May 14, 2025 • 43 mins
Jason reacts live after the Oklahoma City Thunder get a massive win in Game 5 vs. the Denver Nuggets to take a 3-2 lead. He discusses Shai Gilgeous-Alexander rising to the moment and beating Nikola Jokic and Jamal Murray in crunch time. Then he discusses Tyrese Haliburton leading the Indiana Pacers to a 4-1 series win over Donovan Mitchell and the Cleveland Cavaliers.
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All right, welcome to hoops tonight. You're at the volume
heavy Tuesday, Buddy hop ball. If you guys are having
a great week. Another fantastic game from this OKC Denver
series that has given us plenty of great basketball here
in the second round and the Pacers close out the
Cleveland Cavaliers earlier today. We're gonna be breaking down both
of those games from the perspective of both teams, and
then we'll take about ten to fifteen minutes of questions
(02:19):
at the tail end of the show. When we are
done here tonight, we'll be heading over to playback again
that's playback dot tv slash Hoops Tonight, or we'll be
taking questions, taking callers, hanging out watching some film, just
having some fun talking hoops for an extra forty five
minutes to an hour or so after we finish here
live on YouTube, you guys know the Joe before we
get started, to subscribe to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channels.
(02:40):
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Make sure you guys follow us there. In the last
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chat so we can get to them in our questions
(03:00):
at the tail end of the show. All right, let's
talk some basketball. So you know, there's been a pretty
consistent theme over the last couple of games. The thunder
Stars have actually struggled to create quality shots for the
most part over the course of the last two games,
but in both games they've been able to make plays late.
Those of you guys who hung out with us on
(03:21):
playback on Sunday night or Sunday afternoon, we went over
some of that footage and you'll see that a couple
of big driving buckets from Shay and from JDub, a
big right shoulder fade from Shay out of that five
second call they forced on the baseline. And so even
though those guys struggled in large part, they were able
to make big plays late to put the game away. Similarly, tonight,
(03:44):
same sort of thing. JDub and Shay both struggling throughout
the game. JDub hits a huge three on a kickout
off of a double team kind of like swing swing
sequence where he gets a wide open three on the
left wing. He had just airmailed one from the right
wing a few possessions earlier, and just confidently steps in
and knocks down the big one late Shay, that huge
(04:04):
driving spin move bucket, the and one on Jamal Murray
around the left elbow, the step back three over Christian Brown,
and the left wing, the driving lob Isaiah Hartenstein. The
plays were made late to put the game away. But
the question is, how is it that they were in
a position with their stars not playing very well to
(04:25):
win a game like that down the stretch against a
Denver Nuggets offense that is one of the greatest offenses
that we've seen in recent NBA history. I was going
over with Jackson the numbers from the series. The Nuggets
only get one hundred and five points tonight, despite the
fact that Jokic goes for forty four, that they get
(04:45):
sixty two out of Jokich and Murray in the game.
The Nuggets only got eighty seven in Game four. They
only got one hundred and four in Game three. They
only got one hundred and six in Game two. Since
that Game one explosion where they went for one hundred
and twenty one points, they haven't been able to have
any sort of sustained offensive success. And that's because the
(05:05):
real star of the Oklahoma City Thunder is their defense.
Their defense keeps them in these games long enough for
their younger stars to work through their lumps and to
find the ability to make a few plays late. It
buys them all of this margin for air. And even
though they lost control of Yokic tonight, they've had a
great deal of success with him in this series by
(05:27):
overplaying his right hand with Isaiah Hartenstein, which is forcing
Jokic into some really difficult finishing positions where he's missing
shots that he usually makes. You know, they're posting chet
on the backside to help. Anytime Jokic goes towards the rim,
they're doubling him on the baseline side. Every single time
he tries to post up, He's They've had extended success
(05:47):
against Denver's defense against Denver's offense, and in tonight's game,
even though Jokic had it going, they got control of
Jamal Murray late and no one else on the roster
was able to do any sort of substantial damage to
them in this game. Their defense, through the incessant pressure
and wearing you down and getting you to miss shots
like Michael Porter Junior is oh for fourteen from three
(06:10):
in the last three games. You want to know why
he's oh for fourteen from three in the last three games.
It's because his legs are cooked. His legs are cooked
from contending with this team. Yes, the shoulder injury plays
a role, but his right hand he can follow through
and shoot this shot. He can't even get it over
the front of the rim. As his last two threes
were pitifully short. Most of them have been pitifully short.
(06:30):
They're wearing them down. Jamal Murray misses another wide open
three out of the right corner late in the game.
There is a cumulative physical wear and tear factor, and
they've been able to walk Denver down. At the tail
end of these games. Denver was up to to one
in the series, led by eight in the fourth quarter
of Game four, led by nine in the fourth quarter
of Game five. In Oklahoma City is up three to
(06:52):
two in this series, and it's because their defense has
managed to keep things close and because their stars have
been able to make plays late in the game, even
though they've struggled in the meat and potatoes of the game. Obviously,
a huge part in this was lou Dart lou Dort,
excuse me, kind of getting out of his shooting slump
in a big way in that fourth quarter. Nicole Jokic
has basically been conceding shots to him whenever he can,
(07:15):
and to Dort's credit, he just kept taking them to
the point where I'm sure there were some Oklahoma City
fans while he was taking them that weren't necessarily thrilled
with the shots, but they went in. He had his moment,
ran back to the to the bench screaming that I'm back,
and he is because he needed every They needed every
single one of those buckets. That's what he raced that
lead that forced it into a crunch time shot making contest,
(07:38):
and Jokic was there. Jokicic went blow for blow with them,
hit one of those absurd, somber shuffle shots at the
top of the key. That was one of the crazier
shots I've seen Yokic hit in his career, especially when
you factor in time in place I've seen him or
time in score, I should say I've seen him hit
that shot before, but like usually, like just at the
end of the quarter, at the end of the shot clock.
For him to tie the game with less than two
(07:59):
minutes left with one of those against a great contest
at the top of the key. You overcame a incredible
Yokic performance that was every bit as good as the
one that we saw in Game one of this series.
And now the thunder up three too, And you know
what happens next is gonna be interesting. Because I talked
after Game four, like I thought Denver blew their chance
(08:21):
to win the series. Their offense was in such a
they were so down in the mud that I didn't
see anything that they had going for them that would
manifest in the ability to win on the road in
Oklahoma City, which would make it very difficult for them
to win this series. Right, Well, there's some encouraging stuff
out of that. So in a weird way, I came
out of Game four thinking this series is over, Oklahoma
(08:44):
City's gonna get it. Now, I still feel like Denver's
got a legitimate chance. Jokic has regained his mojo after
three straight awful games by his standards, and has gotten
back to having the touch on the three point shot,
having the touch on the short range shot, making having
the kind of just like aura and presence that he
(09:05):
brings down the stretch of these games. That is back.
Jamal Murray had his highest volume scoring game of the series,
although not necessarily the most efficient one. He took twenty
seven shots tonight, but Jamal Murray started to get some
things going. There are some things that Denver has going
in terms of their two man game now that gives
them a puncher's chance. I think they have a legitimate
(09:25):
chance to go home and win Game six. And then
after what we've seen tonight, we would all be foolish
to count out NICOLEA Jokicic in a Game seven on
the road in Oklahoma City. That said, I picked Oklahoma
City in seven before the series. This series is kind
of manifested with some of those things in terms of
the way Denver has been able to bog down Oklahoma
City's defense or offense excuse me, and Jokich has been
(09:47):
able to make plays late in games to steal games.
But I still think Oklahoma City is gonna end up
closing this thing out in seven is my best guess
at this point in time.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
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Speaker 2 (10:32):
All right, we're going to talk a little Pacers Caps,
and then we'll get into our mailbag for a little
bit before we get out of here and head over
to playback. So, Pacers Caps. The Cavs jumped up to
a nineteen point lead early in the second quarter. Donovan
Mitchell and Evan Mobley combined for twenty three points in
the first quarter. They defended well, it looks kind of
similar to what happening Game four, where the home team
(10:53):
is just kind of taking control immediately out the gates.
I was complaining to Jackson because I hate playoff series
where the teams just trade off blowouts. It's like somebody
just take a stand and try to win a game
after taking a little bit of a run early. And
that was what the Pacers did, because if you guys
remember in Game four, the Pacers slammed the door shut
(11:15):
with a seventeen to oher run right before the half
that put the game completely out of reach, and all
of a sudden, the Calves were in no position to
even amount even the asseemblance of a comeback. I mean,
they outscored the Pacers by twenty one in the second
half and still lost by twenty right, but the Calves
were unable to make a similar type of run tonight.
In fact, the Pacers made a big second quarter run
(11:38):
that regained a presence in the game that they then
rode to a big lead in the second half. Every
time the Calves made a run, Tyre's Halliburton had a response.
