August 22, 2025 • 49 mins
Jason answers mailbag questions from Hoops Tonight listeners on topics including if Kevin Durant is enough of a boost to lift Amen Thompson, Alperen Sengun, and the Houston Rockets over the top compared to Nikola Jokic's Denver Nuggets & Shai Gilgeous Alexander's Oklahoma City Thunder. Then he discusses how he compares Los Angeles Lakers forward LeBron James and Cleveland Cavaliers guard Donovan Mitchell, how Bron and Steph Curry compare, as well as Stephen's impressive longevity for the Golden State Warriors.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
All right, welcome to hoopsina I here at the volume
Heavy Friday.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Everybody.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hope all of you guys had a great week. Got
a jam pack show for you guys today. It's Mailbag Today,
Mailbag Day, and we got so many good questions from
you guys. A lot of questions surrounding Kevin Durant and
the Houston Rockets some of their big picture potential this year.
I really want to do a deep dive into KD
and the Rockets today. After that, I got a couple
(00:38):
of really interesting questions surrounding Donovan Mitchell, including a question
as to whether or not Donovan should be ranked ahead
of a guy like Lebron. So we're gonna dig into
that a little bit. There's some big picture stuff with
like Lebron versus Steph in the recent history versus all time.
We've got questions surrounding some theoretical Los Angeles Lakers trades,
(00:59):
all sorts of interesting stuff to get into today. You
guys know the job before we get started. To subscribe
to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channel so you don't miss
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JCNLT So you guys don't miss show announcements, don't forget
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doing great work on our social media feeds on Twitter, Instagram,
Facebook and TikTok. Make sure you guys follow us there
(01:20):
and the last, but not least, if you want to
get a question into this mail bag, all you gotta
do is go to our full episodes on YouTube and
in the comments drop mail bag with a colon and
then write your question. You're gonna ask questions about absolutely
anything to get into the mail bag. We're also highlighting,
specifically in this series questions that are related to the
player rankings list. I'm gonna try to get to several
(01:42):
of those in here as well. So you disagree with
where I have a guy ranked. You think he's too high,
I think he's too low. Just tell me where you
think you should be ranked, explain why, give a little
elevator pitch, and we'll get into those debates in our
Friday mail bags as well. All right, let's talk some basketball.
So first question, I have been feeling that the Rockets
aren't real contenders for an overly simplistic reason. KD is
(02:06):
too old. When is the last time we saw a
player as old as KD be the best player on
a championship team. Lebron in twenty twenty was two years
younger than KD will be by next year's playoffs. You
have to go back over forty years to Careem Abdul
Jabbar in nineteen eighty five to find a guy at
least as old as KD is now so on a
championship team, and it's two guys are widely considered to
(02:28):
be two of the top three players of all time
in Lebron in Kareem Abdul Jabbar. I just don't see
KD being that third guy to accomplish this feat. But
is this too simplistic? Also, you don't have him ranked
as a top ten player, and it's exceedingly rare to
win a chip without a top ten player. So this
is actually a really interesting topic to me as it
pertains to the age of Kevin Durant. How much can
(02:52):
he help their offense really and is there any sort
of precedent for this sort of thing?
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Right?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
And I was actually getting in to the Rockets quite
a bit. I was having dinner over at Adam Mars's
house the other night. You know, he covers the Nuggets.
And we just moved up here to Denver, and Adam
and his wife have been super kind to my wife
and I helping us feel welcomed as we moved to
a brand new city. As you can imagine, it's kind
of scary and a little bit lonely at times when
you uproot your life and you move up to a
completely different area, right, And Adam's just been Adam and
(03:21):
his family have just been super kind to us.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
But it was fun.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
We were just sitting out on his patio and looking
at the Rocky mountains and talking some hoops and we
were shooting the shit about the Rockets. And one of
the things that we were getting into is this idea
of how good can the Rockets get on offense? Really right,
because if you, on the one hand, if you follow
a very simple logical pathway, this was an awesome team
(03:46):
last year.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
And they were awesome.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Because they were incredible on defense, and they used that
defense to get out and transition to score enough on offense,
and they did just enough.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
With Alpern Shangun and.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Fred van Vliet to be able to win basketball games,
and they lock down the second seed in an incredibly
tough Western Conference. Their offense was abysmal in the half court.
They ranked twenty second and half court offense last year
according to Cleaning the Glass. That's kind of an insane
stat if you think about it, for a team that
was a two seed in that crazy Western Conference to
(04:20):
be twenty second and half court offensive rating again according
to Cleaning the Glass. So in theory, if you follow
like a basic logical pathway, you add Kevin Durant to
that situation, you substantially improve your biggest weakness and you
become a much better basketball team.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I mean, even if you look at the defense, and
I think a lot of people are rightfully talking about
how Dylan Brooks is a substantial loss, but I think
KD is a very good defender. He's different than Dylan.
He's not a guy that you're gonna put on the
opposing team's best player all game. But he improves their
back line defense. He provides a level of length they
don't really have in their starting lineup, and he can
switch onto different positions as well, and is actually a
(04:57):
very good perimeter defender. We were talking about in the
KD ranking video how good he is defending on an island.
So I think Houston is going to be an incredible
defense again. So in theory, Katie makes them so much better,
right because he addresses that need. But I do think
it is a bit more complicated than that, for the record,
for you any further, I still see Houston as a
(05:19):
top tier contender in the Western Conference. In that group
of three with Denver and Oklahoma City and Houston, I
view them firmly in that tier. But the things that
I'm about to explain are why I view them as
a clear third place or a third like third most
likely to actually get out of the conference because of
the question marks surrounding them. Offense is a lot more
(05:41):
complicated than defense continuity matters. You have to learn how
to play together. Denver added some guys, but they're going
to be playing the same style of offense with the
same core players that they've been playing with for over
a half decade now. Offense is going to come easy
for Denver this year. Okloma City's offense has some cracks
(06:06):
in it, sure, but they're basically running it back again
with the same dudes play in the same way for
the third consecutive year. And while I view Kevin Durant
as one of the better offensive players in the league,
he's not what I would call a traditional offensive engine,
(06:26):
a guy whose specialty it is to just make five
man offense flow and be super easy. He's a scorer.
He's one of the very best ever. But he's a scorer.
He's the guy who takes a good offense and makes
it elite. And it's just about roles, right like that
there's a certain diminishing return when you have offensive engine types.
(06:51):
I've talked about this, like if you wanted to theoretically
pair a Luca with a Chris Paul in his prime,
or with a you know, with a Nikoli, Right Like,
there's a diminishing return when you have multiple of those
offensive engine types. But like a lot of those kinds
of guys aren't gonna be the elite shot makers. That
are the types of dudes that lift good offenses into
(07:13):
elite offenses, Right Like, this is a unique trait that
Kevin Durant has. He made the Golden State Warriors unbeatable
when he was there because they already had an engine
in Steah. They were already in a great offense, and
he took them from being that to being all time great,
like the possibly the greatest offense of all time. Right
(07:34):
that that's what Kevin Durant did to that group. So
like I do think Kevin Durant obviously makes the Rockets
a better offense, the question is will he be able
to improve their offense enough? Like this is more complicated
than just KD graded offense equals Houston graded offense. I mean,
(07:56):
guys like I see similar issues with the Los Angeles Lakers,
and they have substantially more offensive talent. They're not surrounding,
you know, Luca with a bunch of defensive specialists the
way that Houston is going to be surrounding Kevin Durant
with the Lakers have a shit ton of offensive talent,
(08:16):
and yet they went through extended stretches both in the
regular season with Luca and in the Timberwolve series last year,
or they didn't look like a good offense because it
takes time and effort that continuity builds naturally for you
to become a good offense even with high level offensive pieces.
(08:39):
Houston does not have an elite offensive player. Now excuse me,
an laite offensive roster. They added an elite offensive player.
They added some shooting, like I think Dorian Pinney Smith
is gonna help. But it's going to be a process.
How all of this works out for Houston, how this
season goes for them will depend on what level they
(09:02):
can get to on offense. Does he make them a
little bit better that's not gonna be enough. Does he
make them a lot better. That's where they could end
up reaching their ultimate goals and competing for a championship.
I think a big part of the job is gonna
be figuring out how to turn the attention that KD
draws into easy offense for the rest of the guys. Essentially,
(09:23):
what I'm saying is having KD function more as an
offensive engine than as a score all the time.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
I think if KD.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Just plays in the mud, one on one basketball against
aggressive help, over and over and over again, I think
that could lead to some disappointing results. But think about
it from the perspective of opponent game plans, Katie's gonna
draw a lot of attention. Like if you're coaching against
(09:53):
the Houston Rockets, says here, what are you gonna do
from the standpoint of your game plan. You're gonna overplay KD,
and you're gonna overplay the paint. You're gonna try to
get the ball out of his hands, and you're gonna
try to concede decent catch and shoot looks to mediocre
jump shooters. That's what every team is gonna try to do.
(10:14):
So the key will be taking advantage of Kd's unique
ability to invert spacing. Kade was the best jump shooter
in basketball last year. We talked about that in his
ranking episode. He's gonna come off of wide pin downs
and he's gonna draw a second player to the level.
He's gonna come off of ball screens on the ball
and he's gonna draw two to the ball. And that
(10:36):
sort of thing, that specific ability to bring multiple defenders
out to the perimeter, that can be used to turn
all of that overhelp into dunks not threes.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
If the big man.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Think of it, just from a very basic basketball geometry,
Kevin Durant comes off of a ball screen, the big
man shows up at the level, you have two on KD.
His man rolls out of it. Who's now accountable for
that man? The lowman. Right, the lowman is typically guarding
the guy in the weak side corner. He's going to
be stepping over to guard that role man. Who's the
(11:15):
next helper in that line? If they on ball, guy's
on the ball and the screen defender is showing on
the ball and the lowman is tagging the roller, the
next guy in the rotation is literally going to be
the guy up on the wing. It's it's easy to
get behind that guy. There are dunks to be had there.
