Colin Cowherd joins Jason to react live after an epic Game 7 of the NBA Finals between the Oklahoma City Thunder and Indiana Pacers. They discuss Shai Gilgeous-Alexander’s great game to earn Finals MVP, Jalen Williams and Chet Holmgren’s impact, and if OKC is set up for a dynasty. They also discuss Tyrese Haliburton’s injury and Pascal Siakam’s inspiring effort to keep Indy in the game. After that, they discuss the blockbuster trade between the Phoenix Suns and Houston Rockets sending Kevin Durant to join Alperen Sengun and Amen Thompson and Jalen Green & Dillon Brooks to Phoenix to join Devin Booker and Bradley Beal.
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(02:00):
All right, welcome to hoo tonight. You're at the volume
heavy Sunday. Everybody, hope all the guys are having a
great weekend. Well, today, I woke up this morning thinking
we're going to crown a new NBA champion today. It's
been a long time since we've had a Game seven
of the NBA Finals, and it got off to a
little bit of a bummer start as Tyre's Halliburton goes
down with what we can only assume is an achilles injury.
(02:20):
The eight Achilles tear in the NBA this season a
very bizarre trend, Colin and I are going to spend
some time talking about that towards the tail end of
the show tonight. But the Oklahoma City Thunder are the
twenty twenty five NBA champions, Colin, what's your big takeaway
from the NBA Finals this year?
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Well, our NFL champion Philadelphia is about roster construction and
the best GM, and you have a clear number one,
and that's Oklahoma City. Whereas the modern games about scoring
and wings and high flying, they're about their general manager,
their depth, their youth, their legs, and a kind of
(02:59):
non verse article leading score who goes against type. For
the NBA stars we fall in love with. And you
know I've been saying this on FS one, I've been
saying this for months. Is the NBA now because of
the Aprons and the CBA is going to be like
the NFL. We're going to talk more about general managers.
You can't stack players, and I think you know they
(03:20):
were the best team all season. The home court ended
up mattering against Indie and Denver, you know, really formidable
opponents that had some older star players. But you know,
I think in the end, you know, when you look
back at this season, you'll go, well, they were a
dominant regular season team. They weren't a great road team
(03:42):
in the playoffs, but they were dominant at home and
that's where they were crowned. And you know, that's why
the regular season does matter. It may not look like
the playoffs, but Oklahoma City, I don't think it's winning
this thing on the road, and so they earned it.
And you know, the the injuries, gutting, but that stuff happens.
(04:04):
I mean, Kd's gone down in big games. I mean
it happens. So and I think over the course of
this season, Okasey was the best team.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, I'm not interested in any talk about asterisks. For
the most part, in NBA history, almost every championship has
some injury you can point to that impacted things in
one way or another. And ultimately, I think Oklahoma City
did this to healthy teams along the way too.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
They played.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
They played some really good teams, Colin. They went through
the best the best player in the world and Nicola
Jokic and played him into the first three consecutive bad
game stretch I've literally ever seen him play. They took
that Minnesota team that was kicking everybody's butt and they
handled them like easily. And then the Pacers, who have
been the kind of the enigma of this of this
playoff run, every time they needed to beat them, they
(04:48):
were able to contain them and keep them under control.
You Know, we talked after Game five, like there is
this test that you have to pass to beat the
Oklahoma City Thunder, and it's that when the shit hits
the fan and there's a few minutes left in a
big game where the series is hanging in the balance,
they are going to tighten the screws defensively. In every
(05:10):
single series, the opposing team fell apart, whether it was
Denver at multiple spots in Game four in the fourth quarter,
in Game five in the fourth quarter, the entirety of
Game seven. What we saw in big spots against Minnesota,
specifically down the stretch of Game four. In this series,
in Game four, down the stretch, they just strangle the
life out of Indiana. In Game five, it's ninety five
(05:31):
ninety three off of a Siakam offensive rebound three. It's
a two point game. You're like, oh man, this could
go either way. Literally turns the Pacers over four consecutive
times just with the strength of their defense, and then
again tonight. You know, admirable effort from the Pacers there
in that first half to keep things competitive. TJ McConnell,
I'll always remember the way he played in this series.
(05:53):
What a remarkable performance from him. But they came out
the gates in that third quarter and they tightened the
screws and they turn the Pacers over and they got
out in transition. They finished this game with twenty three
forced turnovers in thirty two points off of turnovers. That's
the star of this team.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
I said this the other day to you, is the
one thing you have to have against OKAC is two
elite ball handlers. So when Halliburton goes down, they play
with guts and toughness and length, but in the end
they just it's turnovers. There's no Halliburton if you don't
have elite ball handlers against this team. I mean, we've
(06:31):
fallen in love with a three and D in the wings.
Well o case he's got a lot of them, but
there is a way to combat that is to have
guys that can create space that you can't trap and
double them. And TJ. McCall's excellent. But again, when Halliburton
got hurt the first time, again they show great courage
and gusto, but there's just limitations on that. You can
(06:51):
only play down your most important players so long. So
you know, there was that I think it was like
at one point there was a go I wrote it
down here. There was a huge nineteen to two Oklahoma
City run. A lot of that kick started by defense,
and so they just feast on teams and you know what,
you know what, they're a little bit like they're like
a fighter who sends his blood. Like, okay, see, they're
(07:15):
not dominant enough offensively to just blow you out against
great teams, against Denver and Indy. They can score, they
have runs, but when they sense blood, somebody's in foul, trouble,
somebody's hurt your start. You know, they have a matchup advantage. Man.
They play downhill, they play downhill fast, and you look
(07:36):
up and you're like, well, this was a four point game.
Now it's a thirteen point game. And you know that's
what great teams do. Their run looks different than a
Jordan explosion or a Shaq Kobe explosion, but nonetheless it's
a burst, and everybody looks different, you know. I mean,
so I listen all my notes here, I look through.
(08:00):
I kept waiting for the inevitable run, and it happened,
and it was you know, it was off turnovers, and
I just kind of felt like I saw an SRR stat.
I think that's what it's called, an SRR stat about Indiana.
And they said, if Indiana wins, they'll be the worst
champion since the nineteen seventy eight Washington Bullets, which by
(08:20):
the way, I can name the entire roster because it
was when I fell in love with basketball. But the
truth was is if Indiana one, it was probably our
weakest champion. Though I love them, and okaysee wins. At
least we can hang this boy, that's a top five
defensive team all time. We can hang something that sounds
(08:40):
like a champion, NBA's leading scorer, deepest team in years,
all time, top five defense that sounds like a champion,
does it not?
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Their defense is one of the great defenses that has
ever played in the NBA like that was true in
the metrics, and all we can do to tie that
case together is what the metrics showed in the regular season,
and then what do you do in the playoffs against
the competition you faced. This was a Pacers offense that
was lighting everybody up, Colin and they got strangled every
(09:12):
single time it mattered.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Nikola Jokic is literally the.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Best offensive player I've ever watched, and he and they
had him under control in every pivotal moment of that series.
That is the type of defense that we watched. You know,
this Thunder offense was frustrating. Sometimes we're gonna talk about
Shaye in a few minutes, Like Shay was great every
time he needed to be great, but there were some
downsides here. He had a game in this series where
had zero assists. They had games where they'd moved the
(09:37):
ball poorly, where they were out of rhythm, out of flow.
They're young players, young players against elite playoff defense. That
that's going to take some time to figure out. And
there's no doubt that if the Thunder are going to
have sustained success in this league, they're gonna have to
figure out some things offensively to be better year after
year after year. But their defense right now is elite
(09:58):
hold the trophy defense, and that's what came through for them. Again.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
I was really interested to see if chet Holmgren could
deliver finally, and I thought in the second half it
was like, Okay, chet Holmgren played with more confidence. That
was my only question. I thought, Man, if this is
a three point game and there's four minutes left, okay,
see Home Favorite could get really tight. And they left
no doubt. But I thought Homegroun and Jay Dubb both
(10:21):
in the second half, played well in that run. So
and that was one of my concerns is that I've
never seen a young team like this young win a championship.
And you know, I was thinking about this as you
were talking about SJ. SGA. Usually, let's say, for instance,
Shaq wasn't hitting his free throws, he still had all
(10:42):
time power. If Kobe and MJ weren't hitting their jumper,
they could go vertical Magic Johnson struggling from the field.
He just had a size advantage. He'd back you down.
Sga is not a vertical player. So if he's off
and he's off center, he doesn't have power. He doesn't
(11:04):
have speed. He doesn't have He's not he's not you know,
he's strong for his size. He's not a vertical player.
He is a mid range maven. Like he is all
time stuff. And so you know I've said before is
he's an all time scorer. But he doesn't feel like
he's in the Curry class where you're like, wow, I've
(11:25):
never seen a human like Caitlin. Clark's got some of that.
You're like, I've never seen that, right, Sga, I've seen it,
Alex English, Keiky Vandaway. He's just better at it. And
so I do think you know when you when you
play better teams and you can get it off his game.
He has a very centralized game. He's tremendous at it.
But I think we both admit he needs a friendly whistle,
(11:48):
and because he's so gifted, he almost always gets it.
It's not like the hardened whistle, which is like feels illegal.
That's not it. It's like that feels unstoppable. Is different
then it feels illegal. But you know he is. I
love him. I love his maturity. He's just a smart,
hard working kid. He's impossible not to root for. I
(12:10):
know everybody doesn't like you know, all the flopping. But
I have a hard time not rooting for guys who
are more mature than their age, with completely refined games
where I can see the work ethic, I can see
the years you've toiled in a gym. That to me
as a grinder, like, I love that kind of basketball,
(12:33):
and I think that's what he embodies.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah, I think it's fascinating because at his age, you know,
being twenty six, he's kind of in this weird role
that's reminiscent of some of the roles that you've seen
guys like Tom Brady and Lebron be in where they're
the elder statesman.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
In the locker room.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
He's the elder statesman in the locker room at twenty
six years old. It's such a bizarre dynamic. But to like,
for if he was an immature player at twenty six,
this whole thing could fall apart because of the youth
in that locker room, and he just brings that veteran presence.
This is the perfect time for us to get into
the Microsoft bit, and I'm gonna kick it back to you.
(13:10):
So welcome to course correction brought to you guys by Microsoft.
Just like Star players and teams navigating performance hurdles, and
business decision makers today are under immense pressure to get
things right. They must rise to the occasion, turning challenges
and opportunities. Microsoft empowers these visionaries with AI solutions, simplified
cloud and data management, and trustworthy responsible AI. And when
(13:31):
you're in the NBA, you have your own hurdles to face.
In this segment, we will highlight the player every week
that has risen to the occasion when his team has
needed him. Whatever challenge you're facing, Microsoft empowers you with
the expertise to say, bring it up. Our player of
the Week this week is the twenty twenty five NBA
Finals MVP. It is now official. Shay Giljess Alexander Colin.
(13:55):
I was thinking about a cool way to frame this segment,
and all I could think about, like you mentioned with
the Washington Bullets roster, You know, everything for me, as
I'm talking about all time greats is kind of played
through this lens of when I started really following the
league closely, which for me was in the like around
two thousand and five, two thousand and six. You've been
watching a lot of NBA basketball for a really long time,
(14:18):
You've seen a lot of stars come through the league
as young players leave the league as vets. What has
been like your first impression of Shay Gill just Alexander
as a playoff performer in the NBA.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
That if I go back to Kareem and the skyhook,
which was unstoppable, unblockable, and he mastered a shot. I'd
never seen a player master a shot when I first
watched Kareem, I can remember as a kid in my
backyard doing it like nobody else shot the hook, Michael
Jordan's mid range game. If you look at a lot
(14:52):
of the great players beyond just scores, they are the
master of their domain. Like I do what I do,
and they're all different looking. There was no other There
was no other Kareem, you know. David Thompson was a
little Michael, but Michael's mid range game he had three
or four stock moves, you know, Tim Duncan. The great
(15:15):
fundamental is that a lot of the all time great players,
and I've said this about Mahomes can be boring. They
have mastered what they do frustratingly so. And I look
at a player who knows exactly what he is, but
more importantly, he knows what he's not and he leans
(15:38):
into all of his skills, and I think when you
watch them play, they can be uneven offensively. The greatest
thing I can say about SGA. He's their clear dominant
number one score. So when you play them, I don't
have to pick Tony Parker Duncan Manu. It's like stop
(15:58):
him and people can't. And that to me is a
fastball Like that you know you can beat them. And
Jay Dubb can have thirty two, or Check could have
twenty four, or Lou Dort hits five threes, but the
numbers are if he gets to the free throw line,
they win. Everybody in the league knows it and they
(16:19):
can't stop him. Like that is precision, That is mastering
a craft, and I just I just have great respect
for that.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, the Duncan comp is super fascinating to me because
Shay doesn't have some super demonstrative personality on the court.
