May 27, 2025 • 42 mins
Colin points out the major difference between the NBA's MVP Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and the potential "Face of the League" Anthony Edwards as the Thunder take a commanding 3-1 lead in their Western Conference Finals series against the Timberwolves
He doubles down on why he believes Shedeur Sanders fell in the draft
Thoughts on the recent comments from Aaron Rodgers about potentially retiring from the NFL
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Here we go. It is a Tuesday. We are live.
It is The Herd. Wherever you may be, however you
may be listening. Thanks for making us part of your day.
Nick right one hour, Shmack. There is something to be
said about consistency. And I thought I thought Minnesota gave
(00:46):
it everything they had. Minnesota Actually Jmac won the box score,
field goal percentage, three point percentage, assists, rebounds, fast breakpoints,
points in the paint all Minnesota, Oklahoma City on the game.
Is this gonna be a coronation? Is that we're doing?
Speaker 3 (01:03):
It's just hey, okay, see's the best.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
They're gonna start a dynasty.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
SGA for President is what we're doing today.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Well, let's get down to what is the difference in
the series. They're both led by a significant talent at guard.
The two best players in the series are SGA for
OKC and ANT for Minnesota and has more flash. He's
more athletically dynamic, he's more vertical. We kind of want
(01:29):
him to be MVP. SGA is the MVP, and you
get the same game every night. That's why Oklahoma City
in these late game clutch time scratches, is very very good.
SGA scored less than twenty points one time in the
regular season and fifteen times. And they're both the centerpiece
(01:51):
of the offense and part of it is ANT is
twenty three and SGA is twenty six and isn't as refined.
Ga is more focused, more refined, more consistent. You know
what you get. He doesn't fall out of his game
regardless of what you throw at him. He makes great decisions.
He's older. The foots on the accelerator. SGA averaged thirty
(02:15):
three a game. Why because he mostly scored thirty three
a game and averaged twenty eight a game thirty nine
to one night, twenty two the next night. That's what
his game is. It takes a while. I mean Tom
Cruise is obsessed with movie making. Later in life, last
six films, five films, Tom Cruise is realized I'm an
(02:37):
action star. No more Rock of Ages, no more Eyes
Wide Shut, no more Vanilla Sky. I do action movies.
The more I run, the more people go watch. And
that's what he is, and that is great. Older athletes
could be a quarterback, could be a point guard. They're
(02:59):
more consistent. You don't get the highs and the lows. SGA,
I mean, aunt still has volatility to his game. SGA
is oatmeal for breakfast. He's a blt for lunch, and
those puppies last forever. All this criticism of SGA is laughable.
The guy can hit Threese, great ball handler, uses his
(03:21):
length brilliantly, can hit mid range. There was a play,
I think it was in the second quarter where he
bodied a guy a foot tall or Rudy Gobert, and
used the left hand his off hand to score off
the glass. It was an incredible move. But he wasn't
dunking over anybody. He was using his body and using
his length. And that's what he does. And it's not
(03:42):
SGA's job to entertain us. That's not his job. This
whole free throw merchant. He averages eight point eight free
throws a game. As an MVP, I went and looked
this morning. At Lebron's MVP seasons, you know what, he
averaged eight free throws a game. Be honest, this is
about SGA. Game isn't fun and the media and the
(04:03):
fans they prefer a Westbrook or a Derrick Rose, or
a Stevie Francis or a Marberry or a John Waller
and iverson. Those are fun and they're dynamic. So his aunt,
SGA's not. He's just consistently great. The tool belt is
completely full. I see a pro. It's like the quarterback
(04:24):
who stepped to the line and is great at pre snap.
He's done his homework. This guy has a left hand,
a right hand, range, ball handling consistency machine. And talk
about a guy that uses his length. Yesterday, Sga passed
Michael Jordan for the most thirty point games in the
season in which you were the MVP. And his scoring
(04:47):
isn't just about him. The thunder are now thirteen and
one this season. When he scores forty plus points. That
wasn't the case with Kobe. Sometimes with Kobe, the more
he scored, the less everybody else touched it and was involved.
His scoring connects with winning in the whole free throw
merchant thing. You just don't like what it looks like.
(05:10):
I understand it's not flashy, it's not cool, but it
wins and it's consistent. And here's sga after I.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Tried not to worry too much about scoring or making
plays or whatever it was. I tried to just like
lose myself in the competition, be aggressive, pick my spots,
and he.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Does pick his spots. Series is now over. It's three
to one, but it's over. Okay, So I thought this
was interesting. I have said this is the hill I'm
gonna die on that. Shadeur Sanders, over the course of
the next ten months, will be the starting quarterback for
the Cleveland Browns. I thought he was underdrafted. I don't
(05:53):
think he's John Elway. I don't think he's Peyton Manning
or even Eli. But I think he's the best quarterback
they have and it'll just take him time. And I
think he's a good kid. I buy a large good kid.
But he said something yesterday to Cleveland dot Com. He said,
ninety nine percent of the online scrutiny is because of
my dad, and he is exactly right. That's why it
(06:17):
was really a mistake when dad went on shows and
said things like this.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
Have you told him privately who you would like for
him to play for?
Speaker 1 (06:29):
It's not like that.
Speaker 5 (06:30):
It's not like who I would like for him to
play for. It's a couple teams that I won't allow
him to play for. So it's not like that. But
this is my profession. I know what's behind the curtain.
We ain't got to get back there for me to
understand what's behind the curtains and what's not prominent for
my son. I'm not doing it, man.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
And if he doesn't listen to you, who.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Yeah, bad NFL owners see that. GMC clips of that
and they're like, no, thanks, Well what about John Elway?
His dad wasn't on TV telling teams don't draft my son. Okay,
and John Elway is the greatest quarterback prospect out of
college ever to this day. Ever, the more talent, the
(07:18):
more leverage in every walk of life. Watching the NFL
Draft this year on both ESPN and the NFL Network
was maddening. I can't understand why he's dropping. What in
the world is happening, Dad is happening. That's why I
like the tact that Arch Manning and his family's doing.
They're staying in the shadows. That's where all the real
(07:39):
power is in life. Get out in the sun and
get burned. Dion was in the sun. Deon spent too
much time on television talking. Doesn't mean Deon's a bad
Guy's a great recruiter. He's done wonderful things for Colorado.
He's an all time great player. But I have said
this over and over and I will repeat it. Dads,
stop talking. Nobody cares quarterback dad has become pageant. Mom,
(08:05):
your heart is in the right place, you have good intent.
You are hurting your sons. Nico Iamaliava. Remember that Tennessee.
He cost his son millions of dollars and now he's
at a second term, second tier college football program instead
of the Tennessee volunteer. So it's this is a cautionary tale.
The NFL controls television networks. It's the only sport that
(08:29):
tells the networks what they will pay for the rights
and then has the right mid contract to step in
and change it. Yeah, they're not going to have dads
tell them where their son's going to play. And so
this is not I understand the devotion, the love, and
(08:51):
the fifteen years you've put into your son, pageant mom,
quarterback dad. But he's got it right. Shadur's got it right.
It's dad, Pops. He got in the way. And I
also understand the heart and affection and the loyalty of
the dads, like I get it. I've said this before
to people. I am, I think I am. I can
(09:12):
be really objective about everything in the world. Accept my kids.
I can be objective. I think mostly about my wife,
about my life, about my career, about not my kids.
It's just different, and I understand it's tough, but I
like that Shadu or knows it's kind of pops. And
(09:32):
we'll see it more and more and more and more.
And I know, I hear. What about Eli Manning? A
Eli Manning was a better prospect. Also, his brother was
in the league as an MVP at the same position,
and oh yeah, his dad had you know, been brilliantly talented,
albeit in a horrible franchise quarterback. The Manning's a royal
(09:53):
family in America, certainly at the quarterback position. And I
don't remember Arch Manning going on TV. They did a
lot of the stuff behind the scenes, which I'm always
okay with. I've just said stay out of the sun,
you're gonna get a sunburn. But on the SBF fifty
do your maneuvering behind the scenes where people can claim
you said things, but you have culpability, which when you
(10:16):
go on television and exclaim not doing that, we're not
going there. You are talking directly to the people, the companies,
the corporations, the owners and gms who are going to
draft you. And I think it just did not play
well at all, all right, so J Mack, We've got
a lot of things going on and did not play.
I mean mostly it was invisible. Also, you know, we
(10:39):
did something yesterday at the end of the show. I
talked to the staff after the show and I said,
I want to work on something tomorrow. Aaron Rodgers on
our show yesterday, I had a really interesting moment where
he was outside talking to a bunch of people. And
I think sometimes you have to be careful about those
sound bites because sometimes it's performative. If you're like outside,
you and I are doing an outside show, you start
playing to the crowd and you say things that you
(11:01):
probably that are embellished. You're kind of performing for the crowd.
But Aaron Rodgers did say something recently to a group
of people that's on tape that hinted to me that
the retirement thing is a greater than fifty to fifty chance.
