May 3, 2025 • 58 mins
Why Shedeur Sanders fell in the draft
Where Colin was right and where he was wrong
Fox Sports NFL analyst Greg Olsen joins the show to explain what makes #1 overall pick Cam Ward special after a stellar season at Olsen's alma mater University of Miami
Thoughts on the Lakers early playoff exit
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
All right, it is Monday, after the draft and with
the NBA playoffs revving up. Look at those Tea Wolves,
Lakers in trouble and reeling.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
We are live. It's the Herd.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Wherever you may be and however you may be listening
one hour from now. Colin was right, Colin was wrong.
We have plenty of both well.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Jmack.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
It's funny. I have said this for a long time.
I've been saying this for about a decade. You never
get lied to more in our business than a month
before the NFL Draft.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I've said that one hundred times.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
You get so much misinformation fed to you, as mel
kiper a month before the NFL Draft. So a lot
of stories we start with us. As Shader Sanders was sliding.
Suddenly stories started to pop out from Justina Anderson, Todd
mcshae a Jonathan Jones, NFL insider for CBS. Stuff that
(01:27):
wasn't out there as much pre draft. I mean, we
knew that legendary draft room. We could see that was
a bit cringe. But when people were starting to explain,
well what happened, well, stories started coming out that he
sandbagged certain interviews or was brash. Bruce Feldman wrote an
article that I read he not only didn't compete at
(01:50):
the Senior Bowl or NFL scouting Combine, a former NFL
quarterback coach. Feldman spoke was Sunday morning, said not surprising.
The intel I was getting on Sanders was shocking. He
had no self awareness? So why did he drop? Am
I surprised?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Shocked?
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Actually I would have taken him if I was the Steelers.
But between his dad Dion, who has many friends in
the media, saying during the Super Bowl, on multiple interviews,
we will dictate terms, we will not play for certain teams,
and then between Sanders should do or sandbagging interviews, that
probably explains it.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
So I'll tell you after the show.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Friday, before Round two, I talked to two different times
an executive in the league asking questions, what do you
think of go he in. This executive said to me,
he said, if he doesn't go in the first six
to eight picks at the top of the second round,
then people view him as a backup. And I and
(02:48):
I'll quote it here, I'm not sure how many teams
want that circus in the building as a backup. Remember
Tim Tebow, celebrity backup a mess in New York. Bill
Belichick made a decision once Mac Jones beat him out
in New England.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Remember they let Cam go.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Nobody wants a celebrity backup quarterback, especially when Dion the
Dad waited until mid to late March to say, okay,
now anybody can draft my son. So now, was I surprised? Yes,
Pittsburgh didn't have a quarterback in a division with Joe
Burrow and Lamar Jackson. I mean, I don't know who
their quarterback is. But Daniel Jeremiah, a former three time
(03:31):
scout on the NFL Network, has been a very interesting point.
Jeremiah is really good at what he does. He was
quoted as saying that the one quarterback that he thought
was similar to Shador Sanders was Kenny Pickett. And what
Daniel Jeremiah said, well, they did Kenny Pickett, and they
got burned. And they may have looked at it and said, yeah,
(03:52):
we've done that kind of quarterback before. Not a big
arm moves, Okay, okay, decent numbers. We got pass on that,
and Pittsburgh did. Remember, Shador Sanders also said this words matter.
People listen. He said this at the NFL combine. Shadeur said, quote,
if you ain't trying to change the franchise the culture,
(04:13):
don't get me. Teams listened. They didn't get him. So
the league sent out a very clear message. Cam Ward
was indisputably the best prospect and maybe close to an
A prospect, but everybody else was a B.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
In a C prospect.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
And in life, if you're not an A, then you
have to get the intangibles right right, you're intangibles. For
Dak Prescott, Dack's never thrown an A ball, but he
was an A plus plus with intangibles. That brought Purty
small not a great app A plus plus with intangibles.
(04:51):
People are telling you they didn't like some of Shador's intangibles. Remember,
March in April. NFL doesn't know you anything. March in April.
Our job is interview months and in February and early March,
Dad Dion was saying will set terms. There are teams
he won't play for. So I don't think this is
all on shuduor but you know, somebody made a point
(05:14):
this morning in our staff meeting. It's almost like you're
a young actor and you'd only ever been in your
dad's movies, and then you interviewed with some other directors
to finally not be in one of your dad's movies,
and you kind of lack self awareness and turn some
people off. So when I hear he's sand bagged interviews
(05:36):
or was not a professional from people I trust, that
goes a long way and explaining it. And I believe
I said this years ago about backup quarterbacks. I said
this more than once. A perfect backup quarterback is a
guy that could go to the local mall, put sunglasses
in a baseball hat on walk through the mall and
nobody would bother him, nobody would recognize him. Your starting
(05:56):
quarterback in the NFL is going to be a star,
right All starting quarterbacks in their towns are stars. A
backup nobody wants a celebrity, and so that's the downside.
I don't blame only shoulder. But when you hear he's
sandbag interviews, that's what Dad did. Dion sandbag interviews legendarily
(06:18):
sandbagged interviews. Bragged about sandbagging interviews. But Dion was an
a plus plus plus prospect, the best corner of all time.
Everybody knew going into this draft that Shure wasn't a
great arm guy. I would have drafted him, not a
mobile guy. I would have drafted him. I was shocked
by it, and I was told be very if he
doesn't go in the first six to eight picks in
the top of the second round. People are telling you
(06:39):
they see him as a backup. Peter Schrager used to
work here, now works at ESPN also brought up an
interesting point. Dion has worked for so many media outlets
and has so many friends in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
You know, nobody wanted to give him the truth.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Your son's okay, And then once the noise, noise scares
a lot of teams, especially at one bosition. The discussions
are always different about quarterbacks than non quarterbacks. When I
talked to NFL people, we always talk about toughness. We
talk about productivity and speed and vertical When you talk
about quarterbacks. It's leadership. Will guys follow them over a hill?
(07:14):
Is he a foxhole guy? The conversation changes, so, and
I got a lot of different thoughts on this. We're
actually defend shad Or on something that I thought he
did a really good job on. But Cleveland drafted him.
There are those that believed that the GM and the
coach didn't want to draft him, they'd already drafted a quarterback,
and Jimmy Haslam, the owner, stepped in like he did
with Deshaun Watson. Needless, regardless, here's Andrew Berry on the pick.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Once it got to a point where it felt like
it was at, you know, a pretty steep discount, we
just felt like, hey, especially relative to the alternative ways
that we could use the selection, this made the most sense.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
All right, More on that in a bit.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Their reaction was stoic, to be honest, not the most
excited looking draft room, to be honest. Okay, so the
Kers are in big trouble. They pushed all their chips
in against Minnesota. For the first time an NBA playoff history,
a team played only five players in an entire half.
They never subbed. They called the death lineup and eventually
(08:13):
it was for them. Meanwhile, Minnesota a deeper, bigger roster
with far more dexterity, far more options. The Lakers, JJ
Reddick basically told you our roster has limitations. There's an
old thing in the NBA in the playoffs that you
play eight guys, but you trust seven. JJ Reddick played
five guys and trusted four, and they almost pulled it off.
(08:37):
But did you notice that Lebron looked tired by the end.
He didn't score in the fourth quarter, and Luca looked
tired at the end, never been in the world's best shape.
And here was Aunt Edwards once again. If you go
look at fourth quarter numbers in this series, Luca against
(08:58):
Aunt Edwards, Minnesota Timberwolves, without question, points, assists, rebounding, field
goal percentage. The best player in the fourth quarter in
this series has consistently been Aunt Edwards. That's how you
win a playoffs series and quickly maturing, quickly defining basketball player.
(09:20):
So the t Wolves are deeper and Edwards is the
best player. But I think more than anything, remember when
the Lakers made that trade, the Luca thing and Mark
Williams a center. Remember that whole deal Mark Williams they
were going to get a Mark Williams, the center who'd
been injured, but he was a definitive NBA big, big,
wide body shot blocker, and then it got canceled because
(09:42):
team doctors wouldn't give it a pass. In LA, well,
JJ Reddick was telling you, yeah, I wasn't part of
that decision because he won't play Jackson Hayes. And you're
not beating Minnesota without some bigs. I mean, Julius Randall,
who's never been good in the playoffs, is having a
tremendous series on three pointers. And so why Randall's a big,
He's getting good looks. And so you know, JJ Reddick's
(10:04):
telling you this roster needs tweaking. I'm playing five, I
may play I may trust four. And here was JJ after.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
We've certainly played well enough to win, and we gave
the effort to win, and you know, the not a
planned thing to play five guys in the entire second half.
We asked him at the beginning of the fourth quarter,
told them we had two extra timeouts. You know, if
you need to sub let us know. Those guys gave
gave a lot. I think once you've kind of made
(10:35):
that decision and you know, and that they all are
in you just got to trust them.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Aunt Edwards led the NBA this year in clutch regular
season points. Minnesota as a basketball team was in all
sorts of games like this. They led the NBA in
clutch games, meaning close, tight, hard fought games. That's what
the te Wolves did all regular season. They were built
(11:04):
for it. In Aunt Edwards, whose three point shot improved dramatically.
He was built for it. They now have a three
to one series lead. They'll be well rested. Will the
Lakers will be as well. The next game is Wednesday,
and here's Ant.
Speaker 5 (11:19):
I'm just trying to take advantage of every opportunity. I mean,
because you know, I've been dreaming of this all my life,
whether it was football or basketball.
Speaker 6 (11:28):
So just being in these situations.
Speaker 5 (11:30):
And now it's going against Brunn and Luca, and Luca
probably the best player in the game, young player in
the game, and Brun is the best player leaving the game.
So just trying to, you know, prove I belong and
to all my haters and people who criticize me, that
I'm better than they think.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Ant is officially the best young player in the game.
Did you see him battling Lebron. He's like I got Lebron.
Did you see that wrestling match? You're not getting that
from Luke on the defensive end. Offense runs the league.
I'm not denying that, but look at Ant's fourth quarter numbers.
His energy is through the roof. Not just his points,
(12:09):
but his field goal percentage. Look at Luca's field goal percentage.
Guys get tired. Shots are flat. So if you want
one of the things that made Jordan, we only showed
Jordan's offensive highlights. What made Michael Jordan great was his
relentless defense along with his relentless offense and clutch play
(12:30):
in the fourth core Michael's energy. You could go to
quadruple overtime. Michael's energy, even when he was sick the
Utah games was just better than other players. Look at
Ant's fourth quarters. That is young inimpeccable shape. Because Ant
previously first couple of years he would wear down Layton games.
(12:51):
He does it anymore. He picks his spots. He is
putting up forty two percent three point in the fourth
and you're pett in your defender on him.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
So he has arrived.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
He has got the argument to me as the best
young player in the game. Rocket is giving every home
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Speaker 2 (13:24):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
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Speaker 1 (13:33):
All right, Colin Wright, Colin wrong on a Monday, Here
we go.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Where Colin was right, Aunt.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Edwards continues to be the best young player in the game.
And I said this last week not a GM in
this league would take Jahn Morant over Aunt Edwards.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Jaw got swept.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Okay, Ann Edwards is dominating fourth quarters, and three years
ago Ja Morant was the better player. Clearly, that is
not close to the case. Aunt takes on the wrong
and can play a rigorous, strong, physical, intimidating defensive game.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Jaw can't.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
You are looking at in my opinion, that the best
domestic player in the league right now at his age,
certainly Aunt Edwards.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Where Colin was wrong, I.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Thought Shador Sanders was the second best quarterback I washed
in college football to cam Ward and listen, he fell out.
There's a lot of explanations for it. To complete seventy
four percent of your throws behind a terrible offensive line
is impressive, but there's enough bad tape out there with
him that it didn't blow people away. I do think
he will win the starting job at some point next year.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
And don't listen to Jmac. That is a tasty.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Bat take Shadur to eventually start for the Cleveland Browns.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
I was wrong.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
I would have taken him if I was Pittsburgh. I
don't know what Pittsburgh's thinking. Must already have Aaron Rodgers
where Colin was right. You know, I don't like to
pick on kids, but I was never a Quinn fan.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
I didn't get it.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
One year ago, people said he could be the first
quarterback taken.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
I didn't buy it. I never had.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
I know he's a five star high school quarterback. I
know he won a bunch of games with Texas. I
don't see it he was the thirteenth quarterback taken.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
I just he had.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Great protection and unbelievable wide receivers at Texas and made
some incredibly big throws. But I never watched him during
college football and thought that's a franchise quarterback, and he
ended up being the thirteenth quarterback taken.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Where Colin was raw.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
I thought the Chicago Bears were gonna go heavy defense
in the draft because they've spent so much money on offense.