He's the guy who ignited the run right before the
half that brought the game back within reach. He hit
an assortment of pull up threes versus different pick and
roll coverages. He hit one over Jared Allen in a switch,
he hit one over Jared Allen and a dropped coverage
(11:59):
from way out damn near by. The logo just got
a heater. They're shooting the ball. That brought them back
into the game. And then the Cavs did end up
making another run in the fourth quarter that cut the
lead down to one off of a couple of back
to back threes from Donovan Mitchell and Tyres Haliburton slammed
the door shot on that too. He ran a simple
pick and pop off of a big offensive rebound for
(12:20):
Miles Turner and hit Andrew Nemhard on the left wing,
who had a three. Ty Jerome goes down and decides
it's his time, even though it hasn't been his time
in that entire series, so I'm not sure what he
was thinking, but ran in there and tried to take
some floater and Tyres Haliburton just beautiful rear view contests,
swatted it from behind, got the rebound, went down the
(12:40):
other way and got an end one and basically ended
the series and ended the Cleveland Cavaliers season. Now here's
the thing, Tyree's He may not have had the statistical
impact in this series that Donovan Mitchell had, but I
thought he dominated every pivotal stretch of the series. He
goes for twenty two points and thirteen and a wire
(13:00):
to wire pacers just kind of like just demonstrate to
everybody what makes them so good in Game one. Then
he hits the game winner and two driving layups in
crunch time of Game two. Then he goes for thirty one,
six and eight Tonight dominates every pivotal stretch of this
close out game five. Aliburn's just having a very special
(13:23):
playoff run, and I'm really really excited to see what
it looks like in that next round. I want to
shout out a couple other pacers before we look forward.
Miles Turner, I thought he whooped Jared Allen's ass in
this series on both ends of the floor. Scored in
double figures. Every game caused all sorts of problems for
him on the roll where he was missing some shots
that he usually makes killed him on the glass. Had
(13:45):
that critical offensive rebound again tonight after that miss, Jared
Allen boxes him out to one point. Game calves, get
a rebound and go down and score. We might be
heading to Indiana for a game six, but he just
throws Jared Allen out of the way like a rag doll,
gets the offensive rebound swing swing. Next thing you know,
it's that Tyres Alibert Andrew nemhard two band game that
(14:07):
ends in the three that puts him back up by four.
His play finishing the picking pop threes, the short roll,
jump shots around the elbow, beating switches. In this postseason run,
he's shot out of the post on seventeen different possessions
and he's scored nineteen points as a shooter. So he's
routinely been a high value option for them. Every single
(14:29):
time he catches a guard and a switch in ball screens.
He's been excellent. Siakam was consistently good in the series,
but put up his two biggest scoring games to close
the deal. Andrew Aaroni Smith could make a three tonight,
but he had a lot of really high level scoring
moves in the mid range. Andrew nemhard again doing the
job on both ends of the floor, hitting that huge
shot late. They're just the Pacers are just hitting their
peak on both ends of the floor at the perfect time.
(14:53):
I thought their defense was excellent again tonight. They held
the Cavs to seventy four points over the final three
quarters of this game. Even Halliburton I thought was good
on defense, getting deflections in his head and recovers with
high hands. The rear view contest on Ty Jerome was
a huge play late. Like he's active, he's competing, He's
got a shortcomings. He can get out of position. Obviously
he's a smaller slender player on ball, but like he
(15:15):
just competes and does his job on defense. And so
as I look forward to the Knick series, like, I
think this is a very different matchup for the Knicks
than the Celtics, and I want to I want to
make a similar example to what I use. If you
guys remember after the Lakers Timberwolve series. One of the
things that the Lakers did in the Timberwolve series is
(15:36):
because of their play style with Luka Doncic, they're basically
just picking on switches and running a lot of high
iso right and so as a result, it challenges your
individual defenders, particularly your weaker individual defenders, but it is
not so much a mental challenge. It's not a lot
(15:57):
of ball in player movement. There's not a lot of
like pace and blender to what they're doing. And then
you go into the Minnesota matchup, or you go into
the Golden State matchup with Minnesota, and all of a sudden,
it's like in game one, you could just see it's
like Steph's getting clean looks right away, they're losing Buddy
healed and screening actions. So all of a sudden, there's
just this blender of ball in player movement, and without
(16:20):
Steph Curry, they were holding second half leads in the
games in Golden State, although the talent differential ended up
being too much for them to overcome. But there's a
similar dynamic at play as we head into this next
matchup for the Knicks, in the sense that as the
Knicks deployed a game plan centered around switching with their
five and switching with Jalen Brunson, which I agreed with
(16:42):
was their best game plan for the Celtics in particular,
the Celtics fell into the trap. The purpose of that
game plan is not just to gift Boston favorable matchups.
The purpose of that game plan was to stagnate Boston,
to force them into a bunch of isolation attack while you,
on the other end, have everybody involved, and it can
(17:04):
just lead to kind of a rhythm differential between the
two offenses. And we saw that manifest as the Nicks
pulled away last night. Here's the thing with the Pacers.
You can try switching if you want. They're not going
to stagnate. They attack switching with speed and ball in
player movement. They will still throw the ball to Siakam
(17:24):
on the block. They still will throw the ball to
Turner on the block, but they will get the ball
moving quickly throughout the possession and force you to make
mistakes early in the clock, and then they'll go down
to a deep post up and they'll attack it at
the front of the rim. That's the big difference between
what Siakam and Turner do to your guards and what
Boston does. Boston isolates and faces up from twenty three
(17:50):
feet and might work you down to the elbow, but
they're not trying to back you down into these like
right at the front of the rim type of post ups.
Very often the pace they'll move the ball around and
when they get the favorable switch, they don't pitch the
ball to Siakam at the top of the key. Siakam
seals that dude on the block and they throw it
(18:11):
down and he's just turning over his left shoulder for
easy shit right off the glass. That's what Miles Turner's
doing too. They beat switches right at the front of
the rim, and they can beat switching with their ball
and player movement. That doesn't matter what your half court
scheme is. If they're going to push the ball up
the floor, with pace and get into action early and
get you into rotation before you're ever set to begin
(18:33):
the possession. This Pacers team is a fundamentally different offensive
challenge than what the Boston Celtics do. We all know
what the Celtics can do when they get going with
their driving kick. There's a certain level of talent that
they have in their three point shooting all over the floor.
The Pacers bring that too, but they never stagnate. That's
(18:54):
the big difference. And all I could think about last
night after the Knicks one and everyone celebrating the Knicks
is I'm just worried about a guy like Carl Anthony
Towns just being put into a million actions at the
top of the key, and not like being asked to
just guard Tyre's Halliburton and switches in space, but rather
(19:15):
Tyre's Haliburton getting there and then just driving right by
Carl Anthony Towns and swing and pass past pass and
driving kick and another wide open three. Like there's a
pace and it flow to what the Pacers do that
never runs out of steam. You want to know why
they come back again tonight after going down by nineteen
in the early second quarter, because it never stops. The
ball pressure never stops. The pace never stops. The relentless
(19:38):
hunting of advantages never stops, the relentless hunting of mismatches
never stops. They just keep coming at you. And so
I don't think there's like a game plan trick to
slowing down the pacers other than you just have to
be super attentive and you've got to try to keep
the ball in front of you, and you've got to
close out the shooters. So many of these Caves players
(20:01):
are not as slow as you'd think. There's a couple guys,
like I thought DeAndre Hunter in particular, looked stuck in
the mud often throughout the series. But most of it
is just simple decision making from Cleveland, like your natural
tendency to sink into the elbow in an off ball
situation while not being attentive. And it's just a quick
swing pass, and there's Aaron E. Smith going right past
(20:24):
you to the front of the rim, or running right
past you for an offensive rebound or obi topping you
want you turn your head for a second, he's cutting
along that baseline. And so it's like I, like I said,
for the U, this like the Timberwolves matchup. I thought
that the Celtics series was a test of Jalen Brunson
(20:44):
in Karl Anthony Town's individual defensive talent on An Island,
and Kat was able to get some stops against Tatum
late in Game four. Brunson was able to get stops
Layton Game one against Tatum, Layight in Game two against
Jalen Brown, in the post against Horford at various points
in time. This is gonna be more of a mental challenge.
The idea of contending with the Pacers and their flow
(21:08):
is going to be a test up here for your
ability to pay attention. And I think that's gonna be
a super fascinating series. Obviously, the Celtics series isn't isn't
even over yet, but with the news with Jason Tatum's
achilles tear, I would just be stunned if Boston won
three in a row against the Knicks. So I do
think we're gonna end up getting Nicks Pacers in that
third round series. On the Cavs front, you know, it
(21:32):
feels like it's very difficult for me to get a
good feel for just how big their issues are. There
are obvious issues that you can't just explain away with injuries.
Jared Allen got his ass kicked, and that's unfortunate because
he got his ass kicked by Mitchell Robinson and Isaiah
(21:52):
Hartenstein a couple years ago. Like, there is a couple
of examples of Jared Allen being a very good regular
season center who runs into these settings and suddenly is
not as impactful, not as physical as he needs to be.
His advantages running the floor in transition go away because
everyone's running. DeAndre Hunter, I thought, had a brutal series
(22:15):
on both ends of the floor. He was one of
their biggest defensive problems. Ty Jerome struggles. Those aren't associated
with injury. He just got his ass handed to him
in the series on both ends of the floor. Next
Strus goes for zero points in an elimination game. Too
many calves didn't play well. So there's a certain amount
of this that is not explainable by injuries. But Darius Garland,
(22:40):
I want to kind of like remind you guys of
what I said when we were talking about Julius Randall.
Rhythm is a fickle thing, especially for certain players. Yeah,
Kevin Durant can have another ankle injury that keeps him
out for five weeks and he can just walk on
to an NBA court and score twenty seven points on
(23:02):
thirteen shots. He's Kevin Durant. He's the exception. Take him
and remove him from the discussion. It's it's just it's
entirely irrelevant to the majority of basketball players in the world.
