August 25, 2025 • 41 mins
Jason McIntyre wonders if it's time for the Chicago Bears to worry about Caleb Williams, discusses the possibility of the Detroit Lions taking a step back this season, and The Athletic's Mike Jones joins the show.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
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for listening to The Herd podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Welcome back our number two here on the Herd. A
beautiful Monday morning in Los Angeles. It's a bit of
a heat wave out here at Touch eighty over the
weekend ride in the South Bay brutal.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
What I am you gonna do? Zsidbacka taran for Colin Coward.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Join by Rachel Nichols telling us Brett farm log stories.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
She's got a lot of good stuff.
Speaker 5 (00:46):
Cover the NFL for more than a decade. There's a
lot of good stories buried in there, for sure.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Goodness, we got Mike Jones of the Athletic coming up,
the Samon Rogers stuff. I was thinking about it on
the elevator ride. I'm not gonna fire it now. We
touched on earlier. We'll we'll get to Aaron Rodgers here shortly,
but I want to start briefly with a team and
a player near and dear to Colin Cowhard, and that's
(01:12):
Caleb Williams of the Bears. Listen, the preseason has basically
all the oxygen has been sucked out by like four guys,
Michael Parsons, Shador Sanders, Caleb Williams definitely leading the charge,
Aaron Rodgers' distant third or fourth.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
But this Caleb Williams stuff is just I don't know
what to make of it. Again.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Two years ago, the talk was, oh, Caleb boy, he
could be the face of the NFL in four years.
We get so freaking excited about these guys. For one
season of college football, some dynamic throws.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
At Caleb Williams.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
He was awesome at times for USC, then he fell
into like the backyard quarterback stuff. And now he gets
a good coach and we're expecting greatness. And the last
month has been anything but great from Caleb Williams and
cryptic stuff from Ben Johnson.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
All Right, I'm not going to.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Be out here hammering Caleb Williams again. Last week I
mentioned Johnny Manzel and all the sick of fans in
Chicago like came after me. Folks, listen to Ben Johnson
after their preseason game against the Chiefs.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
You listen to this Offensively, the first two possessions was
really sloppy football that you know has plugged us in
and out of camp so far. It is disappointing to
me offensively for sure, because that's I thought that we'd
kind of worked our way out of that. The first
quarter was really any indication it's not good enough. So
(02:41):
we got to get better in a hurry. But yeah,
we got to make sure that we start faster on
offense and on defense.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Oh boy, Now listen, this is his first rodeo as
a head coach. Oh see in Detroit behind walk around
guy Dan Campbell, who we will get you interesting story
on Campbell later in the show. But is Ben Johnson
coming in a little bit hot?
Speaker 6 (03:05):
Here?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
A lot of veiled comments about Caleb And I don't
want to I don't know Caleb. I've never spoken to him,
but I don't want to presume his psyche. But there
were some things we saw in college. Hey maybe it
was a college kid where he didn't exactly react great
when things were not going his way. And I'm gonna
(03:27):
play a clip for you here about Ben Johnson talking
about someone. But before I play it, we're running highlights
from their Chiefs game. The very first play was a
fumble with Caleb Williams under center. Now was on the handoff,
but still that's not Chris, that's sloppy. Bro, your a
second year quarterback, your face of the franchise. Bears fans
(03:47):
are like always you're gonna throw for four thousand yards?
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Who cares?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Can we get the snap and the cadence down? Okay,
so here's a quote. Listen to Ben Johnson. I'm not
gonna tell you the answer until the end, but think
about who he's talking about here.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
I've really been blown away by his approach from the
spring to the start of camp to where we are now.
He does a tremendous job knowing what to do, how
to do it, and getting it done.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Okays, he's not talking about Caleb Williams.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
He's gassing up his backup quarterback.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
As Rachel said first hour, the backup quarterback is always
the most popular guy in town. That's Tyson Beaijin, whose
father was like a proclaimed arm wrestler.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
And oh, by the way, Beijen just got a new deal. Huh,
what are you giving a backup quarterback. Who I mean, I'm.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Not of the belief that he's like one of the
elite quarterbackups in the league. But that had to raise
some eyebrows in the Caleb Williams camp. No paying this backup.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
It's my job.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Yeah, we get that, but we want some insurance. That's
not a good sign. Now again, this is all preseason.
Maybe the live bullets start firing and Caleb is unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
But uh, I've got my doubts, folks, I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
All right, Let's bring in Mike Jones from the Athletic
Colors the NFL covering the NFL for the last fifteen years,
worked at the Washington Post. Someone here knows someone here
read that newspaper growing up, and someone here worked for
that newspaper.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Mike, how are you, man?
Speaker 6 (05:20):
I'll go, well, how are you guys doing this morning?
Speaker 3 (05:21):
You know, I can't complain. It's Monday.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Football's almost here, We're ten days away from the opener.
I do have to ask, though, you know, you do
a lot of podcasts, You're going on a lot of
TV radio shows. Are you surprised by the amount of
questions about Shador Sanders? A fifth round pick who is
fourth on the depth dar like he's the topic Tojre
in the NFL.
Speaker 7 (05:43):
Yeah, I mean I have written a lot about him,
you know, coming out of the draft, and there's been
just a huge buzz about the Sanders him and also
his brother as well. And you know, yeah, I was
talking to somebody just this morning and about all the
just the screw rutiny that is surrounding him and the
Browns and the handling of him, and I'm like, you know,
(06:05):
when you really think about it, this is a fifth
round pick. Like we don't really talk about fifth round
pick quarterbacks and the other opportunities are limited, but this
isn't a normal fifth round pick. This is the guy
that we thought would go a lot higher and whose
skill set we are led to believe is you know, much.
Speaker 6 (06:20):
Better than a regular fifth round pick.
Speaker 7 (06:22):
So again, the brand, the name, everything has just made
this a bigger deal.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
He is.
Speaker 7 (06:29):
I'm putting together my list of twenty five most intriguing
players entering the twenty twenty five season, and I'm not
gonna you.
Speaker 6 (06:36):
Know, she's probably on that list.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Probably the top five. That was interesting.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
You use a word, Mike, You said brand a rookie
quarterback who was taking on the fifth round has a brand.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
I'm trying to think.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Josh Allen when he came into the league from Wyoming,
what was his brand?
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Did Patrick Mahomes have one? Out of Texas Tech? Like
the fact that.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
He has a brand like great for him, But I
don't that that's actually what you want your quarterback having
coming out of college, is it.
Speaker 7 (07:04):
Well? I mean this is a new even, you know,
a new age even from when Josh Allen and when
Patrick Mahoons were coming out.
Speaker 6 (07:13):
Yeah, they didn't have brands.
Speaker 7 (07:15):
You know, there wasn't the whole There was social media,
but not the level that it is now where guys
have YouTube channels and nil deals and all kinds of
things like that. You know, this guy's got a Hall
of Fame football coach father. You know, it's so football
player turned football coach as a father.
Speaker 6 (07:33):
So yeah, there's a whole lot more with here.
Speaker 7 (07:35):
But I think that the thing that is most important
is does he have a work ethic?
Speaker 6 (07:39):
You know, yeah, he's got a brand, does have work ethics?
Speaker 7 (07:41):
Does he have you know, teachability and all those things,
the athleticism, everything it takes to be an NFL player.
As long as you have that, then teams don't care
if you have a brand. But you know, you're talking
about Kayleb Williams.
Speaker 6 (07:53):
Uh. He certainly, you.
Speaker 7 (07:54):
Know, had kind of a brand coming out, and you
know it's not always about that stuff. That's what you
can do on this higher level than what you were
in college.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
You're you're right, it is kind of a new era.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
I think Johnny Manzel probably had a brand, is that
fair to say?
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Coming out of A and M. I don't know if
it was a good brand, right, but it was a brand.
Speaker 8 (08:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (08:15):
There was a kind of a cult following type of
thing about him. You know, I don't think it's quite
the whole, you know, is the same level as Shadors,
But yeah, kind of.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Like that Trevor Lawrence kind of a he's in is
he a bust or not?
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Cata?
Speaker 2 (08:32):
But I don't think he has a brand. He just
hasn't been a good quarterback. I mean, he's not in
jeopardy of getting bench. But let's spin it forward, a
do you think the Browns keep Shador? Do you think
they Is it possible I floated the idea of trading
him to the Raiders just getting him off the roster,
getting whatever you can, just take a seventh round pick,
will take the loss. I don't know what's your guests
(08:54):
for Shador week one?
Speaker 6 (08:56):
No, I mean I think that he's on the team.
Speaker 7 (08:57):
I'm not saying that he's going to be active in
week one, but I think that he's going to be
on this team. There are still people in that building
who really believe in his potential. And look, if he's
not ready, it's okay. They have a really tough stretch
of their season here to open the schedule.
Speaker 6 (09:15):
You would be much more.
Speaker 7 (09:16):
Comfortable with Joe Flacco going up against some of those
defenses like you know, you know in Detroit and Green
Bay and Baltimore.
Speaker 6 (09:25):
Why throw a rookie to the Wolves like that?
Speaker 7 (09:28):
But there's also questions about the handling of Shador and
the developmental plan and if the Browns are all on
the same page on how to get him ready, you know,
and so there are questions about that. But I think that, yeah,
he's going to be on this team. We'll see what
the progress is. I wouldn't be surprised, you know, late
this year we wind up seeing him on the field.
Speaker 6 (09:48):
It wouldn't surprise me at all interesting.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Let's go to Aaron Rodgers briefly, hopefully only briefly. He
kind of was talking on a podcast with DK Metcalf
and DK Metcalf Flow today, maybe maybe you're staying beyond
this year, you know, maybe we'll run it back, and
Aaron Rodgers said, maybe, Mike, what are we to take
of Aaron Rodgers at this point? I mean we haven't
(10:14):
even got to the him versus Arthur Smith stuff that's
going to bubble up inevitably, But like, where are you
on Rogers and Pittsburgh are they?
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Is he going to make your most intriguing list?
Speaker 6 (10:23):
Yeah? Look he everything is great right now.
Speaker 7 (10:27):
I was up there for training camp in Latrow a
couple of weeks ago, and you know he's talking about
loving like remembering how to play video games.
Speaker 9 (10:34):
And playing cards with the guys and connecting and being
in this, you know, back with the Stables story franchise,
kind of liking Green Bay with the head coach he
really respects and all that stuff.