He lacks a vertical element to his game. There's nothing
that like like people who play a lot of basketball,
Like I've stolen little bits of footwork and moves from
him that I think are useful moves for young players
to work on. He's brought his own little kind of
(16:51):
unique flare to the two guard position, just like Harden did,
just like Wade did, just like Kobe did, just like
MJ did. He's got his own like kind of unique
take on it. But similar to Duncan, even if there
wasn't that you know, overwhelming optical appeal, it's just surgically effective.
And no matter what happened in this playoff run, the
most reliable play type out there was give the ball
(17:13):
to Shay at the nail and he's probably going to
either draw foul or get to a mid range jump
shot that he can hit about fifty five percent of
the time. And you know, you know, Colin, it has
not been a perfect NBA Finals for him. He had
some rough games. But here's the thing. Just about every
star struggles in their first NBA finals. Lebron struggled in
his first two NBA finals. It is an impossible stage
(17:34):
to be to be I shouldn't say it'smpossible, it's a
very difficult stage to perform well in. And to his credit,
every single moment in this series where things could have
gone south. So like Game two, you're down one zero,
you lose that game. Series is probably over. Game four,
you're down to one, you lose.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
That game.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Series is probably over. Game five two to two, you lose,
that game. Series is probably over. And Game seven series tied.
If you lose that game, obviously the series is over.
In every one of those games, I thought he was awesome.
This is actually hilarious stat Colin. In the four games
where I thought he played poorly, which was Game one,
Game three, Game four, in game six, in those games
(18:12):
he combined for just nine assists. Okay, just nine in
those four games. In the other three games, in game two,
in game five, and in game seven, he had thirty
thirty assists. He averaged ten in those three games. And
if you watch those games from the start, just surgical
and precise with the way he was navigating the late
(18:34):
double teams, the help at the rim, making the kickouts
to three point shooters, the role man, whether it's hartensteiner Chet,
I thought, Shay, to his credit, every time the team
needed him to be great in the series, he was great.
And I think that is the stereotypical Finals MVP performance.
I thought he thoroughly deserved it, and most players don't
even do this well in their first time around.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Yeah, and you know, I think I don't think they're
a great team. I think they could be with age,
Like next year they'll play and watch next year, Okase
won't be as dominant in the regular season. They won't
be that there's no need to be. You're gonna rest players.
So next year they'll win by an average of six
(19:17):
point eight, not twelve point nine. Right, They'll try to
build up. You know, they're gonna try to build up
their younger players, make their draft picks. They want to
see guys that can play. So it'll be interesting. But
next year they'll play like a champion, and so what
you'll see they'll be a little less uneven to the
aforementioned stats where you saw him bounce a little bit,
(19:38):
you'll probably get a little bit less than that. But
it's also something that Indiana was better defensively than people
gave him credit for. They could put a lot a
lot of length on the floor. And I think we
are going through We've seen it now with multiple teams,
and I was fooled with Denver. I say it right now.
The last seven champions have been very good team. Will
(20:02):
this be a great team. I'm fascinated to watch the
Houston Rockets now right like Shangoon, I'm on Thompson, Kevin Durant.
It's I want to give Indiana credit because the Haliburton
injury didn't matter. But in the end, I still like
Oklahoma City. I think when I look at Oklahoma City's
(20:26):
rough edges, it's mostly Homebrewn just needs another year to grow.
Like one of the roughest edges is God Homebrewn did
nothing tonight, Jay Williams, J Dubb. He can stale Williams.
He can still be uneven, he can be masterful. But
I think most of the things about them are a
(20:47):
lot of them are age specific, as young players in
big games, especially on the road, aren't as good. And
I just so I look at them and I think, oh,
they have a chance to be really good next year,
plays a more confidite team, and I think by the
way their coaching staff will grow, everybody will just get better.
But most of my criticisms of Okay see are you
(21:09):
know you just didn't know game to game what you
got with chet Holdron on the offensive end. When he
played well in the second half, It's like, Wow, that's
a really hard team to beat.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Yeah, this is a super interesting concept. I want to
get a little deeper into this. I do need. We're
going to wrap up Microsoft real quick. That's it for
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(21:41):
com Slash challengers to learn more. So, Colin, to your point,
I saw this stat before the game, Oklahoma City's net rating,
And remember net rating is just how much you outscore
your opponent. Just waited for pace per one hundred possessions.
Oklahoma City's net rating at home coming into tonight was
twenty one. They outscored teams by twenty one points per
(22:02):
one hundred possessions on the road negative six. And so
to your point, I actually agree with you. I thought
Oklahoma City kind of underachieved in this playoff run. They
should have put Denver away sooner, They should have put
Indiana away sooner. They were not, to me a great
offensive team for the majority of this playoff run, downright
(22:25):
ugly at various points. But as we look back through
NBA history, this is what I look at the Warriors.
As a corollary here, it's not just stars that tend
to struggle when they get to the finals the first
time teams do. The Celtics in twenty twenty two, they
really struggled. When they showed up in twenty twenty four,
they looked like a bunch of grown ups. They handled
it way better Golden State. Steph played so poorly in
(22:47):
twenty fifteen. I think he still deserved Finals MVP, but
he played so poorly in twenty fifteen, he didn't get
a single vote for Finals MVP. They were looking at
his teammate as somebody to give the vote to. They,
you know, at various points in that playoff run looked
a little shaky. They trailed to one to Memphis, they
trailed to one to Cleveland. It is very typical for
a team that dominates in the regular season but has
(23:08):
their first truly pressure filled, serious playoff run to be
a little bumpy. And so the point is is like, yeah,
this year they were a mediocre playoff offense that had
an elite playoff defense, which was enough to get them
over the top. But this team has by far the
most room for internal improvement year over year. I'd argue
(23:28):
in the entire NBA, like Jada, you talked about the oscillations.
The oscillations are classic young player stuff. I can't tell
you how many times anybody who spends any time coaching
young basketball players, you'll see them do something that works.
You'll be a nice job, and then they'll go on
the next possession and they'll do something completely different and
you're like, just do the same thing, do the same
thing that you just did, and it works, and then
(23:51):
when they make mistakes, they can repeat them. They struggled
to cut out mistakes and the struggle to repeat their
successes young players over time. You don't think Shay remembers
how he played in those three bad in those four
bad games. He knows, he knows, he learned lessons in
that in that process, and Shay will be better. Shay
will just be more consistent. I believe Ja dub can
(24:12):
get substantially better. Chet was a nightmare offensively in this
postseason run.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Nightmare.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
And this is a guy who spends summers working out
with Kevin Durant, who has, like all he has all
NBA offensive potential, and so maybe they're not that team yet,
but they absolutely can get there. And all you have
to do in this era where nobody's winning multiple championships
is win multiple championships and pretty quickly you will like
(24:38):
establish yourself as one of the all time great teams.
I'm with you, they were. This was a rocky road,
but they got it done. If you were gonna beat
the Thunder, this was the year. This was the year
where they're young, they're thin. Chet has never been in
these big moments before, Like this was the year to
beat them and nobody could get it done. And it's
only gonna go up from here.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Yeah, but I think Houston now has to be considered
very interesting. I contend Dallas when everybody's healthy. Now, I
don't know exactly where Kyrie is going to be. I
love their size and length. I also think, you know,
the NBA, especially out West, has some really good gms.
(25:20):
There's a lot of levers to pull here. And even
though and I've told you, I think draft picks are
going to matter more. Like everybody's banging on the suns today,
what if that number ten pick ends up being a really,
really good player and they have all these second round
picks and they can figure out a way to move
one of the other players and get another first round pick.
(25:41):
And I think Oklahoma City is going to be very
good for a very long time. But I still think
and we've seen it this year, these long playoff runs.
You see it with pitching staffs, and you see it
with teams. You keep going to seven games against Western
(26:03):
teams and in the finals, I don't like it. I
think you're going to have more injuries. I don't remember
a two year stretch where we had more key injuries
to star players. So you know, it's one of those things.
They've got the they've got a lot of depth, but
they do have one dependable score So keeping SGA healthy
(26:23):
and trying to develop second, third, and fourth scorers is
a real thing because they're inconsistent there. But it is
you know, as I look at this playoff series, one
of my takeaways is, and I've been on this four years,
you do not need seven games in the first round,
like and you say, well, it could be a sweep.
You do not need four game sweeps. You could do it.
(26:46):
You could do it in five games or three games.
So I think OKAC is not good enough to be brittle,
injury riddled. I think healthy. You know, we always say
it in the NFL, it's attrition these playoffs. Cleveland fell
apart the year before New York fell apart, and that
(27:07):
I think that's a lot of it. I think the
West is gonna be razor thin keep you know, we
all know San Antonio is gonna take a jump. So
I think a lot of it is if we're gonna
keep doing seven game series. Well, a lot of it
is who's healthy because a lot of guys went to
the floor this year.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Yeah, and Okay, so he's super young, and they just
held up. They kind of physically wore everybody down over
the course of this Playffron because they just have this
deep rotation of young players.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
I agree. I agree with you.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
For the record, I want to be clear, like I
do not think this Oklahoma City team is the KD
STEPH Warriors, Like that team felt borderline unbeatable when they
were healthy. Like I don't think this Oklahoma City team
is unbeatable. I just think we haven't seen their ceiling yet.
I think there's a level they can get to, especially
in the offensive end of the floor, that we haven't
seen yet, and I'm curious to see where that ends
(27:55):
up is does that end up being a team that's
just like all the other champions recently they can't repeat,
or does it end up being a team that ends
up making a mark on this air. But the injuries
thing is fascinating. So we have a shout out to Josh.
It gave us the stat before the show, the Tyres
Haliburton achilles tear. If that confirms to be what it is,
which is what it looked like. I mean ABC made
(28:17):
us watch it thirty times. I have no idea what
that was all about, but that would be the eighth
achilles tear in the NBA this year. The previous season
high was five. What do you make of this, like
upticking these weird severe injuries in the NBA.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Well, okay, the pace is faster, the players are better,
you know, it's it's a more physical postseason. It's just
more taxing on the bodies and these athletes now come
into the season in shape. You're just asking a lot.
I means, you know, like we can criticize Jamal Murray
(28:52):
of Denver sort of playing himself into shape and Luca,
but I think I think there are very few Lebron's
out there where the body just holds up. And I think,
I think guys, I think the level of play, the
level of pace, the level of physicality. These guys are
more like tightly tuned violins and it just doesn't take much.
(29:13):
And so I don't I just do. Listen, college basketball
doesn't have near the quality of talent of the NBA,
But why are their ratings often beating NBA playoff games?
Because of the urgency And we all know baseball you
have to have a longer series because such a big
component of baseball as starting pitching, so you know you're
setting up your pitching. That's part of the chess match
(29:35):
of baseball. But I don't think in basketball I need
a seven game series. Michael Jordan's big years it was
a five gamer until you get to later rounds. And
I just think, I think Adam Silver and I'll give
Rob Manfred and Roger Goodell credit. I think our commissioners
see this. They're very open minded. Manford's made multiple big swings,
(29:57):
you know, which goes against baseball's history. Basketball has been,
you know, a much more progressive, willing to experiment league. Sometimes,
you know, the new ball David Sturn didn't even give
the players a heads up. But the lee Adam Silver
has made you know, the nd season tournament, I think
you have to really examine. And when I had him on,
we talked about this is that embrace college basketball. You
(30:20):
know how you know what Indie, Oklahoma City is to me.
