Jason answers mailbag questions from fans on topics including his favorite moves of the NBA offseason like Kevin Durant to the Rockets, Cam Johnson to the Nuggets, and Desmond Bane to the Magic. He also answers why he didn't love the Milwaukee Bucks waiving Damian Lillard to sign Myles Turner, how Nikola Jokic and Steph Curry compare all-time, the ceiling for the Dallas Mavericks when Kyrie Irving returns to join Cooper Flagg and Anthony Davis, what the Golden State Warriors should do, whether the Los Angeles Lakers should try to trade for PJ Washington to add to LeBron James and Luka Doncic, and more.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. All right, welcome to Hoops Tonight. You're at
the volume heavy Friday, everybody. Oh love, you guys are
having a great week. It's mail bag day. Lots of
(00:22):
very good questions from you guys. Remember, if you want
to get your questions in the mail bag, all you
have to do is in the YouTube comments under our
full episodes. Put mail bag with the colon and write
your question. That helps me sort through the comments and
find them quickly. We will be doing mail bags on
Fridays throughout the remainder of the season. You guys are
the drip before we get started. Subscribe to the Hoops
Tonight YouTube channels. You don't miss any more of our videos.
(00:43):
Follow me on Twitter at underscore JCNLTS you guys, don't
miss you announcements. Don't forget about our podcast feed wherever
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helpfulf you leave a rating and a review on that front.
Jackson's doing great work on our social media feeds on Twitter, Instagram,
Facebook and TikTok. Make sure you guys follow us over there.
And then, last but not least, like I mentioned earlier,
dropping those mailbag questions in the YouTube comments. All right,
let's talk some basketball. So first question, what is the
(01:07):
single most impactful move made this offseason for the twenty
twenty five to twenty six season outside of the KD trade?
And what is your least favorite move made this offseason?
So kind of different framework for both most impactful for
me not counting KD, And obviously I think KD is
the obvious one. He turns a team that is not
(01:28):
a championship contender into a championship contender, so much so that,
like I think that I would even argue that Houston
that Rockets were more of like a third tier contender
because of how limited their offense was. They couldn't even
get through a first round series against a second round
a second tier contender, right, So KD vaults you all
the way up. That's obviously the most impactful move. But
outside of that, I would go with Cam Johnson to
(01:51):
the Nuggets just on face value. He's one of the
most talented players to actually change teams this summer, but
that is amplified by the fact that he is a
movement shooter, an off the dribble shooter that is playing
alongside nicolea Jokic. That is a match made in basketball
heaven when you have a guy like we always talk
(02:12):
about this idea when we talked about it with Desmond
Bain and honestly, like, if you were asking me for
most impactful moves, I think honorable mention or call it
third place behind KD and Cam Johnson, I put Desmond
Bain there. I think his specific skill set, in conjunction
with the strengths that already exist on that roster, are
deeply impactful. It's that idea of having a shooter, a
(02:34):
real shooter, a shooter that you have to account for
coming off of screening actions, but then being able to
pair the second piece of it right one a guy
who can set monster screens to free him up into
the probably the best ever in the history of the league,
in that pick and roll partnership as the screener, in
being able to score and playmake out of the advantages
(02:56):
that can come out of that. In Nicole Jokic, everything
you can do, making loaders on the role, popping above
the three point line, playmaking out of those situations, rumbling
down the lane into kind of like quick ISOs in
those situations. He's just he's just the perfect player. To
amplify this archetype of player, a real off the dribble
or movement shooter. It's a little different than Jamal Murray.
(03:18):
Jamal Murray is obviously a much better tough shot maker,
and so that adds another layer of reliability to that
two man game. But Cam Johnson, I think is going
to provide the best two man game with Jokic other
than Jamal Murray in the history of this particular core,
and I think that that is particularly exciting. I think
the Nuggets are going to come out and kick ass
(03:40):
this year. I think they're gonna be a top three
seed all season, obviously barring a significant injury. And again,
we're gonna make that decision when we get closer. I
was talking with Jackson on Monday about our offseason plans,
and we're going to do the same kind of like
power ranking style season preview pods when we get into
late September early October, and we'll make that decision when
(04:01):
we get to that point. But right now, I'm very
tempted to pick the Nuggets to win the title. I'm
just a huge believer in Jokic. It's the best roster
he's had. I'm a big believer in not overthinking things.
I'm excited to see that Nuggets team this year. My
least favorite move and again this is not the most impactful,
but or least impactful, but my least favorite. I'm gonna
(04:23):
go with the Bucks waving and stretching Dame and signing
Miles Turner for the record, I get why they wanted
to try to give it another go with Giannis. You know,
as soon as you let Giannis go, you enter into
that purgatory of rebuilding. We have a mailback question later
today with respect to the Suns where we'll kind of
discuss what that looks like. And that could take years,
(04:45):
and it can involve a lot of swings and misses,
and it's just you guys, know, everybody who's ever rooted
for an NBA team for over a decade knows what
a rebuild is like and how you know dismal that
can be. And so I understand why they wanted to
give it another go. And within the confines of that situation,
them wanting to give it another go with a broken
(05:07):
down Dame taking up a fifty million dollars salary slot
and little in the way of available assets, They've done
about as well as you can. I want to be clear,
Like bringing in a Miles Turner re signing the guys
they did bringing in Cole Anthony, having at least the
best possible type of improvement and talent based on an
(05:30):
incredibly shitty situation, They've done about as well as they can.
But as you guys know, I'm a big fan of
self I'm a big believer in self awareness. Ask yourself
a simple question. Do the Bucks have a realistic path
to true championship contention in the next two years? No,
(05:50):
they don't. I was thinking about it this morning. I
think Miles Turner is pretty clearly their second best player.
He was like firmly the fifth best guy on that
Indiana Pacers team that lost in the finals, and periodically
throughout that run looked like their weakest link. I like
Myles Turner. I think he's an awesome addition. I think
he's a great fit with Giannis, but just in sheer talent,
(06:14):
if he's your second best player, you're not gonna go
very far. Even if they were to package a first
round pick with aj Green and one of these other
salaries at the forward spot, like Kuzmi or something, and
they were able to bring back a high level ball handler. Now,
Miles Turner's your third best player, and you've got someone
in the type of player you can get with that
(06:35):
package isn't going to be a top twenty twenty five
player in this league. I just don't think they're close
to contending, which means they're destined for a rebuild. And
when you're destined for a rebuild, the decision to stretch
Damian Lillard, in addition to waiting to trade Giannis until
he's older, both of those will make that rebuild far longer,
(07:00):
far more complicated. Again, I admire the effort, I just
think it's way too little, way too late, and as
much as it would suck and it would be a
very sad moment in the history of the Milwaukee Bucks franchise,
I think you'd be better served acknowledging that reality and
for whatever it's worth, you got a trophy. There are
(07:22):
many examples, most recently with Luka Doncic, of teams losing
superstars and having to look back and go, man, we
just didn't get it done. The Calves in twenty ten
when they lost Lebron Right like, there are so many
examples of teams that don't get it done and they
have to move on, or they do move on, or
(07:42):
they're forced to move on, something along those lines. And like,
this is a situation where at the very least, you
have an NBA championship that is immortal, it will last forever,
and Giannis could potentially be the vehicle with which to
spring the next era of Milwaukee Bucks basketball. So like, again,
I'm not here just preaching for movement of stars for
(08:06):
the sake of having shit to talk about. It's just
to me about self awareness. I don't think Miles Turner
as your second best player is going to be contending
for much over the course of the next few years.
Even when we were talking about our contender tiers in
the East last year, it's like, the only upside you're
looking at, I shouldn't say last year on Monday. The
only upside you're looking at is, well, Giannis is becoming
(08:28):
a one hell of a point forward and you've got
a lot of shooting around him. Yeah, that's fun, that's great.
But there's better teams at the top of the East,
and there's a lot of teams that are on the
rise in the NBA. Oklahoma City He's getting better. San
Antonio is getting better, Houston's getting better, Detroit is getting better.
You know, there's just it's just really difficult to draw
(08:49):
a line between where the Bucks are now and them
hoisting a trophy with Giannis and Tenna Kumbo in the jersey.
All right, next question, have you talked about Dame yet?
I've been looking out for your thoughts on him coming
back to the Blazers. So I love this move on
several levels. First of all, the nostalgia. I know it
sounds ridiculous to say because he was only gone for
(09:11):
two years, but Dame getting to potentially end his career
where it all started is just cool. Right as a
basketball fan, you want to see Dame playing in the
place where he created all those amazing memories. Secondly, the mentorship.