Speaker 6 (10:46):
But there are no bullets are flying yet, and so
we'll see.
Speaker 7 (10:50):
What happens when that offensive line struggles to protect him
and the run game is just kind of man and
you know, and this defense provide the backing it needs.
It seems like they've added piece like Jalen Ramsey and Sleigh,
and they retained TJ.
Speaker 6 (11:04):
Watt and extended him. But still there are a lot of.
Speaker 7 (11:06):
Questions here, and so I wrote about that, like, hey,
the field good vibes are good, but that's going to
take way more than that, and it's more to do
what's around Aaron Rodgers. That's going to say how successful
this is. And just like you said, we saw it
in New York. Everything was great and then when things
started getting hairy, there was fingerpointing. And Rogers is not
(11:27):
afraid to pull back the curtain and call out dysfunction,
and so we could see that happen in Pittsburgh. Yes,
we think of them as really stable under Mike Tomlin.
You nose losing seasons. But if this thing is not
playing out really well, we could see a frustrated Rogers
definitely air some dirty laundry.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Oh can't wait for that one. Let's go to Washington.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Terry mcclaurin just got his new deal today, three years,
ninety six mil. Happy for Washington. Rachel has some concerns
about the defense. I am a little skeptical.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
I grew up in the DC area.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
A lot of my buddies al doing that again. Run
to the NFC Championship would be difficult. You wrote a
piece on Daniels last month that I thought was a
good one.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
I'm curious your thoughts on Washington.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Can they even come close to duplicating last year's heroics.
Speaker 6 (12:14):
That's going to be tough.
Speaker 7 (12:15):
You know, they came out of nowhere. Now they're on
everybody's radar. They can't sneak up on anybody. I think
the moves that they've made in the offseason, Adam Peters
and Dan Quinn as they put this thing together, their
roster is definitely better as a whole. But that doesn't
mean that they're going to have a better season. To
have a better season, they basically have to get back
(12:35):
to the NFC Championship and get to the super Bowl.
That's the only way you top that. Now you have expectations,
you know, so I still think they can win ten games,
but that doesn't mean that they're going to wind up
making a deeper playoff run. I still think that Philadelphia
winds up winning that division. They just are so strong
top to bottom. But it's going to be interesting for
Washington how they continue to evolve, what do they do
(12:57):
to stay a step ahead of the defense Asbury and
Jade Daniels. I think they have the potential to have
a really good season again, but again that's a tougher season,
tougher schedule of games, tougher competition, so it'll be hard
to surpass last year.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Yeah, specifically that defense, like Jayden Daniels just kept bailing
them out last year. I think they had five or
six wins in the final minute or what have you.
I'm looking at that front seven and it's like that
is toothless, like they got old dudes and kind of
not to be disrespectful, just non factors. I mean, Marshawn
Lttimore hasn't been healthy in half a decade. So I
(13:32):
just don't know how they stop anybody. And they're in
a division where the Eagles offense is a juggernaut. Brian
Dable is a sharp guy, Milik neighbors are very good,
and let's be real, Dallas has Dak Pickens and and
Cde Lamb. Like that alone is going to give Washington problems.
So I don't is there a world where they slip
back to third in the division.
Speaker 7 (13:53):
I do think that day in Dallas will be going
back and forth head to head for that number two
spot right there.
Speaker 6 (14:00):
It's possible.
Speaker 7 (14:01):
I agree with you on your concerns about the defense
they brought in von Miller, but I don't know that
he's really.
Speaker 6 (14:06):
The answer as far as a pass rusher.
Speaker 7 (14:09):
You know, it's going to take a lot of creativity
from Dan Quinn once again. Bobby Wagner is a guy
who sets a good tone, but you know he's not
a spring chicken and that secondary.
Speaker 6 (14:20):
You know, there are a lot of questions, and I
don't know.
Speaker 7 (14:22):
They've drafted some young guys and we'll see how they developed,
but I don't know that they were really able to
take this.
Speaker 6 (14:28):
Defense to another level. But I guess they're.
Speaker 7 (14:30):
Hoping with Terry mccluurin, Deebo, Samuel Jayden Daniels, that maybe
their offense can put up more points and so they
won't have to rely on those closet finishes.
Speaker 6 (14:39):
But that's a lot of ifs.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Yeah, let me ask you, Mike, I missed this news
last week.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
All I was out the Colts decided Daniel Jones is
our guy, you know, kind of surprising. But Richardson did
not have an inspiring preseason. He's always hurt. Still not accurate.
So let's give Daniel Jones props forgetting out of Minnesota, right,
he knew he wasn't going to play with McCarthy. There
gets you spot where he can play. But what does
this do for Richardson? Like this is kind of I mean,
(15:05):
they drafted him to be the guy, and now it's
like you can't even beat out Daniel Jones, who, let's
be real, is not a good quarterback.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Is Richardson's time up in Indy or what are you hearing?
Speaker 6 (15:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (15:15):
No, I think that's very concerning because look, obviously he
was a guy that you knew, yes physically a specimen,
had some.
Speaker 6 (15:24):
Great college tape. Doesn't have a whole lot of college tape.
Speaker 7 (15:27):
I don't think he's actually had, you know, I think
it was a stat that I heard last week that
it was he doesn't even have two thousand plays yet
under his belt between college and the NFL.
Speaker 6 (15:38):
So it takes a while to develop.
Speaker 7 (15:40):
And so you're hoping that you do the things, all
the things, carry yourself like a pro and continue to develop.
Speaker 6 (15:46):
But from the sounds of things. He was not doing
all of those things.
Speaker 7 (15:49):
That's the reason why last year he got pinched because
they were hoping to get through to him and kind
of get his attention, and they went to Joe Flacco
for a little bit here and.
Speaker 6 (15:56):
Again, the durability is an issue.
Speaker 7 (15:57):
You know, the coaches say the best ability is ability,
and if you're not able to stay on the field
not carrying yourself like a pro, then you're going to
go to a guy.
Speaker 6 (16:05):
And so it's going to be hard to go back.
Speaker 7 (16:08):
To him unless he totally, you know, kind of you know,
gets in line and is doing all the work and
growing through practice reps.
Speaker 6 (16:16):
But that's not the same as game speed. It's going
to be tough.
Speaker 7 (16:19):
Yes, they're going to Daniel Jones, They're going to have
to run the ball a whole lot. I think that's
the blueprint that the Giant showed a couple of years
ago when they made it to the playoffs, squeaked in there.
They relied on Saquon Barkley a whole lot. They didn't
put a whole lot on to Daniel Jones's shoulders. I
think Indy will run, lean on the run game, lean
on their defense and hope that Danielones can just take
care of the football because you know, you're not going
(16:40):
to get a whole lot of touchdown passes out of him,
because that was definitely not something that he was known
for in New York.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Yeah, I got to.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Ask, Mike, did you just listen? Do you answer that?
I'm just trying to think back. We've seen a lot
of these quarterbacks who go top five, top ten, it
seems like more than normal in the last I don't know, five, six,
seven years, and they seem to flop in their first spot,
but they can thrive afterward. Baker Mayfield comes to mind,
(17:07):
Sam Darnold comes to mind, Anthony Richardson, there's others.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
I'm just wondering, do you think what do you think
this is about?
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Is it guys are getting overdrafted? Is it we still
don't know how to identify quarterbacks? What's the issue?
Speaker 6 (17:22):
Well?
Speaker 7 (17:22):
I think that there's this pressure, Okay, we got this
guy we need. You know, lots of times they're drafted
to bad franchises, right, the guys like Patrick Mahomes, who
the Chiefs jumped up to trade and draft him, and
then he sat behind Alex Smith for a year and
was able to develop a lot of these are bad franchises,
except for you know, San Francisco.
Speaker 6 (17:41):
They had Trey Lance, but it wasn't a real.
Speaker 7 (17:46):
Developmental plan for a lot of these guys, and they're
playing sooner than what they should.
Speaker 6 (17:50):
They should Okay, if you're going to.
Speaker 7 (17:51):
Spend that high pick on a guy, okay, but have
a veter in place, let him start. Let this guy learn,
Especially some of these guys like Trey Lance, Anthony Richardson,
who don't have a whole lot of college experience. The
guys who are three and four year starters, it doesn't
happen a whole lot anymore. But those guys are better
off coming into the NFL. Like Jade Daniels had a
lot of experience in college and that's why he was
(18:12):
able to make a better transition. But so many of
these young guys, they're playing sooner than they need to,
and then the patience is not there because coaches don't
have a whole lot of time to save their jobs
before owners get impatient and you know, heads start to roll,
and so it's just a whole mess in the way
that they're drafting, developing or not developing and playing guys
(18:34):
sooner than they should.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Yeah, I'm looking at the list. It's not just a
COVID thing either. There were you know, Bryce Young, by
the way, this could be his last shot, but there's
been other guys, and I'm just you know, you see
names like Josh Rosen, Mitch Trubisky. There's no given that
even Caleb Williams is going to work out in Chicago.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
I don't want to be too negative.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
I know people, Jason, come on, He's got to be fine,
is he?
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Mike?
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I can't say for sure, can you No, we can't
say for sure.
Speaker 7 (19:02):
But the thing is you have to remember he was
in such an awful situation last year. Then you have
like three offensive coordinators throughout the course of the year.
Speaker 6 (19:10):
And so if you're learning and then everything.
Speaker 7 (19:13):
Keeps getting changed, and now you have a new coach,
you going to learn a new language, a new way
of doing things.
Speaker 6 (19:19):
I think that this is going to be a year
of growing pains for him.
Speaker 7 (19:22):
But if he can get on the same page and
understand and take all the tutoring that the math the
mad scientists that Ben Johnson is, then I think it's
possible that we could see him still be Okay, it's
way too early to pull the plug or to panic,
but you have to understand that again, he's having to
relearn a lot of things. Last year we saw him
(19:44):
get sacked more than any other quarterback in the league.
They did upgrade their offensive line, but lots of times
he was trying to make something out of nothing. Think
he could do what he did in USC where he's
running around, you know, across the field and back the
other way. You know, you got defensive linemen that are
faster than that and are going to plant you into
the ground now, So you got to learn to get
rid of the ball quickly and make good decisions. And
(20:04):
that's what he's going to have to understand if he
wants to make it in the NFL.
Speaker 6 (20:08):
And I think it's possible. It's just gonna take some time.
All right.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
We could wrap up, you know, for fantasy purposes.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Some of us may have three or four drafts this week.