For the most, for most basketball players, if you spend
any sort of extended time away from the game, it
takes a long time to get that rhythm back. There's
(23:25):
a conditioning element, there's a leg strength element, there's kind
of like a flow element. Like those of you guys
who play will understand you on vacation and you come
back and play pick up or you play in your
men's league, Like the handle goes away, the jump shot
goes away, Like there are a lot of different things
that take that takes steps to recover to your full rhythm.
(23:45):
Like there's making shots in practice, making shots against a
defender in like a one on one situation, making shots
in a real game, like a very different type of
especially in an NBA playoff game, with the level of
intensity that is there. And so I thought, Darius Garland,
it kind of reminded me of some of Julius Randall's
early playoff runs where he's just clearly out of rhythm.
(24:08):
His jumper was off, he didn't look as explosive as
he usually looks. Some of the reeds he was missing,
Like Darius. The offense functioned well when he was on
the floor. The Cavs logged about a one to twenty
seven offensive rating when he was on the floor. But overall,
just the not having Garland be the type of player
that we know he's capable of being is like kind
of having the headcut off the snake. In a lot
(24:30):
of ways, I thought Cleveland in a lot of ways
kind of defaulted to a lot more heavy dose Downovan Mitchell.
They got away from going to the rim tonight because
I think Indiana wore them down a little bit. I
think it's a combination of things. I think there are
obvious limitations for this Cavs team that got exposed in
this playoff run, but losing basically the heart and soul
of your offense and then putting him out there as
(24:51):
a shell of himself, I think that that also kind
of exacerbated the issues. There's never really any sustained stretch
in the series where I thought they looked like the calves,
the calves that I watched in the regular season, And
so I think it's important as you head into this
offseason to acknowledge that some of this is not explainable
by injuries, and you need to look at some specific
(25:14):
ways to kind of reconfigure the roster, Like if you're
gonna end up playing small with Evan Mobley at center
for large portions of the game, or if you're going
to close with Jared Allen and Jared Allen's going to
get just stuffed in a bag by Miles Turner, Like
there's a certain amount of like you got to start
looking at that wing position and trying to get a
(25:35):
better version of like what DeAndre Hunter is, you know
what Dan Wade is. They need something that provides more
juice for them in these playoff lineups because too many
of the guys that worked for them in the regular
season did not work for them in this series. We'll
do a lot more digging into that as we get
into the offseason. My whole frame of mind is very
much focused on the postseason right now, and we'll take
(25:56):
a lot more look at that when we get into
June in July, but obviously disappointing end of the season
for the Calves and a lot of introspection that they've
got ahead of them as we head into this summer.
All Right, we're gonna have Jackson. Come on, We're gonna
take a solid ten minutes or so questions before we
head over to playback.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Let's do it.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
We're gonna start with go back to the Denver Okase
series first and then take some Cavs questions. Why does
Denver keep loading up on SGA at the top of
the key and leaving that corner swing three wide open?
Speaker 2 (26:26):
There are certain realities with Denver's defense from the standpoint
of personnel. I mean, like as look at the late
game lineup, like you have Michael Porter Junior out there,
you have nicolea Jokic out there, you have Jamal Murray
out there, and these have been the same realities for
Denver's defense forever. But their defense is very much based
on we can't stop these guys by playing straight up basketball,
(26:49):
so we need to find a way to tilt things
towards their higher variance options. And those are just their
higher variance options. Jwa or Mail the three on the
right wing late in the game before he made the
big one in the left corner. Ludrt missed a boatload
of threes in this series, Like a lot of guys
miss threes at various points in this series, and so
(27:11):
Denver's just taking a calculated risk. They're like, we if
we can play Shay into a rough night, then we
have the opportunity to cause the entire Thunder offense to
basically look at each other like what are we gonna do,
Like who's gonna take the shot, who's going to have
the flow, who's gonna have the confidence to go here?
And and like like I don't really see an option.
(27:33):
Like if you guys think of it like this, you
start covering those shooters, that's where you're just gonna get
driven to pieces by Shay and Jadubb and those dudes
will just be living at the front of the rim
the entire series. And so I think I think it
honestly was probably the best way to do it. I mean,
if we talked about Oklahoma City during the regular season,
we always talked about loading up the strong side, conceding
(27:54):
those you know, kind of like lesser role player, moderately
contested high pressure threes, and it didn't work, and you
you know, it's it's playing the results. At that point,
I think if you I think, if you guard lou
Dort close, if you guard Cruso close, if you guard
all these guys close off ball, I think you just
(28:15):
get cut to pieces in the lane.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Yeah, I mean you can play the results both ways.
To night's game, they had some open swing threes and
Shay also had a nasty ISO step back mid range
and one, and he had a nasty spin move where
he got to the room. If you guarding him, if
you're just letting him iso straight up with no help
every time, not gonna score every time. But he's he's
came very very He's plenty capable. It's his best skill isoing.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
For the record too, Denver actually generated twenty three unguarded
jump shots tonight. Catch and shoot jump shots in Oklahoma
City only generated fifteen, so Denver was actually getting better looks.
But to the point that we were just discussing, Denver
got zero point nine to one points per unguarded catch
and shooting. Okay, so you got one point two Like
this has been a kind of a recurring theme for
(28:58):
all the discussion about shooting results. Okay, so he's outshot
Denver in this series, like Denver's offense has bogged down
because none of their dudes are making shots.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
Speaking of none o their dudes' making shots. Question about
Michael Porter Jr. Michael Porter Junior was pretty bad tonight.
But if you're gonna sit him in crunch time, who
would you play instead? Considering Westbroo's jumper has also gone cold.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
I would have gone with Peyton Watson because at the
very least he's gonna give you defense and rebounding and
a guy that you can put on the ball against
Shay or against Jay Dubb. Like, I just didn't see
the point. I didn't really understand the upside, like what
like on my first initial reaction with Jokich was like,
why'd you even pass the ball to him there? On
that one at the top of the key, the one
(29:39):
right after Jay Dubb hit his three to put him
up three. My second take was like why is he
even out there? It was like I was like, in
real time, I'm just like I feel like that's not
the right option because Michael Porter just had no confidence
in his jump shot at all, and Peyton Watson wasn't
hitting either, but at the very least you can count
(30:00):
on him to do some other things.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
And also, yeah, and Peyton Watson is less likely to
take a dumb shot. He's probably less likely to make
a hard one, but he's also less likely to take
a dumb one.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Very good point. In this postseason run on unguarded catch
and shoot jump shots, Michael Porter Junior is shooting six
for twenty, just zero point nine points per.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
That's tough, all right. Now, one more question about this series.
The thunder have one crunch time each of the last
two games. Do you think that's more of a statement
about their growth or the Nuggets running out of gas?
Speaker 2 (30:32):
It's both, although not tonight. I mean, Jokic made Jokicic
made enough shots for his entire team crunch time tonight,
Like he here's a single man, like a single handed
h just crunch time wrecking ball tonight. But uh I,
I mean, we saw this on playback when we watched
Game four, and we'll see it tonight when we watch
down the stretch. But like credit to Oklahoma City. There
(30:55):
they are two stars made plays in crunch time when
they could make them in the other parts of the game.
So like they like they'll credit those guys like those
dudes just made plays like they got into the lane.
I think I think there's a wear and tear element
with Denver's defense to wear like a couple of those
late layups, like specifically the spin movie out on Christian
Brown where he just went right back to the rim.
(31:18):
Jokich was like just not even ready for it, and
he just kind of conceded the layup and Christian Brown
was on his heels that entire possession that's part of
like that onslaught and then like kind of letting go
of the rope because they just wear you down for sure.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Let's take a couple about the other series and maybe
some general NBA questions. Would you run it back with
the calv next year with Tatum out in the East
if the Honest is changed to the West again. I
mean not that the Bucks were contender this year, but
the East is theoretically getting even easier next year. So
despite losing in the second round, what are you running back?
Will you try to make some big structural changes?
Speaker 2 (31:53):
I would seriously start canvassing the market surrounding Jared Allen
and Darius Garland and the case there is this there
are some realities to the Darius Garland entry point thing.
He did get attacked quite a bit, including the Aaron
(32:14):
Andrew Nemhard and one in Crunch Times the night that
ended up being a big play where he just kind
of backed him down along the baseline. I discussed the
offensive rating. The Cavs logged like a one to twenty
seven offensive rating with Darius Garland on the floor. What
do you think their defensive rating was with Darius Garland
on the floor. It was one twenty seven. So so
the point is is they got lit on fire on
(32:35):
the other end of the floor. Jared Allen to me,
I will have this image burned in my brain of
him getting his ass kicked in the playoffs these last
few years as like a real problem. I think that
there's I think they need to be hunting down more big,
strong forwards that can dribble, shoot, pass and defend. And
so if you have the ability to, like Donovan Mitchell
(32:57):
has clearly demonstrated that he's one of those guys. And
Evan Mobley I think is continuing to progress on like
a year by year basis in a way that I
think is tangible and real and and useful for their
development in the future. But I think I think you
got to look at that playoff rotation. I like Max Strews.
