Colin & John Middlekauff are LIVE from the LIV tour event at Bolingbrook Golf Club!
They preview the field at the tournament, highlighting Brooks Koepka, Dustin Johnson, Bryson DeChambeau and more (5:00). They react to Shedeur Sanders making his debut in the preason (8:00) and Colin argues that Phil Mickelson looks to be in the best shape of his career after seeing him in person (12:00), and they discuss the evolution of DeChambeau from heel to hero on the tour (16:00).
Finally, they sit down with Scott O’Neil, the CEO of LIV Golf to discuss the party atmosphere of LIV events, the type of experience LIV tries to create for fans and the pressure of competing with the PGA Tour (32:00).
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume, well, the Colin Coward podcast. We are live
with my buddy John Middlecoff. We usually do these on
Sunday night after the NFL Games, but at the Volume,
we signed a contract with Live Golf, which I've been
(00:21):
a supporter of from day one, and I called Middlecoff
and I said, get out here to Chicago.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
So last night we got dehydrated.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
I'll leave it at that, and today we're at bowling
Brook Country Club out in the burbs in Chicago. It's
a beautiful course and we are at the.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Live Golf event.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
I had friends and acquaintances who had said, you got
to go to one of these tournaments, like it's a
real experience. And the first thing that jumps out to
you because we literally were you know, Brooks Kopka's coming up,
shaking our hand, coming over, the access to Dustin Johnson,
Sergio Garcia, Phil Mickelson.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
It's just different. It's a real thing. You know.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Kepka sure knows that you're a supporter because he came
right over.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
He doesn't smile. Offen had big smile.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
This is I've been to a lot of golf events,
US opens, PGA Tour events.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
This the vibe here.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
The energy is unlike this is more like a I
don't know, an SEC football game or something.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, I mean there's a huge crowd here today, So
it is a big crowd. And I think my takeaway is,
and I've always kind of believed this, you got to
get out of the studio. You gotta go to events,
Like I tell people, you know, I remember I used
to work with a guy, Mark Shapiro, and I said,
we were talking one time at Wimbledon actually, and I said,
(01:37):
my mom was British. I always loved Wimbledon, right, I
always watched it. But he'd never been to an SEC game,
and he was very really really young, And I say,
you just got to go.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
You gotta go to Baton Rouge.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
If you don't know what it's like during a football game,
you can smell the bourbon and when you come to
one of these events, I mean, it just jumps out
to you. First of all, they've take golf rich history.
There was always going to be pushback anything new in golf.
We've seen it in baseball. We all knew the game
had to get faster, right, We knew base and so
it took people pushback on the pitch clock well, the
(02:08):
minute they did it, the sports attendants and ratings went out.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
I get why there was pushback would live I get it.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
But what they've done is basically found obvious stuff that
golf can and probably should tweak to get a younger audience,
and it works.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
It definitely works in person.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
I mean it's a vibe here for sure, but they
you know one thing they got going for him right now.
I mentioning this on the driving range Steph Curry, what
he did for basketball the interest of young people. You
can go to any arena now when Steph's playing. I
don't care the Lakers, You're gonna see Steph Curry, Jerseys.
Bryson's kind of become that he is just a young
hip YouTube's been huge for him. People want to see him.
(02:48):
The other thing is we're on the first tea the leaderboard.
In this tournament. Brooks Kepkas won five majors. I mean
he knocked off people like Tiger Woods who tried to
beat him. Phil Mickelson's won six majors. One of the
most legendary players ever have some star power. I was
telling you Terrell Hatton, who is going to be one
of the superstars on the Ryder Cup for the international
team for years to come. Like he goes Rory Rum
(03:09):
and he's right there. So I mean they got I
mean when they built this thing. You know, golf's very
dependent like like basketball on the Stars, yes, you know.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Outside of maybe Augusta.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yeah, and they got and they got a lot of
Sergio Garcia won the Masters. You know, Patrick Reid won
the Masters. So they got a lot of accomplished golfers
out of here, for sure.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
You know, it's funny.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
It was interesting because I would say about four or
five years ago, I was a huge Dustin Johnson fan
and he's one of those and I saw him in
person today.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I mean he was three feet from us.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Look like an NFL quarterback.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
He's big, I mean he is Dustin's he's a big
he's a professional athlete. But his game is fascinating because
there was there was a time, I mean such a
mental game. There were about four years ago with Dustin Johnson.
I thought he was going to take over the sport.
And there are still times I watch him on the
Live Tour and I'm like, he's really a dynamic, power,
(04:00):
full player. But for some reason, and that's I think
that's the beauty of golf and the burden of it. Like,
what's where is Dustin Johnson?
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Now?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Well, I mean kind.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Of I would stay on the definitely on the back
nine of his career, probably on whole sixteen seventeen eighteen.
I mean, he had a run where he won a
PJ Tour event. I think in like twelve straight years.
I think, looking back, he's one of those guys. You know,
Brooks got the five majors, Phil's got six majors. You
look back on DJ's career, I bet he's kicking himself.
He probably should have had six or seven and he's
probably gonna end up with two now.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
He did win the Masters, which definitely changed his life.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
I mean, there was that one remember when Fox bought
the US Open and DJ three putted and Jordan Speed
ended up winning a Chambers Bay You're home stomping round.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
So I think he's one of.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Those careers where you just look back and I mean
it's been incredible. He's one of the most accomplished golfers
of his era, and he's one of the most talented
because you see him.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
I think with golf, I.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Guess football is a little like this guy's come in
different shapes and sizes, but Dustin stands out amongst everybody,
even next to Phil.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
He trumps them, you know, by three four inches.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I mean I watched six golfers, he looked six to six.
I mean he's massive.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Of all the six golfers, I saw that Te Doff today, Mickelson, Brooks, Kepka,
Sergio had Matton, there was no question Dustin sounded different.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, I mean he is.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
He is just a big He's a professional athlete.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
So but I think that, you know what. The other
thing that struck.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Me today is that when I you get access to
the driving range, like really close, and we got a
little closer than the fans, maybe five feet. But when
I turned around and I looked at the audience, much
younger audience than you would see.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
And there's always been young golf fans.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
But if you watch the gallery at the US Open
or Augusta, it's forty five fifty five, there's a lot
of twenty three twenty eight year old kids out here.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
I mean you come out here to hang out as
a party. That's most golf events. I live by one
in Phoenix. They're not usually parties. So I mean this
is this is my first time in Chicago. I've always
heard it's an event, party kind of atmosphere. You can
tell people gravitate toward fun stuff here, festivals, music's big
year events, and this is this is an event. I mean,
(06:15):
it's one of those that you got to be here
to kind of feel it, you know. I mean that
music blasts on whole one.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
That was crazy.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Yeah, so they had paratroopers come in. They got music
blasting on the first hole. And I also think, I mean,
I've only been in Chicago full time now for about
four months, but when you have a city with a
harsh winter, when the sun comes.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Out, people they're got in their car. They'll drive two out.
They don't care.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
That's why music. That's why they just had something here
the air day in town.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
I don't even know. It was a Lalla what was
the Lalla Palouza? That's things still real, right.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
It had a massive begones as I was a kid,
they had a massive crowd here and it's like, yeah,
because for four months you can't get out of the house.
So when you have this event, I mean, this is
a big crowd.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
I've been hearing about the Chicago summers for it's still hot.
You know, people act like it's like seventy degrees, you know.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
I mean it's it's warm. I mean we got lucky
today though, cool place.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Yeah we win, we got great.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
It's not good to the golfers. Man looks terrible.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Feel's already all over the place.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Yeah no, the I think wait, listen, we have to
at least address for a minute Shador Sanders. Yeah, okay,
it's the podcast, right. We got a couple of topics here.
So before he got drafted, he debuted last night. My
take was always big enough, accurate enough, moves well enough.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
When I watched last night, he checked those boxes.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
I don't know if he's going to be good pre snap,
is he mature enough. But when I watched them last night,
that was an event. By the way, speaking of an
event at the liv golf that was an event last night.
When I watched him, he was kind of what he
was in college. He's accurate, he moves well enough. There's
so many other boxes to check to be a franchise quarterback.
But my take was he delivered. He was what he
(07:55):
was in college.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
I think the one thing with preseason, because hard to
put it on context, Like, I don't know if you're
going up against the next Tran Williams or the next
guy that's gonna be selling insurance a month, right, so
you gotta be careful with that. You can judge instincts,
and you can just judge this guy can play football. Now,
the game plan the regular season is a different animal
than the preseason. But Shador has always just kind of
(08:17):
been an instinctive. He's never met his dad athletically, right,
He's not the most explosive athlete. He doesn't have the
greatest arm, but he kind of just makes him plays. Now,
you know, are they gonna throw him at Week one?
They're not gonna do that. But this was always like
once he started dropping in the draft, someone took him
if he looked good. It wasna be kinda it's gonna
be a circus. I mean it's you thought it was big. Now,
can you imagine Cleveland radio this week? They're not gonna
(08:40):
want to see one snap from Flacco. No one's gonna
want to see Flacco take us. Yeah, no one's gonna
want to see Kenny Fick. It's a very t bow feel,
but he's much better than t bow, way better. I
mean he's a quarterback, right TBA. This guy's a court
now can he be a good quarterback? And this is
where if I'm the owner, listen, I'll give you a
month because as the head coach, you can't just walk
into Miles Garrett. If Miles goes, I don't think quite
ready yet and not play the veteran guy. But if
(09:02):
we're one in three, one and four, I'm making the
switch quicker than some teams do. Remember like when Lamar
came in for Flaco, it was like the end of October.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
I'm not waiting that long. Yeah, you want to give
this guy to me?
Speaker 3 (09:14):
If I'm Haslam, I'm already like at minimum, let's get
like ten games. We got two first round picks. If
we're bad anyway, we're gonna be drafted the quarterback. Let's
get a big sample size. Who knows, maybe we don't
keep them, we can flip them.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Yeah, absolutely So, John and I'll be doing our stuff tomorrow.
Obviously on Sunday night, a lot of NFL stuff, little
teaser there. So as I watched Phil Mickelson, John and
I went to the first tea and they got the paratroopers,
and you know, there's you know, fireworks.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Michelson. First of all, he was in really good shape.
It looks good, and.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
He was the most popular golfer here. He was really popular.
But it was interesting because when I watched Phil.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
He's probably my generation's Arnold Palmer or something doing.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
I think so.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Phil now is not yet Greg Norman, but it kind
of feels like he's a businessman has filed. I mean
by the way he is the attraction. I like he
is really He and Bryson are and golf has always
had a great legacy. It loves its old stars, right.
But when I watched Phil today, He's in the best
shape I've ever seen, and I'm kind of wondering. I'm thinking,
because you're next to me, I'm kind of thinking.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Where are we with Phil? Do we expect him to win?