Matthew Stafford, what are you hearing on the Rams quarterback?
Because there's a lot of people out here in the
dark thinking like, oh, it's gonna be bad.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Rams did not going to the Super Bowl. But there's
also a whiff of hey man, he's old, he doesn't
want to play in the preseason. He's gonna be fine.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Which side do you fall on here?
Speaker 7 (20:34):
I think that you can be cautiously optimistic that, Okay,
he knows the system inside and out. You know, they're
being extra cautious with him because they know that they
can't afford for him to, you know, get hurt in
the preseason and then be banged up throughout the whole year.
But again, if you were in that situation and it's
(20:56):
that nerve wracking, it just takes one hit in week
one to throw things off the rails.
Speaker 6 (21:01):
And so we'll see what happens.
Speaker 7 (21:03):
I thought when we're entering the off season the way
that they finished last year, I thought, Okay, the Rams
are my pick to win that division.
Speaker 6 (21:10):
They might make some noise. I'm not so confident now.
Speaker 7 (21:13):
I'm a little bit skittish, just because of what we've seen.
We have heard as of late that he is returned
to practice, he's not having any discomfort and things, so
that's positive. But again, he hasn't gotten hit yet, and
so a lot is riding on the health of that back.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
By the way they open up against the Houston Texans,
who maybe have a top four defense in the league,
certainly front four, and they also have Philadelphia in week three,
so you're probably onto something. Mike Stafford's going to get
tested early, all right, Mike Jones, the athletic great stuff man.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Thanks a lot for your time, Mike, all right.
Speaker 6 (21:44):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 10 (21:45):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
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Speaker 8 (21:54):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together we're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You could catch
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Speaker 3 (22:12):
In the world.
Speaker 8 (22:12):
We have a lot of fun talking about the stories
behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture,
stories that well, other shows don't seem to have the
time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends
for the last twenty years and still work together, I
mean that says something, right, So check us out. We
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(22:35):
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Speaker 2 (22:53):
Back here on the Herd. Great stuff from Mike Jones
at the Athletic. A lot of fun topics happening in
the l but also we've got an NBA one.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Let's go to Rachel Nichols with the news.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
No, no, this is the Herd Line news, Jason.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Let's start with the Chiefs. They look sharp this weekend.
Speaker 5 (23:14):
Closed out their preseason with nice stuff from Patrick Mahomes.
He finished with one hundred and forty three yards and
touchdown across three drives.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Against the Bears.
Speaker 5 (23:22):
We've got Mahomes talking about getting back to the Super Bowl,
Andy Reid talking about getting back to the Super Bowl.
Travis Kelcey talking about getting back to the Super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
We've got Las Vegas.
Speaker 5 (23:32):
Jason saying that the Chiefs are the fourth best, fourth
best odds to win the Super Bowl. And yet you,
Jason McIntyre, do you still not believe they're even going
to make the playoffs?
Speaker 3 (23:48):
Yeah, that's my prediction. I've had a couple wrong predictions
of my career. Have you had any ever heard? I mean,
you know, yeah, it happens.
Speaker 10 (23:56):
I just.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
I've gone over it all summer.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yes, I understand Mahomes look good in the preseason finale.
Schedule is not easy. He's faced Lamar Herbert Hurts all early.
I don't know where are you on Kelsey. I know
he's talking about the Super Bowl, but actions over words.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
He's doing photo shoots and.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
He's prancing around the country with his cool girlfriend Taylor.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
So I got no problem with that. But I'm just saying,
like words and actions, I don't know.
Speaker 5 (24:26):
He certainly looks better than he did coming into the
last couple of seasons. So there's the action I'm looking
for is how much does he appear to have been
working out? He was doing a lot of stuff down
in Florida. It seems as if he is refocused going
into this season, and he's earned us taking his word
for it, So I'm okay with that. The problem to
(24:46):
me with the Chiefs, I think they're making the playoffs.
I don't have any question about that, but I would
not say that they are going back to the super Bowl.
They just haven't figured out how to recapture that magic
they have with Patrick Mahomes. The exploded nixt sprade for
this offense has gone down and down and down nine
percent last season. That puts them twenty ninth in the league.
(25:08):
And you are talking about a quarterback that has one
of the most potentials for explosive plays in the entire league.
So you look at who they got in there. I
just I don't think they had a great offseason, are
you of.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
The beliefs Defenses have taken it away from Mahomes and
that was kind of his superpower.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Let me just chuck it up.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
To Tyreek Hill or whoever's going to run under it,
and defense like, we're not giving that to you. The
too high shell e every keep everything in front Mahomes,
You're gonna eventually be like, I got to chuck it.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
So does he figure it out easily this year with
a I don't want to call Kelsey wash, but he's
coming off the worst year of his career. I'm not
calling him that, but he is coming off a.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Terrible Super Bowl. Do they have enough underneath threats like
is rash Rice gonna get it done?
Speaker 5 (25:55):
And by the way, not an explosive receiver either, So
even though he's back and that's help them this season,
that kind of stuff you're talking about with the Mahomes
sort of being able to do the Mahomes razzle dazzle.
And we don't even know how much for Shi Rice
is going to be around because this arbitration case coming up.
There's talk about him missing six games according to sources
(26:16):
of what the league wants. Obviously the Chiefs want him
more at four games. We'll have to see. I mean,
he's going to be around in a seventeen game season,
but how disruptive.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
That ends up being is going to be a question.
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (26:28):
Again, I think the Chiefs will be fine this year.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
What's fine? Ten eleven, twelve?
Speaker 5 (26:33):
Yeah, I mean, look, I just don't see them getting
to the super Bowl again because you've got the Baltimore
Ravens where it feels like, man, this could be their year.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
You've got the Bills.
Speaker 5 (26:43):
And Josh Allen where it feels like, man, really they
are ready to break through. So I expect, Look, the
Chiefs are again going to get some wins off of
those one score games that were so exceptional at it
last year.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
You know, there's a regression to the mean.
Speaker 5 (26:57):
You don't think that luck is going to go completely
in that direction.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
But it wasn't just luck.
Speaker 5 (27:01):
You are talking about such an experienced play caller and
Andy Reid, a guy like Patrick Mahomes who can do
anything he wants out there when he has the opportunity.
I think they will rack up some extra wins the
same way they did last season.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
But they just.
Speaker 5 (27:15):
Don't feel to me like they are Oh man, their
favorite to win the Super.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Bowl and the offer wants to like to leave him
make the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Yeah, but the offensive line stuff, everybody's like, Oh, this
guy Simmons and he got out of Oh I say, hey, man,
he's a game. What a steal? Can we have him
play a game in the NFL? Like you're just so
excited because tackle has been an issue in the two
Super Bowl losses.
Speaker 5 (27:38):
But they've taken some hits to our offensive line as well.
So you know, well, what does that to see how
it plays out? But man not making the playoffs, Jason,
go Bigger.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Go home, Rachel.
Speaker 5 (27:49):
Let's talk about another guy who's likely not making the playoffs,
cam Ward Strong. Preseason, though he did orchestra orchestrated TD
drive in his first action, he did not throw a
touchdowns in his three appearances, but the Week one matchup
in the road against the Froncos on the horizon. Brian
Callahan is confident in his rookie quarterback.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
Take a listen.
Speaker 11 (28:11):
His commands been outstanding. You know, he doesn't get rattled,
he fights through and we've over We've had some long
down and distances, He's made some plays, He's made some
really nice throws. There's just a confidence in his demeanor
that I have when he's in there that this is
you know, none of it's too big for him. And
then he really operates calmly and finds completions and those
are the things that we've worked on over training camp.
(28:32):
He's going to be able to make the big place,
you know, that's what he does. And he's gonna be
able to move around more when I don't have the
governor on him to don't take any hits, but I
think all of that stuff has been really positive. He's
done well in his limited showing, and I feel confident
with where he's at.
Speaker 5 (28:46):
Look, Brian Callahan is the guy who helped develop Joe
Burrow right. He was the offensive coordinator, and Joe has
crediting him with making a huge difference.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
So they have the right guy there.
Speaker 5 (28:56):
It seems to help develop cam Ward, but cam Ward
will still be playing on that offense, which is horrible.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Jason, what do you think the outlook is for his
rookie season.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
I'm actually bullish. I listen, you remember Jaden Daniels. Obviously,
Washington or nobody had them winning double digit games.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
It was like new coach, new.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Oc, new owner, knew everything, and he just all the
attention was on Caleb Williams.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Jaden Daniels quietly was amazing.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
I don't see why cam Ward can't orchestrate some magic
in Tennessee. I like the offensive line changes. Like you said,
Callahan's excellent. They could use a few more receivers. I
hate to give away fantasy strategy, but Tony Pollard is
going to eat big time this year. I like him
a lot, so I'm I think they could win the division.
I did go to Vegas and one of my bets
was Titans to win that division. It's kind of a
(29:48):
long shot, but every year, you know this, somebody goes
like worse to first. I don't see why it can't
be Tennessee.
Speaker 5 (29:54):
Yeah, I'm not sure I'm going to go that far,
but I appreciate your optimism. I do think cam Ward
appears to be special. It's just not what he does
on the field. It's the way he approaches the game.
He seems wise beyond his years. He knows how to
deal with the media. He's a leader on that team already.
The guys really respect him, which is tough when you're
walking in.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
There as a rookie.
Speaker 5 (30:12):
He had that fight in training camp, yes, remember where
a lot of people were like, oh, see, he's showing
toughness and he's gritty. Can you imagine if Shird or
Sanders got to fight like that.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
In training camp. We did three hours on that, right exactly.
Speaker 5 (30:25):
I'm not sure people would say, oh, that's great, he's gritty,
but yeah, look, in this context, cam Ward is definitely
showing he belongs in the NFL, and that's a big
deal when you haven't even played a game yet.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
Yeah, and will Love is I think that hurts out
for the year. I believe he has so Ward is
going to have like a long leach.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
It's like, hey man, you screw up, that's fine, you
throw three picks, That's okay. Yeah, we're gonna play through it.
Speaker 6 (30:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
I like Tennessee a little this year to surprise it,
but not in Week one. Denver probably murders him at
Mile High.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
I don't think it's gonna be uh. I don't think
it's gonna be the biggest thread there for a week one.
Speaker 9 (30:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (30:55):
Great's got that all right. To the NBA all off season,
we've heard about reports right Lebron being unhappy with the Lakers,
the Lakers shifting their focus from him to Luka Dancic.