We're all the G League guys. It's a lot of
guys who played a lot of years of college embrace
college basketball as an almost educational basketball tool, not the
school part. Just be what Tom is over two or
three years, like it matters. And also, you have to
really examine the value of these players. If you're signing
(30:42):
a seventy six billion dollar contract for eleven years, you
want your stars playing as long as they can. Halliburton's
injury made me sick to my stomach. The game didn't
feel the same after that injury. I was so fired
up all day. I got home early, I watched two
hours of the pregame show a sick to my stomach.
I'm like wow, and and again I am. I just
(31:04):
think you can the money's not the problem. We got
seventy six billion coming like, money's not the issue. The
owners are all billionaires, let's protect the players. There's no
reason for seven days deniable.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
And it keep the thing is calling too, It keeps
happening on the same play, the same like what they
call it the negative step, where you like step backwards
to try to launch yourself forwards. Essentially the body is
fatiguing to the point that when they're trying to explode
forward at these points, the body's failing, and it's happening
at an increasingly high rate. And it I think it
(31:37):
has a lot to do with just the way the
game has changed, in the sense that the point at
which players are engaging defenders, the point at which players
are being asked to contend with physicalities extended substantially further
away from the basket. You're facing ball pressure and being
guarded thirty thirty five feet from the basket.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Some of these times.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
I bet if you tracked an individual player's movement and
just how often he runs around the floor, just the
straight line distance that he runs, it's probably double what
it was in the nineties in a single game, just
because of the pace, the amount of ball in player
movement that occurs on every single possession.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
It's just a lot.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
And so to your point, like I understand the TV aspect,
and it's like, okay, we go, we get money from
these games. We can't cut games because it costs us money.
If anything, we're trying to add games. Here's the Ncason Tournament,
here's the play in tournament. You know they added that
seventh game to the first round after it used to
be five. Like they are adding inventory that the players
can't handle. And if you really dig into it and
(32:39):
you actually start to look at the way it affects
the product, I'm so glad you mentioned that, Colin. This
is the most excited I've vent for games so long.
And what a buzzkill to watch the best player on
the other team come out hit three straight three, start
talking a bunch of shit to the crowd. Next thing
you know, he's on in a heap on the ground.
It's a huge bummer. And like, these guys can't be
asked to play back to these guys can't be asked
(33:02):
to play an additional two.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
It is June twenty.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Second, Colin, you know how this playoff runt has been
going on forever, Like it is a long stretch. They
have to find a way to make this actually achievable
for these bodies, they are not holding up. In my
theory is that if you tweak it in a way
to where guys can hold up, it'll improve the ratings
just by virtue of everyone being present and bringing the
(33:25):
urgency due to the lower inventory.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Oh, it's just like baseball ratings when when you shorten
the game create urgency. Everybody's I mean, I've done this
ad nauseam. Everybody's on their phones. People are just I'm
watching the game tonight and I'm I'm literally in the
first quarter. You know, I'm sitting there watching the game
and I'm writing some notes, but I'm also reading an
article on the finals as I'm watching the finals. We're
(33:52):
all distracted, So you know, I just I think the
reality is you just anytime you can make make a
game feel like an event, everybody wins. The players win,
I win, you win, the networks win. So it'll be
interesting now because the NBA is going to be on
so many networks and it's going to dilute some of
(34:13):
the coverage. But you're going to have to make it special.
And and by the way, this is what Baseball did.
Fox went to Baseball and said, you guys have to
create the home run Derby's your highest rated non World
Series moment. Create more things like that. So they did
the Cornfield game. They put the Mets in the Phillies,
you know, overseas, and I watched all of them. So
(34:34):
I do think there's a certain apathy in the regular season.
I mean, even the league officiates different in the postseason.
They understand the urgency. So I think they'll get it right.
I think Adam will eventually get it right. He's not
a stubborn guy. I don't think any of our commissioners are.
And I think going from seven games to five games,
you may not think it's a big deal, but I
(34:56):
over the course, it could be four less, four or
fewer playoff games. You know. I feel like Halliburton's body
just gave out tonight. It just it was exhausted. He
just pushed it and pushed it and pushed it.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
I think that's exactly what happened. Again, it's becoming undeniable.
Like there was a point where it was like, oh,
injuries are on the rise, but hey, it's only been
like two or three years. It might be just anecdotal
or too small of a sample size. We're in an
extended stretch here where like dudes are breaking down every
year in the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
Remember last year.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
It was like, oh, the calves are going on Donovan
Mitchell's foot and how were you know? And then oh,
like here come the Pacers and the tyres. Haliburton gets it.
It's like it's it's this like it's basically turning into
a war of attrition more than it's turning into a
battle of basketball. And that's what they have to figure
out because otherwise what you're going to see is the deepest,
youngest team win every year. I mean, and that's more
or less what we saw in the finals, you know,
(35:44):
you know, on so many different levels. But anyway, Colin,
we did get a new piece of news this morning.
Kevin Durant is now Houston Rocket and in return, the
Phoenix Suns are getting Jalen Green, a young player with
tons of potential but maddening downsides at this point, Dylan Brooks,
who I actually think is a very good role player
(36:06):
in the NBA, the tenth pick in this upcoming draft,
and five second round picks. What was like your first
impression when you heard the news today, Well.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
My first impression the Suns were three and seventeen. When
Katie didn't play this year, they stunk. It wasn't him.
He still get a bucket. If he's a leader in Houston,
it doesn't work. If you need a bucket in Houston,
it works. And I think today you have to look
at the Rockets. My take is he's gonna give you
about sixty five games in the regular season. If we
(36:38):
get two healthy years, then everybody's going to watch Houston
via for the NBA Championship and feel like they dominated
the trade. It is, however, a very good draft, so
Phoenix gets the number two ten pick. Well, many people
are theorizing there are twelve players in this draft, the
top twelve players who are All Star potential. So if
they stay at ten or move up to six or eight,
(37:00):
they're getting a potentially really good player, probably with more
than one year in college. And again, I don't think
anybody will ever unlock Jalen Green, like I think he's
the classic, doesn't have a defined game, never probably will,
but we can't deny that he can drop thirty in
any given moment, that he's wildly talented. I don't like
(37:23):
his game, but I'm not going to deny that he's
you know, long, twitchy, fast, very good transition player. He's
just and there are a lot of these guys in
the NBA. You know, they come in and they're talented,
and maybe either they don't work on their game, or
they don't get the right coaching, or they just they
probably have so much talent from sixth grade on that
(37:46):
they never really there's no catalyst for them to like
really burrow down on a specialized you know, not everybody
has just driven as MJ. Right, Like I'm reading the
Caitlin Clark book. I mean, that girl's be he is MJ.
She's obsessed, and it's just like, not everybody's like that.
Some people are just talented. And so between Aman Thompson
(38:08):
and shn Goon is beautiful touch, Kevin Durant and a
series of four or five very good young players. And
I think Adokah is a very good coach. That's a
real team. But I think it's easy to look at
Phoenix and just go, well, they got Green's productive. Dylan
Brooks is a very good small forward defender, can give
(38:30):
you seventeen a night. You got the number ten pick,
you got a bunch of second round picks which you
can turn those into things. Phoenix wanted her a little
bit of a reboot. They got it. But people on
the internet are like, oh, Houston dominated. If Katie got
hurt in Game thirty six, it wouldn't feel like Houston dominated. Right.
They're not bringing him there to be a foundational piece.
(38:51):
They're bringing him in to get a bucket like he
will not be the leader is shen Gun will still
be the I think the centerpiece of the team. Aman
Thompson will be your best athlete and your defensive stopper.
He's gonna be a bucket guy. So that's why I
think it works. He's still one of the top twenty three,
(39:12):
twenty six best players in the league. I would argue,
I mean, I was on the plane when I was
flying in today, I started writing down numbers and I
got to like twenty one. I'm like, he's in that space.
And again, Phoenix was terrible when he didn't play. So
that's my long winded answer on I think Houston will
look like they won the trade, but Phoenix got.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Asked in Phoenix is a sign that like yeah, KD,
Steph Lebron, these guys they're not floor razors anymore.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
At their age.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
They're not going to turn a bad roster into a
fifty win team the way that twenty seven year old
Nikola Jokic could like that. That goes without saying I don't.
I do think though, that kd has been dramatically underrated
because he's been on such a poor roster. I put
this together for you, callin. This is three stats to
show that Kevin Durant is still one of the very
best players in the NBA. He was the best jump
(40:04):
shooter in the world this year. Among fifty eight players
in the NBA to take at least five hundred jump shots,
Kadi was the only player in the league to make
over half of them, and he in second place with
Shay who made forty five percent. And if you waited
it for threes, his one point two to two points
per shot was still number one in.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
The NBA number two.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
He was the only player in the NBA last year
to make at least two hundred pull up jump shots,
meaning off the dribble, while making more than half of
them in three He was far and away the best
isolation player in the world last year. Out of the
ten players around at least two hundred and fifty ISOs.
His one point one to six points per possession including
passes ranked number one in the league, a full six
points per one hundred possessions, ahead of Shay who is
(40:42):
in second place. I think he is when it comes
to refined offensive skill, he is still one of the
very best players in the league. I would put him
in that six to fifteen range, depending on and we
haven't seen him play enough high leverage basketball lately to
see where he really lands in there, but I think
he's still in that range. And if you asked me
what the Rockets issue was, this is a deep team
(41:04):
with a load of big, physical athletes. If you ask
me what their one week at weakness was, it's refined
offensive skill. And that's what KD comes into address. We
were just talking about this with Desmond Baine in the
Orlando Magic the other day. When you take a bunch
of big athletes that kind of struggle with spacing and
you bring in a guy who like, just run him
off a screen and he's automatically gonna pull two defenders
(41:25):
out thirty feet from the basket and unlocks a world
of possibilities on the short role. A men Thompson will
be an amazing short role player. You know that thing
that Draymond Green did for Steph where Steph would come
off of Draymond to take two players and then Draymond
would go right down the middle of the floor and
make the play that broke the defense down. That is
a thing that a Men Thompson has been unable to
(41:45):
do in Houston because they just don't generate many of
those opportunities because none of their shooters are good enough. Hey,
d will unlock that part of a Men Thompson's game.
It is not a perfect roster. I was writing down
all the names on the roster today. They're a little
light on ball handling, that sort of thing they can get.
You know what's so funny, Colin, I remember when the
Sun signed Highest Jones last summer. I was like, why
(42:07):
you already have this redundancy of all these dudes who
can dribble and you're just not athletic enough and you're
not good enough on defense. Like you need athletes and
dudes that can like like beat up people in these
physical environments. You know who could really use Highest Jones Houston? Like,
I think they should call I think Kevin Durant should
call up highest tomorrow and be like, hey, dude, come
with me.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
I think I think Phoenix. I wish Phoenix would have
gotten actually a size. I think Phoenix needs size, and
I think Houston needs a ball handler. And our takeaway
when we watched Golden State beat Houston, we were like, God,
they're so bad in a half court offense. If you
stop shn good, it's over right, like it's just and
so you and I talked about this. He was a
perfect fit there. I thought he worked in New York
(42:50):
because the Jalen Brunson's you know, has the ball a
lot in his hands. I thought he would work with
that offense, whereas Cat can kind of. I always felt
like Cat and Brunston were playing you know, your turn,
my turn, your turn, my turn. Kd's kind of like
I'll sit in the I did it with Russ Westbrook.
I'll sit in the corner. Get it to me eventually.
So I think he fits really, really well, and I
(43:12):
think they have the coach. I think again, it's so
hard to judge Houston because so much of their roster
is young. I like feel like everybody's in the fourth inning,
Like I mean, Amen, Thompson could take a big leap.
I mean, shne Goon's the only one where I look
at him and I think, oh that again. I used
this word a lot. But that's a defined and refined
(43:32):
offensive game. He's got European touch, like he has a game.