And we played that bite yesterday and I want to
get to that and other things when we come back.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in noon Easter nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Nick rid forty five minutes from now. So Anthony Edwards
had one shot in the first quarter, thirteen total shots
in the game, and he said after you know, I
didn't really get enough shots to judge my game. Listen
Jaden McDaniels or the Tea Wolves had more shots than ant.
That can't happen. You can't be the face of the
league and get one shot in the first quarter of
(11:58):
the biggest game of the playoffs. Can't do it. Not
interested in excuses. Michael may have been getting tackled by
the Pistons. He didn't have one shot quarter, even when
he had good teammates. So because basketball players enter the
NBA at eighteen, nineteen, twenty years old, you just have
to wait. There are stages of maturity, and I think
(12:19):
personally and professionally, and I'm kind of waiting for him
to graduate to the adult consistent stage. He was mostly
a non factor last night. So you can take him
out of his game. Everybody knows it. Throw a bunch
of bodies at him and make him make kind of
advanced reads and he's going to struggle. It's a lot
like a young star quarterback who's not great at pre
(12:40):
snap stuff like it takes Brady's six, seven, eight years.
Mahomes admit, the light didn't go on until year three.
So you can just throw a bunch of stuff at Sga.
He's twenty six and he sees it and he can
read it. You can throw anything now at Mahomes four
years ago. He was a little confused. Years ago he
(13:01):
had to add lib instead of getting pre snat blitzes
out of the way. And so I think I think
sometimes Aunt relies too much on these sensational plays in
his athleticism. And he's great, but he's not consistently half
to half great. And I you know, I'm looking at
some of the numbers this morning. The edit thing that
really hurts is that Oklahoma City's defense is not only great,
(13:23):
it's historically great, it's deep, it's young, it's twitchy, it's
almost collegiate, and its energy and they throw a bunch
of bodies at him and so, but let's defend Aunt here,
Yo kitch at twenty three, that's what AUNT is. Aunt's
twenty three. Yo Kitch at twenty three got his first MVP.
Aunt at twenty three played for a losing team in
Oklahoma City. So Michael Jordan in the eighties before his
(13:47):
game was more than just raw scoring. Michael Jordan was
having some really bad halfs and quarters against the Pistons.
Like it happens. It's just in the NFL, a guy
comes in with three, four or five year experience, he's
got a more refined game. Ants isn't. And so he
talked about his night only thirteen shots after. I don't
(14:08):
really look at it like a struggle.
Speaker 6 (14:09):
I didn't get enough shots to say I struggled, so
that that might be how you guys look at it.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
But yeah, I know, struggle it. Oh, it's just I
made the right lay.
Speaker 5 (14:16):
Yes, I urge it.
Speaker 7 (14:16):
I want to get the ball Dagram put it up there.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
But if you don't want to take bad shots and
get your team out of rhythm. So just you know,
playing a game the right way. Yeah, I mean, and
Lebron said that I'm playing the game the right way.
But Lebron would end up with thirty four points and
thirteen assists and occasionally pass up big shots because he
was playing the game the right way. Ant's not the
(14:39):
distributor of Lebron, and Lebron wasn't settling for thirteen shots.
You may not have trusted Lebron in his prime at
the free throw line or even when he was young,
but you trusted the productivity AT's not there. He is
a highly athletic, lot of fun, super dynamic, unlimited ceiling.
But at this point we're all kind of waiting and
(15:01):
it will come and it will come soon. But he's
not quite there yet. He's twenty three, SGA's twenty six,
and you can see the difference in consistency. J. Macklin News,
Turn on the news.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
This is the headline news.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
All right, Colin, let's bust right into it.
Speaker 8 (15:20):
Nicks Pacers Big One tonight, Game four, and you saw
Rick Carlile starting to plant some seeds, maybe some playing
some mind games with Tom Thibodeau. Interesting down the stretch
in game three, Colin Jalen Bronson was.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Benched due to foul trouble. The Knicks had to.
Speaker 8 (15:38):
Play joeln Wright and Landry Shammitt, two guys who only
play in blowouts. Listen to what Rick Carlile said about
the Knicks down the stretch in the press conference.
Speaker 9 (15:48):
Well, they had a lot of their better defenders in
the game in the second half, and that makes it harder.
And so you've got you've got a defensively to get rebounds,
and there's a different element of grinding when you're going
against their better.
Speaker 5 (16:06):
Guys, and so.
Speaker 9 (16:09):
We're gonna have to do better in a lot of
those situations.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
That's good stuff.
Speaker 8 (16:16):
That's like Phil Jackson level chess right there. Basically, Hey, hey,
they were playing good defenders down the stretch. What do
you want us to do? Sjaleen Brunson was on the bench.
That's what he's alluding to. How that is a major
shot at Thibodau, And you wonder, you know, Thibodau has
lost a bunch of big games in his career, never
really broken through a one, the big one, And you
wonder if.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
He's gonna think, Hey, we can't get stopped. We got
to pull Brunson.
Speaker 8 (16:38):
I can't imagine that, but everyone got to be in
play game four.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
You can't lose this.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Your game is your game, and we talked about this
at the end of yesterday's show. Hallam Burton's a better
defender than Brunson, a better distributor, not the closer. But
when Halli Burton's not playing for the Pacers, they're not
the same offense. They can disintegrate break quickly. There are moments,
fairly irregularly when Brunson's off the floor the Knicks defend
(17:06):
better and Cat flourishes. So you So the point is
the Knicks are not a championship team. They have two
major flaws. They're not a championship team. You can't be
have your two stars be bad defensively, especially when Okac
defensively is maybe the best team ever. They're not a
championship team. So what you have to do, because Brunson
is your quarterback, is to find a better complementary piece.
(17:30):
This is all a lesson you have to learn. The
NBA is steps. Last year, the Knicks weren't close. This
year they're kind of close. They need another tweak because
it's real clear what Carlisle is saying and what teams
are doing.
Speaker 8 (17:47):
Listen, they're more than close coming. They're in the final
four year, they got a legitimate shot.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Should be up to one.
Speaker 8 (17:53):
But I won't go there with that Freakis Game one collapse. Listen, man,
they went out and got Michail Bridges, who's they're very
good wing defender. They got oh Giannernobi, who's a very
good wing defender.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
They've got guys. Brunson just has to not foul.
Speaker 8 (18:06):
And you know, as a defender, I know you're saying
he's terrible, but we saw this with Steph Curry and
then Warriors were able to get through and win two
titles without Kevin Durant.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Right, well, Steph, Steph's better than Brunson. You know that
there's a there's a gap between Steph's game and Brunston's game.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Okay, he's a little better, yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Like, yeah, he's a top ten to twelve player of
all time. Brunson's not a top forty player of all time.
Fifty players.
Speaker 8 (18:32):
Young, Come on, I can't believe you've gone from loving
Brunson too well, he's a terrible def.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
I can love Joe Burrow and say one more big injury,
and I have to draft another quarterback. I'm a grown up.
I can I can contextualize off. I can think two things.
I love Caleb Williams, but he better be good by
mid October. Two things can be true. I don't have
to take a side on Brunson. He's the best quarterback
in New York. I love him, but he doesn't defend.
(18:58):
You can pick on him. And he needs the ball.
He's not an off ballplayer. SGA's big scoring. Everybody feels
like they're touching it, hallit. Burton doesn't even have to score.
He creates pace and touches. Brunson's game is his game.
He's got a score. He's got to have the ball. Therefore,
you have to figure out guys that play. We've seen
this before, by the way, Westbrook needed the ball. Okay, See,
(19:21):
Eventually Durant said, I can't play with this. I can't
do it. So like everybody's got their game, Brunson has his.
It's the front office's job to find the right pieces.
Speaker 8 (19:31):
James Harden not a great defender an elite offensive talent.
Speaker 10 (19:34):
Right.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
It was another one that I had thought of.
Speaker 8 (19:36):
But essentially you've got to just figure it out as Coke.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
That's your job.
Speaker 8 (19:40):
Hey, we got here, we won fifty plus games. We're
in the Eastern Conference.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Also, also remember Brunson's not a baby. He played significantly
in college, big minutes, playing defense. He came out as
an old college player and under Tibbs practice time in minutes,
he's an old twenty eight. He's twenty eight going on
thirty between New York. Those are hard grinding minutes, practices
(20:04):
and games. So Brunson's twenty eight, but he doesn't have that.
This is not like Mike dan Toni's offense where you
don't even practice defense. That's not what the Knicks are.
Speaker 8 (20:14):
People don't want to hear this, but Luka Danjets got
to the finals. Is a terrible defender. They just got
him room protectors. You know, I don't want to be
sports the name of again.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Luka Dontag is a much different level player than Brunson.
Like Luca's gonna go down, Yeah, He's gonna go down.
Arguably the top five scorer of all time, he's a
totally different player.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Isaiah Thomas at the Pistons.
Speaker 8 (20:33):
You remember he wasn't a great defender, but Joe Dumars
they paired him with Dumars, who would then lock up
play covering up for Steph like it can be done.
Nicks are fine. They're winning tonight. By the way, just
want to put that on your radar.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
What's the line plus two?
Speaker 8 (20:46):
I got Nix plus two and I am back betting
on this one.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
I like the Knicks in this one, Colin.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
I'll take the Pacers minus two. Sure, all right, let's go.