I think Max, like he had a rough game tonight,
but I thought he was really good for the most
(33:18):
part in this postseason run. And he's like a good
defender and a guy that just kind of is in
the right place at the right time all the time.
Like he's one of those guys that I would I
would stick with, But there I would I would like,
I would start looking around for a team. But what
are some fun Garland teams? Just for good question.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Orlando is a great one, Orlando's a great one.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Houston would be a fun Garland team. I like him
anchored by freaky athleticism would be fascinating, especially as a
guy that could just kind of set him up with advantages.
But that the thing with Darius Garland. It's not even
that I don't believe in him when he's healthy, because
I want to be clear, Like I said this on
the show a bunch of times, he was one of
my favorite players to watch this year. He's so much fun.
(34:01):
When he was healthy. He was like cutting like a
knife through butter when he would drive through the lane
around it, like it felt like he could beat anybody
he wanted off the dribble and get to any spot
on the floor that he wanted to. But the whole
thing that everyone was talking about all year is like,
the reason why Darius is doing this, it's not that
he just got better, it's because he's healthy, and then
(34:21):
he got he broke down at the end of the year,
and so like a small guard that can't stay healthy,
that has his defensive limitations, Like that's where I get
to the point where I start to worry about him
as a foundational piece. But I the thing that concerns
me is Cavs fans like love that dude, and for
good reason. But there are just some realities to playoff basketball,
(34:45):
Like if there hasn't been a giant like flashing red
light to tell you guys that the playoffs are a
different sport, Like we came this close tonight to Denver
taking a three to two lead and putting the third
sixty win team because we had three sixty wins teams
this year. One of them's already gone, the second one's
about to be gone, and the third one was on
the ropes tonight until they finally pulled out a game late,
(35:08):
and it's still could go either way here the rest
of the series. And so whatever your net rate, Like
all the net rating talk and the regular season, all
the focus on regular season dominance, it comes down to
who can thrive in this sport, which is playoff NBA basketball,
which is a different sport, and who has the versatility
to make it through four rounds by adjusting to different opponents,
(35:29):
Like it has never been more like that in NBA history.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
For sure. The next question, the Pacers have now gone
to the conference finals in back to that years despite
not having a top ten player. Do you think that
their team is an example of a different style of
team building that's possible in the NBA? It's historically very
much been if you're going to advance deep into the playoffs,
you need a high, high, high level, top ten player
who's got that kind of scoring ability. And they seem
(35:53):
to be bucking the trend a little bit.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Jackson is tyres Helibert in a top ten player? I think,
oh man, that is a like this is we're gonna
have fun.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
This is top ten player Jesus Christ, to be honest,
A question that hadn't even crossed my mind when I
read the question. But now that you say it, I
mean maybe I don't know.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
It's not a points per game, certainly not, I mean
obviously not for him, Like I, I don't like. Tyree's
to me is an offensive engine. He's closer to like
the Steph Jokic ilk than he is too like that.
Like guys, here's here's some basic stats for you so
that we can put away the idea of of points
(36:34):
per game with Tyre's Halliburton. He's run one hundred and
fifty two ball screens in the postseason, including passes, and
he's generating one point zero seven points per possession. He's
run forty nine ISOs, most of them against switches. He's
generated fifty nine points. That's one point two zero points
per possession. He's been a super reliable shot creator in
(36:55):
this postseason run. Like like I, it's so much deeper
than putting shots at putting individual shot making on the
table like he is, like it is such a it
is such a half court surgery sport. And he just
keeps his offense in rhythm consistently. He's had the clut
shot making late. I'm not saying he's a top ten player.
(37:19):
But when we when we discussed this summer, I wouldn't
be surprised if he landed at like nine, ten, eleven,
twelve in that range. And we'll see, we'll talk about
it more this summer. To the point of the question, though,
like there's been all this debate about, you know, the
stars versus the depth, and I've given my two cents
(37:41):
in terms of, like me still feeling like stars are
determining outcomes in many cases. But it is both, and
it's always been both. Depth is probably a little more
relevant now just because a pace there's more possessions of
every game, the games are more intense, there's more ground coverage,
there's more physical wear and tear, so all that's fair,
but there's no doubt that it takes both. You need
(38:05):
to have a great player at the head, a great
number two, and you need to have a lot of
talent down the roster. And if we go back in
NBA history, Boston wasn't just the top five guys. They
had six starting caliber players and then Sam Houser was
legit and Peyton Pritchard was legit. You go back to
the previous year with Denver, it was Bruce Brown like
(38:27):
they had they had like six starters that they could
legitimately trust and they could, oh, this is not in
a Michael Porter Junior game. We're gonna lean into Bruce
Brown more in this particular game. You go back to
twenty two with the Warriors, it was Jordan Poole having
the success that he had off of the bench, and
(38:47):
what's his name, the guy that the wing who always
gets hurt auto Porter Junior the Warriors, the Warriors capturing
a season of useful auto Porter Junior play twenty twenty
one with the Bucks. You look at you know, PJ.
Tucker as a bench weapon. You go to the Lakers
and it's Rajon Rondo and Kyle Kuzma coming off the bench.
(39:08):
You go back to twenty nineteen. We can go down
the line, like every NBA champion has had like six
or seven awesome players. There are no examples that I
can think of where there was a superstar and a
bunch of bums who won the title. That doesn't happen.
That doesn't happen. Guys, like you need superstars and you
need depth, like like or if you're the Celtics last year,
(39:31):
you can have two near superstars and five thirty million
dollar players, but like you win championships with talent. That
has always been the case. The only thing we see
at the highest levels is two really talented teams. Where
sometimes there's a team that's a little bit more talented,
but this team overcomes it because they play a better
brand of basketball, or they have a few role players
(39:53):
that get hot, or a star out plays the other star.
But ultimately it's the super talented teams at the top
that are competing every year. It's not bums like you need,
you need both. And this Pacers team, everyone's gotten better.
We've talked about it. Turner is better, He's beaten switches
at a super high level now, Siakam had his is
coming on at the right time. The Smith and Nemhart
(40:14):
have both gotten better each of the last couple of years.
Tyres Halliburn's the best he's looked since the start of
last year. Ben Mathern has become a really useful off
the bench weapon for them. TJ McConnell's one of the
top four or five backup guards in the league. They're talented,
as is every great team that ever makes deep playoff
runs in NBA history.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Hundred percent. Even that's true even of even of some
teams that we think of as top heavy, like the
those you know, Championship era Calves and Warriors teams like
Sean Lemingston is coming off the bench super super useful
like that. Both of these teams have. Richard Jefferson was
massive for the Caps in that series, both channing both
teams even the best that most teams that we think
(40:51):
of as particularly top heavy, you have a lot of
depth as well. One more question then we'll go over
to playback. This is not about either of these two
series today. Assuming the Warriors lose to the t Wolves,
should they try to build around their big three in
the off season, Steph Jimmy Draymond or see if there's
actually any way to pursue a major talent upgrade like Yannis,
And just for fairness for the hypothetical, I'm gonna say
(41:12):
building around their big three, the option A includes getting
Cam Johnson and an option be you know, is honest,
because if it's just build around those three guys generally
versus Jannis, the entriest feel like, obviously honest.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
You call Yannis, this is what you do? You Steph
Starts blowing up Jannis's phone and asking him to leverage
things behind the scenes. It's not gonna work because like
the Bucks brass are gonna look at Youiannis in the
face and be like, dude, I'm not gonna turn down
seven first round draft picks. Like I don't know what
to tell you. But you make the call, You do
your deal due diligence. You have Steph call Jannis, you
(41:47):
have your front office call the Bucks front office. You
explore everything there, and you put together the best possible
offer that you can. But I mean, ultimately, like even
with the Yannis thing, if you get Yannis and it
complete guts you of any depth, like because like why
would Milwaukee want, you know, Jimmy Butler for instance, Like
you're gonna have to You're gonna have to find a
(42:08):
way to justify that deal with asset compensation. And so
it's worth a call. It's just unlikely. And then I
start to think of it from the perspective of the
Cam Johnson piece, and it's like, would you rather have
Steph cam Johnson, Jimmy Butler and Draymond or Steph Giannis
and Draymond. You obviously take Giannis, but like it's the
(42:29):
Steph cam Johnson, Jimmy Butler Draymond is still a really
cool like upgrade that accentuates this specific areas that they
need help in. And I think that team can compete
for a championship. So it's not a bad fallback option,
if that makes sense. You're not holding any delusions of
(42:50):
grandeur that they're gonna get young y. Sorry, I don't
think so.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
I think it. I think it's a very it's one
of the more fun two man pairings that we haven't
seen before in the NBA. Stepan, I mean, Steph with
a lot of players becomes the most fun too man team,
but stephanianis is particularly fun. But no, I don't I
don't see I don't see it that.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
Yeah, it's just there, and it like the three buyers
at the top of the league just have so much
to offer that it's just it's going to be extremely
difficult to compete there. I mean, especially now that the
Spurs have they can dangle the number two overall pick,
which is arguably a more valuable asset than anything that
the Golden State Warriors have access to. All right, guys,
it's all we have for YouTube tonight. We're heading over
to playback. We'll see you guys there in just a
(43:29):
couple of minutes. Again, it's playback dot TV slash Hoops tonight.
We'll see you guys there in a couple of minutes.