A lot of their players I feel like they're just
in early innings. I don't know what they are. So
Aman Thompson's obviously defensively defined. He's so strong and athletic
and aggressive. But KD gives them refinement. This is a
second offensive player. I know exactly what I'm getting. And
(43:55):
that's that goes back to a little Oklahoma city that
one of the reasons Indiana kind gave OKC problems. Sciakam
has an offensive half court game, Haliburton does, TJ McConnell does. Like,
that's three guys, even Obi Toppen. When he hits threes,
You're like, he's athletic and hit threes. They had guys
(44:15):
that they Rick Carlile knew, Okay, this is what this
player does with Houston. Houston's like a younger OKAC. I'm
just not sure what everybody is like. I just need
more guys that I go into a game and go yeah,
I'm going to get twenty fourth tonight from KD and
I can drop two or three plays for so Houston
to me is early innings they could end up being.
They could end up looking at If you told me
(44:36):
next year a team explodes in the West and ends
up winning by seven point eight points, I would guess
Houston because they have so many players that are just
going to springboard to another level here in the.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Next BASKETBALLSSI upside, I think they could very easily be
the second best team in the West and the biggest
threat to the Thunder next year. I think that's absolutely
on the table. They match up well with OKC two
because they have all the big physical size. The ball
handling will be the week as we saw with Indiana,
even Oklahoma City struggled because of their lack of depth
and ball handling against Indiana's ball pressure. But the youth,
(45:07):
the thing that you're talking about in terms of the
wide range of outcomes is super interesting because as I
was breaking down their depth chart today, I'm looking at
it and I'm like, Okay, Fred van Vliet, legit point guard.
You know, Shane gun center, Heyd's you're four, Amen, Thompson.
I think defensively functions as either a two or three,
so that could be either. But then it's like Jabari
(45:28):
Smith Junior is kind of a four. He plays basically
the same position as Katie. I don't think he moves
his feet well enough to be a three. Cam Whittmore
could be one of those guys. Reed, Shephard could be
one of those guys, but like, who knows. And here's
the other thing too, callin Houston's gave up one first
round draft pick in this deal. They still have a
boat load of first round draft picks at their disposal,
(45:48):
so they're high.
Speaker 3 (45:50):
They're like a high likelihood for.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
Like a we bring this team into camp, we watch
them for twenty games, and we go, oh, here are
the two things we're missing. Let's go get what we
need to get. Like they are, they're extremely well equipped
heading into this next season.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
That's where Houston won the trade. They didn't have to
give up another first round pick. That that's where they
won the trade. It's not just KD because my guess
is because of their depth, they won't play Kad more
than like sixty to sixty five games. They want him
for the postseason. There's no reason to play him seventy
five eighty games, because they also know if you're in
(46:25):
the West, Jason, you know you're going to be in
long series. So there's no you know you're going to
be in six game series. In the West. It's not
like the East where you kind of feel like if
Aliberton comes back next year, they're just certain you're gonna
win a lot of series really quickly. You're gonna have
long series in the West, no reason to have you know,
I want KD going into the playoffs, you know, off
(46:47):
about a two games and nine days stretch, healthy and
ready to go. And I think you have to think
about that as a GM with an older player in
the West, if you have a Steph for a KD the.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
Series, that's the thing. Like if they get a Ties Jones,
if they get you know, one other guy of that ILK,
then they will be able to rest Katie not just
for the regular season, but even in the postseason. Like
we saw Houston give themselves a really good chance to
win games even without high level offensive skill because they
just go here's Tarry Eason and and Amn Thompson and
we're picking up full court and you're turning the ball over.
(47:19):
Now and it's a mess. Like they are able, like
they are able to prevent the redundancy that Phoenix had,
where you have a bunch of guys who do the
same thing on Houston. What KD does is so specialized
for them that they kind of have an identity separate,
separate from him, so they will be able to win
games without him. They will be able to carry the
(47:40):
load so that he can come in and lift them
over the top. I think it's a I think it's
a fantastic on paper basketball fit. It'll be ugly sometimes,
Katie's gonna have some nights where maybe the statistical performance
isn't there because it's ugly. They can't space the floor
as well for him, but they will in turn do
the same thing to the other team. So what to
buy Kevin that more for air? Before we get out
(48:01):
of here tonight, con I didn't want to run this
by you because I've seen a lot of victory lapping criticism.
You know. Let's just say the Phoenix Suns have been
the butt of the joke today because they took McHale
Bridges and Cam Johnson and Chris Paul and they turned
them into basically Bradley Beal and Dylan Brooks and Jalen
(48:27):
Green in one first round pick. I get that it
looks bad. Here is where this is where my brain
went this morning. They made it to the finals a
year where because of COVID everyone was hurt, and we
had a Trey Young Hawks team in the conference finals,
a Paul George Clippers team with an injured Kawhi in
(48:49):
the conference finals, and that Sons team. And by the way,
they ran into Giannis, and Giannis beat them four straight
times for the title. So they weren't good enough. Then
the next year they kind of a great regular season
and Luca like embarrasses them, like embarrasses them for the
world to see. In the second round, they weren't good enough,
(49:10):
so they made an aggressive trade. They went and got
Kevin Durant. Every one of us would have done the
same thing at that point in time. It was Kevin
Durant and we had just seen him be so amazing
for Brooklyn in those couple of previous playoff runs. Even
the Chris Paul thing that I would argue they should
have used Chris Paul's salary as a vehicle with which
to bring in more size and athleticism. But they like,
(49:32):
you're like Chris Paul for Bradley Beal, Like, I mean,
come on, right, you could talk yourself into it.
Speaker 3 (49:38):
Again.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
It wasn't perfect. There were mistakes. There are certain things
I would have done differently. But now we're on the
other side of this and it's like self awareness. We're
not good enough. We just missed the playoffs in the
Western Conference, like Katie misses a few games and we
completely fall apart. Like I understand it looks bad when
you zoom out, but to me, what happened to Phoenix
is just what happens when you get aggressive and it
doesn't work, and the truth of the matter is that
(50:00):
there's risk.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
Well yeah, they had the well yeah, the Bradley Beal deal,
and I can't criticize it because for years, I mean
I must have been on the air for five years
saying I really like Bradley Beal. He's playing with John Wall.
You're never going to flourish with John Wall. You got
to get into a more mature group of veteran players.
(50:23):
And then it's just like, over the course of a
year or two, he got really old, really fast, and
really banged up, and he just he just withered down.
So I was a Bradley Beal fan for years. I
didn't understand why he was so loyal to Washington, which
was poorly runed and poorly owned. So I can't I
can't criticism, and I always tend to be a big
(50:44):
fan of being aggressive. I like what Orlando just did
to get banged, So yeah, I can't bang it. I'm again,
if they hit on the number ten pick, They've got
enough second round picks, they got enough pieces to I
think you just have to take more big swings. I
think with Bradley Beal, I wonder if you just don't
buy out the contract, like I mean, that's how bad
of a deal it was. So you know, I think
(51:07):
if they were in the East, you'd have a better
vibe or more optimism. I just think I look at
San Antonio and I look, I still think Denver is
going to be really good. I think they just you know,
I just look at the West, the better gms, better rosters,
deeper teams. I mean, god, we've almost forgotten about what
they're building in San Antonio. Holy crap, do they have
(51:28):
a lot of talent. They're in the second inning. So
I just think a Phoenix relative to the conference. You know,
they just feel like I have not, and they probably are.
But I I mean, I know Matt Iseshbia and Justin Ishbia.
I know Justin actually I met him when I moved
to Chicago. He's part of the White Sox. I think
(51:48):
ownership group now and Matt got really aggressive, and I
think one of the things I've learned over the course
of my life, Jason, it's I made a lot of mistakes,
but it's hard to master two things. Like Michael Jordan
tried baseball, all right, Randy Moss tried basketball. It's really hard.
(52:12):
And I think sometimes when aggressive owners come in and
they think, hey, you know because the sons like don't
have the biggest scouting department, and the owner comes in
and thinks, I want stars, what you're really saying is
I'm moving into a completely different world and I'm smarter
than Sam Presty, right, Like even Sam Presty the James
(52:35):
Harden deal early, he didn't get enough like it's it's
I mean, I look at GMS and football and basketball
who I like and they make big mistakes. Shabbaz Napier,
the draft pick for pat Riley in the heat like,
great people make mistakes. Nobody on the internet, you know,
the trolls don't want to ever admit it, but I
think they came in and the owner was a little
(52:56):
hot and a little aggressive, and this is a hard
sport to master, even the best people. Just you know,
you're you're drafting nineteen and twenty year olds, and I think,
you know, I'm not going to bang on the Suns
because when they made the moves, I was like, I
kind of like it, and then a year later, I'm like, man,
(53:18):
was I wrong? So I can't be I can't stand
on any pious mountain today because I like their moves.
I thought, Bradley be Bradley Beal's been a disaster. There's
nothing else you can say. It's just been a.
Speaker 2 (53:28):
Day that happens sometimes, Like I mean, like the most
recent example I can think of is the Raptors. Like
I remember when the Raptors traded for Kawhi. Everyone was like,
why would you do that? He's going to go to
Los Angeles. He's telling everybody he's going to Los Angeles.
His family's out there, he wants to be out there.
That's where he's going. This is a rental and it
was by the way, if you like remove the championship
from the equation, it's like he went there and then
(53:50):
he left and he went to La and the Raptors
take like the Raptors fell apart after that, Like that's
what happened, but they won the title. But even if
you zoom in on the series, it's like three to
three in Philly and Kawhi hits like a leaning jump
shot while falling out of bounds that hits every part
of the rim and then falls in Like that.
Speaker 3 (54:08):
Was the gap.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
That was the gap between the Gamble being a success
and being a failure. And so ultimately, I feel like
we're just playing the results when we say that, and like,
you know, I look at it, it's like you draft,
you've traded for KD. There was one team who gave
the twenty twenty three Nuggets trouble, one team, the Phoenix Suns.
That the Phoenix Suns were the team that pushed them
(54:29):
to two to two in the series, and it looked
like everything was hanging in the balance, and so like,
for whatever it's worth, it wasn't enough. But yeah, my
take was less like, uh, look.
Speaker 3 (54:38):
At the Suns.
Speaker 2 (54:38):
They butchered everything, and like they acknowledged to themselves that
they weren't good enough to win the title. They made
an aggressive move for one of the twelve greatest players
of all time when he was still playing really well,
and it didn't work out, you know, And that's just
how it goes sometimes. But Colin, it was great to
see you today. Thanks so much for coming on the show.
This has been a really fun season. Shout out to
the NBA for giving us our first good NBA final
(55:00):
in a very long time.
Speaker 1 (55:02):
And our best domestic draft coming up in forever. This
is a great domestic draft. So's that's we've talked about this.
I think with NIL, I think you're going to have
more players staying in college, the drafts are going to
get more domestic. We're also poaching the best European players
with the NIL money. I think draft picks over the
(55:26):
next ten years are going to fortify teams much more
quickly than they have for the previous twenty where it's
eighteen year olds who are just not ready to play.
So this will be a really fun draft to watch.
There's some really special players.
Speaker 3 (55:40):
Yeah, I'm super excited.
Speaker 2 (55:41):
The extended NBA finals have put us right up against it, guys.
I have Sam Vessini coming on the show tomorrow. He
is an incredible draft guide. We'll be doing a full
NBA draft preview that the actual draft is on Wednesday.
It's literally right around the corner, so everything's right here.
Colin is great to see. Thanks so much for giving
us your time. For all of you guys who are
on the YouTube stream, we're headed over to playback to
take so that's playback dot tv slash Hoops tonight. I'll
(56:02):
see you guys there everyone else. Thanks so much for
supporting us this season. It's been an incredibly successful season.
I can't say enough about the way you guys have
supported us in the show over the course of this year.
And we will see you guys tomorrow morning.
Speaker 3 (56:14):
What's up guys.
Speaker 2 (56:14):
As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting
OOPS tonight. It would actually be really helpful for us
if you guys would take a second.