Speaker 8 (20:54):
On to the next story. Let's go to baseball again.
Show a Otani boy, Colin. Look what he did last
night against the New York Mets.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
First pitch of the game, bow gone.
Speaker 8 (21:07):
Otani now with nineteen home runs, leading the league. Aaron
Judge with eighteen. Otani's on pace for fifty five homers
and thirty five steals. Last year he had fifty four
homers and fifty nine steals. I mean, I don't see
who's more valuable than this time the Lebron. You should
(21:29):
just give him the MVP every single year and nobody's
gonna say it.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Damn. I love the crowd shots are interesting. I'm always
kind of fascinated to watch him. He's in Cleveland, so
I'm fascinated to watch how many Dodger jerseys there are.
It's a Caitlin Clark effect where it's like when Otani
goes on the road, I think the Dodgers lead the
baseball and road at ten. It's it used to be
the Yankees for years and years with a Rod and
Jeter and the Bombers. But it's interesting when you watch
(21:55):
a Dodger road game, look at how many Dodger Blue
jerseys are in the crowd. It's crazy even in Cleveland.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Curry, remember Curry.
Speaker 8 (22:02):
I back when I lived in Pennsylvania, we went to
a Sixers Warriors game. This was before like this is
twenty fourteen, fifteen. I was in on Curry. Then I
had my kids outfitted in Steph Curry jerseys. I thought
they would be like standing out. Tons of Curry jerseys
everywhere in the Lower Bowl in Philly, And it's like Curry,
Caitlin Clark, and I would agree with you, O, Tony
(22:22):
just transcendent Superstars.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Colin final story is.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
Ceedee Lamb.
Speaker 8 (22:27):
Is on the Cowboys obviously in the Superstar and Jerry
Jones has paired him with George Pickens.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
CD and George.
Speaker 8 (22:34):
Pickens are now working out in Oda's and Lamb talked
about how the new addition has been.
Speaker 7 (22:40):
We called him in each other very well. Obviously, he's
a tall figure. Obviously, his ability to go up and
get the ball at the highest point is amazing. I
don't think anybody in the league that can really. I mean,
he's up there with the guys in the league, you know,
as far as fifty fifty balls, deep threat anything, as
far as running roads.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
It's pretty good.
Speaker 7 (23:01):
It's good to see.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Listen, he'll be a great receiver on a six win team.
Speaker 8 (23:07):
Wait, Colin, I thought I changed your mind last week.
I don't know if you could pull up the Cowboys schedule.
It's favorable enough early back CD and Pickens can start
to cook.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
And I'm not changing my tune and saying they're going
to go to the playoffs or anything.
Speaker 8 (23:23):
But they're more than a six win team with that offense, now,
the defense, the offensive line.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
There are still some lingering questions. But the schedule.
Speaker 8 (23:30):
Early is favorable, Colin, for the Cowboys.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
That's not that's not right there.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
It was favorable last year for the Steelers early and
then what happened the Steelers late. The truth comes out
in the NFL. The truth, the truth is no is
Thanksgiving off. By the way, Tua sunny Weather looks like
a different quarterback. Tua in December January on the road
is a different quarterback. The truth of the NFL. In
(23:57):
the NBA, the truth is the playoffs. In the NFL,
the truth it's post Thanksgiving.
Speaker 8 (24:03):
I would agree they're not going to the playoffs, but
they can. Again, from a gambler's perspective, I think there's
gonna be some value on Dallas early because everybody's down
on them.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
The national narrative is they're not going.
Speaker 5 (24:14):
To the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
We would agree, but.
Speaker 8 (24:16):
The schedule early, you're going to surprise some people. You know,
Pickens playing for a big contract, right.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Yeah, yeah, there, you know six and eleven. But a
lot of fun to watch in October is what they'll be.
J Mack with the news, Well.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
That's the news, and thanks for stopping by the herd
Line News.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
So this is something I find really interesting. So Cam Newton, who,
by the way, I like him as a podcaster more
than I did as a quarterback. I think he's a
really good podcaster. He was fine at quarterback. He was
just a little flashy and too inconsistent, but he's a
good podcaster. He says interesting things. He doubles down on
the criticism of Caleb Williams being entitled. Now boomerisias and
(25:00):
as a former excellent NFL quarterback, got to a Super Bowl,
was an MVP at one point, boomerosias And had called
him on New York radio, Kayleb Williams. He said, you know,
the entitlement is breathtaking, and so Cam Newton said yesterday
it's a strong take, but he's not wrong. We're living
in the golden era of entitlement, so coming from Cam,
(25:21):
it's kind of funny. But I'm not going to take
any shots whatever. Can we just be totally honest about
Kayla Williams. If he got Sean Payton as a coach
as a rookie, none of this story would be here.
If he got a competent offensive staff, this wouldn't be
a story. I do not see entitlement with young quarterbacks,
(25:45):
even Shador Sanders. It's more his dad, Bo Nicks, Jaden Daniels,
Drake May, Michael Pennix. I'm blown away by how lucky
the NFL is at the focus, the commitment and the
maturity of all all these young quarterbacks. I'm blown away
by it. I certainly wasn't this mature at twenty three
years old. You go look at Mahomes and Allen and
(26:06):
Burrow and Lamar and Herbert and Tua. They're like grown
ups in their early twenties. It's amazing. Yes, Caleb Williams
and his father were deeply concerned about the bears historical
offensive ineptitude. I don't know if you watched the Bears
last year, but they were proven one hundred percent correct
(26:28):
on all of their concerns. That's not called entitlement. That's
called doing your homework, assessing accurately, an assignment, understanding the
temperature of the room. Even the Bears, by firing people
through the season, acknowledged, we're not doing this kid any favors.
(26:49):
The Bears acknowledged by all their firings. It's not the kid,
it's the grown ups around the kid. So I get
to regularly meet these young football players. These quarterbacks are
bow knicks. I'll meet or a Caleb Williams. I never
think of them as immature and entitled. Ever. In fact,
(27:10):
I would say the last entitled quarterback, and you know
who it is, because I said he was undraftable was
Johnny Manziel. I said I wouldn't draft Baker Mayfield, but
I didn't say he was undraftable to the league. I
said Baker needs to grow up. Baker is a top
twenty quarterback since he arrived in this league. He's talented
and he's matured. I didn't think Baker was entitled. He's
(27:33):
a hard worker. Johnny Manziel's the quarterback that was entitled.
He now admits it as he's matured. Johnny Manziel the
money signed, didn't do the homework, not watching film that's entitled.
Caleb Williams and his dad had concerns, and I also
think you have to consider culturally what has happened. Caleb
(27:55):
Williams was our first collegiate nil superstar. He was making
more than ever anybody on usc staff, not name Lincoln Riley.
Do you think at twenty two, if you were making
five million dollars a year, you would always make every
day the best decision? Or maybe Caleb Williams and his
dad saw what Matt Stafford went through in Detroit and
(28:18):
how it would have crushed an otherwise brilliant career. Can
you imagine if Stafford went to McVeigh or a Shaahan
or an Andy Reid out of college, we wouldn't now
be debating if he's a top twenty quarterback. Ever, he
would be a top five quarterback. Ever, So where you
land matters. It is not entitlement to be deeply concerned now,
(28:41):
I do think, and I know this because I reported
a year ago he and his dad were thinking of
figuring out a way not to go there. But in
the end, Caleb didn't want to push the nuclear option,
put his head down. I'm going to work my way
through it. But I've seen entitled. I've seen entitled, I've
(29:02):
seen Johnny Manziel, I've seen over the top. I just
disagree with Boomerisias and Cam Newton. I regularly get opportunities
to meet these young professional college to professional quarterbacks, even
Baker Mayfield, though I thought he needed to grow up.
Baker's a good guy, hard worker, some real leadership, moxie,
(29:24):
and that was a guy I was critical of. Tim
Tebow was a guy I didn't like his game, but
he was mature and focused and committed. So I don't
buy the entitlement thing. I've seen entitlement, that's not it.
I think multiple times over my career. I've said this,
We're very lucky. How often the star of the NFL
(29:49):
is a Brady, is a Manning, is a Mahomes what
looks like a Jaden Daniels Like you'd want him to
be your son. You'd want them to be part of
your family. They're so committed, so driven, despite the fact
they're getting ridiculed. Hot takes the culture of opinion. I
(30:10):
don't see the commitment Cam Newton, though he sees it.
Speaker 6 (30:16):
We are living in the golden era of entitlement and
I hate that.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
For sports as a whole, right, whether it's the parent
or the player.
Speaker 6 (30:27):
You may not lack the words, but behind what Boomer
Assassin is saying is some truth.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
And that's a lot of.
Speaker 6 (30:34):
Merit to the thinking of how a lot of guys
who have came through this league are in the league
feel about guys coming into the league.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Yeah. I mean, if the culture of the NFL has
always been the league is bigger than any player, including Brady,
Brady Left ratings went up far have Left ratings went
up like I do not see the football culture in America.