They said, nope, tight end, wide receiver, offensive tackle with
their first three picks. I liked the picks, but I mean,
they have so much talent on offense. Colston Lovelin one
of my favorite players. No excuses for Caleb Williams. Ben
(15:52):
Johnson is clearly running the draft room because they are
going free agency and drafting, their best picks and pickups
are offense.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Where Colin was right, I said for the.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Last month, I think the Raiders are the perfect pick
for Ashton genty because Geno Smith, historically, when he has
a run game and can throw on play action, is
actually a really good quarterback. You go look to his
career on play action is one hundred and six passer rating.
So now they've got their quarterback in Gino, a star
(16:24):
tight end, a star running back, Colton Miller, a left tackle,
and they went and picked up some running, some wide receivers.
They also have Chip Kelly and Pete Carroll. I don't
know how the Raiders are going to do, but I
thought this was the perfect pick. I loved everything. And
at five to eight people say he's small. It is
hard to get leverage on five eight running backs. Nobody
(16:45):
bounces off more college defenders than Ashton Genty. Where Colin
was raw, Boy did I miss on the Lakers series.
I had the Lakers in five because I thought they
were better offensively, but JJ Reddick has made it very
clear he doesn't trust Jack and Hayes. Translation, we're gonna
play small ball, and Minnesota's dominating the boards. They're more physical,
(17:08):
They've got more rotational options. The Lakers are playing five dudes,
and Luca looked tired at the end. Lebron was tired
at the end, and the Lakers have been outscored by
six or more in every fourth quarter, and a lot
of that is Minnesota is fresher.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Where Colin was right.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
I thought the Pacers were gonna fly through the Bucks.
The Dame injury stinks, but I just think Indiana's got
more good players in their prime. I think Indiana's got
the best talent in the league that nobody talks about.
I really like the Pacers, and I don't like the Bucks,
and I've said this for three years. They're too Yana's centric,
and the big problem is that's okay. The nuggetsri Joki centric,
(17:48):
but I trust Jokic at the free throw line rate late.
I do not trust Yanis at the free throw line
late so much like Shack. You didn't want him at
the line even though he was dominant. So for me,
it's time to blow up this roster. Where Colin was wrong.
I had been told that a wide receiver T Mac
from Arizona. A lot of people had cooled on him,
(18:10):
but it only takes one, and Carolina drafted him with
the eighth pick. I thought some of the draft analysis
on him was interesting. People theorized that Bryce Young is
a smaller quarterback and therefore the long and lanky T
Mac is easier to see. Never thought about that. Probably true,
(18:31):
but yeah, it takes one. I'd heard teams that cooled
on him. Did he love football? Where can you use him?
He's kind of a strider, doesn't get off the.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Line good enough. I was wrong. Be sure to catch
live editions of The Herd weekdays at noon Easter nin
am Pacific.
Speaker 7 (18:48):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David, and together we're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You could catch
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Why should you listen to Covino and Rich. We talk
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We have a lot of fun talking about the stories
(19:08):
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(19:29):
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Speaker 2 (19:42):
That's Covino and.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Rich uh, and it was too many amazing that Shador
Sanders fell on the draft with that. One of my
favorite people at Fox, Greg Olsen, fourteen years in the NFL,
is now joining US Live. You know, I heard it
was funny after Friday show greg Or the second round.
But after my show I called an executive in the
league and he said to me, he goes watch the
(20:06):
next six picks and the first six picks in the
second round, and he says, if those first six picks
in the second round, if they don't take Shadu or
what the league is telling you is we see him
as a backup now and backup quarterback, as Albert Breer
said today, we want it to be like mixed in
(20:27):
with the furniture. Like backup quarterback is a guy that
can go into a local mall with sunglasses and nobody
recognizes them, not Cam Newton or Tim Tebow. So were
you shocked once he didn't go in the first were
you shocked.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
To be fell?
Speaker 8 (20:42):
I think that's the name of the game, right, So
there's an inverse relationship in the NFL. So we'll just
start just generally speaking with most roster players, not just
the quarterback. There's an inverse ratio between the more you
bring with you, the more I don't want to call
it distraction, because sometimes it's a real net positive, right,
call it attention. The more attention you bring upon yourself,
(21:03):
the more attention you go out and seek, the more
the teams will tolerate more of it, the better a
player you are. Right, So there's like this inverse relationship
between those two elements. Now you add into the fact
that it's the quarterback, right, the league has shown us,
and there's a million examples the league has shown us
they want guys that don't there's no extra there's no concerns,
(21:26):
there's no where's his head at, where's his attention lying?
What are his priorities? And again I don't know Shidor
that well. Obviously Dion and we all know his background.
But I think as the draft gets later and later,
the element was is the guy good enough to play
in the NFL? Yes? Is he a top tier talent
where we're willing to then also take maybe everything else
(21:48):
that comes with it. And I think a lot of
it's harmless. I think a lot of it's attention seeking.
I think it's an environment that we've created in college,
where you know, there's a lot more that comes with
playing quarterback nowadays in college than it was when I
was in college.
Speaker 9 (22:01):
So I think that we've.
Speaker 8 (22:02):
Almost created that as a system and as a society,
and now teams have to make a decision if that
guy's not going to be my all pro quarterback, do
I want to put up with it?
Speaker 9 (22:11):
And I think that's.
Speaker 8 (22:12):
Really the test that we saw play out over the
course of the draft. And listen, could he end up
being a steal there in the fifth round?
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Yes?
Speaker 8 (22:20):
Has he shown at two different spots in colleges that
he could go to teams that didn't necessarily have a
great tradition of winning and turn the program around and
bring attention and energy and buzz. Absolutely, he did it twice.
So I'm not throwing him yet. I'm not throwing him
to the Wolves and saying he has no career, but
I think he needs to take a good, hard reset
and say, you know what it's all about ball. It's
(22:42):
all about me giving myself to have a chance to
have a career in this league. And if it's as
a backup and then I worked to a starter, whatever
that path is. But the league I think has shown,
and the message was pretty clear. You better be really,
really talented, especially at quarterback, if we're going to put
up with a lot of other attention, a lot of
other things.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
So you're a former Miami Hurricane. Cam Ward was a
zero star recruit. I watched him at Washington State. I thought, oh,
that's fun, but he's not an NFL guy. Then he
goes to Miami and I'm like, okay, that works. You
watch a lot of Hurricane football. Did you when you
were watching him this year, did you think, oh, that's
the number one pick in the draft? I mean, did
you see it immediately?
Speaker 3 (23:27):
You know?
Speaker 9 (23:27):
So it's kind of funny.
Speaker 8 (23:29):
I think cam Ward is such a great example, especially
in this like college football landscape, where the zero star
guy multiple colleges, three stops later, one year at Miami
and he's the number one overall pick and he couldn't
buy a scholarship at high school. And then all the
kids making ten you know, ten million dollar nil deals
that are five stars are now on their fifth school.
(23:50):
They've all trended downward, and they're all fighting, not all,
but many of them are fighting for their lives. I
think it's a great reminder for everybody out there that
although the system is what it is, it's by no
means indicative of what your future is. On top of that,
to answer your question, I had dinner with Mario Chris
Bos tomorrow. Chris Ball and the head football coach at Miami.
He was my tight end coach in Miami. I've known
(24:11):
him since I was sixteen. He recruited me when I
was a sophomore in high school when he was at
Rutgers with Greg Ciano.
Speaker 9 (24:16):
We go way back.
Speaker 8 (24:17):
And I had dinner with him after spring ball, before
summer camp, before last season, and he said, Greg, we've
had a lot of like dogs and this you know,
the Sean Taylors and the Antrell Roles and the you know,
Edger and James, and we've had some really big time
personalities that have taken charge of a locker room. Here,
he goes, In all my years at Miami, I'm not
(24:37):
sure if we've had a guy like cam Ward who
from day one changed everything about who we were, our identity,
how we practice, how we met. He goes, wait till
you see this kid. This year, I went to the
opening game down at the Swamp in person on the
sideline and watched him his first ever start a Miami
against Florida, and I came away and I don't know
if I would have said he's the number one overall
(24:58):
pick right.
Speaker 9 (24:59):
The footwork's a little awkward, he throws off plane.
Speaker 8 (25:02):
I wouldn't say it's how you would necessarily teach a
young kid to play. It's a little more mahomes ish
as far as a little unconventional, but special. But his
season is pretty remarkable when he did at Miami, the
culture and energy besides just the player.
Speaker 9 (25:17):
To a man at Miami.
Speaker 8 (25:19):
When you said, who is the most impactful player in
that locker room in the last five ten years, it's
Cam Warden.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Yeah, that's a great straight So he looks as a
great kid.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Explain to me, I would put Travis Hunter on offense,
and I'd want him in the offensive meeting rooms. But
he's too good. If there's a show, hey thing here,
probably too good not to play on defense. Explain to me,
install day, how does that work?
Speaker 2 (25:47):
What meeting is he in?
Speaker 1 (25:50):
All? Right?
Speaker 8 (25:51):
So if I was the coach, right, I have the
magic wand and I'm in charge, I'm putting him to
start in mostly defensive back meetings. I think playing wide
receiver young in the NFL is a little bit easier,
especially when you consider how talented he is physically. It's
a little bit easier to build offensive packages for a
(26:11):
wide receiver and start those out. You know, he might
have ten to fifteen calls in any game plan going
into any week than it is to do the opposite,
To spend all of your time on offense and then
we're going to build out a defensive coverage plan.
Speaker 9 (26:24):
It doesn't really work like that.
Speaker 8 (26:25):
Playing corner, especially young in the NFL is incredibly difficult.
They're hard to find. They don't grow on trees. There
just are more wide receivers in all shapes and sizes
that can run, catch, athletic, and create problems with the
ball in their hands.
Speaker 9 (26:41):
So I agree you got to use them on both.
Speaker 8 (26:43):
I would emphasize early teaching him how to be an
all pro corner and then he can learn and then offense,
there's packages, there's reversus screens. Teach him a handful of
the route tree, teach him the offense, and you can
slow play and almost protect him as an offense of
play caller because we can tell him exactly what your
(27:04):
role is here. Are the plays to be prepared for.
On defense, you're at corner. We've got to be able
to play man zone, too high, single high zone. We've
got to be able to play fire blit zones. The
other team could come out in two backs. They can
come out and spread. You could play to the boundary,
you could play to the field.
Speaker 9 (27:19):
Defense.
Speaker 8 (27:20):
There's a lot more on your plate because you're reacting
to what the offense can do. Offensive play caller, I
can control what I expose him to, especially early, not
overwhelm him, control that side of the ball.
Speaker 9 (27:32):
So that's how I would handle him.
Speaker 8 (27:35):
I just think defensive back in the NFL nowadays, with
the passing of the league and the way the league
is going, you just can't find enough of those guys,
and when you find a special one, he needs to
play defense.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
So your career at the end was with Pete Carroll.
One of the few draft picks that I felt was
kind of obvious. I didn't hit on many of them,
but I thought Ashton gent Gino Smith is actually a
a pretty darn good quarterback. When he throws on play action,
when you force him to throw on third and eleven,
you know that's the Mahomes, Josh Allen where they can
(28:08):
make it work. You know Pete, you know how he
views the running game. Talk a little bit that about
that with Jent, who's dynamic, but you can also get
short yardage with because he's so strong.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Yeah, I'm with you.
Speaker 8 (28:23):
I think of all the drafts there in the top ten,
call it that one made the most sense. Like that
just felt that's his Marshawn, that's his that's his bell cow,
that's his guy. That is the identity of Pete. Play
great defense, control to run, play action. He went out
and got brought Gino with him. Gino understands what Pete
wants to be, understands the offense he wants to implement,
(28:44):
and then new factor. And he's got two young tight ends.
I would argue brock Bowers, he very well could be
the best young tight end to come out of college
in the last ten years. Like I think he's that special.
I thought he was that good when he was at Georgia.
So two young tight ends with mayor from Notre Dame
from the previous year that Rockbert Bowers going into a
second second year continue to invest in an offensive line
(29:07):
now a bellcout quarterback, running back, get under center with
Gino play action on early downs. You're right, the guys
that make sixty five seventy million dollars, those guys are
good on first and second down, and they're good on
third and fifteen when everyone in the building knows it's
a pass. That's why there's Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes
and Joe Burrow, etc. The vast majority of the league.
(29:28):
And this is not a knock the vast majority of
the league. The formula is, you want to throw play
action downs on first and second down, and you do
not want to be and must pass downs. That is
the formula on ninety percent of NFL rosters until you
have the elite of the elite and every down is
a passing down. But there's only a couple of those guys,
So I think the formula works. He has showed that
(29:49):
it's worked for a long time. He's got the quarterback
that can do it. He's got it back now, he's
got the tight ends. Continue to invest in the offensive line,
and all of a sudden, this looks like what a
Pete Carroll offense wants to be.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Finally, you played with Cam Newton a spectacularly gifted athlete
who was also a good pocket guy when he wanted
to be. You also played in Chicago and you were
a big part of Cam's career the tight end. Okay,
so now the Bears, with a spectacularly talented quarterback in Chicago,
say we're going to get another tight end. So I
(30:22):
think that you could say, boy, Colston Lovelin went high.