Speaker 3 (56:21):
And leave a rating and a review. As always, I
appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (56:24):
Guys supporting us, but if you could take a minute
to do that, I'd really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (56:30):
The volume
The volume.
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(02:00):
All right, welcome to hoo tonight. You're at the volume
heavy Sunday. Everybody, hope all the guys are having a
great weekend. Well, today, I woke up this morning thinking
we're going to crown a new NBA champion today. It's
been a long time since we've had a Game seven
of the NBA Finals, and it got off to a
little bit of a bummer start as Tyre's Halliburton goes
down with what we can only assume is an achilles injury.
(02:20):
The eight Achilles tear in the NBA this season a
very bizarre trend, Colin and I are going to spend
some time talking about that towards the tail end of
the show tonight. But the Oklahoma City Thunder are the
twenty twenty five NBA champions, Colin, what's your big takeaway
from the NBA Finals this year?
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Well, our NFL champion Philadelphia is about roster construction and
the best GM, and you have a clear number one,
and that's Oklahoma City. Whereas the modern games about scoring
and wings and high flying, they're about their general manager,
their depth, their youth, their legs, and a kind of
(02:59):
non verse article leading score who goes against type. For
the NBA stars we fall in love with. And you
know I've been saying this on FS one, I've been
saying this for months. Is the NBA now because of
the Aprons and the CBA is going to be like
the NFL. We're going to talk more about general managers.
You can't stack players, and I think you know they
(03:20):
were the best team all season. The home court ended
up mattering against Indie and Denver, you know, really formidable
opponents that had some older star players. But you know,
I think in the end, you know, when you look
back at this season, you'll go, well, they were a
dominant regular season team. They weren't a great road team
(03:42):
in the playoffs, but they were dominant at home and
that's where they were crowned. And you know, that's why
the regular season does matter. It may not look like
the playoffs, but Oklahoma City, I don't think it's winning
this thing on the road, and so they earned it.
And you know, the the injuries, gutting, but that stuff happens.
(04:04):
I mean, Kd's gone down in big games. I mean
it happens. So and I think over the course of
this season, Okasey was the best team.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, I'm not interested in any talk about asterisks. For
the most part, in NBA history, almost every championship has
some injury you can point to that impacted things in
one way or another. And ultimately, I think Oklahoma City
did this to healthy teams along the way too.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
They played.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
They played some really good teams, Colin. They went through
the best the best player in the world and Nicola
Jokic and played him into the first three consecutive bad
game stretch I've literally ever seen him play. They took
that Minnesota team that was kicking everybody's butt and they
handled them like easily. And then the Pacers, who have
been the kind of the enigma of this of this
playoff run, every time they needed to beat them, they
(04:48):
were able to contain them and keep them under control.
You Know, we talked after Game five, like there is
this test that you have to pass to beat the
Oklahoma City Thunder, and it's that when the shit hits
the fan and there's a few minutes left in a
big game where the series is hanging in the balance,
they are going to tighten the screws defensively. In every
(05:10):
single series, the opposing team fell apart, whether it was
Denver at multiple spots in Game four in the fourth quarter,
in Game five in the fourth quarter, the entirety of
Game seven. What we saw in big spots against Minnesota,
specifically down the stretch of Game four. In this series,
in Game four, down the stretch, they just strangle the
life out of Indiana. In Game five, it's ninety five
(05:31):
ninety three off of a Siakam offensive rebound three. It's
a two point game. You're like, oh man, this could
go either way. Literally turns the Pacers over four consecutive
times just with the strength of their defense, and then
again tonight. You know, admirable effort from the Pacers there
in that first half to keep things competitive. TJ McConnell,
I'll always remember the way he played in this series.
(05:53):
What a remarkable performance from him. But they came out
the gates in that third quarter and they tightened the
screws and they turn the Pacers over and they got
out in transition. They finished this game with twenty three
forced turnovers in thirty two points off of turnovers. That's
the star of this team.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
I said this the other day to you, is the
one thing you have to have against OKAC is two
elite ball handlers. So when Halliburton goes down, they play
with guts and toughness and length, but in the end
they just it's turnovers. There's no Halliburton if you don't
have elite ball handlers against this team. I mean, we've
(06:31):
fallen in love with a three and D in the wings.
Well o case he's got a lot of them, but
there is a way to combat that is to have
guys that can create space that you can't trap and
double them. And TJ. McCall's excellent. But again, when Halliburton
got hurt the first time, again they show great courage
and gusto, but there's just limitations on that. You can
(06:51):
only play down your most important players so long. So
you know, there was that I think it was like
at one point there was a go I wrote it
down here. There was a huge nineteen to two Oklahoma
City run. A lot of that kick started by defense,
and so they just feast on teams and you know what,
you know what, they're a little bit like they're like
a fighter who sends his blood. Like, okay, see, they're
(07:15):
not dominant enough offensively to just blow you out against
great teams, against Denver and Indy. They can score, they
have runs, but when they sense blood, somebody's in foul, trouble,
somebody's hurt your start. You know, they have a matchup advantage. Man.
They play downhill, they play downhill fast, and you look
(07:36):
up and you're like, well, this was a four point game.
Now it's a thirteen point game. And you know that's
what great teams do. Their run looks different than a
Jordan explosion or a Shaq Kobe explosion, but nonetheless it's
a burst, and everybody looks different, you know. I mean,
so I listen all my notes here, I look through.
(08:00):
I kept waiting for the inevitable run, and it happened,
and it was you know, it was off turnovers, and
I just kind of felt like I saw an SRR stat.
I think that's what it's called, an SRR stat about Indiana.
And they said, if Indiana wins, they'll be the worst
champion since the nineteen seventy eight Washington Bullets, which by
(08:20):
the way, I can name the entire roster because it
was when I fell in love with basketball. But the
truth was is if Indiana one, it was probably our
weakest champion. Though I love them, and okaysee wins. At
least we can hang this boy, that's a top five
defensive team all time. We can hang something that sounds
(08:40):
like a champion, NBA's leading scorer, deepest team in years,
all time, top five defense that sounds like a champion,
does it not?
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Their defense is one of the great defenses that has
ever played in the NBA like that was true in
the metrics, and all we can do to tie that
case together is what the metrics showed in the regular season,
and then what do you do in the playoffs against
the competition you faced. This was a Pacers offense that
was lighting everybody up, Colin and they got strangled every
(09:12):
single time it mattered.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Nikola Jokic is literally the.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Best offensive player I've ever watched, and he and they
had him under control in every pivotal moment of that series.
That is the type of defense that we watched. You know,
this Thunder offense was frustrating. Sometimes we're gonna talk about
Shaye in a few minutes, Like Shay was great every
time he needed to be great, but there were some
downsides here. He had a game in this series where
had zero assists. They had games where they'd moved the
(09:37):
ball poorly, where they were out of rhythm, out of flow.
They're young players, young players against elite playoff defense. That
that's going to take some time to figure out. And
there's no doubt that if the Thunder are going to
have sustained success in this league, they're gonna have to
figure out some things offensively to be better year after
year after year. But their defense right now is elite
(09:58):
hold the trophy defense, and that's what came through for them. Again.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
I was really interested to see if chet Holmgren could
deliver finally, and I thought in the second half it
was like, Okay, chet Holmgren played with more confidence. That
was my only question. I thought, Man, if this is
a three point game and there's four minutes left, okay,
see Home Favorite could get really tight. And they left
no doubt. But I thought Homegroun and Jay Dubb both
(10:21):
in the second half, played well in that run. So
and that was one of my concerns is that I've
never seen a young team like this young win a championship.
And you know, I was thinking about this as you
were talking about SJ. SGA. Usually, let's say, for instance,
Shaq wasn't hitting his free throws, he still had all
(10:42):
time power. If Kobe and MJ weren't hitting their jumper,
they could go vertical Magic Johnson struggling from the field.
He just had a size advantage. He'd back you down.
Sga is not a vertical player. So if he's off
and he's off center, he doesn't have power. He doesn't
(11:04):
have speed. He doesn't have He's not he's not you know,
he's strong for his size. He's not a vertical player.
He is a mid range maven. Like he is all
time stuff. And so you know I've said before is
he's an all time scorer. But he doesn't feel like
he's in the Curry class where you're like, wow, I've
(11:25):
never seen a human like Caitlin. Clark's got some of that.
You're like, I've never seen that, right, Sga, I've seen it,
Alex English, Keiky Vandaway. He's just better at it. And
so I do think you know when you when you
play better teams and you can get it off his game.
He has a very centralized game. He's tremendous at it.
But I think we both admit he needs a friendly whistle,
(11:48):
and because he's so gifted, he almost always gets it.
It's not like the hardened whistle, which is like feels illegal.
That's not it. It's like that feels unstoppable. Is different
then it feels illegal. But you know he is. I
love him. I love his maturity. He's just a smart,
hard working kid. He's impossible not to root for. I
(12:10):
know everybody doesn't like you know, all the flopping. But
I have a hard time not rooting for guys who
are more mature than their age, with completely refined games
where I can see the work ethic, I can see
the years you've toiled in a gym. That to me
as a grinder, like, I love that kind of basketball,
(12:33):
and I think that's what he embodies.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah, I think it's fascinating because at his age, you know,
being twenty six, he's kind of in this weird role
that's reminiscent of some of the roles that you've seen
guys like Tom Brady and Lebron be in where they're
the elder statesman.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
In the locker room.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
He's the elder statesman in the locker room at twenty
six years old. It's such a bizarre dynamic. But to like,
for if he was an immature player at twenty six,
this whole thing could fall apart because of the youth
in that locker room, and he just brings that veteran presence.
This is the perfect time for us to get into
the Microsoft bit, and I'm gonna kick it back to you.
(13:10):
So welcome to course correction brought to you guys by Microsoft.
Just like Star players and teams navigating performance hurdles, and
business decision makers today are under immense pressure to get
things right. They must rise to the occasion, turning challenges
and opportunities. Microsoft empowers these visionaries with AI solutions, simplified
cloud and data management, and trustworthy responsible AI. And when
(13:31):
you're in the NBA, you have your own hurdles to face.
In this segment, we will highlight the player every week
that has risen to the occasion when his team has
needed him. Whatever challenge you're facing, Microsoft empowers you with
the expertise to say, bring it up. Our player of
the Week this week is the twenty twenty five NBA
Finals MVP. It is now official. Shay Giljess Alexander Colin.
(13:55):
I was thinking about a cool way to frame this segment,
and all I could think about, like you mentioned with
the Washington Bullets roster, You know, everything for me, as
I'm talking about all time greats is kind of played
through this lens of when I started really following the
league closely, which for me was in the like around
two thousand and five, two thousand and six. You've been
watching a lot of NBA basketball for a really long time,
(14:18):
You've seen a lot of stars come through the league
as young players leave the league as vets. What has
been like your first impression of Shay Gill just Alexander
as a playoff performer in the NBA.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
That if I go back to Kareem and the skyhook,
which was unstoppable, unblockable, and he mastered a shot. I'd
never seen a player master a shot when I first
watched Kareem, I can remember as a kid in my
backyard doing it like nobody else shot the hook, Michael
Jordan's mid range game. If you look at a lot
(14:52):
of the great players beyond just scores, they are the
master of their domain. Like I do what I do,
and they're all different looking. There was no other There
was no other Kareem, you know. David Thompson was a
little Michael, but Michael's mid range game he had three
or four stock moves, you know, Tim Duncan. The great
(15:15):
fundamental is that a lot of the all time great players,
and I've said this about Mahomes can be boring. They
have mastered what they do frustratingly so. And I look
at a player who knows exactly what he is, but
more importantly, he knows what he's not and he leans
(15:38):
into all of his skills, and I think when you
watch them play, they can be uneven offensively. The greatest
thing I can say about SGA. He's their clear dominant
number one score. So when you play them, I don't
have to pick Tony Parker Duncan Manu. It's like stop
(15:58):
him and people can't. And that to me is a
fastball Like that you know you can beat them. And
Jay Dubb can have thirty two, or Check could have
twenty four, or Lou Dort hits five threes, but the
numbers are if he gets to the free throw line,
they win. Everybody in the league knows it and they
(16:19):
can't stop him. Like that is precision, That is mastering
a craft, and I just I just have great respect
for that.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, the Duncan comp is super fascinating to me because
Shay doesn't have some super demonstrative personality on the court.
