August 20, 2025 • 41 mins
Colin talks about the ongoing contract drama between Micah Parsons and Jerry Jones, and he reviews the new documentary on the Cowboys and why today’s version of America’s Team feels lost compared to when Jerry Jones first purchased the team
He discusses Aaron Rodgers not playing in preseason with the Steelers and why he might get off to a slow start in Pittsburgh this year
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Here we go. It's Wednesday. We are live. We're in Chicago.
It is The Herd. Wherever you may be and however
you may be watching or listening. Thanks for making us
part of your day. John Middlecoff and I here again
in tow So. I sat last night. John and I
watched several episodes of the Jerry Jones Netflix special The
(00:47):
Gambler America's team, highly entertaining. Took a few notes. I
know that's door key, but I had to take some
notes here, and it is wild. First of all, it's
another example. We saw this for the Last Dance with
Michael Jordans and we see this with Jerry. When you're
when you're creating something special, even if you're Michael Jordan
(01:10):
or you have Jimmy Johnson and Trougman, it's hard. It's really,
really hard for Michael Jordan all those years getting tackled
by the Pistons and the Celtics. But I want to
I want to start John with what was and what
is with the Dallas Cowboys. So let's start with that.
So I read a story this morning Micah Parsons and
the Cowboys headed towards a divorce and a messy contract sagam.
(01:33):
So I'm watching that Netflix special last night, and what
is remarkable at Jerry Jones At that point it was
almost broke. He spent every penny on the Dallas Cowboys.
Jimmy Johnson told me that. I mean, he spent every
penny on the Cowboys and after the first year they
didn't know if they were gonna make it was he
gonna have to sell the team. But he was so
aggressive and so decisive and had such a clear plan.
(01:54):
Jerry Jones did that. It all worked. He would He
got Apeman and Jimmy Johnson and Emmet's and Michael Irvin
and Dave wants that. And he was patient and Jerry's
still patient, sometimes too much. But what you noticed with
that Jerry is the aggressiveness, the decisiveness. He made strong,
(02:15):
swift decisions, The herschel Walker trade and never looked back.
That's not the Cowboys today, where the Dak Prescott or
Micah Parsons contracts in golf camp, in golf the team.
And as I was watching that, I thought, you know what,
you know who the Dallas Cowboys of that era are.
(02:39):
They're the Philadelphia Eagles. Now. The Eagles have a brand.
The Eagles have the most aggressive GM. The Eagles occasionally
make mistakes, rarely with but they're decisive. They don't look back.
If they make a move and they don't like it,
they move off it. Carson Wentz immediately, they move off
(03:00):
coaches who win Super Bowls if it's not a good
fit today decisive push push Saquon Barkley deal. The Eagles
today are the Cowboys. In the Netflix special, Dallas now
is reactive. Dallas then was proactive. Philadelphia now proactive. They
(03:20):
made a deal three days ago. They're always making deals.
And yet the Micah Parsons contract saga appears it's not
going to end. Well, you knew he was an All
Pro as a rookie. Do what the Eagles do, sign
him early or trade him and get a fortune. But
the Dak I saw a headline this morning, The Cowboys
(03:42):
negotiating tactics have probably cost them approximately one hundred million dollars.
Think about this. Dak Prescott's cap hit currently is bigger
than aj Brown, Saquon Barkley, and Jalen Hurts combined. They
don't get deals anymore. Philadelphia gets deal. Philadelphia is always
making moves. Philadelphia is decisive. Philadelphia's got a running play
(04:06):
they invented that used to be Jerry Remember when he
pushed back on the NFL and like a Pepsi deal
in the NFL wanted to sue him. And I mean,
Jerry just he just didn't herschel Walker move, Buy this oil, well,
buy this football team, fire tech, shram fire, the late
great Tom Landry didn't pause. That's business one hundred miles
(04:29):
an hour. And Jerry knew as an oil catter a
maverick that you're not going to go one hundred for
one hundred. But it didn't stop him. Now there's video
out there him acknowledging, Yeah, I don't have the guts
to do what the Rams did with Golf and Stafford.
I could not do that, young Jerry could. I strongly
(04:49):
suggest you watch it because I just couldn't stop thinking
those Cowboys, that's the Eagles now cut of the envy
of the league. We all go like, get a little
crazy up in Philadelphia. I don't know if Nick Sirianni's
the guy. That's what they were saying about Jimmy Johnson
first couple of years. He's crazy. Jimmy Johnson, guy's crazy, crazy, smart.
(05:14):
So I mean it just it was amazing to watch
how charismatic the Cowboys were and how they lack an
identity today. I don't even know what they are. But Jerry,
and he has always been a showman. His dad was
cool story. He is on the red carpet for this show.
(05:36):
For Jerry, the one thing that remains a constant, he
knows the lights are on and he wants to perform.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
I do believe if we're not being looked at, then.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
I'll do my part to get a slipped at.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Oh. It's wonderful to have the great athletes, have the
great players shoot, but there's something more were there. There's sizzled,
there's emotion, and if you will, there's controversy. That controversy
is good stuff in terms of keeping and having people's attention.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, we're watching you got our attention. We just don't
like the results, all right. So I haven't talked to
Aaron Rodgers for a few days. It's about time. It's Wednesday.
So Aaron Rodgers is not going to play in the
preseason finale. I'm okay with it. He's sitting the preseason
for second straight year. He's not planned. But it's a
(06:32):
little different this year because if you look at the
early schedule for Pittsburgh first game, Aaron Glenn defensive guy, Jets,
next game, Mike McDonald Seahawks third game, Mike Vrabel defensive guy,
fourth game. Best defensive coordinator in the league in my opinion,
(06:54):
Brian Flores. And he's not taking a preseason snap. He
had an abbreviated off season, so he's never taken a
stab snap with DK Metcalf, he's never taken a live
stap with Arthur Smith. PFF rates the offensive line at
twenty first and for whatever reason, blame who will you want?
The Steelers have not consistently run the ball for about
(07:15):
six years, maybe eight, and that's Aaron's reality. So I
do think Pittsburgh needs to get off to a hot
start because in Aaron Rodgers' career. There has always been
been one statistic. There has always been one statistic that
is hard to figure out. Aaron Rodgers has the sixth
(07:40):
most quarterback starts of all time, yet he is tied
for twenty fifth in fourth quarter comebacks Peyton Manning forty three,
Marino Elway in the thirties. He has few or than
Derek Carr, Ryan Tannehill, Andy Dalton Well. His teams didn't
(08:05):
trail a lot, did Peyton Mannings, did Marino in Elway's
So why does Aaron need to start quickly? Because I've
always used that stat and it belies what I've always
thought to be true. Aaron's personality changes based on the
(08:25):
score and his performance in games. One of the things
I loved about Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck, Patrick Mahomes, and
Tom Brady they do not give a rip. If they've
got two pick six's in the first quarter, they'll play
their arsof they are fox hole guys, they are ballers.
They don't care. In game performance does not change their personality.
(08:49):
Sometimes I'd watch Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning after a
really bad pick and I'd be like, guys may scale
back a little on the aggressiveness Peyton was. That's not
who Andrew Luck was. Aaron's different. Aaron gets dark, he
gets moody, his demeanor changes, his facial expressions change, He'll
(09:10):
throw the ball away. He in game pouts. That's what
describes in otherwise inexplicable stat twenty fifth all time in
fourth quarter comebacks. He's got the six most stars. Is
that if Aaron's not playing well, he's trailing late, he
kind of bails. And if you look at this schedule,
(09:33):
this schedule is defense, defense, defense, defense, elite defensive coaches,
and he's never taken a live snap with DK Metcalf,
Arthur Smith. It's not a good old line. So I'm
not saying he should play it. I don't have a
problem with him not playing, but I didn't love the
(09:53):
abbreviated off season, and I don't love it. Forty one
years old, he no longer has the talent to mediocre teammates,
and Pittsburgh offensively has got to mediocre guys. So Mike
Mike Tomlin says he's totally comfortable with Aaron Rodgers not
taking a snap in the preseason.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
Uncomfortable with what I'm seeing out here. Obviously, if I weren't,
I would be playing. Everyone else is under consideration. They're
preparing as if they're going to play. There are a
lot of variables in it. Who's playing for Carolina and
things of that nature that might provide worthy competition. But
as I sit here today, all healthy outside of the
fort that I mentioned are preparing and scheduled to play.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Forty one year old shaky o line, no run game,
never taken live snaps in the game with the OC
or DK metcalf And by the way, Aaron's a good
looking guy, and I have said before the league is
more interesting with Aaron Rodgers playing than not playing. I
don't think Pittsburgh's a good fit. I didn't necessarily think
(10:59):
the Jets was a good deep down. I was rooting
for him to go to Minnesota or San Francisco, but
the Niners, like Brock Purty and JJ McCarthy was drafted,
so it didn't happen. But I'll say one thing that
cannot be the last helmet he wears. If you're watching
me on television, you see this picture. That helmet is
(11:19):
so outsized. I can see the shadows inside the helmet.
