May 31, 2025 • 46 mins
Where Colin was right and wrong
Thoughts on Aaron Rodgers future and all time ranking
Fox Sports NFL analyst Greg Olsen about the expectations for Bears quarterback Caleb Williams under new head coach Ben Johnson
Colin credits Shai Gilgeous-Alexander with a dominant series win over Anthony Edwards and the Timberwolves and how SGA is becoming "The Standard" for other NBA stars across the league
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd Podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
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dot com, or stream us live every day on the
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for listening to The Herd Podcast hour two on a
(00:25):
Memorial Day Monday. It's the Herd Wherever you may be, However,
you already watching your listener. Thanks for making us part
of your day. J mcmatt Hasselbeck is around the corner.
You've got a story on Caitlin Clark at the bottom
of the hour. Hope you had a great weekend. You
(00:46):
ran into Lebron James, you said, in a volleyball tournament.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Now a US Volleyball tournament. He attacked a big crowd. Hey,
quick question. Let me ask you, and I know you're
not a big social media guy. On weekends, You've got
a bubbly life out there in the Midwest. Do you
put something out about Caitlin Clark during one of her games?
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Do you see like a just a tsunami of a reaction.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Everybody seems to have thoughts on Kaitlin Clark is she's
probably more polarizing than any NBA player right now.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah, I don't get the polarizing. She's good. Yeah, let's
enjoy her. I don't get, like I understand. I do
understand a little bit of the animosity with players they
you know, it's like when Bryce Harper came in baseball,
nobody paid attention to us. Now you like the flashy
new player and her game is flashy, so I get
some animosity. But I always felt this. I remember when
Manny Ramirez left the Red Sox and he came back
(01:35):
and people were like, yeah, I don't know if I
like him, and my take his You're the Red Sox.
You could never beat the Yankees. I don't care what
you think of Kurt Shilling or Manny Ramirez. You beat
the Yankees. You won rings with them. Like, if somebody
makes my life better, like, I don't care if it's
your ex wife. If you had fifteen great years, appreciate it.
Those that's a big chapter in your life that was good.
(01:57):
So Kaitlin Clark's making everybody's life better. You can fly
Spirit Airlines or you can upgrade to private. That alone
is a thank you card in gift. I mean to me,
I don't get the polarization. All right, we do it
every Monday. Colin right, Colin wrong, and plenty of.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
Votes where Colin was right.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Well, my inclination was when the tush push got pushed through,
it was because of Jason Kelsey, the soon to be
Hall of Famer center for the Philadelphia Eagles, who stood
in front of the owners in a suit, got in
a stance and made a declaration that it was safe.
And the stories out today is Jason Kelsey indeed was
(02:38):
the reason. He changed about three to four votes that
it passed. Listen, the Health and Safety Committee of the
NFL wants to get rid of it, so it had
to be an influencer. It had to be somebody with
great conviction to sell it, an owner or a player
or a coach. And the reports are it was as
we speculated. Jason Kelsey was right. PFF came out last
(03:02):
week ranked quarterbacks, all of them. Dak Prescott was seventeenth,
one spot aheaded two him and that's exactly right. I
know y'all love him. He's a cowboy and he's rich,
and his intangibles from maturity to focus to leadership. I
agree they're a plus, but as a thrower of the football,
as an athlete, it's CC plus B minus. He is,
(03:26):
especially after a second major surgery, in the middle of
the pack, and I appreciate pff nailing where Colin was wrong.
The Lakers need a deal, Austin reeves. I don't get
the fascination, but Dan Woike reporting the organization loves him
and the only af to pay him next year fourteen million,
(03:47):
and they see him as an absolute steal. I see
him as a guy that got worked athletically against Minnesota's
wing players. I see him as a guy that should
be the fourth best player on a championship level team.
I think he's a little less talented than Derek White,
who I feel the same way about. If he's your
fourth best player, you should be buying for championships. But
(04:08):
I'm wrong, apparently.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Where Colin was right.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Insiders now saying Jeremy Fowler reports that Aaron Rodgers many
believe has his eye on Minnesota and that is why
he hasn't signed with Pittsburgh. It's not just necessarily the
personal reasons. I don't know it to be true, but
I have speculated he's too smart to think Pittsburgh's a
good fit. Burrow twice a year with better offensive teammates
(04:37):
and a better offensive coach Lamar Jackson in a better
organization twice a year. Pittsburgh is a bunch of ls,
even with Aaron Rodgers, and I think he knows it.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Where Colin was right, zach.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Ede made the All Rookie Team. The former produce star
I didn't understand the pushback on him. Mark Few came
on our show and said he never faced an offensive
college player that unstoppable. Dan Hurley came on the Herd
and said, the NBA doesn't know what they're talking about.
He's going to work in this league and for Memphis.
He made the All Rookie team. He's a guy that
(05:11):
just kept grinding. He got better sophomore to junior, junior's
senior year, and I think you're going to see continued improvement.
He clearly has an excellent work ethic.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Where Colin was wrong.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
The Eagles signed an extension in Nick Siriani. You know,
I don't quite get the vibe. I think there's a
lot of circumstances like Howie Roseman and Jalen Hurts and
Sae Kwon Barkley in the old line that elevated him.
But you know what, the players like him. I don't
have to get everybody. I mean, Philadelphia is a loud,
high volume, high intensity town, and there's an argument he
(05:45):
fits the Eagles more than any other team. So I
can take a wrong on that where Colin was right. Oh,
Jordan Hudson reportedly wearing a new ring and not wanted
Belichick's Super Bowl rings. That could be an engagement ring
since I'm the only American media member that does appear
to approve of this relationship, once again proving I am
(06:06):
not only America's honesty broker, but I'm a hopeless romantic.
I see it working. I think they like each other.
Relationships can be complicated, but there is a report that
they have a future, that these two are a real thing.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
Where Colin was right.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
NBA Western Finals between Minnesota and OKC is a ratings
dud I said, I think the Knicks Pacers is going
to get great numbers and it has. This is not
a needle mover. Sga is not a dynamic player. He's
just a great score. It's a small market and Minnesota
is not a huge basketball brand, So it doesn't surprise
me that this is just not moving the needle. Like
(06:45):
I think tonight could be the best game of the series.
If Minnesota wins it, I think that helps. If OKC wins,
I think the ratings are just going to be abysmal.
We've had this before, Duncan in the Spurs when they
were running the league. We're not a captivating team. Funkin
was great, but he was a big fundamental. He wasn't dynamic,
he wasn't a big personality.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
It happens where Colin was raw.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Kenny Pickett, now viewed as the front runner for the
Cleveland Browns quarterback gick. I don't get it. Just I'm
gonna die on this hill. Shador Sanders is going to
win this job. Picket's on his third team in four
years in his NFL career, fifteen touchdowns, fourteen picks. I
don't get it. You know, nice kid. I think he's
a backup. I think he loves football. But I said
(07:32):
it when he came out. He's more of a second
mid third round pick. He didn't pop on TV. He
did have one great college play where he was going
to slide. He faked it, stood ran we all ran
on a thousand times, but I don't see it as
a franchise quarterback.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in neon eastern nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
So Matt Hasselback yesterday on our show assured us that
Aaron Rodgers is going to be a Pittsburgh Steeler. May
very well be a Pittsburgh Steeler. I don't know he was.
He was recently. He was doing a Q and A
in front of people. Aaron was, And again, when you're
performative in front of people, you may say things that
in the moment gets the crowd worked up. Or I'm
(08:14):
not holding Aaron to every word of a public podcast
or a public talk. People say things, but it does
sound like there's a story out there. I think Aaron
said he would play for ten million dollars. That tells
me that money's not driving him. He also said recently,
I'm not going to play for the Saints. I don't
(08:35):
want to live in Indianapolis. That tells me where he
played plays matters. And this sounds like he's not that
far from retirement.
Speaker 5 (08:46):
I've thought about that and I don't understand what the
what the reason for that is. You know, at the
same time, I grew up a Niner fan and most
of my my favorite players reached as a Nighter. So
I understand the cool thing about it. But if I
didn't do it, would that make a difference in how
(09:08):
I'm viewed in the packer's eyes. There's a lot of
love for me and how I feel about the team.
If I do, if I don't, I don't think you
should make a difference. I'm not sure yet. If they
approached me about it, I probably would.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Yeah, Aaron's saying, you know, if they approached me about playing,
I probably would. Well, they have Jordan Love. So you're
saying you'd be a backup. And so you're saying you
would close your career and you're still a starting quarterback
in this league. You've aged, but you're still a starting quarterback.
So you're basically saying, is I'd go be a backup
for Green Bay. Wow, that's something you'd play for ten million.
(09:41):
That's something I don't want to play in Louisiana. That's
something These are your words, but I was saying when
the show ended yesterday, I said, you know there's two
quarterbacks in the history of great quarterbacks. I've never quite
known what to do with Dan Marino and Aaron Rodgers.
Because whereas baseball is about staff, stats are really important
for baseball people, and basketball style and culture is really important,
(10:08):
and football it's about winning big games. That's why Elway,
who didn't throw as pretty a ball as Marino, is
here and Marino's much lower. John got to the big
game more even if he lost it. And to me,
there's always been four or five things when you start
counting everything for the great quarterbacks, I want to know
your Super Bowl appearances and wins. Don't have to win
(10:30):
all of them. I'm not looking for six for six.
I want division titles so you at least dominate your division.
You may have somebody like Brady or Peyton Manning in
your conference, but you at least dominate your division. I
obviously want a lot of productivity. I want your playoff record.
Those are your biggest games, whether you win all of them,
but I want you to have some impressive playoff resume
(10:52):
stuff and I'll count MVPs are a personal award, but
they mean something. It means a high level of play
amongst your peers. I will not count passer rating. Tua
and Jimmy Garoppolo, Deshaun Watson and Russell Wilson have a
significantly higher passer rating than Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and
Josh Allen. I know Aaron has the best passer rating
(11:15):
of all time. I do not care. Passer rating does
not matter. It's like NBA Coach of the Year Phil
Jackson has won. It's an irrelevant award. I think the
people who win it put the plaque in their garage,
behind the rakes and the brooms. It just doesn't matter.
