3 & Out - Sean Payton BELIEVES in the Broncos, NFL betting odds, What to expect from DK Metcalf

John dives into Broncos head coach Sean Payton's comments on Bo Nix and how he is "light years" ahead of where he was last year and how he believes in this Broncos team as much, if not more than many of his Saints teams that he coached. 

Next, John talks about some of the best early betting odds for teams and how placing certain bets this early is a smart move to win more money. Later, talking about betting, John talks about a wild story of Andrew Tulloch turning down $1.5 Billion to bet on himself.

Finally, John answers your questions in this episode's mailbag segment.

05:10 - Sean Payton and the Broncos

23:23 - NFL Betting odds

35:24 - Wild AI story

45:37 - Mailbag

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. What is going on everybody? How are we doing?
I am I'm excited to be here, well, given this
is my house, but I'm excited to be talking about

(00:23):
football because that's what we do. I did a podcast
yesterday with Colin, so you can find that on his
YouTube channel. You can find that wherever you listen to podcasts, Apple, Spotify,
you guys know the drill. So I did not do
anything on the three and Out podcast feed channel. But
I'm excited to talk a little ball today because Sean
Payton had some comments that I went, wow, he's not kidding.

(00:47):
He loves this team. A lot of positive momentum, kind
of a little different vibe right now in Chicago. So
we'll dive into those two teams, which Colin and I
have talked a lot about the young quarterback, so I
kind of want to piggyback of what we've been discussing.
And then I was looking today on the DraftKings app.
There's one team I've been a hit on betting on

(01:08):
the divisional futures today and I got four bets that
I really like. One is one of my favorite bets
on the board. So we'll do some of this leading
up to the season, but I do want to hammer
on some future bets as we kind of work our
way into week one and today we will do some
divisional winners. So I love to gamble. I saw a

(01:31):
story today that talked about love to gamble, I mean
betting on yourself. This guy will dive into it. This
guy turned down a lot of money from Zuckerberg to
run his AI operation. That was just just an incredible
eye opener. It's like Jesus, this is insane. But before
we dive into any football and Sean Paige, you know,
I gotta tell you about my friends, my partners in
the official ticketing app of this podcast. I'm not a

(01:54):
big fomo guy. I'm really not, but I saw something
this weekend that gave me fomo more. Wallen is doing
a little stadium tour sell it out left and right.
He was in San Francisco this well, actually San Jose
playing Levi's Friday Night. He walked out with Barry Bonds
and Steve Young and the place went nuts. You know,
I think Barry sixty one and Steve sixty three, they

(02:16):
look fantastic. I don't know. I will die to look
like they do in their sixties. But then then Saturday,
I was like, God, that's pretty cool. He walked out
with George Kittle, who's slamming beers, and Trent Williams. So
if you want to go see Morgan Wallen, he's on
his big tour this offseason or I guess this summer.
It's not. Some people are in season if you're a
baseball player, But if you want to go check that out.

(02:38):
You can search by concert venue, you can search by artists.
It does not get any easier. Obviously, football is right
around the corner. If you want to go to a
college game, if you want to go to a pro game,
there are some incredible early season college matchups. And if
you want to if your team's playing in one of
those games, you want to go to the game, search
by the stadium, search by the team, just take the
guests work out of buying tickets. With game time down

(02:58):
the Game Time app, create an account and use the
code John for twenty dollars off your first purchase. Terms
apply again. Create an account and redeem the code John
for twenty dollars off now in the Game Time app
today last minute take as lowest price guaranteed. You know
It's funny when you when you have a young son
on the way, you start thinking about life a little
bit differently. You start thinking like what am I going

(03:18):
to do to raise this child the right way? And
you start thinking of all these different angles of like
how am I going to instill confidence? How am I
going to give this young man the belief in himself
to go take on the world, to go follow and
chase your dreams, Because chasing your dreams and doing something
big in life take some confidence. Like it's hard to

(03:40):
do things in life when you are young, and I'm
talking in your teens, in your twenties, hell in your thirties,
without older people accomplish people, people that you look up
to that believe in you. That is a very very
powerful thing. I know that just speaking from my own experience,
I've been very lucky to have people believe in me

(04:02):
throughout my life, starting with my parents, leading into my
professional career. Sitting here right now, to have Colin Coward,
who is I would say, as big of a champion
for myself and you know, a guy that has you know,
been behind me and led the way that I couldn't
pay like I can't even quantify what that has meant

(04:25):
to me personally, professionally, and I'm sure many people listening
right no matter what industry you're in, people that kind
of show you the way that have done it, that
have accomplished things that you want to accomplish, is a
powerful thing because confidence as a young person can come
and go, and it's very very easy to lose. It's
the older you get, the more experiences you have, the

(04:45):
more things you've seen. It was harder to really rattle
a thirty eight year old Peyton Manning, a forty one
year old Tom Brady, like Jeff Bezos, Phil Knight, some
of these guys, they've seen some shit. So even a
quote unquote bad business like pretty easy to kind of
shrug your shoulders, dust yourself off, and come back swinging.
Obviously for those guys a lot of cash, but you

(05:07):
know what I mean, And when you're twenty three, twenty five,
twenty eight, like, your life experiences, even if you've seen
some shit, are nowhere near what a lot of people
that are older than you. When Sean Payton is, you know,
one of the more accomplished coaches in the NFL. He's
won a Super Bowl, he is widely considered one of
the best offensive minds of his generation. And let's face it,

(05:29):
he's kind of a no nonsense, no bullshit guy. Now
he's a big talker, big bravado, kind of cocky, but
I don't think he just throws out things if he
does not believe him. And he had some comments today
that made me go, whoa one. Just he's clearly a
big believer in his team. He thinks they are going
to be really good. Last year they won ten games.

(05:50):
This year, they obviously have higher expectations and definitely starts
with him and he said that I've coached six teams
that I thought could win the Super Bowl, to the
championship games, some to the playoffs. This is my seventh
team that I think has that. So he believes in
his career that this Denver Bronco team is as good

(06:11):
as some of those Saints teams obviously won won a
Super Bowl, he has countless others that got back to
conference championship games and had a team that was just
peppering playoff bursts on a yearly basis throughout the twenty tens.
So he knows what a really good team looks like.
But you can't be a really good team. I don't
care how good your defense is, and let's face the
Denver's defense is awesome. I don't care how good your

(06:33):
offensive line is. Their offensive line is really good. Their
skill positions. I think they feel a lot better about
their skill group this year than they did last year,
especially a running back. But you can't do it without
a quarterback. And I think sometimes in the NFL, like
we've seen a lot of story, especially now that a
lot of these player podcasts, and you know, older players
have voices and guys talk about their experiences, and guys

(06:55):
that have had really, really good careers, they say early on,
like I don't know if that offensive coordinator really loved me.
You know, I got drafted here, but the defensive scheme
did not fit my skill set. And then the position
coach turned on me. He didn't think I was any good.
It was just weird vibes. It wasn't until I got
to coach X. It wasn't until I got to organization

(07:16):
Y that I thought, Okay, these guys believe in me.
I believe in myself, and we're off to the races
and I can thrive. Some people are lucky enough to
go to a place, and that place and that coach
are all in on that guy. We've the best example
in recent I would say NFL history would be Patrick
Mahomes and Andy Reid. Patrick Mahomes couldn't have, you know,

(07:39):
written a script to get him to a place better
than the Chiefs. And Andy Reid's belief in him, the
organization's belief in him, and it's been perfect, and they've
had borderline unprecedented success for like six years, right at least,
you know, non Patriots. But a lot of guys, you know,
go to places where it's like, ah, the GM wanted me,
the coach didn't, or the coach wanted me, but the

(08:00):
organization is not a big believer. The owner is kind
of on the fence. Happens all the nime. And here's
the thing, Sean Payton. Next year, Drew Brees is Hall
of Fame eligible. I got a news flash. He's going
to walk right into the Hall of Fame. He is
going to be a first ballot Hall of Famer. So
Sean Payton's got a pretty good idea what a really
good quarterback looks like. And Sean Payton said this to