He looks like a small plane. Parked in a Delta hangar.
Somebody get that helmet fixed for Aaron Rodgers. See that
thing right behind me? That cannot be the last picture
of Aaron Rodgers. Tighten it up, Steelers. You can't get
(11:39):
the run game right, at least get the helmet right
for Aaron Rodgers. Okay, John I yesterday we had some
fun on the show where we took the Bear schedule.
I tried to be optimistic and I said, life's about happiness,
is about expectations. So if you really look at the
schedule for the Bears, if they go nine to eight,
(12:02):
you should actually come out of the season and feel
pretty darn good. That probably means you split with your division.
We're gonna do that with another team today, and we're
not gonna be as positive because this is my going
downhill fast franchise. So don't go anywhere. We've got a
lot going on today. In an update with Caleb Williams
(12:24):
and the.
Speaker 5 (12:24):
Bears, be sure to catch live editions of The Herd
Weekdays and Noone Easter nine am Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 6 (12:34):
He's Mike Krmen, I'm Dan Bayern. We have a fantasy
football podcast called I Want Your Flex.
Speaker 5 (12:39):
That's right, Dan.
Speaker 7 (12:40):
Every week we're gonna scour the waiver wire to find
the pickups to turbo boost your fantasy lineup, sit starts,
fantasy football players rankings to get you ready to dominate
the competition.
Speaker 6 (12:52):
Listen to I Want Your Flex with Mike Carmon and
meet Dan Byer on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts and
wherever you bet your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
All Right, it's been reported Caleb Williams other Bear starters
will play in the preseason finale against the Kansas City Chiefs.
I am for that in most instances, I do like
young quarterbacks taking snaps. So going back to watching the
Cowboys special last night, he just I mean, you just
(13:21):
forget how much patient we patients we used to have
with quarterbacks. Troy Aikman just got that, you know what,
kicked out of him for two and a half years
his first two seasons starting forget the fact that he
was seven and nineteen, he had twenty touchdowns and thirty
six picks. And when he played Philadelphia he was a pinata.
I mean, they were just beating on him, but you
(13:44):
know what, they knew his talent and they stuck with him.
At one point in year three, Steve Berlin replaced him
when he got banged up, and I mean, you couldn't
tell at the time are they going to move on
with Burlin? Was a Notre Dame guy. I think Burlin
was kind of a fiery leader, and Johnson liked that,
and Jimmy was cutting guys left and right, and You're like, man,
(14:05):
this thing could go sideways fast. It wasn't until Troygman
got an aquarium and Jimmy came over with some Heinekens
and they sat down and talked fish and not the
band talked actual fish. That they got along. So it
was a different world and it should be was seven
on seven camps. The coaching is better offensively. I think
(14:28):
the Colts shouldn't move on from Anthony Richardson. I respected
Arizona and Steve Kime. Moving off from Josh Rosen for
Kyler Murray, I probably would have done the same thing.
I get that. The difference with Tayleb Williams, though, is
a He's more talented than those guys and b. Chicago's
never had a great quarterback unless you count like didn
(14:50):
Sid Luckman play in Chicago I think, yeah, the guy's
name Sid. It was probably in the thirties or forties,
so Green Bay. The Packers, just a train ride north,
have twice drafted a quarterback in the first round and
sat him for three years. So they're the ultimate impatience.
But there's an argument to be made that you just
(15:13):
have to make Ben Johnson and Caleb Williams work. There's
an argument that make it work because for the first
time that I can remember, the Bears actually got a
coach that other people in the league wanted. They usually
settle at head coach, and they usually overdraft quarterbacks.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
Now.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
You can look at Jayden Daniels and bow Nicks now,
but a lot of people most people at Caleb Williams
number one. So the two most important people in the
NFL to winning quarterback one coach two and my entire life.
The Bears settled at head coach, mostly an overdrafted quarterback,
and this time they didn't. They didn't settle. They got
(16:00):
the coach everybody wanted. He was a hot shot, best
offensive coordinator in the league. Several years they got him.
He turned down other teams. The Bears got him an
offensive coach and Caleb Williams has superstar potential. What transpires,
we'll see. But there is an argument that in a
(16:21):
Josh Rosen case, or in a Mitch Trubisky case, or in
an Anthony Richardson case, you should be more decisive than
you used to be in the Troy Aikman era, and
I am in that camp. But there's an argument just
stick it out, just make it work. There's gonna be
(16:42):
bad days, but you've never had a four thousand yard passer.
Get it right. Just figure it out, and we're gonna
be patient for the remainder of your contract. For Ben Johnson,
remainder of the contract, Caleb, remainder of the contract. We're
giving you four years. Figure it out. We know so
stylistically you're kind of different. We're sticking with it. We're
(17:04):
going to be the most patient team in the league.
If it looks rocky through two years. Albert Breer went
to the Bears camp. Here's what he saw with Caleb.
Speaker 8 (17:13):
The day I was there, Caleb Williams looked terrible.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
There's no better.
Speaker 8 (17:16):
There's no sugarcoating in What Ben Johnson and his staff
were trying to do with Caleb was let's feed him
through a fire hose in the spring and an early
in training camp, and let's see what he can handle,
and let's see what he's good at, and let's see
what he's not good at, and let's.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
See how he learns.
Speaker 8 (17:31):
Let's see how he takes those early lumps and is
able to compartmentalize them. And then over the course of camp,
the hope was that they would get a more resilient
player who's playing faster, and as coaches, they would get
a better idea of what he was best at, so
they could build an offense based on that.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Just saying they're playing against the Chiefs in the preseason,
they'll probably win, could be winning again like Buffalo decisively.
They need the snaps because they got to make this work.
John Middlecoff of the News.
Speaker 5 (18:05):
On the News, this is the herd Line News.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Okay, Colin, we're starting to get some good news out
of RAMS camp. Matt Stafford was able to practice and
full during yesterday's practice, a day after making his training
camp debut on Monday due to a back issue. McVeigh
said that Stafford looked good and has taken steps in
the right direction, but he also stayed cautious and avoided
any major declarations about his Week one availability. Are we
(18:30):
sure Colin that the uh Matt Stafford situation is on
the up and up? Or is this a back issue
that's gonna we're gonna have to monitor by the day.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Well, I mean, if if you told me over under
on Jimmy Garoppolo playing one and a half games, I'd
probably take the over. Like I could see, Here's what
I could see, John. I don't know what the Rams
schedule looks like, but if wherever the Rams buy is,
I could absolutely see McVeigh saying, you know what, here's
a two week stretch. Matt, takeoff, two weeks of practice,
(19:03):
and the game after the bye, play Garoppolo. So Jimmy's
got two weeks to prepare. So the buye is in
week eight, I can see. I could absolutely see after
the game you're at Baltimore at Jaguars, good pass rushes
that McVeigh says, I'm not gonna play you, Matt until
the at the Niners game division rival in week ten,
(19:26):
buy and Saints. I'm giving that to Garoppolo because the
Saints are arguably the weakest team in the league. So
after you play teams with pass Rushes and Baltimore, Jacksonville,
San Francisco, Bosa. I think what they're gonna do is
fine moments. I also think if this team's defense creates
some blowouts, Garoppolo takes fourth quarter snaps, That's not the
(19:48):
way it works in the NFL. But I can see them, basically,
John taking a very measured and specific approach with Matt
give him snaps off if you can.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
My question is this, I think the Texans are going
to have one of, if not the best defense in
the league, and they got a real pass rush. Same
thing with the Titans and same thing with the Eagles.
Those first three games, it's inevitable he's gonna get hit,
and he's gonna get hit hard. I mean, it's kind
of his style, right. He stays in there, He hangs
in there is what makes him an elite player. And
the thing with the back, we've talked about this, Steve
(20:20):
Kerr couldn't coach with a bad back. Those get going.
You can't even stand up, let alone play NFL quarterback.
So this is going to be something to me that
worries McVeigh all season long. Colin's next dynasty. The Broncos
have gotten a lot of hype heading into the season,
with some picking them as the team to beat in
the AFC West over the Chiefs. Most of their success
(20:41):
last season could be attributed to the duo of Peyton
and bo Nicks, and Peyton discussed how the playbook has
evolved around his young quarterback.
Speaker 9 (20:50):
We've put it together in a way where instead of
calling twenty two flanker drive, halfback burst, you know, we might.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Just call it uber oh okach driver.
Speaker 9 (21:02):
These players are are operating and thinking differently and more spontaneously.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
There's an entirely new element to.
Speaker 9 (21:12):
The RPOs that he's comfortable with, that we're comfortable with
that we've researched and we developed those into the plan.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
So here my take. How many defensive coaches could sit
down and do that to the offensive playbook like Sean Payton.