And passer rating means nothing to me. MVPs signify amongst
(11:38):
your peers. You are the best that season, so that matters.
But when you look at Marino and Aaron Rodgers, they're
not close. Aaron's been to one Super Bowl, had one
great playoff run, eleven and ten in the playoffs Division titles, Yes,
(11:59):
and impressive, But what do I do with that? Where
do I put that? Because when you put him in
that group of all time great quarterbacks Brady, Montana, Elway, Mahomes, Peyton, Bradshaw,
Farv Aikman, Young, not even Marino matches up. And I've
said this before, Well, Marino, Marino and Aaron are the same,
(12:25):
really talented. You may have the two best releases I've
ever seen esthetically pleasing, but relative to talent, they didn't
win enough. I mean, Dan Marino had Don Shula, arguably
the best coach of all time, still didn't dominate his division,
(12:45):
one great playoff run, and had good teammates. Aaron always
had a good old line, always had an offensive coach.
In much of Aaron's career, the Lions were awful, the
Bears were egregiously bad, and Minnesota was never great, although
they had some great players, they were kind of good.
And yet Kirk Cousins went five hundred the minute he
(13:08):
got into that division against Aaron. So I've never understood
exactly if Aaron retired today. It's again, this is not basketball.
It's not about style, it's not about culture. It's winning
big games. If you think about Aaron Rodgers all time
greatest playoff moments, one jumps out the Jared Cook throw
(13:29):
against Dallas. It may be as good as anything I've
ever seen. But Eli Manning, who I didn't put on
that board, has two of those, David Tyree and Mario
manningham and he's got two super Bowls over Brady and Belichick.
Manning's also what got What do I do? What do
I do with Eli? He's like Philip Rivers. If Philip
(13:50):
Rivers won Super Bowls? What do I do? So the thing,
and I've said this with both Marino and Aaron Rodgers,
it's hard to quantify super Bowls, division titles, productivity, winning
big games, iconic moments, they're everything else. I'll give them
(14:11):
the MVPs. Those matter. But I was looking at passer
rating this morning. I just it's nonsense. And this is
and I've always my belief has always been Aaron at
the end of his career played to protect his passer rating.
If he threw an interception or two, he shut it down.
He played to protect that all time number one passer rating.
(14:34):
And it's great. It's just an inch above Mahomes and
Lamar Jackson. But Peyton Mannings is sixteenth, Kurt Warners is nineteenth,
Josh Allen is twenty third. In fact, Derek Carr and
Josh Allen are neck and neck on passer rating. I
can't count that. That can't be a thing if you
don't have if you have one NBA finals appearance as
(14:57):
a coach. But you've won the Coach of the Year
four times. I'm putting you below Phil Jackson. I'm sorry,
I gotta put your bow. Well, Phil had Michael Jordan,
Doug Collins had him, Stan Albrick had him. Well, I
mean Phil had Kobe Bryant. So did Del Harris. I
don't want to hear it. His New York next day
may have been a mess. I don't want to hear it,
(15:18):
all right, j Mac Also, Nick Wright is on at
the top of the hour. I will hold hold.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
I cannot let some of that slide.
Speaker 6 (15:24):
You know.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
I'm out on Rogers because he screwed the Jets. He
was terrible, he got it, blah blah.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
That's all right, But I do have to put in
some context, like Eli Manning was great in two.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Super Bowl games two games. Aaron Rodgers has been great
for seasons. Yes, what matters more to you.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
A sixteen game season sample size.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Where he won four MVPs or a game for he
won one Super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Well, it's obvious Aaron is rated, and I would rate
him higher than Eli Manning as a quarterback.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
And that's where it gets difficult because it's like are
we dinging Rogers too much for not getting to enough
super Bowls.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Not winning enough and pumping up Eli because of you?
Speaker 1 (16:10):
No, no, up front, I think Eli Manning is absolutely
fairly categorized as a Hall of Famer, but not a
top fifteen quarterback. Nobody thinks he's a top fifteen quarterback.
But you can't beat Belichick and Brady in their prime
twice have two iconic throws and go, well, I don't
know he's Philip Rivers. No he's not. So nobody is
(16:33):
saying I would never insinuate that Aaron's below Eli. So
obviously regular season MVPs and stats and productivity matter a lot.
But again, we're talking all time top ten twelve guys.
Everything is something. Nothing's everything, but everything is something. So
in my take is with Aaron and Marino, if you're
(16:54):
going to count them up against Brady and Montana and
Elway and Mahomes, and you're gonna get ding for getting
to one super bit.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
So do you have l Way above Aaron Rodgers?
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Yes? Yes, yes, yes, absolutely, I think yeah. I don't
even again, I grew up, you know, I'm watching John
Elway's career. I was a Seahawk fan right like I
saw him live. I saw John Elway leadership fourth quarter comebacks.
I think he's one of a short group.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon eastern non am Pacific.
Speaker 7 (17:33):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together We're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You could catch
us weekdays from five to seven pm Eastern two to
four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the
iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich.
We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
Going on in the world.
Speaker 7 (17:51):
We have a lot of fun talking about the stories
behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture,
stories that well, other shows don't seem to have the
time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends
for the last twenty years and still work together.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
I mean that says something, right.
Speaker 8 (18:04):
So check us out.
Speaker 7 (18:05):
We like to get you involved, to take your phone calls,
chop it up. As they say, I'd say the most
interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the.
Speaker 8 (18:13):
Most interactive show on planetar.
Speaker 7 (18:15):
Be sure to check out Cavino and Rich Live on
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miss any of the live show, just search Covino and
Rich wherever you get your podcasts, and of course on
social media.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
That's Covino and Rich hour two. Indiana Pacers have taken
control of the series. Indiana has played fourteen playoff kids.
They're owing three in game threes when they lead to zero.
When they've taken control of the series, winning on the
(18:50):
road at Milwaukee, at Cleveland, at New York, they go
into the other team's place, steal both games. They come
home foot on the gas, let's off a little, and
they've lost one game in each series. Game three, that's it.
Otherwise they were eleven and zero in the urgency games
(19:10):
games one and two, four, five, six, they're eleven and er.
And Halliburton statline last night maybe the most impressive thing
I've ever seen in my life. Thirty two fifteen ten
and no turnovers. That is beyond hyper efficiency. That is insane.
That'd be like an NFL quit. That's what Jaden Daniels
(19:30):
did last year. But he would go like thirty of
thirty four with no turnovers. What It's just it's against
the defensive coach and a defensive team. And the other
thing is and you saw this with Magic Johnson. You
see this with a truly great point guard. You see
this with Chris Paul. Remember when Chris Paul was in LA,
like Blake Griffin was like is he a top three
(19:51):
or four player in the league? And DeAndre Jordan was
nothing but buckets. And then Chris Paul leaves those two
players and they're not the same players. You see all
the holes in their game. I like Pascal Siakam. He
looks all NBA first team playing with Aliburton thirty two,
fifteen ten and no turnovers. Here's Ali after.
Speaker 9 (20:11):
I feel like we're making up stats at at some
point to make me look better. I was just trying
to be aggressive, man, just trying to play my best,
you know. I feel like I let the team down
in Game three, feel like I could have been so
much better. So I feel like I responded the right
way today.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
The only time I haven't liked Indiana in this series
was when they had Halliburton off the floor end of
the third quarter in Game three and the start of
the fourth and they lost their rhythm. And this is
a rhythm team, and it's a rhythm team because of Halliburton.
And then he came back in. He got him back
on track, but it just it felt like they lost
their mojo. So like every time he goes to the bench,
(20:51):
if Brunson goes to the bench, Kat can score more.
The Knicks don't necessarily go into a cave. Halliburton's off
the floor. It's like it's like white knuckle time. You're like, okay,
all right, let's make sure this thing works. He is
all time specih. I love watching him play, and I
think it's a great personality with that. Greg Olsen joining
us live fourteen years in the NFL, Fox Sports Awnly,
(21:13):
it's great, great broadcaster. By the way, tight End University
is back, it's fifth year in Nashville in June twenty
three to the twenty six. I want to ask you
about that because part of what you do, which I
think is the most underdiscussed part of your sport is
film study. And Caleb Williams was recently quoted talking about
(21:33):
the Bears, a team you played for and loved playing for.
He's like, yeah, I'd watched film alone, and I don't
you know, I'm not in those rooms. When you hear
that he watched film alone, what was your interpretation of that.
How's that land for you?
Speaker 10 (21:50):
Yeah, it lands as you would expect. It's just it's
hard for me to believe that that was the case.
And I'm not saying he's not being genuine. I've been
in three day different organizations, multiple different head coaches, multiple
different quarterbacks. I've never heard of a guy not having
the opportunity to watch film with his position coach, let
(22:11):
alone the quarterback, not you know, between the quarterback coach,
the offensive coordinator, someone there. It's hard for me to
believe that the organization would let their young rookie watch
film by himself. But with that being said, yeah, it
is though an element of the sport that there is
a little bit of a learning curve. I don't think
most young guys coming out of college unless you just
(22:34):
happen to be playing for you know, the right coach,
the right position, coach, coordinator, whoever at the college level
to teach you the art of film studying. I think
we just have a joke like we're not in here
watching movies, right. There's a lot of guys that put
the game on play. One and they just go play one,
play two, play three, and they just go through the
sequence of a game. You know, yes, you're watching film,
(22:56):
are you really getting the tendencies and really know what
you're looking at to study? My experience is most guys
have to learn that. Most guys have to learn that
over the career. How I watched film in my fourteenth
year was wildly different than how I watched it my
first and second year. And I think it's up to
the organization. It's up to the coach, especially at the
(23:17):
quarterback position, where there is no greater responsibility than understanding
not only everything of what your team's doing, but of
course what the opposing team is doing defensively. So I
can't imagine Ben Johnson's going to let that go on
at all. So I think for Caleb Williams and his development,
the right guy now is in control in Chicago, both
over the team and then obviously offensively with what Ben
(23:39):
Johnson can do. But yeah, when I read that report,
I kind of did a ooh, like true, not true,
scales of truth whatever. There's always probably two sides to
every story. But just the fact that that was even
suggested is not a great is not a great reflection
of the organization for sure.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
But by the way, did you and Cam, for instance,
film study. Would you sit down with Cam and go, Dude,
this guy this guy in the flats week like, is
that a real thing?