Do we? Or is it just like.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
It's like when musical acts their last eight years would
go to Vegas and they couldn't quite hit the notes,
but you wanted to go watch Barry Manilo Like, no,
he's not. I'm not saying that, but there is a
part of me with Phillip's like I don't really care
how he plays.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
I just want to see Phil Mickelson. Well, he's fifty five.
He's probably never gonna win another major. I mean he
won one a couple of years ago a Kiwa. That
was one of the coolest things. I think he's one
of the oldest players to ever win a major. I
forget the exact staty might he was fifty years old
and fifty five to still be this good. You could
make the argument that he's the greatest fifty five year.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Old golfer in the history of the sport.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
You know, relative, is he gonna beat Bryson and kept
going with great?
Speaker 1 (11:00):
No?
Speaker 3 (11:01):
The Masters is the one place because they play there
every year and he's exempt for life being a champion.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
I think two years.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Ago I think he finished second. So now is he
gonna win the event? I wouldn't bet. Is he gonna
take out Scotti, Scheffler or Bryson at there on? Probably not,
But that is one event where he can get hot.
I think he could top ten there again in his
late fifties. That is an incredib book. Remember what a
big deal was in the mid eighties when Jack won
at forty six years old.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yeah, so for people, are people are in better shape now?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
For sure?
Speaker 3 (11:27):
They eat better, right, Philip's great. I mean he looks
way better than he did when he was my age.
I mean, I a thirties early forties.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
No, so is Phil's about six two. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
So I looked at him today and I'm I'm six
to one and I'm a buck ninety and Phil's bigger
than I am. And I looked at him. I'm like,
he's six two two oh eight. I mean Phil's big,
I mean a hips big. And I looked at him,
I'm like, Phil's him good. And he had a tight
gulf shirt. I'm like, that's the best shape Phil's ever
been in.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
You know, bones, Phil's old cat. Yeah, I heard him
say this once.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
He's like, you know, when you look at Phil relative
a lot of these guys, you know, kept his battle
knee injuries. Bryson had a back when he got Bighill's
never had an injury. When you look at his swing,
because I don't know if it's his flexibility, his swing
kind of looks identical as it did twenty years ago.
He swings, and you know, power is a big part
of his game, kind of a unique a lot of
these guys. The nature of the swing, it's not a
normal human moment baseball players left handers. Yeah, it looks better.
(12:22):
It looks fantastic, you know so I yeah, I mean
he's never been injured, still playing, you know, relatively. Again,
you you top five at the Masters in your fifties,
like that's it probably happened, I don't know, less than
two times in the history of the game.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah, it's it's really fun here. It's really an event.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
I mean they first of all, it's incredibly well staffed.
You know how when you have different leagues sometimes you're like,
well it's a shoe string budget.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
That's not the case. I don't think budget's the issue.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
It is not the issue. No, they have and I'm
sure they have this everywhere, but I.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Think the key and they know what they're doing is
going to cities did or party fun places and it's
gonna work. You know. I think they had an event
earlier in Arizona and Tucson. I don't know if it
was last year or this year. They've been they've gone
to Australia. When they go to places that are fun,
I mean the atmosphere will be there won't be anything
like that.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Yeah, I mean I didn't know because where I live
in Chicago. This is about an hour ten drive. So
I was thinking, no, look at a decent crowd, but
you got to get in your car and commit to it,
and then you have to commit coming home. And I
was like, we had traffic, like real traffic. And I
got here and I looked at the first hole, I'm like,
oh shit, this is a real crowd, Like this is
a real this is something and I think the one
(13:35):
thing and this is not because first of all, watching
Rory when the Masters is about I said it on
the air, that was like four and a half hours
the best.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
TV of my life.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Like I watching Tiger when he got old with them,
there's nothing like the traditional British Open.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
I mean, I love filming the PGA a couple of
years ago.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
You can really like two things at the same time.
It's like I was never when I first defended Live,
my take it away was, Guys, if I say your
favorite part of golf, you're either going to say it's
the Masters, which isn't run by the PGA.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
That's not a.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Shot at THEAPGA was a charity that didn't run the
US Open, the British Augusta. So my take is always
I've always been loyal to the golfer. I wanted to
see Phil and Bryson and Kopka. I wanted to see
the golfer today. But I also understood the pushback by
traditionalists because outside of baseball, it's probably the most tradition
(14:27):
rich sport.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
But when you watch today, one of the things that
jumps out to me.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
As I grew up in a small town, we didn't
have country clubs. I've always felt like an outsider in golf,
even though I've gotten the bug in the last three years.
When you're here, it kind of feels like they took
that veneer and they pulled it off. They said, just
get close to the golfers. And I think that's something
that golf for younger generations.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
I think it works.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
I think one thing that I'm big on is on
Sunday is everyone having the same rotation of whole. And
I didn't know, I don't know if they've been doing this,
but staggering the.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
First team with multiple groups, so those six guys instead
of one.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
You know, the winner might finish on whole three because
he started on whole you know two this you know
they're going multiple groups off one that means they're all
going to finish on eighteen. Like I like seeing the
guys come down fifteen sixteen, seventeen, but Phil kept all
those guys went.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Off whole one.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
So I like the way that they do that, the
stagger tea on, you know, with the leaders, multiple groups.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
The.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
It's just it was really interesting today when Brooks Kepka
came over to us.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
He likes you, Colin, I seemit a supporter. No, I's
a sports guy. I was a huge Keopka guy.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Did not like the Shamba for the first two years
and the thirteen egg omelets and then Bryce and I
thought got very likable. He kind of a little more human,
a little more humble.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
Well, Brooks embrace them, h Brooks embrace them their buddies.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Yeah, and so it was like okay, and then Brooks
I think struggled with an injury. But Brooks and it
just it just it doesn't matter what business it is.
It could be politics, it can be golf. Deshambo is
an aggressive guy and it's just sort of his personality,
whereas Brooks is. But I think, if I had to guess,
(16:16):
he's probably super private, Yes, really private. So like you
get all types like, you know, if you're a politician,
you have to be somewhat social. Aaron Rodgers is not
the same personality as Tom Brady. Remember Jake Plumber. I'd
love Jake Plumbers, you loved him. Jake and Aaron are
a little iconic classic. They're not corporate guys. They're just
(16:41):
not comfortable in that space. That's okay. Not everybody's a
Brady feels like a corporation. Manning feels like he leans
into the corporation. So I always thought Bryson and Brooks
may have been big, strong, great look in alphas.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
They're just different guys.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Well, they're kind of opposite. You know, Brooks early on
his career gravitated with DJ. Both feel like, at least
so the public introverted, not giving you a lot.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
Bryson, whod he gravitate toward Phil?
Speaker 3 (17:04):
You know all this who's shaking hands, knows everybody's names,
hanging out with the CEO of all the companies. And
that's kind of Bryson's personality, Bryson's They're unique characters, you know,
DJ and Brooks like I envisioned them on a Sunday
watching football at home. You know who know Bryson's out
measuring the next golf club. Colin Phil what he thinks
about the wind and the scientifical intrinsic force of the
(17:26):
golf ball.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Right, that's what they talk about.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
DJ says, I want to hit a fate.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I hit a fath.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
I think you know it was interesting. I know there
was a book written about Phil. I don't think Phil
liked it at all, by Alan Shipknock, and it was
really fun. It was called Phil and I like Allen
and I you know, I've always been fascinated b Phil.
Phil Michlson's the only person in American sports that I've
never interviewed that I want to And I wouldn't even
talk golf.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
I just talked life.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
But when I read the book, what was interesting was
Phil's never tried to necessarily sell himself as politically correct.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
I thought the.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Book made him remember the movie Gordon Gecko Wall Street.
So when they made that movie, Oliver Stone, he wasn't
trying to make Gordon Gecko popular, but young stockbrokers watched
the movie and when that is cool, I want to
be Gordon Gecko, And Oliver Stone said, yeah, that wasn't
the mission? Is that when Alan Shipnukk writes a book,
(18:20):
You're like, oh, it's very critical, and I was like, yeah,
but I've drank too much and I've done this, and
I thought it kind of humanized him. I looked at
Phil and I was like, I think I like Phil Moore. Now,
when somebody writes a book about you, that's not how
it lands for you. But I think Phil watching how
he was welcome today. I think everybody gets what Phil is.
(18:40):
He's a great you ever use this term? He's a
great hang.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
I played in a golf event in Scott Sale probably
two or three months ago with multiple of his college
teammates and they are still very very close friends with
him today and one of their Football is a big
part of all these guys' lives.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
You know, they like football. I'm with you on Phil.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
One thing that my friends text about with Phil a lot,
it was like, you know that he gambles on.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
Football, So why you know, so does every single human
in my life.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Yeah, you get into trouble in life when you're selling
one thing and you're doing another. You don't people love
John Day and John's like, yeah, I smoke way too much,
and it's like it'd be one thing, if we caught
him smoking on a tour and he's saying, you know,
I'm I don't care politicians do this, You're flawed. Own it, Yeah,
just just own your stuff. So when I look at Phil,
(19:28):
his legacy to me is he's a good hang.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Yeah, I mean I think he's gonna. I mean, he's
you know, if we were doing like quarterbacks. He's easily
one of the top seven eight golfers in the history
of the sport. And he's to me, he's the Peyton
Manning of golf. He just happened to play against Tom Brady.
He just happen to play against Tiger Woods. Right, If
Tiger Woods doesn't exist, what's Phil winning twelve majors?
Speaker 4 (19:47):
You know?
Speaker 3 (19:47):
I mean there was a time Phil didn't win his
first major till he was in his mid thirties.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
Isn't that crazy?
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Well, that's the wild part. And he won the one
at fifties. So I think you could argue his career,
you know, is unique because he won a tournament as
an amateur and he was kind of Tiger Woods before
Tiger Woods, and then five years later Tiger came and
it was just an all time comment.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
I mean, just ask yourself this.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
If I think once Rory won the Masters, because that
was the one we were all rooting for, right like,
all of a sudden, Rory's playing well at Augusta. You're like, oh, Sunday,
I'm sitting in front of a TV. If I told
you there's any golfer in the world and I said
it's two o'clock Eastern on a Sunday and Blank leads Augusta,
(20:26):
I think most sports fans would.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Say, oh, gimme Phil heck yim.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
I mean that's just even though because there are certain golfers,
because golf's history, it's like it's almost like.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Watching old Nolan Ryan.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Nolan Ryan, they still put him on the marquee when
he was like at the end of his career. There
was one Nolan Ryan. And it's not just but you
have seven no hitters. There are certain athletes far have
had this quality. They're just relatable. You just kind of
like some kinetic energy. You just kind of feel like
when they're in the room, they changed the temperature.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
Well, I think it was two like during the Tiger era.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Obviously Tiger was the best player I've ever seen, but
he didn't talk to anybody had no friends, wouldn't even
look at Marko.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Lemeira and him were kind of okay, and then they
broke up.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Phil was the one guy that would kind of play
the Arnold Palmer role, that would talk with the fans.