If you don't think bo Nicks has an advantage over
other young quarterbacks having Sean Payton, we just redid the
playbook and shortened it and we're creative, and it's like
that is the advantage to having Cliff Kingsbury for Jaden Daniels,
who by the way, played quarterback in college. That's the
(21:46):
lane Kiffin. Your alma mater, Fresno State. When you play
the position, when you know the position, it is such
an advantage that in year two of his growth, we're
going to redo the playbook.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Well, what's the knock a lot on these young quarterbacks
in college is their playbook is so simplistic and the
verbiage is just one word. Well, the Sean Payton's, the
Peyton Mannings, the Kyle Shanahan's. You got to read a
book to call one play. What Sean Payton, We just
changed it. We just call it uber now and made
it easier on everyone, not even just the quarterback, but
(22:18):
the other players on the team. So to me, this
is evolving. I would imagine all the good offensive coaches
are doing this. You don't just need to be complicated
for the sake of being complicated. Well, it's about, you know,
being efficient and executing and scoring touchdowns.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Well. The other thing is between Courtland Sutton, they really
love mimes. And there's a story I saw yesterday that
the Oregon receiver in year two of Troy Franklin. Ye,
think about this, John, If you think your personnel is better,
deception doesn't become as crucial. I mean, take Philadelphia take Detroit. Yeah,
(22:54):
we like our guys. We're gonna run the ball with
Jamir Gibbs on third and three. Try to stop us.
I do think when you get a rookie and there's
some deception, you're trying to give the rookie space and time.
But I think Peyton may look at his personnel and go,
you know, we can go toe to toe with Kansas City,
and our young players are developing offensively. If this Harvey
(23:15):
kids as good as everybody says the second round running back,
everybody loves this kid. I do think Pete Carroll once
told me this, the better players you have, you should
allow them to play as fast as they can. And
I think Denver looks at his roster now and thinks
we have a top five to six roster in elite.
Speaker 7 (23:32):
You know.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Speaking to Pete Carroll, I think, if you like the Broncos,
and I know you do, I do as well. Their
comp might be that early Russell Wilson Seattle team, Marshawn
Lynch the defense, and then Russell made plays here and there,
and as the season went on he got a lot better.
That to me is their comp. Okay, another team that
came on last year kind of out of nowhere. The Commanders.
They had an incredible season last year, surprising everyone. No
(23:54):
one saw that coming, and they lost the Eagles obviously
in the NFC Championship game. But Jade Daniel and Terry
mclaurin's chemistry was a big factor for the success. But
the wide receiver, he's obviously in the middle of a
hold in and looking for a new deal. McLaurin is
reportedly looking to land a thirty three million dollars a
year deal in his next contract and wants a deal
(24:14):
similar to Dk Metcalf. Colin, Do the Commanders and Terry
McLaurin need to come to terms just for the sake
of Jayden Daniels.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Well, you know it's it's funny about this. I don't
think Adam Peters in Washington should have to pay any
player based on a mistake by another team. I thought
the Steelers. I mean, DK Metcalf is the most penalized
receiver since the end of the league. He can be
a bit temperamental. He's a tremendous athlete and I've met
(24:46):
him and like him. But if you told me today,
I get McLaurin or DK Metcalf for three years. I
would actually take Terry mcclaugh one hundred percent because he's
just he fits its low maintenance. He's got great hands.
He I think he runs a greater route tree. I
would take Terry McLaurin. So that's always been an interesting
thing to me. Fox shouldn't have to pay me what
(25:09):
somebody else at another company makes if they view the
contract as unrealistic. Now that's certainly gonna be their argument,
but I've always understood that for teams like, Okay, the
Steelers paid this for Metcalf, that's their problem. They they
don't know what they're doing. Offensively, I would have no
problem paying him in the twenty eight to thirty million.
Put that guys. Put the graphic up again of what
(25:32):
receivers are getting paid. So I would take Terry McLaurin.
I would not take him over Jamar Chase or Justin Jefferson.
I don't think he's as dynamic as CD Lamb, but
I would pay him more than DK Metcalf, Garrett Wilson.
So I look at this, I think he's in the
omor On Saint Brown class.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
I think I think where it gets complicated is there's
an I was told this this offseason with TJ. Watt,
I'm like, do you think that Steeler would trade him?
They said, even if they thought about it from a
financial standpoint, He's the heartbeat and the leadership of the team.
He's the team captain, not the quarterback TJ. Watt with
the Steelers. That's kind of been McLaurin on the Commanders. Now,
(26:12):
Adam Peters might say, well, Jayden Daniels rookie year, he's
shifted now he's the go to guy. And typically DK
Metcalf John Schneider, widely viewed as one of the best
gms in the league, did not want to give him
a third contract. I know DK asked for a trade,
but they're like, yeah, sure, seea you know, usually these
older wide receivers. This is Tate Terry mclaurin's third contract,
(26:33):
and at the end of the day, Adam Peters and
Dan Quinn, I'm sure they really like him. They didn't
draft him. He's not their guy, so they're probably open
to a lot of different ideas. It's a predicament. It's
not a to me. It's a tough situation. Both sides
get where Terry's coming from, and I can understand the
Washington front office going, is this where we want to
invest a lot of our rookie cap space because of
(26:56):
Jaden's contract moving forward?
Speaker 1 (26:58):
You know John Think you know you're a former NFL scout.
You know Andy Reid. When they brought in Deebo Samuel,
I liked the move because I thought stylistically and for
a young quarterback, he's a chess piece for sure, and
I think young quarterbacks and Cliff Kingsbury will know how
to use a chess piece. What I didn't think about
was how it would land for Terry McLaurin. Maybe, and
(27:19):
McLaurin looked at it and thought, that's fine. But you
do get on the number one like he's the two.
He's the chess piece. You don't have to use me
as a chess piece. I can break guys down and
get open. I run better, I'm healthier, I'm more productive.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Well, and that's the problem. The amount of money Debo's
making this year, so the last year of his contract,
and Terry McLaurin is said to make, is basically the same.
So these are human beings. Terry goes wait, I scored
thirteen touchdowns here last year. This was your guy in
San Francisco, who peaked three years ago, and we're making
the same money. In any line of work, money's all relative.
(27:51):
It would tick that guy off. So I understand it
was a bold move by Adam Peters. I understood it.
I kind of liked it. I think you're getting to
motivated Deebo Samuel. I do think that impacted Terry McLaurin
when he just looked at I'm not making the same
as this guy this year.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
And his conduct. McLaurin was better than the former owner's content.
So mclaurin's like the whole operation was a circus. I
was the adult in the organization. The owner was inappropriate.
I was the good guy. That does have value to me.
I think beyond his production, the second most leveraged Terry
(28:27):
McLaurin has is him the human being.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Totally.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
This has been a tire fire a has Matt spill
up a franchise, And he was the guy who were like,
what a professional, what a grown up? He's just every
day he's just punching the cards, showing up for work. Absolutely,
that has value in any industry, agreed John Middlecoff of
The News, Well, that's the.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
News, and thanks for stopping that the herd line, you know.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Especially, It's like I understand back in the seventies and
eighties if Rockstar trashed hotel rooms, right, But if you
didn't and you didn't cost me as a manager like
forty grand every rich Carlon you stayed at, there's value
in that too, being a grown up, even if you
(29:14):
don't quite sell as many tickets to the concert, being
lower maintenance, being an adult. Not everybody's Taylor Swift, Not
everybody was Van Halen in the eighties, and not everybody
is Randy Moss talented. So if you're omar on Saint
Brown is really good, total adult, total grown up, great
(29:35):
route tree, mentor in the locker room, unbelievable film room
better every week, like you don't have to be. I mean,
there's like one Justin Jefferson on the planet. There was
one Jerry Rice, one Calvin Johnson and Randy Moss below that.
How you behave matters. I know, it shouldn't it wide receiver,
(29:56):
it does. I'd pay Terry McLaurin because I like the
human omor On Saint Brown to me at thirty million,
I'd argue he's underpaid. I mean, outside of Penay Seoul.
I mean like, like, that's the heartbeat of the offense
to me, not the quarterback. All right, is it possible
(30:17):
quarterback is undervalued in the NFL? Thoughts on that next.
Speaker 5 (30:23):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in noon Easter not a Empacific.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
You know, I love when players are brutally honest. Quentin Nelson, Colts.
Chris Baller drafted him years ago, and you know people
are like, whoa, whoa, whoa interior offensive lineman. The guy's
a stud, he's a leader, he's a stud. And I
was just thinking about this. I honestly believe quarterback in
(30:51):
the NFL is undervalued, underpaid, and underrated. And I know
that sounds crazy, but I want you listen from an
offensive lineman's perspective, because the Colts are now on their
eleventh starting quarterback since Andrew Luck, who I love but
(31:14):
hosed them, retired right before the season. Now again, guys
can retire when they want to retire. Timing wasn't great,
but he was in pain, and we all understood at
the time. You got to take care of your body,
your family. But listen to Quentin Nelson's perspective of what
(31:35):
has happened to the Colts at quarterback total honesty.