He lacks a vertical element to his game. There's nothing
that like like people who play a lot of basketball,
Like I've stolen little bits of footwork and moves from
him that I think are useful moves for young players
to work on. He's brought his own little kind of
(16:51):
unique flare to the two guard position, just like Harden did,
just like Wade did, just like Kobe did, just like
MJ did. He's got his own like kind of unique
take on it. But similar to Duncan, even if there
wasn't that you know, overwhelming optical appeal, it's just surgically effective.
And no matter what happened in this playoff run, the
most reliable play type out there was give the ball
(17:13):
to Shay at the nail and he's probably going to
either draw foul or get to a mid range jump
shot that he can hit about fifty five percent of
the time. And you know, you know, Colin, it has
not been a perfect NBA Finals for him. He had
some rough games. But here's the thing. Just about every
star struggles in their first NBA finals. Lebron struggled in
his first two NBA finals. It is an impossible stage
(17:34):
to be to be I shouldn't say it'smpossible, it's a
very difficult stage to perform well in. And to his credit,
every single moment in this series where things could have
gone south. So like Game two, you're down one zero,
you lose that game. Series is probably over. Game four,
you're down to one, you lose.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
That game.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Series is probably over. Game five two to two, you lose,
that game. Series is probably over. And Game seven series tied.
If you lose that game, obviously the series is over.
In every one of those games, I thought he was awesome.
This is actually hilarious stat Colin. In the four games
where I thought he played poorly, which was Game one,
Game three, Game four, in game six, in those games
(18:12):
he combined for just nine assists. Okay, just nine in
those four games. In the other three games, in game two,
in game five, and in game seven, he had thirty
thirty assists. He averaged ten in those three games. And
if you watch those games from the start, just surgical
and precise with the way he was navigating the late
(18:34):
double teams, the help at the rim, making the kickouts
to three point shooters, the role man, whether it's hartensteiner Chet,
I thought, Shay, to his credit, every time the team
needed him to be great in the series, he was great.
And I think that is the stereotypical Finals MVP performance.
I thought he thoroughly deserved it, and most players don't
even do this well in their first time around.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Yeah, and you know, I think I don't think they're
a great team. I think they could be with age,
Like next year they'll play and watch next year, Okase
won't be as dominant in the regular season. They won't
be that there's no need to be. You're gonna rest players.
So next year they'll win by an average of six
(19:17):
point eight, not twelve point nine. Right, They'll try to
build up. You know, they're gonna try to build up
their younger players, make their draft picks. They want to
see guys that can play. So it'll be interesting. But
next year they'll play like a champion, and so what
you'll see they'll be a little less uneven to the
aforementioned stats where you saw him bounce a little bit,
(19:38):
you'll probably get a little bit less than that. But
it's also something that Indiana was better defensively than people
gave him credit for. They could put a lot a
lot of length on the floor. And I think we
are going through We've seen it now with multiple teams,
and I was fooled with Denver. I say it right now.
The last seven champions have been very good team. Will
(20:02):
this be a great team. I'm fascinated to watch the
Houston Rockets now right like Shangoon, I'm on Thompson, Kevin Durant.
It's I want to give Indiana credit because the Haliburton
injury didn't matter. But in the end, I still like
Oklahoma City. I think when I look at Oklahoma City's
(20:26):
rough edges, it's mostly Homebrewn just needs another year to grow.
Like one of the roughest edges is God Homebrewn did
nothing tonight, Jay Williams, J Dubb. He can stale Williams.
He can still be uneven, he can be masterful. But
I think most of the things about them are a
(20:47):
lot of them are age specific, as young players in
big games, especially on the road, aren't as good. And
I just so I look at them and I think, oh,
they have a chance to be really good next year,
plays a more confidite team, and I think by the
way their coaching staff will grow, everybody will just get better.
But most of my criticisms of Okay see are you
(21:09):
know you just didn't know game to game what you
got with chet Holdron on the offensive end. When he
played well in the second half, It's like, Wow, that's
a really hard team to beat.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Yeah, this is a super interesting concept. I want to
get a little deeper into this. I do need. We're
going to wrap up Microsoft real quick. That's it for
this week's course correction. Remember Microsoft's AI solutions empower you
to take bold steps and make informed decisions, sparking new
ideas to help drive your business forward. With Microsoft as
your trusted partner, you can navigate your journey with confidence,
finding innovative solutions, and reaching new possibilities. Visit Microsoft dot
(21:41):
com Slash challengers to learn more. So, Colin, to your point,
I saw this stat before the game, Oklahoma City's net rating,
And remember net rating is just how much you outscore
your opponent. Just waited for pace per one hundred possessions.
Oklahoma City's net rating at home coming into tonight was
twenty one. They outscored teams by twenty one points per
(22:02):
one hundred possessions on the road negative six. And so
to your point, I actually agree with you. I thought
Oklahoma City kind of underachieved in this playoff run. They
should have put Denver away sooner, They should have put
Indiana away sooner. They were not, to me a great
offensive team for the majority of this playoff run, downright
(22:25):
ugly at various points. But as we look back through
NBA history, this is what I look at the Warriors.
As a corollary here, it's not just stars that tend
to struggle when they get to the finals the first
time teams do. The Celtics in twenty twenty two, they
really struggled. When they showed up in twenty twenty four,
they looked like a bunch of grown ups. They handled
it way better Golden State. Steph played so poorly in
(22:47):
twenty fifteen. I think he still deserved Finals MVP, but
he played so poorly in twenty fifteen, he didn't get
a single vote for Finals MVP. They were looking at
his teammate as somebody to give the vote to. They,
you know, at various points in that playoff run looked
a little shaky. They trailed to one to Memphis, they
trailed to one to Cleveland. It is very typical for
a team that dominates in the regular season but has
(23:08):
their first truly pressure filled, serious playoff run to be
a little bumpy. And so the point is is like, yeah,
this year they were a mediocre playoff offense that had
an elite playoff defense, which was enough to get them
over the top. But this team has by far the
most room for internal improvement year over year. I'd argue
(23:28):
in the entire NBA, like Jada, you talked about the oscillations.
The oscillations are classic young player stuff. I can't tell
you how many times anybody who spends any time coaching
young basketball players, you'll see them do something that works.
You'll be a nice job, and then they'll go on
the next possession and they'll do something completely different and
you're like, just do the same thing, do the same
thing that you just did, and it works, and then
(23:51):
when they make mistakes, they can repeat them. They struggled
to cut out mistakes and the struggle to repeat their
successes young players over time. You don't think Shay remembers
how he played in those three bad in those four
bad games. He knows, he knows, he learned lessons in
that in that process, and Shay will be better. Shay
will just be more consistent. I believe Ja dub can
(24:12):
get substantially better. Chet was a nightmare offensively in this
postseason run.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Nightmare.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
And this is a guy who spends summers working out
with Kevin Durant, who has, like all he has all
NBA offensive potential, and so maybe they're not that team yet,
but they absolutely can get there. And all you have
to do in this era where nobody's winning multiple championships
is win multiple championships and pretty quickly you will like
(24:38):
establish yourself as one of the all time great teams.
I'm with you, they were. This was a rocky road,
but they got it done. If you were gonna beat
the Thunder, this was the year. This was the year
where they're young, they're thin. Chet has never been in
these big moments before, Like this was the year to
beat them and nobody could get it done. And it's
only gonna go up from here.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Yeah, but I think Houston now has to be considered
very interesting. I contend Dallas when everybody's healthy. Now, I
don't know exactly where Kyrie is going to be. I
love their size and length. I also think, you know,
the NBA, especially out West, has some really good gms.
(25:20):
There's a lot of levers to pull here. And even
though and I've told you, I think draft picks are
going to matter more. Like everybody's banging on the suns today,
what if that number ten pick ends up being a really,
really good player and they have all these second round
picks and they can figure out a way to move
one of the other players and get another first round pick.
(25:41):
And I think Oklahoma City is going to be very
good for a very long time. But I still think
and we've seen it this year, these long playoff runs.
You see it with pitching staffs, and you see it
with teams. You keep going to seven games against Western
(26:03):
teams and in the finals, I don't like it. I
think you're going to have more injuries. I don't remember
a two year stretch where we had more key injuries
to star players. So you know, it's one of those things.
They've got the they've got a lot of depth, but
they do have one dependable score So keeping SGA healthy
(26:23):
and trying to develop second, third, and fourth scorers is
a real thing because they're inconsistent there. But it is
you know, as I look at this playoff series, one
of my takeaways is, and I've been on this four years,
you do not need seven games in the first round,
like and you say, well, it could be a sweep.
You do not need four game sweeps. You could do it.
(26:46):
You could do it in five games or three games.
So I think OKAC is not good enough to be brittle,
injury riddled. I think healthy. You know, we always say
it in the NFL, it's attrition these playoffs. Cleveland fell
apart the year before New York fell apart, and that
(27:07):
I think that's a lot of it. I think the
West is gonna be razor thin keep you know, we
all know San Antonio is gonna take a jump. So
I think a lot of it is if we're gonna
keep doing seven game series. Well, a lot of it
is who's healthy because a lot of guys went to
the floor this year.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Yeah, and Okay, so he's super young, and they just
held up. They kind of physically wore everybody down over
the course of this Playffron because they just have this
deep rotation of young players.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
I agree. I agree with you.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
For the record, I want to be clear, like I
do not think this Oklahoma City team is the KD
STEPH Warriors, Like that team felt borderline unbeatable when they
were healthy. Like I don't think this Oklahoma City team
is unbeatable. I just think we haven't seen their ceiling yet.
I think there's a level they can get to, especially
in the offensive end of the floor, that we haven't
seen yet, and I'm curious to see where that ends
(27:55):
up is does that end up being a team that's
just like all the other champions recently they can't repeat,
or does it end up being a team that ends
up making a mark on this air. But the injuries
thing is fascinating. So we have a shout out to Josh.
It gave us the stat before the show, the Tyres
Haliburton achilles tear. If that confirms to be what it is,
which is what it looked like. I mean ABC made
(28:17):
us watch it thirty times. I have no idea what
that was all about, but that would be the eighth
achilles tear in the NBA this year. The previous season
high was five. What do you make of this, like
upticking these weird severe injuries in the NBA.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Well, okay, the pace is faster, the players are better,
you know, it's it's a more physical postseason. It's just
more taxing on the bodies and these athletes now come
into the season in shape. You're just asking a lot.
I means, you know, like we can criticize Jamal Murray
(28:52):
of Denver sort of playing himself into shape and Luca,
but I think I think there are very few Lebron's
out there where the body just holds up. And I think,
I think guys, I think the level of play, the
level of pace, the level of physicality. These guys are
more like tightly tuned violins and it just doesn't take much.
(29:13):
And so I don't I just do. Listen, college basketball
doesn't have near the quality of talent of the NBA,
But why are their ratings often beating NBA playoff games?
Because of the urgency And we all know baseball you
have to have a longer series because such a big
component of baseball as starting pitching, so you know you're
setting up your pitching. That's part of the chess match
(29:35):
of baseball. But I don't think in basketball I need
a seven game series. Michael Jordan's big years it was
a five gamer until you get to later rounds. And
I just think, I think Adam Silver and I'll give
Rob Manfred and Roger Goodell credit. I think our commissioners
see this. They're very open minded. Manford's made multiple big swings,
(29:57):
you know, which goes against baseball's history. Basketball has been,
you know, a much more progressive, willing to experiment league. Sometimes,
you know, the new ball David Sturn didn't even give
the players a heads up. But the lee Adam Silver
has made you know, the nd season tournament, I think
you have to really examine. And when I had him on,
we talked about this is that embrace college basketball. You
(30:20):
know how you know what Indie, Oklahoma City is to me.