They just got Romadonze, they had Cole Comet. But there
is to talk about why tight end is so crucial
for everybody but really athletic quarterbacks. And I mean, you
were Cam's guy, and I don't know, I just look
at Caleb and Colston and I think that's going to work.
(30:45):
And I loved the pick. Or is it just this
that tight ends mean more to young quarterbacks?
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Is that it?
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Well?
Speaker 8 (30:53):
I definitely think tight ends mean a lot to young quarterbacks.
I think that's been proving. There's a lot of examples throughout.
Speaker 9 (30:57):
But I also just think tight ends bring a lot
of value in.
Speaker 8 (31:00):
Today's style the way that these offensive coordinators you look
obviously Ben Johnson, now the style in which these offensive
play callers want to operate, the tight end is a
huge role in that because, again, like we said, if
you want to get under center, and you want to
get into early play action on run fifty to fifty downs,
and you want to be able to keep the defense
in single high coverages for all your crossers and your
(31:22):
layers and all your deep shots, you can't be in
a let You can't be in ten personnel right. You
can't have four wide receiver types and one back in
the back right. So you got to have somebody that
can keep you honest in the why position, the tight
end position. He could be an off ball player, he's
an on ball player. There's a lot of ways to
do it, but there needs to be some form of
threat on first and second down that you're not just
(31:44):
in past personnel in shotgun the entire game. We've seen
that that approach across the league is very difficult. So
now you bring in Ben Johnson, Caleb Williams. Now you
have Cole commeet who you mentioned Rome Denze from last year.
Don't forget they got DJ Moore from the from the
Bryce Young trade, you know, a couple of years ago.
Now you add in you know, so all of a sudden,
(32:06):
now they've invested multiple offensive linemen they're saying, we need
our number one overall pick to succeed. We got him
the coach, we've got him, the line, we've got him
the skill players. Now we'll worry about going back and
worrying about building up the defense. But remember offensive coaches, Colin,
if you're good on offense and the defense struggles, you
can always find a new defensive coordinator.
Speaker 9 (32:27):
That's the format we see that.
Speaker 8 (32:29):
I hate to say it, but when they were struggling
in Philadelphia and they couldn't get the defense right following
Jonathan Gannon, all of a sudden a year later, who's available,
Vic Fangio. Yeah, all of a sudden in the Cincinnati
they've got the greatest offense in the league, offensive minded coach,
and Zach Robinson and.
Speaker 9 (32:47):
Zach Taylor, Zach Taylor. And what do they do.
Speaker 8 (32:51):
They get rid of a defensive coordinator who was up
to be a head coach just a year or two before.
So that's the formula. Get your young quarterbacks settled, get
your new offensive minded head coach, Ben Johnson, get him
going on offense, and then we have time to finish
up complimenting the defense. That's the NFL formula. And I
think the Bears have four to five wins built into
(33:12):
this just by getting organized offensively. With Ben Johnson in company,
I think there's a four game elevation within that roster
just by getting organized offensively.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Greg Olsen, you do great work, my friend, as well
as I appreciate you stopping by.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and newon Easter nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
So there we'll get to Greg co sel in a
couple of minutes. Eli Manning is putting a bid together
for a minority interest in the Giants, So I know, Eli,
I really like this idea. Since Eli Manning moved out
of his prime, the New York Giants have been They've
made so many bad decisions. Nick, I like Brian Dabole.
(33:59):
Finally they have a coach I like, and he better winner.
He's gone by Thanksgiving. But they've made so many bad
decisions head coaches, quarterbacks, general managers.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
That's upstairs stuff.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Ask yourself this, when's the last time the Hunt family
with the Chiefs butchered a free agent quarterback signing or
missed on a first round quarterback signing draft.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
It just doesn't happen very often.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Since twenty seventeen, the Giants are last in wins and
thirty first in point differential and points per game and
sack differential. It's a bad franchise that's upstairs. Stop blaming
the coaches, Stop blaming the players. That's upstairs. Like if
you look at consistently, it's not a coincidence that Washington
(34:46):
ran out the worst owner in the league and triple
their win total. It's not just Jayden Daniels. Jaden doesn't
do it. Without the right coordinator, the right general manager,
the right culture. Jaden would not have done that. The
previous group. They just kept getting in their way. And
I'll say this, you can trust Eli, and I know
(35:06):
I'll give you an example of why I like the
Manning family. Arch Manning goes to Texas. So Texas is
a massive football brand like Ohio State, Michigan, Notre Dame,
Texas big Arch Manning doesn't get a start first year,
second year, And by the way, I think he's better
than quin yours. I think if he would have been
(35:28):
in the draft this year without starting in college, somebody
would have taken him in the second round. I really
believe that this quarterback draft, somebody would have taken arch
Manning second and said we're gonna go with jeans. Archie
was good, Eli was good, Peyton, We're just gonna go
with jeans.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
And yet he didn't transfer. He's been a team player.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
It's so Manning like dignity, thoughtful class New York Giants.
They got an upstairs problem. I said, the Chicago Bears
finally with Ben Johnson like control the draft Chicago for years.
Detroit before Dan Campbell and their new GM and executive suite,
(36:06):
Detroit had an upstairs problem.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
They didn't have a quarterback problem. That Stafford was great.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
So we always look in this sport whenever a team loses,
it's the coach. No, Washington had an upstairs problem. The
Giants do. That doesn't mean the Mars are totally inept,
but they need a fresh set.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Of eyes and ears.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
And the Mannings they make really good decisions, football decisions,
parenting decisions, business decisions. They just make really good decisions.
With that forty five years NFL films, Greg Coseller is
joining us, So let's just talk football, for get all
the other nonsense. If Pittsburgh, so the Rams, my understanding
(36:49):
didn't really Shador was not on their board as a starter.
They liked Jackson Dart New York Giants liked Jackson Dart
over Shador. There's nothing wrong with that. I had a
friend of mine who's a former GM. He liked Jackson
Dard a lot, not as much as cam Ward, but
he liked him more than should do. He liked him
a lot. So, and I think everybody thinks cam was
the best quarterback in a week class.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Pittsburgh Steelers.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
According to the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, a reporter there, we're
not in the starting quarterback hunt. They looked at next year.
I'm told the Rams looked at next year. The Browns
trading down early, told you next year's class, we'll go
get backups this year. So if I was a GM
and I wasn't into Shadors playing, what on film did
(37:37):
you watch that you believe Greg could turn a general
manager off and just not see him as an elite
quarterback prospect.
Speaker 10 (37:46):
Well, I think that that I think relates to what
the league has become Colin for starting quality starting quarterbacks.
We're talking about guys that would top five quarterbacks in
the league. Because if you're drafting Sanders high, that's what
you're expecting him to be a top five quarterback in
the league. So what you're dealing with is a player
who's essentially a pocket quarterback. If he's to become a
(38:08):
really good quarterback in the NFL, at his core, he's
a pocket player. Now he's not immobile, it's not as
if he's a statue, but at his core he would
have to be successful as a pocket player, and as
a pocket quarterback.
Speaker 6 (38:20):
His traits are good, not great.
Speaker 10 (38:23):
So where does that kind of player get drafted in
the NFL and what does he become in the NFL.
He's a pocket quarterback with good traits, he's a lower
level CJ.
Speaker 6 (38:34):
Stroud. CJ.
Speaker 10 (38:35):
Stroud, essentially a pocket quarterback, is bigger, he's a better thrower.
Speaker 6 (38:40):
So CJ.
Speaker 10 (38:41):
Stroud, who's drafted second and has done well in his
first two years. Sanders is a similar style quarterback in
terms of his approach to the way in which he plays,
but he's not as gifted. He's smaller and doesn't throw
it as well. So where does that player get drafted?
That's why he was all over the board, just as
a player putting everything else aside. I had coaches tell
(39:04):
me that they thought he was a backup. I had
coaches tell me he was a first round pick. I
had coaches telling me he's a third round pick. So
he was all over the board because his traits are
not quite at the level where it's unanimous or obvious
as to what he projects to be at the NFL level.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
So again, let's keep it to football.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
If you were to draft Jackson Dart over him, because
I know two people that preferred Jackson Dart, what did
you see about Jackson Dart that a GM would go, Oh,
I like that, that's better than Shador.
Speaker 10 (39:35):
Well, that gets into the same question. I think you
have the mobility factor. I think Jackson Dart, while he's
not explosive and dynamic, Jackson Dart, his legs are a factor.
So now you get into the fact that he can
make plays on third down with his legs, and that
changes the way defenses have to play. See, the thing
is you have to think about now the NFL. We're
(39:56):
not just doing this in a vacuum. We're projecting players,
and you see him right here. We're projecting players to
play in the NFL, and what that means so the
fact that he can beat you with his legs means
that that changes at times in critical down in distant situations,
the way defenses have to play.
Speaker 6 (40:12):
His arm is.
Speaker 10 (40:13):
Probably as good or maybe even a little better than Sanders,
and he has that mobility and that's a key key factor.
So Jackson Dart could easily be seen and he was
by some teams just the football part, as a better
prospect than your Dor Sanders.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
So it's interesting, I thought the Bears because the last
two years in free agents, I know, I.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Said, Greg, they're going to go defense. They didn't.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
They went offense again. I mean last year they did
it draft and free agency. This year they did it
free agency and draft. So Ben Johnson saying, listen, I'm
going to clean up my side of the ball. We'll
get the defense later. So they go Colston Loveland, Luther Burden,
who's a really could be a very interesting pover, and
(41:02):
Matt Hasselbeck, by the way, likes what did you make too? Yeah,
what did you make of those first three picks? And
how they'll help Caleb Williams.
Speaker 6 (41:11):
Well, they're going to play a lot of twelve personnel.
Speaker 10 (41:14):
You know, a lot of people thought they'd take Tyler Warren,
but Tyler Warren is a redundancy for them because Cole
Kamet stylistically is the same kind of player. We could
say Warren's better, but stylistically, in the context of their offense,
they're the same player. So they went with the more athletic,
a tight end in Lovelin, who gives them more so
they'll play with twelve personnel at the times and they'll
(41:36):
be really difficult.
Speaker 6 (41:37):
And then Luthor Burden.
Speaker 10 (41:38):
I mean, I loved Luthor Burton's tape and I think
Luth the Burden in the context of a Ben Johnson offense.
And I'm not going to sit here and say he's
going to do exactly what Alman ros Saint Brown did
because you never know, but I think that he stylistically
fits that.
Speaker 6 (41:53):
Role in a Ben Johnson offense.
Speaker 10 (41:55):
And I think you know with Burden, now they can
line up in twelve personnel with two tight ends, the
lineup in eleven perconnel with.
Speaker 6 (42:01):
A Douneesay Moore and Burden.
Speaker 10 (42:04):
I mean, this is a really, really good offense in
terms of the skill players. And Trapillo didn't surprise me
at all that he went where he did. I studied
his tape. He's a really good player. He played right
tackle at BC. They're going to have to make a
decision as to whom becomes the left tackle, whether they
can move Trpillo there, who's played that in college, or
(42:24):
Darnell Wright, who's been their right tackle. But Trapillo is
a really, really good prospect. So I love what they
did on the offensive side of the ball.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
So it was pretty obvious.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
There were certain teams, and I think the Chargers are
one where I had had dinner with their offensive coordinator
a couple of days a week before the draft actually,
and he said, listen, we have a really good football team.
We need a little bit more juice on offense. Well,
they went and got it with Trey Harris and Hampton.
Let's talk about the Chargers. Let's talk about Hampton, the
(42:53):
running back in Trey Harris. What does that provide that
they didn't have last year?
Speaker 6 (43:00):
Well, I love Murray and Hampton. I loved his tape.
Speaker 10 (43:03):
I didn't think there was much of a difference at
all between Hampton and Genty. To me, Hampton just looked
like a feature foundation back on tape. Some people thought,
and I could see that that they were similarities to
Jonathan Taylor stylistically, and he is clearly the kind of
back that you could give the ball twenty times a
game too. We know it's Greg Roman. We know they
(43:23):
want to run the football, you know, we know that's
the way they play. That's foundationally how they want to
start their offense. So now you get the play action
pass game off of that. And last year they had
pretty good success at times with the play action pass game,
so now they can do more of it.
Speaker 6 (43:37):
Harris is an intriguing guy.
Speaker 10 (43:39):
I watched him last summer Colin from twenty twenty three
when he had a big year. This year, he got
hurt after seven games. I saw every game, every snap.