I've talked before about the impact that Damian Lillard had
on Anthony Simons and how their games kind of are
strikingly similar, and how you can see how Anferny just
(09:33):
spend a lot of time with Dame, or at least
mimicking Dame behind the scenes, working on a lot of
that high level shot making and that crisp quick release
off the dribble and all that fluidity and how it
turned Anferny Simons into a really impactful player in the NBA.
I think Dame can have a similar positive impact on
Scoot Henderson in his development, specifically in his perimeter skill,
(09:55):
the stuff that can weaponize his downhill force, and his playmaking.
I saw zach Lo report that Dame will not have
an impact on Scoot's minutes or his opportunities much at all. Obviously,
that it wouldn't make sense to bring Dame in for
some sort of high usage role in the future. Scoot
is playing that position, and I think that makes sense.
I think it makes sense that Dame would be more
(10:17):
of a supporting kind of like behind the scenes mentor
guidance type of position than obviously some sort of high
usage player for them, and that's fine. I think that's
where he can have the most impact. And then, lastly,
the flexibility. Dame God has no trade clause, so if
he wants to end his career there, he's completely in
control of that. But his contract is also super tradable,
(10:41):
so if he changed his mind. Let's say that he
behind the scenes is feeling great physically a year and
a half from now and he's like, shit, man, I
got some good serious basketball left in me. Well, he
can approach the Portland front office and be like, guys,
I think I would like to go somewhere and try
to win. And he has a tradable contract, very easily
(11:02):
tradable contract. So it just makes a ton of sense
for both sides. It's a great spot for Dame to
rehab and for him to end his career. But the
contract is set up in a way that he has
control over whether or not he wants to end up
playing somewhere else if he chooses to play serious basketball
one more time before he calls it quits. Next question,
what improvements can Oklahoma City make individually or as a
(11:26):
team to convince you and others that they can be
the team to break the curse this post Warriors curse
and win back to back championships. It's all about internal improvement.
Their margins will shrink over the course of the next
few years as it gets more and more expensive to
retain everybody. Everyone just got their big deal this last offseason, right,
(11:49):
But because of the timeline of when they kick in,
they won't actually reap some of the negative effects of that.
In their payroll for a couple of years. But that
will eventually happen, and when it does and they have
less depth and they have less surrounding talent, all of
a sudden, the work of guys like Chet, Holmgren and
Jay Dub and Shake, Gilgess Alexander will become that much
(12:10):
more important. Right. It was more of like a young,
flawed group showing a lot of ups and downs. Like
even with Shee, we saw Shaye play some really bad
postseason games this year. We saw Chet face some extremely
low lows. JDub early in the Denver series some really
low lows. They were able to get away with that
(12:31):
because they had such insane supporting talent, which is going
to fade over the course of the next couple of years,
and those inconsistencies will become a problem. Right, So internal
improvement is their pathway. Now, that's more of like a
big picture thing. This next season, Oklahoma City is more
or less running it back. But even within that context,
(12:54):
the rest of the league got better, maybe not in
the Eastern Conference, but certainly in the Western right. Houston
demonstrably better, Denver demonstrably better, The Clippers and Lakers obviously
a lot of variants there regarding injuries and some older
players playing up to some of their younger capability. But
(13:16):
both the LA teams are potentially better than they were
last year. Anthony Edwards if he continues to improve, potentially better. Right,
the Warriors with Horford and if they bring back the
Anthony Melton and if they make a trade at some point,
they could be potentially better. So the West is better. Therefore,
Okayc's margin for air shrinks, right, even with bringing back
(13:39):
the roster. So what needs to happen in order for
Oklahoma City to make that curse that no one can repeat,
no one can even make the finals twice in a row.
Curse go away? For chet I think it's his offensive polish.
I thought he was awesome on defense throughout the majority
(13:59):
of the playoff run. Not really a whole lot you
can get into on that end of the floor with it,
but consistent catch and shoot, jump shooting, some of his
decision making, some of the ways he was forcing the
issue against guys, particularly like Miles Turner when he would
try to go one on one against him and kind
of like go away from the flow of the offense.
Some of the turnovers and just fumbling of the ball
(14:22):
in the middle of the floor like just becoming a
more reliable higher floor offensive player. I think will be
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slash audio JDub and his consistency. Obviously, he was great
(16:12):
for large chunks of the playoff run, but he had
his moments. He had his moments, specifically in the Denver series,
where he really really struggled, and that inconsistency against a
tougher matchup. Like, let's just put it this way. Let's
say they faced Denver again and the exact same situation happens,
but you have a better Denver team. If Jdubb plays
(16:34):
that poorly for chunks of that series, you lose to Denver. Right,
So Jdub's consistency on the offensive end is gonna be
big Shay's decision making. We saw massive swings in the
way Oklahoma City's offense operated in the Finals based on
Shay and just his willingness to take what the defense
is giving him early in games, and how he can
(16:56):
establish rhythm and flow within his offense. Him being in
that regard, him learning the lesson him, replicating the successes
and cutting the failures. That's going to be how Shay
becomes a more consistent force. And those three things happening
are going to be the key to them actually being
able to repeat in a much better Western Conference. Smaller
(17:18):
things too, like spot up shooting, reliable spot up shooting
from guys like Kesan Wallace and Loudort. There's a bunch
of different things we can get into, but for the
most part, it's going to be the improvement of their stars. Hey, Jason,
you say that Steph is the second best offensive engine
of all time after Jokich. Does this mean you think
Jokic is better than Steph as a basketball player, but
(17:40):
that Steph's accolades make him higher all time. Yes, that's
exactly where I'm at right now. I think that Jokic's
peak is higher than any peak of Steph's career, but
that his overall accomplishments in the NBA for Steph are
so greater at this point that you have to have
Steph above Jokic on all time lists. I I thought
(18:00):
that Jokic staked his claim as the best player in
the world in that twenty twenty three playoff run, right,
And here we are going into the twenty twenty six
NBA season and he's still definitively the best player in
the world, and no one's really truly threatened that over
the course of what will now be the fourth consecutive season.
(18:24):
Steph just never had a stretch like that. I thought
that Steph was the best player in the world, or
I think looking back that Steph is the best player.
It was the best player in the world from about
the end of the regular season in twenty twenty one
until he hoisted the trophy in twenty twenty two. That's
the one stretch that I can think of where Steph
(18:45):
was the best, but it was never definitive. He just
had a case like I was in. I am in
that camp, but I think most folks I'm in the
minority there, like most folks think it was Jannis or
that it was Jokic or Luca or someone like that
in that group. The biggest difference between those two guys
(19:06):
was reliable, variance proof offense, meaning Yokich and Steph. I
actually think Steph is every bit as good as like
a defense breaking advantage creator as Jokic. I'd argue, if
you were just strictly talking about the way that an
offensive player can generate openings for teammates, I think Steph
(19:26):
is right there at the top with Jokic. The separator
for Jokic for me is he's variance proof. His shot
making ability close to the rim consistently is over fifty
percent and in many cases over sixty percent, and so
that gives him a certain amount of like there's literally
(19:48):
nothing you can do, whereas with Steph there's a certain
amount of like, if we defend him well enough, we
can kind of cross our fingers and hope he misses,
and even on his best night, he's probably gonna miss
six out of ten of these, right, And that kind
of just created a certain amount of like a certain
amount of like late game issue that Steph would run into.
(20:08):
Steph was a better late game player than the vast
majority of players in the league, but just compared to
the best players in NBA history, he wasn't quite as
reliable getting separation and creating shots for himself at the
end of games. And I think that that was just
kind of a ceiling difference between Steph and Nikola Jokic.
But the accomplishments are the accomplishments. Steph has won four championships,
(20:31):
and even if we pull out the two where he
played with the greatest roster ever assembled, it's still just
too much of a gap for Nikolea. Jokics to surmount
at this point without winning at least one more championship,
if not multiple more So, Yeah, I think Jokic's peak
was higher, but with Steph, I just think he just
has too much in terms of sheer accomplishments for Jokics
(20:54):
to lap him on the all time lists at this point.
I have Steph pretty high. Now, you guys know how
I feel about centers, But the last time I did
these rankings, I had Steph ahead of Larry Bird. I
have Steph very high in terms of his all time accomplishments.
The big one for me is like he literally played
alongside the greatest player to play the game, in my opinion,
at worst, the second best player to ever play the game,
(21:14):
and he was like just barely below him. And so
that's the kind of like claim to fame for Steph
Curry in this era. Now that you're in Denver, what
do you plan or do you plan on going to
some Nuggets games. I'm assuming you moved for the skiing,
but I know you always took trips throughout the year.