We're all the G League guys. It's a lot of
guys who played a lot of years of college embrace
college basketball as an almost educational basketball tool, not the
school part. Just be what Tom is over two or
three years, like it matters. And also, you have to
really examine the value of these players. If you're signing
(30:42):
a seventy six billion dollar contract for eleven years, you
want your stars playing as long as they can. Halliburton's
injury made me sick to my stomach. The game didn't
feel the same after that injury. I was so fired
up all day. I got home early, I watched two
hours of the pregame show a sick to my stomach.
I'm like wow, and and again I am. I just
(31:04):
think you can the money's not the problem. We got
seventy six billion coming like, money's not the issue. The
owners are all billionaires, let's protect the players. There's no
reason for seven days deniable.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
And it keep the thing is calling too, It keeps
happening on the same play, the same like what they
call it the negative step, where you like step backwards
to try to launch yourself forwards. Essentially the body is
fatiguing to the point that when they're trying to explode
forward at these points, the body's failing, and it's happening
at an increasingly high rate. And it I think it
(31:37):
has a lot to do with just the way the
game has changed, in the sense that the point at
which players are engaging defenders, the point at which players
are being asked to contend with physicalities extended substantially further
away from the basket. You're facing ball pressure and being
guarded thirty thirty five feet from the basket.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Some of these times.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
I bet if you tracked an individual player's movement and
just how often he runs around the floor, just the
straight line distance that he runs, it's probably double what
it was in the nineties in a single game, just
because of the pace, the amount of ball in player
movement that occurs on every single possession.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
It's just a lot.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
And so to your point, like I understand the TV aspect,
and it's like, okay, we go, we get money from
these games. We can't cut games because it costs us money.
If anything, we're trying to add games. Here's the Ncason Tournament,
here's the play in tournament. You know they added that
seventh game to the first round after it used to
be five. Like they are adding inventory that the players
can't handle. And if you really dig into it and
(32:39):
you actually start to look at the way it affects
the product, I'm so glad you mentioned that, Colin. This
is the most excited I've vent for games so long.
And what a buzzkill to watch the best player on
the other team come out hit three straight three, start
talking a bunch of shit to the crowd. Next thing
you know, he's on in a heap on the ground.
It's a huge bummer. And like, these guys can't be
asked to play back to these guys can't be asked
(33:02):
to play an additional two.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
It is June twenty.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Second, Colin, you know how this playoff runt has been
going on forever, Like it is a long stretch. They
have to find a way to make this actually achievable
for these bodies, they are not holding up. In my
theory is that if you tweak it in a way
to where guys can hold up, it'll improve the ratings
just by virtue of everyone being present and bringing the
(33:25):
urgency due to the lower inventory.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Oh, it's just like baseball ratings when when you shorten
the game create urgency. Everybody's I mean, I've done this
ad nauseam. Everybody's on their phones. People are just I'm
watching the game tonight and I'm I'm literally in the
first quarter. You know, I'm sitting there watching the game
and I'm writing some notes, but I'm also reading an
article on the finals as I'm watching the finals. We're
(33:52):
all distracted, So you know, I just I think the
reality is you just anytime you can make make a
game feel like an event, everybody wins. The players win,
I win, you win, the networks win. So it'll be
interesting now because the NBA is going to be on
so many networks and it's going to dilute some of
(34:13):
the coverage. But you're going to have to make it special.
And and by the way, this is what Baseball did.
Fox went to Baseball and said, you guys have to
create the home run Derby's your highest rated non World
Series moment. Create more things like that. So they did
the Cornfield game. They put the Mets in the Phillies,
you know, overseas, and I watched all of them. So
(34:34):
I do think there's a certain apathy in the regular season.
I mean, even the league officiates different in the postseason.
They understand the urgency. So I think they'll get it right.
I think Adam will eventually get it right. He's not
a stubborn guy. I don't think any of our commissioners are.
And I think going from seven games to five games,
you may not think it's a big deal, but I
(34:56):
over the course, it could be four less, four or
fewer playoff games. You know. I feel like Halliburton's body
just gave out tonight. It just it was exhausted. He
just pushed it and pushed it and pushed it.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
I think that's exactly what happened. Again, it's becoming undeniable.
Like there was a point where it was like, oh,
injuries are on the rise, but hey, it's only been
like two or three years. It might be just anecdotal
or too small of a sample size. We're in an
extended stretch here where like dudes are breaking down every
year in the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
Remember last year.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
It was like, oh, the calves are going on Donovan
Mitchell's foot and how were you know? And then oh,
like here come the Pacers and the tyres. Haliburton gets it.
It's like it's it's this like it's basically turning into
a war of attrition more than it's turning into a
battle of basketball. And that's what they have to figure
out because otherwise what you're going to see is the deepest,
youngest team win every year. I mean, and that's more
or less what we saw in the finals, you know,
(35:44):
you know, on so many different levels. But anyway, Colin,
we did get a new piece of news this morning.
Kevin Durant is now Houston Rocket and in return, the
Phoenix Suns are getting Jalen Green, a young player with
tons of potential but maddening downsides at this point, Dylan Brooks,
who I actually think is a very good role player
(36:06):
in the NBA, the tenth pick in this upcoming draft,
and five second round picks. What was like your first
impression when you heard the news today, Well.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
My first impression the Suns were three and seventeen. When
Katie didn't play this year, they stunk. It wasn't him.
He still get a bucket. If he's a leader in Houston,
it doesn't work. If you need a bucket in Houston,
it works. And I think today you have to look
at the Rockets. My take is he's gonna give you
about sixty five games in the regular season. If we
(36:38):
get two healthy years, then everybody's going to watch Houston
via for the NBA Championship and feel like they dominated
the trade. It is, however, a very good draft, so
Phoenix gets the number two ten pick. Well, many people
are theorizing there are twelve players in this draft, the
top twelve players who are All Star potential. So if
they stay at ten or move up to six or eight,
(37:00):
they're getting a potentially really good player, probably with more
than one year in college. And again, I don't think
anybody will ever unlock Jalen Green, like I think he's
the classic, doesn't have a defined game, never probably will,
but we can't deny that he can drop thirty in
any given moment, that he's wildly talented. I don't like
(37:23):
his game, but I'm not going to deny that he's
you know, long, twitchy, fast, very good transition player. He's
just and there are a lot of these guys in
the NBA. You know, they come in and they're talented,
and maybe either they don't work on their game, or
they don't get the right coaching, or they just they
probably have so much talent from sixth grade on that
(37:46):
they never really there's no catalyst for them to like
really burrow down on a specialized you know, not everybody
has just driven as MJ. Right, Like I'm reading the
Caitlin Clark book. I mean, that girl's be he is MJ.
She's obsessed, and it's just like, not everybody's like that.
Some people are just talented. And so between Aman Thompson
(38:08):
and shn Goon is beautiful touch, Kevin Durant and a
series of four or five very good young players. And
I think Adokah is a very good coach. That's a
real team. But I think it's easy to look at
Phoenix and just go, well, they got Green's productive. Dylan
Brooks is a very good small forward defender, can give
(38:30):
you seventeen a night. You got the number ten pick,
you got a bunch of second round picks which you
can turn those into things. Phoenix wanted her a little
bit of a reboot. They got it. But people on
the internet are like, oh, Houston dominated. If Katie got
hurt in Game thirty six, it wouldn't feel like Houston dominated. Right.
They're not bringing him there to be a foundational piece.
(38:51):
They're bringing him in to get a bucket like he
will not be the leader is shen Gun will still
be the I think the centerpiece of the team. Aman
Thompson will be your best athlete and your defensive stopper.
He's gonna be a bucket guy. So that's why I
think it works. He's still one of the top twenty three,
(39:12):
twenty six best players in the league. I would argue,
I mean, I was on the plane when I was
flying in today, I started writing down numbers and I
got to like twenty one. I'm like, he's in that space.
And again, Phoenix was terrible when he didn't play. So
that's my long winded answer on I think Houston will
look like they won the trade, but Phoenix got.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Asked in Phoenix is a sign that like yeah, KD,
Steph Lebron, these guys they're not floor razors anymore.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
At their age.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
They're not going to turn a bad roster into a
fifty win team the way that twenty seven year old
Nikola Jokic could like that. That goes without saying I don't.
I do think though, that kd has been dramatically underrated
because he's been on such a poor roster. I put
this together for you, callin. This is three stats to
show that Kevin Durant is still one of the very
best players in the NBA. He was the best jump
(40:04):
shooter in the world this year. Among fifty eight players
in the NBA to take at least five hundred jump shots,
Kadi was the only player in the league to make
over half of them, and he in second place with
Shay who made forty five percent. And if you waited
it for threes, his one point two to two points
per shot was still number one in.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
The NBA number two.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
He was the only player in the NBA last year
to make at least two hundred pull up jump shots,
meaning off the dribble, while making more than half of
them in three He was far and away the best
isolation player in the world last year. Out of the
ten players around at least two hundred and fifty ISOs.
His one point one to six points per possession including
passes ranked number one in the league, a full six
points per one hundred possessions, ahead of Shay who is
(40:42):
in second place. I think he is when it comes
to refined offensive skill, he is still one of the
very best players in the league. I would put him
in that six to fifteen range, depending on and we
haven't seen him play enough high leverage basketball lately to
see where he really lands in there, but I think
he's still in that range. And if you asked me
what the Rockets issue was, this is a deep team
(41:04):
with a load of big, physical athletes. If you ask
me what their one week at weakness was, it's refined
offensive skill. And that's what KD comes into address. We
were just talking about this with Desmond Baine in the
Orlando Magic the other day. When you take a bunch
of big athletes that kind of struggle with spacing and
you bring in a guy who like, just run him
off a screen and he's automatically gonna pull two defenders
(41:25):
out thirty feet from the basket and unlocks a world
of possibilities on the short role. A men Thompson will
be an amazing short role player. You know that thing
that Draymond Green did for Steph where Steph would come
off of Draymond to take two players and then Draymond
would go right down the middle of the floor and
make the play that broke the defense down. That is
a thing that a Men Thompson has been unable to
(41:45):
do in Houston because they just don't generate many of
those opportunities because none of their shooters are good enough. Hey,
d will unlock that part of a Men Thompson's game.
It is not a perfect roster. I was writing down
all the names on the roster today. They're a little
light on ball handling, that sort of thing they can get.
You know what's so funny, Colin, I remember when the
Sun signed Highest Jones last summer. I was like, why
(42:07):
you already have this redundancy of all these dudes who
can dribble and you're just not athletic enough and you're
not good enough on defense. Like you need athletes and
dudes that can like like beat up people in these
physical environments. You know who could really use Highest Jones Houston? Like,
I think they should call I think Kevin Durant should
call up highest tomorrow and be like, hey, dude, come
with me.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
I think I think Phoenix. I wish Phoenix would have
gotten actually a size. I think Phoenix needs size, and
I think Houston needs a ball handler. And our takeaway
when we watched Golden State beat Houston, we were like, God,
they're so bad in a half court offense. If you
stop shn good, it's over right, like it's just and
so you and I talked about this. He was a
perfect fit there. I thought he worked in New York
(42:50):
because the Jalen Brunson's you know, has the ball a
lot in his hands. I thought he would work with
that offense, whereas Cat can kind of. I always felt
like Cat and Brunston were playing you know, your turn,
my turn, your turn, my turn. Kd's kind of like
I'll sit in the I did it with Russ Westbrook.
I'll sit in the corner. Get it to me eventually.
So I think he fits really, really well, and I
(43:12):
think they have the coach. I think again, it's so
hard to judge Houston because so much of their roster
is young. I like feel like everybody's in the fourth inning,
Like I mean, Amen, Thompson could take a big leap.
I mean, shne Goon's the only one where I look
at him and I think, oh that again. I used
this word a lot. But that's a defined and refined
(43:32):
offensive game. He's got European touch, like he has a game.