I kept going back and forth on him. He's I
just wasn't sure if he was a vertical dimension in
the league. He's long and he has stride length, but
he didn't run real well and I'm just really curious
as to what he will be. Little uncertain about him,
(44:01):
but I know a lot of people liked him. I
just kept going back and forth in my mind. I'm
very curious to see what he becomes in the National
Football League.
Speaker 6 (44:08):
But the Hampton pick I absolutely love.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
That so I was told that Seattle wants to play
Jalen Milroe in six or seven plays a game. Is
that they just think he's too athletic not to get
on the field. And I mean there, I mean there
were times with Lamar Jackson, you watched them his first year,
You're like, is he the best athlete on either team?
I mean, Michael Vick at the component Milroe is a
(44:32):
sensational athlete. Yeah, we know he can be a bit mechanical.
But what does he do from your film study that
you think immediately translates to production in the NFL?
Speaker 10 (44:44):
Now, Well, I think one of the things that's become
really big in this league, and you see it with
the Eagles, you certainly see it with Lamar is the
importance of the quarterback run game, the design quarterback runs
a in the red zone. And I think that's where
Milroe can be a factor. Don't forget that McDonald spent
(45:05):
a year or so with Baltimore, so he knows all
about the quarterback run game and the design of it
and how it can really break down and attack defenses.
And that's where I think Milroe can become a factor.
But I actually really like Seattle's draft as a whole colin.
They traded up to get they traded up to get
Nick Mnarie, and I'm sure all of us immediately thought
(45:26):
that's Kyle Hamilton and the Mike McDonald defense because they're
stylistically similar players. So their defense and maybe people are
sleeping on it, but what they've done defensively this offseason
and what they've built defensively, they could be one of
the best defensive teams in the NFL this year.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:44):
No, he was.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
The safety from South Carolina. I was told this by
a couple of people. He's kind of a can't miss.
He's just so ra so athletic. There are very few
guys that can't miss. And you know, you think, oh,
we'd go in the first round. But safety's a different position.
But he kind of feels like I can't miss in
the NFL. So I want to go back to Travis Hunter.
So you looked at him as a corner and you
(46:07):
look at him as a receiver. If I said to you, Greg,
he ended up being a pro bowler at one position.
If you had to guess based on your film story,
there was what he was good at both, but one
of them he becomes a pro bowler, which side would
you predict?
Speaker 10 (46:25):
I mean, he's you know, I think that early on
he would have a better chance of being a pro
bowler as a receiver.
Speaker 6 (46:33):
Than as a corner.
Speaker 10 (46:34):
Interesting because I think as a I think as a corner,
we know about the physical traits, but you watch his
tape and as a corner he doesn't really play with
any technique because he's never had to, and I think
in the NFL he'll have to. But I think the
larger question with Travis Hunter, and again I don't listen
to what everybody says Colin, so I don't know if
this has been talked about, but I think the larger
(46:56):
issue is not whether he can play one hundred and
fifteen or a hundred twenty snap game. Maybe he's just
that freak that can. But the issue is preparation during
the week. He can't be in the offensive and the
defensive meetings at the same time. And you know how coaches,
how anal coaches are about their meetings and their details
and their nuance, and you know, you just can't be
(47:18):
in both meetings.
Speaker 6 (47:18):
There's not enough hours in the day.
Speaker 10 (47:20):
So I'm very curious to see how that works because
you can't be part of both sides of the ball
in all the detail that's required.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
Yeah, finally, when you.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
Looked at Ashton Genty's tape, I imagine the Oregon game.
The Oregon game is one that you really zoned in on.
Because they have NFL players everywhere, it is harder to
make a gas are playing smaller schools. What is the
one The first time you looked at Ashton, Jenny was
now a Raider the first time you looked at his
tape and went, Okay, this is you know, it's Boise State.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
This is real.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
This is a real difference makeup. Was there something that
popped for you at tendency or a trick you had
seen before and went, yeah, that's McCaffrey or that's whoever.
Speaker 10 (48:04):
Well, contact balance, because you're going to get hit in
the NFL, you've got to run inside between the tackles.
You can't be a great back in the NFL by
just running on the perimeter.
Speaker 6 (48:15):
So he has this unique.
Speaker 10 (48:16):
Ability to absorb hits and keep going without really losing
any of his momentum.
Speaker 6 (48:22):
And that's a rare trait.
Speaker 10 (48:24):
So to me, his best trade is contact balance, and
that's something that is absolutely essential. Now he's got other
traits as well. I don't want to make it seem
like that's his only trade. Obviously he's a great, great prospect,
but I think the contact balance part is really really special.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
By the way, I want to add this, I watched
virtually every pick, and I know it didn't have a
lot of stars, but it's hard to convince me there
weren't a lot of good players. When Cody Simon or
file State linebacker went in the fourth, I thought he
was a really good player. I mean it was a
heart and soul of that defense. And Damian Martinez, who
(49:02):
watch play, Yeah that time, Greg, I can't believe it's
round running back. You didn't get it either.
Speaker 6 (49:09):
Yeah, No, that to me.
Speaker 10 (49:11):
And again, all I can tell you is how I
evaluate the players. I'm not one who too speaks about
whether teams did a good job or a bad job,
because they've got thirty people doing this and these guys
work really hard. But I really like Damian Martinez. I
watched him last summer when he was at Oregon State.
I watched him this year at the University of Miami.
I think this guy, in the right system could actually
(49:32):
be a feature back, and to be honest with you,
and we'll see how it plays out. We'll see how
it plays out in camp. But I personally think he's
a better runner. Now again, there may be other elements here,
but he's a better runner than Zach Charbonay. And you
know Zach Charboney right now is the number two back
in Seattle. So we'll see how it plays out through
OTA's mini camp and training camp. But I really like
(49:53):
Damian Martinez. I was really surprised he went in the
seventh round.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
Yeah, now, no, that jumped out to me. I said, Okay,
can tell me this isn't a great draft. That is
an NFL You think he's a feature back. All I
know is that guy I watched him in college. He
was five yards of carry, run over people run past him.
He was five yards of carry.
Speaker 6 (50:12):
And power translates. You know, That's the thing.
Speaker 10 (50:15):
There's a lot of great athletes in the NFL, as
we know Colin, but power is one thing at all
positions that normally translates, and he's a powerful runner.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
Greg Cosel forty five years NFL Films, Good seeing again,
smart stuff as allays Greg one.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
More heard the Herd streams twenty four hours a day,
seven days a week. Within the iHeartRadio app, Search Herd
to listen live or on demand whenever you like. Oh,
here we go.
Speaker 1 (50:44):
It is a Thursday, and a very different Thursday than
we predicted. The Lakers exit stage right, they are How did.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
Minnesota lose a game in this series? It's over? J
Mack Humble tiede.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
But you know what, we always bring Chris Finch on
the show the t Wolves coach during the season. I
think next time we call him he will be available
once again.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
I mean, that was impressive.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
Very very crazy, winding three games for the Lakers. Greg Okay,
here we go. Simplest explanation. Chris Finch and his staff worked,
JJ Reddick and his staff, and Minnesota's best players out
played the lakers best players.
Speaker 2 (51:38):
I mean Austin Reeves a no show.
Speaker 1 (51:40):
Lebron last couple of games looked tired and Luca's worst
qualities were exposed. There was a late sequence in this game,
with about two forty five left. It was a late
sequence where Julius Randall blew by Luca and scored. Okay,
so he blows Luca, it's right here, just blows by
(52:03):
him and scores. On the other end, Luca misses a
lap and then complains about it to the referee. And
while he's complaining, the tea Wolves in transition and scores
on the other end from a two point game to ballgame.
Luca daisical. And by the way, I'm not saying the
MAVs won the trade with the Lakers. But Nico Collison
(52:25):
slept very well last night, Harrison. Excuse me, Nico Harrison
slept very very well last night. Listen Lebron in the
fourth quarter of the last two games.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
You saw it.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
He was tired. He was gassed, two for nine from
the floor. And the Lakers in this series, in the
fourth quarter, they got worked. And that was about a
tired Lebron and a coaching staff in Minnesota that pulled
all the right levers. The Lakers in the fourth quarter
scored seventeen thirteen twenty nineteen sixteen. And JJ Reddick's insistence
(53:05):
got very stubborn, his insistence to play only five guys
the entire second half of Game four, which is bizarrely,
I mean, it's historically bizarre. That's the only thing I
can say. I'm not a coach, it's just historically. I've
never seen it. I've never thought it would be discussed.
(53:26):
This is a small ball team that was already outsized
the entire series and out rebounded the entire series.
Speaker 2 (53:33):
So you're the smaller or less physical team.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
And you're gonna play your guys the entire second half
and one of them is in his forties. Okay, And
JJ Reddick before the game got very defensive about this.
Speaker 11 (53:51):
Is there an assistant or someone maybe that you'll lean
on tonight maybe to try to get you know, some
other guys involved, if that opportunity to presents.
Speaker 4 (54:00):
Are you saying that because I'm inexperienced and that was
an inexperienced decision that I made. Do you think I
don't talk to my assistance about substitutions every single time out?
Speaker 6 (54:10):
No?
Speaker 11 (54:10):
I just think there's a lot of coaches lean on
their assistance in those situations, as.
Speaker 6 (54:14):
Do every single time.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
That's a weird assumption, bro, It's not the moment to
be the coolest, smartest guy in the room. You went
heavy small ball with the oldest star in the league.
You didn't sub him, and Lebron looked tired in Game
four of the end, and he looked tired last night,
plus Minnesota, which was already a bigger team, leaned into
(54:40):
their size. Rudy Gobert, a defensive player, might as well
have been Wilt Chamberlain last night. He was unstoppable. That's
on coaching. And by the way, JJ, what is Maxy
Kleeber doing on the floor late? This was a coaching mismatch.
Julius Randall and McDaniels Gobert. They all played the Lakers
(55:03):
players and the te Wolves own the fourth quarter. The
fourth quarter is not just the stars quarter, it's the
coaching quarter. This is not a complicated breakdown. Better coach,
better decisions, a more complete roster, and better fourth quarters.
I mean, Lebron wasn't terrible in the fourth. He was
clearly exhausted. Probably not going to play him in the
(55:28):
entire second half when you're already the smaller team. And
by the way, Chris Finch and his guys, his staff,
they were already bigger. They made an adjustment to make
Rudy Gobert the centerpiece last night, and you're playing late,
MAXI Kleeber, what are we doing here? So in the playoffs,
(55:48):
let's be honest about it. Their truth serum Austin Reeves,
y'all love him, but in the playoffs, when it's the
same teams playing the same guy night after night after night,
Austin Reeves moves into town. You're tired, you played last night?
He drops twenty two. Wow, he's undrafted, and Minnesota exposed him.
(56:12):
They set their drafted better athletes at Austin Reeves and
he didn't do anything. The playoffs are truth serum, and
the truth is this Laker roster is incomplete. JJ Reddick
made a bad decision in Game four and got defensive
about it, and the fourth quarters te Wolves players we're
(56:36):
better than the Laker stars. It's not a shot at
Lebron or even Luca, although can we now all be
honest about Luca's conditioning and defense. They're going after him regularly.
Here was Charles Barkley on J. J. Reddick's pushback, anger
and rigidity.
Speaker 12 (56:57):
He just is a little sensitive enough. And one of
the things that people say they never watched television. We
all lie, All jocks watched television.
Speaker 2 (57:06):
And he's been getting.
Speaker 12 (57:08):
Criticized the last for eight dollars for playing those guys
and he just sensitive just say, hey, you know what
if I had it nobody. Everybody's afraid to say I
was wrong. All he had to do was say, hey,
you know what, I shouldn't have played those guys the
whole second half, and that's it.
Speaker 2 (57:23):
Then it would have been over.
Speaker 1 (57:25):
We always consider in America football to be the coaches sport,
but you get into the playoffs and I watched this series.
And I'm not just saying this because I don't know
JJ Reddick, I know Chris Finch a little, but there
was one coaching staff pulling all the right levers on
this and Minnesota.
Speaker 2 (57:44):
I mean that was so.
Speaker 1 (57:45):
Obvious last night. Remember we talked about this yesterday. They
were six and a half point underdog. I'm like, are
the Laker players getting taller? Is Lebron getting younger?
Speaker 8 (57:53):
Like?
Speaker 1 (57:53):
They were bigger and they leaned in too Rudy Gobert.
So they clearly as a staff, said guys, we got
an edge here. Size doesn't get smaller fast. Guys can
get slower over a series, but size doesn't get smaller.
And they just went all in on Gobert and he
was unstoppable. Rudy Gobert, his entire career has been stoppable,
(58:19):
completely stoppable. Last night, he was unstoppable. I mean, Maxi
Kleeber playing guys in the entire second half. I'm sorry.