(11:37):
That's what the Golden State Warriors have been doing to
teams with high steph pick and roll for years and
years and years, turning that two on the ball sequence
into dunks. So now just this is where you gotta
take advantage of a men Thompson's versatility, because now imagine
whether it's shanng Goon setting the pick and him short
rolling in a men Thompson working the baseline or a
(11:59):
mental screening and rolling and Shangun working the baseline. It's
going to be pivotal that they establish timing. And this
is what is gonna take time. This is what the
continuity brings. Through thousands of reps, you can get to
the point where you have that timing down pat and
(12:19):
you can try to set up the floor so that
a men's working the baseline or Shangun's working the baseline,
and the other is in the short roll spot and
it's you know, someone like Dorian Phinney Smith on the wing.
That's the kind of option where it's like, Okay, now
we're using a men not spacing the floor, but as
(12:40):
a dunker, we're using Shane Gun whoever it is. One
of them is a dunker and the other as a
decision maker in the middle of the floor. And the
only three point shooter you can tilt it to is
gonna be a you know, a Fred van Vliet or
a Dorian Phinney Smith. Better options than in the past
it was Dylan Brooks right Like, it's one of those
(13:02):
things where that geometry setting up that flow, getting the
timing down so that they can go bang bang bang,
dunk bang bang bang, wide open corner three for Dorian
Phiney Smith. You know, like that sort of that sort
of sequencing is going to be what breaks this offense
open into being elite again.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
I think that's gonna be.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
That's why I've been advocating so much for like a
substantial increase in Kevin Durant pick and rolls this year.
I think, you know, Kevin Durant's not necessarily the highest
level pick and roll player in the world, but that
allows him to draw his attention further away from the basket.
In the event that you work more out of KD
in the high post or in the low posts in
(13:46):
ISO situations or post ups. In those situations, Kd's going
to draw the double teams closer to the basket. The
closer the double team is to the basket, the easier
it is to force it to become a ree for somebody.
The more double teams that Kadie draws twenty five feet
from the basket, the more dunks and layups you're going
(14:08):
to generate, which obviously are going to suit an athletic
Houston Rockets team that doesn't necessarily shoot the ball super well,
that's what's going to suit them more so, again, I
think figuring out that progression, figuring out that timing, making
sure that your off ball offensive players are playing in
a spot where they're most comfortable rather than when they're uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
If you screw it up.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
To where men Thompson's catching more in the short corner
corner wing that's going to lead to lesser returns with
this particular offense. So yeah, I think the easiest way
that I could explain it is Houston from a pure
talent perspective is right up in there with that tier
(14:53):
Denver and Oklahoma City you're on. But there are clearly
some bigger question marks for them than there are for
other teams, lighter range of potential outcomes for them on
the offensive end of the floor, And where Houston ends
up this year will come down to how those particular
question marks pan out. Now to the other two parts
of your question, though, how does Katie's age factor into
(15:14):
all of this? It entirely depends on how they play.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Again. If they play ugly, grind.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Out basketball, and Katie kind of insists on playing more
like he did in Phoenix, lower volume pick and roll,
higher volume mid post, iso base up stuff that's brute
force basketball, and I could see him wearing down a
little bit just because they'll need so much of him
in that spot in order to be successful in offense,
(15:42):
and that's just a lot. But if they can figure
out more ways to use the attention he draws to
initiate offense again, more double teams further from the basket,
or aggressive shows at the level coverages further from the basket.
That's where you can find ways to kind of like
turn the way he's guarded into points rather than forcing
(16:04):
him to really physically carry that load. And I think,
I think if they can figure that out, I don't
think his age will be a problem. Why because this
is a really young and athletic Houston team and they're
going to anchor him with so much size and athleticism
that you know, like even when we were talking about
Katie's rim pressure, Katie's rim pressure is going to factor
in for me when it comes to you know, the
(16:27):
player rankings list when we're talking about in a vacuum basketball.
But this team is going to generate so much rim
pressure in transition, and a men Thompson through his through
his ability to you know, just get by people and
to get aggressively closer to the basket, Alprin Shangun's power game,
like Newston is going to be fine on the on
the rim pressure find it's more just like the greasing
(16:48):
the wheels, creating advantages and making basketball easier for them.
That's the thing that I think KDE's going to be
able to help them with. It's kind of a unique
fit in that sense. But yeah, like I'm whether or
not Katie's age role is going to come down in
large part to how they play. Minutes per game I
think would also be a factor. Like Houston's an elite defense,
so they're going to be able to sit him for
(17:10):
sixteen minutes a game and still give themselves a great
chance to win.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
That'll help in the regular.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Season, but especially when they get to the postseason, how
they play will be a factor because they will have
to ratchet as minutes up. And lastly, the part about
KDE ranking eleventh, when typically you need a top ten
player to win, I just don't think that's necessarily true.
I just think you need a superstar to win, and
KD is certainly a superstar. He's just in that second tier.
(17:35):
We're just in such a deep league now that if
Kawhi and Joel and Bid are healthy, we got fourteen
of those guys now. But I think KD is every
bit as good as everyone else that I have on
this list up to number five. That's where that kind
of line of demarcation is so I think KD is
plenty good enough.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
It's just about what heights the team.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Can reach collectively, which is going to come in large
part down to what style do they choose to play
on offense and how well it all comes together on
that end of the floor in terms of their continuity
and how quickly they figure things out. Don't understand next question.
Don't understand some of your Donovan Mitchell arguments. He played
four less minutes per game than the year before, four
(18:15):
and a half minutes less than two years ago. That's
the main reason his total usage numbers were down. That's
just an eleven percent decrease in his minutes, and his
time of possession per game decreased by twenty two percent.
So I don't care about the minutes going down. By
all indications, even just watching the calves, Donovan Mitchell had
(18:36):
the ball less. He was clearly in a different role.
It wasn't simply just that his minutes were cut down.
He literally dropped in time of possession by almost a fourth.
That is a huge change and approach from Donovan Mitchell
year over year.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Next question.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
I'm as big of a Lebron fan as anyone, but
I can't agree with him being higher on the list
than Donovan Mitchell. You mentioned, Lebron finished sixth and MVP voting,
while Mitchell finished hot five. Donovan Mitchell led his team
to the number one seed and statistically the second highest
rated offense of all time. Additionally, if this list is
based on the player you want from October to June,
then health has to matter. Spider played seventy one games
last season, was healthy going into the playoffs, and average thirty.
(19:16):
It seems unfair to blame anything on him regarding their
playoff run last season, seeing as he was without his
wingman and his secondary playmaker Garland for the entire playoffs,
and he still had a damn near fifty point game
and is a notorious playoff riser. Think back to the
bubble again. I love Lebron, but he hasn't been fully
healthy going into either of the last two playoffs, and
you wonder if he can maintain the intensity as a
primary secondary option for four series. It's tough to bank
(19:39):
on a fully healthy Lebron season through the playoffs, whereas
Spider is smacking his prime, So I'm taking him for
health and availability. Thanks and keep up the great work.
Best basketball in the game. Thank you so much for
the kind words. We're going to really dive into this
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slash audio. There are a couple things that I disagree
(21:31):
with for you, like spite of playing seventy one games,
was a little out of the ordinary. He typically does
miss significant chunks of the season. That was one of
the seasons where he played more than usual, and even
though he averaged high scoring numbers, I didn't think he
did an amazing job in terms of flow of the game,
like floor management type stuff like we talked about when
(21:53):
we were doing the Donovan Mitchell video, and even though
he put up big scoring numbers the team, even though
he was surrounded by a lot of shooting and quality
role men talent, the Cavs did not put up good
offensive ratings when Donovan Mitchell was in control of the offense. So, like,
I push back on a couple of those specific things,
but I want to dive into this because I don't
see a large gap between the two. Anybody that I
(22:15):
have ranked five to twelve, I could see a case
for any player to be ranked above any player, Like
there's absolutely a case.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
For Donovan Mitchell to be above Lebron.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
It'd be a harder case to make, but you could
absolutely argue him above a guy like Anthony Edwards. It
could be like he has more reliable short range scoring,
He's got like better floater short range jump shooting. He's
more attentive and disciplined off ball defender. Anthony Edwards makes
a lot of mistakes on that end of the floor. Like,
you could make the case. Again, it's not a case
(22:47):
I would make. I think Aunt is clearly a little
bit better than Donovan Mitchell. But the point is is
like anywhere from five to twelve, you could argue anybody
over anybody, Like, if you're gonna make a case for
Lebron to be down at twelve, you're going to focus
on some of the inconsistencies in the regular season with
his effort or some of the stuff with his age.
(23:07):
And if you're going to argue him up to five,
you're going to be like, well, the guy that was
playing in the first round against Denver two years ago
looked like a bona fide top tier superstar, and like,
when you have that, dude, you just give yourself a
really good chance.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Right, You're going to make cases either way.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
And again, the case against health or excuse me, the
case against Lebron is health. As you mentioned, Lebron at
his top end, the guy we saw in February, he's
one of the five best players in the world, but
there's no guarantee that he'll be at that level when
you get to the playoffs. And you're right, I thought
that in twenty twenty three when he had the foot injury,
(23:44):
he wasn't even close. He was like more like a
third tier superstar because he had this broken foot and
he could barely move and it was affecting him in
a bunch of areas of his game. I thought he
was at that level in twenty twenty four. It was
sneaky one of his better playoff series, just got nuked
by a couple of Jamal Murray game winners, but they
led the majority of the series. He averaged twenty eight points,
(24:05):
seven rebounds, and nine assists on sixty four percent tru shooting.
He hit clutch shot after clutch shot after clutch shot.
It just the Nuggets did more on offense at the
end of those games. It just wasn't enough to win
the series. And again, Denver's one of the great teams
of this era and they're defending champs at that point
in time, right, and I thought he was fine against Minnesota.
(24:26):
He was right at that second tier superstar level, certainly
better than he was in twenty twenty three when they
made the Western Conference Finals run, but not as good
as he was in twenty twenty four. So to your point,
it's kind of like a roll of the dice with
Lebron as far as which player you're gonna get when
you get to the postseason. But that's the first point
that I have to hone in on here. Lebron's floor
(24:50):
is just so high as a basketball player still to
this day, Like injured foot Lebron in the Western Conference
Finals run five points per game on fifty eight percent
turre shooting. Again, not the thirty points per game on
fifty seven percent ture shooting that Donovan Mitchell just put up,
but still really good. Scoring twenty five points per game
(25:10):
on fifty eight percent your shooting. Go look, just just
go look at the NBA dot com website, sort by
points per game and look at how many players were
averaging that type of scoring on that type of efficiency.