You are coached hard. Basketball culture, aau culture can be
(31:08):
a little, you know, get your thing, get your bag,
get your stuff. A little bit too much for me,
and and really great coaches like Kerr have questioned if
AAU makes our basketball players better. But football culture in
America is not about entitlement. It's about putting in the work,
putting in the time. Being kind of strangely obsessed. And
I don't see it coming up next Aaron Rodgers. It
(31:32):
sounded like retirement is on the table that's coming up.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in noon eastern non am Pacific.
Speaker 11 (31:43):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together we're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You could catch
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four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the
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We talk about everything, life, sport, relationships, what's going on
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about the stories behind the stories in the world of
(32:05):
sports and pop culture, stories that well, other shows don't
seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact
that we've been friends for the last twenty years and
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take your phone calls, chop it up as they say,
I'd say, the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio,
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(32:26):
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two to four Pacific. And if you miss any of
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get your podcasts, and of course on social media that's
Covino and Rich.
Speaker 8 (32:41):
Sunday, the fastest racing on Earth gets the streets of
the Motor City of the Detroit brand free. The IndyCar
season continues Sunday at twelve thirty Eastern on Fox.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
So Matt hasseled back yesterday on our show assured us
that Aaron Rodgers is going to be at Pittsburgh's Theater
may very well be a Pittsburgh Steeler. I don't know
he was. He was recently he was doing a Q
and A in front of people. Aaron was. And again,
when you're performative in front of people, you may say
things that in the moment gets the crowd worked up
or I'm not holding Aaron to every word of a
(33:18):
public podcast or a public talk. People say things, but
it does sound like there's a story out there. I
think Aaron said he would play for ten million dollars.
That tells me that money's not driving him. He also
said recently, I'm not going to play for the Saints.
I don't want to live in Indianapolis. That tells me
where he played plays matters. And this sounds like he's
(33:43):
not that far from retirement.
Speaker 10 (33:45):
I've thought about that, and I don't understand what the
what the reason for that is.
Speaker 8 (33:54):
You know.
Speaker 10 (33:55):
At the same time, I grew up a Niner fan,
and most of my my favorite players retire as a Niner.
So I understand the cool thing about it. But if
I didn't do it, would that make a difference in
how I'm viewed in the packer's eyes. There's a lot
of love for me and how I feel about the team.
If I do, if I don't, I don't think you
should make a difference. I'm not sure yet. If they
(34:18):
approached me about it, I probably would.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Yeah, Aaron's saying, you know, if they approached me about playing,
I probably would well, they have Jordan Love. So you're
saying you'd be a backup. And so you're saying you
would close your career and you're still a starting quarterback
in this league. You've aged, but you're still a starting quarterback.
So you're basically saying, is I'd go be a backup
for Green Bay. Wow, that's something you'd play for ten million.
(34:41):
That's something I don't want to play in Louisiana. That's
something These are your words, but I was saying when
the show ended yesterday, I said, you know, there's two
quarterbacks in the history of great quarterbacks. I've never quite
known what to do with Dan Marino and Aaron Rodgers.
Because whereas baseball is about stats, stats are really important
for baseball people and basketball style and culture is really important,
(35:07):
in football, it's about winning big games. That's why Elway,
who didn't throw as pretty a ball as Marino, is
here and Marino's much lower, John got to the big
game more even if he lost it. And to me,
there's always been four or five things when you start
counting everything for the great quarterbacks, I want to know
your Super Bowl appearances and wins. Don't have to win
(35:30):
all of them. I'm not looking for six for six.
I want division titles, so you at least dominate your division.
You may have somebody like Brady or Peyton Manning in
your conference, but you at least dominate your division. I
obviously want a lot of productivity. I want your playoff record.
Those are your biggest games, whether you win all of them,
but I want you to have some impressive playoff resume stuff.
(35:53):
And I'll count. MVPs are a personal award, but they
mean something. It means a high level of play amongst
your peers. I will not count passer rating. Tua and
Jimmy Garoppolo, Deshaun Watson, and Russell Wilson have a significantly
higher passer rating than Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Josh Allen.
(36:13):
I know Aaron has the best passer rating of all time.
I do not care. Passer rating does not matter. It's
like NBA Coach of the Year Phil Jackson has won.
It's an irrelevant award. I think the people who win
it put the plaque in their garage, behind the rakes
and the brooms. It just doesn't matter, and passer rating
means nothing to me. MVPs signify amongst your peers. You
(36:41):
are the best that season, so that matters. But when
you look at Marino and Aaron Rodgers, they're not close.
Aaron's been to one super Bowl, had one great playoff run,
eleven and ten in the playoffs division titles. Yes, vs impressive,
(37:02):
but what do I do with that? Where do I
put that? Because when you put him in that group
of all time great quarterbacks Brady Montana, Elway, Mahomes, Peyton, Bradshaw, Farv, Aikman, Young,
not even Marino matches up. And I've said this before, Well, Marino, Marino,
(37:22):
and Aaron are the same, really talented. You may have
the two best releases I've ever seen esthetically pleasing, but
relative to talent, they didn't win enough. I mean, Dan
Marino had Don Shula, arguably the best coach of all time,
(37:42):
still didn't dominate his division, one great playoff run, and
had good teammates. Aaron always had a good old line,
always had an offensive coach. In much of Aaron's career,
the Lions were awful, the Bears were egregiously bad, and
Minnesota was never great. Although they had some great players,
(38:03):
they were kind of good. And yet Kirk Cousins went
five hundred the minute he got into that division against Aaron.
So I've never understood exactly if Aaron retired today. It's again,
this is not basketball. It's not about style, it's not
about culture. It's winning big games. If you think about
(38:23):
Aaron Rodgers all time greatest playoff moments, one jumps out
the Jared Cook throw against Dallas. It may be as
good as anything I've ever seen. But Eli Manning, who
I didn't put on that board, has two of those,
David Tyree and Mario Manningham and he's got two Super
Bowls over Brady and Belichick. Manning's also what got What
(38:45):
do I do? What do I do? With Eli? He's
like Philip Rivers. If Philip Rivers won Super Bowls, what
do I do? So the thing, and I've said this
with both Marino and Aaron Rodgers, it's hard to quantify
super Bowls, division titles, productivity, winning big games, iconic moments,
(39:09):
they're everything else. I'll give them the MVPs. Those matter.
But I was looking at passer rating this morning. I
just it's nonsense. And this is and I've always my
belief has always been Aaron at the end of his
career played to protect his passer rating. If he threw
an interception or two, he shut it down. He played
(39:32):
to protect that all time number one passer rating. And
it's great. It's just an inch above Mahomes and Lamar Jackson.
But Peyton Mannings is sixteenth, Kurt Warners is nineteenth, Josh
Allen is twenty third. In fact, Derek Carr and Josh
Allen are neck and neck on passer rating. I can't
count that. That can't be a thing if you don't
(39:54):
have If you have one NBA Finals appearance as a coach,
but you've won the Coach of the Year four TI times,
I'm putting you below Phil Jackson. I'm sorry, I gotta
put your bow. Well. Phil had Michael Jordan, Doug Collins
had him, Stan Albrick had him well. I mean Phil
had Kobe Bryant, So did Del Harris. I don't want
to hear it. His New York next day may have
(40:15):
been a mess. I don't want to hear it, all right,
j Mac. Also, Nick Wright is on at the top
of the hour, I will.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
Hold I cannot let some of that slide.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
You know.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
I'm out on Rogers because he screwed the Jets.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
He was terrible. You got it, blah blah.
Speaker 8 (40:28):
That's all right, But I do have to put in
some context, like Eli Manning was great in two Super
Bowl games, two games. Aaron Rodgers has been great for seasons.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Yes, what matters more to you.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
A sixteen game season sample size.
Speaker 8 (40:47):
Where he won four MVPs or a game for he
won one Super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Well, it's obvious Aaron is rated, and I would rate
him higher than Eli Manning as a quarterback.
Speaker 8 (41:00):
And that's where it gets difficult, because it's like, are
we dinging Rogers too much for not getting to enough
super Bowls, not winning enough and pumping up Eli because
of you?
Speaker 1 (41:10):
No, no, up front. I think Eli Manning is absolutely
fairly categorized as a Hall of Famer, but not a
top fifteen quarterback. Nobody thinks he's a top fifteen quarterback.
But you can't beat Belichick and Brady in their prime
twice have two iconic throws and go, well, I don't
know he's Philip Rivers. No he's not. So nobody is
(41:33):
saying I would never insinuate that Aaron's below Eli. So obviously,
regular season MVPs and stats and productivity matter a lot,
but again we're talking all time top ten twelve guys.
Everything is something, nothing's everything, but everything is something. So
in my take is with Aaron and Marino, if you're
(41:54):
going to count them up against Brady and Montana and
Elway and Mahomes, and you're gonna get ding for getting
to one Super bil.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
So do you have l Way above Aaron Rodgers?
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, absolutely, I think yeah. I don't
even again, I grew up. You know, I'm watching John
Elway's career. I was a Seahawk fan right like. I
saw him live. I saw John Elway leadership, fourth quarter comebacks.