I'm a Loveland Fort Collins resident and I was a
certified snowboard instructor back in the day. Chere's to some
(21:36):
good pow pow days ahead. Yeah, we're loving it here.
We actually just did a trip back into the mountains yesterday.
We drove back to Leadville and we saw I've always
had a thing for super tall mountains, so we went
to go see Mount Elbert and Mount Massive is what
they're both called. They're the two tallest mountains in Colorado
and the second and third tallest mountains in the contiguous
United States, and you have to kind of drive way
(21:59):
back past all the skiing into sort of the middle
of nowhere in the Rockies to see them. But we
got to see them. That was really cool. It was
clear day yesterday too, so it was super pretty. And
then we swung back through Breckenridge. We go to Breckenridge
every year to ski, but we went yesterday just to
like have lunch and hang out. First of all, I
was like stunned by how busy it was. It was
like way busier in Breckenridge yesterday than any of the
(22:21):
times I've gone skiing, and so it was just kind
of interesting to see it in the summertime and see
that it's just popping with all these people and main
streets super busy, and I'm assuming just a ton of
biking and hiking and fishing and taking the gondola up
for views and all that kind of stuff. But we
got to hit one of our favorite lunch spots and
hang out there yesterday. And then door to door from
(22:42):
where we parked in Breckenridge, which was right by the gondola,
to our house was an hour and twenty two minutes,
so and that was on a busy day out in
the mountains. So Carly and I were like super stoked
because we're like, this is gonna be this is gonna
be so cool during ski season, like we're gonna be
able to pretty easily hop back and forth si our
asses off. And our goal is to get fifty days
in this season, and so I want to get like
(23:04):
a work cadence down to where I can like work
in the morning and then like head out there and
ski all afternoon and then come back. That was the
whole reason why we came. It wasn't for anything associated
necessarily with my job. It was just my wife and
I are looking to take advantage of this weird kind
of window in time where we don't have kids and
we have some flexibility, and we wanted to ski our
(23:25):
asses off, and so that's the main reason why we're
up here now. I do plan on going to Nuggets games.
I think we'll do it in a couple of different ways.
I'd like to get credentialed and go to actually cover
a few games over the course of the year, but
I also like want to enjoy it just as a fan,
and so I would imagine specific major Western Conference teams
that come into town and stuff. My wife and I
(23:46):
will just look to go and just enjoy the games
as a fan. I've never I've lived in an NBA city,
but it was when the Charlotte I lived in Charlotte
with Charlotte Hornets, and it was just not the same
quality basketball. So I'm looking forward to getting to see
some high quality NBA hoops in person and over the
course of the next couple of years here in Denver. Hey, man,
I love the show. What do you think of the
ceiling for the Mavericks. I'm a huge MAVs fan, and
(24:09):
I think with Kyrie coming back later in the season,
I think this team has a real chance to contend.
I think their ceiling comes down to two things. Kyrie's return,
as you mentioned, I think one of the unique things
with Kyrie. I've talked about this a lot over the years,
but there are certain scoring players like perimeter scores that
are somewhat immune to spacing concerns because of how gifted
(24:34):
they are at getting to spots in the middle of
the floor and knocking down mid range jump shots, shots
that every defense has to concede to a certain extent.
At the high end it's guys like Shae Gilders Alexander Right.
I thought he demonstrated an awesome example of that in
the Minnesota series, for example, looking at you know, Kevin
(24:55):
Durant obviously fits that mold. To me, Kyrie Irving to
a slightly lesser extent, but I think he also kind
of fits that mold. Is like a spacing proof score
because of his ability to shoot over the top of
defenses and work in very tight spaces. And so if
Kyrie can come back, we already have talked about extensively.
I think this Denver or this Dallas team has the
(25:16):
potential to be outrageously good on defense. The crazy rangey
athleticism on the front line with guys like Anthony Davis
and Cooper Flag and Derek Lively and PJ. Washington and
Daniel Gafford, they're just incredibly rangy on the front. Even
if they end up consolidating a couple of those guys,
they just have an insane like I would imagine it'll
eventually be Lively ad Cooper. That's gonna be an insane
(25:39):
defensive trio. They've got some guards that can defend as well.
If they get reliable surgical scoring in big moments. With
the defense that can keep games close, they're gonna be
really tough to beat. And so I think Kyrie's return
is obviously a big swing. The second piece of it
is that consolidation trade. Like if they could turn some
of some of their dundancies, so for instance PJ. Washington
(26:02):
and Daniel Gafford, they could turn him into a high
level offensive player. I think there's a real upside there.
I was trying to think this morning, just like a
basic example, like what if they could get someone like
Tyler Harrow, Like what if they could flip Daniel Gafford
in PJ Washington for Tyler Harrow. I think specifically with
D'Angelo Russell, who is a very high level like Delo
(26:23):
is a real gracer on offense. Like I think, you
guys are you know, for Delo having the reputation that
he has, like I think Dallas fans are gonna like him.
I actually liked d Lo as a regular season player.
He was very frustrating in the postseason because of his
lack of physical intensity and his lack of attention to detail,
but specifically within the regular season, he just was a
guy that made life easier because he is a guy
(26:44):
that can run ball screens and take the types of
shots that ball screens concede, but also make all the
reads out of ball screens to set guys up with advantages.
And then I even think he would compliment a guy
like Tyler Harrow in the sense that Tyler Harrow is
that like off ball score that can also score on
the ball in action, but primarily a guy that can
succeed within action, which I think would would fit really
(27:07):
well with guys like Anthony Davis and Cooper Flag that
I think could work on both sides of those actions
inverted or not inverted. And so a guy like Tyler Harrow,
for instance, not as valuable on a Miami Heat team,
but could be very valuable on a Dallas Mavericks team
that has an outrageously high defensive ceiling and lots of
guys that can play in and out of screening action
(27:29):
from various you know, kind of entry points, if that
makes sense. So, like I think a consolidation trade is
the next thing for Dallas that could put them into
a tier of serious contention. All right, A couple more questions, guys,
Now that so many Western Conference teams have made moves
(27:49):
which have improved them considerably. Do you think the Warriors
will even be able to catch up once the dust
settles after Jonathan Camingo finally gets traded, or have they
kind of fallen behind and there's little to nothing they'll
be able to do to catch up to the top
tier contenders, who, in my opinion are now Oklahoma City, Denver,
the Clippers, and the Rockets. I think they still have
(28:11):
a really strong foundation. It's kind of like the conversations
we've had about the Lakers. I've had my frustrations, and
I have my frustrations with my frustrations with the Lakers
more in the big picture, but like Luca and lebron Is,
it's just such a strong foundation. You're just gonna be
a really good basketball team just by having those two.
I feel very similarly about Steph, Jimmy and Draymond. That's
(28:31):
just a really strong foundation. I do think they'll get Horford.
I do think they'll get Melton. They have a certain
high floor. Most of this has to do with just margins, right.
An extra three or four wins in the regular season
can be the difference between a playing team and the
(28:52):
four seat, as we know, because of how brutal the
West is, four games, four wins could make all the difference,
even in just matchups in the Western Conference playoffs, like
the difference between let's say you face a Denver in
the second round or first round. The difference between beating
Denver and losing to Denver can be a move, just
(29:14):
like for Denver bringing in Cam Johnson could be the
difference between them losing to Oklahoma City and beating Oklahoma City.
It's about the margins with that type of move. But
to be clear, you're gonna be good right away because Steph,
Jimmy and Draymond is an awesome foundation for a basketball team.
So let's talk about it if they don't. Like we've
(29:35):
talked about how over the years, scoring support is the
key for Steph right having. If you look back, it's
like when when Brandon Pajemski would have a big scoring game,
they'd win. When Buddy Heal would have a big scoring game,
they'd win. When Jimmy Butler would have a big scoring game,
they'd win. But then like when all three of those
dudes would be cold, it would be when they would
drop some games that they probably shouldn't have dropped, right
(29:58):
and so that's where I look at it as like
a more reliable perimeter score could be the difference in
them having that extra three or four wins, or the
difference in their ability to beat one of the higher
tier Western Conference teams. And so I want to be clear,
like they're still firmly in that second tier. For me,
it's just that additional piece, That additional reliable perimeter scoring,
(30:22):
to me, is what they're missing in order to get
into that top tier. But I don't think they they're
in them not making a move to this point doesn't
drop them down out of that second tier. There's still
a very very good basketball team. Hey, Jason, thanks for
doing everything you do. If you were the Phoenix Suns,
what would you do with this newfound cap space and
(30:44):
these roster spots. Seems like we can finally come up
for air and have some skin in the free agency
and offseason game? Would you go after Kaminga? Kaminga and
Green would be just as fun as a basketball fan,
although probably not the smartest. Let me know who you'd
be targeting to help us this year. So starting with Kaminga,
I think anybody, including the Warriors, who could pull off
(31:05):
a cominga deal at a discount, there's value there because
all of a sudden he becomes tradable. Right if you
could get Kaminga at a discount but also have the
ability to let him develop without winning pressure. That's the
thing with the Warriors. Even if they got Jonathan Kamina
at a discount, he just doesn't make basketball sense for them.