Speaker 10 (31:41):
You know, you look around the league and see just
like the consistency of having like Patrick Mahomes or like
quarterback behind you that's been the franchise player for years
and years and years and getting to build that chemistry
with that quarterback year after years, something that there is
(32:03):
an advantage to.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Yeah, you ever notice the Travis Kelcey and Mahomes or
Brady and Edelman and Gronk on those third and fourth downs.
It's like they can read each other's mind because they can, right,
I mean when you watch these great connections between the
quarterback and the receiver. Yeah, jeffs Saturday and Peyton Manning
(32:27):
center quarterback for years. It's like those guys, they Jeff
Saturday and Peyton Manning two smart guys. They knew what
each other was thinking. When Ray Lewis is sneaking up
on the line, they know exactly what the other is
gonna do. Like there are just I feel bad for
the Colts, And I've said this thing about this, This
is why I think quarterbacks undervalue. Think about all the
(32:50):
good players the Cleveland Browns in recent years, have drafted
Nick Chubb, Miles Garrett, Denzel Ward David and Joku. The
guard Joel Bittonio tremendous guard. They have hit on. They
built a great offensive line. They stole Nick Chubb in
the second round. They can't get quarterback right and they
(33:12):
may have the worst team in the league now they're
gotta keep four quarterbacks. None great Houston. The McNair ownership
was arguably the bleakest ownership situation in the league. They
were the three previous years before c J. Stroud landed there.
This is nothing against the Miko Ryans, but the three
(33:33):
years before c J. Stroud losing his franchise in the
league dead last people last year like they took a
step back. I don't know, maybe your TV doesn't work
mine us. They made the playoffs in the AFC. That
was a down year for Houston.
Speaker 8 (33:52):
C J.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Stroud the Packers have been consistent for thirty years. There
is one reason, because none of you like Mike McCarthy.
They're always going to quarterback. I mean, the Tampa Bay
Bucks went seventeen years, seventeen with a lot of good
players without winning a playoff game. Got Brady's Super Bowl,
got Baker playoffs. I think quarterback is undervalued. I have
(34:16):
said that. I think analytics can be overvalued by the nerds.
I think three point shots are great over the course
of a regular season, but I don't think the statistics
work in the playoffs. Where in the NBA, mid range
jumpers and physical play matter in the playoffs. In baseball analytics,
(34:38):
what are you kidding? In baseball playoffs, you'll bring a
starter out of the bullpen. I mean, it's just baseball
and basketball playoffs are different. In the NFL, I don't
care what the analytics say. If Andrew Luck had been
able to get healthy, this team would have been a
super Bowl team. I mean, I would trade the Colt
roster for the Bengals today, especially o line, run game,
(35:02):
head coach. I would trade the Colts and the Bengals
roster today. I looked at the NFL odds on the Bengals,
people are like, you know, they got a shot. It's
not the roster, it's not the defense, it's not the
run game. The head coach is okay, owners bad. Joe
Burrow is single handedly has them in the Super Bowl bubble.
So I mean the commanders, I mean, I really like
(35:26):
dan Quinn. Dan Quinn with Sam Hollett quarterback is not
getting to the NFC Championship. So you can talk about
analytics all you want in sports, it's just a quarterback.
And that's why I have defended the Indianapolis Colts on
the eleven quarterbacks. If Andrew Luck had retired even mid
(35:47):
season Thanksgiving or right after the season, okay, Ballard and
the guys in the front office can figure it out.
But retiring right before the season, I'd actually argue the
Colts have done a fairly remarkable job. They got Carson Wentz,
who had twenty seven touchdown seven picks, was actually successful
erst they didn't want him. Philip Rivers won eleven games,
was successful. I mean, actually, there's been moments with Joe
(36:11):
Flacco and Philip Rivers and Carson Wentz where you're like, man,
they got thrown into a tough spot. And so the
Anthony Richardson pick I talked to Chris Powder. They know
it wasn't perfect. Everybody kind of knew he had thirteen
college stars. He wasn't accurate in high school or college.
(36:32):
They knew that what they are hoping was we got
Shane Siken and Shane makes everybody great. I mean, Jalen
Hurt's second round pick looked like the best quarterback.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
In the league.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
You're like, wow, So if Shane Stiken can't get this
to work, it's not gonna work. It's like when Kyle
Shanahan's like, I'm gonna give up on Trey Lance. Okay,
that told you right there.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
He's not a starter.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Doesn't mean he can't make the league. Good kid. Doesn't
mean Anthony Richardson can't stand in the league. Good kid.
But when a quarterback whisperer says, yeah, that's not work.
It's when McVeigh went and got Baker Mayfield. It's like,
wait a minute, mcveigh's into Baker Mayfield. That told me, okay,
Baker Baker can play. Baker's gonna get He's gonna get
a second.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Or third act.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
When, by the way, when Kyle Shanahan went and got
Sam Donald, I don't need you to start, but I
really like you that. I knew McVeigh like Donald, Shanahan
liked Sam Donald, Kevin O'Connell like Sam Donald. I knew that,
especially Shanahan and Kevin O'Connell, they really like Donald, so
I knew he could play. I knew he could play.
(37:33):
So I mean, this situation with the Colts is quarterback
is undervalued. You have to have one. And so I'm
going to defend people when they take swings because they're
trapped because they had the late great Jim Mersey was
incredibly impulsive, especially at the end. I mean, it's we
(37:54):
were talking about this during the break. I feel the
same way about quarterbacks. You have a quarterback. I mean,
look at the Kansas City Chiefs receiving corps the last
three years. Guys are getting in trouble off the field.
They got gadget guys they have. I mean, Brett Veach
doesn't whiff a lot, some sky More whiffs. There's Rashi
(38:15):
Rice problems, Xavier Worthy's kind of a gadget guy, and
Mahomes makes it work. I mean they really they have
receivers a hard position to draft. There's a lot of
immaturity at times. They've missed on some wide receiver picks,
like miss badly, and they don't miss badly on much,
but everybody misses on wide receiver picks. The Packers, the Chiefs,
(38:36):
the e By the way, Howie Roseman's the best GM
in the league. Remember the kid they took John out
of the first round out of TCU Reaga, reagor whiff.
That didn't work for a first round pick. He bounced
around the league. So that is an incredibly difficult position
to draft wide receiver. I mean, we like John Lynch
and we like Kyle Shannon. They've missed on wide receiver picks.
(38:58):
So I guess my point is I'm defending the Colts
because I think the position is actually underappreciated relative to wins.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
Do you know what I think we've learned and we've
seen it now with Trey Lance, and we've seen it
with Anthony Richardson your parcels celebrity quarterback. I agree all
these guys are celebrities. But he was big on the
number of starts you made in college. And when you
look around the NFL, even the top guys, you know, Burrow,
multiple year starter, Mahomes played forever. But let's go the
young guys. Jalen Hurst Alabama, Oklahoma a ton of starts,
(39:29):
Purty four years, Iowa State, dak Prescott a ton of
reps and Missippi the reps in college at whatever level
you're at matter. Anthony Richardson Trey Lance barely played Shocker.
They were over their head when they missed Trubisky one
year starter awful, right, so to me, because you can't
(39:50):
the larger the sample size is, it's harder to hide.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Yeah, And I also think so much of it's like golf,
it's just wings. You just have to spend so much
time at the driving range. So you have to be
able to grab a club like a Phil Mickelson. And
he knows. I mean, if you read the articles written
about Phil mckolson on his club choice, in his understanding
(40:15):
of his game, he knows to the yard what every
club does. He knows what it does in the morning,
he knows what it does in humidity. Phil Mickolson knows
to the yard his club's high elevation desert, moist air,
dry air. And that's just reps that you know. Sixteen
(40:35):
year old golfer knows that. And so when you're playing college,
like I've said about Jackson Dart, if you start for
three years under Lane Kiffin's offense, you are ready to
play in the NFL because Lane's gonna put heat on you.
And by the way, Jackson had some bad starts like
the Florida game. I'm like I'm out. But you know what,
like he got the.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Reps, isn't that good? You know? Patrick Mahomes struggled a lot,
Brock Purty struggle a lot. Josh Allen, they went into
all these games, they lost a lot of games. They
knew what it was like. Anthony Richson thirteen career starts
gets to the Colts who have the other thing Trey
Lance and Anthony Richardson have in common. They went to
teams with playoff aspirations. You didn't get to go to
the Jags where it's like, oh, we win six games, great,
(41:18):
you better win ten or like Antony, I don't know
if Anthony Richinson is on the team in two weeks, Colin,
I don't know if you can get benched in this situation.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Stay.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
I would not be stunned at all if he's traded,
not for much, but in the next couple of weeks
to a team heck, like a McVeigh and Andy Reid
just bringing me, let me work with him, and gets
you for nothing. Uh.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Carson Palmer is joining us, the three time pro bowler.