What's so, guys? As always, I appreciate you for listening
to and supporting Oops tonight. They would actually be really
helpful for us if you guys would take a second
and leave a rating and a review. As always, I
appreciate you guys supporting us, but if you could take
a minute to do that, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
The volume
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
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All right, welcome to hoops tonight. You're at the volume
heavy Tuesday, Buddy hop ball. If you guys are having
a great week. Another fantastic game from this OKC Denver
series that has given us plenty of great basketball here
in the second round and the Pacers close out the
Cleveland Cavaliers earlier today. We're gonna be breaking down both
of those games from the perspective of both teams, and
then we'll take about ten to fifteen minutes of questions
(02:19):
at the tail end of the show. When we are
done here tonight, we'll be heading over to playback again
that's playback dot tv slash Hoops Tonight, or we'll be
taking questions, taking callers, hanging out watching some film, just
having some fun talking hoops for an extra forty five
minutes to an hour or so after we finish here
live on YouTube, you guys know the Joe before we
get started, to subscribe to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channels.
(02:40):
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doing great work on our social media feeds Twitter, Instagram, Facebook,
Make sure you guys follow us there. In the last
but not least, keep dropping mail back questions in the
chat so we can get to them in our questions
(03:00):
at the tail end of the show. All right, let's
talk some basketball. So you know, there's been a pretty
consistent theme over the last couple of games. The thunder
Stars have actually struggled to create quality shots for the
most part over the course of the last two games,
but in both games they've been able to make plays late.
Those of you guys who hung out with us on
(03:21):
playback on Sunday night or Sunday afternoon, we went over
some of that footage and you'll see that a couple
of big driving buckets from Shay and from JDub, a
big right shoulder fade from Shay out of that five
second call they forced on the baseline. And so even
though those guys struggled in large part, they were able
to make big plays late to put the game away. Similarly, tonight,
(03:44):
same sort of thing. JDub and Shay both struggling throughout
the game. JDub hits a huge three on a kickout
off of a double team kind of like swing swing
sequence where he gets a wide open three on the
left wing. He had just airmailed one from the right
wing a few possessions earlier, and just confidently steps in
and knocks down the big one late Shay, that huge
(04:04):
driving spin move bucket, the and one on Jamal Murray
around the left elbow, the step back three over Christian Brown,
and the left wing, the driving lob Isaiah Hartenstein. The
plays were made late to put the game away. But
the question is, how is it that they were in
a position with their stars not playing very well to
(04:25):
win a game like that down the stretch against a
Denver Nuggets offense that is one of the greatest offenses
that we've seen in recent NBA history. I was going
over with Jackson the numbers from the series. The Nuggets
only get one hundred and five points tonight, despite the
fact that Jokic goes for forty four, that they get
(04:45):
sixty two out of Jokich and Murray in the game.
The Nuggets only got eighty seven in Game four. They
only got one hundred and four in Game three. They
only got one hundred and six in Game two. Since
that Game one explosion where they went for one hundred
and twenty one points, they haven't been able to have
any sort of sustained offensive success. And that's because the
(05:05):
real star of the Oklahoma City Thunder is their defense.
Their defense keeps them in these games long enough for
their younger stars to work through their lumps and to
find the ability to make a few plays late. It
buys them all of this margin for air. And even
though they lost control of Yokic tonight, they've had a
great deal of success with him in this series by
(05:27):
overplaying his right hand with Isaiah Hartenstein, which is forcing
Jokic into some really difficult finishing positions where he's missing
shots that he usually makes. You know, they're posting chet
on the backside to help. Anytime Jokic goes towards the rim,
they're doubling him on the baseline side. Every single time
he tries to post up, He's They've had extended success
(05:47):
against Denver's defense against Denver's offense, and in tonight's game,
even though Jokic had it going, they got control of
Jamal Murray late and no one else on the roster
was able to do any sort of substantial damage to
them in this game. Their defense, through the incessant pressure
and wearing you down and getting you to miss shots
like Michael Porter Junior is oh for fourteen from three
(06:10):
in the last three games. You want to know why
he's oh for fourteen from three in the last three games.
It's because his legs are cooked. His legs are cooked
from contending with this team. Yes, the shoulder injury plays
a role, but his right hand he can follow through
and shoot this shot. He can't even get it over
the front of the rim. As his last two threes
were pitifully short. Most of them have been pitifully short.
(06:30):
They're wearing them down. Jamal Murray misses another wide open
three out of the right corner late in the game.
There is a cumulative physical wear and tear factor, and
they've been able to walk Denver down. At the tail
end of these games. Denver was up to to one
in the series, led by eight in the fourth quarter
of Game four, led by nine in the fourth quarter
of Game five. In Oklahoma City is up three to
(06:52):
two in this series, and it's because their defense has
managed to keep things close and because their stars have
been able to make plays late in the game, even
though they've struggled in the meat and potatoes of the game. Obviously,
a huge part in this was lou Dart lou Dort,
excuse me, kind of getting out of his shooting slump
in a big way in that fourth quarter. Nicole Jokic
has basically been conceding shots to him whenever he can,
(07:15):
and to Dort's credit, he just kept taking them to
the point where I'm sure there were some Oklahoma City
fans while he was taking them that weren't necessarily thrilled
with the shots, but they went in. He had his moment,
ran back to the to the bench screaming that I'm back,
and he is because he needed every They needed every
single one of those buckets. That's what he raced that
lead that forced it into a crunch time shot making contest,
(07:38):
and Jokic was there. Jokicic went blow for blow with them,
hit one of those absurd, somber shuffle shots at the
top of the key. That was one of the crazier
shots I've seen Yokic hit in his career, especially when
you factor in time in place I've seen him or
time in score, I should say I've seen him hit
that shot before, but like usually, like just at the
end of the quarter, at the end of the shot clock.
For him to tie the game with less than two
(07:59):
minutes left with one of those against a great contest
at the top of the key. You overcame a incredible
Yokic performance that was every bit as good as the
one that we saw in Game one of this series.
And now the thunder up three too, And you know
what happens next is gonna be interesting. Because I talked
after Game four, like I thought Denver blew their chance
(08:21):
to win the series. Their offense was in such a
they were so down in the mud that I didn't
see anything that they had going for them that would
manifest in the ability to win on the road in
Oklahoma City, which would make it very difficult for them
to win this series. Right, Well, there's some encouraging stuff
out of that. So in a weird way, I came
out of Game four thinking this series is over, Oklahoma
(08:44):
City's gonna get it. Now, I still feel like Denver's
got a legitimate chance. Jokic has regained his mojo after
three straight awful games by his standards, and has gotten
back to having the touch on the three point shot,
having the touch on the short range shot, making having
the kind of just like aura and presence that he
(09:05):
brings down the stretch of these games. That is back.
Jamal Murray had his highest volume scoring game of the series,
although not necessarily the most efficient one. He took twenty
seven shots tonight, but Jamal Murray started to get some
things going. There are some things that Denver has going
in terms of their two man game now that gives
them a puncher's chance. I think they have a legitimate
(09:25):
chance to go home and win Game six. And then
after what we've seen tonight, we would all be foolish
to count out NICOLEA Jokicic in a Game seven on
the road in Oklahoma City. That said, I picked Oklahoma
City in seven before the series. This series is kind
of manifested with some of those things in terms of
the way Denver has been able to bog down Oklahoma
City's defense or offense excuse me, and Jokich has been
(09:47):
able to make plays late in games to steal games.
But I still think Oklahoma City is gonna end up
closing this thing out in seven is my best guess
at this point in time.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
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Speaker 2 (10:32):
All right, we're going to talk a little Pacers Caps,
and then we'll get into our mailbag for a little
bit before we get out of here and head over
to playback. So, Pacers Caps. The Cavs jumped up to
a nineteen point lead early in the second quarter. Donovan
Mitchell and Evan Mobley combined for twenty three points in
the first quarter. They defended well, it looks kind of
similar to what happening Game four, where the home team
(10:53):
is just kind of taking control immediately out the gates.
I was complaining to Jackson because I hate playoff series
where the teams just trade off blowouts. It's like somebody
just take a stand and try to win a game
after taking a little bit of a run early. And
that was what the Pacers did, because if you guys
remember in Game four, the Pacers slammed the door shut
(11:15):
with a seventeen to oher run right before the half
that put the game completely out of reach, and all
of a sudden, the Calves were in no position to
even amount even the asseemblance of a comeback. I mean,
they outscored the Pacers by twenty one in the second
half and still lost by twenty right, but the Calves
were unable to make a similar type of run tonight.
In fact, the Pacers made a big second quarter run
(11:38):
that regained a presence in the game that they then
rode to a big lead in the second half. Every
time the Calves made a run, Tyre's Halliburton had a response.