That was a big personality. So they kind of yin
and yanged each other in terms of personalities. He was
pretty important for Tiger in terms of the balancing out.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
I mean those two were in such a different stratosphere.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Remember when they used to do like highest paid athlete
and it'd be Tiger than Phil, then like the Kobe's
and all the other guys. Yes, and then Lebron came
along and they were always third behind those two guys.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
Yeah, I mean they changed.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
They took golf to a popularity level and a corporate
level I would say in the two thousands that they
had never even dreamed of with guys like Arnold Palmer.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Right, Yeah, you know, if you go back to and
you'd have to google this, but if you go back
to nineteen sixty before the PGA was created, I could
be wrong on this. Weren't Arnie and Jack because it
was called something differently and they didn't quite think they
were getting paid enough.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Yeah, they were about to break it down. They were
about try jack Jack led the charge.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah, so I think you know Phil, Greg Norman complaining
four years you told me a story when you thought
there was a breaking point with Phil, And that's why
I've always defended lived with what was the break in?
Speaker 3 (22:20):
It was Fox They bought the US Open and I
think they were paying well over one hundred million dollars
for a ten year deal a tournament, right, so ten
tournaments a billion dollars. And I remember Hunter Mayhon, who
was very close with Phil, was like one issue a
lot of players, but Phil was the most outspoken about it.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
In baseball, basketball, football, there's a revenue sharing.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Well I get forty nine, you get fifty one, I
get forty nine.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
Eight, you get you know whatever it split.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Basically, even the purseon went from like twelve million to
sixteen million, and Phil's like, what.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
The hell is going on here? Where is the money going?
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Right?
Speaker 4 (22:52):
It didn't make sense?
Speaker 3 (22:53):
And that was and obviously, you know live coming around
the PGA money, the money's exploded since this TIS usually
creates that. But like all these golfers have benefited, but
it was never like that that's right. You know, Tiger,
all these guys Phil too. When they were making sixty
eighty million dollars a year, they're only making three or
four in the course.
Speaker 4 (23:12):
It was all coming off the course.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Yeah, so that's where Scotti Schffler now made sixty five million.
Joaquem Neeman winning all these tournaments has made like thirty
five million dollars.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
These guys now are paid like NBA NFL boy.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
And should be. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
I mean you and I were talking when we were
driving out of the tournament today. You got to drive yourself.
If you get sick, you don't get It's like being
a lawyer. If you're not working, you're not getting paid
well your own business.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
So you're paying your coach, you're paying your caddy, you're
paying yourself, you're paying the git. You know, it's like
you are paying for the hotel when the Chiefs are
playing the Cardinals today. Do you know what, Patrick Mahomes
doesn't have to worry about the hotel. Travis Kelsey, they
take care of all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
So that's that's not golf.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
But that's what makes this sport kind of way different
than all the other team sports in the sense that
you're kind of on your own right.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
You have to worry about yourself. You have to.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
You're just an independent contractor.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
But when you're Brooks, when you're Bryson, when you're Scottie Rory,
these guys are such.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Big businesses now.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
I mean, what's the difference between Phil's business for twenty
years and Steph Curry in terms of the revenue flowing in?
Speaker 4 (24:13):
So you need the right people around you.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Think about what a common ship Bryson is right now,
I mean, just a business rocket ship.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
John Middlecoff the herd.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
We are a bowling brook liv Tour Live tour has
been fantastic. The guy that runs the whole thing. Every
golfer owes him a debt of gratitude. Isn't that nice?
I'm not sure if that's true, but it really is
a good intro. All right, round one here it lives
in Chicago to live Golf CEO. He succeeded Greg Norman,
(24:42):
Scott O'Neil with a storied and interesting Nick Sixer's history
and more. Next, all right, Scott O'Neil has been kind
enough to stop by. He sort of escorted John and
I for an hour. You succeeded Greg Norman in twenty
(25:03):
twenty five, and I think both John and I today
are takeaway on this because I had friends that come.
Foxes obviously has a relationship, it's an event, it's a
good time, and that's not a criticism of anything. But
when you're new, you get those little freebies that you're
(25:23):
not beholden the tradition and you know you've see You
ran the Sixers, you ran Madison Square Garden Network. When
you succeeded Greg, your takeaway was is it an intentional
act to be different or do you just kind of
watch your sport and watch the crowd and listen to
the golfers on all these innovations.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Right, that's interesting position.
Speaker 5 (25:45):
I can tell you that having been in sports for
thirty years in the NFL and the NBA and NHL,
I've seen leagues change. We talked about earlier. Major League
Baseball puts a runner on second next year, has.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
A pitch clock, by the way. Two things that I
absolutely love.
Speaker 5 (25:59):
Where Philly's season ticket holders we go to a lot
of baseball games.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
I love it.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
The two line pass that just grinded the NHL to
a halt or overtime that could seem last forever. Now
that three on three overtime in NHL genius and with golf,
we're not splitting Adams and we're not saving lives.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
But before we're bringing fans into this game.
Speaker 5 (26:16):
So if there are little things we can do to
bring new people to this game and live our mission.
And by the way, the PGA Tour does a wonderful
job in the US. All we're saying is we want
to take these stars and take them to the world
because the game is growing in Australia, it's growing in Korea,
it's growing in China, and we have this opportunity to
grow the game. And so if we have guys stars
(26:36):
like Bryson D. Chambeau and John Rahm and Brooks Kepka
and Phil Michelson. I heard you talking about Phil Nicholson,
all Sergio Garcia, all these stars, if they're willing to
get on a plane and fly to Korea, let's go.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Let's go grow this game. Did they ever complain about
the music?
Speaker 5 (26:50):
No, you know what's so strange that exists before you
got here. Yeah, they love the music on the range.
A lot of math headphones and they're listening to music.
First off, But what's really strange to me, is there
they found the music. But if somebody says something on
their back, that's right, they'll step back and look over
at them, you know, which which always to me is strange.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
But they like the consistency of the music.
Speaker 5 (27:10):
They like the PA and on the first team you
might remember their walk up songs just.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Like basical they choose, they choose them. Yeah, and it
always is funny.
Speaker 5 (27:17):
It's the songs they choose always are very fitts.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
Justin Joneson came out to Wonder Wall by ways.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
These they're superstitious too.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
They have a bad.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Round the song's gone, imagine.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
So how often do the golfers, Because you have a
relationship with all.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Of them very very much.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
And and this is again I'm not taking shots. James jam
wan a Hand had some contentious relationships and my take
was always outside of Augusta, I don't watch golf for
the course, I watch it for the guys.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Your relationships different.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Like the golfers are coming over to you, do they complain,
do they make suggestions?
Speaker 2 (27:52):
You tell me what you go through?
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Bryson, Phil Sergio, What are the conversations like when they
call you at nine thirty at night.
Speaker 5 (28:00):
Yeah, yeah, no, we're twenty four to seven operation. And
some of those guys like six am calls and some
of them like them at midnight, and I'll take them all.
I cannot get enough of these players. I always think
ambivalence is the worst possible emotion, and whether that be
a fan or a player, guys that are passionate and
have something to say. I've got a lot of time
for We're very active with the players. Now there are
(28:21):
business parts. It's a bit of a different model.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
You know, they.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
Own equity in the teams. You know, it's a very
different model. And so every change we make, every course,
we go to the schedule on how it's set up.
Do you want to play before Major or after Major?
I'm engaging. We're talking about agronomy last night with some
of these players, Like, hey, the Greens are rolling at eleven,
you know, the wins coming in. Should we be watering,
should we not be warning? Should be pressing? I mean,
(28:44):
they are very very much into making this great.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
But guess what this is our third full year.
Speaker 5 (28:51):
Imagine Major League Baseball in year three, Imagine the National
Football League in year three.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
We're year three.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Well, you're friends with Dana White, who I love. You
love UFC as well. So I can remember being in
a bar in the Bay and it wasn't UFC yet who.
By the way, the late John McCain tried to throw
UFC off cable. They were battling for years. You watch
an event now and you're like, man, it's slick. I
can remember when Dana took it over and he wanted
(29:17):
corporate support. It's like, Okay, we can't do eye gouging.
We can't do this. If you go look at over
the course of UFC now it looks all slick. My
wife's not a sports fan, she loves UFC. But the
truth is we live in a very impatient world. Live
golfs in year three, Like, guys, take a deep breath.
It's like, as I'm in the year four of the volume,
(29:39):
there are things we do now we look at we're like,
why were we? Why were we doing this two years ago?
Like the world you're an entrepreneur, it's growing.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
You know what's going through my head?
Speaker 5 (29:48):
This isn't the question you asked, but I'm like, Connor McGregor,
is that our Bryson d chambeau, What did you say?
Do you remember gsp CSP Is that John Ram That's
what's going through my head as you're talking about.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Very similar in UFC never had the you know, there
are more famous players, I would say in lived than
UFC's ever had, of course, at least, I mean esventually
your top five to six guys.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
I'm looking at Odell. I mean he's in now, Chuck.
The Dell's are going too.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
He's a needle mover.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
No you Phil, I asked you, I said, where is
Phil now? And you reminded me he had a top
ten finition Augusta a couple of years ago, two years ago?
Speaker 2 (30:25):
What is you have a close relationship? What is he now?
Is he Entrumpneuver?
Speaker 4 (30:30):
First?
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Is he golfer? Second? I mean he's slimmed down? What
is he?
Speaker 5 (30:33):
I mean, he's an enigma and I don't think there's
going to be another Phil Nicholson. He's fifty four years old,
about turn fifty five. His goal this year was to
get into the top ten of this league with a
bunch of young stars in their prime. Okay, he decided
to remake and change his game to be a little
less wild wild West, a little bit more less hit
in the middle of the fairway. Let's get on in regulation,
(30:55):
and let's let's take this buttter.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
First, because the team format or just his body, no,
I think I think his body's change. He can't do
what these young kids we talked about Tom mckibbon or
Caleb Sarrah or David Pooh. They're coming and hitting the
ball three in the thirty yards off the tee and
he's like, Okay, I know I can't do that, but
I can beat these guys.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
I'm better. I'm that good.
Speaker 5 (31:11):
So that's that's one part of Phil. The second part
of Phil is he's just a competitor. Like these guys.
You look at golfers from the outside before I came
to this business, and I'm like, God, that's it's nice.