(31:26):
But like in another context, if you could bring cominga
in and get him like in that like twenty million
dollar range, maybe twenty five on the high end, and
you can give him like hey, for the next two seasons,
you're gonna get these touches. You're gonna get these opportunities.
You're not gonna get pulled for making a bad decision,
You're not gonna get pulled for losing a game. Just
(31:48):
work on your shit and get your reps for the
next couple seasons. I think if you can bring in
cominga in that sort of situation on that type of discount,
I think that'd be smart. Camina has his issues. He's
not worth max money, he's not capable of playing a
dead serious role for a winning basketball team yet. But
he's still very talented and he does have potential. So
(32:11):
if the Sons could get in on that and get
Kaminga out an affordable deal and give him a long runway.
I'm on board with it. As for the Sons in
their big picture plans, it all depends on what their
timeline looks like. Are you trying to pivot around Devin
Booker and stay in contention or are you going full rebuild.
(32:33):
For full rebuild, there's a proven path. You take on
bad salary in exchange for draft compensation. You play young
players on rookie contracts extensively so you can see who
fits into your long term vision. And then when you
have cap space, you sign reliable role players that you
can need then flip to other teams for more draft compensation.
(32:54):
You use your cap space to obtain the guys that
everybody wants so that you can then trade them for
more draft compensation, and essentially, your bad money sits, your
young money plays, your quality role players that you can
sign a free agency, you flip, and then you slowly
turn it over as you find your guys. You find
(33:15):
a young player that is a clear foundational piece, like
one of the clear three two or three players that
you're going to build your team around, you extend that guy.
You replace your expensive bad money with the young money
you want to keep. Then as your team improves, you
shift your draft approach towards in the middle of the
(33:35):
first round, like lower ceiling but higher floor, role player prospects,
off ball scorers three and D guys, rotation centers, things
along those lines. It's kind of like what the Detroit
Pistons the trajectory that they're on, and the Pistons are
just now entering into that next phase where it's like, well,
(33:56):
now we need to start looking in the draft for
players that are more supporting talent, not foundational talent. We
know what the foundational talent looks like. It's Kate Cunningham,
potentially Jade and Ivy. We'll see how he fits this year,
you know, we'll see if Jalen Duran ends up being
a big picture center for them. But like Asar Thompson,
it's like it makes sense. It's like this role player
Ron Holland. They just they've got their defensive athletes. Now
(34:18):
they need to look for some more refined skill. But
they're kind of in a later portion of that trajectory.
There is a proven path there. Take on bad money
in exchange for assets be the team that allows the
young players the long runway to work and you figure
it out over time. Right, But like that is a
different pathway than pivoting around Devin Booker. If you're pivoting
(34:40):
around Devin Booker, it's very different. Right, Booker's your advantage creator.
Jalen Green's your second option. You already have depth at
center from this last offseason. So what do you need
if you've got three centers and you've got two primary
shot creators. It's all about what fits in between there?
(35:00):
What fits in between there everything the Atlanta Hawks have
been doing for the last few years, drafting guys that
run the floor and transition both ways, that can defend
multiple positions, that are athletic and con grave rebounds, that
can knock down open catch and shoot threes, drive close outs,
and make decisions in the middle of the floor. It's
your classic dribble, shoot, pass, defend role player. And as
(35:22):
long as you have the right guys in your front office,
that front office that can scout that kind of thing.
You find the teams that don't value those guys and
you trade for them. You find them in later draft picks,
you find them in free agency. You just hunt those
types of players. But as I always say, as we
said earlier, I'm a big believer in self awareness, and
(35:43):
I don't see a pathway for the Suns to contend,
not in this beast of a Western conference, not at
any point in the next few years. Devin Booker, I
think turns twenty nine this year, if I'm not mistaken.
So I would trade Devin Booker and I would start
the rebuild process. Like what if you what if you
could get in on Detroit and poach a really good
(36:05):
a couple of young players, Like what if you could
call Detroit and get Jaden Ivy and Ron Holland or
man maybe you can get Poachasar Thompson from them. If
you could go get some young talent for Devin Booker,
that could be the thing that sparks your rebuild process
and gets you on the pathway to actually contending. I
(36:26):
think the worst thing you can do is hang out
in the middle with no viable pathway up, and that's
a dangerous spot to be in working on the margins.
Like that, all right, two more questions, PJ. Washington is
due for an extension and the Lakers need a two
way forward. PJ has already has chemistry with Luca and
could fit that twenty year old starter you mentioned. Would
(36:49):
you move Gabe Dalton or a pick or gave Dalton
in a pick for him, No, I would not. I
think PJ. Washington is a power forward. I think the
Lakers need a smaller and more athletic player at the
two or three. I think like there's a lot of
like big picture conversations the Lakers need to have in
terms of like what type of player they want at
(37:11):
certain position groups. So like if Lebron is your power
forward now and he's gonna play two more seasons, you
need a big picture power forward plan. But I don't
think PJ. Washington fits like that big picture power forward plan,
you know, multiple years into the future. You know, maybe
Ruby Hotch Muraz that, but you know, obviously you could
potentially look to move him in the short term. I
don't see PJ. Washington as a guy that is like
(37:32):
a demonstrable upgrade in the short term or in the
long term. So I wouldn't like, Like to me, I'd
be looking for more of like a like we've been
talking about Aaron E. Smith, We've been talking about you know,
Andrew Wiggins. Andrew Wiggins obviously is a little too old,
but a player that fits more of that two to three,
a better athlete who can guard on the perimeter better,
(37:54):
and that power forward position I think is a little
bit more easy to replace, if that makes sense. So
I don't think PJ. Washington makes sense. This is the
kind of guy the Lakers should be going after. I've
seen you say over and over the Lakers need to
upgrade their athleticism. Does the last three signings help with that? Also?
Do you think it would help the Lakers defense if
Van do played more at the point of attack and
picked up ball handlers full court instead of being used
(38:15):
to rebound because we had so much trouble. No, I
don't think any of these moves markedly improve their athleticism.
It's a mild upgrade, Like if both DeAndre and Marcus
smarter healthy, they're certainly more athletic, but they're they're like,
they're still in the bottom tier of NBA teams in
terms of overall athleticism. I will say it's more complicated
(38:37):
than that, because the Lakers are definitely a better version
of what they were, which is a slow down power
basketball team. But they just don't add. They have not
added athletic versatility. Athletic versatility is what gives you better
chance of surviving four rounds against four very different types
of teams. This doesn't mean they can't win, certainly can win,
(39:01):
but they're more vulnerable now to certain types of teams
and that makes it harder for them to win four rounds. Like,
for instance, one of the teams that I've talked about
ever since they matched up in the regular season at
the end of last year, I think the Warriors match
up really well with the Lakers, and like advantage Warriors,
they're just so much faster, right, Like, that's a team
(39:24):
where if the Lakers got markedly more athletic, I think
the Lakers would match up better with the Golden State,
But as currently constructed, I think they would have some
issues with Golden State potentially a lot of issues pulling
slow perimeter athletes and DeAndre eight and who can really
struggle in complicated coverages out to the perimeter, and then
(39:45):
having a bunch of iffy defenders on the back line
rotating around, like it could get really scary in that
particular type of matchup, right, But who knows, Maybe you
avoid Golden State. Maybe you catch you know, teams that
you match up better against along the way, and it
doesn't end up being an issue. But chances are, if
you play four rounds, you're gonna end up running into
(40:06):
a team that can attack your weakness. And right now,
the Lakers still have a pretty substantial weakness in terms
of that athleticism. And that, by the way, kind of
going back to the PJ. Washington piece, I don't think PJ.