He's the guy who ignited the run right before the
half that brought the game back within reach. He hit
an assortment of pull up threes versus different pick and
roll coverages. He hit one over Jared Allen in a switch,
he hit one over Jared Allen and a dropped coverage
(11:59):
from way out damn near by. The logo just got
a heater. They're shooting the ball. That brought them back
into the game. And then the Cavs did end up
making another run in the fourth quarter that cut the
lead down to one off of a couple of back
to back threes from Donovan Mitchell and Tyres Haliburton slammed
the door shot on that too. He ran a simple
pick and pop off of a big offensive rebound for
(12:20):
Miles Turner and hit Andrew Nemhard on the left wing,
who had a three. Ty Jerome goes down and decides
it's his time, even though it hasn't been his time
in that entire series, so I'm not sure what he
was thinking, but ran in there and tried to take
some floater and Tyres Haliburton just beautiful rear view contests,
swatted it from behind, got the rebound, went down the
(12:40):
other way and got an end one and basically ended
the series and ended the Cleveland Cavaliers season. Now here's
the thing, Tyree's He may not have had the statistical
impact in this series that Donovan Mitchell had, but I
thought he dominated every pivotal stretch of the series. He
goes for twenty two points and thirteen and a wire
(13:00):
to wire pacers just kind of like just demonstrate to
everybody what makes them so good in Game one. Then
he hits the game winner and two driving layups in
crunch time of Game two. Then he goes for thirty one,
six and eight Tonight dominates every pivotal stretch of this
close out game five. Aliburn's just having a very special
(13:23):
playoff run, and I'm really really excited to see what
it looks like in that next round. I want to
shout out a couple other pacers before we look forward.
Miles Turner, I thought he whooped Jared Allen's ass in
this series on both ends of the floor. Scored in
double figures. Every game caused all sorts of problems for
him on the roll where he was missing some shots
that he usually makes killed him on the glass. Had
(13:45):
that critical offensive rebound again tonight after that miss, Jared
Allen boxes him out to one point. Game calves, get
a rebound and go down and score. We might be
heading to Indiana for a game six, but he just
throws Jared Allen out of the way like a rag doll,
gets the offensive rebound swing swing. Next thing you know,
it's that Tyres Alibert Andrew nemhard two band game that
(14:07):
ends in the three that puts him back up by four.
His play finishing the picking pop threes, the short roll,
jump shots around the elbow, beating switches. In this postseason run,
he's shot out of the post on seventeen different possessions
and he's scored nineteen points as a shooter. So he's
routinely been a high value option for them. Every single
(14:29):
time he catches a guard and a switch in ball screens.
He's been excellent. Siakam was consistently good in the series,
but put up his two biggest scoring games to close
the deal. Andrew Aaroni Smith could make a three tonight,
but he had a lot of really high level scoring
moves in the mid range. Andrew nemhard again doing the
job on both ends of the floor, hitting that huge
shot late. They're just the Pacers are just hitting their
peak on both ends of the floor at the perfect time.
(14:53):
I thought their defense was excellent again tonight. They held
the Cavs to seventy four points over the final three
quarters of this game. Even Halliburton I thought was good
on defense, getting deflections in his head and recovers with
high hands. The rear view contest on Ty Jerome was
a huge play late. Like he's active, he's competing, He's
got a shortcomings. He can get out of position. Obviously
he's a smaller slender player on ball, but like he
(15:15):
just competes and does his job on defense. And so
as I look forward to the Knick series, like, I
think this is a very different matchup for the Knicks
than the Celtics, and I want to I want to
make a similar example to what I use. If you
guys remember after the Lakers Timberwolve series. One of the
things that the Lakers did in the Timberwolve series is
(15:36):
because of their play style with Luka Doncic, they're basically
just picking on switches and running a lot of high
iso right and so as a result, it challenges your
individual defenders, particularly your weaker individual defenders, but it is
not so much a mental challenge. It's not a lot
(15:57):
of ball in player movement. There's not a lot of
like pace and blender to what they're doing. And then
you go into the Minnesota matchup, or you go into
the Golden State matchup with Minnesota, and all of a sudden,
it's like in game one, you could just see it's
like Steph's getting clean looks right away, they're losing Buddy
healed and screening actions. So all of a sudden, there's
just this blender of ball in player movement, and without
(16:20):
Steph Curry, they were holding second half leads in the
games in Golden State, although the talent differential ended up
being too much for them to overcome. But there's a
similar dynamic at play as we head into this next
matchup for the Knicks, in the sense that as the
Knicks deployed a game plan centered around switching with their
five and switching with Jalen Brunson, which I agreed with
(16:42):
was their best game plan for the Celtics in particular,
the Celtics fell into the trap. The purpose of that
game plan is not just to gift Boston favorable matchups.
The purpose of that game plan was to stagnate Boston,
to force them into a bunch of isolation attack while you,
on the other end, have everybody involved, and it can
(17:04):
just lead to kind of a rhythm differential between the
two offenses. And we saw that manifest as the Nicks
pulled away last night. Here's the thing with the Pacers.
You can try switching if you want. They're not going
to stagnate. They attack switching with speed and ball in
player movement. They will still throw the ball to Siakam
(17:24):
on the block. They still will throw the ball to
Turner on the block, but they will get the ball
moving quickly throughout the possession and force you to make
mistakes early in the clock, and then they'll go down
to a deep post up and they'll attack it at
the front of the rim. That's the big difference between
what Siakam and Turner do to your guards and what
Boston does. Boston isolates and faces up from twenty three
(17:50):
feet and might work you down to the elbow, but
they're not trying to back you down into these like
right at the front of the rim type of post ups.
Very often the pace they'll move the ball around and
when they get the favorable switch, they don't pitch the
ball to Siakam at the top of the key. Siakam
seals that dude on the block and they throw it
(18:11):
down and he's just turning over his left shoulder for
easy shit right off the glass. That's what Miles Turner's
doing too. They beat switches right at the front of
the rim, and they can beat switching with their ball
and player movement. That doesn't matter what your half court
scheme is. If they're going to push the ball up
the floor, with pace and get into action early and
get you into rotation before you're ever set to begin
(18:33):
the possession. This Pacers team is a fundamentally different offensive
challenge than what the Boston Celtics do. We all know
what the Celtics can do when they get going with
their driving kick. There's a certain level of talent that
they have in their three point shooting all over the floor.
The Pacers bring that too, but they never stagnate. That's
(18:54):
the big difference. And all I could think about last
night after the Knicks one and everyone celebrating the Knicks
is I'm just worried about a guy like Carl Anthony
Towns just being put into a million actions at the
top of the key, and not like being asked to
just guard Tyre's Halliburton and switches in space, but rather
(19:15):
Tyre's Haliburton getting there and then just driving right by
Carl Anthony Towns and swing and pass past pass and
driving kick and another wide open three. Like there's a
pace and it flow to what the Pacers do that
never runs out of steam. You want to know why
they come back again tonight after going down by nineteen
in the early second quarter, because it never stops. The
ball pressure never stops. The pace never stops. The relentless
(19:38):
hunting of advantages never stops, the relentless hunting of mismatches
never stops. They just keep coming at you. And so
I don't think there's like a game plan trick to
slowing down the pacers other than you just have to
be super attentive and you've got to try to keep
the ball in front of you, and you've got to
close out the shooters. So many of these Caves players
(20:01):
are not as slow as you'd think. There's a couple guys,
like I thought DeAndre Hunter in particular, looked stuck in
the mud often throughout the series. But most of it
is just simple decision making from Cleveland, like your natural
tendency to sink into the elbow in an off ball
situation while not being attentive. And it's just a quick
swing pass, and there's Aaron E. Smith going right past
(20:24):
you to the front of the rim, or running right
past you for an offensive rebound or obi topping you
want you turn your head for a second, he's cutting
along that baseline. And so it's like I, like I said,
for the U, this like the Timberwolves matchup. I thought
that the Celtics series was a test of Jalen Brunson
(20:44):
in Karl Anthony Town's individual defensive talent on An Island,
and Kat was able to get some stops against Tatum
late in Game four. Brunson was able to get stops
Layton Game one against Tatum, Layight in Game two against
Jalen Brown, in the post against Horford at various points
in time. This is gonna be more of a mental challenge.
The idea of contending with the Pacers and their flow
(21:08):
is going to be a test up here for your
ability to pay attention. And I think that's gonna be
a super fascinating series. Obviously, the Celtics series isn't isn't
even over yet, but with the news with Jason Tatum's
achilles tear, I would just be stunned if Boston won
three in a row against the Knicks. So I do
think we're gonna end up getting Nicks Pacers in that
third round series. On the Cavs front, you know, it
(21:32):
feels like it's very difficult for me to get a
good feel for just how big their issues are. There
are obvious issues that you can't just explain away with injuries.
Jared Allen got his ass kicked, and that's unfortunate because
he got his ass kicked by Mitchell Robinson and Isaiah
(21:52):
Hartenstein a couple years ago. Like, there is a couple
of examples of Jared Allen being a very good regular
season center who runs into these settings and suddenly is
not as impactful, not as physical as he needs to be.
His advantages running the floor in transition go away because
everyone's running. DeAndre Hunter, I thought, had a brutal series
(22:15):
on both ends of the floor. He was one of
their biggest defensive problems. Ty Jerome struggles. Those aren't associated
with injury. He just got his ass handed to him
in the series on both ends of the floor. Next
Strus goes for zero points in an elimination game. Too
many calves didn't play well. So there's a certain amount
of this that is not explainable by injuries. But Darius Garland,
(22:40):
I want to kind of like remind you guys of
what I said when we were talking about Julius Randall.
Rhythm is a fickle thing, especially for certain players. Yeah,
Kevin Durant can have another ankle injury that keeps him
out for five weeks and he can just walk on
to an NBA court and score twenty seven points on
(23:02):
thirteen shots. He's Kevin Durant. He's the exception. Take him
and remove him from the discussion. It's it's just it's
entirely irrelevant to the majority of basketball players in the world.
