throw
it as well. So where does that player get drafted?
That's why he was all over the board, just as
a player, putting everything else aside.
Speaker 5 (23:55):
I had coaches tell me that they thought he was
a backup.
Speaker 12 (23:58):
I had coaches tell me a first round pick, had
coaches telling me he's a third round pick. So he
was all over the board because his traits are not
quite at the level where it's unanimous or obvious as
to what he projects to be at the NFL level.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
So again, let's keep it to football.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
If you were to draft Jackson Dart over him, because
I know two people that prefer Jackson Dart, what did
you see about Jackson Dart that a GM would go, oh,
I like that, that's better than Shador.
Speaker 5 (24:28):
Well, that gets into the same question. I think you
have the mobility factor.
Speaker 12 (24:31):
I think Jackson thought while he's not explosive and dynamic
Jackson Dart.
Speaker 5 (24:36):
His legs are a factor. So now you get.
Speaker 12 (24:39):
Into the fact that he can make plays on third
down with his legs, and that changes the way defenses
have to play. See, the thing is you have to
think about now the NFL. We're not just doing this
in a vacuum. We're projecting players, and you see him
right here. We're projecting players to play in the NFL.
And what that means. So the fact that he can
beat you with his legs means that that chang at
(25:00):
times in critical down and distant situations the way defenses
have to play. His arm is probably as good or
maybe even a little better than Sanders, and he has
that mobility and that's a key, key factor. So Jackson
Dart could easily be seen and he was by some
teams just the football part, as a better prospect than
(25:21):
your Dor Sanders.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
So it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
I thought the Bears because the last two years in
free agents, I know, I said, Greg, they're gonna go defense.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
They didn't.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
They went offense again. I mean last year they did
it draft and free agency. This year they did it
free agency and draft. So Ben Johnson saying, listen, I'm
going to clean up my side of the ball. We'll
get the defense later. So they go Colston Loveland, Luther Burden,
who's a really could be a very interesting cover, and
Ozzie Topedo.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Matt Hasselbeck, by the way, likes what did you make
it too?
Speaker 5 (25:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (25:59):
What did you make those first three picks? And how
they'll help Caleb Williams.
Speaker 12 (26:03):
Well, they're gonna play a lot of twelve personnel. You know,
a lot of people thought they'd take Tyler Warren, but
Tyler Warren is a redundancy for them because Cole Kamet
stylistically is the same kind of player. We could say
Warren's better, but stylistically, in the context of their offense,
they're the same player. So they went with the more athletic,
a tight end in Lovelin, who gives them more. So
(26:26):
they'll play with twelve personnel at times and they'll be
really difficult.
Speaker 5 (26:30):
And then Luthor Burden.
Speaker 12 (26:31):
I mean, I loved Luthur Burton's tape, and I think
Luthor Burden in the context of a Ben Johnson offense,
and I'm not going to sit here and say he's
going to do exactly what amanas Saint Brown did, because
you never know, but I think that he stylistically fits that.
Speaker 5 (26:45):
Role in a Ben Johnson offense.
Speaker 12 (26:47):
And I think you know with Burden now they can
line up in twelve personnel with two tight ends. They
can line up in eleven personnel with a Duneesay Moore
and Burden. I mean, this is a really really good
offense in terms of the skill players. And Trapillo didn't
surprise me at all that he went where he did.
I studied his tape. He's a really good player. He
played right tackle at BC. They're going to have to
(27:10):
make a decision as to whom becomes the left tackle,
whether they can move Trpillo there, who's played that in college,
or Darnell Wright, who's been their right tackle. But Trapillo
is a really, really good prospect. So I love what
they did on the offensive side of the ball.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
So it was pretty obvious.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
There were certain teams, and I think the Chargers are
one where I had had dinner with their offensive coordinator
a couple days a week before the draft actually, and
he said, listen, we have a really good football team.
We need a little bit more juice on offense. Well,
they went and got it with Trey Harris and Hampton.