In this year's postseason run ten rebounds per game and
seven assists per game. Ten rebounds per game is a
huge foundational boost to a basketball team. And like say
(25:34):
what you want to say about Lebron's regular season defensive effort,
He's still a very good playoff defender to this day,
while helping to anchor your defensive rebounding while becoming an
excellent catch and shoot player. Last two playoff runs, he's
eighteen for thirty seven on catch and shoot jump shots.
It's forty nine percent. He can still generate offense, not
at the level that Donovan Mitchell does now, but still
(25:54):
really good at it because of his playmaking talent and
his size and strength and like yeah, like Donovan Mitchell
had a more impressive regular season. He led a kick
ass Cleveland Cavaliers team to a phenomenal season, but it's
important to acknowledge that that was an excellent Cavs team.
Darius Garland's phenomenal ability to just beat people off the
(26:16):
dribble and slice teams up in the paint made made
things easier for everybody. Evan Mobley becoming like a legit
awesome two way player, Jared Allen established himself as one
of the better regular season centers in the NBA. They're
insane depth of three and d off ball talent that
Kobe Altman put together. It was an awesome team. That
(26:36):
roster actually makes a shit ton of sense for Lebron James.
A point guard who can break the defense down, elite
defenders that can shoot, elite defenders in the front line,
that anchor things that can handle some of the physicality,
tons of high level off ball role player talent. That's
literally why this summer, when Lebron and all the rumors
around the Lakers started popping up, everyone's like hmm, what
(26:58):
if he went to Cleveland because it just makes so
much basketball sets And again, like Lebron, even on the
low end of what you're gonna get in the postseason,
his floor is just still so high and you might
just get one of the top six or seven players
in the league when you get there, which is a
ceiling that I don't think Donovan Mitchell can reach. So like,
(27:21):
I just still think Lebron's a better basketball player than
Donovan Mitchell, even at his old age. And for the record,
I believe if you swapped him right now, like right now,
even with the Jankee lineup stuff, you'd have to move
Strews to the two and play Lebron at the three
next to Mobley and Allen. It'd be a little bit funky.
I think that's a better team. Frankly, I'd make that
(27:45):
team a gigantic favorite to win the Eastern Conference, and
I'd give them a substantially better chance to win the title.
I like, I think Lebron is a bit better than Donovan,
but I also think the fit, the surrounding talent, all
that shooting a point that can help break the defense down.
Like I even think just in pure basketball fit that
(28:06):
matches up better with Lebron in Cleveland than Donovan Mitchell
does in Cleveland. So yeah, I again, that's just my take.
You're not wrong for putting Donovan Mitchell above Lebron. Again,
I think there's a clear case you can make. I
think it's a defensible position. But I still think Lebron's
a better basketball player than Donovan Mitchell. By the way,
I'm gonna be hitting him very soon, so it's not
like I have him astronomically high. I just have him
(28:27):
ahead of the guys that I have below him on
the list right now. Next question, Austin Reeves and Jared
Vanderbilt for Jaden McDaniels. I see this as a mutually
beneficial trade for both teams. What are your thoughts. It's
an interesting trade on the surface, especially when you view
it through just a short term lens. Right, Like Austin
(28:48):
Reeves provides secondary ball handling to a Minnesota team that
desperately needs that kind of like skill guard off of
Anthony Edwards right, and Jaden McDaniels makes the Lakers Stantiley
more athletic and gives them that starting caliber small forward
that they desperately need. But it comes with a fatal
flaw for both teams. For the Lakers, part of the
(29:11):
reason why they value Austin Reeves is the proven pathway
to success with Luka Dancic, which is another kind of
like pound the ball type of shot creator that can run, spread,
pick and roll with similar types of players that Luca
plays with, and just run a reasonable fact simile of
what Luca does to spell Luca when he's off ball
(29:31):
and to carry the offense when Luca's off the floor.
I think the Lakers view Austin Reeves as their Kyrie
Irving or their Jalen Brunson in terms of being that
secondary ball And now there's a much more complicated conversation
we can have about whether or not Austin's capable of that.
Jalen Brunson is top ten on this list this year,
(29:51):
and Kyrie Irving is one of the best number twos
of all time as a guy who's literally won a
championship in that role. And I don't think anybody's under
any delusions thinking that Austin Reeves is better than Kyrie Irving,
and I don't think any of us are thinking that right.
So there's a complicated conversation you could get into, which
is like, are the Lakers making the right decision betting
(30:14):
on Austin Reeves being their number two with Luca?
Speaker 1 (30:16):
But I think that's what they see him as.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I think that's what they see So I don't think
they're going to make a move that trades Austin Reeves
unless they're getting that guy back, the guy who's going
to be Luca's number two, or unless they have a
clear plan like, oh, this guy's gonna come sign with
us or whatever. It might be some sort of intel,
some sort of plan to replace that guy who's secondary
(30:40):
off of Luca right when Lebron retires or before. If
they don't have that, I don't think they're going to
trade Austin. And then the second piece of it is,
if you trade Jaden McDaniels, the Timberwolves suddenly have a
gaping hole at the small at the small forward position.
Like ar Vanderbilt, you included him in that deal. If
(31:03):
he started next to Julius Randall, I think that would
be a spacing disaster, especially with Rudy Gobert on the floor.
I don't think Terrence Shannon is ready for a starting
role yet. If you start Dante DiVincenzo, you're gonna start
having size issues. I just think it would be plugging
one hole but creating another hole in the process. So
I just don't think it makes sense there. If the
Lakers are going to make a move for like an
(31:26):
elite starting two or three, somebody in the JD McDaniels,
ilk even like Herb Jones, and they're not gonna move
on like an Andrew Wiggins something along those lines because
he's too old. I think they're gonna have to wait
till the middle of the season. I don't see anything
that makes sense right now, because again, they have to
have a plan for a ball handler coming back, or
they need to be able to get that player without
(31:48):
including Austin Reeves, which then puts you into a different
class of player right or at least a player that's
not yet available that can drive the market price down.
They're gonna have to wait till something takes shape elsewhere
around the league, like oh, the Pacers fall out the
gates and decide they're willing to get rid of an
Aaron Nee Smith for example, like or like Andrew Nevhart
(32:09):
would be like a pipe dream because he'd be a
guy that could also be that secondary ball handler off
of Luca. But like you're if you could get a
player like that, it's gonna have to materialize at some
point down the line, because I just don't think it
exists right this right at this point, and I think
it's probably more likely because of the Lakers are so
hesitant to give up draft assets at this point, holding
(32:30):
out for the superstar that they're gonna pair Luca with.
I think it's probably more likely that they end up
getting older options, like someone like a Conavious Callwell Pope
out of Memphis right like on a buyout, or maybe
you because CACP has a player option after this coming
season for over twenty million dollars, So like maybe you
(32:50):
ship out expirings guys like Gabe Vincent and Max Kliba
and you just tell Memphis like, we're not giving you
anything else, but we'll take CASEP and clear your books
next summer and we'll take ACPs as a starting too.
That would be the kind of deal that I think
is more likely for the Lakers than something that's kind
(33:11):
of splash year and bigger, because I just think that
they're trying to play the slow game with Luca, which
I think again the problem with playing the slow game
with Luca is whatever you anticipate, you can get that
big carrot that you're thinking about that's going to drive
all the success in the Luka doncic Era. You got
to also factor in that you're losing an All NBA
player like Lebron is probably going to be an All
(33:33):
NBA player this season, and that might be the last time.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
And whenever Lebron.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Leaves, whether he gets hurt this year or the like
gets hurt next year, or just decides to retire at
some point, whenever Lebron's done, you're removing an All NBA
player from this roster. And so that's kind of why
I view the overcautiousness as a little bit of a
flawed strategy. That's not to say that you need to
(34:00):
go mortgage your future. As I've said, I don't think
the Lakers need to go move Austin a first round
pick and all these swaps and second round draft compensation
and everything in under the sun to go get a
thirty year old Andrew Wiggins. I'm not saying that I've
said on the record, I don't think that the Lakers
should move on Andrew Wiggins unless they can do it
(34:23):
without including the first round pick, because I understand their situation.
I would just include Dalton and maybe a swap and
a second round pick and see if you can squeeze
Wiggins out of them, you know, like, because obviously making
a move for Wiggins is a win now type of
move that doesn't have as much long term upside.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
But I am.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Saying that if an elite let's say a Jaden McDaniels,
for example, comes available, someone of that ilk Herb Jones,
whoever it might be, and you can get that deal
done with the first round pick and you keep Austin.
I the Lakers would hold on to the first round
pick because of their pipe dreams of Giannis, And I'm
(35:05):
saying I think that a first round pick spent on
a twenty six year old, legitimate, awesome three and D
guy at the small forward position would be mutually beneficial
to this era and the future.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
On the one hand, all of a sudden.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
You've got Lebron and Luca and this kick ass three
and D player that you can go try to make
a run with right now. And that guy's an asset.
He's a three and d player in his twenties. He's
worth while. He's worth something. So even if you decided
to go make a move for a superstar down the line,
he's a guy you can include in a deal like
that that the other team is going to be like, well,
(35:42):
we're getting back a twenty eight year old all defense guy.
This is something I can sell to my fans, right.
I think that the asset management piece and the lack
of valuation from the lakers of super high levels starters
as opposed to superstar talent. I think that lack of
(36:05):
value placed on super high level starters is going to
be a mistake in this Luca era. I think Luca
is such a unique star. He's such an offense in
and of himself that he's not as dependent on super
super high level superstar support. That's why he can make
get it done with Kyrie Irving or get it done
with Austin and like or not with Austin a guy
like Jalen Brunson, right, and by the way, like that
(36:28):
Celtics team is an all time great. They lost Luca
personally needed to make some improvements, especially as a defender
and getting into better shape. There are checkpoints that Luca
has to hit in order for that build to work
in order to win a championship. But like, Luca kind
of grants you the grace of not necessarily needing a
top tier superstar next to him. Same with Jokic, Right,
(36:52):
That's how Jokic won the title. He's such an offense
to himself. He's such an elite, high end engine that
he can win with really high level starters rather than needing,
you know, to have Giannis next to him. Right, that's
the unique thing that these ultra indomitable offensive engines bring
(37:14):
to the table. And if Luca gets in great shape
and he doesn't tire out at the end of games,
and he gets better on defense, I do think he
can win a title surrounded by super high level starters
and a legitimate secondary creator the ilk of the Kyrie
Brunson variety. Right, So, like that to me is the pathway.