I think he's one of a short group back our
(42:28):
two next
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Here we go. It is a Tuesday. We are live.
It is The Herd. Wherever you may be, however you
may be listening. Thanks for making us part of your day.
Nick right one hour, Shmack. There is something to be
said about consistency. And I thought I thought Minnesota gave
(00:46):
it everything they had. Minnesota Actually Jmac won the box score,
field goal percentage, three point percentage, assists, rebounds, fast breakpoints,
points in the paint all Minnesota, Oklahoma City on the game.
Is this gonna be a coronation? Is that we're doing?
Speaker 3 (01:03):
It's just hey, okay, see's the best.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
They're gonna start a dynasty.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
SGA for President is what we're doing today.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Well, let's get down to what is the difference in
the series. They're both led by a significant talent at guard.
The two best players in the series are SGA for
OKC and ANT for Minnesota and has more flash. He's
more athletically dynamic, he's more vertical. We kind of want
(01:29):
him to be MVP. SGA is the MVP, and you
get the same game every night. That's why Oklahoma City
in these late game clutch time scratches, is very very good.
SGA scored less than twenty points one time in the
regular season and fifteen times. And they're both the centerpiece
(01:51):
of the offense and part of it is ANT is
twenty three and SGA is twenty six and isn't as refined.
Ga is more focused, more refined, more consistent. You know
what you get. He doesn't fall out of his game
regardless of what you throw at him. He makes great decisions.
He's older. The foots on the accelerator. SGA averaged thirty
(02:15):
three a game. Why because he mostly scored thirty three
a game and averaged twenty eight a game thirty nine
to one night, twenty two the next night. That's what
his game is. It takes a while. I mean Tom
Cruise is obsessed with movie making. Later in life, last
six films, five films, Tom Cruise is realized I'm an
(02:37):
action star. No more Rock of Ages, no more Eyes
Wide Shut, no more Vanilla Sky. I do action movies.
The more I run, the more people go watch. And
that's what he is, and that is great. Older athletes
could be a quarterback, could be a point guard. They're
(02:59):
more consistent. You don't get the highs and the lows. SGA,
I mean, aunt still has volatility to his game. SGA
is oatmeal for breakfast. He's a blt for lunch, and
those puppies last forever. All this criticism of SGA is laughable.
The guy can hit Threese, great ball handler, uses his
(03:21):
length brilliantly, can hit mid range. There was a play,
I think it was in the second quarter where he
bodied a guy a foot tall or Rudy Gobert, and
used the left hand his off hand to score off
the glass. It was an incredible move. But he wasn't
dunking over anybody. He was using his body and using
his length. And that's what he does. And it's not
(03:42):
SGA's job to entertain us. That's not his job. This
whole free throw merchant. He averages eight point eight free
throws a game. As an MVP, I went and looked
this morning. At Lebron's MVP seasons, you know what, he
averaged eight free throws a game. Be honest, this is
about SGA. Game isn't fun and the media and the
(04:03):
fans they prefer a Westbrook or a Derrick Rose, or
a Stevie Francis or a Marberry or a John Waller
and iverson. Those are fun and they're dynamic. So his aunt,
SGA's not. He's just consistently great. The tool belt is
completely full. I see a pro. It's like the quarterback
(04:24):
who stepped to the line and is great at pre snap.
He's done his homework. This guy has a left hand,
a right hand, range, ball handling consistency machine. And talk
about a guy that uses his length. Yesterday, Sga passed
Michael Jordan for the most thirty point games in the
season in which you were the MVP. And his scoring
(04:47):
isn't just about him. The thunder are now thirteen and
one this season. When he scores forty plus points. That
wasn't the case with Kobe. Sometimes with Kobe, the more
he scored, the less everybody else touched it and was involved.
His scoring connects with winning in the whole free throw
merchant thing. You just don't like what it looks like.
(05:10):
I understand it's not flashy, it's not cool, but it
wins and it's consistent. And here's sga after I.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Tried not to worry too much about scoring or making
plays or whatever it was. I tried to just like
lose myself in the competition, be aggressive, pick my spots,
and he.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Does pick his spots. Series is now over. It's three
to one, but it's over. Okay, So I thought this
was interesting. I have said this is the hill I'm
gonna die on that. Shadeur Sanders, over the course of
the next ten months, will be the starting quarterback for
the Cleveland Browns. I thought he was underdrafted. I don't
(05:53):
think he's John Elway. I don't think he's Peyton Manning
or even Eli. But I think he's the best quarterback
they have and it'll just take him time. And I
think he's a good kid. I buy a large good kid.
But he said something yesterday to Cleveland dot Com. He said,
ninety nine percent of the online scrutiny is because of
my dad, and he is exactly right. That's why it
(06:17):
was really a mistake when dad went on shows and
said things like this.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
Have you told him privately who you would like for
him to play for?
Speaker 1 (06:29):
It's not like that.
Speaker 5 (06:30):
It's not like who I would like for him to
play for. It's a couple teams that I won't allow
him to play for. So it's not like that. But
this is my profession. I know what's behind the curtain.
We ain't got to get back there for me to
understand what's behind the curtains and what's not prominent for
my son. I'm not doing it, man.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
And if he doesn't listen to you, who.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Yeah, bad NFL owners see that. GMC clips of that
and they're like, no, thanks, Well what about John Elway?
His dad wasn't on TV telling teams don't draft my son. Okay,
and John Elway is the greatest quarterback prospect out of
college ever to this day. Ever, the more talent, the
(07:18):
more leverage in every walk of life. Watching the NFL
Draft this year on both ESPN and the NFL Network
was maddening. I can't understand why he's dropping. What in
the world is happening, Dad is happening. That's why I
like the tact that Arch Manning and his family's doing.
They're staying in the shadows. That's where all the real
(07:39):
power is in life. Get out in the sun and
get burned. Dion was in the sun. Deon spent too
much time on television talking. Doesn't mean Deon's a bad
Guy's a great recruiter. He's done wonderful things for Colorado.
He's an all time great player. But I have said
this over and over and I will repeat it. Dads,
stop talking. Nobody cares quarterback dad has become pageant. Mom,
(08:05):
your heart is in the right place, you have good intent.
You are hurting your sons. Nico Iamaliava. Remember that Tennessee.
He cost his son millions of dollars and now he's
at a second term, second tier college football program instead
of the Tennessee volunteer. So it's this is a cautionary tale.
The NFL controls television networks. It's the only sport that
(08:29):
tells the networks what they will pay for the rights
and then has the right mid contract to step in
and change it. Yeah, they're not going to have dads
tell them where their son's going to play. And so
this is not I understand the devotion, the love, and
(08:51):
the fifteen years you've put into your son, pageant mom,
quarterback dad. But he's got it right. Shadur's got it right.
It's dad, Pops. He got in the way. And I
also understand the heart and affection and the loyalty of
the dads, like I get it. I've said this before
to people. I am, I think I am. I can
(09:12):
be really objective about everything in the world. Accept my kids.
I can be objective. I think mostly about my wife,
about my life, about my career, about not my kids.
It's just different, and I understand it's tough, but I
like that Shadu or knows it's kind of pops. And
(09:32):
we'll see it more and more and more and more.
And I know, I hear. What about Eli Manning? A
Eli Manning was a better prospect. Also, his brother was
in the league as an MVP at the same position,
and oh yeah, his dad had you know, been brilliantly talented,
albeit in a horrible franchise quarterback. The Manning's a royal
(09:53):
family in America, certainly at the quarterback position. And I
don't remember Arch Manning going on TV. They did a
lot of the stuff behind the scenes, which I'm always
okay with. I've just said stay out of the sun,
you're gonna get a sunburn. But on the SBF fifty
do your maneuvering behind the scenes where people can claim
you said things, but you have culpability, which when you
(10:16):
go on television and exclaim not doing that, we're not
going there. You are talking directly to the people, the companies,
the corporations, the owners and gms who are going to
draft you. And I think it just did not play
well at all, all right, so J Mack, We've got
a lot of things going on and did not play.
I mean mostly it was invisible. Also, you know, we
(10:39):
did something yesterday at the end of the show. I
talked to the staff after the show and I said,
I want to work on something tomorrow. Aaron Rodgers on
our show yesterday, I had a really interesting moment where
he was outside talking to a bunch of people. And
I think sometimes you have to be careful about those
sound bites because sometimes it's performative. If you're like outside,
you and I are doing an outside show, you start
playing to the crowd and you say things that you
(11:01):
probably that are embellished. You're kind of performing for the crowd.
But Aaron Rodgers did say something recently to a group
of people that's on tape that hinted to me that
the retirement thing is a greater than fifty to fifty chance.
And we played that bite yesterday and I want to
get to that and other things when we come back.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in noon Easter nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Nick rid forty five minutes from now. So Anthony Edwards
had one shot in the first quarter, thirteen total shots
in the game, and he said after you know, I
didn't really get enough shots to judge my game. Listen
Jaden McDaniels or the Tea Wolves had more shots than ant.