Speaker 6 (31:06):
Now.
Speaker 5 (31:06):
Over the summer, there was talk about Lebron potentially forcing
his way out. I will tell you I've never thought
that was going to happen, right, but clearly unhappy and
he is going to stay in La. Of course, there
is a team though, that wants to pry him out
of the Lakers and thinks that maybe at least by
the trade deadline, they can get him. It is the
(31:27):
Golden State Warriors a report that they have repeatedly been
going after him three or four times in the last
eighteen months. And the latest trade package they're offering as
right well involves like taking I mean, the main part
of it is taking Jimmy Butler's salary for Lebron's salary,
which is a salary swap that would work. You know,
it's so hard to trade these superstars because you've got
(31:49):
to make the salaries work and the second Apron and
the eighteenth Apron and all this stuff. But that would
work for the Warriors wouldn't work for the Lakers. The
Lakers are determined to have a clean caps yeah going forward,
because they don't want to find a player over thirty
to pair with Lukadancic. They want a super superstar in
(32:10):
his twenties to compare with Lukadancic. So they don't want
to be tied to Jimmy Butler's contract, which is why
they don't want to be tied to Lebron. That's why
they haven't extended Lebron is because they don't want to
be tied to that kind of money going forward when
they can possibly try to you know, attract either a
superstar who's unhappy somewhere or get a guy who's upfitter's
(32:31):
just free agent.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Who are those highlights of on it? I don't even
recognize that gu's so skinny Gilly? Can you tell who
is seventy seven there?
Speaker 5 (32:37):
Exactly?
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
But in all seriousness, Rachel I got to ask, so,
how do the Lakers get Lebron to Golden State without
taking Butler? Can they re route Butler somewhere and then
bring in someone else.
Speaker 5 (32:54):
I just don't think the Lakers are interested in making
this trade. And by the way, they would like Lebron
to play for them.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Yeah, you don't want to go move off Lebron? This
is all right. I mean, that's what the funny thing
about it is.
Speaker 5 (33:05):
There is a point in the summer where people talking about, well,
Lebron wants to win.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Now, guess what.
Speaker 5 (33:10):
The Lakers might not be the favorite for the NBA title,
but they are set up very well in a competitive West.
You've got Lebron who is still playing at an all
NBA level. You've got Skinny Luca. Skinny could be one
of the top two to three players in the NBA
this season. You've got a supporting cast that again not elites,
but certainly jumps out is filling a lot of their needs.
(33:30):
The Lakers would like to go with this roster going forward.
The only frustration in the Lebron camp is he is
playing at an all NBA level and to play out
the final year of his contract without an extension it
feels insulting. It also feels like if he wants to
play more basketball, he should have the option to stay
at home and play more basketball, as opposed to the
Lakers saying goodbye to him. So that's where some of
(33:51):
the disconnectors come. It's not playing with Luca. He likes
playing with Luca.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
So do are you?
Speaker 2 (33:57):
I can't tell if you sound like you think the
Lakers should offer something beyond this year.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
No, I don't mean. I mean, look, it's a tough spot.
Speaker 5 (34:04):
It's a tough spot to be in, and there's no
road ahead that we can follow for this, right, It's
never happened before.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
No, Lebron is right.
Speaker 5 (34:12):
A guy playing at that level should always be offered
a contract extension, should not be sitting there hanging on
the edge, playing at his last year. But also a
guy who's in his early forties should not be offered
contract extensions that would tie up a team with a
young superstar. So there's no conventional wisdom that applies because
there's never been a situation like this before.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
So we'll just have to see how they go forward.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
I'm trying to think of the Brady exit from New
England with that similar or was that more of him
beefing with Belichick?
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Get me the hell out of here. I'm going to
go to Tampa and win.
Speaker 5 (34:45):
I don't see it as similar, only because I think
Lebron would like to stay with the Lakers and Lebron's
ideal world, in my opinion, have had a heart to
hurt with him.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
I listen, you're plugged in.
Speaker 5 (34:57):
I don't know have you talked to Lebron, But in
my look, his family is here. He is very settled
in Los Angeles.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
He likes playing for the Lakers.
Speaker 5 (35:05):
It's, you know, the showiest franchise in the NBA, and
he is excited to play with Luca. This narrative that
he's somehow jealous of Luca, it does not exist. He
has liked Luca Dantic from the minute Luca got into
the league. Luca has always said he patterned his entire
game after Lebron. Luca is going to take off so
much physical pressure on Lebron this season, but he wants
(35:27):
to be treated with the respect he thinks he deserves
and the salary that he obviously deserves, and they are
just not sure they can commit to him for that.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Do you think this is why he's playing golf all
summer and that's all he's talking about on Instagram?
Speaker 3 (35:40):
I mean I follow him obviously, yes.
Speaker 5 (35:41):
I mean, look, it's nice to be distracted by something, right.
I talked to Rich Paul at Summer League and he
said to me a couple of times, He's like, I've
told Lebron, like, don't pay attention to all of this,
you know, podcast talk and radio talk and rumors and whatever.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Do something else clear your head. So maybe Lebron took
Rich Paul's abuce.
Speaker 5 (35:56):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Yeah, i'd listen. You know, I'm dee 'ron you. I'm
sure you covereds of Michael Jordan.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
Back in the day.
Speaker 6 (36:04):
I did.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Can I quickly ask you before we go.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
To break who your goat is in the NBA?
Speaker 5 (36:08):
Different eras man, I'm of the different eras argument. I'm sorry,
I just I don't think you can compare great. The
game is so much different, so different, These guys are
so different. Well cop outs, you're trying to Okay, do
you want to compare Michael Jordan to Bill Russell?
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Do that one for me.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Yeah, you're right, Russell was like eighteens in lead. I
think there was a maybe, But good stuff. Rachel Rachel
Nichols with the news.
Speaker 10 (36:32):
Well, that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the
Herd Line News.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Oh boy, I got some Detroit Lions fans. I'm buddies
with them. They're really geeked about the season, and I'm
trying to tell them I think the Super Bowl windows closing.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
I'll tell you why. Next.
Speaker 10 (36:46):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon Eastern a EM Pacific.
Speaker 5 (36:52):
All right, since the moment it was announced, you know,
everyone's had this matchup circle. The arch Manning Era kicks
off with the Playoff, a free match for the ages
number one Texas taking on defending national champion number three
Ohio State on Big Noon.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
Saturday.
Speaker 5 (37:08):
Coverage begins, of course, with Big Nude Kickoff live from
Columbus starts at nine am Eastern Saturday, on Fox.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
I cannot wait for that.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
We'll do a lot of college football leading up to
the opening weekend, so many good games.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
I can't wait.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
However, I quickly wanted to tell a quick story. So
in college, me and my buddies, you know, we were
kind of negative.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
We would make fun of each other a lot. That's
what dudes do.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
You know, you roll up to gather the pregame and
go out and be like, oh, that shirt is so tired,
why didn't you get a haircut? We just make fun
of each other. That's what guys do. And then this
new guy joined our group and he was like, why
are you guys so negative? You need to be way
more positive and hype each other up. So we started
to build each other up. Oh you're so money. I
think it had a lot to do with the Swingers
movie Vince Vaughan, and I want to bring that up
(37:56):
because of the Detroit Lions.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
Dan Campbell took to the todium this week.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
And he is irrationally excited, almost like it's fake pump
up raw raw stuff. Take a listen to Dan Campbell
about his excitement about his roster. Listen.
Speaker 12 (38:15):
Year five, This is the best we felt about it
kind of top to bottom. And now that being said,
there's still holes. But I bring this up all the time.
Every roster has holes and you'll never have it exactly
where you totally want it. But from where we've come
year after year, this is we've taken in another level.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
I like that medium look from Dan Campbell. That's the
money money look Dan. Listen, he's talking a big game.
But folks, so bad news. I think the Super Bowl
windows closed. Remember we've seen teams get close. My jets
with Mark Sanchez, shout out Mark and Rex Ryan.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
Two antsy title games in a row.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Everybody thinks we got something here. No playoff appearances since
you go back to the Jim Kelly Bills, four straight
Super Bowls and they were in the wilderness for twenty
years before Josh Allen showed up. Okay, it is hard,
and this Lions team is going to backslide. They win
at fifteen games. I asked the staff to get the
(39:16):
Lion's schedule on the screen. Are you guys ready for this?
The Detroit Lions have the toughest road schedule in the NFL.
On the road, these are the quarterbacks they have to
face the season. Jordan Love, Lamar Jackson, Joe Burrow, Patrick Mahomes,
Baker Mayfield.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
That's before Halloween.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
They got to go too, Jalen Hurts, they got to
go to Matt Stafford.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
Guys, that is absolutely brutal. And oh, by the.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Way, down two interior offensive lineman one retired and they
let Ziegler go, one of my boys who puts together
a great NFL gambling right up said, those two offensive
linemen that were lost over the last three seasons were
top five at their position.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
It's a huge step back.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
They're starting a third round rookie, likely at center and
then the obviously the position coaches are huge Ben Johnson
and Aaron Glenn.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
Those are massive losses.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
So the new OC Okay, he has not been an
offensive quarter nader since twenty seventeen.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
He was in OC and then didn't go well, hasn't
been in OC again until this year.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Okay, their new defensive coordinator was playing in the league.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
In twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
The highest he got as a coach coach before getting
the defensive coordinator gig was a linebacker coach.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Guys, this is gonna be a big regression.
Speaker 6 (40:35):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
They had fourteen indoor games last year down to ten. Now,
I'm not saying the Lion's totally crumble. There's not a
ton of cold weather games, although they go to Chicago
in the final week of the season, but they do
have to go to Philly and Washington. Could be cold
weather games we'll see likely no October November.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
I just I don't see it.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
A list of the quarterbacks they have to face must
terrify you when you look at the defense. Guys, the
depth chart for that defense is what's going on.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
You remember the movie.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Major League where they would be like every season it
is like, who the bleep are these guys? Look at
that Lion's defense and you're like, she's We're cooked.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
We got to stop these quarterbacks with these guys. Listen,
I had them missing the playoffs and I think the.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Super Bowl windows closed now. Jared gob obviously lives in
my area. I'm rooting for you, Jared, but it's an
uphill climb. Final hour coming up next year.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
On a Monday on the Herd,
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Thanks
for listening to The Herd podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Welcome back our number two here on the Herd. A
beautiful Monday morning in Los Angeles. It's a bit of
a heat wave out here at Touch eighty over the
weekend ride in the South Bay brutal.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
What I am you gonna do? Zsidbacka taran for Colin Coward.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Join by Rachel Nichols telling us Brett farm log stories.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
She's got a lot of good stuff.