(08:22):
Charles Robinson of Yahoo that I went damn. He doesn't
like this guy. He freaking loves him. This is Sean
Payton on bow Knicks. He's going to be one of
the top four or five quarterbacks in the NFL in
the next two years. That's what we're seeing right now.
He doesn't take sacks. He's got an exceptional arm. He

(08:43):
threw the longest ball of the season last year at
sixty seven are yards against Cincinnati. He can run, he
can throw it in funny body angles. Sean Payton's all
in on this guy. He told you last year. I
think there's a decent chance that will never know because
it's easy to do the exercise when you draft tenth
or fifteenth or twentieth to go, we would have taken

(09:04):
this guy number one. He was our favorite player in
the draft. That gets said a lot, and it's easy
to say. It's easy to justify. We love this guy.
He's one of our favorite players. But if I put
the Denver Broncos last year at number one, I'm not
saying it's a lock that bo Nicks goes number one,
but I think there's a decent chance that Sean Payton,
who gives zero Fox And I also think it's easier

(09:26):
the older you get is accomplished as you are. And
let's face it, financially it helps. Like he's got a
lot of money in the bank right now. He's not
worried about perception on the outside because we saw a
couple of years ago he couldn't stand Russell Wilson and
it was easy for him to turn on him because
that wasn't his guy. He definitely didn't sign him. And
one thing that you see right there, and I heard

(09:48):
Diana Russini say this, she knows Sean really well. He
hates when guys hates it takes sex. Like that's not
a pet peeve with him. That's like a deal breaker.
He's out on you. We all know people that like,
if you do something, do cross them, whether it's personally,
whether it's our friend, whether it's someone we work with,
Like you're done, you're dead to them, right And some
people it's like, God, just take a deep breath. They're

(10:09):
not that bad, Like give them another chance. But some
people we all know these people. I'm not necessarily like this,
but I know some people that are like this. I've
definitely worked around some people that are like this. They
just won't give you another chance, and it was clear
early on in that season Russell Wilson was dead to
Sean Payton, and he was lucky the owner had a
lot of money, didn't care and let him do whatever
you want, and he punted. But now he's all in
on this kid. And listen, this guy like for a

(10:32):
long college career, saw some stuff and he's got some
scars and you know, just some He's gone through a
lot of adversity. Like he's got a unique background and
track record of adversity for a young player. I would
say the same thing for Michael PENNOCKX. They're your typical
Like Caleb Williams basically showed up to college. Everyone was

(10:55):
on their knees saying, do you want to blow where
you want a handy? And then for the next three
years he got unl limited money. No one could stop
talking about him, and it's been a little hard for
him and he got Ben Johnson now saying like, yeah,
this a lot going on here. He just said yesterday
our practice was so sloppy. I expect more at this
point in time in camp. Ben Johnson a couple of

(11:16):
weeks ago said, I think like there are three or
four days in the camp. There really isn't a ton
of carryover from what Caleb was asked to do from
a play call standpoint or anything of that nature before.
I mean, he's always been very comfortable as a shotgun quarterback,
going back to college and even last year, he's very
comfortable in the two minutes. He's very comfortable with tempo plays,

(11:37):
and so now we're asking him to be a little
more structured in terms of the play call. Sometimes there's
multiple calls, you know, there's shifts, there's motions, there's more
going on mentally than probably there's ever been for him.
And so at this point this thing will start slowing
down and he's going to be able to catch up

(11:57):
and his physical ability will take him over from there.
But right now, because mentally it is what it is,
he's playing a little bit slower, and obviously there are
a ton of clips with Caleb just being completely overwhelmed,
whether it's in team drills or inaccurate. I don't know
if Caleb's going to be a star as of right now.
I would bet against it. But I do know the

(12:18):
power of confidence, and I know the power of belief.
And just because you get pick number one once you
go through the season in which he did, and now
you get the opposite of this coach coming in who's like,
I know my shit works. Even if I got to
change my offense a little bit to try to bring
out some of your strengths that are different from Jared Goff,
my offense is predicated getting rid of the football, fast,

(12:39):
reading the defense, and getting rid of the rock. I
think there are some parallels with Ben Johnson's success in
Detroit and the way Sean Payton likes to run his offense.
Even if I'm going to be open minded and make
some changes, bo Nix is a lot different player than
Drew Brees. You can use some running attribute attributes of
Bo into your playbook you wouldn't have with with with

(13:02):
Drew Brees, just like you can with Caleb Williams that
you couldn't have with Jared Goff. But there are some
non negotiables. There are some fucking deal breakers, and that's
holding onto the ball, taking sacks and ruining the flow
of the offense. You have to play within the play call.
It's one thing Russell Wilson could never really do. The
difference is for like four or five years with Russell Wilson.

(13:23):
He was one of the most incredible playmakers in the
history of the NFL, and then as athleticism kind of dipped.
He clearly didn't want to take hits and he wanted
to dominate from within the pocket. He couldn't do it,
and all these offensive coordinators are turn on the guy.
So I think when you look at John Payton, it's
easy to have confidence in believe a lot of gms
and coaches do when they make the draft pick. But

(13:44):
you eventually then got a play right and become a
good player, and for them to believe in you, I
have to see it. I'll never forget like the Brock
Purty experience where I knew, like Trey Lance was done
because the star players didn't believe in him, Trent Williams, Deebo, Samuel,
Fred Warren, Er, George Kittle. Yet when Brock came in,

(14:04):
all those guys, all their chips were in the middle
of the table. Was like, I'm telling you, guys have
no c You guys don't understand how good this guy is.
They were the ones saying it. Oftentimes coaches will say
it because clearly like they need to instill this confidence.
But when you hear it from the players, when you
hear it, when you hear it from the team, especially
a team full of like accomplished guys, like they're not

(14:25):
bullshitting with you. You know. It's the thing with Justin
Jefferson about JJ McCarthy's like, yeah, he's got some work
to do, which of course he does, has some work
to do, but like sometimes work to do doesn't ever
turn into a good player. And I listen, I told it.
I said this to Colin yesterday because in the history
of the league, you know, if you have four first

(14:46):
round quarterbacks or five first round quarterbacks, there's never been six.
We know the percentages of first round players that hit,
it's around fifty percent. And when it comes to quarterbacks,
obviously there was an awful year in twenty twenty one
where they all flopped except Trevor Lawrence, and that's still
a work in progress. He's just a highly paid guy.
But you know, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Justin Fields, Mac Jones,

(15:09):
they've all been on countless team since that is more
of an outlier from a negative standpoint, but typically, like
not all these guys are going to the Pro Bowl,
and Jayden Daniels is gonna be good Like c J.
Stroud had a down year. We all know he's good,
you know, Jayden Daniels, even if he doesn't have like
an all Pro year, I think he's gonna be a
good player. Like he's not. It's not a whiff, Like

(15:29):
he's going to be a good player in the NFL
for a while. Bo Nicks this, this is real, like
it's not. Now. How good is he Sean Payton top
four or five quarterback in the league. I don't know,
but I know he's gonna be good. Why because his
head coach where offense is his baby, on a team
with a loaded, bugging defense and now clearly like a winning,
high level culture. Like it's gonna work. I would say,

(15:51):
Mike vrabel Drake may like kind of betting on that. Again.
Do I think he's gonna be a top seven quarterback.
I wouldn't go that far, but I think he's gonna
be a solid player in the NFL. Some of the
other guys are gonna JJ McCarthy, Caleb Williams, Michael Pennix.
I like Michael Pennix the most out of the next
three guys. Like I love Michael pennis in college, but
like I just bet against Atlanta. You know, I know

(16:12):
we got Drake London toss and Rahee Morris in practice
to the ground when he's trying to jam at the
line of scrimmage. But like fifty percent hit, Like if
Jaden and Bow are hits, you got to pick one
of the next four guys. And I don't know, gets
a little iffy quick. But Sean Payton's belief, his confidence,
he can't even fake it. Where Ben Johnson and listen,