Speaker 8 (24:08):
Oh?
Speaker 10 (24:08):
Absolutely? So we had a great routine, so it was
actually kind of fun. So most of the meetings from
when we got there in the morning were all controlled
by the coaches. It was small group meetings, offensive install
then we'd have practice, then we'd have post practice review
where we'd watch the practice film. So there was opportunities
to you know, hey, coach, take a second, Cam, here's
why I ran this flat. Here's why, And you're watching
(24:30):
practice film or you're watching and the opportunity to go.
But there's thirty five guys in the room, it's not
really the opportunity for the two of you to have
your own conversation. But then at the end of the
day when everything officially with the coaches ended, the tight
end and the quarterback room in Carolina.
Speaker 8 (24:45):
We're right next to each other.
Speaker 10 (24:46):
We literally shared a wall, so he'd be in his
room with some of the quarterbacks and I'd be doing
Sometimes I liked being by myself at the end of
the day just for my own prep and notes and whatnot.
And I knew he was right next door, so I
would pop over and be like, hey, I need you
to come to take a look.
Speaker 8 (25:00):
At this, and say, hey, look at the way the
safety's hips.
Speaker 10 (25:03):
Are you okay If I take this a couple of
yards deeper, am I going to throw off your timing?
And most of the time Cam was just like, get open,
I'm good. But then sometimes he'd be like, I can't
hold it that long, or it messes up with my
timing of my footwork, or I don't like the way
your body language looks on there because you kind of
fooled me. I wasn't sure when you were going to
come out of your break. I need less at the top.
(25:24):
So like that, dialogue in meetings on the field was NonStop.
And when you can play with one guy for as
long as we did over time, I knew his answer
before I even had to ask him, and vice versa,
because we had talked through so many scenarios over so
many days, you know, for those nine years together.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
So Cam was a mover. Caleb's a mover. Cam Ward
is a mover like I like Cam a lot, and
I think Tennessee could be a playoff team. Tell the
audience when you do have Caleb Williams and he can
add lib Now, I think the Bears online is better.
He won't have to do it as much. But some
of these guys, like Cam, cam Warden, Caleb, they're just
naturally gifted. It's like if you have a great voice,
you sing in the shower, like that's just the reality
(26:06):
of their game. When you have a mobile quarterback, does
it make it harder for tight ends and does it
make it harder in film studies so much as that live.
Speaker 8 (26:16):
Yeah, it's a great question.
Speaker 10 (26:17):
So I think what we're seeing right now in the
NFL is you can't play I should say with uncertainty.
The vast majority of guys cannot play NFL quarterback if
you don't have some level of improv right, some level
of playing off script, off platform, all the words, the
buzzwords that get thrown around, but the ability to buy time,
(26:39):
escape pocket pressure, and still stay active as a quarterback
and not always just rely on being a runner, stay
active as a passer. I mean, now, you also can't
only playoff script. You can't only play improv quarterback at
the NFL, there's no timing, there's no rhythm. The tackles
don't know your depth of your drop, The guards don't
know the depth of the pocket. Might blocking for you
(27:00):
to be at five and a half yards or are
you going to be outside the hash marks running with
your life. If I'm a quarterback, if I'm a wide
receiver or a tight end, I need to know at
the top of my break when I get my head around,
am I looking to find you behind the center at
seven yards? Or is there a chance that you've already
broken contained and you're outside the pocket and now I
need to get into scramble drilled. So there is a
(27:21):
balance to it all. You can't just stand in one
spot and be a statue in today's NFL. And you
also can't just play recess football running around. It's not sustainable.
So I think that the blend of don't take what's
special out of these guys, don't take it out of
their game. If you have the ability to move and improvise,
encourage them to do it, but just give them boundaries,
(27:43):
give them parameters of saying, Okay, I need you to
hit your fifth step of your drop, and it's a
progression pass or it's a half field read or whatever
the play calls for. After you've exhausted all of that,
if the opportunity there is to extend and create plays
outside the rhythm of the game, We're never going to
take you away. But it can't be hit your back
foot and run around because we can't support you doing
(28:07):
that every single play from a protection and a route concept.
So there is a little give and take, and I
think that's something that Ben Johnson has proven. He's coached
multiple different types of quarterbacks. He had a guy in
golf who really was stationary in rhythm, in timing, get
the ball out of his hand. He will have a
little bit of a different flavor for a guy like
Caleb where he does get that rhythm progression passer in
(28:31):
the offense because you need it, but then also encourage
him to use his athleticism because it is very challenging
for defenses to play off script and defend that.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Long before I get to the tight end. You the
tush push. You know, as a guy that was a
willing blocker. My guess was you like it? Do you
like the tush bush?
Speaker 8 (28:53):
I do?
Speaker 10 (28:54):
I think it would be an extremely unfair and wrong
to Philadelphia, who has really some teams have done it
here and there, no one has even come remotely close
to doing it as efficiently as often and used it
as such a fabric of their offensive philosophy, from how
they manage third downs knowing they got a yard and
(29:14):
a half in their back pocket, how they call first
and second down plays knowing they have a fourth down
in their back pocket, goal to go situations like it
is a not just a play, it is really a
centerpiece of the entire fabric philosophy that Sirianni has built
with that offense.
Speaker 8 (29:31):
In Jalen hurt.
Speaker 10 (29:31):
So I think to remove that from a team who
has found a play that they're uniquely good at, just
because the rest of the league is tired of trying
to find ways to defend it, I don't agree with.
My gut tells me they are going to eventually ban it.
I think it came so close this year at the
owners meeting. Typically those things don't come back. They typically
continue to move forward and getting the other side to flip.
(29:54):
I hope I'm wrong, because I think Philly has earned
the right to use that in their offen.
Speaker 8 (30:01):
I don't think the lineman loved doing it.
Speaker 10 (30:03):
I don't think they love being at the bottom of
the pile on you know, seven times a game, five
times a game. But when you're winning Super Bowls and
you tell me I got to mush a guy out
of there and get my back right, I'll do that.
Speaker 8 (30:14):
I'll do that to win the Super Bowl.
Speaker 10 (30:16):
So I'll be curious to see how it plays out.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Finally, I think, you know, people were complaining a couple
of years ago about you know, running backs don't make
any money. It's unfair. And my take has been, well,
tight ends have been under paid my entire life. They
have to block the best athlete on defense, and they
have to catch, they have to do most of the
dirty work, and then they're one of the last positions.
(30:41):
I guess this has changed that you can really take
a shot at as a defensive player. So when you
have your Nashville tight end university and you have all
these young guys in what is something you preach to
young tight ends a high school tight end? It's not
all catching, Like, is there something that do you deliver
a message a harsh message to all these young tight
(31:03):
ends that I wouldn't think about.
Speaker 10 (31:06):
Yeah, And it's actually a very simple message. And you know,
we get into route running, and we got Kelsey given,
you know, really high level coverage recognition and how to
use leverage and breaking and finding space and a lot
of this stuff. I kind of look and I laugh,
and I'm like, Kelsey, like, not everyone can do what
you're talking about right now because.
Speaker 8 (31:23):
It's super advanced.
Speaker 10 (31:24):
And him and Mahomes and then you got Kittle talking
run game and footwork and hand placement and fight and
you know, these guys are just so unique. But obviously
they have a lot of experience and a lot of
understanding of the position. But the message that we try
to deliver, at least the one I try to deliver
to all of our guys, to your point, is the
best opportunity to have success at tight end, especially at
(31:47):
a higher level, is to be able to be trusted
to be on the field on every snap. And that's
going to be your best case for production, catches, yards, opportunities,
how much you get paid, the impact on the offense,
all of it. If you could be the best pass
catching tight end in football or the best run blocking
tight end in football, but if I can only use that,
(32:09):
I can only use you in package of the offense.
At times where those skill sets are warranted, you still
are going to play in the NFL. You are still
going to be able to find a roster spot because
those skills have value. But if you want to be
a legit guy, you want to catch eighty balls, you
want to have a thousand yards. The only reason I
ever caught a thousand yards Colin was because I knew.
(32:31):
I went into every game and there was like four
to six real routes downfield twenty plus yards that were
designed for me. But of that four to six, I
needed the right protection, the right play call, did the
play ever get called in the first place, against the
right coverage? And then did I catch it was the throw.
There's so many factors of those four to six. If
(32:53):
I got two or three of those, that was a
great day. But now you got three catches for fifty
five yards. But now I caught a flat route, I
caught a first and second down checkdown because I'm on
the field. I caught a short yardage goal, a short
yardage pass, a goal line pass, and next thing you know,
I'd finished with seven for ninety and it wasn't the
(33:14):
flashy play. So if I'm only on the field for
the flashy plays. I never catch the easy ones. And
if I'm only good enough to be on the field
in goal line and short yardage because I'm a blocker,
I don't catch a third and eight dig across the
middle for twenty five. So being on the field and
providing value to your team no matter that down and distance,
you're not looking to the sideline. What personnel package are
(33:36):
they calling? If I'm on the huddle every single play,
even if I'm not the best at anything, my ability
to raise my value and raise my earnings, my production,
all of it go up. So that's our message to them,
be good enough at everything, and it's a much easier road.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Great stuff, great broadcaster, Fox Sports. It's tight end to you.
It's a Nashville the twenty third of the twenty sixth,
a great American city in Tennessee. Good seeing you, my man,
Good seeing you man.