For the most, for most basketball players, if you spend
any sort of extended time away from the game, it
takes a long time to get that rhythm back. There's
(23:25):
a conditioning element, there's a leg strength element, there's kind
of like a flow element. Like those of you guys
who play will understand you on vacation and you come
back and play pick up or you play in your
men's league, Like the handle goes away, the jump shot
goes away, Like there are a lot of different things
that take that takes steps to recover to your full rhythm.
(23:45):
Like there's making shots in practice, making shots against a
defender in like a one on one situation, making shots
in a real game, like a very different type of
especially in an NBA playoff game, with the level of
intensity that is there. And so I thought, Darius Garland,
it kind of reminded me of some of Julius Randall's
early playoff runs where he's just clearly out of rhythm.
(24:08):
His jumper was off, he didn't look as explosive as
he usually looks. Some of the reeds he was missing,
Like Darius. The offense functioned well when he was on
the floor. The Cavs logged about a one to twenty
seven offensive rating when he was on the floor. But overall,
just the not having Garland be the type of player
that we know he's capable of being is like kind
of having the headcut off the snake. In a lot
(24:30):
of ways, I thought Cleveland in a lot of ways
kind of defaulted to a lot more heavy dose Downovan Mitchell.
They got away from going to the rim tonight because
I think Indiana wore them down a little bit. I
think it's a combination of things. I think there are
obvious limitations for this Cavs team that got exposed in
this playoff run, but losing basically the heart and soul
of your offense and then putting him out there as
(24:51):
a shell of himself, I think that that also kind
of exacerbated the issues. There's never really any sustained stretch
in the series where I thought they looked like the calves,
the calves that I watched in the regular season, And
so I think it's important as you head into this
offseason to acknowledge that some of this is not explainable
by injuries, and you need to look at some specific
(25:14):
ways to kind of reconfigure the roster, Like if you're
gonna end up playing small with Evan Mobley at center
for large portions of the game, or if you're going
to close with Jared Allen and Jared Allen's going to
get just stuffed in a bag by Miles Turner, Like
there's a certain amount of like you got to start
looking at that wing position and trying to get a
(25:35):
better version of like what DeAndre Hunter is, you know
what Dan Wade is. They need something that provides more
juice for them in these playoff lineups because too many
of the guys that worked for them in the regular
season did not work for them in this series. We'll
do a lot more digging into that as we get
into the offseason. My whole frame of mind is very
much focused on the postseason right now, and we'll take
(25:56):
a lot more look at that when we get into
June in July, but obviously disappointing end of the season
for the Calves and a lot of introspection that they've
got ahead of them as we head into this summer.
All Right, we're gonna have Jackson. Come on, We're gonna
take a solid ten minutes or so questions before we
head over to playback.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Let's do it.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
We're gonna start with go back to the Denver Okase
series first and then take some Cavs questions. Why does
Denver keep loading up on SGA at the top of
the key and leaving that corner swing three wide open?
Speaker 2 (26:26):
There are certain realities with Denver's defense from the standpoint
of personnel. I mean, like as look at the late
game lineup, like you have Michael Porter Junior out there,
you have nicolea Jokic out there, you have Jamal Murray
out there, and these have been the same realities for
Denver's defense forever. But their defense is very much based
on we can't stop these guys by playing straight up basketball,
(26:49):
so we need to find a way to tilt things
towards their higher variance options. And those are just their
higher variance options. Jwa or Mail the three on the
right wing late in the game before he made the
big one in the left corner. Ludrt missed a boatload
of threes in this series, Like a lot of guys
miss threes at various points in this series, and so
(27:11):
Denver's just taking a calculated risk. They're like, we if
we can play Shay into a rough night, then we
have the opportunity to cause the entire Thunder offense to
basically look at each other like what are we gonna do,
Like who's gonna take the shot, who's going to have
the flow, who's gonna have the confidence to go here?
And and like like I don't really see an option.
(27:33):
Like if you guys think of it like this, you
start covering those shooters, that's where you're just gonna get
driven to pieces by Shay and Jadubb and those dudes
will just be living at the front of the rim
the entire series. And so I think I think it
honestly was probably the best way to do it. I mean,
if we talked about Oklahoma City during the regular season,
we always talked about loading up the strong side, conceding
(27:54):
those you know, kind of like lesser role player, moderately
contested high pressure threes, and it didn't work, and you
you know, it's it's playing the results. At that point,
I think if you I think, if you guard lou
Dort close, if you guard Cruso close, if you guard
all these guys close off ball, I think you just
(28:15):
get cut to pieces in the lane.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Yeah, I mean you can play the results both ways.
To night's game, they had some open swing threes and
Shay also had a nasty ISO step back mid range
and one, and he had a nasty spin move where
he got to the room. If you guarding him, if
you're just letting him iso straight up with no help
every time, not gonna score every time. But he's he's
came very very He's plenty capable. It's his best skill isoing.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
For the record too, Denver actually generated twenty three unguarded
jump shots tonight. Catch and shoot jump shots in Oklahoma
City only generated fifteen, so Denver was actually getting better looks.
But to the point that we were just discussing, Denver
got zero point nine to one points per unguarded catch
and shooting. Okay, so you got one point two Like
this has been a kind of a recurring theme for
(28:58):
all the discussion about shooting results. Okay, so he's outshot
Denver in this series, like Denver's offense has bogged down
because none of their dudes are making shots.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
Speaking of none o their dudes' making shots. Question about
Michael Porter Jr. Michael Porter Junior was pretty bad tonight.
But if you're gonna sit him in crunch time, who
would you play instead? Considering Westbroo's jumper has also gone cold.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
I would have gone with Peyton Watson because at the
very least he's gonna give you defense and rebounding and
a guy that you can put on the ball against
Shay or against Jay Dubb. Like, I just didn't see
the point. I didn't really understand the upside, like what
like on my first initial reaction with Jokich was like,
why'd you even pass the ball to him there? On
that one at the top of the key, the one
(29:39):
right after Jay Dubb hit his three to put him
up three. My second take was like why is he
even out there? It was like I was like, in
real time, I'm just like I feel like that's not
the right option because Michael Porter just had no confidence
in his jump shot at all, and Peyton Watson wasn't
hitting either, but at the very least you can count
(30:00):
on him to do some other things.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
And also, yeah, and Peyton Watson is less likely to
take a dumb shot. He's probably less likely to make
a hard one, but he's also less likely to take
a dumb one.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Very good point. In this postseason run on unguarded catch
and shoot jump shots, Michael Porter Junior is shooting six
for twenty, just zero point nine points per.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
That's tough, all right. Now, one more question about this series.
The thunder have one crunch time each of the last
two games. Do you think that's more of a statement
about their growth or the Nuggets running out of gas?
Speaker 2 (30:32):
It's both, although not tonight. I mean, Jokic made Jokicic
made enough shots for his entire team crunch time tonight,
Like he here's a single man, like a single handed
h just crunch time wrecking ball tonight. But uh I,
I mean, we saw this on playback when we watched
Game four, and we'll see it tonight when we watch
down the stretch. But like credit to Oklahoma City. There
(30:55):
they are two stars made plays in crunch time when
they could make them in the other parts of the game.
So like they like they'll credit those guys like those
dudes just made plays like they got into the lane.
I think I think there's a wear and tear element
with Denver's defense to wear like a couple of those
late layups, like specifically the spin movie out on Christian
Brown where he just went right back to the rim.
(31:18):
Jokich was like just not even ready for it, and
he just kind of conceded the layup and Christian Brown
was on his heels that entire possession that's part of
like that onslaught and then like kind of letting go
of the rope because they just wear you down for sure.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Let's take a couple about the other series and maybe
some general NBA questions. Would you run it back with
the calv next year with Tatum out in the East
if the Honest is changed to the West again. I
mean not that the Bucks were contender this year, but
the East is theoretically getting even easier next year. So
despite losing in the second round, what are you running back?
Will you try to make some big structural changes?
Speaker 2 (31:53):
I would seriously start canvassing the market surrounding Jared Allen
and Darius Garland and the case there is this there
are some realities to the Darius Garland entry point thing.
He did get attacked quite a bit, including the Aaron
(32:14):
Andrew Nemhard and one in Crunch Times the night that
ended up being a big play where he just kind
of backed him down along the baseline. I discussed the
offensive rating. The Cavs logged like a one to twenty
seven offensive rating with Darius Garland on the floor. What
do you think their defensive rating was with Darius Garland
on the floor. It was one twenty seven. So so
the point is is they got lit on fire on
(32:35):
the other end of the floor. Jared Allen to me,
I will have this image burned in my brain of
him getting his ass kicked in the playoffs these last
few years as like a real problem. I think that
there's I think they need to be hunting down more big,
strong forwards that can dribble, shoot, pass and defend. And
so if you have the ability to, like Donovan Mitchell
(32:57):
has clearly demonstrated that he's one of those guys. And
Evan Mobley I think is continuing to progress on like
a year by year basis in a way that I
think is tangible and real and and useful for their
development in the future. But I think I think you
got to look at that playoff rotation. I like Max Strews.
I think Max, like he had a rough game tonight,
but I thought he was really good for the most
(33:18):
part in this postseason run. And he's like a good
defender and a guy that just kind of is in
the right place at the right time all the time.