Coaching better players, better levers, pulled better roster
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
All right, it is Monday, after the draft and with
the NBA playoffs revving up. Look at those Tea Wolves,
Lakers in trouble and reeling.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
We are live. It's the Herd.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Wherever you may be and however you may be listening
one hour from now. Colin was right, Colin was wrong.
We have plenty of both well.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Jmack.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
It's funny. I have said this for a long time.
I've been saying this for about a decade. You never
get lied to more in our business than a month
before the NFL Draft.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I've said that one hundred times.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
You get so much misinformation fed to you, as mel
kiper a month before the NFL Draft. So a lot
of stories we start with us. As Shader Sanders was sliding.
Suddenly stories started to pop out from Justina Anderson, Todd
mcshae a Jonathan Jones, NFL insider for CBS. Stuff that
(01:27):
wasn't out there as much pre draft. I mean, we
knew that legendary draft room. We could see that was
a bit cringe. But when people were starting to explain,
well what happened, well, stories started coming out that he
sandbagged certain interviews or was brash. Bruce Feldman wrote an
article that I read he not only didn't compete at
(01:50):
the Senior Bowl or NFL scouting Combine, a former NFL
quarterback coach. Feldman spoke was Sunday morning, said not surprising.
The intel I was getting on Sanders was shocking. He
had no self awareness? So why did he drop? Am
I surprised?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Shocked?
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Actually I would have taken him if I was the Steelers.
But between his dad Dion, who has many friends in
the media, saying during the Super Bowl, on multiple interviews,
we will dictate terms, we will not play for certain teams,
and then between Sanders should do or sandbagging interviews, that
probably explains it.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
So I'll tell you after the show.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Friday, before Round two, I talked to two different times
an executive in the league asking questions, what do you
think of go he in. This executive said to me,
he said, if he doesn't go in the first six
to eight picks at the top of the second round,
then people view him as a backup. And I and
(02:48):
I'll quote it here, I'm not sure how many teams
want that circus in the building as a backup. Remember
Tim Tebow, celebrity backup a mess in New York. Bill
Belichick made a decision once Mac Jones beat him out
in New England.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Remember they let Cam go.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Nobody wants a celebrity backup quarterback, especially when Dion the
Dad waited until mid to late March to say, okay,
now anybody can draft my son. So now, was I surprised? Yes,
Pittsburgh didn't have a quarterback in a division with Joe
Burrow and Lamar Jackson. I mean, I don't know who
their quarterback is. But Daniel Jeremiah, a former three time
(03:31):
scout on the NFL Network, has been a very interesting point.
Jeremiah is really good at what he does. He was
quoted as saying that the one quarterback that he thought
was similar to Shador Sanders was Kenny Pickett. And what
Daniel Jeremiah said, well, they did Kenny Pickett, and they
got burned. And they may have looked at it and said, yeah,
(03:52):
we've done that kind of quarterback before. Not a big
arm moves, Okay, okay, decent numbers. We got pass on that,
and Pittsburgh did. Remember, Shador Sanders also said this words matter.
People listen. He said this at the NFL combine. Shadeur said, quote,
if you ain't trying to change the franchise the culture,
(04:13):
don't get me. Teams listened. They didn't get him. So
the league sent out a very clear message. Cam Ward
was indisputably the best prospect and maybe close to an
A prospect, but everybody else was a B.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
In a C prospect.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
And in life, if you're not an A, then you
have to get the intangibles right right, you're intangibles. For
Dak Prescott, Dack's never thrown an A ball, but he
was an A plus plus with intangibles. That brought Purty
small not a great app A plus plus with intangibles.
(04:51):
People are telling you they didn't like some of Shador's intangibles. Remember,
March in April. NFL doesn't know you anything. March in April.
Our job is interview months and in February and early March,
Dad Dion was saying will set terms. There are teams
he won't play for. So I don't think this is
all on shuduor but you know, somebody made a point
(05:14):
this morning in our staff meeting. It's almost like you're
a young actor and you'd only ever been in your
dad's movies, and then you interviewed with some other directors
to finally not be in one of your dad's movies,
and you kind of lack self awareness and turn some
people off. So when I hear he's sand bagged interviews
(05:36):
or was not a professional from people I trust, that
goes a long way and explaining it. And I believe
I said this years ago about backup quarterbacks. I said
this more than once. A perfect backup quarterback is a
guy that could go to the local mall, put sunglasses
in a baseball hat on walk through the mall and
nobody would bother him, nobody would recognize him. Your starting
(05:56):
quarterback in the NFL is going to be a star,
right All starting quarterbacks in their towns are stars. A
backup nobody wants a celebrity, and so that's the downside.
I don't blame only shoulder. But when you hear he's
sandbag interviews, that's what Dad did. Dion sandbag interviews legendarily
(06:18):
sandbagged interviews. Bragged about sandbagging interviews. But Dion was an
a plus plus plus prospect, the best corner of all time.
Everybody knew going into this draft that Shure wasn't a
great arm guy. I would have drafted him, not a
mobile guy. I would have drafted him. I was shocked
by it, and I was told be very if he
doesn't go in the first six to eight picks in
the top of the second round. People are telling you
(06:39):
they see him as a backup. Peter Schrager used to
work here, now works at ESPN also brought up an
interesting point. Dion has worked for so many media outlets
and has so many friends in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
You know, nobody wanted to give him the truth.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Your son's okay, And then once the noise, noise scares
a lot of teams, especially at one bosition. The discussions
are always different about quarterbacks than non quarterbacks. When I
talked to NFL people, we always talk about toughness. We
talk about productivity and speed and vertical When you talk
about quarterbacks. It's leadership. Will guys follow them over a hill?
(07:14):
Is he a foxhole guy? The conversation changes, so, and
I got a lot of different thoughts on this. We're
actually defend shad Or on something that I thought he
did a really good job on. But Cleveland drafted him.
There are those that believed that the GM and the
coach didn't want to draft him, they'd already drafted a quarterback,
and Jimmy Haslam, the owner, stepped in like he did
with Deshaun Watson. Needless, regardless, here's Andrew Berry on the pick.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Once it got to a point where it felt like
it was at, you know, a pretty steep discount, we
just felt like, hey, especially relative to the alternative ways
that we could use the selection, this made the most sense.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
All right, More on that in a bit.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Their reaction was stoic, to be honest, not the most
excited looking draft room, to be honest. Okay, so the
Kers are in big trouble. They pushed all their chips
in against Minnesota. For the first time an NBA playoff history,
a team played only five players in an entire half.
They never subbed. They called the death lineup and eventually
(08:13):
it was for them. Meanwhile, Minnesota a deeper, bigger roster
with far more dexterity, far more options. The Lakers, JJ
Reddick basically told you our roster has limitations. There's an
old thing in the NBA in the playoffs that you
play eight guys, but you trust seven. JJ Reddick played
five guys and trusted four, and they almost pulled it off.
(08:37):
But did you notice that Lebron looked tired by the end.
He didn't score in the fourth quarter, and Luca looked
tired at the end, never been in the world's best shape.
And here was Aunt Edwards once again. If you go
look at fourth quarter numbers in this series, Luca against
(08:58):
Aunt Edwards, Minnesota Timberwolves, without question, points, assists, rebounding, field
goal percentage. The best player in the fourth quarter in
this series has consistently been Aunt Edwards. That's how you
win a playoffs series and quickly maturing, quickly defining basketball player.
(09:20):
So the t Wolves are deeper and Edwards is the
best player. But I think more than anything, remember when
the Lakers made that trade, the Luca thing and Mark
Williams a center. Remember that whole deal Mark Williams they
were going to get a Mark Williams, the center who'd
been injured, but he was a definitive NBA big, big,
wide body shot blocker, and then it got canceled because
(09:42):
team doctors wouldn't give it a pass. In LA, well,
JJ Reddick was telling you, yeah, I wasn't part of
that decision because he won't play Jackson Hayes. And you're
not beating Minnesota without some bigs. I mean, Julius Randall,
who's never been good in the playoffs, is having a
tremendous series on three pointers. And so why Randall's a big,
He's getting good looks. And so you know, JJ Reddick's
(10:04):
telling you this roster needs tweaking. I'm playing five, I
may play I may trust four. And here was JJ after.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
We've certainly played well enough to win, and we gave
the effort to win, and you know, the not a
planned thing to play five guys in the entire second half.
We asked him at the beginning of the fourth quarter,
told them we had two extra timeouts. You know, if
you need to sub let us know. Those guys gave
gave a lot. I think once you've kind of made
(10:35):
that decision and you know, and that they all are
in you just got to trust them.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Aunt Edwards led the NBA this year in clutch regular
season points. Minnesota as a basketball team was in all
sorts of games like this. They led the NBA in
clutch games, meaning close, tight, hard fought games. That's what
the te Wolves did all regular season. They were built
(11:04):
for it. In Aunt Edwards, whose three point shot improved dramatically.
He was built for it. They now have a three
to one series lead. They'll be well rested. Will the
Lakers will be as well. The next game is Wednesday,
and here's Ant.
Speaker 5 (11:19):
I'm just trying to take advantage of every opportunity. I mean,
because you know, I've been dreaming of this all my life,
whether it was football or basketball.
Speaker 6 (11:28):
So just being in these situations.
Speaker 5 (11:30):
And now it's going against Brunn and Luca, and Luca
probably the best player in the game, young player in
the game, and Brun is the best player leaving the game.
So just trying to, you know, prove I belong and
to all my haters and people who criticize me, that
I'm better than they think.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Ant is officially the best young player in the game.
Did you see him battling Lebron. He's like I got Lebron.
Did you see that wrestling match? You're not getting that
from Luke on the defensive end. Offense runs the league.
I'm not denying that, but look at Ant's fourth quarter numbers.
His energy is through the roof. Not just his points,
(12:09):
but his field goal percentage. Look at Luca's field goal percentage.
Guys get tired. Shots are flat. So if you want
one of the things that made Jordan, we only showed
Jordan's offensive highlights. What made Michael Jordan great was his
relentless defense along with his relentless offense and clutch play
(12:30):
in the fourth core Michael's energy. You could go to
quadruple overtime. Michael's energy, even when he was sick the
Utah games was just better than other players. Look at
Ant's fourth quarters. That is young inimpeccable shape. Because Ant
previously first couple of years he would wear down Layton games.
(12:51):
He does it anymore. He picks his spots. He is
putting up forty two percent three point in the fourth
and you're pett in your defender on him.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
So he has arrived.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
He has got the argument to me as the best
young player in the game. Rocket is giving every home
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Speaker 2 (13:24):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in newon Eastern nin am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one, and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
All right, Colin Wright, Colin wrong on a Monday, Here
we go.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Where Colin was right, Aunt.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Edwards continues to be the best young player in the game.
And I said this last week not a GM in
this league would take Jahn Morant over Aunt Edwards.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Jaw got swept.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Okay, Ann Edwards is dominating fourth quarters, and three years
ago Ja Morant was the better player. Clearly, that is
not close to the case. Aunt takes on the wrong
and can play a rigorous, strong, physical, intimidating defensive game.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Jaw can't.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
You are looking at in my opinion, that the best
domestic player in the league right now at his age,
certainly Aunt Edwards.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Where Colin was wrong, I.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Thought Shador Sanders was the second best quarterback I washed
in college football to cam Ward and listen, he fell out.
There's a lot of explanations for it. To complete seventy
four percent of your throws behind a terrible offensive line
is impressive, but there's enough bad tape out there with
him that it didn't blow people away. I do think
he will win the starting job at some point next year.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
And don't listen to Jmac. That is a tasty.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Bat take Shadur to eventually start for the Cleveland Browns.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
I was wrong.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
I would have taken him if I was Pittsburgh. I
don't know what Pittsburgh's thinking. Must already have Aaron Rodgers
where Colin was right. You know, I don't like to
pick on kids, but I was never a Quinn fan.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
I didn't get it.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
One year ago, people said he could be the first
quarterback taken.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
I didn't buy it. I never had.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
I know he's a five star high school quarterback. I
know he won a bunch of games with Texas. I
don't see it he was the thirteenth quarterback taken.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
I just he had.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Great protection and unbelievable wide receivers at Texas and made
some incredibly big throws. But I never watched him during
college football and thought that's a franchise quarterback, and he
ended up being the thirteenth quarterback taken.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Where Colin was raw.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
I thought the Chicago Bears were gonna go heavy defense
in the draft because they've spent so much money on offense.
They said, nope, tight end, wide receiver, offensive tackle with
their first three picks. I liked the picks, but I mean,
they have so much talent on offense. Colston Lovelin one
of my favorite players. No excuses for Caleb Williams. Ben
(15:52):
Johnson is clearly running the draft room because they are
going free agency and drafting, their best picks and pickups
are offense.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Where Colin was right, I said for the.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Last month, I think the Raiders are the perfect pick
for Ashton genty because Geno Smith, historically, when he has
a run game and can throw on play action, is
actually a really good quarterback. You go look to his
career on play action is one hundred and six passer rating.