(16:34):
he's a new coach. You come in and the pressure
Like sometimes in practice, there are certain things that happen
in training camp that would mean nothing to me. You
could tell me Travis Kelcey dropped every pass he had
twelve targets in practice during group and team You couldn't
even write. If you wrote that as a headline, I'd

(16:55):
be like, who cares? Joe Burrow threw five picks in practice.
Who gives a shit? Right? But there are stuff going
on in practice, like when Ben Johnson is talking about
it and these videos come out, you're like Jesus, And
it's the opposite with Bo Nicks in Denver. It also
shows you and listen in fairness to Caleb, and who

(17:17):
knows whether he would have been good or you know,
some star regardless where he went. But it does matter
where you go who's coaching you. It's like remember those
quotes in that book app excerpt about Caleb and his
dad who wanted to go to Kevin o'condall. They wanted
to go to an offensive infrastructure and a guy that
knew what he was doing and said, they got Eberflus
And now they got this guy that you know. I

(17:39):
think hoping this works out, but if it doesn't, he'll pivot,
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Speaker 1 (19:23):
I did want to do some some gambling. We haven't
talked much about this upcoming season in terms of odds.
Obviously we'll talk about Week one and definitely the college
football Week one. I've already looked at that slate. I'm
pretty excited about three or four of the games. But
I thought some future stuff, whether it's you know, Rookie
of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year, MVP over unders,

(19:45):
what we'll get into. But today I was looking at Uh,
this is why I love to gamble. I mean, I
saw a story today that just excited me. We'll get
into that after we do this, but it's like, I
love gambling so much, and I did this last year,
and I talked out of the Chargers, and of course
they made the playoffs. You get them four to one. Hew,
the Broncos are like eight to one to make the playoffs.

(20:06):
So you can get some pretty tasty odds in August
on teams if you like them, either to make the
playoffs or to win the division. And one team that
I think is a lock. Like sometimes you don't get
good odds, like for twenty years the Patriots, you are
getting good odds. The Chiefs play in the toughest division
in football, and they're the only team out of the

(20:29):
Ravens Bills that have plus odds, but still it's like
the Chiefs win it every year. Their odds are plus
one fifty right now. You know, the Ravens I think
were like minus two hundred and the Bills who have
won it like six straight years? Now are you got
to bet like three hundred and thirty dollars to win
one hundred? So it's like, yeah, I'm not betting on those.
I do think the Houston Texans, who are clearly the

(20:50):
best team in that division, who have won this division
two years in a row with CJ and Demico as
head coaching quarterback, they have a chance right there with
Denver to have one of, if not the best defense
in the NFL. You would think that offensively, they were
clearly out of whack last year. The offensive line was terrible,

(21:12):
the play calling was awful. That they can flip it
around a little bit and just have more cohesion on
offense and just have a better EBB and flow to
their play calling, because as the season went on, you're
watching like what is Bobby Slowick doing, and what he
was doing was getting ready to get fired, and that's
what happened. But I think the Houston Texans at plus
one to ten, Like there is a few locks, right,

(21:35):
especially in the AFC, Like the Chiefs. Let's face it,
I mean it got a little harder last year even
though they won fifteen games. They're gonna have a year
and they might go on a fifteen year run, right,
assuming Andy's healthy and can coach that they could have
another six seven years of winning at a high level.
One of those years they might not win the division.
Happened to the Patriots the year Tom Brady got hurt.
They still won eleven games. They lost the division. One year.

(21:57):
You could win twelve and a team in your division
win thirteen. It could happen, right to me. The Ravens like,
it's not crazy. If everything went right for the Bengals
and they had another incredible offensive year, maybe they could
win twelve assuming Trey comes back, everything works right, and
the Steelers the defense is unreal. You win eleven twelve games,
like it's foresee. The Bills like, no chance. They don't

(22:17):
want to. That would be the biggest shocking probably in
the league. Like the Bills feel like a lock to
win the division. I just look at the Houston Texans
and I go the Indianapolis Colts today put out that
it's Anthony Richson or Daniel Jones at quarterback. Anytime you
want to be a playoff team and you have to
put two guys with or in the middle as your

(22:38):
starting quarterback, I'm out now. You guys know where I stand.
I think Daniel Jones is gonna end up being the
starting quarterback, but you know, at the end of the day,
they'll probably both end up playing throughout the year. I
think the Colts, you know, got some issues. The Titans,
who I actually think are going to be better because
defensively it's pretty solid. Their quarterback situation could not have

(22:59):
been in a worse last year. I mean, Will Levis
knew that he was probably about to get cut and
it was like, oh, yeah, cut my shoulder, because who
gets surgery right before training camp. Little weird situation there.
But the Titans are going to be improved just because
I actually think cam Ward is going to be pretty
solid NFL player. But they're not sniffing the division championship,
and the Jags are the Jacks like on paper, they

(23:20):
don't look that terrible. Travis Hunters playing both ways. Can
Liam Cohen resurrect Trevor Lawrence. Defensively, they got some pieces
on the defensive line. But I just don't see how
the Texans don't win this division for a third time.
Plus one ten love that, I would say. Speaking of
the Chiefs, I've been I've bet against them just based

(23:41):
on like, oh, this is the year. You know two
years ago the Ravens were gonna beat him the Niners
in the playoffs. Last year is like, oh, this is
the year the Bills take him down, right, and it
hasn't happened, right. Hell, then I take him in the
Super Bowl and they get blown out one of these years.
I think the Chiefs are gonna be good, but like
you get the Broncos, like, I just think there's value here.

(24:02):
Denver last year went three and three in the division,
and if it wasn't for a block field goal, they
would have beat the Chiefs. They would have gone for
in too. They went six and two at home, which
obviously mile high. The elevation is a advantage for them,
and they have an onlygue defense, as we know, the
coach loves the quarterback. I just think there's value there.

(24:23):
Plus three hundred and I think I'm going to put
a just a chunk of change on there. I'm not
putting them on the same tier as the Houston Texans,
who feel like a lock. But I do think there's
value with the Denver Broncos, who we might look up.
By mid season, they were one of the best teams
in the league. You guys know where I stand when
it comes to the NFC North. I'm taking the Packers

(24:48):
to win this division. I think listen, Minnesota's roster is awesome,
their coaching staff's really good. We know nothing about their quarterback,
and if it turns out he's just average a best,
maybe a little bit below, that can derail the season.
Like if you it impacts the way you call plays,
and then if he's off, it puts so much pressure

(25:09):
on the defense to be perfect. Never forget last year
early in the season, when they came out the gates swinging,
they were up like twenty eight to nothing, twenty eight
to nothing before you'd even blink. I remember two of
their first three games of the season were against the
Texans and the forty nine ers, and they just beat
the shit out of them. And Darnold's making these incredible throws.
He hit this bomb against the Niners. I remember they
killed the Texans, Like, God, how good is this team?

(25:32):
But a huge reason was the quarterback, right, because when
your quarterback's making plays, everything builds off that. Their defense
was humming. Now roster wise, they're better this year than
they were last year, but their quarterback threw thirty five
touchdowns the Bears, I don't even know if the head
coach likes the quarterback. And then the Lions. I'm not
overreacting to the Hall of Fame game. I know Coward

(25:53):
thinks the coordinator changes, right, he judged the third stringers,
but like they do have two pretty big coordinator changes.
And Johnny Morton, you know, for a guy the Dan
Campbell loves and John Gruden loves and Sean Payton loves,
why wasn't this guy more dominant offensive coordinator throughout you know,
the course of his career. This is a guy. It's

(26:15):
not like he's thirty years old. I mean, this is
a guy in his mid fifties. And then defensively, like
losing Aaron Glenn is a real thing. He was easily
one of the best defensive coordinators of the last four
or five years. Like you would put him on a
tier with like a Fangio A sala A, Demico Ryans
Mike McDonald like he was big time and there's just

(26:36):
gonna be a drop off. Most guys at defensive coordinator.
To me, it's easier to find offensive coordinators, right, not
saying that every offensive coordinator is gonna be good. We
see a lot of guys flame out. But if you've
studied long enough with the right people and just the
instincts of calling play, especially if you're a former quarterback
or you know, former skill guy, it's kind of comes
naturally to you. Defensively, it's twofold. One you need the

(26:58):
talent on that side of the ball, and two you
like have to be pretty smart, so you can't. It's
not just it's like you know, on offense, it's very cerebral.
You don't have to be a super tough guy if
you're an offensive coordinator. That's why we've seen some of
these quarterbacks, like Andy Reid's an outlier. He's a former
offensive lineman. Most guys are former quarterbacks, and I would
say quarterbacks aren't like the toughest guy in the room.