These are not gentlemen, Okay, these are guys who are
so fiercely competitive. When they come off the course, they're like,
you know, they have all this testosterone adrenaline roll and
(31:32):
I'm like, I like to see it. I mean, we
do a little corporate thing, a little putting contest. I mean,
DJ was complaining that the reads were different. It's a
court by a bunch of executives putting among the side
of this competition. These guys want to win and want
to fight, and that's the other side of Phil. And
the third piece is think about Phil the learner. Think
about like Phil saw what Bryson was doing on YouTube
(31:52):
and he's like, why can't I do that? So we
partners with Grant Orbath. Now he's got four hundred thousand
followers on YouTube. Phil Mickelson, fifty four year old Phil
Nicholson reimagining himself, reinventing himself. And then he's obviously the
captain and one of our partners and high flyers. So
he's always I see him on the first tee, I'm like, hey, Phil,
good luck, knock him dead, give him hell today and
(32:13):
he wants to talk about the business. Okay, Scott, how
many fans we're going to have here today? When we
go to when you're looking at a market and you
I mean, I'm like, I'm this guy, this guy's for real. Yeah,
So I love. I've been around some of the great
execs in the world. David Stern was a long time
mentor of mine. I worked for him for eight years
and I just remember him being this lifelong learner.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Adam Silver, the current commission in the NBA.
Speaker 5 (32:32):
Always learning, always reaching, always discovering, always figuring out what
do I have to do next?
Speaker 2 (32:37):
That's Phil Nicholson, those duels. His idea was that yours.
Speaker 5 (32:41):
No, you know that that came out of you know,
like we've been studying the YouTube spaces. If you walk
the range and talk to the little young kids, which
I like to do. I always said, who's your favorite player,
Bryson Champo. Really, how'd you discover Bryson YouTube? So I
think once we saw the revolution happening on YouTube, did
you do.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
It when Grant or Fat Perez come out here?
Speaker 2 (32:59):
He is famous?
Speaker 5 (32:59):
Yeah, no, it's it's amazing. And so for those of
you who don't know, the Duels is a program we have.
We have golf influencers and they play a lot. They
partner up with one of our stars and then they
play a competition for money for the you know, and
the fact that you can get John Rahm to give
four hours of his time to.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Play an event, you know, pretty special.
Speaker 5 (33:21):
I don't think that happens in any other sport anywhere
else in the world.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
None of us are born.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
In attest to Billy, Joel said in his recent documentary
We all have influences, all of us in our life.
We have mentors that could be our dad. Do you
look at say F one, and you look at it
and think it's a little bit of an inspiration for us?
Are there are there sports that you look at because
we connect you to golf.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
But golf's global now and I.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Look at F one and I think in UFC, and
I think, well, that is that's lived golf.
Speaker 5 (33:51):
That's how I view it. Do you look at one
hundred percent of how I see it? When you say
golf is global? I would push back on you and say, well,
you know, maybe before Tiger the sport was global. You know,
you had the European Tour and the PGA Tour like
sitting side by side, and then Tiger comes and all
the money, all the sponsors, all the TV money shifts
over the PGA Tour and so then forty two events
a year, you got every great player in the world
(34:13):
playing in the US, and like Formula one, we go
to Riot and then we go to Australia and then
Hong Kong and Singapore and Mexico City, and yes, we're
here in the US for five times a year, which
is in the UK fantastic.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
We love being in the US. I'm an American, absolutely
love it here.
Speaker 5 (34:30):
But the growth of the game, if you want to
grow the game, you've got to take stars and you
got to put them in Korea. You've got to put
them in Hong Kong. And that we think attracts more
young fans and talented this game, and this game is
going to the moon.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
What are the demographics quickly on I mean you've looked
at all of them. What is the average live golf fan?
What's the demo?
Speaker 5 (34:50):
They were about fifteen years younger than a typical golf
fan we saw today. Yeah, and what you might also
see if you get to walk a little bit, is
you see parents pushing strollers.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
You'll see, you know, groups of women coming.
Speaker 5 (35:03):
About about forty percent of our audience's female. It could
be a good dating opportunity for those who are single
out there come to see live. So so it's a
it's a younger it still has this supposable income. We
do a concerts, you know, so we have in the
next coming We've got Swedish House Mafia. We have Imagine Dragons,
you know, so Jason Derulo. So we have concerts that
(35:25):
I think attract a younger audience as well.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
One question I'm sure you get a lot is unification. Yes,
you know, you're an NBA, NFL.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
You've the new commission of the PGA to our CEO
whatever in the heck position is yeah, he's an NFL guy.
Have you guys talked, you know, just what the chatter
out there?
Speaker 2 (35:44):
What is the reality of what?
Speaker 5 (35:46):
Sure? So I'm not sure it's like the NFL. I
think it's more like NASCAR and Formula One. So the
question is should NASCAR and Formula One figure out a
way to work together?
Speaker 2 (35:55):
I think so.
Speaker 5 (35:56):
Brian Rolapp and I went to school together, so we
know each other fairly well. I've known each other for
a long time. He's really early in his job. I
think he's two weeks in and most importantly, we have
less scar tissue.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
And that's throughout the whole industry. You know, I'm new.
You know, the LPGA commissioner's new.
Speaker 5 (36:12):
Now, Brian at the PGA Tour is new, Mark Darwin
at the RNA is new. So you have all these
new people here and why are we all here? Because
the boards and all of golf looked around and said, huh,
I don't think this is good enough. I don't think
we're heading in the right direction. I think we've got
to find a way to put more players playing together.
How are we going to do that? How are we
(36:33):
going to lift up? How are we going to compete
against cricket and football and tennis?
Speaker 2 (36:37):
And why are we competing against ourselves so much?
Speaker 1 (36:40):
When you have an event like this, how how do
you select? Obviously you want to make a global but
how did you select Chicago? How does that? I mean
is that your call before you?
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Was that predate?
Speaker 1 (36:55):
You?
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Greg Norman? Who makes the decisions where you play? Why? Right?
Speaker 5 (37:00):
So the board has to approve, it's our chairman has
to approve. But and Ross Hollett runs our events like
a thirty year executive in golf, mostly at IMG is
now here and then I'm very engaged.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Of course, Now Chicago. Why not Chicago? I mean, it's
one of the great cities of America.
Speaker 5 (37:18):
It's a big golf starved in terms of this area,
and this course is absolutely spectacular.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
You mentioned something earlier, and you know this being in Philadelphia,
when you live in a city with three or four
cold winter months, when the sun shines in March everybody
jogs like non joggers jog. So my take was it
works in this city because for four months you don't
go outside.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Is that something you would like?
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Like Philadelphia's got that feel, Boston has that feel.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
I spend some time in the Northeast.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
I mean, if it's sunny in April, Boston is like
jogging capital of the world. Do you think about it
because you're such an event, This is an event we're watching.
It's not about history, it's about what town or city
works for us.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Is that under consideration? Yeah, of course.
Speaker 5 (38:04):
I mean we were just in Dallas, though, and that's
sun almost every day of the year, and it was
blazing home. We had fifty thousand people show up. Yeah,
so you know we're in the UK. The sun's never out.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
You know.
Speaker 5 (38:15):
I lived there for two years and we have forty
thousand people come there. So I feel like I feel
like if we do our jobs and let people know
that we're in town with the kind of star power
we have, good things happen when you put a music
act around it.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
We have Good.
Speaker 5 (38:30):
Charlotte here playing today. I can't tell you who Good
Charlotte is. I can tell you my daughters, Ken you know,
and so there is a younger demo we're looking for.
And I think if we go to the right markets.
In many cases we're going to Indianapolis. Not exactly a
powerhouse market, right, but it's a golf starve market, and
that is a market that knows how to rally for
big events.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
I've been there for final fours.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
You know.
Speaker 5 (38:50):
You know how that handles the final four? Does it
really well? And I think they're handling us really well.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
Well, I sent a pick to our mutual buddy Howie Roseman,
and you know, like how he's dealing with the player.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
It's you, the player, of the agent. There's not to
deal with anyone else. Golfers have an entourage.
Speaker 3 (39:03):
They got coaches, they got agents, they got they.
Speaker 4 (39:06):
Got a lot of people around them.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
How do you deal with that? Well?
Speaker 5 (39:09):
We this is uh, this is a league of alphas.
So you know, if if John Ram or DJ or
Phil or Price didn't have an issue, that's one on one.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Yeah, that's one on one.
Speaker 5 (39:21):
But remember that how complicated relationship is. We signed them,
you know, we we have to hug them.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
We have to. There are business partners. We find them
when things go wrong.
Speaker 5 (39:31):
So it's a complicated relationship, like how you manage that ecosystem?
Speaker 3 (39:35):
How does someone if you don't know these guys, obviously,
when you get the job, forge your relationship in a short.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Period of time with Phil Bris and all these guys.
How's that possible?
Speaker 5 (39:43):
Well, we spend a lot of time together, and we've
been on the road for seven months and and we
effectively live on airplanes and hotels and at the course together.
So time was one second? Is you put infrastructure in play?
So I have team breakfast at least one a time.
We have all kinds of committees that we get together.
I'm interacting with them. We eat breakfast, lunch and dinner together.
(40:04):
I mean, we're with these guys all the time. And
so and then it's about am I curious enough? Am
I humble enough to engage?
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (40:12):
We talked about this before you came on. And if
you're just chewing again, this is Scott O'Neill. He's a
live golf CEO and he worked for the Sixers, ran
that organization and MSG Entertainment.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Is that what you ran the New York Knicks and
New York Rangers?
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Okay, that's a big job. James Dolan, Yes, yes, spoke
to him two days ago. Oh you did, I did.
I don't like what they did with Tom Thibodoh but
that's another podcast.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
No, it's sure heck of a coach. He is.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
When you look, you're obviously going to expand and you
want to keep doing that globally. Is where the money
comes from? Are their demands that you have to meet?
Do you feel like is there pressure? Yes, yes, of course,
because there's this always a sea. Hey, money is endless.
Money is not an issue, and I always think money's
(40:59):
in a.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
You everywhere everywhere. Of course.
Speaker 5 (41:01):
You know I've worked in private equity now for twelve years, okay,
for and for Josh Harrison, David Blitzer from Paula and Blackstone,
and in my last role with a Blackstone company and
now here with PIF And yes, there's a lot of
pressure to deliver a business and that's what I signed
up for. Like I can't get enough of this. I
will tell you there are very few times in life
(41:21):
you probably both have it too, where you can't wait
to get up in the morning, Like there's so much
fun here that I cannot wait to get out of
bed and get get kicking, Like my heart My hard
thing for me is turning it off, not turning it on.
So pressure bringing out as Brooks Koepka always says, pressure
is a privilege.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
So relegation is happening. Yes, we got six happens.
Speaker 3 (41:40):
Where are you purchasing the players from to fill those spots?
Speaker 5 (41:43):
Yeah, so so good question. So in some cases we
have promotion events.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
So we have the Asian Tour. The best person on the.