Speaker 5 (00:46):
Cover the NFL for more than a decade. There's a
lot of good stories buried in there, for sure.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Goodness, we got Mike Jones of the Athletic coming up,
the Samon Rogers stuff. I was thinking about it on
the elevator ride. I'm not gonna fire it now. We
touched on earlier. We'll we'll get to Aaron Rodgers here shortly,
but I want to start briefly with a team and
a player near and dear to Colin Cowhard, and that's
(01:12):
Caleb Williams of the Bears. Listen, the preseason has basically
all the oxygen has been sucked out by like four guys,
Michael Parsons, Shador Sanders, Caleb Williams definitely leading the charge,
Aaron Rodgers' distant third or fourth.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
But this Caleb Williams stuff is just I don't know
what to make of it. Again.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Two years ago, the talk was, oh, Caleb boy, he
could be the face of the NFL in four years.
We get so freaking excited about these guys. For one
season of college football, some dynamic throws.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
At Caleb Williams.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
He was awesome at times for USC, then he fell
into like the backyard quarterback stuff. And now he gets
a good coach and we're expecting greatness. And the last
month has been anything but great from Caleb Williams and
cryptic stuff from Ben Johnson.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
All Right, I'm not going to.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Be out here hammering Caleb Williams again. Last week I
mentioned Johnny Manzel and all the sick of fans in
Chicago like came after me. Folks, listen to Ben Johnson
after their preseason game against the Chiefs.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
You listen to this Offensively, the first two possessions was
really sloppy football that you know has plugged us in
and out of camp so far. It is disappointing to
me offensively for sure, because that's I thought that we'd
kind of worked our way out of that. The first
quarter was really any indication it's not good enough. So
(02:41):
we got to get better in a hurry. But yeah,
we got to make sure that we start faster on
offense and on defense.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Oh boy, Now listen, this is his first rodeo as
a head coach. Oh see in Detroit behind walk around
guy Dan Campbell, who we will get you interesting story
on Campbell later in the show. But is Ben Johnson
coming in a little bit hot?
Speaker 6 (03:05):
Here?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
A lot of veiled comments about Caleb And I don't
want to I don't know Caleb. I've never spoken to him,
but I don't want to presume his psyche. But there
were some things we saw in college. Hey maybe it
was a college kid where he didn't exactly react great
when things were not going his way. And I'm gonna
(03:27):
play a clip for you here about Ben Johnson talking
about someone. But before I play it, we're running highlights
from their Chiefs game. The very first play was a
fumble with Caleb Williams under center. Now was on the handoff,
but still that's not Chris, that's sloppy. Bro, your a
second year quarterback, your face of the franchise. Bears fans
(03:47):
are like always you're gonna throw for four thousand yards?
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Who cares?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Can we get the snap and the cadence down? Okay,
so here's a quote. Listen to Ben Johnson. I'm not
gonna tell you the answer until the end, but think
about who he's talking about here.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
I've really been blown away by his approach from the
spring to the start of camp to where we are now.
He does a tremendous job knowing what to do, how
to do it, and getting it done.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Okays, he's not talking about Caleb Williams.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
He's gassing up his backup quarterback.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
As Rachel said first hour, the backup quarterback is always
the most popular guy in town. That's Tyson Beaijin, whose
father was like a proclaimed arm wrestler.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
And oh, by the way, Beijen just got a new deal. Huh,
what are you giving a backup quarterback. Who I mean, I'm.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Not of the belief that he's like one of the
elite quarterbackups in the league. But that had to raise
some eyebrows in the Caleb Williams camp. No paying this backup.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
It's my job.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Yeah, we get that, but we want some insurance. That's
not a good sign. Now again, this is all preseason.
Maybe the live bullets start firing and Caleb is unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
But uh, I've got my doubts, folks, I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
All right, Let's bring in Mike Jones from the Athletic
Colors the NFL covering the NFL for the last fifteen years,
worked at the Washington Post. Someone here knows someone here
read that newspaper growing up, and someone here worked for
that newspaper.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Mike, how are you, man?
Speaker 6 (05:20):
I'll go, well, how are you guys doing this morning?
Speaker 3 (05:21):
You know, I can't complain. It's Monday.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Football's almost here, We're ten days away from the opener.
I do have to ask, though, you know, you do
a lot of podcasts, You're going on a lot of
TV radio shows. Are you surprised by the amount of
questions about Shador Sanders? A fifth round pick who is
fourth on the depth dar like he's the topic Tojre
in the NFL.
Speaker 7 (05:43):
Yeah, I mean I have written a lot about him,
you know, coming out of the draft, and there's been
just a huge buzz about the Sanders him and also
his brother as well. And you know, yeah, I was
talking to somebody just this morning and about all the
just the screw rutiny that is surrounding him and the
Browns and the handling of him, and I'm like, you know,
(06:05):
when you really think about it, this is a fifth
round pick. Like we don't really talk about fifth round
pick quarterbacks and the other opportunities are limited, but this
isn't a normal fifth round pick. This is the guy
that we thought would go a lot higher and whose
skill set we are led to believe is you know, much.
Speaker 6 (06:20):
Better than a regular fifth round pick.
Speaker 7 (06:22):
So again, the brand, the name, everything has just made
this a bigger deal.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
He is.
Speaker 7 (06:29):
I'm putting together my list of twenty five most intriguing
players entering the twenty twenty five season, and I'm not
gonna you.
Speaker 6 (06:36):
Know, she's probably on that list.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Probably the top five. That was interesting.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
You use a word, Mike, You said brand a rookie
quarterback who was taking on the fifth round has a brand.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
I'm trying to think.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Josh Allen when he came into the league from Wyoming,
what was his brand?
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Did Patrick Mahomes have one? Out of Texas Tech? Like
the fact that.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
He has a brand like great for him, But I
don't that that's actually what you want your quarterback having
coming out of college, is it.
Speaker 7 (07:04):
Well? I mean this is a new even, you know,
a new age even from when Josh Allen and when
Patrick Mahoons were coming out.
Speaker 6 (07:13):
Yeah, they didn't have brands.
Speaker 7 (07:15):
You know, there wasn't the whole There was social media,
but not the level that it is now where guys
have YouTube channels and nil deals and all kinds of
things like that. You know, this guy's got a Hall
of Fame football coach father. You know, it's so football
player turned football coach as a father.
Speaker 6 (07:33):
So yeah, there's a whole lot more with here.
Speaker 7 (07:35):
But I think that the thing that is most important
is does he have a work ethic?
Speaker 6 (07:39):
You know, yeah, he's got a brand, does have work ethics?
Speaker 7 (07:41):
Does he have you know, teachability and all those things,
the athleticism, everything it takes to be an NFL player.
As long as you have that, then teams don't care
if you have a brand. But you know, you're talking
about Kayleb Williams.
Speaker 6 (07:53):
Uh. He certainly, you.
Speaker 7 (07:54):
Know, had kind of a brand coming out, and you
know it's not always about that stuff. That's what you
can do on this higher level than what you were
in college.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
You're you're right, it is kind of a new era.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
I think Johnny Manzel probably had a brand, is that
fair to say?
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Coming out of A and M. I don't know if
it was a good brand, right, but it was a brand.
Speaker 8 (08:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (08:15):
There was a kind of a cult following type of
thing about him. You know, I don't think it's quite
the whole, you know, is the same level as Shadors,
But yeah, kind of.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Like that Trevor Lawrence kind of a he's in is
he a bust or not?
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Cata?
Speaker 2 (08:32):
But I don't think he has a brand. He just
hasn't been a good quarterback. I mean, he's not in
jeopardy of getting bench. But let's spin it forward, a
do you think the Browns keep Shador? Do you think
they Is it possible I floated the idea of trading
him to the Raiders just getting him off the roster,
getting whatever you can, just take a seventh round pick,
will take the loss. I don't know what's your guests
(08:54):
for Shador week one?
Speaker 6 (08:56):
No, I mean I think that he's on the team.
Speaker 7 (08:57):
I'm not saying that he's going to be active in
week one, but I think that he's going to be
on this team. There are still people in that building
who really believe in his potential. And look, if he's
not ready, it's okay. They have a really tough stretch
of their season here to open the schedule.
Speaker 6 (09:15):
You would be much more.
Speaker 7 (09:16):
Comfortable with Joe Flacco going up against some of those
defenses like you know, you know in Detroit and Green
Bay and Baltimore.
Speaker 6 (09:25):
Why throw a rookie to the Wolves like that?
Speaker 7 (09:28):
But there's also questions about the handling of Shador and
the developmental plan and if the Browns are all on
the same page on how to get him ready, you know,
and so there are questions about that. But I think that, yeah,
he's going to be on this team. We'll see what
the progress is. I wouldn't be surprised, you know, late
this year we wind up seeing him on the field.
Speaker 6 (09:48):
It wouldn't surprise me at all interesting.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Let's go to Aaron Rodgers briefly, hopefully only briefly. He
kind of was talking on a podcast with DK Metcalf
and DK Metcalf Flow today, maybe maybe you're staying beyond
this year, you know, maybe we'll run it back, and
Aaron Rodgers said, maybe, Mike, what are we to take
of Aaron Rodgers at this point? I mean we haven't
(10:14):
even got to the him versus Arthur Smith stuff that's
going to bubble up inevitably, But like, where are you
on Rogers and Pittsburgh are they?
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Is he going to make your most intriguing list?
Speaker 6 (10:23):
Yeah? Look he everything is great right now.
Speaker 7 (10:27):
I was up there for training camp in Latrow a
couple of weeks ago, and you know he's talking about
loving like remembering how to play video games.
Speaker 9 (10:34):
And playing cards with the guys and connecting and being
in this, you know, back with the Stables story franchise,
kind of liking Green Bay with the head coach he
really respects and all that stuff.
Speaker 6 (10:46):
But there are no bullets are flying yet, and so
we'll see.
Speaker 7 (10:50):
What happens when that offensive line struggles to protect him
and the run game is just kind of man and
you know, and this defense provide the backing it needs.
It seems like they've added piece like Jalen Ramsey and Sleigh,
and they retained TJ.