Next second Hour coming up,
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Here we go. It's Wednesday. We are live. We're in Chicago.
It is The Herd. Wherever you may be and however
you may be watching or listening. Thanks for making us
part of your day. John Middlecoff and I here again
in tow So. I sat last night. John and I
watched several episodes of the Jerry Jones Netflix special The
(00:47):
Gambler America's team, highly entertaining. Took a few notes. I
know that's door key, but I had to take some
notes here, and it is wild. First of all, it's
another example. We saw this for the Last Dance with
Michael Jordans and we see this with Jerry. When you're
when you're creating something special, even if you're Michael Jordan
(01:10):
or you have Jimmy Johnson and Trougman, it's hard. It's really,
really hard for Michael Jordan all those years getting tackled
by the Pistons and the Celtics. But I want to
I want to start John with what was and what
is with the Dallas Cowboys. So let's start with that.
So I read a story this morning Micah Parsons and
the Cowboys headed towards a divorce and a messy contract sagam.
(01:33):
So I'm watching that Netflix special last night, and what
is remarkable at Jerry Jones At that point it was
almost broke. He spent every penny on the Dallas Cowboys.
Jimmy Johnson told me that. I mean, he spent every
penny on the Cowboys and after the first year they
didn't know if they were gonna make it was he
gonna have to sell the team. But he was so
aggressive and so decisive and had such a clear plan.
(01:54):
Jerry Jones did that. It all worked. He would He
got Apeman and Jimmy Johnson and Emmet's and Michael Irvin
and Dave wants that. And he was patient and Jerry's
still patient, sometimes too much. But what you noticed with
that Jerry is the aggressiveness, the decisiveness. He made strong,
(02:15):
swift decisions, The herschel Walker trade and never looked back.
That's not the Cowboys today, where the Dak Prescott or
Micah Parsons contracts in golf camp, in golf the team.
And as I was watching that, I thought, you know what,
you know who the Dallas Cowboys of that era are.
(02:39):
They're the Philadelphia Eagles. Now. The Eagles have a brand.
The Eagles have the most aggressive GM. The Eagles occasionally
make mistakes, rarely with but they're decisive. They don't look back.
If they make a move and they don't like it,
they move off it. Carson Wentz immediately, they move off
(03:00):
coaches who win Super Bowls if it's not a good
fit today decisive push push Saquon Barkley deal. The Eagles
today are the Cowboys. In the Netflix special, Dallas now
is reactive. Dallas then was proactive. Philadelphia now proactive. They
(03:20):
made a deal three days ago. They're always making deals.
And yet the Micah Parsons contract saga appears it's not
going to end. Well, you knew he was an All
Pro as a rookie. Do what the Eagles do, sign
him early or trade him and get a fortune. But
the Dak I saw a headline this morning, The Cowboys
(03:42):
negotiating tactics have probably cost them approximately one hundred million dollars.
Think about this. Dak Prescott's cap hit currently is bigger
than aj Brown, Saquon Barkley, and Jalen Hurts combined. They
don't get deals anymore. Philadelphia gets deal. Philadelphia is always
making moves. Philadelphia is decisive. Philadelphia's got a running play
(04:06):
they invented that used to be Jerry Remember when he
pushed back on the NFL and like a Pepsi deal
in the NFL wanted to sue him. And I mean,
Jerry just he just didn't herschel Walker move, Buy this oil, well,
buy this football team, fire tech, shram fire, the late
great Tom Landry didn't pause. That's business one hundred miles
(04:29):
an hour. And Jerry knew as an oil catter a
maverick that you're not going to go one hundred for
one hundred. But it didn't stop him. Now there's video
out there him acknowledging, Yeah, I don't have the guts
to do what the Rams did with Golf and Stafford.
I could not do that, young Jerry could. I strongly
(04:49):
suggest you watch it because I just couldn't stop thinking
those Cowboys, that's the Eagles now cut of the envy
of the league. We all go like, get a little
crazy up in Philadelphia. I don't know if Nick Sirianni's
the guy. That's what they were saying about Jimmy Johnson
first couple of years. He's crazy. Jimmy Johnson, guy's crazy, crazy, smart.
(05:14):
So I mean it just it was amazing to watch
how charismatic the Cowboys were and how they lack an
identity today. I don't even know what they are. But Jerry,
and he has always been a showman. His dad was
cool story. He is on the red carpet for this show.
(05:36):
For Jerry, the one thing that remains a constant, he
knows the lights are on and he wants to perform.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
I do believe if we're not being looked at, then.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
I'll do my part to get a slipped at.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Oh. It's wonderful to have the great athletes, have the
great players shoot, but there's something more were there. There's sizzled,
there's emotion, and if you will, there's controversy. That controversy
is good stuff in terms of keeping and having people's attention.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, we're watching you got our attention. We just don't
like the results, all right. So I haven't talked to
Aaron Rodgers for a few days. It's about time. It's Wednesday.
So Aaron Rodgers is not going to play in the
preseason finale. I'm okay with it. He's sitting the preseason
for second straight year. He's not planned. But it's a
(06:32):
little different this year because if you look at the
early schedule for Pittsburgh first game, Aaron Glenn defensive guy, Jets,
next game, Mike McDonald Seahawks third game, Mike Vrabel defensive guy,
fourth game. Best defensive coordinator in the league in my opinion,
(06:54):
Brian Flores. And he's not taking a preseason snap. He
had an abbreviated off season, so he's never taken a
stab snap with DK Metcalf, he's never taken a live
stap with Arthur Smith. PFF rates the offensive line at
twenty first and for whatever reason, blame who will you want?
The Steelers have not consistently run the ball for about
(07:15):
six years, maybe eight, and that's Aaron's reality. So I
do think Pittsburgh needs to get off to a hot
start because in Aaron Rodgers' career. There has always been
been one statistic. There has always been one statistic that
is hard to figure out. Aaron Rodgers has the sixth
(07:40):
most quarterback starts of all time, yet he is tied
for twenty fifth in fourth quarter comebacks Peyton Manning forty three,
Marino Elway in the thirties. He has few or than
Derek Carr, Ryan Tannehill, Andy Dalton Well. His teams didn't
(08:05):
trail a lot, did Peyton Mannings, did Marino in Elway's
So why does Aaron need to start quickly? Because I've
always used that stat and it belies what I've always
thought to be true. Aaron's personality changes based on the
(08:25):
score and his performance in games. One of the things
I loved about Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck, Patrick Mahomes, and
Tom Brady they do not give a rip. If they've
got two pick six's in the first quarter, they'll play
their arsof they are fox hole guys, they are ballers.
They don't care. In game performance does not change their personality.
(08:49):
Sometimes I'd watch Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning after a
really bad pick and I'd be like, guys may scale
back a little on the aggressiveness Peyton was. That's not
who Andrew Luck was. Aaron's different. Aaron gets dark, he
gets moody, his demeanor changes, his facial expressions change, He'll
(09:10):
throw the ball away. He in game pouts. That's what
describes in otherwise inexplicable stat twenty fifth all time in
fourth quarter comebacks. He's got the six most stars. Is
that if Aaron's not playing well, he's trailing late, he
kind of bails. And if you look at this schedule,
(09:33):
this schedule is defense, defense, defense, defense, elite defensive coaches,
and he's never taken a live snap with DK Metcalf,
Arthur Smith. It's not a good old line. So I'm
not saying he should play it. I don't have a
problem with him not playing, but I didn't love the
(09:53):
abbreviated off season, and I don't love it. Forty one
years old, he no longer has the talent to mediocre teammates,
and Pittsburgh offensively has got to mediocre guys. So Mike
Mike Tomlin says he's totally comfortable with Aaron Rodgers not
taking a snap in the preseason.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
Uncomfortable with what I'm seeing out here. Obviously, if I weren't,
I would be playing. Everyone else is under consideration. They're
preparing as if they're going to play. There are a
lot of variables in it. Who's playing for Carolina and
things of that nature that might provide worthy competition. But
as I sit here today, all healthy outside of the
fort that I mentioned are preparing and scheduled to play.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Forty one year old shaky o line, no run game,
never taken live snaps in the game with the OC
or DK metcalf And by the way, Aaron's a good
looking guy, and I have said before the league is
more interesting with Aaron Rodgers playing than not playing. I
don't think Pittsburgh's a good fit. I didn't necessarily think
(10:59):
the Jets was a good deep down. I was rooting
for him to go to Minnesota or San Francisco, but
the Niners, like Brock Purty and JJ McCarthy was drafted,
so it didn't happen. But I'll say one thing that
cannot be the last helmet he wears. If you're watching
me on television, you see this picture. That helmet is
(11:19):
so outsized. I can see the shadows inside the helmet.
He looks like a small plane. Parked in a Delta hangar.