So now they've got their quarterback in Gino, a star
(16:24):
tight end, a star running back, Colton Miller, a left tackle,
and they went and picked up some running, some wide receivers.
They also have Chip Kelly and Pete Carroll. I don't
know how the Raiders are going to do, but I
thought this was the perfect pick. I loved everything. And
at five to eight people say he's small. It is
hard to get leverage on five eight running backs. Nobody
(16:45):
bounces off more college defenders than Ashton Genty. Where Colin
was raw, Boy did I miss on the Lakers series.
I had the Lakers in five because I thought they
were better offensively, but JJ Reddick has made it very
clear he doesn't trust Jack and Hayes. Translation, we're gonna
play small ball, and Minnesota's dominating the boards. They're more physical,
(17:08):
They've got more rotational options. The Lakers are playing five dudes,
and Luca looked tired at the end. Lebron was tired
at the end, and the Lakers have been outscored by
six or more in every fourth quarter, and a lot
of that is Minnesota is fresher.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Where Colin was right.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
I thought the Pacers were gonna fly through the Bucks.
The Dame injury stinks, but I just think Indiana's got
more good players in their prime. I think Indiana's got
the best talent in the league that nobody talks about.
I really like the Pacers, and I don't like the Bucks,
and I've said this for three years. They're too Yana's centric,
and the big problem is that's okay. The nuggetsri Joki centric,
(17:48):
but I trust Jokic at the free throw line rate late.
I do not trust Yanis at the free throw line
late so much like Shack. You didn't want him at
the line even though he was dominant. So for me,
it's time to blow up this roster. Where Colin was wrong.
I had been told that a wide receiver T Mac
from Arizona. A lot of people had cooled on him,
(18:10):
but it only takes one, and Carolina drafted him with
the eighth pick. I thought some of the draft analysis
on him was interesting. People theorized that Bryce Young is
a smaller quarterback and therefore the long and lanky T
Mac is easier to see. Never thought about that. Probably true,
(18:31):
but yeah, it takes one. I'd heard teams that cooled
on him. Did he love football? Where can you use him?
He's kind of a strider, doesn't get off the.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Line good enough. I was wrong. Be sure to catch
live editions of The Herd weekdays at noon Easter nin
am Pacific.
Speaker 7 (18:48):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David, and together we're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You could catch
us weekdays from five to seven pm Eastern two to
four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the iHeartRadio.
Why should you listen to Covino and Rich. We talk
about everything life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world.
We have a lot of fun talking about the stories
(19:08):
behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture,
stories that well other shows don't seem to have the
time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends
for the last twenty years and still work together. I
mean that says something, right. So check us out. We
like to get you involved too, take your phone calls,
chop it up. As they say, I'd say, the most
interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive
(19:29):
show on planetar. Be sure to check out Covino and
Rich live on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app
from five to seven pm Eastern, two to four Pacific,
And if you miss any of the live show, just
search Covino and Rich wherever you get your podcasts, and
of course on social media.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
That's Covino and.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Rich uh, and it was too many amazing that Shador
Sanders fell on the draft with that. One of my
favorite people at Fox, Greg Olsen, fourteen years in the NFL,
is now joining US Live. You know, I heard it
was funny after Friday show greg Or the second round.
But after my show I called an executive in the
league and he said to me, he goes watch the
(20:06):
next six picks and the first six picks in the
second round, and he says, if those first six picks
in the second round, if they don't take Shadu or
what the league is telling you is we see him
as a backup now and backup quarterback, as Albert Breer
said today, we want it to be like mixed in
(20:27):
with the furniture. Like backup quarterback is a guy that
can go into a local mall with sunglasses and nobody
recognizes them, not Cam Newton or Tim Tebow. So were
you shocked once he didn't go in the first were
you shocked.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
To be fell?
Speaker 8 (20:42):
I think that's the name of the game, right, So
there's an inverse relationship in the NFL. So we'll just
start just generally speaking with most roster players, not just
the quarterback. There's an inverse ratio between the more you
bring with you, the more I don't want to call
it distraction, because sometimes it's a real net positive, right,
call it attention. The more attention you bring upon yourself,
(21:03):
the more attention you go out and seek, the more
the teams will tolerate more of it, the better a
player you are. Right, So there's like this inverse relationship
between those two elements. Now you add into the fact
that it's the quarterback, right, the league has shown us,
and there's a million examples the league has shown us
they want guys that don't there's no extra there's no concerns,
(21:26):
there's no where's his head at, where's his attention lying?
What are his priorities? And again I don't know Shidor
that well. Obviously Dion and we all know his background.
But I think as the draft gets later and later,
the element was is the guy good enough to play
in the NFL? Yes? Is he a top tier talent
where we're willing to then also take maybe everything else
(21:48):
that comes with it. And I think a lot of
it's harmless. I think a lot of it's attention seeking.
I think it's an environment that we've created in college,
where you know, there's a lot more that comes with
playing quarterback nowadays in college than it was when I
was in college.
Speaker 9 (22:01):
So I think that we've.
Speaker 8 (22:02):
Almost created that as a system and as a society,
and now teams have to make a decision if that
guy's not going to be my all pro quarterback, do
I want to put up with it?
Speaker 9 (22:11):
And I think that's.
Speaker 8 (22:12):
Really the test that we saw play out over the
course of the draft. And listen, could he end up
being a steal there in the fifth round?
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Yes?
Speaker 8 (22:20):
Has he shown at two different spots in colleges that
he could go to teams that didn't necessarily have a
great tradition of winning and turn the program around and
bring attention and energy and buzz. Absolutely, he did it twice.
So I'm not throwing him yet. I'm not throwing him
to the Wolves and saying he has no career, but
I think he needs to take a good, hard reset
and say, you know what it's all about ball. It's
(22:42):
all about me giving myself to have a chance to
have a career in this league. And if it's as
a backup and then I worked to a starter, whatever
that path is. But the league I think has shown,
and the message was pretty clear. You better be really,
really talented, especially at quarterback, if we're going to put
up with a lot of other attention, a lot of
other things.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
So you're a former Miami Hurricane. Cam Ward was a
zero star recruit. I watched him at Washington State. I thought, oh,
that's fun, but he's not an NFL guy. Then he
goes to Miami and I'm like, okay, that works. You
watch a lot of Hurricane football. Did you when you
were watching him this year, did you think, oh, that's
the number one pick in the draft? I mean, did
you see it immediately?
Speaker 3 (23:27):
You know?
Speaker 9 (23:27):
So it's kind of funny.
Speaker 8 (23:29):
I think cam Ward is such a great example, especially
in this like college football landscape, where the zero star
guy multiple colleges, three stops later, one year at Miami
and he's the number one overall pick and he couldn't
buy a scholarship at high school. And then all the
kids making ten you know, ten million dollar nil deals
that are five stars are now on their fifth school.
(23:50):
They've all trended downward, and they're all fighting, not all,
but many of them are fighting for their lives. I
think it's a great reminder for everybody out there that
although the system is what it is, it's by no
means indicative of what your future is. On top of that,
to answer your question, I had dinner with Mario Chris
Bos tomorrow. Chris Ball and the head football coach at Miami.
He was my tight end coach in Miami. I've known
(24:11):
him since I was sixteen. He recruited me when I
was a sophomore in high school when he was at
Rutgers with Greg Ciano.
Speaker 9 (24:16):
We go way back.
Speaker 8 (24:17):
And I had dinner with him after spring ball, before
summer camp, before last season, and he said, Greg, we've
had a lot of like dogs and this you know,
the Sean Taylors and the Antrell Roles and the you know,
Edger and James, and we've had some really big time
personalities that have taken charge of a locker room. Here,
he goes, In all my years at Miami, I'm not
(24:37):
sure if we've had a guy like cam Ward who
from day one changed everything about who we were, our identity,
how we practice, how we met. He goes, wait till
you see this kid. This year, I went to the
opening game down at the Swamp in person on the
sideline and watched him his first ever start a Miami
against Florida, and I came away and I don't know
if I would have said he's the number one overall
(24:58):
pick right.
Speaker 9 (24:59):
The footwork's a little awkward, he throws off plane.
Speaker 8 (25:02):
I wouldn't say it's how you would necessarily teach a
young kid to play. It's a little more mahomes ish
as far as a little unconventional, but special. But his
season is pretty remarkable when he did at Miami, the
culture and energy besides just the player.
Speaker 9 (25:17):
To a man at Miami.
Speaker 8 (25:19):
When you said, who is the most impactful player in
that locker room in the last five ten years, it's
Cam Warden.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Yeah, that's a great straight So he looks as a
great kid.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Explain to me, I would put Travis Hunter on offense,
and I'd want him in the offensive meeting rooms. But
he's too good. If there's a show, hey thing here,
probably too good not to play on defense. Explain to me,
install day, how does that work?
Speaker 2 (25:47):
What meeting is he in?
Speaker 1 (25:50):
All? Right?
Speaker 8 (25:51):
So if I was the coach, right, I have the
magic wand and I'm in charge, I'm putting him to
start in mostly defensive back meetings. I think playing wide
receiver young in the NFL is a little bit easier,
especially when you consider how talented he is physically. It's
a little bit easier to build offensive packages for a
(26:11):
wide receiver and start those out. You know, he might
have ten to fifteen calls in any game plan going
into any week than it is to do the opposite,
To spend all of your time on offense and then
we're going to build out a defensive coverage plan.
Speaker 9 (26:24):
It doesn't really work like that.
Speaker 8 (26:25):
Playing corner, especially young in the NFL is incredibly difficult.
They're hard to find. They don't grow on trees. There
just are more wide receivers in all shapes and sizes
that can run, catch, athletic, and create problems with the
ball in their hands.
Speaker 9 (26:41):
So I agree you got to use them on both.
Speaker 8 (26:43):
I would emphasize early teaching him how to be an
all pro corner and then he can learn and then offense,
there's packages, there's reversus screens. Teach him a handful of
the route tree, teach him the offense, and you can
slow play and almost protect him as an offense of
play caller because we can tell him exactly what your
(27:04):
role is here. Are the plays to be prepared for.
On defense, you're at corner. We've got to be able
to play man zone, too high, single high zone. We've
got to be able to play fire blit zones. The
other team could come out in two backs. They can
come out and spread. You could play to the boundary,
you could play to the field.
Speaker 9 (27:19):
Defense.
Speaker 8 (27:20):
There's a lot more on your plate because you're reacting
to what the offense can do. Offensive play caller, I
can control what I expose him to, especially early, not
overwhelm him, control that side of the ball.
Speaker 9 (27:32):
So that's how I would handle him.
Speaker 8 (27:35):
I just think defensive back in the NFL nowadays, with
the passing of the league and the way the league
is going, you just can't find enough of those guys,
and when you find a special one, he needs to
play defense.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
So your career at the end was with Pete Carroll.
One of the few draft picks that I felt was
kind of obvious. I didn't hit on many of them,
but I thought Ashton gent Gino Smith is actually a
a pretty darn good quarterback. When he throws on play action,
when you force him to throw on third and eleven,
you know that's the Mahomes, Josh Allen where they can
(28:08):
make it work. You know Pete, you know how he
views the running game. Talk a little bit that about
that with Jent, who's dynamic, but you can also get
short yardage with because he's so strong.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Yeah, I'm with you.
Speaker 8 (28:23):
I think of all the drafts there in the top ten,
call it that one made the most sense. Like that
just felt that's his Marshawn, that's his that's his bell cow,
that's his guy. That is the identity of Pete. Play
great defense, control to run, play action. He went out
and got brought Gino with him. Gino understands what Pete
wants to be, understands the offense he wants to implement,
(28:44):
and then new factor. And he's got two young tight ends.
I would argue brock Bowers, he very well could be
the best young tight end to come out of college
in the last ten years. Like I think he's that special.
I thought he was that good when he was at Georgia.
So two young tight ends with mayor from Notre Dame
from the previous year that Rockbert Bowers going into a
second second year continue to invest in an offensive line
(29:07):
now a bellcout quarterback, running back, get under center with
Gino play action on early downs. You're right, the guys
that make sixty five seventy million dollars, those guys are
good on first and second down, and they're good on
third and fifteen when everyone in the building knows it's
a pass. That's why there's Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes
and Joe Burrow, etc. The vast majority of the league.
(29:28):
And this is not a knock the vast majority of
the league. The formula is, you want to throw play
action downs on first and second down, and you do
not want to be and must pass downs. That is
the formula on ninety percent of NFL rosters until you
have the elite of the elite and every down is
a passing down. But there's only a couple of those guys,
So I think the formula works. He has showed that
(29:49):
it's worked for a long time. He's got the quarterback
that can do it. He's got it back now, he's
got the tight ends. Continue to invest in the offensive line,
and all of a sudden, this looks like what a
Pete Carroll offense wants to be.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Finally, you played with Cam Newton a spectacularly gifted athlete
who was also a good pocket guy when he wanted
to be. You also played in Chicago and you were
a big part of Cam's career the tight end. Okay,
so now the Bears, with a spectacularly talented quarterback in Chicago,
say we're going to get another tight end. So I
(30:22):
think that you could say, boy, Colston Lovelin went high.