Speaker 5 (41:52):
Asian Tour gets an invite in, and then we have
a promotions event where you can earn your way in,
and then we'll go talk to a PGA European Tour
NCAA players.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
So signing a player from the PGA Tour still on
the table.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Of course, Yeah, of course, Scott on Neill, this has
been great. Thanks for having me. You bet good to
be a member of the herd.
Speaker 5 (42:12):
The volume
The volume, well, the Colin Coward podcast. We are live
with my buddy John Middlecoff. We usually do these on
Sunday night after the NFL Games, but at the Volume,
we signed a contract with Live Golf, which I've been
(00:21):
a supporter of from day one, and I called Middlecoff
and I said, get out here to Chicago.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
So last night we got dehydrated.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
I'll leave it at that, and today we're at bowling
Brook Country Club out in the burbs in Chicago. It's
a beautiful course and we are at the.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Live Golf event.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
I had friends and acquaintances who had said, you got
to go to one of these tournaments, like it's a
real experience. And the first thing that jumps out to
you because we literally were you know, Brooks Kopka's coming up,
shaking our hand, coming over, the access to Dustin Johnson,
Sergio Garcia, Phil Mickelson.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
It's just different. It's a real thing. You know.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Kepka sure knows that you're a supporter because he came
right over.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
He doesn't smile. Offen had big smile.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
This is I've been to a lot of golf events,
US opens, PGA Tour events.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
This the vibe here.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
The energy is unlike this is more like a I
don't know, an SEC football game or something.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, I mean there's a huge crowd here today, So
it is a big crowd. And I think my takeaway is,
and I've always kind of believed this, you got to
get out of the studio. You gotta go to events,
Like I tell people, you know, I remember I used
to work with a guy, Mark Shapiro, and I said,
we were talking one time at Wimbledon actually, and I said,
(01:37):
my mom was British. I always loved Wimbledon, right, I
always watched it. But he'd never been to an SEC game,
and he was very really really young, And I say,
you just got to go.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
You gotta go to Baton Rouge.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
If you don't know what it's like during a football game,
you can smell the bourbon and when you come to
one of these events, I mean, it just jumps out
to you. First of all, they've take golf rich history.
There was always going to be pushback anything new in golf.
We've seen it in baseball. We all knew the game
had to get faster, right, We knew base and so
it took people pushback on the pitch clock well, the
(02:08):
minute they did it, the sports attendants and ratings went out.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
I get why there was pushback would live I get it.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
But what they've done is basically found obvious stuff that
golf can and probably should tweak to get a younger audience,
and it works.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
It definitely works in person.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
I mean it's a vibe here for sure, but they
you know one thing they got going for him right now.
I mentioning this on the driving range Steph Curry, what
he did for basketball the interest of young people. You
can go to any arena now when Steph's playing. I
don't care the Lakers, You're gonna see Steph Curry, Jerseys.
Bryson's kind of become that he is just a young
hip YouTube's been huge for him. People want to see him.
(02:48):
The other thing is we're on the first tea the leaderboard.
In this tournament. Brooks Kepkas won five majors. I mean
he knocked off people like Tiger Woods who tried to
beat him. Phil Mickelson's won six majors. One of the
most legendary players ever have some star power. I was
telling you Terrell Hatton, who is going to be one
of the superstars on the Ryder Cup for the international
team for years to come. Like he goes Rory Rum
(03:09):
and he's right there. So I mean they got I
mean when they built this thing. You know, golf's very
dependent like like basketball on the Stars, yes, you know.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Outside of maybe Augusta.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yeah, and they got and they got a lot of
Sergio Garcia won the Masters. You know, Patrick Reid won
the Masters. So they got a lot of accomplished golfers
out of here, for sure.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
You know, it's funny.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
It was interesting because I would say about four or
five years ago, I was a huge Dustin Johnson fan
and he's one of those and I saw him in
person today.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I mean he was three feet from us.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Look like an NFL quarterback.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
He's big, I mean he is Dustin's he's a big
he's a professional athlete. But his game is fascinating because
there was there was a time, I mean such a
mental game. There were about four years ago with Dustin Johnson.
I thought he was going to take over the sport.
And there are still times I watch him on the
Live Tour and I'm like, he's really a dynamic, power,
(04:00):
full player. But for some reason, and that's I think
that's the beauty of golf and the burden of it. Like,
what's where is Dustin Johnson?
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Now?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Well, I mean kind.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Of I would stay on the definitely on the back
nine of his career, probably on whole sixteen seventeen eighteen.
I mean, he had a run where he won a
PJ Tour event. I think in like twelve straight years.
I think, looking back, he's one of those guys. You know,
Brooks got the five majors, Phil's got six majors. You
look back on DJ's career, I bet he's kicking himself.
He probably should have had six or seven and he's
probably gonna end up with two now.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
He did win the Masters, which definitely changed his life.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
I mean, there was that one remember when Fox bought
the US Open and DJ three putted and Jordan Speed
ended up winning a Chambers Bay You're home stomping round.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
So I think he's one of.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Those careers where you just look back and I mean
it's been incredible. He's one of the most accomplished golfers
of his era, and he's one of the most talented
because you see him.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
I think with golf, I.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Guess football is a little like this guy's come in
different shapes and sizes, but Dustin stands out amongst everybody,
even next to Phil.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
He trumps them, you know, by three four inches.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I mean I watched six golfers, he looked six to six.
I mean he's massive.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Of all the six golfers, I saw that Te Doff today, Mickelson, Brooks, Kepka,
Sergio had Matton, there was no question Dustin sounded different.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, I mean he is.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
He is just a big He's a professional athlete.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
So but I think that, you know what. The other
thing that struck.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Me today is that when I you get access to
the driving range, like really close, and we got a
little closer than the fans, maybe five feet. But when
I turned around and I looked at the audience, much
younger audience than you would see.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
And there's always been young golf fans.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
But if you watch the gallery at the US Open
or Augusta, it's forty five fifty five, there's a lot
of twenty three twenty eight year old kids out here.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
I mean you come out here to hang out as
a party. That's most golf events. I live by one
in Phoenix. They're not usually parties. So I mean this
is this is my first time in Chicago. I've always
heard it's an event, party kind of atmosphere. You can
tell people gravitate toward fun stuff here, festivals, music's big
year events, and this is this is an event. I mean,
(06:15):
it's one of those that you got to be here
to kind of feel it, you know. I mean that
music blasts on whole one.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
That was crazy.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Yeah, so they had paratroopers come in. They got music
blasting on the first hole. And I also think, I mean,
I've only been in Chicago full time now for about
four months, but when you have a city with a
harsh winter, when the sun comes.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Out, people they're got in their car. They'll drive two out.
They don't care.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
That's why music. That's why they just had something here
the air day in town.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
I don't even know. It was a Lalla what was
the Lalla Palouza? That's things still real, right.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
It had a massive begones as I was a kid,
they had a massive crowd here and it's like, yeah,
because for four months you can't get out of the house.
So when you have this event, I mean, this is
a big crowd.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
I've been hearing about the Chicago summers for it's still hot.
You know, people act like it's like seventy degrees, you know.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
I mean it's it's warm. I mean we got lucky
today though, cool place.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Yeah we win, we got great.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
It's not good to the golfers. Man looks terrible.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Feel's already all over the place.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Yeah no, the I think wait, listen, we have to
at least address for a minute Shador Sanders. Yeah, okay,
it's the podcast, right. We got a couple of topics here.
So before he got drafted, he debuted last night. My
take was always big enough, accurate enough, moves well enough.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
When I watched last night, he checked those boxes.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
I don't know if he's going to be good pre snap,
is he mature enough. But when I watched them last night,
that was an event. By the way, speaking of an
event at the liv golf that was an event last night.
When I watched him, he was kind of what he
was in college. He's accurate, he moves well enough. There's
so many other boxes to check to be a franchise quarterback.
But my take was he delivered. He was what he
(07:55):
was in college.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
I think the one thing with preseason, because hard to
put it on context, Like, I don't know if you're
going up against the next Tran Williams or the next
guy that's gonna be selling insurance a month, right, so
you gotta be careful with that. You can judge instincts,
and you can just judge this guy can play football. Now,
the game plan the regular season is a different animal
than the preseason. But Shador has always just kind of
(08:17):
been an instinctive. He's never met his dad athletically, right,
He's not the most explosive athlete. He doesn't have the
greatest arm, but he kind of just makes him plays. Now,
you know, are they gonna throw him at Week one?
They're not gonna do that. But this was always like
once he started dropping in the draft, someone took him
if he looked good. It wasna be kinda it's gonna
be a circus. I mean it's you thought it was big. Now,
can you imagine Cleveland radio this week? They're not gonna
(08:40):
want to see one snap from Flacco. No one's gonna
want to see Flacco take us. Yeah, no one's gonna
want to see Kenny Fick. It's a very t bow feel,
but he's much better than t bow, way better. I
mean he's a quarterback, right TBA. This guy's a court
now can he be a good quarterback? And this is
where if I'm the owner, listen, I'll give you a
month because as the head coach, you can't just walk
into Miles Garrett. If Miles goes, I don't think quite
ready yet and not play the veteran guy. But if
(09:02):
we're one in three, one and four, I'm making the
switch quicker than some teams do. Remember like when Lamar
came in for Flaco, it was like the end of October.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
I'm not waiting that long. Yeah, you want to give
this guy to me?
Speaker 3 (09:14):
If I'm Haslam, I'm already like at minimum, let's get
like ten games. We got two first round picks. If
we're bad anyway, we're gonna be drafted the quarterback. Let's
get a big sample size. Who knows, maybe we don't
keep them, we can flip them.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Yeah, absolutely So, John and I'll be doing our stuff tomorrow.
Obviously on Sunday night, a lot of NFL stuff, little
teaser there. So as I watched Phil Mickelson, John and
I went to the first tea and they got the paratroopers,
and you know, there's you know, fireworks.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Michelson. First of all, he was in really good shape.
It looks good, and.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
He was the most popular golfer here. He was really popular.
But it was interesting because when I watched Phil.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
He's probably my generation's Arnold Palmer or something doing.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
I think so.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Phil now is not yet Greg Norman, but it kind
of feels like he's a businessman has filed. I mean
by the way he is the attraction. I like he
is really He and Bryson are and golf has always
had a great legacy. It loves its old stars, right.
But when I watched Phil today, He's in the best
shape I've ever seen, and I'm kind of wondering. I'm thinking,
because you're next to me, I'm kind of thinking.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Where are we with Phil? Do we expect him to win?
Do we? Or is it just like.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
It's like when musical acts their last eight years would
go to Vegas and they couldn't quite hit the notes,
but you wanted to go watch Barry Manilo Like, no,
he's not. I'm not saying that, but there is a
part of me with Phillip's like I don't really care
how he plays.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
I just want to see Phil Mickelson. Well, he's fifty five.