Like he's one of those guys that I would I
would stick with, But there I would I would like,
I would start looking around for a team. But what
are some fun Garland teams? Just for good question.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Orlando is a great one, Orlando's a great one.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Houston would be a fun Garland team. I like him
anchored by freaky athleticism would be fascinating, especially as a
guy that could just kind of set him up with advantages.
But that the thing with Darius Garland. It's not even
that I don't believe in him when he's healthy, because
I want to be clear, Like I said this on
the show a bunch of times, he was one of
my favorite players to watch this year. He's so much fun.
(34:01):
When he was healthy. He was like cutting like a
knife through butter when he would drive through the lane
around it, like it felt like he could beat anybody
he wanted off the dribble and get to any spot
on the floor that he wanted to. But the whole
thing that everyone was talking about all year is like,
the reason why Darius is doing this, it's not that
he just got better, it's because he's healthy, and then
(34:21):
he got he broke down at the end of the year,
and so like a small guard that can't stay healthy,
that has his defensive limitations, Like that's where I get
to the point where I start to worry about him
as a foundational piece. But I the thing that concerns
me is Cavs fans like love that dude, and for
good reason. But there are just some realities to playoff basketball,
(34:45):
Like if there hasn't been a giant like flashing red
light to tell you guys that the playoffs are a
different sport, Like we came this close tonight to Denver
taking a three to two lead and putting the third
sixty win team because we had three sixty wins teams
this year. One of them's already gone, the second one's
about to be gone, and the third one was on
the ropes tonight until they finally pulled out a game late,
(35:08):
and it's still could go either way here the rest
of the series. And so whatever your net rate, Like
all the net rating talk and the regular season, all
the focus on regular season dominance, it comes down to
who can thrive in this sport, which is playoff NBA basketball,
which is a different sport, and who has the versatility
to make it through four rounds by adjusting to different opponents,
(35:29):
Like it has never been more like that in NBA history.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
For sure. The next question, the Pacers have now gone
to the conference finals in back to that years despite
not having a top ten player. Do you think that
their team is an example of a different style of
team building that's possible in the NBA? It's historically very
much been if you're going to advance deep into the playoffs,
you need a high, high, high level, top ten player
who's got that kind of scoring ability. And they seem
(35:53):
to be bucking the trend a little bit.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Jackson is tyres Helibert in a top ten player? I think,
oh man, that is a like this is we're gonna
have fun.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
This is top ten player Jesus Christ, to be honest,
A question that hadn't even crossed my mind when I
read the question. But now that you say it, I
mean maybe I don't know.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
It's not a points per game, certainly not, I mean
obviously not for him, Like I, I don't like. Tyree's
to me is an offensive engine. He's closer to like
the Steph Jokic ilk than he is too like that.
Like guys, here's here's some basic stats for you so
that we can put away the idea of of points
(36:34):
per game with Tyre's Halliburton. He's run one hundred and
fifty two ball screens in the postseason, including passes, and
he's generating one point zero seven points per possession. He's
run forty nine ISOs, most of them against switches. He's
generated fifty nine points. That's one point two zero points
per possession. He's been a super reliable shot creator in
(36:55):
this postseason run. Like like I, it's so much deeper
than putting shots at putting individual shot making on the
table like he is, like it is such a it
is such a half court surgery sport. And he just
keeps his offense in rhythm consistently. He's had the clut
shot making late. I'm not saying he's a top ten player.
(37:19):
But when we when we discussed this summer, I wouldn't
be surprised if he landed at like nine, ten, eleven,
twelve in that range. And we'll see, we'll talk about
it more this summer. To the point of the question, though,
like there's been all this debate about, you know, the
stars versus the depth, and I've given my two cents
(37:41):
in terms of, like me still feeling like stars are
determining outcomes in many cases. But it is both, and
it's always been both. Depth is probably a little more
relevant now just because a pace there's more possessions of
every game, the games are more intense, there's more ground coverage,
there's more physical wear and tear, so all that's fair,
but there's no doubt that it takes both. You need
(38:05):
to have a great player at the head, a great
number two, and you need to have a lot of
talent down the roster. And if we go back in
NBA history, Boston wasn't just the top five guys. They
had six starting caliber players and then Sam Houser was
legit and Peyton Pritchard was legit. You go back to
the previous year with Denver, it was Bruce Brown like
(38:27):
they had they had like six starters that they could
legitimately trust and they could, oh, this is not in
a Michael Porter Junior game. We're gonna lean into Bruce
Brown more in this particular game. You go back to
twenty two with the Warriors, it was Jordan Poole having
the success that he had off of the bench, and
(38:47):
what's his name, the guy that the wing who always
gets hurt auto Porter Junior the Warriors, the Warriors capturing
a season of useful auto Porter Junior play twenty twenty
one with the Bucks. You look at you know, PJ.
Tucker as a bench weapon. You go to the Lakers
and it's Rajon Rondo and Kyle Kuzma coming off the bench.
(39:08):
You go back to twenty nineteen. We can go down
the line, like every NBA champion has had like six
or seven awesome players. There are no examples that I
can think of where there was a superstar and a
bunch of bums who won the title. That doesn't happen.
That doesn't happen. Guys, like you need superstars and you
need depth, like like or if you're the Celtics last year,
(39:31):
you can have two near superstars and five thirty million
dollar players, but like you win championships with talent. That
has always been the case. The only thing we see
at the highest levels is two really talented teams. Where
sometimes there's a team that's a little bit more talented,
but this team overcomes it because they play a better
brand of basketball, or they have a few role players
(39:53):
that get hot, or a star out plays the other star.
But ultimately it's the super talented teams at the top
that are competing every year. It's not bums like you need,
you need both. And this Pacers team, everyone's gotten better.
We've talked about it. Turner is better, He's beaten switches
at a super high level now, Siakam had his is
coming on at the right time. The Smith and Nemhart
(40:14):
have both gotten better each of the last couple of years.
Tyres Halliburn's the best he's looked since the start of
last year. Ben Mathern has become a really useful off
the bench weapon for them. TJ McConnell's one of the
top four or five backup guards in the league. They're talented,
as is every great team that ever makes deep playoff
runs in NBA history.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Hundred percent. Even that's true even of even of some
teams that we think of as top heavy, like the
those you know, Championship era Calves and Warriors teams like
Sean Lemingston is coming off the bench super super useful
like that. Both of these teams have. Richard Jefferson was
massive for the Caps in that series, both channing both
teams even the best that most teams that we think
(40:51):
of as particularly top heavy, you have a lot of
depth as well. One more question then we'll go over
to playback. This is not about either of these two
series today. Assuming the Warriors lose to the t Wolves,
should they try to build around their big three in
the off season, Steph Jimmy Draymond or see if there's
actually any way to pursue a major talent upgrade like Yannis,
And just for fairness for the hypothetical, I'm gonna say
(41:12):
building around their big three, the option A includes getting
Cam Johnson and an option be you know, is honest,
because if it's just build around those three guys generally
versus Jannis, the entriest feel like, obviously honest.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
You call Yannis, this is what you do? You Steph
Starts blowing up Jannis's phone and asking him to leverage
things behind the scenes. It's not gonna work because like
the Bucks brass are gonna look at Youiannis in the
face and be like, dude, I'm not gonna turn down
seven first round draft picks. Like I don't know what
to tell you. But you make the call, You do
your deal due diligence. You have Steph call Jannis, you
(41:47):
have your front office call the Bucks front office. You
explore everything there, and you put together the best possible
offer that you can. But I mean, ultimately, like even
with the Yannis thing, if you get Yannis and it
complete guts you of any depth, like because like why
would Milwaukee want, you know, Jimmy Butler for instance, Like
you're gonna have to You're gonna have to find a
(42:08):
way to justify that deal with asset compensation. And so
it's worth a call. It's just unlikely. And then I
start to think of it from the perspective of the
Cam Johnson piece, and it's like, would you rather have
Steph cam Johnson, Jimmy Butler and Draymond or Steph Giannis
and Draymond. You obviously take Giannis, but like it's the
(42:29):
Steph cam Johnson, Jimmy Butler Draymond is still a really
cool like upgrade that accentuates this specific areas that they
need help in. And I think that team can compete
for a championship. So it's not a bad fallback option,
if that makes sense. You're not holding any delusions of
(42:50):
grandeur that they're gonna get young y. Sorry, I don't
think so.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
I think it. I think it's a very it's one
of the more fun two man pairings that we haven't
seen before in the NBA. Stepan, I mean, Steph with
a lot of players becomes the most fun too man team,
but stephanianis is particularly fun. But no, I don't I
don't see I don't see it that.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
Yeah, it's just there, and it like the three buyers
at the top of the league just have so much
to offer that it's just it's going to be extremely
difficult to compete there. I mean, especially now that the
Spurs have they can dangle the number two overall pick,
which is arguably a more valuable asset than anything that
the Golden State Warriors have access to. All right, guys,
it's all we have for YouTube tonight. We're heading over
to playback. We'll see you guys there in just a
(43:29):
couple of minutes. Again, it's playback dot TV slash Hoops tonight.
We'll see you guys there in a couple of minutes.
What's so, guys? As always, I appreciate you for listening
to and supporting Oops tonight. They would actually be really
helpful for us if you guys would take a second
and leave a rating and a review. As always, I
appreciate you guys supporting us, but if you could take
a minute to do that, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
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Colin Cowherd
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