A lot of their players I feel like they're just
in early innings. I don't know what they are. So
Aman Thompson's obviously defensively defined. He's so strong and athletic
and aggressive. But KD gives them refinement. This is a
second offensive player. I know exactly what I'm getting. And
(43:55):
that's that goes back to a little Oklahoma city that
one of the reasons Indiana kind gave OKC problems. Sciakam
has an offensive half court game, Haliburton does, TJ McConnell does. Like,
that's three guys, even Obi Toppen. When he hits threes,
You're like, he's athletic and hit threes. They had guys
(44:15):
that they Rick Carlile knew, Okay, this is what this
player does with Houston. Houston's like a younger OKAC. I'm
just not sure what everybody is like. I just need
more guys that I go into a game and go yeah,
I'm going to get twenty fourth tonight from KD and
I can drop two or three plays for so Houston
to me is early innings they could end up being.
They could end up looking at If you told me
(44:36):
next year a team explodes in the West and ends
up winning by seven point eight points, I would guess
Houston because they have so many players that are just
going to springboard to another level here in the.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Next BASKETBALLSSI upside, I think they could very easily be
the second best team in the West and the biggest
threat to the Thunder next year. I think that's absolutely
on the table. They match up well with OKC two
because they have all the big physical size. The ball
handling will be the week as we saw with Indiana,
even Oklahoma City struggled because of their lack of depth
and ball handling against Indiana's ball pressure. But the youth,
(45:07):
the thing that you're talking about in terms of the
wide range of outcomes is super interesting because as I
was breaking down their depth chart today, I'm looking at
it and I'm like, Okay, Fred van Vliet, legit point guard.
You know, Shane gun center, Heyd's you're four, Amen, Thompson.
I think defensively functions as either a two or three,
so that could be either. But then it's like Jabari
(45:28):
Smith Junior is kind of a four. He plays basically
the same position as Katie. I don't think he moves
his feet well enough to be a three. Cam Whittmore
could be one of those guys. Reed, Shephard could be
one of those guys, but like, who knows. And here's
the other thing too, callin Houston's gave up one first
round draft pick in this deal. They still have a
boat load of first round draft picks at their disposal,
(45:48):
so they're high.
Speaker 3 (45:50):
They're like a high likelihood for.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
Like a we bring this team into camp, we watch
them for twenty games, and we go, oh, here are
the two things we're missing. Let's go get what we
need to get. Like they are, they're extremely well equipped
heading into this next season.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
That's where Houston won the trade. They didn't have to
give up another first round pick. That that's where they
won the trade. It's not just KD because my guess
is because of their depth, they won't play Kad more
than like sixty to sixty five games. They want him
for the postseason. There's no reason to play him seventy
five eighty games, because they also know if you're in
(46:25):
the West, Jason, you know you're going to be in
long series. So there's no you know you're going to
be in six game series. In the West. It's not
like the East where you kind of feel like if
Aliberton comes back next year, they're just certain you're gonna
win a lot of series really quickly. You're gonna have
long series in the West, no reason to have you know,
I want KD going into the playoffs, you know, off
(46:47):
about a two games and nine days stretch, healthy and
ready to go. And I think you have to think
about that as a GM with an older player in
the West, if you have a Steph for a KD the.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
Series, that's the thing. Like if they get a Ties Jones,
if they get you know, one other guy of that ILK,
then they will be able to rest Katie not just
for the regular season, but even in the postseason. Like
we saw Houston give themselves a really good chance to
win games even without high level offensive skill because they
just go here's Tarry Eason and and Amn Thompson and
we're picking up full court and you're turning the ball over.
(47:19):
Now and it's a mess. Like they are able, like
they are able to prevent the redundancy that Phoenix had,
where you have a bunch of guys who do the
same thing on Houston. What KD does is so specialized
for them that they kind of have an identity separate,
separate from him, so they will be able to win
games without him. They will be able to carry the
(47:40):
load so that he can come in and lift them
over the top. I think it's a I think it's
a fantastic on paper basketball fit. It'll be ugly sometimes,
Katie's gonna have some nights where maybe the statistical performance
isn't there because it's ugly. They can't space the floor
as well for him, but they will in turn do
the same thing to the other team. So what to
buy Kevin that more for air? Before we get out
(48:01):
of here tonight, con I didn't want to run this
by you because I've seen a lot of victory lapping criticism.
You know. Let's just say the Phoenix Suns have been
the butt of the joke today because they took McHale
Bridges and Cam Johnson and Chris Paul and they turned
them into basically Bradley Beal and Dylan Brooks and Jalen
(48:27):
Green in one first round pick. I get that it
looks bad. Here is where this is where my brain
went this morning. They made it to the finals a
year where because of COVID everyone was hurt, and we
had a Trey Young Hawks team in the conference finals,
a Paul George Clippers team with an injured Kawhi in
(48:49):
the conference finals, and that Sons team. And by the way,
they ran into Giannis, and Giannis beat them four straight
times for the title. So they weren't good enough. Then
the next year they kind of a great regular season
and Luca like embarrasses them, like embarrasses them for the
world to see. In the second round, they weren't good enough,
(49:10):
so they made an aggressive trade. They went and got
Kevin Durant. Every one of us would have done the
same thing at that point in time. It was Kevin
Durant and we had just seen him be so amazing
for Brooklyn in those couple of previous playoff runs. Even
the Chris Paul thing that I would argue they should
have used Chris Paul's salary as a vehicle with which
to bring in more size and athleticism. But they like,
(49:32):
you're like Chris Paul for Bradley Beal, Like, I mean,
come on, right, you could talk yourself into it.
Speaker 3 (49:38):
Again.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
It wasn't perfect. There were mistakes. There are certain things
I would have done differently. But now we're on the
other side of this and it's like self awareness. We're
not good enough. We just missed the playoffs in the
Western Conference, like Katie misses a few games and we
completely fall apart. Like I understand it looks bad when
you zoom out, but to me, what happened to Phoenix
is just what happens when you get aggressive and it
doesn't work, and the truth of the matter is that
(50:00):
there's risk.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
Well yeah, they had the well yeah, the Bradley Beal deal,
and I can't criticize it because for years, I mean
I must have been on the air for five years
saying I really like Bradley Beal. He's playing with John Wall.
You're never going to flourish with John Wall. You got
to get into a more mature group of veteran players.
(50:23):
And then it's just like, over the course of a
year or two, he got really old, really fast, and
really banged up, and he just he just withered down.
So I was a Bradley Beal fan for years. I
didn't understand why he was so loyal to Washington, which
was poorly runed and poorly owned. So I can't I
can't criticism, and I always tend to be a big
(50:44):
fan of being aggressive. I like what Orlando just did
to get banged, So yeah, I can't bang it. I'm again,
if they hit on the number ten pick, They've got
enough second round picks, they got enough pieces to I
think you just have to take more big swings. I
think with Bradley Beal, I wonder if you just don't
buy out the contract, like I mean, that's how bad
of a deal it was. So you know, I think
(51:07):
if they were in the East, you'd have a better
vibe or more optimism. I just think I look at
San Antonio and I look, I still think Denver is
going to be really good. I think they just you know,
I just look at the West, the better gms, better rosters,
deeper teams. I mean, god, we've almost forgotten about what
they're building in San Antonio. Holy crap, do they have
(51:28):
a lot of talent. They're in the second inning. So
I just think a Phoenix relative to the conference. You know,
they just feel like I have not, and they probably are.
But I I mean, I know Matt Iseshbia and Justin Ishbia.
I know Justin actually I met him when I moved
to Chicago. He's part of the White Sox. I think
(51:48):
ownership group now and Matt got really aggressive, and I
think one of the things I've learned over the course
of my life, Jason, it's I made a lot of mistakes,
but it's hard to master two things. Like Michael Jordan
tried baseball, all right, Randy Moss tried basketball. It's really hard.
(52:12):
And I think sometimes when aggressive owners come in and
they think, hey, you know because the sons like don't
have the biggest scouting department, and the owner comes in
and thinks, I want stars, what you're really saying is
I'm moving into a completely different world and I'm smarter
than Sam Presty, right, Like even Sam Presty the James
(52:35):
Harden deal early, he didn't get enough like it's it's
I mean, I look at GMS and football and basketball
who I like and they make big mistakes. Shabbaz Napier,
the draft pick for pat Riley in the heat like,
great people make mistakes. Nobody on the internet, you know,
the trolls don't want to ever admit it, but I
think they came in and the owner was a little
(52:56):
hot and a little aggressive, and this is a hard
sport to master, even the best people. Just you know,
you're you're drafting nineteen and twenty year olds, and I think,
you know, I'm not going to bang on the Suns
because when they made the moves, I was like, I
kind of like it, and then a year later, I'm like, man,
(53:18):
was I wrong? So I can't be I can't stand
on any pious mountain today because I like their moves.
I thought, Bradley be Bradley Beal's been a disaster. There's
nothing else you can say. It's just been a.
Speaker 2 (53:28):
Day that happens sometimes, Like I mean, like the most
recent example I can think of is the Raptors. Like
I remember when the Raptors traded for Kawhi. Everyone was like,
why would you do that? He's going to go to
Los Angeles. He's telling everybody he's going to Los Angeles.
His family's out there, he wants to be out there.
That's where he's going. This is a rental and it
was by the way, if you like remove the championship
from the equation, it's like he went there and then
(53:50):
he left and he went to La and the Raptors
take like the Raptors fell apart after that, Like that's
what happened, but they won the title. But even if
you zoom in on the series, it's like three to
three in Philly and Kawhi hits like a leaning jump
shot while falling out of bounds that hits every part
of the rim and then falls in Like that.
Speaker 3 (54:08):
Was the gap.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
That was the gap between the Gamble being a success
and being a failure. And so ultimately, I feel like
we're just playing the results when we say that, and like,
you know, I look at it, it's like you draft,
you've traded for KD. There was one team who gave
the twenty twenty three Nuggets trouble, one team, the Phoenix Suns.
That the Phoenix Suns were the team that pushed them
(54:29):
to two to two in the series, and it looked
like everything was hanging in the balance, and so like,
for whatever it's worth, it wasn't enough. But yeah, my
take was less like, uh, look.
Speaker 3 (54:38):
At the Suns.
Speaker 2 (54:38):
They butchered everything, and like they acknowledged to themselves that
they weren't good enough to win the title. They made
an aggressive move for one of the twelve greatest players
of all time when he was still playing really well,
and it didn't work out, you know, And that's just
how it goes sometimes. But Colin, it was great to
see you today. Thanks so much for coming on the show.
This has been a really fun season. Shout out to
the NBA for giving us our first good NBA final
(55:00):
in a very long time.
Speaker 1 (55:02):
And our best domestic draft coming up in forever. This
is a great domestic draft. So's that's we've talked about this.
I think with NIL, I think you're going to have
more players staying in college, the drafts are going to
get more domestic. We're also poaching the best European players
with the NIL money. I think draft picks over the
(55:26):
next ten years are going to fortify teams much more
quickly than they have for the previous twenty where it's
eighteen year olds who are just not ready to play.
So this will be a really fun draft to watch.
There's some really special players.
Speaker 3 (55:40):
Yeah, I'm super excited.
Speaker 2 (55:41):
The extended NBA finals have put us right up against it, guys.
I have Sam Vessini coming on the show tomorrow. He
is an incredible draft guide. We'll be doing a full
NBA draft preview that the actual draft is on Wednesday.
It's literally right around the corner, so everything's right here.
Colin is great to see. Thanks so much for giving
us your time. For all of you guys who are
on the YouTube stream, we're headed over to playback to
take so that's playback dot tv slash Hoops tonight. I'll
(56:02):
see you guys there everyone else. Thanks so much for
supporting us this season. It's been an incredibly successful season.
I can't say enough about the way you guys have
supported us in the show over the course of this year.
And we will see you guys tomorrow morning.
Speaker 3 (56:14):
What's up guys.
Speaker 2 (56:14):
As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting
OOPS tonight. It would actually be really helpful for us
if you guys would take a second.
Speaker 3 (56:21):
And leave a rating and a review. As always, I
appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (56:24):
Guys supporting us, but if you could take a minute
to do that, I'd really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (56:30):
The volume
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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