They just got Romadonze, they had Cole Comet. But there
is to talk about why tight end is so crucial
for everybody but really athletic quarterbacks. And I mean, you
were Cam's guy, and I don't know, I just look
at Caleb and Colston and I think that's going to work.
(30:45):
And I loved the pick. Or is it just this
that tight ends mean more to young quarterbacks?
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Is that it?
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Well?
Speaker 8 (30:53):
I definitely think tight ends mean a lot to young quarterbacks.
I think that's been proving. There's a lot of examples throughout.
Speaker 9 (30:57):
But I also just think tight ends bring a lot
of value in.
Speaker 8 (31:00):
Today's style the way that these offensive coordinators you look
obviously Ben Johnson, now the style in which these offensive
play callers want to operate, the tight end is a
huge role in that because, again, like we said, if
you want to get under center, and you want to
get into early play action on run fifty to fifty downs,
and you want to be able to keep the defense
in single high coverages for all your crossers and your
(31:22):
layers and all your deep shots, you can't be in
a let You can't be in ten personnel right. You
can't have four wide receiver types and one back in
the back right. So you got to have somebody that
can keep you honest in the why position, the tight
end position. He could be an off ball player, he's
an on ball player. There's a lot of ways to
do it, but there needs to be some form of
threat on first and second down that you're not just
(31:44):
in past personnel in shotgun the entire game. We've seen
that that approach across the league is very difficult. So
now you bring in Ben Johnson, Caleb Williams. Now you
have Cole commeet who you mentioned Rome Denze from last year.
Don't forget they got DJ Moore from the from the
Bryce Young trade, you know, a couple of years ago.
Now you add in you know, so all of a sudden,
(32:06):
now they've invested multiple offensive linemen they're saying, we need
our number one overall pick to succeed. We got him
the coach, we've got him, the line, we've got him
the skill players. Now we'll worry about going back and
worrying about building up the defense. But remember offensive coaches, Colin,
if you're good on offense and the defense struggles, you
can always find a new defensive coordinator.
Speaker 9 (32:27):
That's the format we see that.
Speaker 8 (32:29):
I hate to say it, but when they were struggling
in Philadelphia and they couldn't get the defense right following
Jonathan Gannon, all of a sudden a year later, who's available,
Vic Fangio. Yeah, all of a sudden in the Cincinnati
they've got the greatest offense in the league, offensive minded coach,
and Zach Robinson and.
Speaker 9 (32:47):
Zach Taylor, Zach Taylor. And what do they do.
Speaker 8 (32:51):
They get rid of a defensive coordinator who was up
to be a head coach just a year or two before.
So that's the formula. Get your young quarterbacks settled, get
your new offensive minded head coach, Ben Johnson, get him
going on offense, and then we have time to finish
up complimenting the defense. That's the NFL formula. And I
think the Bears have four to five wins built into
(33:12):
this just by getting organized offensively. With Ben Johnson in company,
I think there's a four game elevation within that roster
just by getting organized offensively.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Greg Olsen, you do great work, my friend, as well
as I appreciate you stopping by.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and newon Easter nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
So there we'll get to Greg co sel in a
couple of minutes. Eli Manning is putting a bid together
for a minority interest in the Giants, So I know, Eli,
I really like this idea. Since Eli Manning moved out
of his prime, the New York Giants have been They've
made so many bad decisions. Nick, I like Brian Dabole.
(33:59):
Finally they have a coach I like, and he better winner.
He's gone by Thanksgiving. But they've made so many bad
decisions head coaches, quarterbacks, general managers.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
That's upstairs stuff.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Ask yourself this, when's the last time the Hunt family
with the Chiefs butchered a free agent quarterback signing or
missed on a first round quarterback signing draft.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
It just doesn't happen very often.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Since twenty seventeen, the Giants are last in wins and
thirty first in point differential and points per game and
sack differential. It's a bad franchise that's upstairs. Stop blaming
the coaches, Stop blaming the players. That's upstairs. Like if
you look at consistently, it's not a coincidence that Washington
(34:46):
ran out the worst owner in the league and triple
their win total. It's not just Jayden Daniels. Jaden doesn't
do it. Without the right coordinator, the right general manager,
the right culture. Jaden would not have done that. The
previous group. They just kept getting in their way. And
I'll say this, you can trust Eli, and I know
(35:06):
I'll give you an example of why I like the
Manning family. Arch Manning goes to Texas. So Texas is
a massive football brand like Ohio State, Michigan, Notre Dame,
Texas big Arch Manning doesn't get a start first year,
second year, And by the way, I think he's better
than quin yours. I think if he would have been
(35:28):
in the draft this year without starting in college, somebody
would have taken him in the second round. I really
believe that this quarterback draft, somebody would have taken arch
Manning second and said we're gonna go with jeans. Archie
was good, Eli was good, Peyton, We're just gonna go
with jeans.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
And yet he didn't transfer. He's been a team player.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
It's so Manning like dignity, thoughtful class New York Giants.
They got an upstairs problem. I said, the Chicago Bears
finally with Ben Johnson like control the draft Chicago for years.
Detroit before Dan Campbell and their new GM and executive suite,
(36:06):
Detroit had an upstairs problem.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
They didn't have a quarterback problem. That Stafford was great.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
So we always look in this sport whenever a team loses,
it's the coach. No, Washington had an upstairs problem. The
Giants do. That doesn't mean the Mars are totally inept,
but they need a fresh set.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Of eyes and ears.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
And the Mannings they make really good decisions, football decisions,
parenting decisions, business decisions. They just make really good decisions.
With that forty five years NFL films, Greg Coseller is
joining us, So let's just talk football, for get all
the other nonsense. If Pittsburgh, so the Rams, my understanding
(36:49):
didn't really Shador was not on their board as a starter.
They liked Jackson Dart New York Giants liked Jackson Dart
over Shador. There's nothing wrong with that. I had a
friend of mine who's a former GM. He liked Jackson
Dard a lot, not as much as cam Ward, but
he liked him more than should do. He liked him
a lot. So, and I think everybody thinks cam was
the best quarterback in a week class.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Pittsburgh Steelers.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
According to the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, a reporter there, we're
not in the starting quarterback hunt. They looked at next year.
I'm told the Rams looked at next year. The Browns
trading down early, told you next year's class, we'll go
get backups this year. So if I was a GM
and I wasn't into Shadors playing, what on film did
(37:37):
you watch that you believe Greg could turn a general
manager off and just not see him as an elite
quarterback prospect.
Speaker 10 (37:46):
Well, I think that that I think relates to what
the league has become Colin for starting quality starting quarterbacks.
We're talking about guys that would top five quarterbacks in
the league. Because if you're drafting Sanders high, that's what
you're expecting him to be a top five quarterback in
the league. So what you're dealing with is a player
who's essentially a pocket quarterback. If he's to become a
(38:08):
really good quarterback in the NFL, at his core, he's
a pocket player. Now he's not immobile, it's not as
if he's a statue, but at his core he would
have to be successful as a pocket player, and as
a pocket quarterback.
Speaker 6 (38:20):
His traits are good, not great.
Speaker 10 (38:23):
So where does that kind of player get drafted in
the NFL and what does he become in the NFL.
He's a pocket quarterback with good traits, he's a lower
level CJ.
Speaker 6 (38:34):
Stroud. CJ.
Speaker 10 (38:35):
Stroud, essentially a pocket quarterback, is bigger, he's a better thrower.
Speaker 6 (38:40):
So CJ.
Speaker 10 (38:41):
Stroud, who's drafted second and has done well in his
first two years. Sanders is a similar style quarterback in
terms of his approach to the way in which he plays,
but he's not as gifted. He's smaller and doesn't throw
it as well. So where does that player get drafted?
That's why he was all over the board, just as
a player putting everything else aside. I had coaches tell
(39:04):
me that they thought he was a backup. I had
coaches tell me he was a first round pick. I
had coaches telling me he's a third round pick. So
he was all over the board because his traits are
not quite at the level where it's unanimous or obvious
as to what he projects to be at the NFL level.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
So again, let's keep it to football.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
If you were to draft Jackson Dart over him, because
I know two people that preferred Jackson Dart, what did
you see about Jackson Dart that a GM would go, Oh,
I like that, that's better than Shador.
Speaker 10 (39:35):
Well, that gets into the same question. I think you
have the mobility factor. I think Jackson Dart, while he's
not explosive and dynamic, Jackson Dart, his legs are a factor.
So now you get into the fact that he can
make plays on third down with his legs, and that
changes the way defenses have to play. See, the thing
is you have to think about now the NFL. We're
(39:56):
not just doing this in a vacuum. We're projecting players,
and you see him right here. We're projecting players to
play in the NFL, and what that means so the
fact that he can beat you with his legs means
that that changes at times in critical down in distant situations,
the way defenses have to play.
Speaker 6 (40:12):
His arm is.
Speaker 10 (40:13):
Probably as good or maybe even a little better than Sanders,
and he has that mobility and that's a key key factor.
So Jackson Dart could easily be seen and he was
by some teams just the football part, as a better
prospect than your Dor Sanders.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
So it's interesting, I thought the Bears because the last
two years in free agents, I know, I.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Said, Greg, they're going to go defense. They didn't.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
They went offense again. I mean last year they did
it draft and free agency. This year they did it
free agency and draft. So Ben Johnson saying, listen, I'm
going to clean up my side of the ball. We'll
get the defense later. So they go Colston Loveland, Luther Burden,
who's a really could be a very interesting pover, and
(41:02):
Matt Hasselbeck, by the way, likes what did you make too? Yeah,
what did you make of those first three picks? And
how they'll help Caleb Williams.
Speaker 6 (41:11):
Well, they're going to play a lot of twelve personnel.
Speaker 10 (41:14):
You know, a lot of people thought they'd take Tyler Warren,
but Tyler Warren is a redundancy for them because Cole
Kamet stylistically is the same kind of player. We could
say Warren's better, but stylistically, in the context of their offense,
they're the same player. So they went with the more athletic,
a tight end in Lovelin, who gives them more so
they'll play with twelve personnel at the times and they'll
(41:36):
be really difficult.
Speaker 6 (41:37):
And then Luthor Burden.
Speaker 10 (41:38):
I mean, I loved Luthor Burton's tape and I think
Luth the Burden in the context of a Ben Johnson offense.
And I'm not going to sit here and say he's
going to do exactly what Alman ros Saint Brown did
because you never know, but I think that he stylistically
fits that.
Speaker 6 (41:53):
Role in a Ben Johnson offense.
Speaker 10 (41:55):
And I think you know with Burden, now they can
line up in twelve personnel with two tight ends, the
lineup in eleven perconnel with.
Speaker 6 (42:01):
A Douneesay Moore and Burden.
Speaker 10 (42:04):
I mean, this is a really, really good offense in
terms of the skill players. And Trapillo didn't surprise me
at all that he went where he did. I studied
his tape. He's a really good player. He played right
tackle at BC. They're going to have to make a
decision as to whom becomes the left tackle, whether they
can move Trpillo there, who's played that in college, or
(42:24):
Darnell Wright, who's been their right tackle. But Trapillo is
a really, really good prospect. So I love what they
did on the offensive side of the ball.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
So it was pretty obvious.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
There were certain teams, and I think the Chargers are
one where I had had dinner with their offensive coordinator
a couple of days a week before the draft actually,
and he said, listen, we have a really good football team.
We need a little bit more juice on offense. Well,
they went and got it with Trey Harris and Hampton.
Let's talk about the Chargers. Let's talk about Hampton, the
(42:53):
running back in Trey Harris. What does that provide that
they didn't have last year?
Speaker 6 (43:00):
Well, I love Murray and Hampton. I loved his tape.
Speaker 10 (43:03):
I didn't think there was much of a difference at
all between Hampton and Genty. To me, Hampton just looked
like a feature foundation back on tape. Some people thought,
and I could see that that they were similarities to
Jonathan Taylor stylistically, and he is clearly the kind of
back that you could give the ball twenty times a
game too. We know it's Greg Roman. We know they
(43:23):
want to run the football, you know, we know that's
the way they play. That's foundationally how they want to
start their offense. So now you get the play action
pass game off of that. And last year they had
pretty good success at times with the play action pass game,
so now they can do more of it.
Speaker 6 (43:37):
Harris is an intriguing guy.
Speaker 10 (43:39):
I watched him last summer Colin from twenty twenty three
when he had a big year. This year, he got
hurt after seven games. I saw every game, every snap.