Speaker 8 (34:05):
Have a great summer.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in neon eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Last night in a laugh for not much of a game.
And I understand this. I have said during the Pacers
Knicks series. Stop beating up on the Knicks. It's about
the Pacers. They have the best point guard and the
best offense and the best pace in the league. And
I feel like this with Minnesota, like they're not as
good as Okay, see, they don't have they don't have
the depth, they don't have the youth, they don't have
(34:37):
multiple guys who can score like that, and so it's
just I feel like we should kind of honor okac
a SGA more than Hammer Minnesota.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Oh a reasonable take to start the show call, and
I like it.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
I like it, So.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Let's start with that obviously. Okay, see that game was
over about seven minutes. The great thing about SGA, of
the many great things, what I really like is he
is delivering and fulfilling everything I've been told Jason Tatum
does but doesn't really. Last year, the Celtics going their
championship run, Jalen Brown's the MVP of the Eastern Conference Finals,
(35:11):
Jalen Brown's the Finals MVP, and Jalen Brown's the aggressor
and often the initiator. SGA wants the ball, is always
the aggressor, and he plays Williams Homered He's got multiple
great players around him, but he is clearly the alpha.
And that's all I ever asked with Tatum and got pushedback.
(35:33):
You know, that's I'm holding Jason Tatum to the standard
you guys all lectured me on for years on Lebron
when Lebron didn't take the shot. He's the alpha, He's
the one. If he wants to be MJ he's got
to always take the shot. Okay, Well, that's the standard
of SGA and Yokich right now. Like like, I think
both Jokic and SGA can elevate teammates, and clearly do
(35:59):
elevate teammates. But there is no question in this Oklahoma
City room or that Denver locker room, or in the
huddle or any time there's a late possession who's the man.
And I mean, we could crush the t Wolves right
They were awful. Their effort was weak. But this series
(36:20):
is not about the t Wolves and the Knicks pacers,
which I think will end soon. It is not really
about the Knicks failures. Indiana is the best offense in
the league with the best pace. OKAC is easily the
best defense and the greatest score. I mean, SGA is
only the fourth player in twenty years to win the
MVP and reach the finals. The other three Steph, Kobe,
(36:42):
and Lebron. I don't know that feels historic to me,
So I just I look at them. Between SGA and
Okac's defense, this is gonna be a great final. I
get the best offense, I get the best defense, I
get the best point guard, and I get the best score.
(37:02):
And I know it's not catchy, and I know it
doesn't sound, you know, dynamic, but I think SGA's nickname
should be the standard. This is the standard for a
true number one in the locker room, in the huddle,
every big possession. He is a number one has to
(37:22):
be dominating, offensively, understood by all, even his talented teammates,
debilitating to your defense, an adult, consistent number one on
the bus, on the plane, in the room. SG Alpha
the Western Conference Finals, undisputed MVP. This is not about
(37:48):
Minnesota's failures. It's about a historic player. He's one of
three guys in league history to have thirty points five
plus assists at least ten times in the playoffs, m
Jan Lebron of the other two, this kid is special.
Every time he talks every time he leads, you just
see what a one should be. And here he is
(38:10):
after winning the conference finals, MVP.
Speaker 6 (38:14):
Yeah, it's a really good feeling. I think stuff you
jim about as a kid. And then of course I
want to thank my teammates. Without them, I'm nothing. Claire's Dave.
I don't have one hundred and twenty four point by myself.
I love these guys to death. With all that being said,
this is a step.
Speaker 8 (38:31):
In the right direction.
Speaker 6 (38:31):
But we have a lot more work to do and
we know that and that's what we're focused on.
Speaker 4 (38:34):
So I buckle up and get ready.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
Listen. They won by an average margin of twelve point
nine points per game, and I understand, like veteran teams
in the regular season, don't give it. You know, Lebron's
going to take some night offs, and the older players,
you know, they're dinged up a little bit. I understand
their youth is a big component to it. But here's
what else is. This is as good a defensive team
(39:00):
as I remember now. Detroit Pistons were great, but you
could tackle back then. That was a little different. But
given what you can do now, you can't really you
can't handcheck, you can't use that forearm on your back
given what you're allowed to do by NBA protocol and rules.
This is the best defense I've ever seen. They hound,
(39:20):
They confound their aggressive to rim protectors on the back end.
Even SGA plays defense, and as long like this is
as good as defense gets. So we can bang on Minnesota.
But they're not built to beat this team. Julius Randol's
probably a three, not of two. Go Beart's got no offense,
conly great veteran presence, not an offensive threat, and ant
(39:45):
just isn't there yet to single handedly beat this offense.
Way to go? Okay, See all right, listen, I don't
want to make a big deal out of this, but
some pretty the interesting information trickled over my phone from
the Cleveland browns Ota yesterday. I'm not great at math,
(40:10):
but let's put the numbers up for the television audience.
It appears in the four quarterback derby.
Speaker 6 (40:18):
Hmm.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Again, not a mathematician, but one of them has more
tds than completions. That feels important to me. Despite the
fact that Shaduur Sanders had the fewest attempts, he was
the most efficient and most productive with the fewest reps.
So the quarterback tracker for those radio audience members. Flacco
(40:44):
was nine for fourteen in a touchdown, Piket nine for sixteen,
no touchdown, Dylan Gabriel eleven of sixteen, two touchdowns on
a pick, and Sanders seven of nine, three touchdowns, no picks.
This I've seen enough. I'm calling in a rap. The
Herd newsroom is calling it in Ohio by a landslide.
(41:08):
Shadoor Sanders should be starting. We are calling Ohio as
the projected winner in a race that is not as
close as the fake news projected. You can keep selling
me on Picket. You can keep selling me on Dylan Gabriel.
Now Flacco, I buy flacoh. I like he's one of
(41:29):
one of my favorite guys that's ever played in the league.
He's like everybody likes Flaco, and I think he's gonna
win the starting job. Initially, I really like Flaco, but
I'm calling it. I'm calling it for Shador and here's
Flacco on Shadur.
Speaker 11 (41:45):
Shador has been great. I mean, he's a lot of
fun to be around in those meeting rooms. And I
think once I think so far there's been you know,
at least once in the media room that he's He's
made me crack a smile, and that's what it's all about.
You know, he's a young guy trying to learn some
football and come out here and practice well and do
those things. And like I said, you've been a lot
(42:05):
of fun.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Okay, you know, people either everybody's trying to sell you.
I mean, TikTok's selling you. IG's selling you using filters.
Everybody is selling you stuff. Now people are talking about
the election that wasn't for Biden and was for Trump.
Everybody's selling me their takes. You all keep selling me.
I got scouts telling me he's a fifth or a
(42:27):
six round talent all I know, with very average personnel
outside of Travis Hunter, against the very best teams he played,
they didn't win games, but he was highly productive, and
a lot of college quarterbacks against the best teams with
better teammates weren't as productive size, movement, accuracy. I like him,
(42:52):
I know, I didn't love I didn't love the legendary
draft room stuff. I thought it was a lack of
little self awareness. But again, you're twenty one, you're twenty two.
You know we were all running around pulling fire hydrants
in college. So I mean, you know, you know, you know,
the pull the lever in college dorm rooms. We're all
(43:14):
idiots at some point, we all had, you know, lack
of judgment or self awareness. I'm not going to crush
anybody for that, but I think he's really I think
he's really talented, and I think you're seeing it.
Speaker 10 (43:24):
J Mack.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
We're calling it for Ohio. Oh boy, you know what else?
Speaker 8 (43:32):
You know?
Speaker 2 (43:32):
I train has left the station and it's may for
shud dor standers.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
Okay, got it? Okay Ota stats, that's a new one.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
Let me let me just throw this at you. Back
to Oklahoma City. So, like when you lose a playoff
series or are losing a playoff series. We've talked about
this with the Knicks's like you kind of see what
doesn't work against an elite team. Brunson and Kat on
the floor in the Anna kind of abuses them. So
you probably want to move off Cat. You could keep
(44:02):
him if you added another catch and shoot guy. But
you can see your problems when you face an elite team.
Like you watch the t Wolves and you're like, oh,
you know, Julius Randall is it was fun, But boy,
when you play okc's defense. He is really limited and
ant isn't there yet. So you great teams are clarity.
Like when Andrew Locke came into the NFL and was
eleven and five with a bad roster, You're like, oh, yeah,
(44:24):
that's what great is. You can be eleven and five
without a Pro Bowl or anywhere near the offense. But
but here's another takeaway and I'll get into it later.
The t Wolves ran the Lakers out of the building
and can't compete against OKC. So for all those thinking
we're inches away, the t Wolves bodied the Lakers, physically
(44:49):
pushed them around. Dude, they could not compete in this series.
They had one really good game one of five. So
I'm just saying greatness creates clarity. If you think you're
closed or you think you're flawless, but you don't think
you have vulnerabilities. Oklahoma City Indiana Pacers show you the truth,
(45:13):
and you have to grasp the truth. You have to
embrace the truth. You can't push back and be defensive.
But Laker fans Minnesota bodied you. They got blown out
of the building in this series.
Speaker 3 (45:25):
Colin, I love it.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
You know.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
I can't help my son with eighth grade math he's
doing like the advanced math.
Speaker 3 (45:30):
It's hard.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
I don't I have to ask jat GBT okay, but
I do remember in elementary school there were these all
these math properties if A plus B equal C. Just
because Minnesota smashed the Lakers, it does not mean that
the Lakers can't beat OKAC.
Speaker 3 (45:45):
They match up great with OKC.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
That essentially, the Thunder had two rounds to watch Anthony
Edwards and they were like, Oh, here's how we stop him.
Let's put up a picket wall at the free throw
line and say you're not getting in the lane.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
We'll go go ahead and have Jaydon.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
McDade, you'll shoot the lights out or Julius Randall and
Minnesota didn't.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
Nobody else showed up for them in the series, and
it was it was a rap.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
I still I think your worst take in the NBA
playoffs has been the Lakers are far off. I think
you're way way wrong there. But again, maybe I'm being
a Lebron homer.