(27:20):
But defensively, you kind of got to be a tough motherfucker, right,
But you also got to be really cerebral, Like, yeah,
Vic Fangio when you listen to him, talk like pretty
old school, pretty rough, but he's brilliant and he knows
his defense inside and out. So like, is there gonna
be a drop off on defense? They were winning games
last year on defense with me and you playing linebacker
and dB and defensive line. I don't know if there's

(27:41):
a margin for error losing Aaron Glenn like that. So
I just think there's a lot of question marks in
the division that has a ton of talent. In Green
Bay plus two fifty like I'm taking, and then I
think the best value in the entire league is this
Seattle at five to one. I think sometimes the Rams
are discussed like they're the Eagles or the Chiefs. They

(28:02):
won ten games last year, and listen, they played the
Eagles better than any team in the playoffs. They had
them on the ropes and it felt like they were
driving to win the game. I mean technically they literally were,
and they were hot at the end of the season.
But I think we talk about them like they're a
fourteen to fifteen win team. One currently, their quarterback is

(28:25):
week to week with a back injury and we're talking
three plus weeks now and no end in sight. And
if they got to play Jimmy Garoppolo, if they've been
winning ten games with the thirty seven, thirty six, thirty
eight year old Matt Stafford, they're not winning ten games
with Jimmy Garoppolo. I don't care how much Sean McVay
gasses them. Uth. The forty nine ers, who I still
think are pretty valuable, and they are they favored to

(28:46):
win the division, got a lot of question marks. One,
they just had to cut a kicker today because they
were in a kicking competition, but they needed the roster
spot because they have so many injuries at training camp.
Their team is not as deep as it was in
years past. They had to let a lot of guys go.
They're gonna be very dependent on young rookies. Which listen,

(29:07):
rookies gonna have a good game. Rookies can have a
good month, but most rookies, even guys that go on
to be Hall of Famers, don't have great rookie seasons.
And then the Cardinals, like I know, they're getting a
lot of like underground, They're like this hipster pick right
now is like the Cardinals I'm just not picking a
team with Kyler Murrays or starting quarterback to win the division.

(29:30):
The Seattle Seahawks went ten and seven last year. They
had the same record as the Rams. They were the
best play of Sam Darnold's career when he threw the
game winning touchdown against them in Seattle. From winning eleven
and just winning the division, the thing that jumps out
to me is they went three and six at home.
They were not very good at home. Well, I would say,
like this Seattle team, there's gonna be a lot of

(29:52):
buzz coming into the season. I'd imagine at worst they're
gonna be four and four at home. Honestly, they should
win five or six games at home because of the
schedule this year and the teams that the NFC West plays,
the two South divisions, pretty big advantage. They had an
excellent draft. Sam Darnold, Like, even if he's not the
version that we saw in Minnesota. Guy just chucking touchdowns

(30:16):
to Justin Jefferson. Throw thirty five touchdowns? Why can't he
throw twenty seven? Clint Kubiaks the offensive coordinated. They're gonna
run the Shanahan system. He already knows it. They got
some good pieces on offense. I'm not saying this is
I think the Texans are gonna win the division. I
think the Packers are gonna win the division. I think

(30:36):
Denver there's just value there. I wouldn't bet my life
savings on it. I think this is by far the
best value on the board and worth taking a flyer,
because I think there's just so many question marks. Arizona's
just a yearly question mark. The forty nine ers, I mean,
are they gonna what are they gonna look like by
the time the season comes around from an injury standpoint,

(30:59):
and the rams fucking quarterback can't even practice. And it's
not one of those like, hey, we're just giving him
the reust. His back hurts and he's already old. And
let's face it, for a guy thirty six thirty seven
years old, he's pretty weathered given how many hits he take.
And I love the guy, but if he's gonna be
missing games, like, I'm just not buying into them. With
Jimmy Garoppolo, and speaking of I love gambling, it's one

(31:21):
of the greatest stories I've ever seen because the balls
it would take and the belief in what you're doing
would it's second to none. And I'm a huge believer
in betting on yourself. And you know, your gut and
your instincts in life have to carry you sometimes in
big decisions. I know some of you are very trying

(31:41):
to be very objective and break things down, just try
to quantify everything. I'm a bigging instincts and gut guy,
so I've made decisions before based on gut. I'm not
saying it's always gonna work, but to me, it tends
to lead you in the right way. This AI AI,
I can't even speak artificial intelligence arms race is insane.

(32:05):
I mean, Mark Zuckerberg is paying people, stealing them from
other companies and paying them like their their Luca or
Yannis or Steph Curry. And he's paying people hundreds of
millions of dollars, people in their late twenties early mid thirties,
like their NBA players. He's giving them two hundred and
fifty million dollar contracts. I saw this tweet today that
just blew my mind that Zuckerberg offered this guy to

(32:28):
be the head CEO of this crew that he's built
one point five billion dollars. He's trying to build the
AI dream team. And he wanted this guy to be
his lead dog. He offered Andrew Tullock, a next meta
and top tier talent, a four year contract that included salary,
equity bonuses that totaled around one point five billion dollars.

(32:53):
You know what Andrew said. He said no because he
owned three point seventy five percent of his own AI
startup thinking machines. I mean, that's got like, you know,
some sci fi movie written all over it. But evaluations
keep pumping. The thought is that it's a potential three
plus billion dollar pay day for this guy. Here's the thing,

(33:16):
Zucker's Zuckerberg's offer getting the know he needs this to survive,
this Andrew character until his own company IPOs, and there's
no guarantee. And listen, everyone in the finance world thinks
this AI bubble is going to go on for a while.
And it's not even a bubble. It's a real thing.
I've known people in the alcohol industry that I had
a buddy telling me a story, Like last year, I

(33:38):
was actually at my wedding about some of these craft
breweries that you know, years ago, within the last five, ten,
fifteen years, were the apple of everyone's eye. And these
big you know, Budweiser, Corps, Light or Miller Cores like
the big dogs would pay fifty eighty one hundred and
two hundred million dollars for these little guys and they

(33:58):
would sell out and they'd become really rich and it
was awesome. And then there was a line when beer
wasn't selling at the same rate and craft breweries weren't
valued it the same way. And some people that turned
down valuations of seventy five million dollars thinking that within
a year they would get one hundred and eighty million dollars.
A year came and they were told, we don't want

(34:19):
to buy your business, and your business is now trending
in the wrong way, and you got either going out
of business written all over you or just kind of
surviving on a yearly basis written all over you. So listen,
I commend this cat takes balls, it takes stones to
turn down. A lot of human beings, over the course
of their life, will say no when it comes to money.