He's probably never gonna win another major. I mean he
won one a couple of years ago a Kiwa. That
was one of the coolest things. I think he's one
of the oldest players to ever win a major. I
forget the exact staty might he was fifty years old
and fifty five to still be this good. You could
make the argument that he's the greatest fifty five year.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Old golfer in the history of the sport.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
You know, relative, is he gonna beat Bryson and kept
going with great?
Speaker 1 (11:00):
No?
Speaker 3 (11:01):
The Masters is the one place because they play there
every year and he's exempt for life being a champion.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
I think two years.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Ago I think he finished second. So now is he
gonna win the event? I wouldn't bet. Is he gonna
take out Scotti, Scheffler or Bryson at there on? Probably not,
But that is one event where he can get hot.
I think he could top ten there again in his
late fifties. That is an incredib book. Remember what a
big deal was in the mid eighties when Jack won
at forty six years old.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yeah, so for people, are people are in better shape now?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
For sure?
Speaker 3 (11:27):
They eat better, right, Philip's great. I mean he looks
way better than he did when he was my age.
I mean, I a thirties early forties.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
No, so is Phil's about six two. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
So I looked at him today and I'm I'm six
to one and I'm a buck ninety and Phil's bigger
than I am. And I looked at him. I'm like,
he's six two two oh eight. I mean Phil's big,
I mean a hips big. And I looked at him,
I'm like, Phil's him good. And he had a tight
gulf shirt. I'm like, that's the best shape Phil's ever
been in.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
You know, bones, Phil's old cat. Yeah, I heard him
say this once.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
He's like, you know, when you look at Phil relative
a lot of these guys, you know, kept his battle
knee injuries. Bryson had a back when he got Bighill's
never had an injury. When you look at his swing,
because I don't know if it's his flexibility, his swing
kind of looks identical as it did twenty years ago.
He swings, and you know, power is a big part
of his game, kind of a unique a lot of
these guys. The nature of the swing, it's not a
normal human moment baseball players left handers. Yeah, it looks better.
(12:22):
It looks fantastic, you know so I yeah, I mean
he's never been injured, still playing, you know, relatively. Again,
you you top five at the Masters in your fifties,
like that's it probably happened, I don't know, less than
two times in the history of the game.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah, it's it's really fun here. It's really an event.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
I mean they first of all, it's incredibly well staffed.
You know how when you have different leagues sometimes you're like,
well it's a shoe string budget.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
That's not the case. I don't think budget's the issue.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
It is not the issue. No, they have and I'm
sure they have this everywhere, but I.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Think the key and they know what they're doing is
going to cities did or party fun places and it's
gonna work. You know. I think they had an event
earlier in Arizona and Tucson. I don't know if it
was last year or this year. They've been they've gone
to Australia. When they go to places that are fun,
I mean the atmosphere will be there won't be anything
like that.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Yeah, I mean I didn't know because where I live
in Chicago. This is about an hour ten drive. So
I was thinking, no, look at a decent crowd, but
you got to get in your car and commit to it,
and then you have to commit coming home. And I
was like, we had traffic, like real traffic. And I
got here and I looked at the first hole, I'm like,
oh shit, this is a real crowd, Like this is
a real this is something and I think the one
(13:35):
thing and this is not because first of all, watching
Rory when the Masters is about I said it on
the air, that was like four and a half hours
the best.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
TV of my life.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Like I watching Tiger when he got old with them,
there's nothing like the traditional British Open.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
I mean, I love filming the PGA a couple of
years ago.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
You can really like two things at the same time.
It's like I was never when I first defended Live,
my take it away was, Guys, if I say your
favorite part of golf, you're either going to say it's
the Masters, which isn't run by the PGA.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
That's not a.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Shot at THEAPGA was a charity that didn't run the
US Open, the British Augusta. So my take is always
I've always been loyal to the golfer. I wanted to
see Phil and Bryson and Kopka. I wanted to see
the golfer today. But I also understood the pushback by
traditionalists because outside of baseball, it's probably the most tradition
(14:27):
rich sport.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
But when you watch today, one of the things that
jumps out to me.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
As I grew up in a small town, we didn't
have country clubs. I've always felt like an outsider in golf,
even though I've gotten the bug in the last three years.
When you're here, it kind of feels like they took
that veneer and they pulled it off. They said, just
get close to the golfers. And I think that's something
that golf for younger generations.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
I think it works.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
I think one thing that I'm big on is on
Sunday is everyone having the same rotation of whole. And
I didn't know, I don't know if they've been doing this,
but staggering the.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
First team with multiple groups, so those six guys instead
of one.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
You know, the winner might finish on whole three because
he started on whole you know two this you know
they're going multiple groups off one that means they're all
going to finish on eighteen. Like I like seeing the
guys come down fifteen sixteen, seventeen, but Phil kept all
those guys went.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Off whole one.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
So I like the way that they do that, the
stagger tea on, you know, with the leaders, multiple groups.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
The.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
It's just it was really interesting today when Brooks Kepka
came over to us.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
He likes you, Colin, I seemit a supporter. No, I's
a sports guy. I was a huge Keopka guy.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Did not like the Shamba for the first two years
and the thirteen egg omelets and then Bryce and I
thought got very likable. He kind of a little more human,
a little more humble.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
Well, Brooks embrace them, h Brooks embrace them their buddies.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Yeah, and so it was like okay, and then Brooks
I think struggled with an injury. But Brooks and it
just it just it doesn't matter what business it is.
It could be politics, it can be golf. Deshambo is
an aggressive guy and it's just sort of his personality,
whereas Brooks is. But I think, if I had to guess,
(16:16):
he's probably super private, Yes, really private. So like you
get all types like, you know, if you're a politician,
you have to be somewhat social. Aaron Rodgers is not
the same personality as Tom Brady. Remember Jake Plumber. I'd
love Jake Plumbers, you loved him. Jake and Aaron are
a little iconic classic. They're not corporate guys. They're just
(16:41):
not comfortable in that space. That's okay. Not everybody's a
Brady feels like a corporation. Manning feels like he leans
into the corporation. So I always thought Bryson and Brooks
may have been big, strong, great look in alphas.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
They're just different guys.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Well, they're kind of opposite. You know, Brooks early on
his career gravitated with DJ. Both feel like, at least
so the public introverted, not giving you a lot.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
Bryson, whod he gravitate toward Phil?
Speaker 3 (17:04):
You know all this who's shaking hands, knows everybody's names,
hanging out with the CEO of all the companies. And
that's kind of Bryson's personality, Bryson's They're unique characters, you know,
DJ and Brooks like I envisioned them on a Sunday
watching football at home. You know who know Bryson's out
measuring the next golf club. Colin Phil what he thinks
about the wind and the scientifical intrinsic force of the
(17:26):
golf ball.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Right, that's what they talk about.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
DJ says, I want to hit a fate.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I hit a fath.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
I think you know it was interesting. I know there
was a book written about Phil. I don't think Phil
liked it at all, by Alan Shipknock, and it was
really fun. It was called Phil and I like Allen
and I you know, I've always been fascinated b Phil.
Phil Michlson's the only person in American sports that I've
never interviewed that I want to And I wouldn't even
talk golf.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
I just talked life.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
But when I read the book, what was interesting was
Phil's never tried to necessarily sell himself as politically correct.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
I thought the.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Book made him remember the movie Gordon Gecko Wall Street.
So when they made that movie, Oliver Stone, he wasn't
trying to make Gordon Gecko popular, but young stockbrokers watched
the movie and when that is cool, I want to
be Gordon Gecko, And Oliver Stone said, yeah, that wasn't
the mission? Is that when Alan Shipnukk writes a book,
(18:20):
You're like, oh, it's very critical, and I was like, yeah,
but I've drank too much and I've done this, and
I thought it kind of humanized him. I looked at
Phil and I was like, I think I like Phil Moore. Now,
when somebody writes a book about you, that's not how
it lands for you. But I think Phil watching how
he was welcome today. I think everybody gets what Phil is.
(18:40):
He's a great you ever use this term? He's a
great hang.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
I played in a golf event in Scott Sale probably
two or three months ago with multiple of his college
teammates and they are still very very close friends with
him today and one of their Football is a big
part of all these guys' lives.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
You know, they like football. I'm with you on Phil.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
One thing that my friends text about with Phil a lot,
it was like, you know that he gambles on.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
Football, So why you know, so does every single human
in my life.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Yeah, you get into trouble in life when you're selling
one thing and you're doing another. You don't people love
John Day and John's like, yeah, I smoke way too much,
and it's like it'd be one thing, if we caught
him smoking on a tour and he's saying, you know,
I'm I don't care politicians do this, You're flawed. Own it, Yeah,
just just own your stuff. So when I look at Phil,
(19:28):
his legacy to me is he's a good hang.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Yeah, I mean I think he's gonna. I mean, he's
you know, if we were doing like quarterbacks. He's easily
one of the top seven eight golfers in the history
of the sport. And he's to me, he's the Peyton
Manning of golf. He just happened to play against Tom Brady.
He just happen to play against Tiger Woods. Right, If
Tiger Woods doesn't exist, what's Phil winning twelve majors?
Speaker 4 (19:47):
You know?
Speaker 3 (19:47):
I mean there was a time Phil didn't win his
first major till he was in his mid thirties.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
Isn't that crazy?
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Well, that's the wild part. And he won the one
at fifties. So I think you could argue his career,
you know, is unique because he won a tournament as
an amateur and he was kind of Tiger Woods before
Tiger Woods, and then five years later Tiger came and
it was just an all time comment.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
I mean, just ask yourself this.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
If I think once Rory won the Masters, because that
was the one we were all rooting for, right like,
all of a sudden, Rory's playing well at Augusta. You're like, oh, Sunday,
I'm sitting in front of a TV. If I told
you there's any golfer in the world and I said
it's two o'clock Eastern on a Sunday and Blank leads Augusta,
(20:26):
I think most sports fans would.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Say, oh, gimme Phil heck yim.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
I mean that's just even though because there are certain golfers,
because golf's history, it's like it's almost like.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Watching old Nolan Ryan.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Nolan Ryan, they still put him on the marquee when
he was like at the end of his career. There
was one Nolan Ryan. And it's not just but you
have seven no hitters. There are certain athletes far have
had this quality. They're just relatable. You just kind of
like some kinetic energy. You just kind of feel like
when they're in the room, they changed the temperature.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
Well, I think it was two like during the Tiger era.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Obviously Tiger was the best player I've ever seen, but
he didn't talk to anybody had no friends, wouldn't even
look at Marko.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Lemeira and him were kind of okay, and then they
broke up.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Phil was the one guy that would kind of play
the Arnold Palmer role, that would talk with the fans.