That can't happen. You can't be the face of the
league and get one shot in the first quarter of
(11:58):
the biggest game of the playoffs. Can't do it. Not
interested in excuses. Michael may have been getting tackled by
the Pistons. He didn't have one shot quarter, even when
he had good teammates. So because basketball players enter the
NBA at eighteen, nineteen, twenty years old, you just have
to wait. There are stages of maturity, and I think
(12:19):
personally and professionally, and I'm kind of waiting for him
to graduate to the adult consistent stage. He was mostly
a non factor last night. So you can take him
out of his game. Everybody knows it. Throw a bunch
of bodies at him and make him make kind of
advanced reads and he's going to struggle. It's a lot
like a young star quarterback who's not great at pre
(12:40):
snap stuff like it takes Brady's six, seven, eight years.
Mahomes admit, the light didn't go on until year three.
So you can just throw a bunch of stuff at Sga.
He's twenty six and he sees it and he can
read it. You can throw anything now at Mahomes four
years ago. He was a little confused. Years ago he
(13:01):
had to add lib instead of getting pre snat blitzes
out of the way. And so I think I think
sometimes Aunt relies too much on these sensational plays in
his athleticism. And he's great, but he's not consistently half
to half great. And I you know, I'm looking at
some of the numbers this morning. The edit thing that
really hurts is that Oklahoma City's defense is not only great,
(13:23):
it's historically great, it's deep, it's young, it's twitchy, it's
almost collegiate, and its energy and they throw a bunch
of bodies at him and so, but let's defend Aunt here,
Yo kitch at twenty three, that's what AUNT is. Aunt's
twenty three. Yo Kitch at twenty three got his first MVP.
Aunt at twenty three played for a losing team in
Oklahoma City. So Michael Jordan in the eighties before his
(13:47):
game was more than just raw scoring. Michael Jordan was
having some really bad halfs and quarters against the Pistons.
Like it happens. It's just in the NFL, a guy
comes in with three, four or five year experience, he's
got a more refined game. Ants isn't. And so he
talked about his night only thirteen shots after. I don't
(14:08):
really look at it like a struggle.
Speaker 6 (14:09):
I didn't get enough shots to say I struggled, so
that that might be how you guys look at it.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
But yeah, I know, struggle it. Oh, it's just I
made the right lay.
Speaker 5 (14:16):
Yes, I urge it.
Speaker 7 (14:16):
I want to get the ball Dagram put it up there.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
But if you don't want to take bad shots and
get your team out of rhythm. So just you know,
playing a game the right way. Yeah, I mean, and
Lebron said that I'm playing the game the right way.
But Lebron would end up with thirty four points and
thirteen assists and occasionally pass up big shots because he
was playing the game the right way. Ant's not the
(14:39):
distributor of Lebron, and Lebron wasn't settling for thirteen shots.
You may not have trusted Lebron in his prime at
the free throw line or even when he was young,
but you trusted the productivity AT's not there. He is
a highly athletic, lot of fun, super dynamic, unlimited ceiling.
But at this point we're all kind of waiting and
(15:01):
it will come and it will come soon. But he's
not quite there yet. He's twenty three, SGA's twenty six,
and you can see the difference in consistency. J. Macklin News,
Turn on the news.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
This is the headline news.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
All right, Colin, let's bust right into it.
Speaker 8 (15:20):
Nicks Pacers Big One tonight, Game four, and you saw
Rick Carlile starting to plant some seeds, maybe some playing
some mind games with Tom Thibodeau. Interesting down the stretch
in game three, Colin Jalen Bronson was.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Benched due to foul trouble. The Knicks had to.
Speaker 8 (15:38):
Play joeln Wright and Landry Shammitt, two guys who only
play in blowouts. Listen to what Rick Carlile said about
the Knicks down the stretch in the press conference.
Speaker 9 (15:48):
Well, they had a lot of their better defenders in
the game in the second half, and that makes it harder.
And so you've got you've got a defensively to get rebounds,
and there's a different element of grinding when you're going
against their better.
Speaker 5 (16:06):
Guys, and so.
Speaker 9 (16:09):
We're gonna have to do better in a lot of
those situations.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
That's good stuff.
Speaker 8 (16:16):
That's like Phil Jackson level chess right there. Basically, Hey, hey,
they were playing good defenders down the stretch. What do
you want us to do? Sjaleen Brunson was on the bench.
That's what he's alluding to. How that is a major
shot at Thibodau, And you wonder, you know, Thibodau has
lost a bunch of big games in his career, never
really broken through a one, the big one, And you
wonder if.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
He's gonna think, Hey, we can't get stopped. We got
to pull Brunson.
Speaker 8 (16:38):
I can't imagine that, but everyone got to be in
play game four.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
You can't lose this.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Your game is your game, and we talked about this
at the end of yesterday's show. Hallam Burton's a better
defender than Brunson, a better distributor, not the closer. But
when Halli Burton's not playing for the Pacers, they're not
the same offense. They can disintegrate break quickly. There are moments,
fairly irregularly when Brunson's off the floor the Knicks defend
(17:06):
better and Cat flourishes. So you So the point is
the Knicks are not a championship team. They have two
major flaws. They're not a championship team. You can't be
have your two stars be bad defensively, especially when Okac
defensively is maybe the best team ever. They're not a
championship team. So what you have to do, because Brunson
is your quarterback, is to find a better complementary piece.
(17:30):
This is all a lesson you have to learn. The
NBA is steps. Last year, the Knicks weren't close. This
year they're kind of close. They need another tweak because
it's real clear what Carlisle is saying and what teams
are doing.
Speaker 8 (17:47):
Listen, they're more than close coming. They're in the final
four year, they got a legitimate shot.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Should be up to one.
Speaker 8 (17:53):
But I won't go there with that Freakis Game one collapse. Listen, man,
they went out and got Michail Bridges, who's they're very
good wing defender. They got oh Giannernobi, who's a very
good wing defender.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
They've got guys. Brunson just has to not foul.
Speaker 8 (18:06):
And you know, as a defender, I know you're saying
he's terrible, but we saw this with Steph Curry and
then Warriors were able to get through and win two
titles without Kevin Durant.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Right, well, Steph, Steph's better than Brunson. You know that
there's a there's a gap between Steph's game and Brunston's game.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Okay, he's a little better, yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Like, yeah, he's a top ten to twelve player of
all time. Brunson's not a top forty player of all time.
Fifty players.
Speaker 8 (18:32):
Young, Come on, I can't believe you've gone from loving
Brunson too well, he's a terrible def.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
I can love Joe Burrow and say one more big injury,
and I have to draft another quarterback. I'm a grown up.
I can I can contextualize off. I can think two things.
I love Caleb Williams, but he better be good by
mid October. Two things can be true. I don't have
to take a side on Brunson. He's the best quarterback
in New York. I love him, but he doesn't defend.
(18:58):
You can pick on him. And he needs the ball.
He's not an off ballplayer. SGA's big scoring. Everybody feels
like they're touching it, hallit. Burton doesn't even have to score.
He creates pace and touches. Brunson's game is his game.
He's got a score. He's got to have the ball. Therefore,
you have to figure out guys that play. We've seen
this before, by the way, Westbrook needed the ball. Okay, See,
(19:21):
Eventually Durant said, I can't play with this. I can't
do it. So like everybody's got their game, Brunson has his.
It's the front office's job to find the right pieces.
Speaker 8 (19:31):
James Harden not a great defender an elite offensive talent.
Speaker 10 (19:34):
Right.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
It was another one that I had thought of.
Speaker 8 (19:36):
But essentially you've got to just figure it out as Coke.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
That's your job.
Speaker 8 (19:40):
Hey, we got here, we won fifty plus games. We're
in the Eastern Conference.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Also, also remember Brunson's not a baby. He played significantly
in college, big minutes, playing defense. He came out as
an old college player and under Tibbs practice time in minutes,
he's an old twenty eight. He's twenty eight going on
thirty between New York. Those are hard grinding minutes, practices
(20:04):
and games. So Brunson's twenty eight, but he doesn't have that.
This is not like Mike dan Toni's offense where you
don't even practice defense. That's not what the Knicks are.
Speaker 8 (20:14):
People don't want to hear this, but Luka Danjets got
to the finals. Is a terrible defender. They just got
him room protectors. You know, I don't want to be
sports the name of again.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Luka Dontag is a much different level player than Brunson.
Like Luca's gonna go down, Yeah, He's gonna go down.
Arguably the top five scorer of all time, he's a
totally different player.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Isaiah Thomas at the Pistons.
Speaker 8 (20:33):
You remember he wasn't a great defender, but Joe Dumars
they paired him with Dumars, who would then lock up
play covering up for Steph like it can be done.
Nicks are fine. They're winning tonight. By the way, just
want to put that on your radar.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
What's the line plus two?
Speaker 8 (20:46):
I got Nix plus two and I am back betting
on this one.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
I like the Knicks in this one, Colin.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
I'll take the Pacers minus two. Sure, all right, let's go.
Speaker 8 (20:54):
On to the next story. Let's go to baseball again.
Show a Otani boy, Colin. Look what he did last
night against the New York Mets.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
First pitch of the game, bow gone.