Washington's a decent athlete, but I don't view him as
like a floor changing athlete for this Lakers team the
way that like an Andrew Wiggins would be, for example,
or an aaron Ne Smith. Right. So, like I that's
(40:27):
a big part of why I don't think PJ. Washington's
the type of guy for them to put real asset. Uh,
put real assets on the table for all right, guys,
It's all I have for today. It's always to sincerely
appreciate you guys for supporting us and supporting the show.
We will We will be back next week with our
player rankings getting started on Monday. I will see you
guys then,
The volume. All right, welcome to Hoops Tonight. You're at
the volume heavy Friday, everybody. Oh love, you guys are
having a great week. It's mail bag day. Lots of
(00:22):
very good questions from you guys. Remember, if you want
to get your questions in the mail bag, all you
have to do is in the YouTube comments under our
full episodes. Put mail bag with the colon and write
your question. That helps me sort through the comments and
find them quickly. We will be doing mail bags on
Fridays throughout the remainder of the season. You guys are
the drip before we get started. Subscribe to the Hoops
Tonight YouTube channels. You don't miss any more of our videos.
(00:43):
Follow me on Twitter at underscore JCNLTS you guys, don't
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helpfulf you leave a rating and a review on that front.
Jackson's doing great work on our social media feeds on Twitter, Instagram,
Facebook and TikTok. Make sure you guys follow us over there.
And then, last but not least, like I mentioned earlier,
dropping those mailbag questions in the YouTube comments. All right,
let's talk some basketball. So first question, what is the
(01:07):
single most impactful move made this offseason for the twenty
twenty five to twenty six season outside of the KD trade?
And what is your least favorite move made this offseason?
So kind of different framework for both most impactful for
me not counting KD, And obviously I think KD is
the obvious one. He turns a team that is not
(01:28):
a championship contender into a championship contender, so much so that,
like I think that I would even argue that Houston
that Rockets were more of like a third tier contender
because of how limited their offense was. They couldn't even
get through a first round series against a second round
a second tier contender, right, So KD vaults you all
the way up. That's obviously the most impactful move. But
outside of that, I would go with Cam Johnson to
(01:51):
the Nuggets just on face value. He's one of the
most talented players to actually change teams this summer, but
that is amplified by the fact that he is a
movement shooter, an off the dribble shooter that is playing
alongside nicolea Jokic. That is a match made in basketball
heaven when you have a guy like we always talk
(02:12):
about this idea when we talked about it with Desmond
Bain and honestly, like, if you were asking me for
most impactful moves, I think honorable mention or call it
third place behind KD and Cam Johnson, I put Desmond
Bain there. I think his specific skill set, in conjunction
with the strengths that already exist on that roster, are
deeply impactful. It's that idea of having a shooter, a
(02:34):
real shooter, a shooter that you have to account for
coming off of screening actions, but then being able to
pair the second piece of it right one a guy
who can set monster screens to free him up into
the probably the best ever in the history of the league,
in that pick and roll partnership as the screener, in
being able to score and playmake out of the advantages
(02:56):
that can come out of that. In Nicole Jokic, everything
you can do, making loaders on the role, popping above
the three point line, playmaking out of those situations, rumbling
down the lane into kind of like quick ISOs in
those situations. He's just he's just the perfect player. To
amplify this archetype of player, a real off the dribble
or movement shooter. It's a little different than Jamal Murray.
(03:18):
Jamal Murray is obviously a much better tough shot maker,
and so that adds another layer of reliability to that
two man game. But Cam Johnson, I think is going
to provide the best two man game with Jokic other
than Jamal Murray in the history of this particular core,
and I think that that is particularly exciting. I think
the Nuggets are going to come out and kick ass
(03:40):
this year. I think they're gonna be a top three
seed all season, obviously barring a significant injury. And again,
we're gonna make that decision when we get closer. I
was talking with Jackson on Monday about our offseason plans,
and we're going to do the same kind of like
power ranking style season preview pods when we get into
late September early October, and we'll make that decision when
(04:01):
we get to that point. But right now, I'm very
tempted to pick the Nuggets to win the title. I'm
just a huge believer in Jokic. It's the best roster
he's had. I'm a big believer in not overthinking things.
I'm excited to see that Nuggets team this year. My
least favorite move and again this is not the most impactful,
but or least impactful, but my least favorite. I'm gonna
(04:23):
go with the Bucks waving and stretching Dame and signing
Miles Turner for the record, I get why they wanted
to try to give it another go with Giannis. You know,
as soon as you let Giannis go, you enter into
that purgatory of rebuilding. We have a mailback question later
today with respect to the Suns where we'll kind of
discuss what that looks like. And that could take years,
(04:45):
and it can involve a lot of swings and misses,
and it's just you guys, know, everybody who's ever rooted
for an NBA team for over a decade knows what
a rebuild is like and how you know dismal that
can be. And so I understand why they wanted to
give it another go. And within the confines of that situation,
them wanting to give it another go with a broken
(05:07):
down Dame taking up a fifty million dollars salary slot
and little in the way of available assets, They've done
about as well as you can. I want to be clear,
Like bringing in a Miles Turner re signing the guys
they did bringing in Cole Anthony, having at least the
best possible type of improvement and talent based on an
(05:30):
incredibly shitty situation, They've done about as well as they can.
But as you guys know, I'm a big fan of
self I'm a big believer in self awareness. Ask yourself
a simple question. Do the Bucks have a realistic path
to true championship contention in the next two years? No,
(05:50):
they don't. I was thinking about it this morning. I
think Miles Turner is pretty clearly their second best player.
He was like firmly the fifth best guy on that
Indiana Pacers team that lost in the finals, and periodically
throughout that run looked like their weakest link. I like
Myles Turner. I think he's an awesome addition. I think
he's a great fit with Giannis, but just in sheer talent,
(06:14):
if he's your second best player, you're not gonna go
very far. Even if they were to package a first
round pick with aj Green and one of these other
salaries at the forward spot, like Kuzmi or something, and
they were able to bring back a high level ball handler. Now,
Miles Turner's your third best player, and you've got someone
in the type of player you can get with that
(06:35):
package isn't going to be a top twenty twenty five
player in this league. I just don't think they're close
to contending, which means they're destined for a rebuild. And
when you're destined for a rebuild, the decision to stretch
Damian Lillard, in addition to waiting to trade Giannis until
he's older, both of those will make that rebuild far longer,
(07:00):
far more complicated. Again, I admire the effort, I just
think it's way too little, way too late, and as
much as it would suck and it would be a
very sad moment in the history of the Milwaukee Bucks franchise,
I think you'd be better served acknowledging that reality and
for whatever it's worth, you got a trophy. There are
(07:22):
many examples, most recently with Luka Doncic, of teams losing
superstars and having to look back and go, man, we
just didn't get it done. The Calves in twenty ten
when they lost Lebron Right like, there are so many
examples of teams that don't get it done and they
have to move on, or they do move on, or
(07:42):
they're forced to move on, something along those lines. And like,
this is a situation where at the very least, you
have an NBA championship that is immortal, it will last forever,
and Giannis could potentially be the vehicle with which to
spring the next era of Milwaukee Bucks basketball. So like, again,
I'm not here just preaching for movement of stars for
(08:06):
the sake of having shit to talk about. It's just
to me about self awareness. I don't think Miles Turner
as your second best player is going to be contending
for much over the course of the next few years.
Even when we were talking about our contender tiers in
the East last year, it's like, the only upside you're
looking at, I shouldn't say last year on Monday. The
only upside you're looking at is, well, Giannis is becoming
(08:28):
a one hell of a point forward and you've got
a lot of shooting around him. Yeah, that's fun, that's great.
But there's better teams at the top of the East,
and there's a lot of teams that are on the
rise in the NBA. Oklahoma City He's getting better. San
Antonio is getting better, Houston's getting better, Detroit is getting better.
You know, there's just it's just really difficult to draw
(08:49):
a line between where the Bucks are now and them
hoisting a trophy with Giannis and Tenna Kumbo in the jersey.
All right, next question, have you talked about Dame yet?
I've been looking out for your thoughts on him coming
back to the Blazers. So I love this move on
several levels. First of all, the nostalgia. I know it
sounds ridiculous to say because he was only gone for
(09:11):
two years, but Dame getting to potentially end his career
where it all started is just cool. Right as a
basketball fan, you want to see Dame playing in the
place where he created all those amazing memories. Secondly, the mentorship.
I've talked before about the impact that Damian Lillard had
on Anthony Simons and how their games kind of are
strikingly similar, and how you can see how Anferny just
(09:33):
spend a lot of time with Dame, or at least
mimicking Dame behind the scenes, working on a lot of
that high level shot making and that crisp quick release
off the dribble and all that fluidity and how it
turned Anferny Simons into a really impactful player in the NBA.