That was a big personality. So they kind of yin
and yanged each other in terms of personalities. He was
pretty important for Tiger in terms of the balancing out.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
I mean those two were in such a different stratosphere.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Remember when they used to do like highest paid athlete
and it'd be Tiger than Phil, then like the Kobe's
and all the other guys. Yes, and then Lebron came
along and they were always third behind those two guys.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
Yeah, I mean they changed.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
They took golf to a popularity level and a corporate
level I would say in the two thousands that they
had never even dreamed of with guys like Arnold Palmer.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Right, Yeah, you know, if you go back to and
you'd have to google this, but if you go back
to nineteen sixty before the PGA was created, I could
be wrong on this. Weren't Arnie and Jack because it
was called something differently and they didn't quite think they
were getting paid enough.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Yeah, they were about to break it down. They were
about try jack Jack led the charge.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah, so I think you know Phil, Greg Norman complaining
four years you told me a story when you thought
there was a breaking point with Phil, And that's why
I've always defended lived with what was the break in?
Speaker 3 (22:20):
It was Fox They bought the US Open and I
think they were paying well over one hundred million dollars
for a ten year deal a tournament, right, so ten
tournaments a billion dollars. And I remember Hunter Mayhon, who
was very close with Phil, was like one issue a
lot of players, but Phil was the most outspoken about it.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
In baseball, basketball, football, there's a revenue sharing.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Well I get forty nine, you get fifty one, I
get forty nine.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
Eight, you get you know whatever it split.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Basically, even the purseon went from like twelve million to
sixteen million, and Phil's like, what.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
The hell is going on here? Where is the money going?
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Right?
Speaker 4 (22:52):
It didn't make sense?
Speaker 3 (22:53):
And that was and obviously, you know live coming around
the PGA money, the money's exploded since this TIS usually
creates that. But like all these golfers have benefited, but
it was never like that that's right. You know, Tiger,
all these guys Phil too. When they were making sixty
eighty million dollars a year, they're only making three or
four in the course.
Speaker 4 (23:12):
It was all coming off the course.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Yeah, so that's where Scotti Schffler now made sixty five million.
Joaquem Neeman winning all these tournaments has made like thirty
five million dollars.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
These guys now are paid like NBA NFL boy.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
And should be. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
I mean you and I were talking when we were
driving out of the tournament today. You got to drive yourself.
If you get sick, you don't get It's like being
a lawyer. If you're not working, you're not getting paid
well your own business.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
So you're paying your coach, you're paying your caddy, you're
paying yourself, you're paying the git. You know, it's like
you are paying for the hotel when the Chiefs are
playing the Cardinals today. Do you know what, Patrick Mahomes
doesn't have to worry about the hotel. Travis Kelsey, they
take care of all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
So that's that's not golf.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
But that's what makes this sport kind of way different
than all the other team sports in the sense that
you're kind of on your own right.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
You have to worry about yourself. You have to.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
You're just an independent contractor.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
But when you're Brooks, when you're Bryson, when you're Scottie Rory,
these guys are such.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Big businesses now.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
I mean, what's the difference between Phil's business for twenty
years and Steph Curry in terms of the revenue flowing in?
Speaker 4 (24:13):
So you need the right people around you.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Think about what a common ship Bryson is right now,
I mean, just a business rocket ship.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
John Middlecoff the herd.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
We are a bowling brook liv Tour Live tour has
been fantastic. The guy that runs the whole thing. Every
golfer owes him a debt of gratitude. Isn't that nice?
I'm not sure if that's true, but it really is
a good intro. All right, round one here it lives
in Chicago to live Golf CEO. He succeeded Greg Norman,
(24:42):
Scott O'Neil with a storied and interesting Nick Sixer's history
and more. Next, all right, Scott O'Neil has been kind
enough to stop by. He sort of escorted John and
I for an hour. You succeeded Greg Norman in twenty
(25:03):
twenty five, and I think both John and I today
are takeaway on this because I had friends that come.
Foxes obviously has a relationship, it's an event, it's a
good time, and that's not a criticism of anything. But
when you're new, you get those little freebies that you're
(25:23):
not beholden the tradition and you know you've see You
ran the Sixers, you ran Madison Square Garden Network. When
you succeeded Greg, your takeaway was is it an intentional
act to be different or do you just kind of
watch your sport and watch the crowd and listen to
the golfers on all these innovations.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Right, that's interesting position.
Speaker 5 (25:45):
I can tell you that having been in sports for
thirty years in the NFL and the NBA and NHL,
I've seen leagues change. We talked about earlier. Major League
Baseball puts a runner on second next year, has.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
A pitch clock, by the way. Two things that I
absolutely love.
Speaker 5 (25:59):
Where Philly's season ticket holders we go to a lot
of baseball games.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
I love it.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
The two line pass that just grinded the NHL to
a halt or overtime that could seem last forever. Now
that three on three overtime in NHL genius and with golf,
we're not splitting Adams and we're not saving lives.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
But before we're bringing fans into this game.
Speaker 5 (26:16):
So if there are little things we can do to
bring new people to this game and live our mission.
And by the way, the PGA Tour does a wonderful
job in the US. All we're saying is we want
to take these stars and take them to the world
because the game is growing in Australia, it's growing in Korea,
it's growing in China, and we have this opportunity to
grow the game. And so if we have guys stars
(26:36):
like Bryson D. Chambeau and John Rahm and Brooks Kepka
and Phil Michelson. I heard you talking about Phil Nicholson,
all Sergio Garcia, all these stars, if they're willing to
get on a plane and fly to Korea, let's go.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Let's go grow this game. Did they ever complain about
the music?
Speaker 5 (26:50):
No, you know what's so strange that exists before you
got here. Yeah, they love the music on the range.
A lot of math headphones and they're listening to music.
First off, But what's really strange to me, is there
they found the music. But if somebody says something on
their back, that's right, they'll step back and look over
at them, you know, which which always to me is strange.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
But they like the consistency of the music.
Speaker 5 (27:10):
They like the PA and on the first team you
might remember their walk up songs just.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Like basical they choose, they choose them. Yeah, and it
always is funny.
Speaker 5 (27:17):
It's the songs they choose always are very fitts.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
Justin Joneson came out to Wonder Wall by ways.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
These they're superstitious too.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
They have a bad.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Round the song's gone, imagine.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
So how often do the golfers, Because you have a
relationship with all.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Of them very very much.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
And and this is again I'm not taking shots. James jam
wan a Hand had some contentious relationships and my take
was always outside of Augusta, I don't watch golf for
the course, I watch it for the guys.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Your relationships different.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Like the golfers are coming over to you, do they complain,
do they make suggestions?
Speaker 2 (27:52):
You tell me what you go through?
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Bryson, Phil Sergio, What are the conversations like when they
call you at nine thirty at night.
Speaker 5 (28:00):
Yeah, yeah, no, we're twenty four to seven operation. And
some of those guys like six am calls and some
of them like them at midnight, and I'll take them all.
I cannot get enough of these players. I always think
ambivalence is the worst possible emotion, and whether that be
a fan or a player, guys that are passionate and
have something to say. I've got a lot of time
for We're very active with the players. Now there are
(28:21):
business parts. It's a bit of a different model.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
You know, they.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
Own equity in the teams. You know, it's a very
different model. And so every change we make, every course,
we go to the schedule on how it's set up.
Do you want to play before Major or after Major?
I'm engaging. We're talking about agronomy last night with some
of these players, Like, hey, the Greens are rolling at eleven,
you know, the wins coming in. Should we be watering,
should we not be warning? Should be pressing? I mean,
(28:44):
they are very very much into making this great.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
But guess what this is our third full year.
Speaker 5 (28:51):
Imagine Major League Baseball in year three, Imagine the National
Football League in year three.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
We're year three.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Well, you're friends with Dana White, who I love. You
love UFC as well. So I can remember being in
a bar in the Bay and it wasn't UFC yet who.
By the way, the late John McCain tried to throw
UFC off cable. They were battling for years. You watch
an event now and you're like, man, it's slick. I
can remember when Dana took it over and he wanted
(29:17):
corporate support. It's like, Okay, we can't do eye gouging.
We can't do this. If you go look at over
the course of UFC now it looks all slick. My
wife's not a sports fan, she loves UFC. But the
truth is we live in a very impatient world. Live
golfs in year three, Like, guys, take a deep breath.
It's like, as I'm in the year four of the volume,
(29:39):
there are things we do now we look at we're like,
why were we? Why were we doing this two years ago?
Like the world you're an entrepreneur, it's growing.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
You know what's going through my head?
Speaker 5 (29:48):
This isn't the question you asked, but I'm like, Connor McGregor,
is that our Bryson d chambeau, What did you say?
Do you remember gsp CSP Is that John Ram That's
what's going through my head as you're talking about.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Very similar in UFC never had the you know, there
are more famous players, I would say in lived than
UFC's ever had, of course, at least, I mean esventually
your top five to six guys.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
I'm looking at Odell. I mean he's in now, Chuck.
The Dell's are going too.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
He's a needle mover.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
No you Phil, I asked you, I said, where is
Phil now? And you reminded me he had a top
ten finition Augusta a couple of years ago, two years ago?
Speaker 2 (30:25):
What is you have a close relationship? What is he now?
Is he Entrumpneuver?
Speaker 4 (30:30):
First?
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Is he golfer? Second? I mean he's slimmed down? What
is he?
Speaker 5 (30:33):
I mean, he's an enigma and I don't think there's
going to be another Phil Nicholson. He's fifty four years old,
about turn fifty five. His goal this year was to
get into the top ten of this league with a
bunch of young stars in their prime. Okay, he decided
to remake and change his game to be a little
less wild wild West, a little bit more less hit
in the middle of the fairway. Let's get on in regulation,
(30:55):
and let's let's take this buttter.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
First, because the team format or just his body, no,
I think I think his body's change. He can't do
what these young kids we talked about Tom mckibbon or
Caleb Sarrah or David Pooh. They're coming and hitting the
ball three in the thirty yards off the tee and
he's like, Okay, I know I can't do that, but
I can beat these guys.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
I'm better. I'm that good.
Speaker 5 (31:11):
So that's that's one part of Phil. The second part
of Phil is he's just a competitor. Like these guys.
You look at golfers from the outside before I came
to this business, and I'm like, God, that's it's nice.