Speaker 8 (21:07):
Otani now with nineteen home runs, leading the league. Aaron
Judge with eighteen. Otani's on pace for fifty five homers
and thirty five steals. Last year he had fifty four
homers and fifty nine steals. I mean, I don't see
who's more valuable than this time the Lebron. You should
(21:29):
just give him the MVP every single year and nobody's
gonna say it.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Damn. I love the crowd shots are interesting. I'm always
kind of fascinated to watch him. He's in Cleveland, so
I'm fascinated to watch how many Dodger jerseys there are.
It's a Caitlin Clark effect where it's like when Otani
goes on the road, I think the Dodgers lead the
baseball and road at ten. It's it used to be
the Yankees for years and years with a Rod and
Jeter and the Bombers. But it's interesting when you watch
(21:55):
a Dodger road game, look at how many Dodger Blue
jerseys are in the crowd. It's crazy even in Cleveland.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Curry, remember Curry.
Speaker 8 (22:02):
I back when I lived in Pennsylvania, we went to
a Sixers Warriors game. This was before like this is
twenty fourteen, fifteen. I was in on Curry. Then I
had my kids outfitted in Steph Curry jerseys. I thought
they would be like standing out. Tons of Curry jerseys
everywhere in the Lower Bowl in Philly, And it's like Curry,
Caitlin Clark, and I would agree with you, O, Tony
(22:22):
just transcendent Superstars.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Colin final story is.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
Ceedee Lamb.
Speaker 8 (22:27):
Is on the Cowboys obviously in the Superstar and Jerry
Jones has paired him with George Pickens.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
CD and George.
Speaker 8 (22:34):
Pickens are now working out in Oda's and Lamb talked
about how the new addition has been.
Speaker 7 (22:40):
We called him in each other very well. Obviously, he's
a tall figure. Obviously, his ability to go up and
get the ball at the highest point is amazing. I
don't think anybody in the league that can really. I mean,
he's up there with the guys in the league, you know,
as far as fifty fifty balls, deep threat anything, as
far as running roads.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
It's pretty good.
Speaker 7 (23:01):
It's good to see.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Listen, he'll be a great receiver on a six win team.
Speaker 8 (23:07):
Wait, Colin, I thought I changed your mind last week.
I don't know if you could pull up the Cowboys schedule.
It's favorable enough early back CD and Pickens can start
to cook.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
And I'm not changing my tune and saying they're going
to go to the playoffs or anything.
Speaker 8 (23:23):
But they're more than a six win team with that offense, now,
the defense, the offensive line.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
There are still some lingering questions. But the schedule.
Speaker 8 (23:30):
Early is favorable, Colin, for the Cowboys.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
That's not that's not right there.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
It was favorable last year for the Steelers early and
then what happened the Steelers late. The truth comes out
in the NFL. The truth, the truth is no is
Thanksgiving off. By the way, Tua sunny Weather looks like
a different quarterback. Tua in December January on the road
is a different quarterback. The truth of the NFL. In
(23:57):
the NBA, the truth is the playoffs. In the NFL,
the truth it's post Thanksgiving.
Speaker 8 (24:03):
I would agree they're not going to the playoffs, but
they can. Again, from a gambler's perspective, I think there's
gonna be some value on Dallas early because everybody's down
on them.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
The national narrative is they're not going.
Speaker 5 (24:14):
To the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
We would agree, but.
Speaker 8 (24:16):
The schedule early, you're going to surprise some people. You know,
Pickens playing for a big contract, right.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Yeah, yeah, there, you know six and eleven. But a
lot of fun to watch in October is what they'll be.
J Mack with the news, Well.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
That's the news, and thanks for stopping by the herd
Line News.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
So this is something I find really interesting. So Cam Newton, who,
by the way, I like him as a podcaster more
than I did as a quarterback. I think he's a
really good podcaster. He was fine at quarterback. He was
just a little flashy and too inconsistent, but he's a
good podcaster. He says interesting things. He doubles down on
the criticism of Caleb Williams being entitled. Now boomerisias and
(25:00):
as a former excellent NFL quarterback, got to a Super Bowl,
was an MVP at one point, boomerosias And had called
him on New York radio, Kayleb Williams. He said, you know,
the entitlement is breathtaking, and so Cam Newton said yesterday
it's a strong take, but he's not wrong. We're living
in the golden era of entitlement, so coming from Cam,
(25:21):
it's kind of funny. But I'm not going to take
any shots whatever. Can we just be totally honest about
Kayla Williams. If he got Sean Payton as a coach
as a rookie, none of this story would be here.
If he got a competent offensive staff, this wouldn't be
a story. I do not see entitlement with young quarterbacks,
(25:45):
even Shador Sanders. It's more his dad, Bo Nicks, Jaden Daniels,
Drake May, Michael Pennix. I'm blown away by how lucky
the NFL is at the focus, the commitment and the
maturity of all all these young quarterbacks. I'm blown away
by it. I certainly wasn't this mature at twenty three
years old. You go look at Mahomes and Allen and
(26:06):
Burrow and Lamar and Herbert and Tua. They're like grown
ups in their early twenties. It's amazing. Yes, Caleb Williams
and his father were deeply concerned about the bears historical
offensive ineptitude. I don't know if you watched the Bears
last year, but they were proven one hundred percent correct
(26:28):
on all of their concerns. That's not called entitlement. That's
called doing your homework, assessing accurately, an assignment, understanding the
temperature of the room. Even the Bears, by firing people
through the season, acknowledged, we're not doing this kid any favors.
(26:49):
The Bears acknowledged by all their firings. It's not the kid,
it's the grown ups around the kid. So I get
to regularly meet these young football players. These quarterbacks are
bow knicks. I'll meet or a Caleb Williams. I never
think of them as immature and entitled. Ever. In fact,
(27:10):
I would say the last entitled quarterback, and you know
who it is, because I said he was undraftable was
Johnny Manziel. I said I wouldn't draft Baker Mayfield, but
I didn't say he was undraftable to the league. I
said Baker needs to grow up. Baker is a top
twenty quarterback since he arrived in this league. He's talented
and he's matured. I didn't think Baker was entitled. He's
(27:33):
a hard worker. Johnny Manziel's the quarterback that was entitled.
He now admits it as he's matured. Johnny Manziel the
money signed, didn't do the homework, not watching film that's entitled.
Caleb Williams and his dad had concerns, and I also
think you have to consider culturally what has happened. Caleb
(27:55):
Williams was our first collegiate nil superstar. He was making
more than ever anybody on usc staff, not name Lincoln Riley.
Do you think at twenty two, if you were making
five million dollars a year, you would always make every
day the best decision? Or maybe Caleb Williams and his
dad saw what Matt Stafford went through in Detroit and
(28:18):
how it would have crushed an otherwise brilliant career. Can
you imagine if Stafford went to McVeigh or a Shaahan
or an Andy Reid out of college, we wouldn't now
be debating if he's a top twenty quarterback. Ever, he
would be a top five quarterback. Ever, So where you
land matters. It is not entitlement to be deeply concerned now,
(28:41):
I do think, and I know this because I reported
a year ago he and his dad were thinking of
figuring out a way not to go there. But in
the end, Caleb didn't want to push the nuclear option,
put his head down. I'm going to work my way
through it. But I've seen entitled. I've seen entitled, I've
(29:02):
seen Johnny Manziel, I've seen over the top. I just
disagree with Boomerisias and Cam Newton. I regularly get opportunities
to meet these young professional college to professional quarterbacks, even
Baker Mayfield, though I thought he needed to grow up.
Baker's a good guy, hard worker, some real leadership, moxie,
(29:24):
and that was a guy I was critical of. Tim
Tebow was a guy I didn't like his game, but
he was mature and focused and committed. So I don't
buy the entitlement thing. I've seen entitlement, that's not it.
I think multiple times over my career. I've said this,
We're very lucky. How often the star of the NFL
(29:49):
is a Brady, is a Manning, is a Mahomes what
looks like a Jaden Daniels Like you'd want him to
be your son. You'd want them to be part of
your family. They're so committed, so driven, despite the fact
they're getting ridiculed. Hot takes the culture of opinion. I
(30:10):
don't see the commitment Cam Newton, though he sees it.
Speaker 6 (30:16):
We are living in the golden era of entitlement and
I hate that.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
For sports as a whole, right, whether it's the parent
or the player.
Speaker 6 (30:27):
You may not lack the words, but behind what Boomer
Assassin is saying is some truth.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
And that's a lot of.
Speaker 6 (30:34):
Merit to the thinking of how a lot of guys
who have came through this league are in the league
feel about guys coming into the league.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Yeah. I mean, if the culture of the NFL has
always been the league is bigger than any player, including Brady,
Brady Left ratings went up far have Left ratings went
up like I do not see the football culture in America.
You are coached hard. Basketball culture, aau culture can be
(31:08):
a little, you know, get your thing, get your bag,
get your stuff. A little bit too much for me,
and and really great coaches like Kerr have questioned if
AAU makes our basketball players better. But football culture in
America is not about entitlement. It's about putting in the work,
putting in the time. Being kind of strangely obsessed. And
I don't see it coming up next Aaron Rodgers. It
(31:32):
sounded like retirement is on the table that's coming up.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in noon eastern non am Pacific.