And so I think that's where I just differ with
(37:35):
the Lakers, and they're kind of big picture like basketball philosophy.
It's like, I don't think the Lakers have a big
picture basketball philosophy, or at least if they do, it's
being drowned out by the superiors. Like I know, there
are really smart people that work in the Laker front
office underneath Rob Polinka, and like I just I am
not sure if the Rob Jeanie, you know, Kurt rambis
(37:59):
craft out has the appropriate vision for what works in
the modern him yet even under Luca. And so that's
what kind of freaks me out a little bit, is
like I don't I think if you ask them like
what Herb Jones is worth, they would probably speak more
like they would not be willing to spend as much
(38:20):
as some of the smarter teams in the league would
be willing to spend to get a guy like that,
when the reality is is alongside Luka Doncic, when he
would generate Herb a million butt naked corner threes and
his ability to guard on the perimeter and funnel into
a rim protector and all those sorts of things that
Herb Jones can do in the context of Luca, that's
(38:43):
worth more than even if you picked up Herb and
put him somewhere else. Like, Luca is such a unique
player in the way that he drives value for that
type of role player, And I just hope that the
Lakers value that sort of thing eventually, Jason, I don't
know if this mail bag, if this is mail bag,
(39:03):
but I've watched Curry and Lebron go at it for
the last five years, and I've noticed that Curry tends
to outplay him in regard to impact. A lot of
people don't want to accept it, but I seriously think
he's been better than Lebron for the last couple of years.
A lot of general fans point to stats to show
that it's close, but in my opinion, Curry's impact has
been great, far greater than Lebron's, and I've noticed that
Lebron's stats make him often better than he I can't
(39:27):
this is what must have just been a type of
it says make him out out to be better than
he is. In the last three to four years. He
slacks off a lot on defense, and his points seem
to be a bit hollow or empty. Don't get me wrong,
but he's still been a top five player the last
five seasons. But I could I could definitely be wrong,
but I was wondering on your thoughts about how about this,
especially since most NBA fans don't watch games and just
(39:49):
point to stats to show how close it is. So
more or less, you're just saying you think Lebron or
STEP's been better than Lebron for the last couple of years.
You said far better. I don't think it's far better,
but I actually agree with you. I think Steph has
been better than Lebron over the last few years. Lebron
is super old now and he's just more prone to
injuries that makes it harder for him to.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Reach his peak.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
His peak is still every bit as high as everyone
else in the league. Like again, last year in February,
there was there wasn't an NBA player playing better than
Lebron last year in February, but then he got hurt again, right,
And I mean, you guys are starting to see this,
you Steph fans, like Steph has been a monster, but
he just got hurt. He's thirty seven now, Like this
is kind of what happens when you get into these years.
(40:33):
And we'll see if that ends up being a fluke.
And it was just because he had to carry such
crazy load right in the run up to the playoffs,
because of their predicament, because they waited so long to
make a trade. And maybe Steph will be healthy from
here on out.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
We'll see you.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
But like I do agree that Steph has been better
in the last few years than Lebron has been. Like
from i'd say twenty twenty two to twenty twenty four, Yeah,
that stretch.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
He's been a more reliably great player.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
It's actually why it's so difficult to have these kinds
of discussions with people. Everyone just focused on the wins
and losses when basketball is just so much more complicated
than that. For example, the Lakers led by Lebron, beat
the Warriors in twenty twenty three led by Steph, but
I thought Steph was a better player than Lebron in
(41:20):
that series. Lebron was on a bad foot. He was
struggling to score effectively. Lebron was great in Game six,
especially like the Lebron was awesome at times in that series,
and again in Game six, he was a fucking monster.
But Steph was the better player in that series. But
the Lakers were the better team and the better team won. Similarly,
(41:42):
you'll hear Warriors fans constantly talk about how they went
three to one against Lebron in the finals. I thought
Lebron was the best player in all four of those series.
The Warriors were just obviously. Similarly to the Lakers Warriors
series in twenty twenty three, the Warriors were just obviously
better teams. The twenty fifteen Calves were decimated by injuries.
(42:03):
In that series, Kyrie and Kevin Love out, there was
a massive talent gap, and then the KD Warriors are
literally the greatest roster ever assembled in the history of
the NBA. People were just being dense for whatever reason,
at least among the Warriors fans that look back on
that era. I mean, if the Lakers traded for Yannis
(42:24):
tomorrow and Luca and Yannis knocked Jokic out of the playoffs,
that doesn't mean that Luca or Janis are better than Jokic.
That's incredibly stupid logic. But for whatever reason, Warriors fans
make that very case when arguing Steph over Lebron. When
(42:46):
the second and third best players in the league at
the peak of their powers played on the same team,
they beat Lebron twice. So my take is for the
entirety of Lebron's prime, Lebron was a better player than Steph,
but Steph in his late prime has been better than
thirty eight thirty nine, forty year old Lebron. And lastly,
(43:09):
the gap in both of these cases is close in
my opinion, which I think is a testament to the
greatness of both of them. So, for instance, like I
do think Lebron is better than Steph during that whole era,
but Steph got close. He got close to the guy
many folks consider to be the best basketball player ever.
That's an incredible feather in Steph's cap. That's a big
(43:29):
part of why I have Steph as the fifth best
perimeter player of all time. He legit competed like Whent
toe to toe and competed against the goat.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
It's remarkable.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Similarly, Lebron's staying close to Steph and the stars at
the top of the like it's close. Like Steph's been
better than Lebron the last couple of years, but Lebron
still made second team All NBA and was sixth and
MVP voting last year, and like has definitively been right
up there hanging on for dear life with those guys.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
That he like.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
It's he continues to make All NBA every year. He
just got second team. It's a truly remarkable accomplishment for
a forty year old basketball player. Him remaining at that
level for as long as he has is literally the
biggest part of why I view him as the goat.
If I'm starting to franchise from scratch and I'm guaranteed
(44:29):
a ten year stretch where he's the best player in
the world and another decade plus where he's an All
NBA player, I'm giving myself a lot of chances to
build a championship team. No one's come close to that.
And last little bonus, Steph topic here again. He just
suffered that injury in the postseason, which kind of takes
(44:50):
away from this, But he's putting together a sneaky little
case for longevity on his own, like amongst small guards
at his age, to make second team All NBA. Like
most small guards fall apart rapidly in this phase of
their career, and Steph just hasn't. I'm curious to see
(45:11):
how long he'll drag out this level of play, because,
like I still have him pretty high on the list
this year, I have him above Lebron again, But at
the same time, he just got hurt and he just
missed a playoff series, so hopefully that isn't a sign
of things to come.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
I'm hoping, Like I.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
Said that that was more to do with the Warriors
waiting forever to finally get Steph a second star, and
he wore his body down to the point where he
had to play super hard at the end of the
season instead of chilling and getting ready for the playoffs.
So like, whether or not it was a fluke will
play a big role in where I rank Steph next summer, right, like,
if he gets hurt again this year, then like if
he gets hurt again this year, or if he's dealing
(45:45):
with the nagging injury that causes him to play below
his peak when we get to the postseason, all of
a sudden, those same cases you're making about Lebron and
his health and his ability to stay at his peak
now apply to Steph as well. So that's gonna be
That's gonna be something I have an eye on this year.
I am on Steph being healthy, and that's why I
have staff as high as he is. You guys will
see where he ranks on the list this year when
we get there, But like, I'm gonna be keeping an
(46:08):
eye on that because I think that's gonna play a
big role in where ranks next year. Last question, non
basketball question. So as a fan for years now, I'm
happy for you and the misses as you guys embark
on a new chapter in life and congratulations.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
However, and I don't even want to ask this, but
I need to know, does this mean Two Sons podcast
is dead? I love that channel, So some of you
guys listen to my other podcasts that I do. It's
just kind of like a passion project. On the side,
I don't do it nearly as much. We only do
like maybe thirty episodes a year, but I cover Star
Wars in particular, but like all the big lore stuff
(46:42):
like Lord of the Rings and Game Thrones, that sort
of stuff, major TV shows and movies and stuff. With
my best friend Luke, and we haven't done an episode
in a while, in large part because I was in
my busy season and right after that I immediately moved across
state lines, so it was just like super like just
a tough transition period. And Luke just had a new baby,
(47:04):
so like he's been dealing with that too, so we've
been kind of like not working for a while here.
But to be clear, and we did, we covered and Or,
but covering and Or was the last time that we
did episodes, and so a couple of things. First of all,
Luke's my best friend and me moving to Denver doesn't
change that, and we're gonna continue to record. We got
(47:25):
him set up with remote equipment and I'll just be
doing two Sons podcasts from here and we'll do it
over zoom calls. I think it'll be even funner, even
more fun for both of us because it'll be opportunities
for us to hang out again, because we'll obviously be
hanging out less being you know, nine hundred miles apart.
But yeah, we're gonna The main thing is, I'm actually
(47:46):
trying to work out something with him on Tuesday or
Wednesday this week because I watched the first two episodes
of Alien Earth on Hulu and I loved it, and
episode three is tomorrow night, and so I'm trying to
get Luke.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
I think he's on board.
Speaker 2 (47:59):
But I think we're gonna do an episode here in
the next few days that covers Alien Earth. So if
you guys want to watch along with us and just
kind of hang out on the podcast, we'll be keep
an eye on my Twitter feed over the course in
the next few days. And I'll tweet out the link.
But if you want to find the channel, it's just
two Suns podcast. It's a whole YouTube channel if you
go back there. Like every Star Wars book we've read,
(48:21):
we've done an episode on Star Wars movies, that sort
of thing. Like We've done a ton of content over
the years that I think, especially when you're doing TVs
and TV and movie.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
Shows, that just still holds up.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
So you guys can check out the older content there
and then again hopefully within the next three days or so,
we'll have our new episode there. But Nicholas, thanks so
much for supporting us and all of you guys that
do listen to that show. Thanks and if you guys
want to check it out, you guys know where to
find it. But that's all I have for today is
always as sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting me and
suporting the show. We'll be back on Monday with number nine,
(48:54):
number nine, and I will see you guys no. Number
eight because number nine is Jaylen Brunts and we just
hit so I'll see you guys on my day for
number eighth,
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
All right, welcome to hoopsina I here at the volume
Heavy Friday.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Everybody.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hope all of you guys had a great week. Got
a jam pack show for you guys today. It's Mailbag Today,
Mailbag Day, and we got so many good questions from
you guys. A lot of questions surrounding Kevin Durant and
the Houston Rockets some of their big picture potential this year.