These are not gentlemen, Okay, these are guys who are
so fiercely competitive. When they come off the course, they're like,
you know, they have all this testosterone adrenaline roll and
(31:32):
I'm like, I like to see it. I mean, we
do a little corporate thing, a little putting contest. I mean,
DJ was complaining that the reads were different. It's a
court by a bunch of executives putting among the side
of this competition. These guys want to win and want
to fight, and that's the other side of Phil. And
the third piece is think about Phil the learner. Think
about like Phil saw what Bryson was doing on YouTube
(31:52):
and he's like, why can't I do that? So we
partners with Grant Orbath. Now he's got four hundred thousand
followers on YouTube. Phil Mickelson, fifty four year old Phil
Nicholson reimagining himself, reinventing himself. And then he's obviously the
captain and one of our partners and high flyers. So
he's always I see him on the first tee, I'm like, hey, Phil,
good luck, knock him dead, give him hell today and
(32:13):
he wants to talk about the business. Okay, Scott, how
many fans we're going to have here today? When we
go to when you're looking at a market and you
I mean, I'm like, I'm this guy, this guy's for real. Yeah,
So I love. I've been around some of the great
execs in the world. David Stern was a long time
mentor of mine. I worked for him for eight years
and I just remember him being this lifelong learner.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Adam Silver, the current commission in the NBA.
Speaker 5 (32:32):
Always learning, always reaching, always discovering, always figuring out what
do I have to do next?
Speaker 2 (32:37):
That's Phil Nicholson, those duels. His idea was that yours.
Speaker 5 (32:41):
No, you know that that came out of you know,
like we've been studying the YouTube spaces. If you walk
the range and talk to the little young kids, which
I like to do. I always said, who's your favorite player,
Bryson Champo. Really, how'd you discover Bryson YouTube? So I
think once we saw the revolution happening on YouTube, did
you do.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
It when Grant or Fat Perez come out here?
Speaker 2 (32:59):
He is famous?
Speaker 5 (32:59):
Yeah, no, it's it's amazing. And so for those of
you who don't know, the Duels is a program we have.
We have golf influencers and they play a lot. They
partner up with one of our stars and then they
play a competition for money for the you know, and
the fact that you can get John Rahm to give
four hours of his time to.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Play an event, you know, pretty special.
Speaker 5 (33:21):
I don't think that happens in any other sport anywhere
else in the world.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
None of us are born.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
In attest to Billy, Joel said in his recent documentary
We all have influences, all of us in our life.
We have mentors that could be our dad. Do you
look at say F one, and you look at it
and think it's a little bit of an inspiration for us?
Are there are there sports that you look at because
we connect you to golf.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
But golf's global now and I.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Look at F one and I think in UFC, and
I think, well, that is that's lived golf.
Speaker 5 (33:51):
That's how I view it. Do you look at one
hundred percent of how I see it? When you say
golf is global? I would push back on you and say, well,
you know, maybe before Tiger the sport was global. You know,
you had the European Tour and the PGA Tour like
sitting side by side, and then Tiger comes and all
the money, all the sponsors, all the TV money shifts
over the PGA Tour and so then forty two events
a year, you got every great player in the world
(34:13):
playing in the US, and like Formula one, we go
to Riot and then we go to Australia and then
Hong Kong and Singapore and Mexico City, and yes, we're
here in the US for five times a year, which
is in the UK fantastic.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
We love being in the US. I'm an American, absolutely
love it here.
Speaker 5 (34:30):
But the growth of the game, if you want to
grow the game, you've got to take stars and you
got to put them in Korea. You've got to put
them in Hong Kong. And that we think attracts more
young fans and talented this game, and this game is
going to the moon.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
What are the demographics quickly on I mean you've looked
at all of them. What is the average live golf fan?
What's the demo?
Speaker 5 (34:50):
They were about fifteen years younger than a typical golf
fan we saw today. Yeah, and what you might also
see if you get to walk a little bit, is
you see parents pushing strollers.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
You'll see, you know, groups of women coming.
Speaker 5 (35:03):
About about forty percent of our audience's female. It could
be a good dating opportunity for those who are single
out there come to see live. So so it's a
it's a younger it still has this supposable income. We
do a concerts, you know, so we have in the
next coming We've got Swedish House Mafia. We have Imagine Dragons,
you know, so Jason Derulo. So we have concerts that
(35:25):
I think attract a younger audience as well.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
One question I'm sure you get a lot is unification. Yes,
you know, you're an NBA, NFL.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
You've the new commission of the PGA to our CEO
whatever in the heck position is yeah, he's an NFL guy.
Have you guys talked, you know, just what the chatter
out there?
Speaker 2 (35:44):
What is the reality of what?
Speaker 5 (35:46):
Sure? So I'm not sure it's like the NFL. I
think it's more like NASCAR and Formula One. So the
question is should NASCAR and Formula One figure out a
way to work together?
Speaker 2 (35:55):
I think so.
Speaker 5 (35:56):
Brian Rolapp and I went to school together, so we
know each other fairly well. I've known each other for
a long time. He's really early in his job. I
think he's two weeks in and most importantly, we have
less scar tissue.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
And that's throughout the whole industry. You know, I'm new.
You know, the LPGA commissioner's new.
Speaker 5 (36:12):
Now, Brian at the PGA Tour is new, Mark Darwin
at the RNA is new. So you have all these
new people here and why are we all here? Because
the boards and all of golf looked around and said, huh,
I don't think this is good enough. I don't think
we're heading in the right direction. I think we've got
to find a way to put more players playing together.
How are we going to do that? How are we
(36:33):
going to lift up? How are we going to compete
against cricket and football and tennis?
Speaker 2 (36:37):
And why are we competing against ourselves so much?
Speaker 1 (36:40):
When you have an event like this, how how do
you select? Obviously you want to make a global but
how did you select Chicago? How does that? I mean
is that your call before you?
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Was that predate?
Speaker 1 (36:55):
You?
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Greg Norman? Who makes the decisions where you play? Why? Right?
Speaker 5 (37:00):
So the board has to approve, it's our chairman has
to approve. But and Ross Hollett runs our events like
a thirty year executive in golf, mostly at IMG is
now here and then I'm very engaged.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Of course, Now Chicago. Why not Chicago? I mean, it's
one of the great cities of America.
Speaker 5 (37:18):
It's a big golf starved in terms of this area,
and this course is absolutely spectacular.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
You mentioned something earlier, and you know this being in Philadelphia,
when you live in a city with three or four
cold winter months, when the sun shines in March everybody
jogs like non joggers jog. So my take was it
works in this city because for four months you don't
go outside.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Is that something you would like?
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Like Philadelphia's got that feel, Boston has that feel.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
I spend some time in the Northeast.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
I mean, if it's sunny in April, Boston is like
jogging capital of the world. Do you think about it
because you're such an event, This is an event we're watching.
It's not about history, it's about what town or city
works for us.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Is that under consideration? Yeah, of course.
Speaker 5 (38:04):
I mean we were just in Dallas, though, and that's
sun almost every day of the year, and it was
blazing home. We had fifty thousand people show up. Yeah,
so you know we're in the UK. The sun's never out.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
You know.
Speaker 5 (38:15):
I lived there for two years and we have forty
thousand people come there. So I feel like I feel
like if we do our jobs and let people know
that we're in town with the kind of star power
we have, good things happen when you put a music
act around it.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
We have Good.
Speaker 5 (38:30):
Charlotte here playing today. I can't tell you who Good
Charlotte is. I can tell you my daughters, Ken you know,
and so there is a younger demo we're looking for.
And I think if we go to the right markets.
In many cases we're going to Indianapolis. Not exactly a
powerhouse market, right, but it's a golf starve market, and
that is a market that knows how to rally for
big events.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
I've been there for final fours.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
You know.
Speaker 5 (38:50):
You know how that handles the final four? Does it
really well? And I think they're handling us really well.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
Well, I sent a pick to our mutual buddy Howie Roseman,
and you know, like how he's dealing with the player.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
It's you, the player, of the agent. There's not to
deal with anyone else. Golfers have an entourage.
Speaker 3 (39:03):
They got coaches, they got agents, they got they.
Speaker 4 (39:06):
Got a lot of people around them.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
How do you deal with that? Well?
Speaker 5 (39:09):
We this is uh, this is a league of alphas.
So you know, if if John Ram or DJ or
Phil or Price didn't have an issue, that's one on one.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Yeah, that's one on one.
Speaker 5 (39:21):
But remember that how complicated relationship is. We signed them,
you know, we we have to hug them.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
We have to. There are business partners. We find them
when things go wrong.
Speaker 5 (39:31):
So it's a complicated relationship, like how you manage that ecosystem?
Speaker 3 (39:35):
How does someone if you don't know these guys, obviously,
when you get the job, forge your relationship in a short.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Period of time with Phil Bris and all these guys.
How's that possible?
Speaker 5 (39:43):
Well, we spend a lot of time together, and we've
been on the road for seven months and and we
effectively live on airplanes and hotels and at the course together.
So time was one second? Is you put infrastructure in play?
So I have team breakfast at least one a time.
We have all kinds of committees that we get together.
I'm interacting with them. We eat breakfast, lunch and dinner together.
(40:04):
I mean, we're with these guys all the time. And
so and then it's about am I curious enough? Am
I humble enough to engage?
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (40:12):
We talked about this before you came on. And if
you're just chewing again, this is Scott O'Neill. He's a
live golf CEO and he worked for the Sixers, ran
that organization and MSG Entertainment.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Is that what you ran the New York Knicks and
New York Rangers?
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Okay, that's a big job. James Dolan, Yes, yes, spoke
to him two days ago. Oh you did, I did.
I don't like what they did with Tom Thibodoh but
that's another podcast.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
No, it's sure heck of a coach. He is.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
When you look, you're obviously going to expand and you
want to keep doing that globally. Is where the money
comes from? Are their demands that you have to meet?
Do you feel like is there pressure? Yes, yes, of course,
because there's this always a sea. Hey, money is endless.
Money is not an issue, and I always think money's
(40:59):
in a.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
You everywhere everywhere. Of course.
Speaker 5 (41:01):
You know I've worked in private equity now for twelve years, okay,
for and for Josh Harrison, David Blitzer from Paula and Blackstone,
and in my last role with a Blackstone company and
now here with PIF And yes, there's a lot of
pressure to deliver a business and that's what I signed
up for. Like I can't get enough of this. I
will tell you there are very few times in life
(41:21):
you probably both have it too, where you can't wait
to get up in the morning, Like there's so much
fun here that I cannot wait to get out of
bed and get get kicking, Like my heart My hard
thing for me is turning it off, not turning it on.
So pressure bringing out as Brooks Koepka always says, pressure
is a privilege.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
So relegation is happening. Yes, we got six happens.
Speaker 3 (41:40):
Where are you purchasing the players from to fill those spots?
Speaker 5 (41:43):
Yeah, so so good question. So in some cases we
have promotion events.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
So we have the Asian Tour. The best person on the.
Speaker 5 (41:52):
Asian Tour gets an invite in, and then we have
a promotions event where you can earn your way in,
and then we'll go talk to a PGA European Tour
NCAA players.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
So signing a player from the PGA Tour still on
the table.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Of course, Yeah, of course, Scott on Neill, this has
been great. Thanks for having me. You bet good to
be a member of the herd.
Speaker 5 (42:12):
The volume
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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