I think Dame can have a similar positive impact on
Scoot Henderson in his development, specifically in his perimeter skill,
(09:55):
the stuff that can weaponize his downhill force, and his playmaking.
I saw zach Lo report that Dame will not have
an impact on Scoot's minutes or his opportunities much at all. Obviously,
that it wouldn't make sense to bring Dame in for
some sort of high usage role in the future. Scoot
is playing that position, and I think that makes sense.
I think it makes sense that Dame would be more
(10:17):
of a supporting kind of like behind the scenes mentor
guidance type of position than obviously some sort of high
usage player for them, and that's fine. I think that's
where he can have the most impact. And then, lastly,
the flexibility. Dame God has no trade clause, so if
he wants to end his career there, he's completely in
control of that. But his contract is also super tradable,
(10:41):
so if he changed his mind. Let's say that he
behind the scenes is feeling great physically a year and
a half from now and he's like, shit, man, I
got some good serious basketball left in me. Well, he
can approach the Portland front office and be like, guys,
I think I would like to go somewhere and try
to win. And he has a tradable contract, very easily
(11:02):
tradable contract. So it just makes a ton of sense
for both sides. It's a great spot for Dame to
rehab and for him to end his career. But the
contract is set up in a way that he has
control over whether or not he wants to end up
playing somewhere else if he chooses to play serious basketball
one more time before he calls it quits. Next question,
what improvements can Oklahoma City make individually or as a
(11:26):
team to convince you and others that they can be
the team to break the curse this post Warriors curse
and win back to back championships. It's all about internal improvement.
Their margins will shrink over the course of the next
few years as it gets more and more expensive to
retain everybody. Everyone just got their big deal this last offseason, right,
(11:49):
But because of the timeline of when they kick in,
they won't actually reap some of the negative effects of that.
In their payroll for a couple of years. But that
will eventually happen, and when it does and they have
less depth and they have less surrounding talent, all of
a sudden, the work of guys like Chet, Holmgren and
Jay Dub and Shake, Gilgess Alexander will become that much
(12:10):
more important. Right. It was more of like a young,
flawed group showing a lot of ups and downs. Like
even with Shee, we saw Shaye play some really bad
postseason games this year. We saw Chet face some extremely
low lows. JDub early in the Denver series some really
low lows. They were able to get away with that
(12:31):
because they had such insane supporting talent, which is going
to fade over the course of the next couple of years,
and those inconsistencies will become a problem. Right, So internal
improvement is their pathway. Now, that's more of like a
big picture thing. This next season, Oklahoma City is more
or less running it back. But even within that context,
(12:54):
the rest of the league got better, maybe not in
the Eastern Conference, but certainly in the Western right. Houston
demonstrably better, Denver demonstrably better, The Clippers and Lakers obviously
a lot of variants there regarding injuries and some older
players playing up to some of their younger capability. But
(13:16):
both the LA teams are potentially better than they were
last year. Anthony Edwards if he continues to improve, potentially better. Right,
the Warriors with Horford and if they bring back the
Anthony Melton and if they make a trade at some point,
they could be potentially better. So the West is better. Therefore,
Okayc's margin for air shrinks, right, even with bringing back
(13:39):
the roster. So what needs to happen in order for
Oklahoma City to make that curse that no one can repeat,
no one can even make the finals twice in a row.
Curse go away? For chet I think it's his offensive polish.
I thought he was awesome on defense throughout the majority
(13:59):
of the playoff run. Not really a whole lot you
can get into on that end of the floor with it,
but consistent catch and shoot, jump shooting, some of his
decision making, some of the ways he was forcing the
issue against guys, particularly like Miles Turner when he would
try to go one on one against him and kind
of like go away from the flow of the offense.
Some of the turnovers and just fumbling of the ball
(14:22):
in the middle of the floor like just becoming a
more reliable higher floor offensive player. I think will be
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slash audio JDub and his consistency. Obviously, he was great
(16:12):
for large chunks of the playoff run, but he had
his moments. He had his moments, specifically in the Denver series,
where he really really struggled, and that inconsistency against a
tougher matchup. Like, let's just put it this way. Let's
say they faced Denver again and the exact same situation happens,
but you have a better Denver team. If Jdubb plays
(16:34):
that poorly for chunks of that series, you lose to Denver. Right,
So Jdub's consistency on the offensive end is gonna be
big Shay's decision making. We saw massive swings in the
way Oklahoma City's offense operated in the Finals based on
Shay and just his willingness to take what the defense
is giving him early in games, and how he can
(16:56):
establish rhythm and flow within his offense. Him being in
that regard, him learning the lesson him, replicating the successes
and cutting the failures. That's going to be how Shay
becomes a more consistent force. And those three things happening
are going to be the key to them actually being
able to repeat in a much better Western Conference. Smaller
(17:18):
things too, like spot up shooting, reliable spot up shooting
from guys like Kesan Wallace and Loudort. There's a bunch
of different things we can get into, but for the
most part, it's going to be the improvement of their stars. Hey, Jason,
you say that Steph is the second best offensive engine
of all time after Jokich. Does this mean you think
Jokic is better than Steph as a basketball player, but
(17:40):
that Steph's accolades make him higher all time. Yes, that's
exactly where I'm at right now. I think that Jokic's
peak is higher than any peak of Steph's career, but
that his overall accomplishments in the NBA for Steph are
so greater at this point that you have to have
Steph above Jokic on all time lists. I I thought
(18:00):
that Jokic staked his claim as the best player in
the world in that twenty twenty three playoff run, right,
And here we are going into the twenty twenty six
NBA season and he's still definitively the best player in
the world, and no one's really truly threatened that over
the course of what will now be the fourth consecutive season.
(18:24):
Steph just never had a stretch like that. I thought
that Steph was the best player in the world, or
I think looking back that Steph is the best player.
It was the best player in the world from about
the end of the regular season in twenty twenty one
until he hoisted the trophy in twenty twenty two. That's
the one stretch that I can think of where Steph
(18:45):
was the best, but it was never definitive. He just
had a case like I was in. I am in
that camp, but I think most folks I'm in the
minority there, like most folks think it was Jannis or
that it was Jokic or Luca or someone like that
in that group. The biggest difference between those two guys
(19:06):
was reliable, variance proof offense, meaning Yokich and Steph. I
actually think Steph is every bit as good as like
a defense breaking advantage creator as Jokic. I'd argue, if
you were just strictly talking about the way that an
offensive player can generate openings for teammates, I think Steph
(19:26):
is right there at the top with Jokic. The separator
for Jokic for me is he's variance proof. His shot
making ability close to the rim consistently is over fifty
percent and in many cases over sixty percent, and so
that gives him a certain amount of like there's literally
(19:48):
nothing you can do, whereas with Steph there's a certain
amount of like, if we defend him well enough, we
can kind of cross our fingers and hope he misses,
and even on his best night, he's probably gonna miss
six out of ten of these, right, And that kind
of just created a certain amount of like a certain
amount of like late game issue that Steph would run into.
(20:08):
Steph was a better late game player than the vast
majority of players in the league, but just compared to
the best players in NBA history, he wasn't quite as
reliable getting separation and creating shots for himself at the
end of games. And I think that that was just
kind of a ceiling difference between Steph and Nikola Jokic.
But the accomplishments are the accomplishments. Steph has won four championships,
(20:31):
and even if we pull out the two where he
played with the greatest roster ever assembled, it's still just
too much of a gap for Nikolea. Jokics to surmount
at this point without winning at least one more championship,
if not multiple more So, Yeah, I think Jokic's peak
was higher, but with Steph, I just think he just
has too much in terms of sheer accomplishments for Jokics
(20:54):
to lap him on the all time lists at this point.
I have Steph pretty high. Now, you guys know how
I feel about centers, But the last time I did
these rankings, I had Steph ahead of Larry Bird. I
have Steph very high in terms of his all time accomplishments.
The big one for me is like he literally played
alongside the greatest player to play the game, in my opinion,
at worst, the second best player to ever play the game,
(21:14):
and he was like just barely below him. And so
that's the kind of like claim to fame for Steph
Curry in this era. Now that you're in Denver, what
do you plan or do you plan on going to
some Nuggets games. I'm assuming you moved for the skiing,
but I know you always took trips throughout the year.
I'm a Loveland Fort Collins resident and I was a
certified snowboard instructor back in the day. Chere's to some
(21:36):
good pow pow days ahead. Yeah, we're loving it here.
We actually just did a trip back into the mountains yesterday.