Let's talk about the Chargers. Let's talk about Hampton, the
(27:46):
running back in Trey Harris. What does that provide that
they didn't have last year?
Speaker 5 (27:52):
Well, I love Murray and Hampton. I loved his tape.
Speaker 12 (27:55):
I didn't think there was much of a difference at
all between Hampton and genty. To me, Hampton just looked
like a feature foundation back on tape. Some people thought,
and I could see that that they were similarities to
Jonathan Taylor stylistically, and he is clearly the kind of
back that you could give the ball twenty times a
game too. We know it's Greg Roman. We know they
(28:15):
want to run the football, you know. We know that's
the way they play. That's foundationally how they want to
start their offense. So now you get the play action
pass game off of that. And last year they had
pretty good success at times with the play action pass game,
so now they can do.
Speaker 5 (28:29):
More of it.
Speaker 12 (28:30):
Harris is an intriguing guy. I watched him last summer
Colin from twenty twenty three when he had a big year.
This year, he got hurt after seven games. I saw
every game, every snap. I kept going back and forth
on him. He's I just wasn't sure if he was
a vertical dimension in the league. He's long and he
has stride length, but he didn't run real well.
Speaker 5 (28:49):
And I'm just really curious as to what he will be.
Speaker 12 (28:52):
I'm a little uncertain about him, but I know a
lot of people liked him. I just kept going back
and forth in my mind. I'm very curious to see
what he becomes in the National Football League.
Speaker 5 (29:01):
But the Hampton pick, I absolutely love that.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
So I was told that Seattle wants to play Jalen
Milroe in six or seven plays a game, is that
they just think he's too athletic not to get on
the field. And I mean, I mean there were times
with Lamar Jackson you watch them his first year, You're like,
is he the best athlete on either team? I mean,
Michael Vick at the component Milroe is a sensational athlete. Yeah,
(29:27):
we know he can be a bit mechanical. But what
does he do from your film study that you think
immediately translates to production in the NFL?
Speaker 12 (29:37):
Now, well, I think one of the things that's become
really big in this league, and you see it with
the Eagles, you certainly see it with Lamar is the
importance of the quarterback run game, the design quarterback runs
a game in the red zone.
Speaker 5 (29:53):
And I think that's where Milroe can be a factor.
Speaker 12 (29:56):
Don't forget that McDonald spent a year or so with Baltimore,
so he knows all about the quarterback run game and
the design of it and how it can really break
down and attack defenses. And that's where I think Milroe
can become a factor. But I actually really like Seattle's
draft as a whole. Colin They traded up to get
They traded up to get Nick Emnarie, and I'm sure
(30:17):
all of us immediately thought that's Kyle Hamilton and the
Mike McDonald defense because they're they're stylistically similar players. So
their defense and maybe people are sleeping on it, but
what they've done defensively this offseason and what they've built defensively,
they could be one of the best defensive teams in
the NFL this year.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
No, was he was the safety from South Carolina. I
was told this by a couple of people.
Speaker 5 (30:42):
He was.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
He's kind of a can't miss. He's just so ra
so athletic. There are very few guys that can't miss,
and you know, you think, oh, we go in the
first round. But safety's a different position. But he kind
of feels like I can't miss in the NFL. So
I want to go back to Travis Hunter. So you
looked at him as a corner and you look at
him as a receiver. If I said to you, yeah, Greg,
(31:04):
he ended up being a pro bowler at one position.
If you had to guess based on your film story,
there was what he was good at both, but one
of them he becomes a pro bowler, which side would
you predict?
Speaker 12 (31:18):
I mean, he's you know, I think that early on
he would have a better chance of being a pro
bowler as a receiver.
Speaker 5 (31:25):
Than as a corner.