Speaker 6 (11:04):
Watt and extended him. But still there are a lot of.
Speaker 7 (11:06):
Questions here, and so I wrote about that, like, hey,
the field good vibes are good, but that's going to
take way more than that, and it's more to do
what's around Aaron Rodgers. That's going to say how successful
this is. And just like you said, we saw it
in New York. Everything was great and then when things
started getting hairy, there was fingerpointing. And Rogers is not
(11:27):
afraid to pull back the curtain and call out dysfunction,
and so we could see that happen in Pittsburgh. Yes,
we think of them as really stable under Mike Tomlin.
You nose losing seasons. But if this thing is not
playing out really well, we could see a frustrated Rogers
definitely air some dirty laundry.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Oh can't wait for that one. Let's go to Washington.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Terry mcclaurin just got his new deal today, three years,
ninety six mil. Happy for Washington. Rachel has some concerns
about the defense. I am a little skeptical.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
I grew up in the DC area.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
A lot of my buddies al doing that again. Run
to the NFC Championship would be difficult. You wrote a
piece on Daniels last month that I thought was a
good one.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
I'm curious your thoughts on Washington.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Can they even come close to duplicating last year's heroics.
Speaker 6 (12:14):
That's going to be tough.
Speaker 7 (12:15):
You know, they came out of nowhere. Now they're on
everybody's radar. They can't sneak up on anybody. I think
the moves that they've made in the offseason, Adam Peters
and Dan Quinn as they put this thing together, their
roster is definitely better as a whole. But that doesn't
mean that they're going to have a better season. To
have a better season, they basically have to get back
(12:35):
to the NFC Championship and get to the super Bowl.
That's the only way you top that. Now you have expectations,
you know, so I still think they can win ten games,
but that doesn't mean that they're going to wind up
making a deeper playoff run. I still think that Philadelphia
winds up winning that division. They just are so strong
top to bottom. But it's going to be interesting for
Washington how they continue to evolve, what do they do
(12:57):
to stay a step ahead of the defense Asbury and
Jade Daniels. I think they have the potential to have
a really good season again, but again that's a tougher season,
tougher schedule of games, tougher competition, so it'll be hard
to surpass last year.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Yeah, specifically that defense, like Jayden Daniels just kept bailing
them out last year. I think they had five or
six wins in the final minute or what have you.
I'm looking at that front seven and it's like that
is toothless, like they got old dudes and kind of
not to be disrespectful, just non factors. I mean, Marshawn
Lttimore hasn't been healthy in half a decade. So I
(13:32):
just don't know how they stop anybody. And they're in
a division where the Eagles offense is a juggernaut. Brian
Dable is a sharp guy, Milik neighbors are very good,
and let's be real, Dallas has Dak Pickens and and
Cde Lamb. Like that alone is going to give Washington problems.
So I don't is there a world where they slip
back to third in the division.
Speaker 7 (13:53):
I do think that day in Dallas will be going
back and forth head to head for that number two
spot right there.
Speaker 6 (14:00):
It's possible.
Speaker 7 (14:01):
I agree with you on your concerns about the defense
they brought in von Miller, but I don't know that
he's really.
Speaker 6 (14:06):
The answer as far as a pass rusher.
Speaker 7 (14:09):
You know, it's going to take a lot of creativity
from Dan Quinn once again. Bobby Wagner is a guy
who sets a good tone, but you know he's not
a spring chicken and that secondary.
Speaker 6 (14:20):
You know, there are a lot of questions, and I
don't know.
Speaker 7 (14:22):
They've drafted some young guys and we'll see how they developed,
but I don't know that they were really able to
take this.
Speaker 6 (14:28):
Defense to another level. But I guess they're.
Speaker 7 (14:30):
Hoping with Terry mccluurin, Deebo, Samuel Jayden Daniels, that maybe
their offense can put up more points and so they
won't have to rely on those closet finishes.
Speaker 6 (14:39):
But that's a lot of ifs.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Yeah, let me ask you, Mike, I missed this news
last week.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
All I was out the Colts decided Daniel Jones is
our guy, you know, kind of surprising. But Richardson did
not have an inspiring preseason. He's always hurt. Still not accurate.
So let's give Daniel Jones props forgetting out of Minnesota, right,
he knew he wasn't going to play with McCarthy. There
gets you spot where he can play. But what does
this do for Richardson? Like this is kind of I mean,
(15:05):
they drafted him to be the guy, and now it's
like you can't even beat out Daniel Jones, who, let's
be real, is not a good quarterback.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Is Richardson's time up in Indy or what are you hearing?
Speaker 6 (15:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (15:15):
No, I think that's very concerning because look, obviously he
was a guy that you knew, yes physically a specimen,
had some.
Speaker 6 (15:24):
Great college tape. Doesn't have a whole lot of college tape.
Speaker 7 (15:27):
I don't think he's actually had, you know, I think
it was a stat that I heard last week that
it was he doesn't even have two thousand plays yet
under his belt between college and the NFL.
Speaker 6 (15:38):
So it takes a while to develop.
Speaker 7 (15:40):
And so you're hoping that you do the things, all
the things, carry yourself like a pro and continue to develop.
Speaker 6 (15:46):
But from the sounds of things. He was not doing
all of those things.
Speaker 7 (15:49):
That's the reason why last year he got pinched because
they were hoping to get through to him and kind
of get his attention, and they went to Joe Flacco
for a little bit here and.
Speaker 6 (15:56):
Again, the durability is an issue.
Speaker 7 (15:57):
You know, the coaches say the best ability is ability,
and if you're not able to stay on the field
not carrying yourself like a pro, then you're going to
go to a guy.
Speaker 6 (16:05):
And so it's going to be hard to go back.
Speaker 7 (16:08):
To him unless he totally, you know, kind of you know,
gets in line and is doing all the work and
growing through practice reps.
Speaker 6 (16:16):
But that's not the same as game speed. It's going
to be tough.
Speaker 7 (16:19):
Yes, they're going to Daniel Jones, They're going to have
to run the ball a whole lot. I think that's
the blueprint that the Giant showed a couple of years
ago when they made it to the playoffs, squeaked in there.
They relied on Saquon Barkley a whole lot. They didn't
put a whole lot on to Daniel Jones's shoulders. I
think Indy will run, lean on the run game, lean
on their defense and hope that Danielones can just take
care of the football because you know, you're not going
(16:40):
to get a whole lot of touchdown passes out of him,
because that was definitely not something that he was known
for in New York.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Yeah, I got to.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Ask, Mike, did you just listen? Do you answer that?
I'm just trying to think back. We've seen a lot
of these quarterbacks who go top five, top ten, it
seems like more than normal in the last I don't know, five, six,
seven years, and they seem to flop in their first spot,
but they can thrive afterward. Baker Mayfield comes to mind,
(17:07):
Sam Darnold comes to mind, Anthony Richardson, there's others.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
I'm just wondering, do you think what do you think
this is about?
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Is it guys are getting overdrafted? Is it we still
don't know how to identify quarterbacks? What's the issue?
Speaker 6 (17:22):
Well?
Speaker 7 (17:22):
I think that there's this pressure, Okay, we got this
guy we need. You know, lots of times they're drafted
to bad franchises, right, the guys like Patrick Mahomes, who
the Chiefs jumped up to trade and draft him, and
then he sat behind Alex Smith for a year and
was able to develop a lot of these are bad franchises,
except for you know, San Francisco.
Speaker 6 (17:41):
They had Trey Lance, but it wasn't a real.
Speaker 7 (17:46):
Developmental plan for a lot of these guys, and they're
playing sooner than what they should.
Speaker 6 (17:50):
They should Okay, if you're going to.
Speaker 7 (17:51):
Spend that high pick on a guy, okay, but have
a veter in place, let him start. Let this guy learn,
Especially some of these guys like Trey Lance, Anthony Richardson,
who don't have a whole lot of college experience. The
guys who are three and four year starters, it doesn't
happen a whole lot anymore. But those guys are better
off coming into the NFL. Like Jade Daniels had a
lot of experience in college and that's why he was
(18:12):
able to make a better transition. But so many of
these young guys, they're playing sooner than they need to,
and then the patience is not there because coaches don't
have a whole lot of time to save their jobs
before owners get impatient and you know, heads start to roll,
and so it's just a whole mess in the way
that they're drafting, developing or not developing and playing guys
(18:34):
sooner than they should.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Yeah, I'm looking at the list. It's not just a
COVID thing either. There were you know, Bryce Young, by
the way, this could be his last shot, but there's
been other guys, and I'm just you know, you see
names like Josh Rosen, Mitch Trubisky. There's no given that
even Caleb Williams is going to work out in Chicago.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
I don't want to be too negative.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
I know people, Jason, come on, He's got to be fine,
is he?
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Mike?
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I can't say for sure, can you No, we can't
say for sure.
Speaker 7 (19:02):
But the thing is you have to remember he was
in such an awful situation last year. Then you have
like three offensive coordinators throughout the course of the year.
Speaker 6 (19:10):
And so if you're learning and then everything.
Speaker 7 (19:13):
Keeps getting changed, and now you have a new coach,
you going to learn a new language, a new way
of doing things.
Speaker 6 (19:19):
I think that this is going to be a year
of growing pains for him.
Speaker 7 (19:22):
But if he can get on the same page and
understand and take all the tutoring that the math the
mad scientists that Ben Johnson is, then I think it's
possible that we could see him still be Okay, it's
way too early to pull the plug or to panic,
but you have to understand that again, he's having to
relearn a lot of things. Last year we saw him
(19:44):
get sacked more than any other quarterback in the league.
They did upgrade their offensive line, but lots of times
he was trying to make something out of nothing. Think
he could do what he did in USC where he's
running around, you know, across the field and back the
other way. You know, you got defensive linemen that are
faster than that and are going to plant you into
the ground now, So you got to learn to get
rid of the ball quickly and make good decisions. And
(20:04):
that's what he's going to have to understand if he
wants to make it in the NFL.
Speaker 6 (20:08):
And I think it's possible. It's just gonna take some time.
All right.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
We could wrap up, you know, for fantasy purposes.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Some of us may have three or four drafts this week.
Matthew Stafford, what are you hearing on the Rams quarterback?
Because there's a lot of people out here in the
dark thinking like, oh, it's gonna be bad.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Rams did not going to the Super Bowl. But there's
also a whiff of hey man, he's old, he doesn't
want to play in the preseason. He's gonna be fine.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Which side do you fall on here?