(34:42):
It's like, hey, this new job, I'm making one hundred
and twenty five K. You're offering me one hundred and
sixty K. But I got to move. I don't want
to do it. Athletes do it, people do it all
the time, but one point five billion dollars to say
no on the fact that your thing is gonna hit
you talk about belief. You think Sean Payton believes in

(35:03):
bo Nick's this guy believes. I mean, he couldn't believe
anymore because to turn down that type money for your contract,
it's not like tying my entire life in for four years.
It even fails. I'm filthy rich. So you gotta commend
him for I guess having stones in a belief in
his own company. Okay, let's do a little mail bag

(35:39):
at John Middlecoff. At John middlecof is the Instagram fire
in those dms? Get your questions answer here on the show.
Here's the thing. We're gonna go rapid fire because I
got a lot trying to get to everyone. I know
I'm still missing a lot, but I'm really trying. I
really am. So if I've left you out, either re
hit me back up or keep firing in there. Question
for the bag. If you were starting to franchise today,

(36:01):
who are the guys you would take over? CJ. The
point of this is the future, So considerations keeping guys
like Stafford out next five to seven years. Well, I
don't think the top four changes, right, Mahomes, Allen, Burrow,
and Lamar are just their locks to be the first

(36:21):
four guys taken. Then I think you start having conversations.
I think last year I had him as my fifth quarterback.
I had him above Herbert. You know, Jared Goff was
coming off a really really good year. You know Dak,
Jalen was. I just had him above all those guys,
and then Jayden Daniels appeared. So I would say, right now,
again we have more CJ. Stroud information, I would take Jayden,

(36:46):
but I think then you could have the conversation of
him for the next five to seven years in the
mix of all these guys like Eagles fans like you
taking Jalen Hurts like, yeah, I've seen Jalen play excellent
super Bowl? Like can he throw from with in the
pocket for the next five years? I mean that's a
question mark. It's why he gets argued over all the time.
What's brock perty going to look like with all these randos?

(37:07):
How's Jared Goff gonna do without his offensive coordinator Dak?
What the hell is going on there? Right? So I
think he's somewhere between six and seven would come off
the board. I think he's a lock to be a
top ten off the board, and I think he's probably
either six or seven, depending on who you talk to.

(37:30):
Did you see Jerry Jones said to the media that
he offered Micah Parsons almost two hundred mil guaranteed. There's
no way that's the case. Right question for the pot?
Jerry I said this to Colin yesterday. I really think
he's starting to lose it. I mean, hearing him talk,
I think he's rambling on listen. Jerry's always had the
gift to gab. He's a salesman. He's an elite salesman
in his heyday. I think's hey day's over. If he

(37:52):
was an athlete, he would get cut right. If he
was an artist, he would not be putting out any
number one hits. If he was a chef restaurant would
probably be going under. It's like you watch him talking
like cherry. How is this guy still so active here
in front of the mic. Loves it which listen to
each his own. It's some guys don't like it, some

(38:14):
guys like it. He's definitely not turn it off. In
his mid eighties. But I think everything coming out of
his mouth, it's getting really bad. There's no disputing it.
Me hired Brian Schottenheimer to be his head coach, saw
Coward learn ran about his backward advisor. Big Vikes fans,
You and Colin are my guys. But all I hear
is the JJ McCarthy reservations. While I understand some, I

(38:36):
think everyone forgets that the organization said no to Aaron bleeping'
Rogers who wanted Minnesota and said he would play for
five to ten million dollars. Doesn't that speak volumes to
the belief they have in JJ. We have a ready
now Super Bowl contending team. I agree, Yet the Vikes
brass says we're rolling with JJ over Rogers. I feel

(38:57):
like that's forgotten, not discussed enough. Wouldn't that manipulate the
thoughts and reservations about him from you guys the media? Well,
I think a lot of people look at Rogers last
year like it's over. I don't want to be in
business with this circus, right he If it starts going weird,
he goes on McAfee and starts turning on me. He's

(39:20):
not playing nearly at the same level. I know he
can still spin it, but he doesn't move as well.
And the conversation wasn't just to sign Aaron Rodgers, because
I think week one, Aaron Rodgers is a better player
in JJ McCarthy. Even if JJ McCarthy's good, right, he's
just veteran. He's just gonna be better immediately the circus
he brings in and the attention also the what it

(39:44):
does to JJ, It's like this could derail any chance
he's ever good, right, I mean it's a huge risk.
There are variables signing Rogers that are different than you know,
signing other quarterbacks, right, So I think it's more than
just a belief in JJ. It's just did we want
to be in the Aaron Rodgers business. Think of the

(40:06):
last couple quarterbacks, Kirk Cousins and Sam Darnold, pretty low
key quarterback operation, right, even JJ is good or bad,
Like he's kind of a low key, high level cat.
Not that Aaron's not, I mean all kumbay al right
now in Pittsburgh, but he's probably the most famous guy

(40:26):
now that Brady's retired in the NFL. Right, I guess
Travis with Taylor Swift would be near the Top and mahomes.
But so the hooplaw of is fame, it's hard to
be really famous. Like what also, if Aaron shot, can
you bench him in week six for JJ? So all
that stuff is discussed when they said no to him.
So I think it's more than just they think JJ

(40:48):
McCarthy's better than Aaron, because I don't think it's just
that simple. But I hear what you're saying, and listen,
here's a simple reality when it comes to JJ McCarthy
more specifically than any other quarterback. We have no clue,
absolutely none. How it's gonna go none. Like I think
I got a pretty good idea how Kayleb Williams plays.
I've been watching Kayleb play for like three straight years.

(41:10):
He's kind of always played the same, so I'll be
a little stuned if he plays differently. Like I think
I have a pretty good idea what I'm gonna get, right,
Like I kind of know what I'm gonna get with
Bo Nicks, I'd say I don't quite know. With Drake
May and Josh McDaniels, I have to see with that offense.
I know what Michael Pennix looks like. I've seen him
sling that that pill for years at Washington. I got

(41:31):
no clue what JAG's gonna look like passing offense. Well,
he's never played in a passing offense. How's that gonna work?
What expectations do you have for DK and Pittsburgh. They
made the trade and gave him a ton of money,
but he really hasn't matched come close to his best season,
which was twenty twenty with the aging Rogers new system.
Will he have a good year do you expect? This
is a good question because you can probably get him

(41:53):
a little bit as a fantasy sleeper. I think the
last couple of years for him. Now he's been a
little banged up, But I think the first three years.
I don't know if no one had more touchdowns in
NFL history, but he's right near the top. His first

(42:13):
three year production from a touchdown standpoint was seven, ten
to twelve. So he had twenty nine touchdowns through his
first three seasons and did not miss a game nineteen
twenty and twenty one. Twenty twenty two, he had a
good year. He had ninety catches, six touchdowns, but one
thousand yards. Last year was weird. Now he got banged up,

(42:36):
sixty six catches, five touchdowns. I think they would take
the twenty three season where he was a full time
you know, he didn't miss a game, well, I guess
they were. Were they playing seventeen games in twenty three?
I think they were, so maybe he missed one game.
He had sixty six catches and eight touchdowns and averaged
almost seventeen yards to catch. Would they sign up for

(42:57):
that right now? Sixteen games, sixty six catches, seventeen yards
of catching eight touchdowns. I think they would. I think
in a perfect world they probably like the catches to
be closer to eighty. But I think seventeen yards of
catching eight touchdowns and playing basically every game, I think
that's what they're shooting for because last year he averaged

(43:19):
less than two yards. You know, twenty three was his
highest yards per catch, Like you want him to be
an explosive down the field guy. And if you think
about Rogers' best wide receivers over the course of his career,
you know, Jordi Davante, they were not players like DK Metcalf.