Speaker 12 (31:27):
Interesting because I think as a I think as a corner,
we know about the physical traits. But you watch his
tape and as a corner he doesn't really play with
any technique because he's never had to, and I think
in the NFL he'll have to. But I think the
larger question with Travis Hunter, and again I don't listen
to what everybody says Collins, so I don't know if
this has been talked about, but I think the larger
(31:48):
issue is not whether he can play one hundred and
fifteen or a hundred twenty snaps the game.
Speaker 5 (31:53):
Maybe he's just that freak that can. But the issue
is preparation during the week.
Speaker 12 (31:58):
He can't be in the offensive and the defensive meetings
at the same time. And you know how coaches, how
anal coaches are about their meetings and their details and
their nuance, and you know you just can't be in
both meetings.
Speaker 5 (32:11):
There's not enough hours in the day.
Speaker 12 (32:13):
So I'm very curious to see how that works, because
you can't be part of both sides of the ball
in all the detail that's required.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
Yeah, finally, when you looked.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
At Ashton Genty's tape, I imagine the Oregon game. The
Oregon game is one that you really zoned in on.
Because they have NFL players everywhere. It is harder to
make a guess air playing smaller schools. What is the
one the first time you looked at Ashton Jenny who
was now a Raider, the first time you looked at
his tape and went, okay, this is you know, it's
Boise State, this is real. This is a real difference makeup.
(32:49):
Was there something that popped for you at tendency or
a trick that you had seen before and went, yeah,
that's McCaffrey or that's whoever.
Speaker 12 (32:57):
Well, contact balance, because you're going to get hit in
the NFL.
Speaker 5 (33:01):
You've got to run inside between the tackles.
Speaker 12 (33:04):
You can't be a great back in the NFL by
just running on the perimeter.
Speaker 5 (33:08):
So he has this unique.
Speaker 12 (33:09):
Ability to absorb hits and keep going without really losing
any of his momentum.
Speaker 5 (33:15):
And that's a rare trait.
Speaker 12 (33:16):
So to me, his best trade is contact balance, and
that's something that is absolutely essential. Now he's got other
traits as well. I don't want to make it seem
like that's his only trade. Obviously he's a great, great prospect,
but I think the contact balance part is really really special.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
By the way, I want to add this, I watched
virtually every pick, and I know it didn't have a
lot of stars, but it's hard to convince me there
weren't a lot of good players. When Cody Simon or
file State linebacker went in the fourth, I thought he
was a really good player. I mean it was a
heart and soul of that defense. And Damian Martinez, who
(33:55):
I watch playing, Yeah that time, Greg I can't believe
it running back.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
You didn't get it either.
Speaker 12 (34:01):
Yeah, no, that to me, And again, all I can
tell you is how I evaluate the players. I'm not
one who too speaks about whether teams did a good
job or bad job, because they've got thirty people doing
this and these guys work really hard. But I really
like Damian Martinez. I watched him last summer when he
was at Oregon State. I watched him this year at
the University of Miami. I think this guy, in the
(34:23):
right system could actually be a feature back. And to
be honest with you, and we'll see how it plays out.
We'll see how it plays out in camp. But I
personally think he's a better runner. Now, again, there may
be other elements here, but he's a better runner than
Zach Charbonay.
Speaker 5 (34:38):
And you know, Zach Charboney right now is the number
two back in Seattle.
Speaker 12 (34:41):
So we'll see how it plays out through OTA's mini
camp and training camp. But I really like Damian Martinez.
I was really surprised he went in the seventh round.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Now, no, that jumped out to me. I said, Okay,
you can tell me this isn't a great draft. That
is an NFL you think he's a feature back. All
I know is that guy. I watched him in college
five yards of carry, run over, people run past him.
He was five yards of carry.
Speaker 5 (35:05):
And power translates. You know, that's the thing.
Speaker 12 (35:07):
There's a lot of great athletes in the NFL, as
we know Colin, but power is one thing at all
positions that normally translates, and he's a powerful runner.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Greg Cosel forty five years NFL Films. Good seeing again,
smart stuff as always, Greg
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