Speaker 11 (31:43):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together we're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You could catch
us weekdays from five to seven pm Eastern two to
four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the
iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich.
We talk about everything, life, sport, relationships, what's going on
in the world. We have a lot of fun talking
about the stories behind the stories in the world of
(32:05):
sports and pop culture, stories that well, other shows don't
seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact
that we've been friends for the last twenty years and
still work together. I mean that says something right. So
check us out. We like to get you involved too,
take your phone calls, chop it up as they say,
I'd say, the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio,
maybe the most interactive show on planetar. Be sure to
(32:26):
check out Cavino and Rich live on Fox Sports Radio
and the iHeartRadio app from five to seven pm Eastern
two to four Pacific. And if you miss any of
the live show, just search Covin on Rich wherever you
get your podcasts, and of course on social media that's
Covino and Rich.
Speaker 8 (32:41):
Sunday, the fastest racing on Earth gets the streets of
the Motor City of the Detroit brand free. The IndyCar
season continues Sunday at twelve thirty Eastern on Fox.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
So Matt hasseled back yesterday on our show assured us
that Aaron Rodgers is going to be at Pittsburgh's Theater
may very well be a Pittsburgh Steeler. I don't know
he was. He was recently he was doing a Q
and A in front of people. Aaron was. And again,
when you're performative in front of people, you may say
things that in the moment gets the crowd worked up
or I'm not holding Aaron to every word of a
(33:18):
public podcast or a public talk. People say things, but
it does sound like there's a story out there. I
think Aaron said he would play for ten million dollars.
That tells me that money's not driving him. He also
said recently, I'm not going to play for the Saints.
I don't want to live in Indianapolis. That tells me
where he played plays matters. And this sounds like he's
(33:43):
not that far from retirement.
Speaker 10 (33:45):
I've thought about that, and I don't understand what the
what the reason for that is.
Speaker 8 (33:54):
You know.
Speaker 10 (33:55):
At the same time, I grew up a Niner fan,
and most of my my favorite players retire as a Niner.
So I understand the cool thing about it. But if
I didn't do it, would that make a difference in
how I'm viewed in the packer's eyes. There's a lot
of love for me and how I feel about the team.
If I do, if I don't, I don't think you
should make a difference. I'm not sure yet. If they
(34:18):
approached me about it, I probably would.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Yeah, Aaron's saying, you know, if they approached me about playing,
I probably would well, they have Jordan Love. So you're
saying you'd be a backup. And so you're saying you
would close your career and you're still a starting quarterback
in this league. You've aged, but you're still a starting quarterback.
So you're basically saying, is I'd go be a backup
for Green Bay. Wow, that's something you'd play for ten million.
(34:41):
That's something I don't want to play in Louisiana. That's
something These are your words, but I was saying when
the show ended yesterday, I said, you know, there's two
quarterbacks in the history of great quarterbacks. I've never quite
known what to do with Dan Marino and Aaron Rodgers.
Because whereas baseball is about stats, stats are really important
for baseball people and basketball style and culture is really important,
(35:07):
in football, it's about winning big games. That's why Elway,
who didn't throw as pretty a ball as Marino, is
here and Marino's much lower, John got to the big
game more even if he lost it. And to me,
there's always been four or five things when you start
counting everything for the great quarterbacks, I want to know
your Super Bowl appearances and wins. Don't have to win
(35:30):
all of them. I'm not looking for six for six.
I want division titles, so you at least dominate your division.
You may have somebody like Brady or Peyton Manning in
your conference, but you at least dominate your division. I
obviously want a lot of productivity. I want your playoff record.
Those are your biggest games, whether you win all of them,
but I want you to have some impressive playoff resume stuff.
(35:53):
And I'll count. MVPs are a personal award, but they
mean something. It means a high level of play amongst
your peers. I will not count passer rating. Tua and
Jimmy Garoppolo, Deshaun Watson, and Russell Wilson have a significantly
higher passer rating than Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Josh Allen.
(36:13):
I know Aaron has the best passer rating of all time.
I do not care. Passer rating does not matter. It's
like NBA Coach of the Year Phil Jackson has won.
It's an irrelevant award. I think the people who win
it put the plaque in their garage, behind the rakes
and the brooms. It just doesn't matter, and passer rating
means nothing to me. MVPs signify amongst your peers. You
(36:41):
are the best that season, so that matters. But when
you look at Marino and Aaron Rodgers, they're not close.
Aaron's been to one super Bowl, had one great playoff run,
eleven and ten in the playoffs division titles. Yes, vs impressive,
(37:02):
but what do I do with that? Where do I
put that? Because when you put him in that group
of all time great quarterbacks Brady Montana, Elway, Mahomes, Peyton, Bradshaw, Farv, Aikman, Young,
not even Marino matches up. And I've said this before, Well, Marino, Marino,
(37:22):
and Aaron are the same, really talented. You may have
the two best releases I've ever seen esthetically pleasing, but
relative to talent, they didn't win enough. I mean, Dan
Marino had Don Shula, arguably the best coach of all time,
(37:42):
still didn't dominate his division, one great playoff run, and
had good teammates. Aaron always had a good old line,
always had an offensive coach. In much of Aaron's career,
the Lions were awful, the Bears were egregiously bad, and
Minnesota was never great. Although they had some great players,
(38:03):
they were kind of good. And yet Kirk Cousins went
five hundred the minute he got into that division against Aaron.
So I've never understood exactly if Aaron retired today. It's again,
this is not basketball. It's not about style, it's not
about culture. It's winning big games. If you think about
(38:23):
Aaron Rodgers all time greatest playoff moments, one jumps out
the Jared Cook throw against Dallas. It may be as
good as anything I've ever seen. But Eli Manning, who
I didn't put on that board, has two of those,
David Tyree and Mario Manningham and he's got two Super
Bowls over Brady and Belichick. Manning's also what got What
(38:45):
do I do? What do I do? With Eli? He's
like Philip Rivers. If Philip Rivers won Super Bowls, what
do I do? So the thing, and I've said this
with both Marino and Aaron Rodgers, it's hard to quantify
super Bowls, division titles, productivity, winning big games, iconic moments,
(39:09):
they're everything else. I'll give them the MVPs. Those matter.
But I was looking at passer rating this morning. I
just it's nonsense. And this is and I've always my
belief has always been Aaron at the end of his
career played to protect his passer rating. If he threw
an interception or two, he shut it down. He played
(39:32):
to protect that all time number one passer rating. And
it's great. It's just an inch above Mahomes and Lamar Jackson.
But Peyton Mannings is sixteenth, Kurt Warners is nineteenth, Josh
Allen is twenty third. In fact, Derek Carr and Josh
Allen are neck and neck on passer rating. I can't
count that. That can't be a thing if you don't
(39:54):
have If you have one NBA Finals appearance as a coach,
but you've won the Coach of the Year four TI times,
I'm putting you below Phil Jackson. I'm sorry, I gotta
put your bow. Well. Phil had Michael Jordan, Doug Collins
had him, Stan Albrick had him well. I mean Phil
had Kobe Bryant, So did Del Harris. I don't want
to hear it. His New York next day may have
(40:15):
been a mess. I don't want to hear it, all right,
j Mac. Also, Nick Wright is on at the top
of the hour, I will.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
Hold I cannot let some of that slide.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
You know.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
I'm out on Rogers because he screwed the Jets.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
He was terrible. You got it, blah blah.
Speaker 8 (40:28):
That's all right, But I do have to put in
some context, like Eli Manning was great in two Super
Bowl games, two games. Aaron Rodgers has been great for seasons.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Yes, what matters more to you.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
A sixteen game season sample size.
Speaker 8 (40:47):
Where he won four MVPs or a game for he
won one Super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Well, it's obvious Aaron is rated, and I would rate
him higher than Eli Manning as a quarterback.
Speaker 8 (41:00):
And that's where it gets difficult, because it's like, are
we dinging Rogers too much for not getting to enough
super Bowls, not winning enough and pumping up Eli because
of you?
Speaker 1 (41:10):
No, no, up front. I think Eli Manning is absolutely
fairly categorized as a Hall of Famer, but not a
top fifteen quarterback. Nobody thinks he's a top fifteen quarterback.
But you can't beat Belichick and Brady in their prime
twice have two iconic throws and go, well, I don't
know he's Philip Rivers. No he's not. So nobody is
(41:33):
saying I would never insinuate that Aaron's below Eli. So obviously,
regular season MVPs and stats and productivity matter a lot,
but again we're talking all time top ten twelve guys.
Everything is something, nothing's everything, but everything is something. So
in my take is with Aaron and Marino, if you're
(41:54):
going to count them up against Brady and Montana and
Elway and Mahomes, and you're gonna get ding for getting
to one Super bil.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
So do you have l Way above Aaron Rodgers?
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, absolutely, I think yeah. I don't
even again, I grew up. You know, I'm watching John
Elway's career. I was a Seahawk fan right like. I
saw him live. I saw John Elway leadership, fourth quarter comebacks.
I think he's one of a short group back our
(42:28):
two next
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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