I really want to do a deep dive into KD
and the Rockets today. After that, I got a couple
(00:38):
of really interesting questions surrounding Donovan Mitchell, including a question
as to whether or not Donovan should be ranked ahead
of a guy like Lebron. So we're gonna dig into
that a little bit. There's some big picture stuff with
like Lebron versus Steph in the recent history versus all time.
We've got questions surrounding some theoretical Los Angeles Lakers trades,
(00:59):
all sorts of interesting stuff to get into today. You
guys know the job before we get started. To subscribe
to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channel so you don't miss
any more of our videos. Follow me on Twitter, Underscore
JCNLT So you guys don't miss show announcements, don't forget
a better podcast fee wherever you get your podcast on
our Hoops Tonight. It's also super helpful if you leave
your rating and a review on that front. Jackson is
doing great work on our social media feeds on Twitter, Instagram,
Facebook and TikTok. Make sure you guys follow us there
(01:20):
and the last, but not least, if you want to
get a question into this mail bag, all you gotta
do is go to our full episodes on YouTube and
in the comments drop mail bag with a colon and
then write your question. You're gonna ask questions about absolutely
anything to get into the mail bag. We're also highlighting,
specifically in this series questions that are related to the
player rankings list. I'm gonna try to get to several
(01:42):
of those in here as well. So you disagree with
where I have a guy ranked. You think he's too high,
I think he's too low. Just tell me where you
think you should be ranked, explain why, give a little
elevator pitch, and we'll get into those debates in our
Friday mail bags as well. All right, let's talk some basketball.
So first question, I have been feeling that the Rockets
aren't real contenders for an overly simplistic reason. KD is
(02:06):
too old. When is the last time we saw a
player as old as KD be the best player on
a championship team. Lebron in twenty twenty was two years
younger than KD will be by next year's playoffs. You
have to go back over forty years to Careem Abdul
Jabbar in nineteen eighty five to find a guy at
least as old as KD is now so on a
championship team, and it's two guys are widely considered to
(02:28):
be two of the top three players of all time
in Lebron in Kareem Abdul Jabbar. I just don't see
KD being that third guy to accomplish this feat. But
is this too simplistic? Also, you don't have him ranked
as a top ten player, and it's exceedingly rare to
win a chip without a top ten player. So this
is actually a really interesting topic to me as it
pertains to the age of Kevin Durant. How much can
(02:52):
he help their offense really and is there any sort
of precedent for this sort of thing?
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Right?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
And I was actually getting in to the Rockets quite
a bit. I was having dinner over at Adam Mars's
house the other night. You know, he covers the Nuggets.
And we just moved up here to Denver, and Adam
and his wife have been super kind to my wife
and I helping us feel welcomed as we moved to
a brand new city. As you can imagine, it's kind
of scary and a little bit lonely at times when
you uproot your life and you move up to a
completely different area, right, And Adam's just been Adam and
(03:21):
his family have just been super kind to us.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
But it was fun.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
We were just sitting out on his patio and looking
at the Rocky mountains and talking some hoops and we
were shooting the shit about the Rockets. And one of
the things that we were getting into is this idea
of how good can the Rockets get on offense? Really right,
because if you, on the one hand, if you follow
a very simple logical pathway, this was an awesome team
(03:46):
last year.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
And they were awesome.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Because they were incredible on defense, and they used that
defense to get out and transition to score enough on offense,
and they did just enough.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
With Alpern Shangun and.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Fred van Vliet to be able to win basketball games,
and they lock down the second seed in an incredibly
tough Western Conference. Their offense was abysmal in the half court.
They ranked twenty second and half court offense last year
according to Cleaning the Glass. That's kind of an insane
stat if you think about it, for a team that
was a two seed in that crazy Western Conference to
(04:20):
be twenty second and half court offensive rating again according
to Cleaning the Glass. So in theory, if you follow
like a basic logical pathway, you add Kevin Durant to
that situation, you substantially improve your biggest weakness and you
become a much better basketball team.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I mean, even if you look at the defense, and
I think a lot of people are rightfully talking about
how Dylan Brooks is a substantial loss, but I think
KD is a very good defender. He's different than Dylan.
He's not a guy that you're gonna put on the
opposing team's best player all game. But he improves their
back line defense. He provides a level of length they
don't really have in their starting lineup, and he can
switch onto different positions as well, and is actually a
(04:57):
very good perimeter defender. We were talking about in the
KD ranking video how good he is defending on an island.
So I think Houston is going to be an incredible
defense again. So in theory, Katie makes them so much better,
right because he addresses that need. But I do think
it is a bit more complicated than that, for the record,
for you any further, I still see Houston as a
(05:19):
top tier contender in the Western Conference. In that group
of three with Denver and Oklahoma City and Houston, I
view them firmly in that tier. But the things that
I'm about to explain are why I view them as
a clear third place or a third like third most
likely to actually get out of the conference because of
the question marks surrounding them. Offense is a lot more
(05:41):
complicated than defense continuity matters. You have to learn how
to play together. Denver added some guys, but they're going
to be playing the same style of offense with the
same core players that they've been playing with for over
a half decade now. Offense is going to come easy
for Denver this year. Okloma City's offense has some cracks
(06:06):
in it, sure, but they're basically running it back again
with the same dudes play in the same way for
the third consecutive year. And while I view Kevin Durant
as one of the better offensive players in the league,
he's not what I would call a traditional offensive engine,
(06:26):
a guy whose specialty it is to just make five
man offense flow and be super easy. He's a scorer.
He's one of the very best ever. But he's a scorer.
He's the guy who takes a good offense and makes
it elite. And it's just about roles, right like that
there's a certain diminishing return when you have offensive engine types.
(06:51):
I've talked about this, like if you wanted to theoretically
pair a Luca with a Chris Paul in his prime,
or with a you know, with a Nikoli, Right Like,
there's a diminishing return when you have multiple of those
offensive engine types. But like a lot of those kinds
of guys aren't gonna be the elite shot makers. That
are the types of dudes that lift good offenses into
(07:13):
elite offenses, Right Like, this is a unique trait that
Kevin Durant has. He made the Golden State Warriors unbeatable
when he was there because they already had an engine
in Steah. They were already in a great offense, and
he took them from being that to being all time great,
like the possibly the greatest offense of all time. Right
(07:34):
that that's what Kevin Durant did to that group. So
like I do think Kevin Durant obviously makes the Rockets
a better offense, the question is will he be able
to improve their offense enough? Like this is more complicated
than just KD graded offense equals Houston graded offense. I mean,
(07:56):
guys like I see similar issues with the Los Angeles Lakers,
and they have substantially more offensive talent. They're not surrounding,
you know, Luca with a bunch of defensive specialists the
way that Houston is going to be surrounding Kevin Durant
with the Lakers have a shit ton of offensive talent,
(08:16):
and yet they went through extended stretches both in the
regular season with Luca and in the Timberwolve series last year,
or they didn't look like a good offense because it
takes time and effort that continuity builds naturally for you
to become a good offense even with high level offensive pieces.
(08:39):
Houston does not have an elite offensive player. Now excuse me,
an laite offensive roster. They added an elite offensive player.
They added some shooting, like I think Dorian Pinney Smith
is gonna help. But it's going to be a process.
How all of this works out for Houston, how this
season goes for them will depend on what level they
(09:02):
can get to on offense. Does he make them a
little bit better that's not gonna be enough. Does he
make them a lot better. That's where they could end
up reaching their ultimate goals and competing for a championship.
I think a big part of the job is gonna
be figuring out how to turn the attention that KD
draws into easy offense for the rest of the guys. Essentially,
(09:23):
what I'm saying is having KD function more as an
offensive engine than as a score all the time.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
I think if KD.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Just plays in the mud, one on one basketball against
aggressive help, over and over and over again, I think
that could lead to some disappointing results. But think about
it from the perspective of opponent game plans, Katie's gonna
draw a lot of attention. Like if you're coaching against
(09:53):
the Houston Rockets, says here, what are you gonna do
from the standpoint of your game plan. You're gonna overplay KD,
and you're gonna overplay the paint. You're gonna try to
get the ball out of his hands, and you're gonna
try to concede decent catch and shoot looks to mediocre
jump shooters. That's what every team is gonna try to do.
(10:14):
So the key will be taking advantage of Kd's unique
ability to invert spacing. Kade was the best jump shooter
in basketball last year. We talked about that in his
ranking episode. He's gonna come off of wide pin downs
and he's gonna draw a second player to the level.
He's gonna come off of ball screens on the ball
and he's gonna draw two to the ball. And that
(10:36):
sort of thing, that specific ability to bring multiple defenders
out to the perimeter, that can be used to turn
all of that overhelp into dunks not threes.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
If the big man.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Think of it, just from a very basic basketball geometry,
Kevin Durant comes off of a ball screen, the big
man shows up at the level, you have two on KD.
His man rolls out of it. Who's now accountable for
that man? The lowman. Right, the lowman is typically guarding
the guy in the weak side corner. He's going to
be stepping over to guard that role man. Who's the
(11:15):
next helper in that line? If they on ball, guy's
on the ball and the screen defender is showing on
the ball and the lowman is tagging the roller, the
next guy in the rotation is literally going to be
the guy up on the wing. It's it's easy to
get behind that guy. There are dunks to be had there.
(11:37):
That's what the Golden State Warriors have been doing to
teams with high steph pick and roll for years and
years and years, turning that two on the ball sequence
into dunks. So now just this is where you gotta
take advantage of a men Thompson's versatility, because now imagine
whether it's shanng Goon setting the pick and him short
rolling in a men Thompson working the baseline or a
(11:59):
mental screening and rolling and Shangun working the baseline. It's
going to be pivotal that they establish timing. And this
is what is gonna take time. This is what the
continuity brings. Through thousands of reps, you can get to
the point where you have that timing down pat and
(12:19):
you can try to set up the floor so that
a men's working the baseline or Shangun's working the baseline,
and the other is in the short roll spot and
it's you know, someone like Dorian Phinney Smith on the wing.