Somebody get that helmet fixed for Aaron Rodgers. See that
thing right behind me? That cannot be the last picture
of Aaron Rodgers. Tighten it up, Steelers. You can't get
(11:39):
the run game right, at least get the helmet right
for Aaron Rodgers. Okay, John I yesterday we had some
fun on the show where we took the Bear schedule.
I tried to be optimistic and I said, life's about happiness,
is about expectations. So if you really look at the
schedule for the Bears, if they go nine to eight,
(12:02):
you should actually come out of the season and feel
pretty darn good. That probably means you split with your division.
We're gonna do that with another team today, and we're
not gonna be as positive because this is my going
downhill fast franchise. So don't go anywhere. We've got a
lot going on today. In an update with Caleb Williams
(12:24):
and the.
Speaker 5 (12:24):
Bears, be sure to catch live editions of The Herd
Weekdays and Noone Easter nine am Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 6 (12:34):
He's Mike Krmen, I'm Dan Bayern. We have a fantasy
football podcast called I Want Your Flex.
Speaker 5 (12:39):
That's right, Dan.
Speaker 7 (12:40):
Every week we're gonna scour the waiver wire to find
the pickups to turbo boost your fantasy lineup, sit starts,
fantasy football players rankings to get you ready to dominate
the competition.
Speaker 6 (12:52):
Listen to I Want Your Flex with Mike Carmon and
meet Dan Byer on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts and
wherever you bet your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
All Right, it's been reported Caleb Williams other Bear starters
will play in the preseason finale against the Kansas City Chiefs.
I am for that in most instances, I do like
young quarterbacks taking snaps. So going back to watching the
Cowboys special last night, he just I mean, you just
(13:21):
forget how much patient we patients we used to have
with quarterbacks. Troy Aikman just got that, you know what,
kicked out of him for two and a half years
his first two seasons starting forget the fact that he
was seven and nineteen, he had twenty touchdowns and thirty
six picks. And when he played Philadelphia he was a pinata.
I mean, they were just beating on him, but you
(13:44):
know what, they knew his talent and they stuck with him.
At one point in year three, Steve Berlin replaced him
when he got banged up, and I mean, you couldn't
tell at the time are they going to move on
with Burlin? Was a Notre Dame guy. I think Burlin
was kind of a fiery leader, and Johnson liked that,
and Jimmy was cutting guys left and right, and You're like, man,
(14:05):
this thing could go sideways fast. It wasn't until Troygman
got an aquarium and Jimmy came over with some Heinekens
and they sat down and talked fish and not the
band talked actual fish. That they got along. So it
was a different world and it should be was seven
on seven camps. The coaching is better offensively. I think
(14:28):
the Colts shouldn't move on from Anthony Richardson. I respected
Arizona and Steve Kime. Moving off from Josh Rosen for
Kyler Murray, I probably would have done the same thing.
I get that. The difference with Tayleb Williams, though, is
a He's more talented than those guys and b. Chicago's
never had a great quarterback unless you count like didn
(14:50):
Sid Luckman play in Chicago I think, yeah, the guy's
name Sid. It was probably in the thirties or forties,
so Green Bay. The Packers, just a train ride north,
have twice drafted a quarterback in the first round and
sat him for three years. So they're the ultimate impatience.
But there's an argument to be made that you just
(15:13):
have to make Ben Johnson and Caleb Williams work. There's
an argument that make it work because for the first
time that I can remember, the Bears actually got a
coach that other people in the league wanted. They usually
settle at head coach, and they usually overdraft quarterbacks.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
Now.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
You can look at Jayden Daniels and bow Nicks now,
but a lot of people most people at Caleb Williams
number one. So the two most important people in the
NFL to winning quarterback one coach two and my entire life.
The Bears settled at head coach, mostly an overdrafted quarterback,
and this time they didn't. They didn't settle. They got
(16:00):
the coach everybody wanted. He was a hot shot, best
offensive coordinator in the league. Several years they got him.
He turned down other teams. The Bears got him an
offensive coach and Caleb Williams has superstar potential. What transpires,
we'll see. But there is an argument that in a
(16:21):
Josh Rosen case, or in a Mitch Trubisky case, or in
an Anthony Richardson case, you should be more decisive than
you used to be in the Troy Aikman era, and
I am in that camp. But there's an argument just
stick it out, just make it work. There's gonna be
(16:42):
bad days, but you've never had a four thousand yard passer.
Get it right. Just figure it out, and we're gonna
be patient for the remainder of your contract. For Ben Johnson,
remainder of the contract, Caleb, remainder of the contract. We're
giving you four years. Figure it out. We know so
stylistically you're kind of different. We're sticking with it. We're
(17:04):
going to be the most patient team in the league.
If it looks rocky through two years. Albert Breer went
to the Bears camp. Here's what he saw with Caleb.
Speaker 8 (17:13):
The day I was there, Caleb Williams looked terrible.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
There's no better.
Speaker 8 (17:16):
There's no sugarcoating in What Ben Johnson and his staff
were trying to do with Caleb was let's feed him
through a fire hose in the spring and an early
in training camp, and let's see what he can handle,
and let's see what he's good at, and let's see
what he's not good at, and let's.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
See how he learns.
Speaker 8 (17:31):
Let's see how he takes those early lumps and is
able to compartmentalize them. And then over the course of camp,
the hope was that they would get a more resilient
player who's playing faster, and as coaches, they would get
a better idea of what he was best at, so
they could build an offense based on that.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Just saying they're playing against the Chiefs in the preseason,
they'll probably win, could be winning again like Buffalo decisively.
They need the snaps because they got to make this work.
John Middlecoff of the News.
Speaker 5 (18:05):
On the News, this is the herd Line News.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Okay, Colin, we're starting to get some good news out
of RAMS camp. Matt Stafford was able to practice and
full during yesterday's practice, a day after making his training
camp debut on Monday due to a back issue. McVeigh
said that Stafford looked good and has taken steps in
the right direction, but he also stayed cautious and avoided
any major declarations about his Week one availability. Are we
(18:30):
sure Colin that the uh Matt Stafford situation is on
the up and up? Or is this a back issue
that's gonna we're gonna have to monitor by the day.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Well, I mean, if if you told me over under
on Jimmy Garoppolo playing one and a half games, I'd
probably take the over. Like I could see, Here's what
I could see, John. I don't know what the Rams
schedule looks like, but if wherever the Rams buy is,
I could absolutely see McVeigh saying, you know what, here's
a two week stretch. Matt, takeoff, two weeks of practice,
(19:03):
and the game after the bye, play Garoppolo. So Jimmy's
got two weeks to prepare. So the buye is in
week eight, I can see. I could absolutely see after
the game you're at Baltimore at Jaguars, good pass rushes
that McVeigh says, I'm not gonna play you, Matt until
the at the Niners game division rival in week ten,
(19:26):
buy and Saints. I'm giving that to Garoppolo because the
Saints are arguably the weakest team in the league. So
after you play teams with pass Rushes and Baltimore, Jacksonville,
San Francisco, Bosa. I think what they're gonna do is
fine moments. I also think if this team's defense creates
some blowouts, Garoppolo takes fourth quarter snaps, That's not the
(19:48):
way it works in the NFL. But I can see them, basically,
John taking a very measured and specific approach with Matt
give him snaps off if you can.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
My question is this, I think the Texans are going
to have one of, if not the best defense in
the league, and they got a real pass rush. Same
thing with the Titans and same thing with the Eagles.
Those first three games, it's inevitable he's gonna get hit,
and he's gonna get hit hard. I mean, it's kind
of his style, right. He stays in there, He hangs
in there is what makes him an elite player. And
the thing with the back, we've talked about this, Steve
(20:20):
Kerr couldn't coach with a bad back. Those get going.
You can't even stand up, let alone play NFL quarterback.
So this is going to be something to me that
worries McVeigh all season long. Colin's next dynasty. The Broncos
have gotten a lot of hype heading into the season,
with some picking them as the team to beat in
the AFC West over the Chiefs. Most of their success
(20:41):
last season could be attributed to the duo of Peyton
and bo Nicks, and Peyton discussed how the playbook has
evolved around his young quarterback.
Speaker 9 (20:50):
We've put it together in a way where instead of
calling twenty two flanker drive, halfback burst, you know, we might.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Just call it uber oh okach driver.
Speaker 9 (21:02):
These players are are operating and thinking differently and more spontaneously.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
There's an entirely new element to.
Speaker 9 (21:12):
The RPOs that he's comfortable with, that we're comfortable with
that we've researched and we developed those into the plan.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
So here my take. How many defensive coaches could sit
down and do that to the offensive playbook like Sean Payton.