(43:40):
When has he ever played you know, Greg Jennings, Donald Driver,
Garrett Wilson, He's never really had I mean DK doesn't
really exist. He could have the history of the league,
but it'll be interesting to see how it works. But
I think they would sign up right now for eight
nine touchdowns. Given Trayvon Diggs growing off the field issues

(44:02):
like his recent injury from messing around, the five hundred
k fine for not using the Cowboys trainer, and him
inserting himself into the Micah Parson negotiations, what do you
think the Cowboys could realistically get in return for him? Well,
he signed a huge contract right what year we now,
twenty five? Was that two years ago? And then he
tore his ACLU. I haven't broke down the film because

(44:25):
they were so bad last year. But I don't think
you're getting a lot for him, given that he makes
a lot of money. Everything that happened, I think, yeah,
I don't know. My guess is not it's not worth
trading him unless he becomes such a big headache. I
also think chiming in on Micah Parsons like, I don't

(44:46):
think the front office cares that they want your teammates
to back up your teammates. So like Ceedee lamb Dak,
those guys supported him. I don't think that's that weird.
I think the other stuff with them being mad at
him for the leadership stuff, not using the facility in
the offseason when they talk to him about leadership like that.
That's on the Cowboys, like you know this guy, you

(45:07):
pay this guy, and then did you change? Was he
always like this before? I think the Cowboys have just
become such a zoo. Yeah, des Bryant arguing with it's
not the Cowboys fault necessarily, but Des Bryan inserts himself
with the Jerry Jones comments, and then Nicki Minaj starts
talking about people beating other people's moms. It's like, what

(45:27):
the fuck is going on here? Why has Joe Gibbs
never brought up in the discussion of all time greatest coaches?
He won three Super Bowls, which is tied for third
all time, with three different starting quarterbacks, none of which
were Hall of famers. All the other coaches in this
conversation had Hall of Fame quarterbacks. The goat coach is
certainly up for debate. This is one of those like

(45:49):
if you wanted to argue, like how good me and
Joe Green was or Kenny Stabler or Bill Russell or
Jerry West. A little before my time, it's hard for
me to feel great, Like how great of a player
was Howie Long. I don't know. I never saw him play.
My Howie Long experience was the John Travolta. I forget

(46:10):
the movie what it was called, but it was really good.
It was in like the Desert and Grand Canyon. It's
a thriller in the action movie in the mid nineties.
But that's like, God, how he's a pretty good looking guy.
What the hell's that movie called? Off? To think of
it later, my point is arguing over Joe Gibbs like
I'd never watched them coach, so it's hard for me
to go Joe Gibbs versus Chuck Nol versus I don't know.

(46:35):
Clearly pretty impressive guy, I mean, went to run NASCAR,
has very very successful teams. But you're right, he never
gets talked about. I can't answer that question. As a
Giants fan, I can't help but admire this stability of
the Green Bay Packers organization and the solid job that
Lafloora has done. But do you think the Packers once

(46:57):
again don't make a deep playoff run Lafleur might be
in danger of gaining the Kyle Shanahan reputation, creative play
caller who can't get over the line. Well, every coach
until they win a Super Bowl is a guy that
can't get it done and when it matters most. I mean,
no one holds that more right now than Kyle. Right.
Marty Schottenheimer held it for a long time, then Andy

(47:19):
Reid held it and went from Marty to Andy to
now Kyle. Now the difference. You know, Marty passed and
never won a Super Bowl. Andy didn't just get over
the hump. He became a freaking legend. You know. I
would bet now, does it happen San Francisco? If Kyle's
gonna coach twenty plus more years, he's going to win
a Super Bowl? Right. Lafleur still is like, has a

(47:44):
little while to go before you get to that point.
I would say, but this is a big year for
la Floor. It really is. Kevin O'Connell has often talked
about as one of the top OC's and Brian Flores
gets similar praise on the defensive side. But I don't
really see it. O'Connell zhen two in the playoffs and
lost last year's Week eighteen game against the Lions. With

(48:06):
a division on the line. The Vikings were favored in
all three of those games. His play calling is extremely
pass heavy. His reluctance to run the ball has felt
like it's a major hole. On the other side, flores
defense looks incredible against the average and bad teams, but
the moment they face the top offense with a good quarterback,

(48:28):
they often get lit up. Just look at how many
points they've given up to teams like the Packers, Lions
and Rams, or any of the top tier teams the
last two years. I don't see any performances that stand
out as impressive defensively, So why are they still Why
do they still get so much credit as one of
the best coaching duos in the NFL. Well two years

(48:50):
ago they punked the Niners when the Niners went to
the Super Bowl on Monday Night Football on defense, and
brock Perty said after, like, I didn't even know what
I was looking at. I think Brian Flores is pretty good.
I think he's widely considered. I'd say, as we sit
here right now, Vic Fangio gets the universal praise as
the best non head coach defensive coordinator. Mike McDonald, if

(49:14):
he was in that situation, would be right there too, right,
but he's a head coach. Defensive coordinator, but elite defensive minds.
I think Flores is easily a top three or four
defensive coordinator in the league. Robert salis probably up there too.
I think Dennis Allen's pretty good too. I mean, there
are some excellent defensive coordinators, and Flores's elite. I'm with
you on Kevin O'Connell. He's an impressive guy. He looks
the part former quarterback, well spoken, I mean, like drawn

(49:39):
up in a lab to be a head coach. But
I've seen him in the biggest moments not be able
to pivot because he's not like the Shanahan tree. He
never coached under Kyle, but he kind of because of McVeigh.
Mcveigh's a lot different than Laflora, than Kyle, than even
Mike McDaniel. Those guys love running the ball. Sean McVeigh

(50:00):
wants to pass. Kevin O'Connell is like Sean. The difference
is Sean will pivot in game if he has to.
Shawn's a great adjuster. I can't remember the Giants game
three years ago when they lost to fucking Daniel Jones
at home that's a horrendous loss. Last year, you know,
to lose the Lions game and to lose the uh

(50:24):
who they play? Oh, the Rams game in Arizona. Your
offensive line is decimated with injuries, your quarterback early on
looks a little rattled. The easiest way to settle the
game down. I understand, when you're down thirty five to seven,
you're not gonna call runs. But early on the game
you can settle the game down. But former quarterback likes
to chuck it and then everyone's like, oh, it's Sam

(50:44):
Darnold's the idiot. No one was critical of Kevin O'Connell
ast year. I felt like I was the only guy
that talks for a living that even brought it up. Besides,
if you're like a local guy or a fan like
every national, guys like Kevin O'Connell can do no wrong. Well,
I don't know, I canny win a playoff game first,
Yet he's compared to like Kyle and McVeigh. Matt Lafleur
went on the road and won a playoff game. Wake

(51:06):
me up. When Kevin O'Connell wins a playoff game he's
been favored in. Like you said, both the playoff games
three years ago, he lost to a nine to eight
Giants team that is one of the least talented teams
to win a playoff game in a recent memory. Because
even if you wanted to say that about the Washington
Commanders last year, their quarterback was like having one of
the great years a rookie's ever had. Daniel Jones threw

(51:29):
fifteen touchdowns. So I'm with you again. I like him.
He's a good coach, but he gets talked about like
he's second coming of Bill Walsh. A question for the bag,
what was your reaction when you became a scout for
the Eagles. Could you believe that you were technically in
the NFL when you got fired? Did you try to

(51:50):
get another scouting gig or would you if a team called.
I would say I was pretty thrilled. I mean I
had paid for my flight to interview. Typically, like once
you get in the league and you're interviewing with other people,
they fly you out, they put you up. In twenty ten,
when I was a GA and I got hired in Philly,

(52:10):
I paid for my flight out there. I paid for
my hotel, which was in the hood and was basically
like a prostitution ring being run out of there. But
you know, I had to pay for it, and I'm,
you know, twenty four, twenty five years old. I don't
have any money, so I get the cheapest flight possible,
I get the cheapest hotel room possible, and I got
the job on the spot. And it was pretty exciting.

(52:31):
It was pretty cool. Not gonna lie, but you know,
getting offered twenty two grand no health insurance. I was
doing like cartwheels down the street. I went out, had
some cocktails and had dinner somewhere in South Philly. I
don't know, it's cool. It was exciting time in a
young man's life. It was yeah, it was really cool.