We drove back to Leadville and we saw I've always
had a thing for super tall mountains, so we went
to go see Mount Elbert and Mount Massive is what
they're both called. They're the two tallest mountains in Colorado
and the second and third tallest mountains in the contiguous
United States, and you have to kind of drive way
(21:59):
back past all the skiing into sort of the middle
of nowhere in the Rockies to see them. But we
got to see them. That was really cool. It was
clear day yesterday too, so it was super pretty. And
then we swung back through Breckenridge. We go to Breckenridge
every year to ski, but we went yesterday just to
like have lunch and hang out. First of all, I
was like stunned by how busy it was. It was
like way busier in Breckenridge yesterday than any of the
(22:21):
times I've gone skiing, and so it was just kind
of interesting to see it in the summertime and see
that it's just popping with all these people and main
streets super busy, and I'm assuming just a ton of
biking and hiking and fishing and taking the gondola up
for views and all that kind of stuff. But we
got to hit one of our favorite lunch spots and
hang out there yesterday. And then door to door from
(22:42):
where we parked in Breckenridge, which was right by the gondola,
to our house was an hour and twenty two minutes,
so and that was on a busy day out in
the mountains. So Carly and I were like super stoked
because we're like, this is gonna be this is gonna
be so cool during ski season, like we're gonna be
able to pretty easily hop back and forth si our
asses off. And our goal is to get fifty days
in this season, and so I want to get like
(23:04):
a work cadence down to where I can like work
in the morning and then like head out there and
ski all afternoon and then come back. That was the
whole reason why we came. It wasn't for anything associated
necessarily with my job. It was just my wife and
I are looking to take advantage of this weird kind
of window in time where we don't have kids and
we have some flexibility, and we wanted to ski our
(23:25):
asses off, and so that's the main reason why we're
up here now. I do plan on going to Nuggets games.
I think we'll do it in a couple of different ways.
I'd like to get credentialed and go to actually cover
a few games over the course of the year, but
I also like want to enjoy it just as a fan,
and so I would imagine specific major Western Conference teams
that come into town and stuff. My wife and I
(23:46):
will just look to go and just enjoy the games
as a fan. I've never I've lived in an NBA city,
but it was when the Charlotte I lived in Charlotte
with Charlotte Hornets, and it was just not the same
quality basketball. So I'm looking forward to getting to see
some high quality NBA hoops in person and over the
course of the next couple of years here in Denver. Hey, man,
I love the show. What do you think of the
ceiling for the Mavericks. I'm a huge MAVs fan, and
(24:09):
I think with Kyrie coming back later in the season,
I think this team has a real chance to contend.
I think their ceiling comes down to two things. Kyrie's return,
as you mentioned, I think one of the unique things
with Kyrie. I've talked about this a lot over the years,
but there are certain scoring players like perimeter scores that
are somewhat immune to spacing concerns because of how gifted
(24:34):
they are at getting to spots in the middle of
the floor and knocking down mid range jump shots, shots
that every defense has to concede to a certain extent.
At the high end it's guys like Shae Gilders Alexander Right.
I thought he demonstrated an awesome example of that in
the Minnesota series, for example, looking at you know, Kevin
(24:55):
Durant obviously fits that mold. To me, Kyrie Irving to
a slightly lesser extent, but I think he also kind
of fits that mold. Is like a spacing proof score
because of his ability to shoot over the top of
defenses and work in very tight spaces. And so if
Kyrie can come back, we already have talked about extensively.
I think this Denver or this Dallas team has the
(25:16):
potential to be outrageously good on defense. The crazy rangey
athleticism on the front line with guys like Anthony Davis
and Cooper Flag and Derek Lively and PJ. Washington and
Daniel Gafford, they're just incredibly rangy on the front. Even
if they end up consolidating a couple of those guys,
they just have an insane like I would imagine it'll
eventually be Lively ad Cooper. That's gonna be an insane
(25:39):
defensive trio. They've got some guards that can defend as well.
If they get reliable surgical scoring in big moments. With
the defense that can keep games close, they're gonna be
really tough to beat. And so I think Kyrie's return
is obviously a big swing. The second piece of it
is that consolidation trade. Like if they could turn some
of some of their dundancies, so for instance PJ. Washington
(26:02):
and Daniel Gafford, they could turn him into a high
level offensive player. I think there's a real upside there.
I was trying to think this morning, just like a
basic example, like what if they could get someone like
Tyler Harrow, Like what if they could flip Daniel Gafford
in PJ Washington for Tyler Harrow. I think specifically with
D'Angelo Russell, who is a very high level like Delo
(26:23):
is a real gracer on offense. Like I think, you
guys are you know, for Delo having the reputation that
he has, like I think Dallas fans are gonna like him.
I actually liked d Lo as a regular season player.
He was very frustrating in the postseason because of his
lack of physical intensity and his lack of attention to detail,
but specifically within the regular season, he just was a
guy that made life easier because he is a guy
(26:44):
that can run ball screens and take the types of
shots that ball screens concede, but also make all the
reads out of ball screens to set guys up with advantages.
And then I even think he would compliment a guy
like Tyler Harrow in the sense that Tyler Harrow is
that like off ball score that can also score on
the ball in action, but primarily a guy that can
succeed within action, which I think would would fit really
(27:07):
well with guys like Anthony Davis and Cooper Flag that
I think could work on both sides of those actions
inverted or not inverted. And so a guy like Tyler Harrow,
for instance, not as valuable on a Miami Heat team,
but could be very valuable on a Dallas Mavericks team
that has an outrageously high defensive ceiling and lots of
guys that can play in and out of screening action
(27:29):
from various you know, kind of entry points, if that
makes sense. So, like I think a consolidation trade is
the next thing for Dallas that could put them into
a tier of serious contention. All right, A couple more questions, guys,
Now that so many Western Conference teams have made moves
(27:49):
which have improved them considerably. Do you think the Warriors
will even be able to catch up once the dust
settles after Jonathan Camingo finally gets traded, or have they
kind of fallen behind and there's little to nothing they'll
be able to do to catch up to the top
tier contenders, who, in my opinion are now Oklahoma City, Denver,
the Clippers, and the Rockets. I think they still have
(28:11):
a really strong foundation. It's kind of like the conversations
we've had about the Lakers. I've had my frustrations, and
I have my frustrations with my frustrations with the Lakers
more in the big picture, but like Luca and lebron Is,
it's just such a strong foundation. You're just gonna be
a really good basketball team just by having those two.
I feel very similarly about Steph, Jimmy and Draymond. That's
(28:31):
just a really strong foundation. I do think they'll get Horford.
I do think they'll get Melton. They have a certain
high floor. Most of this has to do with just margins, right.
An extra three or four wins in the regular season
can be the difference between a playing team and the
(28:52):
four seat, as we know, because of how brutal the
West is, four games, four wins could make all the difference,
even in just matchups in the Western Conference playoffs, like
the difference between let's say you face a Denver in
the second round or first round. The difference between beating
Denver and losing to Denver can be a move, just
(29:14):
like for Denver bringing in Cam Johnson could be the
difference between them losing to Oklahoma City and beating Oklahoma City.
It's about the margins with that type of move. But
to be clear, you're gonna be good right away because Steph,
Jimmy and Draymond is an awesome foundation for a basketball team.
So let's talk about it if they don't. Like we've
(29:35):
talked about how over the years, scoring support is the
key for Steph right having. If you look back, it's
like when when Brandon Pajemski would have a big scoring game,
they'd win. When Buddy Heal would have a big scoring game,
they'd win. When Jimmy Butler would have a big scoring game,
they'd win. But then like when all three of those
dudes would be cold, it would be when they would
drop some games that they probably shouldn't have dropped, right
(29:58):
and so that's where I look at it as like
a more reliable perimeter score could be the difference in
them having that extra three or four wins, or the
difference in their ability to beat one of the higher
tier Western Conference teams. And so I want to be clear,
like they're still firmly in that second tier. For me,
it's just that additional piece, That additional reliable perimeter scoring,
(30:22):
to me, is what they're missing in order to get
into that top tier. But I don't think they they're
in them not making a move to this point doesn't
drop them down out of that second tier. There's still
a very very good basketball team. Hey, Jason, thanks for
doing everything you do. If you were the Phoenix Suns,
what would you do with this newfound cap space and
(30:44):
these roster spots. Seems like we can finally come up
for air and have some skin in the free agency
and offseason game? Would you go after Kaminga? Kaminga and
Green would be just as fun as a basketball fan,
although probably not the smartest. Let me know who you'd
be targeting to help us this year. So starting with Kaminga,
I think anybody, including the Warriors, who could pull off
(31:05):
a cominga deal at a discount, there's value there because
all of a sudden he becomes tradable. Right if you
could get Kaminga at a discount but also have the
ability to let him develop without winning pressure. That's the
thing with the Warriors. Even if they got Jonathan Kamina
at a discount, he just doesn't make basketball sense for them.