Speaker 7 (20:34):
I think that you can be cautiously optimistic that, Okay,
he knows the system inside and out. You know, they're
being extra cautious with him because they know that they
can't afford for him to, you know, get hurt in
the preseason and then be banged up throughout the whole year.
But again, if you were in that situation and it's
(20:56):
that nerve wracking, it just takes one hit in week
one to throw things off the rails.
Speaker 6 (21:01):
And so we'll see what happens.
Speaker 7 (21:03):
I thought when we're entering the off season the way
that they finished last year, I thought, Okay, the Rams
are my pick to win that division.
Speaker 6 (21:10):
They might make some noise. I'm not so confident now.
Speaker 7 (21:13):
I'm a little bit skittish, just because of what we've seen.
We have heard as of late that he is returned
to practice, he's not having any discomfort and things, so
that's positive. But again, he hasn't gotten hit yet, and
so a lot is riding on the health of that back.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
By the way they open up against the Houston Texans,
who maybe have a top four defense in the league,
certainly front four, and they also have Philadelphia in week three,
so you're probably onto something. Mike Stafford's going to get
tested early, all right, Mike Jones, the athletic great stuff man.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Thanks a lot for your time, Mike, all right.
Speaker 6 (21:44):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 10 (21:45):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
and newone Easter non a Empacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 8 (21:54):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together we're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You could catch
us weekdays from five to seven pm Eastern two to
four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the
iHeartRadio App. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich.
We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's going on.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
In the world.
Speaker 8 (22:12):
We have a lot of fun talking about the stories
behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture,
stories that well, other shows don't seem to have the
time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends
for the last twenty years and still work together, I
mean that says something, right, So check us out. We
like to get you involved too, take your phone calls,
chop it up. As they say, I'd say, the most
interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive
(22:35):
show on planetar. Be sure to check out Covino and
Rich live on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app
from five to seven pm Eastern two to four Pacific.
And if you miss any of the live show, just
search Covino and Rich wherever you get your podcasts, and
of course on social media. That's Covino and Rich.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Back here on the Herd. Great stuff from Mike Jones
at the Athletic. A lot of fun topics happening in
the l but also we've got an NBA one.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Let's go to Rachel Nichols with the news.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
No, no, this is the Herd Line news, Jason.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Let's start with the Chiefs. They look sharp this weekend.
Speaker 5 (23:14):
Closed out their preseason with nice stuff from Patrick Mahomes.
He finished with one hundred and forty three yards and
touchdown across three drives.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Against the Bears.
Speaker 5 (23:22):
We've got Mahomes talking about getting back to the Super Bowl,
Andy Reid talking about getting back to the Super Bowl.
Travis Kelcey talking about getting back to the Super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
We've got Las Vegas.
Speaker 5 (23:32):
Jason saying that the Chiefs are the fourth best, fourth
best odds to win the Super Bowl. And yet you,
Jason McIntyre, do you still not believe they're even going
to make the playoffs?
Speaker 3 (23:48):
Yeah, that's my prediction. I've had a couple wrong predictions
of my career. Have you had any ever heard? I mean,
you know, yeah, it happens.
Speaker 10 (23:56):
I just.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
I've gone over it all summer.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yes, I understand Mahomes look good in the preseason finale.
Schedule is not easy. He's faced Lamar Herbert Hurts all early.
I don't know where are you on Kelsey. I know
he's talking about the Super Bowl, but actions over words.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
He's doing photo shoots and.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
He's prancing around the country with his cool girlfriend Taylor.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
So I got no problem with that. But I'm just saying,
like words and actions, I don't know.
Speaker 5 (24:26):
He certainly looks better than he did coming into the
last couple of seasons. So there's the action I'm looking
for is how much does he appear to have been
working out? He was doing a lot of stuff down
in Florida. It seems as if he is refocused going
into this season, and he's earned us taking his word
for it, So I'm okay with that. The problem to
(24:46):
me with the Chiefs, I think they're making the playoffs.
I don't have any question about that, but I would
not say that they are going back to the super Bowl.
They just haven't figured out how to recapture that magic
they have with Patrick Mahomes. The exploded nixt sprade for
this offense has gone down and down and down nine
percent last season. That puts them twenty ninth in the league.
(25:08):
And you are talking about a quarterback that has one
of the most potentials for explosive plays in the entire league.
So you look at who they got in there. I
just I don't think they had a great offseason, are
you of.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
The beliefs Defenses have taken it away from Mahomes and
that was kind of his superpower.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Let me just chuck it up.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
To Tyreek Hill or whoever's going to run under it,
and defense like, we're not giving that to you. The
too high shell e every keep everything in front Mahomes,
You're gonna eventually be like, I got to chuck it.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
So does he figure it out easily this year with
a I don't want to call Kelsey wash, but he's
coming off the worst year of his career. I'm not
calling him that, but he is coming off a.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Terrible Super Bowl. Do they have enough underneath threats like
is rash Rice gonna get it done?
Speaker 5 (25:55):
And by the way, not an explosive receiver either, So
even though he's back and that's help them this season,
that kind of stuff you're talking about with the Mahomes
sort of being able to do the Mahomes razzle dazzle.
And we don't even know how much for Shi Rice
is going to be around because this arbitration case coming up.
There's talk about him missing six games according to sources
(26:16):
of what the league wants. Obviously the Chiefs want him
more at four games. We'll have to see. I mean,
he's going to be around in a seventeen game season,
but how disruptive.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
That ends up being is going to be a question.
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (26:28):
Again, I think the Chiefs will be fine this year.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
What's fine? Ten eleven, twelve?
Speaker 5 (26:33):
Yeah, I mean, look, I just don't see them getting
to the super Bowl again because you've got the Baltimore
Ravens where it feels like, man, this could be their year.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
You've got the Bills.
Speaker 5 (26:43):
And Josh Allen where it feels like, man, really they
are ready to break through. So I expect, Look, the
Chiefs are again going to get some wins off of
those one score games that were so exceptional at it
last year.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
You know, there's a regression to the mean.
Speaker 5 (26:57):
You don't think that luck is going to go completely
in that direction.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
But it wasn't just luck.
Speaker 5 (27:01):
You are talking about such an experienced play caller and
Andy Reid, a guy like Patrick Mahomes who can do
anything he wants out there when he has the opportunity.
I think they will rack up some extra wins the
same way they did last season.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
But they just.
Speaker 5 (27:15):
Don't feel to me like they are Oh man, their
favorite to win the Super.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Bowl and the offer wants to like to leave him
make the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Yeah, but the offensive line stuff, everybody's like, Oh, this
guy Simmons and he got out of Oh I say, hey, man,
he's a game. What a steal? Can we have him
play a game in the NFL? Like you're just so
excited because tackle has been an issue in the two
Super Bowl losses.
Speaker 5 (27:38):
But they've taken some hits to our offensive line as well.
So you know, well, what does that to see how
it plays out? But man not making the playoffs, Jason,
go Bigger.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Go home, Rachel.
Speaker 5 (27:49):
Let's talk about another guy who's likely not making the playoffs,
cam Ward Strong. Preseason, though he did orchestra orchestrated TD
drive in his first action, he did not throw a
touchdowns in his three appearances, but the Week one matchup
in the road against the Froncos on the horizon. Brian
Callahan is confident in his rookie quarterback.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
Take a listen.
Speaker 11 (28:11):
His commands been outstanding. You know, he doesn't get rattled,
he fights through and we've over We've had some long
down and distances, He's made some plays, He's made some
really nice throws. There's just a confidence in his demeanor
that I have when he's in there that this is
you know, none of it's too big for him. And
then he really operates calmly and finds completions and those
are the things that we've worked on over training camp.
(28:32):
He's going to be able to make the big place,
you know, that's what he does. And he's gonna be
able to move around more when I don't have the
governor on him to don't take any hits, but I
think all of that stuff has been really positive. He's
done well in his limited showing, and I feel confident
with where he's at.
Speaker 5 (28:46):
Look, Brian Callahan is the guy who helped develop Joe
Burrow right. He was the offensive coordinator, and Joe has
crediting him with making a huge difference.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
So they have the right guy there.
Speaker 5 (28:56):
It seems to help develop cam Ward, but cam Ward
will still be playing on that offense, which is horrible.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Jason, what do you think the outlook is for his
rookie season.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
I'm actually bullish. I listen, you remember Jaden Daniels. Obviously,
Washington or nobody had them winning double digit games.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
It was like new coach, new.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Oc, new owner, knew everything, and he just all the
attention was on Caleb Williams.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Jaden Daniels quietly was amazing.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
I don't see why cam Ward can't orchestrate some magic
in Tennessee. I like the offensive line changes. Like you said,
Callahan's excellent. They could use a few more receivers. I
hate to give away fantasy strategy, but Tony Pollard is
going to eat big time this year. I like him
a lot, so I'm I think they could win the division.
I did go to Vegas and one of my bets
was Titans to win that division. It's kind of a
(29:48):
long shot, but every year, you know this, somebody goes
like worse to first. I don't see why it can't
be Tennessee.
Speaker 5 (29:54):
Yeah, I'm not sure I'm going to go that far,
but I appreciate your optimism. I do think cam Ward
appears to be special. It's just not what he does
on the field. It's the way he approaches the game.
He seems wise beyond his years. He knows how to
deal with the media. He's a leader on that team already.
The guys really respect him, which is tough when you're
walking in.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
There as a rookie.
Speaker 5 (30:12):
He had that fight in training camp, yes, remember where
a lot of people were like, oh, see, he's showing
toughness and he's gritty. Can you imagine if Shird or
Sanders got to fight like that.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
In training camp. We did three hours on that, right exactly.
Speaker 5 (30:25):
I'm not sure people would say, oh, that's great, he's gritty,
but yeah, look, in this context, cam Ward is definitely
showing he belongs in the NFL, and that's a big
deal when you haven't even played a game yet.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
Yeah, and will Love is I think that hurts out
for the year. I believe he has so Ward is
going to have like a long leach.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
It's like, hey man, you screw up, that's fine, you
throw three picks, That's okay. Yeah, we're gonna play through it.
Speaker 6 (30:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
I like Tennessee a little this year to surprise it,
but not in Week one. Denver probably murders him at
Mile High.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
I don't think it's gonna be uh. I don't think
it's gonna be the biggest thread there for a week one.