That's the kind of option where it's like, Okay, now
we're using a men not spacing the floor, but as
(12:40):
a dunker, we're using Shane Gun whoever it is. One
of them is a dunker and the other as a
decision maker in the middle of the floor. And the
only three point shooter you can tilt it to is
gonna be a you know, a Fred van Vliet or
a Dorian Phinney Smith. Better options than in the past
it was Dylan Brooks right Like, it's one of those
(13:02):
things where that geometry setting up that flow, getting the
timing down so that they can go bang bang bang,
dunk bang bang bang, wide open corner three for Dorian
Phiney Smith. You know, like that sort of that sort
of sequencing is going to be what breaks this offense
open into being elite again.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
I think that's gonna be.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
That's why I've been advocating so much for like a
substantial increase in Kevin Durant pick and rolls this year.
I think, you know, Kevin Durant's not necessarily the highest
level pick and roll player in the world, but that
allows him to draw his attention further away from the basket.
In the event that you work more out of KD
in the high post or in the low posts in
(13:46):
ISO situations or post ups. In those situations, Kd's going
to draw the double teams closer to the basket. The
closer the double team is to the basket, the easier
it is to force it to become a ree for somebody.
The more double teams that Kadie draws twenty five feet
from the basket, the more dunks and layups you're going
(14:08):
to generate, which obviously are going to suit an athletic
Houston Rockets team that doesn't necessarily shoot the ball super well,
that's what's going to suit them more so, again, I
think figuring out that progression, figuring out that timing, making
sure that your off ball offensive players are playing in
a spot where they're most comfortable rather than when they're uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
If you screw it up.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
To where men Thompson's catching more in the short corner
corner wing that's going to lead to lesser returns with
this particular offense. So yeah, I think the easiest way
that I could explain it is Houston from a pure
talent perspective is right up in there with that tier
(14:53):
Denver and Oklahoma City you're on. But there are clearly
some bigger question marks for them than there are for
other teams, lighter range of potential outcomes for them on
the offensive end of the floor, And where Houston ends
up this year will come down to how those particular
question marks pan out. Now to the other two parts
of your question, though, how does Katie's age factor into
(15:14):
all of this? It entirely depends on how they play.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Again. If they play ugly, grind.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Out basketball, and Katie kind of insists on playing more
like he did in Phoenix, lower volume pick and roll,
higher volume mid post, iso base up stuff that's brute
force basketball, and I could see him wearing down a
little bit just because they'll need so much of him
in that spot in order to be successful in offense,
(15:42):
and that's just a lot. But if they can figure
out more ways to use the attention he draws to
initiate offense again, more double teams further from the basket,
or aggressive shows at the level coverages further from the basket.
That's where you can find ways to kind of like
turn the way he's guarded into points rather than forcing
(16:04):
him to really physically carry that load. And I think,
I think if they can figure that out, I don't
think his age will be a problem. Why because this
is a really young and athletic Houston team and they're
going to anchor him with so much size and athleticism
that you know, like even when we were talking about
Katie's rim pressure, Katie's rim pressure is going to factor
in for me when it comes to you know, the
(16:27):
player rankings list when we're talking about in a vacuum basketball.
But this team is going to generate so much rim
pressure in transition, and a men Thompson through his through
his ability to you know, just get by people and
to get aggressively closer to the basket, Alprin Shangun's power game,
like Newston is going to be fine on the on
the rim pressure find it's more just like the greasing
(16:48):
the wheels, creating advantages and making basketball easier for them.
That's the thing that I think KDE's going to be
able to help them with. It's kind of a unique
fit in that sense. But yeah, like I'm whether or
not Katie's age role is going to come down in
large part to how they play. Minutes per game I
think would also be a factor. Like Houston's an elite defense,
so they're going to be able to sit him for
(17:10):
sixteen minutes a game and still give themselves a great
chance to win.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
That'll help in the regular.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Season, but especially when they get to the postseason, how
they play will be a factor because they will have
to ratchet as minutes up. And lastly, the part about
KDE ranking eleventh, when typically you need a top ten
player to win, I just don't think that's necessarily true.
I just think you need a superstar to win, and
KD is certainly a superstar. He's just in that second tier.
(17:35):
We're just in such a deep league now that if
Kawhi and Joel and Bid are healthy, we got fourteen
of those guys now. But I think KD is every
bit as good as everyone else that I have on
this list up to number five. That's where that kind
of line of demarcation is so I think KD is
plenty good enough.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
It's just about what heights the team.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Can reach collectively, which is going to come in large
part down to what style do they choose to play
on offense and how well it all comes together on
that end of the floor in terms of their continuity
and how quickly they figure things out. Don't understand next question.
Don't understand some of your Donovan Mitchell arguments. He played
four less minutes per game than the year before, four
(18:15):
and a half minutes less than two years ago. That's
the main reason his total usage numbers were down. That's
just an eleven percent decrease in his minutes, and his
time of possession per game decreased by twenty two percent.
So I don't care about the minutes going down. By
all indications, even just watching the calves, Donovan Mitchell had
(18:36):
the ball less. He was clearly in a different role.
It wasn't simply just that his minutes were cut down.
He literally dropped in time of possession by almost a fourth.
That is a huge change and approach from Donovan Mitchell
year over year.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Next question.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
I'm as big of a Lebron fan as anyone, but
I can't agree with him being higher on the list
than Donovan Mitchell. You mentioned, Lebron finished sixth and MVP voting,
while Mitchell finished hot five. Donovan Mitchell led his team
to the number one seed and statistically the second highest
rated offense of all time. Additionally, if this list is
based on the player you want from October to June,
then health has to matter. Spider played seventy one games
last season, was healthy going into the playoffs, and average thirty.
(19:16):
It seems unfair to blame anything on him regarding their
playoff run last season, seeing as he was without his
wingman and his secondary playmaker Garland for the entire playoffs,
and he still had a damn near fifty point game
and is a notorious playoff riser. Think back to the
bubble again. I love Lebron, but he hasn't been fully
healthy going into either of the last two playoffs, and
you wonder if he can maintain the intensity as a
primary secondary option for four series. It's tough to bank
(19:39):
on a fully healthy Lebron season through the playoffs, whereas
Spider is smacking his prime, So I'm taking him for
health and availability. Thanks and keep up the great work.
Best basketball in the game. Thank you so much for
the kind words. We're going to really dive into this
one because I think it's an interesting debate, the rivalries,
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Number three.
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slash audio. There are a couple things that I disagree
(21:31):
with for you, like spite of playing seventy one games,
was a little out of the ordinary. He typically does
miss significant chunks of the season. That was one of
the seasons where he played more than usual, and even
though he averaged high scoring numbers, I didn't think he
did an amazing job in terms of flow of the game,
like floor management type stuff like we talked about when
(21:53):
we were doing the Donovan Mitchell video, and even though
he put up big scoring numbers the team, even though
he was surrounded by a lot of shooting and quality
role men talent, the Cavs did not put up good
offensive ratings when Donovan Mitchell was in control of the offense. So, like,
I push back on a couple of those specific things,
but I want to dive into this because I don't
see a large gap between the two. Anybody that I
(22:15):
have ranked five to twelve, I could see a case
for any player to be ranked above any player, Like
there's absolutely a case.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
For Donovan Mitchell to be above Lebron.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
It'd be a harder case to make, but you could
absolutely argue him above a guy like Anthony Edwards. It
could be like he has more reliable short range scoring,
He's got like better floater short range jump shooting. He's
more attentive and disciplined off ball defender. Anthony Edwards makes
a lot of mistakes on that end of the floor. Like,
you could make the case. Again, it's not a case
(22:47):
I would make. I think Aunt is clearly a little
bit better than Donovan Mitchell. But the point is is
like anywhere from five to twelve, you could argue anybody
over anybody, Like, if you're gonna make a case for
Lebron to be down at twelve, you're going to focus
on some of the inconsistencies in the regular season with
his effort or some of the stuff with his age.
(23:07):
And if you're going to argue him up to five,
you're going to be like, well, the guy that was
playing in the first round against Denver two years ago
looked like a bona fide top tier superstar, and like,
when you have that, dude, you just give yourself a
really good chance.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Right, You're going to make cases either way.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
And again, the case against health or excuse me, the
case against Lebron is health. As you mentioned, Lebron at
his top end, the guy we saw in February, he's
one of the five best players in the world, but
there's no guarantee that he'll be at that level when
you get to the playoffs. And you're right, I thought
that in twenty twenty three when he had the foot injury,
(23:44):
he wasn't even close. He was like more like a
third tier superstar because he had this broken foot and
he could barely move and it was affecting him in
a bunch of areas of his game. I thought he
was at that level in twenty twenty four. It was
sneaky one of his better playoff series, just got nuked
by a couple of Jamal Murray game winners, but they
led the majority of the series. He averaged twenty eight points,
(24:05):
seven rebounds, and nine assists on sixty four percent tru shooting.
He hit clutch shot after clutch shot after clutch shot.
It just the Nuggets did more on offense at the
end of those games. It just wasn't enough to win
the series. And again, Denver's one of the great teams
of this era and they're defending champs at that point
in time, right, and I thought he was fine against Minnesota.
(24:26):
He was right at that second tier superstar level, certainly
better than he was in twenty twenty three when they
made the Western Conference Finals run, but not as good
as he was in twenty twenty four. So to your point,
it's kind of like a roll of the dice with
Lebron as far as which player you're gonna get when
you get to the postseason. But that's the first point
that I have to hone in on here. Lebron's floor
(24:50):
is just so high as a basketball player still to
this day, Like injured foot Lebron in the Western Conference
Finals run five points per game on fifty eight percent
turre shooting. Again, not the thirty points per game on
fifty seven percent ture shooting that Donovan Mitchell just put up,
but still really good. Scoring twenty five points per game
(25:10):
on fifty eight percent your shooting. Go look, just just
go look at the NBA dot com website, sort by
points per game and look at how many players were
averaging that type of scoring on that type of efficiency.