(52:51):
It was awesome for anyone that people at Fresno State
did help me get there my family. It was cool
when I got fired. I did try, but I just
didn't know that many people in the NFL, you know now,
like looking back, I got friends all over the place.
I know way more people sitting in my chair now
than I did then. I wouldn't. I mean, I'm not
never this is what I do for a living. But

(53:13):
I kind of tried. I mean I called around, but
didn't work out at the time. I mean it worked
out a big picture for me. You start looking in
the mirror, you go, I graduated college with you know,
an ag business kind of degree. Then I get a
master's degree in like sports management or something. I got

(53:36):
multiple degrees. I've only worked in football at Fresno State
and in the NFL, and then you get fired. Even
if I wanted to pivot, I'm like, how can I
walk into a job if I wanted just like a
more normal job, like to sell insurance or go work
at Facebook, or i know, go work at Bank of America.
It's like, what have you been doing. It's like, yeah,

(53:56):
I've been evaluating the practice squad of the Green Bay
Packers in the Arizona car Like, uh, do you know
anything about interest rates? No? But I really have a
good feel for the backup guard situation for the New
England Patriots. You know. It's like, Oh, you want to
talk about there's a couple of young sophomores at the
University of Washington. I think we should keep an eye
on to hire here at the Bank. No, uh, linebacker

(54:19):
and tight end. I think they got a hot, bright future.
He started thinking, You're like, my skills and what I've learned,
and I feel pretty confident in those skills. And if
I would have got if someone would have hired a
young John when he was down and out back in
the league, I would have been equipped to handle whatever role.
I'd worked in house, I'd worked on the road. But

(54:42):
if I were gone and tried to get a normal
job outside of football, I didn't have any skills. I remember,
you know, you're just kind of desperate because you're like
twenty eight, twenty nine years old. You don't really know
what to do at the time. Actually, the first couple
of months and I started calling, I had met Joe

(55:05):
Lacob's son, Kirk, who's now is like the assistant GM
of the Warriors, and I remember reaching out to him.
I'm like, hey, do you guys have any opportunities. I'm
like and looking back, like, what would I have done
with the Warriors now? Granted, if they would have hired me,
I would have been part of the dynasty. Maybe I
would have been one of the most unique sporting careers,
worked in the NBA, worked in the NFL. He was like, no,
we don't really have anything. I don't even know what

(55:26):
I would have brought to the table. Hey, you want
to talk to usc football. But then I just got
a job in radio and kind of never looked back.
Sometimes you realize, like, let's say it all ended tomorrow,
like that there's podcasts and sports talk just stopped, and
I couldn't do it starting tomorrow August fifth, I could
not do anything under that umbrella. What would I do?

(55:50):
I mean, what if I wanted to create a business,
if I wanted to go interview places like what are
my skills? Talk football? Like talk I can sell? I mean,
I am essentially a salesman, but like everything I've done
has mainly been related to football, or I could break
down like Cam Young's win just to day on the

(56:12):
PGA Tour set a record made nineteen point one million
dollars before his first win. Tommy Fleetwood will break that
record if he ever wins, but he might not. But
these are type conversations that I would have in like
you know, I don't know. Some real estate firm delete

(56:36):
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(56:59):
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(57:42):
sixty four thousand. That's John to sixty four thousand, sixty
four zero zero zero. Message and data rates apply when
scouting offensive or defensive lineman. Does having a belly or
you're a super jacked play a factor in college or

(58:02):
in the NFL? Have you ever seen linemen that maybe
didn't have the best physique, but we're super strong, or
linemen that were really jacked but easy to move. I
think you're way less judgmental if the guy is a
good player, what his body type is. If you have
a belly, like you know, a noticeable you're kind of flabby,

(58:24):
and you're not a good player or an average player,
then you get discriminated against big time. But if you're
just good your body type. You know, some guys naturally
are a little more cut up, some guys are bigger,
some guys just fluctuate, you know. I'd imagine I'm trying
to think like every guy's body type is a little

(58:48):
bit different, but you know, you some people need that
extra weight to help them anchor. I think if you're
a really good player and a good athlete, having a
quote unquote belly doesn't matter es Actually for an offensive lineman.
I think sometimes with the defensive lineman, it goes, hey,
this guy could lose a little weight, Especially if I
got a belly and you're playing at three thirty. It's like, hey,

(59:08):
if you if you cut fifteen pounds, you would be
that much more explosive. I saw Jordan Davis, the Eagles
defensive lineman, has I think drop like twenty five pounds.
It looks good. So I think in people one knock
on him as he'd get out of shape and it
would hurt his ability to play late in the games.

(59:30):
So if you have a quote unquote belly and you're
good and you're in shape, like it's you just got
to carry that weight to slow guys down. I can't
think of You know, some guys get big. You know,
Trent can get big. I mean last year I thought
when he showed up after holding out, he looked like
he was three hundred and eighty pounds, and now he

(59:52):
might play at three hundred and forty pounds. But like him,
like Jason Peters, some of these guys are just such
physical freaks. They can be three hundred and thirty three
hundred and forty pounds and not look that fat. And
some guys like Lane Johnson's a good example. Joe Staley
was like this, they look way more in shape when
they're playing really well than quote unquote fat. But I

(01:00:13):
bet you know what's Jason Kelsey retire now two forty
regrets on the wedding and the baby love the show.
I wanted to ask two part question do you watch
NFL Red Zone at all during an NFL season? Second question,
what do you think of ESPN buying Red Zone. All
my friends watch Red Zone and we love not having commercials.

(01:00:36):
Just curious if you think Red Zone will change and
have more commercials with ESPN as the owner. Well, typically
my setup in this office. We actually might be moving
offices here, might be building one on the side of
my house and then looking to have one just outside
of the house as the family expands, so we can

(01:00:58):
have a little separation between home and work. But I
have to have multiple TVs and I typically throw up
all the games right, especially now with YouTube TV, I
can I have a sixty inch TV and like a
fifty forty inch TV and I can have like six
seven games going. Now, if we get to a number

(01:01:20):
where I have an extra box, I will put on
Red Zone. But I don't watch Red Zone like I
would if I wasn't doing this. So I try to
have all the actual games going on, so I can,
you know, especially the main ones, but they I have
the sound whatever the best or most important game is
going on, So I never really have the Red Zone

(01:01:41):
sound on. Now, aren't there two separate like direct TV
or the package their Red Zone and whatever was on
cables Red Zone? So isn't there Scott Hansen, and there's
Andrew Ceciliano. I feel like I've watched Scott Hansen forever
at least, you know, had him on the box. So yeah,
I mean, I'm not not against red zone at all.

(01:02:03):
I just for what I do. I can't focus on
it as much what I use it for because it's
usually a little delayed that if there's a touchdown or
a big play. If I'm watching like six games at
one time, and like the Colts Texans game and I
missed it, then I look over and a minute later
Scott Hansen will throw to Jonathan Taylor going seventy yards. Right,

(01:02:27):
I would not be as worried in the short term.
Here's the thing. ESPN bought the NFL Network, which the
NFL wanted out of business. Right, the NFL is making
so much money from football, they don't want in on
the media business. It's not lucrative enough for them to
waste their time fucking with That to me is as
simple as it gets when it comes to why they're

(01:02:47):
getting away from it. It wasn't financially worth it for
them to be in the media business. But two, they
get ownership in ESPN. So if you want to be
in business with me, the NFL, even if you purchase
something from me, like CBS, ABC, NBC when they purchase
the league's product, play the games, the NFL still tells

(01:03:12):
them what to do. Now, they can't totally tell you
how to run your business. But if Roger Goodell and
the powers to be like Scott Hanson running the red zone,
he will continue to run the red zone. So my
guess is Scott Hansen is at least safe for a
little bit. There are some funny memes and stuff going around,
like how ESPN will have Kendrick Perkins or Steven A

(01:03:35):
on there. I wouldn't be that worried at least for
a year or two. But yeah, I mean you never
say never when stuff like this happens. I do think
you're safe for the at least the foreseeable future, because again,
the NFL has equity in ESPN. Now, even though ESPN
bought their properties, it's kind of a weird business transaction

(01:03:56):
that still needs like government approval, which I'm sure get
taken care of. What are your favorite your three top
TV series? I would say number one of all times
as Sopranos, and I would say one B is the Wire.
I would say those are easily at the top. You

(01:04:16):
know a lot of people I feel not even hipster,
but I think it's it's like you feel like you're smart.
If you say mad Men, I'm pro John Hamm and
I watched the majority of the show. I thought it
was a little overrated. I would say Breaking Bad again good.