Speaker 8 (46:17):
Yeah, maybe
Thanks for listening to The Herd Podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Thanks
for listening to The Herd Podcast hour two on a
(00:25):
Memorial Day Monday. It's the Herd Wherever you may be, However,
you already watching your listener. Thanks for making us part
of your day. J mcmatt Hasselbeck is around the corner.
You've got a story on Caitlin Clark at the bottom
of the hour. Hope you had a great weekend. You
(00:46):
ran into Lebron James, you said, in a volleyball tournament.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Now a US Volleyball tournament. He attacked a big crowd. Hey,
quick question. Let me ask you, and I know you're
not a big social media guy. On weekends, You've got
a bubbly life out there in the Midwest. Do you
put something out about Caitlin Clark during one of her games?
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Do you see like a just a tsunami of a reaction.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Everybody seems to have thoughts on Kaitlin Clark is she's
probably more polarizing than any NBA player right now.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah, I don't get the polarizing. She's good. Yeah, let's
enjoy her. I don't get, like I understand. I do
understand a little bit of the animosity with players they
you know, it's like when Bryce Harper came in baseball,
nobody paid attention to us. Now you like the flashy
new player and her game is flashy, so I get
some animosity. But I always felt this. I remember when
Manny Ramirez left the Red Sox and he came back
(01:35):
and people were like, yeah, I don't know if I
like him, and my take his You're the Red Sox.
You could never beat the Yankees. I don't care what
you think of Kurt Shilling or Manny Ramirez. You beat
the Yankees. You won rings with them. Like, if somebody
makes my life better, like, I don't care if it's
your ex wife. If you had fifteen great years, appreciate it.
Those that's a big chapter in your life that was good.
(01:57):
So Kaitlin Clark's making everybody's life better. You can fly
Spirit Airlines or you can upgrade to private. That alone
is a thank you card in gift. I mean to me,
I don't get the polarization. All right, we do it
every Monday. Colin right, Colin wrong, and plenty of.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
Votes where Colin was right.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Well, my inclination was when the tush push got pushed through,
it was because of Jason Kelsey, the soon to be
Hall of Famer center for the Philadelphia Eagles, who stood
in front of the owners in a suit, got in
a stance and made a declaration that it was safe.
And the stories out today is Jason Kelsey indeed was
(02:38):
the reason. He changed about three to four votes that
it passed. Listen, the Health and Safety Committee of the
NFL wants to get rid of it, so it had
to be an influencer. It had to be somebody with
great conviction to sell it, an owner or a player
or a coach. And the reports are it was as
we speculated. Jason Kelsey was right. PFF came out last
(03:02):
week ranked quarterbacks, all of them. Dak Prescott was seventeenth,
one spot aheaded two him and that's exactly right. I
know y'all love him. He's a cowboy and he's rich,
and his intangibles from maturity to focus to leadership. I
agree they're a plus, but as a thrower of the football,
as an athlete, it's CC plus B minus. He is,
(03:26):
especially after a second major surgery, in the middle of
the pack, and I appreciate pff nailing where Colin was wrong.
The Lakers need a deal, Austin reeves. I don't get
the fascination, but Dan Woike reporting the organization loves him
and the only af to pay him next year fourteen million,
(03:47):
and they see him as an absolute steal. I see
him as a guy that got worked athletically against Minnesota's
wing players. I see him as a guy that should
be the fourth best player on a championship level team.
I think he's a little less talented than Derek White,
who I feel the same way about. If he's your
fourth best player, you should be buying for championships. But
(04:08):
I'm wrong, apparently.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Where Colin was right.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Insiders now saying Jeremy Fowler reports that Aaron Rodgers many
believe has his eye on Minnesota and that is why
he hasn't signed with Pittsburgh. It's not just necessarily the
personal reasons. I don't know it to be true, but
I have speculated he's too smart to think Pittsburgh's a
good fit. Burrow twice a year with better offensive teammates
(04:37):
and a better offensive coach Lamar Jackson in a better
organization twice a year. Pittsburgh is a bunch of ls,
even with Aaron Rodgers, and I think he knows it.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Where Colin was right, zach.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Ede made the All Rookie Team. The former produce star
I didn't understand the pushback on him. Mark Few came
on our show and said he never faced an offensive
college player that unstoppable. Dan Hurley came on the Herd
and said, the NBA doesn't know what they're talking about.
He's going to work in this league and for Memphis.
He made the All Rookie team. He's a guy that
(05:11):
just kept grinding. He got better sophomore to junior, junior's
senior year, and I think you're going to see continued improvement.
He clearly has an excellent work ethic.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Where Colin was wrong.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
The Eagles signed an extension in Nick Siriani. You know,
I don't quite get the vibe. I think there's a
lot of circumstances like Howie Roseman and Jalen Hurts and
Sae Kwon Barkley in the old line that elevated him.
But you know what, the players like him. I don't
have to get everybody. I mean, Philadelphia is a loud,
high volume, high intensity town, and there's an argument he
(05:45):
fits the Eagles more than any other team. So I
can take a wrong on that where Colin was right. Oh,
Jordan Hudson reportedly wearing a new ring and not wanted
Belichick's Super Bowl rings. That could be an engagement ring
since I'm the only American media member that does appear
to approve of this relationship, once again proving I am
(06:06):
not only America's honesty broker, but I'm a hopeless romantic.
I see it working. I think they like each other.
Relationships can be complicated, but there is a report that
they have a future, that these two are a real thing.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
Where Colin was right.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
NBA Western Finals between Minnesota and OKC is a ratings
dud I said, I think the Knicks Pacers is going
to get great numbers and it has. This is not
a needle mover. Sga is not a dynamic player. He's
just a great score. It's a small market and Minnesota
is not a huge basketball brand, So it doesn't surprise
me that this is just not moving the needle. Like
(06:45):
I think tonight could be the best game of the series.
If Minnesota wins it, I think that helps. If OKC wins,
I think the ratings are just going to be abysmal.
We've had this before, Duncan in the Spurs when they
were running the league. We're not a captivating team. Funkin
was great, but he was a big fundamental. He wasn't dynamic,
he wasn't a big personality.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
It happens where Colin was raw.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Kenny Pickett, now viewed as the front runner for the
Cleveland Browns quarterback gick. I don't get it. Just I'm
gonna die on this hill. Shador Sanders is going to
win this job. Picket's on his third team in four
years in his NFL career, fifteen touchdowns, fourteen picks. I
don't get it. You know, nice kid. I think he's
a backup. I think he loves football. But I said
(07:32):
it when he came out. He's more of a second
mid third round pick. He didn't pop on TV. He
did have one great college play where he was going
to slide. He faked it, stood ran we all ran
on a thousand times, but I don't see it as
a franchise quarterback.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in neon eastern nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
So Matt Hasselback yesterday on our show assured us that
Aaron Rodgers is going to be a Pittsburgh Steeler. May
very well be a Pittsburgh Steeler. I don't know he was.
He was recently. He was doing a Q and A
in front of people. Aaron was, And again, when you're
performative in front of people, you may say things that
in the moment gets the crowd worked up. Or I'm
(08:14):
not holding Aaron to every word of a public podcast
or a public talk. People say things, but it does
sound like there's a story out there. I think Aaron
said he would play for ten million dollars. That tells
me that money's not driving him. He also said recently,
I'm not going to play for the Saints. I don't
(08:35):
want to live in Indianapolis. That tells me where he
played plays matters. And this sounds like he's not that
far from retirement.
Speaker 5 (08:46):
I've thought about that and I don't understand what the
what the reason for that is. You know, at the
same time, I grew up a Niner fan and most
of my my favorite players reached as a Nighter. So
I understand the cool thing about it. But if I
didn't do it, would that make a difference in how
(09:08):
I'm viewed in the packer's eyes. There's a lot of
love for me and how I feel about the team.
If I do, if I don't, I don't think you
should make a difference. I'm not sure yet. If they
approached me about it, I probably would.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Yeah, Aaron's saying, you know, if they approached me about playing,
I probably would. Well, they have Jordan Love. So you're
saying you'd be a backup. And so you're saying you
would close your career and you're still a starting quarterback
in this league. You've aged, but you're still a starting quarterback.
So you're basically saying, is I'd go be a backup
for Green Bay. Wow, that's something you'd play for ten million.
(09:41):
That's something I don't want to play in Louisiana. That's
something These are your words, but I was saying when
the show ended yesterday, I said, you know there's two
quarterbacks in the history of great quarterbacks. I've never quite
known what to do with Dan Marino and Aaron Rodgers.
Because whereas baseball is about staff, stats are really important
for baseball people, and basketball style and culture is really important,
(10:08):
and football it's about winning big games. That's why Elway,
who didn't throw as pretty a ball as Marino, is
here and Marino's much lower. John got to the big
game more even if he lost it. And to me,
there's always been four or five things when you start
counting everything for the great quarterbacks, I want to know
your Super Bowl appearances and wins. Don't have to win
(10:30):
all of them. I'm not looking for six for six.
I want division titles so you at least dominate your division.
You may have somebody like Brady or Peyton Manning in
your conference, but you at least dominate your division. I
obviously want a lot of productivity. I want your playoff record.
Those are your biggest games, whether you win all of them,
but I want you to have some impressive playoff resume
(10:52):
stuff and I'll count MVPs are a personal award, but
they mean something. It means a high level of play
amongst your peers. I will not count passer rating. Tua
and Jimmy Garoppolo, Deshaun Watson and Russell Wilson have a
significantly higher passer rating than Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and
Josh Allen. I know Aaron has the best passer rating
(11:15):
of all time. I do not care. Passer rating does
not matter. It's like NBA Coach of the Year Phil
Jackson has won. It's an irrelevant award. I think the
people who win it put the plaque in their garage,
behind the rakes and the brooms. It just doesn't matter.