(31:26):
But like in another context, if you could bring cominga
in and get him like in that like twenty million
dollar range, maybe twenty five on the high end, and
you can give him like hey, for the next two seasons,
you're gonna get these touches. You're gonna get these opportunities.
You're not gonna get pulled for making a bad decision,
You're not gonna get pulled for losing a game. Just
(31:48):
work on your shit and get your reps for the
next couple seasons. I think if you can bring in
cominga in that sort of situation on that type of discount,
I think that'd be smart. Camina has his issues. He's
not worth max money, he's not capable of playing a
dead serious role for a winning basketball team yet. But
he's still very talented and he does have potential. So
(32:11):
if the Sons could get in on that and get
Kaminga out an affordable deal and give him a long runway.
I'm on board with it. As for the Sons in
their big picture plans, it all depends on what their
timeline looks like. Are you trying to pivot around Devin
Booker and stay in contention or are you going full rebuild.
(32:33):
For full rebuild, there's a proven path. You take on
bad salary in exchange for draft compensation. You play young
players on rookie contracts extensively so you can see who
fits into your long term vision. And then when you
have cap space, you sign reliable role players that you
can need then flip to other teams for more draft compensation.
(32:54):
You use your cap space to obtain the guys that
everybody wants so that you can then trade them for
more draft compensation, and essentially, your bad money sits, your
young money plays, your quality role players that you can
sign a free agency, you flip, and then you slowly
turn it over as you find your guys. You find
(33:15):
a young player that is a clear foundational piece, like
one of the clear three two or three players that
you're going to build your team around, you extend that guy.
You replace your expensive bad money with the young money
you want to keep. Then as your team improves, you
shift your draft approach towards in the middle of the
(33:35):
first round, like lower ceiling but higher floor, role player prospects,
off ball scorers three and D guys, rotation centers, things
along those lines. It's kind of like what the Detroit
Pistons the trajectory that they're on, and the Pistons are
just now entering into that next phase where it's like, well,
(33:56):
now we need to start looking in the draft for
players that are more supporting talent, not foundational talent. We
know what the foundational talent looks like. It's Kate Cunningham,
potentially Jade and Ivy. We'll see how he fits this year,
you know, we'll see if Jalen Duran ends up being
a big picture center for them. But like Asar Thompson,
it's like it makes sense. It's like this role player
Ron Holland. They just they've got their defensive athletes. Now
(34:18):
they need to look for some more refined skill. But
they're kind of in a later portion of that trajectory.
There is a proven path there. Take on bad money
in exchange for assets be the team that allows the
young players the long runway to work and you figure
it out over time. Right, But like that is a
different pathway than pivoting around Devin Booker. If you're pivoting
(34:40):
around Devin Booker, it's very different. Right, Booker's your advantage creator.
Jalen Green's your second option. You already have depth at
center from this last offseason. So what do you need
if you've got three centers and you've got two primary
shot creators. It's all about what fits in between there?
(35:00):
What fits in between there everything the Atlanta Hawks have
been doing for the last few years, drafting guys that
run the floor and transition both ways, that can defend
multiple positions, that are athletic and con grave rebounds, that
can knock down open catch and shoot threes, drive close outs,
and make decisions in the middle of the floor. It's
your classic dribble, shoot, pass, defend role player. And as
(35:22):
long as you have the right guys in your front office,
that front office that can scout that kind of thing.
You find the teams that don't value those guys and
you trade for them. You find them in later draft picks,
you find them in free agency. You just hunt those
types of players. But as I always say, as we
said earlier, I'm a big believer in self awareness, and
(35:43):
I don't see a pathway for the Suns to contend,
not in this beast of a Western conference, not at
any point in the next few years. Devin Booker, I
think turns twenty nine this year, if I'm not mistaken.
So I would trade Devin Booker and I would start
the rebuild process. Like what if you what if you
could get in on Detroit and poach a really good
(36:05):
a couple of young players, Like what if you could
call Detroit and get Jaden Ivy and Ron Holland or
man maybe you can get Poachasar Thompson from them. If
you could go get some young talent for Devin Booker,
that could be the thing that sparks your rebuild process
and gets you on the pathway to actually contending. I
(36:26):
think the worst thing you can do is hang out
in the middle with no viable pathway up, and that's
a dangerous spot to be in working on the margins.
Like that, all right, two more questions, PJ. Washington is
due for an extension and the Lakers need a two
way forward. PJ has already has chemistry with Luca and
could fit that twenty year old starter you mentioned. Would
(36:49):
you move Gabe Dalton or a pick or gave Dalton
in a pick for him, No, I would not. I
think PJ. Washington is a power forward. I think the
Lakers need a smaller and more athletic player at the
two or three. I think like there's a lot of
like big picture conversations the Lakers need to have in
terms of like what type of player they want at
(37:11):
certain position groups. So like if Lebron is your power
forward now and he's gonna play two more seasons, you
need a big picture power forward plan. But I don't
think PJ. Washington fits like that big picture power forward plan,
you know, multiple years into the future. You know, maybe
Ruby Hotch Muraz that, but you know, obviously you could
potentially look to move him in the short term. I
don't see PJ. Washington as a guy that is like
(37:32):
a demonstrable upgrade in the short term or in the
long term. So I wouldn't like, Like to me, I'd
be looking for more of like a like we've been
talking about Aaron E. Smith, We've been talking about you know,
Andrew Wiggins. Andrew Wiggins obviously is a little too old,
but a player that fits more of that two to three,
a better athlete who can guard on the perimeter better,
(37:54):
and that power forward position I think is a little
bit more easy to replace, if that makes sense. So
I don't think PJ. Washington makes sense. This is the
kind of guy the Lakers should be going after. I've
seen you say over and over the Lakers need to
upgrade their athleticism. Does the last three signings help with that? Also?
Do you think it would help the Lakers defense if
Van do played more at the point of attack and
picked up ball handlers full court instead of being used
(38:15):
to rebound because we had so much trouble. No, I
don't think any of these moves markedly improve their athleticism.
It's a mild upgrade, Like if both DeAndre and Marcus
smarter healthy, they're certainly more athletic, but they're they're like,
they're still in the bottom tier of NBA teams in
terms of overall athleticism. I will say it's more complicated
(38:37):
than that, because the Lakers are definitely a better version
of what they were, which is a slow down power
basketball team. But they just don't add. They have not
added athletic versatility. Athletic versatility is what gives you better
chance of surviving four rounds against four very different types
of teams. This doesn't mean they can't win, certainly can win,
(39:01):
but they're more vulnerable now to certain types of teams
and that makes it harder for them to win four rounds. Like,
for instance, one of the teams that I've talked about
ever since they matched up in the regular season at
the end of last year, I think the Warriors match
up really well with the Lakers, and like advantage Warriors,
they're just so much faster, right, Like, that's a team
(39:24):
where if the Lakers got markedly more athletic, I think
the Lakers would match up better with the Golden State,
But as currently constructed, I think they would have some
issues with Golden State potentially a lot of issues pulling
slow perimeter athletes and DeAndre eight and who can really
struggle in complicated coverages out to the perimeter, and then
(39:45):
having a bunch of iffy defenders on the back line
rotating around, like it could get really scary in that
particular type of matchup, right, But who knows, Maybe you
avoid Golden State. Maybe you catch you know, teams that
you match up better against along the way, and it
doesn't end up being an issue. But chances are, if
you play four rounds, you're gonna end up running into
(40:06):
a team that can attack your weakness. And right now,
the Lakers still have a pretty substantial weakness in terms
of that athleticism. And that, by the way, kind of
going back to the PJ. Washington piece, I don't think PJ.
Washington's a decent athlete, but I don't view him as
like a floor changing athlete for this Lakers team the
way that like an Andrew Wiggins would be, for example,
or an aaron Ne Smith. Right. So, like I that's
(40:27):
a big part of why I don't think PJ. Washington's
the type of guy for them to put real asset. Uh,
put real assets on the table for all right, guys,
It's all I have for today. It's always to sincerely
appreciate you guys for supporting us and supporting the show.
We will We will be back next week with our
player rankings getting started on Monday. I will see you
guys then,
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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