(01:04:42):
I think some people put it at the near the
top of the mountain. It was solid. I think Sopranos
and The Wire are just in a completely different level
for me. And there's nothing that I've watched and I've
watched I watched a lot of TV. Not proud to
say I should be reading more, but there's not a
major television show over the last twenty plus years a

(01:05:05):
series that I have not watched. I'm watching a show
right now called high Town on Netflix. We're on season two.
It's really good. It's I'm not putting it with the
Sopranos or The Wire or anything, but it's it's it's
it's pretty freaking good. There's another show I know what

(01:05:31):
was a show called This show became pretty toxic because
Kevin Spacey got accused of some pretty hainous shit, but
one of Netflix's first big hits, House of Cards with
Kevin Spacey. They tried to last season when he got
canceled and he wasn't in it. The show was a joke,

(01:05:52):
but I'd say the first three or four seasons of
House of Cards, we're pretty special. I was always a
sucker to Dexter. Maybe it wouldn't age as well. Californication
is another sleeper. I love that show Back in the
day with David Dukeveny question for the bag. With all
the NFL contract talk about Parsons talking about Jerry try

(01:06:15):
to do a backdoor deal with that as agent, it
got me thinking, do you think players in the past
have gotten paid a little something extra under the table
to avoid hurting the cap that is one hundred percent?
Your question has been talked about four decades and the
answer is yes. Think about all the different industries we

(01:06:38):
all work in and listen with with technology it is.
I couldn't walk into the Ferrari dealership and hand them
two hundred and fifty thousand dollars cash in a bag
for a Ferrari right, You're not allowed to do that.
I couldn't knock on the door of a house and say, hey,
I'll offer you two point five million dollars. I have

(01:06:58):
it into briefcase like, this isn't the seventies or the eighties.
So there are levels in which you have to do stuff.
But one thing that I think definitely happens is the
team helps players get marketing deals, especially with their sponsors.
So if you play for team whoever, and you are

(01:07:21):
a key player, and I give you my bank who
is a big sponsor in my airline, and they pay
you money right now, you do stuff for them, But
I facilitate that deal. I mean people always said Tom
Brady the his what was it called TB twelve, His

(01:07:42):
office was in the Craft building across the street from JILT.
I mean that to me is nothing. What's five thousand
dollars rent a month? But it's like who knows what robbercraft?
Guess what it's called business. I'd do it too, but
there's a difference of like can I buy the guy
a ten million dollar mansion in my community? Like I

(01:08:02):
don't think you can do stuff like that, But I
think stock tips business ventures, you know, I know the
forty nine ers had a lot of guys invest into
the soccer team internationally. Now it's above board, like you
can just be an investor in stuff. But yeah, I

(01:08:25):
mean I think I think a lot of shady stuff
has happened over the years in all sports. I mean,
the Warriors have been funneling those guys deals forever. Question
for you, I realy saw a clip of you and
Colin talking about top ten quarterbacks of all time, and
notice Breeze and Rogers getting left out for guys like
Bradshawn Aikman. I don't think you saw my list because

(01:08:49):
I do not include Trey Aikman and Terry Bradshaw in
my top ten. Aaron Rodgers are better. Trey Aikman's more
accomplished clearly than Aaron Rodgers. Aaron better player. I can't
even speak on Terry Bradshaw, he played before it was alive,
but I would have Aaron Rodgers. You know, Drew Brees

(01:09:10):
is unique. I mean, he's a first bout Hall of Famer,
but he's a dumb quarterback. So these guys that play
outside in inclement weather like like to meet, Rodgers is
on a different tier than Drew Brees. Both some of
the great quarterbacks of all time, But to me, Rogers
is close to the top five. Then Drew Brees is

(01:09:31):
sneaking into the top ten. But I don't put Treykman
in the top ten quarterback, No shade in him. I
just big Commanders fan and season take it over. I
think the take that Jayden will have a sophomore slump
because CJ. Stroud struggled at times last year after losing
all three of the starting receivers as lazy analysis. I
also think it's disrespectable as CJ. I don't think it's

(01:09:52):
about lazy analysis or anything. I think you just you
gotta be very careful that putting together elite careers, like
good players have a down year and early on in
your career, the more information these defensive coordinators have on you,
the more difficult it gets. I'm with you. I would
be stunned if we look at the Commanders and their

(01:10:16):
offense feels like the Houston Texans did last year. But
Terry McLaurin is a question mark, and I would say
the more and more Cliff Kingsbury has coached typically as
the years have gone on, it happened in Arizona now
obviously Jade and I like more and Kyler, but like
has he adapted, has he changed. You know, some of

(01:10:36):
the stuffs out of Jayden's control. Now, when you throw,
when you're that good in the pocket, when you throw
that beautiful of a deep ball, when you have that
ability to run. Yeah, I mean, I don't expect to
fall off. But is he more likely to throw twenty
eight touchdowns or fifty touchdowns? Football's heart. We see plenty
of all time quarterbacks finish their careers on different teams,

(01:10:58):
Brady to the Bucks, Peyton to the Broncos. Hypothetically, if
you had to place a bet, which of the top
which of these quarterbacks will end up leaving their current
team first, whether it be because the player or the
organization decision, Who would it be and why? Patrick Mahomes,
Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson. I would say Patrick Mahomes
one percent would not be would be dead last on

(01:11:21):
the list of going to another team. Listen, you never
say never, like you said Peyton and Tom Brady, but
it would have to get really, really ugly. I would
say Lamar just because I think that's a good question.
I don't know, but Josh Allen get hurt too. I'd
probably go one A Lamar, one B Josh and then

(01:11:45):
like at twenty five, Patrick Mahomes, I wouldn't even include
any of those three. I'd include Joe Burrow. I would
say Joe Burrow. I mean, look what Carson Palmer once
upon a nime did I quit? So I would say
Joe Burrow would be the guy over Josh Allen and
Lamar Jackson. And Lamar Jackson won two MVPs and could

(01:12:05):
have won his third last year. Josh Allen just won
the MVP. Those guys aren't going anywhere. It'd be Joe Burrow.
Do you see Roger Goodell pulling in Adam Silver and
forcing a star player to a great team. I say
this because what would Joe Burrow look like with Sean
McVay speaking of Joe Burrow. Uh, you know a lot

(01:12:27):
of people have said John conspiracy conspiracy theorist, like you
saying that Adam Silver forced Luca to the Lakers and
then gave the Mavericks Cooper flag. The difference is the
reason that conspiracy conspiracy theory was somewhat believable is because
markets really matter in the NBA. The NBA Finals with

(01:12:49):
Indiana and Oklahoma City, for like a stretch of their
three games, game two, game three, Game four in Game five,
So really four games did like two million more views
than the Hall of Fame game. But if it had
been Lakers Knicks, they would have done twenty million people watching.
Last year the World Series Dodgers Yankees, what happened huge ratings.

(01:13:13):
Baseball and basketball are very dependent on the markets and
the superstar players. But the superstar players on the big markets.
The NFL is unfaced. You could have Chiefs Cardinals and
one hundred million people are gonna watch. Now, if you
got Cowboys trying to think who's the biggest team in
the AFC, well, I mean technically is a Chief It

(01:13:33):
just doesn't matter. It just does not matter. Cowboys haven't
made the conference championship game in thirty five years, and
it has not matter thirty five years, thirty years. It's
a great question though, when on this saw the other
day you were discussing what defines award adding and you
mentioned mahomes lamar Burrow but left off hurts. By your
definition and what we've seen, he's proven to be just that. Yeah,

(01:13:58):
I would include him. I can't list everybody all the time.
I think a lot of these quarterbacks are really tough.
I think most good quarterbacks are tough guys. It's hard
to be a good quarterback and not be a tough guy.
And Jalen is I mean, you can't be that good
at the toush push and be that strong and not
be a tough SOB. So yes, I would say Jalen

(01:14:21):
Hurts is a war daddy. But most good quarterbacks are
gonna be, you know, war daddies, right, especially running quarterbacks
Lamar Cam Newton, Michael Vick, Jalen Hurts, I listen, Kyler's
not a US Jayden Daniels. I think these guys, it's

(01:14:42):
hard to be a good quarterback, especially if running is
part of your repertoire, and not be pretty dynamic with
your physical toughness and mental toughness. So I would say yes,
Jalen Hurts would fall into the category of war daddy.
The volume