In this year's postseason run ten rebounds per game and
seven assists per game. Ten rebounds per game is a
huge foundational boost to a basketball team. And like say
(25:34):
what you want to say about Lebron's regular season defensive effort,
He's still a very good playoff defender to this day,
while helping to anchor your defensive rebounding while becoming an
excellent catch and shoot player. Last two playoff runs, he's
eighteen for thirty seven on catch and shoot jump shots.
It's forty nine percent. He can still generate offense, not
at the level that Donovan Mitchell does now, but still
(25:54):
really good at it because of his playmaking talent and
his size and strength and like yeah, like Donovan Mitchell
had a more impressive regular season. He led a kick
ass Cleveland Cavaliers team to a phenomenal season, but it's
important to acknowledge that that was an excellent Cavs team.
Darius Garland's phenomenal ability to just beat people off the
(26:16):
dribble and slice teams up in the paint made made
things easier for everybody. Evan Mobley becoming like a legit
awesome two way player, Jared Allen established himself as one
of the better regular season centers in the NBA. They're
insane depth of three and d off ball talent that
Kobe Altman put together. It was an awesome team. That
(26:36):
roster actually makes a shit ton of sense for Lebron James.
A point guard who can break the defense down, elite
defenders that can shoot, elite defenders in the front line,
that anchor things that can handle some of the physicality,
tons of high level off ball role player talent. That's
literally why this summer, when Lebron and all the rumors
around the Lakers started popping up, everyone's like hmm, what
(26:58):
if he went to Cleveland because it just makes so
much basketball sets And again, like Lebron, even on the
low end of what you're gonna get in the postseason,
his floor is just still so high and you might
just get one of the top six or seven players
in the league when you get there, which is a
ceiling that I don't think Donovan Mitchell can reach. So like,
(27:21):
I just still think Lebron's a better basketball player than
Donovan Mitchell, even at his old age. And for the record,
I believe if you swapped him right now, like right now,
even with the Jankee lineup stuff, you'd have to move
Strews to the two and play Lebron at the three
next to Mobley and Allen. It'd be a little bit funky.
I think that's a better team. Frankly, I'd make that
(27:45):
team a gigantic favorite to win the Eastern Conference, and
I'd give them a substantially better chance to win the title.
I like, I think Lebron is a bit better than Donovan,
but I also think the fit, the surrounding talent, all
that shooting a point that can help break the defense down.
Like I even think just in pure basketball fit that
(28:06):
matches up better with Lebron in Cleveland than Donovan Mitchell
does in Cleveland. So yeah, I again, that's just my take.
You're not wrong for putting Donovan Mitchell above Lebron. Again,
I think there's a clear case you can make. I
think it's a defensible position. But I still think Lebron's
a better basketball player than Donovan Mitchell. By the way,
I'm gonna be hitting him very soon, so it's not
like I have him astronomically high. I just have him
(28:27):
ahead of the guys that I have below him on
the list right now. Next question, Austin Reeves and Jared
Vanderbilt for Jaden McDaniels. I see this as a mutually
beneficial trade for both teams. What are your thoughts. It's
an interesting trade on the surface, especially when you view
it through just a short term lens. Right, Like Austin
(28:48):
Reeves provides secondary ball handling to a Minnesota team that
desperately needs that kind of like skill guard off of
Anthony Edwards right, and Jaden McDaniels makes the Lakers Stantiley
more athletic and gives them that starting caliber small forward
that they desperately need. But it comes with a fatal
flaw for both teams. For the Lakers, part of the
(29:11):
reason why they value Austin Reeves is the proven pathway
to success with Luka Dancic, which is another kind of
like pound the ball type of shot creator that can run, spread,
pick and roll with similar types of players that Luca
plays with, and just run a reasonable fact simile of
what Luca does to spell Luca when he's off ball
(29:31):
and to carry the offense when Luca's off the floor.
I think the Lakers view Austin Reeves as their Kyrie
Irving or their Jalen Brunson in terms of being that
secondary ball And now there's a much more complicated conversation
we can have about whether or not Austin's capable of that.
Jalen Brunson is top ten on this list this year,
(29:51):
and Kyrie Irving is one of the best number twos
of all time as a guy who's literally won a
championship in that role. And I don't think anybody's under
any delusions thinking that Austin Reeves is better than Kyrie Irving,
and I don't think any of us are thinking that right.
So there's a complicated conversation you could get into, which
is like, are the Lakers making the right decision betting
(30:14):
on Austin Reeves being their number two with Luca?
Speaker 1 (30:16):
But I think that's what they see him as.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I think that's what they see So I don't think
they're going to make a move that trades Austin Reeves
unless they're getting that guy back, the guy who's going
to be Luca's number two, or unless they have a
clear plan like, oh, this guy's gonna come sign with
us or whatever. It might be some sort of intel,
some sort of plan to replace that guy who's secondary
(30:40):
off of Luca right when Lebron retires or before. If
they don't have that, I don't think they're going to
trade Austin. And then the second piece of it is,
if you trade Jaden McDaniels, the Timberwolves suddenly have a
gaping hole at the small at the small forward position.
Like ar Vanderbilt, you included him in that deal. If
(31:03):
he started next to Julius Randall, I think that would
be a spacing disaster, especially with Rudy Gobert on the floor.
I don't think Terrence Shannon is ready for a starting
role yet. If you start Dante DiVincenzo, you're gonna start
having size issues. I just think it would be plugging
one hole but creating another hole in the process. So
I just don't think it makes sense there. If the
Lakers are going to make a move for like an
(31:26):
elite starting two or three, somebody in the JD McDaniels,
ilk even like Herb Jones, and they're not gonna move
on like an Andrew Wiggins something along those lines because
he's too old. I think they're gonna have to wait
till the middle of the season. I don't see anything
that makes sense right now, because again, they have to
have a plan for a ball handler coming back, or
they need to be able to get that player without
(31:48):
including Austin Reeves, which then puts you into a different
class of player right or at least a player that's
not yet available that can drive the market price down.
They're gonna have to wait till something takes shape elsewhere
around the league, like oh, the Pacers fall out the
gates and decide they're willing to get rid of an
Aaron Nee Smith for example, like or like Andrew Nevhart
(32:09):
would be like a pipe dream because he'd be a
guy that could also be that secondary ball handler off
of Luca. But like you're if you could get a
player like that, it's gonna have to materialize at some
point down the line, because I just don't think it
exists right this right at this point, and I think
it's probably more likely because of the Lakers are so
hesitant to give up draft assets at this point, holding
(32:30):
out for the superstar that they're gonna pair Luca with.
I think it's probably more likely that they end up
getting older options, like someone like a Conavious Callwell Pope
out of Memphis right like on a buyout, or maybe
you because CACP has a player option after this coming
season for over twenty million dollars, So like maybe you
(32:50):
ship out expirings guys like Gabe Vincent and Max Kliba
and you just tell Memphis like, we're not giving you
anything else, but we'll take CASEP and clear your books
next summer and we'll take ACPs as a starting too.
That would be the kind of deal that I think
is more likely for the Lakers than something that's kind
(33:11):
of splash year and bigger, because I just think that
they're trying to play the slow game with Luca, which
I think again the problem with playing the slow game
with Luca is whatever you anticipate, you can get that
big carrot that you're thinking about that's going to drive
all the success in the Luka doncic Era. You got
to also factor in that you're losing an All NBA
player like Lebron is probably going to be an All
(33:33):
NBA player this season, and that might be the last time.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
And whenever Lebron.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Leaves, whether he gets hurt this year or the like
gets hurt next year, or just decides to retire at
some point, whenever Lebron's done, you're removing an All NBA
player from this roster. And so that's kind of why
I view the overcautiousness as a little bit of a
flawed strategy. That's not to say that you need to
(34:00):
go mortgage your future. As I've said, I don't think
the Lakers need to go move Austin a first round
pick and all these swaps and second round draft compensation
and everything in under the sun to go get a
thirty year old Andrew Wiggins. I'm not saying that I've
said on the record, I don't think that the Lakers
should move on Andrew Wiggins unless they can do it
(34:23):
without including the first round pick, because I understand their situation.
I would just include Dalton and maybe a swap and
a second round pick and see if you can squeeze
Wiggins out of them, you know, like, because obviously making
a move for Wiggins is a win now type of
move that doesn't have as much long term upside.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
But I am.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Saying that if an elite let's say a Jaden McDaniels,
for example, comes available, someone of that ilk Herb Jones,
whoever it might be, and you can get that deal
done with the first round pick and you keep Austin.
I the Lakers would hold on to the first round
pick because of their pipe dreams of Giannis, And I'm
(35:05):
saying I think that a first round pick spent on
a twenty six year old, legitimate, awesome three and D
guy at the small forward position would be mutually beneficial
to this era and the future.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
On the one hand, all of a sudden.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
You've got Lebron and Luca and this kick ass three
and D player that you can go try to make
a run with right now. And that guy's an asset.
He's a three and d player in his twenties. He's
worth while. He's worth something. So even if you decided
to go make a move for a superstar down the line,
he's a guy you can include in a deal like
that that the other team is going to be like, well,
(35:42):
we're getting back a twenty eight year old all defense guy.
This is something I can sell to my fans, right.
I think that the asset management piece and the lack
of valuation from the lakers of super high levels starters
as opposed to superstar talent. I think that lack of
(36:05):
value placed on super high level starters is going to
be a mistake in this Luca era. I think Luca
is such a unique star. He's such an offense in
and of himself that he's not as dependent on super
super high level superstar support. That's why he can make
get it done with Kyrie Irving or get it done
with Austin and like or not with Austin a guy
like Jalen Brunson, right, and by the way, like that
(36:28):
Celtics team is an all time great. They lost Luca
personally needed to make some improvements, especially as a defender
and getting into better shape. There are checkpoints that Luca
has to hit in order for that build to work
in order to win a championship. But like, Luca kind
of grants you the grace of not necessarily needing a
top tier superstar next to him. Same with Jokic, Right,
(36:52):
That's how Jokic won the title. He's such an offense
to himself. He's such an elite, high end engine that
he can win with really high level starters rather than needing,
you know, to have Giannis next to him. Right, that's
the unique thing that these ultra indomitable offensive engines bring
(37:14):
to the table. And if Luca gets in great shape
and he doesn't tire out at the end of games,
and he gets better on defense, I do think he
can win a title surrounded by super high level starters
and a legitimate secondary creator the ilk of the Kyrie
Brunson variety. Right, So, like that to me is the pathway.