I kept going back and forth on him. He's I
just wasn't sure if he was a vertical dimension in
the league. He's long and he has stride length, but
he didn't run real well and I'm just really curious
as to what he will be. Little uncertain about him,
(44:01):
but I know a lot of people liked him. I
just kept going back and forth in my mind. I'm
very curious to see what he becomes in the National
Football League.
Speaker 6 (44:08):
But the Hampton pick I absolutely love.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
That so I was told that Seattle wants to play
Jalen Milroe in six or seven plays a game. Is
that they just think he's too athletic not to get
on the field. And I mean there, I mean there
were times with Lamar Jackson, you watched them his first year,
You're like, is he the best athlete on either team?
I mean, Michael Vick at the component Milroe is a
(44:32):
sensational athlete. Yeah, we know he can be a bit mechanical.
But what does he do from your film study that
you think immediately translates to production in the NFL?
Speaker 10 (44:44):
Now, Well, I think one of the things that's become
really big in this league, and you see it with
the Eagles, you certainly see it with Lamar is the
importance of the quarterback run game, the design quarterback runs
a in the red zone. And I think that's where
Milroe can be a factor. Don't forget that McDonald spent
(45:05):
a year or so with Baltimore, so he knows all
about the quarterback run game and the design of it
and how it can really break down and attack defenses.
And that's where I think Milroe can become a factor.
But I actually really like Seattle's draft as a whole colin.
They traded up to get they traded up to get
Nick Mnarie, and I'm sure all of us immediately thought
(45:26):
that's Kyle Hamilton and the Mike McDonald defense because they're
stylistically similar players. So their defense and maybe people are
sleeping on it, but what they've done defensively this offseason
and what they've built defensively, they could be one of
the best defensive teams in the NFL this year.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:44):
No, he was.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
The safety from South Carolina. I was told this by
a couple of people. He's kind of a can't miss.
He's just so ra so athletic. There are very few
guys that can't miss. And you know, you think, oh,
we'd go in the first round. But safety's a different position.
But he kind of feels like I can't miss in
the NFL. So I want to go back to Travis Hunter.
So you looked at him as a corner and you
(46:07):
look at him as a receiver. If I said to you, Greg,
he ended up being a pro bowler at one position.
If you had to guess based on your film story,
there was what he was good at both, but one
of them he becomes a pro bowler, which side would
you predict?
Speaker 10 (46:25):
I mean, he's you know, I think that early on
he would have a better chance of being a pro
bowler as a receiver.
Speaker 6 (46:33):
Than as a corner.
Speaker 10 (46:34):
Interesting because I think as a I think as a corner,
we know about the physical traits, but you watch his
tape and as a corner he doesn't really play with
any technique because he's never had to, and I think
in the NFL he'll have to. But I think the
larger question with Travis Hunter, and again I don't listen
to what everybody says Colin, so I don't know if
this has been talked about, but I think the larger
(46:56):
issue is not whether he can play one hundred and
fifteen or a hundred twenty snap game. Maybe he's just
that freak that can. But the issue is preparation during
the week. He can't be in the offensive and the
defensive meetings at the same time. And you know how coaches,
how anal coaches are about their meetings and their details
and their nuance, and you know, you just can't be
(47:18):
in both meetings.
Speaker 6 (47:18):
There's not enough hours in the day.
Speaker 10 (47:20):
So I'm very curious to see how that works because
you can't be part of both sides of the ball
in all the detail that's required.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
Yeah, finally, when you.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
Looked at Ashton Genty's tape, I imagine the Oregon game.
The Oregon game is one that you really zoned in on.
Because they have NFL players everywhere, it is harder to
make a gas are playing smaller schools. What is the
one The first time you looked at Ashton, Jenny was
now a Raider the first time you looked at his
tape and went, Okay, this is you know, it's Boise State.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
This is real.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
This is a real difference makeup. Was there something that
popped for you at tendency or a trick you had
seen before and went, yeah, that's McCaffrey or that's whoever.
Speaker 10 (48:04):
Well, contact balance, because you're going to get hit in
the NFL, you've got to run inside between the tackles.
You can't be a great back in the NFL by
just running on the perimeter.
Speaker 6 (48:15):
So he has this unique.
Speaker 10 (48:16):
Ability to absorb hits and keep going without really losing
any of his momentum.
Speaker 6 (48:22):
And that's a rare trait.
Speaker 10 (48:24):
So to me, his best trade is contact balance, and
that's something that is absolutely essential. Now he's got other
traits as well. I don't want to make it seem
like that's his only trade. Obviously he's a great, great prospect,
but I think the contact balance part is really really special.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
By the way, I want to add this, I watched
virtually every pick, and I know it didn't have a
lot of stars, but it's hard to convince me there
weren't a lot of good players. When Cody Simon or
file State linebacker went in the fourth, I thought he
was a really good player. I mean it was a
heart and soul of that defense. And Damian Martinez, who
(49:02):
watch play, Yeah that time, Greg, I can't believe it's
round running back. You didn't get it either.
Speaker 6 (49:09):
Yeah, No, that to me.
Speaker 10 (49:11):
And again, all I can tell you is how I
evaluate the players. I'm not one who too speaks about
whether teams did a good job or a bad job,
because they've got thirty people doing this and these guys
work really hard. But I really like Damian Martinez. I
watched him last summer when he was at Oregon State.
I watched him this year at the University of Miami.
I think this guy, in the right system could actually
(49:32):
be a feature back, and to be honest with you,
and we'll see how it plays out. We'll see how
it plays out in camp. But I personally think he's
a better runner. Now again, there may be other elements here,
but he's a better runner than Zach Charbonay. And you
know Zach Charboney right now is the number two back
in Seattle. So we'll see how it plays out through
OTA's mini camp and training camp. But I really like
(49:53):
Damian Martinez. I was really surprised he went in the
seventh round.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
Yeah, now, no, that jumped out to me. I said, Okay,
can tell me this isn't a great draft. That is
an NFL You think he's a feature back. All I
know is that guy I watched him in college. He
was five yards of carry, run over people run past him.
He was five yards of carry.
Speaker 6 (50:12):
And power translates. You know, That's the thing.
Speaker 10 (50:15):
There's a lot of great athletes in the NFL, as
we know Colin, but power is one thing at all
positions that normally translates, and he's a powerful runner.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
Greg Cosel forty five years NFL Films, Good seeing again,
smart stuff as allays Greg one.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
More heard the Herd streams twenty four hours a day,
seven days a week. Within the iHeartRadio app, Search Herd
to listen live or on demand whenever you like. Oh,
here we go.
Speaker 1 (50:44):
It is a Thursday, and a very different Thursday than
we predicted. The Lakers exit stage right, they are How did.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
Minnesota lose a game in this series? It's over? J
Mack Humble tiede.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
But you know what, we always bring Chris Finch on
the show the t Wolves coach during the season. I
think next time we call him he will be available
once again.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
I mean, that was impressive.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
Very very crazy, winding three games for the Lakers. Greg Okay,
here we go. Simplest explanation. Chris Finch and his staff worked,
JJ Reddick and his staff, and Minnesota's best players out
played the lakers best players.
Speaker 2 (51:38):
I mean Austin Reeves a no show.
Speaker 1 (51:40):
Lebron last couple of games looked tired and Luca's worst
qualities were exposed. There was a late sequence in this game,
with about two forty five left. It was a late
sequence where Julius Randall blew by Luca and scored. Okay,
so he blows Luca, it's right here, just blows by
(52:03):
him and scores. On the other end, Luca misses a
lap and then complains about it to the referee. And
while he's complaining, the tea Wolves in transition and scores
on the other end from a two point game to ballgame.
Luca daisical. And by the way, I'm not saying the
MAVs won the trade with the Lakers. But Nico Collison
(52:25):
slept very well last night, Harrison. Excuse me, Nico Harrison
slept very very well last night. Listen Lebron in the
fourth quarter of the last two games.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
You saw it.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
He was tired. He was gassed, two for nine from
the floor. And the Lakers in this series, in the
fourth quarter, they got worked. And that was about a
tired Lebron and a coaching staff in Minnesota that pulled
all the right levers. The Lakers in the fourth quarter
scored seventeen thirteen twenty nineteen sixteen. And JJ Reddick's insistence
(53:05):
got very stubborn, his insistence to play only five guys
the entire second half of Game four, which is bizarrely,
I mean, it's historically bizarre. That's the only thing I
can say. I'm not a coach, it's just historically. I've
never seen it. I've never thought it would be discussed.
(53:26):
This is a small ball team that was already outsized
the entire series and out rebounded the entire series.
Speaker 2 (53:33):
So you're the smaller or less physical team.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
And you're gonna play your guys the entire second half
and one of them is in his forties. Okay, And
JJ Reddick before the game got very defensive about this.
Speaker 11 (53:51):
Is there an assistant or someone maybe that you'll lean
on tonight maybe to try to get you know, some
other guys involved, if that opportunity to presents.
Speaker 4 (54:00):
Are you saying that because I'm inexperienced and that was
an inexperienced decision that I made. Do you think I
don't talk to my assistance about substitutions every single time out?
Speaker 6 (54:10):
No?
Speaker 11 (54:10):
I just think there's a lot of coaches lean on
their assistance in those situations, as.
Speaker 6 (54:14):
Do every single time.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
That's a weird assumption, bro, It's not the moment to
be the coolest, smartest guy in the room. You went
heavy small ball with the oldest star in the league.
You didn't sub him, and Lebron looked tired in Game
four of the end, and he looked tired last night,
plus Minnesota, which was already a bigger team, leaned into
(54:40):
their size. Rudy Gobert, a defensive player, might as well
have been Wilt Chamberlain last night. He was unstoppable. That's
on coaching. And by the way, JJ, what is Maxy
Kleeber doing on the floor late? This was a coaching mismatch.
Julius Randall and McDaniels Gobert. They all played the Lakers
(55:03):
players and the te Wolves own the fourth quarter. The
fourth quarter is not just the stars quarter, it's the
coaching quarter. This is not a complicated breakdown. Better coach,
better decisions, a more complete roster, and better fourth quarters.
I mean, Lebron wasn't terrible in the fourth. He was
clearly exhausted. Probably not going to play him in the
(55:28):
entire second half when you're already the smaller team. And
by the way, Chris Finch and his guys, his staff,
they were already bigger. They made an adjustment to make
Rudy Gobert the centerpiece last night, and you're playing late,
MAXI Kleeber, what are we doing here? So in the playoffs,
(55:48):
let's be honest about it. Their truth serum Austin Reeves,
y'all love him, but in the playoffs, when it's the
same teams playing the same guy night after night after night,
Austin Reeves moves into town. You're tired, you played last night?
He drops twenty two. Wow, he's undrafted, and Minnesota exposed him.
(56:12):
They set their drafted better athletes at Austin Reeves and
he didn't do anything. The playoffs are truth serum, and
the truth is this Laker roster is incomplete. JJ Reddick
made a bad decision in Game four and got defensive
about it, and the fourth quarters te Wolves players we're
(56:36):
better than the Laker stars. It's not a shot at
Lebron or even Luca, although can we now all be
honest about Luca's conditioning and defense. They're going after him regularly.
Here was Charles Barkley on J. J. Reddick's pushback, anger
and rigidity.
Speaker 12 (56:57):
He just is a little sensitive enough. And one of
the things that people say they never watched television. We
all lie, All jocks watched television.
Speaker 2 (57:06):
And he's been getting.
Speaker 12 (57:08):
Criticized the last for eight dollars for playing those guys
and he just sensitive just say, hey, you know what
if I had it nobody. Everybody's afraid to say I
was wrong. All he had to do was say, hey,
you know what, I shouldn't have played those guys the
whole second half, and that's it.
Speaker 2 (57:23):
Then it would have been over.
Speaker 1 (57:25):
We always consider in America football to be the coaches sport,
but you get into the playoffs and I watched this series.
And I'm not just saying this because I don't know
JJ Reddick, I know Chris Finch a little, but there
was one coaching staff pulling all the right levers on
this and Minnesota.
Speaker 2 (57:44):
I mean that was so.
Speaker 1 (57:45):
Obvious last night. Remember we talked about this yesterday. They
were six and a half point underdog. I'm like, are
the Laker players getting taller? Is Lebron getting younger?
Speaker 8 (57:53):
Like?
Speaker 1 (57:53):
They were bigger and they leaned in too Rudy Gobert.
So they clearly as a staff, said guys, we got
an edge here. Size doesn't get smaller fast. Guys can
get slower over a series, but size doesn't get smaller.
And they just went all in on Gobert and he
was unstoppable. Rudy Gobert, his entire career has been stoppable,
(58:19):
completely stoppable. Last night, he was unstoppable. I mean, Maxi
Kleeber playing guys in the entire second half. I'm sorry.
Coaching better players, better levers, pulled better roster
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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