If you don't think bo Nicks has an advantage over
other young quarterbacks having Sean Payton, we just redid the
playbook and shortened it and we're creative, and it's like
that is the advantage to having Cliff Kingsbury for Jaden Daniels,
who by the way, played quarterback in college. That's the
(21:46):
lane Kiffin. Your alma mater, Fresno State. When you play
the position, when you know the position, it is such
an advantage that in year two of his growth, we're
going to redo the playbook.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Well, what's the knock a lot on these young quarterbacks
in college is their playbook is so simplistic and the
verbiage is just one word. Well, the Sean Payton's, the
Peyton Mannings, the Kyle Shanahan's. You got to read a
book to call one play. What Sean Payton, We just
changed it. We just call it uber now and made
it easier on everyone, not even just the quarterback, but
(22:18):
the other players on the team. So to me, this
is evolving. I would imagine all the good offensive coaches
are doing this. You don't just need to be complicated
for the sake of being complicated. Well, it's about, you know,
being efficient and executing and scoring touchdowns.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Well. The other thing is between Courtland Sutton, they really
love mimes. And there's a story I saw yesterday that
the Oregon receiver in year two of Troy Franklin. Ye,
think about this, John, If you think your personnel is better,
deception doesn't become as crucial. I mean, take Philadelphia take Detroit. Yeah,
(22:54):
we like our guys. We're gonna run the ball with
Jamir Gibbs on third and three. Try to stop us.
I do think when you get a rookie and there's
some deception, you're trying to give the rookie space and time.
But I think Peyton may look at his personnel and go,
you know, we can go toe to toe with Kansas City,
and our young players are developing offensively. If this Harvey
(23:15):
kids as good as everybody says the second round running back,
everybody loves this kid. I do think Pete Carroll once
told me this, the better players you have, you should
allow them to play as fast as they can. And
I think Denver looks at his roster now and thinks
we have a top five to six roster in elite.
Speaker 7 (23:32):
You know.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Speaking to Pete Carroll, I think, if you like the Broncos,
and I know you do, I do as well. Their
comp might be that early Russell Wilson Seattle team, Marshawn
Lynch the defense, and then Russell made plays here and there,
and as the season went on he got a lot better.
That to me is their comp. Okay, another team that
came on last year kind of out of nowhere. The Commanders.
They had an incredible season last year, surprising everyone. No
(23:54):
one saw that coming, and they lost the Eagles obviously
in the NFC Championship game. But Jade Daniel and Terry
mclaurin's chemistry was a big factor for the success. But
the wide receiver, he's obviously in the middle of a
hold in and looking for a new deal. McLaurin is
reportedly looking to land a thirty three million dollars a
year deal in his next contract and wants a deal
(24:14):
similar to Dk Metcalf. Colin, Do the Commanders and Terry
McLaurin need to come to terms just for the sake
of Jayden Daniels.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Well, you know it's it's funny about this. I don't
think Adam Peters in Washington should have to pay any
player based on a mistake by another team. I thought
the Steelers. I mean, DK Metcalf is the most penalized
receiver since the end of the league. He can be
a bit temperamental. He's a tremendous athlete and I've met
(24:46):
him and like him. But if you told me today,
I get McLaurin or DK Metcalf for three years. I
would actually take Terry mcclaugh one hundred percent because he's
just he fits its low maintenance. He's got great hands.
He I think he runs a greater route tree. I
would take Terry McLaurin. So that's always been an interesting
thing to me. Fox shouldn't have to pay me what
(25:09):
somebody else at another company makes if they view the
contract as unrealistic. Now that's certainly gonna be their argument,
but I've always understood that for teams like, Okay, the
Steelers paid this for Metcalf, that's their problem. They they
don't know what they're doing. Offensively, I would have no
problem paying him in the twenty eight to thirty million.
Put that guys. Put the graphic up again of what
(25:32):
receivers are getting paid. So I would take Terry McLaurin.
I would not take him over Jamar Chase or Justin Jefferson.
I don't think he's as dynamic as CD Lamb, but
I would pay him more than DK Metcalf, Garrett Wilson.
So I look at this, I think he's in the
omor On Saint Brown class.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
I think I think where it gets complicated is there's
an I was told this this offseason with TJ. Watt,
I'm like, do you think that Steeler would trade him?
They said, even if they thought about it from a
financial standpoint, He's the heartbeat and the leadership of the team.
He's the team captain, not the quarterback TJ. Watt with
the Steelers. That's kind of been McLaurin on the Commanders. Now,
(26:12):
Adam Peters might say, well, Jayden Daniels rookie year, he's
shifted now he's the go to guy. And typically DK
Metcalf John Schneider, widely viewed as one of the best
gms in the league, did not want to give him
a third contract. I know DK asked for a trade,
but they're like, yeah, sure, seea you know, usually these
older wide receivers. This is Tate Terry mclaurin's third contract,
(26:33):
and at the end of the day, Adam Peters and
Dan Quinn, I'm sure they really like him. They didn't
draft him. He's not their guy, so they're probably open
to a lot of different ideas. It's a predicament. It's
not a to me. It's a tough situation. Both sides
get where Terry's coming from, and I can understand the
Washington front office going, is this where we want to
invest a lot of our rookie cap space because of
(26:56):
Jaden's contract moving forward?
Speaker 1 (26:58):
You know John Think you know you're a former NFL scout.
You know Andy Reid. When they brought in Deebo Samuel,
I liked the move because I thought stylistically and for
a young quarterback, he's a chess piece for sure, and
I think young quarterbacks and Cliff Kingsbury will know how
to use a chess piece. What I didn't think about
was how it would land for Terry McLaurin. Maybe, and
(27:19):
McLaurin looked at it and thought, that's fine. But you
do get on the number one like he's the two.
He's the chess piece. You don't have to use me
as a chess piece. I can break guys down and
get open. I run better, I'm healthier, I'm more productive.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Well, and that's the problem. The amount of money Debo's
making this year, so the last year of his contract,
and Terry McLaurin is said to make, is basically the same.
So these are human beings. Terry goes wait, I scored
thirteen touchdowns here last year. This was your guy in
San Francisco, who peaked three years ago, and we're making
the same money. In any line of work, money's all relative.
(27:51):
It would tick that guy off. So I understand it
was a bold move by Adam Peters. I understood it.
I kind of liked it. I think you're getting to
motivated Deebo Samuel. I do think that impacted Terry McLaurin
when he just looked at I'm not making the same
as this guy this year.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
And his conduct. McLaurin was better than the former owner's content.
So mclaurin's like the whole operation was a circus. I
was the adult in the organization. The owner was inappropriate.
I was the good guy. That does have value to me.
I think beyond his production, the second most leveraged Terry
(28:27):
McLaurin has is him the human being.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Totally.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
This has been a tire fire a has Matt spill
up a franchise, And he was the guy who were like,
what a professional, what a grown up? He's just every
day he's just punching the cards, showing up for work. Absolutely,
that has value in any industry, agreed John Middlecoff of
The News, Well, that's the.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
News, and thanks for stopping that the herd line, you know.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Especially, It's like I understand back in the seventies and
eighties if Rockstar trashed hotel rooms, right, But if you
didn't and you didn't cost me as a manager like
forty grand every rich Carlon you stayed at, there's value
in that too, being a grown up, even if you
(29:14):
don't quite sell as many tickets to the concert, being
lower maintenance, being an adult. Not everybody's Taylor Swift, Not
everybody was Van Halen in the eighties, and not everybody
is Randy Moss talented. So if you're omar on Saint
Brown is really good, total adult, total grown up, great
(29:35):
route tree, mentor in the locker room, unbelievable film room
better every week, like you don't have to be. I mean,
there's like one Justin Jefferson on the planet. There was
one Jerry Rice, one Calvin Johnson and Randy Moss below that.
How you behave matters. I know, it shouldn't it wide receiver,
(29:56):
it does. I'd pay Terry McLaurin because I like the
human omor On Saint Brown to me at thirty million,
I'd argue he's underpaid. I mean, outside of Penay Seoul.
I mean like, like, that's the heartbeat of the offense
to me, not the quarterback. All right, is it possible
(30:17):
quarterback is undervalued in the NFL? Thoughts on that next.
Speaker 5 (30:23):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in noon Easter not a Empacific.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
You know, I love when players are brutally honest. Quentin Nelson, Colts.
Chris Baller drafted him years ago, and you know people
are like, whoa, whoa, whoa interior offensive lineman. The guy's
a stud, he's a leader, he's a stud. And I
was just thinking about this. I honestly believe quarterback in
(30:51):
the NFL is undervalued, underpaid, and underrated. And I know
that sounds crazy, but I want you listen from an
offensive lineman's perspective, because the Colts are now on their
eleventh starting quarterback since Andrew Luck, who I love but
(31:14):
hosed them, retired right before the season. Now again, guys
can retire when they want to retire. Timing wasn't great,
but he was in pain, and we all understood at
the time. You got to take care of your body,
your family. But listen to Quentin Nelson's perspective of what
(31:35):
has happened to the Colts at quarterback total honesty.