And so I think that's where I just differ with
(37:35):
the Lakers, and they're kind of big picture like basketball philosophy.
It's like, I don't think the Lakers have a big
picture basketball philosophy, or at least if they do, it's
being drowned out by the superiors. Like I know, there
are really smart people that work in the Laker front
office underneath Rob Polinka, and like I just I am
not sure if the Rob Jeanie, you know, Kurt rambis
(37:59):
craft out has the appropriate vision for what works in
the modern him yet even under Luca. And so that's
what kind of freaks me out a little bit, is
like I don't I think if you ask them like
what Herb Jones is worth, they would probably speak more
like they would not be willing to spend as much
(38:20):
as some of the smarter teams in the league would
be willing to spend to get a guy like that,
when the reality is is alongside Luka Doncic, when he
would generate Herb a million butt naked corner threes and
his ability to guard on the perimeter and funnel into
a rim protector and all those sorts of things that
Herb Jones can do in the context of Luca, that's
(38:43):
worth more than even if you picked up Herb and
put him somewhere else. Like, Luca is such a unique
player in the way that he drives value for that
type of role player, And I just hope that the
Lakers value that sort of thing eventually, Jason, I don't
know if this mail bag, if this is mail bag,
(39:03):
but I've watched Curry and Lebron go at it for
the last five years, and I've noticed that Curry tends
to outplay him in regard to impact. A lot of
people don't want to accept it, but I seriously think
he's been better than Lebron for the last couple of years.
A lot of general fans point to stats to show
that it's close, but in my opinion, Curry's impact has
been great, far greater than Lebron's, and I've noticed that
Lebron's stats make him often better than he I can't
(39:27):
this is what must have just been a type of
it says make him out out to be better than
he is. In the last three to four years. He
slacks off a lot on defense, and his points seem
to be a bit hollow or empty. Don't get me wrong,
but he's still been a top five player the last
five seasons. But I could I could definitely be wrong,
but I was wondering on your thoughts about how about this,
especially since most NBA fans don't watch games and just
(39:49):
point to stats to show how close it is. So
more or less, you're just saying you think Lebron or
STEP's been better than Lebron for the last couple of years.
You said far better. I don't think it's far better,
but I actually agree with you. I think Steph has
been better than Lebron over the last few years. Lebron
is super old now and he's just more prone to
injuries that makes it harder for him to.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Reach his peak.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
His peak is still every bit as high as everyone
else in the league. Like again, last year in February,
there was there wasn't an NBA player playing better than
Lebron last year in February, but then he got hurt again, right,
And I mean, you guys are starting to see this,
you Steph fans, like Steph has been a monster, but
he just got hurt. He's thirty seven now, Like this
is kind of what happens when you get into these years.
(40:33):
And we'll see if that ends up being a fluke.
And it was just because he had to carry such
crazy load right in the run up to the playoffs,
because of their predicament, because they waited so long to
make a trade. And maybe Steph will be healthy from
here on out.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
We'll see you.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
But like I do agree that Steph has been better
in the last few years than Lebron has been. Like
from i'd say twenty twenty two to twenty twenty four, Yeah,
that stretch.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
He's been a more reliably great player.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
It's actually why it's so difficult to have these kinds
of discussions with people. Everyone just focused on the wins
and losses when basketball is just so much more complicated
than that. For example, the Lakers led by Lebron, beat
the Warriors in twenty twenty three led by Steph, but
I thought Steph was a better player than Lebron in
(41:20):
that series. Lebron was on a bad foot. He was
struggling to score effectively. Lebron was great in Game six,
especially like the Lebron was awesome at times in that series,
and again in Game six, he was a fucking monster.
But Steph was the better player in that series. But
the Lakers were the better team and the better team won. Similarly,
(41:42):
you'll hear Warriors fans constantly talk about how they went
three to one against Lebron in the finals. I thought
Lebron was the best player in all four of those series.
The Warriors were just obviously. Similarly to the Lakers Warriors
series in twenty twenty three, the Warriors were just obviously
better teams. The twenty fifteen Calves were decimated by injuries.
(42:03):
In that series, Kyrie and Kevin Love out, there was
a massive talent gap, and then the KD Warriors are
literally the greatest roster ever assembled in the history of
the NBA. People were just being dense for whatever reason,
at least among the Warriors fans that look back on
that era. I mean, if the Lakers traded for Yannis
(42:24):
tomorrow and Luca and Yannis knocked Jokic out of the playoffs,
that doesn't mean that Luca or Janis are better than Jokic.
That's incredibly stupid logic. But for whatever reason, Warriors fans
make that very case when arguing Steph over Lebron. When
(42:46):
the second and third best players in the league at
the peak of their powers played on the same team,
they beat Lebron twice. So my take is for the
entirety of Lebron's prime, Lebron was a better player than Steph,
but Steph in his late prime has been better than
thirty eight thirty nine, forty year old Lebron. And lastly,
(43:09):
the gap in both of these cases is close in
my opinion, which I think is a testament to the
greatness of both of them. So, for instance, like I
do think Lebron is better than Steph during that whole era,
but Steph got close. He got close to the guy
many folks consider to be the best basketball player ever.
That's an incredible feather in Steph's cap. That's a big
(43:29):
part of why I have Steph as the fifth best
perimeter player of all time. He legit competed like Whent
toe to toe and competed against the goat.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
It's remarkable.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Similarly, Lebron's staying close to Steph and the stars at
the top of the like it's close. Like Steph's been
better than Lebron the last couple of years, but Lebron
still made second team All NBA and was sixth and
MVP voting last year, and like has definitively been right
up there hanging on for dear life with those guys.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
That he like.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
It's he continues to make All NBA every year. He
just got second team. It's a truly remarkable accomplishment for
a forty year old basketball player. Him remaining at that
level for as long as he has is literally the
biggest part of why I view him as the goat.
If I'm starting to franchise from scratch and I'm guaranteed
(44:29):
a ten year stretch where he's the best player in
the world and another decade plus where he's an All
NBA player, I'm giving myself a lot of chances to
build a championship team. No one's come close to that.
And last little bonus, Steph topic here again. He just
suffered that injury in the postseason, which kind of takes
(44:50):
away from this, But he's putting together a sneaky little
case for longevity on his own, like amongst small guards
at his age, to make second team All NBA. Like
most small guards fall apart rapidly in this phase of
their career, and Steph just hasn't. I'm curious to see
(45:11):
how long he'll drag out this level of play, because,
like I still have him pretty high on the list
this year, I have him above Lebron again, But at
the same time, he just got hurt and he just
missed a playoff series, so hopefully that isn't a sign
of things to come.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
I'm hoping, Like I.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
Said that that was more to do with the Warriors
waiting forever to finally get Steph a second star, and
he wore his body down to the point where he
had to play super hard at the end of the
season instead of chilling and getting ready for the playoffs.
So like, whether or not it was a fluke will
play a big role in where I rank Steph next summer, right, like,
if he gets hurt again this year, then like if
he gets hurt again this year, or if he's dealing
(45:45):
with the nagging injury that causes him to play below
his peak when we get to the postseason, all of
a sudden, those same cases you're making about Lebron and
his health and his ability to stay at his peak
now apply to Steph as well. So that's gonna be
That's gonna be something I have an eye on this year.
I am on Steph being healthy, and that's why I
have staff as high as he is. You guys will
see where he ranks on the list this year when
we get there, But like, I'm gonna be keeping an
(46:08):
eye on that because I think that's gonna play a
big role in where ranks next year. Last question, non
basketball question. So as a fan for years now, I'm
happy for you and the misses as you guys embark
on a new chapter in life and congratulations.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
However, and I don't even want to ask this, but
I need to know, does this mean Two Sons podcast
is dead? I love that channel, So some of you
guys listen to my other podcasts that I do. It's
just kind of like a passion project. On the side,
I don't do it nearly as much. We only do
like maybe thirty episodes a year, but I cover Star
Wars in particular, but like all the big lore stuff
(46:42):
like Lord of the Rings and Game Thrones, that sort
of stuff, major TV shows and movies and stuff. With
my best friend Luke, and we haven't done an episode
in a while, in large part because I was in
my busy season and right after that I immediately moved across
state lines, so it was just like super like just
a tough transition period. And Luke just had a new baby,
(47:04):
so like he's been dealing with that too, so we've
been kind of like not working for a while here.
But to be clear, and we did, we covered and Or,
but covering and Or was the last time that we
did episodes, and so a couple of things. First of all,
Luke's my best friend and me moving to Denver doesn't
change that, and we're gonna continue to record. We got
(47:25):
him set up with remote equipment and I'll just be
doing two Sons podcasts from here and we'll do it
over zoom calls. I think it'll be even funner, even
more fun for both of us because it'll be opportunities
for us to hang out again, because we'll obviously be
hanging out less being you know, nine hundred miles apart.
But yeah, we're gonna The main thing is, I'm actually
(47:46):
trying to work out something with him on Tuesday or
Wednesday this week because I watched the first two episodes
of Alien Earth on Hulu and I loved it, and
episode three is tomorrow night, and so I'm trying to
get Luke.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
I think he's on board.
Speaker 2 (47:59):
But I think we're gonna do an episode here in
the next few days that covers Alien Earth. So if
you guys want to watch along with us and just
kind of hang out on the podcast, we'll be keep
an eye on my Twitter feed over the course in
the next few days. And I'll tweet out the link.
But if you want to find the channel, it's just
two Suns podcast. It's a whole YouTube channel if you
go back there. Like every Star Wars book we've read,
(48:21):
we've done an episode on Star Wars movies, that sort
of thing. Like We've done a ton of content over
the years that I think, especially when you're doing TVs
and TV and movie.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
Shows, that just still holds up.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
So you guys can check out the older content there
and then again hopefully within the next three days or so,
we'll have our new episode there. But Nicholas, thanks so
much for supporting us and all of you guys that
do listen to that show. Thanks and if you guys
want to check it out, you guys know where to
find it. But that's all I have for today is
always as sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting me and
suporting the show. We'll be back on Monday with number nine,
(48:54):
number nine, and I will see you guys no. Number
eight because number nine is Jaylen Brunts and we just
hit so I'll see you guys on my day for
number eighth,
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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