Speaker 9 (30:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (30:55):
Great's got that all right. To the NBA all off season,
we've heard about reports right Lebron being unhappy with the Lakers,
the Lakers shifting their focus from him to Luka Dancic.
Speaker 6 (31:06):
Now.
Speaker 5 (31:06):
Over the summer, there was talk about Lebron potentially forcing
his way out. I will tell you I've never thought
that was going to happen, right, but clearly unhappy and
he is going to stay in La. Of course, there
is a team though, that wants to pry him out
of the Lakers and thinks that maybe at least by
the trade deadline, they can get him. It is the
(31:27):
Golden State Warriors a report that they have repeatedly been
going after him three or four times in the last
eighteen months. And the latest trade package they're offering as
right well involves like taking I mean, the main part
of it is taking Jimmy Butler's salary for Lebron's salary,
which is a salary swap that would work. You know,
it's so hard to trade these superstars because you've got
(31:49):
to make the salaries work and the second Apron and
the eighteenth Apron and all this stuff. But that would
work for the Warriors wouldn't work for the Lakers. The
Lakers are determined to have a clean caps yeah going forward,
because they don't want to find a player over thirty
to pair with Lukadancic. They want a super superstar in
(32:10):
his twenties to compare with Lukadancic. So they don't want
to be tied to Jimmy Butler's contract, which is why
they don't want to be tied to Lebron. That's why
they haven't extended Lebron is because they don't want to
be tied to that kind of money going forward when
they can possibly try to you know, attract either a
superstar who's unhappy somewhere or get a guy who's upfitter's
(32:31):
just free agent.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Who are those highlights of on it? I don't even
recognize that gu's so skinny Gilly? Can you tell who
is seventy seven there?
Speaker 5 (32:37):
Exactly?
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
But in all seriousness, Rachel I got to ask, so,
how do the Lakers get Lebron to Golden State without
taking Butler? Can they re route Butler somewhere and then
bring in someone else.
Speaker 5 (32:54):
I just don't think the Lakers are interested in making
this trade. And by the way, they would like Lebron
to play for them.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Yeah, you don't want to go move off Lebron? This
is all right. I mean, that's what the funny thing
about it is.
Speaker 5 (33:05):
There is a point in the summer where people talking about, well,
Lebron wants to win.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Now, guess what.
Speaker 5 (33:10):
The Lakers might not be the favorite for the NBA title,
but they are set up very well in a competitive West.
You've got Lebron who is still playing at an all
NBA level. You've got Skinny Luca. Skinny could be one
of the top two to three players in the NBA
this season. You've got a supporting cast that again not elites,
but certainly jumps out is filling a lot of their needs.
(33:30):
The Lakers would like to go with this roster going forward.
The only frustration in the Lebron camp is he is
playing at an all NBA level and to play out
the final year of his contract without an extension it
feels insulting. It also feels like if he wants to
play more basketball, he should have the option to stay
at home and play more basketball, as opposed to the
Lakers saying goodbye to him. So that's where some of
(33:51):
the disconnectors come. It's not playing with Luca. He likes
playing with Luca.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
So do are you?
Speaker 2 (33:57):
I can't tell if you sound like you think the
Lakers should offer something beyond this year.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
No, I don't mean. I mean, look, it's a tough spot.
Speaker 5 (34:04):
It's a tough spot to be in, and there's no
road ahead that we can follow for this, right, It's
never happened before.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
No, Lebron is right.
Speaker 5 (34:12):
A guy playing at that level should always be offered
a contract extension, should not be sitting there hanging on
the edge, playing at his last year. But also a
guy who's in his early forties should not be offered
contract extensions that would tie up a team with a
young superstar. So there's no conventional wisdom that applies because
there's never been a situation like this before.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
So we'll just have to see how they go forward.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
I'm trying to think of the Brady exit from New
England with that similar or was that more of him
beefing with Belichick?
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Get me the hell out of here. I'm going to
go to Tampa and win.
Speaker 5 (34:45):
I don't see it as similar, only because I think
Lebron would like to stay with the Lakers and Lebron's
ideal world, in my opinion, have had a heart to
hurt with him.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
I listen, you're plugged in.
Speaker 5 (34:57):
I don't know have you talked to Lebron, But in
my look, his family is here. He is very settled
in Los Angeles.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
He likes playing for the Lakers.
Speaker 5 (35:05):
It's, you know, the showiest franchise in the NBA, and
he is excited to play with Luca. This narrative that
he's somehow jealous of Luca, it does not exist. He
has liked Luca Dantic from the minute Luca got into
the league. Luca has always said he patterned his entire
game after Lebron. Luca is going to take off so
much physical pressure on Lebron this season, but he wants
(35:27):
to be treated with the respect he thinks he deserves
and the salary that he obviously deserves, and they are
just not sure they can commit to him for that.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Do you think this is why he's playing golf all
summer and that's all he's talking about on Instagram?
Speaker 3 (35:40):
I mean I follow him obviously, yes.
Speaker 5 (35:41):
I mean, look, it's nice to be distracted by something, right.
I talked to Rich Paul at Summer League and he
said to me a couple of times, He's like, I've
told Lebron, like, don't pay attention to all of this,
you know, podcast talk and radio talk and rumors and whatever.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Do something else clear your head. So maybe Lebron took
Rich Paul's abuce.
Speaker 5 (35:56):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Yeah, i'd listen. You know, I'm dee 'ron you. I'm
sure you covereds of Michael Jordan.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
Back in the day.
Speaker 6 (36:04):
I did.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Can I quickly ask you before we go.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
To break who your goat is in the NBA?
Speaker 5 (36:08):
Different eras man, I'm of the different eras argument. I'm sorry,
I just I don't think you can compare great. The
game is so much different, so different, These guys are
so different. Well cop outs, you're trying to Okay, do
you want to compare Michael Jordan to Bill Russell?
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Do that one for me.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Yeah, you're right, Russell was like eighteens in lead. I
think there was a maybe, But good stuff. Rachel Rachel
Nichols with the news.
Speaker 10 (36:32):
Well, that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the
Herd Line News.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Oh boy, I got some Detroit Lions fans. I'm buddies
with them. They're really geeked about the season, and I'm
trying to tell them I think the Super Bowl windows closing.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
I'll tell you why. Next.
Speaker 10 (36:46):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon Eastern a EM Pacific.
Speaker 5 (36:52):
All right, since the moment it was announced, you know,
everyone's had this matchup circle. The arch Manning Era kicks
off with the Playoff, a free match for the ages
number one Texas taking on defending national champion number three
Ohio State on Big Noon.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
Saturday.
Speaker 5 (37:08):
Coverage begins, of course, with Big Nude Kickoff live from
Columbus starts at nine am Eastern Saturday, on Fox.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
I cannot wait for that.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
We'll do a lot of college football leading up to
the opening weekend, so many good games.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
I can't wait.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
However, I quickly wanted to tell a quick story. So
in college, me and my buddies, you know, we were
kind of negative.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
We would make fun of each other a lot. That's
what dudes do.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
You know, you roll up to gather the pregame and
go out and be like, oh, that shirt is so tired,
why didn't you get a haircut? We just make fun
of each other. That's what guys do. And then this
new guy joined our group and he was like, why
are you guys so negative? You need to be way
more positive and hype each other up. So we started
to build each other up. Oh you're so money. I
think it had a lot to do with the Swingers
movie Vince Vaughan, and I want to bring that up
(37:56):
because of the Detroit Lions.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
Dan Campbell took to the todium this week.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
And he is irrationally excited, almost like it's fake pump
up raw raw stuff. Take a listen to Dan Campbell
about his excitement about his roster. Listen.
Speaker 12 (38:15):
Year five, This is the best we felt about it
kind of top to bottom. And now that being said,
there's still holes. But I bring this up all the time.
Every roster has holes and you'll never have it exactly
where you totally want it. But from where we've come
year after year, this is we've taken in another level.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
I like that medium look from Dan Campbell. That's the
money money look Dan. Listen, he's talking a big game.
But folks, so bad news. I think the Super Bowl
windows closed. Remember we've seen teams get close. My jets
with Mark Sanchez, shout out Mark and Rex Ryan.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
Two antsy title games in a row.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Everybody thinks we got something here. No playoff appearances since
you go back to the Jim Kelly Bills, four straight
Super Bowls and they were in the wilderness for twenty
years before Josh Allen showed up. Okay, it is hard,
and this Lions team is going to backslide. They win
at fifteen games. I asked the staff to get the
(39:16):
Lion's schedule on the screen. Are you guys ready for this?
The Detroit Lions have the toughest road schedule in the NFL.
On the road, these are the quarterbacks they have to
face the season. Jordan Love, Lamar Jackson, Joe Burrow, Patrick Mahomes,
Baker Mayfield.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
That's before Halloween.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
They got to go too, Jalen Hurts, they got to
go to Matt Stafford.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
Guys, that is absolutely brutal. And oh, by the.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Way, down two interior offensive lineman one retired and they
let Ziegler go, one of my boys who puts together
a great NFL gambling right up said, those two offensive
linemen that were lost over the last three seasons were
top five at their position.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
It's a huge step back.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
They're starting a third round rookie, likely at center and
then the obviously the position coaches are huge Ben Johnson
and Aaron Glenn.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
Those are massive losses.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
So the new OC Okay, he has not been an
offensive quarter nader since twenty seventeen.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
He was in OC and then didn't go well, hasn't
been in OC again until this year.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Okay, their new defensive coordinator was playing in the league.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
In twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
The highest he got as a coach coach before getting
the defensive coordinator gig was a linebacker coach.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Guys, this is gonna be a big regression.
Speaker 6 (40:35):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
They had fourteen indoor games last year down to ten. Now,
I'm not saying the Lion's totally crumble. There's not a
ton of cold weather games, although they go to Chicago
in the final week of the season, but they do
have to go to Philly and Washington. Could be cold
weather games we'll see likely no October November.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
I just I don't see it.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
A list of the quarterbacks they have to face must
terrify you when you look at the defense. Guys, the
depth chart for that defense is what's going on.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
You remember the movie.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Major League where they would be like every season it
is like, who the bleep are these guys? Look at
that Lion's defense and you're like, she's We're cooked.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
We got to stop these quarterbacks with these guys. Listen,
I had them missing the playoffs and I think the.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Super Bowl windows closed now. Jared gob obviously lives in
my area. I'm rooting for you, Jared, but it's an
uphill climb. Final hour coming up next year.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
On a Monday on the Herd,
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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