And passer rating means nothing to me. MVPs signify amongst
(11:38):
your peers. You are the best that season, so that matters.
But when you look at Marino and Aaron Rodgers, they're
not close. Aaron's been to one Super Bowl, had one
great playoff run, eleven and ten in the playoffs Division titles, Yes,
(11:59):
and impressive, But what do I do with that? Where
do I put that? Because when you put him in
that group of all time great quarterbacks Brady, Montana, Elway, Mahomes, Peyton, Bradshaw,
Farv Aikman, Young, not even Marino matches up. And I've
said this before, Well, Marino, Marino and Aaron are the same,
(12:25):
really talented. You may have the two best releases I've
ever seen esthetically pleasing, but relative to talent, they didn't
win enough. I mean, Dan Marino had Don Shula, arguably
the best coach of all time, still didn't dominate his division,
(12:45):
one great playoff run, and had good teammates. Aaron always
had a good old line, always had an offensive coach.
In much of Aaron's career, the Lions were awful, the
Bears were egregiously bad, and Minnesota was never great, although
they had some great players, they were kind of good.
And yet Kirk Cousins went five hundred the minute he
(13:08):
got into that division against Aaron. So I've never understood
exactly if Aaron retired today. It's again, this is not basketball.
It's not about style, it's not about culture. It's winning
big games. If you think about Aaron Rodgers all time
greatest playoff moments, one jumps out the Jared Cook throw
(13:29):
against Dallas. It may be as good as anything I've
ever seen. But Eli Manning, who I didn't put on
that board, has two of those, David Tyree and Mario
manningham and he's got two super Bowls over Brady and Belichick.
Manning's also what got What do I do? What do
I do with Eli? He's like Philip Rivers. If Philip
(13:50):
Rivers won Super Bowls? What do I do? So the thing,
and I've said this with both Marino and Aaron Rodgers,
it's hard to quantify super Bowls, division titles, productivity, winning
big games, iconic moments, they're everything else. I'll give them
(14:11):
the MVPs. Those matter. But I was looking at passer
rating this morning. I just it's nonsense. And this is
and I've always my belief has always been Aaron at
the end of his career played to protect his passer rating.
If he threw an interception or two, he shut it down.
He played to protect that all time number one passer rating.
(14:34):
And it's great. It's just an inch above Mahomes and
Lamar Jackson. But Peyton Mannings is sixteenth, Kurt Warners is nineteenth,
Josh Allen is twenty third. In fact, Derek Carr and
Josh Allen are neck and neck on passer rating. I
can't count that. That can't be a thing if you
don't have if you have one NBA finals appearance as
(14:57):
a coach. But you've won the Coach of the Year
four times. I'm putting you below Phil Jackson. I'm sorry,
I gotta put your bow. Well, Phil had Michael Jordan,
Doug Collins had him, Stan Albrick had him. Well, I
mean Phil had Kobe Bryant. So did Del Harris. I
don't want to hear it. His New York next day
may have been a mess. I don't want to hear it,
(15:18):
all right, j Mac Also, Nick Wright is on at
the top of the hour. I will hold hold.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
I cannot let some of that slide.
Speaker 6 (15:24):
You know.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
I'm out on Rogers because he screwed the Jets. He
was terrible, he got it, blah blah.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
That's all right, But I do have to put in
some context, like Eli Manning was great in two.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Super Bowl games two games. Aaron Rodgers has been great
for seasons. Yes, what matters more to you.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
A sixteen game season sample size.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Where he won four MVPs or a game for he
won one Super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Well, it's obvious Aaron is rated, and I would rate
him higher than Eli Manning as a quarterback.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
And that's where it gets difficult because it's like are
we dinging Rogers too much for not getting to enough
super Bowls.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Not winning enough and pumping up Eli because of you?
Speaker 1 (16:10):
No, no, up front, I think Eli Manning is absolutely
fairly categorized as a Hall of Famer, but not a
top fifteen quarterback. Nobody thinks he's a top fifteen quarterback.
But you can't beat Belichick and Brady in their prime
twice have two iconic throws and go, well, I don't
know he's Philip Rivers. No he's not. So nobody is
(16:33):
saying I would never insinuate that Aaron's below Eli. So
obviously regular season MVPs and stats and productivity matter a lot.
But again, we're talking all time top ten twelve guys.
Everything is something. Nothing's everything, but everything is something. So
in my take is with Aaron and Marino, if you're
(16:54):
going to count them up against Brady and Montana and
Elway and Mahomes, and you're gonna get ding for getting
to one super bit.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
So do you have l Way above Aaron Rodgers?
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Yes? Yes, yes, yes, absolutely, I think yeah. I don't
even again, I grew up, you know, I'm watching John
Elway's career. I was a Seahawk fan right like I
saw him live. I saw John Elway leadership fourth quarter comebacks.
I think he's one of a short group.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon eastern non am Pacific.
Speaker 7 (17:33):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together We're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You could catch
us weekdays from five to seven pm Eastern two to
four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the
iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich.
We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
Going on in the world.
Speaker 7 (17:51):
We have a lot of fun talking about the stories
behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture,
stories that well, other shows don't seem to have the
time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends
for the last twenty years and still work together.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
I mean that says something, right.
Speaker 8 (18:04):
So check us out.
Speaker 7 (18:05):
We like to get you involved, to take your phone calls,
chop it up. As they say, I'd say the most
interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the.
Speaker 8 (18:13):
Most interactive show on planetar.
Speaker 7 (18:15):
Be sure to check out Cavino and Rich Live on
Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app from five to
seven pm Eastern two to four Pacific, and if you
miss any of the live show, just search Covino and
Rich wherever you get your podcasts, and of course on
social media.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
That's Covino and Rich hour two. Indiana Pacers have taken
control of the series. Indiana has played fourteen playoff kids.
They're owing three in game threes when they lead to zero.
When they've taken control of the series, winning on the
(18:50):
road at Milwaukee, at Cleveland, at New York, they go
into the other team's place, steal both games. They come
home foot on the gas, let's off a little, and
they've lost one game in each series. Game three, that's it.
Otherwise they were eleven and zero in the urgency games
(19:10):
games one and two, four, five, six, they're eleven and er.
And Halliburton statline last night maybe the most impressive thing
I've ever seen in my life. Thirty two fifteen ten
and no turnovers. That is beyond hyper efficiency. That is insane.
That'd be like an NFL quit. That's what Jaden Daniels
(19:30):
did last year. But he would go like thirty of
thirty four with no turnovers. What It's just it's against
the defensive coach and a defensive team. And the other
thing is and you saw this with Magic Johnson. You
see this with a truly great point guard. You see
this with Chris Paul. Remember when Chris Paul was in LA,
like Blake Griffin was like is he a top three
(19:51):
or four player in the league? And DeAndre Jordan was
nothing but buckets. And then Chris Paul leaves those two
players and they're not the same players. You see all
the holes in their game. I like Pascal Siakam. He
looks all NBA first team playing with Aliburton thirty two,
fifteen ten and no turnovers. Here's Ali after.
Speaker 9 (20:11):
I feel like we're making up stats at at some
point to make me look better. I was just trying
to be aggressive, man, just trying to play my best,
you know. I feel like I let the team down
in Game three, feel like I could have been so
much better. So I feel like I responded the right
way today.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
The only time I haven't liked Indiana in this series
was when they had Halliburton off the floor end of
the third quarter in Game three and the start of
the fourth and they lost their rhythm. And this is
a rhythm team, and it's a rhythm team because of Halliburton.
And then he came back in. He got him back
on track, but it just it felt like they lost
their mojo. So like every time he goes to the bench,
(20:51):
if Brunson goes to the bench, Kat can score more.
The Knicks don't necessarily go into a cave. Halliburton's off
the floor. It's like it's like white knuckle time. You're like, okay,
all right, let's make sure this thing works. He is
all time specih. I love watching him play, and I
think it's a great personality with that. Greg Olsen joining
us live fourteen years in the NFL, Fox Sports Awnly,
(21:13):
it's great, great broadcaster. By the way, tight End University
is back, it's fifth year in Nashville in June twenty
three to the twenty six. I want to ask you
about that because part of what you do, which I
think is the most underdiscussed part of your sport is
film study. And Caleb Williams was recently quoted talking about
(21:33):
the Bears, a team you played for and loved playing for.
He's like, yeah, I'd watched film alone, and I don't
you know, I'm not in those rooms. When you hear
that he watched film alone, what was your interpretation of that.
How's that land for you?
Speaker 10 (21:50):
Yeah, it lands as you would expect. It's just it's
hard for me to believe that that was the case.
And I'm not saying he's not being genuine. I've been
in three day different organizations, multiple different head coaches, multiple
different quarterbacks. I've never heard of a guy not having
the opportunity to watch film with his position coach, let
(22:11):
alone the quarterback, not you know, between the quarterback coach,
the offensive coordinator, someone there. It's hard for me to
believe that the organization would let their young rookie watch
film by himself. But with that being said, yeah, it
is though an element of the sport that there is
a little bit of a learning curve. I don't think
most young guys coming out of college unless you just
(22:34):
happen to be playing for you know, the right coach,
the right position, coach, coordinator, whoever at the college level
to teach you the art of film studying. I think
we just have a joke like we're not in here
watching movies, right. There's a lot of guys that put
the game on play. One and they just go play one,
play two, play three, and they just go through the
sequence of a game. You know, yes, you're watching film,
(22:56):
are you really getting the tendencies and really know what
you're looking at to study? My experience is most guys
have to learn that. Most guys have to learn that
over the career. How I watched film in my fourteenth
year was wildly different than how I watched it my
first and second year. And I think it's up to
the organization. It's up to the coach, especially at the
(23:17):
quarterback position, where there is no greater responsibility than understanding
not only everything of what your team's doing, but of
course what the opposing team is doing defensively. So I
can't imagine Ben Johnson's going to let that go on
at all. So I think for Caleb Williams and his development,
the right guy now is in control in Chicago, both
over the team and then obviously offensively with what Ben
(23:39):
Johnson can do. But yeah, when I read that report,
I kind of did a ooh, like true, not true,
scales of truth whatever. There's always probably two sides to
every story. But just the fact that that was even
suggested is not a great is not a great reflection
of the organization for sure.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
But by the way, did you and Cam, for instance,
film study. Would you sit down with Cam and go, Dude,
this guy this guy in the flats week like, is
that a real thing?