Speaker 10 (31:41):
You know, you look around the league and see just
like the consistency of having like Patrick Mahomes or like
quarterback behind you that's been the franchise player for years
and years and years and getting to build that chemistry
with that quarterback year after years, something that there is
(32:03):
an advantage to.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Yeah, you ever notice the Travis Kelcey and Mahomes or
Brady and Edelman and Gronk on those third and fourth downs.
It's like they can read each other's mind because they can, right,
I mean when you watch these great connections between the
quarterback and the receiver. Yeah, jeffs Saturday and Peyton Manning
(32:27):
center quarterback for years. It's like those guys, they Jeff
Saturday and Peyton Manning two smart guys. They knew what
each other was thinking. When Ray Lewis is sneaking up
on the line, they know exactly what the other is
gonna do. Like there are just I feel bad for
the Colts, And I've said this thing about this, This
is why I think quarterbacks undervalue. Think about all the
(32:50):
good players the Cleveland Browns in recent years, have drafted
Nick Chubb, Miles Garrett, Denzel Ward David and Joku. The
guard Joel Bittonio tremendous guard. They have hit on. They
built a great offensive line. They stole Nick Chubb in
the second round. They can't get quarterback right and they
(33:12):
may have the worst team in the league now they're
gotta keep four quarterbacks. None great Houston. The McNair ownership
was arguably the bleakest ownership situation in the league. They
were the three previous years before c J. Stroud landed there.
This is nothing against the Miko Ryans, but the three
(33:33):
years before c J. Stroud losing his franchise in the
league dead last people last year like they took a
step back. I don't know, maybe your TV doesn't work
mine us. They made the playoffs in the AFC. That
was a down year for Houston.
Speaker 8 (33:52):
C J.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Stroud the Packers have been consistent for thirty years. There
is one reason, because none of you like Mike McCarthy.
They're always going to quarterback. I mean, the Tampa Bay
Bucks went seventeen years, seventeen with a lot of good
players without winning a playoff game. Got Brady's Super Bowl,
got Baker playoffs. I think quarterback is undervalued. I have
(34:16):
said that. I think analytics can be overvalued by the nerds.
I think three point shots are great over the course
of a regular season, but I don't think the statistics
work in the playoffs. Where in the NBA, mid range
jumpers and physical play matter in the playoffs. In baseball analytics,
(34:38):
what are you kidding? In baseball playoffs, you'll bring a
starter out of the bullpen. I mean, it's just baseball
and basketball playoffs are different. In the NFL, I don't
care what the analytics say. If Andrew Luck had been
able to get healthy, this team would have been a
super Bowl team. I mean, I would trade the Colt
roster for the Bengals today, especially o line, run game,
(35:02):
head coach. I would trade the Colts and the Bengals
roster today. I looked at the NFL odds on the Bengals,
people are like, you know, they got a shot. It's
not the roster, it's not the defense, it's not the
run game. The head coach is okay, owners bad. Joe
Burrow is single handedly has them in the Super Bowl bubble.
So I mean the commanders, I mean, I really like
(35:26):
dan Quinn. Dan Quinn with Sam Hollett quarterback is not
getting to the NFC Championship. So you can talk about
analytics all you want in sports, it's just a quarterback.
And that's why I have defended the Indianapolis Colts on
the eleven quarterbacks. If Andrew Luck had retired even mid
(35:47):
season Thanksgiving or right after the season, okay, Ballard and
the guys in the front office can figure it out.
But retiring right before the season, I'd actually argue the
Colts have done a fairly remarkable job. They got Carson Wentz,
who had twenty seven touchdown seven picks, was actually successful
erst they didn't want him. Philip Rivers won eleven games,
was successful. I mean, actually, there's been moments with Joe
(36:11):
Flacco and Philip Rivers and Carson Wentz where you're like, man,
they got thrown into a tough spot. And so the
Anthony Richardson pick I talked to Chris Powder. They know
it wasn't perfect. Everybody kind of knew he had thirteen
college stars. He wasn't accurate in high school or college.
(36:32):
They knew that what they are hoping was we got
Shane Siken and Shane makes everybody great. I mean, Jalen
Hurt's second round pick looked like the best quarterback.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
In the league.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
You're like, wow, So if Shane Stiken can't get this
to work, it's not gonna work. It's like when Kyle
Shanahan's like, I'm gonna give up on Trey Lance. Okay,
that told you right there.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
He's not a starter.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Doesn't mean he can't make the league. Good kid. Doesn't
mean Anthony Richardson can't stand in the league. Good kid.
But when a quarterback whisperer says, yeah, that's not work.
It's when McVeigh went and got Baker Mayfield. It's like,
wait a minute, mcveigh's into Baker Mayfield. That told me, okay,
Baker Baker can play. Baker's gonna get He's gonna get
a second.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Or third act.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
When, by the way, when Kyle Shanahan went and got
Sam Donald, I don't need you to start, but I
really like you that. I knew McVeigh like Donald, Shanahan
liked Sam Donald, Kevin O'Connell like Sam Donald. I knew that,
especially Shanahan and Kevin O'Connell, they really like Donald, so
I knew he could play. I knew he could play.
(37:33):
So I mean, this situation with the Colts is quarterback
is undervalued. You have to have one. And so I'm
going to defend people when they take swings because they're
trapped because they had the late great Jim Mersey was
incredibly impulsive, especially at the end. I mean, it's we
(37:54):
were talking about this during the break. I feel the
same way about quarterbacks. You have a quarterback. I mean,
look at the Kansas City Chiefs receiving corps the last
three years. Guys are getting in trouble off the field.
They got gadget guys they have. I mean, Brett Veach
doesn't whiff a lot, some sky More whiffs. There's Rashi
(38:15):
Rice problems, Xavier Worthy's kind of a gadget guy, and
Mahomes makes it work. I mean they really they have
receivers a hard position to draft. There's a lot of
immaturity at times. They've missed on some wide receiver picks,
like miss badly, and they don't miss badly on much,
but everybody misses on wide receiver picks. The Packers, the Chiefs,
(38:36):
the e By the way, Howie Roseman's the best GM
in the league. Remember the kid they took John out
of the first round out of TCU Reaga, reagor whiff.
That didn't work for a first round pick. He bounced
around the league. So that is an incredibly difficult position
to draft wide receiver. I mean, we like John Lynch
and we like Kyle Shannon. They've missed on wide receiver picks.
(38:58):
So I guess my point is I'm defending the Colts
because I think the position is actually underappreciated relative to wins.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
Do you know what I think we've learned and we've
seen it now with Trey Lance, and we've seen it
with Anthony Richardson your parcels celebrity quarterback. I agree all
these guys are celebrities. But he was big on the
number of starts you made in college. And when you
look around the NFL, even the top guys, you know, Burrow,
multiple year starter, Mahomes played forever. But let's go the
young guys. Jalen Hurst Alabama, Oklahoma a ton of starts,
(39:29):
Purty four years, Iowa State, dak Prescott a ton of
reps and Missippi the reps in college at whatever level
you're at matter. Anthony Richardson Trey Lance barely played Shocker.
They were over their head when they missed Trubisky one
year starter awful, right, so to me, because you can't
(39:50):
the larger the sample size is, it's harder to hide.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Yeah, And I also think so much of it's like golf,
it's just wings. You just have to spend so much
time at the driving range. So you have to be
able to grab a club like a Phil Mickelson. And
he knows. I mean, if you read the articles written
about Phil mckolson on his club choice, in his understanding
(40:15):
of his game, he knows to the yard what every
club does. He knows what it does in the morning,
he knows what it does in humidity. Phil Mickolson knows
to the yard his club's high elevation desert, moist air,
dry air. And that's just reps that you know. Sixteen
(40:35):
year old golfer knows that. And so when you're playing college,
like I've said about Jackson Dart, if you start for
three years under Lane Kiffin's offense, you are ready to
play in the NFL because Lane's gonna put heat on you.
And by the way, Jackson had some bad starts like
the Florida game. I'm like I'm out. But you know what,
like he got the.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Reps, isn't that good? You know? Patrick Mahomes struggled a lot,
Brock Purty struggle a lot. Josh Allen, they went into
all these games, they lost a lot of games. They
knew what it was like. Anthony Richson thirteen career starts
gets to the Colts who have the other thing Trey
Lance and Anthony Richardson have in common. They went to
teams with playoff aspirations. You didn't get to go to
the Jags where it's like, oh, we win six games, great,
(41:18):
you better win ten or like Antony, I don't know
if Anthony Richinson is on the team in two weeks, Colin,
I don't know if you can get benched in this situation.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Stay.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
I would not be stunned at all if he's traded,
not for much, but in the next couple of weeks
to a team heck, like a McVeigh and Andy Reid
just bringing me, let me work with him, and gets
you for nothing. Uh.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Carson Palmer is joining us, the three time pro bowler.
Next second Hour coming up,
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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