Speaker 8 (24:08):
Oh?
Speaker 10 (24:08):
Absolutely? So we had a great routine, so it was
actually kind of fun. So most of the meetings from
when we got there in the morning were all controlled
by the coaches. It was small group meetings, offensive install
then we'd have practice, then we'd have post practice review
where we'd watch the practice film. So there was opportunities
to you know, hey, coach, take a second, Cam, here's
why I ran this flat. Here's why, And you're watching
(24:30):
practice film or you're watching and the opportunity to go.
But there's thirty five guys in the room, it's not
really the opportunity for the two of you to have
your own conversation. But then at the end of the
day when everything officially with the coaches ended, the tight
end and the quarterback room in Carolina.
Speaker 8 (24:45):
We're right next to each other.
Speaker 10 (24:46):
We literally shared a wall, so he'd be in his
room with some of the quarterbacks and I'd be doing
Sometimes I liked being by myself at the end of
the day just for my own prep and notes and whatnot.
And I knew he was right next door, so I
would pop over and be like, hey, I need you
to come to take a look.
Speaker 8 (25:00):
At this, and say, hey, look at the way the
safety's hips.
Speaker 10 (25:03):
Are you okay If I take this a couple of
yards deeper, am I going to throw off your timing?
And most of the time Cam was just like, get open,
I'm good. But then sometimes he'd be like, I can't
hold it that long, or it messes up with my
timing of my footwork, or I don't like the way
your body language looks on there because you kind of
fooled me. I wasn't sure when you were going to
come out of your break. I need less at the top.
(25:24):
So like that, dialogue in meetings on the field was NonStop.
And when you can play with one guy for as
long as we did over time, I knew his answer
before I even had to ask him, and vice versa,
because we had talked through so many scenarios over so
many days, you know, for those nine years together.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
So Cam was a mover. Caleb's a mover. Cam Ward
is a mover like I like Cam a lot, and
I think Tennessee could be a playoff team. Tell the
audience when you do have Caleb Williams and he can
add lib Now, I think the Bears online is better.
He won't have to do it as much. But some
of these guys, like Cam, cam Warden, Caleb, they're just
naturally gifted. It's like if you have a great voice,
you sing in the shower, like that's just the reality
(26:06):
of their game. When you have a mobile quarterback, does
it make it harder for tight ends and does it
make it harder in film studies so much as that live.
Speaker 8 (26:16):
Yeah, it's a great question.
Speaker 10 (26:17):
So I think what we're seeing right now in the
NFL is you can't play I should say with uncertainty.
The vast majority of guys cannot play NFL quarterback if
you don't have some level of improv right, some level
of playing off script, off platform, all the words, the
buzzwords that get thrown around, but the ability to buy time,
(26:39):
escape pocket pressure, and still stay active as a quarterback
and not always just rely on being a runner, stay
active as a passer. I mean, now, you also can't
only playoff script. You can't only play improv quarterback at
the NFL, there's no timing, there's no rhythm. The tackles
don't know your depth of your drop, The guards don't
know the depth of the pocket. Might blocking for you
(27:00):
to be at five and a half yards or are
you going to be outside the hash marks running with
your life. If I'm a quarterback, if I'm a wide
receiver or a tight end, I need to know at
the top of my break when I get my head around,
am I looking to find you behind the center at
seven yards? Or is there a chance that you've already
broken contained and you're outside the pocket and now I
need to get into scramble drilled. So there is a
(27:21):
balance to it all. You can't just stand in one
spot and be a statue in today's NFL. And you
also can't just play recess football running around. It's not sustainable.
So I think that the blend of don't take what's
special out of these guys, don't take it out of
their game. If you have the ability to move and improvise,
encourage them to do it, but just give them boundaries,
(27:43):
give them parameters of saying, Okay, I need you to
hit your fifth step of your drop, and it's a
progression pass or it's a half field read or whatever
the play calls for. After you've exhausted all of that,
if the opportunity there is to extend and create plays
outside the rhythm of the game, We're never going to
take you away. But it can't be hit your back
foot and run around because we can't support you doing
(28:07):
that every single play from a protection and a route concept.
So there is a little give and take, and I
think that's something that Ben Johnson has proven. He's coached
multiple different types of quarterbacks. He had a guy in
golf who really was stationary in rhythm, in timing, get
the ball out of his hand. He will have a
little bit of a different flavor for a guy like
Caleb where he does get that rhythm progression passer in
(28:31):
the offense because you need it, but then also encourage
him to use his athleticism because it is very challenging
for defenses to play off script and defend that.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Long before I get to the tight end. You the
tush push. You know, as a guy that was a
willing blocker. My guess was you like it? Do you
like the tush bush?
Speaker 8 (28:53):
I do?
Speaker 10 (28:54):
I think it would be an extremely unfair and wrong
to Philadelphia, who has really some teams have done it
here and there, no one has even come remotely close
to doing it as efficiently as often and used it
as such a fabric of their offensive philosophy, from how
they manage third downs knowing they got a yard and
(29:14):
a half in their back pocket, how they call first
and second down plays knowing they have a fourth down
in their back pocket, goal to go situations like it
is a not just a play, it is really a
centerpiece of the entire fabric philosophy that Sirianni has built
with that offense.
Speaker 8 (29:31):
In Jalen hurt.
Speaker 10 (29:31):
So I think to remove that from a team who
has found a play that they're uniquely good at, just
because the rest of the league is tired of trying
to find ways to defend it, I don't agree with.
My gut tells me they are going to eventually ban it.
I think it came so close this year at the
owners meeting. Typically those things don't come back. They typically
continue to move forward and getting the other side to flip.
(29:54):
I hope I'm wrong, because I think Philly has earned
the right to use that in their offen.
Speaker 8 (30:01):
I don't think the lineman loved doing it.
Speaker 10 (30:03):
I don't think they love being at the bottom of
the pile on you know, seven times a game, five
times a game. But when you're winning Super Bowls and
you tell me I got to mush a guy out
of there and get my back right, I'll do that.
Speaker 8 (30:14):
I'll do that to win the Super Bowl.
Speaker 10 (30:16):
So I'll be curious to see how it plays out.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Finally, I think, you know, people were complaining a couple
of years ago about you know, running backs don't make
any money. It's unfair. And my take has been, well,
tight ends have been under paid my entire life. They
have to block the best athlete on defense, and they
have to catch, they have to do most of the
dirty work, and then they're one of the last positions.
(30:41):
I guess this has changed that you can really take
a shot at as a defensive player. So when you
have your Nashville tight end university and you have all
these young guys in what is something you preach to
young tight ends a high school tight end? It's not
all catching, Like, is there something that do you deliver
a message a harsh message to all these young tight
(31:03):
ends that I wouldn't think about.
Speaker 10 (31:06):
Yeah, And it's actually a very simple message. And you know,
we get into route running, and we got Kelsey given,
you know, really high level coverage recognition and how to
use leverage and breaking and finding space and a lot
of this stuff. I kind of look and I laugh,
and I'm like, Kelsey, like, not everyone can do what
you're talking about right now because.
Speaker 8 (31:23):
It's super advanced.
Speaker 10 (31:24):
And him and Mahomes and then you got Kittle talking
run game and footwork and hand placement and fight and
you know, these guys are just so unique. But obviously
they have a lot of experience and a lot of
understanding of the position. But the message that we try
to deliver, at least the one I try to deliver
to all of our guys, to your point, is the
best opportunity to have success at tight end, especially at
(31:47):
a higher level, is to be able to be trusted
to be on the field on every snap. And that's
going to be your best case for production, catches, yards, opportunities,
how much you get paid, the impact on the offense,
all of it. If you could be the best pass
catching tight end in football or the best run blocking
tight end in football, but if I can only use that,
(32:09):
I can only use you in package of the offense.
At times where those skill sets are warranted, you still
are going to play in the NFL. You are still
going to be able to find a roster spot because
those skills have value. But if you want to be
a legit guy, you want to catch eighty balls, you
want to have a thousand yards. The only reason I
ever caught a thousand yards Colin was because I knew.
(32:31):
I went into every game and there was like four
to six real routes downfield twenty plus yards that were
designed for me. But of that four to six, I
needed the right protection, the right play call, did the
play ever get called in the first place, against the
right coverage? And then did I catch it was the throw.
There's so many factors of those four to six. If
(32:53):
I got two or three of those, that was a
great day. But now you got three catches for fifty
five yards. But now I caught a flat route, I
caught a first and second down checkdown because I'm on
the field. I caught a short yardage goal, a short
yardage pass, a goal line pass, and next thing you know,
I'd finished with seven for ninety and it wasn't the
(33:14):
flashy play. So if I'm only on the field for
the flashy plays. I never catch the easy ones. And
if I'm only good enough to be on the field
in goal line and short yardage because I'm a blocker,
I don't catch a third and eight dig across the
middle for twenty five. So being on the field and
providing value to your team no matter that down and distance,
you're not looking to the sideline. What personnel package are
(33:36):
they calling? If I'm on the huddle every single play,
even if I'm not the best at anything, my ability
to raise my value and raise my earnings, my production,
all of it go up. So that's our message to them,
be good enough at everything, and it's a much easier road.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Great stuff, great broadcaster, Fox Sports. It's tight end to you.
It's a Nashville the twenty third of the twenty sixth,
a great American city in Tennessee. Good seeing you, my man,
Good seeing you man.
Speaker 8 (34:05):
Have a great summer.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in neon eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Last night in a laugh for not much of a game.
And I understand this. I have said during the Pacers
Knicks series. Stop beating up on the Knicks. It's about
the Pacers. They have the best point guard and the
best offense and the best pace in the league. And
I feel like this with Minnesota, like they're not as
good as Okay, see, they don't have they don't have
the depth, they don't have the youth, they don't have
(34:37):
multiple guys who can score like that, and so it's
just I feel like we should kind of honor okac
a SGA more than Hammer Minnesota.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Oh a reasonable take to start the show call, and
I like it.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
I like it, So.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Let's start with that obviously. Okay, see that game was
over about seven minutes. The great thing about SGA, of
the many great things, what I really like is he
is delivering and fulfilling everything I've been told Jason Tatum
does but doesn't really. Last year, the Celtics going their
championship run, Jalen Brown's the MVP of the Eastern Conference Finals,
(35:11):
Jalen Brown's the Finals MVP, and Jalen Brown's the aggressor
and often the initiator. SGA wants the ball, is always
the aggressor, and he plays Williams Homered He's got multiple
great players around him, but he is clearly the alpha.
And that's all I ever asked with Tatum and got pushedback.
(35:33):
You know, that's I'm holding Jason Tatum to the standard
you guys all lectured me on for years on Lebron
when Lebron didn't take the shot. He's the alpha, He's
the one. If he wants to be MJ he's got
to always take the shot. Okay, Well, that's the standard
of SGA and Yokich right now. Like like, I think
both Jokic and SGA can elevate teammates, and clearly do
(35:59):
elevate teammates. But there is no question in this Oklahoma
City room or that Denver locker room, or in the
huddle or any time there's a late possession who's the man.
And I mean, we could crush the t Wolves right
They were awful. Their effort was weak. But this series
(36:20):
is not about the t Wolves and the Knicks pacers,
which I think will end soon. It is not really
about the Knicks failures. Indiana is the best offense in
the league with the best pace. OKAC is easily the
best defense and the greatest score. I mean, SGA is
only the fourth player in twenty years to win the
MVP and reach the finals. The other three Steph, Kobe,
(36:42):
and Lebron. I don't know that feels historic to me,
So I just I look at them. Between SGA and
Okac's defense, this is gonna be a great final. I
get the best offense, I get the best defense, I
get the best point guard, and I get the best score.
(37:02):
And I know it's not catchy, and I know it
doesn't sound, you know, dynamic, but I think SGA's nickname
should be the standard. This is the standard for a
true number one in the locker room, in the huddle,
every big possession. He is a number one has to
(37:22):
be dominating, offensively, understood by all, even his talented teammates,
debilitating to your defense, an adult, consistent number one on
the bus, on the plane, in the room. SG Alpha
the Western Conference Finals, undisputed MVP. This is not about
(37:48):
Minnesota's failures. It's about a historic player. He's one of
three guys in league history to have thirty points five
plus assists at least ten times in the playoffs, m
Jan Lebron of the other two, this kid is special.
Every time he talks every time he leads, you just
see what a one should be. And here he is
(38:10):
after winning the conference finals, MVP.
Speaker 6 (38:14):
Yeah, it's a really good feeling. I think stuff you
jim about as a kid. And then of course I
want to thank my teammates. Without them, I'm nothing. Claire's Dave.
I don't have one hundred and twenty four point by myself.
I love these guys to death. With all that being said,
this is a step.
Speaker 8 (38:31):
In the right direction.
Speaker 6 (38:31):
But we have a lot more work to do and
we know that and that's what we're focused on.
Speaker 4 (38:34):
So I buckle up and get ready.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
Listen. They won by an average margin of twelve point
nine points per game, and I understand, like veteran teams
in the regular season, don't give it. You know, Lebron's
going to take some night offs, and the older players,
you know, they're dinged up a little bit. I understand
their youth is a big component to it. But here's
what else is. This is as good a defensive team
(39:00):
as I remember now. Detroit Pistons were great, but you
could tackle back then. That was a little different. But
given what you can do now, you can't really you
can't handcheck, you can't use that forearm on your back
given what you're allowed to do by NBA protocol and rules.
This is the best defense I've ever seen. They hound,
(39:20):
They confound their aggressive to rim protectors on the back end.
Even SGA plays defense, and as long like this is
as good as defense gets. So we can bang on Minnesota.
But they're not built to beat this team. Julius Randol's
probably a three, not of two. Go Beart's got no offense,
conly great veteran presence, not an offensive threat, and ant
(39:45):
just isn't there yet to single handedly beat this offense.
Way to go? Okay, See all right, listen, I don't
want to make a big deal out of this, but
some pretty the interesting information trickled over my phone from
the Cleveland browns Ota yesterday. I'm not great at math,
(40:10):
but let's put the numbers up for the television audience.
It appears in the four quarterback derby.
Speaker 6 (40:18):
Hmm.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Again, not a mathematician, but one of them has more
tds than completions. That feels important to me. Despite the
fact that Shaduur Sanders had the fewest attempts, he was
the most efficient and most productive with the fewest reps.
So the quarterback tracker for those radio audience members. Flacco
(40:44):
was nine for fourteen in a touchdown, Piket nine for sixteen,
no touchdown, Dylan Gabriel eleven of sixteen, two touchdowns on
a pick, and Sanders seven of nine, three touchdowns, no picks.
This I've seen enough. I'm calling in a rap. The
Herd newsroom is calling it in Ohio by a landslide.
(41:08):
Shadoor Sanders should be starting. We are calling Ohio as
the projected winner in a race that is not as
close as the fake news projected. You can keep selling
me on Picket. You can keep selling me on Dylan Gabriel.
Now Flacco, I buy flacoh. I like he's one of
(41:29):
one of my favorite guys that's ever played in the league.
He's like everybody likes Flaco, and I think he's gonna
win the starting job. Initially, I really like Flaco, but
I'm calling it. I'm calling it for Shador and here's
Flacco on Shadur.
Speaker 11 (41:45):
Shador has been great. I mean, he's a lot of
fun to be around in those meeting rooms. And I
think once I think so far there's been you know,
at least once in the media room that he's He's
made me crack a smile, and that's what it's all about.
You know, he's a young guy trying to learn some
football and come out here and practice well and do
those things. And like I said, you've been a lot
(42:05):
of fun.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Okay, you know, people either everybody's trying to sell you.
I mean, TikTok's selling you. IG's selling you using filters.
Everybody is selling you stuff. Now people are talking about
the election that wasn't for Biden and was for Trump.
Everybody's selling me their takes. You all keep selling me.
I got scouts telling me he's a fifth or a
(42:27):
six round talent all I know, with very average personnel
outside of Travis Hunter, against the very best teams he played,
they didn't win games, but he was highly productive, and
a lot of college quarterbacks against the best teams with
better teammates weren't as productive size, movement, accuracy. I like him,
(42:52):
I know, I didn't love I didn't love the legendary
draft room stuff. I thought it was a lack of
little self awareness. But again, you're twenty one, you're twenty two.
You know we were all running around pulling fire hydrants
in college. So I mean, you know, you know, you know,
the pull the lever in college dorm rooms. We're all
(43:14):
idiots at some point, we all had, you know, lack
of judgment or self awareness. I'm not going to crush
anybody for that, but I think he's really I think
he's really talented, and I think you're seeing it.
Speaker 10 (43:24):
J Mack.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
We're calling it for Ohio. Oh boy, you know what else?
Speaker 8 (43:32):
You know?
Speaker 2 (43:32):
I train has left the station and it's may for
shud dor standers.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
Okay, got it? Okay Ota stats, that's a new one.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
Let me let me just throw this at you. Back
to Oklahoma City. So, like when you lose a playoff
series or are losing a playoff series. We've talked about
this with the Knicks's like you kind of see what
doesn't work against an elite team. Brunson and Kat on
the floor in the Anna kind of abuses them. So
you probably want to move off Cat. You could keep
(44:02):
him if you added another catch and shoot guy. But
you can see your problems when you face an elite team.
Like you watch the t Wolves and you're like, oh,
you know, Julius Randall is it was fun, But boy,
when you play okc's defense. He is really limited and
ant isn't there yet. So you great teams are clarity.
Like when Andrew Locke came into the NFL and was
eleven and five with a bad roster, You're like, oh, yeah,
(44:24):
that's what great is. You can be eleven and five
without a Pro Bowl or anywhere near the offense. But
but here's another takeaway and I'll get into it later.
The t Wolves ran the Lakers out of the building
and can't compete against OKC. So for all those thinking
we're inches away, the t Wolves bodied the Lakers, physically
(44:49):
pushed them around. Dude, they could not compete in this series.
They had one really good game one of five. So
I'm just saying greatness creates clarity. If you think you're
closed or you think you're flawless, but you don't think
you have vulnerabilities. Oklahoma City Indiana Pacers show you the truth,
(45:13):
and you have to grasp the truth. You have to
embrace the truth. You can't push back and be defensive.
But Laker fans Minnesota bodied you. They got blown out
of the building in this series.
Speaker 3 (45:25):
Colin, I love it.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
You know.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
I can't help my son with eighth grade math he's
doing like the advanced math.
Speaker 3 (45:30):
It's hard.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
I don't I have to ask jat GBT okay, but
I do remember in elementary school there were these all
these math properties if A plus B equal C. Just
because Minnesota smashed the Lakers, it does not mean that
the Lakers can't beat OKAC.
Speaker 3 (45:45):
They match up great with OKC.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
That essentially, the Thunder had two rounds to watch Anthony
Edwards and they were like, Oh, here's how we stop him.
Let's put up a picket wall at the free throw
line and say you're not getting in the lane.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
We'll go go ahead and have Jaydon.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
McDade, you'll shoot the lights out or Julius Randall and
Minnesota didn't.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
Nobody else showed up for them in the series, and
it was it was a rap.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
I still I think your worst take in the NBA
playoffs has been the Lakers are far off. I think
you're way way wrong there. But again, maybe I'm being
a Lebron homer.
Speaker 8 (46:17):
Yeah, maybe
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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